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Microsoft Free, One Year Later
madgreek writes "Last year I wrote of my switch from XP to Ubuntu at work. Now a year later, I am back to reflect on one year of being extremely productive at work using (almost) nothing but open source software in a Microsoft world."
I'm sure that many people will point at his failures (IE6 for some activeX websites & visio) as proof that linux is still not ready for the desktop. But these apps aren't available for the Mac either & few are suggesting OS X is not ready for the desktop.
Unfortunately, what's preventing business's adopting Linux or OS X is the fact that the various 'solution providers' & VARs make more money reselling Microsoft products.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Linux has a Visio Clone: Kvivio. Import the Cisco Symbols from DIA and you are all set.
... a computer.
Film at 11.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
I really fail to grasp why corporations (NOT individuals) fail to understand the ramifications of such EULAs and MS software contracts.
Negotiating a seat deal with MS leads to a very nasty possible outcome: invasion by Business Software Alliance. If you refuse, you invalidate all your licenses... and they always find something "illegal". It's one thing to switch because of some perceived wrong or being high and mighty, but a corporation is a corporation. When it comes to software, they literally open themselves up for heavy liability if they accept MS and other COTS software.
GPL means something else too: if you dont create software, you can ignore any "bad side effects". Only violators who refuse to share source are gone after. Usage is truly free of legal ramifications.
Protip: You're not the first person to use linux for a whole year.
*Gasp*
Then go install OpenOffice on your vista box and discover that it can read more document formats (and more variations on MS's own formats) thatn MS's software can.
We used to use Windows at our corporation + only open source programs. It was quite natural to move from Windows to Ubuntu, because it was the only commercial program that we were using. We have been happy since. No license hazzle.
the audio skipping sounds related to a pulseaudio problem people were having.
Updating to the latest kernel in hardy-proposed fixed that for me.
... and my coworkers still have no idea that I switched to free software.
You missed the part where he is running KDE, not Gnome. KDE is a more mature environment in almost every way (accessibility being one of the notable exceptions, I use Gnome on tablet PCs for its better onscreen keyboard and cursor manipulation functions).
I suppose all the 'Year of Linux' people will come out and say 'This is the year of Linux' and so on and so fourth.
Linux has had many years, and for what it has been up against, an illegal government coerced monopoly with more and more stress being put on it from every direction, it has not disappointed me in the slightest. With a dignity I hope that I have a tenth of when I die, Linux users and Linux developers have fought, and some died defending the vision of Linux and the FSF to preserve a future where some of us still do control how our computers are used.
To that end, every year Linux stays alive and relevant is the year of Linux. You see, Linux is fighting constantly a war against complete eradication. Not just Microsoft, but many software vendors, hardware makers, governments, and yes, a malevolent user base hate Linux, and every minute of every day seek to find ways of eradicating Linux from this world. A world where Linux is quarantined into certain sectors like server environment, is a path to extinction like Netware.
As far as Linux in the social arena. Linux as a social movement in its aspect as a social reform movement need not die out. In the Internet world, Linux is a symbol of transparency, of honest behavior, and accountability. Without Linux we would all be staring at a dark Palladium filled future.
So, in the name of the secular Linux social movement for transparency, property rights, freedom of speech and what not. Try and see what you can do to prevent Linux the OS from going into that quite good night. Develop. Write code, fix drivers, create new ideas. That driver for that hardware, that new application may be the driver or the program that changes history.
Yes there are aspects of Linux that are difficult. So, lets make sure this year isn't the last year of Linux, the year Linux became as obscure as DR-DOS, and Amiga, and the Z80. because, I'm sorry, but some things have to be fought for.
I find Linux more capable on the Desktop than Microsoft. There are often times when MS's (using XP) internal burning software is inadequate - like burning images. I don't know if it's fixed yet, but for a long time XP just would not burn an image with its built in software and you had to use something like Nero. Never had a problem burning an image running any linux distro. Same with mounting .iso right from the harddrive as a cd-rom. It usually required some pay-for software (Alcohol 120%) in Windows, while a 2 minute search yield a few command lines to do it in Ubuntu. I know I'd rather save the money.
A typical mainstream Linux distro is ready. It's often superior in many ways to MS, as MS seems to deliberately makes their OS do almost nothing useful beyond the basics it seems (or was it that Monopoly ruling that caused this?) It's now just 3rd party apps for most people. Web Browsing has reversed itself (there are enough people who wouldn't switch from Firefox due to plug-ins they can't get in IE).
On the Corporate Level, solution providers are slow to change if they're an MS only shop. I even know the university/college level has problems. Blackboard and other such garbage.
I suspect the oncoming economic shitstorm may finally get corporations to really tighten their belts and that company-wide OS licenses may just not fit in the budget anymore looking ahead 5 years in some places. I just hope the current/next generation of purchase managers learns from the past and looks to do away with vendor lock-in in so many areas as much as possible.
A two minute search on Google yields CDBurnerXP as a freeware CD burning tool and Daemon tools as an image mounting tool for Windows.
It might not be free as in speech, but it sure is free as in beer.
Jean-Francois Im's blog
I'll keep that in mind for the next time my girlfriend have a "headache".
"I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
It's not capitalism at all. It's binary blobs in the kernel. The two are orthogonal -- plenty of very profit-driven companies have discovered that it is useful to have Linux support, and it is far less work to do so when you release source and let the community maintain it. Oh, and the drivers end up better, too.
Oh, and this is just hilarious: The wireless card stops running after 2 hours. Ubuntu makes a fine server, but geeze does it suck cocks as a desktop. WTF? Why does your desktop have a wireless card?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Google for "read ISO Windows" gave this link as the first hit. It has a link to an ISO mounting utility from Microsoft:
http://weblogs.asp.net/pleloup/archive/2004/01/15/58918.aspx
Personally I'm very wary of installing random non-open-source apps on my desktop. I feel a lot better about something that is in the main Debian repository and more or less gpl compatible.
Hell, check out that daemon tools page you linked:
"Dear DAEMON Community,
it come to our attention that someone released a fake DT PRO version that is
contaminated with trojans and viruses, among the fact it is only a DT Lite and
not a PRO version!
We cant underscore enough how important it is that you always download from our
official sites and affiliates!
Nowadays, and with the popularity of DAEMON Tools, it is not unusual to see such
attempts to harm others (and, after all, also our reputation).
Rest assured: we double-check all uploads to our official sites and frequently check
them further to make sure you get no harmfull viruses/trojans!"
Frankly just googling and then downloading stuff that looks like it could help is bound to lead to a malware infested computer. One of the very clear things that good Linux distros have over Windows is the use of a centralized software repository.
"Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness." --Eric Blair
few are suggesting OS X is not ready for the desktop
While I wouldn't say that OSX isn't ready for the desktop, I would say it might not be ready for the corporate desktop.
One of the places Microsoft has put a lot of effort is into large-scale enterprise systems management. Features of Windows like Active Directory, Group Policy, WSUS, etc are what corporate clients really care about. They want to be able to easily and centrally manage users, permissions, operating system updates, and software restrictions. Unless/until there are tools that allow you to do these kinds of things with OSX and Linux, I think you'll see some hesitation on the part of large corporations.
I know you can do some of this stuff for Linux (user management with LDAP, customized package repos, etc) but I don't know about OSX. I do know however that there is a big difference between "ready for the desktop" and "ready for the corporate desktop".
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
/)
A major problem is that many companies have aging Access / Visual Basic applications and other custom made applications that are tied to Windows. WINE is an option of course, but some of them are probably so badly programmed that even Windows have problems running them...
Unfortunately, what's preventing business's adopting Linux or OS X is the fact that the various 'solution providers' & VARs make more money reselling Microsoft products.
It's not just the Microsoft products that keep businesses using Microsoft products...it's the business processes that are wrapped around the existing software. Upgrades are expensive, but less expensive than conversions to new software (and processes). There are also costs (and questions) regarding conversion of legacy data.
Until businesses can migrate to systems that are agnostic to specific processes (and applications) , it will be difficult to show a positive return on investment for the large expense.
You can do it with OS X server if you so wish.
In all honesty though, neither Linux nor OS X is really that great in a corporate environment (I'm in a design house - a lot of Mac systems). There's too much mucking around trying to get things to work. At least windows has all the stuff prepared and integrated and ready to roll. I haven't found (haven't really looked either) a distro that integrates in a server/client set-up like this yet. If there was one I might well go to it.
Me failed English...
FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
A lot of warehouse computers use wireless because of cabling issues. It's not that uncommon.
Me failed English...
FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
Funny, a friend of mine had a similar experience with XP SP2 the other day. After it fell over he tried to reinstall it. Turns out windows didn't include the drivers for his network card, sound card, video card etc... and since this is a a rather old box he couldn't find the CDs with all the drivers on them. Kinda sucks when you can't get on the net to search for them. Anyway, I gave him an Ubuntu CD and it booted fine , got him on the internet without installing a thing, and allowed him to download the drivers he needed to his ipod (the guy is addicted to his windows games ). After 48 hours since the first attempt at installing windows he had his system back up an running, with a little help from ubuntu.
Of course he probably has a couple of pets on the thing now seeing that it took him quite a while to even get it into a state where it would accept updates and we all have external IPs.
For reference, on the latest Ubuntu I have my 3D acceleration ( on both screens ) and wireless on the laptop out of the box. My main gripe is the flash plugin for firefox crashing every now and then, but I'm guessing that is really adobe's fault.
Knowledge is power:
- Windows Reskits have cdburn.exe and dvdburn.exe - very capable tools for recording media
- D-Tools is free and is an excellent tool
I have multiple machines running Linux and Windows (this particular laptop I am posting a reply from is a Linux only Thinkpad) and Linux is not really more desktop capable. I am playing the devil's advocate here: good for you if you managed to figure out that Linux works better for you.
It doesn't work better for everyone. I need Photoshop (Sorry, I am not too bright to use GIMP), I need a couple of my RTS games that I play casually and I need my Windows Rhapsody client. I use wine for Photoshop, Caesar3 and I use Vmware + Windows 2000 for Rhapsody. I also need Windows to watch streaming Netflix and I'll be creating an XP image in the near future just for Netflix (Netflix supports only WinXP and higher).
So now do you get an idea? Linux isn't desktop ready because a majority of the rest of the world isn't ready for Linux. This is a 100% Linux laptop and still I need to rely on wine and Vmware to use the applications I really want/need.
My first Linux distribution was Redhat 5.2 and it's been quite a journey - Ubuntu 8.04 for me is the closest I've seen to a perfect Linux desktop but as much as I love it and use workarounds to keep using it fulltime, the distribution isn't there yet. Linux *isn't* there yet. I want it to be and I'll rejoice the day I have to stop using my workarounds.
I love using my Linux laptop over my windows machines at home (one's a high end gaming machine, the other's a pretty decent Windows Media Center box) and I love using my Linux machines at work (5 boxes running Linux and one Windows notebook) but I do keep windows around for Windows does tasks that Linux cannot do for me yet.
I usually bash Microsoft and Windows freely but I also do acknowledge Linux's shortcomings. If you believe otherwise, well, there is this certain cliche about ignorance and bliss...
I also gave up windows entirely around the first of this year. I had been running debian on one system and windows on the laptop up to that point, but more and more I was using debian for almost everything. Visio was a big deal for me too, but I am getting used to using Dia. Visio is better, there is no doubt, but Dia is adequate, and I am slowly converting all my drawings to Dia. I sure wish there was something that could read .vsd files.
The other thing that kept me on windows so long was that I could not get my work's VPN to work on linux, but I was trying to get it going on Fedora. It seems to work ok on Ubuntu. Thankfully, the wireless drivers also work well on ubuntu, so at this point, I have very little need for windows.
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
Before, I used IE only to access a major Philippine bank online. But only a couple of months ago, it has now become accessible to Firefox in Linux. It seems more big companies are taking note of alternatives to Microsoft here in the Philippines.
If you want to compare raw out-of-the-box functionality, then I agree with you-- a default no-frills XP install is practically useless compared to the average default Linux install, which mostly gives you what you need, though there are exceptions.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
It might have to do something with the fact that I am a non-native speaker of the language but I read the title thrice...
/sharonstone> I kid.
Was it:
1. Microsoft Free (a year ago Microsoft was released from prison after making a deal with DA which included the real scoop behind flying chairs)
2. Microsoft Free as in Pick Your Free Tibet Joke
From the article, towards the end he mentions he uses XP and enjoys it as well but also mentions All I can say is that for the last year, I have been using Open Source exclusively and I am loving it!...
Quick, someone hire him?
I switched over to Linux around SuSE 6.0 days and to be honest I have never looked back. I now use Linux 100% at work and at home after doing a LPIC-101/102 course at my local college. This leads me into another funny story were I now have a whole branch of the company were I work at now running on Linux. The company has a Windows/OSX/Unix technical support contractor and because Linux has been so rock solid for us he didn't even know we had a branch here. This was simply because no one has ever rang him for help (and yes I have been away for weeks at a time).
From the private journal of madgreek:
... Just six more hours... Maybe I can pass the time by playing a fun, modern (and by "modern" I mean something slightly newer than nethack) game on my Linux bo- Uh.. Nevermind. I'll just talk to Eliza in emacs until this cruel, horrible torture is over.
Day 365, "Microsoft-Free":
I'm so glad this sham is over. I can't *wait* to get back to using a fully-featured OS with productivity applications capable of handling actual, real-life, grownup business needs.
Oh, and I can't wait until I don't have to f-ing hack my own drivers for new "cutting-edge" (and by "cutting-edge" I mean 2-year-old, in common use my the majority of PC users) hardware.
To be honest, I actually didn't even *use* Linux except to boot, start a VM, and run Windows to actually get the Grown-Up Work done for the last nine months.
Exactly. A Linux distribution is the OS plus userland applications.
The Linux OS itself doesn't provide any of the functionality the GP talks about.
Amnesty International
He's just lucky that his company hasn't discovered Sharepoint yet. Once every important document that you need is locked up on a sharepoint server, than even OpenOffice isn't enough to work on them properly.
It's Microsoft's best lock-in tool in years.
Because he has absolutely no idea what he is doing. I'm sure his wireless card drops his connections because he lives in an apartment building with 30 routers all within 20 feet, each fighting for the same 11 channels. And what's up with not getting two monitors going? You really have to struggle to mess that up. Maybe he's using some Acer POS monitor that is semi-defective (I've had that problem) or trying to do it under VESA emulation. If you get a $40 Nvidia card with dual heads, you can install the Nvidia driver pretty easily. If you are clueless, you can let the driver do a virtual screen and run two monitors that way. Or if you have more than a handful of neurons, you can set up your Nvidia card as two separate devices and dual monitors can be supported just like with an iMac (for proof, I've posted the relevant part of my xorg.conf file as a reply to myself with my Karma bonus turned off). Also, gnome is stable. My semi-computer literate brother has been using gnome with breezy badger for about 2 years now. He hasn't had any problems. Basically, the GP is either trolling or has been proactive about hosing his otherwise good system. Even lifelong windows users who don't give a flip about *nix can switch to ubuntu without any effect on PRODUCTIVITY. I've seen it done more than once with old computers. The only people who should have a problem are gamers (voiding the productivity argument), ms windows developers, and corporates who get told what they can and can't run on their desktops.
Just callin' it like I see it.
DT Pro is the version that you have to pay for, thus getting it for free from some shady website should at least make you think twice, in the same way that you probably shouldn't download kernel sources from untrusted websites without checking the MD5/SHA checksum.
I haven't been infested with malware in the last decade, although this is only anecdotal evidence.
It is indeed convenient for installing various software packages --- which is sorely lacking in Windows --- although the usage of a centralized software repository does not guarantee that the binaries will be free of defects/malware either, since someone could poison the upstream source of software(which already happened in the past) and the maintainer would have no clue.
Jean-Francois Im's blog
And how joyous it would have been if IE were not so tightly integrated with Windows following that theory.
However, wanting certain capabilities bundled with the OS is not necessarily asking for it being integrated with the OS.
Wooh, this is news.
Next week, how I used Macs since 2003 at work.
What a revolution !
Yeah I see what you mean. To give a couple (better) examples: a lot of hot-desking environments use wireless. Open plan area's for call centres. I've seen a lot of cube farms using it in rented buildings because they were not permitted to run cabling. Was just that the first thing that came to mind was a warehouse I once worked in.
Me failed English...
FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
it come to our attention that someone released a fake DT PRO version that is contaminated with trojans and viruses, among the fact it is only a DT Lite and not a PRO version!
Tried any bootleg copies of Microsoft compatable software lately? In Linux, malware is the exception. In Windows, you better have your AV up to date as malware, trojans, and viruses is pretty much standard on the shady side of town.
The truth shall set you free!
Linux *isn't* there yet.
Are you implying something is there yet? From what I've seen, Apple is closer to "there" than MS. Especially with Vista. MS may be close, but they are headed away from target. At least Linux and Apple are headed in the right direction.
The truth shall set you free!
Well in my case it's because the kids get XP boxes, so they can run their damn games, and they have to have Administrator privileges to install and run them....so, naturally, they download trojans and spyware and all sorts of evil cruft, and sure as death and taxes the machine gronks every few months.
/home.
My choices are:
(1) Get the 13-year-old to become a qualified Microsoft system admin (snrk! hah!).
(2) Become one myself (like I've got nothing better to do).
(3) Wipe the drive and reinstall every so often.
Thanks, Microsoft and partners (e.g. game developers), for a truly brainless security model.
BTW, please don't bother telling me how if I only took off six months to learn all about Windows I could manage this without pain. I've got a regular job, thanks. Plus I don't have to learn anything to turn 'em loose on my Ubuntu box, because they can install and run anything they like -- Google browser bars, random Java crap -- but the worst they can do is screw up their own home directory and maybe lock the machine up and make me reboot it and run fsck on
Yes. The Civic is cheap, fuel-efficient, probably more reliable than the BMW these days, and gets me from A to B without making a fuss about it. Why would I want the more expensive BMW? For a few extra toys? Fuck that.
Of course in this analogy the Civic is Linux and the BMW is Windows (though I believe everything I said is true about Hondas and BMWs too). I do have a real-life anecdote though to make this post more meaningful.
The Linux desktop experience today in 2008 has the appeal, driver support, and aesthetics of Windows 98. Oh wait, Win98 did have driver support.I got two pieces of new hardware recently. A Kodak EasyShare P850 digital camera and an Epson Stylus E66 printer. Neither is exactly new, but the Kodak is still available first-hand.
The Kodak was an easy one. The instructions for Windows entailed installing the software FIRST (bad things can happen if you plug it in first apparently) and then doing stuff with the camera. Under Linux, installation involved plugging in the camera. Kubuntu detected the camera, and offered to start up digiKam for me so I could get the pictures. Worked first time.
The printer was a slightly more involved issue. My mum and the seller (both Windows people) were fussing about drivers. They knew the CD only included Windows drivers, but I ended up with an e-mail linking me to the website, where one or both thought I may find Linux drivers. As I expected, nothing was present (only Windows drivers, not even Mac OS X drivers, shame on Epson). So I plugged it in, went through drivers in KControl, found the printer, selected Epson Stylus E66 drivers, gave the printer a name, and found that it now worked.
The lesson I've learned with all this is that Linux either works with your hardware, or it doesn't. There's no driver installation or anything. It it works, it works right away. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work and won't work until it's in the kernel. So it's either perfect usability, or no usability at all. My idea of hell being forever made to try and get non-kernel supported hardware working with Linux. It's that bad.
An OS with no bundled applications is rather useless from an end users point of view.
Most people expect the OS to come bundled and pre-configured with applications like a window-manager, file-manager, text-editor, http-reader, cd/dvd-tools, other file-managing tools (copy, move, etc), configuration-managers, tcp/ip-stack, bluetooth-stack, etc, etc.
Why does Windows come with less powerful applications bundled than most other OS's, then?
MS also sell (or license, which isn't exactly the same) applications, which is why they only bundle the minimum of what they can get away with while still keeping competitors at bay.
If you want to have full productivity using Windows, they want you to also pay for the applications needed for this.
A free OS bundle doesn't need to keep the full functionality back in order so sell other software.
They can ship with everything needed for full productivity bundled.
/.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
I have been M$ free for many years. I used to run Linux on my desktop but now, because I move from country to country a lot, I switched to a laptop and chose a MacBook Pro. I have no problems in staying M$ free but I think I will stick with OSX in the future rather than return to Linux. I can still do all the Linux stuff, including RTS games etc. that people say do not exist (although I prefer games like Civ and Neverwinter Nights). I can also get all my work done without trouble.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Kivio is NOT capable of reading/writing visio file format? In fact, none of the "visio clones" can do that. If OOA was smart, this is the one place that they would expand some effort. It is SORELY lacking. In fact, any of the companies that are pushing OOA, would do well to decode the format, and then write a GPL (or berkley) library for interacting with said format. The clones would incorporate that quickly, and Sun would most likely jump on creating a clone as well.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Whats preventing many businesses (larger firms) is that most have a huge amount of software written in-house.
Porting that in a live business environment would be a nightmare (though there would be the benefit of not having to "upgrade" to the new version of windows every time it comes up - enough work there...)
I am very sucseptible to "let's have another drink"
As far as I can get the applications I want to run with WINE, I consider Linux desktop ready. WINE is technically a 3rd party app but easily enough available. Ubuntu actually has it as part of the distribution.
C - the footgun of programming languages
Upgrades are expensive, but less expensive than conversions to new software (and processes). There are also costs (and questions) regarding conversion of legacy data.
There is some of that, though I'd argue that it's ultimately more expensive long term to stay locked in at the process level. Data conversion, I assume you mean file format conversion. Access db's, linked spreadsheets, that kind of thing. Those can be tricky. Luckily the trend toward the browser as a software front end is making that less of an issue.
I've used Ubuntu almost exclusively at home with no problems exchanging data with MS users. The biggest obstacle to large scale utilization of Linux commodity desktops in the enterprise that I see is just a lack of understanding. Linux doesn't have much of an ad budget right now. There will still be some users who need Windows only software for task specific applications which can be managed with a Windows kiosk here and there and some users will prefer Mac. But staying locked in to the Windows/Office/Outlook on every desktop these days is just insane. I think a lot of companies do it simply because the devil they know is better than the devil they don't know.
I'm wondering how practical it would be to do away with internal networks all together? Be interesting to try. Where the local network is nothing but a pipeline to the internet and print sharing. All the traditional network services are provided as web services. File storage, productivity, collaboration, messaging, email. Theoretically that would allow you to connect any client OS with far less of the client management overhead. We're not really that far from that now when you think about it. I could see a lot of advantages. Users could interact with the business environment the same way from anywhere. The office, home, Starbucks...wouldn't matter. Windows, Linux, Mac...wouldn't matter. Then you could treat every client as dirty, and with Windows that's a pretty safe assumption.
Until businesses can migrate to systems that are agnostic to specific processes (and applications)
That's not that hard, either. Just takes commitment to move that direction. To make your business environment OS agnostic. The technical steps aren't that hard anymore. Just seems like we're duplicating a lot of effort right now in enterprise networks.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
It is also possible to authenticate against an open ldap server (actually osx uses open ldap) and setup kerberos. The LDAP schema (i suck with ldap) has two fields that are used to push down policies. Apple uses an XML format to describe all the policies which can be used even without OS X server.
The reason I feel that OS X is not ready for big environments is that it's inflexible. You can only hack around so many "features". For instance, we had a hack that's worked for 10.4 to bind to a Novell eDir server on campus without using Novell's schema changes for Mac support. We do not control the Novell servers. However, this appears to be broken in Leopard (10.5).
For the most part, we've had good luck migrating from a windows and mac environment to Mac only. I work for the computer science department at a university. I did not make the decision to migrate as I would have chosen BSD or maybe Linux based on our needs.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
Good point. The linux community needs to target startups. If the businesses start with linux, maybe they'll get tied to FOSS. This will create a demand for linux software, and we might see replacements for some of the aging windows software so many businesses use.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
is there a program that works like yum / apt under windows?
If there is, it would be rather pointless since the whole basis of yum/apt etc. is the large trusted respositories that they rely on, and these do not exist for windows software. I suppose there's no reason though why a 'trusted' company (Mozilla foundation?) shouldn't set up Windows repositories of some sort containing all the important FOSS stuff.
This is a 100% Linux laptop and still I need to rely on wine and Vmware to use the applications I really want/need.
That's all very well for you, but I still need to rely on Linux for my audio software, which just plain doesn't work in Windows. So, Windows isn't ready for the desktop either.
If you want to "taste a problem" then try converting a corporation to Linux desktops (as opposed to say running a corporate web server). There is a reason it's called "vendor lock-in". Not only do you have to retrain thousands of people you also need to manage user access as good as windows for large numbers of people quickly with fine granuality. This is before you even think of rewriting tens (if not hundreds) of millions of lines of windows style glue.
"Linux can and does work well in a corporate environment."
Agreed (or at least it does where I work), however it's still along way from breaking the MS 'lock' on the corporate desktop and there doesn't seem to be any 'killer app' to drive the corporates toward a Linux desktop (unless your counting Vista). .
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I think if that was the only thing keeping me on MS's suckware, I would find a way around it.
The main reason businesses run Windows is the same exact reason most home owners run Windows, because it is the default OS. They never give it much consideration to begin with, it's just what comes in the box.
The fact that this monopoly has been allowed to continue all these years is outrageous, really. If 90% of people owned Fords, it would mean that either Fords are way better or that they have unfair competitive advantage.
The Microsoft monopoly in the OS market is the single greatest problem in technology today and the negative effects of the monopoly cascades in every direction.
Visio became popular, not based so much on its merits, which I'm sure it's a fine piece of software, but more because MS leverages the Windows monopoly to push software of every sort. People then used Visio and the closed, proprietary formats of Visio and now because they have so much work stored in these formats it is a deterrent to considering an alternative OS. The problem comes full circle.
So there's my anti-Microsoft rant for the day
FAQs are evil.
I started using GNU/Linux nearly 6 years ago. I had dabbled occasionally before that, but went back to Win2000, and when I first installed there were odd times when I dual booted into Windows on my old hard drive (mobile phone software, Half-Life 2 etc.).
:)
Now, I use GNU/Linux exclusively. Everything I do at university I do on Linux (and every single maths lecturer at Edinburgh University, or Heriot Watt University - also in Edinburgh - uses Linux). When I did my master's degree in Quantitative Genetics I never used or needed Windows. In my PhD I'm looking at the role of badgers and tuberculosis in cattle, and I use Linux, mostly doing simulations in C. The one time I needed a program that was Windows only (for calculating inbreeding coefficients), it worked perfectly in Wine. Even down to the same error message
So that covers being Microsoft free at work and university. How about home and non-work stuff?
I can use the web no problem, flash works (there's the odd time it fails, but I hardly notice), email, IRC, etc. are fine. I can play all my DVDs, CDs, music, anime collection, episodes of House I downloaded with Bittorrent. Admittedly the games front isn't very exciting, but I can still play a few reasonably fun games, I got Half-Life 2 working (granted buggily), and my Wii covers the rest. I'm not sure what else I need it for, but when I do need to do something I can usually find a Linux solution.
My flatmate used his Linux laptop to generate a 3d-movie from scratch to use as the menu for a horror film he took part it. All the editing for the movie was done in Linux. He's also pretty good with the Gimp, but I've never used it for anything particularly interesting so I can't comment.
Result: after 5 years, my knowledge of the command line is still fairly minimal, other than for re-encoding the odd movie into a VCD for a friend, and editing some config files. Things still go wrong, but I've never had a problem I couldn't fix, provided it was fixable (forums are brilliant), and my flatmates helped me at first when I got stuck. My completely non-techy fiancée uses my computer, and finds GNOME's interface easy to use. I am officially Microsoft free, and I don't look back. Also I build my own computer from components, so no Microsoft tax.
So yes, I think it's perfectly possible. It needs some patience though, and help from friends. Pre-installed Linux is definitely a good thing. However, if you gave a completely non-techy person a computer without Windows installed, and asked them to set it up themselves from scratch, they might find it difficult too.
I run my own translation agency, and have not used a Microsoft product for 8 years. Everything I need is available to me in Free/Open Source alternatives, and, I am more productive, and have lower overhead. I used Fedora/RH for about 6 years, then switched to Ubuntu, but now use my in-house selfrolled distro (which is also, of course, available to the public), Linguas OS - gnu/linux for translators (www.linguasos.org). I wouldn't use Microsoft of they paid me to do so. Just the time I save not dealing with viruses, malware, crashes and other stupidity probably saves me thousands of dollars (and countless headaches) a year.
-- tonybaldwin.me
It's called win-get: http://windows-get.sourceforge.net/ Of course, I know nothing about it, since I use Linux, but, it does exist.
-- tonybaldwin.me
I tried switching to Ubuntu this year too and my results were different.
I was entirely unproductive in achieving any entertainment with games. WINE was a lot of work to get things playing and even then they didn't quite play correctly. Steam was a pain in the arse, so was WoW. I didn't even bother trying once Age of Conan came along.
On other applications, things were generally fine, I've kept Ubuntu running on basically a glorified Gmail + browsing box. I've also got a Mythbuntu PVR running. I still use BSD and Linux in server situations.
But for desktop, for me at least, if it's inconvenient for games, regardless over whether Microsoft is an evil empire or not.. it's just a no go as a Desktop OS. Games are what separate it, otherwise it's just a browser box and I can do that without a desktop at all.
Maybe other folks get more mileage out of Gimp vs Photoshop, though I doubt that too unfortunately, My take on Linux after all these years is still that the desktop experience unfortunately lacks.
Wishful thinking isn't cutting it. I wish it would.. er, okay now that's just going in circles.
??? My wife and I have exactly the same hardware. She runs XP and I run Linux. My machine performs as much as 4 or 5 times faster on a routine basis running the same apps (openoffice, firefox) or similar apps. I open applications and get right to work while she's left staring at a spinning cursor and waiting for her machine to stop locking up. Furthermore, her XP can't handle more than one or two applications running on the desktop, while I routinely run as many as 7 distinct applications while working without any noticable deterioration in performance at all. (It might help that I made my own light distro, with a fluxbox wm and other features that keep it light and fast).
-- tonybaldwin.me
for over a year now and I far prefer it to XP, even though XP did have many qualities I was comfortable with. I think the fundamental aspect of a Linux Desktop is that you have far greater absolute control over what is happening beneath the surface of the GUI. The only applications lacking in Linux are Indesign ( I have Scribus but there is no comparison) Photoshop and Dreamweaver and none of these have alternatives with the appropriate professional edge. Having said that I have been using photoshop and indesign in VMware and I think they work fine - there is a very slight decline in speed but this is made up for by the fact that Ubuntu boots in about One minute (when I do reboot it, I just hate to see that uptime number go down) and XP boots into VMware so quickly it's photons are in danger of hitting those from it's shutdown. Now that alone is worth the very tiny amount of technical effort require to set up VMware. I haven't migrated Dreamweaver yet - just so many tedious passwords and settings to work on - but I will.
Honourable mention must also go to the rather idiosyncratic but peerless MS Acess - the little database that could. Adobe Premier while a tad bloated is also rather useful and slightly better documented than the equally peerless cinelerra - which I do like but often feel you need a brain the size of Manhattan to use it. The only thing that prevents me turning our laptop all Linuxed-up-to-the-max is that it has a wifi that defeats human reason - had it working about twice so far and just got bored. Also my partner has an iTunes account (spits) and that particular worst-piece-of-garbage-ever-written has sadly no real substitute - Amarok needs an iTunes Store account but I guess chances of that monopoly breach are slim. And no, I won't be running iTunes in Vmware - I have telephone directories I could be reading.
I should also mention the unremitting geek-joy of remote desktopping my main pc from my tiny ipaq while lying in bed watching CSI and then running MS Access in Vmware (fortunately you can zoom in!).
Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
5? Informative? It's just FUD with a non sequitur example. Randomly downloading an executable and expecting it to be as advertised is not what this is about. He found free software for Windows, thus dismantling the OP's argument. What you did was to compare a software repository in Linux with anything randomly downloaded from the internet. That's not only inaccurate .. it's stupid.
Your example is furthermore flawed because if you'd downloaded DT from the original site (or any other repository you might trust, like Softpedia or FileForum) you wouldn't risk the trojan. There you have what you could call your precious "centralized repository". Add a rogue/unknown repository for, I don't know, MP3 support in Fedora and you're about as safe as you are downloading programs from the evil innertubes! Having a warning from the authors in the authors' site as an example of the benefits of "centralized software repository" in Linux vs freeware on the internet is *facepalm*. It's like saying communism is superior to capitalism because "it's centralized planning and thus perfectly safe and fun for the whole family". Yes. I can use stupid analogies too.
The "centralized software repository" you like is just convenience. Someone compiled software so you don't have to. It's not safe, nor is it for the greater good of the users. Don't find what you want/need in the main repo? You either do what the poor Windows users do and download a package from some evil random website, or compile yourself from some evil random website with sources. Difference being...?
Well, there is one thing. Microsoft isn't allowed to add too many freebies in it's OS because of monopoly allegations (Media Player in Europe for example). Linux just copies stuff they like from the Windows platforms and call it something funny//witty/similar and often get away with it. It's a "port" and not a "copy".
The OP argued about free software in Linux versus, what he believed, were only commercially available software in Windows. He's wrong, and your argument is too.
/* Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana */
I work on the UNIX team in a large corporation and I can't get even them to switch to a linux desktop.
It's like everyone is afraid of even looking at something they're not familiar with.
It's integrated into the OS and into many of its applications. Many things won't work without it. Like Windows Update, Steam, Active Desktop and just about any app that integrates IE to view webpages.
In most circles, modularity and code-reuse are considered *good* things.
You can't really remove it without crippling the rest of the system.
And how much stuff that depends on khtml or WebKit do you think would keep working if you just ripped them out ?
The "tightly bundled" argument is basically complaining because a piece of shared code is being used exactly in the way shared code is supposed to be. I fail to see why it is a valid complaint.
, since someone could poison the upstream source of software(which already happened in the past [slashdot.org]) and the maintainer would have no clue.
True, but once the upstream project discovers the problem the distro repo. maintainer can release the fixed version as an update, which will automatically apply to all users of their distro.
With random Windows apps I'd have to keep checking their websites or news sites myself to keep track of these issues, or any other security issues with the app. And then manually download it.
The current method adopted by many Windows apps of each having their own 'update manager' process running in the tray is not a sustainable in any way.
Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
"As far as I know, this is impossible in Linux, hence it's not business ready IMHO."
Just because "you" do not know how, does not mean it is impossible.
Actually there is not a single thing on your list that I cannot do without a single script
and a ldap server. Not only that but I can use your existing AD, oracle, postgres, mssql or
whatever else I decide to use to provide any functionality I want.
Got Code?
Remember when ppl would complain when asked to RTFM? now it's "I don't want to click the updater, or do a simple google search!" The biggest boon to Linux in the past 5 years is the support coming out of forums IMO.
"drink deeply the illusion of your safety"
If all you do is push around documents at work (word processing), write/answer email, and browse the web, then you can use anything you want as long as it's not a problem with your boss. However, many of us here on these boards do things more platform specific... whether it's admin a bunch of Linux servers or write/maintain Windows or OSX platform software. If you are tied to doing something more platform specific, it's just more work to install some-other-OS that you won't use except maybe as a host OS for some VM software that you'll use to run VMs of your platform. IT doesn't necessarily want to support you (or let you support yourself), either.
It would be "bad" for me to just decide to switch OSs at work for the fun of it and it would buy me practically nothing (in fact, it would probably result in a huge problem) even though we already use VMs for 100% of our 'real' work (I only use the host for word processing, email, and surfing the web). The 'badness' would come from our IT people having support issues and probably numerous issues with security assessments and such that the IT people are (ultimately) responsible for. It'd just be too much hassle and I'd be singled out as 'that ass who is trying to be self-cool by going against the grain'.
I actually just did the same thing about 4 weeks ago. I installed UBUNTU on my laptop just to see how much I could use it and avoid windows. My results: 1. One of my VPN connections doesn't work because a client does not exist for Linux (SonicWall) 2. Evolution Exchange Connector is absolutely horrible and unusable (it crashes constantly and locks up). Seems to me that this is the biggest obstacle to more general Linux use, I have to use Exchange and until I can effectively use it in Linux I cannot get away from Windows. (OWA in FireFox is just as bad, but maybe I could do the IE/Wine thing...) 3. I have not had the occasion to use Visio yet, but that will hurt when the time comes. 4. I had a very difficult time getting my wireless card working. However now that it works it is solid. But the things I needed to do to get it to work would be very intimidating for the average person. On the good side... I was very surprised at how easy it was to get things like RDP clients, plugins for FireFox( multimedia, FLash etc) and other things up and running. I like the overall feel of it it is very friendly and easy to use. I was able to find my way around quite easily. Thanks My 2c.
Can I write an article now, headlined: 'Microsoft free, ten years later' ? Seriously folks, it's been that long.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
Infra-Recorder,however, is the awesome. I high recommend it to all my friends who are still using legacy operating systems like windows.
These threads are always fun to read.
/rant
If an app crashes on a Windows box, it must be Windows fault. If it crashes on a l/unix box, it must be the app's fault.
If an app that runs on Windows has a price tag attached, it must be Windows fault. If an app that runs on l/unix has a price tag attached, the developer needs thier head checked.
If an app comes comes preinstalled in Windows it's bloat (and Microsoft's fault, even though most of the adware/shareware/freeware has nothing to do with them). If an app comes preinstalled with l/unix, it's a feature.
Yes, Windows is not free and it's not open source. When viewed purely as an OS, it certainly isn't perfect. But please, for the love of God, how is it Windows' fault that *any* other application is not free, and most app/security problems because of poor 3rd party coding? Yet every time this discussion rears its head, people trot out a list of free alternatives to applications that have absolutely nothing to do with Microsoft or Windows (as an operating system) as a reason for how much better thier lives are in Windows free world.
If anything, it's the community that should take the blame for the lack of free/open source software on Windows, not Microsoft.
*Disclaimer: I have nothing against either Windows or linux and use both. This rant courtesy of having had to work with some very rabid linux fanboys in the past. The kind that would regularly spend hours, or even days, fine tuning whatever shiny new app they'd discovered for thier linux box - and then turn around and use it as an excuse as to why thier actual work isn't done (and no, they were not sysadmins).
I've had a strange trip on finding what was 'there'. I went from Microsoft (dos to xp), to linux (ran the gauntlet over the years, redhat, fedora, gentoo, debain, ubuntu), and just last month found my sweet spot with apple.
I've actually explained OSx as a *nix that works as advertised. While ubuntu was almost flawless without messing with it, the key word there is almost. There were minor annoyances that were always floating to the surface. After switching to my mac, I've found that none of those are there. My sound works perfect, my wireless is perfect, my multiple monitor support is perfect, All my favorite apps exist on mac (including all my old linux apps), and mac has some great features ubuntu didn't have.
I'll still keep a linux workstation at home and keep up to date. Windows is gone from my house, I sold the last copy I had of it with my last computer. But going forward, I think I'm sticking with apple. Unless their DRM gets 100% unbearable.
Because he has absolutely no idea what he is doing. I'm sure his wireless card drops his connections because he lives in an apartment building with 30 routers all within 20 feet, each fighting for the same 11 channels.
Even though the rest of your answer was dead-on, I take issue with the part that I quoted.In my case I also have my media center / headless server connected via wireless because my dsl modem is next to my door (that's where the POTS line is), and I don't want to run cables on the ground/walls/under doors all over my house when it's much easier to just use wireless.
In any case, in my appartment building I have almost no wireless interference from other routers and I've always been able to use my internet connection to it's limits without any loss of signal quality.
So what I mean is, for some people it makes a lot of sense to use wireless, even if it is for a computer that never moves.
That, or I also "have no idea what I'm doing".
http://windows-get.sourceforge.net/
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=572739&cid=23649597
The problem is that nobody knows about it, and it doesn't come with Windows, and since it isn't iTunes or BonziBuddySpywareGetVideoPlayer2000, few will even be interested in it.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Years ago, when we said "operating system", we meant what today is called a "kernel". Of course, the OS came with enough utilities to organize and execute programs. And there were often extras thrown in.
Then software in general, and OS's in particular, became products that competed. This meant having lots of features became important to the vendors. "OS" came to mean as much, if not more, the stuff that goes around the kernel. When people ask "Is Linux ready for the desktop?" they aren't talking about the kernel, which has been excellent for many years. What they're really asking is, "Does any Linux distro add enough of the right features to make it usable for mass desktop usage?"
As you say, that's been true for years. In fact, you get more out of the box -- far more -- than you do in any proprietary system.
But, we've come full circle. We used to be focused on the hardware, because it was fabulously expensive. But now hardware is incredibly cheap, which recreates the problem: because it is cheap, there is lots of it, in great diversity. That means managing it is a big problem again.
Linux contributors do a positively amazing job at supporting the vast diversity of hardware out there that users might have, especially when you consider that the hardware vendors do this for Microsoft. But amazing is not the same as consistent enough for some newbie to grab a linux install CD and reliably experience open source bliss. Taking a kernel upgrade from your distro often means having something break, which might mean messing with BIOS tables, or building your own custom kernel, or doing without. The first two aren't that hard to do technically, but most users without support will do without and be unhappy.
As it stands, there is no reason an enterprise couldn't go Linux on the desktop, so long as it regulated the hardware in use so it has good Linux support, or that they efficiently deal with any problems that come up. Likewise, consumers who buy Linux preinstalled from somebody like Dell ought to be pretty happy with it. But the dominant user model, where somebody downloads the installers and puts it on their own machine, is not a good one for most users.
Until vendors of hardware make Linux a priority, there are only three ways that Linux works on a desktop: (1) A sophisticated Linux user doing self-support; (2) An IT department with a small number of standardized hardware configurations; (3) Linux preinstalls supported by the manufacturer.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Nope. And, the fact that you have been modded "troll" proves it.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Dev 2: Great idea! Hey, in the next version lets combine the chat client and registry editor!
Dev 1: Oh, and the speech recognition with the disk defragger!
Dev 2: Now that's slick coding! Let's stay late and brainstorm again tomorrow!
Dev 1: Aw man, I can't stay late tomorrow, I have to go home and combine my car and my clothes dryer.
Dev 2: Oh that is gonna be so badass! I have to
stop by and see it on the weekend!
Also you might want to check the definition of modularity. A quick Google search turned up this: A quality of a system where it consists of various parts which separate cleanly and fit together well. High modularity costs some design time but pays back well through clarity, elegance, maintainability and flexibility. Separate cleanly. Can I separate the update functionality, or Active Desktop (ugh) from IE?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
If your definition of "desktop-ready" is "works exactly like Windows", then no non-Windows OS will ever be there. There will always be Windows apps that will not work for Linux. This isn't a "shortcoming" of Linux, and it is not the job of developers to make Linux completely compatible with Windows applications.
Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
Ardour, and a bunch of softsynths. In particular, there is no Windows replacement for the softsynths, and nothing really like Ardour.
Windows will be ready for the desktop when (1) I can change my hardware to suit my needs without needing a new key, (2) I can install all of the applications I use on a daily basis from a single dialog, and keep using the system without performance issues while they install, (3) I can install a working OS on my thumbdrive along with my documents, and carry it with me when I travel to use on any PC, (4) the user interface achieves some semblance of consistency and usability, and (5) plugging in a new hardware device doesn't require that I load a special CD first.
Linux is ready - when will Windows be ready?
Better yet, compare the systems after a period of time of average use. I think we'd find the XP system starts degrading over time and normal use.
I think you missed his point. He wasn't saying it's not bloat, he was saying it probably has nothing to do with MS since, and I quote:
most of the adware/shareware/freeware has nothing to do with them
I mean, have you ever installed XP off a retail or corporate disc? There are virtually no apps installed. Most of the crap people complain about when they rant over free installs is actually installed by OEMs.
"I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
I find the centralized software repos to be one of the big turn offs for Linux. Most of the things in the repositories are stuff the average user has no knowledge of and almost no way to gain knowledge about.
Someone should look at downloads.com for a model of how to present software to end users. It has ratings and reviews from the cnet editors and visitors, screenshots of the products, they test the binaries for malware and offer multiple download sites usually including the makers of the software.
If something like this existed for Linux, it would go a long way to getting more people on board.
My ubuntu installs all updated to RC1 of Firefox last week.
So... why are you still on Firefox 3b5?
"The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
The main problem isn't "works exactly like Windows", it's a double standard a great many people have. Windows is judged far less harshly than Linux by many non-techies, and this extends to open source apps as well.
For example, I had one user almost scream at me that Thunderbird wasn't showing linked images in his email messages and to remove Thunderbird and put him back on OE. He couldn't stand that behavior. When I pointed that he didn't have Thunderbird and was using OE, then he told me, "Never mind, it's OK."!
Sadly, this is not an isolated case. A hardware vendor I know tried putting on OpenOffice.org (OOo) on new computers for free when the customer didn't buy MS Office. He quit due to people's double standards. They expect him to support OOo for free and called constantly, but these same people are willing to pay for MS Office support when, on occasion, they do call for support.
Some of my favorite applications were written for Windows XP and run fine under Vista SP1, but don't now and probably never will run under Linux. The spectrum extends from the infradig Konfabulator (Yahoo! Widgets) to middle-of-the-road stuff like SmartGo and Many Faces of Go to the ultracool iTunes and DVD movie players. OOo, of course, is the exception, not the rule. Ubuntu (and everyone else in LinuxLand, I presume) offers about a billion small projects, competing with a score of other distros trying to making sense of it all for average users. Hopefully, considering Ubuntu's near-readiness for prime time (hell, it even recognized my Dell trackpad and my USB wireless mouse by Microsoft, straight out of the box), consumers (as opposed to yoozers) will clarify this situation by sheer Darwinian frenzy in the near future.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
All of that functionality except the virus testing is available on freshmeat.net, which points you to home pages - which hopefully have links to official download sites.
Of course, download.com sounds a lot nicer than freshmeat.net. But whatever.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Please read my embedded comments. I am going to assume the "Gnome" desktop.
/usr (or below) takes care of it.
/usr is automounted (or a piece of it), -or- software is automatically deployed, this issue is simply "solved".
- Lock-down user desktops with varying levels of security restrictions depending on their login Organisational Unit (i.e Accounts, Developers, etc)
Please note that the entire "/usr" tree is automountable. In particular, this gives you automatic lockdown on desktop by user, machine, OS level, and a number of other characteristics (x86 vs Power architecture, for example).
- Auto-mount specific network shares
Unix (linux) accomplishes this by means of the "automounter". Automounter is fed by NIS or LDAP.
- Centrally configure a patch management system (WSUS equivalent) for each workstations' software updates.
Of course this is common, as is OS loading. I don't know "WSUS", but centralised upgrades are as easy as configuring your own repository in Redhat, SuSE or Fedora. I am sure other distributions have equivalent features.
- Deploy & install automatically software packages depending on OU.
That would be "kickstart", and network booting.
- Set automatically firewall policies
Why? I really don't understand this. Do you mean packet filtering rules on the local machine? Again, automount of
- Brand each machine with company screensaver, etc, etc.
Again, once
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061