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CERN Releases Analysis of LHC Incident

Posted by timothy on from the training-exercise-was-too-trite dept.

sash writes "From the fresh press release: 'Investigations at CERN following a large helium leak into sector 3-4 of the Large Hadron Collider tunnel have confirmed that cause of the incident was a faulty electrical connection between two of the accelerator's magnets. This resulted in mechanical damage and release of helium from the magnet cold mass into the tunnel. Proper safety procedures were in force, the safety systems performed as expected, and no one was put at risk. Sufficient spare components are in hand to ensure that the LHC is able to restart in 2009, and measures to prevent a similar incident in the future are being put in place.'"

149 comments

  1. But but.... by sanso999 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When is there ever a guarantee when it comes to electrical? Things frizzle, large areas have no power, cables wear out, the list goes on. 2009? I see this being a long project indeed.

    1. Re:But but.... by failedlogic · · Score: 4, Funny

      Guarntee? Hell no. But there's usually a warranty: 30-day money back, 2 year with manufacturer (if you pay for shipping) and 1 year or more extensions by paying 20% or more of purchase price. If I were the USA or Europe, I would make a claim on the warranty. Return the LHC under the money-back or warranty terms. Besides, with all that helium leakage, its obvious that a bunch of Chipmunks run the whole show. So much for science. Bah!

      1. Buy Monster Cables
      2. Spend too much money
      3. ????????????
      4. Working LHC ?????

    2. Re:But but.... by moosesocks · · Score: 4, Interesting

      AFAIK, there's nothing terribly innovative about the accelerator or cryo portions of the LHC, apart from the scale of the thing.

      The CEBAF in Virginia has been operating at 2 Kelvin since the mid-80s. The technology to operate an accelerator at Liquid Helium temperatures is mature and well-understood.

      Odds are, this is a one-time design/construction hiccup. It's unfortunate that it happened, but should be something which can easily be overcome.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    3. Re:But but.... by Falstius · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing a cable was specified to XYZ and the supplier sold them a cable with spec X labeled XYZ. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened at CERN. Cables for harsh environments are expensive to make and expensive to buy, so there is a lot of temptation to cut corners.

    4. Re:But but.... by g-san · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or consider when you buy the amount of cable they did, that 0.00001% chance of defect creeps in.

    5. Re:But but.... by c6gunner · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you really believed that, you'd never willingly board any aircraft.

      Sure, things break down, whether electrical or mechanical. So what? That's why we conduct regular inspections, replace components based on established life-cycles, and conduct regular test-runs to ensure all systems function prior to being put into active service. Technicians aren't a bunch of witch-doctors, dancing around the machinery, shaking rattles, and moving components at random. It's a science like any other, and it produces repeatable results on which we can, and do, rely on to keep us safe and productive.

    6. Re:But but.... by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

      Of course if they'd used gold cables, none of this would have happened...

    7. Re:But but.... by Candid88 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a basic "trueism" of civil engineering that when you up the scale, you inevitably up the risks. Every little component which itself has a small risk of failure often adds ontop of each other, ultimately give a far greater risk of failure (or at least construction delays/setbacks). The technology may be sound at one scale, but that doesn't mean getting it to work on a bigger scale isn't difficult and doesn't present new problems.

      This area of the LHC was always a major challenge. I just hope they can overcome this problem (as appears to be the case) but more importantly that the measures taken to prevent future faults work as planned.

    8. Re:But but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Europe, there's 2 years of mandatory warranty by the shop that sold the merchandise. If you mail-order something - and that's probably true of the magnets - you get 14 or 30 days of money back guarantee depending on how/when you have been informed about this guarantee.

    9. Re:But but.... by Critical+Facilities · · Score: 1

      That's kind of what I thought. IANAP, but in the electrical engineering world, particularly in Critical applications, there is a lot of testing and commissioning that goes on prior to bringing something online. Does anyone know if there are tests that can be done on this equipment to rule out such flaws? Something similar to "megger" testing or Infrared Scans and Load Banking? It would have been nice for them to have had this happen during commissioning rather than during "online activities".

    10. Re:But but.... by Falstius · · Score: 1

      Huge amounts of time goes into commissioning the detectors, from model validation to connectivity testing to lifetime testing. The kind of 'random' testing normally done in QA (make 100, test 10 and if none fail you're pretty sure 99% will work) isn't sufficient here since that 1% fault can be the difference between success and failure. Just about every piece is individually tested, then tested after installation on a subcomponent, then tested after the subcomponent is moved to storage and then tested after it has been installed on the detector, and ten tested again once the component next to it has been installed.

      Sometimes a problem can slip through all of this testing. Cables that failed because of shoddy work at the supplier were found during commissioning of one of the detectors, it wouldn't be surprising similar be even loss obvious shoddiness slipped through.

    11. Re:But but.... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      We're just seeing a bathtub curve. We're going to see high failure rates for the first while as a perfectly normal and natural thing. After that, it's possible we won't see any statistically relevant failures for another 40 years, when we start to see end of life failure rates.

      --
      It's been a long time.
  2. First time... by MahJongKong · · Score: 0

    ...Physics news make the news!

  3. They got the idea from Deep Thought by 101010_or_0x2A · · Score: 5, Funny

    If one faulty electrical connection (out of several thousands I'm sure), can cause the "largest scientific project on earth" to stall for 6 months, these hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional beings will probably have to wait for as long as Deep Thought did (7.5 million years I believe) to find out that the world has already ended, and they should've stuck to 42

    1. Re:They got the idea from Deep Thought by stim · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Why is this modded down? Douglas Adams isn't even respected in here anymore?

      --
      Browse at -1 to keep an eye out for abuses.
    2. Re:They got the idea from Deep Thought by Candid88 · · Score: 5, Informative

      "to stall for 6 months"

      I think it needs pointing out though that the LHC was always going to be shutdown over the next few months as a planned contigency period in-case of even bigger faults occuring then the one which did (or construction being delayed as was widely expected).

      The real experiments will be occuring by mid-2009.

    3. Re:They got the idea from Deep Thought by Gromius · · Score: 1

      CERN always shuts down in winter. Power demand is at its peak in winter in France so its too expensive to run the accelerator complex. The winter shutdown has nothing to with the LHC.

    4. Re:They got the idea from Deep Thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps they should have built it somewhere with cheep year round power?

    5. Re:They got the idea from Deep Thought by BigGar' · · Score: 1

      I read the subject as "They got the idea from Deep Throat" and saw that your post was modded +5 funny and given the size and shape of the device, a giant rupture & spilling of fluid, I'd prepared myself accordingly.

      I start reading and am mightily confused as I can't for the life of me remember how electrical connections or pan-dimensional beings have anything to with the topic in my mind until I realize my mistake. I had to stop, put on my Joo Janta 2000 Super-Chromatic Peril-Sensitive Sunglasses and re-read the whole post. Now I'm good.

      --


      Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
  4. Too bad by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's too bad that projects like the LHC will soon run out of funding as bankrupt nations concentrate on keeping their populations fed and/or preventing the overthrow of their governments, rather than burning issues like "what is mass, really, when you get down to it?". Of course glitches and malfunctions like this (and the previous ones) will only serve to put us past the point of possibly having been able to answer that question, but failing due to lack of funding.

    How many billions of Euros have been spent on this project already?

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Too bad by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 5, Insightful

      About the same amount as it takes to build 10 kilometres of underground metro in Budapest.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    2. Re:Too bad by jnmontario · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'll take the above as sarcastic...but sometimes it's hard to tell. Honestly, there's always an argument for 'fix the wrongs of society' before funding pure science. That said, what society is worth living in that doesn't fund pure science. It is completely human (and arguably native to all thinking creatures) and satisfies the deep urge 'to know'. Think of what pure science has done for us. It has lifted us from the caves of Europe/Asia to space and beyond. It has given us everything from the internet to the ballpoint pen. I would gladly give my tax dollars to pure research rather than corporate tax cuts which benefit only human greed.

    3. Re:Too bad by interactive_civilian · · Score: 4, Informative

      How many billions of Euros have been spent on this project already?

      About 3.4 billion euros, and estimated to total around 6 billion euros in the end. Compared to a lot of other things, that isn't that much. Especially when you consider that several countries have been shouldering the cost together

      --
      "Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
    4. Re:Too bad by Animaether · · Score: 5, Informative

      "The total cost of the project is expected to be 3.2-6.4 billion.[15]" - wikipedia
      [15] = http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/god-particle/achenbach-text

      Skimmed over the reference, page 6 states:
      "Some U.S. money has gone into the LHC, which will cost billions of dollars: five, maybe ten--the exact number is elusive (the science will be precise, but the accounting apparently follows the Uncertainty Principle)."

      Contrast that with, say, the Joint Strike Fighter program+purchases:
      "Total development costs are estimated at more than US$40 billion (underwritten largely by the United States), while the purchase of an estimated 2,400 planes is expected to cost an additional US$200 billion.[49]"

    5. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'll take the above as sarcastic...but sometimes it's hard to tell. Honestly, there's always an argument for 'fix the wrongs of society' before funding pure science. ...

      You have committed the logical fallacy of: False Dichotomy.

      This is not an either/or. You could do both (or neither).

      Why is it "pure science" vs "fix the wrongs" instead of "pure science" vs "cosmetics" or "cosmetics" vs "fix the wrongs".

      Additionally, can you ever "fix the wrongs," or will there always be more?

    6. Re:Too bad by Attila+the+Bun · · Score: 5, Funny

      Contrast that with, say, the Joint Strike Fighter program+purchases: "Total development costs are estimated at more than US$40 billion (underwritten largely by the United States), while the purchase of an estimated 2,400 planes is expected to cost an additional US$200 billion.[49]"

      ...and if you arrange all those Joint Strike Fighters in a circle, the circumference is nothing like 27km. And they don't get anywhere near the speed of light. And they hardly ever collide.

      So all in all, the LHC is vastly better value for money.

    7. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but the LHC is nowhere near as sexy looking...

    8. Re:Too bad by NewsWatcher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I had the choice of spending six billion euros on a quest to unlock some of the greatest mysteries on earth, or spend $US700 billion bailing out overpaid bankers and their cash-poor customers, I know what I would choose.

      --
      If the pattern goes 9am, 10am, 11am, why isn't noon 12am?
    9. Re:Too bad by afidel · · Score: 1

      About a rounding error in the interest on the E2,000B the EU countries are spending bailing out their over-leveraged banks?

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    10. Re:Too bad by denton420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly.

      Unfortunately for most of the population, the amount of money that governments generate is unimaginable. (My self included) When you are talking about that much money, the term it self almost loses the everyday definition. It is pure power to make things happen on a huge scale. A mobilizing agent of human power and innovation.

      There is so much money to be spent that the government hardly knows what to do with it all.

      Well maybe that last statement is unfair. They know how to spend it, they just do not know how to do it in an efficient manner without gross negligence in many instances.

      And hey, maybe figuring out what mass is "really" will help us solve world hunger. Its worked before...

    11. Re:Too bad by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      You're wrong! The JSF and the LHC projects all fit in together.

      Once the acceleation of photons are complete, they will move up to increasinly larger objects. Two JSFs will go at 99% Speed of Light and collide. The blackhole created will allow the remaining 2,398 planes to roam the universe, setup 7-11's, drill for oil, collapse the housing markets, outsource labour, etc. etc. Same old, same old.

    12. Re:Too bad by UCSCTek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, it seems to me like you can't put the 5 billion euros into both the LHC and other causes at the same time.

      The point about fixing the wrongs is a good one. LHC will ultimately yield substantial progress towards understanding the universe (which, to fully appreciate, you really have to be a physicist). What is the expectation of sinking the money into a social program? Many programs here in the states are poorly constructed or simply underfunded so end up a waste, while some can truly help many people more directly and immediately than basic science research. From this angle, it seems science is a lower risk investment.

      PS Obviously things are just that simple, though...

    13. Re:Too bad by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wikipedia gives an estimate of 3.2-6.4 billion euro. That's not peanuts by any means; but it is actually pretty reasonable for a project of that scale. Cheaper than the Big Dig(Bechtel/Parsons Brinckerhoff are to be avoided, as it turns out), and roughly the same as the saudi contract for 72 eurofighter typhoons.

      The LHC will definitely find itself on the chopping block if we go back to mud farming and cooking our food by burning witches; but it is pretty cheap for a science project of that scale and scope.

    14. Re:Too bad by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Me, too. But if someone wants to pick "neither," what right do we have to take his money and spend it on our pet projects, anyway?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    15. Re:Too bad by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Informative

      I suppose, if 35 km (25 km if you go wingtip to wingtip) is "nothing like" 27 km.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    16. Re:Too bad by lysergic.acid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      with any public program there will be some people against its funding. so does that mean we do away with public schools, roads, mail system, police, fire departments, libraries, and all forms of public infrastructure and government?

      a democratic society makes decisions based on public good. most people would agree that funding the arts and sciences is in public interest. if you are really against public research, you can try to petition the government to cut scientific funding (this has happened recently). if that is not enough, you can move to a country where the government doesn't fund any scientific research (i'm sure there are a few out there).

      living in a society with other people means making compromises, that is part of the social contract which allows a civil society to exist. a free society doesn't mean everyone gets everything that they want even when it conflicts with the interests of the majority. thinking that you should always get what you want regardless of the good of the whole is a rather self-centered and immature attitude to take.

    17. Re:Too bad by g-san · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey babe, wanna go for a ride in a fighter jet?

      vs.

      Hey babe, wanna go see my collider?

      Fighter jet wins.

    18. Re:Too bad by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not a question of whether or not it is in the public interest. Clearly the public benefits from funding in the sciences, and less easily measurable in the arts. But how does that interest weigh against a man's right to the fruits of his own labors?

      The question is who funds it. If I believe (and I do, btw) that funding basic sciences and building particle accelerators a boon to myself and mankind, I'm inclined to donate some money to universities or other organizations engaged in the research I'm interested in (or that someone makes a cogent argument as to why I ought to be interested in.)

      The question is: do I have the right to demand YOUR treasure for things that make ME happy. I'm willing to concede that I have the right to spend *some* of your money on projects of particular import: police, fire, national defense, certain critical infrastructure, but every expenditure of public monies (even those I just mentioned) should be thoroughly debated, for every dollar spent was taken under threat of violence.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    19. Re:Too bad by erlando · · Score: 1

      How many billions of Euros have been spent on this project already?

      About 0.03% of the total EU GDP. In 2007 the EU seen as one nation had a GDP of 12.143 trillion Euro. The LHC costs a mere 4.4 billion Euro.

      --
      Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
    20. Re:Too bad by Dahamma · · Score: 3, Funny

      Collider? I barely know her!

    21. Re:Too bad by tenco · · Score: 3, Informative

      The german government increased funding for CERN projects by about 90 million EUR for the next 3 years just a few days ago.

    22. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ott a pont.

    23. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once everyone has ready access to food, clothes and shelter, we can consider all the wrongs fixed that should be.

    24. Re:Too bad by c6gunner · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Some social programs DO work - the problem is that when governments spend money on social development they generally either can't predict or don't care about the efficiency of the program. The politician who promises to increase welfare payouts to poor families probably doesn't give a damn about whether his promise will have a positive or negative effect in the long term - he cares mostly about getting votes.

      You see the same things in other examples of government spending. NASA did some amazing things in it's early days, but since then it's become a bloated government body which cares more about maintaining it's source of funding and keeping all it's bureaucrats employed than it does about developing a viable means of space exploration, or about keeping it's astronauts safe.

      Of course, once in a while governments manage to get it right, as in the case of the LHC. But, more often that not, the best way for them to contribute positively is to stay the hell out of our way.

    25. Re:Too bad by hansraj · · Score: 1

      If everything needed to be sold to people before they contributed for *that* cause, only "sexy" things would sell. OK, maybe not necessarily "sexy" but I think basic science costing $6 billion might be a hard sell.

      That said, maybe your idea would work. Heck, wikipedia works far better than anyone would have guessed few years ago about everyone freely editing an encyclopedia, and your idea doesn't even sound as insane as wikipedia would have sounded to most people back before it started. But your idea hasn't been tested anywhere. And it is just that I am (and probably many are) wary of it being tested in $mycountry.

    26. Re:Too bad by stjobe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      do I have the right to demand YOUR treasure for things that make ME happy.

      In a word: No.

      YOU have no right to demand much of anything from ME. However, if we live in the same society, that society have rights to demand things of both you and me. It might demand some of MY treasure and give it to YOUR pet project.

      When you (implicitly) agree to take part of the benefits of living in a society, you also (implicitly) agree to pay the costs.

      The second you paid your taxes it's no longer your money, it's ours (as in yours and mine and everyone elses in our society). The distribution of which we've decided to leave up to our politicians (since we cannot bother ourselves).

      The politicians do "thoroughly debate" every expenditure, but not necessarily in a venue you or I have (easy) access to. This is in order since we've relinquished our right to influence those decisions.

      --
      "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
    27. Re:Too bad by slider2800 · · Score: 1

      Nofene. Nem csak en vagyok magyar errefele'? :D ( = Woah. So i'm not the only Hungarian 'round here? :D )

      --
      return $sig;
    28. Re:Too bad by feyhunde · · Score: 1
      It's a volunteer project from many nations. The largest single fund giver is the USA.

      As for why to do it? Pure science breeds applied science breeds better lives. What will this project lead to if successful? I've got only a few glimmers.

      But projects like this have huge implications in applied science that are unforeseen. Particle accelerators created to answer questions like this are now used to create very specific isotopes that are otherwise too brief to be useful. These are the foundation of both many cancer radiation treatments, but now being used to create isotopes which emit a form of antimatter. This antimatter, exotic products of pure science is used in PET scans and took us years to get the science worked out.

      Further, an idea like hyperfine splitting, inpart quantified from particle accelerators is huge part of our daily life. Atomic clocks and GPS use this, as well as CAT scan technology. I have the pleasure of meeting Norman Ramsey who did the basic science research on this technology in the 40's and 50's. It would take 30 and more years to see it mature, but particle accelerator testing has had a drastic positive impact on our lives.

      What the LHC will do will give us a new springboard. Other modern accelerators are giving us insight to subjects like high energy plasmas which if we're lucky could lead to practical Fusion reactors. Whose to say the LHC won't give us the final push in that area? And that alone would mean an end to fossil fuel consumption. LHC may give us insights into quantum computing or solar weather modeling too. Ideas that will transform our world to the better.

      --
      I'd say more, but my guild is raiding.
    29. Re:Too bad by Vampo · · Score: 1

      Once the acceleation of photons are complete,

      Why are they using magnets and other funny methods like that to "accelerate" photons? Why don't they just heat up some metal for example, perhaps in the shape of a filament by passing a decent amount of current through it? Or use some kind of diode arrangement? Or even simpler, just set some good old hydrocarbons on fire. That should do it. Then they could focus on that interesting JSF idea ;)

    30. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      About a rounding error in the interest on the E2,000B the EU countries are spending bailing out their over-leveraged banks?

      Contrary to the $700 billion bailout in the US, the EUR2000 billion figure in Europe is "just" guaranties to inter-bank credits. Ideally, this money is not spent at all (though some probably will). Eg in the case of Germany, the German government has set up a EUR500 billion program: EUR80 billion to provide fresh money to banks by temporarily buying stakes in them (if they want). EUR400 billion in guaranties for inter-bank credits. They (justified or not) think they take a 5% risk, meaning that they expect to spend about EUR20 billion for cases where they indeed have to pay for the guaranties.

    31. Re:Too bad by Grismar · · Score: 1

      On the other hand,

      Hey babe, wanna go for a ride in my collider?

      vs.

      Hey babe, wanna go see my fighter jet?

    32. Re:Too bad by ypctx · · Score: 1

      will only serve to put us past the point of possibly having been able to answer that question

      are you sure? what if it will enable us to understand matter to the point where we know how proteins fold, or how to make better nanotech, generate clean energy, etc.?
      LHC is probably more important than half the earth's population starving for some time.

    33. Re:Too bad by Roxton · · Score: 1

      I measure these moral qualms against what I see as the (perhaps unattainable) gold standard of opt-in government.

      The government is magically set up so that it's easy for a large number of people to secede into a new government or to change governments. People get to evolve methods of governance, and each government decides how it relates to the other governments economically. People can create a government of one, but then their ability to engage in any sort of commerce with other people depends upon the whims of those people's respective governments.

      You can always split to get a government closer to what you want, but your government loses power with fewer human resources, so you have to decide how to compromise.

      In the above description, "government" is kind of a misnomer. You can see these governments as organizations bound contractually to their members, which the members can rip up at any time. It's very libertarian-friendly.

      I think we need this kind of large-scale collaboration that the government provides. However, since the gold standard is unacceptable, you have to weigh laws against the metric of, "If this government would opt-in, would most people want to split? Would this law make the situation worse or better?" Of course, the whole point of the opt-in system is that one size *doesn't* fit all, so it's not a perfect metric, but it's a good one given current pragmatic constraints.

    34. Re:Too bad by attackc0de · · Score: 1

      They spend 6 billion euros on a big LHC, but still no cure for cancer.

      --
      For a nice date: call strftime(3C)
    35. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikipedia gives an estimate of 3.2-6.4 billion euro.

      Um, who in Wikipedia? I've seen a lot larger estimates in European scientific press. Depends on what and how you calculate, I suppose.

      Really guys, this Wikipedia worship has got to go. It's fantastic for getting quick explanations on random new stuff, but accurate facts don't go well with editorless editing.

    36. Re:Too bad by Gromius · · Score: 1

      If that somebody has accepted and benfitted from societies gifts to him, I think the society has every right to ask him to contribute towards bestowing simliar gifts on the generation.

      As an example, if we stopped funding fundemental physics research into at the time very abstract things such quantum mechanics as a society 100 years ago because people didnt want to pay, we wouldnt have transistors or lasers. Without those, the modern world would be a bit different. I think if we take advantage of things our forbearers paid for us to have, then we should again contribute similarly at a level appropriate to our means so that future generations can have things we cant even dream of now.

    37. Re:Too bad by TheLostSamurai · · Score: 1

      Wow, I think that was one of the best explanations of our sociopolitical system I have ever seen. Well done sir.

      --
      I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
    38. Re:Too bad by oliderid · · Score: 1

      When you (implicitly) agree to take part of the benefits of living in a society, you also (implicitly) agree to pay the costs.

      Depends what you mean by implicitly. When I was a kid, my father used to tell me that I had already a debt of 35000 euro. This was a popular joke amongst belgians when the state debt was over 120% of the GDP in the 80's (now +/- 85% if I remind well). Because of this bad management (in the 70's and early 80's) the income tax went up dramatically (over 50% of my income during all my professionnal life)...My grand father used to remind me that in 50's they only had to pay...around 28% (and there were no VAT but that's another story).

      I personnally think anykind of deficit is a sort of crime. You jeopardize future generations well being. It should be outlawed and politicians allowing a structural deficit should be punished in a way or another.

      Taxes isn't always for us, it is sometimes for them (those enjoying the welfare state of the 70's in my case and the debt left afterwards).

    39. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      nfortunately for most of the population, the amount of money that governments generate is unimaginable.

      Here is the best way to understand those big numbers. Let's that the case if the US. THere are about 250M people here. So when they spend 100B in Irac, I can't "understand 100B" but I can understand that it costs everyone in the US $400. That much is easy. So, take those big numbers and devide by the population.

      That $6B project costs on order twenty euros (give or take) per person. That's much easier to understand.

    40. Re:Too bad by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      If I had the choice of spending six billion euros on a quest to unlock some of the greatest mysteries on earth, or spend $US700 billion bailing out overpaid bankers and their cash-poor customers, I know what I would choose.

      I thought that "spend $US700 billion bailing out overpaid bankers and their cash-poor customers" *ARE* "some of the greatest mysteries on earth".

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    41. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want fries with that philosophy degree?

    42. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6 billion euros is a drop in the bucket...

    43. Re:Too bad by deadcellplus · · Score: 1

      its also not an exclusive or, you could in theory 'fix the wrongs of society' by finding this 'pure science'

    44. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... Thinking that you should always get what you want regardless of the good of the whole is a rather religious attitude to take.

      There I corrected that for you.

    45. Re:Too bad by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      While you don't want to let your debt get too high, surplus is more of a crime than deficit: Politicians know only one way to deal with even temporary surpluses, and that is by creating additional long-term liabilities.

      Further, all government debt is not a bad thing: Where do you think T-bills, a big part of many retirement plans, come from?

      And then there's the whole purpose of debt: to finance a project *now* whose benefits are long-term. With debt, you can pay for a bridge over the life of the bridge, rather than all at once in one lump sum. Or you don't have to worry about that money sitting around doing nothing but causing deflation while you save up.

      Debt is only bad if you use it to buy things you can't afford, as opposed to using it to spreading out lump costs over the lifetime of something.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  5. Horizontal boosters? Alluvial dampers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well that's not it. Bring me the hydrospanners.

  6. I'm just glad I wasn't the grad student... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in charge of that component.

  7. But what causes the flash-forward? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And can they make it happen again?

  8. Bleah. Big hassle. by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's worse than I'd thought. They may have to pull quite a few magnets out of the tunnel for repair, and some sheered off their mountings.

    There's a lot of energy stored in those superconducting magnets. A magnet quench, where superconductivity is lost, is a violent event, even when the electrical safeties all work properly, as they did here. The magnet heats up suddenly, and boils the liquid helium. That blasts into the vacuum insulation cavity, setting off further quenches in nearby magnets. The pressures were high enough to blow out relief disks (as planned) and damage the vacuum valves to adjacent sections (not expected.).

    None of this is about the physics. It's all plumbing and electrical work.

    1. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "None of this is about the physics. It's all plumbing and electrical work."

      No, it's about overlooking a design flaw and going back to correct it. That's more engineering.

      But let's take what you said at face value--Are you kidding me? Forgetting that you are trying to dumb down something that is far more complex than you probably understand, much of plumbing and electrical work IS physics.

      On the magnet blow, the physicists designed the equipment in concert with engineers of various expertise. Clearly, some physics did not get adequately passed across to them; I am not putting fault to one or the other, or that even fault is the correct word as the design of the LHC is difficult...

      The LHC is a sequence of physics experiments in itself to study more physics. To state that it has nothing to do with physics when a (significant) part of the device has a now known (and bad) outcome and something was clearly not adequately anticipated is mind-numbingly silly.

    2. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by DiegoBravo · · Score: 1

      At least this time was not a bad PHP script; the human race is improving.

    3. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by Zackbass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't really understand what point you're trying to make. A lot of plumbing and electrical work IS engineering. The engineers know that all their analysis tools are based on physics and it doesn't take a physicist to understand how the support systems work and how to analyze them. The design of the systems is NOT a physics experiment, all the phenomena at work were well pinned down before anyone even thought of making the LHC. This is an engineering problem just like the space shuttle is an engineering problem. Just because the engineers didn't account for a particular failure case doesn't mean that the underlying dynamics aren't known.

      --
      You gotta find first gear in your giant robot car
    4. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by afidel · · Score: 2

      None of this is about the physics. It's all plumbing and electrical work.

      A LOT of physics went into designing and modeling the most powerful magnets ever made. Heck at full strength they will be about as strong as the strongest fields within the sun.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    5. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by g-san · · Score: 1

      "It's all plumbing and electrical work."

      And here I was thinking it was like rocket science.

    6. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by cmorriss · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's all plumbing and electrical work.

      Send in Joe the Plumber!

      --
      10 minutes working on a sig. What a waste.
    7. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by chtephan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, the quenches themselves are not the problem, these are quite under control and during the so-called training campaign something that is even deliberately induced.

      The problem here is more a chain of unfortunate events, and something that wasn't expected during design.

      Basically what happened is:
      - faulty electrical connection caused the power supply to trip (i.e. detect some problem and shut down)
      - fast discharge was triggered as a consequence
      - during fast discharge the current couldn't be handled by the faulty connection, causing an electrical arc
      - the arc burnt a hole into the insulation

      This is the first thing that hadn't been considered in the design. The cold mass can withstand a very high helium pressure. Helium is not expected to go in the vacuum outside of the insulation (which is there as a thermal shield).

      Then, the next problem:
      - the electric arc caused some bad electrical fluctuations, causing the quench protection system in several magnets to think there was a quench
      - as a consequence, the quench protection heaters then actually induced real quenches
      - as a consequence, a lot of Helium got evaporated, causing the Helium pressure in the cold mass to increase sharply

      This wouldn't have been a real problem, hadn't there been the hole caused by the arc.

      Now the Helium entered the thermal shield around the cold mass with high pressure, causing emergency shutters installed all 107 meters
      to close, which are there to protect the vacuum in the rest of the magnets. Unfortunately they were maximally designed to withstand a pressure of regular atmosphere and not the Helium under high pressure. As a consequence they were completely torn by the pressure, causing connections between magnets to be damaged and even more Helium to be released. Several hundreds of meters of tunnel were affected by this, which leads to my personal conclusion that the pressure must have broken several shutters in both directions, until they could finally hold.

      So, as a consequence, the actual faulty electrical connection was a small problem compared to the chain reaction which caused in total 29 magnets to be damaged.

      (Disclaimer: Personal interpretation of the incident report, there might be flaws in it)

    8. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by sash · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that the big problem was that the pressure relief valves of the external vacuum vessels had been designed to handle the case of a "normal" helium leak or of a quench, not the huge amount of helium gas plus heating from the spark plus the simultaneous quench of a 100 neighbouring magnets. If the pressure did not build up, the damage would have been far more limited.

      So they are going to install additional and/or larger pressure relief valves on each magnet. It's a huge relief that the problem was not in the inherent design, and the fix is a relatively simple modification. Still a very big job though.

    9. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by IchNiSan · · Score: 1

      He is going to be busy for a while, what with his licensing problems.

      You'd be better off calling Bob the plumber, from down the street.

    10. Re:Bleah. Big hassle. by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't really understand what point you're trying to make.

      The point is that the damage is worse that originally reported. Early reports indicated that the connections to a magnet had failed and the magnet had quenched, without damage to the magnet. That by itself wouldn't be too hard to fix, and probably could have been done in place. But, as it turns out, there was considerable damage to other magnets and vacuum lines. All this is in an underground tunnel, so access is tough. Especially since the LHC has less working room in the tunnel than most other big accelerators.

      The magnet assemblies are cylinders about 14m long, with both the superconducting coils and all the supporting vacuum and cryogenic plumbing. Now, several of those units have to be disconnected, moved carefully onto a transport car, moved very slowly to the big lift shaft, hauled up to the surface, repaired, returned to the tunnel, reconnected, and recommissioned. Each one of those steps is a big, tough job.

      Early papers claimed that a magnet quench would cause a few hours of downtime, not a few months.

  9. Stop the Insanity!!! by oldhack · · Score: 5, Funny

    Fools!!! Don't you see? LHC turns on, financial blackhole appears out of nowhere and sucks our banks dry! It's just like in the movies - it's the damned physicists, both at CERN and Wall St. Blood's on your hands, you cretins!

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    1. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really don't know what this has to do with Wallstreet but maybe you have something there.

    2. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying 2 trillion dollars just got sucked into a black hole ??

    3. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Black Hole, CEOs' wallets, private "trusts" of the elite to add 000's to their balance sheets ...what's the difference?

    4. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by itai.saku.kusari · · Score: 1

      No, the U.S. national debt of 10 trillion dollars just got sucked into a black hole !!

      Or so many Americans would wish.

    5. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by afidel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, you do realize that while it's a big number the US debt as a percentage of GDP is among the lowest in the industrialized world right?

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    6. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by need4mospd · · Score: 1

      Wish i had mod points for this... So many people focus on the big scary numbers without realizing what they actually mean.

    7. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Really??? Wow!

      10 Trillion debt => GDP ~ 14 trillion so 71% debt to GDP ! HA!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

      Sorting by debt to GDP, US is 27th best (last year!, now worse)

      I see a lot of coutries better than 70% :)

        * Spain? (30%)
        * Iran! (25%)
        * Mexico (22%)
        * New Zealand (20%)

      How about external debt??

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

      US is world's worst total debt. holder. Per capita, it is still on first page.. Nasty anyway you look at it. And no one is talking about it.

    8. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by Falstius · · Score: 1

      A lot of those wiz kid 'quants' had PhD's in physics. Not kidding. No, really, I'm not.

    9. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you've got it all wrong! It will fail again in 2009, they will then postpone it to 2010. And again to 2011. They will finally create a black hole on December 21, 2012 - to fulfill the Mayan prophecy!

    10. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by vigour · · Score: 2
      I never say this, but mod parent up

      Really??? Wow!

      10 Trillion debt => GDP ~ 14 trillion so 71% debt to GDP ! HA!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

      Sorting by debt to GDP, US is 27th best (last year!, now worse)

      I see a lot of coutries better than 70% :)

      * Spain? (30%) * Iran! (25%) * Mexico (22%) * New Zealand (20%)

      How about external debt??

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

      US is world's worst total debt. holder. Per capita, it is still on first page.. Nasty anyway you look at it. And no one is talking about it.

    11. Re:Stop the Insanity!!! by mrcaseyj · · Score: 1

      Every country has industr. But when someone refers to industrialized nations they're probably not thinking of countries like Iran and Mexico. A more fair example might be to compare US debt to the other G7 nations. Of the G7 nations, Germany, Japan, France, Italy, and Canada are all higher on the list than the US. The UK is the only G7 country lower on the list than the US. That makes the US look pretty good in comparison. However, two wrongs don't make a right. Maybe the US is just bad while the others are worse. Maybe the other countries are using the US example to justify their debt problem just as the US does to justify its problem, resulting in a vicious circle of spiraling debt.

      On the other hand I don't think it's unusual for individuals and businesses to take on debt exceeding their annual income, sometimes a multiple of annual income. In comparison 60 or 70% doesn't seem terribly high.

  10. That's what they want you to think. by hey! · · Score: 5, Funny

    What really happened is that the LHC destroyed the universe, but then put it back almost the same way as it was before, at least close enough that nobody noticed it.

    "But," I hear you ask, "how could the LHC put the universe back together from inside a universe that, speaking rather loosely, did not at the moment exist?"

    Well, an equivalent (from an observational standpoint) way of looking at it is that the LHC created a nearly exact duplicate parallel universe at the same time it destroyed the one it was currently residing in. However, it would be totally pointless to create an exact duplicate, otherwise how would you know you actually did it? So it ... left out a bit. Specifically the bit that was containing the liquid helium in LHC'.

    It really is one hell of a parlor trick.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:That's what they want you to think. by HertzaHaeon · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think I may have found one more difference in the new universe.

      I woke up on the day of the accident with a goatee, which of course means I am my evil twin in this universe.

    2. Re:That's what they want you to think. by scrod98 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Very well then, thank you for a means to explain the panties that suddenly appeared in the glove compartment of my car. Just a spacial shift when the universe was recreated.

      --
      LETS DECOMPOSE & ENJOY ASSEMBLING
    3. Re:That's what they want you to think. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's better than waking up with goatse

    4. Re:That's what they want you to think. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that's just a dream... no nerd has ever had a reality (this one, or another) that involved panties, unless they stole their sister's.

    5. Re:That's what they want you to think. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Douglas Adams is that you? I thought you were dead.

    6. Re:That's what they want you to think. by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      If this parlor trick fails, can we have one where David Blaine disappears with? That's more the type of magic I like!

    7. Re:That's what they want you to think. by hyades1 · · Score: 5, Funny

      CRAP! Why didn't I think of that!

      I just got busted by the guys on my hockey team for wearing panties. When one of them asked how long I'd been doing that, I had to tell him, "Since my girlfriend found them in my glove box."

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    8. Re:That's what they want you to think. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The LHC did destroy the universe. We're just in an alternate one where it failed instead.

  11. no one was put at risk... by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

    Some interns were sucked into a black hole created by the experiment,
    but in any undertaking this complex you must expect some minor setbacks.

    So they soldier on with a renewed sense of enthusiasm for the mission.

  12. I've had experience dealing with this! by CaptainPatent · · Score: 3, Funny

    If their machine opens a gateway to hell, I've dealt with that before... I forget where.

    --
    Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
    1. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So have I...

      My plasma rifle and railgun are locked and loaded, you just bring the rockets.

    2. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that where you found your wife?

    3. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But are you prepared for Xen?

    4. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by aslvrstn · · Score: 1

      I smell a Buffy fan...

      No?

      Anyone?

      Anyone?

    5. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      Were crowbars included in the LHC design specification?

      If so, then I might know a guy who can help...

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    6. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doom has no Railgun, that's Quake.

    7. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      "Howard the Duck," actually, I think.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    8. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      Buffy f'in rules!!!

      (But I'm still all man)

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    9. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 3, Funny

      You work in tech support?

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
    10. Re:I've had experience dealing with this! by Cowmonaut · · Score: 1

      No. See Doom or any number of cheezy sci-fi horror films.

  13. Re:Horizontal boosters? Alluvial dampers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe it's actually a problem with the Oscillation Overthruster!
    Lord John Whorfin may have tampered with the equipment.

    MONKEY BOYS IN THE FACILITY!!!!!!!!

  14. Meanwhile, in related news ... by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... officials at CERN reassured the scientific community, in high, squeaky voices, that the helium leak will have minimal impact on the LHC program over the long run.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Meanwhile, in related news ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      could have been worse. Could have been a Helia leak.

    2. Re:Meanwhile, in related news ... by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      high, squeaky voices

      Actually, helium doesn't affect pitch. The squeaky effect is due to a formant shift.

      http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1803/why-does-helium-make-your-voice-squeaky

      --
      Squirrel!
  15. What really happened... by actionbastard · · Score: 4, Funny

    Was this.

    --
    Sig this!
    1. Re:What really happened... by caluml · · Score: 1

      I can't believe there's a Futurama Wiki. Bender Bending Rodriguez? Sheesh :)

      --
      Get your own free personal location tracker
  16. Safety First! by pugugly · · Score: 1

    Fortunately our Safety Inspector was able to assure us that the large electrical arcs and hole in the facility were perfectly okay.

    Thank god for that right!

    Pug

     

    --
    An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
  17. train wreck in the tunnel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    (Intentionally) lost from the antiseptic description of events is a detailed description of what the tunnel actually looked like. Train Wreck. LHC dipoles were ripped from their stands and accordianed like a derailed freight train.

    The design flaw which allowed this to happen is a pretty big one; basically there's no "bypass" for current passing between magnets. There needs to be a safe path for current to flow around faults when you open the circuit in a big magnet system, otherwise you get an arc. Not "so" big a deal in a normal conducting system, arcs like we saw here are, as we've seen, catastrophic for cryo cooled accelerators. This design flaw exists between every magnet in the entire 17 mle ring. Fixing it is no small deal.

    In spite of what the press release says, there is No Way In Hell they didn't _know_ they were at risk of this failure mode. This was the result of a deliberate decision on their part to minimize the number of penetrations in their magnet cryostats. (All well and good, but claiming it was a surprise is complete bullshit)

    MAYBE they can turn on in '09, but they've got a very very big job ahead of themselves.

  18. Denial by dark+grep · · Score: 1

    So they are not saying it was caused by a world gobbling black hole? I bet if they were asked, they would _deny_ it was caused by a black hole. So obviously the problem was caused by a black hole.

  19. And he will be replaced with homer simpson by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    And he will be replaced with homer simpson

  20. I'm pretty certain... by Roskolnikov · · Score: 1

    I found the idea of 'world gobbling' black holes entertaining but why stop at one? If you made more than one, would one consume the other? would they balance? I'm thinking about a car going oh, say the speed of light and you turn on the headlights; does relative time slow down or speed up? did that damned tree fall? is the cat dead? how did Alia get into her grandfathers head?

    --
    Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
  21. for no good reason by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    The Large Hadron Rap

  22. They're waiting for you, in the test chamber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Overhead capacitors to one oh five percent. Uh, it's
    probably not a problem, probably, but I'm showing a small discrepancy in... well, no, it's well within acceptable bounds again. Sustaining sequence.

    1. Re:They're waiting for you, in the test chamber by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Even though there are lots of jokes about Black Mesa inbound, and the damage was anomalous, materials seem to be okay so they're not going to let those unforseen consequences bother them at the office. Complex and expensive science might mean that we've got hostiles who come to Slashdot to blast, pitting investigation against pragmatism, but when the CERN manages to completely power up those nay-sayers will be run out of town on a rail. There was some apprehension and the mistrust will hang around as a residue, processing of the results will take a while, and I'm sure some will still say they have questionable ethics, but under this surface tension most people want to see the project succeed, so we'll forget about freeman and the lambda core and all that other nonsense. It's not going to turn into Gonarch's Lair and we can forget about any interdimensional interloper like Nihilanth.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:They're waiting for you, in the test chamber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dr. Freeman's a highly trained professional; he doesn't need to hear all this. I've assured the administrator that nothing can go wrong.

  23. Look at it this way. by jd · · Score: 1

    If some of the consequences were unexpected, we now know far more about the energies involved in superconducting magnets when they quench. Our knowledge of physics at the extreme end of superconducting magnetism has lept forward by a considerable distance - quite literally, if it was placed on top of one of the magnets.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  24. No matter how many times I read it by banffbug · · Score: 1

    ...it's still the Large Hardon Collider in my mind.

  25. wohooo, world's gonna last a couple more months! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wohooo, world's gonna last a couple more months!

  26. Re:wohooo, world's gonna last a couple more months by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

    wohooo, world's gonna last a couple more months!

    Or maybe it wont come back online till 2012. Bets anyone?

    Kidding aside, I will shit myself if this thing isn't running by 2011. Given the state of the global economy, it might get funding cut for awhile. I'm just saying...

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  27. Forgotten the $3+ trillion war already? by toby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You remember - the unnecessary war of aggression, waged on false pretences, that most people* found abhorrent?

    (*counting non-Americans)

    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:Forgotten the $3+ trillion war already? by ericlondaits · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The world needs a war cookie jar... you can go off to war as long as you put a dollar in the jar for every dollar spent in warfare.

      --
      As a Slashdot discussion grows longer, the probability of an analogy involving cars approaches one.
    2. Re:Forgotten the $3+ trillion war already? by mrcaseyj · · Score: 1

      Calling Iraq a war of aggression is like saying that if there were some robbers holding tellers and customers hostage in a bank and they started killing the hostages, it would be aggression to send the SWAT team in to rescue the hostages from the criminals. Hussein was a murdering thieving criminal committing an ongoing crime against the Iraqi people. Invading Iraq was a legitimate action to rescue victims of a crime and take down the criminals. The US went in and established democracy and put the people back in control of their country so they can run their country the way they want to instead of the way Saddam wanted to. Hopefully the Iraqis can eventually stabilize their country. Then we'll know if Bush was totally mistaken or not.

  28. Don't underestimate China by religious+freak · · Score: 1

    For better or worse, never underestimate the "communists"... China is just starting to gear up, and a major project that builds on, or stands tall alongside of, LHC will give China plenty of "face" in the world.

    Think they just want to spend money on the Olympics?

    The Chinese will pick up the slack and lead technology where large capital investments are required, again - for better or worse.

    --
    If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
  29. Indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least the money spent on the LHC has gone do people actually producing stuff, from digging it out of the ground to turning it into useful materials and ultimately into functional objects.

    What have the bankers done other than push money around and create derivatives of derivatives that are increasingly detached from any real meaning or value?

    Probably the main productive task involved was having extra large pockets sewn into their pants so they could trouser more of the money as it flew on by.

  30. A better spend money?! by dvh.tosomja · · Score: 0

    Shouldn't be better to spend billions on some war rather then failed experiment?

  31. Thrilling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thrilling. Let me know when they accidentally open up a portal to another dimension and evil monsters, hungry for human flesh, comes through.

  32. Obviously cheap componentry by GuruBob · · Score: 0

    the should have used these denon thingys throughout the site.

    Hell, maybe they did.. It did cost billions after all.

    --
    Facebook is a woodpecker tapping on the skull of Humanity, Forever.
  33. !Q by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    The LHC would have cost more if they tried to build it underneath Boston.

    There's the plumbers union, the steelworkers union, the garbagemen union, the police, MTA, and a few thousand Charlies to deal with. Not to mention the takeout shops being shut down for a few months at a time.

    But hey, they actually built a new Garden. So anything is possible in Boston. Even the Sox winning the Series again. Oh yeah... Well, the Pats winning a Super Bowl. Oh yeah... Well, the Celtics winning the NBA Championship. Like THAT's ever gonna happen again! Yeah! Take That! Bahahahaha!

    And if they did build the LHC underneath Boston, it would leak like a sieve. Oh, wait...

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  34. Side note: What the internets has done to me. by CarbonShell · · Score: 1

    Everytime I read 'Large Hadron Collider' I am confronted with what the Internets has done to me. Or am I the only one who's mind automatically flips the d & r?

  35. Cold Soldering Joint by Toad-san · · Score: 1

    You never heard of a cold soldering joint before? Tch ...

    Much less glamorous than a pesky little black hole penetrating the casing. Or that interdimension portal and shrieking demons.

    There weren't any demon carcasses discovered when they got all the helium pumped out, right?

    Right?

  36. Brawndo by dunc78 · · Score: 1

    It is simple to solve world hunger. All we need to do is start feeding plants "Brawndo". Its got electrolytes, which is what plants need.

  37. No inuries but.... by drmemnoch · · Score: 1

    "Proper safety procedures were in force, the safety systems performed as expected, and no one was put at risk."

    But one guy did talk funny for a few minutes.

    Ba-dum-bump

    --
    Those who can do... Those who can't get a certification from Cisco or Microsoft.
  38. This incident was foretold... by Future_Man_FTW · · Score: 1

    Being from the future, it is unfair of me to say that I knew this would happen. But... I knew it would happen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2VXUQwGHZg (Future Man comes to our time to talk about Ruby).

  39. CERN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Our business is life itself."

  40. Sectors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do they really call them sectors? If so, we are fucked. Truly. Disclosure: I did not read the article.