Apple to Rule the Digital Home by 2013?

Stony Stevenson writes to tell us that a new study from Forrester Research is taking a crack at what seems to have become a hobby for so many, predicting Apple's market strategy. Specifically, Forrester is predicting that Apple will become the 'hub of the digital home by 2013.' "Forrester predicts that Apple will offer eight key products and services to connect PCs and digital content to the TV-stereo infrastructure in consumers' homes. A 're-engineered' Apple Store will expand into in-home installation services to deliver what Forrester describes as a 'fully integrated digital experience.'"

Comments

Quick summary:

[kaos07]

Maybe I'm just hungover but to me the article seems to be nothing but: "Blah blah blah Apple. Blah blah Apple Blah Apple Blah."

Re:Quick summary:

[ColdWetDog]

No, it's more like Blah Blah Blah Apple. Digital. Blah Blah Blah. Apple. Shiny. Blah Blah Blah. Apple. TV.

Much more in depth than you made it out to be.

Re:Quick summary:

[mrbluze]

"Blah blah blah Apple. Blah blah Apple Blah Apple Blah."

Yeah, it's total crap. Not every home even has a drier, or a microwave oven (surprise surprise) or even a TV. Heaps of people don't own anything more than a small radio and cheap TV.

Apple is not going to rule the home because it cannot produce products that everybody can afford.

Re:Quick summary:

[Leftist Troll]

One thing PC users can do that Mac users can't

Re:Quick summary:

[CAIMLAS]

Who cares about everybody? Apple only cares about people with money. Preferably, those who are easily parted from it.

Remember those ads from the 1950s promising the easy life if you only buy their special new product, firmly targeting the (at the time) new middle class? That's Apple, today.

Re:Quick summary:

[phantomfive]

Honestly, it's not even a new idea. Not worth writing about. I read an article (in Newsweek) back in the late 90s, shortly after Jobs came back to Apple, and Jobs himself outlined this exact same strategy: to become the center of the living room. It's not even a unique strategy. Microsoft has been trying the exact same thing, which is why they are willing to take such a huge loss on x-box. It's a market that may not even exist, and yet if it does the payout is so huge that many players are willing to spend a lot of money to try to get in there.

If you ask me, so far Nintendo's been the most successful.

Re:Quick summary:

[Nossie]

is that not what they said about the ipod/iphone though? Apple never invented digital music... but they seem to have picked it up and ran away with it.

Re:Quick summary:

[Hal_Porter]

Maybe I'm just hungover but to me the article seems to be nothing but: "Blah blah blah Apple. Blah blah Apple Blah Apple Blah." Hmm, why not watch some Don Hertzfeldt instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T0UQfKTcQw

You can have the buh buh buh without the Apple Apple Apple.

Re:Quick summary:

[Hal_Porter]

Who cares about everybody? Apple only cares about people with money. Preferably, those who are easily parted from it.

Remember those ads from the 1950s promising the easy life if you only buy their special new product, firmly targeting the (at the time) new middle class? That's Apple, today. No! Steve Jobs fucking died to save us all!

Re:Quick summary:

[weicco]

In the end it doesn't really matter what technical devices I have in the house 2013. My wife still rules the remote control with an iron grip.

Re:Quick summary:

[DuncanE]

Hmmmm I agree that many people only have a small radio and cheap TV and a phone of some kind, but what if you replaced the small radio and phone with iphone connected to a cheap TV.

All content (tv episodes, movies rentals, music of course) would be purchased from the iphone and played on the TV.

Re:Quick summary:

[eclectic4]

"Not every home even has a drier, or a microwave oven (surprise surprise) or even a TV. Heaps of people don't own anything more than a small radio and cheap TV. Apple is not going to rule the home because it cannot produce products that everybody can afford."

Apple is going to rule the Digital Home. Read the article and the title of this /. article again.

Besides, the people that live without a microwave or a TV aren't even close to Apple's target customer. In fact, those people wouldn't be near many company's target customer. Apple does not produce products that "everybody" can afford. Neither do most companies.

I think you may be a tad confused... or are just someone that has a very limited income that really wants a Mac. Either way, welcome to the real world! It's nice to have you...

Re:Quick summary:

[PopeRatzo]

Apple only cares about people with money.

And remember, at least here in the US, there are fewer and fewer of those as a percentage of the whole population.

And the money we have is shrinking as I type this.

Did you know, by the way, that the government's figures for inflation do not include the cost of energy or food?

Here's a bet: Within 2 years there will be a "new Apple" who succeeds by using Apple's original vision.

Re:Quick summary:

[Dogtanian]

Apple is going to rule the Digital Home. Read the article and the title of this /. article again. You seem pretty sure of yourself, so what exactly constitutes what is and isn't a "digital" home? The article doesn't really pin that down.

By the standards of 25- or even arguably 10 years ago- most present-day homes are fairly "digital" and high-tech. Inevitably, those with money to splash out would have got their fancy toys first, biasing the market in the short term, but in the medium to long term the average home *has* become a digital home. Even if we raise the bar (cliche alert) for this future "digital" home, the same thing's going to happen. So....

Besides, the people that live without a microwave or a TV aren't even close to Apple's target customer. In fact, those people wouldn't be near many company's target customer. Apple does not produce products that "everybody" can afford. Neither do most companies. So what? We're talking about the "digital" home (whatever that is), not one specifically populated by Apple's "target customers"- unless you're defining them to be the same thing (which borders on a "no true Scotsman" style argument).

I think you may be a tad confused... or are just someone that has a very limited income that really wants a Mac. Either way, welcome to the real world! It's nice to have you... Smacks of an ad hominem attack against the GP to me.

Re:Quick summary:

[PopeRatzo]

'hub of the digital home by 2013'.

That's an interesting date, 2013. It's also the date by which John McCain promises to get us out of Viet.. I mean "Iraq".

It's far enough away that nobody will hold you accountable if your forecast is completely full of shit.

I wonder how big a stock position in Apple the authors of this article are holding?

Re:Quick summary:

[Anonymous Coward]

MSFT no longer takes a loss on Xbox.

Re:Quick summary:

[leicaman]

This NOT new idea that people keep alluding to but never get to actually calling it was it was at first is the "digital hub." Steve Jobs introduced it at MacWorld quite a few years ago. Probably the 2002 MacWorld if I remember correctly. That was right after the introduction of the iPod. I remember it clearly not because of what Jobs said, but because Bill Gates pretended to introduce, the very next at CES, the concept of... yep, you guessed it... the "digital hub." Like everyone in the room had no idea Steve Jobs talked it up exactly one week before that. I laughed pretty hard at that one. Of course, a few months later, Paul Thurrott (or was it Rob Enderle?) tried to pretend like Steve Jobs copied Gates. Typical MS astroturfers. But as for Forrester, the author really shows how clueless they are. Alarm clocks? Like that hasn't already been done to death in iPod accessories by ever unimaginative gadget-maker out there? Shoot, I had the same alarm clock I bought my first day of grad school in 2004. They just don't turn over enough to justify the Apple treatment. Now some kind of wireless infrastructure from alarm clocks, to garage door openers, to starting coffee in the morning and watering the lawn, waking the kids, and topping off the charge to the electric car - and plays each person's choice of music and starts the shower at the right temperature, then puts an order in at the Danish Bakery for some almond bear claws - now that would be something Apple might be able to innovate so that it's easy to do from your iPhone. But did this dope at Forrester say that? Nope.

Re:Quick summary:

[Anonymous Coward]

2013 isn't 100 years!

Re:Quick summary:

[Gary_Malhotra]

i got the same thing, although, i don't doubt its validity. - Gary Malhotra

Re:Quick summary:

[noe_valley_sailor]

Test

Re:Quick summary:

[Anonymous Coward]

You know what? Fuck Apple. Fuck the living room. And fuck Forrester Research. Where's my flying car?

Also, more awesome predictions from PopMech

Re:Quick summary:

[wealthychef]

What a sad commentary on our day that the ultimate use of technology is the most sophisticated way to make funny pictures appear on our wall. What if all this time and money went into curing cancer? What if all the couch potatoes in the world got off their butts and worked building houses for the homeless? What if cow farts were harnessed to power a nuclear reactor?

Re:Quick summary:

[Gilmoure]

I just got two universal remotes and set one up with wife and then set up mine. 'Course, now our kid is starting to get into av equipment. May be time for a third one.

Re:Quick summary:

[Gilmoure]

Microsoft manufactures computers? Wah? Oh, this was written by an 'Analyst'. Looks like they forgot to put the anal in there.

Yeah

[willyhill]

The massive success of Apple TV sure put them on the right track.

Re:Yeah

[Kryptonian Jor-El]

Until iTunes can be used as a media player AND a bittorrent client, I don't think it'll happen (at least not for me)

Hell, think of the marketing! "You have two options of getting your media; via iTMS, or for free via BitTorrent" I'd buy that shit in a heartbeat

Re:Yeah

[voice_of_all_reason]

"House corrupted. Please set fire to it and use itunes to restore."

Re:Yeah

[willyhill]

I don't know why I got modded as funny, I wasn't going for the humour there. I had great hopes for Apple TV, because for once the same company would be doing both the hardware and the software in a single, well-supported and integrated package. And yeah, imagine if you could torrent free and licensed content off to the set top box.

I'm not sure why people seem to think it's taboo to talk about how Apple TV didn't make the cut. So not all their products are going to be perfect - big deal. The road to success is not always paved with the detritus of your earlier home runs. Sometimes you have to work harder.

I'm not sure if the premise of the article is valid, but I do believe that if someone can make the media center revolution happen, it's Apple.

Re:Yeah

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I just saw it as a blog post with a bunch of buzz words.

I don't see where it is taboo to say AppleTV isn't up to par. I think it's a fine example to keep to show that Apple doesn't always make a hit the first time around. I'd like to see some better competition, the secrets to Apple's successes aren't secret, most of the information is out there, but maybe it's constantly misinterpreted or poorly adapted to an incompatible culture or management style.

I really don't want one company to have all the keys to the "complete digital home". As it is, Apple has a habit of not fixing annoying bugs in existing products, they'll just fix it in the next revision of the product, which adds different bugs. It's kind of irritating.

And I really doubt that any company, even Apple, would really want to or be able to serve up paid media and install BT to link into illegal distribution of copyrighted materials onto their box like that, and there's a few reasons for that.

Re:Yeah

[Ilyon]

You can laugh now, but a slow introduction of an Apple product does not guarantee eventual failure.

Estimates indicate 1-1.5 million Apple TVs were sold in their first year on the market.

In comparison, the iPod sold 376,000 units in their first year on the market. We're not laughing at iPod now, are we?

Re:Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

AppleTV is selling a whole lot better since the 2.0 upgrade, there is a much greater level of interest from the public on the product and a lot less "selling" required to get them in homes.

There's still some level of confusion from people who thinks that it is a Tivo type of device, but the AppleTV is at a point now that it should have been at launch.

-- Cupertino Fruit Company Insider posting anonymously

Re:Yeah

[drsquare]

Yeah and look at 70s Disco music sales. If this trend continues...

Re:Yeah

[PopeRatzo]

if someone can make the media center revolution happen, it's Apple.

See, the thing about successful revolutions is that they are normally inclusive of the classes that are less than richest and most powerful. Sometimes, they even include the masses.

Now, do you think Apple represents the masses? Do the richest and most powerful among us really need a revolution on their behalf?

Re:Yeah

[Arkham]

The first rendition of Apple TV left a lot of people scratching their heads. What was it good for? I sure didn't know.

But the "Take 2" version, especially with the price cut and the hacks to enable a web browser, weather, news feeds, etc, make it a pretty compelling box.

I bought one at the new lower price, and I am getting a lot of use from it. Even my wife thinks it's cool, and as non-technical as she is, the TiVo was the last thing I bought that got such a positive reaction, so I think Apple TV has a bright future.

Re:Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Store employee detected, sound sirens

No they won't

[awitod]

It'll be either one of the console vendors Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony (Probably Microsoft if they can get their heads out their asses on the matter of DRM. The XBox 360/Windows Media stuff works pretty well already and is simple to set up) or a set-top box vendor (again if they can come up with a DRM strategy).

Apple doesn't make anything that hooks to a TV that has any critical mass.

Re:No they won't

[truthsearch]

It'll be either one of the console vendors Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony If Sony was capable they could have easily done it by now. They've been selling all of the components, mostly successfully, for many years. They don't seem interested in integration.

Nintendo doesn't seem interested in providing the full experience, either. They focus heavily on each individual product.

Microsoft definitely has the strongest ambition. But they do often shoot themselves in the foot.

Re:No they won't

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple doesn't make anything that hooks to a TV that has any critical mass. 'cept the iPod video, though I don't know how often it is used in this fashion.

That being said, the idea of Apple 'ruling' the digital home is scary to me... I would like to have some control please, and I don't see Apple giving it to anybody.

Re:No they won't

[interstellar_donkey]

I was thinking the same thing. The way the 360 integrates with an internal computer network to deliver high quality video and audio is pretty darn slick.

Other than perhaps a less clunky interface, I can't imagine how Apple could trump that.

Re:No they won't

[laffer1]

The problem I see is that sony and apple will charge too much to get a large install base. Some people are willing to buy PS3s either for gaming or blue ray. In order to rule the home, they have to be in most homes. I just don't see anything at $500 doing that. Two years ago, one could predict Microsoft or Nintendo doing this. At the moment, most people are still dealing with sticker shock for gas prices. Now if someone delivers on HD cheaply and with downloads, perhaps. I have an Apple TV, and I don't think it's ready for critical mass.

Re:No they won't

[Telvin_3d]

Well, the one thing Apple consistently does well is taking the little things that everyone else is doing, bringing them all together and making it work. It's rare that they are the first ones with an idea. It's common that they are the first ones to make an idea workable. Now, they may or may not do it, but if in a few years they are repeating the iPor/iPhone success in a household setting and all the critics are saying 'they are not doing anything new, why does this version seem to click for everyone' I wouldn't be too surprised.

Re:No they won't

[lucas teh geek]

I was thinking the same thing. The way the 360 integrates with an internal Windows network to deliver high quality video and audio is pretty darn slick.

I fixed that for you. Microsoft's failure to allow the 360 to stream over widely supported protocols is pathetic. you can't even use SMB, which they developed themselves. even using the one windows pc in the house with WMP11 I've had endless troubles with getting the 360 to see the damn pc. uPNP seems pretty half baked if you ask me.

maybe I've had my expectations set too high after using xbox media centre for so long, but after being able to watch pretty much any video format over nearly any protocol the 360's media "integration" just seems like a polished turd

Re:No they won't

[ady1]

I don't remember microsoft's foot ever getting injured though... Crappy aim can be useful :p

Re:No they won't

[ady1]

What makes you think that a company which couldn't capitalize on The Internet (which, I must add, was their particular playground) will be any more successful in integrating products which it doesn't even make aka TV, Stereo etc?

Re:No they won't

[Anonymous Coward]

You really need to see the Xbox 360 then. Aside from the failure rates, it's basically done. I've hooked it up as a media center extender, and yeah, with DVD ripping and a home media server, combined with Live which already sells/rents movies (in HD) at rates comperable to Comcast, and certainly comparable to the local video store it's perfect.

Of the 100 people on my friends list, 30 of whom might be on at any given time, often a few are watching video's, or listening to music, or connecting to windows media center and aren't just waiting for a game. What's missing? maybe 10 TB of personal storage and some form of neigh indestructable media. I downloaded the free epsode of voltron, anjoyed the gratis rental of austin powers I from McDonalds. What has Apple bought me?

Re:No they won't

[geekoid]

Nintendo know how to keep things simple and too the point. MS will try to shove it down your throat and tell you what movies you are ALLOWED to watch; PS3 will tell you how you ARE going to use it and that it IS the best GODDAMN thing ever. The Wii will just meekly do what you want in an entertaining way.

Yes, I know it will be a different version of the Wii to support HDMI and 1080p. I think all of them will need at else t ONE more version change before it has the chance, including Apple.

Of course, there all looking at each others product, so any one of them may change for the good, or bad.

That said, Steve Jobs is a master at using the wedge to get shit into a market. the iPod being the obvious example.

Re:No they won't

[Anonymous Coward]

The PS3 works just as good with the Windows Media Server. Quick and painless to setup.

Re:No they won't

[Anonymous Coward]

What is funny is that the 360 actually works easier and better with a mac with Connect360. I've set up both.

Re:No they won't

[Anonymous Coward]

> "Now, they may or may not do it, but if in a few years they are repeating the iPor/iPhone success in a household setting [...]

The iPorn (there, fixed that for ya) is actually scheduled for a November 2008 rollout [he, he], so it's a bit [hurr] premature to be [snort] gushing abut it.

Sorry, couldn't help mself there [He, he, he said: "couldn't help myself!"]

Re:No they won't

[Benjamin T Miller]

Have you tried using uShare? I compiled and installed it on my Gentoo box in less than five minutes, wrote a small init script, and can now access all of my movies and music on the Xbox 360 in my living room.

I previously had a large HTPC running MythTV as a media extender. Needless to say, it was loud, hot, and never worked well, due to MythTV's awful interface. After I discovered I could use the 360 for the same task, I was able to free up a bunch of space in my TV cabinet.

Re:No they won't

[assassinator42]

Agreed, it's nowhere near as nice as XMBC. I've been using TVersity to stream media to my Xbox 360, but now it just won't connect most of the time. I've switched to using WMP11 for streaming as it actually works. Downside is I lose the automatic transcoding of unsupported media types as well as the ability to listen to shoutcast streams.
Does anyone know of a good free alternative to TVersity that actually works with the 360? Preferably cross-platform and open source?

Re:No they won't

[lucas teh geek]

Cheers, I'll take a look because I would really like a way to stream high def content that the original xbox just cant decode fast enough. but for regular downloaded videos xbmc still wins because of it's library mode. it'll scan your shares for tvshow.s01e08.avi, then scrape one of the only tv database to get episode names, synopsis (or movie details for movies) and thumbnails for folders, and even track what you have and havent watched yet.

Re:No they won't

[Abreu]

Sony missed the boat when the first harddisk based MP3 players hit the market... Sony-the-electronics-giant had a prototype Walkman that was basically an iPod, but Sony-the-music-label blackballed the proposal, and only relented when the iPod was already a huge success. And even then, they insisted on the ackward "check-in, check-out" system that plagues Sony music players to this day.

I think the story of "how the heck did the company who invented the Walkman dropped the ball on the personal music player" will remain in history as one of the top management blunders, along with the New Coke and the Edsel

I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloards

[schwep]

Because nobody would ever need more than 1 button on a mouse, nobody would ever need more than 1 button on a TV remote.

Uh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Stony Stevenson?

Agreed.

[Narcocide]

Perhaps it's wishful thinking but I honestly suspect that Nintendo is the one that will pull it off, and largely because they tend to fly under Sony and Microsoft's radar.

Re:Agreed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I highly doubt that Nintendo is not being carefully watched by both Sony and M$.

Re:Agreed.

[DAldredge]

Perhaps - but the Nintendo version will only work at NTSC resolutions and most of the advertisements for the product will avoid showing details of the actual product instead using cheap camera tricks to distract the viewer. But I could be wrong.

Itunes makes windows unstable

[Anonymous Coward]

This just in "Itunes makes windows unstable so the mac os looks stable for your Ipod" they do have a lot to gain by doing so.

Not so sure.

[FriedEggs]

I think people will learn to diversify the electronics in their houses and where they come from. In other words, I just don't see any single company monopolizing on all home electronics. If that happens, shame on us. This concept reminds me of the mindless mass consumption of Brawndo in the movie "Idiocracy". "It's got electrolytes! It's got what plants crave!"

Re:Not so sure.

[interstellar_donkey]

True, and that fact has the potential for being Apple's downfall in the area. Apple products are great, but they seem to have a difficult time playing with anything that's a non-Apple product.

A consumer that has a TV that's brand A and a stereo receiver that's brand B, and neither one of them work with Apple's latest "digital media center" (or don't work very well) aren't going to run out and buy an Apple TV or receiver, especially when there are other products that will work with his or her existing equipment.

PS3 or Wii

[Ngarrang]

My money is on the PS3 or Wii.

For the PS3, Sony has been helpful in getting Linux to run on it. The most important factor is the blu-ray capability. I know a lot of people who bought a PS3 just for the blu-ray. They own no games 'cept what came in the box.

The Wii is an exceptional game machine. Nintendo hit their target right on and that fact that the Wii is outselling the PS3 and Xbox combined speaks volumes. If the Wii offered up blu-ray, it would dominate even more.

Re:PS3 or Wii

[pddo]

Although Sony did "help" by getting linux running on it (do you really think it wasn't going to happen given enough time?) they have officially blocked all the cool OpenGL parts of the system apart from the PS3 OS. This means MythTV or anything media-ish that runs on linux will either look like poo on the PS3 or won't work at all. I'm still yet to see anything proprietary that works as well as the XBMC...

Game console?

[Tubal-Cain]

Maybe they can get back into the console market while they're at it. Yes, the Pippin was a failure, but then so was the iPhone's predecessor the Rokr.

Forrester cracks me up...

[voidstin]

How they get people to pay thousands of dollars for this "research" is amazing. Can anyone ever remember someone saying "Damn! Forrester totally called it!"

The 4 new products they predict are:

* AppleSound universal music controller
what, for the times when you are out of earshot of itunes, ipod or apple tv? or so you can sync them? I don't see the market here.

* Network-enabled gadgets
like a chumby? or an ambient orb?

* In-home installation services
apple geek squad? Ok, this may be true, but really... yawn...

* Apple home server product
This is the only one that MAY be interesting, but that's probably just because they don't say much about it. isn't this what the mini is? or mini+drobo?

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[Agent__Smith]

LOL

WOW they totally nailed that.. and so specific too...

Must be a slow news day...

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[Sycraft-fu]

Well there may be a market for a universal controller, the problem is that they've been beaten to it. The best example would be the Logitech Harmony remotes. These things control, well, everything. You log on to the website and tell it what gear you have and how it's connected, it sends you the data to program your remote to control it (remotes hook up via USB). Gone are the days of digging through code books, you just tell it what you got, and it does the rest.

So it isn't as though Apple can just waltz in to this arena and amaze people, the products already exist, and they are already easy to use. It also already works with Apple stuff. Put an iPod in your Yamaha receiver (many have iPod docks) and the receiver will control it remotely, and the Harmony will control the receiver.

Sounds to me like this guy is an Apple fan who hasn't really done his homework about what is actually out there, or done any real business analysis of if a market would be good for Apple to get in to. As you noted for home installation services, that's a big yawn. To the extent people buy that, they are going to buy it from the retailer they get the hard drives from, like bigscreen TVs. This isn't the sort of thing someone is going to think "Man, I'd better call Apple and have them pick up my TV from Best Buy and install it." It's hard to sell "cool" in the mark of in home installations and it takes only a minor look at Apple's business to realise that selling cool is what they do. The iPod wasn't the first MP3 player, it wasn't the cheapest, etc. What it was is the one that made MP3 players cool to have, that made them a fashion accessory.

I really wish Slashdot wouldn't post fanboy crap like this. Just because it doesn't come from a blog, doesn't mean it isn't just a fanboy drooling over what they think would be cool. There seems to be no business case for any of this, just wild speculation.

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[Anonymous Coward]

Real Mac people buy XServes and use those for their Apple home servers. ;)

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[falconwolf]

Sounds to me like this guy is an Apple fan who hasn't really done his homework about what is actually out there, or done any real business analysis of if a market would be good for Apple to get in to.

While these systems, like X10, and services already exist Apple has a record of moving into something and putting pieces together with a polished UI and selling it, such as the iPod and iPhone. What Apple doesn't have is a record of going into homes however they can put a system together to control home automation and multi-media home entertainment systems. A systems installer can then install the equipment Apple supplied.

Falcon

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[dangitman]

The best example would be the Logitech Harmony remotes. These things control, well, everything.

What? They control my devices that connect via Bluetooth, with an infrared transmitter? They control my ethernet-connected devices with the same IR remote? That is pretty amazing, but somehow I don't think it's true.

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[stang]

Well there may be a market for a universal controller, the problem is that they've been beaten to it. The best example would be the Logitech Harmony remotes. These things control, well, everything. You log on to the website and tell it what gear you have and how it's connected, it sends you the data to program your remote to control it (remotes hook up via USB). Gone are the days of digging through code books, you just tell it what you got, and it does the rest.

Do you have one? I do. Heres the thing. Its definitely better than digging though the code books, but the interface *sucks*. The client application is just as crappy as the web version (well, okay, its the same thing as the web version).

Everybody gets to put their own codes up. This means that my TV has 15 pages of commands listed. Some are duplicates, some dont apply (even though Ive entered my specific model number), and none of them are in any semblance of order. Its like this for all of my devices.

Logitech can build good hardware, they just (like most hardware companies), cant build software worth a damn. Fortunately, something like a mouse doesnt need much other than a driver. But the Harmony remotes *do*, and believe me, theres plenty of opportunity for someone to swoop in with a better solution.

I still think TFA is full of shit.

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[Anonymous Coward]

* In-home installation services

I seriously doubt Apple would ever do this, part of their shtick is that their products are so simple to set up and use that you don't need extra help.

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[toddestan]

So it isn't as though Apple can just waltz in to this arena and amaze people, the products already exist, and they are already easy to use. It also already works with Apple stuff. Put an iPod in your Yamaha receiver (many have iPod docks) and the receiver will control it remotely, and the Harmony will control the receiver.

The thing is, people don't know about these remotes. Sure, the people who drop $5000 on a stereo system do, but not the Joe Users out there. All that Apple would have to do is throw something together that works reasonably well, then market the hell out of it which they are really good at. I'm pretty sure the Joe Users out there would consider buying it, as maney of them already are juggling 3 remotes for even a modest set up (Cable/Satellite box, DVD player, TV). Apple could really rake in the cash, if Logitech etc. don't figure that there's a market out there for a stripped, inexpensive down version of their fancy remotes first.

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[kidgenius]

Oh, they have, and there are versions of the remote at a bunch of price points, but what the real problem is, is that Logitech doesn't advertise/market it really. See, their low-end ($99) stuff is on the same shelves next to the RCA and GE universal remotes, except those only cost $20, and all three come in the clamshell packaging. A customer in the store wouldn't understand why they should shell out for this "expensive" remote. So, they know there's a market, but they don't market it properly. Which, makes me think that Logitech's heart isn't really in it. They look at themselves as just a peripheral manufacturer. When was the last time you saw an ad for a Logitech product in anything other than a computer/game magazine? So I guess, I agree with pretty much everything you've said except for the stripped down cheap version.

Re:Forrester cracks me up...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately, something like a mouse doesnt need much other than a driver.

Not that mouse drivers don't have fuckup potential. C.f. Logitech's OS X Leopard fiasco.

Smart move

[eggman9713]

It seems to me that the same people who really want that fully integrated home theatre experience are not necessarily the same people who know how to set up and purchase the componenets for said system. Apple having a one stop shop for home theatre purchase and installation, as well as having the avenue to deliver content to these systems would be very successful in the typical consumer home theatre market. Consumers like integrated, seamless, and easy. Power users like us like full control and customization. This wouldn't necessarily be for us, but if it were a decent system at the right price, I would fork over some of my customization control.

Re:Smart move

[Charcharodon]

It seems to me that the same people who really want that fully integrated home theatre experience are not necessarily the same people who know how to set up and purchase the componenets for said system.

Every home theater nut that I've ever met either was motivated enough to learn how to do it themselves, knew someone who could show them how to do it, or had enough money to pay someone else to set it up for them.

I honnest doubt it'll be any of the big three, Apple, MS, or SONY, because they spend too much of their time on trying to set up something that gives them all the benefits that they forget that the whole point is that its supposed to benefit the consumer.

Re:Smart move

[Hal_Porter]

if it were a decent system at the right price, I would fork over some of my customization control. Those who fork over customisation control to get a decent system at the right price deserve neither customisation control nor a decent system at the right price.
Ben Franklin

Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[dindi]

If apple gave a little innovation into a gaming system and an audio system, that was half as innovative as an iPhone, half as quiet as a Mac mini, half as sexy as as any other Apple product, I bet they would.

Now the bad : apple has no history of creating amplifiers, TVs , or game systems. Still, looking at the success of the iPhone and their laptops, I would not be surprised if they just came out with a Sony/Nintendo/MS Xbox killer multi function device.

Hey APPLE, please do not make it dependent on damn ITUNES.

Am I an apple zealot?
Oh well .... I was a nokia user for the last 10+ years, and I was using Linux (on the desktop too) since it literally came out (94).

Now I replaced all my home computers with Apple computers, and after kicking myself for buying a $500 dollar nokia, I just got an iphone to get rid of that piece of shit E65 after promising everyone, that it was my last ever nokia.

Yep, maybe I am becoming an Apple zealot, but every buck I earn I make on apple computers and phones, and I am doing it with a lot less porblems then what I had with linux or Windows ....

If I can get a gaming/video experience like this: bring it on. No crappy online environment, no kiddie only games and no red ring of death.

JUST NO ITUNES PLEASE..... ....

Anyway .... just my 3 cents ...

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[pizzach]

Now the bad : apple has no history of creating amplifiers, TVs , or game systems. Still, looking at the success of the iPhone and their laptops, I would not be surprised if they just came out with a Sony/Nintendo/MS Xbox killer multi function device.

My mind isn't working 100% right now from lack of caffeine, so I'm just going to give you the link for interesting reading to Apple's one and only game system, the Pippin.

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sucess with Iphone and laptops? No offense, but those products are the exception not the rule. I goto a university in Philadelphia and while sure some people have macbooks and iphones, its not many at all. Not as much some people would like you to believe. Not everyone falls for that apple marketing crap( stupid operating system commercials and coldplay music color junk)

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[geekoid]

"apple has no history of creating amplifiers,"
the ampliefier is done. There really is no difficulty here. There well understood and everyone with 1 year of electronic interest knows how to make them. The only question is quality, and I'll give Apple that one. They have continued to improve and learn.

"TVs"
Apple doesn't need to create TVs, they just need HDMI. I would be surprised to see Apple try to compete with all the new 1080 stuff. It seem to me that the market for that has all the entries it needs.

ANd if they did, they would rebrand someone else's.

"game systems."
ah, thats an expensive one. I wonder if they would just partner?

  Yes, of course it will use iTunes; which is fine by me, I like it.

FTR: I own an iPod, and iPod mini(both gifts) and I bought a Apple IIc hen they were new..paid about 2K for it in 1983.. sigh.

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[Anonymous Coward]

hmm... Wondering what major. I am in OSx for having unix and a functional desktop. Perfect for programming. If at your uni only the people buy macs who prefer colorful crap... They must be colour blind. On the serious side: what product are the majority if the laptops and iphone are the exception? Ipod's? Then again I am happy with apple stuff because I get quality, I am pissed at most other firms at the time. But then again I prefer my 95 bmw over any us or Japanese brand, so shiny and new is not the driving force behind my decisions. How long would it take to type this on my nokia....

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[nguy]

Hey APPLE, please do not make it dependent on damn ITUNES.

That's where they make their money. And making money by locking in users matters to Apple just as much as to Microsoft.

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[falconwolf]

Apple doesn't need to create TVs, they just need HDMI.

Apple TV does HDMI and is compatible with many TV resolutions.

Falcon

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[dindi]

We agree. However on the TVs I might have a different opinion.

At work I am using an APPLE Cinema 24 inch monitor, which happens to be really OLD, and which happens to be full 1080p.

Even though I can see some burn-in (not permanent, but temporary), this monitor is still one of the best I have ever used.

Would I buy an apple TV? Probably not, because I do not watch TV at all (OK, I have an eyetv, and sometimes I watch some discovery channel).

Would I buy an apple projector, if it was NOT shaped like an ugly box, and if it wasn't as LOUD as my Epson projector or my MS Xbox? Maybe...

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[dindi]

Agreed. However, I am not saying they should remove iTunes. It has its nice features.

I just do not want this stupidity what I have with my iPhone.

Let me explain. I own 3 apple computers at home (2 minis and a macbook), I have a G5 at work.
Now I own this beautiful $500 16G Iphone, which I love.

Why did I get the 16 gig? So I have it all the time with me, and so I sync it here and there, I have my appointments, calendar, and MUSIC at both places.

THIS IPHONE CAN BE ONLY SYNCED TO ONE LIBRARY.

OK, so do I want to sync the music? Would be nice, but hey.... Still it is a bit extreme, that I cannot connect it to any apple (all which I paid $$$ for) and play my music from my ipod/iphone.

Then again, as you see, I like apple, I love their products, but itunes always make me feel limited.

It syncs my contacts, my bookmarks and so, so let me play my music from it.

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[dindi]

Wow. Interesting.

I obviously did not know, because at the time I lived in eastern Europe, where gaming was strictly pirating a game on PCs, and consoles were science fiction.

It in fact took me 4 years to convince myself to buy a console and start buying games after moving into the "americas" part of the world.
Probably switching to a programming job also made me respect intellectual property a bit more.. well at least programs, I do not particularly feel sorry for the recording industry, or feel their pain under the burden of piracy.

Re:Not with apple TV, but maybe...

[pizzach]

Actually most people didn't know. The only place where they actually sold any units worth anything was Japan.

I do believe if Apple tried at a console again, there in a large chance it would be kick-ass like you said earlier. A lot has changed since the Pippin came out. I think one of the largest factors would be Steve now at the helm.

Re:Once you go Mac...

[Tubal-Cain]

So that's why Windows moved to PPC. ... Oh, wait... [/joke]

Apple is as Apple Does

[SoupIsGood Food]

Now know this, you newly minted Mac users - if you use Apple equipment for any length of time, you wind up with the same hobby: predicting Apple's market strategy.

It's fun and easy to do, and you soon learn that you can do just as good a job as Forrester or Gartner or Cringley, and do a lot better than Metcalf, Michael Dell or Dvorak (not the keyboard layout, as even a keyboard layout can provide better market analysis than that guy).

Bold predictions! You can make bold predictions -

"Steve Jobs will buy Adobe!"
"Steve Wozniak will mary a famous comedienne!"
"iPhone will be the first earth technology bough by alien visitors as it's superior to their own!"
"Apple will shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders!"

- Ok, I admit that it's unlikely Woz will marry a famous comedienne, but other than that, as long as it's outlandish and over-the-top, there's a one-in-a-million chance it might come true, and as Terry Pratchett readers, we know one-in-a-million chances crop up nine times out of ten.

Articles like this are just the encouragement newly fledged Apple pundits need to start rolling their own... and it's a small step from speculation to rumor-mongering! That's where the action's really at.

(And, you didn't hear it from me, but the next rev of iTunes will knock your socks clean off, employing bayesian fuzzy-logic heuristic inference engines to predict with 89% accuracy what you want to hear before you hear it, or so I heard from a little bird who's working on "Project BHA-II")

Re:Apple is as Apple Does

[Anonymous Coward]

Bold predictions! You can make bold predictions

Sir, I think you may need these - [b] [/b].

Re:Apple is as Apple Does

[FudRucker]

The Woz might be a candidate for a husband for maybe Rosanne Barr if she ever becomes available :^)

Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[sunspot42]

According to that Forrester article:

The eight essential pillars on which Apple will deliver this platform, based on four existing offerings and four new product concepts, are expected to be:

* Apple Macintosh home PC
* Apple TV digital media extender
* Apple Store
* iTunes and its successors
* Apple home server product
* AppleSound universal music controller
* Network-enabled gadgets
* In-home installation services

I think those all of those miss the biggest weapon in Apple's arsenal, and one of them isn't even going to be a factor anymore by 2013 - not as we've come to know it. The PC - including the Mac - is a dying form factor for all but high-end professional use (think workstations). Gamers are migrating to dedicated gaming machines (Apple may well release one themselves), while what we've traditionally used PC's for - web surfing, e-mail, word processing - can now be successfully handled by cell phones. Create a docking station for the iPhone that allows it to use a full-sized keyboard, mouse and monitor while you're at home - or a portable docking solution that allows it to function as a laptop - and a good 90% of all "PC" users won't need a PC anymore. They'll simply use their phone (which really isn't a phone, it's a tiny PC with phone features and a customized interface).

With advances in wireless technology you'll also be able to connect that iPhone to your home's NAS, to your stereo and to your television to share and display content. Apple's big advantage here is user interface design, plus its existing DRM-enabled relationship with major content providers. They've also proven they can market new concepts and new technologies to consumers in a way HP and Microsoft just can't (terd brown Zune, anybody?).

And of course the iPhone can be used as a portable music and video player as well. The next-gen iPhone may well sport 30GB of flash, and by 2013 could be toting 300GB. That's certainly enough on-the-go storage for most users, and with high-speed wireless networks becoming common if it's not enough space, you could always connect to the home NAS and synchronize with it to pull down additional content on-demand (or buy it directly at Apple's online store).

I could see Apple getting into the GeekSquad business as Forrester suggests, for installing and configuring their own hardware. They might even release their own line of displays, amps, speakers and such, although to date they've been pretty content at letting others provide iPod accessories. That might change though as they become more dominant in the consumer electronics space.

Their other big play between now an 2013 could be videogames. There's no reason why Apple can't release its own Xbox - I'm sure Intel would be happy to lend them a lot of engineering help in order to establish a presence in that market. Make the device function with iPhones and serve as a media hub, sell it for $300 or less and watch as it erodes the market for more expensive gaming devices from its rivals. The iPhone is already poised to become a successful portable gaming device in its own right.

Apple could also use their position to smash the high-priced game model that's dominated the market for the past two decades. Keep the price of games to $19.95 and win share away from more expensive rivals, who have been using their cut of game revenue to fund console development. Even if they aren't a huge success as a gaming platform, it won't cost them much to enter the space this way. And they could end up doing to Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft what Commodore did to Atari and Coleco back in the early '80s, when the C64 ate the consoles' lunch. Back then consumers were more than willing to abandon single-function gaming devices for a multi-function device that

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[Anonymous Coward]

apple winning customers by being cheap? thats never gonna happen

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[lakeland]

That was a really good idea about the iphone.

After all, it already syncs with bluetooth devices, so why not a keyboard and a mouse? A cable that provide HDMI and we're there.

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[CAIMLAS]

Their other big play between now an 2013 could be videogames. There's no reason why Apple can't release its own Xbox - I'm sure Intel would be happy to lend them a lot of engineering help in order to establish a presence in that market. Make the device function with iPhones and serve as a media hub, sell it for $300 or less and watch as it erodes the market for more expensive gaming devices from its rivals. The iPhone is already poised to become a successful portable gaming device in its own right.

Apple could also use their position to smash the high-priced game model that's dominated the market for the past two decades. Keep the price of games to $19.95 and win share away from more expensive rivals, who have been using their cut of game revenue to fund console development. ... you're kind of out in left field, there. Come back in a bit, we can see the players a bit better from here.

Since when has Apple - or anything to accessorize their products, such as the myriad of shareware 'solutions' which provide only the basest features - been 'cheap'? I saw software for OS X the other day which cost over $30, and all the software did was take screen/snapshots of the screen in a vaguely novel fashion. And that isn't the norm, from what I can tell.

No, if Apple were to produce a game system, it would cost 20%+ more than the competition, have only a limited number of games (with very generic names, like Street Fight and Ride Bike) which would have not only an up-front cost higher than the competition, but would also have a per-game for-pay subscription model.

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[sunspot42]

It's already happening, and it's got nothing to do with Apple per se - it's just that the cost of the technology in general has dropped to the point where any price differential between Apple and its rivals amounts to pocket change. A good example would be the iPod - yeah there are cheaper rivals, but c'mon, we're talking about a $200 - $300 gadget here, tops. Few people are gonna care about a $20 savings. They're gonna be more concerned about whether they can get a clock radio that works with it.

Likewise, with Intel's design help game machine / digital media receiver combo devices could easily get churned out for $200 - $300. And since Apple wouldn't be spending billions to develop and launch these devices - the way Sony and Microsoft did - they'd be able to sell software for less than half the price of their rivals and still turn a tidy profit.

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[sunspot42]

Exactly. People don't get it, yet. They treat it like a phone that just happens to run OS-X. Wrong. It's a tiny Mac with phone functionality and a (by default) custom phone interface. There's no reason why you couldn't add a monitor and keyboard and have a full-fledged "desktop" PC. It's already more powerful than many PCs were a decade ago - this year's revision and next year's revision should shave that gap down to as little as 5 years.

Apple's brought the first practical, popular Dynabook to market. If they play their cards right, they could dominate personal computing within 10 years, going way beyond Microsoft in terms of customer impact.

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[sunspot42]

No, if Apple were to produce a game system, it would cost 20%+ more than the competition,

Who cares? We aren't talking $10,000 systems here, we're talking about something that would sell for maybe $300. Even if they sell the hardware for "20%" more than it's supposedly "worth", that's $60. If they can make it easy to use and market it successfully, they'll have no trouble commanding a $60 premium - that's dinner for two at a decent restaurant in Los Angeles. And if they can keep the games to $20, parents will be able to quickly determine that the total cost of ownership for the console would be a lot lower than a Playstation, with its $60 games.

The Wii has already shown us that the bulk of customers don't give a crap about "cutting edge" gaming hardware - they're more interested in the interface, and the games. Apple gets interfaces, and they'd certainly attract plenty of games developers. Leverage the iPhone, the iPod, their AppleTV / iTunes store and sell a moderately-powerful game / media receiver console for $300. Since they wouldn't need to sink billions into developing such a device, any sales they get would be pure profit, and any sales they steal away from rivals would be a nice bonus.

The console developers have been trying to convert their gaming machines into successful digital media hubs for quite a few years now, with little success. My guess is Apple will have better luck converting its digital media hub into a gaming system. You get people to buy with the promise of movies on demand, music in every room and an easy-to-use interface - a "serious" device - and then you peddle the games. That's how Commodore moved millions of 64's and ate Atari's lunch.

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[derspankster]

yeah - sure, but who in hell wants to browse the net on a 2" screen? Put down the pipe.

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[Chrisje]

Why this post hasn't been modded +5 Insightful escapes me completely. Apple has never, ever been either cheap or particularly orthogonal, let alone both at the same time.

I'm not seeing it happen.

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[sunspot42]

When you want access to the web without lugging around a larger device, like a laptop, it's perfectly acceptable. And as I said, there's nothing to stop Apple from selling a docking station for the iPhone, allowing it to use whatever monitor or keyboard you want.

Eventually, it'll probably even be able to connect wirelessly to keyboards or monitors. So you could use the 50" HDTV in your living room as a monitor, or the 27" monitor at your desk.

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[lakeland]

Did you read the comment at all before replying? You can already buy cables to plug your iphone into your HDMI TV. Apple already sells wireless printers, wireless speakers and wireless storage.

All that is missing is something to make the solution elegent instead of something that only appeals to geeks. E.g. integrated docking station with power, HDMI, and a USB port.

Re:Apple May Well Rule, But Forrester Misses Why

[CAIMLAS]

[quote]If they can make it easy to use and market it successfully, they'll have no trouble commanding a $60 premium -[/quote]

Easy to use and market successfully? We're talking about a market which is full of sleek, well-designed products marketed by the likes of Nintendo, Sony, Sega, and Microsoft. These devices have like 6 buttons and interfaces to match - the Wii being targeted towards little children. You can't get much "easier to use" than most of these devices and retain any sort of usability or feature advantage.

[quote]that's dinner for two at a decent restaurant in Los Angeles. And if they can keep the games to $20, parents will be able to quickly determine that the total cost of ownership for the console would be a lot lower than a Playstation, with its $60 games.[/quote]

You seem to be making two arguments at once.

1) Most people buying game systems are not living in (or eating out in the city of) Los Angeles. Seriously.
2) Even Nintendo isn't keeping Wii games at $20, and they're marketing the Wii to young kids and (young) families, and other such people on a tight entertainment budget. And, again, see, "Apple Premiums on Everything" and tell me, honestly, if you think Apple would sell anything physical for $20. (Heck, they charge a dollar for nothing - digital content - on iTunes where the conventional method of acquiring it has been 'free'.)

Could Apple do it? Sure, maybe. Do they show any signs of wanting to do it? Absolutely not - look at the Apple TV, for crying out loud: it's hardly been a success.

The article has a lot of stuff I consider silly

[RalphBNumbers]

But there are a couple of developments mentioned that I consider likely, or at least plausible.

The first is a fancy NAS, aka. "home server" (But not called that, of course. Whoever thought up that moniker was practically begging to have their gadget ignored by the mainstream). The Time Capsule's hardware is probably already sufficient for a lot of tasks (although they'll probably sell a new souped up model with the new features instead), and more software integration with OSX and iPods/iPhones/AppleTVs seems like a no brainer for future features.
According to NPD, Apple actually has the #1 selling product in both the 802.11n base station and NAS markets these days with Airport Extreme and Time Capsule. And, while I'm not sure they intended to enter that market quite so strongly, I think it does suit their strengths (in this case, making both the hardware and software of easy to setup devices that just work), and I hope they'll seize the opportunity they've been presented with.

And the second is adding BluRay and/or DVR modes to the AppleTV. I think it's pretty clear that a lot of consumers don't want yet another box cluttering their TV stands. If Apple can consolidate a couple of other doodads into theirs for relatively little cost, without compromising the user experience, they ought to go for it. And given that they've recently been allowing variable pricing for new shows from HBO in the US, and other channels in the UK, I think Apple might be becoming open to flexibility in other aspects of video distribution as well. There are certainly still good reasons for them not to do this (dealing with the cable-card/DRM mess, supporting the competition, adding cost and complexity, etc), but in the long run I think it might be worth it to smooth the transition to mainstream internet video distribution.

Why wait until then?

[Jafafa Hots]

I have a PopcornHour Networked Digital Media Tank. I can play video files of any format including subtitles from any PC on the network on my HDTV, audio files from any PC on the network on my stereo.

I can also use it to play any streaming video or audio from the net, browse Google Video and Youtube and many others from my couch... and it even has a built-in bittorrent client if I want to download media to the internal hard drive.

All in a little box the size of an external drive enclosure... with a remote. USB inputs, network inputs, HDMI out, etc.

All for a couple of hundred bucks. Which I'm sure is a fraction of what Apple will be charging when theirs comes to market in a few years.

Re:Why wait until then?

[baeksu]

Wow, I never heard of this product. Maybe esthetically the machine is not the prettiest in the world, but the functionality absolutely rocks.

I'm using a modded xbox for video playback at home, but if the box ever breaks, I'm definitely getting one of these to replace it.

This machine needs to be advertised more!

Re:Why wait until then?

[Jafafa Hots]

It's freaking great. But you need to get on the waiting list, go to the website and sign up. There's about a 2 month wait.

Following the iPod and iPhone trend...

[Orcspit]

Does this mean I'll have to send my "digital home" off to a service center three months after I buy it to?

No one wants integration

[geek]

Or if they do they're insane. Product tie-in is why people ran to Apple in the first place, to get away from the Microsoft lock-in. Now Apple is doing it. I recently dumped everything I had Apple and moved to FOSS for exactly this reason. It kills competition and locks you into inferior products all for the sack of compatibility.

I like that I can have different components from different manufacturers. It means I can shop around for the best deals. As soon as one company ties it all in you can look forward to the death of standards like HDMI. Anyone remember ADC? The Apple Display Connector? Don't think for a second Apple wont start doing this to lock you in.

It boggles the mind why people get so excited about vendor lock-in like this. Suddenly it's a good thing? Did we learn nothing from the 90's and the Microsoft/Intel/Cisco empire?

Re:No one wants integration

[sunspot42]

Actually, I think everyone wants integration, if it works well. The problem so far has been most "integrated" devices have been overcomplicated crap. Sure hardcore geeks can use Windows Media Center PCs, and a few have been willing to shell out $1500 or whatever for one, but most folks want something easier and cheaper.

Enter Apple.

Integration can help ensure things "just work", if done correctly (Microsoft being the poster child for how not to do it correctly). The downside is, it's either Apple's way or the highway. But that's really already the case for any existing integrated solutions from every other consumer electronics vendor, from Bose to Nokia to, well, Microsoft.

Apple has successfully locked people into the iPod with the iPod's connector. They've leveraged their position as the #1 portable music player to build up a whole ecology of products that'll only work with their devices, a barrier to entry even Microsoft couldn't overcome. If they establish themselves as the lead integrator in the home, as I suspect is likely via the iPhone and future successors to the AppleTV, they're going to become virtually impossible to work around.

Their products aren't perfect, but I'm frankly glad it's gonna be them and not either Microsoft or Sony. Apple is at worst annoying - Sony and MS have already proven dangerous.

Re:No one wants integration

[Concerned Onlooker]

The ADC? Sure. Apple used to have the ADC where power, usb and signal all went through the same cable. Now they don't. Now you can plug any monitor you want into a Mac. That is actually a move away from vendor lock in. If you want to make a point about vendor lock in this wasn't the example to use.

Re:No one wants integration

[Tom90deg]

Well, you're missing the point. Lock in is a very bad thing. Unless it's Apple doing it. Then it's very very good.

Re:No one wants integration

[geekoid]

How is Apple doing it?
Can I ahve your old Apple hardware?
"Don't think for a second Apple wont start doing this to lock you in."
Of course they won't. It would be stupid, a quick glance at then Stereo market would tell you that is bad and nobody succeeded fpr very long doing that.

And if they did? so what, as soon as it was a problem, people would abandon it in droves. In a lot of ways it's following the Stereo history.

Most people WANT 1 unit to do it all, but nobody can make one that keeps enough people happy.

And your argument is a strawman, BTW

Re:No one wants integration

[geekoid]

"Apple has successfully locked people into the iPod with the iPod's connector. "
What are you talking about?

Yes, they ahve products that only work with their devices, so what? that's not lock in. If only provided them, then that would be lock in.

It's like saying Chevy has vendor lock in based on there Auto parts When ANYONE can make them as sell them.

Re:No one wants integration

[falconwolf]

I like that I can have different components from different manufacturers. It means I can shop around for the best deals. As soon as one company ties it all in you can look forward to the death of standards like HDMI.

Apple TV works with HDMI and supports a bunch of resolutions. It works with many TVs.

Anyone remember ADC? The Apple Display Connector? Don't think for a second Apple wont start doing this to lock you in.

After switching from Windows, to both Linux and Macs, I can hook the MacBook Pro I'm typing this on to any monitor currently available. Actually I've been looking for a big screen monitor for photo editing.

It boggles the mind why people get so excited about vendor lock-in like this.

I haven't seen anyone excited about vender lock-in.

Falcon

Re:No one wants integration

[sunspot42]

It's like saying Chevy has vendor lock in based on there Auto parts When ANYONE can make them as sell them.

No, it's like saying that Chevy has customer lockin based on the fact that the majority of garages are only configured to allow Chevy's to park in them, and the vast majority of tires only fit Chevy's propriteary wheels. Buy a Ford and you can't park it most places, and don't have the same range of accessories to chose from.

That's the situation with the iPod - from car stereos to clock radios, Apple's iPod connector is the only interface available for a vast array of products. If users choose some other portable media player, they're locked out of using all those other gadgets.

I'm not blaming Apple for this - that's what happens when you totally dominate a market, the way the iPod dominates its market.

Re:No one wants integration

[sdpuppy]

I agree. Plus you can get an "adapter" so that the old monitors can still be used.

Also proprietary is proprietary when no one else adopts your "standard" (industry standard may or may not exist/be firm at the time the product comes out)

Apple does have a history of being stubborn - keyboard/mouse connections, Hard drive, serial ports, ethernet, memory chips...

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[code4fun]

My Mighty Mouse only has a clit, but it can emulate 4 buttons! After using it for a few months, I prefer this over my MS Mouse now. I now own two of them: one for the mini and one for the laptop. I'm still waiting on TiVo like functionality before I get an Apple TV.

A new study by me says

[Hawthorne01]

No, they won't.

And I ain't gonna charge you $400 for it.

$5 will do.

Thank you.

In-home installation services? Terrible business

[Animats]

Providing in-home installation services would not be forward progress. Eliminating the need for in-home installation services would be.

Cabling for home entertainment systems needs to be simplified drastically. Current large-screen TVs have far too many connectors. The home entertainment industry has been unable to make all the boxes talk to each other and self-configure. The display vendors, the cable box vendors, the media player vendors, and the "amplifier" vendors each want to be in charge. The game console people don't worry about integration much. So we don't have idiot-resistant plug and play, even though that's technically possible. (It is getting better, though; if you're all HDMI, things do interoperate better. Aspect ratio, for example, is handled automatically.)

Apple probably isn't in a position to make that happen, though. Apple may sell a "media center" box, but they won't be the only one.

iHome

[acrobg]

So how long until we see the inevitable iHome? we'll have the iPlasma with an AppleTV attached, iSpeaker system, iDVR, iMedia Center, iBluRay player, etc.

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[vikstar]

It makes Guitar Hero much easier.

Re:Once you go Mac...

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Uhhmm, Nothing can say its 100% secure. Nothing. Even OpenBSD has had two remotely exploitable vulnerabilities.

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[sunspot42]

My Mighty Mouse only has a clit Only a clit? Sexist.

Besides, it's clearly a nipple.

5 year predictions...

[proxima]

Forrester Research

January 25, 1996: "Whether they stand alone or are acquired, Apple as we know it is cooked. It's so classic. It's so sad."

I suppose Apple as we knew it in 1996 is dead, but how many people really miss that Apple? By January 2001 Apple was on the rebound, 3 years after introducing the iMac and about to release Mac OS X 10.0.

I don't think that's what Forrester had in mind, though. I'll take any such company-specific predictions with a grain of salt.

prediction

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing these analysts do best is "missing the point" by miles and miles. Poor Apple, if it is really its strategy, I am sure these predictions are precisely the reason that it will never succeed.

Re:Once you go Mac...

[dadragon]

Actually, Windows was available for the PowerPC, and I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft has a version of it that's workable on the PowerPC to this day.

USA, maybe

[dwater]

Perhaps it should be renamed, United States of Apple.

yeah right....

[timmarhy]

quickly another apple story on /.
everyone masturbate over your ipod mini's. apple will fuck up their current popularity just like they did last time. that's MY prediction.

Re:yeah right....

[geekoid]

Yeah, keep predicting that, you've been wrong how many years in a row?

blah blah blah

[Carfentanil]

This article reminds me of the Astounding! articles predicting global space travel for everyone by the year 2000. It never came to pass, and neither will this Apple-related garbage.

Rule the home?

[Khyber]

Not as long as free alternatives exist, at least for those who know.

would you trust this guy

[Anonymous Coward]

If Stony Stevenson (or for that matter anyone) had predicted in 2001 that Apple would rule consumer gadget market in 2006, then I would take such articles seriously. Unfortunately no one ever did. The consumer market shifts very rapidly and what is hot today becomes boring tomorrow.

I don't know whether Apple would dominate or not, but most products mentioned in the article are just extrapolation of what exists today and there is nothing surprise here. Here is my own list of few products not mentioned but I would love to have:

How about a full docking station for your portable gadget? Thus my phone/mp3/gps is my computer! I will have a dummy docking station which connects to monitor, TV, keyboard, mouse, external disks etc. Thus I can carry my computer wherever I go (provided where I go, has a docking station).

Add GPS, external memory slot to cell phone. A cell phone should also be able to act as a regular cordless phone. Add VOIP functionality to cell phone.

Replace regular TV set top boxes with a computer boxes which can act as cable box, full PC, DVR.

Add weather station in cell antennas. Thus my cell phone will display outside temperature. This is so easy, I don't know why it is not there.

Maybe no?

[edcheevy]

I dunno... isn't one of the major selling points of Apple products a sense of style that you are supposed to show off to other people? I know that's not their only selling point, but it sure seems like a big one. They do well by portable goodies (laptops, iPhone, iPod) that you can wave in front of someone and say "shiny", but are more average on other things. I suppose you can still show off your "digital hub" to people who come over to your house, but it doesn't feel the same.

Quick, get a fanboi in here to show me the error of my ways! ;)

Re:Maybe no?

[Hal_Porter]

I dunno... isn't one of the major selling points of Apple products a sense of style that you are supposed to show off to other people? I know that's not their only selling point, but it sure seems like a big one. They do well by portable goodies (laptops, iPhone, iPod) that you can wave in front of someone and say "shiny", but are more average on other things. I suppose you can still show off your "digital hub" to people who come over to your house, but it doesn't feel the same.

Quick, get a fanboi in here to show me the error of my ways! ;) You could talk LOUDLY about you digital home hub on the subway on your iPhone.

"fully integrated digital experience"

[Franklin Brauner]

I think it's time someone at /. create a graphic of Borg Steve Jobs.

hahah ffs, you're kidding me..

[Anonymous Coward]

Selling overpriced laptops and producing a half decent portable media player is a far cry from owning 'digital home' in 2000 and whatever.

Whats next? Flying cars and world peace?

This just in...

[Anonymous Coward]

This just in...Hundreds of confused apple fans have formed a line outside of said digital home, more at 11.

4 Button overloads nowadays

[krischik]

The mighty mouse which arrived yesterday has 4 buttons and trakball.

Of corse if you just look at a mighty mouse at the shops you won't notice because the designers made the mouse lokke like it has no buttons at all.

Martin

Re:Once you go Mac...

[Yaztromo]

Actually, Windows was available for the PowerPC, and I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft has a version of it that's workable on the PowerPC to this day.

IBM did the port of Windows NT to the PowerPC architecture, and not Microsoft. While one of the original intents of NT was to maintain some form of platform neutrality by doing everything in C, in reality it wasn't true then and I seriously doubt if it's true now with Vista. MS is pretty much locked into Intel compatible processors.

Yaz.

2013?

[jeffkjo1]

I'm going to get modded down for this, but as it's common knowledge that the world is set to end in 2012, it seems that claim's of Apple's universal dominance are a bit premature.

It's kind of hard to rule the digital home if there aren't any.

Who knew the Mayan's hated Apple fanboys?

Re:2013?

[dbcad7]

Perhaps it's just the end of the world as you know it.. and the new one will be Apple dominated. (it's a stretch, but not impossible).. Maybe Microsoft collapses and folds in the "Neo Depression" years of 09'-11'

And on the Mayan thing.. I think it's impressive that the Mayan calendar went for as long as it did, but eternity is a long time to cover, so I am not surprised that it had a stopping point.. but that doesn't mean anything more than Staples only stocking calenders for a couple years ahead.

Re:2013?

[dangitman]

Not if Steve Jobs has an unpenetrable bunker located in a parallel time-stream. Then his will be the only home left to dominate digitally.

Re:2013?

[Bryan Bytehead]

That's what I keep thinking when I read about this 2013 thing.

And I think the Mayans hate everybody equally well, since we're all going to die anyway.

Re:2013?

[toddestan]

I also heard that 2013 is the year for Linux on the desktop. It's sure shaping up to be an interesting year!

house full of dumb!

[ILuvRamen]

That's what this article is lol. I think pretty much forever, Apple's customers will only be rich, showey people who don't know computers very well and douchbags (and some professional media editors for God only knows why cuz Adobe CS3 and Premiere and some Ulead products run on the PC). So unless we all become image obsessed douchebags in the future, I don't think Apple's taking over anything. Linux however is about to kick Microsoft's ass and I'll put money on that one. Get your wikipedia edits about Microsoft going bankrupt written in advance lol.

Re:house full of dumb!

[Anonymous Coward]

Go back to Digg, fag.

Apple 2013?

[Anonymous Coward]

Silly, everyone knows that 2012 is the year of linux on the desktop.

Still waiting on digital home and the flying cars

[file_reaper]

Hasn't this Digital Home idea been in the making since the early 90's? Bluetooth was supposed to be key step to aid in this process but has altogether failed. I can probably see Sony coming out with a solution for this since they do have many products and the expertise. Plus do we really want everything to be controlled by software? The quote "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization" comes to mind.

Forrester is waking but, but not Roughly Drafted

[Ilyon]

I give Forrester Research credit for finally waking up and smelling the coffee, but they're still in a groggy, early morning stupor.

AFAIK, this is the first article from a mainstream computer industry research report that acknowledges Apple may have a very serious and viable five year product plan, beyond their existing hit products.

But then, Forrester goes on to say Apple's "commitment to closed systems" poses a barrier to wide adoption. In the previous paragraph, Microsoft and HP are cited as tough competitors, without mention of how much more closed Windows is. Nor does the article mention that Apple's proprietary parts are superior interfaces to open protocols.

I would have been much more impressed if the article discussed how Apple's practice of continuously building and improving on past technical and product successes poses a serious challenge to Microsoft and HPs practice of quarterly product planning. I guess this degree of insightfulness is reserved for more independent sources, like Roughly Drafted.

bit terrent

[falconwolf]

And I really doubt that any company, even Apple, would really want to or be able to serve up paid media and install BT to link into illegal distribution of copyrighted materials onto their box like that

Bittorrent is quite capable of distributing legal media as well as illegal. I'm not a content provider however if I did make movies and or music I very well may use Bittorrent for distribution. I'd use it to distribute low quality version of whatever then allow a high quality version to be downloaded for paying customers. For a little extra they could even order the movie or music on physical media sent by Fed Ex, UPS or snail mail.

Falcon

Re:bit terrent

[yabos]

Yeah, yeah, we all know that. Just because there's lots of legitimate uses doesn't mean 90% of bittorrent usage is for downloading tv shows and other things. Right now I'm downloading a Cocoa Heads meeting video and throttled to insanely slow speeds that make it take 3 days to get 1.2 GB worth of video. That's completely a legitimate thing I'm using it for but you still can't pretend that most of the use at the moment is non legitimate or illegally distributed copyrighted material.

Re:bit terrent

[falconwolf]

My point is that as long as there are legitimate uses for something it shouldn't be blocked or outlawed.

And as for laws there's a good flowchart on "Should there be a law".

Falcon

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[giorgist]

Yep .. it's called TV-B-Gone

oh, really?

[CAIMLAS]

What's the acronym for the opposite of FUD?

More than likely, this is just more nonsense from the standard Apple product cycle.

Re:oh, really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Jobs' RDF?

Re:oh, really?

[Anonymous Coward]

RDF, as in Reality Distortion Field ?

Re:oh, really?

[Weedlekin]

Thanks for the link. It provided a real chuckle for someone who owns a couple of Apple products (plus lots of non-Apple ones), but has yet to experience any profound, life-changing epiphanies, and hasn't suddenly become cool, gay, or both through using them.

Re:oh, really?

[DannyO152]

POOP: Pie-Ocular Optimistic Punditry

Apple

[falconwolf]

The way the 360 integrates with an internal computer network to deliver high quality video and audio is pretty darn slick.

Other than perhaps a less clunky interface, I can't imagine how Apple could trump that.

With built in network ports, Ethernet and WiFi, Apple TV can also integrate with a computer network, and it works with Windows and OS X. It can serve up movies, music, and photos. And it works with standard as well as HDTVs.

Falcon

Re:Apple

[Lars T.]

And in case the OP still wants to see the trump - compare the noise from a 360 and an Apple TV.

Apple and the sub $200 PC

[petes_PoV]

The only way Apple could get any kind of toe-hold in the average household is if their stuff is cheaper than anyone else's. That's all it takes, just low price. Oh yes and they should've started this strategy about 5 years ago.

I have no idea why the media is so in love with Apple and it's products - the real world just seems to ignore them. From what I've seen, no real people use Apple PCs or laptops, a some have oneiPod and a tiny fraction have an iPhone (but would they buy another?). It's only the media "luvvies" who seem to use them in any great number, and are responsible for placing them in TV and film productions. This gives the entirely false impression that they are ubiquitous - they aren't. Outside the U.S. an Apple PC/lappy is about as common as a tandem bicycle - you know they exist, but see maybe one or two a year.

Will that change? No. They don't offer any functions that average, normal, people want, at a price they're willing to pay.

Re:Apple and the sub $200 PC

[sunspot42]

The only way Apple could get any kind of toe-hold in the average household is if their stuff is cheaper than anyone else's.

Yeah, just look how successful eMachines was. Why, they blew Dell and HP away!

When you get down under the $1000 price level, some piddling little savings isn't going to do much to differentiate you from the competition. Most customers still have plenty of anxiety when it comes to buying a PC. They aren't worried about the price (within reason) - they want something that's going to be easy to use, and that won't break down or leave them flailing around trying to resolve cryptic errors.

I have no idea why the media is so in love with Apple and it's products - the real world just seems to ignore them.

Right. Which is why they're now the #1 retail vendor of consumer PC's. Clearly, this is all just a media plot. I'm sure that's why their market cap is 3.5 times that of Dell.

Re:Apple and the sub $200 PC

[itsdapead]

The only way Apple could get any kind of toe-hold in the average household is if their stuff is cheaper than anyone else's. That's all it takes, just low price.

Funny, because they've been very successfully growing their market share over the last 5 years - and dominated the portable music player market - by staying out of the high volume, low-end of the market and positioning themselves as a "designer label".

Outside the U.S. an Apple PC/lappy is about as common as a tandem bicycle - you know they exist, but see maybe one or two a year.

That's partly historical - I'd debate whether Macs are overpriced now (if you compare like-for-like in terms of form factor) but back in the 80s & 90s Apple really did price itself out of, e.g, the UK market with the 'ol £1=$1 trick - at a time when the actual exchange rate was £1>$2, Sinclair were selling cheap'n'cheerful computers for ~£100 and Acorn were selling BBC Micros (which kicked sand in the face of the aging Apple II) for £300 - and a few years later the cheap home-grown/far East PC clones came along and swept up. The only real presence was in the DTP/Graphics/Video industry where, for a while, only Macs could cut the mustard.

So, whereas in the US Apple always had enclaves (e.g. in education - I work in Math Ed and many - probably most - of my US colleagues use Macs) in the UK and elsewhere they're starting from zero.

Placement

[Excelcia]

To watch all the Apple product placement, you'd think they ruled the world now.

Apple TV

[falconwolf]

A consumer that has a TV that's brand A and a stereo receiver that's brand B, and neither one of them work with Apple's latest "digital media center" (or don't work very well) aren't going to run out and buy an Apple TV or receiver, especially when there are other products that will work with his or her existing equipment.

Except Apple TV works with many, if not most or all, TVs. It also can play different audio formats. What I don't see though are any regular stereo inputs. All I've got now is an old stereo, however I want to get an amp/receiver, reel-to-reel tape deck, and a vinyl turntable. With such a setup I'd do what I used to do, the first tyme I played a record I recorded it on a reel of tape then played the tape. If the tape wears out I still would have the record and could rerecord it. I could also add another step, import the music onto my Mac and rip into mp3 files.

Falcon

* In-home installation services

[falconwolf]

Actually there's a pretty good market in home installations now, with media centers, automatic systems, and remote control like X10 being installed. I've seen 3 or 4 magazines that focus on these like "Smart Homeowner" and "Electronic House". Falcon

iPhone sex?

[denzacar]

everyone masturbate over your ipod mini's. Shouldn't that be easier and more pleasing with iPhone?

I mean... you CAN set it to vibrate.

Re:Once you go Mac...

[Anonymous Coward]

The NT line (which includes vista) has always been portable. The newest port is Server 2003/XP 64 for IA64. That doesn't mean a quick recompile is all that is needed but Microsoft has always left the option open just as Apple kept the x86 port of OS 10 on the table for many years before release.

GREAT NEWS!!! What?

[gsgriffin]

The title doesn't match the research statement. Duh! If Apple will rule the home entertainment, this implies that most people will have it in their homes (at least some may read it that way). What that really means IS WE WILL ALL BE RICH AND THEN ABLE TO AFFORD ALL APPLE HIGH-END FLASHY STUFF TO LOOK COOL IN FRONT OF OUR FRIENDS THAT REALLY DON'T CARE!!!!!

Mighty Mouse a disappointment in the long run

[AHumbleOpinion]

My Mighty Mouse only has a clit, but it can emulate 4 buttons! After using it for a few months, I prefer this over my MS Mouse now.

In 6 to 12 month when cleaning the roller no longer restores usability you'll go back to Microsoft or Logitech like many other early adopters. In the long run it turns out to be quite a disappointment for the price. It's a cool device out of the box but it has longevity problems.

Re:Mighty Mouse a disappointment in the long run

[mikael_j]

I can't say I've had this problem with my Mighty Mouse (that's actually hooked up to my Linux PC as I use a wacom tablet with my main mac), but then I take care not to make a disgusting mess of my computers.

This may be true for some other people though, like those of my friends who swear cellphones are made to only last a few months while chucking them around and dipping them in drinks (yes, a friend of mine did this and seemed almost surprised when it stopped working), or who complain that keyboards always get so gunked up with sticky crap that the keys get stuck (hint: stop eating greasy food while typing).

/Mikael

Re:Mighty Mouse a disappointment in the long run

[AHumbleOpinion]

This may be true for some other people though, like those of my friends who swear cellphones are made to only last a few months while chucking them around and dipping them in drinks (yes, a friend of mine did this and seemed almost surprised when it stopped working), or who complain that keyboards always get so gunked up with sticky crap that the keys get stuck (hint: stop eating greasy food while typing).

I have several computers. The Apple USB keyboard has had no problem for years, it has been used on a couple different machines as I replaced one Mac with another over the years. The IBM keyboards (model M) I use have literally been in use for over a decade. The Microsoft and Logitech optical USB mice (inexpensive models, half the price of the might mouse) that I use have been in service for many years, moving from one machine to another through various upgrades. Only the mighty mouse was high maintenance and eventually failed. Face it, it is a fragile device despite its premium price.

Re:Mighty Mouse a disappointment in the long run

[code4fun]

In 6 to 12 month when cleaning the roller no longer restores usability you'll go back to Microsoft or Logitech like many other early adopters.

I've had one for over 6 months and I can't say I have this problem. After 3 months of using the Mighty Mouse, I bought a second pair for the laptop. I do, however, try to keep things clean. I also use the iKlear polish to keep the computer and peripherals looking new.

I own a MS Wireless Laser 6000 and a Wireless NoteBook Presenter Mouse 8000 (bluetooth). The Laser 6000 works great, but I had bad results with the Presenter. The bluetooth comes and goes. I ended up replacing it with the Mighty Mouse which has been trouble free thus far.

I also work with VNC/X11 to connect to Unix boxes and the Mighty Mouse just works out of the box! I get the expected X11 3 button functionality. Cut & Paste works just like it would if you were on a Unix workstation. With the MS mouse, I had to mess around with it just to get things to work.

Borg Steve Jobs?

[denzacar]

Please - don't.
Some iBoy would probably do it in the 7 of 9's silvery style.

And I don't think that the rest of us would find those breast implants on iSteve appealing.
Actually, I think that most of us would find it quote revolting.

One thing they always overlook...

[Bones3D_mac]

... is that we generally like to buy products we can physically handle and resell when we grow tired of it. This all-digital distribution ideology goes against the grain of our concept of "ownership". So now, when we "buy" a movie, we only get a license to view it on a proprietary piece of hardware... both of which are specifically tied to our personal identity, with no discount what-so-ever for the lack of a physical product or the ability to transfer the product to a new owner after-market. This means that, unlike DVDs or CDs, you now have zero chance of regaining at least some of the money you gave up in the initial purchase. The money simply goes away... never to be seen again.

This factor can have a huge influence on a person's hard value based upon their ability to put their possessions up as collateral. For example, let's say two people spend an equal amount of money on the same titles of music/movies/games/etc, but one of them buys only the digitally distributed, while the other buys everything on CDs/DVDs/etc. Now, let's say both of these guys suddenly end up in debt and need to make a quick buck. Our first guy probably has to resort to turning tricks in some alley, while our second guy can simply go to ebay with his collection and wait for the money to roll in.

Unfortunately, the second guy is quickly becoming a dying breed, due to demand for instant gratification and personal convenience. Digital distribution screws up the concept of trade we've used for thousands of years. We're handing over our physically-backed valuables in exchange for something that has no actual value outside our own hands.

Nokia

[falconwolf]

I just got an iphone to get rid of that piece of shit E65 after promising everyone, that it was my last ever nokia.

Yea, I can kick myself for buying the Nokia item I bought. A bit over 10 years ago I saw a 21" Nokia monitor and liked it, so as I was looking for a large monitor I bought one. I didn't have it a year before paying to send it into their repair facility because the display was wrong. After getting it back a week or two later it still had the same problem. It was nice while it worked but it didn't work long.

Falcon

Re:Nokia

[Achromatic1978]

And yet you're happy to buy Apple. How many replacement logic boards did some (several thousands) people's Powerbooks go through? I have two friends that had three replacements each. One had two discolored MBs, too.

Yes, they came back "fixed", til they broke "again", quite quickly.

And yet you're happy to continue using one company and flame the other online.

CHRIST NO! NOT AGAIN!

[Jane Q. Public]

Yet another example of using today's trends to predict the far future.

Can you say "global warming"? Sure. I knew you could.

Re:Still waiting on digital home and the flying ca

[Weedlekin]

"Hasn't this Digital Home idea been in the making since the early 90's?"

They've certainly been trying to push the concept since then. It's become a meme like the Paperless Office was in the 1970s and 1980s.

"Hasn't this Digital Home idea been in the making since the early 90's?"

It failed because there's no evidence whatsoever to show that people want the sort of "digital home" that's being offered (which isn't a digital home at all, but a centralised digital entertainment system that belongs to the commercial media industry even though you have to buy it).

"I can probably see Sony coming out with a solution for this since they do have many products and the expertise."

But they're also a media company, so their products are frequently hobbled by draconian DRM systems. It goes without saying that the market doesn't react kindly to being expected to pay more for integrated systems that prevent them from doing things they're accustomed to doing with cheaper, non-integrated products.

"Plus do we really want everything to be controlled by software"

An incredible variety of everyday devices are already controlled by software. The fact that it's not obvious and can't communicate with the software in other devices doesn't mean it isn't there.

"The quote "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization" comes to mind."

The problem with this quote is that it completely ignores the vast numbers of badly designed and shoddily constructed buildings that have been thrown up (and subsequently collapsed) since we stopped using caves as our primary indoor living spaces. It also ignores the fact that physical architecture is based on principles that were discovered by trial and error over tens of thousands of years, while programming has gone from teepees to skyscrapers in half a century.

The trouble with a digital home

[itsdapead]

No - but whereas in your analogue home you can sit back and look at the damp patch slowly spreading on the wall and think "I must get that fixed before it starts sprouting fungus" your Digital home will stay crisp and pristine up until the day when it suddenly, without warning, dissolves into a mess of pixels.

What part of "home market" don't you understand?

[itsdapead]

Until iTunes can be used as a media player AND a bittorrent client, I don't think it'll happen (at least not for me)

Bittorrent? What's that? Isn't that something that pirates and terrorists use to exploit poor starving artists?

iTunes and the iPod have been successful because of the public perception that they just work - now, you can debate how true that is if you like, but that's the line. Part of that ease of use is exactly because they force you to use iTunes (the software*) - which annoys slashdotters who want to mount their mp3 player under Debian and copy .ogg files to it, but is a matter of sheer indifference to the mass market, who like the seamlessness that comes from the monolithic approach.

As for the AppleTV: at the moment, whereas the iTunes store is there to sell iPods, the AppleTV is there to sell iTunes video, and to "tick a box" so that people buying video for their iPods know there's an Apple-branded solution to show them on the big screen. Once the online video market has "come of age" (which will also need a bit of a revolution in broadband availability & capacity) Apple might get serious about the AppleTV.

(*Of course, iTunes the software doesn't force you to buy your media from iTunes, the store - it will happily rip audio CDs, accept MP3s and unprotected AACs from any source - legal or otherwise - and a google for "rip DVD to iTunes" produces a heap of solutions: if you know Bittorrent you probably know Google)

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[Anonymous Coward]

A one button TV remote would be great.
It would require that the TV has a decent menu system though. Most TV remotes are too complicated.

Ludicrous Fanboyism!

[crhylove]

Let me bring it back down to reality for you:

Apple has been first to market with stolen ideas about a million times. The mouse they stole from xerox, they had first. They failed. Speech recognition they had first. They failed. An OS that was GUI rather than text based: failed. A strong Unix based OS: Hey, they won one. They made a better ipod than sony, and the handful of RIAA slaves that really weren't that enthusiastic about mp3s to begin with.... duh....

OS 9 was a dismal abortion. So was every OS they put out, up until OS X. Suddenly they get one minor thing right (and it's still far behind most linux/unixes!), and they are going to take over the home? Every home? Within 5 years?

Has anybody here ever used quicktime? IT SUCKS. Have you tried iTunes? IT SUCKS. Have you tried anything from apple besides os X and an ipod that DIDN'T TOTALLY SUCK!??!

Yeah, I thought not. Don't get me wrong, ipods are a good design, despite the horrid itunes interface, the DRM, and the over priced nature of them and lack of flash media integration. OS X is also a good design, albeit drastically behind even most of the inferior Linux distros.

The ONLY thing Apple has right is that they design their products for total idiots, and roundly hit the mark 2 out of ten times.

Microsoft is losing it's hegemony, and Apple is a small part of the story, but Linux will be the big winner. It's inevitable. FOSS will take over everywhere, just like Firefox already has. I already use:

Firefox
Thunderbird
Pidgin
Open Office
Infrarecord
The GIMP
VLC
Cool Player + Portable
UltraVNC
Mupen64Plus
and ioquake3.

Not just because they are FOSS, but because they are the best programs available, and they are free. It's not going to take long until a Linux distro emulates Windows perfectly in form and function and also comes bundled with those obvious choices. Maybe we'll have to wait for ReactOS, or maybe it will be some future Ubuntu derivative, but it's only a matter of time.

And I'm sure there will be a FOSS skype killer soon enough, so that I don't require proprietary software anywhere on my machine. FOSS is just a better model. Give it time. This war is already over.

Re:Ludicrous Fanboyism!

[PeeAitchPee]

The GIMP . . . (snip) . . . they are the best programs available

Ahhh, such irony can only be found on Slashdot . . . now who's calling who a fanboy?

Re:Ludicrous Fanboyism!

[crhylove]

Hey, Photoshop may be marginally better, but for an extra $500 I will never know.... Besides, I haven't found an action that I was unable to do in the GIMP as far as photo editing goes, and I do some complicated things......

I don't however publish a magazine and require CMYK..... Is there something else that photoshop has the gimp doesn't? I'd love to hear about them....

Terence McKenna was right!

[zish]

Apple will be the means to the eschaton!

Interesting..!

[Artuir]

They went from 2008 being the year of OSX on the desktop to 2013 being the year of OSX on everything! Aren't you apple guys happy? :D Confirmation from the future is always a crowd pleaser. We need someone to stand up like this for Linux!

This explains what I saw yesterdsay...

[Shipwack]

I walked into a Best Buy yesterday, and saw that they now have an "Apple Store" inside.

If Apple really intends to integrate into home entertainment systems for the mass market, a electronics chain store would be a good place to start.

Maybe they are preparing for something that Jobs will be announcing at his speech next month? Everyone is focusing on what he's going to say about the iPhone, but it would be his style to announce something out of left field and thus surprise everyone.

Ungh. Pipe dreams at best.

[Annoid]

Ungh. Pipe dreams at best.

Until Apple decides to get off their elitist & overpriced high horse & compete with the Wintel platform on cost, they are never going to be more than a niche market player in the home computing market. And at this stage of the game, due to their own ineptness at marketing their product, they've allowed the Wintel platform to build what is by now probably an insurmountable lead. Hell, there is a reasonable chance that there are more computers running Linux in the U.S than there are Apples. Due to the nature of Linux, however, that would be difficult to document.

Yes, They have a nice OS. I've played with the "Hackintosh" distributions enough to know that. And it's based on BSD Unix, which I've always liked. But will I, or most U.S. consumers pay significantly more for a computer just because it has that little apple logo on it? Not a chance.

iTunes is great, the iPod sucks

[argent]

Different strokes for different folks. I find different products compelling than you, perhaps it's possible that you're mistaken about what's good and what's bad?

I don't like Firefox. It's better than IE, but that's like pointing out a bad cold is better than ebola. My browser is Camino, on the Mac... there isn't a comparable product on Windows opr Linux that I can see.

iTunes is a great user interface to music, I haven't found one that does a better job for the way I listen to music.

The iPod clickwheel sucks, luckily they went with a more conventional interface for the iPod Shuffle. Which also does a great job for the way I listen to music.

Adium kicks Pidgin's butt.

Open Office is made of fail, because it emulates Office, just like Gnome is a pain for the way it emulates Windows.

The Gimp isn't up to photoshop yet, but it's getting closer.

And you'll find people who disagree with all of these. How about that. People actually have different preferences.

Which is why a lot of people go with Windows. They know they are more likely to find software they like on Windows. And, after all, people buy computers to run software, not operating systems.

Macs are a compromise. There's a better variety of better software than if you sick purely to a FOSS platform, but the OS doesn't sit up and remind you that it's emulating a wrapper around DOS all the bloody time. It's possible to prefer Macs over Linux without being a raving Apple fanboy.

Re:iTunes is great, the iPod sucks

[crhylove]

Well, I disagree whole heartedly on several points and AM a dyed in the wool firefox fanboy, but at least you were polite and argued on the topic, and with valid points! I still got modded down by a MacFanboy though. I should have seen that coming. I'm still waiting for somebody to defend OS 9. I guess you could say it was OK compared to Windows ME, weren't they out about the same time?!?

LOL

To be fair though, you are absolutely right about people chose an OS for the software. I'm on Windows because of the awesome FOSS tool chain I've acquired there. I haven't found Linux software to be as good as the FOSS apps in Windows, even though some of it is SUPPOSEDLY the same software! For instance, Firefox is much better in windows than in Ubuntu.....

The real truth (for me) though is that all the software over at:

http://portableapps.com/

is so easy to manage, run, and reliable that I can't imagine switching much of what I do for a long time to come. The only thing I miss from Linux is Ardour, and the only thing I miss from Mac is..... iChat?!?? Though like I initially said, skype works pretty well.....

Re:iTunes is great, the iPod sucks

[argent]

I'm still waiting for somebody to defend OS 9. I guess you could say it was OK compared to Windows ME, weren't they out about the same time?!?

Mac OS before OS X was, well, bloody awful. It doesn't deserve any defense.

But I need an OS that's under my control from the bottom to the top. Even with Interix and all the open source tools you want, Windows just doesn't cut it for me. UNIX has a simple and clean design from the kernel all the way up, with some horrible exceptions, but every one of those exceptions is also horrible in Windows... with even more Windows-specific nastiness slathered on top of it. Like the Firefox/IE ShellExecute bug. That bug can not exist on UNIX, because there's no ambiguity about how applications split up command lines into arguments... the API passes a list of names, not a string that has to be reparsed by the application.

OS X, it's got closed source stuff in the upper layers, but I can bypass them, and the Cocoa API is amazingly reflective: the API of an Objective C class is documented in the object code. There aren't any secret APIs because if Apple can call it, so can you. And the lower layers... I have the source code. So I get the best of both worlds: an OS that doesn't suck, and applications that don't suck.

Windows definitely has everyone beat on the number of applications, but Win32 is like a swamp. Like one of those radioactive swamps in SF movies with mutant killer seaweed that reaches out of the quicksand and strangles the protagonist's best friend (but clears away his rival for the leading lady). It's so bad that Microsoft has already tried to kill it once, with .NET (but .NET has its own swamp in Winforms), and now they're saying that Windows 7 will only retain it in some kind of legacy mode. We'll see.

Re:iTunes is great, the iPod sucks

[crhylove]

Wow, now you are saying things that I can agree 100% with. :) Though it'd have amused me to hear somebody try to defend OS 9. God that was such an awful bloody abortion!!!

Apple TV - Major Mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

The one mistake Apple made with the Apple TV (and is contributing to it's low level of sales) is that the output is *only* for HDTV. I'd love to get one, but it needs to work with the TV I have now. I'm not buying an addon device that will only work if I buy a new TV to use it.

ZillionTV

[Anonymous Coward]

Is ZillionTV a code name for Apple Digital Home?

Wii not capable...

[Junta]

The various components of the Wii are incapable of realtime decoding of 1920x1080 x264 content. That isn't necessarily important to what Wii aims to be, a game console, but it is an important checkbox for anything striving to be a comprehensive media solution.

PS3 has the best hardware base to pursue such a thing, but has no apparent strategy to do so beyond physical media playback. MS has the best software base to pursue it, what with most systems sold today already having MS software preloaded, giving xBox an advantage as a frontend.

On a related note, I was fairly flipped out when a Vista box was put on my home network, and it reported my MythTV backend by default in WMP and even listed the recordings. It wasn't able to play back any of the content, but it surprised me nonetheless.

President Chad predicts:...

[President Chad]

President Chad predicts that apple sucks worse than leeches: the macs are over priced and suckish and slow, and the iPods and the iPhone are only good as paperweights after a week of use. and itunes is WAAAAAAAAYYY overpriced!

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[Andtalath]

One of these days I know that I will stop seeing bashers going on about only a single mouse button on apples products.
OSX has as good built-in support for normal mice as windows, and it ships with a mouse which has got two buttons.

The only proucts shipping with single-mouse buttons are their laptops, which all have nice enough work-arounds to not even notice it, at all.

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[arminw]

...I'm still waiting on TiVo like functionality before I get an Apple TV....

We took our older G4 mini to the living room and stuffed it into the cabinet the new 47" LCD sits on. Then we added an eye TV 250. We connected it to the satellite receiver. The mini also has a wireless keyboard and mouse from Logitech. The TV functions as a huge monitor at full resolution.

We can record programs from the satellite, play iTunes movies, and stream video over the network from a roomy HD connected to the Airport Extreme. It's a good use for an otherwise somewhat obsolete computer. Check e-bay prices.

confirmed...

[whopub]

From the summary:

Forrester is predicting that Apple will become the 'hub of the digital home by 2013'. Well, at least that bit confirms the 'taking crack' part of the summary...

The future is here?

[CopaceticOpus]

If I read this article correctly, in just 5 years I'll be able to spend $5000 on Apple hardware to do exactly what I do today with a basic PC and with an old Xbox running Xbox Media Center.

Apple innovates

[menace3society]

If Apple does this successfully, it will not be because they make a better AppleTV, a better AirTunes, or do an Apple version of XBox or any of that crap. It's because Apple will come up with some other way to govern digital content movement within the home that's better than what everyone else has.

I think it would end up being something like a digital cable box, where you can browse all the content available on every computer in your house from any of several 'output' locations. It won't plug directly into your iPod, because Apple wants people to auto-sync their iPods rather than manage them manually. It will probably integrate directly with your cable/fiber-optic TV service so you can use it to watch TV from you laptop while watching movies stored on your laptop on TV.

Or something like that, point is, it won't be like the stuff we've already seen, because we've also seen that the stuff that exists isn't compelling enough.

Mac hardware problems

[falconwolf]

And yet you're happy to buy Apple. How many replacement logic boards did some (several thousands) people's Powerbooks go through?

I have had two hardware problems with Macs. The first one was when the floppy drive on a Mac SE30 I bought used in 1992 failed in 2000. I had it 8 years without a problem, that is other than it not being expandable. The second problem was when a Power Macintosh 7300/200 I bought a couple of months later used refused to bootup in 2006. I used it 6 years. I got 2 used Macs that lasted years.

On the other hand I bought 3 new PCs, two with Windows and one with Linux preinstalled, and the mobo died on each one in the first year, and the hdd on the Windows PCs died within a few months. I have not had hardware trouble on only one PC I bought new. Unfortunately it has a DEC Alpha CPU and though it runs Windows NT4, and Redhat Linux, I could only install a few Windows programs on it.

Two used Macs lasted me years whereas 3 new PCs had hardware fail in the first year.

Falcon

Re:Mac hardware problems

[mdwh2]

Wait - you do realise that Macs and PCs use the same kinds of hard disk?

You do also realise that there is more than one make of PC motherboard, so your anecdotal "evidence" is useless without knowing which manufacturer it was?

Anyway, my old Amigas lasted years longer than your Macs, without fault.

Re:Mac hardware problems

[falconwolf]

Wait - you do realise that Macs and PCs use the same kinds of hard disk?

The same type but not the same manufacturer and some are better than others.

You do also realise that there is more than one make of PC motherboard, so your anecdotal "evidence" is useless without knowing which manufacturer it was?

So what, you said I was happy with Apple as if PC were better. I point out I've had Mac hardware last years without problems but had hardware problems with 3 out of 4 PCs.

Falcon

Re:Mac hardware problems

[mdwh2]

The same type but not the same manufacturer and some are better than others.

I'm curious - is this a type and manufacturer that is unavailable for PCs?

I point out I've had Mac hardware last years without problems but had hardware problems with 3 out of 4 PCs.

I've had no problem with my Intel motherboards, but I once had a non-Intel one die after several years. So I'd better not get a Mac, by that logic.

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[code4fun]

I actually converted my Mini from a desktop to an entertainment box since my laptop became my desktop. I have the audio output hooked up to my stereo and the video drives my LCD TV. This replaced my DVD player.

I'm aware of TiVo-like hacks for the Mini and is a popular alternative. I thought about getting one of those TV tuners, but I was under the impression that they only decode analog signals and over the air HD. This will all be obsolete when everything turns digital in 2009.

Re:What part of "home market" don't you understand

[mdwh2]

iTunes and the iPod have been successful because of the public perception that they just work

All products just work - if it doesn't work, I take it back and get a refund. What sort of products have Apple been peddling, that just working is now seen as a good thing for their products?

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[toddestan]

The only proucts shipping with single-mouse buttons are their laptops, which all have nice enough work-arounds to not even notice it, at all.

I like how even you call them "work-arounds". Why not simply put the two physical buttons there and be done with it?

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[arminw]

....that they only decode analog signals and over the air HD.....

The Eye TV 250 plus we have will receive HDTV (ATSC) over the air or QAM cable (unencrypted) through its Antenna input. It will also process analog signals through its S-Video or composite inputs. This latter is the method we use to record the satellite programs. The audio connects to the stereo amplifier. We do not yet have a true hi-def signal source, such as a blu-ray, to take advantage of the full 1080P capability of the LCD monitor. The picture from the mini-250 combination and from the mini's DVD player is excellent. We have regular a regular DVD-VHS combo player we use most of the time for watching movies.

The mini does however display its screen and appropriate still pictures in that maximum resolution, either via the computer monitor or HDMI connection. We use the monitor connection, because for some reason, the mini cannot always detect the HDMI setup properly upon waking up. We use OSX10.5.2

The 250 processes these inputs in its own hardware into MPEG format and sends this live to the mini via a USB connection for it to display or record them on its disk. A one hour TV show from our satellite receiver needs about 1.5GB of disk space. It will export the recordings to iTunes/iPod format. The mini will also stream the recorded video over our network to other Macs.

Re:What part of "home market" don't you understand

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you being a retard on purpose, or can you just not help it?

Article is wrong

[AngryDill]

The article is wrong but could easily be corrected:

s/Apple/Microsoft/g

Within 5 years, MS will completely dominate the entertainment electronics biz with its XBOX/Zune/Windows Media Center; just like they dominate eveything else on the damned planet.

It's never a sound business plan to be a Microsoft competitor. Once you're in the Borg's sites, you are toast!

-a.d.-

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[kloppe]

I function much better with the (last-gen) multitouch trackpad than I ever did with two buttons and a clit/regular trackpad. All I ever use the button for is dragging; I can click, right-click, and scroll without ever having to do anything more than touch the trackpad.

I know some people* will dismiss this as RDF, but really, go to an Apple store and give it a try. You might be pleasantly suprised.

(For the record, I also use a Logitech MX1000)

* Apple antiboys? Artie MacStrawman fanboys?

Re:I for one welcome our new over 1 button overloa

[Anonymous Coward]

Because nobody would ever need more than 1 button on a mouse, nobody would ever need more than 1 button on a TV remote. Haha, I never thought of it that way. That surely shifts my opinions. Only one button on a TV remote.. now that would definitely be interesting.

Re:What part of "home market" don't you understand

[mdwh2]

Nope, I'm just smug that I can get my non-Apple products to work, unlike the fanboys who thing that a working product is the pinnacle of achievement.

Re:What part of "home market" don't you understand

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that answers it, then.

uh huh, Brian Hatoff

[Brian_Hatoff]

sounds about right. - Brian Hatoff