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iPhone Tethering App Released, Killed In 2 Hours
tjhayes writes "The iPhone App Store released an application called NetShare that allowed the iPhone to tether a laptop to the internet. It was priced at a $10 one-time fee. After being available for approximately 2 hours, the application has disappeared from the apps store. What exactly are AT&T/Apple trying to accomplish here?" They are trying to prove what is wrong with DRM, and demonstrate why hackers want to jailbreak the iPhone.
it works
I know tethering is against the AT&T rules and regulations... but why was it pulled for all non-usa iphones? We don't have the same agreements with our carriers outside the USA, and yet ... we suffer because AT&T can't stop complaining...
we'll do more than not use it, we will continue to point out how such a retarded policy is wrong, and that's it's costing apple customers.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
The queue is really lagging. The app is back up and still for sale. Come on, Slashdot mods, stay current!
What are you talking about? It's not "theft of service" if it's your own laptop. You'd have to be pretty close to someone's iPhone to "steal" bandwidth, thanks to the relatively short range of bluetooth. And just because a knife can facilitate murder doesn't mean it was created for that purpose.
Why does my post history abruptly stop? I want to laugh at the stupid things I posted as a kid.
No, its not, its ATT protecting its revenue stream b y charging an insane (I believe it is $80 per month for the laptop connect plans), at which point ATT does not care whether or not you use a pc express card or a phone or usb dongle to use your laptop.
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
You don't like their terms, don't use their product.
Exactly. And in order to ensure that as many people as possible know about Apple's restrictions and the consequences of those restrictions before they get locked into a contract, we keep talking about it.
Incidentally, any of the S60 Nokias, many Palms and many Windows Mobile phones have no restrictions on tethering. They're also cheaper than the iPhone. And the Nokias use the same web browser as the iPhone.
Now, what exactly are you trying to say?
'Their' product? No, the phone belongs to the person who paid several hundred dollars for it. That's this concept we have called a 'sale'.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
I was quite shocked, but knowing apple, I shouldn't have been.
I was shocked to learn this about the original iPhone, since it was only since I switched to OS X that I started regularly using a phone for Internet access via Bluetooth. Apple made it really easy to set it up (there's a little Bluetooth wizard that does everything for you), and by not supporting this on the iPhone they have made sure that pretty much any other make of phone integrates better with their OS than their own phone.
My old (cheap) Nokia phone can sync calendars with iCal, sync contacts with Address Book, and be used as a modem, all via Bluetooth. The iPhone needs a cable to do any of these (and can't do the third one even with a cable).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I'm more inlined to believe that this is likely at&t's doing not Apple. at&t charges extra for tethering on other phones and since the iPhone has a special plan for data, they don't want iPhone users going nuts on the 3G network and affecting the percieved speed of the network.
At&t (as well as the other 3 major US Cariers) have been known to intentionally cripple phones so that users can't take full advantage of the features.
Do not read this
Sure, you own the phone, but the app store belongs to apple. Apple is free to restrict whatever applications they want. You are also free to point out that you don't like their policy and try to convince people not to buy it.
My one button Apple mouse disagrees.
Roger that! But when you do more than "not buy/use it" the fanboys (and girls) want to mod you as flamebait.
Apple is mostly image and branding. There is nothing Apple does that is unique. There is nothing in the iPhone that is unique. (You show me an iPhone, I'll show you a PalmOS phone and the major differences are fewer buttons/keys on the iPhone and more graphic intensive.) So what makes Apple better or different? It's how people FEEL about Apple. If you disagree, instead of modding me flaimbait, how about citing some *objective* examples of where I am mistaken?
When people at my office ask me about iPhone, I state where I see it falling short. You can't remove or replace the battery. So when the battery is useless, the phone is useless. That almost always gives people cause to think. But still 1 in 20 people will still say something like "I don't care! It's so cool!" I don't try to stand in their way either. If they can't see beyond the bling-bling, they aren't going to hear what I have to say about it.
Maybe the problem is all mine... I am just not as enthused by shiny stuff as other people are. I want it to work the way I want it to work and to use it the way I want to use it. If I can't, it's nothing short of an annoyance.
What exactly are AT&T/Apple trying to accomplish here?
Quite simple:
1. AT&T (like other mobile operators) would like you to pay extra for the privilege of using your phone as a modem. This has nothing to do with Apple or iPhone: e.g. the same thing applies to my Windows Mobile smartphone on T-Mobile (UK).
2. Apple needs to play nicely with AT&T and its other mobile operators and can't be seen encouraging people to breach the terms & conditions.
3. Presumably, someone at Apple OK'd this software without checking the AT&T T&Cs. Someone else spotted the error and took it down.
Nothing to see, move along.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
No offense, although I'll probably be moderated as a troll for this, but you're just an idiot, plain and simple.
It doesn't take a triple digit IQ to know the phone didn't have SSH and a terminal, so either you're trolling or really are an idiot if you bought the phone knowing that only to turn around and complain about it.
Blackberry also passes all e-mail and everything else through their servers. Again, troll or idiot.
And there was no secrets about Mobile Me.
So which is it? Troll or idiot?
1) Unique -- Uh, how about the user interface? One can be nit-picky about anything not being "unique." For example, there is nothing unique or original between a Ford and a Mercedes vehicle, I mean they both have wheels, seats, and use gas right? (sarcasm in case you miss it).
2) Battery -- Well, your usage is different. I have never ever purchased a second battery for a cell phone in all the years I have owned a cell phone. Your experience obviously is different. Oh, you do realize you can buy a replacement battery from Apple right?
3) Palm OS does all the same things -- Are you kidding me? That OS is CRAP, wait that would give crap a bad name it's so shitty. If people wanted to use something designed in 1995 have fun. You have got to be kidding trying to compare Palm OS to any of the modern cell OS systems.
Oh, and I don't own an iPhone. Your comments just were too ridiculous to ignore.
No one will argue with you that Image is very important to Apple.
No one will argue with you that Image is important to ANY company marketing to consumer.
The point where you'll get nasty responses is when you claim that Apple is Only, or Mostly image. I was a Windows fanboy in HS because of the Image of Apple products (overpriced, underpowered, niche, etc.). When I finally gave them a try is when I realized that the Image I had of Apple was actually being espoused by people who hadn't used a Mac in years, if ever. I made the switch because I don't have to fight with the OS.
You want to argue that the Windows OS's are easier to use, more stable, more intuitive/consistent? Fine, you can argue that point if you don't like looking silly.
You want to argue that PC's are cheaper than Mac's? You've got a more valid point here, Macs usually do come at a ~10% premium. I think the increase in usability and not having to spend that money on virus/spyware prevention makes up for the difference, but I can see the other point of view.
You want to argue that the iPhone does nothing special? Fine, I can concede that point as long as we ignore the whole "usability" issue. I currently have a phone that has most of the features that everyone raves about on the iPhone, but I've never used them. It doesn't even occur to me to use them because I feel like I need a PhD in computer science with a specialization in programing for imbedded devices to figure out how to use the damn features. You don't have that problem? Good for you but the general public shares my frustrations and seem to have been able to figure out the iPhone without so much as having to by an "iPhone for Idiot's" book.
If you insist that everyone with a different set of priorities and judgement calls is being bamboozled by
the bling-bling
, then you're just showing yourself to be myopic and condescending to those around you. Maybe you need to consider that the reason people aren't listening to your advise is that their priorities differ from yours and not that they are slaves to Apples marketing material.
Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
Also, I need utility from my phone;
Perhaps you should have researched the phone before buying it. Hell, you could've read one of the dozens of articles here on slashdot with the words "iPhone" and "lock" in the title.
I didn't buy the damn thing to show it off.
So, you bought an iPhone hoping to use dozens of features that it doesn't support, but don't want it for the one thing it is good at?
Badass Resumes
Okay, I'll bite. Funny thing is, I don't even have an iPhone, but I'm pretty familiar with another of Apple's products. I have a video iPod, and I absolutely love it.
It has little to do with it being an Apple product. Frankly, I'm not a big fan of the company, precisely because it tries to be all glitzy. But just as frankly, my iPod is head and shoulders above any other mp3 player I've ever used. Sure, it's pretty, but it also has a very nice display. I find that navigating using the touch wheel is much easier than the clunky buttons on most other players. Getting music and videos is stupidly simple. Although I'm technically proficient and can rip CDs and DVDs, jump through hoops encoding and transferring stuff, I appreciate the fact that with my iPod, I don't have to. I hate the DRM that Apple imposes on content, but it works well enough for me, and when I need to get past it, hey, I can still rip CDs and DVDs and jump through hoops encoding and transferring stuff.
You say, "I want it to work the way I want it to work and use it the way I want to use it." Well, you've pretty much stumbled onto why there are so many Apple devotees. Sure, there are some fanboys, but for most of them, Apple's products just work. It's that simple. They don't have to rip and encode and transfer and configure and read manuals and learn rocket science.
The iPhone undoubtedly has some areas where it falls short. I've used an iPhone, and I'd love to have one, but the game-breaker for me is that I'd rather shove bamboo shoots under my fingernails than to subscribe to AT&T's service, and although I probably could, I just don't have the motivation to hack it. (Better things to do with my time.) I really don't see the battery as an issue. Honestly, in about 15 years of having various cell phones, I've never once had to replace a battery. I always end up getting a new one before my battery stops holding a charge. Is it a consideration? Sure, I suppose, but stacked up against other things, it's not a major one.
Apple isn't perfect. I don't know of many people who think it is. And yes, they have a reputation for being excessively stylish. But that doesn't change that their products are very, very good. You want people not to get caught up in the glamour and not to overrate their products; I'd ask you to do the same and not underrate them, either.
Apparently, the are many 3G providers outside the US which have no problems with tethering your laptop to your phone. This is what people have a problem with: a few backward providers dictating how the rest of the world can use *their* iPhones.
What PalmOS phone has visual voice mail?
Apple is mostly image and branding. There is nothing Apple does that is unique. It's how people FEEL about Apple. If you disagree, instead of modding me flaimbait, how about citing some *objective* examples of where I am mistaken? Maybe the problem is all mine... I am just not as enthused by shiny stuff as other people are.
I support your point, Zune is equally good than an iPod because they have the same functionallity. *grin*
There are other shortcomings of the iPhone. You could do much better than beating the dead horse of irreplaceable battery, which has been dead long before the first iPhone device hit the shelves. Hint 1: what is the percentage of the mobile phone users which use their phones longer than their batteries live? Hint 2: what is the percentage of those who do, which have a chance to actually buy a new (original) battery when they need it after a couple of years of phone usage? But of course - this is an old Jedi mind trick devised to fool people into thinking: OMG - I really can't replace the battery?? Uh-oh... it's so bad! - even if none of them have ever replaced any phone battery before, and even if in reality the other phones have practically the same "problem": the phones grow old much faster than the batteries these days and even if you want to buy a new battery after three-four years of phone usage , usually you find that the manufacturer does not supply them already for a year or two... Ever thought of it this way? Now - grab an iPhone, use it for a month (even if you really hate Apple) and come back with the list of real shortcomings - there is plenty of those but you won't find them if you keep babbling about the battery rather than taking the device for a spin.
Now, mod me down freely. My karma can't get any worse...
A non-replaceable battery on your phone is a critical issue for those of us who use our cellphones frequently for business reasons. With my current phone, if I find myself on calls for four hours during during the day, and I'm worried about the battery running out of juice later in the afternoon, I can just slap in the spare, charged battery I lug around in my bag. I guess there are external chargers you can carry around and plug your iPhone into if you needed to, but then your phone rings and you're trying to do stuff with your cell plugged in to an external battery pack and whatnot.
A non-replaceable battery is just a poor design choice for a phone. It makes it much less functional for a lot of people.
The real deal killer for me is ATT. Not with a gun to my head. I need my telephone to ring when somebody calls me, not go into voice mail. I do carry an iPod touch, which I love, but if ATT offered a data only plan for people who weren't disabled, I'd grab an iPhone and sign up for that plan right away...
It's not that Apple's products have a feature-list that is notably superior. It's that their ease-of-use is notably superior. It's hard to measure 'ease of use'. You can't really quantify it. It's not like megapixels, gigabytes, or battery life... it doesn't really go down to numbers.
But Apple products tend to have no jagged edges... there are no common use cases where they are frustrating or annoying to use. Any product will have frustrating uncommon use cases, you can't avoid that... the battery is a good example.
Do you think the iPod succeeded just because people like Apple? Bullshit. It succeeded because it was better than the other players, and remains superior, if only by a slim margin, even today. Most of the other mp3 players have jagged edges that make them uncomfortable to use... a button that accidentally pauses the music if you have the player in your pocket... a stupid menu that takes 4 clicks to play music, but 2 to change contrast... a short battery life... too heavy... bad software...
It's not that Apple products are so superior in every way. It's that they have no strong weaknesses other than big price tags. No jagged edges. Removing jagged edges, removing frustrating use cases, is where Apple's design teams excel. It's their killer feature.
I'm not an Apple fanboy... I use Linux and Windows. I'm a gamer. The only Apple product I use is my wife's castoff 10GB iPod that I use as a USB drive. I know Apple products have flaws... nothing is perfect. And their brand image is part of the appeal. But brand appeal can't carry a bad product... their products are good, AND they have brand appeal. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend otherwise.
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
"how about citing some *objective* examples of where I am mistaken?"
I've owned Palm based devices for a while, and I can safely say 'objective' is in the eyes of the beholder. I remember trading in my ancient newton for a Treo...no longer needed to wear cargo pants to use a mobile device (I started off with a MP100..then 120 and finally a 2100 before realizing I wanted something smaller not bigger). The Treo was nice...but unlike the Newtons, I couldn't change batteries. Big deal. I kept a pocket charger in my bag for the few times I've ever needed to plug it in.
Since this time, I've had several smart phones. The iPhone was only because I needed something so that I could transport my music with me without having two devices in my pocket. No other reason...I held off for months picking one up even though I had Apple credit that I've had sitting around for a while (and the fact that I occasionally consult for the company).
Subjectively, it syncs better than any other PMP that I've used. This is a biggie for me.
Subjectively, I wish it had a keyboard, but at the same time kept the same sized screen, but without changing the size of the sucker. Oh wait, this is an either / or. I do wish I could sync up an external keyboard like I could my old Palm (though that was a full sized one...I'd rather have a BT capable thumbie thing). Again, it is subjective.
Batteries? I've only run out of juice once. It was after two days of not charging and using edge quite a bit. I've never carried a change of batteries...I've always found it easier to just charge (I bought two extra cables for $8 and have a car adapter with USB built-in). Besides, an external battery (that can actually charge the device and you can unplug it after it is done) is only like $30 from Belkin (I believe...or one of those companies).
I replaced the battery in my iPod and it was pretty cheap ($25) and actually pretty easy. I looked up the instructions on how to replace the one in the iPhone before buying it, and while a LITTLE more complicated, it can be done at home with the tools supplied in the battery kit.
Objectively, I have options. The lack of a replaceable battery does not make one a fanboy by ignoring this fact.
Beyond that, it is all subjective. Don't discard the subjective though...I'm a former computer science / programmer that went back to school several years ago to go for a therapy based psychology PhD (midlife crisis thing...looking for substance and not just another line of code). The geek side says that all the specs are the same. The human side tells me that this is NOTHING like the rest. Guess what? We should be looking for subjective and not objective (and that's why I'm not going to argue against your subjective arguments). I thought the interface on the old Palms were HORRIBLE. It felt like using the old Win 3.1 interface...but that they had actually thought it was innovative. The iPhone...fluid. Gesturing that was hinted at in older experimental GUIs and then abandoned were refined and made useful (yeah, back in the day, I had used a few geeky interfaces for Linux or Win that when I realize that I could have kept my fingers on the keyboard, it would have been faster than memorizing a dozen movements). But it just worked on the iPhone...and it isn't like they included EVERYTHING...just enough to do what you need.
And subjectively, it is the idea that Apple didn't try to put everything into this device that makes it useful. It is limited...and that is a good thing. This was the problem with my Newton that was infinitely more laptop-like than my palm...it tried to be a portable computer after a while.
The only thing I've concerned myself with lately is that I do engage in some 'extreme' sports...and while it is nice to be able to be up 10 stories and pull out the device to get another angle on the right route to climb, it is too fragile. Been thinking of picking up a second one that is rugged and that I can strap to my ass and not worry about banging it u
AT&T had to ban this to protect the network, the same reason Comcast has to ban BitTorrent. I'm sure all of you understand. It is very important to protect the network from new, predatory applications or we will never have innovation. Just look at how the plain old phone network collapsed and became totally useless after the courts forced the telcos to allow their customers to plug in unapproved phones. Overnight people were plugging in 3, 4, 5 phones, vastly exceeding the phone rental limits. Some were even using newfangled wireless phones that let them consume Precious Network Resources from places the Telcos never planned on, such as the yard or bathroom.
Maybe someome will write an app called "net-sell". and I can go to coffeeshops and rent my iphone connection to all the people in the room.
Why not?
What I use my Internet connection for is none of my Internet provider's fucking business, and if you believe otherwise then you're just a tool.
features that everyone raves about on the iPhone, but I've never used them. It doesn't even occur to me to use them because I feel like I need a PhD in computer science with a specialization in programing for imbedded devices to figure out how to use the damn features.
Hah, thank you. I own a Nokia e65, which is as expensive as an iPhone, but I simply do not feel like using these functions, because they suck with the interface provided...
I "accidentally" bought an iPhone (I had a site I had to format for iPhone so I had to get a phone), and after that I just kept the phone. Even though some features (such as net sharing with a laptop) are missing, I am still happier because YOU CAN USE THE DAMN THING .... unlike the 40 others ......
I also totally agree with your other points about Apple VS not apple, but I made the switch from Linux desktop (as I dropped Windows 10 years ago, even though I had to use it here and there)
Or at least that was my understanding.
So I want O2 (UK) to think very carefully before allowing tethering and opening up the shared resource to every possible application.
Right now I have unlimited data to my iPhone, but that will be no good to me if the network becomes saturated. (And yes, with an unlimited data plan, some users will run BitTorrent over a tethered connection just because they can.)
Apple's Hokey Cokey with the NetShare application? I can't explain that, but you can see where the conflict lies.
Allow the customers to do whatever they want, or protect the current experience for everyone.
We have already seen what happens when Apple wants to pull an app. Remember the Aurora Feint thing? That app had some issues with security and privacy, and it not only disappeared from the store, but from iPhones also.
This app may be going on and off the store, but until it disappears from iPhones and a credit shows up on those accounts, it will be back.
This is likely more to do with servers and/or databases syncing up or some such. I had the same thing happen trying to buy Crash Bandicoot Nitro Kart on the iPhone. It would show it, but say it was unavailable. A couple of days later all was fine.
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So what makes Apple better or different? It's how people FEEL about Apple. If you disagree, instead of modding me flaimbait, how about citing some *objective* examples of where I am mistaken?
You're wrong. I don't know what you expect in terms of "objective" examples, but you're missing the point entirely. People don't like Apple products because of how the fell about Apple, they like Apple because of how they feel about Apple's products. And it's not really the "Oooooo shiney!" factor either.
I've always been a gadget freak. I've bought an inordinate number of computers in my life, some of which I didn't need at all (most of which I've built from parts). I've owned a number of Palms, and have been assigned Windows-based phones and Blackberries for work, and have serviced all of those devices as a helpdesk tech. With each of those devices, I was really excited to get them, and then over time I found myself leaving them at the office because, once the novelty wore off, they weren't really worth the trouble.
Lets start with Palm. I stopped bothering to keep up with their development a few years back when it became clear that there was no development going on. The OS is outdated, flakey, and slow. The web browser stinks, and is the definition of why people don't want to use a "mobile browser". Their e-mail client isn't much worth talking about, and instead of syncing with the email/calendar/contacts of the programs you use, they try to get you to use their crappy Palm Desktop.
Blackberry was a big step forward. It synced with Exchange, but needed some kind of specialty software to accomplish that (desktop redirector or Blackberry server). That was ok, though, because nothing else really provided that functionality at the time. The email client was plain text, but honestly I didn't mind much. Web browser wasn't anything much to speak of. So to sum up, it was the best PIM of the time when it first came out, but don't expect anything other than the PIM functions to be worth anything. Also, your Blackberry could be working and your Exchange server could be working, but there was always some kind of service in between coordinating between the two. If anything in there lost its connection (which it frequently did) then you stopped getting updates.
So when Windows-based phones started syncing directly with Exchange, I was eager to try those out. Sure enough the syncing was much more reliable, but the devices were slow and unreliable. They would crash frequently. I only used those on Verizon, so the upshot there was they were always loaded up with Verizon crap, and their tech support was always pushing us to use their syncing service instead of Exchange's native sync-- which caused us loads of problems. They also had a tendency to just stop working, the solution to which was to reset the device and set it up all over again.
The iPhone came out and I got one. I used to carry around a Windows mobile device, another cell phone (because I hated with Windows mobile device), and an iPod, and the iPhone replaced all 3. It was definitely less feature-rich than Windows (which has been fixed by the new firmware for everything I care about), but everything it did, it did without problems. I set up IMAP e-mail, and it worked without crashing and without fiddling with it. When e-mail came to my account, it came to my phone. There were no intermediate servers to worry about. The web browser was actually useable for normal websites. The PIM stuff synced through the cable to Outlook, and now it syncs over the air. AIM works fine.
The only problem I've had with the iPhone is that occasionally the battery runs out really quickly, but I've had that problem with every cell phone and laptop I've ever owned. Oh, and on the day the 2.0 firmware was launched, I was one of those unfortunate enough to upgrade right away, only to find that I had to reactivate my phone and the activation servers had crashed.
But other than that, it's been really
I don't get it.
Buy $600 phone.
Pay $60-90/month to use it.
And you can't tether.
That's what I'd be the most interested in anyways. WOW on the go would be fun.
Well duh and i'd like a pony too. You are paying for the service you are getting not the one you wish you were getting. Maybe someome will write an app called "net-sell". and I can go to coffeeshops and rent my iphone connection to all the people in the room.
I think the point here is that you are OVER paying for the product you are getting, when tethering is, as far as I and every techie smart phone user I know goes, one of the main points of getting a smart phone. The whole point of spending such a high monthly service plan is the data transfer.
3G speeds don't seem fast enough to tempt users away from using old-fashioned internet when it's available (WoW with more than 120ms lag wouldn't be THAT much fun). I don't really see iPhone renting being popular in coffee shops when up against the common free WiFi.
Isn't this just another example of Apple innovating on a product to improve it's user experience and make it exciting, but then giving in on something that just restricts us the consumer?
iPhone: AT&T => no tethering
iTunes: RIAA => DRM
Moderators, please learn that moderation is not based if the comment subscibes to your world-view but rather if the comment advances the discussion or makes a non-redundant point or rebuttal. The above comment is a good rebuttal and is not flambate. The GP was being childish is his expectations and the parent pointed this out.
you could turn your iPhone into a developer device and never have to worry about them pulling this from the App Store. The question is, how to publish the source without attracting The Steve's attention?
They say the mind is the first thing to
Well, there are lots of things about my iPhone that I like better than my old Treo. There are also a few things I don't like as much to be sure. I wish it had copy/paste, an SSH client, and the ability to tether would not go amiss. These are things I miss, but they are more that made up for or I wouldn't use the thing. (Less the lack of copy/paste) The user interface is way easier to use and I find myself fumbling around looking for stuff a lot less. The built in mail system (especially now that it handles multi-media mail) is a lot more useful, though I'll grant you that the Treo had some decent third party mail apps. I've never found one quite as nice as the iPhone Mail app. The App store is a remarkably convenient way to find applications, though that is part blessing, part curse. Manly though, is the web browser. Blazer, to be as polite as possible, sucked ASS. Opera never worked on my Treo, it loaded but would never run more than a second or two. Safari is so nice that it almost negates the lack of tethering. I use the web on my phone a lot. I used to do so on my Treo some, but on this phone I can always use it to track down a fact, find a picture someone needs to see or just while away the time at the Doctor's office.
Is the iPhone perfect? Definitely not, but it does almost every thing I want, and does it all really well. If a well thought out UI, and apps that do what they are intended to do is "image and style" then I suppose you could accuse Apple of being all image and style.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
It's that their ease-of-use is notably superior. It's hard to measure 'ease of use'. You can't really quantify it. It's not like megapixels, gigabytes, or battery life... it doesn't really go down to numbers.
Well that makes it easy!
So I claim that the Iphone has the worst UI. You can't claim I'm wrong, because as you say, it's hard to measure "ease of use", so when I claim there are much better phones, you can't prove me wrong on this issue.
But seriously, that it's unmeasurable is a myth put out by those who what to claim that there's something special about the Iphone. This argument would never work for any other company's product (imagine it: "Who cares about all the flaws in Windows - it just is better. It's better in ways we can't measure or quantify, it just is" - would that be accepted?)
UI is quantifiable in all sorts of ways, for example, explaining how a particular process is achieved on different phones, or by comparing features that might make a process quicker. E.g., how do I copy text from somewhere to somewhere else?
There are plenty of examples of quantifying user interface on operating systems. E.g., menus at the top of the screen (as in AmigaOS, MacOS) are better that those not at the top (as in Windows), or proportional scrollbars give a better visual representation than non-proportional scrollbars (as in classic MacOS), or up/down arrows next to each other on a scrollbar (as in AmigaOS) are quicker to access than those at opposite ends on the scrollbar (as in Windows). Anyone who claims that UI is inherently something we can't measure is just grasping at straws to claim that their favourite expensive product is better, and they fail anyway, because I can just as easily claim my dirt cheap phone has the better UI - and by your own rules, you can't claim I'm wrong, because UI is unmeasurable.
Do you think the iPod succeeded just because people like Apple? ... Most of the other mp3 players have jagged edges that make them uncomfortable to use... a button that accidentally pauses the music if you have the player in your pocket... a stupid menu that takes 4 clicks to play music, but 2 to change contrast... a short battery life... too heavy... bad software...
The Ipod was a decent product. This topic is about the Iphone. Furthermore, you contradict your own argument. You've provided numerous examples of why the Ipod was better. So much for "it's unmeasurable"! So where are the same reasons for the Iphone?
It's not that Apple products are so superior in every way. It's that they have no strong weaknesses other than big price tags.
[Leaving aside a few basic functionality that even cheap phones have such as copy/paste, Java, MMS, video recording, and it only just finally got 3G.] If you agree that the Iphone is not superior, and it has no major weaknesses either, then that's the point: it's just yet another phone, and there's nothing special about it. Lots of phones fall into this middle ground category
But brand appeal can't carry a bad product... their products are good, AND they have brand appeal. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend otherwise.
I'm not the one with my head in the sand saying "You can't measure UI, it just is better".
Brand appeal is important - this is shown by the very fact that you tried to claim the Iphone is better be saying how the Ipod was better. Your logic is that they're both "Apple", therefore the Iphone must be good too. That's judging not by product, but by brand. Do you think the Iphone would be getting even a fraction of media coverage it gets, if it wasn't produced by Apple? Brand appeal is everything to Apple. Consider how Macs today are nothing to do with older Macs (different hardware, different OS), but no one says "Well, Apple had to ditch the old OS because they finally realised it was so awful), rather, they're all considered to be the same platform.
WoW with more than 120ms lag wouldn't be THAT much fun
:-)
It depends. Between about 200 and 900 ms, the lag is annoying as hell, but once it gets above that, it's kind of entertaining since what will happen is largely unpredictable. Firefights in Alterac Valley when everyone is severely lagged are kind of like slapstick comedy. Players fall down and die for no apparent reason at all.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
The service you purchased on your phone contract says otherwise, and that's the problem.
There are many European countries selling 3G based "broadband Internet", with dedicated devices (not phones, just simple USB HSDPA modems that take a SIM card).
In those countries, the basestations should be more than capable of handling hogs (either by allowing the traffic, or by throttling abusers so they don't mess up everybody else's connections).
As for tethering... That's the main reason I gave away my iPhone 3G (I work for a mobile operator, got one at launch day, and gave it away to the person in my team that pulled the longest straw. Yes, literally.). Every phone I've had for the last 4 years has allowed me unrestricted bluetooth connectivity to the internet, starting with GPRS and now with HSDPA), and it is something I use *a lot*. I don't have to take my phone out of the pocket, I just fire up the laptop, push a button, and I'm done.
Apple products no jagged edges? What the fuck?
Ok, I understand, they are smooth 'n all -- oh, you mean there are no USABILITY issues. Gotchya. And... wrong.
Example: Someone (my wife) using Windows 98. Really. With universal usb storage driver. Buys her sister an ipod and a CD to rip (audio book). The ipod is the little one with no display, 1gb of memory, cheap. Really, its a destructo audio book player. Limited instructions, maybe she missed the part about "itunes" but I don't think it was in the instructions!
Anyway, the CD is ripped onto the computer, and the ipod is plugged in. It shows up as a mass storage device. She copies the rip to the device, and charges. However, the ipod won't stay on! She RETURNS the ipod to the store as defective. The service guy says "Um, you need this application called iTunes" - Of course it is not supplied with the ipod. Too cheap to put a mini-cd in the packaging!
iTunes doesn't work with Windows 98. XP, maybe (I don't know). Fortunately, GtkPod is available for Linux (which we also use).
Let's break it down -
The ipod needs custom software, YET responds as a USB mass storage device - this is good design?
Apple doesn't put a cheap CD into the box with the software - come on, that's just bad - now an internet connection is REQUIRED.
iTunes doesn't work with Windows 98. Ok, I'll grant you this.
The ipod doesn't stay turned on if there is no magic itunes stuff on it. It has a nifty color changing led and all, but that isn't used to display any sort of distinguishing error - you have to KNOW the magic to get it to go.
And you think Apple doesn't have jagged edges... I would imagine that iTunes probably comes with the Mac computer, so it is probably seamless 'n all. But the chutzpah! I should spend $600 so a $50 product works?
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Just an official reply from Nullriver.... We're not quite sure why Apple took down the application yet, we've received no communication from Apple thus far. NetShare did not violate any of the Developer or AppStore agreements. We're hoping we'll get some feedback from Apple tomorrow. Sorry to all the folks that couldn't get it in time. We'll do our best to try to get the application back onto the AppStore if at all possible. At the very least, I would hope Apple will allow it in countries where the provider does permit tethering. We'll keep everyone posted. Thanks!
First of all... the iPhone IS special. What it is doing in this app and in the link I'll provide below for jailbroken phones is not something lots of phones can do, if any others.
Second of all, this app was NOT a tethering app. AS you say, tethering is done by either BlueTooth or USB cable. What this app did is create an access point by sharing the cellular network over wifi. You don't "tether" your laptop to a wireless router, do you? Now that we're clear on that, I guess we have to live with everyone calling it tethering.
iPhone 3G as a wifi access point
The Admin and the Engineer
In both your examples, your evil companies have invested shit-tons of money into creating the economic pool you want to swim in. You are surprised that they want to impose rules to earn profits on their investment?
Without AT&T, you wouldn't have AT&T's phone service, and without AT&T's investment in the iPhone, you probably wouldn't have $199 access to an OS X-based smartphone that costs $700.
Without the RIAA, you wouldn't have artists getting million dollar contract advances to create albums, nor any rock and roll lifestyle to inspire artists to make music. That's a bad thing if all you like is folk hippie music, but most people like commercial lala popular music, hence the name Pop.
I'm not saying that AT&T and the RIAA aren't greedy assholes, I'm only saying that your outrage is rather naive and silly. "Just restricts the consumer"? You do realize that the purpose of companies is to make profits, right? They don't exist to titillate you at affordable prices.
Warning: Google Maps Walking directions are in Beta
I bought my last phone in 2005. I spent $279 on it even with the discount Sprint offered for renewing my contract. It was the best digital camera phone they offered at the time.
As I explored features like text messaging, I realized Samsung had no idea what UI meant. To delete a message, you had to scroll down a list of options to the second page of options before 'delete' was available. They prioritized 'file' and 'reply' higher in the list than delete, which is what you'll want to do with more messages than any other option. Text messages were such an annoyance to deal with, I would tell people my phone doesn't support it and ask them not to send them to me.
It had a calendar and address book, but offered no connectivity with my computer. Completely standalone repository.
If I wanted to email the photos off the camera to someone, I had to upgrade my plan to include wireless internet, which was another $20 a month.
The point of all these criticisms is that I had already run through the gauntlet of buying a premium phone to find that its usability was horrible. As a consumer, I never considered dropping that kind of cash on a Nokia or other phone promising fancy features after my disappointment with that Samsung phone. When I checked out the iPhone at the Apple Store, I immediately recognized that they 'got' what was missing on my Samsung-- usability. I had no qualms switching carriers and buying the iPhone. The service plan ends up costing me what it would have with Sprint if I would have gotten the internet option. The phone cost me essentially the same as my 2005 phone did, and it works a million times better.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Violence is the tool of the idiot who didn't take his/her time to read the contract, or ask a rep/the internet if that's too much work.
Don't forget that the people also spend money, and in the economic pool, outweigh the amount invested by those big companies. And as such, as the masses voice their naive and silly opinions, they have the right to do it. At the end of the day, these large companies don't have anything without the end users who play the biggest role in the economic marketplace.
-Alex. http://bit.ly/1iVPtfA
Government force should be met with force if necessary. But contracts entered into voluntarily are the basis of civilization. You're advocating a return to the day when contracts couldn't be enforced, which would destroy the availability of the very services you hope to steal. Your position is not only irrational and immoral, but short-sighted.
actually if you provide the 'last mile' in the USA, YOU are responsible for CALEA. Look it up, it's a damn scary law. If the first hop to the Internet is through you, it falls on your shoulders. This includes neighborhood wifi projects, the local coffee shop that offers free wifi, etc. Forget if it's infeasible and expensive, forget that some wifi gear is impossible to do what they ask (Meraki, I'm looking at you), it's the law and you're responsibility. Not the ISP you're connecting to, but YOU. What's this mean?
Big Brother exists and is able to tap everyone's intenet at the snap of a finger.
I love my N95. Not only does it do everything the iPhone does (except have a touchscreen, which I don't want), tethering is a cinch via bluetooth or USB. I can install any application I want on it. Applications can actually run in the background. And it looks like Symbian might actually become an open-source OS.
Plus, it had 3G support from the start. And wifi. And VOIP. And a built-in GPS receiver. etc. etc.
Wow. I sound like an ad. I'm really just a satisfied customer.
No cell phone provider will allow you to tether your phone to a laptop without paying an extra fee. If the practice becomes mainstream, expect more bandwidth limitations or filtering.
We've gone from one King George to another. Escaping laws like this is the reason this country was founded!
Not at all, just the day where twenty-page "contracts" didn't come sealed in a box that you buy. If anyone actually approached consumers with a contract long enough to be read in the venue they marketed their product (ie, two-paragraph contract for something meant to be purchased in a retail-ish setting like a cell-phone.) people wouldn't consider them outrageous.
But no, people have the idea that anything they write down on paper is going to be binding just because they hand it to you, with no consideration for letting you read it in its entirety, or before the sale.
Sorry, but that's not behavior I respect. I could "not respect" it by quietly going home and being upset, or I could usefully not respect it by treating it as I would treat a phone I bought from someone I did respect. I follow common-sense guidelines, or rules for the benefit of everyone, but not rules for their sole benefit.
For instance, ISP rules about no servers. Yeah, uh huh. What's a server? Any protocol that happens to answer a port, regardless of the majority of the dataflow. And they forbid servers, not bandwidth hogging. So should I honestly follow along and not run SSH despite it not really being the problem and max-out my downloads on legit Linux ISOs, or should I try to play by the spirit of cooperation and not do anything (regardless of the rules) that would destroy the service for my neighbors such as using all the bandwidth?
If I lived by the rules of "no servers" anything else would be fine. Instead if I examine the situation and deal fairly with those involved, no method of harm is "okay" just because it wasn't mentioned.
So, in other words, you're a schmuck if you follow an abusive contract. Many people who enter offer contracts do so abusively and there's no reason to pander to that and not get a phone, or such. Just follow the reasonable rules, discard the rest. Until courts catch up with the idea that there are some things you can't contract for (not illegal, just unrelated to the apparent deal - misleading) people just need to act this way.
It was the software companies all individually including the EULAs in the box than convinced people shrink-wrap licenses are binding. Now we just need everyone individually ignoring provisions of contracts they didn't get a chance to negotiate to set the assumption that such contracts aren't binding.
The world would be a far better place if people acted based on the harm their actions would cause, NOT based on the rules that would be violated.
I'm aware that there's a twenty page contract, but I'm also aware as a programmer that few people, including programmers, could take a twenty page document full of conditions and exceptions and properly parse it, being sure of not making any mistakes and of catching all restrictions. Especially standing in a store, without a day or two to make notes.
It simply is not reasonable to present people with a contract like that for things that don't warrant getting a lawyer. Thinking these contracts should be binding is like expecting you to hire a lawyer and do battle with Sony corp over your defective Walkman, as opposed to going to small-claims court where the rules are different and engaging them in a more level way.
We might as well practice law in Latin for all the good it does to hand a densely worded and intentionally confusing document, especially at a time that contracts usually aren't required - what looks to be a simple purchase at retail.
So no, even if I believed that these contracts would stand up to the type of challenge I would wage if I had the time/money, I still would not follow them because they are abusive.
As for Apple's ability to control what I do with my data, I do not believe they have the right to tell me I cannot tunnel games over an SSH connection to my phone, or web pages, or a packet whose ultimate destination might be someone else. They provide bandwidth, I use it. They can set limits on amounts, but not on the purpose of the data transmission. (Which would be like saying I can only use the iPhone for certain calls.)
Obviously nobody listens to a rule that says you can't take calls for your friends on your phone - they simply pay the airtime and use the device. Similarly, nobody would accept a rule saying you can call only affiliated pizza places. A limit on who you can forward data to is just a ridiculous.
There is a fine line between voluntarily entering into a contract with a 3rd party on equal negotiation footing and agreeing to ridiculous contractual options because everyone who offers this service requires it. For example, air travel is theoretically optional, but a basic necessity of modern living. You can then either opt out of modern living, or you can wear the contractually-obliged shock collar in order to fly.
Certain bits of modern contracts are quite frankly immortal, and should not be enforced by the government. As a further example, non-competes can be a way of ensuring that your employees don't simply run to another company with your hard-earned knowledge. But they're also a way of ensuring that certain employees can never work in their field again, and cannot realistically get another job afterwards. This can be held over the employee to prevent them from leaving due to underpay, abuse, or failure to live up to bonus or other compensatory promises. And they're always entered into while the employee is hungry.
The ______ Agenda
Fine, show me something else that's as useful as a jailbreak'd iPhone.
HTC Touch Diamond? Samsung i900? Sony X1?
I'm in the middle of trying to choose my next phone. I was going to get an iphone, but no DUN, HID nor A2DP put that one to bed real fast. Diamond or Raphael (with the keyboard) are my current picks. i900 was nice but 240x400, while nicer than the iphone's 320x240, is still kind of shite on a brand new phone. Sony looks *really* nice but again, proprietary connectors, pre-reviews foretelling of a shitty keyboard and delays delays delays... probably not.
The Diamond is here today though, and at 640x480 is head and shoulders above the iphone for resolution. It's also an Android target, should that matter to you (it does to me).
My iPhone is the fourth smartphone I've had. I spent enough time with its predecessors to know all the tricks - and there were plenty of those to learn - to use most of their features. Address book, calendar, camera, games, etc. - at one point I even synced the phone with my laptop regularly.
The trouble was doing all this stuff felt about as good as having a root canal. Sure, there was a keyboard shortcut feature that made a few things easier. But over time almost everything fell into disuse because it was just too painful to operate.
The iPhone has changed my habits completely. Everything that was hard to do is now easy. The only thing I didn't like was having to use a cable to sync it. (But unlike its predecessors the sync always worked flawlessly.) Even that is now a nonissue with MobileMe.
I thought maybe it was just me being too picky. But then...
My wife, whose interest in matters technical is fairly limited, has also had a smartphone for quite a while. (Actually a much nicer one than mine.) But after browsing the manual she never did anything with it - she said it was too much trouble.
Last week she got an iPhone. She hasn't had a moment's difficulty operating it. And she's using the phone's capabilities for the first time. For example, her addressbook is already full of entries, entries she typed into Address Book on her computer and synced to her phone with no help from anyone.
Usability really does matter. And while the iPhone is a long way from perfect, it represents a substantial advance.