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HP Shatters Excessive Packaging World Record
An anonymous reader writes "HP customers will be familiar with their bizarre packaging practices (5 pounds of packaging for 8 license keys!); lets just say this story is not an isolated incident ... " I've seen some excessive packaging, but perhaps nothing to top this.
I've seen something crazy, but not that crazy. That's just ... crazy.
And I thought the MSDN CDs ya get posted were bad.
They come in a box about the size of an Eee PC (but taller), and contain just a CD in a sleeve cover.
Cost of shipping 150$?
Sounds about typical for HP. Back many years ago when I was primarily an HP-UX SA, excessive packaging was the norm as well.
"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
Often times when you ask the shipping department to take care of a package containing hardware, let's say in a 12 x 12 x 4 cube, they are nice enough to protect by putting it in a box with extra padding. Sometimes, when you note it's out of IT and don't notice it's already reboxed, they'll do it again.
This is not that unusual. Clearly they ship out their licenses in a box. I'd just use an envelope like those free ones from the shipping companies. But why ask why, put it in a box. Got many boxes? Put the boxes in a box.
Why not be thoughtful and put 32 pages in one box? This presumes the shipping department knows what's in the box, and even they know, why would they want to deal with all these extra boxes when they can ship them off to the customer.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
My experience with HP have been increasingly disappointing. Recently I contemplated the purchase of an HP network printer / scanner. Most network printers with an integrated scanner implement the scanner as a host-based scanner over USB. The HP unit I found seemed to be the exception. Until I read the data sheet more closely. The network scanner degrades resolution to 200dpi. For full resolution scanning, dust off your host-based USB interface. What I found annoying about this is that the brochure blithely advertised "network scanning" as fully supported.
I have a colleague who swears by HP at the enterprise level, but at this point, I wouldn't buy a consumer level appliance unless I had first exhausted the alternatives.
(Posting anonymously for obvious reasons)
When working for a spin-off of HP, we did a licence audit and decided we needed 500 or so C++ compiler licences for compliance. Order them. Expect a single A4 sheet back saying we're covered.
Instead, we get a pair of huge 2m x 2m x 2m boxes, on shipping palets, containing 500 smaller A4-sized cardboard boxes, each containing an A4 paper licence. This was soul-destroying fail of the highest level and led me down the path to BOFH-dom.
Recycling cardboard is often worse for the environment than not recycling. Landfills sequester carbon and recycling uses harsh chemicals AND WILL SOMEONE PLEASE FIX THIS DAMN COMMENT WINDOW BUG!?
Remind me to never request a printed manual from HP. Every page would be in a different box.
Now that is _truly_ dirty paging. Yikes!
Ever tried ordering a 100-page printer manual from HP? I ran out of space in my lawn after the third trailer truck arrived...
Futurama Madhouse
Actually I thought DEC just got chewed up and spat out.
I can recall getting DEC licence paks in envelopes, and reasonably sized boxes of CDs. I don't recall anything excessive at all.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
.
I repeat: 1 roll of scotch tape in an huge box full of peanuts. Shipping was free.
P.S. I have have the receipt but not a picture of the box as it was in 2006.
I recently ordered a pair of servers from Sun. The power cords and the addon nic each came in seperate boxes in a 2'x2'x1' box for each server. At least the outer box wasn't filled with peanuts.
I feel like being forced to download HP's 600MB installer just to get one printer driver is the software equivalent of this packaging phenomenon.
HP : Hewlett Packard, Heaped Packaging, Heavy Paper, Hopeless Paperweight, Highly Priced...
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
Tell them you already got your license entitlements via BitTorrent.
Game... blouses.
Weird, I use email to ship keys. Its faster and *much* cheaper.
Happens with a lot of companies I have known. One company ordered around 40 new PCs' from IBM. The PC's arrived from IBM in a pair of 2m x 2m x 2m cube boxes on the inside of the container. The driver asked if our IT department happened to have a forklift truck available as it would save time unloading.
Well, we didn't, so we had to cut open the boxes and make a little door so we could get in - they had been filled to the brim with styrofoam peanuts and promptly flooded the back of the container before spilling onto the parking lot.
Then, one by one we got the monitors and main units out - all two hundred of them. By the time we were finished, there were enough styrofoam peanuts on the ground to visualize the airflow around the building. They would form streamlines and vortices all around the parking lot. It was our job to chase after every single one for recycling.
Now, mail-order companies seem to enjoy putting the smallest items in the largest boxes. Once ordered some new memory cards and hard disk drives. Each order arrived in a large desktop PC sized box filled with large plastic air-bubbles (empty sealed plastic bags filled with nothing but air), styrofoam peanuts or foam padding. In each case, the padding took up about 20 times as much space as the original item.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Yeah, recycling is terrible for the environment. Those harsh chemicals used for recycling are so much worse than the harsh chemicals used to manufacture cardboard in the first place. Not to mention the trees you get to cut down by making new cardboard. If you recycle, those trees will still be in the way somewhere.
This is +1 interesting? Really?
Spooooon!!!!!
At first I thought this was just a prank pulled by someone who didn't like HP, but after reading the comments I seem to have to believe it's true. It makes you see this in a whole new light.
-- Cheers!
The shipping department at HP probably get monitored on how many cubic ft of parcels they handle, with a bonus for the supervisors if they ship more than 300cuft of parcels per day.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
My...that's a big package.
By venturing more than 3 feet into the depths of this 'box' you agree that any encounters that may result between the entrant and any:
I - trolls
II - goblins or
III - beings of origins
a - Extraterrestrial
b - Indeterminate
c - Unknown
are the sole responsibility of the recipient.
Furthermore, you agree that any objects discovered therein, including but not limited to:
I - treasure,
II - artifact,
III - relics of historical significance, or
IV - the shipped product
are to remain the property of HP, inc. in perpetuity and are to be returned with 28 calendar days, with attachment of a check for the full value of any life insurance policies, savings, properties or outstanding paychecks of any of the intended package recipients who may have perished within.
Look at the packaging for a few screws!
EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
Someone named John Robson commented on the story linked by the Slashdot story. He said, "HP should be penalised for that."
No need to worry, John. HP is in a Slashdot story. There will be very capable people, I think, who say to themselves, "Maybe I should apply for a job at HP. Nah, maybe not."
The parent comment says, "My experience[s] with HP have been increasingly disappointing. Recently..."
That's been our experience, too. HP seems to be getting a little better, however, now that Carly Fiorina has left. Before, it was REALLY ugly.
How does excessive packaging happen? It happens because people become so unhappy working for a company that they slip into becoming robotic drones. Nothing matters. They just try to get through each day. Illogical packaging is only one of the many, many illogical things that happen every day. Those people never go to hell, because if they arrive there, Satan says, "You've suffered enough. You don't belong here."
This is the craziest I've ever seen personally.
A box arrived in the mail. It was maybe 10 x 6 x 4 or so. Inside that was a manila envelope. Inside that was a small box, slightly larger than a jewlers ring box. Inside that was a clear plastic pill bottle. Inside that was a small ziploc baggie.
Inside that was ONE styrafoam bead, like from a beanbag chair. it was the replacement foam bead for an anemometer.
There may be a reason behind the practice of shipping single sheets of paper individually boxed. It makes them look important. This policy may have been established following an important customer accidentally tossing licenses or keys out while unpacking s/w manuals and media.
Have gnu, will travel.
If it turned out to have actually contained HP hardware, it would have been a much bigger waste of packaging.
http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
That statement did not sit well with me, so I did some research. Wikipedia seems to indicate that a good chunk of the deforestation done is to produce paper.
Personally, I think hemp should be more commonly used to create paper. It grows quickly, and has many uses. Hell, even the US constitution is written on hemp.
Wow! Looks like HP has gotten more efficient in their shipping.
About ten years ago I get back from lunch to find a huge box at my desk. Typical workstation plus monitor size box from HP with a shipping label was like 4ft+ cube. Was not exactly sure what it was so got to openning it. Inside that box was another slightly smaller box also with a shipping label listing one HP address to another HP address. This went on for quite a while til I got to a small box with padding. (If I recall the stuff have been shipped a total of 5 times adding several boxes each time) Inside that box was a large manila envelope. Inside manila envelope was a white envelope (or might have been the other way around) it has been a while. Inside that was a single 5" by 6" sheet of paper with a single license for the HP-UX 9 C++ compiler.
I had order 5 licenses... the next day another of the licenses came, though at least the outer box was not quite as large. I often wondered if it was either that there shipping system was set up for just sending license keys or if they really wanted to make sure that piece of paper didn't get lost in the mail.
The other odd thing was the licenses didn't include any serial numbers or what not, just the B code number for the software and a statement about it being 1 license.
I worked for HP for several years, so this is personal experience.
For a High Tech company, they are still extremely retarded in the way they handle things.
Here are some examples:
Leave application forms. Go to a website, fill in a form and then print it and fax it to your manager. There is no way to "submit" the form to a database which then emails the manager. I was probably one of the first people to print-to-pdf and email it instead.
Procurement: Once when I moved roles within HP, I needed to order a laptop. So I ordered a laptop, docking station, and carry case. These were standard laptops. The order processing centre was located in Singapore or Malaysia, and so the laptop, the docking station and the carry case were air freighted to me from Singapore even though my office was about 5 Kms from their Warehouse in Sydney.
Paper recycling is pointless. It biodegrades...
Theoretically. Practically, no, not once it goes into a landfill. That's why you can still find readable newspapers from half a century ago.
As a rule, stuff doesn't really biodegrade once it goes to the dump.
I just got hired by HP and I am awaiting for my contract to arrive in the mail. Its taking awhile so I hope its because it will be coming in a huge box like this.
Penn & Teller: Bullshit
Nice source. A second rate Vegas act featuring a fat loudmouth and a mute. And of course they have no political agenda. Guys like this are the reason mainstream voters are frightened of Ron Paul.
Just callin' it like I see it.
From the strength of your opinions I'm guessing you've never seen a paper mill or know that making pulp from trees for use in cardboard creates sulfur dioxide.
'Here is a list of things recycled paper is environmentally better for than virgin paper: less bleaching, less energy, less pollutants, more benign pollutants, less impact on natural resources, less water, less waste to dispose of. The only waste product that is more of a problem with recycled paper is the sludge produced by removing ink and additives. However, this sludge is material that would otherwise be in landfills and it has repeatedly been proven to be non-toxic.'
- From The Society for Natural Resources Conservation, Cornell University
Yeah, I know you're going to come back at me with a quote from Rush Limbaugh or some advertisement you saw on tv... Or dismiss Cornell University as a hippy haven of intellectuals... Whatever.
Large warehouse management systems usually have a "footprint code" (or some other similar term) for all the items in the system that they ship. If someone is lazy and doesn't put one in (or uses some default setting) then the system picks the wrong size box to ship the product. The crew working shipping can't change it so they just ship it and tell the monkeys in charge they've got a bad footprint. *Hopefully* someone cares enough to actually change it to the right code. I've seen 100 CD's go out in 100 separate boxes for this reason.
I remember getting a set of VMS manuals from Digital. It was a very large box, very heavy (a set of VMS manuals weighed over a hundred pounds.) The books didn't fix the box exactly, and in the box was another box, empty, labeled "Empty Filler Box".
-- Of course I'm paranoid. I'm a sysadmin.
As for trees? Do you still think we live in the days of lopping rainforests? Majority of cardboard and paper are harvested from tree FARMS! Fast growing ones designed for making paper
Only in parts of the world where we've already chopped down all the readily available trees.
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
No its the fact that Ron Paul is a nutbar is the reason that people don't like Ron Paul.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Paper also takes energy to produce, as well as recycle. Of course, as the moment something is of interest to environmentalists both the pro and anti sides immediately dash out, cherry pick the data they like from the scientific literature, and then declare the extremes of the range all over the internet, it's very hard to get an accurate assessment of which is better in energy terms by googling - you'll get the extremes and the puff pieces. But to change the views from the consensus does require clear proof (I need numbers, not just people saying it is so in their books), and that appears to be lacking.
Both production and recycling consume water, and use chemicals. But I've regularly seen the claim that recycling uses less chemicals than from virgin wood (including in peer reviewed academic journals), and very rarely seen it the other way around. I'd need a cite from a believable source with evidence that they've actually measured it rather than just declared it.
Paper isn't purely made from trees. There's usually other stuff in it as well (e.g. chalk, china clay).
I am a Oracle Magazine subscriber (free magazine, totally useless but great when I need quality paper for packaging). Once they sent a "special edition" magazine with a promotional CD included; it was sent in a standard A4 envelope. Well, the Oracle guys decided it was a really important CD and sent me another copy, just to make sure. It was in a paper CD envelope, like Ubuntu's free CDs, but the paper was much thinner. The paper envelope was put in bubble wrap, and the bubble wrap was put in a cardboard box the size of a 500-page A4 paper pack. The cardboard box was sent as a DHL package, the delivery was priced something like $20-$30 (paid by Oracle). And the best part? The DHL-shipped version arrived a month later than the copy I received with the magazine (and probably was free for Oracle to ship since they already paid for shipping the magazine).
A while ago, our company ordered an upgraded protocol license for some Intel telecommunications gear.
A few days later, a big box shows up -- I think a 2 x 2 x 2 foot cube. In that box was a wad of packing peanuts, as well as a padded envelope...
When we opened the envelope, we expected to find a license button, which would be physically installed in our equipment. There would be no reason to ship that in a large box, but at least a license button would have been some tangible product that justified shipping.
Alas, the envelope contained no license button after all. Instead, it contained a single sheet of paper complete with instructions on how to access a web site, and a validation code to use. That validation code would then give us an actual license key, which we could then enter into our equipment to unlock the extra protocol features (that were already built in to the equipment).
I can't quite put my finger on it, but something seems a little wasteful here... I'm *sure* if somebody thought hard about this, they could probably find a way to do the whole thing electronically...
Alternatively I expect someone totally bored and with a sense of humour at work.
You are spot on with this comment. The problem with hemp is the fact that it is called hemp and this word is synonymous with marijuana so in the eyes of the public it is bad and for some competing business this is a good thing to foster. What many people fail to realise is that linen which is still a prized fabric is actually made from hemp and linen can last quite a long time (well over 100 years) because of its hard wearing properties (maybe that is why some business don't want to compete with it). Many beneficial products can be made from the hemp plant (not the one you get marijuana from) and today many countries are starting to realise that this plant has been much maligned. For more information on hemp this site is a good start .
Anyway back on topic. I get software informational updates from HP and also from other vendors and most vendors do provide a cardboard box with one or two slips of paper. This IMHO is annoying because I have no use for the box and in many cases the slips of paper are just as useless. From my personal experience the best vendor for reducing waste is Redhat. (others may have different experiences) I only get email advisories which is all I want. Actually many years ago HP did this as well.
Oh and what happened to "quote", even "blockquote" does not work properly?
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
I believe the notion of shipping licenses in boxes started at Digital Equipment Corporation. The idea was that by shipping it in a box, it was less likely to be thrown away (as "worthless paperwork") before reaching the technical person who would understand its value. That idea seems to have survived two changes of corporate ownership, so maybe it's correct.
Paper recycling is pointless. It biodegrades...
Theoretically. Practically, no, not once it goes into a landfill.
Well then, all the better. As long as the stuff stays intact, the carbon in it is sequestered, and we have less of that evil carbon dioxide stuff.
Here's your sig.
Back when HP was Compaq I once received a shipment from them consisting of one 60cm x 100cm x 100cm box completely filled with loose styrofoam packing chips. At the very bottom of the box, where none of the packing material would do it any good at all, was a plastic envelope containing a handful of license keys.
At least the guys who shipped this package made sure that their paperwork was protected from damage. It seems they're learning.
... What many people fail to realise is that linen which is still a prized fabric is actually made from hemp and linen can last quite a long time...
I don't think so. Linen is made from Flax fibres http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linen as a simple wiki reference can confirm. My grandparents grew up in an area where flax was grown for linen production.
It's called the ICC, Intel C Compiler. The reason people pay for it is because it is the fastest damn compiler out there. Every time I see compiler tests done there is always some back and forth, some are faster at one thing, some at others. Newer ones are generally faster than old ones... Then, at the top of the pack, is ICC. It produces the fastest code in EVERY test.
Now if this were Intel marketing material, ok, but this is every test of the compilers I've ever seen done by third parties. Intel's compiler just knows how to produce extremely optimised code for their processors.
As such, it is no surprise that people buy it.
It can also be done more cheaply with Xylene (paint thinner). I just love to see huge chunks of styrofoam melt into a goo! :D Plus if you're really out for a good time, the resulting goo should still be flammable...obviously there are safety and environmental issues there though.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
When I was doing my BS in Bio, one of the profs had a contract to do research for SE Asia - where they do grow hemp for textiles & rope. There were at least 4 Bankers Boxes of paperwork for this project - along with a security greenhouse.
Radioactive materials could be had from the Physics supply closet by asking the work study kid at the window.
Sarcasm is dead. There is no possible way that Chrisje was serious. Any rational person with even a limited exposure to computers and a vague understanding of software would realize that there is no excuse for this type of wasteful packaging behavior from a technology company in this day and age. That comment is ROFLMAO comical. This is *Slashdot*. Have none of you mods ever been around *software*? All this talk of part numbers and order handling and logistics for a tiny bit of *data on paper*? You realize, don't you, that HP could modify the program that generates the data on paper to group, print, and ship rationally? You realize that other companies long, long ago solved this problem, using software? Obviously somebody at some point in their process knew this stuff was all going to the same location at the same time. That's a great place to start looking for how to prevent this particular criminal packaging stupidity. Solving this problem isn't even hard. It just takes the realization that it is a problem, and it can be solved. Chrisje undoubtedly realizes this, and produced a masterful bit of sarcasm, which went right over your heads.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
I once received a large box from HP containing several smaller boxes of stuff. The final one was one of those 9x12x3 boxes other people have mentioned. Inside it was a single sheet of paper that read, in its entirety: This box intentionally empty.
A variable for "marketing splash made by issuing bad marks to a given brand" appears to be given about equal weight to "legitimately wasteful or unnecessarily toxic practices", by Greenpeace. They get far more publicity for issuing a ticket to Apple for using 3 wire-inches of the wrong type of plastic in an iPod model than they would ever get for ticketing HP's stupid behemoth wasteful packaging, which has been seen by every corporate customer of HP. (I've seen strikingly similar examples of insanely wasteful packaging from both IBM and Dell, as well as HP).
Please note that I think Greenpeace is doing the world a service by calling attention to those 3 wire-inches of environmentally unsound plastic, but they need to get a little smarter about who, why and how they critique and praise. They are not doing a very good job of translating the attention that they get from issuing a ticket to Apple, into attention on the issue of the toxic compounds in question. There are zillions of tons of this stuff used in all manner of products and manufacturing processes. These compounds get into the water that we drink and the food we eat, and there is mounting evidence that some of them cause cancer and other serious health problems. Mercury and lead are no longer even controversial, decades of research confirms that even low level exposure to lead can cause serious problems, and probably knocked a bunch of IQ points off generations of exposed people. If, say, 1/4 to 1/2 of our population were 5 or 10 IQ points smarter, how much better off would the world be today? Yet we continue to allow tons of mercury to go up the stacks of coal fired power plants, and smaller amounts to be dumped in lakes and rivers as a result of manufacturing processes. Lead paint shows up on imported children's toys because the west has been willing to circumvent its own environmental policies by exporting the manufacturing to developing nations with un-enforced or non-existent environmental safeguards.
How does this Greenpeace video and press release help educate people and motivate people about these issues? Missed call: the iPhone's hazardous chemicals. Well, it really doesn't. It just gets a bunch of headlines to the effect of "Greenpeace iPhone Smackdown". Greenpeace has figured out that they can get a lot of attention by poking at Apple now and then, but they haven't figured out how to turn that to advantage. They mention a few chemicals here, including phthalates, but they don't mention that these compounds are used in FOOD Containers, which is a much more likely source of exposure to the compound (most people do not eat their iPhones) and that it has been linked to obesity and diabetes ( Obesity In Men Linked To Common Chemical Found In Plastic And Soap )and might be a serious contributor to a global health crisis. Greenpeace could be turning these waves of press attention into a serious national discussion of phthalates, additional research on the topic, and removal of these compounds from food containers, which would be a rational application of the precautionary principle. Instead, they are squandering the opportunity for a few headlines and links to their web site.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Hmmm... you're right. The constitution is not written on hemp.. However, George Washington was still a hemp farmer, and the draft of the declaration of independence was written on hemp (I did get that one mixed up, but hey, I'm not American. hemp farming is legal in my country). And DonaldM probably meant canvas, not linen, but I can't really speak for him.
Regardless, hemp is a very useful plant. And the very first paper mill in your country was started by Thomas Jefferson, and it made paper from hemp. If 35% of the trees cut down are to make paper, don't you think it would make sense to switch back to hemp? That was my original point.