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Researchers Decentralize BitTorrent
A Cow writes "The Tribler BitTorrent client, a project run by researchers from several European universities and Harvard, is the first to incorporate decentralized search capabilities. With Tribler, users can now find .torrent files that are hosted among other peers, instead of on a centralized site such as The Pirate Bay or Mininova.
The Tribler developers have found a way to make their client work without having to rely on BitTorrent sites. Although others have tried to come up with similar solutions, such as the Cubit plugin for Vuze, Tribler is the first to understand that with decentralized BitTorrent search, there also has to be a way to moderate these decentralized torrents in order to avoid a flood of spam."
...and hopefully with this companies will start to use BT as an alternative to http/ftp. The downside is that you have to have a client, but I bet that browsers will have integrated BT support soon (the new Opera does, FF has a plugin). And the savings for the server range from a LOT to none, and even none can't hurt, since if nothing else you at least have a great download client able to resume downloads, download huge files, etc.
=Smidge=
Is it just my observation, or is eldavojohn an idiot?
BT is popular because you can go to a reputable listing site, find a well seeded and good quality torrent with comments by others to back it up and download it quickly. Compared to the chances you take searching traditional P2P systems, full of dodgy encodes, fake file names and incompletes it's obvious why people turn to BT first.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Full decentralized, search capabilities, with many people able to share pieces of the same file... I think we already have something like that.
News flash: Centralisation is a strength of BitTorrent.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
So can this plugin be used to find people hosting files and do away with centralized servers hosted in no-you-can-sue-in-this-country?
According to the website, Tribler will exchange torrent downloading history by default.
1. Decentralize bittorrent
2. Share pirated stuff
3. ???
4. profit
5. Cure cancer?
Good to see the best minds of this generation have chosen to benefit humankind with... ...a better way to steal stuff!
Bit Torrent is not always used to steal stuff. Its how some game updates are downloaded, and most versions of Linux offer a Bit Torrent download.
I smoked pot once. But I DID NOT inhale. Will you hire me?
Guns aren't always used to kill things either. I mean, you can use them for target practice, right?
For a slashtard you spell pretty good.
How about working on making it so that I don't have to show my IP address as downloading a specific file? That's by far the biggest problem with BitTorrent.
Maybe a bunch common servers that then stream to you. This would be similar to news servers/NNTP except you would be pulling from multiple sources in the BitTorrent way. Also more stuff could be available if it worked like normal torrent hosts and they didn't expire (unlike news servers).
Individual people could even act as proxies similar to Tor/Freenet except designed for a heavy load (like I2P).
Just something, anything, that obscures the IP addresses of those downloading stuff. All the current stuff like encryption and this decentralized system do nothing to protect the users of the system.
Is it just me, or is the BitTorrent world slowly converging on features and an architecture that the eDonkey network has had for years?.
I mean, BitTorrent started out as a way to download big files, like Linux ISO's. Then people started making big torrent search web sites, similar to eDonkey servers. Then people made BitTorrent clients that had a queue of downloads (e.g utorrent), quite similar to eDonkey clients. Now these people have made Torrent searching distributed, just like eDonkey and Kademlia.
I've never been much impressed by BitTorrent (gee, can you tell?). Just what is it that makes it more popular than eDonkey/eMule? Is it just the reputation and hype that has built up around "Torrents"?
Good to see the best minds of this generation have chosen to benefit humankind with... ...a better way to steal stuff!
Bit Torrent is not always used to steal stuff. Its how some game updates are downloaded, and most versions of Linux offer a Bit Torrent download.
Although I wonder how many legit and mainstream uses of torrent requires a search capabilities.
You seem to be implying that killing something is never a correct course of action. I can think of several not-uncommon instances where it is a correct action.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
The games distributed by bt are tyipcally fired up from a torrent link on their site. Why would you need to search internet at large for an alternate copy of it? Oh yea, you want the free one.
t
Are you suggesting that the use of P2P networks can kill people?
Guns are used for legal reasons ridiculously more often that BT is. Your comparison is retarded.
Your analogy doesn't stand up to this circumstance because guns are used for target practice a lot more than they are to kill things.
i don't know.. i bet more people play wow than download movies via BT
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
how can you kill 'things'?
I cannot.
Yay! The Pirates SCORE AGAIN !! Yay!!
Yay!! I got mail!! Yay!!
And the ignorant are fed for another day.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
You don't think that if someone is about to end your life it's correct to end theirs first, to preserve your own?
So does this lead to TPB (and others) becoming largely redundant? If not right now, at least the writing is on the wall for them. I mean if you can search without TPB, then why would you need to go there, apart from maybe checking out their legal pages.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
Well, you show me your 'thing' and I'll kill it!
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
Guns aren't always used to kill things either. I mean, you can use them for target practice, right?
Guns are often used for hunting - A legal, useful, and environmentally friendly way to gather food. Sometimes guns are used for legal and useful things and sometimes they're used for crime.
Thank you - Good analogy.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
I know this is a naive question, but how does a client find any peers to query without a centralized server to get a list from?
The government can't save you.
I think hunting still counts as killing things. My comment didn't factor in whether killing things are good or bad, and that was on purpose.
Okay, hit me with an off-topic, but can we find a way to be able to remove retarded first-posts that are actually worse than "first post!"?
As far as TFS... I for one, am thrilled to see that torrents technology, being both beautiful in concept and on it's way to being the de-facto web content delivery method (imho), is preparing to become even more of a hot-topic red button for consumer-suing power-houses (aka, RIAA) once when this leads to bigger and better hidden piracy networks.
Or, for those new to slashdot...
"Sweet, more bootleg porn!"
What makes you think centralisation is a strength? I liked gnutella just much better for actually finding stuff, except that BT is faster for downloading.
Newsflash: with a decent client that let you ban junk, and enough common sense to see the junk patterns, gnutella was (and still is) very reliable.
You would think these people would know that something is going to be like wicked popular and prepare themselves before a press release!
Uncle Mantis
Actually far more rounds are expended in target practice than in killing people, meaning that target practice is a much more common use for a gun than murder.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
I use eMule quite a bit and the URI system is great. All the ed2k sites use it.
sharethefiles.com and tvu.org.ru are two big ones - they do for emule what piratebay does for torrents (just using those URIs in place of .torrent files).
Why, yes I have been touched by His noodly appendage. And I plan to sue.
Your reply:
Guns aren't always used to kill things either. I mean, you can use them for target practice, right?
To the parent:
Bit Torrent is not always used to steal stuff. Its how some game updates are downloaded...
If you weren't weighing in on good use/bad use, then what exactly was your point? Just some random statement that some things have two similar uses?
Trucks aren't always used for transporting people. I mean, you can use them for towing, right?
/. posts aren't always used for communicating ideas and opinions. I mean, you can just randomly spout nonsense to listen to the keyboard clack, right?
CDs aren't always used for listening to music. I mean, you can store data on them, right?
Oh, and who said that hunting didn't count as killing things?
But those sorts of downloads have an official source where you'll want to go for the torrent file, making this decentralization option unnecessary.
You seem to be implying that killing something is never a correct course of action. I can think of several not-uncommon instances where it is a correct action.
Then you're wrong and still have to learn a lot.
He said something, not someone. Hunting animals for food is generally accepted, killing animals in life-threatening situations too.
Yes, hunting still counts as killing things - I never implied that it didn't. I was just trying to expand on your analogy a little bit so that it was somehow relevant to the discussion.
I swear - Some browsers must prepend a line that reads "First off let me say that everything in your post is completely wrong." to every reply. It's the only way that I can explain posts like this.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
1) It Isn't stealing, IP infringement at worst.
2) Being able to create and distribute copies of anything at low cost without centralized infrastructure is of obvious benefit to humankind. If only we could do the same with food, water, and fuel.
Disclaimer: I'm one of the authors of Cubit
Tribler takes an interesting approach to the distributed search problem -- collect Torrents in the background and perform on-demand searches locally. To improve recall, skew the Torrent collection to collect mostly from those that have similar interests.
It does raise a few questions. Search quality for less popular Torrents will likely be affected. Searching for Torrents outside your typical interests may also be problematic. And given a Torrent may in theory be replicated to every Tribler client, there is some bandwidth concerns.
I guess only time will tell if limiting search to only the files that have been previously downloaded by one of your peers is sufficient for most users.
Cubit takes a different approach -- perform efficient, distributed search over all the available Torrents in a manner that is resilient to typos and spelling mistakes (from both the search string and the content). Rely on a separate mechanism (such as user comments or a reputation system like Credence) to determine good Torrents from SPAM in the search results.
The approaches seem complimentary, and I'm looking forward to testing out the new Tribler once the website recovers from the Slashdot-ing.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I still remember when suprnova closed down and they started development on eXeem which sounds to be exactly what they are trying to do here. That project didn't even last for a year.
I believe that those researchers will fail the same way as eXeem failed.
I can certainly think of several instances were killing someone would be the correct course of action, but several NOT-UNCOMMON instances?
I have no idea where you live, but man, maybe you should move...
By shooting them.
I said something, not someone.
For example "Grab your rifle! There's a coyote attacking the livestock!", which is not an overly uncommon thing to happen around here.
Also the occasional human with ill intent towards me, my family, or my possessions, which is considerably more rare, but still worth being prepared for, especially being as it would take the police about half an hour to show up here.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
No, BitTorrent isn't always used to steal stuff.
However, decentralised torrent search almost certainly will be.
Linux distributions and game updates do not need this feature. It's a hell of a lot more difficult to defend this than the rest of BitTorrent.
I must be new here...
Perhaps bit torrent search will be used for some new technology on the horizon, and not for stealing. Just because something can be used for stealing does not mean it can not have another purpose. Maybe instead of linux distros and game sites letting their websites get slammed when they release a new update (for example open office 3.0) they can just tell the users to perform a search of their torrent.
I smoked pot once. But I DID NOT inhale. Will you hire me?
Its about time. Now the **AA's of the world can finally get theirs. The world changed. Film companies don't sell film anymore. Kodachrome is (very soon) to be a thing of the past. Vinyl records really don't sound better than digital. Mass distribution through a very narrow, very expensive pipe is no longer sustainable. Get over it.
never heared of frost? the p2p client for freenet? it also has encryption and anonymization...
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
Then you're a mineralatarian and do your cooking with a rock grinder. But you're destroying our continental plate and we'll drown! You're just a very slow killer!
>> And exactly how many joe averages run Opera?
> Me, for one.
Have you been properly vetted, or are we going to find out tomorrow that you're actually an unlicensed, tax-dodging plumber from Ohio with delusions of grandeur about how much you make? :-)
Besides bittorrent styled file replication, I have always hoped that bittorrent was tunneled through FreeNET and that bittorrent became the primary means of retrieving websites and real-time data such as Stock and News information.
btw, frost pist!
The MAFIAA has yet to comment on this development, pundits speculate these organizations understand that no publicity is bad publicity, and feeding triblers with publicity only produces more triblers.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
BitTorrent by definition can't be used to steal stuff. There is absolutely no way, even with your full cooperation, for me to use BitTorrent to take away anything you own.
Would this happen to be named for Marshall McLuhan?
The GP's analogy sucked. Guns are used to kill living things or practice to get good at killing living things. Killing things is the raison d'etre of guns. Not so with bittorrent.
Disclaimer: I am a handgun owner, and I support banning handguns.
You're comparing downloading copyrighted MP3s with murder?
You know what you're talking about.
CAUTION! Tribler uses you, the clients to distrubute .torrent files. After analyzing tcp data, and looking at cached torrent files, I can never use tribler again.
Due to the nature of the content of those files, using it could easily land you in court, with your name tarnished forever. I encourage any users to check your .torrent cache if you are using tribler, and you will find what I mean. Do you really want to aid in distrubuting that crap?
or practice to get good at killing living things
Actually a lot of people like marksmanship just as a recreational activity. Not much point in spending hours and hours at the range and the reloading bench shrinking a 0.75" group down to 0.25" if you goal is simply to kill something. Most target guns are actually not much good for anything BUT target shooting. Hell it's an Olympic sport for pete's sakes. There are also many other national level shooting competitions. Do you think the top competitors in those events are really just practicing for their next drive by or something?
The simple and plain truth is that TONS of people own, shoot, and enjoy guns with no intention or aspiration of killing anything.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
You're comparing downloading copyrighted MP3s with murder?
You know what you're talking about.
Nope. Notice I didn't mention Mp3's anywhere in my post. Heck the post I replied to didn't either. I simply pointed out that fact that a gun is far more commonly used in a perfectly legal manner than in an illegal manner. There's always an insinuation that each and every gun and gun owner is just a murder waiting to happen; the reality of the situation doesn't support this though. MP3's have nothing to do with the matter.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Because when I copy it, you still have it. Got that point?
Sig? Where I go, I don't need
I'm not saying your point is wrong, but your logic assumes that use is measured "per-bullet", which is not nearly the given you seem to want to make it.
I2PSnark is their bittorrent client, check it out.
Here is a short Howto for I2P.
They are still trying to gain a critical mass but the network essentially works.
Archery is an Olympic sport too. Arrows can be used for some other purposes than killing living things, such as sending messages, but it's still nearly true that the raison d'etre of bows and arrows is to kill or maim living things; just as with guns. We just let archery be because a bow is a thousand times less efficient at its task than a gun, and a hundred times cheaper and easier to fashion at home.
The fact that guns are used recreationally is not a good defence of bittorrent via analogy -- bittorrent's raison d'etre is not to do harm, not even in copyright infringement. Cohen explicitly said so, and that's why he made it centralised too -- he didn't imagine that a centralised architecture could be so good for copyright infringement after Napster.
but it's still nearly true that the raison d'etre of bows and arrows is to kill or maim living things; just as with guns
raison d'être - If you're going to use French words at least accent them properly.
That aside, I can't concur with you that the purpose of a gun is to kill. At least not universally. Sure many are used for that, but target and recreational shooting is the primary purpose and reason to be for many guns (and bows for that matter - I don't know of anyone who hunts or kills anything with carbon fiber arrows or blunt tip heads, but they are incredibly common because they're popular for target shooting).
Take a look at http://www.rbgc.org/benchrest/benchrest.htm for example. These are benchrest guns designed and made for target shooting. Their gaudy color schemes make them stand out quite readily. Their weight makes them difficult to carry around, and their stock design is setup such that it's difficult to hold in an impromptu fashion - they're designed to be fired from mechanical rests. Most such rifles are also generally chambered for target style rounds such as the .300 Whisper or the 6mm PPC. These are designed for long range accuracy rather than energy delivery, making them not really optimal for killing things. A decent number of them are also single shot.
There are similarly styled handguns and such too. Ever see the sights on a IPSC/IDPA competition setup handgun? They're bulky and snag on holsters and clothing way too easy for concealment. They also often feature long slides and bulky muzzle breaks to reduce muzzle jump, further reducing their use as a street gun.
I mean, yes, you certainly COULD use one of these target guns to kill someone, just as you can use a pipe wrench to drive in a nail, but if we're arguing about something's "raison d'être", then for many guns it's most certainly NOT to kill anything.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Thanks, but I won't accent an import phrase. But if you like, I'll substitute the Anglo-Saxon "very purpose". This is less familiar to non-native English speakers, which is why sometimes a well-known French or Latin phrase fits the bill. But it's perfectly intelligible without accents.
I wasn't discussing specific models. Why were guns invented, why were bows invented, and why was bittorrent invented? Saying that the purpose of guns is to target shoot is like saying that the purpose of bittorrent is to download movies and music. I don't doubt that we are moving toward a world in which the primary purpose of guns will be target practice, because it's a fun thing to do, to measure your skill at anything, including shooting handguns or rifles.
Look, all I am trying to point out is that the GP's analogy sucked. I think that we are basically in agreement, except I think the situation you describe is in the future. When it will be unusual to have a metal round in a gun, or in any way when using a gun to kill someone is awkward and inconvenient and difficult (perhaps because some laser gadget will have superseded firearms, like firearms superseded bows), then I will agree with you unreservedly. Until then, as far as I'm concerned, the very purpose [this is still not quite the same as raison d'etre] of guns is to kill or maim living things, and the mere fact that most round are expended in target practice does not contradict my view.
Did you know that a bow and arrow were used in combat as recently as Dunkirk? I believe it was Mad Jack Churchill, but I do not know for sure. He got his German, in any case.
Without delving into the Tribble source I would guess the other reply below is correct that a hosts.txt lists some long-lived peers in the network to bootstrap the search from.
Yes, there are 8 superpeers that do the bootstraping.