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A Full-Time 2-Way Video Link To Grandparents?
uid7306m writes "We have elderly parents who live a long way off. However, my technological radar tells me that it's possible to set up a 24/7 video link between our kitchen and theirs. It'd be good for our kids and good for the parents, and we can now get pretty cheap nearly unlimited broadband connections at this end (UK). What's the best way to do it? Has anyone tried it? On the far end, it ought to have, in Dilbert's(TM) immortal words 'One big button on it, and we push it for you in the factory.'"
I use Apple's iChat. Of course you need a Mac but I talk for hours full screen to my relatives around the world. With two semi-good broadband connections, it works flawlessly and the quality is second to none (in this price range). Of course the downside is that you'd both need Macs.
24/7? Guess no more going out to the kitchen in your undies for a late night snack.
Unless you want your kids to see grandpa giving it to grandma over the kitchen sink, I wouldn't recommend it.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
... but that might be too complicated.
I could see some advantages of streaming both ways to large flat panels. I think it would be a bit intrusive, though, because as much as I love my parents I'm very glad there is a 10 hour distance between us.
If all else fails you could just do a webcast. While interestingly linked, I just can't get into the concept too much for fear that one day I might see my mother in law staring back at us ;)
I am sure that there are other similar products, and at under $150 a piece, something like the DLink DVC-1000 here: http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=1&pid=8 would be hard to beat in terms of simplicity.
Those willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.
I have tried it on numerous occasions - it is solid for home-home comminications.
Also, everything is just a click away!
You can also use skype but the quality is not consistent. Also, too many clicks.
Are you with a decent ISP? (If there is such a thing)
If you are with Virgin Media then you will easily exceed their bandwidth limits which you can find at the bottom of this page.
I'm not sure what other ISPs set their limits at (or if they publish them at all like VM do) but I'm pretty sure you would exceed them also.
I'd think about the possibility of other options, such as simply using a video-call when required. Most of the time you would simply be streaming video of 2 empty kitchens to each other wouldn't you?
If you have a Linux distribution, there is 'ekiga' which allows you to run video conferencing.
But I've always wondered if there was something simpler that wouldn't need to go through a third party server, and would allow the webcam window to be resized.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Install Skype at both ends and start a video call between them. Enable full screen mode and presto, you have a 24/7 live video link.
At your gramp's kitchen, two options:
If you're not very adventurous: Any computer. Any video conferencing software (such as Skype). VPN software (such as OpenVPN). VNC software (such as RealVNC). The best is if you get a computer where the screen and computer are in the same enclosure. You don't even hook up a keyboard or a rat. If something happens, you lgo on their desktop thru the VPN and VNC and click on Skype again or whatever.
If you are very adventurous. Buy a nice flat screen display. Take the damn thing apart and get rid of all the crap except the screen and whatever signal massaging hardware is hooked up to it. Get a single board x86 computer that has a watchdog chip on it and built-in flash and tons of RAM for your software installation. Attach it and the screen's signal massaging hardware to one side of a rectangular piece of sheet metal the size of the display, and attach the display on the other side of it. Make that sheet metal a bit taller than the display. Get a camera with built-in microphone; take it apart, and attach it above the display. This probably requires drilling a few holes, tapping is optional, and will probably require some nuts, standoffs, etc. Run the wires however you can, preferably the shortest distance possible. Make an enclosure for this out of wood or something. Install Linux, OpenVPN, X, VNC, and your video conferencing software (something like Ekiga, hacked to automatically initiate a connection to you upon startup) into the flash in such a manner that upon power-up or reset, the entire flash partition is copied into RAM that's treated as a partition and booted from there. At all other times, the flash is never touched. Upon the computer crashing, locking up, or being h4x0red/0wn3d/etc., (which might happen once in a while), the watchdog will reboot it, so a fresh, original filesystem image is loaded back into the RAM and rebooted. This can happen in a matter of a minute from reset thru the videoconferencing software coming up again. With OpenVPN, you can always log in and fix something unexpected if that happens. While we're at it, build yourself one of these. And for extra credit, document the whole process with photos and videos and post it online for everyone to respect you in awe for being such a 1337 h4x0rz yourself. Heck, you might even be able to make a business out of selling a bunch of these. Hint: If you want to do that, stock up on a bunch of the same model display, because those change all the time and you can never buy the same exact thing (with same hardware attached) twice. If you attempt to go through one of those flatscreen stocking companies, the same display will cost you double and not come with the added hardware.
McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
We have bought a pair of Grandstream videophone. The are cheap and much easier to use than PC for older people as they are basically ... telephones.
You can even setup Grandpa's one in auto-answer mode but I would not recommend it for obvious privacy issues as one of the comments above maliciously reminded.
AH and to overcome NAT and dynamic IP address issues, you have to setup a hosted SIP proxy and media relay such as Asterisk. I cheat here as this the very business of my company.
By the way if you want a pair of free SIP accounts and the Grandstream videophone, we could sell them to you.
...when Gramps and Granny pass away live over the video link... oh dear! On the other hand it's good for children to learn about death at an early age.
M0571y H@rml355.
Umm haven't you heard? You only get that if you dont use it.
Start doing 24/7 video and you will find your connection throttled, or gone.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
There are a variety of IP surveillance systems on the market designed for people who want to monitor their vacation homes, etc. Most of these are pretty inexpensive and easy to configure. That might be easier than building your own system using PCs.
This company seems to offer a wide variety of solutions, some standalone, some PC based: www.fgeng.com
I don't see why everyone is recommending complicated video conferencing setups. Just set up apache on each end to stream from your webcam and use iptables to block connections from any IP except the one on the other end. If you don't have static IPs write a little script to update iptables on the other end every time the local IP changes. Then use dyndns so you never lose track of the other end (only apply the whitelist on the streaming port so ssh doesn't get blocked. Then use ssh keys). Then all you have to do is point firefox to their dyndns address/port.
"It's a sad commentary on the "state of the art" of supposed Nerds here, too true."
Don't you have 100 tacos to buy and a Doctor Who marathon to watch?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
You made no mention of what your hardware was, nor even whether or not you had a video camera.
A few years ago, I bought some DLink webcams to set up a custom home video surveillance system, with remote monitoring from work. I believe that the model number was DCS-5300. But since they're mounted on-high, I'd rather not climb up on a ladder to find out for sure.
For bandwidth and security reasons, I chose to get the 10/100Base-T versions, not wireless. The wired versions were also cheaper. You're going to have to run power cords to the wherever you mount them anyway, so why not an Ethernet wires at the same time?
They're designed to be always on (for home surveillance), as you indicated you wanted, 24/7. I don't even remember if they have an on/off switch. They draw considerably less power than a computer and webcam combination.
They came with their own Web server and have their own IP addresses on my home LAN. Of course, they're configurable with a Web page interface.
You wanted using the system to be a no-brainer, presumably to help out your less-than-techno-savvy kids and parents. You can't get any more simple than these webcams. You just browse to them with any Web browser. You can set the browsers up with Bookmarks/Favorites to make getting there simple.
The cams serve up a Web page with the camera feed on it. If you've configured them for permission to control the camera, the page will also have controls to pan, tilt and zoom.
If you use a broadband router as a firewall, you'll have to configure the router to expose the cam's server port to the Internet. If you're concerned about the security of doing that, note that the Web server software resides on a chip. It doesn't have a disk drive. It isn't even big enough to contain a disk drive. It's as secure as the Web server that comes built into most broadband routers these days.
As I said, I bought them years ago. There are bound to be other brands by now besides DLink that do the same things, if you want to shop around.
iRobot has a very nice device ConnectR.
Apparently they do not sell it just yet. And yes, I would be careful buying it because my mom could be very... um... advisable?
Several have already said it, but I had to endorse iChat.
I have 7x24 video conferencing up and running with a remote test team in India. The idea is that it is muted unless one or the other side wants to say something.
We tried both Skype Video (another frequently mentioned option) and iChat. We are staying with iChat due to the simplicity, robustness, and quality.
With Skype we had the connection drop multiple times in a night. With iChat it runs and runs and runs.
With Skype, we had significant video and audio artifacts all of the time. With iChat they are infrequent occurrences.
For Skype I had to write up an instruction guide. With iChat folks just got it.
So, I say go with iChat.
On behalf of my fellow elderlies (I'm only honorary, at 53, but I'm in training), you do not want a 24/7 link. It needs to have a call siggnal and an on/off switch. You, and we, do not need to deal with your trauma of seeing grandpa bending grandma over the sink for a sneak-up quickie.
Don't think we don't. You don't want to think about it at all, so consider the reasons why you don't want to.
If you want a global on switch, fine. Let us have an override off switch. Put an hour delay cut-off on it if you like. We're old, it takes us more than the 10 minutes you kids take. (Just wait until you get to enjoy that aspect). And we're gladly admit that an hour is plenty, and we should be looked in on after that. Especially if we spend the whole hour.
On the other hand, I've heard said "We wouldn't even bother to do it anymore, but the kids like to watch." If your elders have that mindset, go ahead and give them the means to offer you instruction 24/7. You don't think they haven't learned a few novel tricks in 40 or so years?
Got a problem with this? Get over yourself. You're halfway to this age yourself, and I'm betting when you get there you'll have no plans on stopping.
Go ahead and mod this funny, since you don't have a "+1 elders' wisdom" mod.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Yup. VLC passing off to a Darwin Streaming Server and being viewed by VLC on the other end. Easy to do, no issues until power goes out
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Don't you have 100 tacos to buy and a Doctor Who marathon to watch?
Yes, but because I took the time to fucking think about it, the PVR in my PC is working just fine so I'll timeshift the Dr Who marathon a bit and take the time to reply to you. Anyway, the Tacos are on their way and it takes a while to stuff 100 of them into the delivery guy's car (so i hear).
I agree with the parent's sentiment - what has happened to the nerd way of doing something because it needed to be done? Very few people want to think about their problems anymore.
The powerful scientific pocket calculator was the start of all this hoo haa. Kids were dumbed down and started forgetting to do basic arithmetic (yes, there are many who can't work out how much change I get when the till is down and I've just ordered a hundred tacos).
The Intarwebs has been the other downfall. People are only too happy to put "i want to do X" into Google and click pages. If no useful results come up they bitch and moan that there is no way to do X (maybe X is just something so menially boring that nobody documented it, or it's just dumb, or nobody ever thought of it yet) but these people don't care.
What you're seeing people is the well-established decline in intelligence and determination which comes with the "google-it" culture.
I drink to make other people interesting!
You likely won't get away with the bandwidth you'll use doing this -- especially if it's Comcast. Inside the first month, they'll be all up in your business, threatening to shut you down, etc. because you dare to use the bandwidth you're paying for. I don't imagine it's going to be any better with any other ISP either, unless you buy business-class service, in which case they have less of a right to "manage" the bandwidth you're paying (way too much) for. A better idea would be to have a video link-on-demand instead of 24/7; sorry, pal. :-/
a 24/7 video link is your hat. Take it . . . and drop it over the camera when you're doing anything you don't want the viewer to see.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Considering the depths this thread has gone to, did you misspell streaming on purpose?
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
There are self contained WiFi and Ethernet webcams (Most have a mini web server built in). That, a router and a Dynamic IP Name Service ( http://www.dyndns.org/ ) will finish off the bill. Many routers have built in support for some Dynamic IP Name Services. You set the router to forward Port 80 (Or whatever port the webcam ues) to the IP address of the webcam. Then you just point the computer at the URL and you are seeing still images or streaming video. Most Webcams even support a password system so only those who you want to have access will. No dedicated computer, software, or anything like that.
I bet you have an automatic machine that chases whipper-snappers off your lawn.
seems like a easy and free / multi platform and open source solution is the VLVC plugin for VLC
http://www.vlvc.net/en-home.html
actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
The Japanese have had porn for a while, but they are clever about it. For instance they have porn magazine vending machines on the street, but a cover comes down over the magazines till after 8PM, then you can see what you would be buying. They also have beer vending machines. In some ways they are very advanced.
Just to second the suggestion for iChat and point out that iChat has a (command-line enabled) AUTO ANSWER facility. So when you ring your GrandParents they don't even need to click to answer.
I don't find the iChat "Chat Request" panel to be that intuitive (for GrandParents). It just displays a pane with the request annoucement but no buttons. You need to click on the panel to make it expand to show the accept/reject buttons.
Auto-Answer can also help if GrandParents aren't computer literate or have trouble seeing the small on-screen pointer.
Of course, most people don't like the invasion of privacy that this allows but then if you are thinking of video-chatting 24x7 this should not really be a problem.
Google for how to do it ...
Cheers,
Ashley.