Nintendo Blocks Homebrew Installation

ElementC writes "Sometime yesterday Nintendo uploaded the latest Wii system update. This update quietly patches a few bugs that allowed the installation of both homebrew and warez apps. Currently installed apps such as the Homebrew Channel and the video DVD library, DVDX, are reportedly not affected. Those not installing this update are blocked out of the Wii Shop channel and in the future may be blocked out of certain games. Team Twiizers cracked the last update within about eight hours. They're already on the case. Readers familiar with the architecture of the Wii will find the list of currently discovered changes interesting."

Comments

Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Drakkenmensch]

If there's anything we have learned from the homebrews on the PSP, it's that people involved in firmware cracking are a resourceful bunch, always a step ahead of the big companies running around with a trowel and mortar to plug the leaks in the dam. Expect your favorite Wii homebrew to be restored to business as usual within a day or two.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Sockatume]

As a remorseless pedant I feel obliged to observe that by outsmarting the manufacturer after the new firmware comes out, the hackers are surely one or more steps behind the big companies. When the homebrew community anticipates upcoming fixes and pre-emptively beats them, then I'll concede that they are indeed one step ahead.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[IndustrialComplex]

Ahh but what if they had anticipated the fix, pre-emptively beat them, and then feigned ignorance for a few days to make the companies think that they had outsmarted the hackers.

Only to find out that they themselves were victims of a double-cross, but the real joke is that it wasn't even a cross since the hackers were employees that were posing as hackers to lull the homebrew community into installing their code. The result is that the homebrew community has been slowly installing pieces of a much more vast program conceived in the secret vaults underneat the Washington Monument. The true nature of these fixes won't be known until the third high tide past the winter solstice when the tidal forces on the wii controllers motion sensors will signal the code to execute.

There is more, but you will

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Aphoxema]

You know too much.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[idontgno]

There is more, but you will

...press "Submit" prematurely, leaving the entire /crowd in the agony of suspense?

Well played, well played.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Kozz]

Are you by chance Sicilian?

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Shade of Pyrrhus]

A Sicilian? On Slashdot? Inconceivable!

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[zoomosis]

I suspect Candlejack kidnapp

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[KillerBob]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Sockatume]

Oh, yes, that's exactly what I would hope they would do. A hacking team that had Sony's PSP fixes continuosly outfoxed ahead of time would completely change the game and perhaps encourage manufacturers to let us tinker.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

That reminds me of the DirecTV attack story from a few years back.

http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:http://www.sekurity.org/directv.html

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Sockatume]

Actually, hang on, isn't that the plot of MGS4?

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[RasputinAXP]

Oh man I can't believe you said candlejack that's hil

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[marcansoft]

When the homebrew community anticipates upcoming fixes and pre-emptively beats them, then I'll concede that they are indeed one step ahead.

That's pretty much what happened. We've been sitting on more exploits for ages, and it took us two hours to make one work after the update. Expect public release in, oh, a day or so.

We're several steps ahead. Their code is too buggy.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[TubeSteak]

You know too much.

No, he just read the script to National Treasure 3: The Unix Bible

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[rhesuspieces00]

Candlejack? Who the hell is Can

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Anonymous Coward]

I know you are joking but DirectTV did just this.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001125.html

It was fucking awesome. Not in the sense of right and wrong awesome but in the sense of those smug card copies fuckers not being able to watch the game awesome. And lets face it, a few brilliant people did the work to crack the card, the rest just paid to get the results.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[liquidsin]

from the way his post ends, i'd say knew too much...

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[hvm2hvm]

Maybe he just couldn't write more of that. That happens to me when I have an idea and want to post about it but while writing it I start to see that it was pretty dumb so I submit whatever it's in there to get it off my head.
This post starts to feel like that too. Or maybe it's just

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[hvm2hvm]

You keep saying that. I don't know if it's just you or others too but it annoys me. Sometimes it fits well but most of the times it's just too condescending.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[ajs]

Well yes, they're resourceful, but why doesn't anyone ask the obvious question: wouldn't it be easier and less annoying to hack on a platform that enjoyed the attention? Netbooks, TiVos and many other platforms have had a loose, but affirming relationship with those who modify their hardware and software. Why not hack on those platforms instead of the ones promulgated by companies that take an anti-consumer stance toward their most dedicated users?

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say the hackers are half a step behind most companies. In the case of nintendo, they are a quarter of step behind.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Lostlander]

You keep saying that. I don't know if it's just you or others too but it annoys me. Sometimes it fits well but most of the times it's just too condescending.

Condescending..? See The Princess Bride if you want to see what he and the GGP are quoting.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Stormwatch]

That Candlejack meme is not funny whatsoev

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[poot_rootbeer]

When the homebrew community anticipates upcoming fixes and pre-emptively beats them, then I'll concede that they are indeed one step ahead.

Well, if the community has already beat the 'fix', Nintendo isn't going to consider it a fix, now are they?

The periods of time during which homebrew execution is successfully prevented are measured in hours; the periods during which it is not, in months. To me, that demonstrates that it is the homebrewers that are AT LEAST one step ahead, probably several.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[DarkSabreLord]

this sounds a lot like what happened to the direcTV hackers, actually...

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[XMyth]

Sounds familiar.....

Game Over :)

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, hang on, isn't that the plot of MGS4?

That's just what they want you to think.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[atraintocry]

Reminds me of this:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001125.html

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Zencyde]

Cnadlejck (you know why I'm spelling it like that) is more of a Freakazoid thing than a meme. You can't just claim something is a meme if it existed prior to becoming popular on some website. See: Freakazoid

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Tatsh]

There is a LOT of attention and appreciation for these hackers. I think these hackers love that and that they continue to be successful at cracking open basically a 'virtual safe'. They are cracking things that the companies who make the products want none of. If a company is open to user modifications, that hardly qualifies as 'cracking', as a company like that would probably release specifications, etc.

For the individual hacker, it is definitely a feeling of 'I have beat them at their own game'. And for both the hacker and the community, it is that and a statement like 'We will continue cracking until you give us what we want'. What people want is subjective. Some strictly would like to see homebrew allowed legally on all consoles. Some would like to be able to use backups as well as legitimate copies of their games. Regardless, a very high number of the users of homebrew, modchips, and other modifications to consoles enjoy being able to play downloaded games without having to pay for them.

These products are definitely 'defective by design'. The whole scheme of video game selling has always been to screw over a consumer. Today you cannot return a game if you legitimately dislike it after playing (ridiculous considering some are $50+). You also legally cannot make a backup copy and use that to keep the original safe 5 year olds and optical discs? As if. And when they get ruined, does the company give you a new copy when you send in your old one? Very few do. So 90% of the time you are stuck buying a new copy if you want to stay all legal.

To the companies involved: give us at least A) homebrew ability (and free development tools and full access to the console (that means you, Sony) for at the least non-commercial use), and B) backup ability (that includes PC games!).

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Anonymous Coward]

"You went too far."

"Little Tortilla Boy"

"Coming Soon."

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Junior J. Junior III]

Ahh but what if they had anticipated the fix, pre-emptively beat them, and then feigned ignorance for a few days to make the companies think that they had outsmarted the hackers.

Clearly, they would have a dizzying intellect.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[miro f]

don't forget the ability to play games from any region on your console!

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Blublu]

You know, this joke is getting a little

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Jorophose]

If there were a gamer's bill of rights for consoles, I think the best resolution for backups would be that if you send in a "proof of purchase", you can buy a backup copy for 10$ each, but just one at a time. The backup discs would have a different "proof-of-purchase", still 100% valid, but knowing the game companies you can only cash this one in once and only if you send the game in with it (or they reuse the old proof-of-purchase).

The reason being is that those 10$ copies would kill the used market. Then again if they limit it to 1-per-bought, not so much, but then you've got to consider it's a bit of an assy deal. Maybe give them grayscale covers and different coloured boxes to show they're backups.

I've been burnt by a scratched disc. I hate being unable to make backups. But to make a backup for a gamecube disc, it seems that not only can I not rip it in my DVDRW, I have to buy a modchip or a Datel SD Media Launcher, break open my gamecube, increase the laser (and thus void the warranty and cut its lifespan) and play games off of optical discs (since nobody wants to tell me whether or not you can play of SD cards).

All things considered, piracy happens when it's easier to go get the pirated material than go buy it, and when there's no initiative to buy it. I don't buy most music because of the new RIAA. I buy movies because they're cheap, and even though the MPAA is eight times as evil as the RIAA movies are big and DVDs are 10$-20$, less at blockbuster. I don't pirate console games because it's tough to get 'em on there. And so many good games are made by small studios (like Tales of Symphonia) that downloading really does hurt.

On the other hand, it's free games, and really easy in the case of the DS. But I will still buy games. I might get a DS backup playing device, if only to play backups and get cool stuff like a browser and homebrew, but I'd still buy all the games I can find. (but with games like Tingle ones, I'd be a bit screwed...)

You've just got to hope people have a moral footing. Which I think they all do. So these things are scams. =/

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[mushroom blue]

thanks for your work.
maybe one day, Nintendo will learn to accept that the community will be able to write better software then they can.

kinda odd that the people spouting the "blue ocean" strategy are being so resistant to this huge new market that talented fans like you are opening up for them.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[TheSpoom]

Ha, you think you'll be able to get away by spelling Candlejack incorrectly, I rea

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[neokushan]

Doesn't knowing of multiple, unreleased exploits in advance count as being 1 step ahead?

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[THESuperShawn]

Well...the most infamous example of those who thought they were "one step ahead".... "Game Over" They appeared right before the Super Bowl a few years ago...

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[aywwts4]

Twelve hours after this story was posted "from the see-how-long-that-lasts dept".....

http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Wii_Shop_and_IOS51_installer

Wii Shop and IOS51 installer
From WiiBrew
Jump to: navigation, search

Wii Shop and IOS51 installer is a very quick modification of PatchMii modified by Muzer that does one thing: It installs the new IOS51 and Wii Shop Channel, without installing the patches to all the other IOSes. This means that as long as you didn't update, you can now install this to use the Wii Shop Channel but keep all the benefits of not having the update.

Anybody at all could have made this, just everyone is too busy at the moment, so I figured I would make it. It's literally modifying 4 lines of code and commenting out a bunch of stuff. Because of this I didn't bother to include the source in the package, but if anyone wants me to, I'll happily include it.

This does not have the same effects as updating, so you get the best of both worlds.

You can do this on any system menu version and it will work fine, keeping the system menu version you have.

I made the program as two separate dol files, because it's easier and quicker for me that way, if this lasts a while I'll make a version that combines the two files.

NOTE: TAKE OUT ANY GAMECUBE MEMORY CARDS/CONTROLLERS AND USB DEVICES BEFORE INSTALLING ANYTHING. The first time one person installed the IOS51, and Shop Channel. One person had a Gamecube memory card, and a wireless adapter in the Wii, and it didn't install correctly. But after taking out all Gamecube items, re-installed everything and it worked fine. Axelpaxel was the one that found that USB devices did it too.

Instructions: Simply load one file, then the other. It does not matter in which order you load them. Use any method.

Releases by Muzer
Wii Shop and IOS51 installer v1: version 1
Wii Shop and IOS51 installer v2: version 2 (This version includes a bugfix)
Source code: Source

Releases by tona
This version will install both IOS51 and the Shop Channel in the same installer and will also patch the signature hash check out of IOS51 for you (fakesign bug).

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[masterzora]

The fact that it's a quote doesn't change the rest of it.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Anonymous Coward]

I see what you did there. Because Mudkip existed before becoming a meme, Mudkip is not a meme. Candlejack is a meme, and so is Mu

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello, I'm a Sicilian you insensitive clod!

Btw, It's not a joke, I'm a Sicilian, from Catania.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[s0l1dsnak3123]

Well arguably, they are one step ahead, because they know many exploits, but they only release ones that the community need to know (so that Nintendo can't patch them). That way, they are always one step ahead of Nintendo, because even if they do come out with some devastating fix for all the exploits that have been released, they can just pull out another trick and use that.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Malevolyn]

Nerds watch football?

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Malevolyn]

I imagine part of the idea is to take the anti-consumer stance and spit in its face, saying that consumers won't stand for it. If it's broke fix it. If it ain't broke, break it, then fix it.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[badkarmadayaccount]

[tihomir@localhost] $ cd /

ls

/bin /sbin /usr /tmp /var /opt /boot /sys /mount /mnt /home ...

Nope, cant find /crowd, what kernel are you running?

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[votershatefreedom]

there's a reason voltaire's dead.

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Anonymous Coward]

and you get modded insightful, of course!

lol! :)

Re:Homebrew Wii-ns again

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why we can't have nice things.

Can't win, just go with it

[hansamurai]

8 hours is significant because I believe for that update, Nintendo had something like a three or four month development, testing, release schedule. This is of course not out of the norm for an update that will affect millions of people, but I can't imagine how much money was put into "fixing" the homebrew problem only for it to be cracked again in hours.

Re:Can't win, just go with it

[tepples]

8 hours is significant because I believe for that update, Nintendo had something like a three or four month development, testing, release schedule.

It was actually a half year cycle. Nintendo released IOS37, and it got a few months of production testing. Then Nintendo released IOS30 and IOS31 with the signing bug fix backported from IOS37, and it also got a few months of production testing. Now we're seeing the signing bug fix in every IOS major version.

Re:Can't win, just go with it

[bigpaperbag]

That's silly, the "only for it to be cracked again in hours" is inaccurate, the 8 hours must be taken as an extensive of the time spent on the update as whole. You can't crack something that doesn't exist, so x hours/months/years was spent on the update + 8 hours extra to enable homebrew, its not like they remade the entire update from scratch just to enable homebrew. You give an uncredited amount of intelligence to a group of people who are merely enhancing/cracking/destroying (pick your favorite) other people's work.

Re:Can't win, just go with it

[v1]

The difference is they have a pocketful of known exploits they can use. They only implement one. Months later it's patched out. Then they can just get out their list and see which one they're going to use next. Maybe the update eliminated one of the options, maybe it added a few more that they will discover and add to their list in the next few months. That's the difference - preparedness, turn-around time. They're doing their R&D while they already have a working exploit in place. Then when that one stops working, they've got one waiting in the wing to be polished and rolled out.

That's the difference between when the next salvo gets fired. Own the box, wait 4 months, patch. Take another 8 days, owned again. Another 4 month wait for the next patch maybe? You can't possibly say the hackers aren't ahead of the curve here.

Re:Can't win, just go with it

[lysergic.acid]

what on earth are you talking about? so some locksmith who spend 2 years to design a lock that a thief cracks in 2 minutes means that the thief spent 2 years and 8 hours to crack the lock? i'm sorry, but your logic is severely wanting.

crackers don't take credit for the new features that hardware vendors add to firmware updates (if there are any), they're merely credited for bypassing the security/DRM/defective-by-design (pick your favorite) mechanisms the vendor added to prevent users from running homebrew. in the case of PSP, most firmware updates don't add any real value to the PSP. they're merely released to break the forward-compatibility of old/cracked firmwares so that users would have to update to OFW to play newly released games. that's why many people simply continue to run CFW based off of an older firmware version.

if vendors didn't intentionally cripple their devices in firmware then hackers wouldn't have to crack the firmware to enable homebrew development on these platforms. both the vendor and the homebrew developers' time and resources could be better spent on improving the platform rather than participating in this fruitless arms race. and often it's homebrew developers that add more value to a system through CFW than the official firmware updates that just cripple the system.

for instance, the M33 CFW for the PSP allowed early adopters who purchased the PSP-1000 (which Sony has apparently turned their backs on) to actually use VoIP (Furikup) on their PSP--a feature that the Sony update only gave to the PSP-2000. and Furikup actually has more robust features than the Skype add-on of Sony's OFW.

what's silly is someone who obviously has no clue about how homebrew works, or what it is, commenting about homebrew development and the efforts of the hackers who make it possible.

Re:Can't win, just go with it

[bigpaperbag]

what on earth are you talking about? so some locksmith who spend 2 years to design a lock that a thief cracks in 2 minutes means that the thief spent 2 years and 8 hours to crack the lock? i'm sorry, but your logic is severely wanting. take away the 2 years, the locksmith, the lock, and the thief is just well, a guy

Re:Can't win, just go with it

[skroops]

f vendors didn't intentionally cripple their devices in firmware then hackers wouldn't have to crack the firmware to enable homebrew development on these platforms. both the vendor and the homebrew developers' time and resources could be better spent on improving the platform rather than participating in this fruitless arms race. and often it's homebrew developers that add more value to a system through CFW than the official firmware updates that just cripple the system.

Yes homebrewer's time could be used better, but you've failed to acknowledge that Sony has little interest in ignoring something that allows pirating games, and that will ultimately cost them money. Because Sony sells hardware at a loss, it's the games that bring them income. Homebrew applications may add value for the consumer, but any benefit from geek appeal will be outweighed by losses. People would rather play free games than expensive ones, atleast from Sony's perspective.

Re:Can't win, just go with it

[Tatsh]

It is true. Many people who 'enjoy the hackers work' (whom many do not intend for usage with pirated games) just use the exploits to play downloaded/pirated games. I would say that less than 5% of the population and perhaps less than 10% of the world really is totally immersed in hacking their consoles (some are intrigued by the idea, some think blindly 'torrents are illegal', some do not want to be banned from an online service like box Live). Of those percentages, it must be admitted that without a doubt a majority of users are pirating games (maybe they buy a few sometimes). Especially for the PSP, a large number of the exploits were simply to load pirated games and/or bypass the firmware version check.

Re:Can't win, just go with it

[Anonymous Coward]

There is another reason for having pirated games on the PSP, the battery lasts a lot longer.

Very educational

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo is doing the world a favor by working they're damnedest to hurt their less favorable users (who have still paid some money for their Wii) and giving hackers this excellent challenge in seeing what they have to do to make things tick the way they like again.

Eventually everything that can be done will have already been done and breaking the box will take less and less time.

Re:Very educational

[miro f]

people keep saying this, but Nintendo has not released a single Wii update which has affected the playing of pirated games for anyone.

Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[glindsey]

Did the update actually do anything to the Wii Shop Channel (other than making it inaccessible without the update)? Or was that simply a ruse to get everybody to apply an update that is really designed for a totally different purpose?

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[qoncept]

What's the difference? Either they made the change to block homebrew and waited till there were other changes or just pushed it by itself. Either way, you've got AID-- er, no more homebrew software, at least temporarily.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[Goose42]

It renamed Wii Points to Nintendo Points, and added clearer warnings about what controllers you have to own in order to play a game before you purchase the game.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[Anonymous Coward]

Blocking the shop channel for people with customised firmware seems like the dumbest possible move. Aren't these the people they want to encourage to buy things?

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[Kjella]

Did the update actually do anything to the Wii Shop Channel (other than making it inaccessible without the update)? Or was that simply a ruse to get everybody to apply an update that is really designed for a totally different purpose?

Many systems that work with an online service have a policy that you must have the latest version and if you don't it'll be upgraded first, even those where there's no such ulterior motive to be found. I think it's mostly a case of ease of testing and support, rather than test a huge range of versions all they need to know is that build 23425 of the client works with build 5435 of the server. If someone calls support and have a problem with the service, everything is where you'd expect things to be in the latest version. Of course to them it's not a downside that things like homebrew are blocked either, but I don't think it's the main reason.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[lysergic.acid]

blind greed is often irrational and counter-productive.

for instance, many people were motivated to buy the PSP because it was advertised as being able to play PSX games, though these games need to be purchased from Sony's Playstation Store/PSN. that's fine and all, but Sony's executives decided to block the PSP's browser from directly connecting to the PSN. instead, they made it necessary for PSP owners to also purchase a PS3 through which their PSP would access PSN content.

it took them about 2 years to finally realize that this was an idiotic policy and with the recently released 5.0 firmware they're finally allowing the PSP to connect directly to the PSN. (though a PC version of the PSN/Playstation Store was created in late September 2007, it was restricted to Windows XP and Internet Explorer users. it also required a proprietary downloader & DRM tool which many users reported having problems with.)

as a result of their anti-consumer attitude & policies, Sony executives drove many PSP users to obtain PSX games for their PSP from file sharing sites. it's simply a matter of convenience. whether you use OS X, Linux, Windows XP, surfed the web with Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, or any other browser, you can easily grab PSX games for your PSP from a file sharing site without any of the hassles that Sony's system required.

requiring PSP owners to also purchase a PS3 just to access a core feature of their PSP is just plain insulting. this kind of short-sighted greed and blatant anti-consumer attitude only serves to alienate customers and destroy good will. Sony should have instead released a tool that allows PSP owners to rip their old PSX discs and load them onto their PSP, so they wouldn't have to re-purchase games they already own off of the, largely inaccessible, Playstation Store. but instead Sony made it easier/more convenient for PSP users to just download pre-converted PSX games off of file sharing sites. well, if you're already used to getting your PSX games off of BitTorrent, then you're also likely to get into the habit of downloading games you didn't purchase--especially with the lack of goodwill between Sony and their customers.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[atraintocry]

I lost all respect for Sony following the rootkits. But you make it sound like it's their fault people are ripping them off. That's like saying "you shouldn't have gone out dressed like that if you weren't asking for it." People are going to pirate regardless. Sure, less people would have pirated if they made it convenient for those people to get what they want. But that doesn't mean Sony has to or should even be expected to satisfy their customers. The market is supposed to create that pressure, not the threat of piracy.

I have a modded second-hand PSP. I have a couple of PSX games on there that I admit to simply downloading. I'm not going to say it's Sony's fault. I would have done it either way.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[atraintocry]

Dunno why I said modded. Cracked firmware. The xbox is modded :D

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[Darby]

The market is supposed to create that pressure, not the threat of piracy.

The threat of piracy *is* a market force which is creating that pressure. Sony, being rabidly anti free market as are all major corporations, hates having to deal with market pressure, so they lobby for laws criminalizing the relevant market pressure.

How you can try to pretend that there's some magical way of taking a real market pressure and declaring it not a market pressure is beyond me, but please stop. It isn't correct and it makes you look like you've blindly swallowed some crappy corporate agenda.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[Tatsh]

Very true. It is almost like the film industry where they expect us to buy the same film X times in whatever the latest greatest format is (now Blu-Ray).

Sony and all the other companies just want more money as always will be the case. They want us to re-purchase everything. They want such that we can use everything once and we have to pay again to use it again.

But then again, consumers are very very ignorant to this kind of thing. They trust in their companies; many still think Sony is 'the best' electronics company ever. They do not think these companies that they have come to love are capable of such anti-consumer moves.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[lysergic.acid]

i'm not talking about ethics here, since that clearly isn't a language that the corporate world understand. i'm talking about economic realities, not trying to be a piracy apologist. i'm just saying that if i were a Sony executive, i wouldn't make corporate policies that actually contribute to piracy (regardless of whether that piracy is justified or not). i mean, you can argue all day long about how unethical/immoral piracy is, but that doesn't change the fact that it's counter-productive to create policies that ultimately encourage piracy and decrease sales.

let me ask you this: should a business operate based on "principles" or profit margins (i.e. the bottom line)? in principle piracy should not go unopposed & unpunished. but if the actions you take based on the principle that "piracy must be combated" actually alienates a large portion of your good & loyal customers--thereby hurting sales and creating more piracy--then is that really the right coarse of action? it's cutting off the nose to spite the face. and this combative attitude has proven to be completely fruitless and detrimental to the success of the PSP and the company, so why not try a different tact? here's my suggestion:

1. make a distinction between homebrew and piracy.
2. open up the PSP to eliminate the need for CFW
3. embrace homebrew development.
4. ???
5. PROFIT!

current policies create a lot of collateral damage. by doing #1, they can better focus their resources on tackling what is actually hurting their business without alienating a significant (and valuable) user base that actually makes them more money in addition to improving the PSP/making it more appealing.

by opening up the PSP with #2 you set it apart from other portable entertainment devices/media players. not only is this a public relations coup, but it makes the PSP a more attractive platform and easier to develop for. a well documented API would allow 3rd-party add-ons/services/devices to be developed for the PSP, extending its usefulness and potential applications--for instance, added support for different file formats (OGG, XviD, M4B, PDF, ODF, CBR), an extensible plug-in system, and implement a wireless file transfer protocol based on open standards.

Embrace, extend, and extinguish (like i said, i'm speaking in terms of business sense, not ethics). Microsoft has used this famous strategy to dominate competitors, which right now Sony considers CFW/homebrew developers as. and by embracing homebrew & CFW with #3, Sony can appropriate all of their efforts to improve the PSP, like the plug-in system and PopLoader. this also goes along with #2 by eliminating the demand for CFW.

not only can you already run homebrew without hacking your PSP, but now the official firmware updates include your favorite CFW features, like being able to run games off of your memory stick (eliminating UMD load times) and allowing you to listen to your own music collection while playing games. now, also start incorporating features from people's favorite homebrew applications and integrating them directly into the official firmware--why would i run a ghetto-looking homebrew audio player just for its advanced media browsing features when Sony has also added such features to their slick-looking XMB media player?

by setting up a PSP homebrew community/code repository, Sony can easily keep track of, manage, direct the homebrew movement to their advantage. if there's an official PSP homebrew repository & developers network (like Mozilla's Add-On library and Mozilla Development Center) any homebrew project that wants public exposure will have to go through Sony's site. Sony can then use this control to focus their development efforts and stay a step ahead of homebrew projects. heck, they could even recruit homebrew developers and firmware hackers to help make the PSP's official firmware better.

additionally, adding a bug tracker and feature request forum would also keep the official PSP firmware up to user expectations. and an Android Market-type store would allow Sony to control and profit from 3rd-party/homebrew applications. just look at the success of the iPhone since they opened it up to 3rd party applications.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[atraintocry]

Maybe market was the wrong word. I guess what I'm saying is, given two options:

Sony punishes its customers with excessive DRM, and they react by cutting Sony off completely.

and

Sony punishes its customers...they react by cracking the DRM but keep buying the products.

I'd prefer the former. I'm not sure what you're saying about corporate agenda, I think you read my post wrong. I'm saying, it's better for people to not buy "defective by design" at all, rather than to buy it and fix it. You're only doing Sony a favor.

And I realize that it's a high bar to set, which is why I admitted to owning a PSP.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[atraintocry]

And I realize you're not giving them any money if you pirate software, but in the case of a game console, you still have to buy the console. In the case of the PSP, you still have to buy the proprietary memory sticks, too.

Re:Any actual changes to the Wii Shop Channel?

[Anonymous Coward]

but if the actions you take based on the principle that "piracy must be combated" actually alienates a large portion of your good & loyal customers--thereby hurting sales and creating more piracy--then is that really the right coarse of action?

Really? A *large portion* of Wii owners homebrew? Citation needed.

The Wii is a family-friendly console. They actively want to keep your homebrew "Ron Jeremy Wiimote simulator" off their console.

Remember when...

[SirCowMan]

I saw the update message on the Wii this morning, lame. Unauthorized software? Remember the time when software updates added functionality and/or fixed bugs? Rather than trying to limit your use of your own hardware (or is it leased now?) and protect the suppliers own revenue streams. While I haven't (yet) played around with the homebrew channel, and probably won't for a couple months (newborn due shortly!), I'm skipping this 'update' out of disgust.

Re:Remember when...

[moderatorrater]

if you want to think about it in terms of limiting the use of the hardware, then they're not doing anything of the sort. The only thing you get out of these fixes are online play and the ability to use their online store, both of which are value added services which require effort on the part of Nintendo to run and maintain. You're welcome to do whatever you want with the hardware, but if you don't use their firmware, you don't get to use their other services. In this case, it seems perfectly reasonable to me.

We should be complaining about the other locked down hardware that we get, like cell phones, where we're paying for the service and the hardware and get to use neither like we'd like. The Wii could be used almost to its fullest potential without installing a single update, but you can't say that about the iphone.

Re:Remember when...

[geekoid]

You can't have quality control, and leave bugs unpatched.

I'd like to see your response if MS decided to leave an exploit unpatched.

Re:Remember when...

[Duradin]

I don't see it as limiting the use of your own hardware.

It's limiting the use of your modified hardware with Nintendo's servers and software. Just because you have the ability to take hardware out of spec does not mean the original manufacturer *has* to continue to interact with your modded hardware.

If the homebrew and various activities of questionable legality offer more value to you than Nintendo's services why even bother with Nintendo updates? Unless you want to eat your cake and have it too by expecting Nintendo to do the extra work necessary to make sure their services play nicely with your out of spec hardware and, more importantly, that your out of spec hardware plays nicely with their services.

Now if the Wii, or any console, was touted as a general purpose computer, restricting its use would be dirty pool. Though when you purchase a console, you know you are buying a device made for a specific purpose. Perhaps you can change it to do other things, but it is rather silly and selfish to expect the manufacturer to welcome this now foreign hardware with open arms.

For some extra disclosure, I run a cycloDS setup on my DS Lite. I got tired of having GBA carts protrude from the case. Not having to carry all the carts along (using roms made from my own carts only) is a big bonus. Now if there came a along a patch that would break compatibility with the cycloDS, I wouldn't install it, unless whatever the patch was for was worth giving up the flash carts OR purchasing a new DS to run the new firmware and whatever game or feature that needed the patch. I am totally aware of the fact that while the DS has the capability to be more of a general purpose platform that is not the way Nintendo intended it to be used and that in using such a way that it is not Nintendo's responsibility to keep their goods compatible with my modified system.

Re:Remember when...

[tepples]

You can't have quality control, and leave bugs unpatched.

But you can make a sandbox for amateurs to play in. That's the approach Sony took with PS3 Other OS Installer, Microsoft took with XNA Creators Club, and Apple took with iPhone SDK.

Re:Remember when...

[Moryath]

Fine, patch *bugs*. Patch all the *bugs* you want.

Meanwhile, leave my ability to run open-source software (like the Wii port of Quake or a better, less stripped-down web browser) alone.

Re:Remember when...

[marcansoft]

They patched *bugs*. Which we happened to use to run homebrew.

There has never been a way of running homebrew except via bugs.

Re:Remember when...

[bonch]

Remember the time when software updates added functionality and/or fixed bugs?

There wasn't some mythical time when updates only added functionality and fixed bugs. Besides, this update does include minor changes, such as renaming Wii Points to Nintendo Points since the DSi will be using the same currency. They had to make that change anyway, and they blocked homebrew piracy in the process. It's not a big deal.

Re:Remember when...

[v1]

well, the "bugs" were bugs. they were security holes that allowed the otherwise unpermitted mods. so that's all the excuse they needed really.

Re:Remember when...

[Anonymous Coward]

Modded hardware? Where do you get modded hardware from anything discussed in the article?

This is about software including the homebrew channel.

Re:Remember when...

[tepples]

Now if the Wii, or any console, was touted as a general purpose computer, restricting its use would be dirty pool.

The failure is that since the 8-bit microcomputers of the 1980s, there really hasn't been a general purpose computer that's marketed by its manufacturer for use with a television.

Re:Remember when...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to take this moment to call "Bullshit" on everyone that tells me the reason they've stopped playing games on PCs is because there's no DRM on consoles. This certainly appears to be a way of restricting use of something a customer paid for to ONLY manufacturer approved usage.

So much for that no DRM thing.

Re:Remember when...

[khellendros1984]

How about new games that require updates to the newest firmware? The ones that auto-update the system the first time that you stick the disk in? Sometimes, core functionality of the system requires a forced update.

Re:Remember when...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wii homebrew is done entirely without hardware modifications.

What Homebrew apps have to do in order to run is to circumvent the signing check, which is there to restrict homebrew apps.

What Nintendo is doing isn't avoiding to put in "the extra work necessary to make sure their services play nicely with [our homebrew]". It's more like "doing extra work in order to stop us from running our homebrew".

It's understood in the homebrew community that Wii System Updates may not play nicely with homebrew. That's to be expected, since Nintendo has no obligation to make sure that it works. What annoys me is that they're actively trying to shut us down.

Re:Remember when...

[mqduck]

There are always people on Slashdot who confuse legality and/or property rights with right and wrong.

Just because you have the ability to take hardware out of spec does not mean the original manufacturer *has* to continue to interact with your modded hardware.

No, it just makes them complete assholes. Why should we be any less upset?

Re:Remember when...

[Anonymous Coward]

Now if the Wii, or any console, was touted as a general purpose computer, restricting its use would be dirty pool.

The PS3 is sold as a "General Purpose Computing Device" in Europe to get around some import & sales taxes. This is the reason Sony officially support Linux on the PS3.

Account blocking?

[phorm]

I don't have a Wii, some I'm not sure how it works (but I was considering getting one for the boy ... ok... any myself .. for Xmas) so I was wondering:

Do they block accounts with "hacked" consoles, or do they just keep you off until you update?

Sometime back I bought a used Xbox. It was able to get on live so assumedly was unmodified, but it appears that now it's actually hacked in a way that XBL can't detect. However, after going through the "it's modified and thus blocked FOREVER" issues with MS, I'm always worried it'll eventually get knocked offline. I'd rather not buy a wii and suffer the same issues, so what's Nintendo's practice in this area?

Re:Account blocking?

[krakelohm]

I have had the Homebrew channel loaded for a few months and have yet to have any problems getting online or being blocked by Nintendo.

Re:Account blocking?

[cpt.hugenstein]

Dont worry, Online play is soo painfully awkward that you will not do it anyways. Nintendoes practice is they make you share console codes to exchange messages. For some games that is not enough so some games have a game code that you have to share. There are websites devoted to exchange of codes. It is more painfull than trying to activate windows over the telephone.

Re:Account blocking?

[harrkev]

Honesty, why bother? I have not seen any Wii homebrew stuff compelling enough to risk bricking my Wii. I am not an expert on this, but here is my take: you can add the following applications:

* Pirated stuff (WiiWare, virtual console, Wii game copies). I am not into piracy at all. I believe in paying for the stuff that I use. Not interested

* Mame. This is interesting. Still "borderline" piracy, but I can at least understand this. Still, I am not that much into old games when there are so many good new ones out.

* DVD Player. Wow, I can avoid spending $30 on a dedicated DVD player, AND get more wear and tear on the DVD drive motor. Plus, with the Wii fan running, dust accumulation on the heat sinks will be accelerated. The risk of bricking is just a bonus.

I have not really heard of any "must-have" homebrew games for the Wii.

Now, hacking a DS does seem cool. Some people have made some nice DS music synthesis software. Then again, I am still waiting for the DS-10 to be released. That is on my "must buy" list to sit beside my Korg Kaossilator.

Re:Account blocking?

[esocid]

I've never heard of anyone getting their account blocked. My roommate hard modded his wii and we even played mario kart online a month before it's US release. It was never an issue with updates, although you needed to update your firmware to keep certain games working.
I can't speak about the homebrew software mod issue cause he didn't do it.

Re:Account blocking?

[tepples]

DVD Player. Wow, I can avoid spending $30 on a dedicated DVD player, AND get more wear and tear on the DVD drive motor.

I think the draw of playing DVD-Video and DivX video on the Wii was supposed to be the fact that a DVD player takes shelf space (especially in Japan and other locales with overpriced real estate), and you need an extra set of five cables going into your switch box.

Re:Account blocking?

[AceofSpades19]

Honesty, why bother? I have not seen any Wii homebrew stuff compelling enough to risk bricking my Wii. I am not an expert on this, but here is my take: you can add the following applications:

* Pirated stuff (WiiWare, virtual console, Wii game copies). I am not into piracy at all. I believe in paying for the stuff that I use. Not interested

So if you use the homebrew firmware on the Wii, you can raid ships on the high seas? Let me be the first to say "Arrr".

Re:Account blocking?

[tha_toadman]

I have not really heard of any "must-have" homebrew games for the Wii.

Then try out "World of Goo" and we'll see if you change your mind on that.

Re:Account blocking?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a fair amount of homebrew apps out there, you should check the complete list:

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/List_of_homebrew_applications

Re:Account blocking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then try out "World of Goo" and we'll see if you change your mind on that.

That's a WiiWare game, not a homebrew one. As in, you don't need to risk bricking the Wii or do convoluted tricks involving savegames to play it.

Re:Account blocking?

[Dan East]

Streaming DivX over WiFi is basically the holy grail for a media center - and I'm quite curious if the homebrew can do that. I have a Phillips DVD player from Wal-Mart that was $55 that plays pretty much anything, including DivX straight off a USB drive. However, the downside is having to copy the file off my server onto a USB drive (4-5 minutes at USB 2.0), then physically move the media from one place to another.

Re:Account blocking?

[MChisholm]

He said homebrew, not WiiWare

Re:Account blocking?

[vux984]

I think the draw of playing DVD-Video and DivX video on the Wii was supposed to be the fact that a DVD player takes shelf space (especially in Japan and other locales with overpriced real estate), and you need an extra set of five cables going into your switch box.

I can't really see that being the case.

1) All those mini 'home theatre in a box' systems have a DVD player built into the amp/tuner/switch. They also make TV/DVD combo devices.

2) Standalone DVD players roughly the size of a laptop internal drive, with upscaling, hdmi, divx/avi, and even usb and memory card slots are readily available.

3) If you can afford and have installed a more extravagant home theatre with discrete components than space for a DVD player isn't a problem.

Re:Account blocking?

[HAKdragon]

World of Goo isn't exactly homebrew as it's being sold on as WiiWare on the Wii's store.

Re:Account blocking?

[Anonymous Coward]

If your server is configured via SMB, then I'm fairly certain you can stream it via the wii port of mplayer.

Re:Account blocking?

[Badaro]

One great reason to run homebrew on the Wii: Region-free gaming.

Re:Account blocking?

[mzs]

I have a few of the Lucas Arts adventure games from my childhood on CD. I installed ScummVM and played FoA and SM with my children on the TV.

What I worry about is maybe they have decided to not remove the HBC during the update, but they might have a switch that they can throw where the next time you dl something from the Shop channel, they delete the HBC in the process. That is scary enough for me that I will hold off installing new VC, WW, and channels until another way to reinstall HBC appears publicly.

Re:Account blocking?

[master811]

* DVD Player. Wow, I can avoid spending $30 on a dedicated DVD player, AND get more wear and tear on the DVD drive motor. Plus, with the Wii fan running, dust accumulation on the heat sinks will be accelerated. The risk of bricking is just a bonus.

Stop with this myth about the DVD drive in the Wii getting overused if you use it as one - it is a Myth and only a myth. The DVD drive used would be exactly the same as any other DVD drive in anyother DVD player or computer. There is no reason that Nintendo would use a special drive that would fail earlier - they would just use off-the shelf drives (more or less).

Re:Account blocking?

[walshy007]

does your dvd player stream files over the network? if not then there's a neat use of homebrew right there.

Re:Account blocking?

[harrkev]

My main DVD player right now has motor problems. I have to replace it. It is annoying to replace a $50 DVD player less than a year old. It would really piss me off to have to replace a $250 Wii that I voided the warranty on.

Re:Wiimote

[RaceProUK]

Yes, as Sony will soon update their firmware to allow community developed apps to be sold... Wait, I'm thinking of Microsoft.

Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Mr_Silver]

Serious question, is it really worth installing the Homebrew channel if you don't plan to do any development and don't have any intention of buying a classic controller?

I took a look at what was offered about 2 months ago and nothing that was developed really made me want to rush out and install the channel. Don't get me wrong, people are doing great things, but I just ended up saying "meh" and went about playing Super Mario Galaxy.

If I want emulators I can get that on the PSP now and the control system is better suited for the task. If I want DVD playback, then I already have a great Philips box which does DivX too.

So ... is there something absolutely fantastic which I'm missing out on?

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[tepples]

You say you have a Wii for Super Mario Galaxy, a modded PSP for classic single-player games, and a DVD/DivX player for movies. What do you have for multiplayer indie games that don't benefit from a separate view per player?

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[AndyBusch]

The biggest reason is that the programs written for a console have a console controller in mind. They don't expect you to have easy access to a keyboard. Even PC apps that have native joystick support don't usually have ready access to save states or other menu functions from the controller.

You get some of that via the PSP, but the TV and multiplayer from a TV console is a little easier, too.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The ability to pirate games just like the thousands of freeloaders who say they're modding their Wii for "homebrew" when they actually mean "to download and play games for free because they're cheap-ass pricks". You're probably missing out on that.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[AndyBusch]

Meant to post this in reply to the person talking about TV-out from PCs, but mis-pasted after signing in. Ah well.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[krakelohm]

Damn, who pissed in your Cheerios?

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[arotenbe]

So ... is there something absolutely fantastic which I'm missing out on?

Well, you can install Ocarina and spam infinite blue shells in MarioKart Wii wifi...

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Theoboley]

That was me. I did it.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Homebrew channel works with all controllers. I've used my game cube, and my Wii controller. Sure, I could do everything Emulation wise on my PSP, but the ability to play on my 42 inch tv with multiple friends is far better to me.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[FictionPimp]

Is format shifting a form of piracy? I bought a whole ton of nintendo and super nintendo games and I still own them. If I could rip the roms from them what is wrong with using the homebrew to play those roms via an emulator?

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[HalAtWork]

You're missing out on doing it all on your Wii, for one thing, which may be the only system some people have, and for some, the less devices the better. Especially if you have to bring it to/from college.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The same guy who told tepples he has to post in EVERY FUCKING GAME ARTICLE about his idiotic ideas that PC games are only worthwhile played on an SDTV with a 4 port USB cable, and that consoles are useless because Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft won't let him port his shitty tetris knockoff to their systems.

Here's a clue tepples: the Jaguar is open speced. The cartridge lock key was released by Hasbro. Anyone can make games for it. There's your fucking answer, douchebag.

Now just keep posting your same whiny pedant bullshit that only matters to yourself and the voices in your head.

Or maybe get a job so you can afford a console devkit? Sorry that your incredible programming talent hasn't landed you a CEO position at Nintendo yet.

Just fucking kill yourself.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was an accident, I swear!

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Deadguy2322, you fucking twat. I care about Tepples' awesome achievement of a game. Fuck off.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Carnildo]

Is format shifting a form of piracy? I bought a whole ton of nintendo and super nintendo games and I still own them. If I could rip the roms from them what is wrong with using the homebrew to play those roms via an emulator?

To the best of my knowlege, there is nothing wrong, legally or morally, with format-shifting games you already own. In order to be strictly legal, you need to do the ROM-dumping yourself rather than downloading ROM images someone else has already dumped. Running an emulator is totally legal -- this was tested in court back in the early 90s when the first console emulators came out.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Schadrach]

Hmm, I suppose having ScummVM and MPlayer on my Wii makes me a filthy pirate then? =)

If I could scrounge up the rest of my old carts to match ROMs against, I'd install FCEU and SNES9x as well.

Mind you, the Wii ports of console emulators are simply better than the PC releases, because nothing you can do on a PC without buying additional hardware feels quite like a NES or SNES controller, while the Wiimote/Classic Controller can fill that niche nicely.

Personally, I think emulators are why they really try to stop homebrew on the Wii. Basically, if you can emulate a console, you won't buy VC games at $5-15+ a pop (depending on the game). They aren't nearly as worried about piracy, I think.

Re:Homebrew channel - worth it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Judging by Deadguy2322's post history, his only purpose in life is to stalk tepples and make rude comments about his game.

Which is fair enough, really. Writing a free game and then posting about it on the Internet? How awful! tepples is worse than Hitler I must say. I hear he also eats babies and forces tiny kittens to play his Tetris clone.

At this point, why?

[tepples]

As of the fourth quarter of 2008, most PCs have an SDTV output, HDTVs have a VGA and HDMI input, and Bluetooth dongles let the PC use Wii controllers. So what's the big draw of Wii homebrew?

Re:At this point, why?

[qoncept]

That all makes sense until you try it. I thought I was all slick playing movies and NES emulators over the network on my small PC that had RCA out back in the day. But it just sucked. My modded Xbox with the same movies and emulators was 100% better a few years later.

Re:At this point, why?

[TheCycoONE]

Your comment suggests there may not be any utilitarian reason to hack the Wii, and there may not be much; but the question suggests you don't understand hackers and hacker culture very well. More often than not, it's not to gain any utilitarian advantage, but for the pure fun of doing something unintended or frowned upon by the original manufacture of the device. It's the same reason numerous universities have traditions where (particularly engineering) students place objects in unusual places.

Re:At this point, why?

[rmadmin]

To quote a Billie Piper song "Because we want to".

Re:At this point, why?

[jassa]

I'm sure other people more up to date on the state of Wii homebrew can suggest more things, but the first things that come to my mind are imported games. I live in Australia and many games (especially Nintendo and Capcom titles) take weeks, if not months longer to reach here after their US release. A lot of gamers want to support the publishers but not have to wait for ages to play those games. It's also worth noting that until recently it was also a lot cheaper to import than to pay local prices for video games. Unfortunately, for some reason our dollar has become a lot weaker since the US economic crisis began, so importing is no longer the cheaper option.

Re:At this point, why?

[pla]

That all makes sense until you try it

True, the previous gen of ED/HDTVs with supposedly PC-compatible input connectors tended to fail miserably at actually dealing with signals from any actual PC (on my old TV, I could barely get 720p over component to work, and it would scale it down to only take up about half the screen). That no longer holds true, however. Most newer TVs have VGA, DVI, or HDMI connectors that really do work like they should.

Re:At this point, why?

[sdsucks]

... and now, a few years later again, the PC is vastly superior for the purpose.

Xbox lacks CPU power and RAM for many things (Such as playing many HD formats, also playing many MAME games).

Modded xboxes were very cool, but I prefer my mythtv box by a long shot.

Re:At this point, why?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

cheap PC: Maybe 200 bucks and a hassle to set up

Wii: About 250 bucks and not a hassle to set up. Running twilight princess hacks versus running install and updates of a general OS, either Linux or Windows, that you have to take care of with constant tweaks, upgrades and OS patches? NO thanks. I'll just hack the Wii.

Re:At this point, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

...Unfortunately, for some reason our dollar has become a lot weaker since the US economic crisis began...

Isn't this the definition of not just a US economic crisis?

Re:At this point, why?

[log0n]

Yeah.. frustrates me too. All the time now, we're seeing 'why..' or 'what's the point in...'

Nerds aren't nerds anymore.

Nerds played Doom/Quake/Duke/Keen before Halo made gaming (and talking about it) cool for everyone else. Nerds hacked together 10baseT networks (or lesser/older tech) at their homes, in dorms, etc long before. Nerds know what x/y/z/kermit protocols are (and wrote the software to pull it off). Nerds attended lan parties and got made fun of for it. All these everyone-else-types just like technology and see Slashdot as their spot to vocalize.

We DO THESE THINGS because we CAN and we WANT TO!! Now stop asking what's the point.

PS3? Of course it runs Linux.

[tepples]

Yeah, cos the homebrew PS3 scene is really rocking at the moment.

Was that sarcasm or not? Of course the PS3 runs Linux.

Re:PS3? Of course it runs Linux.

[richy freeway]

That's not homebrew though is it? That's a feature built into the console (if you install linux).

Re:PS3? Of course it runs Linux.

[danieltdp]

If PS3 runs linux, that makes it an excellent gaming platform! Oh, wait...

Re:Wiimote

[The Moof]

Not yet, but they're making progress.

I installed the HBC for one reason

[Moryath]

I like Wii Quake. The Wiimote is a near-perfect way to play the game on my humongous living room TV screen.

I wouldn't need homebrew if

[cpt.hugenstein]

1) They released earthbound for vc (I mean come on already) 2) They released other games for vc. A stream of 1 or 2 medeocre games a week is not going to cut it. 3) Kill all the lawyers (or laws.. I guess) so that licencing issues werent a problem.

Modchips are affected too

[jassa]

This update also renders modchips useless - though luckily it doesn't seem to brick the consoles (not those with Wiikey chips anyway). Unfortunately the modchip community isn't as active as the homebrew community, so those with modchips might have to wait longer before being able to update their consoles again.

Re:Modchips are affected too

[Anonymous Coward]

Sucks for those using modchips to play imports. Giant "HA HA!" and finger for those using modchips to play "backups" **coughcoughfreeloadingpiratescough**.

TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[tepples]

I live in Australia and many games (especially Nintendo and Capcom titles) take weeks, if not months longer to reach here after their US release.

I can think of two reasons:

For one thing, game consoles are typically used with large displays called "TVs". TVs in New Zealand and Australia run slower than North American TVs. A lot of games' physics are based on a time quantum based on that of the TV's vertical retrace, and developers need to retune the physics, retest all the levels to compensate for this.

Some video games include depictions of violence or sex that the community deems unsuitable for small children. The standards and practices differ from country to country, and rating boards in each country classify each game based on local standards. It takes time to remove depictions that would result in a refusal to classify a game.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[jassa]

Yet somehow other publishers manage to overcome these issues and have near-simultaneous worldwide releases! Amazing!

Most televisions in Australia and New Zealand support both NTSC and PAL signals, and HD televisions (which are becoming more and more common) use 720p/1080i/1080p which are standard HD resolutions worldwide.

As for classification problems, the removal of content for reclassification purposes is not nearly as common as you might believe. Maybe one in a hundred games actually have to be edited after the initial classification submission.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[jo_ham]

Every TV since the rise of consoles, pretty much, has been capable of running NTSC signals, or even PAL signals using a 60Hz refresh rate.

You'd be hard pressed to find a TV that had ports on it for attaching a console that couldn't flip between different systems at will based on the input signal.

The distribution rights tend to be the thing that really slows down the release of games, videos and music in a region - it's almost never a technical problem any more.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd be hard pressed to find a TV that had ports on it for attaching a console that couldn't flip between different systems at will based on the input signal.

Ummm, every single American NTSC TV I've ever owned or used has displayed the following faults when fed a PAL signal:

  - Vertical Hold issues. Can be corrected by either using PAL-60, or adjusting the vertical hold.
  - Black and white signal. All the TVs do this. Not a single one will show any colour, even if this is the only fault.
  - Corrupt signal. Signal quality is drastically reduced, appears to have snow.
  - Display issues. Keystone is off, aspect ratio is off, displays bowing.

And I'm not talking a small amount of TV's here. I'm talking over 100+ TVs across dozens of manufacturers, styles, and SKUs. All have ports for attaching consoles (ie: A composite input).

At least here, you'd be hard pressed to find a TV that supports PAL, SECAM, or even NTSC-50 in any format at all.

That all being said, ever since consoles started to take discs and computers had hard drives, I haven't heard much of games being tied to refresh rates.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[Anonymous Coward]

dude it's a nintendo (and modern tv's tend to support several standards)

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[jo_ham]

I was talking about in Europe, Aus and any other region of the world where NTSC isn't the primary TV system.

Every single European TV I have seen that has RCA ports on it since the mid 90s or earlier has been able to function with at least PAL and NTSC signals. More modern ones can handle anything you can throw at them.

I have a wide selection of Region 1 and Region 2 DVDs and an unlocked DVD player and I've never come across a TV that I can't play those US DVDs on (and the DVD player doesn't change the disc to PAL, it outputs in NTSC when a region 1 disc is played).

Maybe US TVs are all NTSC only, but here in Europe, they are all multi format.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[nedlohs]

Yes American TVs (probably NTSC TVs in general) tend to just do NTSC.

In the PAL world however, the TVs handle NTSC as well just fine (in 99% of cases). Possibly because importing a VHS tape from the US is the more common direction and hence it's a useful feature.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[bky1701]

"A lot of games' physics are based on a time quantum based on that of the TV's vertical retrace, and developers need to retune the physics, retest all the levels to compensate for this."

Sure, last decade. Since games started being multiplayer, we have come beyond "frame has set time" thing, because even a small change in framerate would mean an unacceptable difference in in-game time between 2 computers. In game clocks would be invariably off as well.

For a very long time now, games have used the time between frames as a control to all that happens. You do not say "RunLoop()", you say "RunLoop(elapsedTime)". The game is generally the same, save the user interface, regardless of it running at 1 frame per second or 800.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[TBoon]

From what I've heard the reason is that consumer TV's mostly are designed in either USA or Japan, both NTSC/60hz regions. Those NTSC designs are then modified to handle PAL/50hz signals, without discarding compability.

The nice thing about it was that PAL TVs could handle "everything". The downside was that the "modified NTSC" solution didn't display PAL signals as well as a native PAL design would have been capable of.

No idea is it is actually the real reason, but it made sense at the time... (As in the 10-20 years before flat panels took over)

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[Blakey Rat]

A lot of games' physics are based on a time quantum based on that of the TV's vertical retrace, and developers need to retune the physics, retest all the levels to compensate for this.

Wow, we're getting posts from the past! This post for example was obviously typed back when the SNES was the latest and greatest, as that hasn't been true for a long time.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[tepples]

You do not say "RunLoop()", you say "RunLoop(elapsedTime)".

I've seen things like for (int t = elapsedFrames; t > 0; --t) { RunLoop(); } which keeps things nice and deterministic. Otherwise, you get things like the bug in one of the Quake games where if your frame rate was some multiple, you could reach ledges that you couldn't at other frame rates.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[bky1701]

Which is still independent of the actual video framerate, though it is more dangerous in some other ways. It mostly depends on how the system itself is designed. You are correct that event driven systems (which most games are) may manifest strange behavior with simple time-passing, but nether system is perfect.

Re:TV system doesn't match; rating systems

[Pebby]

Localization has all sorts of unexpected problems. For example, when we were finishing our kids game we learned that, since we have a very, very minor slot machine minigame in it, the German version was going to be rated MATURE since they're super-sensitive to that stuff in ratings - the US rating is "E," FYI.

Blocking owners?

[Drakin020]

Those not installing this update are blocked out of the Wii Shop channel and in the future may be blocked out of certain games.

Uh, so let's say Jimmy purchases a Wii, takes it home with his new game and tries to play but it won't let him because the Wii has yet to be updated.

Are you saying that now Wii owners are required to have Internet access in order to update the console to let them play games?

Re:Blocking owners?

[krakelohm]

I believe games that require an update will come with the update on the game DVD as well. Mario Galaxy was this way.

Re:Blocking owners?

[lrbays]

If a game requires an update to run, the update is included on the game disc. So, you can install the update without an internet connection, but still, you have to update to be able to run the game.

Re:Blocking owners?

[acvh]

doubtful. if a new game requires new firmware it will most likely include it on the game disk.

Re:Blocking owners?

[CrackerJackz]

Much like the PSP; the games that 'require' a certain version ship with the update on the disk. Super Smash Brothers prompted me to update (which it did from the disk) before it would run.

Jimmy will be fine :)

Re:Blocking owners?

[Anonymous Coward]

no, games like Metroid Prime 3, which did require an upgrade, come with the upgrade. If you have the internet, it is probably already updated, if not, then it is availible offline.

Re:Blocking owners?

[jassa]

Interesting fact: Although the game discs force you to update, the games themselves often don't actually require the update. I don't endorse game piracy, but I did investigate the piracy scene while waiting for Smash Bros. Brawl to be released in Australia and was surprised to discover the pirated version had the update stripped out of the iso, and could still be played with no problems.

Apparently this was also true for every other game that had previously come bundled with an update.

Re:Blocking owners?

[geekoid]

No, they'll just start including the update on disks. Initally Blu-Ray required an internet connection for firmware updates, but now it went to the saner method of using the movie disk to upgrade the firmware.

For the record, home appliance systems shouldn't need a damn firmware upgrade at all. I predict bad things will come of this.
Specifically New Firmware that brakes the player, glitches on older movies.
Maybe even a vector of attack from people with malicious intent.

Re:Blocking owners?

[lrbays]

Yeah, there are programs that strip the update partition of the disc, such as BrickBlocker. But I meant that officially, one has to install the update to run the game :P

Re:Blocking owners?

[MasterOfMagic]

All Wii discs are locked to a specific version of the IOS. This is to ease testing - you only need to test a game against the IOS it was developed to use instead of all past and future IOS releases. Games that require a higher IOS than the first IOS from launch day include the proper updates on the disc, so you're never in a position where you have to download something from the Internet but don't have an Internet connection.

Re:Blocking owners?

[nedlohs]

Obviously a game which needs will come with it on the disc. Just like they always have.

Re:Blocking owners?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are correct.

Re:Blocking owners?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, any game that requires a specific firmware version has the update on the disc itself, and will initiate the update before you start to play it.

The game most likely doesn't _need_ the specific firmware version to play it, but nintendo likes to force such things on us anyway :)

(anon because im la

Re:Blocking owners?

[Anonymous Coward]

No because new updates are also included on the game discs you retarded linux hippie.

Re:Blocking owners?

[Dorceon]

No, because every Wii game has a partition that includes the firmware update required to run that game, along with quite a few others.

Re:Blocking owners?

[Anonymous Coward]

The games come with the updates it needs to run.

Re:Blocking owners?

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing with playing games from other regions is that installing updates from another region can brick your Wii, which is probably why the pirate versions stripped it out.

Re:Wiimote

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Stick that wiimote in your assholes, faggot WEE owners!

You should have got a Playstation 3, the TRUE winner :P

What's the point of the anal wiimote installation? To simulate the expense of buying one? Looking for a lil sympathy?

PC multiplayer - worth it?

[tepples]

Even PC apps that have native joystick support don't usually have ready access to save states or other menu functions from the controller.

Complain to their publishers and tell them why you've voted with your dollars.

But imagine a game for Windows or Linux that can be configured to bind MenuUp, MenuDown, MenuLeft, MenuRight, Start, and Back to a USB game controller. It also allows up to two-player cooperative or four-player competitive play on one PC with one monitor. Would you consider trying and possibly buying a copy of such a game, or would you reject it outright because "console-style games are for consoles"?

Nice Update

[mmalove]

So the motion sensor control is still whacked, but now at least I can bask in the warm fuzzy feeling of DRM creeping over nintendo hardware.

Oh wait, no - I don't own a wii. And probably never will - if this is how they respect their customers.

Re:Nice Update

[Anonymous Coward]

So the motion sensor control is still whacked, but now at least I can bask in the warm fuzzy feeling of DRM creeping over nintendo hardware.

Oh wait, no - I don't own a wii. And probably never will - if this is how they respect their customers.

Aww... :-( Here let me fix that for you! :-)

So the cupcake fruit control is still Twinkie, but now at least I can cookie in the warm oven taste of BREAD smoothing over berry pancakes.

Oh candy, no - I don't own a tangerine. And probably never ate - if this is how they bake their cookies.

There! All fixed! No need to thank me. :-) Have a nice day! :-)

Re:Nice Update

[KaiUno]

Oh come on. You're aware of the backup loader that's circulating, right? Folks are playing games illegally via a software mod. Only thing you need is Twilight Princess to get the stuff to work. First version was a bit slow, but there's a highly anticipated followup which is being tested righ now that plays virtually every game at regular speeds. You moan about Nintendo trying to stop this? Believe me, slashdot is talking about homebrew when in actuality it's all about being able to play backups. Without the hassle of getting a chip soldered in.

Re:Nice Update

[krakelohm]

I love Madlibs.

Re:Nice Update

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the problem with the motion control sensor? It works great over here.

Re:Nice Update

[mmalove]

"Oh candy, no - I don't own a tangerine. And probably never ate - if this is how they bake their cookies."

I'm not entirely sure what's going on, but I feel better, as if suddenly lobotimized.

Sid Meier's Pirates!

[tepples]

So if you use the homebrew firmware on the Wii, you can raid ships on the high seas?

Exactly. If you crack your Wii for homebrew and install an NES emulator, you can play an infringing copy of the NES version of Sid Meier's Pirates! (1991). Just make sure to use Twilight Hack to install the DVD driver and the Homebrew Channel before you put on the new IOS.

When will they update Flash and Opera?

[edmicman]

When will they update their Flash player? I paid 5 bucks to have big screen streaming web p-, er, videos, and all that seems to work is YouTube. WTF?

Re:When will they update Flash and Opera?

[Badaro]

According to Opera, it's Adobe's fault: http://operawatch.com/news/2007/04/why-the-wii-browser-has-flash-7-and-not-flash-8-or-9.html

Re:When will they update Flash and Opera?

[edmicman]

Hrm, I think I've seen something to that effect here and there. The thing is, the link on that page goes to the Adobe Mobile SDK, which in turn goes to "Flash Lite 3" which supports Flash. And every search for any relevant information turns up hits from 2007. How the hell is it nearing the end of 2008, we're seeing Flash 10 out for desktops, and the Wii Internet Channel is still a gimp project?? It's not like Nintendo and Opera are small companies, either. Why the hell can't they work something out?

Frankly I'm pretty disappointed in the Internet Channel...I'm tempted to see if I can get my money back.

Re:When will they update Flash and Opera?

[master811]

That can't be true anymore cos Sony just updated the Flash version on the PS3 to Flash 9.

Re:When will they update Flash and Opera?

[Hitto]

So Ubuntu gets flash 10 but no one at Nintendo could be arsed to call adobe and ask them WTF is up with their shit?
I'm also not updating. I only use the homebrew channel with emulators (gnuboy and fceu whatever one of the seventeen versions on the homebrew browser) and mplayer (external HDD allowed, yea, crashes randomly, beuuh)
Nintendo could have made a useful update like, here's what some dude posted on gonintendo :

Channel Updates
Mii Channel
- Added more types of apparel (i.e. Shirts, shoes, hats and pants, etc)
- Added more types of faces, hairstyles, features, etc
- Ability to create Custom apparel by using images loaded from an SD card
- Ability to collect new items from games that would be automatically added to the Mii channel.

Photo Channel
- Ability to delete images from Photo Channel without having to search for them on the Message Board
- Choose order in which music tracks are played during slideshow
- Ability to arrange order of pictures to be viewed in Slideshow
- Customization of image gallery (allow for user-created folders to manage pictures)
- Ability to change music tracks during a slideshow
- Custom Slideshows
- Playlist support
- Now allow video shortcuts to be placed on Wii itself, so you can view it with your photos

Internet Channel
- Support for Adobe Flash Lite 3
- Save images from web page to the photo channel
- Support for Tabbed browsing
- Image download to SD Card

News Channel
- Support for additional news source feeds

Shop Channel
- Popular games enhanced. Now, you can see what is "Popular this week", "Popular this month" and "All-Time Best Sellers".
- Download Demos. Try out Wii games before they come out.

Data Management / Storage Solutions
- USB Flash Drive support
- USB Hard Drive support
- Support for SD Cards above 2GB
- Ability to load Virtual Console games from an SD card without it residing in the Wii main memory.
- Allow people to merge their save data files as what would be extremely useful in the situation where a friend brings over their save file on an SD card or no longer has their Wii.

Communication Enhancements
- Ability to communicate via voice while playing Wi-Fi Connection Network compatible games
- Options for Enabling or Disabling voice chat communication functionality
- Support for most Bluetooth and USB compatible headsets/microphones.
- Parental Controls updated with more options for communication functionality
- Instant Message your friends in your address book
- See when friends in your address book are actually online utilizing the Wii (games, photos, surfing net, bulletin board, etc).
- View your friends Game-Specific Achievements
- Download new Game-Specific Achievements

General UI updates
- Ability to customize the Wii Main Menu (Select wallpaper, music, animations, size and shape of channels). Incorporated SD Card functionality so you can select to stream music tracks off that media.
- Cleaned up the Wii menu with a single channel for all Virtual Console games, rather than each game having it's own channel.
- Option to group games together. Keep all the N64 games on one channel or all similar games together.
- Firmware/Software Update History
- Address Book page increase
- The ability to message multiple people in address book at once.
- The ability to send and receive messages via the Wiimote Home button at any time, even during gameplay.
- The option to have the LED stay on constantly while the system is on.
- Ability to adjust gamma correction, vertical screen position, etc. in your screen settings.
- Ability to set the sensor bar settings incrementally.
- Ability to set a boot up password / PIN.
- Ability to lock out the configuration options and save data sections via parental control features.

New Channels
- Instant Messenger Channel - Chat with friends or family members who are online at the same time.
- Media Channel - An update of the Photo Channel

Why Do Companies Do This?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would I want to buy a product where the manufacturer is combative and actively works to prevent me from using the product in the way I wish to use it?

Re:Why Do Companies Do This?

[brkello]

Do you not read Slashdot to know the standard and obvious response to this? 1) You don't have to install the updates. If you want it to stay the way it is, just use your homebrew. 2) It is there company, they can run it how they want. 3) Hacks come out to fix it within weeks of it being patched. 4) For the majority of people, they just want to play Nintendo games on it so it isn't a problem.

It's your fault that you use their software. They can do whatever they want to their software and if it pisses you off, don't use it.

sad...

[motang]

I had to take off all my homebrew apps just to do the update...it's a cat and mouse game.

Uhm....

[Moryath]

That's essentially what happens.

The PSP hackers (Dark Alex in particular) pretty much know every trick Sony has in their arsenal. The only unknown is which particular bit Sony is going to try in each time (what the particular decompression keys will be for example). Making a new PSP custom firmware for these guys is really pretty straightforward; they unpack the firmware, doublecheck their CFW code against the new code, doublecheck any newly-appearing functions, and release the patched version that pretty much patches the same bullcrap stuff that's just been in each official firmware release since 2.00.

It's the companies that are reacting - they "patch" for the repairs the "hackers" have made to restore proper function to their Defective-By-Design products. With this latest bit, I fully expect we're going to start to see PSP-style custom firmware installations for the Wii that begin to open the platform up more fully and allow it greater flexibility to be used to its fullest capability.

Re:Uhm....

[Sockatume]

That certainly explains a lot about the marvellous state of the PSP homebrew scene.

Re:Uhm....

[Anonymous Coward]

The marvelous thing about the PSP homebrew scene is that the homebrew people have found a way to hack the battery using software so that it makes the original PSP and the PSP Slim boot off the memory stick, so in essence, the only thing Sony can do about it is release new hardware. The PSP is cracked wide open. Sony recently tried to lock custom firmware users out of their new PlayStation Store app on the PSP, and a workaround was discovered within hours. A no-hassle workaround was released just a few days ago. Sony is pretty much powerless to stop homebrew on the PSP now.

Re:Uhm....

[Khyber]

Obviously written by someone that does not own a PSP.

*goes back to video chat on the PSP*

Re:Uhm....

[Sockatume]

I wasn't being sarcastic, I do mean it's marvellous. It's the most expandable console since the Xbox. Wonderful.

Re:Uhm....

[Malevolyn]

Too bad I bricked mine within a month of its release. And I got up at 8AM to pick it up, too. 8AM!!

Failed

[riceboy50]

I don't have anything custom installed on my Wii and the update failed for me.

Define "linux" real fast

[Moryath]

A flavor of "linux" that doesn't have proper access to the RAM and the video board isn't really "linux."

Give me REAL linux, that can natively run the linux port of XBMC and can run Wine, and we'll talk.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[MikeBabcock]

So the copy of Linux I have running in Xen isn't real Linux? How about the copy I run in qemu on a Windows machine? That's not real Linux either?

Its real Linux no matter how it accesses the hardware, all the facilities of Linux are there. Period.

Sony has chosen not to expose certain parts of the hardware through the hypervisor running Linux to protect their market and I respect them for that. They've provided a much higher level of legitimate access than anyone else ever has (other than themselves, on the PS2).

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[Anonymous Coward]

if one of you conditions for "REAL linux" is something that is able to run wine then you will never have a "REAL linux" on the PS3, wine need intel

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[xhrit]

you fucking idiot, you can't run wine on a ppc/cell.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[Tatsh]

I completely disagree. Sony could just give access for non-commercial use. All Sony has tried to do with PS2/PS3 Linux is prevent decent game development, making Linux for the consoles nearly useless. Instead of making the licence state 'not for commercial development' and suing anyone who does not follow, they block access to basically the 'most important' parts of their systems, the graphics processors. Why bother installing Linux then? Would not it be cool to run some of those free OpenGL games (such as Neverball) on the PS3's amazing graphics card? I think so. Sony strongly disagrees. And I also think it would be a lot of fun to put these consoles to their limits without having to be a signed developer. They surpass most PCs in terms of power and cost a lot less.

It's not that it's not 'real Linux'. It is just that is extremely limited Linux in terms of the machine it is being run on. It is virtualised Linux regardless because it has a hypervisor (which prevents dumping of Blu-Ray discs with dd, and like said before, blocks access to several SPEs and the graphics card).

Maybe the whole industry should stop selling consoles at a loss and relying upon games to bring in money. This is a model that is surely not going to last. Nintendo is making profit when they sell a Wii. Yeah, it certainly is limited in comparison to its counterparts, but Nintendo will not rely upon a model that really has barely worked for both MS and Sony.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[Khyber]

"They surpass most PCs in terms of power and cost a lot less."

Sorry, my 9800GTX+ by itself is just over half the total floating point power of the entire PS3. So if I ran SLI, I'd have higher floating point power (over 2TFLOPS) now lets add in my dual-core 64-bit processor..... etc.

The only thing that makes the PS3 so powerful is they're writing native code for the most part. There's less overhead due to the OS and whatnot, no need to code for generic APIs and such. As always, Consoles seem more powerful because there's less crap to write AROUND than in a modern PC environment.

Remember on the PS3 one processing unit is reserved for redundancy and disabled until one of the others fails, so the console is effectively designed crippled. (this also probably explains the issues I have with framerate in some games, that disabled processing unit could REALLY add a power boost, and games would run properly (Turok, Assassin's Creed, MGS4)

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[MikeBabcock]

That last paragraph proves you don't know what you're talking about.

The PS3 has only 7 of the 8 SPUs enabled to improve yields, it has nothing to do with redundancy. If they required all 8 SPUs to be functional they'd have had lower initial Cell processor yields from the factory, that's all.

The PS3's overall processing power for certain workloads is a lot higher than you make it out to be. You can quit the FUD.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[Tweenk]

All Sony has tried to do with PS2/PS3 Linux is prevent decent game development, making Linux for the consoles nearly useless.

This is intended. Sony sells the consoles very close to costs or even with a loss and recoups that on games which have broad sales margins. Allowing access to the GPU would allow PS3s to be used in certain scientific projects (e.g. molecular dynamics computations) and as general purpose PCs, which would run counter to their business model. Linux on the PS3 is just pandering for the FOSS crowd and a very clever move to drastically reduce the number of PS3 hackers.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[miro f]

Give me REAL linux, that can natively run the linux port of XBMC and can run Wine, and we'll talk.

Wine would be completely useless on the Cell, as Wine Is Not an Emulator. The Win32 code runs directly on the processor, which is of course impossible on anything that is not an x86 processor.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[Khyber]

WHAT?

http://playstation.about.com/od/ps3/a/PS3SpecsDetails_3.htm

"* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy"

I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

From you linked page:

"The Cell processor in the PS3 is much faster doing Folding@Home calculations than a regular Intel or AMD CPU for example, but isn't well designed for other workloads."

Sorry, my 9800GTX+ TEARS up F@H and goes through more folds than my PS3.

You might want to read your own garbage before using it to point out something I know for a fact.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[ToasterMonkey]

"The Cell processor in the PS3 is much faster doing Folding@Home calculations than a regular Intel or AMD CPU for example, but isn't well designed for other workloads."

Sorry, my 9800GTX+ TEARS up F@H and goes through more folds than my PS3.

ROFLMAO because the quote you selected specifically says "regular Intel or AMD CPU", NOT "9800GTXOENZOSTANGAERON++ GPU"
What are you feeling sorry for?
Modern GPU performance is really undisputed in all but your little world, but care to explain why there are no games using it for anything other than rasterizing? All the folds in the world don't make PC games any better ;)

PC gaming - Bad as hell on paper, enough bullet points to choke a horse, overpowered machines, and you STILL get 20 fps with no better gameplay to show for it.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't recall ever getting UNDER 20fps since the days of the Voodoo Rush.

Rasterizing, raytracing, who gives a flying fuck? Can you get your visual effects across without tasking the system and slowing down the game to unplayability? Apparently, in the case of many games I own on both PS3 and PC, the PS3 is a resounding NO, while the PC is a big YES.

You tell me why Assassin's Creed drops to 15FPS on a powerhouse like the PS3 but on my laptop with a weak two cores and a crippled mobile graphics chipset I can run with full eye-candy and the laptop barely gives a flying fuck.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[Khyber]

WTF, I did NOT have post anonymously checked.

Fix your fucking shit, Slashdot.

Re:Define "linux" real fast

[Tatsh]

Now no one can complain "it does not run Linux," but everyone including myself can complain AGAIN that "it does not have full access to the system". And yet Sony at first marketed the system as a machine intended for many things, not just games. Being able to install Linux adds to that, but they are not 'pandering' anyone when they purposely limit the ability of an OS on their hardware that someone else pays (in all honesty) a substantial amount of money for. As far as I know, no one signs an agreement saying the hardware is Sony's no matter what when they buy a PS3 (the same is not true for the development kit). Hackers should be able to do whatever they wish with hardware they own.

Upgrade the Internet channel flash player already

[Jabbrwokk]

I agree it's good to have everyone running the same update for service and support purposes, but this update really doesn't seem to do anything important.

Instead of wasting time developing an update to block a handful of people from hacking their Wiis, why doesn't Nintendo put their time and development cycles into upgrading the freaking Internet channel flash player already. It's over a year and a half out of date and more and more flash videos are unplayable on the Wii as websites upgrade to the newest version. At least Youtube still works (mostly).

I know I can just go use my computer, but it's fun to watch Internet videos on my couch (and streaming TV shows) instead of having everyone huddle around the computer monitor.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys might have missed the point, or purposely ignored it.

With the homebrew channel installed, coupled with wadinstaller and dvdX + backup loader, you can pirate virtual console / wiiware games, and play downloaded backups of retail wiiDVD games.

The homebrew itself sucks, but being able to try before you buy is key.

This is probably why we see this update now, as the hack has hit the mainstream and too many people are pirating wii games for nintendo to sit back and ignore it any longer.

I fully expect to see these bug fixes included with every firmware update that comes down the intertubes.

It's a losing battle, as someone who's already installed the homebrew and backup loaders, has no need for the wiistore anymore, as they can grab all of the games, region free, for free. Why install an update that fixes basically nothing but this?

Re:Upgrade the Internet channel flash player alrea

[v1]

doesn't itunes always do this?

Frame-based physics

[tepples]

[Game physics engine basing its time quantum on the frame rate] hasn't been true for a long time.

Plenty of games still have frame-based physics, including Ti and Brawl. In Melee, characters were even made heavier or lighter.

Re:Frame-based physics

[Blakey Rat]

WTF? Why?

Ok, I guess I'll have to qualify: it hasn't been true for any *sane* game developer for a very long time.

list of currently discovered changes?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a software developer and free software fan, I find the item "currently discovered changes" very ominous. I know it's standard practice on such proprietary, single-purpose devices that the manufacturer does not disclose anything about what an update does (you can't opt out anyway), but it's one of the reasons that I don't own a console.

They make slim PCs for that

[tepples]

I know I can just go use my computer, but it's fun to watch Internet videos on my couch (and streaming TV shows) instead of having everyone huddle around the computer monitor.

That's what an HP Pavilion Slimline PC is for. Buy one, put it next to your HDTV, connect the PC's VGA or DVI out to your TV's VGA or HDMI in, and you can watch and play what you want without interference from the big three proprietary video gaming hardware companies.

N is For Stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

What fuckin moron came up with this strategy?!

Blocking the users who install homebrew games from the Shopping Channel is like barring bootleggers from the beer store!

Just plain stupid.

And...

[PRMan]

You could also play the pirate Guybrush Threepwood in the Monkey Island series on ScummVM, as well as the Atari arcade game Skull & Crossbones on MAME.

Lots of pirate software available...

Re:And...

[miro f]

ahhh... ScummVM. Is there a single platform it does not run on?

What brand of dumper?

[tepples]

If I could rip the roms from [my NES and Super NES Game Paks] what is wrong with using the homebrew to play those roms via an emulator?

In countries with case law analogous to Sony v. Universal and RIAA v. Diamond, nothing. But what brand of NES and Super NES cart dumper do you recommend? (The Internet doesn't count, per UMG v. MP3.com.)

Re:What brand of dumper?

[FictionPimp]

I admit that there are currently no commercial products that do this and you will have to hack together your own solutions. I have found a few sites with google that detail how to go about trying this. Most involve hacking a nintendo and are out of the reach of most people.

But if it's legal, it just shows a nice market some enterprising engineer could get into.

Re:What brand of dumper?

[Fancia]

I'm sure the GP doesn't actually own the hardware, but I'm very fond of my Game Doctor SF7. I dump all my own original cartridges with it. They're surprisingly not that hard to get even in this day and age.

Re:What brand of dumper?

[FictionPimp]

I'd love to have one. I do however own crates of old games from atari to n64. Not to mention the huge collection of ps1, ps2, and gamecube games I own.

It really sucks that I can't really play any of them 'legally' without dragging out the old failing consoles and hooking them up.

Re:What brand of dumper?

[walshy007]

This one. needs an avr and some random commonly found parts, some soldering required, but nowhere near as expensive to make your own as to get a pre-made snes cart dumper/programmer.

Um, Nintendo ?? wtf?

[Piranhaa]

You currently need this update to access the Wii Shop Channel. from http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Wii_System_Updates

Umm.. So what Nintendo is basically saying is "Well, if you don't upgrade you can keep pirating but we REFUSE to let you pay for us for anything" Whoever thought that up should be fired. By doing this update, I'm sure that they're actually losing revenue from people that will not update. Of course, only until the patch gets a workaround again.

Re:Um, Nintendo ?? wtf?

[CaseM]

Perhaps the underlying assumption is that homebrew == piracy in Nintendo's eyes. Not saying it's correct...

Re:Wiimote

[Tatsh]

I do not like Kotaku's pro-industry and non-bias articles.

Re:Upgrade the Internet channel flash player alrea

[khellendros1984]

iTunes? To the Wii? Not that I know of.

At least Nintendo were up front about it...

[Doug52392]

When I turned on my Wii yesterday, I had a message from Nintendo describing the updates, and specifically stating that this update will block homebrew programs. Although I was disappointed to see them block homebrew content, at least they specifically said that they were patching it, rather than not telling users, like Sony, or banning your Xbox/Xbox 360 from Xbox Live forever, like Microsoft...

Re:Upgrade the Internet channel flash player alrea

[lysergic.acid]

definitely. a lot of gaming companies are focusing more on combating homebrew/piracy, which they can't stop, rather than actually improving their product, which would drive up sales & increase profits.

the PSP is in a similar situation to what you describe. the PSP is actually very well engineered by Sony, but its lacks the software to take advantage of the hardware. the XMB looks beautiful, is very easy to use, and is well-designed in general. but its built-in media player is extremely primitive. compared to the iPod/iPhone, Zune, Archos, Sony Walkman, or just about any other portable media player on the market, the PSP's audio player is missing a ton of core features.

aside from the bare minimum stop/play/pause/forward/rewind functions, the PSP is utterly outdated and lacking in the most basic features expected of all modern media players, including but not limited to:

• playlist support/management
• a media browser (ability to organize tracks by artist/album/genre/etc.)
• support of ID3 tags
• track normalization
• FLAC, OGG support
• equalizer (the PSP's default audio setting is too low for public use w/o headphones)
• shuffle mode
• audiobook support
• bookmark/chapter marking

don't get me wrong, the XMB is a very beautiful and elegant interface. but it's all flash and so substance. i can honestly say the PSP's built-in media player is the least functional of all the major PMPs. that's why i wish Rockbox would be ported over to the PSP so we'd have a decent media player to use.

not to mention the PSP's built-in web browser is useless since it runs out of memory every 15 minutes (less when browsing more media-intensive sites) requiring the system to be restarted. this is something that can easily be fixed by implementing a swap file to page memory to the memory stick. but Sony still insists on wasting their resources on trying to lock down the PSP rather than fixing its flaws or improving on it (wireless file syncing/sharing like the Zune would be a very welcomed feature).

Re:Upgrade the Internet channel flash player alrea

[Jabbrwokk]

the PSP's built-in web browser is useless since it runs out of memory every 15 minutes (less when browsing more media-intensive sites) requiring the system to be restarted

The Wii has a similar problem. I found a streaming feed of Discovery Channel from Southeast Asia (so it was English with Chinese subtitles) and was happily watching Mythbusters for about 15-20 minutes until it just hung. Only solution was to quit to the Wii menu and reload everything again, and even that wouldn't work for very long.

I know that's not really what the Wii is meant for, but what's the point of having an Internet channel if it barely works? Oh yeah, Facebook doesn't work right, either, because the @#@Y$^$%%$^&$%#@ Flash player is out-of-date.

That slimline PC is looking pretty attractive, too bad I just blew all my disposal income on new tires. For my truck. A real truck. Not a Slashdot analogy truck/car.

And the PSP sounds like it could be awesome if Sony would tweak it. Maybe they want people to buy a PSP for games and a digital walkman for music...double the sales.

Don't you mean to say: He GNU too much?

[Anonymous Coward]

well did he GNU too much?

Re:Upgrade the Internet channel flash player alrea

[v1]

what I was referring to is that iTunes has been doing this all along and we don't see people nearly this freaked out over it as we do here with the wii.

Re:Upgrade the Internet channel flash player alrea

[sponga]

You know they invented this thing on video cards called 'TV Out', you really should look into that and a 14' dual video/audio cable. Shouldn't be trivial for any geek and video cards are dirt cheap.

The REAL reason for the latest Wii update..

[Anonymous Coward]

..has nothing to do with what most of you are talking about. Though the update to block out homebrew installs was obviously part of it, I'm not allowed to say what Nintendo's greater purpose was, but it was pretty intriguing to find out.

Re:Upgrade the Internet channel flash player alrea

[Jabbrwokk]

1) I don't want to move my computer all the way across the house to do this.

2) I don't want to build another PC just for the express purpose of doing this.

3) Dirt Cheap is still at least a couple hundred bucks to build a box that does this. Not in my budget, not with two little kids.

4) I don't have any room in my living room to have a "media centre" box sitting around.

5) The $5 Wii Internet Channel was working well enough for watching streaming video until more websites started using the latest flash player version.

Re:Wiimote

[Anonymous Coward]

Real Fags buy Gaystations.

http://www.geekoftheday.com/funny-geek-pictures/gaystation2.html