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The Effects of Exporting Used PCs To Africa
retroworks writes "According to this UK MailOnline story, computers donated to Africa are causing quite a few problems. The BBC does a similar story on the junk computers from rich countries found on the ground in Africa. But all of the footage is of the junk PCs; there is no film of any repaired or good computers. There have been a dozen stories now about the bad apples. It seems like there have to be good ones, too, to cover the costs of shipping. Some of the ones in the Mail story actually look decent. Is there more balanced coverage of used computer exports, many of which provide affordable technology to poor people? Organizations like Greenpeace and Basel Action Network are promoting electronics recyclers with zero-export policies. One organization, the World Reuse Repair and Recycling Association, is promoting a 'Fair Trade Coffee' approach to moderate the number of bad computers exported, and has a video showing both sides of the story. A ban on exports leaves Africa with a choice of spending a year's income on a new PC, buying mixed loads of computers from undercapitalized recyclers, or remaining without this level of technology. And our choice seems to be to donate a decent computer mixed with other people's junk, or to grind it up in a perverse tribute to Vance Packard, as 'obsolescence in hindsight.'"
The problem is, all the good charity work doesn't cancel out the toxic fallout from the scrapped hardware. Besides, the junk the richer countries send there is hardly a charitable donation, it's a dumping ground.
We used "development aid" for ages to get rid of our surplus and other crap we'd have had to dispose of for a lot of money, now we do the same with electronics. Where's this news?
I remember someone doing humanitary work there, giving a speech and essentially saying "Please help us. By not helping us". When we dump free food on a third world country, we ruin their farmers because they can't compete with free food. When we dump free clothing on them, we ruin the few textile mills they have. Essentially, what we do with development aid is to push them more and more into dependency because we ruin whatever industry for the local market might start to grow. Instead we force them to build industries for export, so they can somehow pay back the "development help" we "grant" them.
Want to help? Then don't. Don't send your crap down there. Start trading with them. But not with some international corporation that squeezes the country and the people dry. Trade with companies from there.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's really sick how the "rich" countries think they're helping when they use their own country's way of life as a template to "improve" a third-world country. If you live in a country like the US (or Canada, where I am), take a serious look around and try to realize that your country's ways are totally FUCKED UP AND SHOULD NEVER BE DUPLICATED ELSEWHERE!!!
I know, let's fatten up the world's entire population on McDonald's, chips, chocolate, and all the other junk food we live off. Let's advertise Coke and Pepsi to the masses and rot everybody's bodies all to hell. Let's send them magazines that promote beauty as the most important facet of any human being. Let's teach them that the only thing that really matters is money and power, and that one should do anything possible to surround themselves with such things.
So please, leave the rest of the world alone. Starvation and disease may be one hell of a way to live, but think of what you're introducing them to by pushing your way of life onto these people. Truly sickening, if you ask me.
I mean second hand computers that actually work. But many times, the computers that are "dumped" in Africa do not work. They are what the folks in the west call junk!
You then find those especially from former Compaq, now HP, that require Compaq specific software in order to work optimally. When software cannot be found especially for the display, poor Africans settle for mediocre resolutions.
I know because I have used several of them at different occasions.
I can say that these computers, with the magic of solar energy, can transform lives. I know a family in a very remote area that uses one of these as a TV, getting free-to-air satellite feeds and earning an income from internet services on the side...all powered by solar energy and the computer.
More computers in Africa means more embattled princes and presidents will have representatives emailing me asking for me to send them money to free up their vast fortunes that they will share with me.
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
I piss off bigots.
There are a number of isses with this. One of the first is that most exports are pure junk. They typically burn a LOT of energy. The best thing would be to encourage the new low energy computers. But another issue is that there are a LOT of resources in our electronics. The best thing is for western countries to create a "junk pile" of these to hold them and work on developing the recycling tech. Keep in mind that you paid for it. Why send the gold, copper, silver, etc elsewhere (typically china).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I worked for the non-profit World Computer Exchange (http://worldcomputerexchange.org) and their entire effort is to provide working hardware (not software) to developing nations. They have been successful, a fact which I would attribute to their focusing on education and children's programs. But they do not simply dump machines on nations and then forget them, they also provide support and information on how to deal with e-waste in the developing nation. And though they aren't perfect (who is...?) I feel their efforts are worth noticing.
The real problem in Africa is that governments don't respect the sanctity of the individual (because they're mostly cruel dictatorships) and thus don't enforce private property rights.
Its = possessive. It's = "it is"
At least I know of the Linux4Africa project from a very positive news report on a fairly popular computer show on TV here in Germany. The project has already shipped several containers of fully functional donated computers to schools and institutions in Africa. http://www.linux4afrika.de/ I can't help with any international footage. Those who do speak German can check out the rather old video online: http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/content/Linux_fuer_Afrika/219376 Or anyone dare to run this site through an online translator: http://www.3sat.de/neues/sendungen/magazin/112048/index.html I think one of the main reasons why there is such a ruckus about sending free computers to Africa is that the major nations are afraid of even more dirt cheap labor. Right now China and India are sucking huge amounts of resources into their boom and we can hardly keep up with our tiny countries. If someone started that Genesis device of economy in Africa with a kick of free technology this global system would surely collapse. At least what we know of it's power distribution right now.
They're called the 'Hate Mail' for a reason you know. They're techo-phobes. They peddle hate. It's a wonder the story never mentioned little babies dying from drinking contaminated by the drinkscupholders on the pc.
You know what's more pathetic than a first post troll? A first post troll who doesn't even get the first post.
Stop this practice.
The cost involved in gathering up and getting the computers there could be better spent elsewhere.
The mining value in used computers for materials is greater per pound than is found in mining for the original material used to build such computers.
Perhaps there is an industry to be had in extracting these values from junk. I'm sure there are such companies existing in the US.
But I suspect it is just easier for teh lazy minded to just complain about a handout then it is to make use of what you have.
And how many good computers are discarded from teh handout due to a lack of knowledge about the technology?
Maybe they should try Ubuntu or Knoppix or some such OS that would help them get more up and running?
Junked toxic waste? Right. Bad.
But what about an analogy from amateur radio? Used to be if an "Elmer" (mentor), gave you his 20-year old transmitter, you were grateful. I think it's been decades since the American Radio Reley League warned about that. If it isn't half-new, nobody wants it now, will use it, or will benefit from the learning experience.
I've looked at some of the charity sites and it seems a 1 ghz PIII is the least most want. I upgraded a K6-III 400 mhz machine I have sitting around (admittedly with 1/2 a gig of ram) from Xubuntu GG to HH this weekend. Booting is slow. Won't deny it. Program loading is slow. Won't deny it. But you are talking about an up-to-date OS that has the programs for everything most people would want and actual program execution speed is usable. The only thing it won't do is play videos decently with a X2 16 meg AGP card. Actually, it'll play a YouTube video without skipping or stuttering. It'll just play it at 1 fps. To me, someone with no computer at all in Chad, should be happy to have one that good.
... and still no smart alec comments the bad Apples?
I watched a news report about the exporting / dumping of PC's in Africa. I was amazed that in an effort to extract the copper from such cables as mains cables, they just set fire to the cables in some fuel. Surely it's cheaper and far less toxic to get a pair of cutters or knife and pull the copper wire out of it's sheath (easy) then pay for fuel to burn the cables?
Thankfully with Linux, I've not needed to get rid of my older PC's to a dump, have passed my stuff to others that don't need latest equipment just to surf or do email. You could say Linux promotes environmental responsibility.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
And my email box is filled with the proof!
Watched the YouTube link in the summary, for those of you who are too lazy or don't want to click video links:
Doesn't exactly sound like 'dumping crap'. But the 'no recycling system in place' caught my attention. If you think of it, is it weird? No, perhaps in really poor countries, the IT industry is a relatively new and immature business. Compare that when computers where a new thing for people in western countries. You'd want one (like we still do today). The purchase price of a new one would be prohibitive. So for many folks, their first computer would be a 2nd hand one. When you'd get a better one, you'd give/sell the old one to a friend or family member. And when the time came that it was finally dead, what would you do? Right: no plan for that, no recycling system in place. I can imagine that a lot of broken computers from the PC XT era have found their way into landfills, before western countries came to the conclusion that's not wise, and an unsustainable way to get rid of e-waste (and thus, before regulations were put in place).
So my point: perhaps a lot of these African nations simply haven't gotten to that point yet. Besides, a lot of these issues will differ from case to case. Some organizations could be doing really well, even from an environmental perspective. Or shady businesses may indeed just be in it for the money, dumping crap, fully aware they're screwing their African partners long-term. Let's try to separate the bad from the good, shall we?
I'm actually serious. I don't believe in any kind of aid that is made of physical material. If you want to help people, you send books, you send teachers. You don't send rice and garbage.
A few reasons for this:
1) When you grow food and eat it, you poop those nutrients right back into your own ground. You send that to another country, and you are impoverishing your own.
2) Sending broken computers to vicious, fell people results in exactly this kind of thing. We want to believe that everyone has a kind of collective mentality, but most people on this earth are free-market all the way. And a totally free market is a murderous hellhole with a few fabulously wealthy people and the masses in abject poverty. That's a free market. Democratic capitalism is great because it utilizes that "free market" drive (aka greed) to effect positive social change. But it requires constraints to make it move in that direction. Once people see how well a social mindset plus greed works to improve the lives of all (and create a massive middle class, which is key to a functioning society), then they nurture that. They feel a part of something. They neither need nor want to smash people's heads in for a computer monitor full of poison. Most African countries haven't figured this out, and that's their problem--both as in "the problem they have" and "not our problem." We can't fix it, but it also seems we don't recognize that.
Why are the countries that are at the top of the heap at the top of the heap? Simple. We are better. I am absolutely serious. The cultures of Europe and Asia understand the power of a group mentality. They are on different points on that continuum, and that's fine. But we all have it.
Africa is what you get when you don't have that. Everyone is working randomly because they don't care about each other because they don't see that they are the same and that cooperation is the only way to success.
They think that other countries have become rich and comfortable because of luck. But we built this from the ground up--especially for those of us whose ancestors came from the dump known as the British Isles. Our ancestors were just like this until the Romans brought literacy and we saw the awesome power of working together outside of small collectives (Roman Empire).
The Brits got it. The African countries haven't.
This isn't to say they all don't get it, but the problem is that you need a substantial majority of people buying in before it works.
3) Last, handouts are not good for the human psyche. They keep you believing that you are not capable of doing something yourself. I firmly believe that every human being is as capable as any other (at something!), and it's simply a matter of finding that and having that be nurtured by one's surroundings. This is the problem with welfare as well. You walk a very narrow line between making sure you don't have people dying on the streets and cultivating a lawless and irresponsible culture that is not tied to personal achievement and responsibility. Give a man a computer monitor, and he'll smash it open on his neighbors head to get at the copper inside. Teach him to build one, and... Okay it doesn't work, but you see where I'm going.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Africa is a fucking mess. But no matter what the hippie-type liberals say, it's not because we like coffee and chocolate. It's 100% the fault of the local societies (or lack thereof). It's the fault of governments not working for the people, which is really just a function of the people not working for the people. And we can't help that.
I don't buy into any of this Fair Trade / don't buy diamonds / hippie bullshit. If other people can't run their countries right; if they can't even get organized enough to overthrow their dictators and/or plantation owners (or, rather, when they do, they then just devolve into infighting and become the same thing), then I can't do anything about
Stop the planned obsolescence. I heard a story about Germany. They created a law where by the manufacturers were forced to buy back product packaging, e.g. plastic bubbles and paperboard casing for products, from the consumer. In a very short period of time, the amount of material used for packaging dropped by 2/3.
Let's not treat the symptom, treat the disease. What if MS or the manufacturers were forced to buy back the computers they intentionally made obsolete? Maybe it would become easier to recycle them or they would have longer life spans.
Just a thought.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Unless you are attempting to deliberately troll Slashdot, don't submit stories from the Daily Mail!
This short video will help you understand.
These contain phosphors, barium compounds, and leaded gasses.
What is the CRT that kid is smashing open with a rock?
-1? Somebody is jealous!
With all this "computers in the third world" stuff (e.g. One Laptop per Child) we are forgetting something very important - that when people in the third world access the Internet, they will be exposed to advertisements and/or information about products they want, but won't be able to afford any of it, and they will get very sad.
Perhaps we should concentrate on food and money instead - they will be much happier than they would be with computers.
I'm a community college physics teacher in the U.S., and I scrounge computer hardware to use in my lab classes. The school provides one Windows box per lab group, i.e., 7 computers for a class of 25 students. The trouble with that is, you get one student doing the graphs on the computer, and the rest of the group just sits there and watches. I've made a geekly hobby out of putting together decent Linux systems from garage sales, thrift shops, etc., to supplement what the school provides. It was interesting comparing the article with my own experiences back here in the developed world.
One thing to keep in mind is that the line between good and bad hardware is extremely fuzzy. I picked up an old 500 MHz e-Machines box recently at Good Will for $89, and with a $20 memory upgrade it makes a perfectly decent Linux machine, especially with a distro like xubuntu that's designed more for low-end hardware (xfce rather than gnome, abiword rather than OOo). Many people would have considered this machine too old to be useful, but it works fine for the application I need it for.
Similar deal with monitors. I actually find that cheap monitors are much, much harder to find than cheap computers. You don't see them much at thrift shops or swap meets, I guess because CRTs are heavy and bulky in relation to what you can sell them for. When I do get an old CRT, its mean time to failure is usually pretty darn short, probably 12-24 months. As far as I can tell, computer CRTs have a certain lifetime, and when you get your hands on a cheap one it's already near the end of that.
One thing that's absurd, when you view computers as potential solid waste, is the amount of air inside a tower case these days. On a low-end machine, the case can easily be 90% empty. It's the equivalent of going to McDonalds and having them serve you your little 99-cent hamburger in a styrofoam clamshell the size of a microwave oven. I'm hoping the Asus eee Box comes out soon, and Asus doesn't jack up the price. For $269, it could be a wonderful deal.
And by the way, if you're in Orange County, CA, and have a working monitor you're willing to donate, please email me at crowell08 at lightSPAMandISmatterEVIL dot com. I'll be more than happy to come and pick it up, and you can have the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that you're helping me spread peace, love, and linux to my students.
Find free books.
With the current cost of fuel for transporting stuff overseas and the increased value of copper and gold and just about everything else in computers, it's a lot more cost effective to melt them down here for bare metals.
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
After seeing this story I realize I'm an enlightened environmental hero. That 486DX2 in the corner would be poisoning people if I hadn't though "I might still need it for something!"
... also, I can kill you with my brain.
But we should do something about those who send junk, that is completely defective machines that aren't of any use whatsoever.
Yes, we should be upset that we are handing them raw materials. If it were me, and I was hungry, and I understood that plants grow, and can be cultivated, but I could not afford a shovel... I'd be overjoyed to be handed a 20-year-old mid-tower. Since I don't have electricity anyways (or if I do, it's for the TV), I can use the casing to make a shovel, a hoe, or a rake, with nothing more than a hammer (this heat sink might do the trick, in a pinch) and a stick. No, I can't eat it, and I sure as hell won't be hooking that 486 to the net, but what do I care? It didn't work anyway, and now I can make a garden in my yard... And I bet that home-made shovel will make my neighbor think twice about stealing my tomatoes.
To make a long story short... does it matter that they're receiving junk? After all, "One man's trash is another's treasure."
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
When my laptopS were stolen, the cops said apparently many wind up in Africa.
Many kids need computers to learn off of. If the computers aren't used for junk, but for education, even a 12 year old computer can be used to teach computer skills. I've shipped about a dozen over and have actually been to Namibia. As long as the computers aren't junk, there's a lot of good your old computer can do in poor communities.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Send them the bones we discard from our fried chicken and and ribs. I hear they are not only hungry for high-tech but FOOD as well.
Hope is the currency of fools
Care to tell me how you'd deal with the epidemic of obesity in the west?
First, by West, you must mean US. There is no epidemic of obesity in Europe.
My solution is simple - the new "Can't catch it, can't eat it" policy. Worked for millions of years. Put it in place in stages.
Stage one is a ban on food delivery services. The morbidly obese will starve down to a weight where they can at least get into their cars and get to the drive thru.
Stage two is a ban on drive thrus, so people will starve down to a weight when they can actually get out of their cars and into the counter or grocery store to get their food.
Stage three is a weight limit on disabled parking passes. If you're so fat that you need a special parking permit to get to your food, you'll starve down to a weight where you can at least hobble in to get your food.
Stage four is a ban on any personal scooters or electric wheelchairs that can support more than 250 lbs. If you're too fat to propel yourself, you'll starve down to a weight where you can at least stand up on your own.
Stage five is the big one - the doors of any food retailer will no longer be allowed to be any wider than 20". Then people will at least starve down to a size where they can fit through the door.
See? Piece of cake. Er....
paintball
The idea of throwing computers at the many problems of developing nations has long seemed ludicrous to me. However, I did volunteer for a time with the WiderNet Project at the University of Iowa. Part of the Widernet Project is to send rehabilitated (yet quite old) computer equipment to Africa. Yet the major component of the project is to seek out copyright permission from publishers of websites and, afterward, to copy those websites onto what are called "eGranaries". In essence, they want to send the internet sans bandwidth requirements to schools and universities in the developing world. What charities need to understand is that computers by themselves are worthless, they require a data infrastructure to be worth something.
If you want to help these people, send them some god-damned condoms, of course they can't support themselves when there's 19 mouths to feed per family.
(exaggeration of course)
I was going to mod this as troll, but I'll let someone else take care of that, and just point out the following:
a) The 'Peoples Republic of the Congo' does not, and to the best of my knowlege never did, exist.
b) The combined total area of the Republic of the Congo and the Democratic Republic of the Congo is 2,686,858km
c) The total area of the continental United States (the 'lower 48') is 8,080,464.25 km
d) Computers contain highly toxic metals and PCBs. Due to recent 'greening,' old computers generally contain significantly more than newer, shinier ones. Sending old faulty or unusable computers (and even functional ones eventually) to third world countries is tantamount to coopting them as a dumping ground for our hazardous waste. Is the second-hand PC that may or may not have any positive effect on your situation, worth generations worth of groundwater contamination from poorly managed landfill?
e) Computers may be a 1st world necessity, but they remain a 3rd world luxury. Infrastructure, agriculture, peace/law enforcement and economic stability need to come first. Hell, how about seeing what percentage of the populations you're ranting about even have electricity, or clean drinking water?
this one won't get a score, but it will be the truth
Well, that's half of your first sentence taken care of, let's see the mods go with the rest. Please take the time and effort to know and understand exactly what it is you're getting angry about, you'll be a better person for it.
I spent some time in Ghana last year and the computer situation there is rather interesting. In all internet cafes the computers are ancient (we're talking 486 and first generation Pentium boxes). The monitors are on the other hand excellent. After we in the west switched to TFTs, they got our CRTs and kept the good ones. They are however of limited use due to the weakness of the computer hardware. It's really atrocious to see Windows 95 in 640x480 on a 21" monitor.
Now as for the computers that don't work, while it is certainly not nice with the child labour and the pollution, if you ask the Ghanaians they would tell you that they would rather get our computer junk than not. The junk does have value and can provide them with an income that they would not have otherwise.
Speaking of pollution, the really damaging thing we are exporting are our old cars from the 80's. They don't have cat-cons and from most cars you can see a black cloud of exhaust gases. Again however, they are happier with the cars than without them.
The junk that we dump on them does nowhere near the damage that our blind and misdirected aid programs do. They result in two things: 1)financing of corrupt government officials 2)increasing the population beyond sustainable levels.
Ultimately however they need to get their shit together. Ghana is one of the more developed west African countries, but the situation is quite bad. The politicians are corrupt beyond belief and the only type of business that thrives is one that colludes with the politicians. In short their local industry doesn't actually do anything. Every engineering project of value has been done by westerners. The talented and able leave the country as soon as they can. There was also from what I could see a complete lack of entrepreneurial spirit. All the smaller businesses are run by foreigners (westerners, lebanese, chinese..).
When you drive down any of the main roads every 500m you have somebody with a small stand selling pineapples. That is as far as the local entrepreneurial spirit extends: street vendors. They sell exactly the same thing and nobody gets the idea of joining up with other vendors, expanding and centralizing etc.. in short running a business.
My conclusion from my stay was that it is a very difficult problem. I'm not sure that it is solvable - they are currently in so deep shit that it's difficult to see a way out. And we can't really help them either in a meaningful way. Investments are impossible as they have a history of nationalizing any successful industry and running it in the ground. In addition you could not make any investments without upholding the corrupt political system. You can't do anything on a larger scale without having resort to massive bribes.
It's however more than that - they not only have to fix their system, but they first have to want to fix their system. Yes, the people are complaining about the politicians, but the first chance they get they elect the rawest populist they can find. And when the government nationalizes foreign industries and seize the property of industrialists (that haven't greased the machinery enough), the people cheer. I know this is not a popular thing to say but to a large degree it's their own fault. Unlike pineapples, industry does not grow on trees (well, actually neither do pineapples as they grow in bushes, but you get the point) and they have to choose between their current style of political and economic management and having a working economy.
Having bought a new computer only once (1991, Tandy 1500HD) and having owned at least several dozen at various points, I can tell you that old hardware is still viable as long as it functions properly.
Now that Linux is so easy to get and (relatively) easy to learn, old hardware has become even more valuable. What, your 486 won't run Vista? Well then, you are in luck, 'cause Vista sucks.
The best help is "no help". Also known as "tough love". The poor shouldn't be having kids if they can't feed them.
Besides, the "humanitarian-industrial-complex" has been wasting time and energy for almost half a century trying to "help Africa", when the actual result has been merely to sustain a cultural mentality that has been causing a lot of its own problems. From http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/10/11/africa.billions.ap/index.html , via the Associated Press:
By the way, African slavery wasn't the result of colonialism by Europe; it was because warring African tribes would sell their African prisoners as slaves.
would link but i couldnt google the site sorry.
From the header "Is there more balanced coverage of used computer exports". Typically, the UK Mail does not do balanced. It manages to put a negative slant on an awful lot of stories - many of which, by other pens, might be perceived as good news.
Having spent some time bringing old computers to Africa, I can say it's a very complex issue. Seems like most unsolved problems are, unfortunately. It is certainly true that sending old computers over there is pretty much useless, and from the article, possibly outright bad.
I'll just say this: in the project I worked with, it wasn't so much that then needed computers as it was they needed the infrastructure to support them. I mean "infrastruture" on many levels: security to keep them from being stolen, the power grid staying up enough to use them consistently, the teachers in the schools being taught (one-on-one, hands on) how to use them in classrooms, support staff for repairs and usage issues, etc.
There is such a need and desire, and good people, yet progress is stymied by disfunction on so many levels. Trying to accomplish things in Africa reminds one just how lucky we are in a relatively clockwork society. So much that we take for granted is nearly impossible without the social mechanics in place. Doesn't matter how smart you are, if the world around you is dysfunctional, good luck.
The project I was part of has been amazingly successful, mainly because it's relatively small in scope, and there is a huge focus on follow-through. We would routinely have to push aside much more advanced equipment that failed because of lack of follow through. I don't know for sure, but I imagine this is true in other domains too: sending over "stuff", be it computers or food, is not nearly as valuable as sending over people who can plant the seeds of a more functional society.
That's my quick brain dump on this topic.
But biofuels are solving this problem by pricing poor people and NGOs out of the market, thus forcing the market to grow by increasing agriculture in those countries
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
If Africa shuns at them, I'll gladly take 'em - more free resistors and chips!
The Mail On Sunday, the Sunday edition of the Daily Mail is hardly a reliable source of news. Yet they keep turning up on sites like Slashdot, Digg, etc. It's probably because of their polarised world view
They hate everything, especially if a man came up with it. If a woman done good, then that's news, particularly if she stuck it too a man along the way.
Glittalogik says:
> Sending old faulty or unusable computers (and even functional ones eventually) to third world countries is >tantamount to coopting them as a dumping ground for our hazardous waste.
That's the basic premise of the article, and it's a completely unfair characterization.
What was shipped, was an undiagnosed mix of working and nonworking hardware.
A technician can determine functionality in UK for $100/hour, OR the end users
can do it themselves in Congo. Going with plan B makes sense both from the UK
end (less cost for them) and the Congo end (more computers received if they aren't
asking for a 1-year warranty). So, they went with plan B.
After some kind of diagnosis, some of the computer parts are scrapped for materials,
and THAT is poorly handled by the Congo end. There's nothing useful about
blaming the UK half of the transaction for this consequence. UK can't do
better for themselves by smashing good computers with the bad, and
can't do any net good for Congo that way either. Congo, remember, DOES need
computers.
At the repair center (I've worked there, trust me on this) there are "components" like
monitors, that have maybe 50 electronic parts. The "component" is nonfunctional
if one of 50 electronic parts is faulty, or misadjusted. Given three dead monitors,
the likelihood is that two working monitors can be built from those electronic parts.
So, shipping dead computers can benefit Congo, because it gives them access to repair
parts. The $100/hour UK technician can't fix enough of those monitors to keep
him in business, however. The UK technician cannot economically use the repair
parts potential.
The other unfair characterization in the article, is that Congo, no matter HOW they get
computers, will someday scrap them (even if they buy new-retail-box) and in the
Congo style, that scrap phase will be dirty. UK practices can only alter the scale of
the Congo scrap piles, not their ugliness.
My girlfriend and I have been working on a small number of computers (about 15) to send over to Senegal... Ziguinchor to be precise.
The idea behind what we have been working on was to use older computers, get them working properly (which has been one of the biggest headaches in my life) and install a cybercafe software on it.
We were planning on donating these to a small organization there that promotes women's and children's rights and has a pre-school. The idea behind this was so that the children could learn how to use a computer (because education = power) and when the students weren't at school, the computers could be used as a public internet cafe to help pay for the electricity and internet connection to run them. My girlfriend had already spent 9 months living over there and did a business study on it to see if it might work.
Unfortunately, however, the man in charge of the school decided to email us and tell us he wanted the computers in his house instead of at the school; so no go on Senegal.
We've decided to start looking domestically, however. A lot of the native American communities are fairly impoverished and completely isolated (as in remote regions of Alaska). And just last week, slashdot was reporting on the Navajo losing their computers. So why not start here?
We have a website, but I don't want to link directly to it on here (I can't afford the bandwidth and I don't want to plug a site and hijack the thread). However, if you're interested in googling us, the organization is One Click At a Time... and I'll give you a hint: "one" is not spelled out in the domain.
Right now our project is on hold due to the lack of anywhere to send these. If you have any input or suggestions, feel free to email us if you find the site :)
My girlfriend and I have been working on a small number of computers (about 15) to send over to Senegal... Ziguinchor to be precise. The idea behind what we have been working on was to use older computers, get them working properly (which has been one of the biggest headaches in my life) and install a cybercafe software on it. We were planning on donating these to a small organization there that promotes women's and children's rights and has a pre-school. The idea behind this was so that the children could learn how to use a computer (because education = power) and when the students weren't at school, the computers could be used as a public internet cafe to help pay for the electricity and internet connection to run them. My girlfriend had already spent 9 months living over there and did a business study on it to see if it might work. Unfortunately, however, the man in charge of the school decided to email us and tell us he wanted the computers in his house instead of at the school; so no go on Senegal. We've decided to start looking domestically, however. A lot of the native American communities are fairly impoverished and completely isolated (as in remote regions of Alaska). And just last week, slashdot was reporting on the Navajo losing their computers. So why not start here? We have a website, but I don't want to link directly to it on here (I can't afford the bandwidth and I don't want to plug a site and hijack the thread). However, if you're interested in googling us, the organization is One Click At a Time... and I'll give you a hint: "one" is not spelled out in the domain. Right now our project is on hold due to the lack of anywhere to send these. If you have any input or suggestions, feel free to email us if you find the site :)
It is rather presumptuous to declare with such broad strokes what an entire nation wants, particularly when there are certainly people who strongly disagree and are in a position to do so with moral authority. Such a declaration also neatly alleviates one from the reality that the option of ignoring the trend of mass industrialization has been made all but impossible. Deliberate population intimidation and destruction through corporate warfare is commonplace in such nations. --It's a question of get with the game or be strong-armed and clear-cut out of existence, (not to mention, forced into labor). The point I was making was that despising a people for not naturally being able to adopt the values of a foreign culture is both insular and arrogant. This is further so when there is a strong element in the developed nations to prevent strong business and government from developing which might create conditions whereby slave labor is no longer feasible.
-FL
Maybe if they had put them inside on a desk and not outside on the ground, they wouldn't be junk
More than 60,000 Windows programs won't run on Linux.
I think some of our slashdotters think that the kids in Africa are just sitting there waiting for some old parts to fall into their laps which they can hack together to make a working computer...which they will run without electricity. Where are the computers going? Relief organizations? Come on. They have no use for them. You can argue all day long about the effects of relief organizations. It's never that black and white - some are good, some are bad. Some are having positive effects, some are having negative effects. What's your goal? To raise the standard of living for "all African citizens?" That's a chimera that people will be chasing long after we're gone. Most of the relief organizations are only effective because they're effective in one place, with one population. That may lower the standard of living somewhere else, or it may just raise the standard of living. What about you? Do you have a right to say anything when you're (anybody reading slashdot probably--and if you're not I'm sorry) has a full belly and a roof over your head. That makes us rich. Are you willing to give up even some of that luxury in order that one (or twenty) African citizens can have more? I'm not really concerned with your answer to that question. I'm just saying - can any of us really untangle the moral mess that comes out of it? But that shouldn't stop us from trying, even in stumbling ways, to make a difference. I'm part of an organization that is pulling together newer computers (P4's and Dual Cores) to send to a lower income school in South Africa for training purposes. There are jobs, even in third world countries, using computers, and these students with those skills could have the chance to change their lives for the better with a job. Oh, and I love linux, but the employers only take people with experience with M$ software. The free/open solutions don't give them anything except luxuries they can't afford to maintain. Stop sending our trash there, but apply some of our resources to actually make a difference, and use solutions that make sense. If you're somebody who doesn't think you should share your resources with the less fortunate, then we don't have anything to talk about on this subject. You're just taking advantage of your position.
The local community college I went to for a few classes actually had my IT class sit down on the last day and test about 200 old P4 1.4-1.7Ghz machines. Any faulty ones where recycled. The good ones got a clean XP ghost and sent to Africa. Sure, one or two may have made it through, but every effort was made to make sure they where clean and working.
Joe's probably gonna need an
-- importer's license by the State of Florida,
-- and probably need a toxic waste handling certificate
-- OSHA certs
-- EPA documentation
-- site security
-- PR office to deal with GreenPeace and other environmental concerns...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
A BABYwolf cluster of 50,000 286's?!?
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Greenpeace opposes exporting computers to the third world for the same reason that they oppose economic development within the 3rd world. When the standard of living improves in the 3rd world thanks to capitalism and free trade, it becomes that much harder to sell the population on Marxism.
Don't believe me? Ask the co-founder of Greenpeace, Patrick Moore, who left the group when it became overrun with leftists who have since then used the public's concern about the environment to push their Marxist agenda.
Most of the African nations in question have more than enough to pay their own way for food and tech...but those with the $$$$$$$$$$$ refuse to.
Now who are these people with the $$$$$$$$$$$???
Well, it is the political and military powers...those corrupt people leaching off their own people to gain wealth and power....
Send nothing, no aid, no tech, NOTHING.
.. someone is using Africa as a tech equipment dumpster... :(
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Ah, well.
Computers in Africa...2nd hand or not.
There's no electricity for maybe 95% of the population 95% of the day (ZA excluded). So, this stuff mostly worthless, comparable to the proverbial fridge in the Arctic (well, global warming may actually kill this joke...)
As others have pointed out: Africa must
- get its shit together
- not spend so much on military
- spend more for the whole population
- not for the relatives of the guy in power at the moment
- build up social systems, educational system etc that dev-aid and NGOs are currently doing for all the dictators who in turn take the money to swiss banks and weapon-dealers...
In short: get rid of nepotism and civil wars.
All this talk about famins etc and "we should let the surplus population die" - relax: due to several factors (peak oil, exhaustion of other stuff like phosphate that artifical fertilizer is made of, China + India with higher meat-consumption etc.pp.), producing agricultural products will get much more expensive here in the 1st world. I don't think people can imagine how expensive it will get and and how much they will have to pay for stuff.
As a result, we will not be able to sustain the food-aid projects like in the last decades - simply because there will not be any surplus food around here to send down - there hardly isn't today already, UN food aid program costs have already skyrocketed to the point where FAO is scrambling to pay for the costs.
For Africa, it will mean more wars, more problems, more deaths, more catastrophes - but it will also have unprecedented consequences on our life.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin