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France Seeks To Push 3-Strikes Law Across Europe
quanticle writes "As you may recall, France previously threatened to cut off broadband access for file sharers. However, after lobbying by the public, the legislation failed in the National Assembly. Now, the government of Nicolas Sarkozy is trying to revive the the measure by pushing it as an amendment to the pan-European Telecoms Package. This amendment has the potential to impose 3-strikes across Europe, not just in France."
well i doesn't really affect me, im american... damn
where's my openssl.conf
I don't like those recent initiatives. First G8 tries to stir things, now France spreads the badness. Not that any of these ideas is going to work, but you never know with those damn politicians. And i do live in Europe, you know.
Lobbying from the PUBLIC seems to have an effect there.
Why are politicians so retarded?
You are there to represent the people and your country. If you find yourself having to subvert the will of your public, your constitution, your own justice system etc., then take that as a big fucking clue that YOU ARE WRONG and the best way for you to help is to STFU.
Sarkozy is the worst leader in EU since Berlusconi.
At a technical level this appears similar to China's Internet meddling in that it will always be defeatable and the chances of being caught are never going to be especially high. Given that, what is the point?
Given that it appears to be a way of judgment without a court involved, I cannot say I'm a fan. In any case, life without Internet is not really possible (you may even be required to do it in dealings with the government), so third strike should be no more severe than throttling speeds to near 14 k modem speeds. Enough to be major nuisance, but not cut off completely
Bert
The french law project which establishes an independant authority with power to ban users from the Internet (by cutting the Internet access) after three strikes has not failed to pass in the National Assembly : IT STILL HASN'T BEEN EXAMINED THERE !
It is scheduled to be examined soon by the Senate first and then eventually by the National Assembly. You can read it there in french : http://www.senat.fr/leg/pjl07-405.html
What is true is that right now the French ISP association (including every french ISP), the web services association (including Google, Microsoft, Yahoo! and such), the commission in charge of regulating telecommunications, the commission in charge of the defense of privacy and several others have all said they were against this law.
Besides, even though I can imagine Nicolas Sarkozy being pleased if there were european legislation copying his ideas, I don't see any particular lobbying from his part in the European Parliament. Just look at the amendments and who wrote them (in the IMCO, ITRE or LIBE committee).
http://www.laquadrature.net/files/amendements-compromis_ITRE-IMCO_7juil/
And I'm not even speaking of the usual fierce independance of MEP toward national governments. They're much nicer with regular lobbying groups, in this case the music and movie industries.
Ok, so there are lobby groups and I can even understand that the *AA need to protect their rights to some degree.
But how the hell did they convince Nick Sarkozy to make it his mission to get this law passed across Europe?
What irritates me the most is that I'm sitting here in Germany, NOT France and there's a good reason for that. They're a bunch of bureaucratic, cheese crazed socialists and that's not the sort of place I want to live in.
I'm sure the whole damn country (of France) would go on some idiotic strike if another european country (England comes to mind) tried to enforce one of their laws over there.
Viva la resistance!
This rule would still have to be approved by the European Parliament for it to become law. If you're an EU citizen, do like the FA says and write your MEP:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/members.do?language=EN
drill down the map until you get to the member page; there are three postal addresses at the bottom of page. I'd either write to them in Brussels or their constituency address, since they're only usually in Strasbourg once a month. There's an email contact too, at the top.
On a side note, I've actually been in the mailroom at the EP building in Brussels, and it's really nice. It's in a prominent position right on one of the main corridors between the offices and the hemicycle.
Semantics,
France Seeks To Push 3-Strikes Law Across Europe ...pushing it as an amendment to the pan -European Telecoms Package. This amendment has the potential to impose 3-strikes across Europe, not just in France.
Across, doesn't mean all of Europe, it simply means it stretches across Europe, sorta like the Trans-Canada Highway... goes across Canada, however, it doesn't reach all the Provinces, and actually only covers a really small area of it land-wise.
Pfff, we don't take laws from that hypocrite. He's had more that 3 strikes on his neck because of his reforms and he's still in office...
Being Irish I wasn't too proud of the results of the referendum we had for the recent Lisbon Treaty.
I hope that we can redeem ourselves by scuppering that twat's plans again but for the right reasons this time round..
Sarkozy should stick to diddling his wife and not with our affairs.
How about enforcing stricter bathing laws at home? Or roll out general guidelines for grooming?
(tongue firmly in cheek)
Because I am.
Curiously, some French politicians are brilliant, but they're not part of the French government.
A French "European deputy" (for lack of a better name) has opposed this three-strike legislation, arguing (rightly so imho) that "an industry that is not able to make do with new consumer habits [the Internet]" shouldn't impose its rules to the government. The French government hasn't listened.
Michel Rocard is famous for opposing software patents. The French government hasn't listened.
French automobile club leaders, the least of which is not the president of the ACO (Automobile Club de l'Ouest, supervising the 24 hours of Le Mans) said that the pollution tax is a mistake, because one already exists and that's the TIPP (Taxe Intérieure sur les Produits Pétroliers, Internal Tax on Petrol-derived Goods, for lack of a batter name) that one pays for each centilitre of gasoline/Diesel in the tank, and that there's no reason than a guy driving only 3000 miles a year in his Ferrari should pay more than one driving ten times that in his Diesel Renault Logan. The French government doesn't listen.
Just, where has common sense gone?
Maybe so, but we saved your asses against the British. So what if we like our cheese and whine ?? So what if our women have armpit hair (is that the monkey reference ??). So what if we surrender now and again ?? You would not be celbrating July 4th if it were not for us, the French.
And the public generally supports Protectionist policies, which any one who knows anything about economics (or a takes a brief look at history) knows doesn't work.
no to mention that in france leaders apparently have the common decency to tell you that your being screwed.
Fuck you, Nicolas Sarkozy!
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
Not ALL EU legislation is "unwanted". For example, the laws that allow me (as a British citizen) the RIGHT to live and work wherever I please within the EU (right now I happen to be in Sweden) are pretty sweet.
In france politicians push laws, In soviet russia the law push politicians !
You people had better not be sharing that illegal copy of Linux distro on your file sharing software!!! Three times you share that and we'll shut you down and ban you from any Internet connections for the rest of your life!!!
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
... is a lot like a George W. Bush where the fundie bits would have been replaced with actual smarts. Which possibly makes him a more dangerous man still.
People, American or French, British or German or Finnish or Chinese or Brazilian, whoever you are: this might be our clue that the game stopped being this country against that country. In the new game, it's us all against the self-selected elites that would rule us. And we may only make progress if we stand together. Not that I expect to see it happen in my lifestyle, mind you, but here's to hope.
errr... could it be that big companies, by definition, pay a lot of tax to the government, and create a lot of jobs. If a government is not looking after big companies, its likely not looking after the economy either, and not surprisingly, that would be a bad move.
There are people whose jobs depend on IP law. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of them. Those people vote, and pay taxes.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
82 % of the college students is against the current copyright system. Exactly the same group, are supposed to be the rulers of the world, by "Tomorrow"
Almost all EU country's have a so called Pirate Party, their target is something i probably don't need to explain.
Towards the US citicens i would like to say, that their leaders are a bunch of hypocrits. & I can tell you why !
I quote from your constitution : "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
This is a contradiction since exclusive rights no longer promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, or atleast not always do.
What this means is, that the current US copyright laws are against their own constitution.
And he made the trains run on time!
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
How is that legal? How can someone who's a representative of his people legally push an agenda thats already been shot down by the people?
Is there a word for that?
Is 'violating the public trust' a crime if your an elected official?
If this was already shot down by their assembly, dudes got a big set of brass ones to try this stunt.
Guess who's not getting reelected!
Kind of ironic to say that on the day that France won the USA's independance.
How about if a french "youth" burns 3 cars, they actually get sent to jail?
France has been suffering from a wave of "youths" burning cars. Last new year's eve, there was around 300 cars burned. French police were happy, since that is quite a drop from previous years.
There's http://www.i2p2.de , http://gnunet.org and others. Why should anyone worry?
It about money. the *AA has lots of it. Politicians listen to money.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I don't understand how the use of file sharing software immediately implicates the user as a pirate. As you all know, many thing are made available for download with torrents.
They would either have to go after everyone detected using a file sharing protocol (with no knowledge of what the contact was) or somehow determine what was being download, which would take much more resources. Either way, it's impractical.
What's the difference between downloading a free eBook or a copyrighted one? A Linux ISO or a Windows ISO? A copyrighted game or a patch for the same game? The differences are very slight and most torrent trackers provide all of this content together without differentiating.
So are they basically saying the use of torrents would be illegal in the EU (if this law was passed)? Direct content from legitimate companies, would be all we would could legally access?
A telling fact is that his popularity after one year in office has plumetted to levels never seen in France.
That's totally wrong. It was France and Spain.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
...European issues, particularly issues of transparency. I'm glad the Irish had the guts to throw away the stupid mistake that was the Lissabon pact. It would have reduced transparency a lot (come on, 200+ pages of legalese as a constitution?! You've got to be kidding!), which we need more of and not less! In most countries in the EU, the EU and the way it operates seems to be a distant thing, barely interrupting the constant stream of local politics. The positions some parties take on European issues are often the result of internal, local, interior pacts and struggles.
Highly annoying that it has come to this. Sarkozy is just another fool, but with power.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
I thought the French had (marginally) more sense than the anglosphere in their choice of politician. Sarkozy just strikes me as a neoconservative dick.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
I thought poetry was the unique preserve of left-leaning intellectuals until I discovered the music of Carla Bruni. Somehow she found poetry compatible with the instincts of the neo-conservative and set it all to music. Lots of people seem happy to file share her music, not that I will be 'daring' to do so myself.
Unique amongst the politicians Sarkozy has a vested interest in file sharing. It will be interesting to see if this ever gets a mention.
Is baseball that popular in France?
As for college students, maybe if they were better informed as to what copyright accomplishes, they would have a different opinion. Seriously, is that even an argument? Most college students I know also fail to understand what comparative advantage is. By your reasoning, we should implement protectionist measures immediately since, eventually, these students will rule the world. Or maybe the 18% of students who support the current copyright system will be the rulers of the world?
...the need for leaders to offer leadership, and set the direction of the people, vs. the possibly self-destructive will of the people?
An unfiltered lumpen proletariat, in the US case, could choose to drive SUVs until the economy completely dies.
That's why, irrespective of whether you agree with Al Gore's central point, there is value in having prominent people assume a leadership role and try to steer the ship of state in more useful directions.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
A true democracy never proposes artificial and unenforceable laws that goes agains the freedom and will of the majority (majority = democracy) of their citizens. If such a crap like this is even proposed those proposing it should be have their salaries as politicians confiscated.
I propose a three strikes for politicians law: if you pass crappy laws that goes againts the people will then all your earnings as politicians are confiscated and you are no longer welcome in the country were the laws were proposed.
You know, Europe's government is starting to sound more and more like the USA's to me?
In this case, I'm referring to when a special interest(IE the ones trying to push punitive punishments for minor copyright infringers), failing to get what they want on the state level, going to the federal level to change it.
Happening right now with the anti-gay marriage* types in California. Since the ruling they've started pushing for federal law, or a state constitutional amendment banning it(only way to overrule a supreme court).
It's only a matter of time before the powers of individual nations start being subsumed over the larger one. Oh, and individual's rights are trashed one way or another. The problem with a national government of the sort of the EU is it becomes far more difficult for the people to affect things. I mean, at least the US has the advantage that we all more or less speak the same language.
I noticed another poster lamenting the representative democracy we have vs direct democracy. Personally, I think that in large systems a representative form is generally best. The rest of us don't have the time to go reading through the various spending bills and such. Still - at this point we COULD afford, rather easily, to have all 'major' legislation end up before the people. I'm talking about things like changes to common law(like gay marriage), criminal law(murder, theft, etc), overall budget(what the representatives are allowed to spend this year). The representatives worry about regulation, splitting up the budget they're authorized, and negotiating changes to the law to be put before the people next election.
*Don't want to touch this with a ten foot pole, but my general position is that the .gov shouldn't be in the marriage business at all. Civil Unions backed up by proper contract law, and if you want to call yourself married, find a priest, rabbi, mullah, witch, druid, or whatever to perform the ceremony.
I don't read AC A human right
History books are waiting for you.
Hackers have long memories. It works both ways.
and the law is Vladimir Putin.
The most dangerous drug
I wonder what will be the opinion of the European ISPs about this mess, when clients of their 16MB+ subscriptions start to quit/change to 2MB...
"A sysadmin is a cross between a detective, a police officer, a gardener, a doctor and a fireman"
There used to be a load of money in selling CDs full of cracked warez or mp3s.
When everyone worked out you could just download the same from the net, the bottom dropped out of the market.
A few years of people being kicked off the net for downloading, and the CD trade will be alive and kicking again!
Shame most of the money will be going to the professional pirates and organized crime, but I hope us small time dealers will get back to normal sales again as well.
Isn't Sarkozy the chap who has a big announcement/idea/plan every minute of the day and absolutely none of them actually go anywhere?
Is so, then nothing to see here, folks, keep moving along.
Le fuck you France!
We want to stop piracy, but instead of investing energy in sales, we invest energy in piracy (or actually, moving it further and deeper underground).
Next thing we know we'll have a piracy mob, prepared to kill to make sure they are not exposed! How nice.
Does the music industry even care? Of course not! All they care about is their falling profits. Well, they'll keep falling, because they're making sure the people will hate them (and thus avoid buying their products or working for them).
99% college students have fuckin zero clue and even less experience.
Watch their views change drasticaly once they hit the real world.
COuntries without copyright laws are easy to recognize - they are also know as fuckign third world.
Both you & the article submitter are mistaken.
As the three strike law has not been withdrawn is on it's way to becoming a law by the end of this summer. France has more than it's share of unpopular laws being passed by a ruling class disconnected from what the public wants.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
It's the JEWS, stupid. It's the JEWS who own the media, including the 'entertainment' industries. We can't have them doing manual labour, can we? We can't have people swapping LEGITIMATE FREE music using P2P, can we? Think of the poor, helpless JEWS who just happen to be the richest people on Earth, and are living like parasites in every (rich) white country on Earth, running OUR governments and telling US what to think and do...
Since copyright gives an incentive to create, I'd say it does promote the progress of the arts.
Does it? What incentive does a copyright larger than 3-5 years give to create. In actuality it is the opposite, as you can rely on income from past creations instead of creating new ones. 3-5 years is the time I mention, because no investor would plan ahead longer than that except in a few rare exceptions mostly relating to huge constructions.
Incidently the swedish pirate party program currenly aims for a 5 year term for commercial use, although with no restriction on non commercial use. Also, certain "rights" such as the right to be recognized as the creator goes beyond those 5 years.
Is this the best solution. Maybe, maybe not. All we know is that it got to be better than the current system that intends to criminilize a large portion of the population for sharing information.
This is Sarkozy doing this. I've heard French people call him a fascist and compare him unfavorably to George W. Bush. Unfortunately, he somehow managed to get elected. I believe it was due to preying on their fear of Muslim immigrants and French nationalism.
In other words, he really is a lot like Bush and there are lots of French people who really hate him, just not quite enough to keep him from power.
Thankfully, I'm not French nor am I in France, so I'm not covered by the laws against saying nasty things about their politicians. Therefore, I would like to express my fond hope that he manages to get a rusty chainsaw shoved where the sun doesn't shine.
[the Trans-Canada Highway] doesn't reach all the Provinces
By looking at the very map you link to, the Trans-Canada Highway does reach all the Provinces.
What it doesn't do is reach any of the Territories.
What's for sure is that if the corrupt measure came into law, the ass-licking British will be the ones that will implement it to-the-letter, just like all the other idiot EU laws - "to be good Europeans", and will be the only idiot country* to bother implementing it.
* Yes I know Britain is a collection of countries not just one country.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
except that they do work when done properly.
what do you think gates and sarkozy discussed during their dinner date?
sum.zero
There is another option. We are currently represented by professional politicians. Their expertise is politics - not copyright, technology, economics, what have you. Yet they make critical decisions about specialized fields. They are not necessarily less ignorant (I see people saying "stupid") about these issues than the ordinary voter.
It is folly to expect the mass of the population to be able to be sufficiently expert on every issue to make an informed decision. But it is no less unrealistic to expect professional politicians to be experts. (There are additional problems, like the corruption of professionals or the inability of masses to delegate expertise.)
However, it is possible to have democracy without professional politicians or mass votes. Following a jury model, such proposals argue that decisions should be made by groups of ordinary citizens who come together to learn about a specific issue. They draw on experts and expertise, then make what they believe is the best decision - and then they disband. They are not corrupted by being professional, and they are not expected to acquire expertise in many fields.
Here is Benjamin Barber arguing for what he calls "strong democracy":
How well this would work I don't know. I do know professional politicians (as a group) would fight tooth and nail to prevent it.
Now that the French hate information I suppose the rest of Europe should follow suit. Seems to be a bit psycho to take information and make it illegal. reminds me of the Inquisition trying desperatly to force people to believe that the sun revolves around the earth.
Old europe happily bringing about the conditions that created massive wars and massive destruction by blocking the free flow of communication and information. Total control equals total tyranny. Which brings about global war. Since they can't get you to go to war for them they will now make you live a life of exclusion. The taboos must be enforced and the heathens kicked out of the holy church of tryanny.
Here comes professional disabling, an attempt by "experts" to project amature and inferiority upon the masses and to make their media a one way communication. Actually this could create more dysfunction more crashing of economies. Who would want to contribute anything to a society that excludes free expression and free speech? Oligarchy here they come. Anarchy will be the reaction of course and these people are already agent provocaturing by trying to exclude criticism. They only want their ideas and solutions to be followed and known. Instead of increase of knowledge and communication these governments are advocating anti-communication, anti-freedom, anti-intellectualism.
I wrote it was an average. You know, indefinite article? You know, which implies there's are several, of which this is but one? I even named some other measures that are also averages. See that last word, in the plural? Is the concept that average is a generic, nonspecific term sinking in yet?
It's like I said dogs are mammals, and you're saying they can't be, because cats are.
No. The mean is 10, specifically, the arithemetic mean. If you knew anything about statistics that's the term you'd use, unless you were intending to mislead. (It's a pretty well known book, see chapter two)
That's a low id for someone who clearly hasn't graduated highschool yet.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Looks like France is now in line for another Hitler. Will it be Sarcozy? Only your hairdresser knows for sure.