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YouTube Reposts Anti-Scientology Videos
Ian Lamont writes "YouTube has reposted anti-Scientology videos and reinstated suspended YouTube accounts after receiving thousands of apparently bogus DCMA take-down notices. Four thousand notices were sent to YouTube last Thursday and Friday by American Rights Counsel, LLC. After YouTube users responded with counter-notices, many of the videos were reposted. It turns out that the American Rights Counsel had no copyright claim on the videos, and the group may not even exist, although the text of the DCMA notices have been linked to a Wikipedia editor. While filing a false DMCA notice is a criminal offense, prosecution in these cases rarely comes about."
This isn't one count, it's about four thousand counts of fraud. I'm sure that complying with the takedown notices cost Google a non-trivial amount of money, too.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I'm glad that the YouTube users fought back.
We really need to make people aware of the criminal actions of this cult.
No sig for the moment.
Is there some kind of rule that if it's in a hyperlink, it's spelled 'DCMA', but if it's plain text, it's 'DMCA'? And good on YouTube for reposting the content.
Unpleasantries.
While filing a false DMCA notice is a criminal offense, prosecution in these cases rarely comes about.
Sounds like this would be a good time to start.
I can't think of a nicer group of people to sue.
"Kittens give Morbo gas!"
I knew they claimed to be a religion, but I wasn't aware that Scientologists now claimed to be a "race"...
Was this done to claim additional protections?
No sig for the moment.
Great - another 600 bigoted posts about Scientology.
Scientology is a great, true faith. But you guys don't know anything about faith, do you.
I'm an atheist, and while I think the middle eastern religions are pretty horrid, Scientology is pure insanity. Xenu? DC10s? Thetans?
LOL, psyco.
Do races get protections? Unless they claim some first people's type of race (i.e. the Thetos or whatever they're called were here before us all), I imagine they wouldn't.
Otherwise, I will be claiming protections as well. I am a member of the human race, the Canadian race and I was shortlisted to be on the Amazing Race.
Wait, you mean the crap they showed on South Park was really was these people believe?!
To be completely fair, they were DC-8s.
I meant that they probably want to portray themselves as a "oppressed minority" or something like that...
Although I seriously doubt the ACLU would fall for it
No sig for the moment.
Not just to file fraudulant DMCA notices, but also to do so in the name of a Business that doesn't exist? I'd think someone, somewhere would want to take this opportunity to finally push back and sue for false allegations filed by a fradulant company in the name of an entity that was not part of the original notice. Might make a statement, (especially from YouTube) that we won't simply allow people to negligently file take down notices on material they don't even own the copyright to.
"This is the value of a summer spent and a winter earned"
I wouldn't call it evil. If they get a notice they have to presume its real, they don't have time to research 4,000 claims. Faking take down notices is fraud or criminal (not sure as IANAL). Since they have to assume they're legit they're doing the right thing by taking them down. Re-instating them is done when a counter-claim is received. They're just obeying the law, albeit a fairly poorly written one.
lol: You see no door there!
Earlier this year radio talk show host Michael Reagan called for the murder of Mark Dice live on air. Mark Dice uploaded a 3 minute clip of the death threat to youtube. Reagan's lawyers filed a DMCA claim on the clip, youtube took down Mark Dice's entire channel which had a lot of original content and over a million views. Dice tried to counter claim but youtube did NOT reinstate his channel. Dice had to make a new channel and upload his content back.
The FBI or police would not charge Reagan for his death threats and Reagan is still on the air.
If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
Yea, DC-10s just makes no sense at all!
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Given the amount of resources (time) that Google's lost in dealing with these (4000!) bogus DMCA notices, I think Google should file a lawsuit against the offending party. Obviously, I'd love to see the people who posted the videos start a class-action suit as well, but I think Google having to deal with the paperwork, remove the videos, deal with the counter-claim paperwork, and repost the videos represents a significant loss of time and thus money, all because someone is abusing the DMCA. Were I Google's lawyers, I'd use this situation as a perfect chance to deliver a message to all copyright holders - get it right or deal with OUR lawsuit.
Yes. Did you miss the big scrolling letters running across the screen?
The odd thing about Scientology is although that is what they believe, Scientologists are only told it after they have spent an awful lot of time and money on Scientology.
I must be new here...
Anyone should be able to bring evidence to a judge, and bring charges against someone in a felony or serious misdemeanor case. If someone shuts down your YouTube account via false DMCA notices, and a US Attorney won't take it, you should be able to hire your own prosecutor to press charges against the individual.
You know one major reason why this would be hard as hell to get passed? Because if it were passed it would not only pressure legislatures to write better, more consistent legal codes, but it would allow for pesky things like drug cops in cases like Kathryn Johnston's shooting death to be tried for manslaughter, perjury in securing the warrant and criminal negligence leading to injury or death.
Worked for the Catholics.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
They now have the names and addresses of the posters who responsed with DMCA counter-notices, and those individuals are now free to be "fair-gamed".
What is evil here is the law. Imagine an anonymous poster, somewhere on the front lines of a war, exposing some monumental lie or an atrocity by filming it and posting on YouTube. The government or any other entity who wishes for the public to remain ignorant simply issues a DMCA take-down notice. YouTube complies instantly and uncritically. The anonymous whistle-blower will not reveal himself to issue a "counter-notice" because doing so exposes him/her to being "taken down" himself, via a bullet to the head "friendly fire" incident or being found out an "enemy combatant" and disappeared for life into torture in some dark and secret dungeon.
That is why, as I keep pointing out, the so-called "intellectual property" has the ultimate effect of creating a totalitarian society. It happens via a deadly mix of the fundamental scientific illogic of the concept of "intellectual property" being exposed by progress of technology and the resulting ever more draconian attempts to reverse the effects of such progress by those whose profits depend on keeping the populace on a chain. That impacts the society so because totalitarian control of information (as is the only logical outcome of "intellectual property") must also lead to a totalitarian society as a whole.
Here is their own link
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103804/
"It's because they're stupid, that's why. That's why everybody does everything." -Homer Simpson
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I think it needs to be more than $250K.
Take the maximum fine for willful copyright infringement. Triple it (ala RICO). That should be the fine, per notice.
No ... it's more like, they can't think of a better, more LUCRATIVE scam than the one they've cooked up!
How many nation-wide con-artist operations do you see out there that are protected by federal legislation (organized religion status)?
Just 2 days ago, I received some propaganda piece in the mail from their "church". It was trying to recruit new members with false "scientific findings" they published. (Basically, the premise was that all the chemicals we encounter in our daily lives are permanently lodging themselves in our bodies and poisoning us. By signing up with their group, they could put you through a "cleansing" process to restore your body's "natural state". They actually claimed that it was a *scientific finding* that common anesthesia drugs were discovered permanently stored in people's fat tissue, among other things. Citation was conveniently left out on that, though.)
You did know that "Top Scientologists" and the church are facing fraud charges?
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09/09/france.scientology.trial.ap/index.html
Unfortunately they are being charged in France, I don't know if they are in the country or if they will have to be extradited. If so, I don't know if the U.S. will agree. After all, they could claim "religious" persecution.
See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)#Court_cases_involving_.22Fair_Game.22, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karin_Spaink, http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/, http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/cos/idx_coskit.html, http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/general.html
See also this quote from Wikipedia:
In 1994, Vicky Aznaran, who had been the Chairman of the Board of the Religious Technology Center (the Church's central management body), claimed in an affidavit that Because of my position and the reports which regularly crossed my desk, I know that during my entire presidency of RTC "fair game" actions against enemies were daily routine. Apart from the legal tactics described below, the "fair game" activities included break-ins, libel, upsetting the companies of the enemy, espionage, harassment, misuse of confidential communications in the folders of community members and so forth.
This is one of the good reasons why the sect tends to be viewed with suspicion in Western Europe (the sect is currently defending itself in France against a charge of fraud (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7604311.stm)). I'm still unclear as to exactly how sect has been able to secure the tax-exempt status of "church" with the US authorities. I have read that it was by successfully harassing the relevant officials, but that's quite hard to prove of course.
heh. Except you don't actually have to give the Catholic church ANYTHING, and you can still belong. Insightful? I think not.
More music, fewer hits
I meant that they probably want to portray themselves as a "oppressed minority" or something like that...
Ironic, since isn't it their intention to genocide the Thetans or something bizarre like that?
If someone were to prosecute them for persecuting Thetans, what would their defense be?
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
If you're an old usenet geek, you have plenty of reason to hate them. If you're an old slashdot geek, you also have plenty of reason to hate them. If you're a YouTube user, you also have plenty of reason to hate them. I'd wager that large parts of /. fall into all three categories.
There's been no large, concentrated legal attack on internet freedom from the other religions, to my knowledge, so I feel Scientology is rightfully getting attacked. If you also take the threats of violence, the stalking by PIs, the systematic exploitation of their own members and everything else into account, then it's an even easier choice.
Also of note is that Scientology is just as hateful towards gays as the Big Three religions, so I'm not sure where you're going with that.
This probe goes in your mouth.. This one goes in your ear. This one goes in your butt..."
bork bork bork!
Sadly, I had spoken with my wife in passing about Scientology a few times and she zoned out whenever I got into the whole Xenu/Thetan thing. I guess she thought it was some bad sci-fi story I had read. Then I showed her the South Park episode and told her that (animation aside) what was presented during that segment is actually what Scientologists believe. Now she's right along with me in ridiculing the "religion." It is really telling when South Park doesn't need to alter anything at all to make fun of a religion's story.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
We have a winner. This is most likely the real reason for the mass takedown.
Mod parent up.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
An e-meter isn't a voltmeter, it's a potentiometer (it measures resistance not voltage). It's based on a Wheatstone bridge design, and is a very sensitive way to measure the resistance between the probes. Since hydration levels, stress, sweat, etc., can all change the resistivity of human skin, an e-meter will measure these changes, which can then be (fraudulently) be interpreted as being of religious significance.
It's nothing more than a half-assed lie-detector.
Why are those things any more insane than...
* talking to angels (Mohammed was crazy)
* taking a lil' cruise to heaven and hell (yea, Mohammed was mucho loco)
* parthenogenesis by a human ("virgin" Mary, my ass)
* voices from a burning bush (Moses was another nutjob)
* genital mutilation (Moses was also one sick fuck)
It's hard to rank the degree of their insanity, but perhaps you could say Scientologist theology is sillier. Although maybe that's just because it is newer. Give them time.
Circumcision is child abuse.
But now, anyone who filed a counter-response to the Take Down is "outed" on documents that Scientology can subpoena.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
May you be touched by His Noodley Appendage.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
It's nothing more than a half-assed lie-detector.
And since lie-detectors themselves are no more than a half-assed lie-detectors, I'm curious as to exactly what fraction of an ass an e-meter has...
Last post!
They actually claimed that it was a *scientific finding* that common anesthesia drugs were discovered permanently stored in people's fat tissue, among other things.
Well, that would explain my need for a post-lunch nap!
Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
Funny, I never would have viewed any of those anti-scientology clips if it weren't for these bogus take-down notices...
In some ways it doesn't matter. If the case is put against the church and won then (as per previous rulings about them getting into trouble again) Scientology France could be dissolved.
I've done some searching, and so far, all Web hits for the entire name "American Rights Counsel LLC" (actual search string, incl. quotes) - even the foreign-language hits - all only point to news postings related to the takedowns. That's 101/101 hits total from a single Google search with that string, followed by 102/102 via Yahoo. Not a single one showing that group in a neutral light.
I'd therefore posit that this was either a non-Anonymous individual/group trying to draw negative attention towards the Church of Scientology, or an act carried out by a shell group controlled by the Office of Special Affairs (an actual group within the CoS).
Lol, who gives a crap about the faith? They can believe what they want, it's the bullying, censorship and child maltreatment that gets me.
Yes, because a zombie born by a virgin and fathered by sky-guy is sane.
Have you always worshipped murderers?
Good heavens. If you're pointing at one case and declaring the organization to be murderers, I'm assuming you couldn't possibly be part of any church. Show me a church that has spilled no blood in its history, and I'll show you empty pews.
there's no such thing as a "rogue $cientologist" - this guy was obviously pulling this stunt with the knowledge/approval of cult leadership and organization.
It was probably along the lines of something like this - his "auditor" told him this was what he needed to do to "clear" something, so he did it.
Of course, Wikipedia's completely bombarded by pro-$cientology stooges who try to whitewash whatever they can from articles on the cult. I'm not surprised one of their stooges popped up trying this on Youtube to remove videos by people who expose the cult for what it is.
Google should be developing a resistance to invalid censorship attempts like these meritless DMCA takedown notices. It should be much harder to trick Google into even temporary suspension. Soon enough, Google should learn that the burden of proof is on the censor, and leave content untouched until the attempting censor proves their case on facts and logic, not screeches and innuendo.
And Google's lesson should be the model for the rest who have to compete in the environment so influenced by Google in it.
FWIW, the DMCA should be amended to require takedown notices to first notify the accused infringer, and include the counternotice procedure and framework, before even notifying a 3rd party like Google (or any other independent publisher of other people's content). That reform would go a long way to making the DMCA less a club with which to intimidate without merit, and closer to some kind of protection of "progress in science and the useful arts" that is any copyright action's only legitimate basis.
--
make install -not war
At the moment, Christianity isn't run for profit (Roman Catholic church notwithstanding).
Citation needed.
Pirate Party UK
Then where's the body? We know Jesus was executed because we have other sources such as Tacitus and Josephus. If the religious or political authorities in Jerusalem took it, they could have easily produced it and ended the Christian "cult" right there. If the early believers had taken it, would they have been willing to die for what they knew was a lie?
As for the golden tablets, only Joseph Smith claimed to have seen them. Only L. Ron Hubbard claimed to have knowledge of the events recorded in OT3. The Bible, which stands up textual criticism at least with its many corroborating MS, claims that hundreds saw Jesus alive after his execution and while no secular sources confirm this, at least none give evidence to deny it.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Ohm meter. Voltage == potential.
Remember L. Ron's first rule of dealing with the media - "Never Defend, Always Attack."
And of course, any "Suppressive Person" is "Fair Game." (also here). Note the following: "May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."
From the Wikinews article:
Certainly looks like typical lying/"fairgame" $cientology behavior in action, doesn't it? I doubt one thing Schaper said about himself is true - and certainly doubt the idea that the FBI would be "involved" in the lies of a $cientologist. But that never does stop the Cult of $cientology from going about its business.
What's really sad is that your wife's way of thinking is typical here in America.
It's not real unless you saw it on TV.
Let me fix that for you:
The Catholic Church enjoyed a monopoly on Christianity in part because it was damn expensive to reproduce books and most people couldn't read latin even if they had a copy. This gave them control over everyone who didn't want to go to hell. And they made damn sure everyone didn't want to go to hell.
The Church of Scientology doesn't have that luxury. Most people are literate, the information is in the common language (actually, I'm guessing more than one), and books are cheap to reproduce. So they have to use legal means to establish their monopoly. But they are using the same basic formula as the Catholic Church to control members and gain money.
This is the difference between a Cult, and a religion. A Cult tells you some of the information, promising the full scoop later on; doing a form of Bait and Switch. A Religion, tells you all that it believes up front, and if you don't like it, well thats the religion, I guess you don't like that religion. I would have much less of a problem with the Cult of Scientology if it did not do the bait and switch, and deceptive tactics.
Don't forget:
* Zombie Jesus (Resurrection)
* Cannibalism (Transubstantiation)
* Human / Deity Chimeras (Son of God)
No, wait... switch the first and last ones.
Totalitarian control is the only outcome of IP? And this got modded up to 5?
I've seen some pretty ridiculous shit from the anti-IP people; but that's one heck of a strawman you've got there. IP is a tool like any other. A totalitarian government will use it as a tool to enforce draconian discipline. A better government will use it to secure rights for creative people. Let's have some fun:
IP is nowhere near as deadly as road construction. That is why, as I keep pointing out, the so called "transportation infrastructure" has the ulitmate effect of creating a totalitarian society. It happens via the deadly mix of technological progress creating increased mobility for both the populace and the military, and resulting in the ever more draconian incursion of armed troops into daily life. That impacts society so because the ability to move troops is the control of our everday lives (as is the only logical outcome of road construction) and must lead to a totalitarian society as a whole.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Yes, stories about aliens flying planes across space to dump other aliens into our volcanoes... that's insane.
A story about an ark carrying two of every animal in existence with enough food and supplies to last them forty days and forty nights... Well, guess that's pretty insane, too.
Most religions have their crazy stories. I find it odd that, as an atheist, I'm less critical of scientologists' beliefs than people of other faiths that have crazy beliefs of their own.
You've got to basically give the organization tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars, or work as their slave for little or no pay for years, before you get to that level.
Unfortunately the human mind is easily manipulated and by then you'll have been so effectively brainwashed that you will be more than happy to believe it.
The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has never yet spilled blood. Only pasta sauce.
I'm pretty sure that the Quakers have a distinct lack of blood in their history.
You'd think, then, that it'd be more effective in detecting the half-assed lies of the people promoting it...
It all depends on interpretation. The Roman Catholic Church tried something similar by keeping their holy texts locked in a (mostly) dead language. The flaw to this was that is was possible to learn the language. Scientology has managed to remove the flaw by replacing the language with a black box.
How hard would it be to do what the Blues Brothers did, and supply a bogus address to the authorities? If you are swinging against CoS, you probably already know about the fair gaming thing, and may be using a front. It's funny that CoS used a front too. Then you've got two fronts going against eachother, and the authorities just toss the case into a cardboard box to be shredded at some date in the future. The only real victims would be the poor saps who criticise such an organization without realizing that they just tossed marinara on the don's nice white shirt.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Now that it looks like this "American Rights Council" doesn't exist, I wonder if Google is going to start to require notarized DMCA take-down notices. Prior to this 4000-long list of notices, Google might not have had the evidence to show that DMCA notices were being abused, but this should provide ample evidence should Google ever get in legal trouble if they only accept notarized DMCA take down notices in the future.
The benefit for Google is obvious, as is the benefit for all of their users, etc. It's a big enough win to make me wonder if someone didn't just plan this as a way to weed out the chaff that is getting sent to YouTube legal; this event should hopefully send a warning to the RIAA and other groups that shoot from the hip with take-down notices: abuse of the DMCA's provisions will have negative ramifications.
coding is life
As opposed to...
This guy lives up in the sky and a long time ago he made all the people out of clay, cause he was lonely or something. He didn't like the people and killed them all by flooding the whole globe - all except for this one guy and his family who was supposed to save the animals by building a big boat. It gets worse.
Or...
This guy lives up in the sky and his son (who really isn't his son but really him but not really him) comes down to earth as the illegitimate son of an unmarried Jewish girl (who his real dad knocked up through an angel, so although he's a bastard its okay). So this kid grows up and saves the world by getting nailed to a cross (or a tree) but he didn't really die. Okay, he did die but he came back to life and then floated up into the sky to join his dad/self. And if you wish really hard someday you can go up there too, after you die.
Or...
[INSERT STUPID DEFINITION OF SOME OTHER RELIGION HERE]
No religion passes the belief test. Get over it.
In Soviet Scientology, meme +1 Funny you!
(Do I get mod points now?)
Thank God for evolution.
'At the moment, Christianity isn't run for profit (Roman Catholic church notwithstanding).'
When was the last time that you attended a members meeting for any curch? They always try to run at a profit, in North America anyway. I can vouch for this having been a 'Member in Good Standing' of the Protestant Church.
Some people are only alive because it's against the law for me to hunt them down and kill them.
As geeks, shouldn't we be more annoyed at the obviously non-scientific "big three" religions? Whatever iluminati/freemason paranoia or real conspiracy exists with scientology, that pales to the anti-gay and other affronts that Christianity brings. Where more than half are Christians, at least it's...different.
Well, for one, Scientology has nothing to do with science. It's beliefs are straight out of L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction books. The beliefs of most established religions are much more plausible than Scientology, plus many of those established religions are able to adapt themselves to modern science. Believe it or not, most modern Christians (non-evangelicals) believe that the Big Bang happened and God caused it, and the 7 days thing is because God lives outside of our time. I, though, do not follow this belief, but it's a very valid one that is compatible with known science. Scientology doesn't do that. They deny science and lay out their own beliefs that supersede science, according to them.
Two, they love oppressing all they can. The DMCA takedowns of opposition videos is just one thing. They love to threaten and harass opposition because that's all they can do to protect themselves.
Third, it's a money-making cult. Scientologists brainwash people into believing their hogwash and then bleed them dry. I forget the actual figures but you're supposed to give a substantial amount of your income to the 'church', and this isn't like tithes to a Christian church that benefit the church as a whole and also the community around it. These just get sucked back into the pockets of the Scientology upper echelons. Also, in Scientology you're supposed to buy your way into enlightenment. The more money you give to them, the more access to the basis texts you have. And, as I said, they brainwash people into believing their hogwash. They take in those who are most impressionable and have low self-esteem who can easily be molded. It's sad, really, on how such an evil (I do think of Scientology as evil like any other cult, but not so much so with religions) organization will prey on people and take advantage of them.
Also, flame me if you will for not hating on other religions, as is often the style here, but they aren't all that bad. Sure they've mostly all done some bad stuff in the past, but the also have all done some good stuff too. And at least with them you're free to leave and not totally brainwashed.