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RIAA's Throwing In the Towel Covered a Sucker Punch

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The RIAA threw in the towel, all right, but was only doing it in preparation for throwing a sucker punch. After dropping its 'making available' case, Warner v. Cassin, before Judge Robinson could decide whether to dismiss or not, it was only trying to do an 'end run' (if I may mix my sports metaphors) around the judge's deciding the motion and freezing discovery. The RIAA immediately, and secretly, filed a new case against the family, calling this one 'Warner v. Does 1-4.' In their papers the lawyers 'forgot' to mention that the new case was related. As a result, Does 1-4 was assigned to another judge, who knew nothing about the old case. The RIAA lawyers also may have forgotten that they couldn't bring any more cases over this same claim, since they'd already dismissed it twice before. Not to worry, NYCL wrote letters to both judges, reminding them of what the RIAA lawyers had forgotten."

141 of 411 comments (clear)

  1. NYCL FTW! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That is all.

    1. Re:NYCL FTW! by VeNoM0619 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No kidding, I am thankful that we have people like NYCL out there keeping track of these events and posting the news. Being a lawyer who stands up for morals are hard to come by traits found in a single person, and deserves plenty of respect and admiration.

      So for all those who haven't, or forgotten to say it, THANK YOU NYCL.

      --
      Disclaimer: I am not god.
      We may not be created equal
      But we can be treated equal.
    2. Re:NYCL FTW! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      TIA is "thanks in advance." YHL. HTH. HAND.

    3. Re:NYCL FTW! by KillerBob · · Score: 4, Funny

      Probably... Overuse of acronyms may very well cause a TIA

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    4. Re:NYCL FTW! by aurispector · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've met lots of decent lawyers. When you need one and they save your ass by knowing the rules, you'll thank them. Most are hardworking folks trying to making a living & NYCL is one of them. A little love for the good lawyers? Way overdue.

      --
      I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
    5. Re:NYCL FTW! by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Thanks, aurispector.... you made my day.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    6. Re:NYCL FTW! by tubegeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      NYCL: at what point do the RIAA open themselves up to racketeering charges with behavior like this?

    7. Re:NYCL FTW! by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

      NYCL: at what point do the RIAA open themselves up to racketeering charges with behavior like this? In my opinion, they already have, with a massive 5 year nationwide extortion campaign, use of unlicensed investigators, unlawful collection tactics, criminal violations of the federal computer fraud and abuse act, criminal price fixing in negotiating settlements, many instances of perjury.......
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  2. I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wouldn't this be contempt of court or some other punishment? I mean, I'm pretty sure the judges can't be too happy about trying to be tricked like this - can they punish the lawyers in any way?

  3. we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by unity100 · · Score: 4, Funny

    just to make sure he's safe from any shit riaa may try pulling.

    now, which of you geeks want to take on this duty ?

    1. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by spun · · Score: 5, Funny

      I heard they were gonna put a severed horse head in his bed, but it turns out that's copyrighted.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 4, Funny

      NewYorkCountryLawyer has been kidnapped by RIAA ninjas.

      Are you a bad enough dude to rescue NewYorkCountryLawyer?

    3. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by RuBLed · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or maybe just list the names of these lawyers.. Is that possible? Maybe we could make then a Caramelldansen animation.

    4. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by Psmylie · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes to the black suits. Not because they look cool, but because black is very slimming.

      --

      psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo

    5. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by nomadic · · Score: 5, Funny

      now, which of you geeks want to take on this duty ?

      Yes, because of when I think of effective bodyguards, I think slashdot geeks. Though I suppose theoretically if one took a bullet for NYCL, his pocket protector might intercept the bullet.

    6. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by veganboyjosh · · Score: 2, Funny

      if one took a bullet for NYCL,

      What kind of mod points does one get for that?!

    7. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Funny

      Makes sense. With the new summer movies coming out, this move might be used to promote the Get Smart movie:

      RIAA:Would you believe that "making available" is copyright infringement?
      Judge Robinson:No.
      *Refiles and puts on disguise*
      RIAA:How about now?

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    8. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by Kajukenbo · · Score: 2, Funny

      There are plenty of Kaju people in the NY area that can help if he looks them up.
      NYCL, I'd volunteer to do it, but I'm in the Midwest, so just remember some of the basics:

      1) Don't block with your face
      2) It only hurts until the pain goes away
      3) The best defense is a great offense
      4) Sticks and stones CAN break your bones
      5) When Zen ends, the beatings begin

      and one that may resonate with you

      6) It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six... ;-)

      --
      assertion: a positive statement, usually made without an attempt at furnishing evidence
    9. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by Skadet · · Score: 2, Informative

      Haha, nice work. My brother and I used to play Bad Dudes on the NES when I was, like, 10 years old.

      (for those wondering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Dudes )

    10. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by Kjella · · Score: 2, Funny

      What kind of mod points does one get for that?! -6, Feet
      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re:we gotta assign people to protect NYCL by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just reply with his full name, addresses of his legal and most frequented vacation residences, passport picture, daily routes to and from work, etc. I'll take care of the rest. I kid, I kid. No, but seriously... Did you say "vacation"? What the hell is a "vacation"?
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  4. Re:i want to kill myself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I advise old age. That's how I'm planning to kill myself.

  5. How can they get away with this by guruevi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Either their lawyers are incompetent or crooks or both but this is ridiculous. What were they expecting? That nobody was going to find out? Thanks to NYCL we get a little bit of fairness in the crooked justice system. How can you file a 'secret' lawsuit anyway?

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:How can they get away with this by dmgxmichael · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hopefully the lawyers involved will be disbarred. Probably they will not, but one can hope.

    2. Re:How can they get away with this by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 4, Funny

      How can you file a 'secret' lawsuit anyway?

      I do it all the time. I have a folder under my bed labelled "Secret Lawsuits".

    3. Re:How can they get away with this by Rurik · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not a real secret lawsuit. They refused to disclosed its relevance to the current case, which kept it secret from the ruling judge. They were hoping to slip it through the cracks and basically start from scratch with another judge that they thought would be sympathetic to their needs.

    4. Re:How can they get away with this by TheSeventh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The term 'Anonymous Coward' fits really well here.

      So, when choosing which side to take, you obviously go with the RIAA, over the lawyer defending the Cassin family.

      While their are many aspects to IP, illegal file sharing, copyrights, etc., you choose to side with the group that sends out blanket lawsuits in an attempt to do as much money-grabbing as easily as possible. This is the same group that has sued homeless people, elderly people, DEAD people, and people without computers. Based on what, they have to be right EVENTUALLY?

      So many people hate these lawyers and the RIAA not just because they'd really like to download music for free (even though iTunes now sells more music than WalMart), but because they are extremely underhanded, conniving and despicable, even for lawyers. Even other lawyers can't stand them, and that says a lot.

      Their MO is "find people to sue, threaten much, try to extract money, drop the case if they want to fight or it will be too hard, and don't worry about whether they did it or not, hopefully they'll just pay some money to make us go away."

      Then every now and then, to show they are serious and that they can fight, push hard to win regardless of the facts so more people will be afraid.


      This is not acceptable behavior in a free country. Personally, I don't know the Cassin family, and I know nothing about the evidence against them or whether they're guilty or not, but given the RIAA's tactics and prior behavior, I want the RIAA to lose, badly, expensively and repeatedly until these types of actions are no longer allowed in civilized society.

      In a courtroom, your actions and your reputation as a lawyer follow you in every case you argue. These lawyers are scum and have proved it many times, they should be treated as such.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean that they're not out to get you.
    5. Re:How can they get away with this by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why is that I have this feeling that "Lawyer", "Incompetent" and "Crook" are oxymorons? I think you mean redundant rather than oxymoron. Now that I've done my pedantic duty, let's examine the three sets you mention to see how they overlap:

      There are obviously lots and lots of incompetent people that are not lawyers. And of course, many crooks are not lawyers. However, the "Lawyer" set overlaps so completely with the "Crook" set to the point that "Lawyer" is almost a subset of "Crook". And of course, the Lawyer/Incompetent overlap falls almost entirely within the Lawyer/Crook overlap - because if you're an incompetent lawyer, than almost the only way to stay in business is to also be a crook.

      Now, the RIAA seems to pull its entire legal staff from the place where "Lawyer", "Incompetent", and "Crook" all overlap. If you're sketching this all out yourself, you should have a very small section where "Lawyer" doesn't overlap "Incompetent" or "Crook". There, you will find NYCL and, maybe 1 or 2 other people.
      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
  6. It's hard to believe. by Mystery00 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's hard to believe these people actually attended law school, or are they just grabbing more money from RIAA by making it look like they're doing something?

    It sure seems ridiculous from an outside point of view, but I wonder what actually goes on. Any theories?

    --
    "we've got trenchcoats and bad attitudes" - John Constantine, HellBlazer
  7. Not innocent enough! by DarkLegacy · · Score: 5, Funny

    When's the RIAA going to stop suing families and finally go for the homeless people? ;)

    --
    127.0.0.1
    1. Re:Not innocent enough! by MacDork · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When's the RIAA going to stop suing families and finally go for the homeless people? ;)

      They've done that too. They've also sued the dead, people who don't even own a computer, and paralyzed stroke victims.

    2. Re:Not innocent enough! by DMoylan · · Score: 2, Funny

      homeless people don't have any way of paying the money that the riaa want.

      if however they had a law were you could legally harvest their organs i wouldn't put it past these vultures.

    3. Re:Not innocent enough! by YojimboJango · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't forget the article a few weeks ago about them suing a university lazer jet printer.

    4. Re:Not innocent enough! by digitrev · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, they just sent a take down notice. No lawsuits...yet...

      --
      Cynical Idealist
  8. At this point... by Psmylie · · Score: 4, Informative

    It seems like the RIAA is throwing all the shit they can think of at the wall to see what will stick. Seems a little desperate to me.

    --

    psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo

  9. Dirty Pool by whisper_jeff · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A question for Ray (and any other lawyers on /.): I know lawyers are required to do what they can to the best of their ability for their clients but, to me, a non-lawyer, it really seems like the RIAA lawyers are playing dirty pool to the Nth degree. They aren't just doing everything they can - they are going beyond the call of duty to succeed even if it is beyond the scope of law and morals. Is this sort of conduct "normal" for lawyers (as in, common enough that this isn't terribly surprising) or are the RIAA lawyers truly standing out from the crowd with their actions?

    1. Re:Dirty Pool by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Follow-up questions: Could the actions of these lawyers cause them to be disbarred? And if not, shouldn't they be?

      Thanks, NYCL.

    2. Re:Dirty Pool by bitflip · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm not a lawyer, but I've hired a few over the years.

      Frankly, I want my lawyers ready and willing to sue their own mothers if that's what I want them to do.

      I regard lawyers (mine or not) as instruments of the client's will. It is the RIAA that is the scumbags, because they're the ones asking for, or at least not blocking, their tactics.

    3. Re:Dirty Pool by JustinOpinion · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I should let NYCL answer for himself... but if you look at his comment history, you'll find that he re-iterates that the RIAA lawyers are indeed using unconventionally dirty tactics. He says they are unethical and/or stupid, and sometimes implies that their actions are outright illegal and they should be disbarred.

      Example:

      It's the RIAA's lawyers that are missing something. I'm not sure what they're missing, but I've got it narrowed down to 2 things: (1) brain cells, or (2) integrity. Or possibly some of each.
      Another example:

      what they are doing is totally illegal. In federal practice ex parte relief is only granted as a last resort. In these cases the RIAA lies through its teeth to get the order, falsely saying that the ISP or University will destroy the records if they are given notice of the application. It amazes me that there is any judge in the U.S. who would sign such an order. I think you'll be seeing more and more judges refusing, as news of the RIAA's lies spreads.
      Another:

      How stupid can these people be?....
      Good question. I don't know the answer to it. Each time I think they've reached the mountain top, they come up with something even better.

      It's as tough as the other question I keep wondering about with these characters:

      "How mean and how heartless can someone who was born of a human mother be?" Each time I think I've seen how low they can sink, they find some way to sink even lower.

      These questions are simply unanswerable.
      I think it's safe to say that NYCL has a low opinion of their tactics both from an ethical standpoint and from a legal practice standpoint.
    4. Re:Dirty Pool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know lawyers are required to do what they can to the best of their ability for their clients No, you don't know.

      Lawyers represent thier client, but they are first and foremost Officers of the Court. Their first duty is to the court, and then to their client.
    5. Re:Dirty Pool by OzoneLad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Frankly, I want my lawyers ready and willing to sue their own mothers if that's what I want them to do. I regard lawyers (mine or not) as instruments of the client's will. It is the RIAA that is the scumbags, because they're the ones asking for, or at least not blocking, their tactics. Lawyers are not guns that a client simply points at a target. They're human beings with all the rights and duties that implies, including accepting responsibility for their actions. "Doing what the client wants" certainly doesn't excuse acting like complete bastards.

      The tacit acceptance of the "ruthless mother-selling bastard" culture among lawyers seems extremely careless to me. Have we forgotten that a large number of people in high positions of power in pretty much all western countries are lawyers or former lawyers?

      And then we're surprised when they pull stuff like the DMCA or the USAPATRIOT Act.
    6. Re:Dirty Pool by ZOMFF · · Score: 5, Informative

      IANAL (but I am dating one) and this is the response I got from her on the matter:

      "Every state has a grievance board that deals with things like unethical conduct. There is one case here involving a grievance against our client (another lawyer) for overly aggressive litigation techniques specifically the service of a subpoena on children, which is not illegal, but their parents felt it was improper and intimidating. Attorneys have to have professional liability insurance as well to protect against claims of malpractice, which could be attributed to "incompetence" or willful misconduct. I know that when I worked in NYC, there was an attorney we knew who was sanctioned (and possibly disbarred) for improperly managing his escrow account. I obviously know no case law on this, but my impression is that once the judge on the new case becomes aware of the Plaintiff's lack of following proper procedure, the case will be thrown out. As far as punishing the attorneys, I am not sure if the court system would take any action other than the dismissal of the case, but certainly if the RIAA feels that its attorneys were behaving incompetently, they could sue for malpractice. My guess is that this was intentional and that the RIAA is on board, though. And a grievance can come from anyone, not just the court or another attorney. And if a grievance was filed the board would have to determine that the RIAA's counsel knowingly ignored procedure."

      --
      Launch every sig.
    7. Re:Dirty Pool by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is off topic, but I'd never date a lawyer unless I was one.

      Closing on the half century, I've just heard too many ugly stories about how bad it can get when the relationship ends. I'd prefer someone safe, like a gang leader's sister.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    8. Re:Dirty Pool by tinkerghost · · Score: 2, Informative

      I regard lawyers (mine or not) as instruments of the client's will. It is the RIAA that is the scumbags, because they're the ones asking for, or at least not blocking, their tactics
      First & foremost, lawyers are officers of the court. That means that part of their job is to ensure that the legal process is adhered to - failure to do so is grounds for disbarment. The problem is that the foxes have been watching the henhouse for a long time. I do however see some light in the several high profile sanction cases in the last couple of months. Perhaps the judges will start dishing out more in an effort to bring their courts back to a civil dispute rather than a back-alley brawl.
    9. Re:Dirty Pool by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Informative

      A question for Ray (and any other lawyers on /.): I know lawyers are required to do what they can to the best of their ability for their clients but, to me, a non-lawyer, it really seems like the RIAA lawyers are playing dirty pool to the Nth degree. They aren't just doing everything they can - they are going beyond the call of duty to succeed even if it is beyond the scope of law and morals. Is this sort of conduct "normal" for lawyers (as in, common enough that this isn't terribly surprising) or are the RIAA lawyers truly standing out from the crowd with their actions? No it is not normal. These lawyers are at the bottom of the profession. In my book, they're outside the profession.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    10. Re:Dirty Pool by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm not a lawyer, but I've hired a few over the years. Frankly, I want my lawyers ready and willing to sue their own mothers if that's what I want them to do. I regard lawyers (mine or not) as instruments of the client's will. Only the dregs of the profession are like that. You want to be represented by the dregs, be my guest. But you'll find that the real victims of those types of lawyers are ..... their clients.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    11. Re:Dirty Pool by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think it's safe to say that NYCL has a low opinion of their tactics both from an ethical standpoint and from a legal practice standpoint. Yes I think he does.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  10. Disbar the RIAA lawyers by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seriously, if they're gaming the system this way, they deserve to lose their licenses. This is clearly unethical and deceptive.

    Or, if you chose to think that they just forgot about the second suit, they're clearly so fucking incompetent that they deserve disbarment anyway.

    Jeez, that's some scummy shit.

    1. Re:Disbar the RIAA lawyers by Ang31us · · Score: 2, Funny

      "They're clearly so fucking incompetent that they deserve dimemberment anyway."

      There, I fixed that for you.

    2. Re:Disbar the RIAA lawyers by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Is that going to work, or are they just going to keep scraping the bottom of the newly-graduated barrel?

      Maybe we can think of this another way - can RIAA cases be used as a honeypot? Let the lawyers bring cases forward, have "judges" spend a few years waffling about it, while the families pretend to be mortified (they've been let in on the whole thing). Then the lawyers are kept busy on pointless cases that go nowhere, and the rest of us can live our lives in peace.

      Actually, maybe that's happening already...

  11. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by FataL187 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    2 Words... Jack Thompson!

    They need to disbar all the RIAA lawyers.

  12. Isn't this well into sanctionable territory? by spazmonkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I would like to know how this sort of thing works within the boundaries of ethics rules. Sanctions? Disbarment?
    Anyone have knowledge to input?

  13. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You would think so. But ethics charges against attorneys are rare and they are very hard to enforce. If you don't believe me, look at how long Jack Thompson has been toying with the system.

  14. Estoppel by Raul654 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not a lawyer, but isn't there some kind of estoppel that prevents a party from dismissing a suit that isn't going well and then refiling it?

    --


    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
    --E.C. Stanton
    1. Re:Estoppel by k_187 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It depends on jurisdiction. I did pretty bad in Civil Procedure, and don't have my FRCP in front of me, but in Federal Court (which I don't even know if theyre in since I didn't RTFA), you get 2 bites at the apple. You can voluntarily remove yourself once, then refile and I think if there's a procedural problem, you can also remove and refile. Don't quote me on all that though.

      --
      11 was a racehorse
      12 was 12
      1111 Race
      12112
    2. Re:Estoppel by PolyDwarf · · Score: 5, Funny

      It depends on jurisdiction. I did pretty bad in Civil Procedure, and don't have my FRCP in front of me, but in Federal Court (which I don't even know if theyre in since I didn't RTFA), you get 2 bites at the apple. You can voluntarily remove yourself once, then refile and I think if there's a procedural problem, you can also remove and refile. Don't quote me on all that though. Well, then everything's fine. There was a procedural problem with their second suit; they were going to lose.
    3. Re:Estoppel by SQLGuru · · Score: 4, Funny
      An unnamed source says:

      You can voluntarily remove yourself once, then refile and I think if there's a procedural problem, you can also remove and refile. Don't quote me on all that though. Layne
    4. Re:Estoppel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't quote me on all that though. Parent is obviously not paying attention.
  15. Not a smart move by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't think this is a smart move. Given that the first case is still active, and that the new case involves the same acts and the same defendants, can't the defense move to have the new case reassigned to the first judge and consolidated with the first case? I'd think that would be a lawyer's worst nightmare, to have tried this kind of end-run and wind up back in front of the judge you tried to evade anyway. He's sure to be none too thrilled about it, and now has a reason to crack down harder.

  16. Double jeopardy seems unlikely... by aredubya74 · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...since there was no actual trial for the defendants in the initial case, but how is this remotely legal? IANAL, but if someone here actually is, how is it legal, procedurally, that a plaintiff is permitted to drop a claim and then immediately file an identical new one? This seems like blatant judge shopping, as it seemed possible that Judge Robinson would dismiss the charges with prejudice (so they could not be refiled), leaving precedent for dismissal of "making available" cases.

    --

    RW

  17. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  18. Sanctions? by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I'm genuinely curious - doesn't the RIAA risk facing sanctions or worse? If not from the courts, there has got to be something from the Bar Association that prevents unethical behavior like this... and if not, then maybe all you geeks out there need to see about lobbying state/provincial legislators to have some sort of stronger enforcement against unethical behavior put into place. It seems a bit too loose from my POV.



    I don't just mean the RIAA, either. SCO v IBM stands out as another really big example where lawyers get to screw directly with the things that we in geekdom make a daily living from (e.g. the RIAA spewing mistruths about how the Internet works, corps claiming rights they do not have over code, etc).


    As a bonus, maybe keeping the less scrupulous lawyers among us honest will at least make things a little easier for all of us.


    Even coordinating a letter-writing campaign couldn't hurt, y'know?

    /P

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  19. Re:Hang'em high. New law needed. by houghi · · Score: 4, Funny

    How does 10 years for using lawless lawyers sound?
    What does Lucy or any of her lawers has to do with anything?
    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  20. no by unity100 · · Score: 2, Funny

    we use unearthly vengeful avatar magic instead. we bend space/time, shift densities, put shear force on souls, and do force pushes.

    1. Re:no by Kokuyo · · Score: 3, Funny

      But the suits ar still okay, right?

  21. Re:Sure, "Forgotten", right by Chas · · Score: 5, Informative

    "How are these underhanded lying scumbag tactics even legal?"

    Because forum shopping isn't illegal.

    And there is no double jeopardy rules in civil cases. They're allowed to bring the case to court as many times as they can find venues.

    HOWEVER, because of the preceeding cases, every venue they pop up in should get their case shot down again, and again, and again.

    Think "whack-a-mole".

    But things like neglecting to attach case history is stuff that can get these fuckers censured and possibly disbarred.

    Here's hoping!

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  22. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by geminidomino · · Score: 5, Funny

    But ethics charges against attorneys are rare and they are very hard to enforce. Well yeah. Charging a lawyer for ethics violations is like charging a wolverine for "failure to adhere to vegan principles."
  23. I don't understand by Yurka · · Score: 4, Interesting

    why it is so important to try and nail this particular defendant. It's not like they lack potential victims; drop "making available" (just as they did in refiling this one) and do the next sweep. Is it only because they're pissed this one got away? They can't afford it. Revenge is a dish best prepared from correct ingredients; if all you have is crap, just keep shoveling it in front of the ventilator, and don't attempt precision targeting.

    --
    I can assure you, the best way to get rid of dragons is to have one of your own.
    1. Re:I don't understand by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because this defendant has fought and won. The RIAA needs to send a clear message to everyone else: even winning against us comes at too high a cost. That's all this is about now, and hopefully the courts will send a message to the RIAA: the legal system isn't here to use as your personal club to beat people you don't like with.

    2. Re:I don't understand by ktappe · · Score: 2

      why it is so important to try and nail this particular defendant It's starting to look to me as if the lawyers are being allowed to call their own shots. They figure the more of these tricks they pull, the longer they can drag this out, and thus the more salary they will get from the RIAA. Job security. And the RIAA sees tricks like this and instead of thinking "those bozos" instead think "Wow, they sure are wiley and know their stuff. Let's let them keep deciding their own path."
      --
      "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
    3. Re:I don't understand by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're missing one nuance of this case, and several related ones: "win" doesn't mean the defendant just prevailed. In this case, it means the defendant gets awarded costs. That's a big deal. Really big. One reason defendants don't fight is that typically even if they win they'll have to bear the costs of their own defense. No lawyer's going to take a case on contingency if there's no possibility of recovery at the end, and few defendants can afford to pay a good defense attorney cash on the barrelhead. Awarding costs changes that. Now there is money in it for the attorney if they prevail, which means more attorneys will be willing to take cases on a contingency basis. That means more defendants fighting back and not settling immediately, which means more work and more costs for the RIAA. The RIAA doesn't want to win cases, they want to get settlements without having to fight at all. That, as much as the possibility of setting a bad precedent, is why the RIAA has tried to drop cases when the defendant puts up a determined defense. And cases like this are rapidly making that impossible.

  24. Subversion of Justice Workshop. by splutty · · Score: 5, Funny

    We are very proud to announce our new workshop called Subversion of Justice.

    We think this is the new trend in law at this moment, and have already found 4 speakers that are more than willing to state their case.

    Our thanks go to Mr Bush, Mr Thompson, An anonymous person from the Scientology church who wants to go by the nomicker of 'Tom', and one or more speakers from an organization calling themselves RIAA for being this fast in giving their assent to speak at this great event.

    Please stay tuned for more details.

    --
    Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
    1. Re:Subversion of Justice Workshop. by jc42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      We are very proud to announce our new workshop called Subversion of Justice.
      We think this is the new trend in law at this moment, ...


      Heh. Very deserving of the "funny" mods. But it's actually not anything new at all. The US Constitution's 5th Amendment was written to include the phrasing "... nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy ..." in order to prevent exactly this sort of thing.

      The folks who wrote the US Constitution were familiar with the history of monarchs and other tyrants handling their victims via "perpetual trial", in which a person would be arrested and tried, and if the court decided for the defense, it didn't matter. As you walked out of the courtroom, you would be immediately arrested again on the same charges. You could easily spent the rest of your life in jail awaiting a sequence of trials. The general legal term for this is res judicata (q.v.).

      But that term only deals with cases that have been decided by an earlier court. The American revolutionaries were also familiar with the tactic for avoiding res judicata: Terminate a trial before the decision is handed down, and file the same or similar charges against the victim in a new case. The phrasing in the US Constitution was supposed to prevent this approach, which is what the RIAA is doing.

      So it's nothing new; it's a centuries-old legal tactic used by people in power to deal with their opponents by draining their finances with unending legal battles.

      It's not a recently rediscovered tactic in the US, either. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, a lot of "subversive" groups claimed (and investigative journalists verified) that they were treated the same way. Their people would be arrested and held in jail the maximum time allowed without filing charges. They would be released without charges, and as they walked out the door of the police station, they would be met by officers who would arrest them and haul them back inside. In these cases, there weren't even charges filed, much less any trials, so the lawyers could argue that the Fifth Amendment technically didn't apply.

      It's an old story, and the legal system doesn't seem to be very good at preventing it or punishing people for doing it.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  25. disbarment needed by RichMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This clearly looks like an attempt by the lawyers to game the system. There are clear rules they should know. At some level lawyers for both parties are supposed to be agents of the court.

    Fines to recover the courts cost for all actions are needed on top of disbarment of the RIAA's lawyers. The message "Don't Game the System" needs to be sent.

  26. Disbar them by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Maybe I'm wrong, but to be a practicing attorney, you are legally obligated to be ethical.

    1. Re:Disbar them by peipas · · Score: 5, Funny

      I work for a bar association, and we indeed host continuing legal education (CLE) seminars entitled, Avoiding Ethics Mistakes in the Legal Profession, but that title doesn't fit on our room signage so we just go with, Avoiding Ethics.

    2. Re:Disbar them by Libertarian001 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm guessing it's a popular course. Ever have a student try to sue for false advertising?

  27. Re:Pathetic by Holi · · Score: 5, Informative

    You should really look up Amicus curiae.

    An amicus curiae brief that brings to the attention of the Court relevant matter not already brought to its attention by the parties may be of considerable help to the Court. An amicus curiae brief that does not serve this purpose burdens the Court, and its filing is not favored.

    --Rule 37(1), Rules of the Supreme Court of the U.S.

    --
    Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
  28. Re:Pathetic by m.ducharme · · Score: 5, Informative

    I can't tell for sure, but there is some indication, if you follow the links back, that NYCL, you know, Ray Beckerman, is Counsel for the Defendants, and as such would of course have standing to address both judges. And if I'm wrong, well see my sibling post re: Amicus Curiae briefs.

    --
    Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
  29. An old legal maxim by Anita+Coney · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's an old legal maxim that say if you can't win under the law, argue the facts. And if you can't win under either, well, there's always lying, cheating, and stealing.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    1. Re:An old legal maxim by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      There's an old legal maxim that say if you can't win under the law, argue the facts. And if you can't win under either, well, there's always lying, cheating, and stealing.

      I thought it went:

      If the facts are on your side, bang on the facts.
      If the law is on your side, bang on the law.
      If neither the facts nor the law is on your side, bang on the table
      I'm not sure what the RIAA lawyers are doing here, banging their heads against the wall perhaps?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  30. These are the people you buy media from... by BobMcD · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the direct result of all those dollars you and I have given the parent companies over the years. Next time a new CD, DVD, etc hits the shelves, consider buying it used first. Wait a month or two, until someone else gets bored of it, and support a local business instead of these vampires.

    1. Re:These are the people you buy media from... by Jaysyn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      These days I only buy from non-RIAA acts, since all the used CD stores where I live have basically been run out of town.

      www.riaaradar.com

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    2. Re:These are the people you buy media from... by pintpusher · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Creating a market for second hand media helps support the market for first hand media because someone has to buy it first. If you really object to them, and want to deprive them of money, then don't by *anything*, first or second hand, that is produced by them.

      --
      man, I feel like mold.
  31. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by AndersOSU · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes you are, if you're the PE who signed off on it.

  32. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Kierthos · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It it collapses because of your deliberate mistakes, then yes, you can be sued over it. The suit against you may not succeed, but you damn well can be taken to court over it.

    Likewise, these RIAA lawyers should face some form of penalty or review before an ethics board. Will they? Probably not. But they should.

    --
    Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
  33. Why is the RIAA immune from... by WCMI92 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Contempt of court citations?

    Seems to me that what they did here was clearly an action in contempt of court, since they ostensibly refiled the same case, hoping to get a free "reset" button with a new judge.

    This is one of the real illustrative reasons why we need a "loser pays" system in the courts (where the initiating party would be liable for all legal and court expenses if they lose), since it would discourage megacartels like the MAFIAA from using their financial advantage to manipulate the legal system.

    What the defendants should do is immediately file a contempt motion in the original court.

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
  34. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Yetihehe · · Score: 5, Funny

    Imagine a coin. Good is one one side and bad is on other. Then there are lawyers, which are opposite to both sides. They are greater than both good and evil, able to walk on edges between good and bad. And there is NYCL, he is in oppsoition to lawyers, and he is one of them. The most mythical man of all dimensions. He is the one which trims the edges, uncovering thruth before our eyes. He is the son of justice.

    --
    Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
  35. Two words... by Fallen+Andy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    If they can't be nailed on ethical practice, just two words - "IRS Audit". (if they are prepared to risk gaming the system, then there's (illegal) money involved).

    Andy

  36. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Today's oxymoron is "deliberate mistakes"

  37. Re:Sure, "Forgotten", right by DustyShadow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because forum shopping isn't illegal. And there is no double jeopardy rules in civil cases. They're allowed to bring the case to court as many times as they can find venues. Sure but they are limited to only those courts that have personal jurisdiction over the defendants, which should be only one or two courts.
  38. Re:Hang'em high. New law needed. by Blitz22 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Boooooooo!!!!! Hisssssss!!!!

    --
    If I went around claiming I was an emperor...they'd put me away!
  39. Re:Pathetic by UncleTogie · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sending a letter to judges to tell them what is going on in their own courtroom? When you are a party to neither case? Clearly because you have a bone to pick with one of the parties?

    So you like your lawyers to do a half-ass job? His interest here is that the parties being sued were his clients, not strangers. He's doing his job. DO read TFA next time...

    --
    Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
  40. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by XnavxeMiyyep · · Score: 5, Funny

    And there is NYCL, he is in oppsoition to lawyers, and he is one of them. The most mythical man of all dimensions. He is the one which trims the edges, uncovering thruth before our eyes. He is the son of justice.

    Starring Wesley Snipes, as Blade 4: Music of Blood

    --
    I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
  41. Sanctions Are In Order At A Minimum..!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sanctions are in order that's for sure, & I'm also sure there are other remedies that the judge could impose. These sort of tactics are getting out of hand & the courts have got to be getting really sick & tired of these childish tricks by the RIAA Lawyers..

  42. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by canuck57 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wouldn't this be contempt of court or some other punishment? I mean, I'm pretty sure the judges can't be too happy about trying to be tricked like this - can they punish the lawyers in any way?

    It is easy. Lets hope a judge does hear the case. Maybe go like this.

    Judge: Defense, I would entertain a counter suit for harassment.

    Defense: I can have one on your desk tomorrow AM.

    Judge: Good, we reconvene tomorrow, 1PM.

    Next day...1pm.

    Judge: Before I dismiss the claim, I pronounce the defendants all receive 1M plus legal fees. This is compensatory damages for harassment. If this is appealed, or comes up a again I would like to add the notes to double the awards.

    Judge: Case dismissed with prejudice.

  43. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by sammyF70 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Do you have any Torrent Tracker for it?

    --
    "DRM is like the Ford Pinto: it's a smooth ride, right up the point at which it explodes and ruins your day."-C.Doctorow
  44. Re:i want to kill myself by Kierthos · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So if NYCL is our enemy, as you claim, then what the screaming budgie fuck does that make the RIAA lawyers? Boy scouts, paragons of humanity, and the future leaders of the free world? I think not. The RIAA lawyers, truth be told, are trying to get their clients a victory in civil court. But they are going about it in such a way, that even if NYCL was the stereotypical ambulance chaser kind of lawyer and the kind that carries a spare neck brace for defendants in auto accident cases, he would still look like the good guy in this by comparison.

    Snidely Whiplash, tying Little Nell to the train-tracks, would look like a good guy by comparison.

    --
    Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
  45. One solution by boatboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One interesting solution I've heard for this sort of unethical lawyering is to require lawyers to carry malpractice insurance. Talk to any doctor, and they'll tell you that malpractice insurance actually makes them targets for litigation, since the prosecution knows there is a higher chance of a high payout. At least in my state, it's mandatory doctors carry it. Apply that same rule to lawyers, and you would get a great, entertaining situation of lawyers suing each other over malpractice. Too bad politicians are typically lawyers.

  46. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by nobodyman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So NYCL is to lawyers what Blade is to vampires. Intriguing.

    Oh my god. Since lawyers and vampires are bloodsuckers, could that mean that NYCL... is... Blade?

  47. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, what you're saying is that in contrast to most lawyers, who are coins with big edges, NYCL is a marble? Or just that he has more marbles than most lawyers?

    --
    We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
  48. Re:Pathetic by m.ducharme · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hmmm, I don't think "trying his case on the internet" is as bad as it seems in this case. Given the tactics being used by the other side, and given that the RIAA is trying to get new case law favourable to their position that will affect everybody, bypassing the legislative branch in the process, it's good strategy to shine a big bright light on these cases, so people at least know what's going on.

    Also, he pushes the news to us because we're Slashdot and we're interested, and because we can give him insights with regard to the technological issues that he couldn't get anywhere else. It's not like he's pushing updates to the New York Times or ABC news (at least, I don't think he is...).

    --
    Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
  49. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Funny

    Imagine a coin. Good is one one side and bad is on other.


    You are Harvey Dent and I claim my five pounds.
  50. Re:i want to kill myself by Jaysyn · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hey look, RIAA astroturfers have invaded /.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
  51. NYCL, god bless you by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

    you're some sort of saint in the fight against corrupt business abuses upon society

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  52. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Cocoronixx · · Score: 5, Funny

    No you're not. Unless the collapsing thing was a design failure. I am having a hard time finding a case where collapsing would be considered a design feature, rather than a design failure.
    --
    "Obscenity is the crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker." - cloak42
  53. Re:Pathetic by 45mm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When you are a party to neither case? Except that NYCL IS a party to both cases, he's representing the defendant (or defendants, as the RIAA lawyers are putting it) in question.

    There is nothing more sad than an attorney putting their own moralistic crusade over propriety and- yes- ethics. I think that more accurately describes the RIAA's lawyers, not NYCL.
  54. Disbarrment, please by JSBiff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    See, this kind of thing should lead to all the lawyers working those cases being disbarred (personally), and the law firms they work for losing their licenses to practice law.

    Legal tactics like this just waste taxpayer money (after all, the courts are taxpayer funded), and drive up the legal costs of the parties that are trying to defend against their claims.

  55. Re:Pathetic by blankinthefill · · Score: 2

    In addition to all of this, he's also (and more importantly, imo) spreading details about the dirty and questionably or purely illegal tricks the RIAA are using. This information is useful to ANYONE that has been accused by the RIAA, and I for one am glad to know that we have people that are willing to share as much information about the situation as they can.

  56. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  57. WASTE by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bits are not free. Do not waste them on another Blade sequel. Shut down the computer if you're not using it.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  58. Re:i want to kill myself by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    He's distracting the enemies of the RIAA away from what they should be doing - which is building a viable alternative. Uhm, there is no way to effectively compete with this kind of monopoly anyway. When they are able to demand royalties for music producers who are not even members of the RIAA, how do you expect to get a foothold?
    --
    "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
  59. Collateral attack by debrain · · Score: 4, Informative

    What the RIAA lawyers are doing is often referred to as a collateral attack - the attempt to undermine one Court's unfavourable ruling by seeking out a different ruling in another court. It is also related to the concept of litigation by installments. It is generally accepted that fundamental principles of justice (fairness, expediency, access to justice, finality, and certainty) are undermined by collateral attacks. The Court committing the collateral attack is often estopped (by collateral estoppel) from making a judgment which would undermine another Court's ruling. One example of this principle exists in mainstream media as "double jeopardy". In the practice of law, this is quite a common issue; for example, when a unionized individual brings a collective agreement grievance to labour arbitration they are often then precluded from seeking out a remedy at Court.

    A collateral attack is not the same as an appeal. Appeals are to "higher" Courts that typically only have a limited scope to review the decision of a lower Court.

    Of course, you ought to seek out proper legal advice in your jurisdiction to see how these rules would apply and in particular apply to the facts of your situation.

  60. Re:i want to kill myself by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Funny

    Suicide-bomb RIAA headquarters. Two birds with one stone! :D

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  61. Re:Pathetic by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An end run around the law (which is what the RIAA lawyers are doing) justifies Beckerman sending a letter to both judges. And I am sure neither will be upset by his action.

    This letter should go as well to the bar associations to which these lawyers belong. This is a serious breach of ethics. (Yes, lawyers do in fact have a code of ethics; they are officers of the court first and foremost and their duty to their client comes second.)

    --
    "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
  62. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by gnick · · Score: 3, Informative

    Right, because no building contractor has ever deliberately used substandard materials to cut costs, even when they had to know it would end badly. Right, because no building contractor has ever been held responsible for that kind of behavior.
    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  63. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Horse hockey!

    I deal with engineers and the crap they produce all the time. I can't even tell you how many times I've reviewed the as-builts for a facility (signed and sealed by a PE) only to visit the facility and find the as-builts do not truly reflect what is on-site. And I don't mean "oh, this is 3 feet further up the wall than the drawings reflect." More like, oh, despite what the engineer said they never bothered to build this legally required sampling port so now they cannot collect samples properly. I have never once seen or even heard of any repercussions back on the engineer who signed off on incorrect plans. Worse, it's usually engineers from the same one or two firms that pull this stuff.

  64. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by KillerBob · · Score: 2, Funny
    --
    If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
  65. Time to think outside the box... by AttillaTheNun · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The RIAA is a monopolistic mafia that depends on the popularity of their artists to enforce their ways. Popularity which they artificially create via their PR machine and monopoly.

    I say we play into their game... to their detriment.

    Find the lamest, most retarded RIAA artist out there (I'm thinking orders of magnitude beyond Milli Vanilli here) and everyone (and I mean everyone) buy ONLY that artist's material. Buy every CD, online album, single, ringtone, whatever. I wanna see that artist as the sole occupant of every music chart and radio playlist. The more obvious to everyone of the sham that is taking place, the better.

    Once the RIAA is dependent on this single jackass of an artist for all of their revenue (effectively killing off the rest of their artists or driving them outside the RIAA), stop buying. Let the competition, based on free market labels and artists with true talent, drive the final stake through their sorry butts. It will go down as one of the most hilarious (and satisfying) scandals ever.

  66. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by reiley · · Score: 5, Funny

    I heard they're going to be placed on Double-Secret Probation

  67. Re:i want to kill myself by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


    And I'm posting here because NYCL is precisely the kind of self-absorbed cunt that makes the world so unbearable.

    Would a self-absorbing cunt require tampons? No idea why that thought popped into my head.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  68. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by oldhack · · Score: 2

    ... And there is NYCL, he is in oppsoition to lawyers, and he is one of them. The most mythical man of all dimensions. He is the one which trims the edges, uncovering thruth before our eyes. He is the son of justice.
    NYCL is the new Chuck Norris - he doesn't sue, he... er... well, make up your own ending.
    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  69. NO! You can't withraw & sue forever! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    > And there is no double jeopardy rules in civil cases. They're allowed to bring the case to court as many times as they can find venues.

    Umm, no they're not. The FRCP (Federal Rules of Civil Procedure) generally limits you to bringing the same case twice. After that, you're through. You're not allowed to sue someone and withdraw the minute you appear to be losing over and over, it simply isn't fair. You ARE correct in the fact that it's not "double jeopardy" because it's a civil case, though, but the FRCP does have rules covering this!

    Now, there are probably crazy procedural gotchas here, like whether it's the "same" case or whether they can do something inventive, but that's the general rule. They'll probably say that they're retrying to Does case again instead of the case vs. a named party and that they're somehow legally "different" this time. I hope that the Court doesn't buy that, though, because it's total BS in my opinion. But IANAL, so they might be able to get away with it.

    - I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property

  70. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Adriax · · Score: 4, Funny

    He's a doctor, not a lawyer. Haven't you expanded his acronym? New York County Legalpractitionerofthemedicalarts.

    --
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
  71. Re:i want to kill myself by element-o.p. · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wrong on multiple counts.

    First, don't put all your eggs in one basket. NYCL may or may not be a musician, so he may or may not have the ability to "build a viable alternative." However, he is a lawyer, so legal action is something he is capable of (and therefore is actively) doing. If you really want something better, let everyone interested do what they do best. Don't just pin your hopes on one method of attack and pray it works.

    Second, how do you know the enemies of the RIAA aren't trying to build a viable alternative? Ever been to MySpace (gag) or Soundclick or any of a number of other indie artist web sites? There are quite a few indie musicians trying to produce music without working within the existing power structure; I'm one of them, as is my brother and several of my best friends.

    Third, the RIAA lawyers aren't "just trying to win cases for their client." If all they were doing is taking reasonable steps to protect the IP of their client, I wouldn't have any problems with them. As unpopular as it may be on /., I don't see any reason an artist, song writer, etc. shouldn't get paid for the works they produce. I don't torrent/p2p file share copyrighted works for this reason. However, the way in which the RIAA lawyers are going about the process is unethical at best and illegal at worst. There have been plenty of stories on /. and elsewhere regarding the probable illegality of MediaSentry's investigations without having a license to do so in the relevant jurisdictions. This story is an example of the RIAA lawyers trying to bamboozle a judge. There are plenty more examples; I'm sure a Google search will turn up plenty of reading, if you are so inclined.

    Fourth, and finally, while NYCL may be building a cult of personality here on /., I doubt it is because he wants a bunch of geek hero worshippers. From what I've been able to see, NYCL is actively dogging the RIAA, and even if he enjoys all the praise he gets here (wouldn't you?), the fact is, he is doing something to help others out. If you recall, on one of his first appearances here on /. he kinda got flamed a bit for a while -- there were a lot of "wow, you're a lawyer and you claim to want to help people out? What's the color of the sky on your planet?" snarky comments. However, his actions seem to have won over a lot of people. At least from what little I know about him, he has swayed /. public opinion by putting his money where his mouth is. For that, I respect him.

    --
    MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
  72. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by MBGMorden · · Score: 3, Funny

    You just having used Microsoft Visual Bridge Express 2008 yet. Collapsing is a standard feature if the road becomes overburdened by traffic (at which point it is assumed that you would want to demolish and upgrade the new 12 lane Enterprise Edition).

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  73. Use the damn library!!! by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    THE LIBRARY!!!!

    Use the public library as your media collection. There are over 16,000 libraries and branches in the USA, I'm sure one is near you.

    Go there, BORROW what you want and return it when you are done. If they do not have what you want, buy one and donate to the library for others.

    Published works are important to society, but the copyright cartels MUST be killed. Buying fewer and sharing more is the only way.

  74. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by Alastor187 · · Score: 5, Informative

    uhm, if I recall it correctly, the failed design of tacoma bridge didn't had any legal consequences No, if you remembered correctly you would know that the bridge failed because it was vibrating in a manner never before seen. The air moving around the deck was causing an unforeseen mode of vibration, a problem that falls it the classification of Fluid-Structure Interaction (FSI). FSI problems might have been better understood by aerospace engineers but had little relevance to civil engineering, at the time anyway. The civil engineers didn't "forget" anything, they just simply didn't understand the problem.
  75. You want the Thruth? by spun · · Score: 4, Funny

    You can't handle the Thruth!

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  76. Res Judicata by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    More than that. As many people mentioned, in Federal court, you can dismiss you claims and then refile them. You basically get a second shot if you screwed up and there was never a final judgment. However, if you dismiss a second time, your claims will be dismissed with prejudice. E.g., you can't file them again. In fact, it functions essentially as a final judgment on the merits of the case.

    This means that they can't shop around now for a more sympathetic forum. The principal of res judicata (claim preclusion) means that the same parties can't raise the same claims after there has been a judgment. Ever. Automatic bar. All you can do is attack the judgment itself, say that it was flawed somehow. All you're going to do is piss off the judge, most of the time.

  77. Re:Saying Thanks by Technician · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So for all those who haven't, or forgotten to say it, THANK YOU NYCL.

    In support of his fine work, he is the first Friend I picked on Slashdot. Show your support by listing him as a friend. I noticed you haven't done this yet, otherwise your post would have shown on my screen as you being a friend of a friend. Can you add him as a friend to say thanks and show your support? This guy should have a huge Fan list. He earned it.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  78. Re:So what did the judges say? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

    So what did the judges say? Any response at all? I just wrote to them late yesterday. When they respond I'll of course post it on my blog, and put a story or comment here.
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  79. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by theaceoffire · · Score: 2, Funny

    Forget the 12 lane Enterprise Edition, that is so old!

    Now we got the 12 lane SUPER NEAT VISTA edition!

    It has the same number of lanes, and less cars can go at once, but more can wait in line... and don't you want the bridge to take advantage of that line?

    --
    I steal signatures. This one used to be yours.
  80. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Seconded, enthusiastically. He's a lawyer but he's keeping the RIAA's lawyers in check purely by his own sheer awesomeness. We're really fortunate to have him on slashdot; he always keeps us informed and lifts the level of discourse on slashdot with his contributions. NYCL needs to reply to this, so we can know if he really is the son of justice. I must know. No I'm not.

    But I try to be.
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  81. Re:i want to kill myself by bzipitidoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As unpopular as it may be on /., I don't see any reason an artist, song writer, etc. shouldn't get paid for the works they produce. I don't torrent/p2p file share copyrighted works for this reason.

    And this is the real reason the RIAA gets as much traction as they do. No matter how egregious the RIAA's legal moves are, you and many others feel that, yes, artists do have a right to make a profit off their hard work. Well, of course they do. You think we're arguing that. We're not. You and most of the public have been bedazzled into assuming, without even noticing that the whole concept needs a bit more critical thinking, that there can't possibly be any other way to profit. Flawed though copyright is, nothing else seems as good. And therefore that while the RIAA's methods are objectionable, their hearts are in the right place.

    Sooner or later, probably as late as possible, entertainers are going to have to face up to the fact that copyright is broken. You think copying is easy now? People thought the cassette tape, the VCR, and a little later the Xerox copier would be the death of the entertainment industry. Today copying is far easier, it can be done without any messy paper or tape and their propensity to jam, tear, and mangle. In the future copying will be easier yet. It may well be mostly automatic. Today you at least have to push a few buttons to initiate copying, and wait a little for what passes for broadband in some countries. And even with the enormous expansion in storage space in recent times, you can still run out of room all too easily. When the entire output MPAA and RIAA members, decades of material, can be stuffed onto a fingernail sized crystal, with room to spare, and the whole thing can be transmitted anywhere in the world in under 1 minute, then what? Why bother picking and choosing among torrents, just download the entire library of mankind, then pick over it at your leisure. With tech like that, copyright is going to make about as much sense as having to obtain the rights to breathe air-- for each individual atom.

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
  82. Re:Precaustions. by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hey Ray, Would you care to state, for the record, that you love life and don't have any - you know - suicidal tendencies, or that you don't like to partake in high risk activities? Just in case something.... unfortunate happens. If anything happens to me, you can pretty well figure out who did it.

    And for the record, I do love life, have no suicidal tendencies, and never engage in high risk activities.

    However it could be argued that my entry into this arena may have displayed some masochistic tendency.
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  83. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Funny

    Planned parenthood.

  84. From the previous case ... by Rudisaurus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just out of interest: has Ms. Cassin decided whether to pursue a claim for attorneys' fees as a result of the previous suit being dropped?

    Boy, if this doesn't convince her to go after them, nothing will. I'd be feeling a little vindictive myself!

    --
    licet differant, aequabitur
  85. Disbarments by roninamano · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, here in New York we do see a string of lawyers getting disbarred. Usually these are very young, or very NOT-powerful lawyers, getting sacked for some very minor crap- missing a deadline, good faith mediation between two friends/ clients.

    On the other hand, one of the most powerful Landlord attorneys (I think named partner from Borah, Goldstein) used his subpoena powers to improperly and secretly invade tenant's financial privacy, perjured his affidavits of service that stated he mailed copies of the subpoenas to both sides, violated undiscoverable tenant financial/ ID theft level information, and benefited financially from his unethical and criminal conduct. Penalty after being found guilty for over a decade of outrageous conduct? Two months suspension and a pat on the back. Currently back in action. This is a major named partner mind you. If he's not the example then who is? Note- two month suspension is rumored to have come with free airplane tickets for worldwide junket and room and board covered all courtesy of the Bar(s) here. A two month paid vacation for criminal conduct? New York Bar in action.

    Contrast. Young lawyer panics, misses deadline for litigation that could be nunc pro tunc extended retroactively any damn way. Penalty- permanent disbarment and vicious public tongue lashing in the Law Journal.

    Representing adversaries- lawyer, my lawyer. Gets disbarred for representing both sides (decent guy, bad choices). His firm, my firm, then represents the other side against me in a related action to the one he represented me in. USCA Second Circuit 3-judge panel- it's AOK despite having my litigation file- even after a state judge ruled they were indeed my attorneys defending against the slumlords. And even after they bailed from another case when Judge Reena Raggi ordered the matter investigated. So in New York, state and federal, serving up an associate as sacrifice is all it takes.

    Last but not least. Stephen Romer, most famous NY client funds case circa 1992- his case inspired the set up of NY's IOLTA scheme after his case depleted the fund. He was the landlord of my office, and while he did not try to evict me personally, he evicted my staff (the Dúnedai) who then built me my own office in the years before the Black Tower (a/k/a White & Case) took up arms to defend me from the demon Nemisis (not Nemesis) at the Pale High Priest's bidding. (Lord of the Rings makes law sooooo much more interesting.) This successful and rich lawyer who owned swaths of property claimed to have been kidnapped, robbed, and otherwise mishandled, but without so much as a peep became a non-entity. He claimed that powerful car companies had crushed his efforts to create a new car line of efficient cars. His claim was deemed ludicrous and absurd. He was railroaded into jail without so much as a lawyer friend helping him. Total pariah- gone. Romer, a man of wealth, a philanthropist, adopted father of Sudanese children, suddenly was toxic.

    But I, for whom his eviction of my crew certainly did not endear me, sat scratching my head in my new office. Why was his claim so easily dismissed? It is no secret that the mighty Darth Nader, before turning to the dark side, defeated the Greedy Monster in the Supreme Court for doing all of the things that Stephen Romer claimed. Nader v. General Motors. It's a classic case- we know that the auto industry has a history of that sort of conduct. Romer did actually have mobilized plans to start up a real eco-friendly car company. Surely someone should pursue the possibility? Well, not I, my own problems with an evil High Priest and a demon that makes Balrogs look lapdogs in comparison.

    My point here is that any attorney who aspires to be clean, or philanthropic, or ethical in any way, shape, or form, can find himself or herself the sacrificial lamb for other attorney's crimes. And when you actually do something wrong, as a clean attorney you get hit with the max every time, while blatant crooks prance around unscathed bragging about the Bar's "self-policing".

  86. Re:I'm not a lawyer, so someone please explain thi by bhiestand · · Score: 2, Funny

    No you're not. Unless the collapsing thing was a design failure. I am having a hard time finding a case where collapsing would be considered a design feature, rather than a design failure. A bridge to RIAA headquarters?
    --
    SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
  87. Re:Precaustions. by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Funny

    pain is best felt alive pain is only felt alive
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful