Interview With an EVE Pirate

Within any game, especially massive games, there is usually a well established culture. This of course ultimately leads to some sort of counterculture (usually a la griefer). CCP's EVE has been able to give life to a counterculture that isn't completely destructive and makes for a very rich gameplay experience. Massively recently had a chance to sit down with one of EVE's leading criminals to discuss life as an outlaw. "One notable criminal organization devoted to piracy is Veto Corp, headed by their CEO Ethan Verone, who is without a doubt one of New Eden's more notorious pirates. Under his guidance, Veto Corp has been linked to numerous incidents of ransoming, hijacking, and illegal arms sales, among their many other crimes. Their modus operandi of shunning territorial control in favor of remaining fast and free ensures that Veto can conduct 'business' and hit targets anytime, and practically anywhere."

Comments

so much for notorius

[poetmatt]

I don't speak for all of Eve players, but I've certainly never heard of them.

Re:so much for notorius

[elrous0]

In his mind, he's a legend. In real life, a fry cook at Denny's.

Re:so much for notorius

[Chris Burke]

In his mind, he's a legend. In real life, a fry cook at Denny's.

That's just his secret identity!

Re:so much for notorius

[indy_Muad'Dib]

you spelt it wrong, its BoD.

Band of Developers.

they run into problems they have their pet admins fix it for them.

Yar!

[Kingrames]

Just doin his part to keep EVE Online free of Global Warming.

Re:Yar!

[The Iso]

The pirate/temperature graph has been part of FSM scriptures since the beginning.

ugh god

[deathtopaulw]

this is why I love eve
the developers don't try to shelter their users
they openly designed it so there could be things like this.

eve is a real mmo the way it should be done

Re:ugh god

[darkwing_bmf]

No problem. I tried Eve. I found that the only way to beat the game, if griefing is not your style, is to not play. The game is made for griefers and, at it's core, is nothing more than an unbalanced pvp game. The few times one of the corps I joined pvped, it was mind numbingly boring (space is big). And when I was solo trying to mine, well, there was no point really. The missions get old. Honestly, if all the carebears would use some common sense and stay away, the pirates would have nothing left to do and the game would die. Pirates never fight on even terms (they always hide when out gunned), which means if there were only pirates, they'd either be waiting out other pirates that were hiding (boring) or they'd be hiding themselves from bigger pirates (also boring).

Re:ugh god

[azuredrake]

It's not newbie friendly at all, in that it takes literally years of paying CCP your monthly fee in order to reach the point where you can fly the big ships that bring in the massive profits.

EveMon will let you see how long it would take you and how much ISK (Eve money) it would cost you. Basically, I quit when I realized I'd get more enjoyment running a mining bot for two years while I was at work than I would if I were actually playing.

Re:ugh god

[Rakshasa Taisab]

I don't grief yet I find it enjoyable to play. (non-carebear industrialist) Think of the griefers as NPC's, as if AI had advanced (or receded) 100 years. They are your opponents in the game.

If you keep thinking of the other players as 'intruding on _YOUR_ game', you'll never understand EVE. The players are the game, not the brainless rats.

Re:ugh god

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no "beating" Eve. It's an expansive MMO with an ongoing storyline. It's massive to the point that no single person - regardless of how many accounts they own and how much free time they have - can fully explore all parts of the game from all points of view.

Yes, the game starts out slow. And it has to - the interface is so complex, powerful, and loaded with features that you'd be lost beyond hope if it started out fast-paced. The gameplay starts out slow for the first few days (unless you immediately join a 0.0 corp) so you can learn how to use enough of what's available to you to actually accomplish something.

Carebears can do just fine in Eve. In fact, you can do just fine in a big corp in a big alliance in Eve living in 0.0. As long as there are plenty of others around you to fullfill other roles (security, intel, defense, etc), you can sit and mine all day every day if you want. Or you can salvage ship components. Or you can trade on the market. There's a ton of money to be made for anyone who moves ships and equipment to 0.0 space. Alternatively, you can avoid corps altogether and run around high-sec all day every day. As long as you're in a 0.5+ system, the chances of getting ganked are about 10,000 to 1. Having played for years, I've never once been suicide-ganked in high-sec empire space. And honestly? I've never heard of anyone I know getting ganked in high-sec empire space.

And of course pirates don't fight on even terms. What kind of idiot would? Do you get extra points for winning an evenly-matched fight? No, you get a damaged ship and/or damaged equipment. (ie. you get a repair bill). It's a brutally open universe. I can get 20 of my best pals together with battleships and sit on low sec gates all day blasting the Hell out of people in the tiniest of ships. No one forces them to go through there. The game provides ample information for finding out about gate camps before anything is lost. So why do people decide to blow through without paying attention? Laziness, ignorance, or some other personal problem. Want safety in low-sec? Have someone scout for you. Want to safely transport expensive good across large, dangerous areas? Contract out the job.

Eve is a game where you can go for years without dying if you're smart and pay attention (and are highly averse to risk). However, one of the beautiful things about Eve is that no matter how much you die, no matter how much you lose, you can always come right back. Ships and equipment are disposable in Eve. Once you get used to the fact that you ARE going to lose everything at some point (unless, again, you play the 'safe' game), it becomes a whole lot easier to accept loss.

There have been times when I've been trapped in a hostile system with no chance for escape. Did I cry in a teacup because of that? No, I joked on the local channel (which is viewable to all in the same system) with the guys trying to kill me. I did what I could to throw off their scans, I ran for the gate when I had the best possible chance, and then I got popped. Did I run around screaming and crying and calling people names? No, I updated my clone and went about my business.

Eve is not a game that will coddle you. It is not a game for people who can't handle losing. It's definitely not a game for people who are terrified at the thought of not being safe by the design of the game. Eve is wide, wide open, and has just enough safety built in to make for a good story and a reasonable chance to get yourself started.

Re:ugh god

[shannara256]

Basically, I quit when I realized I'd get more enjoyment running a mining bot for two years while I was at work than I would if I were actually playing.

In that case, have I got a game for you: http://www.progressquest.com/

Re:ugh god

[kv9]

And this is why Eve will forever remain a niche MMO.

this is why I also like EVE. the developers dont compromise and try to cater to the needs of constant whiners. they offer you a lot of possibilities but the learning curve (and universe) is ruthless. this way the community is pretty mature and dedicated.

Fine and dandy with me if it helps keeps the assholes off WoW and Guild Wars.

have fun playing with your dolls. we will have fun playing with our fucking SPACESHIPS. in space!

Re:ugh god

[Sobrique]

EVE is all about the players. The market is player opposition and competition. Asteroid belts get mined out by other miners. Lab space and factory time is a contended resource. Missions and NPCs exist, and they're... ok, and getting better, but basically are just a side event - another resource to be exploited, as part of the multi-player RTS that is EVE.

I've been playing for ... 3, 4 years now? I forget. But it's a while, and obviously I'm therefore biased. But I'm forever saddened by the number of people who play EVE, spend 6 weeks grinding missions, and then declaring it 'meh boring' and leave again. Yes, there's parts of EVE that are boring. But there's a whole lot of other stuff to do - anything you can think of, you can go and do. That's part of the problem with it - you don't ever get told what to do, beyond those basic missions, you just have to decide to go do it. EVE is about making your own fun, which doesn't suit everyone - if what you want to do is get told by an NPC to go kill 50 rats, frankly WOW does it better. If you want an open ended game, that's a single universe, and you can do whatever you want, provided you have the firepower to back up your will, then that's EVE. You're free to do whatever. You're free to lead, you're free to follow, and you're free to fail. Player vs. Player means you're climbing the ladder, and sometimes you're stepping on the shoulders of others to get a boost. Some will do so willingly, some will ... object.

It's not a game for everyone. Not everyone likes strategy games, not everyone likes winning at a cost of someone else losing. Not everyone like a game that requires you to think, plan and organise extensively - large scale fleet deployments in EVE can take significant amounts of effort. Or rather, significant amounts of effort if you want to win. It can also be necessary to abort an operation, having 'wasted' an evening of gaming, because fighting today you'll lose, because they're ready for you. Some will charge anyway, lose ships, and maybe have fun doing so. Others will not, and will go home, or do something else. This can be very frustrating, and does have an impact on morale - and morale is also important in EVE. It's a managable resource like anything else.

As said, I've played for ages, and still love it. I know others won't - some just won't like it, and others will come to the game thinking the 'wrong way' to get ahead. But I still get the shiver down my spine, and pumping adrenaline when engaging in a serious fight, and there's remarkably few games that still do that for me.

Unique...

[Last_Available_Usern]

Eve is very unique in that there is only one universe. In Warcraft, if you develop a bad name, you can change servers, even change your name. If Eve, you have to make the best (or worst) of whatever lifestyle you choose to follow. As a Lawful Good resident, Eve quickly became a little terrifying since the only way I could expand my experience of the game was to move into less-friendly territory, something I was slightly reluctant to do with a Navy Raven with the best equipment. I suppose I (and others like me) could hop into a clone and take a cheap ship anywhere we wanted and experience that universe, but it just seemed too much like starting over. As more and more people grow into the position I was, we'll probably see an ever growing ratio of pirates to lawful citizens. At that point it will be very interesting to see what direction the game takes. It will probably be a Mad Max world at that point.

Re:Unique...

[im_thatoneguy]

Or you find yourself alone in a scary place and you team up. You start a militia and you maintain peace about yourself at the point of a well fueled missile barge.

If it's dangerous to wander out into the dangerous bits... form your own gang to survive. Soon your gang becomes a colony and then a fleet and then a nation... and suddently the dangerous bits are just home.

Death system

[Drakin020]

I think a lot of this has to do with the price of death.

When you die, you loose your ship and that can hurt a lot. This causes players to think more before they act. It offeres a bit of suspense when one gets into a battle. No other game has this, and if the death system was not the way it was then EVE would crumble.

If you die and get your ship back for free, what's the point?

Re:Death system

[Drakin020]

That's why I can't stand people who call for WoW like death systems....Hurray...you loose durability. Big deal right?

It brings no strategy or suspense to battles.

He's not a pirate!

[BertieBaggio]

He's infringing copyri... oh, I see.

Very well, carry on.

Life as outlaw...

[r2rknot]

Buy cheap ship, gather in groups.

Wait/look for ship you can take down fast to wander by.

Destroy ship, maybe pod the pilot.

Repeat.

Encounter force larger/better then your own.

Return to Station, go afk and watch a movie while they spend hours 'camping' you. You have a good time, and make people spend tedious hours watching your avatar in station.

Obligatory

[Caboosian]

http://www.eve-pirate.com/uploads/LearningCurve.jpg

Is it too late to start?

[dave562]

Every time Eve comes up in discussion I think about checking it out. I get the sense that it is really geared toward people who have lots of time to play it and it isn't very friendly toward casual players. What do you guys think? Is there any point in playing it if I only have 5-10 hours a week to devote to it?

Re:This is a tad over the top...

[TheGeniusIsOut]

CONCORD is the npc police force of EVE, and each empire has their own Navy, but they only patrol in 0.5 or higher (Empire) space. All pilots have a security status ranging from 10.0 to -10.0, which increases for destroying pirate npcs, and decreases from destroying player ships, and decreases even more if you "pod" them. If your security status is below -5.0, you are kill on sight by all police forces in Empire space. And CONCORD has near limitless resources with a fast response time. Then there is the addition of bounties that can be placed on pilots which, for some of the more notorious pirates, reach into the tens, or even hundreds, of billions of ISK, adding incentive for player bounty hunters to track them down and kill them.

Re:This is a tad over the top...

[Charcharodon]

PvP is full-on only in several situations.

Your corporation is at war with another corporation. You may then blast each other to bits any time any place.

You join a Faction (one of the 4 races). Then you may kill any member of an opposing faction any time any place. Not all factions hate each other.

Space is divied up in 0.0 to 1.0.

0.5-1.0 is patrolled by NPC's who will come and murder you if you attack another player. This takes time though. Suicide ganking is using throw away ships/pilots to kill a fat target before the authorities can kill you. Then you use a second alt comes in a picks up the loot from your targets wreckage.

0.1-0.4 Gate and station guns will attack you if you attack another player, but NPC ships will not respond to aggression, so pretty much its full-on anywhere not near a gate or station, but some ships are tough enough that can tank those guns so those areas are not safe either.

0.0 space. There is no law but what you make. Death comes swiftly here with big pointy teeth. This is the region where the big ships and big corps roam. Anyone may attack anyone else at anytime.

Lastly when you attack enough players your personal sec status drops. It goes down some when you attack another player, it goes down more if you blow up his ship, and it goes down alot if you murder him (blow up his escape pod). Once it's below -.5 you can be attacked by anyone, anywhere, anytime and the hi-sec space NPC's will be gunning for you as well..

There are other ways to be able to legally attack or kill other players. Stealing give you a 15 minute window to blow up the theif's ship. Murdering another player give that player 30 days to hunt your ass down and kill you.

Essentially no place is 100% safe, though most places are not 100% lethal either. There are ways of mitigating the risk, but even so the risk is always there.

This is what keeps Eve interesting.

Pirates fight whenever they can

[Wee]

Pirates never fight on even terms (they always hide when out gunned)

Not at all true. We get in all kinds of fights that are even, lopsided, traps, whatever. You get a couple fleets slugging it out, and them you get stomped. No problem, you know now you can bait their big stuff out, so you plan ahead and then get your payback (and not necessarily with a larger fleet; more often than not, good planning and little quick thinking is more important than sheer numbers.

Another example would be faction warfare PvP. There's gangs of all sizes flying around. You have 12, they have 21? Well, what sizes are we talking about? Hmmm, we have two more cruisers than them, yeah, might work, if we can take that ship first, then that one, then either of those two. Good tactics and a good fleet commander making good decisions easily doubles the size of your fleet.

I think you were fell victim to one too many can flips and finally got pissed enough about all that veld you were losing that you quit -- without a full picture of what the entire game has to offer. You use the phrase "mind numbingly boring". What is mining if not that? Where's the excitement in watching a mining laser fire off again and again and again...

-B