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Japan Imposes "Fine On Fat"
An anonymous reader writes "A recently-introduced law in Japan requires all businesses to have mandatory obesity checks (video link) for all their employees and employees' family members over the age of 40, CNN reports. If the employee or family member is deemed obese, and does not lose the extra fat soon, their employer faces large fines. The legislated upper limit for the waistline is 33.5" for men, and 35.5" for women. Should America adopt universal health insurance, could we live to see the same kind of individual health regulations imposed on us by the government? By comparison, the average waistline in America in 2005 was 39 inches for men, 37 inches for women."
Do you smoke?
Do you drink?
Drug tests?
Any of this sound familiar in a survey from your insurance application or work orientation pack?
) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
The question is specious: there are dozens of countries with public health care, but they don't have such crazy restrictions (including your neighbour, Canada). I chalk it up to a Japanese culture that accepts such a standard. And don't give me the fat-people-will-cost-me-more in a public system argument, because they are costing you more in a private system, unless fatter people at your work pay more for their insurance plan...
While "big boned" is a complete cop out, there are people with naturally larger waists... or worse yet, hormonal/glandular issues...
Well wow, that's just dumb. Didn't they read that smokers and fat people cost the government less thank skinny people?. The study was done by the Dutch, and their healthcare is mandatory private (like people are talking about for the US) supplemented by socialized healthcare for people who are elderly or unable to otherwise function, so I'd think they'd have a pretty good idea of what the costs are. //Sorry about the stupid dashes. Goddamn system isn't taking my paragraph breaks.
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Sure, the smokers and fat people have more health problems, but they have the decency to drop dead and not linger on the government dime, senile and incontinent, for a few extra decades.
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I try to keep healthy, but when I hit the point where I'm not enjoying life much any more, I'm eating whatever the hell I want, taking up heroin. I'll be mainlining viagra II, and having sex with the kind of scary women that'd have sex with me! You see these articles coming out of Florida about old guys getting arrested for trying to buy drugs, just for the hell of it, and I don't understand what the problem is. This society is so fricking weird; god forbid you threaten your own ability to live to 110.
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Life is one of those things where it's really about quality, not quantity.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Once the government is in charge of health care, they have a responsibility to manage every part of your life which effects your health. You may only eat and drink healthy products. No more smoking. Safe cars only. No motorcycles! These will all be necessary to combat the increased cost that government control of health care will create.
I had the impression this sport was hugely popular over there (got that from reading Freakonomics). Will they make an exception for wrestlers?
"Fine on fat" has nothing to do with universal health coverage. It has everything to do with bad policy and even worse laws (not to mention stupid lawmakers).
There are tons of countries in the world today with universal health coverage who don't engage in that kind of stupid law making.
Then again, it is mostly accepted these days that being overweight is bad for you, in all kind of different ways, so maybe a tax on fat is not such a bad idea, especially if human fat is recycled into bio-fuel. Fight Club, anyone?
Besides, wait until they apply this law to the sumotori... and the howls of outrage from the sumo-loving japanese public... :-)
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
I don't think this has anything to do with people being overweight at its core. This is more likely an anti western culture move to try to stop Japan from becoming more like America. There have been similar proposals made to try to make western style toilets more expensive so they will not be commonly used. Older Japanese are generally worried that Japan is losing its culture and that tends to lead to strange laws made in an attempt to stop the so called slide. The law itself is rather stupid idea though and I don't think it's likely to be in place 5 years down the road unless the penalty is a lot lighter than it sounds at face value.
The comparison to American waistlines is specious, as Americans are (quite literally) bigger-boned. The average height in the States is quite a bit higher than that in Japan. It's indisputable that U.S. skeletal structures are different.
BMI would be a better comparison, and body fat % an even better one.
Even with private health insurance, those who live unhealthy lifestyles have the net effect of increasing insurance premiums for everyone.
The insurance companies maintain profitability by selecting price points that set them ahead, given all of the expenses they are likely to incur. The more fat people they have on their plans, the more likely they are to spend money on all the fat-related medical issues that arise, so the more they must charge.
While it may be unfair to target fat people (or smokers or drinkers or what-have-you), isn't it equally unfair to make healthy people pay a lot of extra money to support the unhealthy lifestyles of their neighbors?
As usual, this door swings both ways, and it doesn't matter whether the health care is universal or privatized...any kind of medical insurance raises these issues.
"We don't know how much it would, but studies from cigarette taxes show that increases costs decrease consumption of even highly desirable things."
So fewer and fewer people are getting what they desire, because other anonymous people don't desire it and would like to force them into a position where they can't afford their desires! What an idiotic and indefensible notion.
"Obesity increases fuel consumption -- the obese eat more (more food transport and production fuel use) and weigh more (more transport costs in themselves)."
If they can afford the food, who's to tell them they should be allowed to eat it. What happened to "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness"?
"And yes, their health care costs us -- we should be getting some of that back."
Only if you choose to be part of the system. The difference between that and a publicly-funded system is that you have no choice.
"A small tax..."
It is not the size that matters. Forcibly taking away someone's productivity (in the form of money) is no different from theft.
While it may be unfair to target fat people (or smokers or drinkers or what-have-you), isn't it equally unfair to make healthy people pay a lot of extra money to support the unhealthy lifestyles of their neighbors?
So, what if I have good genes.... and you have bad? If we are willing to open up the can of worms of risk assignment, then why should we ignore science and not surcharge those people who have doomed genetics? What, exactly, entitles people with weaker genes to a health discount at the expense of someone else?
This is my sig.
Wooo hooo, there we go, solve the problem of government not getting enough money out of people's pockets by finding new and VERY inventive ways to tax the shit out of them! There you go, central planning brilliance at work!
Just deserts. Worship governments and authoritarian thugs, and they will reach into your mind and body after they're done cleaning out your pockets and home.
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
Considering thinking of all taxes as a bad idea, but classifying some of them as necessary.
Thanks.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
This is preciously the DUMB FUCK SUGGESTIONS you get when government creeps into our lives. Now that Government is paying the bill, everyone thinks they can tell you what to do. If people were responsible for the for their own selves, then who cares what they do as long as it does not affect me (i.e. get high or drunk and kill someone).
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to think "profiling is worse than the slaughter of innocent people..."
And who gets to decide what is junk food?
Many insurance companies give people physicals and tend to cherry pick the best and most healthy individuals. With a universal system this would be reduced a great bit so we would probably see less regulations on peoples life style. I support universal health care but not these kinds of regulations. Education is a part of the solution, helping people understand how to eat a health diet. Ironically, it is americans workaholic busy lifestyle that leaves little time for exercise. If we gave people better pay, shorter work days and more vacation time, that would lead to a healthier population. The better pay would also mean better food. Many people eat a largely carbohydrate diet because that is the cheapest but that can lead to obesity. I think there is a lot of opposition to higher pay shorter work weeks and universal health care since it deconsolidates wealth and increases the overall well being of the general population but gets in the way of a few rich elites hoarding vast wealth.
You cannot control your genes.
You CAN control your obesity, alcoholism, and smoking.
That's complete crap. There are different body types, mesomorph, ectomorph, endomorph and combinations of those, but even if you're an endo(easiest to gain fat of the 3), you CAN still become thin if you try. It does take work and you might hate the naturally skinny people(ecto) but you can't blame all your fat on just your genetics. The fat people I've seen have entirely themselves to blame. You don't see a fat person eating an 1800 calorie diet. A lot of the time they skip breakfast or lunch and pig out at night before they go to bed. Or they eat a huge fast food meal of at least half of their entire daily caloric intake in a single sitting.
That's complete crap. I see it every day, and the results were (when following the USDA's food recommendations) lack of energy, more susceptibility to illness and infections, and increased vertigo, balance problems, and other neurological symptoms.
That's what happened when my SO and I tried to eat according to the USDA's food pyramid AND limit our intake to about 1600 calories per day (per the doctor's recommendation).
Right now, my partner and I are attempting to change our diet to one that's more in line with the Zone recommendations (mostly because a true high-protein diet is WAY too expensive), but (as has been mentioned by numerous other posters) the cost of fresh vegetables and fruits is so high that eating the USDA's high-starch diet is much more affordable.
Regardless, your claim that fat people do not eat 1800 calories per day is pure concentrated bullcrap.
Gun control: The belief that a woman, raped and strangled with her panties, is morally superior to a dead rapist.
If fat people could control their weight merely by exerting a reasonably amount of conscious control over their diets (i.e., will power), they would. Being fat is a miserable fucking experience, and no one would put up with it if they didn't have to.
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
"If fat people could control their weight merely by exerting a reasonably amount of conscious control over their diets (i.e., will power), they would"
Yet they can do exactly that and choose not to. Why are you saying "they would" when it's obvious to everyone that they don't?
"Being fat is a miserable fucking experience, and no one would put up with it if they didn't have to."
And yet THEY DO PUT UP WITH IT, despite your vacuous assertion otherwise. Why are you claiming "no one would put up with it" when it's obvious to everyone that they do, in total opposition to your point.
You seem to be claiming fat people can't control their weight through dietary choices and exercise and that were someone fat, they wouldn't choose to remain that way if they didn't have to.
To quote YOU "do you realize how incredibly fucking stupid that steaming pile you splattered on my screen sounds"?
If you don't take care of your body, and you become an expensive data point in your insurance system, you raise the premiums for everyone else. We all seem to generally agree on that. We disagree on what, if anything, should be done to make the system more "fair."
Likewise, if you don't raise your kid right and he becomes a murdering thug, you lower the quality of life for everyone else. Should your performance as a parent be judged, fined, taxed, regulated too? The societal impact of poor parenting is at least as great as that of too many cheeseburgers.
Personally, I will grudgingly pay for Mr. Unhealthy's insurance, and I will sadly let the person next door loose a brood of poorly socialized amoral goons on the world, because I think the alternative--trying to fix things--will end up being worse.
As for your own case, good for you! I've been working on it for 30 years and still don't have it licked...
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."