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User Interface of Major Oscilliscope Brands?
teddaw152 writes "I've been tasked with ordering an oscilloscope and a logic analyzer for use in a university physics lab, and have found several models that will likely suit our technical needs from the major manufacturers (Agilent, Tektronix, and LeCroy). However, I personally have only used legacy HP scopes, and thus I have no idea what modern features are must haves and which brand's user interface is the most intuitive. Is there anyone out there that has used modern Tektronix/Agilent/LeCroy scopes side by side and can comment on their thoughts from the purely subjective side?"
The most important feature, and I cannot stress this enough, is that the oscilloscope be able to display wavy lines. I once got a discount oscilloscope from a back alley dealer, and all it could display was straight diagonal lines. It was an unmitigated disaster.
Not another scopes trial!
Are you really going to come to slashdot with a question including
"I have no idea what modern features are must haves and which brand's user interface is the most intuitive."
The clear answer to your dilemma is that the task should have fallen on someone else. Who is going to be using these things? If it's you, maybe you are best to stick with legacy HP scopes until you figure out what it is that you want.
Assuming there still is one in your area, you might ask the folks at your local amateur radio club. They are more likely than the Slashdot crowd to be familiar with the use of oscilliscopes.
Dude, If you feel comfortable with the old HP, you have to remember that Agilent was spun off of HP back in 2000. Maybe the Agilent one is more to your liking.
I like my LeCroy - in fact it is quite awesome.
Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
These may not have all the bells and whistles of the fancy scopes, but they are pretty neat.
http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/BASICStampModules/tabid/134/txtSearch/oscilloscope/List/1/ProductID/46/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName%2CProductName
I saw a LeCroy we have -- about $10K -- that was freaking amazing. Plugs into a network, has USB, can store waveforms, zoom, virtually unlimited capture, freaking AUTOMATICALLY figured out which serial standard was being used to generate the waveform (the first -- and perhaps only -- time that "autoconfigure" really did the job), etc. They're good. Unless Agilent and Tektronix have come a looong way, LeCroy is going to be the one to beat.
$.02
What range of scope are you looking for? It really depends on which end of the spectrum. In the 100 and 200 MHz range, I think Tektronix blows everyone else out of the water. When you get to the 500 MHz and Gigahertz stuff, I think Tek still has the price advantage, and ease of use, but the competition is a lot closer. All three manufacturers know what the others are offering and price accordingly. I have seen LeCroy ones lock up with a LeCroy rep operating them. On the real high end, the Tektronix logic analyzers can interface with the scopes to give a coherent display of both digital and analog data. The best way to choose is the call the local reps and use a loaner model for a week or so.
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A few points of advice.
Agilent lets you connect a scope to the logic analyzer and display both waveforms on the same screen.
I did extensive evaluation on the UIs of Tek, Agilent, and Lecroy when I bought. All were approximately comparable. All had things that were great and some that sucked. You should be able to get a demo from sales and possibly keep it for a month.
Do you really need / want a logic analyzer? Unless you're doing FPGAs or pure-digital boards with lots of parallel buses, get a Mixed Signal Oscilloscope instead. They'll decode RS-232, SPI, I2C, and so on and display it on-screen. My high-end scope and logic analyzer lack these features and I am kicking myself. I mostly do microcontroller work and an MSO would have been far more usable. I'm not sure if I have ever even used the logic analyzer.
Call the local reps for the various brands and ask them for advice. They'll come in with some units suited to your needs and demo them. You can usually get one to keep for a couple days to a week to try out.
Personal preference? I have a LeCroy Waverunner 104Xi 1Ghz on my desk and it works great and acts as a heater for the colder months.
All old HP scopes were made by the division that is now Agilent. Depending on how old your old HP scopes are, they may resemble newer Agilent scopes the closest. Features have changed a lot in 10, 20, and 30 years on these devices.
This comment is correct. If you like legacy HP oscilloscopes then stick with Agilent.
I thought the major companies offer a way to evaluate them before committing to buying one. I am pretty sure Tek has such a program. I would look into that first.
I've only used recent Tek scopes, but their interface is reasonably intuitive if you're used softkeys before. I think most scopes have a fairly similar interface these days, it's just a matter of how "multifunction" you want each individual control...
What are you measuring? How fast, amplitude, triggering requiremnts? Having used HP, LeCroy and TI. My least favorite is the LeCroy. Poor visibility of cursors, and trigger level. Flexible but challenging trigger modes. The acceleration & sampleing on the knobs is horrible, 1/2 the time, values go down when turning up due to slow knob sampling (aliasing). Works properly when it counts for critical measurement though. We also use an old HP logic analyser, old slow UI but easy to use and does the job.
I work in a power lab with both LeCroy Wavepros and Tektronix 5000's. Not sure if these two models are technically comparable, but I can say I like the LeCroys much better:
The GUI is better organized. It's much easier for a new user to be able to just sit down and be able to figure out how to setup the display so they get what they need. Theres a learning curve with the Tek scope.
Speed. The Tek scopes are painfully slow to respond when you change a setting. The LeCroy on the other hand feels like it's instantaneous. This is especially true if you want to use the scope by connecting to it remotely (via ethernet control). The Tek scopes feel like there practically useless for this purpose.
Use of external code. The LeCroys have the ability to take code you've written (in something like Matlab say) to process your data real time which is very handy. I'm not sure if later versions of Tek scopes have this ability or not.
Use a PC and software to create a virtual oscilloscope. No need for expensive standalone instruments:
http://www.ni.com/digitizers/
I have used various scopes in the past, and Tektronix scopes have always been my preference. As far as which particular model you get depends on what your needs are. The scope I used last was a Tektronix TDS2000, and it worked great.
Im using both Agilent and Tek scopes and they are my choice.
Agilent is the new HP, all of HPs electronic and instrumentation buisness units were spun off into Agilent.
They are pretty much the go to brand for scopes and what not in the industry.
Doesn't mean you have to buy from them, just use their features as a baseline then get what you think you want. (At minimum make sure it has the standard sweet of communication ports, specifically GPIB/Ethernet. IEEE standard com protocols and stuff will allow for fully automated setups.)
Most companies will let you borrow a unit for a couple weeks to play around with.
When it come the instruments, focus more on the service side of things. The big name brands will likely have better service.
...and ask him to bring you a demo model.
I needed to uses some digital oscilloscopes for this first time for about 10 years a couple of years back - they were certainly a big set up from the old analog CROs we use in prac at Uni. Features I really liked are:
- Multiple inputs (at least 2) and ability to do sum/difference etc on the two signals. Vital it looking at differential signals
- Ability to save output as a bitmap and some way of accessing the dump - the ones I was using used floppies but I guess that is rapidly becoming unusable
- Remote (http) access. Not useful if these are for playing with directly but great if you want to setup some experiment and monitoring it in comfort.
- Persistent mode - Basically the screen does not blank bits. This is great for looking at long term stability of a signal. You can monitor a clock signal, say, and check it has no glitches over a few hours.
Maybe all digital oscilloscopes do this - I just wander down to the digital lab and pinch the closest one off the shelf...
Depending on the resources in your lab, and its purposes, you might find that a software-defined interface is more flexible for your needs. You can add any sort of interface or processing capabilities you want.
http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/205615
If it's a research lab, something like the above may be just what you want. If it's a teaching lab, and you want students to have access to real knobs and buttons, then my experience is specifically with Tektronix scopes that I use at work. Again, without knowing your price range, there are a wide range of options out there.
At the low end, the TDS5054B series has an interface likely identical to that of your old scope; they did a reasonable job of replicating the older style of analog interface but added on some processing utilities.
http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/tds5000b/
I've used a scope the DPO400 series as well. I found it's interface to be rather, well, different at first, with all the options not in the places I'd usually expect them to be with my other Tek scopes. But I eventually grew used to it and found it all perfectly fine - except that the probe connections for some reason don't allow use of our current probes. They work fine on all other scopes, and I see no reason why they molded the plastic on this scope to exclude them.
http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/dpo4000/
Finally, at the high end, you have something like the DSA8200. This scope runs windows, which you can get to to do some data analysis, but the scope itself is controlled through the Tek application. It looks and behaves like a piece of software; there are buttons on the front for some features, but they are just macro buttons to execute the commands; it's often faster to just use a mouse since the buttons only offer limited functionality.
http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/dsa8200/
Note how the Tek scopes are all mostly more expensive than the NI scope, with more limited flexiblity in the interface. Again, if I knew what bandwidth you needed or what your budget was or the purpose of your lab, I could give better recommendations.
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
It runs Windows 2000 and takes a cup of coffee to boot up but runs nicely.
We tried Agilent scopes (we were able to try-before-buy) and found them easier to use, more compact, less bloat that the LeCroy.
I think its hard to go wrong with modern oscilloscopes.
Must haves? What? Besides being able to show a sine, square, and sawtooth waveform, what more are you looking for? Even the legacy oscilloscopes from HP that I've used has had a lot of the modern features that you see on the newer ones today. Sure, the newer ones do certain things more nicely, but there honestly isn't a huge difference, unless you're looking for things like color, USB support for capturing waveforms, super accurate frequency readings, etc... What you need to do is figure out what specifically is going to be needed with whatever projects you're doing.
This is what I use at work. (Specifically the TDS2000B.) I have no complaints with it. I've found this to be intuitive to use. It's simple and robust for what it is. Other people around me have to use the TDS1000B, and really the only difference is the lack of a multicolor display, USB support, and only 2 channels. I haven't had any issues showing our "trained monkeys" (pre-testers who have zero training or education in electronics) on how to use these oscilloscopes.
As a software developer who's trying to learn about hardware, I find the timing of this question quite valuable, as I have a related question.
I'm interested in getting an oscope for my home learning. Typical beginner circuits (low power, inductors, breadboard etc).
Could someone who has more experience in this than I please give some recommendations for a new scope to buy?
The standard Physics lab ones are expensive (or at least they used to be). I'm a little hesitant to pick one up off of ebay, sight unseen.
Any recommendations here for a new one within the budget of a home hobbiest?
Many thanks in advance.
I'm a EE and at several companies I've worked at, the Engineers all seem to like the Tektronix TDS2024. You can find them for about $2000. They sample at 200MHz and can trigger off of both digital or analog signals. The user interface is pretty intuitive and you can save wave diagrams to a USB. It might be a bit overkill from what you are looking for, but they work pretty well. I've seen higher-end models that get a lot more expensive, but it all depends on what you are looking for.
I work with these oscilloscopes every day, and I've had far and away the best experience with LeCroy.
LeCroy's scopes all have touch screens and all run Windows XP Embedded. While that does mean they occasionally crash, it also means that it's easy to move a screenshot onto a memory stick (Tek scopes usually make you dial a wheel to enter filenames), their triggering options are incredible (these are big-dollar addons with the others), and the UIs, because of the touchscreens, provide more complexity and are still easier to use.
My biggest problem with the Tek scopes is that their "zoom" feature causes aliasing. We once spent the better part of the day trying to figure out why zooming in on the waveform showed ringing. Turns out the ringing was completely due to a too-low sample rate, something that the LeCroys automatically handle.
LeCroy also has much, MUCH more responsive people than Agilent. Every time I've had a problem with an Agilent piece of equipment, their answer is "oh, we can solve that if you buy this $3000 piece of software" or "sorry, that power supply is an older one, just send us $1500 for a new one," so I try to avoid Agilent. If you need REALLY FAST acquisition, their oscilloscopes usually are tops in that spec, but otherwise they're pretty tough to work with.
I have one other, kind of odd, recommendation. Buy LeCroy scopes but Tek probes. The LeCroy probes are irritating to work with because they require you to push REALLY hard to get the caps onto them, plus their grounding clips are so short they usually can't reach a ground without a test lead clipped in, which defeats the low-inductance.
Good luck!
Most of the newer scopes, the ones you are looking to get,we have at my work all run Windows. So you can play Minesweeper on them.
Your question is simply wrong. Pick the scope that has the features you need.
Your question is like asking which religion is better luthernism or catholism. The answer has started wars.
Todays scopes all have user interfaces that are PITAs. Too many menus with too many features.
In most cases, you will never use more than 3 or 4 of these features. On rare occasion, you will need one of the advanced features, the manual won't be around and you won't remember how to use the feature. When this happens, take your brain out of it's hat box, put back in your skull and play. Regardless of the UI, you will eventually find out how to use the feature. If you can't figure it out, ask a Ham or a hardware hacker to help...they will know.
From someone who just bought a new scope, the Tek DPO3000 series blows away anything i've used before (Tek, HP scopes and LA's).
The scope has a very large sample buffer with a screen and controls to make it very usable. The ability to decode I2C, SPI, RS-232, RS-485, CAN and LIN make my life many times easier for what i do, embedded development.
As for the Logic analyzer, i agree with one of the above posters, unless you are working with very complex digital systems with very high speed parallel buses (think DDR3) i would look at mixed signal scopes...if you need say 8 channels, i would recommend using 2 x 4 channel mixed signal scopes and a software suite such as national instruments labView. this would give you the capabilities of a 8 channel logic analyzer with much greater flexibility. If you really need to look at a 32 pin parallel bus, then obviously the logic analyzer is your only option. I can't offer much advice on such units as i never use them.
I think its hard to go wrong with modern oscilloscopes.
Well, at my University, about 25 years ago, they started a energy saving plan, and turned off the heat in the classrooms and labs at night. Being that computer/electronics geeks tend to be nocturnal, we were freezing our balls off. So we scrounged up every available big old Tektronix honkers, vintage HP wave generators, anything with TUBES gathering dust in corners somewhere in the department.
We had the place up to sauna temperature.
So, do not neglect the tube factor. Plus, audiophiles claim that tubes are better anyway.
And plan to spend more for your connecting cables, as for the oscilloscope. Big, fat, "Monster" ones, made out of iridium, platinum tipped.
I think I really miss those old Tektronix tubies ... they made a real *whack* when you turned them on, and you could look through the perforated cover to see the tubes light up.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Quick! go make fun of the guy who used the word "enterprisey"!
We (university accelerator physics lab) have dozens of Tek scopes in the 2000, 3000, 5000, and 7000 series. We have a lot of custom software that uses GPIB and the National Instruments libraries to talk and collect data from the scopes. Researchers generally like to change the settings using the scope knobs directly, and then use the computer for taking repetitive data.
Anyways, we've been very happy and are almost completely a Tektronix-only shop.
My wife calls them "silly scopes."
I've just bought a new scope at work, we had Agilent and Tektronix to play around with for a couple of weeks, so might be of some help. We were looking at MSOs, combination scopes and logic analysers which I can throughly recommend if you don't need all the triggering on a full logic analyser. The Agilent scope was simple to use, its all menu based with quick access to the most common features off the front, but its worth getting a tek scope in to play with the Wave Inspector technology, allows you to pan through long samples really quickly. Its worth getting a bigger sample memory, especially if you have transient events to find. Personally, I found the ability to decode I2C, serial data etc on the fly useful in debugging, but it depends on your needs. Oh, and the 12.1" screen on the agilent scopes is a pleasure to use.
Same comment as on virtually every Ask Slashdot since the beginning of time: we really need more info. Does "university physics lab" mean a research lab, or a teaching lab? If the latter, then ease of use and durability extremely important. You want a UI that's easy and simple. On the scopes we use in our teaching labs, we tend to have a lot of problems with the BNC connectors getting damaged because students don't understand how to put on and take off the connectors.
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I'll start with the open admission that I've worked on Tektronix scope platforms, including software UI development, for the last 7 years or so. That said, our scopes really are the best! Here's why.
Many of the Tek scopes, especially the lower bandwidth ones, really shy away from loads of options menus to get at items. We still have the knob-per-channel ideas, and I know from user testing that's always heavily favored.
Recently (last 2 years) we've also gotten into the pan/zoom knob that makes it far, far easier to look at record lengths. I personally use that feature a lot when I've got high speed stuff over a long time (like SPI transactions compared against analog signals moving around)
Most of the Agilent/Lecroy stuff don't have these two big items (those are my big payoffs).
Also, although I can't speak to Agilent/Lecroy, I know that we release updated firmware on a very regular basis, and have no plans to stop. We continue to improve the UI, performance, applications, etc., long after the product is released. Many of the changes are often directly from user feedback (internal and external).
Another nice part is the Tektronix instruments are very well plugged in driver wise to communicate with them. We've got IVI drivers for labview/teststand, as well as a host of others.
What some of the other posters said is true as well - what really defines what you should get isn't always the UI, but the bandwidth and other features that you need. If you just need slow speed (~10 MHz) then a cheap solution might be just fine.
Our designs do have their flaws, but usability is rarely one I hear of.
Tektronics Earth Grounds their signal ground.
This makes for a Safer but much less functional scope. You need 2 channels to measure a voltage relative to a non earth ground.
Hands down, LeCroy is the best bank for the buck you'll see out there right now. The UIs are elegant, intuitive, and feature rich. They will come demo the scope and even loan you one if you ask nicely.
Check them out. We have tons of Tek Scopes collecting dust because we all fight over the LeCroys. Hah..
Do you need a $2,000 oscilloscope or a $200,000 oscilloscope?
How many channels? What bandwidth? What characteristics will you be looking at?
I've found LeCroy to have the best interface for "power users" on their high end scopes.
For general usage any major manufacturer will be fine.
Intended usage is really important here, find out what you'll be doing with it.
I will warn you that some of the high-end Agilents are all but useless without a mouse hooked up and that's a PITA plus eats bench space. Scopes with touch screens are much better. Lower end scopes generally have all the buttons they need to be useful.
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Do what my TA's do. Create a Wheatstone bridge and have your students ride an exercise bike until current balances out. The speed's your curve.
Everyone expressing an opinion based on experience is dead right, teddaw152 - I've used all three and can say I see no BS.
But you're missing a most important criterion - how easy will it be to offload your data, because I don't care what you think your requirement is or will be, you're going to need this badly - or the next user will.
For any given model of features/performance/price tickling your fancy, insist to see the full configuration used to offload data to a PC.
I'm dead serious, full configuration. Do not ever accept rep claims of way-easy-all-our-customers-do-it, do not accept quick looks at user manuals showing code slices that make it all so obvious.
Do not accept that USB, GPIB, or Ethernet obviously imply that you can do this.
Do require code that:
1. Is in a language that your site will support long term
2. Allows for external configuration of the scope
3. Allows for external software trigger of recording
4. Allows for data acquisition by a PC
5. Allows for usable data, post acquisition
PLEASE USE THIS DEFINITION ONLY FOR THE WORDS "Allows for" IN THE ABOVE:
1. Full source code in your selected language
2. Full clarity of hardware interface required - price, performance and gotchas
3. You get a peer review of this
For "usable data" this damn well means that the data feed of (usually) start-time, stop-time, delta-time and Y values or X-Y pairs can not only be read in, they can be easily read in, easily put into another format, and easily absorbed by other post-processing software.
And for god's sake, make sure that status register and SRQ handling - in software - is clearly explained, and that you get routines for SRQ handling, and THE RULES FOR WHEN TO USE SRQs or NOT (typical GPIB issue).
I disclose that I have inside info on the brands you consider so I can only give these hints on approaching the problem. I cannot be trusted to be objective - due to associations - on saying which brands/models excel on this.
But I can be trusted to tell you this - your rep for any given brand will shuck and jive a *little* (and that really is an OK thing, it's a people skill), and he/she will give you assurances out the yin-yang (that's their job) - but they fucking-a well know what you're asking and will give you the straight dope if you are friendly while being persistent.
Please believe me, if you overlook this criterion now, you're almost guaranteed to screw the next guys after you - I don't believe you'd want that if you had a choice.
Cheers, best luck.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
I've used several models of all three brands in my career and as a student. Of all the scopes, I liked the LeCroys best. They seemed to have better performance and more features than the others, but I know that is highly dependent on how much money you fork out for the scope.
The Student Button is absolutely essential if it is for undergraduate student use. On the oscilloscopes at my university, it is labelled "Auto Set". It doesn't always do what you want or expect it to, but it has certainly saved me a number of times.
I am still using a 1961 Tektronix Scope. There is something special about using a piece of equipment that was being used before I was born.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
I have the answer for you, but I'm not going to tell you.
I've been tasked with
No, you're an idiot who has been given a task.
"Task" is not a verb.
Your ability to read and measure low-level signals will depend on a low noise floor in your 'scope. How low-level will your lab be interested in displaying? Make sure the devices you're considering aren't displaying significant switching noise and sampling artifacts in those ranges. My unpleasant surprise (admittedly, a decade old -- things will have hopefully improved by now) was a digital Tektronix where the lowest ranges, right where I was trying to look at input stages, were too grassy for my purposes, and that unit was a self-contained instrument. I keep a lowly refurbished Tektronix 465 on hand for analog work for just that reason.
Picking a logic analyzer is a harder problem. A logic analyzer is a device for collecting and reducing many channels of parallel digital data coming in from a device under test. The data reduction part is a hard problem. There's a vast amount of data coming in, and you need to find the interesting/important/wrong stuff. It's really a form of log analysis.
Some logic analyzers are just input devices to PCs. There's an open source logic analyzer program for use with such capture devices. Take a look at this for some USB-based interface hardware. They also offer some units that can emulate a scope in hardware. For a real entry-level product, see this low end unit. There's a demo video.
Cost goes up with data rate and channels captured. If you need to look at 10GHz signals, it's going to cost you. 10 MHz, quite cheap.
What do you want a logic analyzer for, anyway?
I'm an electronics hobbyist, and I mostly play with DC stuff... but occasionally I would really like to see the waveform of some components.
Is there a really cheap scope I could get to do this? Every time I have looked in the past they start at $200 or so. Are there any basic scopes for under $100?
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
The new LeCroy WavePro Zi scopes are amazing. I've never used anything that responds to input so fast. There's no downtime between when you ask it to do something (measurement, change timebase, etc) to when it does it. If you call the sales people they'll bring one to you for a test run.
...has a bunch of Rigol DS1000 series scopes. They are somewhat basic, only 50MHz with 2 inputs. The nice thing about them is they have a USB interface which we use for screen captures to jazz-up our lab reports. A quick search turns up educational pricing in the $700 range.
Can it play tennis?
National Instruments makes some cool PCI and USB oscilloscopes. They are small and you use them from a UI. What's really cool about them is that it's trivially easy to write a program to control them (using C, LabVIEW, VB, .Net, etc) and to retrieve waveforms to the computer as an array.
You should check those out.
If you don't need some ultra high bandwidth > 1000MHz then consider a used scope. Lots can be had on ebay for pennies on the dollar.
Logic analyzers the same applies.
USB and cd burner for output. Ethernet if you are brave enough to put something like that on the web. I do not since I don't want to deal with patches on my scope. Sort of hard to explain a warez or pron sever on your test equipment to the IT security goons.
Nice math features. UNLIKE stupid techtronix scopes, the trigger ACTUALLY TRIGGERS like a sane person expects it to. The only good thing I can say about techtronix is that I can get schematics and they use less exotic parts than others. Also, I've seen them knocked off work benches by undergrads and still work.
The big bonus on the Lecroy was the all-so-handy magic blue "auto" button for easy setup that does a decent job of setting the timebase and voltages to catch your signal most of the time.
I was stuck between the HP and LeCroy for a while but HP's customer dis-service made up my mind for me in a hurry. (HP, Agilient, Avantgoober, what the-hell-ever they are calling it now--it's all the same. Another company leaving skidmarks as it circles the bowl on it's way to China. By the way: THANKS Carly Fiorina for destroying a decent company for short-term profits. Nice job asshole. Not surprised John McCluless had you as a campaign advisor... Your kind sucks for what it has done to our country and I hope you loose every cent in this economic meltdown you helped cause.) I miss the old HP. I want the old HP back.
There, I feel a little better.
Anyway, Lecroy let me try their unit out for a week and it had all the features I wanted. Had it for three years and just love it. In fact, I had to chain it to my bench in the electronics area to keep it there since grad students were sneaking in while I was on lunch and borrowing it. That's probably the best testimonial that can be said for it, since they have Agilent and Tec scopes in the lab my scope keeps vanishing into.
Why don't you determine what your going to use it for, then contact the different manufacturers with your requirements, ask what they suggest for your application and budget. Then have them send you demo units. You can compare them, hands on, for a week or two. They may even send a rep by and walk you through using the scope.
Seriously. I mean, I understand why people ask certain questions here. Namely, those computer related. Lots of those types here. But, asking such a question as you have just underlines that your department has tasked exactly the wrong person for the job. Tell them this and do something, if anything, that your qualified for.
Within the past 5 years, I've used modern (less than 10 years old) scopes made by LeCroy, Agilent, and Tektronix. I've also purchased a few and have always purchased LeCroy scopes for a few reasons.
1. Ease of use: every new scope has big bright color LCD screens, not every scope has the buttons you need. I don't want to have to find my way through multiple levels of soft menus using only four buttons so that I can change the trigger source. LeCroy scopes have enough buttons to allow me to work without too many to clog the interface
2. Standard Features; LeCroy generally has at least some math features like FFT built-in, not as a add-on.
3. Ease of downloading data: For research today, you're going to download the data and do other processing with it. I've found it easier to interface with LeCroy scopes than Tektronix. However, this is one area I haven't evaluated Agilent scopes.
Of course, you should realize that most scopes are now Windows computers with a specialty ADC card. You can possibly save money without sacrificing features by going directly to a digitizer card from Gage or NI. Also, note that most scopes are 8-bit resolution analog-to-digital converters, if you need more resolutions, consider a digitizer card.
Make sure you get the physicists scopes that measure current going in the opposite direction.
But seriously, you can't got wrong with Tek scopes they are everywhere, a good interface to learn, but not cheap. As far as analyzers, really depends on your needs and once again budget...
I feel like the norm is Tek scopes, Agilent (HP) analyzers, counters, supplies...Not that it's the best, just what I've used and seen throughout the years.
Just find your local sales reps, they'll gladly loan you some.
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -Homer Simpson
Our university research lab has over 20 Agilent Infinum scopes ranging from 4 MSa/s to 40 GSa/s. We used to use Tektronix in the analog days and we still have 1 Tektronix 40 GSa/s digital scope that is ~5 years old. I can't say much bad about the Tektronix other than I don't care for the interface, but that could be because I learned on a Infinum. Capability wise I think they're pretty similar. I saw a demonstration from LeCroy at a conference and they looked flashy, but when I asked my boss about them he said they were raging pieces of shit... I didn't follow up on it.
So I would pick the Infinums if only because my boss likes them enough to buy over $300k of them and he is way smarter than me, seriously a fricken electronics genius. We just bought 11 more last week.
oh and on a side note our lab does plasma physics and microwave research if this helps.
I highly doubt that you will find ...
(1) *qualified* people who've used oscilloscopes from all three of these manufacturers
(2) *and* who are willing to take the time to write out a lengthy reply to your questions.
You are, however, likely to find people who've used 1 brand (largely because their employers/universities had a contract with a specific supplier). So you may get some firm opinions about one company or another, but probably not much unbiased consensus.
So, the only way to form a complete, impartial comparison is for you to try out the scopes yourself; contact an authorized dealer for each of the major manufacturers, and ask to try out the models in your price range.
Doing your own due diligence is the only way that you'll be able to answer your questions to any high degree of satisfaction. This isn't an example of where you should trust random comments from the interwebz to help you do your job.
It depends on what type of wave forms you want to see and the frequency of those waveforms. Talk to a Prof in the Electrical Engineering dept. Show them what you want you want to see with the scope. They can help you decide what type you want.
Keep it as simple as possible. Scopes overloaded with features make good desk ornaments. I've used many kinds and prefer Tektronix.
Do the same for the logic analyzer. That could mean almost anything from a logic probe to a buss state analyzer.
I'm a big fan of the tektronics scopes with the USB ports built into them. While not necessarily user-interface specific, it makes reproducing traces and results a cinch for projects and presentations.
The only persons opinion that matters is yours, and the only way you can really make a decision is to try out the hardware. Call your local reps and have them come in and give you a demo. Most of the time you can get them to give you a loaner for a few days to really get the feel for it. You may even be able to get them in at the same time and compare them side by side. If you are spending enough cash they will bend over backwards to accommodate you. This is the way I've picked scopes in the past.
0s 303g is the best one i have used. its also a computer. the ones i use run w2k, but one nifty perk is you can use the mouse to find different events you are looking for in a signal.
I Am Not An Electrical Engineer, but I am looking at getting deeper into electronics (I got my Extra Class Ham Radio license recently). I have seen this:
http://www.saleae.com/logic/
And this:
http://www.syscompdesign.com/circuitgear.htm
That at the hobbyist level look affordable and functional, but I have no background to really evaluate them. Perhaps this is on-topic for this story?
Does anyone know if they are even worth a try?
Scopes depend on what you're looking for.
The input impedance is 1 to 10 Mohm when using mixed signal scope where you can measure lower speed signals up to 500MHz +.
The input impedance is much lower, like 50 ohms, when measuring REAL TIME multi-gigabit signals. Those scopes (Agilent, LeCroy, Tek) tend to have built-in programs to analyze: DDR2, Ethernet (IEEE spec), 8b/10b encoded communications (like Fibrechannel, 10Gb XAUI, PCIexpress, Hypertransport), and more). If properly grounded in a test environment, you can measure clock jitter in units pf femtoseconds.
It really depends on how multi-purpose you want your scopes. There's even equivalent time scopes that are better for measuring higher speed signals up to 40Gb/s. Equiv time are better at measuring repetitive signals.
So it depends. As the other readers above. I highly recommend getting a demo of all the scopes and loaners from the equipment manufacturers.
From a cost perspective (probably subjective, but some experience base).
Lecroy = highest cost but has highest performance features for some users
Agilent = medium price, but potentially has better user interfaces than the others
Tek = lower cost than Agilent on $100K scopes, high performance if it's suited for your application/testing.
As an EE, I use 2 tools. The 1 to 10Mohm utility scopes because they can measure anything at real time up to a limited bandwidth but also can perform some basic logic analyzer functions like decode SPI, serial or I2C.
The other is the expensive $100k+ scope which is best when measuring high speed single ended busses and differential busses.
If your physics labs prefer to use frequency domain equipment, then none of the above that I've mentioned is useful. It's mostly just network analyzers and spreadspectrum equipment.
Talk to your vendor, and get them all to compete.
Color; 4 channels The scope trace color matches the colored channel button that matched the colored c clip on the scope probe. As simple as this sounds it simplifies debug by asking which probe is attached to which channel. USB port for saving images. Ethernet port for connecting to the network. Battery operation mode.. AS previously mentioned if you are buying more than 1 scope buy the exact same type. It simplifies user interface issues. Buy 8 probes, the kind without legs..... Convince your bosses to get an external current probe and amplifier. It is cool to actually have data to prove Ohm's law. That's real physics....
If you're looking for basic oscilloscope and function generator applications, and some analysis, you might want to check out the Mobile Studio project: http://www.mobilestudioproject.com/ I think it would at least be decent for students to play around with in a lab, and pretty cheap (about $150). If you're looking for serious lab tools, I suppose you might want something more high-end...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've literally used many hundreds of oscopes, maybe a thousand, going back to the old tek 7000 series (with polaroid cameras) and had my hands on one of Lecroys first (before they made scopes, they made CAMAC based digitizers and I used the first of those). I've used HP, Agilent, Philips, Tektronix, Lecroy, and several off brands too. User interface is interesting, but you get used to whatever you have. Data capture depth is important, but most capture enough for most apps. And all are readable with computer software and talk pretty much the same language: SCPI. The _most_ important thing is: can you capture the waveform you are interested in? That is primarily a function of the scope's trigger. Now, it's been a couple of years since I had the opportunity to compare them all, but I can say, for the past 30+ years, no one has a better trigger than Tektronix. That was true back in the 70's, true in the 80's, true in the 90's and still true today. My personal scope at home is a $5000 Tek. I would never recommend anything else.
Since you're in a physics lab, maybe you have a physicist or some students (or even another department on campus) which you can work together with. Maybe the University already has a support contract or discounts with certain vendors in another department or the end users would like to work with some specific brand for whatever reason.
Listen to your end users (what do they need, especially if you're working with higher frequency or digital stuff), stay well within your budget (all of a sudden you'll notice that some functionality on the new scopes is missing or you need to buy some converters or specific probes) and make sure you plan for the future.
Make sure you have some type of support contract if you buy more than one and you have more than a standard 1y warranty.
Make sure the scope interface (as most modern ones do interface to a computer) is available on your computers and future-proof (don't go for RS-232 or parallel port ones or worse, those with their own interfaces). Make sure it is compatible or comes with some open source software as well (preferably interface using SCPI). I had to use a digital storage "scope" once in a school (they're dirt cheap) and the only software available was for Windows 95 and it didn't work with anything else. It's a pain finding a computer and the installation disks for something like that.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
I'm a bit biased, but I'm a big fan of these:
http://www.ni.com/digitizers/
modular, (usually) cheaper, and the UI can be a normal scope interface or it be anything you want with LabVIEW.
You report, Slashdot decides
Prevueing you're poast ownly hellps iff ewe no how two spel inn teh furst plase
In my humble opinion (and those of a Mil-Spec standards lab, whom is the people that influenced my purchases):
Tektronix for scopes.
Fluke for any metering
HP for frequency counters.
Anything less, is, well.... Less.
Yes, you pay for them, but..
And the other brands you mentioned, probably just as good. I'd say, go to Fry's (they actually have some setup, here in SoCal) or your local electronics shop, and find the scope that has the interface you like. Bring a small sig generator to be able to play with the devices (a simple two or three function audio gen will work fine, you just want to see which one has the "better" interface for you).
Hope that helps.... It's what I use.
--Toll_Free, the electronics geek trucking company owner that hits walls on a motorcycle :)~
Meanwhile, the older all-analog models, without all the bells & whistles, are still working fine to this day. All they need is calibration every few years, if you're picky about that sort of thing. I'm willing to bet that there are a lot more HP 465B's still running in this world than there are HP models built just 15 years ago.
Now get off my lawn
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I feel that the agilent scopes that run windows are a pain in the posterior quarter and in some ways seem to be a step backwards from the old analog scopes
I've been using numerous lab oscilloscopes for 40 years and the first stop is to check your budget. Having done that, you should be aware that Tek and Agilent are the two main players. It's like choosing between Nikon and Canon for a big DSLR. Get a demo from each, of a scope that fits your budget and it's then a matter of your own intangibles. I prefer Tek, but that's just me. Assuming that you can afford a scope of suitable bandwidth and capture rate, you'll want USB, and the larger the screen, the better. You may or may not need deep capture, but it's better to have too much memory depth than too little. Expect to spend at least $15k new to get a decent low end scope with probes, etc. Used may be acceptable given reputable sources. Cheers Art
I've used high-end ($10k) LeCroys, high- and medium-end Aglients, and medium/low-end Tektronixes. Summary:
LeCroy: TERRIBLE user interface. Sure they're super-high-performance, but the controls are laggy, the menus are next to impossible to navigate, and the fact that the whole thing runs on Windows is just annoying. I would never ever ever recommend these for a university lab.
Tektronix: Okay. Their menus are easy enough to navigate, but their front panel could use some work. IIRC color is expensive with them too.
Agilent: BEAUTIFUL. Beautiful menus. Beautiful front panel (separate controls for each channel instead of "soft" controls like Tek). Lovely "zooming" feature. Snappy controls. And their weight makes them less likely to be knocked on the ground. Definitely recommend for a university lab. And their mixed-signal scopes are a gem.
While I think your claim about connecting cables was just a joke at the so called audiophiles' expense it is actually worth thinking about for oscilloscopes.
There is a real difference between an expensive probe and a cheap probe for an oscilloscope. When you are trying to measure multi GHz signals you really do need expensive cables and probes...
Go fuck yourself, we don't need users like you clogging up the support channels for people with actual need.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
My previous life had me using 'scopes every day. My experience: HP/Agillent got into the business because of a decision by the Navy, not because they built good scopes. I love everything else they make but...
Tektronix, on the other hand, builds scopes you can beat the crap out of. I'm talking "put it on the back of a golf cart and drag it around an accelerator" or "I'm in the middle of a desert and I need a scope" crap out of. Reliable as hell, and thats a critical thing for a school. My engineering department had us sleeping on lab benches to wait to get access to the few working Siemens logic analyzers, so reliability is key.
Pay the money, go with Tek. They'll work well, and continue to work.
At my university, Tektronics is a major donor, and every scope is a Tektronics model. They run from the most basic scopes to complex ones with built in Windows operating systems, CD drives, and USB ports. We have had great experiences with Tektronics. If they have a model with the features you are looking for, in the price range you are looking for, I would definitely go with them.
Now get off my lawn!
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
If you are only considering user interface, the answer is easy:
HP/Agilent is the worst
Tek is the best
LeCroy falls somewhere in between
By all means, take the test drive, but in 2 weeks you will agree with me.
While the user interface IS important, there are other features that are
important to your users. What is the width (# of bits) and how fast is the
ADC(s) ? How deep is the memory? Can you save waveforms on floppy/thumb drive/
network ? Can you zoom ? Will the scope trigger reliably? And a host of others.
And, as with most things, each fancy feature comes at a cost. There might
be some benefit in weighing the needs of your users with your budget (and also
consider that all three manufacturers have a university discount program)
So, wisely consider all of the above, then go buy the Tektronix :-)
First, almost all oscilloscopes today are very spcialized, and targeted to a specific task. (from OTDR and MTDR's to Logic analyzers). So dont expect students to get much industry specific experience by using a general purpose scope.
About the only place for a generic scope must be a school physics lab. And even in school, I would imagine only physics 101 would need a generic scope, and even here, circuit simulators and scope simulators are much easier and better to use.
That said, if a basic scope will do, a Tektronix TDS1000B or similar from other companies will allow a student to get an understanging of how a basic scope works.
My advice otherwise would be to use scope and logic simulators for all entry level classes, and buy the equipment you need for specific research projects. This way you will have one scope for your 70GHz radar system, one logical anlyzer for your 40Gb optical network, and so on.
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
As many have observed, it seems that many/most mid-range to higher-end scopes are running windows. Are there any of these manufacturers not using windows as the OS for the scope, at least for some of the models?
cant really say i have used oscilliscopes of other mayor brands than agilent, but i have that http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-536902753.0.00&cc=US&lc=eng at work. fancy enough for what i do. ui running on widnows i really quite useful, lets you access the os via remote desktop etc. beats the old school oscilliscopes any time.
Hi bandwidth, high sampling rate, 2-4 channels
Digital cursors and quick measure
Those are obvious probably...
Color LCD is nice, but not necessary
Some of the new scopes have USB ports on the front for a flash drive. They'll capture whatever waveform is on the scope to a PNG along with a CSV so you can dump the data directly into excel or whatever.
Most of the EE labs at Cal Poly SLO are using Agilent scopes that are at least 4 years old (probably more like 10). They don't have color and they don't have usb but they work well for everything we do.
The Power Electronics lab just got some really nice new scopes, GW Instek GDS-2204.
http://www.instek.com/db/Sheet/GDS-2204_sheet.pdf
I think they're like $2700.
Good luck.
As a longtime Tek user/buyer, I brought in LeCroy this summer to help our negotiating position with Tektronix. However, the team and I were blown away by the LeCroy's ease of use. Time to configure for the types of triggered events, jitter analysis, and other functions we were interested in was much shorter on the LeCroy. The results were presented better, too. Overall, I got the impression that every feature, including deep memory, was carefully thought out and truly usable.
The Tek in the same class had more triggering features, which we estimated we had a 10%-20% chance of needing. Ultimately we purchased a couple LeCroy models (SDA6020 and WAVERUNNER 104MXI) and decided we would temporarily rent a Tek if the need arose.
Obviously context matters...in this case we were doing board-level design for high-performance storage products.
Of course, now that we have ours, LeCroy's newest models allow you to unclip the controls from the front panel and place them right next to the circuit you are probing. That would be seriously handy.
I use oscilloscopes almost daily in my job as an EE, and I've found that I very much prefer the scopes that don't use Windows in any shape or form to the ones that do. If a scope requires a mouse, it's really a portable computer with an integrated DAC subsystem. You have to wait for it to boot up and shut down, and you have to have the flat space necessary to drive the mouse (or use a trackball). They are also generally less responsive to input and take longer to change modes than an embedded-system style scope.
My current desk unit is a Tektronix MSO 4054, which is ideal for what I do. Everything is adjusted using good old-fashioned knobs and buttons on the front panel. I also use several higher-end Teks that run Windows and various Agilent scopes, both from the 54600-series and the Infinium series.
It's true that the Windows-based scopes can often run other software and do more detailed analysis of data. However, I prefer to use the scope to acquire data, store it on a USB drive and then do that analysis at my desk later using my main computer.
In our corporate environment, having oscilloscopes on the network is frowned upon by our IT.
My dislike for oscilloscopes that run Windows is shared by most of my EE and technician colleagues. Non-EE types (physicists, MEs) seem to like the Windows interface because they use the scopes less often and they feel more at home with a PC-like interface.
In another vein, I despise touch screens. This is simply my personal preference, as I realize that many people like the way they link the data on screen to actions. I just hate fingerprints, and the tactile feedback provided by real buttons and knobs is far superior in my mind.
We bought HAMEG (HM2008) scopes. They are mixed Analog/Digital and provide very good value for money.
HAMs tend to buy older analog equipment, not because it is cheaper, but because they can repair and calibrate it themselves!
If a newer digital model fails, it often comes down to replacing the unit because the faulty integrated circuits can't be bought (custom job) or are very expensive.
An analog scope (say, an old Tek) can be kept going indefinately, because parts are readily available and cheap (think sub-dollar). As the schematics are available and easy enought to follow, even a moderately experienced tech/HAM can repair them.
At work we have a selection of all three of those brands. I personally prefer the Tekronix interface, as I find it more intuitive
Like Agilent scopes better. At my school, the physics department has two different models of Tektronix scopes, the only difference being that one model can save results to a usb drive. The only problem I've had with them is that they sometimes format the damn usb drive, so you sometimes have to continually swap it out and download the data to a computer, which kind of defeats the purpose (a bit). So, to minimize the problem of people's usb drives and data getting eaten, the lab profs decided to get their own usb drives, which promptly resulted in a few of the usb drives rapidly evolving legs and running out of the room (they were stolen for those of you with no sense of humor). Both models of Tektronix scopes will lie to you if you hit the autoset button.
The engineering department at my school has Agilent scopes, and while they are larger (though they aren't stationary), they have a slightly more intuitive interface. They also don't format usb drives willy nilly without warning you and making sure you know whats going on. They autocalibrate their own probes, and they have storage space for the manual and probes in a compartment on top. Their autoset buttons are better than the Tektronix scopes, but still ended up giving me garbage settings on a few signals. I do vaguely remember somebody having to learn to use the interface and having a little trouble with it, but in a class of 18, that was probably not statistically significant.
My impression was that the Agilent folks had to use their own instruments, which gave them the incentive to go that extra tweak in UI improvement. They also had a spinning wheel for when the drive was being accessed, similar to the Apple beachball. Which looked cool even if it didn't serve a useful purpose.
Disclaimer: I have a few friends that work at Agilent, and love it. I had tried to get a job at Agilent for the summer, but was turned down. I even baked them a cake.
I've used both tektronix and lecroy scopes, and my findings may depend more on the particular scope than brand.
The lecroy scopes all had a more in depth interface, requiring use of menus, and such, whereas the tektronix scopes had more real buttons and knobs, which was both simpler and faster.
YMMV
Does anyone have an opinion about PC based oscilloscopes? I'm studying electrical engineering and would like to get an oscilloscope at some stage, and I believe PC based oscilloscopes are meant to be cheaper. Obviously it requires you to have a computer, but I would imagine I'd mostly use it at home so that wouldn't be a huge problem. Also, do they work well with Linux?
I've been most impressed with the accuracy of Yokogawa scopes. They've easily compared to the best multimeter I've used for DC readings.
And the precision for an 8 bit sampler blew me away. The lines are so clean and far higher resolution than 8 bits would normally allow.
My preference is for hp (agilent) logic analyzers and tek scopes. If you don't need more that 1ghz bw, buy a tek dpo4000 series scope. It doesn't run windows so it boots pretty quickly. The user interface can be a little clunky at times, but it is usable. The screen is nice and big and bright.
Definitely get eval units of the models you are interested in. They will loan them to you to play with for a week or so.
Also have them check the refurb inventory. You can save a bunch of money and get nearly new or brand new left over units.
I'd say go with Agilent. Many have commented that they are more expensive, but that's not true for Universities, they have very good educational discounts (often 20%), talk to an Agilent rep.
I've used a 6000 series, they're very nice, and have plenty of knobs for each function. Try to avoid scopes that use one big encoder knob (or a small number of knobs) for everything. My Tek 3034 has this problem.
I work for a medical device company and we have been using tektronix with very little trouble for several years. Our basic run of the mill scope is a TDS3012. These are always in-stock at newark and are very easy to use. If you need greater bandwidth and higher resolution, go with a 5000 series.
I can definitely recommend Yokogawa DL series. All of them in fact. Awesome user interface. Deep memories. Super fast updating of the screen makes them feel very analog.
Stay away from any DSO under $5k. They are usually crippled by either short memories, lo res displays, or pathetic real time updating.
I recommend you have at least 500k deep memory, >15 screen updates per second and VGA or better resolution.
46137
I tried linux a while back as well and... well it wasn't for me. To each his own I guess :)
This is the sig that says NI (again)
I don't know what your bandwidth needs are.
Our department has 20 scopes across several brands, and I have a few more myself.
The Tektronix 3000 series is the most common thing out there. It's nearly a standard. One of the many things I like about them is they're not Windows-based -- at least none of ours are -- so you don't have anywhere nearly the same problems getting them as network-secured as the IT staff wants them. (Many windows-based scopes are not easily software-upgradeable, because the custom hardware they have. It cost us about $10,000 to go from W2K to WXP on one of our Tek 5000-series.)
The Tek 7000-series is lovely but requires a lot of learning and active (read: $$$) probes. You can't just throw a standard old probe on there and use it at reduced bandwidth.
I like LeCroy because they're comparatively easy to repair and reasonably easy to use. I have a 350mhz lecroy at home and have had it apart, replaced input buffers on it, stuff like that. (It was beat up when I bought it, used.) They have a reasonably intuitive user interface. It's harder to get support because they're not US-based.
I worked for HP/Agilent in their instruments division, so I *should* like their scopes, and I have two old Agilent analogs at home. But I don't like the new ones. Shrug. The engineering's still good: they look good internally.
I will say, although you didn't mention it, that Yokogawa scopes are *very* nice, especially if you're doing any work with serial communications, but the interface is really, really strange. I honestly wonder if there's a fundamental difference in the designer mindset.
With all that said, the single scope I like the best is the TDS3000 series, for one reason: it has an internal webserver. You don't have to load any software on anything: you just plug it in, it runs DHCP, and you can control it and get results from it from any computer on the network, using a browser. That's really convenient. Difficult to get past IT because it's not a Windows machine and there's no hint of what sort of vulnerabilities it might have. But they're easy to use, if their bandwidth limitations are acceptable.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
One of the most important thing anyone in a skilled trade can learn, is how to use their tools effectively and not just that specific model of tool, but the tool generally.
I have had numerous technicians (Test Equipment Calibration), that come in with a couple of years experience and have no clue on how to really use the scope. They attach the source of the waveform and hit, "auto", boom there it is. Seeing as you are in an educational environment, you might want to find the balance between luxury and education. I learned on the Tek 2246 and the 2430A, not all spiffy but I sure can use a scope. If that is beyond the scope of your lab, then disregard my comment all together.
I have used both the Textronix TDS620A and Agilent Infineium(sp), they are both great scopes. I did like the probe set on the Agilent much better though.
How about inviting the local engineers from the various companies to demonstrate what they can do? You'll get a hands-on experience with each option and with the rep right in front of you, you'll be able to determine if their product is well suited for your application. I know that the guys/gals at NI (www.ni.com) would be more than happy to give you a one-on-one demo of logic analyzers and high-speed digitizers (o-scopes). I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Happy hunting!
I work for an independent commercial calibration lab. We repair and calibrate electronic test equipment of all makes and models. Our best lab scope, the best I've ever used in 24 years in the business, is an Agilent DSO6102A. Since you mentioned a need for logic analysis, I would look at the MSO models, which include a 16-channel digital input and logic analysis functions.
The user interface is very intuitive and easy to use, including advanced features like MegaZoom, which allows you to capture miles of data, freeze it, expand it to incredible detail, and quickly scroll through it. There is a "quick measurement" function which performs many commonly-measured parameters automatically, up to three at once, on the displayed waveform in real-time. For other measurements, there are manually-controlled horizontal and vertical markers which you can use to measure, for instance, the timing between the first and last pulse of a long series of pulses quickly and accurately using MegaZoom to zoom out, locate the first pulse, zoom in to accurately place the first marker, then repeat for the second pulse. The measurement accuracy is excellent. For logic analysis, you can trigger the scope on logic patterns which you specify.
Hope this helps!
Scott Dunbar
Hello, What are you looking to do with your oscilloscope? What bandwidth needs do you have and features? Also what is your budget? I know there are a lot of questions on this, but there are advantages/disadvantages to different companies depending on what bandwidth you are looking at. I have done very intensive research of a number of scope companies (Agilent, LeCroy, Tektronix, Yokogawa), even looked at Rigol, so hopefully I can help you out. Thanks, WyoStud
Spent a minute trying to understand the above comment... it must be a joke. Straight diagonal lines would be a characteristic of a digital storage scope with serious Analog-to-Digital converter problems.
Although it wouldn't be used in a university physics lab, I suggest Slashdot readers download a free PC sound-card-oscilloscope program. They are basically *free* Digital Storage Scopes with a limited input frequency of 44KHz to 96KHz depending on the particular sound chip in the PC. Many of these programs include spectrum analysis and FFT features.
These are invaluable for audio and other low frequency work. It's necessary to scale the input to the sound card to about 1-2 volts peak-to-peak max, because these programs are working with the audio line-input signal. A couple of $0.40 op-amps work fine. I've used *free* sound card oscilloscopes to verify MIDI in/out streams from synthesizers, RS-232 signals, and the design/repair/calibration of hundreds of guitar stompbox circuits.
If you use something like http://www.vosssci.com/products/daaac/daaac.html which controls scopes via GPIB then the scope gui doesn't matter much. You never even have to touch the scope except to power it up. This allows you to use multiple scopes at the same time and you don't have to learn each scope, just the software package.
I have a physics degree, have worked in basic research, and currently work as a EE.
I own a Tektronix TDS1012 (low end) which I chose to spend my own money on over the Agilent equivalent, haven't used a high-end scope since the nineties, and have rented midrange Agilent and Tektronix scopes for jobs that needed them in the last five years or so, but not in the last two.
From a UI standpoint I've found the Tektronix scopes to "feel" more like an analog scope than the Agilent models. The controls are where you'd expect, and the menus correlate to traditional analog scope settings. I.e. the button for "ch 1 menu" brings up, surprise, the settings that would be grouped together with the channel 1 position and volts/div dials on an analog scope. I don't recall how the Agilents were different, only that they were just awkward enough to be annoying.
Both Agilent and Tektronix scopes have been sort of a pain in the butt to hook up to a PC. There's always at least one little thing that keeps the process from being perfectly smooth. Having used the 30-day demos, I liked Agilent's PC interface software whose name I forget better than Tektronix's "Wavestar". I wouldn't pay money for either one, though: I'd pay the extra for LabView instead.
The nicest thing though about the mid-range Agilent scope I rented was that it had an SVGA port as standard on the back. This is or was only available as an option on the mid-range Tek scopes. Hooking it up to a 20" monitor made it real easy for four people, including one with bad eyesight, to examine and discuss measurements without having to fuss with a PC interface.
The hardcore analog guys I know tend to like LeCroy a hair better than Tektronix these days and to disregard Agilent's offerings. I've never used a LeCroy myself.
With all the budget shortfalls in education these days, I would start by contacting the manufacturers and finding out who will provide the equipment free or at steep discounts. They will all have similar functionality. When I was in school, our labs were full of Tek equipment. Scopes, logic analyzers, transistor test equipment, we even had high end graphic terminals and color output devices that were made by what is now Xerox Wilsonville, but was then Tektronix. Much of it had been donated. Tek and HP each hired a lot of our EE grads. HP didn't seem to mind that almost all of our test equipment experience was on Tek equipment (but they didn't hire me...).
Tektronix is where it's at
Here in the US, oscilloscopes are often sold by traditional salesmen. Decent, new, scopes are high-ticket, high-margin items and with little difficulty, you can ask sales reps from each of the companies you're considering to come by with a demo unit to show off, and possibly loan to you for a while. The downside is that you'll get the physical equivalent of spam, the visiting salesman, bugging you until you make a decision, and then periodically thereafter.
This advice counts extra if you're buying more than one or two units.
If you're looking for basic debugging scopes (not HF, digital sampling, etc.) then get used, recalibrated Tek equipment. That's what I did for my lab. Really good UI, good performance, reliable, but doesn't do any of the fancy stuff like real-time FFT, sampling, ethernet dumps, etc.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
We neeed a new modderation feature to ifx typos and speling misteks in the storys.
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I have use many Tek scopes over the years and really like them. I purchased a refurbed model for home use. I have not used a LeCroy. I have also used some old HP scopes and found them lacking.
For logic analyzers, all my experience has been with the HPs. The ones I have used work well.
I suggest you have the vendors bring in some models you can afford and try them out on real problems. For lab use, all the scopes I use remember the last setting and can also have setups stored so they can be configured ahead of time for lab usage.
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A good scope interface should have physical knobs and buttons for the commonly used analog settings: vertical, horizontal, and triggering settings. Most everything else should be squirreled away in logical menus.
For advanced serial triggering and analysis, settings get complicated quickly, which is part of the reason high end scopes are PC based.
If you are doing multi-channel measurements, a color display is handy. Fortunately, only the cheapest of modern scopes are monochrome.