Running Google Android On iPhone Clones

wooby writes "With the release of Android's source code, we may see iPhone and Nokia clone phones of Chinese origin capable of running Google Android. These phones, often available for less than $200 without a contract, are available on DealExtreme and elsewhere. But the software running on them is universally awful. Is the clone phone market a vast, nascent install-base for Android, and part of Google's end game? According to Google's Dave Bort, 'One of our goals would be, just to get Android all over the place' [YouTube link]."

Comments

welcome

[internerdj]

I for one welcome our new cheap, Google-powered, android overlords.

Re:welcome

[James_Duncan8181]

I for one welcome the return of the 80s standardisation of the PC market via Windows compatibility demands but in a different market. All of China's clone manufacturers can dump 90% of their software development costs and have something that isn't insanely buggy for free that they occasionally do a bit of custom GUI stuff for. Of course that will happen.

Re:welcome

[Yetihehe]

Instead of search & destroy those overlords will have more plausible mission: 1. search 2. ??? 3. profit.

Re:welcome

[gEvil (beta)]

Thank you sir, may I have another? Gee this Google whip feels the same as the Microsoft one.

But it's not evil! That means it should feel good.

Re:welcome

[PitaBred]

It's like the 80's except better since the software is open-source and you aren't locked into the whims of the supplier!

Everybody wins! Yay!!!

Re:welcome

[pcolaman]

Steve, is that you?

Re:welcome

[Dogtanian]

It's like the 80's except better since the software is open-source and you aren't locked into the whims of the supplier!

And also that Tiffany isn't at #1.

Re:welcome

[PitaBred]

You can't win all the time :(

Re:welcome

[sootman]

I don't know if this will work out as well as some people are predicting. People don't want phones with Android because Android itself is so great. People are excited about Android because it promises to be an open PLATFORM on top of which people can build cool APPS. It's the APPS that everyone wants--like all the cool things we're seeing on the iPhone, but without all the dumb restrictions of Apple and the App Store and the limitations of the iPhone hardware (removable storage, etc.)

But with all these clone handsets will come inevitable hardware variances (motion sensors, single- and multi-touch screens, different screen resolutions, aspect ratios, CPU speed, amount of RAM and storage, etc.) and that will make app development less like iPhone and game console development and more like PC game development: different things require this or that bit of hardware, or work better here or there, etc. It'll be harder for dev's to test thoroughly and it'll be that much more for buyers to keep track of.

Re:welcome

[Anonymous Coward]

And also that Tiffany isn't at #1.

You say it as if Soulja Boy is better.

Re:welcome

[centuren]

With the specific complaints about the G1 missing things like Exchange compatibility and easy computer-syncing, one would think that smallish development shops would be racing to get these written.

If they're absence makes headlines, they're appearance will also, so it's like having the platforms "killer apps" already spec'd out.

Re:welcome

[oldhack]

Side nitpick. The standard of the 80's were MS-DOS + PC BIOS. I know - look at my handle.

Re:welcome

[Allnighterking]

Small note windows is 90's not 80's

Re:welcome

[VagaStorm]

Yeah, but at least they flog ya for free instead of charging ya money for your own beatdown...

Re:welcome

[shutdown -p now]

Oh, so that's why Google says they're "doing no evil". It's good so long as it's consensual!

Sure. Why not?

[morgan_greywolf]

It worked for MS-DOS. Just ask Microsoft. ;)

Android is free for some

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem comes when you want to call certain countries, like Italy. Google is working with the nefarious Italians to make their fiefdom a virtual black hole for wireless service. This allows Italians to manufacture their nefarious ices in slave labor camps for cell phone users like you and me. The italians must be stopped and Google must allow us to visit the shoe-shaped Asian country! I have a modems.

And that's not all all over the place

[Anonymous Coward]

Google would like to get your personal information all over the place.

Yes, but can it drive my car?

[Janeshat]

Can it drive my car like james bond's phone? Or better yet, Dr. Horrible's?

Re:Yes, but can it drive my car?

[Facegarden]

Can it drive my car like james bond's phone?

Or better yet, Dr. Horrible's?

Well, all the information to develop such a thing is freely avaliable, so, in a way, yes, it can.

-Taylor

Ballad of Android

[girlintraining]

In days of old, when cell phones made calls,
and contracts deprived all of gold,
there came a metal man who lived in a mobile,
he promised free ring tones, no contracts, and
a platform by, of, and for the people,
but alas the sticker said "Made in China",
and it filled their hearts with lead... I mean, dread. Yeah.

Re:Ballad of Android

[morgan_greywolf]

Errmmmm...and where, exactly, do you think Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, etc., all make their phones?

Re:Ballad of Android

[girlintraining]

Mount doom.

Re:Ballad of Android

[morgan_greywolf]

Sorry, but your post just doesn't sound Tolkeinesque enough ...

Re:Ballad of Android

[Eg0Death]

My Samsung Blackjack II was made in Korea. Not quite China . . . .

Re:Ballad of Android

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I'd believe that about some of the older Nokias, which don't seem to be destroyed by dropping them into just about anything else...

Re:Ballad of Android

[pcolaman]

In the fiery chasms of Mount doom.

There, fixed it for ya.

Re:Ballad of Android

[Idiomatick]

You are right... Orodruin/Amon Amarth would have been better. I'm actually kinda disturbed how often sindarin has come up in everyday life since I found this book, I borrowed it on a lark...

Re:Ballad of Android

[spacefrog]

My Blackberry was made in Mexico. My wife's Samsung was made in Korea. My prior Nokia was made in Finland, as was the one I lost that it replaced, the other Nokias in my drawer were all made in Hungary.

I have about six phones (does the 'parts nokia' count?) in front of me purchased at different times from different carriers. Not a single one was made in China.

I don't feel like digging out the box of old CDMA Motorolas, but I know those weren't made in China, either.

I've owned (and own) more phones than the average geek. Not a single one since I got my first Moto MicroTAC in 1994 have been made in China.

Re:Ballad of Android

[davevonnatick]

My phone's made in China. Mmmm... You can really taste the melamine.

i wish i could run android on my real iphone

[putch]

because i really hate the iphone os.

Re:i wish i could run android on my real iphone

[Anonymous Coward]

Seconded. it is essentially useless for doing anything interesting unless you jailbreak it.

Re:i wish i could run android on my real iphone

[catmistake]

Seconded. it is essentially useless for doing anything interesting unless you jailbreak it.

Oh, the horror!

Re:i wish i could run android on my real iphone

[Orlando]

Please expand on this, how on earth can you 'hate' an OS? And what do you object to so much about the iPhone's OS?

Re:i wish i could run android on my real iphone

[x102output]

"unless you jailbreak it." gotta say, a jailbroken iPhone is mighty awesome to tinker with. so much development is going, just check the Cydia repo's.

Re:i wish i could run android on my real iphone

[putch]

i could go on and on. but first and foremost: no copy/cut and paste. wtf? it's been about 5 years since i had a cell phone that DIDNT have the ability to copy and paste.

also the mail application is probably worst email client i've used since AOL 2.5. you can't disable downloading html objects? wtf?

if it wasnt for the fact that i can read comic books on it i'd certainly have returned it or at least bought a shotgun and shot it.

Re:i wish i could run android on my real iphone

[Joe Tie.]

Especially backgrounder! That one program increases the functionality of the normal apps by a pretty large amount.

Re:i wish i could run android on my real iphone

[Orlando]

And that makes you "hate" the OS? Please....

How about just better software?

[Lumpy]

the CECT P168C has a feature I cant fin in any other phone. Dual SIM cars support. I could have my work phone sim and my personal phone sim in one phone and reduce pocket clutter. I wold KILL for this feature but the morosn that make most american phones refuse to deliver this feature.

Hell the few Nokia's that did support it were Europe/asia only.

Re:How about just better software?

[gEvil (beta)]

I wold KILL for this feature but the morosn that make...

That's an unfortunate place to make a typo....Dual-SIM phones would be nice, though.

Re:How about just better software?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Trouble is, it isn't that the phone makers are morons, it is that the American phone distributors, who are almost always the telcoms, have no interest in you having that feature. Dual SIM support starts down a dangerous slippery slope: First consumers want to consolidate their work and personal numbers on one phone. Allowable, though they really should be paying a monthly fee for some sort of forwarding service(remember, when you own the network, intelligence at the edges is the enemy). Before you know it, though, they've gotten uppity, and are using cheap prepaid SIMs from other companies in order to save money. Can't have that.

Re:How about just better software?

[ArhcAngel]

I would like dual sims as well but for now here is what I do. I forwarded my personal phone to my business phone and get all calls on one phone. Haven't turned my personal phone on in over a year. Of course if you don't have a large bucket -o- minutes or your boss is a jerk about personal calls on the company phone then your screwed.

Re:How about just better software?

[Lumpy]

Exactly, Even phones like my Nokia e62 or my blackjack support multiple accounts on the same sim so that through that provider I could have 2 phone numbers, they REFUSE to set up such a feature. AT&T/Cingular say it's against their company policies.

Re:How about just better software?

[bazorg]

that'll be a Samsung D880 for table number 4

Re:How about just better software?

[Kizeh]

Indeed. There's no need for dual SIMs, which is why the feature vanished from European phones -- you just put multiple lines on one SIM and let the phone handle it. It's quite commonplace in Finland among my former colleagues. A lot of people at work in the US want to do this, but none of the carriers we've talked to, as a large university, are interested in offering this functionality.

Re:How about just better software?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I'm not at all surprised at the consumer level; but I'm a bit surprised to hear that the carriers wouldn't cut some sort of deal, even if it involved charging extra for what the phones can do natively(Hi Verizon! Yes, I do resent the idea of paying $10/month to use GPS.), for such a large customer.

Re:How about just better software?

[RMH101]

This was available on my first GSM phone, way back in around 1995-96 on UK's Orange network. However, the two lines are both on Orange - i.e. you can't "clone" your work SIM/number onto line 2, which makes it less useful. Great if you ran your own business, or if you could persuade your employer to pay for your 2nd line rather than supplying you with a company phone and company contract though.

Shameless plug?

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Submit "story" to Slashdot with affiliate sales link cleverly embedded inside.
2) Profit!

Re:Shameless plug?

[wooby]

Actually I put in my reseller code as an afterthought: why not? DealExtreme really is the best online clone phone retailer, with pictures and comments on most of the common clone models. And, I happen to have a referral code with them. So what, I'm a starving IT student! 3) Ramen

Re:Shameless plug?

[ZerdZerd]

No worries. Nobody read TFA anyway.

Sounds good, especially for prepaid plans

[proxima]

When my contract expires (early next year), I'll be in the market for a new phone and plan. This time around, the prepaid plans I've been seeing might actually be a better deal than what I've been paying.

The trouble is, prepaid phones seem pretty crappy on average. I have a Motorola Razr which I'd likely keep, but sadly it's CDMA (Verizon) so I can't stick a prepaid SIM into it. At the same time, I wouldn't mind ditching my separate mp3 player and having a phone capable of using the wifi I have available in many places. That all points to "smartphones", which can be really expensive without a 2 year plan.

Buying an unlocked phone with a decent OS for $200 and buying some cheap flash might be a good solution. Or, if the hardware sucks and the OS is poorly adapted to it, it might be a frustrating experience. Time will tell, but I'm not anxious to become an early adopter here.

Re:Sounds good, especially for prepaid plans

[slashkitty]

I use a prepaid account with a $250 iphone from apple. Too bad they don't offer that option anymore. It's great for people that don't talk much.

Re:Sounds good, especially for prepaid plans

[RMH101]

Get yourself a recent WinMo phone off ebay for cheap, and run Android on it. The G1 is very similar to many of HTC's current WinMo phones and Android's already been ported to the Kaiser. See XDA-developers.com for details.

Also available under Windows Mobile

[derek_farn]

Where is the news? Android is also available on the commercially available phones running Windows Mobile, eg HTC Kaiser.

Re:Also available under Windows Mobile

[prayag]

Err. Because Android is free and ... open source. No licensing fee, good community support. All you need a developer competent enough to write drivers and you are set to go.

Consumer Electronics

[Ohio Calvinist]

I think Google is unfortunately in a precarious position with Android if it's primary niche becomes crapware-filled knockoff phones or installed on very uninspired and underpowered hardware. They are in the same boat as MS, where a large majority of criticism of the platform from the average consumer is due to OEM modification, pre-loading, and crappy hardware support (via 3rd party drivers).

Linux thrived in a hobbist environment eventually to the point of corprate adoption, which takes both time, a community, and a willingness to run at a loss for a long time. The real key to success is developers whose goal was a OS that was secure, stable and efficent on legacy hardware, and somewhat "peer reviewed". For Android, the average developer is going to produce $3-$5 applets on their own for consumers who have no sense of style or consistency (UI standard). I cringe; personally when I see applications for my iPhone that have no forethought and look like bastard stepchildren compared to my other apps who follow the UI standards. For a consumer good, it needs to be "excellent" (or "better" than the competition) and not only that, downright "sexy" before it hits the masses or it is going be DOA or lackluster at best.

I fear the same methodology that made Linux "proper" great, will make Andriod a cheap OS for cheap phones developed on by bad developers for companies trying to squeeze every last cent of profit out of a "consumer good" like a toaster or DVR. That being said, I hope I am wrong.

Re:Consumer Electronics

[mikeee]

I think Google is unfortunately in a precarious position with Android if it's primary niche becomes crapware-filled knockoff phones or installed on very uninspired and underpowered hardware. They are in the same boat as MS, where a large majority of criticism of the platform from the average consumer is due to OEM modification, pre-loading, and crappy hardware support (via 3rd party drivers).

Hey, it worked for Windows, I don't see why it won't for Google...

OEM modification is the problem; you need to be able to run any android app on any android phone. The el cheapo vendors might actually be better - they won't bother.

Re:Consumer Electronics

[0xdeadbeef]

I cringe; personally when I see applications...

SYNTAX ERROR

I love pointing out the errors of people who say things like this: "for consumers who have no sense of style or consistency".

Re:Consumer Electronics

[pcolaman]

As if the cheap knockoff Chinese Android phones will make a real impact with how Android does. That would be like saying that the cheap Chinese knockoff iPhones are affecting how the iPhone does. Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

Re:Consumer Electronics

[Warbothong]

I think Google is unfortunately in a precarious position with Android if it's primary niche becomes crapware-filled knockoff phones or installed on very uninspired and underpowered hardware. They are in the same boat as MS, where a large majority of criticism of the platform from the average consumer is due to OEM modification, pre-loading, and crappy hardware support (via 3rd party drivers).

Linux thrived in a hobbist environment eventually to the point of corprate adoption, which takes both time, a community, and a willingness to run at a loss for a long time. The real key to success is developers whose goal was a OS that was secure, stable and efficent on legacy hardware, and somewhat "peer reviewed". For Android, the average developer is going to produce $3-$5 applets on their own for consumers who have no sense of style or consistency (UI standard). I cringe; personally when I see applications for my iPhone that have no forethought and look like bastard stepchildren compared to my other apps who follow the UI standards. For a consumer good, it needs to be "excellent" (or "better" than the competition) and not only that, downright "sexy" before it hits the masses or it is going be DOA or lackluster at best.

I fear the same methodology that made Linux "proper" great, will make Andriod a cheap OS for cheap phones developed on by bad developers for companies trying to squeeze every last cent of profit out of a "consumer good" like a toaster or DVR. That being said, I hope I am wrong.

I really really really really really really REALLY hope that entire comment was meant to be sarcastic.

Firstly, Windows is good because of OEMs. Microsoft have to do very little hardware support, because they know that the hardware makers will do it for them (or risk losing money by having a product which doesn't work on 90%+ of machines). Get a machine with Windows and it will work (for a certain value of work, since we are talking about Windows).

Linux is generally bad because of lack of OEMs installing it. Get a generic PC and install Linux on it, there will most likely be graphics issues, Wifi issues and maybe sound issues. This gives the impression to the user that Linux is crap. Buy a system from a Linux supplier like System76, or even Dell, and all that stuff will work, letting the desktop and applications shine through.

This is the exact opposite of your first argument.

Your second argument is just offensive. You're taking your own irrational hatred of phone apps which don't fit in (OK they might be annoying, but that's as far as I'd go), and you're not only applying it as the most important criteria for your own things, but you're trying to apply it to everyone else's phones too.

What on Earth lets you deny other people fully working, functional software which they've written amongst themselves to use on their devices, because you think they're ugly and quirky?

Re:Consumer Electronics

[Ohio Calvinist]

My point was related to applications that would have otherwise been great; but do not fit into the overall design scheme of the platform. The product looks unpolished and is less enjoyable to use. The fact is that most folks care a lot more about how a tool looks than how it internally looks. When i am developing something, we have an entire department that checks that my UI blends with the rest of the product, and the rest of our products.

Regarding putting my criteria on other phones; I'm simply stating that I think that software that does not blend well, often doesn't "feel right" and is not as enjoyable to use. Whatever the UI style for the system is, applications that are designed in that "style" whatever it may be feel more "native" to the system. However, I also feel that a sizable portion of the population feels that way, which is why CPU manufacturers will redesign an LCD monitor with the exact same specifications to make it match the tower; or that both MS and Apple (and probably some linux distros) have Human Interface Guidelines that they encourage developers to follow.

That astehetic is an important component to any consumer good. Few buy toasters based on mean-lifespan of the coils, they buy what looks good next to the coffee pot.

Regarding my first comment about Windows on 3rd party hardware, I've always found MS drivers to be generally stable (even if they don't have all the functionality), and that the quickest way to get an unstable Windows machine is bad drivers. For instance, I read (wish I had the URL) that up to 40% of Vista crashes were due to bad NVidia drivers. The fact is that most consumers are quick to say "Vista Sucks" when their machine blue screens even though poor drivers are going to quickly cause issues on any operating system. Microsoft takes the hit for this, not nVidia. Just like people will say "Android sucks" if OEMs put it on crappy hardware prone to fail, or they bundle in terribly written apps with the phones that can't be removed and perform poorly.

What on Earth lets you deny other people fully working, functional software which they've written amongst themselves to use on their devices, because you think they're ugly and quirky?

I'm not denying anyone anything. I'm just saying that applications that don't follow the UI spec aren't as well recieved by some users, and if the application is ubiquitous or pre-installed and doesn't follow the UI spec, the average user is not nearly as impressed. I'm not going to stop anyone from putting a neon pink barn in their yard, but I guarantee when they go to sell that most buyers will not like it nearly as much and be less likley to buy the house than if the barn matched.

Re:Consumer Electronics

[m_maximus]

Except it's not a knockoff off android, it actually uses the android OS, unlike the iPhone knock off phones which are just a cheap phone made to look like an iPhone. I'm just looking forward to a dual-SIM phone with decent software.

Re:Consumer Electronics

[pcolaman]

It still won't affect the sales of the G1 and similar phones here in the US if the hardware quality is lacking, which is likely.

history repeats itself cuz we weren't listening

[jollyreaper]

But the software running on them is universally awful. Is the clone phone market a vast, nascent install-base for Android, and part of Google's end game?

What, a parallel to the PC/PC-compatible watershed? God, I hope so. The next step is getting them to change the billing rates for wireless, they're killing us.

This could just cut out the big phone brands.

[Dr. Spork]

Basically, you're saying that with Android, a manufacturer wouldn't really even need the support of a big brand of cellphones - since the big brands use China for fabrication, but then pocket some of the money.

So Chinese fabs could just hire a couple of engineers to quickly make clones of devices designed by experts, and there would be a ready-made, free software for those devices. I like it! But it must be a scary thought for companies like Nokia, Motorola, RIM and Apple. Maybe it will drive some hesitation about the use of Android, because everyone will know that knockoffs will work pretty much identically to an Android phone.

Potentially, the big winners here could be the carriers, who could just brand the cheaper hardware.

Re:This could just cut out the big phone brands.

[Microlith]

Cause there's nothing quite like jacking the work of others, right?

Re:This could just cut out the big phone brands.

[pcolaman]

I don't think it's as big an issue as most here seem to fear. In the end, just having Android will not make a phone outsell another Android phone. Having the right hardware setup and having a good software inclusion will make the difference. Also, sometimes you really do get what you pay for. The reason the Chinese iPhone clones aren't hurting the sales of the iPhone is because they suck. The same will go for the Chinese made Android phones, because the implementation of the phone will still be garbage, even if the Android OS installed is the same.

Re:This could just cut out the big phone brands.

[geekoid]

It's not jacking if they give it to you.

Re:This could just cut out the big phone brands.

[Deliveranc3]

"that knockoffs will work pretty much identically to an Android phone"

I had to comment on this plus +5.

Obviously once the software is all the same the devices will run almost identically, this is the whole point of open sourcing an operating system.

Once consumers can install any applications they want, and simply get a data plan, then all phones will work similarly (GTalk could win the IM/SMS format wars for example).

Complaining about similarity in phones is like suggesting that we're better off with seperate operating systems. All phones where you can install custom applications will be similar, and that will be a good thing.

Let's just hope the operating system they settle on is an Ubuntu 8.04 or OsX and not a Redhat 4.x or Windows.

I can't wait to buy an android phone and have my IM, email, ringtones, Skype etc all as part of my data plan (or available wherever wifi is, note to self: tell friends to open their WIFIs). I was very impressed with the dev kit and the demo videos I've seen, I expect to be recommending one to all my friends and family by christmas.

This is VERY good news for consumers and we should all make a point of supporting it.

Also kudos to Google for jumping the shark on the clone wars... it had to happen sometime and I'm glad Google has chosen to strike while the iron is hot and they still have the money to develop Apple (read iPhone) level hardware of their own. Clones are going to hurt Google's sales and their weird supplier contracts (read: Telus) but it will make things better for consumers and therefore for Google through customer choice.

I've just realized how much I hate the telecoms... I have become fan boy, destroyer of worlds :P

What's with the embedded affiliate link?

[Dzimas]

For what it's worth, the DealExtreme link in the summary includes an embedded affiliate code. I appreciate informative links as much as the next guy, but this looks like an attempt to cash in on a /. post.

Re:What's with the embedded affiliate link?

[ryanvm]

So what? The guy is pointing you towards something you're interested in. What does it matter if he makes a little scratch from it?

Now if it were a Slashdot editor's affiliate link, that would be a different story.

Re:What's with the embedded affiliate link?

[Blakey Rat]

Well, considering none of the knock-off phones listed actually HAVE Android installed, hopefully he won't see many purchases. Still, shame for using an affiliate link and not even pointing to the products you're talking about.

Re:What's with the embedded affiliate link?

[Riot.ATL]

I, for one, welcome our affiliate-link-embedding overlo--

Fuck it, you know the drill.

Re:What's with the embedded affiliate link?

[pwnies]

So what? You still get the same information from the story with or without the affiliate code. The article provided me with an insightful look at Chinese knock offs, and having a small referral link doesn't change that.
This is an 'everybody wins' situation. You get a story, slashdot gets content, DealExtreme gets traffic, and the author of the story gets a small kickback for bringing that traffic. Is that such a bad thing?

Re:What's with the embedded affiliate link?

[not already in use]

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Re:What's with the embedded affiliate link?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

For what it's worth, the DealExtreme link in the summary includes an embedded affiliate code. I appreciate informative links as much as the next guy, but this looks like an attempt to cash in on a /. post.

B.F.D.

You're a geek. That means 'news' to you is 'new shiny products on the market'. As a result, most stories you find interesting will be commercials in some form. Should you decide to go purchase the referred product, all you're doing is preventing the guy who brought it to your attention from getting his reward. Real f'ing cool.

History repeating itself...

[religious freak]

I submit that this is 80's PC history repeating itself (ok, maybe it's just rhyming). Again, with Apple pushing a proprietary, tightly controlled hardware/software package and another pushing only the software side (this time it's Google, not MS).

If history is any indication, the open standard will win... these "clones" are an indication of that. Their initial quality will be awful, but if there's a market, quality will improve.

Of course, there are differences and nothing is guaranteed, but the similarities are too striking to ignore.

Re:History repeating itself...

[molotovjester]

I agree whole-heartily with this statement, and I am getting irritated that fan-boys are consistently fearing the open-ness and unity that Android will bring to the marketplace (both corporate and consumer).

Sure there will be power struggles and Microsoftish like problems, but advancing the mobile smart phone is the next step in technology and proprietary technology won't get us there.

Re:History repeating itself...

[jackchance]

If the current success of apple has taught us anything, it is that people don't care about control, monopolies or being locked in. The reason for most of the M$ hating was because it was broke.

In the 80's mac os was not very good. there was no protected memory, it would crash frequently, and the whole resource fork thing was a pain in the ass. windows 95, for all its faults, and especially NT , with NTFS, made windows a better OS than mac at that time.

if android can provide a better experience than WinMo and the iPhone, it will take over. It is becomes the linux of the mobile world, with many different flavors it will find a niche, like linux has, but it won't kill the iPhone.

Re:History repeating itself...

[ZombieRoboNinja]

One difference is that Apple has spent a long time now learning how to keep pace with cheap, popular, and free/open alternatives.

I don't think Apple would even be surprised if you told them that the smart-phone competition will heat up with Android. They just think their own design and engineering is good enough to keep them ahead of the curve, just as they manage to STILL make a lot of money selling Macs despite the lower pricetags of Dell, Microsoft, Linux, etc.

Re:History repeating itself...

[jcmb]

I agree, Google is doing for the cellphone what Microsoft did for the PC: Allow manufactures of cheap computer hardware to run a common popular software platform. This is a huge plus for the consumer: cheaper phones!

Re:History repeating itself...

[pcolaman]

The counter to your argument is that Apple still has a small piece of the pie (even though it is bigger than it was 5 years ago) and MS has pretty much most of the pie, because they did it right in the first place. Like MS, hate MS, want to murder everyone who works at MS, it doesn't matter. One thing where credit must be given is that they chose to work on an open platform and simply provide the software to run on that platform, and it worked. The same principles are being applied by Google, and they are less evil (or at least that's what everyone is supposed to believe) than MS and therefore life will be even better. Personally I believe it simply because of the fact that Google is willing to provide all of the code, no questions asked. They are just looking to profit off of the advertising and such. Not a bad trade off if you ask me. Yeah, there are questions about what they plan on doing with the data they have, but I don't see that on the same level as MS basically keeping a tight control over their software and constantly pushing out buggy code that was either bought, borrowed, or stitched together from a variety of sources.

Re:History repeating itself...

[jmhoule314]

in response to your sig... I do not bite the heads off of chickens

Re:History repeating itself...

[jackchance]

Apple is definitely keeping an eye on android.
i think that android will be good for iPhone users because it will force apple to open the app store up a bit more.

note: it has already eliminated the oppressive NDA

but things certainly need to open up more.

uhh

[LockeOnLogic]

...then why the hell did you buy one? iPhone isn't made for people who want to tinker, its made for my mom and dad. This is like buying a minivan and then bemoaning that you can't start supercharge it to 400hp.

Re:uhh

[Knara]

My lack of mod points makes me unable to mod you up, but your comment is insightful.

Re:uhh

[Synn]

Well, I bought one because it was(arguably still is) the best smart phone on the market.

But that doesn't mean I like Apple and the iPhone OS. It's stupid silly how they have it locked down and I'm tired of the iTunes tie in.

I'll be trading my iPhone out for a G1 soon probably, but I don't at all regret having bought the iPhone back in January. It was the best device around at the time and it's served me well over the last year.

Actually I don't really like the G1 all that much either. I think the hardware isn't as nice as the iPhone hardware. I'm really hoping for an iPhone ripoff with the Android software on it.

But like the iPhone was over the last year, the G1 is probably the best device for me at the current time. So I'll buy one and when something better comes out, I'll move to that.

Re:uhh

[Blimey85]

You apparently know nothing about engines. You don't need to supercharge it to get to 400hp. Just add a nice big nitrous kit. That will give you all the power you need with the added bonus of making really cool explosion sounds as you scatter parts for a half mile.

In all seriousness though, you can get a minivan to 400hp. Some people need the space or like the way it looks or whatever, but want more power. With the iPhone, maybe you like the looks or how it feels in your hand or that it has the touch screen, but maybe you don't like the OS. I agree that it's not currently for people who like to tinker, and that's a shame. I think it would be great if you could actually do whatever you want with stuff you buy.

Re:uhh

[Sybert42]

Wow, sounds just like me. Somewhere between the ringtone system, and the lovely way it deletes your CD music when you have two computers, I felt like a prisoner. Great hardware, very usable. 3g is nice, but won't fix the problems.

At some point I wanted to develop for the iPhone, but it's locked into the Mac. Everything about that phone seems locked.

Re:uhh

[despisethesun]

Not quite 400HP, and not supercharged, but just for fun, you might get a kick out of this based on your comment:

http://www.turbominivan.com/members/terry/

302HP at the wheels, which, assuming a 15% driveline loss (could be more or less, depending on a variety of factors) works out to somewhere in the range of 350HP at the flywheel. The page I found this link on says he's running 11's now, which would indicate that he's probably passed the 400HP mark given the weight and shape of the vehicle, but that's unverified.

I get your sentiment, but sometimes people view things like that as a challenge, not a deterrent.

Re:uhh

[hierophanta]

Well, I bought one because it was(arguably still is) the best smart phone on the market.

really? i had thought blackberry was the best smart phone on the market, you know with their majority market share that they have had for the last few years. http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=575

Re:uhh

[pcolaman]

Considering Motorola has already stated they are going to make a series of devices with Android, and I'm certain that other equipment makers will probably jump on board at least with a handful of devices, I don't think you will have to wait too long for a more elegant android device.

That being said, I think the criticisms on the hardware of the G1 are necessarily fair. I mean, yeah, it doesn't shine, but I like function over form personally and the hardware buttons and the qwerty keyboard suit me more than just having the touch screen.

I respect that that's not good enough for some, but I don't think the G1 was developed as an iPhone killer like some believe and like the gadget media keeps trying to indicate. I think it's aimed more at the audience of people who want a smartphone but want a more open platform than what they are being served by most providers. For instance, I'm a programmer myself and the idea that I can sit down and easily develop applications for my own use for the G1 really drew me towards the Android platform in general. Yeah, you can do that on the iPhone, but not nearly as easily or conveniently as you can on the G1. Not to mention that the SDK was available even before the first device was out and google has already laid out a roadmap for improvements to the platform and SDK. A far cry from what you get from Apple. It's as if Steve Jobs begrudgingly allowed the SDK to be more widely available but really didn't want that to happen.

Re:uhh

[Anonymous Coward]

iPhone isn't made for people who want to tinker

I love how the Apple zealot argument changes course 180 degrees depending on the situation. Since the v1 phone came out, we have been inundated with stories about developing applications for the phone. Now that we know the phone is extremely limited and Apple has the last say over whether you are even allowed to distribute your applications, the Apple zealots are claiming that it is not a developers phone.

MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!!

Either it is a developer's phone and Apple needs to fix its horribly broken development and deployment process or it is NOT and you zealots need to stop hyping the thing on places like Slashdot.

Re:uhh

[pcolaman]

Nothing in Apple's history should've given anyone any indication that any decent amount of tinkering would be allowed by Apple.

Re:uhh

[cloudmaster]

I'm rebuilding the engine in my station wagon with the intention of making just over 400 HP (without a supercharger, turbo, nitrous, etc). For whatever that's worth. :)

Re:uhh

[Andy Dodd]

You should be able to do such a thing - not quite 400HP but still respectably high - http://www.turbovan.net/van.html

Since it's the same engine as Relentless it could have reached 400+ if the owner had wanted to.

Re:uhh

[poetmatt]

Additionally, I have heard praise over having both touchscreen and the blackberry mini-joystick thing on the G1...which is pretty much why I plan to get one. Oh, also that whole not starting at 500$ thing is a pretty good reason too.

Re:uhh

[stephentyrone]

Is McDonalds the best food on the market?

Re:uhh

[bogjobber]

Nothing in Apple's *recent* history. They used to be very friendly to hobbyists, even going so far as shipping the Apple II with full schematics. It's sad they've gone so far in the other direction.

Re:uhh

[lysergic.acid]

that's pretty much how i feel about the PSP. i mean, there really aren't too many (good) products designed specifically for tinkerers because it's pretty much a niche market.

besides, if you're the tinkering type you're going to hack/modify everyday products you use regardless of whether that's what it was designed for. some of the best hacks & mods out there are made for closed systems like the Xbox, PSP, Wii, etc. so it's pretty dumb to say, "X isn't made for tinkerers. so you shouldn't have bought it."

Re:uhh

[putch]

is there another multi-touch device with 3g data support?

Re:uhh

[geekoid]

Hmmm..sounds like a challenge.

Re:uhh

[geekoid]

"But that doesn't mean I like Apple and the iPhone OS. "

agai, why did you buy it? what driving factor was involved in needing to get a smart phone that isn't what you wanted?

I mean you paifd a lot of money and get locked into a horrible rate plane ..why?

I'm guessing it's to be 'cool' like the other kids. Of course, that just leads to you whining about it to sh[w how 'cool' you are.

I suppose it could ahve been a gift.

Re:uhh

[abigor]

There are thousands and thousands of apps in the app store. You make it sound like there are none at all. It is very easy to write something and have it published, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.

Re:uhh

[mobby_6kl]

You can even get a stock minivan with 500 hp. See, everything is possible if you don't limit yourself to buying a trendy piece of shit.

Re:uhh

[dogmatixpsych]

I have to disagree. The iPhone is very unlimited. You just have to take one road to get there. I don't have one but I have an iPod Touch. What I like about it is that it can do tons of things.

Re:uhh

[MacDork]

The app potential is wasted thanks to their draconian controls.

There are thousands and thousands of apps in the app store. You make it sound like there are none at all.

No, that isn't what s/he said at all... and whoever modded him/her troll only did so because they disagreed. Cowmonaut isn't trolling. Numerous apps have been killed by Apple because they compete with iTMS, or because they aren't G-rated enough, etc. I'm sure the number of apps on that page represent a tiny portion of apps that were killed or never even attempted because of Apple's lame policies. Other's like TomTom were simply aborted because of Apple's extremely lame policies toward developers. Sun was excited and ready to port a Java to the iPhone, but again, thanks to Apple's lame policies, Sun is not allowed to port Java to the iPhone.

Apple's policy is so extremely lame that you have to pay Apple just to write an app for their phone. You can't even write an app for your OWN phone without paying them a fee. You cannot distribute an app without distrubuting it through the app store and paying Apple about the same percentage as the US government's highest tax bracket. Apple's policy was so lame in fact that developers have only recently been allowed to discuss iPhone development with other developers openly and write books on the subject. Apple policy on the iPhone is tremendously, stupendously, colossally lame. If you aren't a developer... and you don't appear to be... there aren't words for you to grok how lame Apple policy truly is.

You make it sound like there are none at all.

No, s/he doesn't. But you seem to be spoiling for it.. so I will. I've been able to send faxes with my N95 since before iPhone 1.0. Can iPhone do that yet? I've been using speaker independent voice dialing since before the first iPhone's debut. Can iPhone do that? I can stream internet radio wirelessly through A2DP into my car stereo with my Nokia. Can iPhone do that? Too bad iPhone developers are hobbled by lame Apple policy. If they weren't, you might be able to do what the competition has been doing now for years. I'm still waiting for Apple to offer me a reason to 'upgrade' my 18 month old, already a generation out of date, phone.

iPhone? Fail.

Re:uhh

[tepples]

Nothing in Apple's history should've given anyone any indication that any decent amount of tinkering would be allowed by Apple.

Even Apple's publication of the complete schematics and BIOS source code of some of its 8-bit home computers?

Re:uhh

[pcolaman]

Ok, let me rephrase. Nothing in Apple's history that applies to modern computers. Let's try to focus on technology that is more powerful than a Nintendo NES. You and I both know that the current Apple company is a far cry from that Apple.

Re:uhh

[Blimey85]

That's pretty damn awesome. Finally a minivan that men can be proud to drive! Men that have $80k to drop on a minivan of course.

Re:uhh

[abigor]

Sorry for the late response.

I am a developer, actually, and now an iPhone developer too.

While your criticisms are valid, the market has spoken differently. The iPhone and the app store have been very successful. The cost of the sdk is inconsequential compared to the money saved by not having to market your product yourself. The number of rejected apps is dwarfed by the number of apps available. So for the average consumer, it's just dandy.

Your needs don't sync up with what the great majority of people use their phones for, that's all. For you, the iPhone clearly isn't a good fit. To say it's a failure when it has the sorts of sales numbers it does is truly absurd, and to tell the truth you kind of come off smelling like an irrational Apple hater, "MacDork".

keyboard?

[Nate Fox]

the problem with an iphone clone is there's no keyboard. and theres no software keyboard in android yet. once thats added, I'm sure this will happen

Re:keyboard?

[BobMcD]

Maybe someday you can just use something like this:

apt-get install software-keyboard

Re:keyboard?

[schnogg]

I really just want to be able to sync a bluetooth keyboard to it. that's all. That, or one of those projected keyboards. http://www.engadget.com/2005/01/20/itechs-got-the-latest-bluetooth-virtual-keyboard/

sounds cool, but

[steak]

are there actually tools available to put android on these phones or is this just a site pimp?

Re:sounds cool, but

[pcolaman]

The source is freely available. Requires a Mac or *nix to build the source, but it can be used even in non-phones (although I don't know how much sense that would make, other than maybe in an internet appliance perhaps). Can't be built currently on Windows, but that would not make much sense anyways. The bigger question is when are we going to see a non-big company release of an Android device, and who is it going to come from?

They're cheap for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of these phones have a 30 - 60Mhz ARM core with 4-8megs of RAM. No Nucleus based phone is going to run Android anytime soon. The ones that run Windows Mobile might, but they're far from what I'd call cheap.

Re:They're cheap for a reason

[pcolaman]

Most of the phones will just have a look and feel that sort of kind of but only in a stupid crappy sort of way resembles the Android interface. Unless they use the same quality hardware as what the G1 runs under the hood.

The History Books Will Mark This Day

[filesiteguy]

...and on November 29th, 2008, Android became self-aware...

Re:Sure. Why not?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

~1982

With Microsoft's freedom to licence MS-DOS, we may soon see IBM-PC clones of Texas origin capable of running MS-DOS...

Yeah, that aside, this could definitely be relevant. In general, the whole genre of surprisingly cheap offbrand stuff from China offers decent hardware quality(in many cases the same as the expensive branded stuff, since it is the same); but abysmal software and support, buggy firmware, anonymous driver disks that support 50-odd products(not including the one you bought), untranslated or poorly translated interfaces, etc. For me, this has generally meant that such hardware is a good deal for things that have standardized drivers(USB HID, Mass Storage Class, etc.) or things like USB-serial adapters where there are only a few chipsets, all supported by linux. Such hardware has historically been a poor deal in situations where standard drivers aren't available. If Android can be made to be a solid OS for clonephones, that will make them markedly more attractive to me.

I doubt that joe user will ever get into buying clonephones and loading Android himself, given that joe user considers his phone to be an appliance, and would be nervous about reloading Windows; but it isn't hard to imagine the business opportunities for someone with the tech skill to import OEM clonephones by the crate, slap a pulled-together Android distro on them, and maybe supply some documentation, not unlike the small; but very much alive, niche of *nix based computer sellers.

Android... more like Skynet

[crypticedge]

Everyone knows once they get past 30 or 40% market penetration they will flip the "Take over and destroy the world" switch causing our phones to form skynet.

Regarding your sig -

[Eg0Death]

Thank you! It's nice to be recognized!

So...

[Opr33Opr33]

Where is our ad supported g phone? Give me free 3G access, and I will be standing in line.

Submitted from my Mozilla browser with Ad Block set to kill...

Android shouldnt just be for phones

[CdBee]

I would like to see it on Netbooks, its probably more appropriate than a full desktop OS for such a specialised bit of hardware....

Re:Android shouldnt just be for phones

[daver00]

Seriously dude regular smart phones are bricks enough when held up to the ear, can you imagine trying to hold a 9" laptop up to your ear and talk?

Re:Android shouldnt just be for phones

[CdBee]

I swear the average IQ level of postings around here is sinking fast. It should be - no, sorry, it is - blindingly obvious that when i say NETBOOKS I mean items which are NOT A PHONE and therefore ARENT USED TO MAKE CALLS

Re:Android shouldnt just be for phones

[daver00]

WHOOSH!

It was a joke mate, a joke. Irony, sarcasm, all mixed up into one stupid little comment that was supposed to extract a giggle.

I swear the sense of humor in people everywhere is sinking fast... Do we really have to flag every sarcastic comment for people?

Judging by your sig you probably don't take much of anything with a sense of humor now do you son?

Regardless....

[netglen]

Regardless of which uber phone/OS device you chose, it'll still cost you an arm and a leg for the monthly data service rate.

Make it work on my HTC Diamond

[CoolCat]

Hope google make android work with htc diamond. Release me from my pain :)

Re:Make it work on my HTC Diamond

[RMH101]

Google won't, XDA-developers.com probably will. Most activity when I last checked was around porting it to the Kaiser but the chipset of most current HTC handsets are very similar...

Re:Make it work on my HTC Diamond

[CoolCat]

I have been playing with XDA builds, but unfortunately software fails during kernel init. Hope they manage to fix this.

Forcing the Airwaves Open

[Doc Ruby]

I hope that Google's "end game" (really just a beginning, natch) is to force open access to wireless carrier networks. "Roaming" charges and other lockins that bundle the physical network with the data, its servers, and (in the US) even the client HW are entirely against the openness of networks that has made them extremely valuable for everyone. Until networks were opened and unbundled, they were not so much engines for growth as they were accessories. Telcos and other network operators long ago stopped innovating in any area other than lobbying, lawsuits and restrictive licensing. All the growth in value comes from people competing to offer services on open networks.

Google is one of those innovative competitors. I hope they can force Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, T-Mobile and the few other wireless carriers to join the 21st Century's openness and growth.

Re:Forcing the Airwaves Open

[impaledsunset]

Where is the "+1 What a nice dream" option?

The open airwaves is one of things that will inevitably happen one day, but it will happen slow. Very slow. I wish Google would make it faster, but aren't we overtrusting their power (and good intentions)?

And, by the way, I feel more comfortable when I read "we will", "we might", than "they will", "they might", or even worse "I hope they will". In a sense, we are together in this struggle, and the outcome depends on me and you, too. :)

Re:Forcing the Airwaves Open

[trouser]

You know the waves don't use air, they will propagate in a vacuum. Perhaps you meant radio waves?

Re:Forcing the Airwaves Open

[Doc Ruby]

The more we all want it, and say so in public, the faster we will find opportunities to get there. Google is probably the most aggressive force pursuing open mobile networks, because open networks have a high demand for their services. So I'm encouraging us all in public to see that specific benefit to this particular development.

That's what I'm doing (among other, private actions). What are you doing to get us there?

Re:Forcing the Airwaves Open

[Doc Ruby]

Nah, I'm just a geek who has occasional little conversations on Slashdot, and occasionally does things that make the world better for other people, especially geeks. When I'm not having a full life in the real world.

You, on the other hand, are a stupid cunt with nothing better to do than play word games with yourself while you stalk me on Slashdot, as you just unequivocally demonstrated. What a fucking fool you are.

Better virtual keyboards?

[RustinHWright]

The biggest thing keeping me from buying an iPhone/iTouch is that dimwitted virtual keyboard that covers half the screen. Do you cover half your screen with an indicator bar or other utility on your desktop? No. You set things up so that you can see more than two lines of type at a time in your app. So why should I want such a thing on my mobile?

My broader point is that this leverages perhaps the most offensive thing about the iPhone, the Apple-controlled app store, which has shown that they will refuse to sell anything that they, in their imperial wisdom, decide overlaps with an Apple-provided or even Apple-blessed app.
Personally, I would prefer a tablet device about one inch bigger than the iPhone in both width and length but in truth, give me a device with good hardware and the ability to actually write stuff and I'm there.

Watch mobile phone prices plummet.

[miffo.swe]

If the chineese are smart they can make Sony Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola and go away fairly soon. If every cheap chineese phone comes with Android the applications catalogue will make them interesting all by itself. They are dumb if they dont travel down this road.

Asus is going to go Android as well

[BlackCreek]

Today from engaget: http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/29/asus-said-to-be-launching-android-handset-in-first-half-of-09/

[Asus' phone] will roll out sometime in the first half of 2009 (we're guessing late first half),

Re:Sure. Why not?

[lysergic.acid]

why wouldn't the Chinese knockoff manufacturers just sell their phones with Android installed on them in the first place? they have no real attachment to a shittier OS (unlike carrier-rebranded phones), and they'd save on both development costs and also move more product.

so it'll likely only be people using AT&T/Cingular-branded phones, or perhaps even the iPhone, who actually have to install Android on their own.

of course--welcome the new Microsoft, Android

[recharged95]

If the NeoFreeRunner [does] gets it's port to Android in the next few weeks, then all the clones will adopt Android. I mean the FreeRunner is in the end, a cheap commodity hardware experiment, with an OSS design (CAD and electronics!), not like a optimized/disposable RIM or iPhone.. Just get the bill of materials, substitute a 3G chip and bigger battery and you can have better-than iPhone capability for

Worse case, is that if the Freerunner port comes out, I can see a bigger vendor than FIC turn out Neo-like phones for $50 with EDGE. If that happens, then the clones now have a platform to shoot for--which is what DOS did for PCs.

Re:of course--welcome the new Microsoft, Android

[mr_mischief]

Now, if only someone would do with Edge or HSDPA on phones what PPP did for the Internet in homes. Cheap, ubiquitous access without huge overages for actually using your connection would be nice. Really high speeds can come later, after I can use ssh from anywhere in the country with the same phone and download more than a DVD's worth of data a month.

Are Java standards that hot?

[heroine]

If people gladly replaced iPhone's simple Objective C interfaces to run Goog's insanely complex Java implementations instead, that would be something about human nature.

Smartphone OS = ideal for netbooks

[CdBee]

Than, not For (it changes the meaning)

Netbooks are used appliance-style, few applications are installed and the principle usages are PIM-style apps, web apps, surfing, media replay (classic smartphone usages)

Furthermore, the OS on a netbook is ideally tailored to run of low-powered hardware, optimised for small screens and long battery life, has to support various input methods (keyboard, mouse, stylus, touchscreen) and various communications/networking technologies - again these are the classic necessities of a Smartphone OS

Also remember that several of the presentday Smartphone OS's (Symbian, PalmOS, Windows Mobile) are directly descended from PDA operating systems. In my idealised example, a Smartphone OS migrates the other way, for the same reasons.

common hertiage for iphone, gphone

[bbeaven]

Interesting common heritage for both phones/platforms... http://8cproject.wordpress.com/2008/10/29/space-technology-now-appearing-in-a-pocket-near-you/

Of course Google wants cheap Chinese phones, too.

[mr_mischief]

It's not taking over the whole world if you don't include China. China's part of the world, too. :-/

Bort

[Discotechnica]

"We need more Bort license plates in the gift shop. I repeat, we are sold out of Bort license plates."

It need some magic

[kentsin]

If you are really interested, go shanzhaiji.cn

The so call ShanZhaiERs were not high tech manufacturers. They depend on others to provide the necessary technology.

They are smart, willing to adapt to new tech, they are creative also.

So, if the condition are well, that will sure happen.

Um, open-source OS kernel, compiler, printing...

[Anonymous Coward]

The kernel source is open. The are funding an open source compiler and an open-source printing system...

By Christmas in Aus

[fabs64]

More evidence of the commoditisation of the handset market:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/digital-life/smart-phone/google-phone-here-by-xmas/2008/10/30/1224956198293.html

Oh please let it be so...

Clones

[VincenzoRomano]

The China will later clone Android and finally Google itslef!

Re:And there's yor inevitable response

[Doc Ruby]

No, it's much simpler than all that, where you have some desperate need to have sex with me.

You say something stupid, I slap you down. What's truly inevitable is that you respond with something even more stupid, composed at length, even more desperate to have sex with me. You're really crazy stupid.