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How Do You Deal With Sensitive Data?

imus writes "Just wondering how most IT shops secure sensitive data (customer records). Most centrally managed databases seem to be monitored and maintained very well and IT workers know when they are tampered with or when unauthorized access occurs. But what about employees who do legitimate selects from these databases and then load CSV files and other text files onto their laptops and PDAs? How are companies dealing with situations where the database is relatively secure, but end-use devices contain bits and pieces of sensitive business data, and sometimes whole segments? Does anyone use sensitive data discovery software such as Find_SSNs or Senf or other tools? Once found, how do you deal with it? Do you force encryption, delete it or prevent extracts?"

226 comments

  1. Sensitive Data by cheebie · · Score: 5, Funny

    I try not to talk loudly around it, and make sure it's emotional needs are met.

    1. Re:Sensitive Data by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Funny

      I try not to talk loudly around it, and make sure it's emotional needs are met.

      No wonder sensitive data is lost so easily in Microsoft Windows... it's still scared of the chairs.

    2. Re:Sensitive Data by value_added · · Score: 1

      I try not to talk loudly around it, and make sure it's emotional needs are met.

      But what about YOUR needs?

      Seems to me that if you're willing to go that far, then it should be happy to go with you everywhere you go. Hallway conversations and performance reviews would be a good start.

    3. Re:Sensitive Data by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Hey mods? I am a VERY optimistic Windows fan and even I found this to be funny and not flamebait. I'm not a fanboi or anything but, if anything the parent post is offtopic and was hoping for a funny mod (I suspect as that's how I found it) but surely isn't meant to incite responses that create dissonance.

      You could say it didn't promote additional communication but it did in that I'm responding to the moderation of it.

      I don't even normally use my mod points because I don't think I'm really that qualified but if you're going to use them then I think you should mod up instead of down. The post above mine was, I'm thinking "obviously" so I'll use that word, obviously meant to be amusing. It wasn't VERY funny or anything but it really wasn't that bad all things considered.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    4. Re:Sensitive Data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I try not to talk loudly around it, and make sure it's emotional needs are met. But what about YOU'RE needs?

      Fixed that for you ;)

    5. Re:Sensitive Data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...no you didn't...

    6. Re:Sensitive Data by armareum · · Score: 1

      Don't worry about down mods, they don't mean too much. Moderations are just aggregates of opinions of a uneven cross-section of the /. crowd (i.e. who has mod points that day, who sees the comment, etc). Most of the time 'bad moderations' are corrected without the need for a post about it. Not that it really matter anyway for myself anyway, since I browse at -1 in order not to miss the posts which have been erroneous modded down.

      --
      Is this a rhetorical question?
  2. Easy by pak9rabid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Pay your employees enough to make protecting your company's data on their computers/PDAs worthwhile.

    1. Re:Easy by QuantumRiff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Try having well written, very clear policies that that kind of action is forbiden. Of course, a piece of paper means crap to most employees, but the first time you fire someone for violating that policy, the grapevine and water cooler will provide more training than a dozen hour long meetings could convey..

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    2. Re:Easy by techno-vampire · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Try having well written, very clear policies that that kind of action is forbiden.

      It's all well and good having policies like that, but if your employees either don't know about them or can plausibly claim they don't know, they won't do any good. Every employee who has, or even might have access to sensitive data should be required to sign a copy of that policy and it should be part of their records. That way, if anything happens, they won't be able to pretend they didn't know they were violating company policy. Depending on local laws, this might help you avoid (or defend) a suit for wrongful termination.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    3. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our company uses full disk encryption and has very clear policies on how to handles sensitive information.

    4. Re:Easy by syousef · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but the first time you fire someone for violating that policy

      Another one that thinks the solution is to fire employees, and gets modded insightful. You know what I get the impression that most slashdotters would make piss poor bosses. Firing employees randomly when they violate a policy to set an example isn't exactly smart.

      Do you know what it costs to hire an employee, and get them up to speed doing their job well? Never mind the fact that the next person you hire to fill the roll might be a dud, or that the job market may mean the position goes unfilled for quite some time. Do you know what it does to morale? That gossip around the water cooler gets people updating resumes and looking for work elsewhere before they're fired for some other petty reason to set an example. Then there's the legal aspect - if you're wanting to avoid unfair dismissal claims providing clear guidelines is just one step - you have to show that the on the spot firing was justified. Then there's the human aspect - unless you're a soul-less piece of shit that cares not a jot about destroying a family's livelihood you may want to look for actions that don't leave people jobless.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    5. Re:Easy by jeiler · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Firing employees randomly when they violate a policy to set an example isn't exactly smart.

      Firing an employee for violating a clearly written, explicitly trained policy is hardly "random."

      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    6. Re:Easy by myowntrueself · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Firing employees randomly when they violate a policy to set an example isn't exactly smart

      I'm sorry but I'm having trouble making sense of your sentence.

      How, exactly, is firing someone for violating a very clear, written and signed policy in the least bit 'random'?

      Maybe you have a different idea of 'random' to the rest of us... just checking.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    7. Re:Easy by SEWilco · · Score: 1, Funny

      the next person you hire to fill the roll

      Fortunately it doesn't tend to take much training to replace a bakery worker. Whether you're filling the rolls by hand or by machine, whoever fills the role should get up to speed quickly.

    8. Re:Easy by glitch23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pay your employees enough to make protecting your company's data on their computers/PDAs worthwhile.

      You can only pay employees so much and it will probably never be able to match what organized crime would pay someone to steal the data. That's where background checks on all employees helps but still not guarantee that you can trust your employees.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    9. Re:Easy by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

      Heh.

      You'll be thrilled to know AT&T seems to FINALLY
      taken the whole data security thing somewhat
      seriously.

      All corporate imaged laptops that leave company
      buildings are getting whole disk encryption to
      help protect the data within.

      Now if they can simply train their employees
      to quit leaving the damn things in their cars
      . . . .

      I believe the vendor used is Checkpoint.

    10. Re:Easy by uncamarty · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Whether you're filling the rolls by hand or by machine, whoever fills the rolls should get up to speed quickly.

      There - Fixed it for ya...

      --
      I am not a manual I am a human being! - The distress call of the TechSupport Badger
    11. Re:Easy by syousef · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Next one, I'll make an example of. That's random.

      Next one I'll consider how bad the violation is, and their overall performance, whether or not a warning would be sufficient. That's not random.

      Just because you're not playing inie meanie miney moe, doesn't mean your actions are well thought out and non-random.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    12. Re:Easy by mdfst13 · · Score: 1

      Having a policy and making employees aware of the policy are important, but the most important piece is testing. You hire an outside firm who comes in and looks for ways to compromise systems or data. If they find anything, you fix the hole (possibly by firing an employee but more likely by improving the system).

      Little things, like monitoring who dumps database results to files or runs sudo commands, can make a big difference here. Creating good data manipulation tools so that users do not have to compromise security or privacy to get the data that they need is also helpful. Creating sandboxes for private data (you can dump the data to a file, but only on special machines for that purpose).

    13. Re:Easy by The_Mr_Flibble · · Score: 2, Funny

      I work for a government department and there are large quantities of information regarding proper procedures for data handling unfortunately no ones allowed to read them as they are deemed sensitive data.

    14. Re:Easy by banished · · Score: 1

      Do you know what it costs to hire an employee, and get them up to speed doing their job well?

      Yes. Less than what it costs for a data security breach.

    15. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firing employees randomly when they violate a policy to set an example isn't exactly smart.

      Doesn't everyone here agree that following workplace policies are part of a person's job, and that failing to follow policy is also failing to do one's job? The connection between doing what your company tells you to do and doing your job is entirely clear to everyone, right? We also all agree that a data breach can be a serious problem and that causing serious problems is, well, a fairly serious thing and may have serious consequences, right?

      You most certainly can fire someone for violating company policy. Nobody who has ever held a job doubts that. The problem here is the word "random" (used in the Parent post but not the GP post). You don't fire people at _random_, you fire the one who was already a poor employee or who made a particularly serious error (e.g. releasing private data for 26.5 million veterans).

      Then "after the first time you fire someone for violating that policy" folks will take the policy more seriously, thereby preventing further similar mistakes, which is a _good thing_. When you're thinking about the livelyhood of the family of the person being fired, don't forget about the cost to the families of the people whose data was exposed either...

    16. Re:Easy by Sobrique · · Score: 1

      Just because policy is violated, doesn't mean there's necessarily any negative consequences. Copying confidential stuff to my laptop doesn't cause any problems until my laptop is lost/stolen.

    17. Re:Easy by leonem · · Score: 1

      I've worked on reviews of these policies and employee adherence to them, and you're quite right they're of little use if people don't know.

      Truth is though, simply having these policies is often enough to reduce the level of culpability a corporation can be considered to have in the event of a breach. Getting people to sign stuff would also help, as you say, but the big prize here is not to defend against suits brought by your employees, but to prevent some government body coming down hard on you.

    18. Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In conjunction with training and awareness campaigns, adding an end point security data leakage solution to trap and monitor local PCs to control data exportation is an effective tool. The benefit is you can have authorized encrypted USB devices, restricted exportation of content, etc for those who actually need it, while prevent other individuals from access to the data to start with. The nightmare location for critical data is the 'file servers' / public network shares, where this data can be prevalent and unstructured (aka, hard to identify).

    19. Re:Easy by deets101 · · Score: 1

      Firing doesn't work. It only pisses off the employees that are left and devides workers and management. What is needed is a program to award good behavior. This gives them a reason to try harder.

      --

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    20. Re:Easy by dwye · · Score: 1

      Try having well written, very clear policies that that kind of action is forbiden. Of course, a piece of paper means crap to most employees, but the first time you fire someone for violating that policy, the grapevine and water cooler will provide more training than a dozen hour long meetings could convey..

      Try firing your CEO or Chairman of the Board, when THAT person screws up, though.

      At a previous company, we had clear rules for handling email attachments to avoid virus problems (no penalty except company-wide ridicule, though), and the only person who regularly got and spread viruses was the company president, after he went on calls to major customers. He wasn't stupid, or trying to test us, or deliberately breaking the rules; he was just a bit more careless than other people about connecting to other networks and reconnecting to ours. I imagine that he would have the same problem with personal data, but the demo version of the database had none (well, except for Herman Munster, and a few other fake characters).

    21. Re:Easy by magus_melchior · · Score: 1

      "... a soul-less piece of shit that cares not a jot about destroying a family's livelihood..."

      Here in America, we have this odd predilection of calling this guy "successful". Sad, but true.

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
    22. Re:Easy by hsqueak · · Score: 1

      Which would be the aforementioned data breach.

    23. Re:Easy by rebelcan · · Score: 1

      It was determined by dice roll, then written down on paper. Guaranteed to be random.

      --
      God is dead -- Nietzsche
      Nietzsche is dead -- God
      Zombie Nietzsche lives! -- Zombie Nietzsche
    24. Re:Easy by armareum · · Score: 1

      I've seen your sig on a bathroom stall wall before. Granted, it was the the top uni in Scotland. Damned pretentious bastards.

      --
      Is this a rhetorical question?
  3. Policies by larien · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Partly, you need policies to discourage end users copying data anywhere it's not needed. And I really, really mean discourage, up to and including possible sacking.

    At a technical level, every laptop/portable data storage device should have its hard drive encrypted. Disable USB ports if you can get away with it, or at least put software on which forces encryption of files sent to USB keys. That will cover most of your issues.

    Users will legitimately require access to sensitive data as part of their job; the IT department should have the power to ensure they don't do it in a way that exposes the company to the embarassment of losing a laptop with SSNs in the subway...

    1. Re:Policies by aztracker1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personally, I can't see *ANY* instance where a full set of SSNs for more than a handful of people should *EVER* be needed on a laptop... I mean, if you are entering data, sure... but WTF should anyone be carrying around some of the information that gets leaked.

      I think *IF* such information is needed for lookups, then a 1-way hash is a necessity. If you aren't responsible for dispatching to customer locations on a weekend, then you shouldn't need street addresses. I can see needing some information for customers, but SSNs, or CC data should *NEVER* be on anything outside of the office, or a backup storage facility.

      It's that simple. No SSNs leave the office... No CC information leaves the office... no street addresses leave the office, unless absolutely necessary.

      I've seen smaller companies that have the entire database in the "on call" laptop, that gets copied from the server friday, and to the server monday.. I shudder every time I think about it...

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    2. Re:Policies by bucky0 · · Score: 1

      Not to pick nits, but a 1-way hash of SSNs don't do you much good. Though it's a hash, you get limited to the keyspace of the SSN which is trivially reversible. (instead of 2^80 possibilities, you get 10^9)

      --

      -Bucky
    3. Re:Policies by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

      Oh, and for the Mac people out there -- encryption means full disk encryption. Not FileVault.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    4. Re:Policies by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Simple.

      All sensitive data is constrained to certain machines.

      These machines (desktops only!!) are physically locked down in the office.

      No remote access.
      No physical access to the ports/case.

      You can go further and prevent people from taking cellphones, cameras, pens, etc.

      In fact, let's just lock them in the box with the data.

    5. Re:Policies by cool_arrow · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's a good idea to limit who gets your ssn. I'm having surgery done on my knee in a couple of days which has entailed seeing 4 docs at 4 diff offices (MRI etc). They all want your SSN when filling out their paperwork - I simply didn't put mine down on any of them. Two of them brought it to my attention and my response was "I don't give it out". Didn't have a problem. I could see if I wanted credit or was borrowing money from a bank. Otherwise don't be too eager to give it out.

    6. Re:Policies by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      Which brings up a question I've had for a while but not had the energy to investigate. All of the notebooks we use where I work are encrypted with full disk encryption. Are there any good applications for doing the same on my personal macbook?

      Currently I use truecrypt to create volumes to store all my personal information, but I would love full disk encryption.

    7. Re:Policies by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

      If someone steals your notebook, they can remove the drive and use a $15 adapter to access all of the unencrypted information on your disk. Or they could use ERD Commander or BartPE to reset your administrator password and access the machine directly. Depending on how clueful the attacker is and how you manage your passwords, your Truecrypt volumes may or may not be secure.

      With full-disk encryption, you're not going to be able to even tell that the volume exists. The most affordable FDE for an individual Windows user is probably Vista Ultimate.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    8. Re:Policies by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      I totally understand all that. I was actually asking for tools/programs that would allow me to have full disk encryption on my mac. We already have full disk encryption on my windows machine via truecrypt (it does full disk encryption on windows) and on my linux box via lvm encryption (thanks ubuntu for making that so easy!).

      What I need is one for mac (as you pointed out, filevault is not full disk encryption.)

      BTW full disk encryption via truecrypt is very awesome imho. It works fast and painlessly and allows you to have a hidden install of windows (for plausible deniability). It is also free which makes it the most affordable solution for a single user (who probably has xp and does not want to pay for a vista upgrade).

    9. Re:Policies by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

      The options are limited right now. Hopefully Apple will clue up. I believe PGP and Checkpoint/Pointsec offer solutions, but I believe they only work with their enterprise solutions.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  4. Our hospital records are strongly protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    we use a robots.txt file and a strongly worded "keep out - private data" header on all important records

    1. Re:Our hospital records are strongly protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Our hospital uses stronger means: besides robots.txt our headers say "Keep out - only private data of our celebrity customers (including Ms Portman)".

      We are actually still doing financially fine, though our legal fees are unusually large.

    2. Re:Our hospital records are strongly protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we use a robots.txt file and a strongly worded "keep out - private data" header on all important records

      Hmm... maybe that's what we're doing wrong. We have a "keep out - private data" in our robots.txt file and a strongly worded:

      User-agent: human
      Disallow: /

      header on all important records.

      Go figure...

  5. Unless of course, you're.. by Channard · · Score: 5, Informative

    .. The UK Government. 600 lost laptops over the last ten years! Including two from the MOD with very sensitive data on them. And that's just electronic data. Despite the public being told how important shredding documents is, some commercial enterprises seem to be just chucking sensitive data out in the bin, unshredded.

    1. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by pak9rabid · · Score: 2, Funny

      Incompetence aside, of course ;)

    2. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by MrZaius · · Score: 2, Informative

      This actually raises a valid point - Like every other reasonably competent government out there, the poster should do full disk encryption on every portable device and ban those incapable of it from the network (along with all employee owned devices). The poster should just do it a fair bit more quickly.

      Truecrypt's free. Lenovo's disk encryption is free and allows biometric use if you're using their laptops. The generic mainstream commercial options are less than a hundred dollars a head in many cases.

      There is absolutely no excuse not to use full disk encryption on modern laptops. Training matters, but noone should trust the user outside of company walls.

    3. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by VdG · · Score: 1

      It seems to be difficult to get people to exercise proper control of sensitive data. I'm sure that all - or most, anyway - of the government departments and businesses have clear policies on the subject which their staff are required to read. But people see a lot of memos and policy docs and clearly a lot of them aren't taken terribly seriously. Better employee education seems needed. Not just a heavy hand when people are caught, but to make it clear what the consequences to the employee, employer and data subject(s) could be. My employer has little video clips describing various company policies, and viewing them is tracked so that they know who has viewed them and who hasn't. That seems quite a good approach.

      Equally it's quite difficult to prevent people downloading data to laptops. Many people can make a good case for it being necessary or at least useful for their job, so simply banning it isn't going to be a popular choice - and how do you enforce that, anyway? (Let's not forget that half the point of all this IT is to help people do their jobs.)

      Full disk encryption seems to be a good starting point. At least that way you don't have to worry so much when - inevitably - someone loses a laptop.

      Some sort of central repository might be worthwhile: a place on the network for people to keep files, but which is easily accessible remotely so that they'll actually make use of it. That has the added advantage that it's backed up. It's also potentially valuable to overcome concerns about travelling to and from the USA, (and probably other countries).

      That's easier said than done, though. At work I've got a network drive which is intended for keeping stuff on but it was conceived of before laptops became prevelant: more to help people if they happened to be at a different workstation. Things have moved on a lot and these days the users's allowances aren't enough to cope with the amount of data which one can generate. And remote access when working away from the office isn't adequate, so people are likely to download stuff to their laptops so that they can work at home or on the road when the network is unavailable or performing badly.

    4. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by nahdude812 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You can never pay someone enough that they can't be paid some more to "lose" a laptop with data on it.

      We work hard to mitigate corporate espionage (which is surprisingly common), but no matter how much they're paid, someone can get greedy and take a $30k bonus in cash to give up some data.

    5. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      We chuck our old gear in the bin, but only after the harddrive platters have been exposed using a 4 pound sledge hammer.

      It's fun playing Office Space when it's time to get rid of old gear.

      Queue Dynamite Hack "Cause the boy's in the hood"

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    6. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by rebelcan · · Score: 1

      And using proper software to blank out the disks, and then donating the hardware to your local charity/school/whatever is too hard?

      Don't want to sound troll-ish or anything, but to me that just seems like a waste. My dad runs the computer club at the high school he works at, and he's always getting computers ( everything from old 486 desktops to somewhat new servers ) from businesses and local universities, which he cleans up, puts Windows 98 on and gives them to local elementary schools for their computer labs. Just because you have no use for the equipment doesn't mean other people can't find a good use for it.

      If the equipment has sensitive data on it, then I'm fairly sure that it's possible to erase the data to a degree that makes it cost-prohibitive for anyone not working at a government lab with specialized equipment to recover it.

      --
      God is dead -- Nietzsche
      Nietzsche is dead -- God
      Zombie Nietzsche lives! -- Zombie Nietzsche
    7. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by armareum · · Score: 1

      People need to start considering personal/sensitive data in the same way as cash - it needs to be protected from theft and loss in effective ways. Only that sort of culture change will lead people to look after it properly - and not just send it in an internal envelope through the internal post.

      --
      Is this a rhetorical question?
    8. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by mcpheat · · Score: 1

      There is absolutely no excuse not to use full disk encryption on modern laptops.

      My 3 year old unencrypted laptop has faster disk access than a brand new full disk encrypted one Both were at a similar price point when they were bought. That seems a good reason not to use full disk encryption.

    9. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does to me as well, but I don't make the company policy, I just follow it.

    10. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can never pay someone enough that they can't be paid some more to "lose" a laptop with data on it.

      But maybe you can scare the shit out of them such that they won't ;-)

      I work for a major defense contractor. We periodically have in-depth security seminars hosted by the security controller, who is an ex-forces guy with no sense of humor whatsoever.

      Usually it's mundane reminders about moving equipment outside tempest shielded areas, lifespan of hard copies of protectively-marked documents, that kind of thing.

      Just occasionally, it's a bit meatier and you get to see a mugshot of the latest Russian cultural attache along with the list of places he likes to take his frequent holidays. Amazingly his holiday destinations seem to coincide with areas of military activity, who'da thunk it?! He was described as urbane, jovial, a good listener and very generous indeed when it comes to buying the drinks.

      I digress... Anyway, in one briefing we got the case history of one of our colleagues who'd encountered "laptop difficulties". No names were mentioned, but they didn't need to be as about thirty seconds into the speil, it was obvious that he was talking about old NAME REDACTED who'd disappeared without warning some time ago.

      The guy had loaded some classified data onto his laptop (naughty! and impossible now with our new network setup) to do some work at home. His house got burgled over the weekend so, no more laptop.

      To his credit, he fessed up first thing Monday morning but this didn't deflect a lengthy investigation by the special cops and the intelligence service to determine if he was just unlucky and stupid or in the pay of a foreign power. Nine months of having every aspect of your life picked apart, your financial affairs, friends and family being questioned, having to account for every minute of every foreign holiday.

      In the end he was cleared, but out of a job, out of a marriage and practically unemployable in his former field of work, with his security clearance permamnently revoked.

      Fanciful scare story? Maybe, but the guys who knew the victim better than I says it fits quite well with what they were seeing...

      [ac for obvious reasons]

    11. Re:Unless of course, you're.. by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      In case you come back: the amazing thing is that you can reveal secrets without ever giving up anything physical which would be missed or necessarily retraceable to an individual. A thumb drive, a CD, a hard copy.

      Also it sounds like you're working for or in collusion with the government. In the case of corporate espionage, their powers of inconveniencing the offending party are substantially lower. Their repercussions are mostly limited to civil court especially if the rogue employee has plausible deniability.

      They also have to be careful that they aren't perceived as persecuting someone, because they have to consider employee morale. Morale is one of their best defenses against espionage; employees sufficiently happy with the company would not want to jeopardize their job or harm the company unless it's for substantial reward (here you're raising the bar for your opponents). Damage morale to a certain point, and employees may start to use company secrets as bargaining chips to land a job with a competitor.

      Especially in the private sector, any intelligent employee who is determined to sacrifice your company secrets is fully capable of doing so for any secrets they have access to in a way that fails to arouse suspicion; particularly if they limit the frequency of the exposure.

  6. I just wish by Kamokazi · · Score: 1

    I just wish the people where I work were actually smart enough to export customer data and manipulate it so I wouldn't have to for them.

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    1. Re:I just wish by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I just wish the people where I work were actually smart enough to export customer data and manipulate it so I wouldn't have to for them.

      I had this issue before. If I gave or built them better data manipulation tools, I'd be out of a job. Ultimately I left because I'd rather automate it because it grew tedious after a while. Some were also reluctant to automate such for various reasons anyhow. I figured I wasn't a good fit: they wanted a half-programmer-half-clerk.
           

    2. Re:I just wish by Zerth · · Score: 2, Funny

      The trick is to make the tool and not tell them about it.

      Even better, develop a form that you make everyone fill out when requesting data which is really just the arguments for your script. I had a coworker who was constantly praised on his responsiveness to requests because his mail->sql->excel->mail script always responded in (int(rand()*10)+5) minutes.

      Well, until he forgot to turn it off when he had the flu and somebody noticed "he" kept working. He literally replaced himself with a (not so) small shell script.

  7. in plain sight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I encode all my sensitive data as recipes, and keep them in the Central City's First Branch Library in plain view...

  8. Once found, here's what you do by bugnuts · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Once found, how do you deal with it? Do you force encryption, delete it or prevent extracts?

    First off you need to have a policy on who is allowed to extract it, and how they should handle the data (be it encryption, keeping the data on-site, etc).

    But here's the trick: If you find data kept in violation of the policy, you send EVERYONE to training. I'm talking mandatory training where they lose computer access (and thus, don't get paid) until they do the training. All new hires have to do it, too. Make it really boring, and administered after normal work hours.

    After the first time everyone is sent to training for some poor schmuck being careless, I guarantee nobody will ever violate policy again.

    1. Re:Once found, here's what you do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Causing several unproductive hours for the majority of the work staff doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

    2. Re:Once found, here's what you do by Dzonatas · · Score: 1

      What about in situation like Wikipedia where most people are volunteers. How would you send WP admins to training and etc?

      How about "hidden" tracking cookies, which also shows how admins match sensitive data:
      http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/07/28/net-views-sock-puppet-tactics-wikipedia

    3. Re:Once found, here's what you do by bugnuts · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Causing several unproductive hours for the majority of the work staff doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

      Actually, I was being mostly facetious....

      Except that it is how several companies do it, due to government contracts, insurance, and (gasp) congressional decree.

      I honestly had to take several training courses (yearly) because someone screwed up. And when that happens, the peer pressure is really increased to not screw up.

      One time, a person randomly tripped in the hallway, and the potential workman's comp issue was terrifying. I joked that we would have to go to training to learn how to walk. And guess what... "paying attention while walking" was added to an existing mandatory training course!

      Ah, government work.

    4. Re:Once found, here's what you do by settrans · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a great plan if you want morale to plummet! I'm not kidding, this was tried at a former workplace and there was turnover in the aftermath.

      --
      "When I wake up in the morning I piss cryptographic excellence." - Bruce Schneier
    5. Re:Once found, here's what you do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it saves losing sensitive data that could destroy the entire company, and possibly land you in jail or a civil suit then I'd say it sounds like a very good idea.

      If you're talking about losing the boss's dirty picture collection, probably not a good idea... ...unless your boss is the President, or the Pope.

      Or how about some banking records that contain complete sets of name, credit card number, security code, and ATM PIN? I'd say spending a few hours on employee 'training' is worth not losing a pile of data like that...

    6. Re:Once found, here's what you do by syousef · · Score: 1

      I'm talking mandatory training where they lose computer access (and thus, don't get paid) until they do the training. ...and...
      After the first time everyone is sent to training for some poor schmuck being careless, I guarantee nobody will ever violate policy again

      Boy am I glad you're not my boss. You may also wish to check what the laws are like where you are. What you're proposing is bound to be illegal in at least some (sane) places.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    7. Re:Once found, here's what you do by drinkypoo · · Score: 0, Troll

      The real reason you train everyone is so that there are no excuses. Everyone knows. However, you legally can't make it after work hours in many if not most states...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Once found, here's what you do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except this could backfire if one's peers instead all try to make sure that management never finds out about such policy violations by collectively covering it up.

    9. Re:Once found, here's what you do by houghi · · Score: 1

      Please can I go? After hours are illegal where I live and will either result in the company paying me twice or me getting days off. If I can do that 4 days, I can stay home on friday, so yes please.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    10. Re:Once found, here's what you do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you find one of those mono tone people to conduct the meeting that made everyone want to die? that would make them fear seminars. Oh like those sexual harassment ones with the woman with the abnormal large chest to be talking about that subject.

    11. Re:Once found, here's what you do by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      But here's the trick: If you find data kept in violation of the policy, you send EVERYONE to training. I'm talking mandatory training where they lose computer access (and thus, don't get paid) until they do the training. All new hires have to do it, too. Make it really boring, and administered after normal work hours.

      After the first time everyone is sent to training for some poor schmuck being careless, I guarantee nobody will ever violate policy again.

      You certainly wouldn't have to worry about me violating your policies, nor I imagine any of the other competent staff who can easily find work elsewhere. I've seen it happen more than once - stupid draconian policies arrive in one door, competent staff walk out the other door.

      Thankfully, this is is all theoretical to me because I would never work somewhere where what you propose is even legal.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
  9. Encryption & data loss protection by twolfe · · Score: 2, Informative

    We use forced whole disk encryption on all laptops. Additionally, you can look at data loss solutions like you've suggested but I'd recommend something a bit more holistic, like Cisco's Security Agent, which provides a centrally managed firewall, IPS, anti-virus and data loss protection function all from a single installed agent.

    1. Re:Encryption & data loss protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firewalls, IPS, virus scanners and data loss protection functions are all reactionary technologies that only protect you against known signatures after an event that shouldn't happen in the first place does.

      IE great for grandma's PC, useless in any environment where any real level of security is required.

    2. Re:Encryption & data loss protection by twolfe · · Score: 1

      Actually, CSA and many other newer IPS use a behavioural strategy to block malicious intent, instead of or in addition to, signature based strategies. To date, at least according to Cisco, CSA has blocked all known malware without use of signatures... While of course vendor info should be taken with a grain of salt, the approach has some merit in my opinion.

  10. 12345 by lazycam · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The strength of your encryption means nothing in the face of a user who insists on using their birthday as a password or keep a post-it on their computer monitor. Unless you are able to force individuals to use strong or randomly generated passwords you are at a loss. In the end, human behavior will circumvent our best security.

    --
    my mom posts on slashdot.
    1. Re:12345 by bugnuts · · Score: 1

      "What a coincidence... that's the same password on my luggage!"

      Forcing users to use strong or randomly-generated passwords tends to lead to keeping it on a post-it note on the monitor!

      But post-it notes with a difficult password are not inherently bad. Just store the note in a safe on-site where the data are stored. If someone has access to the safe, they also have access to the disk drives.

      For laptops going off-site, encrypt it with the user's public key. Make that encryption part of the extract (which would also guarantee that the data couldn't be carried off by someone masquerading). Yes, each user has to remember a single strong password that protects his private key. But that should be part of the responsibility of having the data. If people are so unwilling to have a strong password to protect the data, they probably shouldn't have access to it anyway.

    2. Re:12345 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The strength of your encryption means nothing in the face of a user who insists on using their birthday as a password...

      Ahh, but I was born on Febtober the eleventy-second. No one ever tries that.

    3. Re:12345 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have 16 personal passwords at work, and 10 shared passwords.
      All change, some daily, some weekly, some monthly. Oh, and did I mention they retain our passwords for 3 years to prevent re-use, and run them against dictionaries so anything not random rejects.

      Keeping track of these things is a huge pain, you never know what password you used, and most of the systems have a 3 tries and you're locked policy.
      They even have the password databases tied together so if you use one password on one system, it can't be used on a different one.

      The end result is every one of the 500+ employees with desks covered in post-its with passwords written on them.

      We asked if we could just use one password on all systems, they said it was possible for about 90% of them, but that it would mean one lost password would compromise the whole system.
      I mentioned it would be more secure than everyone writing down the passwords on their desks.
      They said to lock our drawers with the pw's in them at night.
      I said we don't have any keys.
      They didn't say anything else.

      The next day we got to work and all our passwords were gone, taken from the desks. Management had write-ups for each of us for failing to adhere to our security policy.

      So now most of us use a password utility that can be put on a usb stick, and we take them home so they don't get taken. Some people still write them down on paper, but also take them home.

      The moral being, due to an over-aggresive security policy, we now have passwords to all our sensitive systems floating around on paper, usb sticks, etc. some people have even taken to just emailing their own password list to themselves, and just remembering the email password.

      I work at a large banking/investement support firm. Scary, isn't it?

    4. Re:12345 by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When it comes to employees, especially non-technical ones, the best bet is to generate a password for them. Have the password printed on a laminated card along with 15 other random passwords. Give this to employee and tell them to (very good) keep it in their wallet or (less good) even post it on a monitor.

      Only they know which of 15 passwords it is. If they lose their wallet tell them to call you right after they call the DMV and their CC company.

      Check the logs for bad password attempts and then call the user to see if they actually did that. If they didn't, then someone else is trying with their passwords.

      Or, move into the 21st century and start using SmartCard logins. They need a card and a PIN in most cases, so just losing the card is no biggie.

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    5. Re:12345 by smellotron · · Score: 1

      The strength of your encryption means nothing in the face of a user who insists on ... keep[ing] a post-it on their computer monitor.

      What's so bad about that? There is a certain level of privacy expected in the workplace. If the company has an issue with a snooping ronin employee, audit trails should reveal it pretty quickly, and result in a swift termination. It is a fact of life that not everyone will remember every password they are bombarded with, so it's stupid to fight it. Just find the least damaging alternative... like having them write their password on a $50 bill (since people are pretty good at keeping money safe, when compared to post-it-notes). It turns "something you know" into "something you have".

    6. Re:12345 by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      What about employees marking which password is theirs? Not to mention that someone only has to try 15 passwords, seems like a bad idea. Even if the system locks them out after 5 bad passwords, that's a one in three chance that someone can guess their way into the system.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    7. Re:12345 by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 1

      If you let them post it on the monitor, no reason you can't make a list of 50 passwords. As for marking, add it to the network use policy that it's grounds for termination and then do a random walkaround.

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    8. Re:12345 by Sobrique · · Score: 1
      My situation is similar.

      I work for an outsource, based as a financial institute. We have our 'work email' password. Our 'work remote access password'.

      We have our standard login account password (which thankfully, is synced to the laptop encryption thingy). I also have two admin accounts for 'production', 3 for 'preproduction', and one for 'test'. There's also a few 'key' router/switch login/management accounts.

      And we have a helpdesk system, and a separate change management system.

      And because we're doing remote management, we're remote logging into servers.

      All these passwords enforce a subtley different mix of 'strong' rules. They expire monthly, and give two weeks notice. Some of these administrative domains could be synchronized a bit better, but most could not for security reasons (you cannot access pre-prod from production, for example).

      Guess what tends to happen with passwords? That's right. People use the same one, on every system. Some even scribble it down somewhere, because of the two weekly 'your password expires in 14 days' notification.

      Now, once upon a time I used to use 'strong' passwords. Y'know, random-ish 8+ character strings of letter/numbers/symbols. Now I don't, because I cannot remotely keep track of a new one of those, on that many different accounts, every two weeks.

    9. Re:12345 by VdG · · Score: 1

      With my previous employer, we used to use Password Safe to store various passwords. One on a network drive for the team, (for admin passords and the like) and one for each individual. That seemed to work OK, as it meant that there was only one password to remember. The shared one also meant that we could enforce regular changes to the root password(s) without too much trouble.

      Obviously the consequences of someone getting that one password could be quite serious, so you still need to enforce good password practices. Making use of biometrics might be a good idea.

      These days, I tend to use mnemonics, which I hope aren't too obvious because they're not stored quite so securely, (on my 'phone). There are several ways of coming up with fairly strong passwords which are reasonably easy to remember, and amenable to the use of simple reminders.

    10. Re:12345 by houghi · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, the defence of every IT department on security is to add more complex passwords.

      The result is that at this moment I have for my work 7 different personal logins on about 20 different systems. So with those 20 places (and 7 logins that I can't change) do you think that having a random password, that I must change at different times, on each of these 20 systems is safer?

      Well, I know it is not. I will start either writing them down, or I will start using less secure systems, or I will call you each day to say that I have forgotten my password and that you must reset it.

      Security is a social problem, don't solve it with a technical solution.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    11. Re:12345 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My school uses a random key gen for a password for our online grade book. It makes people never check their grades because it is to hard to find their password. So don't do a key gen people will use stickies. Use an acronym that they can remember not fumigf41. No joke that crap is annoying.

    12. Re:12345 by magus_melchior · · Score: 1

      Let me guess: Your company's PHB management (and yes, taking away all Post-its, issuing a "naughty, naughty" warning, and offering no viable alternative is classic PHB behavior) decided to implement ISO 27001 in the strictest way possible, so they could boast to investors and customers that they care about information security. And the CEO is somehow the Information System Manager, even though he has the technical experience equivalent of a squid.

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
  11. Send letters by chinakow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From what I can see, most companies wait until the sensitive data is lost or stolen then they send every customer a letter telling them it is gone and offering to pay someone to keep an eye on their credit. Other than that, I think the policy must be, "ignorance is bliss." That is just my two cents.

  12. Enforce Strict Naming Conventions by jaguth · · Score: 5, Funny

    I name all of my sensitive files, databases, tables, and fields with names that nobody would want to touch, such as "Smashing Pumpkins Discography DB", "tblPeeWeeHerman", "Oprah.txt", ect.

    And for storage, I burn them all to DVD and put them inside empty "Aerosmith" jewel cases. Keeps them nice and safe from prying eyes.

    1. Re:Enforce Strict Naming Conventions by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      You don't by chance work for a San Francisco municipality, do you?

    2. Re:Enforce Strict Naming Conventions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I code-named one project PMS. Urinary Tract Infection does wonders too.

    3. Re:Enforce Strict Naming Conventions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I name all of my sensitive files, databases, tables, and fields with names that nobody would want to touch, such as "Smashing Pumpkins Discography DB", "tblPeeWeeHerman", "Oprah.txt", ect.

      And for storage, I burn them all to DVD and put them inside empty "Aerosmith" jewel cases. Keeps them nice and safe from prying eyes.

      You might want to put them in a jewel case labeled "Michael Bolton's Christmas Bonanza". I'd definitely take you're Aerosmith CD.

    4. Re:Enforce Strict Naming Conventions by jimbob666 · · Score: 1

      Smashing Pumpkins is my favourite band!! So I would be looking in that DB file. But not if it is hidden in an Aerosmith jewel case. ;-)

  13. We lock it via user-restricted accounts by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We use specific user names and strong passwords (not user selected) behind a strong firewall and web encryption.

    But the reality is that anyone could stick the query results to file on a flash drive ...

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:We lock it via user-restricted accounts by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Sticky note on my monitor with pre-generated passwords... check!

      Generally I find that a 3/4 rule for a 10+ character password works... Upper, Lower, Number, Non-AlphaNumeric. Suggest that users do short phrases like... "c is for cookie" even "c 1s 4 c00k13" works... this is generally pretty strong, far easier to remember, and less likely to be written down/stolen.

      Point out the concept of the above to people, and they are far more likely to use a secure password, that they can live with... Using a common username-password system via LDAP/AD or another system also helps. Having to keep 8 passwords for various company systems with different rules, or inability to change your passwords only leads to having passwords printed out in clear text.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    2. Re:We lock it via user-restricted accounts by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Actually, we keep a password book that looks like all the other lab notebooks on the shelf, except it has passwords like AMI$6*mani - but you still need to know the account name and since it's linux it's case-sensitive.

      Then the database fetch page uses an internal fetch password that we don't tell the users which meets the same restrictions.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    3. Re:We lock it via user-restricted accounts by BBandCMKRNL · · Score: 1

      Generally I find that a 3/4 rule for a 10+ character password works... Upper, Lower, Number, Non-AlphaNumeric. Suggest that users do short phrases like... "c is for cookie" even "c 1s 4 c00k13" works... this is generally pretty strong, far easier to remember, and less likely to be written down/stolen.

      Point out the concept of the above to people, and they are far more likely to use a secure password, that they can live with... Using a common username-password system via LDAP/AD or another system also helps. Having to keep 8 passwords for various company systems with different rules, or inability to change your passwords only leads to having passwords printed out in clear text.

      That's fine unless you work in a single-sign-on environment that includes a mainframe that can only take 8 character passwords at the max :-( And since many financial institutions meet that criteria...

      Many years ago when I worked at DEC in the pre-single-sign-on days, I had admin rights on many servers, the security policy required passwords to be a minimum of 14 characters, and they couldn't be the same for multiple servers, so you can imagine that my passwords were all the same except for the last word in the multi-phrase password, or employed something like that to keep them rememberable.

      --
      Without the 2nd Amendment, the others are just suggestions.
    4. Re:We lock it via user-restricted accounts by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      you can use something similar, mixed anagrams...

      Lbl2eHC. == Little boys love to eat Hershey's Chocolate.

      The idea still has merit... Also, giving people a USB key with a password keeper program in java or .Net that accesses a file on that drive that is encrypted against a single *VERY STRONG* password to keep their other passwords. Even better, make it so that only the password part is encrypted, so if you put in the wrong master password, you simply get wrong passwords back.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  14. Why do they need access? by bockelboy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ask yourself why the employees need the SSN access in the first place!

    Tell your DBA to create a view which replaces the SSN with some other random number for every possible person with DB access. That way, folks doing data mining or data quality will be happy.

    If your devs need SSN access to develop your application, ask them why the hell they need to work on the production DB!

    There's eventually going to be folks who need access to the real data. Hire a large football player, dress him in a suit, and have a "come to jesus" moment with any employee to make sure they understand how serious this is.

    1. Re:Why do they need access? by aztracker1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      totally agreed.. I'd say have a special lookup table for SSNs, and have a 1-way hashed version in the main table/views... no select queries for the SSN, only an sproc where you enter the key, and get the value, for use in a program where you need to see it... for those that need to "lookup" a record based on SSN, then you can hash it, and search based on the hash. Unless you need it for filling out medical, tax, or other government records, there is *NO* need for any person to have access to a raw table with SSNs, let alone have it on a portable device. I'd say the same for CC information, and Street Addresses... 99.9% of the time, there's no need to even be able to view said info.. let alone for it to be anything but a lookup/hash value.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    2. Re:Why do they need access? by wizzat · · Score: 1

      In most cases, you can use a view of a hidden table and security definer functions (for postgres) to bypass this issue entirely.

      Consider (mocked up):

      psql=>create table users_real (user_no integer, name text, password text, sensitive_information text);
      CREATE TABLE
      psql=>create view users as select user_no, name from users_real;
      CREATE VIEW
      psql=>-- revoke all on users_real to all;
      psql=>-- grant all on users to all;
      psql=>select check_password('user', 'password'); -- security definer function 'suid' looks at users: proposed user, proposed_password
      psql=>select set_password('user', 'password'); -- security definer function 'suid' looks at users: proposed user, proposed_password

      Josh Burkus gave an excellent talk at OSCON about protecting sensitive data in a database.

    3. Re:Why do they need access? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hire a large football player, dress him in a suit, and have a "come to jesus" moment with any employee to make sure they understand how serious this is.

      Terry Tate, office linebacker?

      "You kill the joe, you make some mo'"

    4. Re:Why do they need access? by plover · · Score: 2, Informative

      Beware. Hashing SSNs is dirt-easy to crack with a dictionary attack. There are only 10^9 possible SSNs. Let's say you hashed them all with SHA-1, which I have personally benchmarked on my crappy 4-year-old desktop machine at 50,000 hashes per second. That means I could test every possible hash of an SSN in 20,000 seconds, or about 5-1/2 hours.

      And I have, to prove the point to one of our teams that was proposing this exact same system.

      It is "sort-of" possible to do it securely, but your protocols and access to such a system have to be guarded as closely as if you were dealing with the secret encryption key to the real SSN database. You need logged and restricted access to the queries, and you need an intrusion detection system watching for anomalous activity, such as a large number of sequential requests for hashing coming from IP address 10.1.2.3.

      No matter what, it's not easy and it's barely secure, even though it sounds great to management: "Hey, boss, I protected all our SSNs using SHA-1 which has 160 bit hashes which Bruce Schneier says are almost unbreakable!"

      A much better approach is to ask yourself why you are storing customer SSNs in the first place? Customer SSNs should be treated as transitory data, used for the initial credit application (or whatever) and then discarded. Something else should be used as the long-term "customer number."

      --
      John
    5. Re:Why do they need access? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The existence of 1-way functions is purely a conjecture at this point. Besides, social security numbers have a well defined format. It would be trivial to compute all 10^9 possible SSNs using whatever hash that is used.

      What is needed is a sane privacy policy with stiff penalties, not harebrained schemes.

    6. Re:Why do they need access? by mdfst13 · · Score: 1

      Customer SSNs should be treated as transitory data, used for the initial credit application (or whatever) and then discarded. Something else should be used as the long-term "customer number."

      The problem is that it needs to be something else that won't change and that the customer can remember. I.e. it can't be an ID that you make, because customers will forget those. It can't be something like a phone number or an address, because those can change. Customer name is too prone to duplicates.

    7. Re:Why do they need access? by penguin_man101 · · Score: 1

      I'm no expert, but what about a hash of a hash? You could hash to get some long string that would be easily crackable in itself, but if this long string was again hashed, would it not become magnitudes more difficult to break?

    8. Re:Why do they need access? by dlgeek · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter, you just double the time (~11 hours by GP's number) which is still trivial
      Hash(Hash(0000000000))
      Hash(Hash(0000000001))
      Hash(Hash(0000000002))
      ...

      I'd be very surprised if no one has made databases of Hash() available online with common hash functions.

    9. Re:Why do they need access? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modded funny but think about the replacement of the data for a second.

      I do that in a system at work and the marketing department is happy with it.

      In some cases it works great.

    10. Re:Why do they need access? by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Well... the problem is that any way of encoding them would be reversable... even if you used a salt, or added their dob to the hash, it could be reversed... I mean md5(salt + md5(dob + md5(ssn))) would probably take a bit longer to figure out, also that still makes it take a much longer time for say 100k+ records... Policies are also important, as I stated.. but at the very least hashing provides *SOME* protection for data that needs to be ported about...

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    11. Re:Why do they need access? by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      The use of a hash is mainly for a deterrent.. if you hash a salt + dob + ssn, then it becomes far more inefficient to brute force an entire table... I would say privacy policy + stiff penalties + hashing.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  15. Automate it and rent it! by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

    So many people don't see the payoff of spending 2-3 hours learning the gist of an extraction/reporting tool (or two or three). They're happy to pay $50/mo. for this to be taken off their hands. Makes me laugh. In three months they've easily paid for the time it would've taken to grok a man page.

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
  16. Um by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't the point of GP that when you pay the proper amount, you can often count on -- gasp -- *competent people coming to work.

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:Um by magpie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since when have pay and competence had anything to do with each other?

      Look in your average board room if you want evidence of the lack of a link.

  17. Legitimate selects? by MartinG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What about employees who do legitimate selects from these databases and then load CSV files and other text files onto their laptops and PDAs?

    What kind of employee? General users shouldn't be doing selects directly anyway, but should be using software that limits what they can query to the minimum information they need, preferably not in a general purpose form like csv. On the other hand the developers of that software need to do all and any kinds of selects for a whole range of reasons. They however, should not be let anywhere near the actual production databases.

    This is how we do it anyway.

    --
    -- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz .@adgimnoprstu
    1. Re:Legitimate selects? by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      General users shouldn't be doing selects directly anyway, but should be using software that limits what they can query to the minimum information they need, preferably not in a general purpose form like csv. On the other hand the developers of that software need to do all and any kinds of selects for a whole range of reasons. They however, should not be let anywhere near the actual production databases.

      Users always want to manipulate info on spreadsheets to adjust it to their needs or pretty it up. Thus, being able to export the data is almost a must at a typical corporation.

      The alternative is to have a dedicated pool of re-formatting gurus who prepare the stuff for each user or department; but most companies don't want to do it this way because its difficult to reign in excess requests. Letting each group do their own filters out dumb or excessive requests because they have to allocate the reformatting labor from their own staff. Plus, a central pool can create bottlenecks and delays as low-priority requests are treated the same as high-priority ones (unless you implement a complex and costly tracking system).

      It's possible to limit the amount of data per CSV or spreadsheet download or request, but if they really need it, then they'll do one slice at a time until they have all they need. For example, do one month at a time in order to collect a full year. Thus, limiting the download does not prevent misuse of the data, it only makes more work for those determined to get the data for whatever project they're working on.

      "Proper" and thorough security is often not cheap. The cost of inflexible data has to be weighed against breach costs/risks. Managers and employees want flexible information systems to make better decisions. If you red-tape the process, it slows or prevents the flow of info, hurting the bottom line.
       

    2. Re:Legitimate selects? by houghi · · Score: 1

      What kind of employee?

      The CEO and the CFO kind of people who tell you to shove it and fire you when you want to impose restrictions to them, their internet access or their dog.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  18. I publish it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I give the data to the New York Times, and they publish it. Isn't that how sensitive data is supposed to be handled?

  19. Don't let PHB run the show and don't buy from golf by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't let PHB's run the show and don't buy based on golf course meetings.

  20. Extreme Prejudice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I erase it.

    Completely.

  21. Extreme Prejudice by spoonist · · Score: 1

    I erase it. Completely.

  22. Laptops: Yes PDAs: No by Bandman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can't imagine a need for an employee to have any bit of our client's data on their PDA. There's really no excuse for that at all.

    As for laptops, sure, we issue our employees laptops, with which they are able to work from home via VPN. There are occasions where the employee will have to save and modify excel spreadsheets, or CSV files, as you mentioned.

    Ideally, whole drive encryption would be utilized, but it's not (yet) in our case. I've been behind the times implementing that.

    1. Re:Laptops: Yes PDAs: No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for laptops, sure, we issue our employees laptops, with which they are able to work from home via VPN.

      Why do employees need a company-issued laptop computer to remotely access the corporate network via VPN? Why not have the employees use their home computer to remotely access the corporate network via VPN? With a proper VPN configuration no remote data can be stored locally.

  23. No, they don't unless in CA. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... then they send every customer a letter telling them it is gone and offering to pay someone to keep an eye on their credit. Other than that, I think the policy must be, "ignorance is bliss." That is just my two cents.

    They only send a letter if they do business in California where it's mandatory that they do it.

    There was a woman I talked to who, when logging on to her account, saw a different web page than usual asking for SSN and all this personal information. She called the bank in question to report it thinking it was a phishing site. The bank replied that, No, they were asking that information from her to make sure it was her because there was a data breach.

    I can't remember exactly which bank it was - maybe Capital One.

    Doesn't matter. All those fuckers, as you said, will do the absolute minimum and the customers can go fuck themselves.

  24. Remotely Delete Files by Nicademous · · Score: 1

    Another thing you can do to protect data is to install laptop anti-theft software to ensure that important data doesn't fall into the wrong hands. I have experience with this software because I did some work for the company that developed a product called Laptop Cop.

    Laptop Cop allows you to remotely delete or retrieve files over the Internet in the event that a laptop gets stolen. You can also monitor and control everything the thief does by logging into the web-based UI.

    Lots of companies are using it to protect their data and also understand why the laptop was stolen in the first place (to play video games? to conduct coporate espionage?) Because it lets you see all computer activity from the stolen laptop, you can know if the thief is trying to access confidential information or simply using it for their own personal reasons.

    It also gives you a confirmation of the deletion of data so that you know it was destroyed. And it deletes it to a U.S. Dept. of Defense standard that makes it unrecoverable regardless of the techniques used.

    I tested the product myself and it did what they claim. As long as the stolen pc gets an Internet connection, all is well which according to the FBI's crime statistics happens in 93% of the time.

    You can learn more if you're interested here:

    http://www.laptopcopsoftware.com/

    1. Re:Remotely Delete Files by sexconker · · Score: 1

      As long as it's not behind a firewall (external, obviously), and as long as they aren't after your data, these things work.

      Anyone who is after sensitive data knows about these systems. Don't connect it to the net. Copy the hard drive and work on the encryption/blackmail from somewhere else.

      If you want to sell/use the laptop itself, hack away (via flashing) at the anti-theft system, physically attack the chip.

      Out of band systems are nice, but they're not perfect, and they never will be. Physical access is king.

    2. Re:Remotely Delete Files by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      Does the FBI get involved with stolen laptops? i don't know, but i would like to suggest that they do, even if the laptop (or desktop) never is black-market sold across state lines. If the laptop can be fingerprinted and is identified as stolen, and the user (thief/misappropriating person) uses it to purchase or even browse items across state lines, then it should be regarded as interstate crime, so the FBI can become involved -- when they can.

      But, so long as they don't have an involvement, local police have the ball, and in most cases, once (if) it's retrieved, it'll be kept as evidence, meaning even if your data (i'm thinking non-corporate users) is NOT compromised, the police WILL investigate the contents for various reason, ownership verification being one of them, and to find out if the possessor committed any crimes with it. It could be QUITE a long time to get back your computer unless you happen to be lucky and see and chase the thief with the cops as your witness and they accept your proof of ownership on the scene.

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    3. Re:Remotely Delete Files by sexconker · · Score: 1

      The FBI and the local cops do not give a rats ass about your stolen laptop, your stolen bike, or your stolen plasma TV.

      They have no reason or desire to look through the data on some random laptop. You'd have to tell the cops that you saw a black terrorist pedophile run away with your laptop to get them to think about spending time and money to look at the contents of the hard drive.

      If it's a business laptop, they might be more polite, but they still don't give a shit. That laptop will just take up space in the evidence locker (assuming none of the cops want it for themselves), so they have no qualms about handing it over to whoever filed the complaint.

      If someone takes it without it being theirs, the cops are happy. Now they get to bag someone on a felony (filing a false police report).

  25. S******** D*** by fishbowl · · Score: 1

    The first rule of Sensitive Data is you don't talk about Sensitive Data.

    --
    -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  26. This is how we do it... by bogaboga · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, in our environment, (an insurance company), the system will allow those authorized to copy data onto their notebooks, but what happens is that what actually gets written or copied are not the actual data. From what I know it goes something like this:

    Say the actual Name is John Doe and SSN is 123-456-789 and DoB is 1976-12-08, what gets copied is something like Name: XvfC Gzd, SSN: 908-954-213, DoB: 2788-98-98.

    So you work with the dummy data instead of the actual thing. Once done with whatever you wanted to do, the data get processed to reflect the needed changes before being written to disk.

    Even after getting written, committing only happens after rigorous checks.

    1. Re:This is how we do it... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      That's masking / reversible encryption though.

      Someone can figure out the scheme by having access to just a few pieces of known data and a compromised laptop. For example, if they knew a few people's information and knew they were your customers, they'd have a huge head start.

      The dummy data itself is irrelevant. You could just as well have all dummy data set to null, and tie dummy entries to their corresponding entries in the original database at a single point.

      Storing the changes (as it sounds like you're doing) to the dummy data and then feeding them back to the original database to be applied isn't very safe. Someone could trawl through them and look for patterns (since people often do monotonous, repetitive tasks with data).

      The changes themselves should be encrypted (and not masked!) with a unique key for each entry. You can set up a public/private key system where the database holds both keys and the encryption key is sent to the laptop.

      This still doesn't resolve the issue of someone accessing the laptop and using it to poison your database.

    2. Re:This is how we do it... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Name: XvfC Gzd, ... So you work with the dummy data instead of the actual thing.

      My real name really is Xvfc Gzd, you insensitive clod! My family is from Czechoslovakia. -Xvfc
             

  27. Usenet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Upload it to usenet.

  28. Its not a problem really. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just sell it to the highest bidder.

  29. At The Biggest Bank in America by netsavior · · Score: 1

    I work for a big bank (hint). One that had a major customer data scare a few years back. All SSN/Name data is encrypted in the database and in all files. When it needs to be displayed it is decrypted then sent through our https presentation layer, or shown in a fat client of some kind. Ad-hoc reporting (such as pulling files for CSV extracts or whatever) is not allowed, at all on CSI (customer sensitive information) tables. As far as SQL permissions, only the applications that are cetrtified presentation mechanisms are allowed to do selects of those tables (which contain encrypted data).

    If they do somehow manage to get some sensitive data on to a laptop, our laptops are all lojacked, and FDE'd (Full disk encryption). Burining dvd R/CD-R drives are disabled, usb drives are auto-mounted as read only, email is monitored... Sure there are still ways around, but you would have to be a bit smarter than your average PHB to screw over the customer's privacy.

  30. I start by keeping as little of it as possible by CFD339 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Any project I manage, and most I am influential all, I make it a point to constantly ask "Why are we collecting this? How long do we need to keep it? When can we delete this data?"

    If you don't have it, you can't lose track of it and it can't be stolen from you.

    If you have to store sensitive data -- and in some cases we all do -- you try to isolate the sensitive parts of it from the identifying parts of it. Use hashed values for keys instead of actual names or account numbers, that kind of thing.

    There's the obvious of course -- data on laptops should be encrypted, and the key for that encryption shouldn't be taped to the inside of the battery door.

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
    1. Re:I start by keeping as little of it as possible by TimSSG · · Score: 1

      I agree with you; I was an SQL developer on an system that SSN on it, but no good reason to have them. I removed them all after I removed all reference to the column. The only sensitive data left was employee number and first and last names; these were required by the program. Tim S

  31. Pretty much a solved problem... by rbunker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is pretty much a solved problem. * only grant execute access to stored procedures, no ad hoc or dynamic sql at all * encrypt sensitive information so that backup tapes do not become a vulnerability * don't store anything you don't actually need...there are credit card authorization firms that will give you a token to store, so you never store the credit card number at all, even for recurring payments * segment particularly sensitive data entirely...the HR database should be a different instance on a different server etc. * don't give IT folks access they don't actually need....this protects them from suspicion, too * if you have especially sensitive stuff, use a data access intelligence product like rippletech to intercept database calls and stop suspect ones * don't allow the data to float around in clear text before it hits the database....clear text credit cards in the apache logs obviate the benefit of strong encryption in the database, and if it moves over the network in the clear any employee that can download snort owns it * use different vlans for sensitive information, or for inter-application communications that might be particularly rich with valuable information * use strong authentication for access to sensitive servers...several layers worth for connecting from home etc. etc. etc. all the normal security stuff.

    1. Re:Pretty much a solved problem... by corbettw · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is pretty much a solved problem.

      As opposed to formatting comments on a discussion board?

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    2. Re:Pretty much a solved problem... by rbunker · · Score: 1

      yep

  32. bah I wish people knew what was going on by bobbycool · · Score: 1

    Some organizations have no idea what the heck is happening after an application is deployed. I think it's quite a bit of wishful thinking that most IT staff actually know what's happening to the data. I know that some high profiled places don't use any sort of encryption for email, usb keys, cd's or laptops. They bank on the "goodness" of the people using their equipment. I guess that is to be expected in organizations that do not even have a data classification scheme. Anyway I hope that what I am speaking of is really not the norm.

  33. Depends on the data by Heembo · · Score: 1

    If any of your general (even technical) employees can execute a select statement and get credit card information, you are screwed. For small company, flush your credit card numbers as soon as you are done processing the transaction. (do not log them or persist them in any way)

    If you are a big company and really need to store credit cards beyond the transaction time, you are under the umbrella of PCI. PCI says you need to encrypt and isolate credit card data in a secure repository - where only a few trusted (and heavily background checked) employees have access.

    "Cryptography in the database" by symantec press is a good software-code-centric book on the topic.
    If you org cannot afford to build a solution to isolate and encrypt data in this regard, then you should not be storing it.

    Social Security, health, financial transaction records - they should all be dealt with in this form. The days of storing sensitive information plain text in a database are over.

    --
    Horns are really just a broken halo.
  34. Unless your process is driven by marketing by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And you might have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those pesky kids... from marketing and sales.

    Honestly, I don't know about government, but it most other places it seems to invariably be some sales or marketing guy who's lost a hard drive full of SSN's and contract data and whatnot. I guess it's simply a tale of greed. The prospect of selling an extra copy/insurance/account/contract is tempting enough to override all other concerns. So when you try saying that Mr Marketing GOD can't take all that data with him, guess who wins? Remember also that he's the guy who knows how to sell stuff to people, including his side of the story, while you're probably the security nerd that doesn't even speak management.

    To go on a roundabout tangent towards how _I_ would fix it: the funny thing is that the market can work in funny ways too. In a "bad money drives good money off the market" way. It applies to more than that. E.g.,

    - if some people can get away with tax evasion or corruption, they undercut and drive off the market the honest merchants. (See most of the ex-Communist Bloc.)

    - if some people can get away with monopolistic behaviour, they drive off the market those who don't. (See MS.)

    - and if some people can make a few extra bucks or save some costs by wiping their ass with your privacy, they gain an avantage over those who don't, and may eventually even drive them off the market one way or another.

    Etc.

    The thing is, the free market is just an optimization algorithm. It takes a given set of constraints, and eventually moves the economy towards a more optimal state. Optimal for those constraints. But like any optimization algorithm, you must make sure you set the constraints you need, or the solution may be something else than you expected. Bad behaviours can (and usually are) more "optimal" than good behaviours, if left unregulated. And eventually those who weren't destructive, either get the clue when the others are eating their lunch, or get to get bankrupt/bought/whatever.

    So basically what I'm saying is that nothing will really get fixed as long as there _is_ an economic advantage in ignoring privacy and security, and just giving the salesmen anything they want. The only way to fix it is if there was some kind of a negative feedback in the loop. When they'll stand to lose more money by losing your data, than anything they could gain by mis-using it, _then_ they'll start taking it seriously. Until then, nope.

    And it's not just a matter of personal principles and doing the right thing, regardless of what everyone else is doing. You're not isolated from the rest of the economy. If anyone wanted to be the "good" guy there, will find that the "bad" guys have an advantage over him. If he doesn't care, maybe his boss does, or maybe the shareholders just get rid of those shares and reward the bad guys instead.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  35. The fact of the matter... by R3d+Jack · · Score: 2, Informative

    is that this is not an IT issue. IT can help implement the solution, but someone at the "C" level has to consider this serious enough to create and enforce policies. We kill ourselves politically by even bringing up these sorts of issues (controlling what Sales, etc., can do with information), and that just makes the problem worse. We also make our lives miserable when the PHB's afflict us for our presumption. The best thing for you to do is implement sound security within the limits of your position, and then let it go. Unless you are the CIO, there is nothing you can do about this. Looking back from the tail end of a career, I should have joined an OSS project or found something else worthwhile for personal satisfaction.

  36. Prevent downloads and screen scrapes by postbigbang · · Score: 1

    Increasingly, applications are living in isolated boundaries, whether cloud, SaaS, or other ways that prevent a direct to user download. It's more difficult to use web apps and disable screen scraping, but others have found techniques that help prevent taking screen fulls of info that in turn, become text/formatted documents that walk out the door. Policy and trust are big helps, including machine lock-downs. But people increasingly reject lock-downs.

    DRM is currently perceived to be unweidly especially in database applications. That's why many apps now conceal most parts of an SSN or other saleable or interesting data. Having an appliance do the watching is nice, but it's also expensive and not necessarily rife with holes, either. Read 2600 if you have any doubts about this.

    In the end, a few heavy prosecutions could serve as a deterrant, but today, huge amounts of data walks out the door without anyone even knowing. Data thefts aren't even reported consistently when they're found.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  37. Start at the top by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The main problem usually happens at the top - or the legal department.

    I worked at a place with a clear and documented policy against transmitting sensitive information over insecure networks - including the old text pagers from RIM (prior to the GSM blackberry). It was routine for me to receive sensitive/proprietary information on my pager from legal counsel. When I pointed out their failure to secure that data, they simply said I was paranoid - not that I'd misinterpreted the policy. They were too busy to worry about that. I documented every instance and handed 1 copy to the CIO, another to the secretary of the Chief Counsel and the final with the CEO's secretary since I couldn't get in to see either of them. I did this on my last day working there - left for a better job.

    Turns out the new job wasn't any better with important data - they wanted me to recover data from a desktop where they escorted the contractor out of the building. I don't know why. Seems he didn't really use the machine and remoted into his home server and a colo server for almost everything. The contract didn't ensure he placed all the code into the corporate SCS weekly or that he would document it or write manuals. 6 months of hourly cash paid and basically nothing to show for it. I did find a password protected ZIP file full of stuff - took 3 days to brute force it, but it was over 3 weeks old and the code didn't run.

    The company didn't even have a $20 background check performed before giving him access to the network. I would have liked a clean drug test too.

    Also, being tight at the start of a company is easier than after the barn doors are already open. Most of us start ups don't have the willpower to do this - or the technical expertise.

    1. Re:Start at the top by plover · · Score: 1

      The cure has to come from the tip-top, as well. Your company needs a Chief Information Security Officer, meaning an executive with a seat on the board. The CISO needs the support from the board to write these policies, the authority to punish violators (including the UberSalesGuy in marketing,) and the balls to do so when necessary. He also needs to be qualified for the position, and to have a qualified and competent staff working for him.

      The best way for that to work is for the CEO to introduce him and sell him to the rest of your shop: "Here's Mr. Smith, he's our new CISO, and he'll be responsible for *anything* relating to information security. That means *everyone* will follow our policies regarding information security, including me. Our company would be sued out of existence if we had a breach like this one (point to random news article about the most recent data breach) and we simply can't afford it.

      "He's going to write up some policies that we all must follow, and then he'll be creating Tiger Teams to help you get your laptops cleaned up of sensitive data. Don't worry, we'll fully help and support you in following the policies; but if you bypass them, it will be your job."

      And Mr. Smith better be competent. He needs to produce those clear policies quickly, and he needs to get programs in place to begin securing all your info system assets. There's a lot to the job.

      --
      John
    2. Re:Start at the top by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't get me started on legal council. We have an SSL encrypted nfuse gateway that acts as a tunnel into our internally encrypted Citrix servers which allow access to our encrypted Lotus Notes servers, and what does our freaking senior legal council do, forward highly confidential emails to their home account! Her freaking excuse was that she couldn't open it on her Blackberry and figuring out the Citrix solution was too hard. We have near minimum wage data entry folks that have ZERO problem with it after being shown once and this ostensibly intelligent woman can't figure it out!?!? It's one freaking URL, and as long as you either have the MS JVM, a Sun compatible JVM, or our standard client load it just works!

    3. Re:Start at the top by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      A good CISO should definitely make use of Tiger Teams. Easiest way to show that security is necessary is to hire a third party to attempt to break into your systems, steal data, etc.

      At the next board meeting, I think the CISO will have support when he brings up the theoretical losses (cash, data loss, etc.) because of the lax security.

    4. Re:Start at the top by apparently · · Score: 1
      I would have liked a clean drug test too.

      Sounds like you could take some lessons on not collecting data that's none of your fucking business.

    5. Re:Start at the top by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      My experience with companys that try to steal data has been laughable. The best the last guy could get was that we gave him a sheet of blank paper and a empty cardbord box.

      He claimed he could use this to steal more data. We are a community college, if someone comes in asking for a sheet of paper, I feel we would be rude not to give it to them.

      He also took issue with my office being unlocked. Of course my notebook is full disk encrypted and always on my person so the most he could of stole was my monitor after he unscrewed it from the arm it is attached to. He didn't even find my silly 'master password list' I invented and left in my top drawer.

    6. Re:Start at the top by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      Hire an admin or colleague that only you know and that you know can break into systems?

    7. Re:Start at the top by fataugie · · Score: 1

      When you get out of college and see that almost everyone requires one....you'll change your tune or you'll be taking my order at McDonalds.

      --

      WTF? Over?

    8. Re:Start at the top by apparently · · Score: 1
      When you get out of college and see that almost everyone requires one....you'll change your tune or you'll be taking my order at McDonalds.

      Too bad for you that I'm seven years out of college, and doing just fine.

      Would you like to try again with a response, or do you need to take your high horse out to graze?

    9. Re:Start at the top by Arterion · · Score: 1

      Does mean it's ethical or right. I agree with GP about drug tests. I really don't use drugs, but I wouldn't work for any company who wanted to drug test me. I've already decided if or when that happens, I'll go take the test to prove I'm not a druggie, then decline their offer citing their drug test policy as the reason.

      It really is none of their fucking business what I do with my own time. If they want to do drug tests, it just proves they don't give jack shit about my privacy or my personal time. Those people are exactly the type of schmucks who wouldn't think twice about having my sensitive personal data on their unencrypted PDA phone which they accidently left at McDonalds for MaccyMcCrackhead to find and sell to his friend who's into ID theft.

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    10. Re:Start at the top by fataugie · · Score: 1

      If you notice, I didn't really agree one way or the other, just stated what I see. I work for a contract agency placing software engineers, etc on contracts for clients. Every one we deal with requires drug testing and background checks before they step through the door.

      Whether or not I agree or you agree does nothing to change the policy of the client. You want to work there? You have to take and pass the tests....simple as that. It's not uncommon for this to occur.

      --

      WTF? Over?

  38. Data Security by halhub · · Score: 1

    We use a 3 prong approach. 1. end point sercurity 2. IronKey Enterpise USB keys with MokaFive 3. RAS encription If you have any question please contact me

  39. Just... by DeltaQH · · Score: 0

    DonÂt create any sensitive information

  40. gf by pak9rabid · · Score: 1

    Same way I deal with a whiney girlfriend...with large amounts of apathy, followed by a small amount of back-peddling.

  41. Wrong Approach by nonsequitor · · Score: 1

    I would never let end users directly access that data, instead they would get anonymized unique identifiers for working with the data as an end user. That way if their computer is compromised none of the sensitive data would be. That limits the exposure and centralizes the security. Then who cares if the laptop gets stolen, hacked, dunked in liquid nitrogen, etc... There's nothing there to steal even if its the employee trying to steal it.

  42. How about $10,000 per SSN? by rueger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It seems like most of these stories involve some boob carrying data away on a laptop or USB key then losing it or having it stolen. Sure you want to acknowledge and deal with boobishness, but you also really need to address why the boob found it necessary to carry data away from the workplace in the first place, and why management encouraged and/or endorsed that action.

    If employees can complete work during a regular work day then there is no reason to take it home with them.

    If management insists that data security matters, it is possible to set up systems so that it's not possible for employees to copy of chunks of data and remove them.

    The solution likely is to nail these companies to the wall, and make it more expensive to let data out of the workplace that it is to hire more or better employees and develop secure internal systems to protect data.

    As it stands now a company can usually get by with firing one employee and saying "Oh my God! We promise this will never ever happen again!"

    For a start, how about a penalty of $10,000 for every SSN or credit card number released to the wild, no matter what the reason or excuse? Suddenly losing a laptop with 100,000 customer files will become a VERY big deal.

    1. Re:How about $10,000 per SSN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about a penalty of $10,000 for every SSN or credit card number released to the wild, no matter what the reason or excuse?

      How much for every song on the laptop?

  43. One word...OBFUSCATE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In order to protect the personal information in our database anytime it's outside of the production environment we obfuscate the data. Any and all SSN/EIN/Banking/Account Numbers/Routing Transit data is overwritten with random values, Employer information is randomly swapped with other employers, as is all membership information. The only thing that remains the same is the number of members associated with a particular employer. Beyond that the data is changed. The result is if this database was compromised, there would be nothing to worry about.

  44. Ideas for making SSNs more secure (Re:Policies) by TheScienceKid · · Score: 1

    Um, why not treat the SSNs the same way you do passwords, and add a salt? store something like "$salt$H(SSN + salt)" ?

    Obviously, what length of salt, and the actual hash algorithm you use, along with the way you construct the cleartext to hash, will vary. But adding some kind of salting to the hashing of SSNs should make brute forcing harder. (admittedly, if you only want 1 person's SSN, you only need the 10^9 hashes for that given salt.)

    Consider something like PBKDF2 (a Password-Based Key Derivation Function) that makes going from password to key sloooooow (eg, 5 seconds).

    Sure, you can parallelise this, but if you're trying to make this hard.

    On the other hand - if all you need is to have a function of the form getEmployeeBySSN(s : SSN) : EmployeeObject then why not keep the SSNs serverside, and just use a synthetic (sequence-generated) primary key on remote copies (missing out the SSNs entirely).

    Hope that wasn't too much of a ramble.

    1. Re:Ideas for making SSNs more secure (Re:Policies) by bucky0 · · Score: 1

      Oh, you should definately salt it, but if someone is dumb enough to pass a SSN around, what would keep them from sending the salt with it?

      --

      -Bucky
    2. Re:Ideas for making SSNs more secure (Re:Policies) by smellotron · · Score: 1

      You're supposed to send the salt around with the encrypted result. The point of the salt is not to be secret, but to add new sources of variance to the hash, making it harder to reverse-engineer (and impossible to trivially detect duplicate SSNs/passwords).

      You also need a different salt added to every SSN. If you're adding the same salt everywhere, you are worse off because the consistency makes it easier to reverse the hashing algorithm. This is essentially what caused WEP to be broken so easily.

    3. Re:Ideas for making SSNs more secure (Re:Policies) by bucky0 · · Score: 1

      If you have the salt and the hashing algorithm and there's only 10^9 possible SSNs (a billion minus one), then it's trivial to just bruteforce the numbers. It just becomes a security-through obscurity race.

      Hashing functions are worthless if there is a small enough finite set of inputs.

      --

      -Bucky
    4. Re:Ideas for making SSNs more secure (Re:Policies) by smellotron · · Score: 1

      Hmm, good point. I'm used to thinking in terms of passwords, where it works (because the input set size is much greater). Hashes are worthless for SSNs because it boils down to requiring a private key, at which point it's probably better to refer to it as "encryption", not "hashing".

  45. I know what my company would do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Fire me.

    The company I work for owns a handful of other companies - three of which have sensitive data.

    I have access to database of consumer data - 1.7 trillion records annually of detailed transactions of consumer purchases (date/time, street address, cash register number, products purchased, usually some personally identifiable piece of data) It accounts for about 65% of that market's retail data. They audit my access to individual customers, every year they come around asking about all my accumulated permissions from that year... if I don't have a good reason to have permission to that part of the database anymore, they yank it.

    Another database... this one happens to contain HIPAA data. Again, annual audits, they yank access, I have to go to hours of sessions each year to review that years detailed HIPAA guidelines, with lawyers, and sign contracts saying I'll uphold them.

    A third company... same HIPAA compliance rules.

    All three are voluntarily SOX compliant as well... meaning, in our case, no unauthorized updates to production.

    So... how do we solve it?

    a) they closely monitor for unauthorized access at the client level, not the application level. Many times, even when working on the system, I don't need even temporary production access; we have a cleaned development database (either client data that's signed waviers or that's been scrubbed by data specialists) Production access is limited to a key few, and even their actions have to be approved ahead of time by an audit review board. Emergency approvals are possible by key individuals, but those are reviewed after the fact. They can and will drag you out on the carpet if you've been slipping anything in.

    b) You mention that they seem pretty good about finding out when people have accessed things they haven't. The real trick to that is limiting access to a very few individuals. I'm not talking about every DBA in the building; I'm talking about a few production DBAs with production system passwords, and most of the rest may learn a password for a project; but then it gets changed and they might not need it anymore... then you audit everything - audit the accounts annually or more often. Audit application accesses - every time the app touches anything, you should be able to tell what the change was (before and after values), who did the change and when from the audit log. Log read access to individual clients at least, maybe more granular if your security requires it. By making sure that 95% of the people that make changes do so through the application and not direct DBA access (yes, even the technical people), you limit your exposure greatly.

    c) We make clear policies about what is and isn't allowed with the data. You are not allowed to save the data off; we have cleaned versions for development and sales to isolate access to those that strictly do need it. If you do a file transfer, say between servers, you use backed up high speed redundant storage for all of that - in the server room. Physical access to servers is logged (if you're VISA CISP compliant, you're supposed to have been doing that for years now). People can and still do occasionally use laptops to transfer data or save reports with sensitive information (most of our employees never see sensitive information, only information that's been scrubbed or in aggreggate form)

    d) fire people that break policies. We don't do it on the first offense generally - but we monitor for policy violations before they become a problem. First time we find sensitive data where it shouldn't be (we have scanners on network backed up folders as well as the typical corporate spyware - details confidential sorry to say), they get a polite warning. Second offense, laptop is locked to desk with a different lock for the night. Third offense, you find your laptop has been replaced with a desktop. I would assume any serious and/or malicious breach would skip straight to fourth offense, what I call "management chain of risk and liability" You know, i

  46. You deal with a sensative Data by.... by jflo · · Score: 0

    You deal with a sensative Data by turning his emotion chip off... DUH!

    --
    WWPD - What Would Picard Do?
  47. I use a really strong password by Nimey · · Score: 1

    "Peekaboo". Would you have guessed it?

    --
    Hail Eris, full of mischief...

    E pluribus sanguinem
  48. just don't by FonkiE · · Score: 1

    this might sound stupid: but i just don't keep really sensitive data ...

  49. Deidentification Software by adougher9 · · Score: 0

    This query is related to deidentification software. This is software that identifies all personal data in files. I am using this for example to make certain projects that have sensitive information in them available as open source projects. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find one that meets my needs and so I have written my own, called "classify". Google "frdcsa classify" to read more. Anyways, that will only turn up old pages on classify - to find out more subscribe to the mailinglist or email me: andrewdo@frdcsa.org

  50. Official policies are just ass covering by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 1
    For the most part, official policies are just there to protect the organisation from prosecution.

    Policies might tell staff to shred customer documents, but are shredders made available? Probably not. Instead the docs are put in boxes for shredding and recycling and get lost during transit to the bulk shredding service across town.

    Policies on passwords and data locking? Yup they are there, but are they effectively implemented? Are staff trained? Are there automated procedures to force frequent password changes?

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  51. Why not do what many IT workers do? by Whuffo · · Score: 1

    Start by searching hard drives for JPG, MPG, and MP3 files. Copy the good stuff to a USB drive; you can compile quite a collection this way...

  52. use a safe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when u think u can't deal with something technologically.....
    try to fallback what human intelligence did so many yrs way before computers

  53. Easy & effective password memorization by supernova_hq · · Score: 1

    Another one I've found to be quite effective is to use the first letter of each word in a sentence, then change some of those letters to similar numbers and some to uppercase, then some of those numbers to the character on that same key (1=!, 2=@, etc)

    1) bears love to eat lots of yummy berries
    2) blteloyb
    3) b12EL0yb
    4) b!2EL)yb

    You now have an incredibly hard to guess password, but as long as the person remembers that bears love berries, they can usually remember which are numbers/capital/symbols.

  54. SemiAnonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't understand you people. Why do you ask serious questions on slashdot when you know damn well > 70% of the replies are gonna be modded funny..

  55. Simple answer: by Ortega-Starfire · · Score: 1
    --
    ---- Liquid was a patriot ----
  56. Data loss prevention products by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can only do so much to keep things locked down. At some point employees need access to this data, and then you need to ensure they do not take it outside the organization. There is an industry of products that are targeted at this type of security issue.

    Wikipedia has a poor article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Loss_Prevention

    Products in this market tend to be able to detect and prevent security issues like:

    - Network traffic containing sensitive information leaving the organization (email, ftp, http/s)
    - Users copying files to removable storage, printing, faxing, ...
    - Shared repositories containing sensitive data without proper constraints

    One such product is Vontu DLP (www.vontu.com)

  57. you got it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wish more people would do it. the vast majority of the times now these different places want your ssn and they have zero legit need for it, but they intimidate people into giving it to them,. Where it then goes on to be "lost on a laptop". Whenever some feather merchant or anyone says they "need" it I demand to see their written loss guarantee compensation plan. they stare. I go "OK, if you lose my data due to incompetence or theft, how much will I be compensated?" "Oh., nothing? You ain't getting it then" Shuts em up. I got id theft way back early 90s and man it just sucked clearing that mess up, ever since them, the only people get my ssn are employers, full stop. Not even utilities, I refuse, I'll show them a drivers license for ID, but they don't get that ssn number. Sometimes there is a hassle and I (politely) demand to see management and their lawyer, once it goes that far they cave.

    Anyway, good for you, hope your surgery goes well, funny, went to the vets the other day to take some pets in for shots, they wanted SSN, I wrote "no way" on the lines on the forms I filled out.

  58. Full Drive (Boot) Encryption by jjm496 · · Score: 1

    It drives our users nuts because it does hog some resources and it takes time to decrypt on the fly, but when they won't listen, you have to force them to be safe with the data. We also use a system that allows us to use our domain password rules and force complex passwords of a minimum length. Some really hate that, but tough, its for the good of the company.

    No personal thumbs drives, no personal laptops on the network, CD burning only for certain people, no floppy drives, etc.

    We work with some very sensitive data so even all of that is barely keeping up with government auditors.

    And that is just for the little files they may take with them.

  59. Cornell Spider by nfsilkey · · Score: 1

    SENF is cool, but I leveraged Cornell's Spider to get my SSN|CC scan on. Even thought I work at utexas.edu (home of SENF), perl > java kthx. :)

  60. Re:Easy, but not optimal by quist · · Score: 1

    It is not a case of "Firing employees randomly" when there is a clear, written policy, but I understand what you're getting at -- authoritarian mgmt isn't the best sol'n in the long run.

    A better path is a 1-2-3 style -- verbal, written, termination -- with probationary periods between. The key difference is the objective -- education vs simple weeding. By educating the offender you have the opportunity to bring the goofer-upper to an understanding of the why behind the policy. You can nurture a basic, but through, understanding and practice of info security.

    hmmm... what am I thinking? This is the modern world -- thinking long term isn't just out, it's wrong... ah, eph'it, I'll still do things this way.

  61. Views anyone? by glitch23 · · Score: 1

    But what about employees who do legitimate selects from these databases and then load CSV files and other text files onto their laptops and PDAs?

    Maybe someone should teach them how to implement views in their DB so that it cuts down on just how many people can do 'selects' to query the DB for sensitive information.

    --
    this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
  62. encrypted disks by Custard · · Score: 1

    I have an application where images of thousands of checks travel, by laptop, to the bank twice a week. A number of the people whose routing/account numbers we have are rather well off. The people in possession of the laptops are very non-technical.

    I have used EFS, PGPDisk, and PrivateDisk. PGP and PrivateDisk with a hardware token. None of them worked worth a darn. PGP was especially annoying. I used to be a PGP fanboy; I really wanted it to work.

    I have started using FDE hard drives (Seagate and Fujitsu have them, maybe others.) So far they are stable, but I will be happier when Bruce Schneier or someone comments on them. It is darn hard to find solid information on these things.

    Dan

  63. Use technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use technology use remoting(citrix or whatever) to the computers as techology and disallow any copy paste to local machine. Make email's internal only.Disable USBs. So the only thing that can happen is reading the screen and writing down the stuff... but that would be planned crime/violation

  64. Be transparent and don't insult your users by webagogue · · Score: 1

    Explain WHY the data is sensitive, in measured, even terms, and how it can be abused. If you rely on unbelievable, larger-than-life stories of data loss and the horror and gnashing of teeth that resulted, people who know just enough to be dangerous will call BS and promptly ignore your warnings. Also, please don't pretend that all data is equally sensitive. Everyone (including you) knows it is not. Claiming otherwise will force users to decide for themselves what is "really" sensitive and what is not... and you probably don't want that.

    --

    Knowledge is valuable. Ignorance is dangerous. Censorship is unacceptable. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10
  65. Encrypt it with fruit loops by TheGreatOrangePeel · · Score: 1

    Ok, not exactly fruit loops, but there's a program called Toucan. Whenever I need to swap files from one device to another I drop them through the handy encryption functionality first. Haven't needed it often, but kept a credit card number from floating away from me that way once already ... not that I would have stored that un-encrypted in the first place.

    For any device of dubious origins/destinations, I use Eraser to delete the files off.

    The nice thing about what I've linked is that they're the portable versions of the app ... meant to float on your thumb drive in your pocket so you can use them most anywhere.

  66. The Fastest HIPAA compliant Encryption Algorithm by Mr.+Lwanga · · Score: 1

    Overlooked and misunderstood, Rotate by Thirteen Places, for years has been ridiculed by so called security "experts" and academics, who miss the subtle complexity of this ancient encryption tool. The simplicity is its genius.

  67. Encryption, encryption and common sense by trydk · · Score: 3, Informative

    I work as a contractor for a number of companies and need to take sensitive data home (like their customer contracts, proposals, etc.) on my laptop.

    To make sure I do my best to keep their data away from others (especially since I travel a lot), I encrypt twice. First I encrypt the hard drive (before booting the OS) and then I encrypt the individual customer's files in separate "containers".

    Truecrypt has a nice feature for its encryption of containers (I use files with uninformative names like turbo.dat, haiku.wav, just for the fun of it) that it will automatically unmount the containers when the computer is put into sleep mode or hibernation, which means that no customer data is accessible when I am travelling.

    And regarding common sense: I do not keep any unecessary data on my laptop. I do not copy unneeded data to it and I remove all unneeded data immediately. I keep the different customer's data in separate cointainers and do not open different customer's containers at the same time to reduce the exposure, should somebody steal the laptop from my hands. I keep it locked to a big object whenever I work at a fixed place for some time and always before I leave it out of sight. I lock the screen every time I leave it.

    And guess what? It doesn't take too much time either.

    1. Re:Encryption, encryption and common sense by segedunum · · Score: 1

      With respect, you're putting an awful lot of effort into managing this yourself when it really is just too much hard work. It also doesn't get around the fundamental problem that, encrypted or not, double encrypted or not, your data is still physically lost if the laptop gets lost or stolen.

      You can't trust all your employees to manage this themselves, and quite frankly, we use computers and networks so we don't have to think about this kind of crap. Procedures loosen up over time and naturally get lax if there is more important work to be done. If you're travelling and have some serious sporadic internet bandwidth problems I can understand a set up of this kind, but it should be a pretty extreme exception.

      Is there any particular reason you can't use a remote desktop to do your work remotely, or access it over a VPN? This means that if your laptop gets lost, damaged or stolen you haven't actually lost any work at all, there's no risk of any data getting physically stolen and if you've managed outside access properly there's no risk of anyone getting remote access. You can simply revoke a VPN certificate.

      Meanwhile, you can get back up and running in little to no time, because all you need is a new laptop with a remote/VPN client, and there isn't even any pointless installing, re-installing and configuring of any client software that you might need - Truecrypt, for example.

      Honestly, what your doing really does sound like too much time and effort, and it's the trap I see an awful lot of people falling into. They talk about local encryption if it will somehow solve all their problems, when it's where the data is physically located that's the real problem.

    2. Re:Encryption, encryption and common sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a number of vendors who help with key and encryption management. All the encrypted data in the world is useless if your certs unwittingly expire and expose to the public where your holes are.

    3. Re:Encryption, encryption and common sense by trydk · · Score: 1

      You are so absolutely right ... only I spend too much time in airplanes, and so far no one have allowed me to drag out my 3G-based network card and use it on board.

      To boot, some of the companies I work for have not got a proper VPN setup either, thus preventing that approach! (Bummer, that.)

      Regarding loss of data, I carry a copy of all essential files (encrypted, naturally) on a diminutive USB-drive, which I keep on me at all times. (Please don't tell the people at the airport security control!) Furthermore I unload data to my clients' servers, whenever I can (at least I am not responsible for their security :-). To facilitate the backup to the USB drive, I have some homegrown scripts (did I hear somebody groan?) that automatise everything, apart from entering a password now and again.

      Oh and I have not lost any data yet (apart from computer or software breakdowns while entering data before backup like when Windows does a BSOD after I have composed a masterpiece of a report) in my almost forty years of working with computers.

      All of this does not change the fact that you are right: Whenever possible keep your data in a secure environment and access it remotely through a VPN tunnel.

  68. Errrr, Use the Technology Available to You by segedunum · · Score: 1

    You know, in this day of the internet, where you can easily get outside access without too much cost and trouble, VPNs and alike, I'm always amazed that some organisations still think that the way to get outside access to data, or to get data from A to B for access, is to burn it to a CD, download it on to a USB drive or download the entire database into a CSV or even a whole Excel file. I'm also flabbergasted that any non-developer would really need to do this. These files inevitably get left scattered around, and despite what anyone might tell you there is absolutely no way of dealing with this whatsoever. You've made it an unmanaged mess, and it will stay one.

    You'd think that VPNs, Terminal Services, remote X and stuff like NX Server just didn't exist. If you want to give outside access to something, and you want somebody to work on something while they're off-site, let them log in via Terminal Services or a remote X session and let them actually do their work physically on-site. If that's not quite possible, let them access the services they need through a secure VPN so critical data is never taken off site and you never open the can of worms where you are bullied into relaxing access to solve the off-site access problem. If someone leaves you just cut their login access and they can't get to any critical data any more.

    Seriously, this is what the internet and your bandwidth should be *used* for. While in a small minority of cases there will be some people who will need local access to some data, or there might be bandwidth problems, these will be few and far between and should never be solved by arbitrarily letting any idiot with a laptop download a massive CSV dump of a database.

    Is it me?

    1. Re:Errrr, Use the Technology Available to You by segedunum · · Score: 1

      Oh, and I haven't even touched above on the numerous benefits of central management, cutting down on running around trying to troubleshoot local deployment issues, re-installing and re-configuring local software, provisioning new systems, installing configuring client software when laptops inevitably get lost, stolen or damaged, data cleansing and purging when a machine is due to be scrapped and generally running around like a complete blue arsed fly.

      I'm not sure whether it is the Windows client culture that has got us like this, but management of local and client software and systems is a PITA and has only succeeded in creating a market for companies to lube up and screw you for lots of pointless client software that needs yet more installing and configuring to manage this problem.

  69. data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First have policies in place to let people know what they can and cant do with data. Allow no personal devices, laptops,cd,cellphones,usb devices to be connected to pc's at work.
    Any computer leaving the company must have encryption enabled or disk less virtual desktop laptops. that way data never leaves the company.

  70. Oklahoma State by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    okstate has started providing SSN scanning software for departments to use. I also know the Navy is starting to get serious about similar initiatives.

    1. Re:Oklahoma State by nfsilkey · · Score: 1

      Whadda ya know, you guys are pushing Cornell's Spider ...

  71. Data Loss Prevention by adrenalinekick · · Score: 1

    Wish I had seen this earlier, but you describe almost exactly the use case for data loss prevention software. Specifically the endpoint protection vector. There are several companies that sell software to protect data at the endpoint, Vontu (now part of Symantec), Vericept, Websense, RSA and Orchestria to name a few.

    There are three vectors generally protected by data loss prevention software suites: data in motion - at the network border over email or web traffic; data at rest - stored data in repositories such as file shares and databases; and data in use - data stored on endpoint laptops and workstations. They are content aware applications that will monitor and alter the allowed usage of sensitive data.

  72. Honey data by TheLink · · Score: 1

    One of the things you might be able to do is to create fake records (don't forget which ones are fake!). Some should never appear on the internet, and some might appear, but you have special contact addresses, email, phone for the,

    Then if the fake records ever show up on Google, or on one of those databases for sale or if someone/something ever tries to contact _your_ Mr Alan Adams (whether via phone, email or snail mail), you know you've got a problem.

    You could have modified records - e.g. have a real person (you for instance) but special contact addresses instead. Or your contact addresses but different name or surname.

    Of course, some applications/bosses might not like fake records or even slightly altered ones.

    --
  73. Get a handle on it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out Varonis. It's easy to see who is creating and accessing data-- sensitive or otherwise. It will also display file system permissions from both a data and a user/group perspective (bi-directional), as well as where permissions may be excessive. It helps put context around data classification technologies (anyone use this data, anyway?), and helps data leakage projects by showing you how to secure the data further upstream.

  74. We monitor the stored data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work in retail and part of being PCI compliant is not storing track data on computers, but how do you prevent people from doing it. Part of our system is using tools from PCI vendors to monitor the data on computers at our retail locations. We use Trustkeeper from a company called Trustwave. Their agent scours drives to look for information that people shouldn't be storing. It works well for us

  75. Two words - add salt. by Peeteriz · · Score: 1

    Add some random salt to the SSN before, and it automagically becomes as secure as any 160-bit hash.

    Bu why would you need to hash them? Just make sure with your usual database permission structure that in most of your applications can access only a view of the table that does not have the SSN column at all.

    1. Re:Two words - add salt. by plover · · Score: 1

      Add some random salt to the SSN before, and it automagically becomes as secure as any 160-bit hash.

      While it will keep the single instance of the SSN secure, it doesn't work as a customer ID because it's not repeatable. If your customer returned tomorrow, you would be unable to arrive at the same hash value because you wouldn't generate the same random salt. And if you don't care what the value is, and you can't reverse it, then why keep it at all? You may as well use nine zeros, or an incrementing sequence number, or just delete the field altogether.

      Or did you mean to use a random salt the same way unix crypt uses a salt (keeping the cleartext salt with the hashed data?) Again, it's attackable via dictionary; you just have to dictionary attack each SSN one at a time. Pre-generated rainbow tables won't work, but any particular SSN can be broken in a few hours.

      There's yet another salted-hash alternative, which is to generate and distribute one instance of a random salt, then apply it to the hashing of every SSN. It's repeatable, so you can generate the same hash for the same SSN day-after-day. But at that point you have to protect the salt exactly the same as you would protect a symmetric encryption key, otherwise an attacker could learn your salt and build a complete dictionary in short order. In that case, since you're now in the business of keeping secrets, you are better off using reversible encryption such as AES. That way you're not tempted to think the salt isn't as critical as a key.

      To prevent this, you might think to construct a "hashing oracle", which would be a service on a protected machine that hashes SSNs while securely protecting the secret salt. But there's a nifty attack against this, too. If the attacker can call your oracle, the attacker doesn't even have to know how your hash works. They can simply use your oracle to build their dictionary. It may not be as fast as generating them locally on my desktop, but it works the same way. (Intrusion detection systems and other monitoring tools can help mitigate this risk.)

      This is not an easily solved problem.

      --
      John
    2. Re:Two words - add salt. by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      no, it isn't.. but doing something like hash(salt + hash(dob + hash(ssn))) will at least make it problematic for deconstructing.. and even though you can reverse a single ssn in less than a day, it will take far longer for a million records than not doing anything. It's simply making the data harder to get to. If your doors and windows are all locked, then a burglar is less likely to break into your house, even if it doesn't have a security system...

      As to your oracle idea, that adds a security system to the equation... when the alarms go off, you call the FBI, and they can at least start tracking the criminals down... though, it dramatically reduces the time it takes to decode the data...

      The question becomes, is it better to lock your doors and windows... OR have an alarm system, and all your valuables already packed in portable luggage in the middle of the living room floor...

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  76. Updating policies, etc. by Aram+Fingal · · Score: 1

    My employer is currently going through a change of policies after an incident where someone stole laptops which had SSN's on them. They were actually locked up at the time but with flimsy cables. The cables were found cut and the laptops gone. At first the users of the machines said that there had been no sensitive data on them but then, once backups were analyzed, it became apparent that there was a lot of sensitive data present. That's lesson number one. End users often don't even realize the sensitivity of what they're working with.

    We are in the process of changing policies and procedures. It seems that the main measure taken will be to change workflows and setups to locate data on file shares rather than on local hard drives or other disks. We are, in fact, using Find_SSNs but only for Mac users. The recommended software for Windows is Identity Finder because it's much more user friendly. Senf is more user friendly than Find_SSNs but I think the reason we chose against it was that, in testing, it had a higher rate of false positives and false negatives.

  77. Financial Institution by Rycross · · Score: 2, Informative

    We're very picky in the first place about who we allow to access customer data. We have a separate deployment team and production support team who are authorized to see the customer data. The QA team can get copies of customer data to cover certain test cases. This data can be partially scrubbed. The development team only gets thoroughly scrubbed or generated data. We handle data on a need-to-know basis, basically.

    But your question is more geared at legitimate data on laptops. Well, our corporate policy is that all laptops have hard-drive level encryption, no exceptions. If you lose that laptop, you have to report it to our incident team. Your laptop has to be secured at all times in the office, and if you lose track of it at any time in, say, an airport, thats an incident that needs to be reported. You can't let other people use or borrow your laptop if you have sensitive data on it.

    Thumb drives are forbidden unless they are an officially sanctioned encrypted thumb drive. Those thumb drives cannot be used with non-corporate machines. If you violate these rules you can be penalized anywhere from sanctions to termination.

    Additionally, our internet is proxied, firewalled, and heavily monitored. Doing tricks with tunneling to get around the web censor software or firewall rules can get you pink slipped.

    Obviously this is a high level overview. The best thing to do is try to give that data to as few people as possible and make them accountable. If someone has access to that data they can leak it, despite any technological measures you take. The best course of action is to make sure as few people have the data as possible, that they understand how to protect it properly, and that they are properly punished if they don't practice due-diligence in protecting the data.

  78. security consulting by sallgeud · · Score: 1

    Part of my day job involves security of data and compliance with government regulations to that effect...

    I can state very simply that the vast majority (90%+) of companies which I've seen have done absolutely nothing to secure their data in any way.

    I should state that I'm certain that's not reflective of the real world... as organizations that have their sh*t together aren't nearly as likely to employ our services. However, I'd be willing to bet, given that most companies aren't large and can't afford a security staff, that it may be as high as 75%.

  79. Information Rights Management by smooth123 · · Score: 1

    You could use products like Authentica to manage sensitive information.

  80. Standard procedure... by HellYeahAutomaton · · Score: 1

    Shred. Shred. Shred.
    Deny. Deny. Deny.

  81. Re:Remotely Delete Files... hehehhe by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    You're stating the other side i didn't cover.... Thanks... It IS a sad state of affairs, isn't it?

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  82. My solution by deets101 · · Score: 1

    I hate every time something happens and people say.... "The goverment should tax them more or fine them". This really only gives the government more of a reason to find money. Once that is done, NOTHING is done to fix the problem, they don't want to shoot the cash cow, right? So here is what I would like to see happen.

    Every time a compnay looses data they have to pay the people who had their data lost.

    Say a credit card company looses 10,000 names, card numbers, SSN, and DOB's. Well, they have to pay every person in that list $12,000. The government does need a cut, otherwise thay have no reason to spend money to make sure they pay.

    This is the only way to give them a reason to care about security.

    --

    --
    My parents went to Slashdot and all I got was this lousy sig.
    1. Re:My solution by bamwham · · Score: 1

      ...Or to stop reporting the thefts. Would you rather know at once if your data is stolen, or find out only in the rare instance when a company is discovered through external forces, well after the fact, to have lost data?

      My own solution for sensitive work data (I'm in academics so this is basically students' grades and letters of reference) is to keep the data on the network drive owned by my school, only manipulate it on the computer in my office, and keep the hard copies locked in a file cabinet in my office. In addition files are encrypted and some garbage encrypted files with similar names to the grade books are mixed in. Once the seven year window is open the copies both hard and soft are destroyed although an exam or two may survive with the name inked out. The main tenet being that at no point is a copy of the grade book outside of a secured area that is the responsibility of the school to keep secure.

      I would love to see the companies I deal with treat my data with such respect, but I just don't see a way to force it on them without at the same time giving them an incentive to sit on a loss.

  83. Re:The Fastest HIPAA compliant Encryption Algorith by skis · · Score: 1

    I think that double rot13 would achieve a faster HIPAA complaint rate. EDIT: I read the subject again and realized it said compliant, not complaint...

  84. What big companies do by Emanckin · · Score: 1

    They use Data Loss Prevention software. I founded one of them, so go ahead and call me biased, but the "F1000" crowd have this problem big time.

    DLP systems will tell you where the secondary and tertiary copies of this data are (inappropriately) stored. They'll tell you how that data is being used, where it's being sent, and which employees are using and/or abusing it. The good ones will be able to block the egress or exposure of the data before it leaves the perimeter.

    Do you have a bank account at a national retail bank? Are you insured by a "top 10" firm? If so, it's highly likely your data is already being protected by these systems.

    Most of the risk of exposure is driven by well-meaning insiders who think they are just doing their job, but make a mistake or cut a corner and end up losing or exposing data. DLP software frequently catches the corrupt and/or malicious crowd as well. Most perps are pretty sloppy operators, and DLP software finds their tracks easily.

  85. Not so easy. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    There is always somebody that may be disgruntled enough in spite of being properly compensated.

    Here the old saying that money does not buy happiness is ominously true.

    Trusting human nature is all warm, new agey and fuzzy, but will not save your ass if somebody that felt wronged decides to take advantage of your trust.

    Confidential data is far more important than a relationship of trust with your employees in regards to that data.

    You can trust your employees to do the right thing in most situations, but you can't take such a gamble with data that is sensitive. To be so trusty is a dereliction of duty.

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    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  86. Nonsense. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    We are talking about somebody that violated a policy which stated he would be fired for doing so.

    Such an employee may be immensely more expensive than the meagre expense of replacing him (go on, don't tell me you already forgot about the dude that almost brought down the major French bank a few months ago)....

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  87. No, no, no. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    There are several solutions that use tokens (SecurID, Safeword) or even SMS messages to ensure people use one time passwords.

    All this printing card with passwords nonsense is confusing, difficult to maintain and fails to acknowledge the existence of cheap good technology that makes this much easier.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  88. Unfair dismissal. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Such an action would be most likely unfair dismissal in the UK.

    If that is not the case in the US or other localities, please do receive my pity.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  89. Wrong approach. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    The data should stay in the company's intranet and be accessed remotely via a VPN and using remote desktop software of some kind.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  90. Lock it down. A hypothetical. by HobophobE · · Score: 1

    I'd have thought there would be best practices. Note I've never worked in such an environment but these are some things I'd think would be no-brainers.

    1. No one gets direct access to the database

    All data is segregated by purpose and accessible only via a credential-enforcing interface. Identifying characteristics are suppressed and replaced with keys used only for internal purposes.

    2. No one gets to connect their laptop or PDA to a sensitive system, period.

    This goes back to the people I hear ask, "How do I play game XYZ on my system with SELinux?" You don't. Really. If you want to play games on your system then you don't need to run SELinux on it. If you need SELinux that system should not be used to play games.

    3. No paper.

    The paperless office is essential for data security. No external electronics, no paper, and limited network access. No installing crap. No, no, no.

    If the data is sensitive, it should be protected. If you can make the data non-sensitive enough (via data segregation/scrubbing/separation of duties) for your lawyers and customers and auditors to be comfortable with it being published in 72pt in the NYT Sunday edition then you can take that out (via limited, secure network access) to a non-sensitive area and listen to your mp3 player or yammer on your phone or fristpsot on /. while you work. Otherwise, sensitive means sensitive and you should be paid well enough to forgo such luxuries.

    I'm sure I could think of more rules given time, but seriously it should be pretty straightforward. If the data is sensitive treat it like codes for nukes and don't be loose with it. If it's not really sensitive but due to government or other rules/laws you must treat it as such then you still treat it as nukes. If it really isn't sensitive then stop pretending it is.

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    -HobophobE
    Nothing laughs forever.