Large Content Patch To Precede Upcoming WoW Expansion

Blizzard has announced they will be releasing a sizable patch to prepare for the upcoming Wrath of the Lich King expansion to World of Warcraft. The patch, similar to one they released prior to the first expansion, will include the new profession (Inscription), new talents for each class, and two new arenas. The patch will be up on the Public Test Realm "soon," according to a Blizzard rep, but it will require significant testing before reaching the live servers. Blizzard developers Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack gave a related interview recently to Videogamer in which they mentioned that a graphical reboot for World of Warcraft "may never be necessary." We've been following the development of Wrath of the Lich King for a while now.

Comments

Meh

[snowraver1]

I stopped playing WOW about a year ago. It was the same thing over and over. Push number, wait for bar to fill, push another number, wait for bar, then loot. Rebuff, and start again.

To me, this expansion means nothing. I would be curious to hear if this expansion will cause any players that have left to actually rejoin.

Re:Meh

[craenor]

I stopped playing WOW about a year ago. It was the same thing over and over. Push number, wait for bar to fill, push another number, wait for bar, then loot. Rebuff, and start again. To me, this expansion means nothing. I would be curious to hear if this expansion will cause any players that have left to actually rejoin.

So instead, for entertainment, you read news about WoW and discuss it online. I might have to try that when the server's down or I'm at work...oh wait.

Re:Meh

[__aanonl8035]

>> I would be curious to hear if this expansion will cause any players that have left to actually rejoin.

Yeah. Because, hopefully, all the old friends I use to hang out with, or at least some of them, will re sign up as well. The fun in the game for me was tackling new challenges with friends.

Now, granted, the game is really geared towards leveling up and acquired virtual items so that you are better than someone else. Eventually, people get bored when they approach a certain level. I imagine though, that the expansion will draw in some of those people as well. There will be new points to gain, new digital icons to acquire.

Re:Meh

[snuf23]

"Now, granted, the game is really geared towards leveling up and acquired virtual items so that you are better than someone else."

I never really cared about being better than someone else. I just wanted levels and gear so I could survive in new zones or instances and enjoy more of the game.

Re:Meh

[joelwyland]

I stopped playing WOW about a year ago.

I see, so your opinion about this game that you don't enjoy and don't play is incredibly relevant.

It was the same thing over and over. Push number, wait for bar to fill, push another number, wait for bar, then loot. Rebuff, and start again.

I feel sorry that you remember such a beautifully artistic game with a great storyline and other fun people to play with was so grey and empty. Perhaps the game is interesting and you are the boring one.

Re:Meh

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

which makes you the exception, not the rule.

Re:Meh

[Anachragnome]

Mixed feelings about WoW.

While I agree with you regarding the artistic merit of WoW ("stunning" was the word I found myself using a lot)and the storyline(very immersive), I have to agree with the parent poster. I found the repetitiveness of faction grinding, material acquisition, etc., very annoying. I found myself doing the same thing over and over just to do something different. Also, as a regular highend raider, I found that I had to obligate myself, in order to keep raiding, to times that were not really available for gaming. It was, in effect, effecting other non-gaming aspects of my life. I felt locked into the game. This realization was what made me decide to cancel my account. I do miss it, but I am glad to have no more obligation to the game.

The thing I liked about it the most was large-scale cooperation of many players, many good friends. But eventually, the repetition outweighed the benefits.

I reactivated my Ultima Online accounts (I have two) and now I can play wherever and whenever I want(I can take a brand new character into the hardest dungeon in the game, if I choose, but would probably not last long). I have zero obligation to do something in the game I do not want to, in order to be allowed access to other content. It is a very NON-linear game, as opposed to WoW being very linear, in that you have to do certain things, many times, in order to experience certain content. Sure, Ultima Online has repetition. But it not required.

To this day, and after trying most of the MMOs that have come out since UO, I have YET to find a game that gives me the freedom Ultima Online does.

Re:Meh

[Endo13]

I have been playing off and on for over 3 years. But I'm pretty sure this craptastic next expansion will seal the deal for me. Looks like I'll be giving Warhammer a try.

It's not surprising though that the expansions are sucking compared to the original game, given how much of the original team has left.

Re:Meh

[airos4]

Sorry, I have to agree with the parent of this thread... many people who have experienced this game get bored because of the repetitive nature of the gameplay. Check out sluggy.com for a nice series of commentary jokes about it.
http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=080820

Your comments about him being irrelevent are trollish - he does have experience with the product, and decided for himself. I'm sorry you've chosen to take a complex argument and make it "you haven't been there TODAY, have you".

Re:Meh

[_Sprocket_]

Go ahead and jot down an exception next to my name too. For me the gear has always been tools to a greater goal. The closest this has become to a desire to be "better" is the realization that said gear (especially when "resilience" came in to the picture) was pretty important in a PvP encounter.

Granted - that still makes folks like me and the parent part of a small minority (or a very quiet majority).

Re:Meh

[_Sprocket_]

Are you really getting to freely experience content if you're so under-prepared (read: must be Grand Master in several skills plus equipment) that the mobs take you out shortly after walking through the door? Or if some player goon squad does the same?

Don't get me wrong - UO was great. Still is in many ways. But I'm thinking your field over there isn't as green as you think it is. :)

Re:Meh

[Duffy13]

If you can find one MMO that isn't repetitive, or hell even one game that isn't repetitive I will declare you the winner of this conversation. Even better, find an action irl that isn't also incredibly repetitive and you win. Now that I think of it, I've made this post several times too!!! As a side note, I generally stop playing a game once all I notice is the repetitiveness of playing, which usually only happens when I run out of new things/story to try/experience or on the rare chance that a game is so shallow and lackluster that I don't even play through it. WoW is the type of game I play in spurts, quit till something new comes along then go back until I run out of stuff to do again. It's the type of game that keeps on giving. Then again I love the ongoing story so I'm probably a rare exception of MMO players now a days .

Re:Meh

[lgw]

Color me exceptional as well. I play these MMOs until I've reached the top level and seen all of the content, then move to the next one. If I'm going to waste any energy trying to be more successful than my neighbor, it's going to be in real life.

Re:Meh

[lgw]

Well, it depends on your definition of repetitive. Any RPG will be repetitive in the sense of "overcome challange, see more of the world, become more powerful, repeat" but that's not what people complain about. People get bored by "grind" - doing *exactly* the same thing with the same abilities for the same reward over and over again.

Modern MMOs are very grindy. WoW's success is that it doesn't get grindy until the endgame. In the early days of MUDs and MUDs-with-pictures and UO, there were lots of games and activities that weren't grindy. There were pure puzzle games. UO had dozens of different rewarded activities in the game, from treasure hunts to cracking the spell system.

The eventual "WoW killer" will succeed because they recapture that, and eliminate grind from even the endgame by adding a host of things to do. In WoW's endgame you have four choices: solo grind faction/cash, run instances, PvP, and crafting. Crafting tops out pretty quickly, but that's fine, it's still something different. A game which had dozens of activities (integrated into the world, you donb't want them to feel like minigames) would keep people busy for much, much longer without the sense of grind.

Re:Meh

[Duffy13]

You are technically talking about different goals, not about games being repetitive actions, and in that regard I can agree with you. Grinds are a goal, a very bad goal in my opinion and many others'. Using them as an excuse for progress is well, dumb. Luckily, WoW has started to move away from these actions more and more, it's not perfect yet but they are trying to remove the grinds. This does not change my basic comment, everything is repetitve, what matters is what you experience in the process. If you experience nothing but the repetitive actions, then the game has lost it's value to you.

Re:Meh

[khellendros1984]

The game's art was interesting, but you get the same style in, for instance, Warcraft 3. And although WoW may have a great storyline, I never got to see it...there were too many tedious "Kill this many x and bring the skins to y" quests in the way. Saying someone is boring because they dislike the grind? Not that cool, dude. When I play a game (especially with friends), I want something interesting to do, not something repetitive and so directly rules-based. Each to their own, of course...

Re:Meh

[Daswolfen]

You are not Prepared.... ...but I am, thanks to Sunwell runs...

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

just wait, they're be a few people sayin' "No, I'm an exception too". Funny thing, of the hundreds of people that read this comment, only a few are 'exceptions'.

Re:Meh

[Anachragnome]

That's the same thing. You're running Sunwell REPEATEDLY to get the loot you want. Same content, over and over. I can go to 50 different locations in UO and have exactly the same chances of getting exactly the same loot.

Re:Meh

[mattack2]

How "not repetitive" do you mean?

Obviously, there are some common elements (collect the 'fragments'), but the various levels in Psychonauts are very very different.

Re:Meh

[Anachragnome]

There is a difference between choosing to go somewhere unprepared (Ultima Online)and not being able to go there until you ARE prepared (WoW).

Ultima Online left that decision up to the players, not the developers. Example? Try taking your Level 13 WoW Toon into Sunwell for that fat loot. Not possible because the developers choose to make it so.

In Ultima Online, you CAN take an underdeveloped character into such a place, but only if you had numerous friends there to protect you. Far more logical and REALISTIC. But more importantly, from my perspective, to be able to make that decision myself.

Another aspect is that a player with really good actual SKILL at playing UO can get into places with very little preparation or ingame skills. In other words, that "unprepared" character CAN go into such dangerous places IN THE HANDS OF A HIGHLY SKILLED PLAYER. As such, very skilled players are rewarded with even more freedom. I remember getting my ass handed to me by butt-naked Mages simply because they out-classed me skill-wise. They didn't need the gear. Skill was enough. Granted, that has changed somewhat, but not entirely.

Try taking a butt-naked lvl 70 into Alterac Valley. I assure you that you will not last long regardless of skill.

Re:Meh

[joelwyland]

Saying someone is boring because they dislike the grind? Not that cool, dude.

Oh cmon, his description of the game was push button, wait, push button, repeat. If he wants to view the game in such lifeless and mechanical terms, then there is definitely something wrong with this guy's ability to enjoy ANYTHING. Seriously, what video game isn't just pushing buttons and waiting if you break it down to it's most basic mechanical functions? His lack of enjoyment of the game is not a problem with the game. His lack of the enjoyment of the game comes from him.

Re:Meh

[joelwyland]

Your comments about him being irrelevent are trollish - he does have experience with the product, and decided for himself.

The problem here is that TFA is about an upcoming content expansion to WoW. The people who play WoW are getting some more neat things to experience. He doesn't play the game anymore, he clearly doesn't like it, so this announcement of new content doesn't affect him at all. Yet, he wants announce that he's "meh" about the release of new content in a game that he doesn't play. So who the hell cares if he's not excited about the release of new content. He's not going to experience it because he doesn't play the game... and therefore, his feelings on the expansion are completely irrelevant.

Re:Meh

[codeonezero]

Push number, wait for bar to fill, push another number, wait for bar, then loot. Rebuff, and start again.

You clearly played a rogue..the most catered to class in the game (well arguably). Please stop crying about how hard and ennui it is to play a rogue...You can 100%-0% more classes, try playing something new and challenging. Just my two cents :D

Re:Meh

[lgw]

Well sure "everthing is repetititave" in some trivial sense. I turn on my PC, I move the ouse, I bang some keys, I turn off my PC. That's not very insightful, however. Using the same (player) skills to solve the same sort of problem is what most people find repetitive.

Changing the scenery or providing a storyline can help for a while, but that's about all WoW manages right now. Providing a large set of different activities, different to the extent that soloing, instances, PvP, and crafting are different, even though *each activity* is repetitive will be a difference in kind.

Some games have added challenging and tactically intersting raid content as an apporach to this - new zones that require very different approaches to "beat", but that only helps the guys who organize and plan the raids. To the rank and file of the raid it's just the scenery that changes, and in any case if you don't like large raids you have nothing.

There are several MMOs where getting to max level takes just a few weeks, and then it's all about PvP. IMO, one way to make a WoW killer is to add 20 other things that you can do once you get to max level where each activity feels quite different from the next. Each of those activities can itself be repetitive, but it's oging to take a whiel to get boring, and then you hop to the next one until it gets boring, and so on.

Re:Meh

[Bozzio]

Thank you, sir, for making sense.

Re:Meh

[GaryPatterson]

That goes for me too.

(I feel like this is becoming one of those "I am Spartacus!" scenes.)

Re:Meh

[_Sprocket_]

OK. Point taken on being free to walk in to danger at your own pace. Although I still maintain that it isn't really THAT much freedom when you're just as likely to be slaughtered (even more so when groups sell their services to lock down a dungeon - the aforementioned goon squads).

As for your naked mage... geared or otherwise, I'm willing to bet the guy still had several Grand Master skills under his belt. That took grinding / training to achieve even if it took a skilled player to put to good use.

Granted - WoW is MUCH more gear-oriented. But I've run in to players that have pulled off really impressive combinations of actions that weren't entirely based on their gear (although trinkets, engineering gadgets, etc. really expand on that). Unfortunately I've also run in to mobile brick walls of gear - so I understand where the comparison comes from.

Re:Meh

[andi75]

I second that, at some point your gear is just 'good enough' and all upgrades are minor.

Still, I got my T6 gloves (only a tiny upgrade over badge ones) because hey, T6 is just shiny.

Re:Meh

[mlts]

I remember some of the first MUDs I was on. Gear was important, but what was even more important was making sure skills, from the basic heal spells of a cleric, to a thief's pick lock skill were up to par. If they weren't, soloing and grouping were difficult, even with the best gear available.

What I'd like to see in newer MMOs would be something like EQ1's AA system, where even if your gear is absolute crap, if you have the AA points from grinding, you can hold your own on raids and such. The closest to this in WoW are faction grinds.

With WoW, pretty much any PvP encounter is a gear check. Skill plays virtually zero part in the game. You level to 70, get flattened in the BGs repeatedly until you get enough gear with res on it so you get flattened less and less. Then, you head to the arenas, where you try to at least a few wins for your weekly point income, and hope your personal arena rating doesn't sink too low.

Re:Meh

[blackicye]

I too fall under the exception category. I played WoW and farmed/raided for items to gear up to experience more content.

e-penis enlargement as far as I was concerned was just a by product of the exercise.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

This is funny, cause a whole battlegroup lies in ruins, right now. About two dozen servers.

Re:Meh

[Farmer Pete]

I have to disagree. I haven't played WoW since just after BC came out, however I was always very good at my class (Hunter). My first hunter was tricked out to hell and back (Best everything in the game). I leveled up another hunter after I sold my first hunter, and while leveling up I would go to the BGs a lot. I would get constant whines from people because I would go to the level 30-39 BG at level 32, but I would still kick everyone's ass. I figured it was just from knowing my class so well, but when I got to 60 with crap gear, I still spanked people like crazy. Yeah, it was harder having half the DPS, but I still was able to beat the vast majority of players. Maybe skill means less post BC, but before BC it was still important.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Rogues have been nerfed to hell, Every time they get something useful, other classes cry like babies until it is "balanced" to near uselessness. If your looking for catered to classes, try mage and druid. The whiniest 2 classes in WoW.

Re:Meh

[Rakarra]

Go ahead and jot down an exception next to my name too. For me the gear has always been tools to a greater goal.

This is the attitude of most "good" raiders as well. A number of folks get into it to feel superior to other people people standing on Awesome Hill in Orgrimmar (back at 60), but those folks often don't last that long in the raiding environment. When you treat epics as tools to progression rather than personal trophies you end up avoiding a good chunk of the loot drama out there as well..

Pvp has a larger range of attitudes.

Re:Meh

[Rakarra]

I stopped playing WOW about a year ago.

I see, so your opinion about this game that you don't enjoy and don't play is incredibly relevant.

Trust me, it's pretty relevant to Blizzard. You can see the GP's points addressed with every casual-friendly content patch to give the non-hardcore people something new to do as well.

Now, the GP's point pretty much only applies to the solo-content part of the game and the early 70 experience.. Once you get into the raiding/pvp aspect of the game, the "all you do is push one button, get loot" argument (mostly) goes out the window.

Re:Meh

[Rakarra]

That's the same thing.

You're running Sunwell REPEATEDLY to get the loot you want. Same content, over and over.

I can go to 50 different locations in UO and have exactly the same chances of getting exactly the same loot.

I would have agreed with you on this for the level 60 game, with Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, Ahn'Qiraj, and Naxxramas pretty much a straight progression line. You didn't skip any of those steps, at least not

WoW at level 70 seems quite a bit different. You have multiple high-end instances that drop the same level loot (Serpentshrine, Tempest Keep, Zul'Aman all drop Tier 5-level gear, and Mount Hyjal and Black Temple all drop Tier 6-level gear), and the Badge of Justice system allows you to turn in tokens gained in any heroic five-man dungeon, karazhan... any heroic or better instance for loot that's Tier 5 or 6 level, depending on how many of those badges you want to spend. No, you're not going to fill every item slot through badge rewards, but you can still outfit your character with extremely good gear by doing any of the many endgame instances available for you. For heroics, the instance daily quests encourage players to visit different instances instead of the same/"best" one over and over again as well.

Granted, none of that is Sunwell loot, but only a very very small fraction of the players in the game are far enough along to be taking down those bosses anyway. To me, Sunwell is like Diablo II's cow level. It's a cute extra.

Re:Meh

[Rakarra]

Mage and druid catered to? Druids in pvp, maybe. Mages in pvp or pve, catered to? Are you high? Sure, mages might be crying a lot now, but they have valid reason to.

I'll admit though, as of about a year ago, the druid class was the most unreasonably-whiny class in the game. Even the generally reasonable druids that were in my guild admitted as much.

Re:Meh

[immcintosh]

Yeah. Because, hopefully, all the old friends I use to hang out with, or at least some of them, will re sign up as well.

This isn't a mean-spirited troll, but I thought your logic was rather amusing: yeah, people will want to rejoin, because it'll make people want to rejoin.

Re:Meh

[immcintosh]

I take a slightly different approach. I just play them until I start spending a significant amount of time not-having-fun. In WoW that was maybe a year after hitting 60, and maybe 2 months after hitting 70, when the gameplay (PvP mainly here) just got old and uninteresting. I'm hoping for one to come along where the gameplay itself is compelling enough to keep me going, simply because it's just fun to play.

Re:Meh

[_Sprocket_]

With WoW, pretty much any PvP encounter is a gear check. Skill plays virtually zero part in the game. You level to 70, get flattened in the BGs repeatedly until you get enough gear with res on it so you get flattened less and less. Then, you head to the arenas, where you try to at least a few wins for your weekly point income, and hope your personal arena rating doesn't sink too low.

Player skill still matters. But I do find it to be a pretty subtle thing. Many folks barrel in to the fray without any mind to what's going on... apparently depending on brute force and gear. But I've also seen folks intelligently pick their fight, use their class skills, and pull off things that made me go "wow" and review my combat log to see exactly what they did.

But again - gear is important. Even more so with resilience gear. I can really tell when I've run in to someone w/out res. They go down real quick. So I completely agree with the need to run through BGs to stock up on points and tokens to purchase the PvP gear. Without it, you're at a real severe disadvantage.

Re:Meh

[thinsoldier]

Problem for me was that the 3 people I play most games with tend to be in my house most of the time. Telling them to spend $60 and then another $16 a month and get in their car and drive 6 miles back to their house so we can "play together" is fucking bullshit.

If 3 systems can play UT3 on my home network (1 only have 1 at the moment) and 4 people can play halo on 1 x-box on 1 screen (I can also make UT3 play split-screen on my pc) then I don't see why we can't have 2 people playing WoW on 1 machine on 1 account.

I'm sure there are a lot of kids out there whose parents didn't get them the game because it would cost too much fighting between their siblings and even if every child had their on PC it would be too expensive to buy a separate copy and pay a separate subscription for each kid!

Re:Meh

[codeonezero]

I figured that with this article being about WoW, humor in the form of typical WoW complaints would be appreciated. Oh well, lots of more karma where that came from :P

Every class is OP! :)

Re:Meh

[GaryPatterson]

Every class is OP! :)

Except Paladins.

Bubble... dispellable.
Blessing of Protection... doesn't protect from magic.
Buffs... dispellable by just about every class it seems. Hunters can dispel?!?
Two stuns that seem to be resisted an *awful* lot.
No specific interrupts (the stuns help, but once you've blown them, that's it, you're toast).
Warlocks and Warriors cause fear in the zealous Paladins, and we run away like scared little girls.

In PvP, my Paladin is a great target, soaking up damage and keeping the enemy busy while other players step in to kill them. If a good healer can keep me going, I can keep the attention of the enemy players focused on the big guy in shiny plate with the massive hammer. They forget about the guys in leather who vanished just before I ran forward.

Without a good healer, I've got maybe three seconds to live.

WotLK Paladins look to be different. I hope so.

Sorry, pet peeve there. I don't want to be OP, I just want better balance against classes like Warlocks and Rogues (who I just cannot touch 1:1).

Sue the ISP's

[B5_geek]

Blizzard and like should all get together and sue companies like Bell Canada and (Comcast?) that disrupt BT traffic. Wait, isn't that what net-neutrality is supposed to ensure?

In Other News:

[Tanman]

Game update doesn't work if people don't download update. News at 11!

Re:In Other News:

[njfuzzy]

That's not really true in a client-server environment. They can update almost all aspects of the game, and either change regardless of the client, or require the client update for the game to continue to work.

this just in

[Anonymous Coward]

game receives update! alert the media!

I work with a warcraft widow

[jollyreaper]

Beautiful woman and yet she has a boyfriend who lives in that game. (6hrs a day or more of playing, especially weekdays = living in the game.) MMO's, they're a helluva drug.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Syncerus]

Maybe if you paid more attention to her character and personality and less to her looks, you'd understand why her boyfriend played WoW all the time.

Just a thought.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Seakip18]

No joke. I had a roommate who, I swear, played WoW more hours than he did sleeping/spent outside his room combined.

My group of friends and I all played for a while as well. Great game when you can all meet at lunch the next day and bullshit about the raid and who was a n00b. Not too much fun when you're on a server all by yourself.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Anachragnome]

Beauty is not confined to the exterior of people.

A beautiful person can be as homely as they get. Conversely, The most physically attractive person can be a mass-murderer.

Your assumption about previous posters comment was quite possibly faulty.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Bloodoflethe]

Sad that you think it is more likely her fault than his. I've known a fair number of people who play warcraft that will even ignore their wife/girlfriend's advances because they feel some silly raid obligation or somesuch. Most of these women are actually awesome people and some of those awesome people are attractive women.

I play WoW myself, but find that, for me, the game can't hold a candle to my woman. The great thing is that I managed to find a group of like minded people with a guild large enough and with enough associations that when we are raiding or doing whatever and someone has to/wants to leave for family/friends/other, no one gets upset, we just post for a replacement in our alliance channel and wait a few minutes before continuing on. It's really quite enjoyable.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[_Sprocket_]

Beautiful woman and yet she has a boyfriend who lives in that game. (6hrs a day or more of playing, especially weekdays = living in the game.) MMO's, they're a helluva drug.

Ahhh - the oddity of human behavior. WoW (being a successful example of an MMO) is just another in the long line of activities that impact personal interactions. Ever hear of a "football widow"? Ever really seen a sign that reads "gone fishing"?

Yeah, sure... MMOs and other such ilk touch all these interesting psychological behaviors. But they're hardly unique in the realm of personal interaction (neglected or otherwise).

As for me... in about an hour, I'm going to be sitting down at the computer area with my wife and leveling up some alts. We got matching recruit-a-friend accounts to play with. Re-running all this old content with player classes we rarely use has been a blast.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[bigstrat2003]

I don't think you should assume it's either side's fault. I knew a girl who felt like she got dumped for WoW, but I also knew her boyfriend, and knew perfectly well that it had nothing to do with WoW: that was just his escape from the fact that he was in a relationship with a girl who was utterly crazy. If you only looked on the surface, you would say, "That bastard ignored and then dumped his girlfriend for WoW!", but you'd be wrong. It was merely a symptom of the fact that their relationship was toast... if it wouldn't have been WoW, it would've been something else.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Anonymous Coward]

Sense of humor : Slashdot :: Light : Black hole

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Bloodoflethe]

Thanks for fleshing out what was intended to be an inference.

I have second-hand knowledge of that side of things, as well.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[LrdDimwit]

She did get dumped for WoW. Like you said, it might have been something else, sure. But it wasn't. She got dumped, not because of WoW but because of issues; but this doesn't change the fact instead of telling her something like "I'm sorry, but you're nuts, and I can't take it. I'm leaving" he chose to hide behind something else.

This may be a fairly common tactic (I wouldn't know), but it's still not the nicest way to break up with somebody. And it does mean that it's not entirely unfair to feel like she got dumped for WoW. Yes, she might feel that the problem is with the game -- because he deliberately fostered this impression. (Technically it's even 100% true he likes the game more than her. Isn't it?) That WoW is not even another person just makes the illusionary jealousy even more humiliating.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[jollyreaper]

Maybe if you paid more attention to her character and personality and less to her looks, you'd understand why her boyfriend played WoW all the time.

Just a thought.

Yah, there's the picture of the hot chick with the tag "No matter how good she looks, someone somewhere is sick of her shit." And relationship screwups are rarely ever 100% one person's fault. Who knows how she's like at home, if there's nagging or crazy shit or whatever. But from what I see working with her, I have no idea what her contribution to the situation cold be, she seems great.

The reason why I tend to come down more on the MMO's is because I find them an abominable time-sink and I say this as someone who loves games. And given that I'm a geek, I don't know a lot of people who have flamed out in life due to drugs, alcohol, religion, the usual pitfalls, my dad is the only alcohol example I have. As for ppers, I know a lot of people who have flamed out in life due to personal issues that are manifested by an inability to handle games. Flunked out of college, quit talking to friends, all wrapped up in the game. You can get into arguments about cause and effect and find people who use drugs and alcohol as the same crutch that these people find MMO's to be. But I'm not talking about those other hypothetical people, I'm talking about the ones I've known.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[TriezGamer]

Is that why inside jokes that make no sense to anyone else but get modded +5 Funny?

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Mauzl]

Damn, why didn't I think of that. Its the perfect solution. A breakup you can ENJOY!

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Rakarra]

She did get dumped for WoW. Like you said, it might have been something else, sure. But it wasn't. She got dumped, not because of WoW but because of issues; but this doesn't change the fact instead of telling her something like "I'm sorry, but you're nuts, and I can't take it. I'm leaving" he chose to hide behind something else.

I don't think you can blame WoW or claim it's the game's fault though. Guys and girls have been lying to each other about the real reasons for breakups since the advent of communication.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Twisp]

It's kind of crude, but I think there's a lot of truth to to the saying "Show me a beautiful woman, and I'll show you a guy who's tired of f*cking her"

Maybe it's the warcraft widow's fault for not giving her boyfriend a good reason to log off the game. Maybe it's the boyfriend's fault for not being able to see what he's doing to her. Maybe she's a b*tch or a nag, or he's a hopeless addict or a selfish bastard...

My guess is that it's a little of everything. I rarely find personal relations can be simplified via Occam's Razor. When it comes to interpersonal relations, it's always a combination of a thousand factors...

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[T.E.D.]

Maybe if you paid more attention to her character ...

Let her level her own character. I'm busy.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[fuzzlost]

even ignore their wife/girlfriend's advances because they feel some silly raid obligation or somesuch

Would you say the same thing if the guy was on, say, a softball team that held a practice 2 nights a week, and a game once a week? Honestly, raiding in an MMO is like playing any other team activity that requires a large group of people to come together at a set time. What difference does it make if I don't have to leave my house to play?

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Bloodoflethe]

If the raid were scheduled in a similar fashion, no I would not. However, in guilds that raid infrequently or in PUGs, it is not uncommon to have raids called close to last minute - more like a night out with friends. Not all raiders are hardcore, though you portray it that way.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[fuzzlost]

Ah, I guess so. I didn't think of it like that, I am so used to having scheduled raid times. In that case, yea, I could see issues happening there, but I'm not sure WoW (or any MMO) is to blame, but the person who chooses to PUG constantly instead of spend time with loved ones. (I have scheduled raids, but I spend time with my girlfriend on other nights/before the raids)

Re:I work with a warcraft widow

[Bloodoflethe]

Late post - Damn right (to the sentiment in parentheses).

Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[VoxMagis]

I played GAME for years - Then I realized that GAME was just a massive waste and only losers/basement-dwellers/twits/sexless-wonders play GAME anymore.

Thank goodness I quit GAME! I can't believe anyone still plays GAME anymore! Everyone should quit!

Besides, NEXT-GAME is the best thing ever! I don't even know why GAME makes news anymore!

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Damnit, you made me lose the game. Then again, you lost first. Does that mean I won?

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[holychicken]

DAMN YOU! I haven't lost the game in quite some time. . . now I am probably going to lose the game multiple times a day for the next few months.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[Chris Burke]

NEXT-GAME sucks and so do people who play it. Everyone who has a brain plays OBSCURE-GAME, it's so much better.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[bigstrat2003]

You win!

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[Daswolfen]

I didnt lose The Game, he is on Smackdown now.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[Zekasu]

GAME sucks. I quit GAME and tried NEW-GAME for a few months. It was worse than GAME. Why can't games be like they were ERAS ago? When I was your AGE, all we had were some STICKS and TORCHES to fight dragons with. We had to walk FIFTEEN-MILES to the nearest CAVE.

Kids nowadays don't know anything about games!

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't click that link unless you want to spend the rest of your life as a failure.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[patio11]

Bah, neither NEXT-GAME nor OBSCURE-GAME lets me have sex with Harry Potter in a bunny suit, so I play TERRIBLY-OVERHYPED-NON-GAME.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[Anonymous Coward]

The only way to win is to not lose for the rest of your life. What's sad if that you can never know you won, because then you'd lose.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[brkello]

Ooh, I know, it's Eve!

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[Sage Gaspar]

OBSCURE-GAME went down the tubes after they brought in UNRELATED-CSR and pushed PATCH. I remember when it used to take OBSCENE-TIME to achieve ITEM. Now every dumbass with STILL-OBSCENE-TIME and OBSCURE-GAME-MATH-PHD can achieve it. Fuckin' nubs.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[Chris Mattern]

Or Final Fantasy XI. I coulda written that post with FFXI filling in the blank if I let my inner fanboi loose.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[ab0mb88]

I just looked on Urban Dictionary and I don't see game listed as slang for distro anywhere on there, where do you get your new terms?

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment

[brkello]

I guess that would be true. I still choose Eve since FFXI is a bit dated and I haven't heard anything about it in a long time. But FFXI did have a forum full of elites...though that game was pretty difficult and skill made much more of a difference in that one than any other MMO I have played.

Treadmill

[Anonymous Coward]

Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill ...Oh god I fell asleep and that was all just remnant motor reflexes from playing.

Living in the past

[Krater76]

VideoGamer.com: Do you guys expect a drop off when Warhammer Online comes out?

TC: It's hard to say. We haven't really experienced any meaningful drop-offs in the past.

After how successful the WAR Preview Weekend was and how exciting it was playing a new game with new classes and new areas, I think it's hubris for them to think that they aren't going to lose a lot of their player base. I know my household will have two accounts cancelled, and I know of about 10+ friends who are going to play as well. I don't know if they will cancel their WOW accounts but they won't be logged in.

I think the hardcore and casual PvP'ers will be playing WAR soon after launch if not at launch. The RvR in the preview was fantastic and just like what everyone has always wanted in WOW. It exists in every zone in WAR or you can do scenarios (battlegrounds). There aren't just 4 battlegrounds to play in and you can queue any where at any time and return to where you were when done. It's also possible to get gear without having to rely on a raid. And when you PvP you get XP.

Blizzard is going to try to implement some world PvP in with the expansion but it will probably be too little too late for the fans of PvP. Don't get me wrong, it won't kill WOW by any means, WOW will continue positive growth for a while until there is a contender in Asia, where the bulk of their user accounts exist. But WAR will make them stop and think about their direction. They might finally relent and merge many of their low-population servers. Maybe they'll drop their insane e-sport fetish that they've had for the last couple years and put more RPG into their MMO Arena Game.

Re:Living in the past

[geekoid]

After how successful the NEW GAME Preview Weekend was and how exciting it was playing a new game with new classes and new areas, I think it's hubris for them to think that they aren't going to lose a lot of their player base. I know my household will have two accounts cancelled, and I know of about 10+ friends who are going to play as well. I don't know if they will cancel their WOW accounts but they won't be logged in.

I think the hardcore and casual PvP'ers will be playing NEW GAME soon after launch if not at launch. The RvR in the preview was fantastic and just like what everyone has always wanted in WOW. It exists in every zone in NEW GAME or you can do scenarios (battlegrounds). There aren't just 4 battlegrounds to play in and you can queue any where at any time and return to where you were when done. It's also possible to get gear without having to rely on a raid. And when you PvP you get XP.

Blizzard is going to try to implement some world PvP in with the expansion but it will probably be too little too late for the fans of PvP. Don't get me wrong, it won't kill WOW by any means, WOW will continue positive growth for a while until there is a contender in Asia, where the bulk of their user accounts exist. But NEW GAME will make them stop and think about their direction. They might finally relent and merge many of their low-population servers. Maybe they'll drop their insane e-sport fetish that they've had for the last couple years and put more RPG into their MMO Arena Game.

Re:Living in the past

[Anonymous Coward]

But if people stop playing WoW in the western world who will their asian players sell their gold to?

Re:Living in the past

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, loads of people left for Age Of Conan, then came back to WoW after a short period of time. People were forecasting doom & gloom for /ages/, but it never happened. Arenas are very popular now. I imagine the new PVP zone, Lake Wintergrasp, will be immensely popular as it allows players to accumulate both arena points and honor points. The server I play on is busier than ever. WOTLK will bring even more people back. The way I see it is that Warhammer has 2 months (3 months tops) to get things right, before WOTLK comes out & brings back all of the WoW players that've drifted over the apparently "stagnant" summer.

Re:Living in the past

[Avatar8]

...how exciting it was playing a new game with new classes and new areas, I think it's hubris for them to think that they aren't going to lose a lot of their player base.

You just described the Wrath of the Lich King expansion and the reactions of players in the beta test. Of course new and different is exciting. Sounds like you are an explorer type. I've been playing MMOs since 1997. This sort of statement occurs every time a new MMO comes out. "This is better than that." "It's what the players have always wanted." "They'll see how wrong they are when X people leave."

What really surprised me is that when WoW came out and really did kill UO and EQ, very little was said.

I'm sure Warhammer will appeal to a great many people, probably several thousand people who grew tired of WoW. Yet everything you described has to do with PvP. You do realize that WoW has a great deal more to offer besides PvP, right? Despite what PvP players think, all games do NOT center around PvP and the 20% (if that) of players that participate in PvP.

If Warhammer comes out and attracts every single PvPer off of every single realm in WoW, whoo buddy, will I be celebrating. Finally, general and trade chat will be quieter without idiots ignorant of the local defense channel blathering about the rogue in the AH. If the battlegrounds stand empty and all the PvP realms are shut down, then finally, MY vision of what WoW should be will come true.

From what I've seen of Warhammer (features, trailers, gameplay videos, screenshots) it's just another WoW knockoff trying to appeal to a subset of the MMO population. I'm sure it will do well IF they have high standards of quality and implement it well. I seriously doubt it will threaten WoW.

Re:Living in the past

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also possible to get gear without having to rely on a raid.

It is possible to do this in WoW with out raids.

I think it's hubris for them to think that they aren't going to lose a lot of their player base.

This is what all the game reviewers said about Age of Conan but that never happened.

Maybe they'll drop their insane e-sport fetish that they've had for the last couple years and put more RPG into their MMO Arena Game.

At least someone besides me realizes this.

Re:Living in the past

[0xdeadbeef]

Here's a prediction: WAR's active player base will never exceed 15% of WoW's.

Re:Living in the past

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the hardcore and casual PvP'ers will be playing WAR soon after launch if not at launch. The RvR in the preview was fantastic and just like what everyone has always wanted in WOW. It exists in every zone in WAR or you can do scenarios (battlegrounds). There aren't just 4 battlegrounds to play in and you can queue any where at any time and return to where you were when done. It's also possible to get gear without having to rely on a raid.

So Warhammer's taking all the PVPers? Good, it can have them. I just hope it means a bit more focus in WoW gets back to PVE, which is where the game really is for me.

And when you PvP you get XP.

Damn, guess they won't be taking the people into twinking, then.

Re:Living in the past

[Daswolfen]

You will be back. Same thing happened when LOTRO launched, and the majority of those players came back.

Re:Living in the past

[Daswolfen]

I think thats a little high.. try 5%... that would be 500,000 players...

Re:Living in the past

[Anonymous Coward]

I stopped reading your post, but do you realize that WAR DOES have high end PvE? And that the culminating point of the game is a PvE encounter?

Re:Living in the past

[Krater76]

I *might* come back for WotLK but that would require WAR to be monumentally disappointing. After playing the preview weekend I can say that is definitely not the case. As someone who enjoys PvP more than raiding (I lean 70:30 towards PvP) I can say that that WAR is right up my alley.

Re:Living in the past

[Skuld-Chan]

In my experience every mmo that has challenged WoW's superiority has fallen flat on its face because a good majority of mmo's lack polish.

WoW isn't perfect either, but its easy to learn, controls are responsive and work (good example - don't ever ever ever jump in the water on lineage 2) and it has a broad spectrum of activities to do for most players.

People said the same thing about lotro - from what a few players in my WoW guild who left (and came back) said it was really awesome up to level 30 or so then kind of started to fall apart as content got more sparse and buggy (disclaimer - I've never played lorto, but I had more than one person describe the game this way to me).

We had a few people leave for Conan and come back as well - who felt the same way - great in the first few levels, but started to fall apart in the end game - and that the client was horribly buggy and would crash after a few hours play. (again - haven't played Conan, but at least two different people described the game this way to me).

It would be cool if War was better than WoW - because I'm always looking for something more interesting, but in 4 years I've seen a lot of challengers and "WoW killers" come and go and a lot of players leave and come back.

I'd say these days the entry point for a successful mmo is pretty high because of EQ and WoW really. I get the impression a lot of game studios use the same formulas for crap games we've been given in the past on mmorpg's and are not willing to stick it out for the long run and spend the initial money on the game to make it as good as or better than WoW on day one.

And to me WoW is more about the community. If my RL friends quit playing I would too. If you play a MMO for any other reason you're probably wasting your time because you're not going to get any satisfaction from the experience.

Re:Living in the past

[Stormie]

A bunch of my WoW guildmates were making plans to jump ship to WAR, but the preview weekend basically derailed any momentum they had. The reaction was pretty much unanimous disappointment, we were all very unimpressed with the "feel" of WAR, and it's really way too buggy at the moment to have any confidence that it will be in good shape come release. I expect some of us will still check it out, but any thoughts of it replacing WoW as "the game to play" have evaporated.

It won't be another Age of Conan debacle, but it won't steal significant market share from WoW.

Could be quite good

[Puffy Director Pants]

It seems Illidan is going to be revealing himself based on some sound files that have been extracted from the beta files. Probably put up some quests and maybe some bosses to fight, hopefully for a variety of levels. Shouldn't just be the 70s getting in on the fun. As for Wrath, a lot of the changes and improvements will be quite good, but there will likely still be some growing pains. But flying carpets man! We'll be getting flying carpets!

Re:Could be quite good

[Daswolfen]

Arthas is in WOLK... not Illidan.

Illidan Stormrage has been telling us we are not prepared for the last year, even after we kicked his horny butt and took his nice shiny warglaives :)

Re:Could be quite good

[RogueyWon]

Every week we have the same chorus over voice comms.

Illidan: "You are not prepared"
Us: "Oh yes we are!"

Sadly, I don't think we'll be fighting him much from now on. The plan is to focus exclusively on Sunwell and aim for a Kil'Jaeden kill before WotLK hits. Unfortunately, a lot of the changes announced in this patch are liable to make that harder.

Re:Could be quite good

[ildon]

I'm glad I'm not in your guild. I would seriously gquit if people did that every week.

Race

[iblum]

For me, its a race. Will our guild be able to progress into the next tier of content before this patch comes out and basically brutalizes the guild structure. What happened last time was that a guild I had been raiding with for 6 months all of a sudden lost about a third of its membership. and the rest of them had incredible amounts of trouble ajusting to their new talents. raid attendence became spotty, then non-existent. Once the actual expansion came out, some levelled their characters as fast as humanly possible to the next level cap and started pushing others to do so as well so that they would have friends in the dungeons with them. In the end, though, that guild did not survive the transition.

Re:Race

[Anonymous Coward]

At least you have people to raid with. I can't get rogues to feint, or hunters to FD or disengage, which means I'm standing there, spamming prayer of healing, or popping a shield on some mage who just decided to agro half a hallway in shattered halls. And this is an upper tier "raid" guild I'm in.

I can't even get tanks to pop out of zerker stance because they equate DPS with agro. When on my warrior (I levelled him 1-70 full prot pretty much in instances because I could not find a tank for endgame raiding), I can't get DPS classes to give me 1/2 a second after I pull a mob. I want to get devastates off or smack a mob with a shield so they hate me, and not the cloth wearer who just ate a Khorium filled can of beans and is gleefully holding a lighter to his bum, about to do some five digit crit which will get him knocked off in one hit if I lose agro.

These are not even raid instances like Kara... this is just heroic instances, from ramps on up. Sad thing these days, if I want Kara level gear on new alts I get to 70, I have to hit the BGs, get 150 AV marks, 100 EoTS, 50 WSG, 90 AB, and 325,000 honor. No other way to do it these days, as basic group/raid skills are just not present among most WoW players these days.

Re:Race

[Mauzl]

If you can't get people to follow simple rules, kick them from the group/guild and recruit people with brains. You cannot make a cake out of horseshit. Likewise, you cannot make an achieving raid guild out of kids with ADHD.

Two expansions later, and class balance still sux

[Anonymous Coward]

Its two expansions later, and endgame one to one (not arenas) pvp in BGs, you have two classes that rock, and the rest of everything is HKs for those two classes, unless there is a wide gear disparity.

Doesn't take play skill either... just a macro to repeat a certain sequence of crap until you see HK:Private on your screen.

I'm hoping WAR's PvP isn't as obviously broken.

Me wants Crown of Thorns

[Justabit]

Diablo 3 looks to be a more immediate and better playing game than wow. Not sure if I will take up wow again with expansion but I know 3 months of my life are already put aside for D3, coloured shadows or not. Mebe if they fix Ret paladins I'll come back...

.

No you got it wrong

[Fross]

It's not her who has the character, it's the boyfriend.

I would never go out with someone just cause they had a level 70 though, pah.

Or maybe it's just "you"?

[Moraelin]

You know, if there's one category of people I find mildly amusing, it's the "meh, I played Game X for two years, and thus I have enough experience to say exactly how utterly boring and pointless it is." In fact, only slightly less amusing than the "I played Game X for two years, and then decided it sucks, it's horrible, and only idiots like it." (Admittedly, the OP isn't in the latter category, but you can find plenty of those around.)

Including, yes, such "commentary" as that on Sluggy Freelance.

Here's a thought: If a game held your attention past the, say, 10 to 50 hours an offline game would (with PC ones tending to be the former, and console RPGs... well, at least _used_ to me more toward the latter), then maybe there's _some_ merit in it. If it even kept you there for the "free" month, even playing it at a casual pace, you already saw more content than in 2-3 full price CRPGs nowadays.

There must be _something_ that you must have found interesting or enjoyable there, unless you're trying to tell me that you (and him) are self-hating idiots who punished yourselves for months by doing stuff that was repetitive and boring all along. Obviously not because you were enjoying it, but just, you know, to feel miserable one more month and pay for the privilege.

You're not retarded, are you? I'm guessing you aren't.

Or maybe it's that you'd eventually get bored of anything else, and any other game. Nobody has infinite content, at least until someone invents an AI GM who can pass the Turing test. And nobody has an infinite team of developers, with an infinite total imagination, so each quest and each monster is truly unique. Even then, debatably it's not possible, since there's a finite number of actions and story types that make any sense.

It applies to any other game too. Eventually if you play enough Starcraft or CounterStrike or Oblivion or whatever, guess what? It's starting to repeat itself. Eventually you've seen all maps (or map pieces for games with randomly generated maps), used all weapons, tried all spells, done all quests (if applicable), and that's it. End of the line. It gets repetitive from there. Even before that, exactly in how many ways can you headshot someone in CS or swing a sword at a monster in Oblivion, before it's doing the same things again? Even with a different skin and model on that monster, you're still swinging the same damned sword in the exact same arc, and doing the same block-then-counterattack sequence again. How many times you can zerg rush someone in Starcraft before it's essentially like being an automaton executing the same script over and over again?

At some point it's just time to give up and move on. For some people it's sooner, for others later. But when it stops being entertaining, just move on.

But realize that it's not the game that suddenly qualifies as being sucky, it's just "you". And I'm not saying that in a bad way. It's "you", in as much as you've seen it all, got bored, are no longer interested in it. Fine. Move on.

You didn't suddenly get a revelation about how bad the game is, you just got a revelation about where _your_ limits are. Congrats.

And please lose the preaching. It may look like you just discovered how boring and pointless the game is, and maybe that it's your duty to enlighten others about it. But you only discovered that it just became boring to _you_. I.e., that you're got a human after all. It's not much of an enlightenment to bestow upon anyone else. We were already suspecting that you were human.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[MeanderingMind]

I feel like a moron because I failed to come up with that explanation first. It's blindingly obvious, yet somehow it seems everyone's oblivious to it (including me).

Good show.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[denton420]

Probably the best post I have seen in a WoW "news" topic.

I usually read them to laugh at the ignorant people ranting about many of the things you just made them look stupid for saying ;)

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[Anonymous Coward]

>> We were already suspecting that you were human.
Not me. I never make such a stupid assumption.

You never know.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[Anonymous Coward]

You find it contradictory that people who played game for 2 years would say it is boring, but than again people who played for 2 days you would say that they havent played enough to make a judgment.

So who than is qualified to make a statement if the
game is boring or not, Mr.Catch22?

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[MobyDisk]

I play(ed) Eve online: I paid for 3 months, played it for a few hours a week and found it boring. I logged-on now and then to see what was up, download the latest patch etc. 3 months later, a friend of mine had me join his corp and so I renewed for another 3 months. I logged on to join the corp, and haven't played since.

So I've been playing a game for 6 months that I find boring. That's how it happens.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[trytoguess]

I believe the counter argument to posts like this is something like "I hated the game but I stayed on because of the community." Usually things then go into questioning whether or not the community can be considered part of gameplay.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm just as irritated by the "I played such-and-such for X years and now I hate it" crowd, but what you assume in your analysis just isn't always the case.

ESPECIALLY with these new MMORPGs coming out that require you to be level 70--or god forbid, level 80--just to begin playing the game, I find it pretty easy to understand that people can invest tons of time into the game before realizing that it's not all that fun.

Some people don't play the game for the content; they play for competition. In the only MMORPG I ever played, I rushed as fast as I could through the cheesy, stupid world so that I could get to end-game player versus player, which I spent months studying: watching videos of successful players, reading about tactics, etc.. That's what interests me. Unfortunately, when I got there, it only took 3 or 4 weeks to realize that the game really didn't work like I thought it did, and so I quit.

I didn't quit smoking, I didn't stop a heroin addiction, I just literally realized that the game wasn't about competition of skill, it was about who had grinded out the best gear and random die rolls. The second I realized that, the game no longer had any allure.

On the other hand, I still play Starcraft. I'm a 250APM player at about a C level on ICCup, which is fairly decent.

I've never played a single campaign mission.

Not everyone cares about "content". Sometimes you need to experience how the game really works at the top of the food chain to see that you don't like it. It's true. It happens. And yes, the whole grind up to that point is for: self-hating idiots who punished [them]selves for months by doing stuff that was repetitive and boring all along.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[iregisteredjustforth]

Great post. I hate how people play a game intensively for months and months, and then suddenly have a "realisation" that the game "sucks" or "sucked all along" because it can't keep them entertained even though they've played it for 1000 hours.

People complain about the MMO monthly fee but they are in fact very cheap considering how many hours your average players gets for his money compared to normal games. And for that you get many many times the content (although admittedly maybe not as high quality) of a normal game, even CRPG.

No one is foring you to play, simply because you played a few thousand hours and got yourself bored of the game, does not mean it sucks nor is a waste of time for anyone else - Some people with more commitments may take years to play what you played through in 3 months.

It seems everyone loses perspective when talking about games, which are far more subjective than people often give them credit.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[BuhDuh]

There must be _something_ that you must have found interesting or enjoyable there....

The cybersex of course!

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[brkello]

Just save this to your hard drive and copy and post it as the start of every WoW article. Maybe people will actually talk about the content of the articles rather than bashing the game.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[immcintosh]

Eventually if you play enough Starcraft or CounterStrike or Oblivion or whatever, guess what? It's starting to repeat itself. Eventually you've seen all maps (or map pieces for games with randomly generated maps), used all weapons, tried all spells, done all quests (if applicable), and that's it.

While I agree with much of what you're saying, I think you're missing some of the point. There are plenty of games out there that people can play their entire lives, regularly, and still enjoy. Usually this is because of some elegant quality of the mechanics of the game that keeps something in the experience "fresh" regardless of how much it has been played. For me, Go is an example. The subtle permutations of play and territory capture against opponents who always have a unique style really never gets old. As for computer games, again for me, Nethack is a good example. I've been playing that game regularly for over a decade and I still enjoy it thoroughly. Starcraft, I think, is a good example of a more modern game that many people have been playing extensively since its release and still enjoy.

The problem with WoW, specifically, though it has its many fine qualities, is that the "hook" of the game isn't the fundamental game itself. For almost everybody I know, the real hook of WoW is one of the "meta-games." Things like gear progression, level progression, PvP ladders, stuff like that. To put it another way, if everybody had the same gear, at the same level, with all the same skills, there would be VERY little reason to play WoW. And the problem with the progression meta-game is its fundamentally limited by the amount of content available. Thus, the complaint that it "gets old and repetitive" in ways that many other games simply don't.

My two cents anyway.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[Anonymous Coward]

What you have been doing is paying for an account for 6 months with minimal game play. While some may try to play 24x7x365, I think saying that you played for 6 months would normally be interpreted as playing almost every day for several hours a day. We obviously can't come up with a number, but certainly saying "I logged-on now and then" or "3 months later, a friend of mine had me join his corp" likely disqualifies you as "playing" for months.

Mij

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"?

[Moraelin]

I understand what you're saying, but you're not exactly a typical gamer. I'm not saying that in a bad way, btw. The vast majority of people will not play _any_ game, Nethack included, for a decade.

So basically you're already atypical _and_ it applies to only _one_ game. It's one game, not even a genre or anything, which matches your taste that well. It's not even enough to make a statistic.

For a few other people, their one game is WoW. Or EQ or UO or whatever. Some people did play UO for a decade, btw. They're atypical too, but happen to have different tastes.

As I was saying in another message, you can't really proclaim your own peculiar tastes and gaming habits to be some kind of platinum standard for all humanity. Again, I'm not implying anything bad about your tastes in games, far from it. I'm just saying you can't about other people's either. So you're the kind which values a particular kind of mechanics that much. Well, I'm happy that you figured out your niche. But other people value some kind of plot and quests more. Some value graphics above all else. (I can't say I understand them, but then they probably don't understand me either.) Some like entirely other kinds of mechanics than you do. Etc.

I can't play wow anymore

[mrjimorg]

My wife got us into the 3 day Warhammer beta last weekend and since then I've found that playing wow just annoys the heck out of me. Here are the reasons why:
1. Quests that require that you run for long periods of time. Who thought this was a good idea?! I've never liked this, but now I've lost all tolerance for it
2. There's an overall lack of theme or purpose. My first quest is to kill sprites, then boars, then harpies, then turtles, then orcs.... wait, I'm playing an orc. It seems like your people are fighting everyone and nobody. I want a common theme for why I'm doing what I'm doing.
3. I was ganked this morning by a 70 mage. Really honorable killing a level 30 who was fighting at the time. I don't know why I was never ganked in warhammer, but I wasn't. But every time I died I felt like I was killed honorably.
4. Noone cares about the world pvp in wow (I know I don't) and the BGs are about who has the highest tier gear. Not at all fun anymore.

I'm not claiming that warhammer is going to kill wow- I don't think it will. Nor am I claiming that warhammer is even better (it could use additional features). But, I can say that I just can't play wow any more- just like I can't stand to play pacman anymore.

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't know about the others, but number 2 is easy to explain...start reading the quest text. The story's there, not Blizzard's fault if you ignore it. And number 3 might be related to the game still being in beta. I'm sure as the game matures (read the gankers level up), you'll get your share of it.

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[Daswolfen]

2. There's an overall lack of theme or purpose. My first quest is to kill sprites, then boars, then harpies, then turtles, then orcs.... wait, I'm playing an orc. It seems like your people are fighting everyone and nobody. I want a common theme for why I'm doing what I'm doing.

See next answer...

3. I was ganked this morning by a 70 mage. Really honorable killing a level 30 who was fighting at the time. I don't know why I was never ganked in warhammer, but I wasn't. But every time I died I felt like I was killed honorably.

If you want to enjoy content and not get ganked.. then you should not have rolled on a PVP server. If you had rolled PVE, you could have enjoyed the race to open up AQ and the progression of Sunwell. On a PVP server, its just gankfest central.

Try rolling on a PVE server, and read the quests and see how they fit in the lore, then maybe you can make a judgment.

YOU ARE NOT PREPARED....

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Quests that require that you run for long periods of time. Who thought this was a good idea?! I've never liked this, but now I've lost all tolerance for it

I will agree, I've never been a fan of quests that make you run to the next zone just to talk to someone and then run back only to be sent in the other direction to talk to someone else... but eh, I can live with it as long as I can put it on auto-run for a little bit and grab myself a snack.

2. There's an overall lack of theme or purpose. My first quest is to kill sprites, then boars, then harpies, then turtles, then orcs.... wait, I'm playing an orc. It seems like your people are fighting everyone and nobody. I want a common theme for why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Now, I disagree here. For me, the game would be hellishly boring if everything was centered around fighting the horde. I like doing all manner of different things in the game rather than fixating on one particular theme or purpose.

3. I was ganked this morning by a 70 mage. Really honorable killing a level 30 who was fighting at the time. I don't know why I was never ganked in warhammer, but I wasn't. But every time I died I felt like I was killed honorably.

I know everyone's going to tell you about PVE servers, but I know it's not as simple as that. I spent two years playing on PVP servers because that's where my friends played, because that's where their friends played. Still, in the end we did all jump ship to a PVE server and we're much happier for it.

You're also likely to be told that it's only a matter of time before the ganking situation gets as bad in Warhammer. Given that I've seen ganking go from a minor, occasional inconvenience to a massive problem in WoW, I'm inclined to believe that will be the case.

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[gweihir]

Those who play on a PvP realm, get what they deserve....

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[Wowlapalooza]

1. If you have knowledge of the quests ahead of time, you can usually gang them up and do them in a very efficient manner (having lots of bag space helps, for collection quests). People who are running around a lot to do quests just haven't optimized their questing. Note that some of the "go to the next zone over and talk to so-and-so" quests are specifically designed to make you explore the next zone. This is for the benefit of folks that are too clueless to realize that they've outlevelled their current zone. Just save those until you're about ready to move on. Again, it's just a matter of optimization. We Slashdot geeks are all about optimization...

2. I agree, some of the "kill ten rats" kinds of quests seem rather pointless, but on the other hand they get you experience faster, because you get XP from the kills in addition to the XP for turning in the quest. So think of those quests as fast track, and the relatively-non-violent "pick 10 flowers" types as slow mode. As for orcs killing orcs, why not? In real life, humans have killed humans for all of human history. "Your" orcs are the "good" ones; "their" orcs are the "bad" ones and deserving of death. I see no thematic issue. As for quests not being part of a storyline arc, you can't really expect every quest to advance the storyline. WoW's storyline is quite expansive and convoluted, more so than other MMORPGs, but the "storyline" quests are still only a fraction of the overall quests that are required to level.

3. As others have commented, this is de rigeur on a pvp server. Why did you roll on a pvp server if you didn't like this kind of thing? Note that for a mere $25 can you transfer to a pve server (but not the other way around, so you would never be able to go back). Then you could quest and level and farm in relative peace.

4. At 70, the BGs are mostly about gear, but individual skill, and teamwork, are still very important. In the lowbie brackets, you see a much wider variety of gear, skills and teamwork, and it can be quite fun. I have a number of toons that I BG with in various brackets, some of them twinks (e.g. my level 19 paladin flagrunner with over 2K unbuffed health), some of them total scrubs, and many in between. Battlegrounds are as fun as you make them.

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[malf-uk]

I doubt ganking in Warhammer Online will get as bad as it is in WoW.

If a high level player enters a low level zone and gets flagged for RvR, they're turned into a chicken which can be killed easily by any low level player.

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[brkello]

And what does that have to do with the articles posted? If you don't like playing WoW, don't. Don't read the articles about WoW. Don't post in forums about WoW. People like you are strange.

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

Those who play on a PvP realm, get what they deserve....

you pussy carebear :)

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[T.E.D.]

Those who play on a PvP realm, get what they deserve....

The Kid: "He had it coming, right, Will?"
Munny: "We've all got it coming, Kid."
(The Unforgiven)

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[boxxertrumps]

i find PvP servers more fun and exciting than PvE ones by lightyears. People who whine and complain that they "don't want to fight people when i'm trying to farm ITEM X!!!" don't realize that the motes are so much sweeter when you have to go through that rogue and priest to get them.

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[immcintosh]

I believe there's a system in Warhammer that turns high level players who try to gank into chickens. I mean, literally, little chickens that run around and can't do anything. I haven't played though, so I don't know the exact details.

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[Skadet]

Sort of. . . I think it's disingenous to say that you deserve to be ganked if you roll on a PvP realm. What if you like world PvP if you have a fair chance? You shouldn't be forced to roll PvE just because you don't want to be camped by 3 70s in Hillsbrad. WoW needs a global reputation system similar to Fable's. Do dishonorable stuff, and NPCs dislike you more and more. Vendors charge more. Repairs cost more. Etc. How much ganking would you do if your repair bill went up 10% every 10 lowbies you ganked? The system is broken, and Blizz doesn't care.

Re:I can't play wow anymore

[gweihir]

I agree that a reputation system would be nice. However I do not think Blizzard does not care. They probably just have no idea to implement such a system in a way that meeds their high quality standards and so that it is very hard to circumvent (as the ganker trash will certainly try to do).

Re:Two expansions later, and class balance still s

[Anonymous Coward]

Likewise, that way everyone who gets a stiffy from PVP will leave WoW and it'll be left to more intelligent, civilized players.

Am I doing this right?

[Mister_Stoopid]

No, you're both wrong. The best game ever is and always will be STARCRAFT

Friends don't let friends play WoW

[LrdDimwit]

True story: For awhile I roomed with a guy who plays WoW. Since the apartment's rather small, we both had our computers in the living room. He would come home, start playing, then go to sleep. Every day. But that's not the worst of it; no, what he had to do to keep up with his friends is the bad part. See, they played some when he wasn't on; in order to keep up, therefore, he had to play when they weren't on.

This apparently was too much for him; occasionally, I'd hear him say "This is getting kind of old." Not old enough for him to stop playing, of course. No, that would be madness. So then a couple hours later he literally cries out in agony "Oh god, this is SO BOOORING!" -- and then he keeps playing.

After the second time he did this, I couldn't contain myself anymore. "Good GOD, man!" Totally oblivious, he turns to me, and he says "Huh?"

"Listen to yourself talk, man!" And he kind of did a double take for a second, then he says "Wow. Uh. That was bad." So I asked him why he didn't just -- stop. And he explains about having to stay at his friends' level, and how he needed to level X skill but had to grind Y in order to grind Z so he could grind X.

It wasn't a game anymore. World of Warcraft had become his second job. One that he was paying $15 a month for the privilege of being allowed to do.

Re:Friends don't let friends play WoW

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually that's true.
The 'discovery' part of the game ended after the first 4~6 months of the first WoW.
After that is just grinding.
PvE has always been grindindig finalized to grind more (simple instances --> herder instances).
First kind of PvP was grinding (BGs and raking system).
Second kind of PvP is only based on the combo factor. No strategy.
Again boring because to PvP you need good gear so now is PvE like (BGs gear --> Arena Gear). But then when you achieve semi full Arena set (around 1700 rating) you strat getting bored to get to 2050 and 2200 rating.

Actually this game will be over when a better online game will be released (like Starcraft or Diablo III).

Achievements?

[feyd-rautha]

I think that for the most part you hit the nail on the head. There's a new trend developing in games, however, where people will *hate* the game and stick it out to the bitter end to "earn" achievements -- especially if said achievements are publicly displayable. In fact in brings a whole new meaning to MMORPG's and "the grind".

Agreed. It's time to stop playing WOW

[Deliveranc3]

The younger generation of nerds needs to know what women look like, we need to set an example. So!

Youtube to the rescue.

And of Course ... enjoy.

Re:Two expansions later, and class balance still s

[Mauzl]

Scissor: Paper is fine, nerf rock.

That's a different topic, but here goes

[Moraelin]

You find it contradictory that people who played game for 2 years would say it is boring, but than again people who played for 2 days you would say that they havent played enough to make a judgment.

Now that's another funny category: the people who feel that their own tastes are the gold standard, and are qualified to tell everyone else what they should like.

Some people like Pepsi, some people like Coke, and some people don't like either. Would you presume to tell them what their taste should be like? Some people like chinese food, some don't. Some people like things very spicy (a couple of coleague are real big fans of extra-hot chili sauce), some of us like it milder. Most people around here seem to be into dry wines, me, I like my wine sweet. Would you presume to tell me that there's something wrong with my tongue? And then there's stuff like favourite colours or clothes. Now there's some variability. Etc.

Then, pray tell, what kind of confusion of mind would drive someone to a conclusion like, basically, "if 10 million people love WoW, and I don't, then I'm right and they're all idiots and need to be enlightened about how boring their favourite game is"?

Again, maybe it isn't WoW, it's "you". It doesn't match _your_ subjective taste. Maybe you're not much into MMOs. Maybe there's something else about it you don't like. But realize that it doesn't say much about anyone else. It's ok. It's not some personal failure or anything. You don't have to fit in with some group or anything. But the same applies viceversa too.

But again, it might be... _polite_ to lose the preaching. You're not the golden standard in game tastes, nor the yardstick by which humanity is measured. It's entirely possible that someone else loves what you hated, and don't need your enlightenment at all.

Re:That's a different topic, but here goes

[Cornflake917]

I've never seen so much common sense in a post, it...just.. doesn't make sense!

Seriously, I've played WoW for several months I got bored of it after getting close to the level cap. Even though I got bored, I know I could have made things more interesting by joining a guild the fit my playing style more, but I decided to move on anyways. I never really thought that the game sucked, and after playing other MMO's and RPG's, it really puts things in perspective about how much of a quality game WoW is. I still don't play WoW, and I probably won't play it more than a month or so after checking out the new expansion. That being said, I still think it's a great game. So many people think they can make the world's greatest game, and I think this type of ego is what makes them say "X sucks" instead of "I got burnt out from playing X to much." Since I've gotten into game development as a hobby I believe that until you actually have to sit down and implement your ideas you won't realize how difficult game development is.

Re:That's a different topic, but here goes

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that's another funny category: the people who feel that their own tastes are the gold standard, and are qualified to tell everyone else what they should like.

  You?

But again, it might be... _polite_ to lose the preaching. You're not the golden standard in game tastes, nor the yardstick by which humanity is measured. It's entirely possible that someone else loves what you hated, and don't need your enlightenment at all.

  Yours?

  Your Report Card
  Reading: Fail.
  Comprehension: Fail.
  Answering Question: Fail.
  Verbal Diarrhea: Pass
  Mod Points: Win!

    -Do no pass - do not collect 6th grade diploma.

 

So basically you had a false assumption?

[Moraelin]

ESPECIALLY with these new MMORPGs coming out that require you to be level 70--or god forbid, level 80--just to begin playing the game, I find it pretty easy to understand that people can invest tons of time into the game before realizing that it's not all that fun.

Err... what? I'm pretty sure I began playing WoW (and EQ, LOTRO, COH, etc) right at level 1.

In fact, that's the bulk of the game: the levels 1 to 69. (Or 1 to 49 in COH, 1 to 79 in EQ2, etc.) Some 99% of the actual game content is in those levels. And you're perfectly equipped to play that game at any level along the way.

Some people don't play the game for the content; they play for competition. In the only MMORPG I ever played, I rushed as fast as I could through the cheesy, stupid world so that I could get to end-game player versus player, which I spent months studying: watching videos of successful players, reading about tactics, etc.. That's what interests me. Unfortunately, when I got there, it only took 3 or 4 weeks to realize that the game really didn't work like I thought it did, and so I quit.

Yes, that seems to be a popular mis-conception, that it's somehow a competition to the top. So people try to skip the actual content, just so they can willy-wave about having a level 70 and get stuck in the endgame grind. Some even use a bot or pay for power-leveling so they don't even have to see the actual game they're skipping.

Unfortunately that's every bit like paying someone to watch the LOTR trilogy for you, just so you can come back and see the ending scene. Over and over again. And imagine that it was some kind of achievement to be there.

Levels and loot are actually the props there. With the level also serving the additional roles of (A) gently guiding you about in which order you're supposed to go through the story, and (B) giving your spells and abilities one by one, and giving you some time to experiment with them and let it sink in. You know, as opposed to just giving you 60 icons and dumping you at the end boss from day 1.

I didn't quit smoking, I didn't stop a heroin addiction, I just literally realized that the game wasn't about competition of skill, it was about who had grinded out the best gear and random die rolls. The second I realized that, the game no longer had any allure.

So, basically, you played a game only because you thought it's a completely different kind of game, quit when it turned out that it wasn't what you _imagined_ after all.

It's not even a WoW thing. All MMOs are about the same things: getting XP and gear. And it's not some competition with a finishing line and a gold medal for whoever finishes it first. Everyone can get there eventually. The game in any MMO is the road, not the finish line. The guy who finished it first, well, is simply the first guy who has no more actual game to play.

Well, that's fine too. Not everyone likes the same things, so it stands to reason that some people would be into entirely different genres.

But surely you realize that all that happened there is that you shafted yourself. You took an assumption that just wasn't true, and it was just your own assumption. The game didn't tell you to do that. And then inflicted some grind upon yourself based on just that assumption. It's not very different from, say, being the guy who thinks aids is already curable and fucks around without a condom, then has an unpleasant surprise eventually. It wasn't the game that failed you, it was your own wrong assumptions that did.

Mind you, you do have some sympathy for that ordeal, but nevertheless you shafted your own self with that basing a multi-month action on nothing more than a wild incorrect assumption.

Not everyone cares about "content". Sometimes you need to experience how the game really works at the top of the food chain to see that you don't like it. It's true. It happens. And yes,

Re:So basically you had a false assumption?

[Anonymous Coward]

ESPECIALLY with these new MMORPGs coming out that require you to be level 70--or god forbid, level 80--just to begin playing the game, I find it pretty easy to understand that people can invest tons of time into the game before realizing that it's not all that fun.

Err... what? I'm pretty sure I began playing WoW (and EQ, LOTRO, COH, etc) right at level 1.

In fact, that's the bulk of the game: the levels 1 to 69. (Or 1 to 49 in COH, 1 to 79 in EQ2, etc.) Some 99% of the actual game content is in those levels. And you're perfectly equipped to play that game at any level along the way.

If that's what you think: fine. I disagree with you, and I don't play games to accrue exp and gear. I play them to compete in player vs. player combat. Not player vs. player gear accrual.

So for me, the game starts at level 70 (or 80) when I have the full skillset. It's a crapshoot to compete at any level where you don't have your class' full skillset at your disposal. Some people actually like twinking at level 19. I don't know why they like to restrict themselves to about 10 total character abilities, but they do it. I'm not one of those people.

Some people don't play the game for the content; they play for competition. In the only MMORPG I ever played, I rushed as fast as I could through the cheesy, stupid world so that I could get to end-game player versus player, which I spent months studying: watching videos of successful players, reading about tactics, etc.. That's what interests me. Unfortunately, when I got there, it only took 3 or 4 weeks to realize that the game really didn't work like I thought it did, and so I quit.

Yes, that seems to be a popular mis-conception, that it's somehow a competition to the top.

No, that's not my misconception at all. I'm not racing anyone to 70. I want to be level 70 so that I have my full skillset. Furthermore, since I don't PvE at all, I have to rely on PvP rewards for gear. You can't get a whole lot of rewards anywhere below 70, unless you want to play 60s AV or get stomped in 60-69 wsg/ab.

So people try to skip the actual content, just so they can willy-wave about having a level 70 and get stuck in the endgame grind. Some even use a bot or pay for power-leveling so they don't even have to see the actual game they're skipping.

Unfortunately that's every bit like paying someone to watch the LOTR trilogy for you, just so you can come back and see the ending scene. Over and over again. And imagine that it was some kind of achievement to be there.

Levels and loot are actually the props there. With the level also serving the additional roles of (A) gently guiding you about in which order you're supposed to go through the story, and (B) giving your spells and abilities one by one, and giving you some time to experiment with them and let it sink in. You know, as opposed to just giving you 60 icons and dumping you at the end boss from day 1.

Once again: that's just what you think. If you've been privileged enough to read a good story like LoTR, you should know that WoW's storyline sucks. The zones are random, the quests are random. It's played out cliche "fetch-for-me" and "kill-for-me" quests. You might like that corny stuff. I don't. I like player vs. player combat, and I like to participate in player vs. player combat when both players have fully developed characters. Not twinked level 19s that have 10 total abilities.

I didn't quit smoking, I didn't stop a heroin addiction, I just literally realized that the game wasn't about competition of skill, it was about who had grinded out the best gear and random die rolls. The second I realized that, the game no longer had any allure.

So, basically, you played a game only because you thought it's a complete

The PvP part of the game is over

[Anonymous Coward]

As sson as anohter online PvP games gets out the PvPers will leave this.
All the balance is in
1) Rock/Paper/Scissors
2) Luck (RNG random number generator)
The problem is that the R/P/S approach works with high number of opponents (read: bg or better), but when you're playing a 2on2 R/P/S is too much imbalanced.
The Luck factor is what pisses me off. The random part of damage (and the crit) is another thing that doesn't work against fast games. The so called average damage is true but after log time, not in a 30 seconds game (2on2).

Again, the next balanced online FPS/strategy will make all WoW PvPers flee.

So Much better with friends

[grendel03]

Most online games are boring to me without friends. I've played WoW on and off for the last 2 years, for me it's not about PvP the PvE is amazing, zones become more then just a map. I like how quests are written and designed to build you up for the next area. The most fun I've had with WoW is when a friend and I started new characters and only played together with them. We never got very far and yea the quests were the same as last time but it's still fun.

I recently started playing EVE, I absolutely enjoy how brutal the game can be but also how rewarding. It's also interesting how much power player corps. (guilds) can attain, and how much of the market is player driven. Killing a NPC pirate doesn't give you a random chance of getting a battleship, you have to find someone who is selling it.

Why not join him?

[Moraelin]

You know, it might sound crazy, but why doesn't she try joining him? Best case scenario, they discover a common topic and interest, and they live happily ever after. Worst case, well, he discovers that he can't escape her even in WoW, gives up WoW.

As a personal anecdote, I present my parents: they're both complete nerds, but otherwise they're as close to polar opposite personalities as you can get together without causing a paradox. They weren't happy together. In fact, as far as I can tell, they only stayed together so they can make each other miserable and repay old perceived injustices.

Then in their old-ish age, I managed to get them both addicted to WoW. It was an uphill battle to convince them to even try it, but from there they both went addicted scarily quickly.

Well, what do you know? They have a common topic for the first time since they debated naming my brother. They talk about quests, raids, the best zone to farm for some enchanting reagent, best tactics against some boss, whether dad's hunter's new cat is better than a ravager (well, it looks better), or whether mom's new mage should spec for ice or for arcane to level up. It's heartwarming, lemme tell you.

They _do_ stuff together. E.g., boost each other's alts and whatnot, or help each other farm for some recipe drop that's only found on some elite.

Oh, they still bicker all the time, because their personalities and play styles are still almost polar opposites in-game too. But funnily enough, this time they don't take it seriously, because it's just a game. Whereas IRL silly things like "that time your father did X" or "that time your mom didn't let me do Y" would sometimes strain their relationship some more for a year or two, here "your mom aggroed the whole bloody room" or "your dad always sits and drinks after each fight, while my fury bar goes down" is mentioned once and then promptly forgotten.

They've heard it all before, though

[Moraelin]

Well, I hope you realize that we've heard the same "doom-and-gloom as soon as NEXT-GAME launches" predictions half a dozen times before, and nothing spectacular happened.

"As soon as LOTRO launches, I'm cancelling my WoW account for good! And so does everyone I know! That'll make Blizzard think twice!" Sounds familiar? There was about a month or two of that talk non-stop in my guild on WoW before LOTRO launched. Turns out that it didn't do jack squat for WoW subscriptions.

And before that it was various other games. Dungeons and Dragons Online, for example. Now that was supposed to finally bring all the tabletop goodness to the online folks, and finally nail WoW's coffin. Heh. Now that's a game which failed to deliver.

Or Vanguard. "OMG, it's going to be the opposite of everything that sucked about WoW!" Actually, it was the opposite of everything that kept people playing WoW. I guess that's what happens when you listen to people who've played WoW for 2-3 years and finally didn't conclude "ok, I'm getting bored of it, no hard feelings, I just wasn't built to play the same thing for ever", but rather, "OMG, everything about WoW sucks and only idiots like it." So they presented everything that they previously liked and had previously kept them there, as some abominable crime against humanity, and something that sucks more ass than the vacuum toilets on the Soyuz. And the devs of Vanguard listened. Heh. Boy, I'm sure they're proud of their choice of people to listen to.

And afterwards it was AOC. We've had people bleating for a year about how AOC is going to be TEH GRATEST THING EVAR, and eat Blizzard's lunch. I don't think Blizzard even noticed a dip in their subscriptions there. Most of those who had cancelled their account to play AOC, went back and reactivated it before it was even really deactivated.

Or Tabula Rasa. "OMG, it's Lord British, and he's like sooo smart and creative, and he's making this totally different game, without grind, and which will please both MMORPG-ers and FPS-ers and strategists, and will hand Blizzard their arse to them!" Heh. Nope, didn't come anywhere near Blizzard's collective arse.

So I'd take all these predictions with a grain of salt. _Maybe_ WAR will be all that. _Probably_ it won't. We'll just have to wait and see.

As for bulk of subscriptions, last I've seen some numbers, almost half the WoW subscriptions are from the western world. Sure, technically more than half are from Asia, but it's not like it's exactly a niche in the west either. And I don't think that that western part of their subscriptions has taken a dip because of some other game launch yet either.

Re:They've heard it all before, though

[Krater76]

As soon as LOTRO launches...
Dungeons and Dragons Online, for example. ...
Vanguard. ...
AOC. ...
Tabula Rasa.

I think the problem with most of those games is that they are primarily PvE and grind-heavy. AoC is probably the exception but has really floundered on content at their level cap. Having to buy a new computer to play some of these because of their graphics was a downfall too (AoC, definitely Vanguard). D&D was just so-so. But all of that was predicted in commercial and beta tester reviews. Read the DDO & Tabula Rasa reviews from slashdot. Not pretty but were mostly just rehashes of other earlier reviews. And while Vanguard wasn't reviewed here just check out a few of the articles that covered the game before and immediately after release. After seeing those did anyone really think they were going to hold casual gamers interest?

I'm not saying that WAR is going to become the 10 million+ juggernaut that WOW has, but I will say that, baring major problems, it will become the premier PvP MMO that people play. Since WOW has already softened PvE'ers up to the idea of PvP, I think a lot of people are more willing to play a primarily PvP game especially since they've removed the ability to gank lower-level players. I would love to hear the preorder numbers for WAR. I imagine that one of the most anticipated MMOs of the last few years is going to have a very good launch.

According to mmochart.com there are about 4.5 million North America and European players for WOW. As much as I like WOW and have played it for years, I do feel that they are going to see a major hit in those markets but will probably continue to 'grow' due to Asia. Until WAR offers an Asia subscription they aren't ever going to flirt with WoW numbers. And besides, do they need to? With 500,000 subscribers I think any game would be considered a success and continue to get updated.

Re:They've heard it all before, though

[Moraelin]

Well, I'm not saying that WAR will necessarily fail, or anything. Just that I see why the Blizzard guy was saying that. When you've heard people crying "Wolf!" half a dozen times, and there was no wolf after all, you tend to be skeptical when it happens yet again. That's all, really.

NEW! Strawberry Crack!

[Il128]

These games (not just W.O.W.) are meant to be addictive. The sole purpose of these games is to get as many people paying $15 a month as possible. People talk about "friends" keeping them in these games but what really keeps them in the game is the Skinner Box effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_box A great many people get seriously angry when the comparison to Skinner Boxes is made but the truth is there are MMRPGs that do not use the Skinner Box System (Guild Wars is one) because they are not monthly fee based and they are not nearly as successful as games that do use the Skinner Box effect (W.O.W. does use the Skinner Box system). It isn't about friends or story lines or anything at all, except an addictive rewards system.

Re:NEW! Strawberry Crack!

[jjohnson]

Talk of addictive MMOs reminds me of the cult scare of the 80s: lots of huffing and puffing about addiction mechanisms that trap people, but little recognition that such addictions are almost always short-term. WoW's average player lifespan is around three months; similarly, cults like Hare Krishnas and Scientologists have average memberships lasting a couple years at most. Some last much longer, of course, but most drop it after a short period once the basic addiction mechanism starts failing--witness the number of ex-WoW players talking about how the grind is boring.

Re:NEW! Strawberry Crack!

[Il128]

I'm not sure where you get your stats from. Aren't you minimizing the main point?

The people who make MMRPGs want everyone who even tries the game to become addicted. Is that a true statement or not?

Re:NEW! Strawberry Crack!

[jjohnson]

The people who make MMRPGs want everyone who even tries the game to become addicted. Is that a true statement or not?

Yes, it's a true statement, but you leave out an important qualification, namely that the addiction they're trying to trigger is almost always short-term, measurable in months. In other words, the addiction is no more dangerous than the 40-60 hours you might spend playing Tom Clancy's latest FPS.

We've been trained by the hysteria of the war on drugs to regard addiction like it's quicksand: something from which you almost never escape. In point of fact, even drug addiction follows a somewhat predictable cycle that has a statistically clear endpoint (sometimes death, but more often than is acknowledged by the media or law enforcement, sometimes simply quitting).

So... what's after that?

[Khurath]

Way back when, I played the hell out of Warcraft. The original one, Orcs & Humans, where you had to left-click twice to do anything and could only select four units at a time. Still a great time, as are War2, War2x, War3, and War3x. I fell in love with the universe at some point, probably the point where I realized that sheep exploded when you clicked on them too much. There was a bizarre personality that other games seemed to lack, and it was all entwined with wonderfully polished gameplay.

I've dabbled a bit in WoW, but am not sure I'm keen enough on it to play it all the way to see the end. With that in mind, what I'd like to know from somebody who's played lots of WoW is where the hell the story goes after this.

War3x set up a few major antagonists for the series' future. Arthas and Illidan were the major baddies, along with some minor baddies like Kael'thas' Blood Elves and Vashj's Naga. The latter two, to my limited knowledge, can already be killed in WoW. The Burning Crusade allows you to kill Illidan and now Wrath of the Lich King will go up to freakin' Arthas himself as a boss.

I'm admittedly a bit bitter that I feel like huge chunks of story are being told in a game that I don't really enjoy that much, but I can get over that. What I'm more curious about is who, if anyone, they're setting up for a theoretical War4 (and gods help them if there isn't a War4!). The WoW people are about to kill off the last major antagonist that I'm familiar with, so who's going to step up next? Or is it just going to go back to Alliance v. Horde (which is apparently now the Forsaken too)? Another demonic invasion, assuming you guys haven't already worked your way up the Burning Legion's chain of command? Inquiring minds want to know!