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How To Make Money With Free Software

Posted by timothy on from the actual-money dept.

fons writes "Dutch Python hacker/artist Stani took part in a contest organised by the Dutch Ministry Of Finance to design a 5 euro commemorative coin. And he won, using only free software: 'The whole design was done for 100% with free software. The biggest part consists of custom software in Python, of course within the SPE editor. For the visual power I used PIL and pyCairo. From time to time also Gimp, Inkscape and Phatch helped quite a bit. All the developing and processing was done on GNU/Linux machines which were running Ubuntu/Debian. I would have loved to release the coin under the GPL, which could maybe solve the financial crisis. However for obvious reasons I was not allowed to do that.'"

187 comments

  1. How to Make Money with Free Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    "How To Make Money With Free Software"

    Just send eight bits to the next eight posters on this Slashdot thread. Within five iterations, you'll have 32 kilobytes of source code!

    Here. I'll start.

    "00101111"

    1. Re:How to Make Money with Free Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      00101111 00101110

    2. Re:How to Make Money with Free Software by fireman+sam · · Score: 1

      Wow, that died quickly.

      --
      it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
    3. Re:How to Make Money with Free Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I take it you don't know your ASCII table by heart? 00101111 00101110 is far from dead.

  2. Wow by geekoid · · Score: 1

    that's a ice looking coin, well done.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, it's very well done and like the best art it has a lot of depth and thought put into it. Congratulations!

    2. Re:Wow by FreeFull · · Score: 0

      You just have to make sure it doesn't melt.

      --
      No ascii art.
    3. Re:Wow by Technician · · Score: 1

      The rendering for the movie Monsters Inc is a great example. That movie made how much?

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  3. More like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More like "How to prepare a contest entry using only free software"

    1. Re:More like... by JCSoRocks · · Score: 0

      Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. You could have the same title for an article about an author that wrote a book using OpenOffice.

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
    2. Re:More like... by woot+account · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or the purpose of the article is to bring light to the fact that he won the contest using only FOSS software, and they chose the title of "How to Make Money" as a pun, where you would assume they meant "how to profit", but they literally meant "how to design money".

      --
      By what name do you wish to be mourned?
    3. Re:More like... by moderatorrater · · Score: 4, Funny

      You could have the same title for an article about an author that wrote a book using OpenOffice.

      Slashdot actually rejected my submission when I did just that. It's a pity, too; Return of Macbeth is an instant classic.

    4. Re:More like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      More like "How to prepare a contest entry using only free software"

      You don't get it... He made money. He really MADE the money!

    5. Re:More like... by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 1

      It's the title the linked blogger chose for his blog post on this subject. Geez.

    6. Re:More like... by apathy+maybe · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've always wanted to work in a mint. And then go on strike. To make less money.

      (Not the original quote, and I can't remember who said it originally. But relevant for this context.)

      --
      I wank in the shower.
    7. Re:More like... by shmlco · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I followed some of some of the links and it appears that he won the contest, not that he made any money in doing so.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    8. Re:More like... by shmlco · · Score: 0, Troll

      No, he designed the money. The Dutch mint will actually MAKE the money.

      BTW, this just reinforces the fact the F/OSS people can't design. That coin, especially the back, has to be one of the ugliest things I've ever seen.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    9. Re:More like... by lahvak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But he was *making money*, get it? Coin - money...

      Anyway, the interesting thing here is not that he designed something with free software, people do that all the time, but that his design won. Of course I didn't read the article, but A assume his was not the only entry, and that at least some other entries were prepared with proprietary software.

      So it wouldn't be "an author wrote a book using OpenOffice" but rather "a book written using OpenOffice won some prize". Of course books created by free software regularly win top places at typography contests, so it would still not be that unusual.

      There is, however, certain feeling among both professionals and public that in the area of graphics design, proprietary software rules, and using free software gives you a serious handicap. That is what makes this interesting.

      --
      AccountKiller
    10. Re:More like... by Bryansix · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes but instead of the word "with" they could have used the word "using" and then it would have made sense and been a better pun at the same time.

    11. Re:More like... by jonaskoelker · · Score: 2, Funny

      That coin, especially the back, has to be one of the ugliest things I've ever seen.

      The distended anus of the child of tubgirl and Rick Astley?

    12. Re:More like... by burndive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I believe you mean, "Return of the Scottish Character".

      --
      ...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
    13. Re:More like... by spike2131 · · Score: 1

      The dutch actually have a long history of ugly modernist coinage.

      --
      SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container
    14. Re:More like... by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      Does that actually matter in print? I'm pretty sure it's only a problem if you say it aloud. Wikipedia claims it's only a problem if you're currently in a theatre, or working in a play...

      Wikipedia's full of shit, but still, I don't think posting the Scots tragedy on Slashdot will get you any bad karma.

    15. Re:More like... by treeves · · Score: 1

      Sounds like something Steven Wright would say. Or Emo Phillips.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    16. Re:More like... by sulfur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are comparing apples to oranges here. For a book, content is pretty much all that matters, and a very good book can be written using Notepad. However, designing something in an image manipulation program uses a lot of that program's features, so this program plays an important role in the end product.

    17. Re:More like... by Grismar · · Score: 1

      Awww, everybody got their hopes up and it wasn't even April 1. Quick, find something that -is- wrong with the title so we can save face!

    18. Re:More like... by MooUK · · Score: 1

      Yet you don't say the name of that Scottish play yourself...

    19. Re:More like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a pity, too; Return of Macbeth is an instant classic.

      http://philtulk.com/college/macbeth.html this one?
      http://www.abcsport.com.au/rn/deepend/stories/2006/1692323.htm this one?

    20. Re:More like... by Curmudgeonlyoldbloke · · Score: 1

      I'd rather have the old "Monopoly Money" Guilders than any-colour-you-like-as-long-as-its-green US Dollars. Since the move to Euros, it's not been the same.

    21. Re:More like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikipedia is relatively accurate in this case. When I used to do theater, whenever someone uttered that play inside, we'd immediately expel him until they had cleansed himself of the curse.

      Anecdotal, sure, but it's still a common superstition.

  4. Making money by homer_s · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would have loved to release the coin under the GPL, which could maybe solve the financial crisis.

    Actually, people printing too much money was how this crisis started in the first place.
    (and they are going to solve it by ... issuing more credit).

    1. Re:Making money by Kjella · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, people printing too much money was how this crisis started in the first place.
      (and they are going to solve it by ... issuing more credit).

      Is that what they call the XML solution?

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Making money by dkf · · Score: 1

      Is that what they call the XML solution?

      With XML, you can just mod the syntax -1 Redundant. It doesn't work like that with financial crises...

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    3. Re:Making money by Tawnos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wasn't really caused by printing too much money (especially since a lot of the money was never printed, but just given out on paper). The issue is more that the money loaned out was secured in a way that didn't correctly model the risk of giving out that money. When it was found that the assumptions made were faulty and began to unwind, a whole ton of shit hit the fan. I'm not going to suggest (in this post) who caused the problem, loaners or takers, and if the problem is being best resolved, but the problem wasn't caused by loaning out too much.

    4. Re:Making money by fm6 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You seem to be under the impression that all the banks just failed had the ability to print money. If they had, do you think they would have failed?

      Printing too much money doesn't cause this kind of crisis, which is actually about a shortage of money. What printing too much money does is cause inflation. That's how the German hyperinflation happened. During that period, the German economy roared right along, and everybody was employed, even though they were paid with worthless paper.

    5. Re:Making money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Wasn't really caused by printing too much money (especially since a lot of the money was never printed, but just given out on paper).

      Printing too much money is a metaphor for creating too much one through one means or another.

      The issue is more that the money loaned out was secured in a way that didn't correctly model the risk of giving out that money. When it was found that the assumptions made were faulty and began to unwind, a whole ton of shit hit the fan.

      Sounds like a fancy way of saying "created too much money."

      but the problem wasn't caused by loaning out too much

      By your above statement, it was. What do you think "didn't correctly model the risk" lead to? Too much money being loaned.

    6. Re:Making money by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      But they didn't actually create money : they had money and gave it to people with the (damn stupid) expectation that it would be returned with interest.

      Printing money would be if the government intentionally introduced more money into the financial system. It is not in any way a 'metaphor.' It is clearly distinguishable from the causes of the present crisis.

    7. Re:Making money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The good thing about money is its a common exchange for goods and services.

      The bad thing about money is when you start making money from money (stock exchanges, hedge funds etc), bubbles form and always collapse.

      So having a GPL currency is actually a great idea. If you can only exchange a GPL Euro on the condition you spend it and do invest it in hedge funds, stock exchanges etc there would be no crisis.

      There have been similar ideas for centuries and its called local currencies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency)

    8. Re:Making money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fractional reserve banking system, every time money is borrowed from a lending institution, 90% of it is out of thin air, increasing the money supply. It wasn't 'just' improper risk analysis, but also low interest rates by the Fed which helped fuel the crisis by helping to create the housing/credit bubble.

      The phrase âoePrinting more moneyâ is understood by me to represent the Federal Reserve monetizing the debt (i.e., buying bonds from the Treasury with money out of thin air), whether this is real paper currency (it probably never is), or electronic money made by computer keystrokes changing an entryzin a leger.

      Why does the government borrow non-existent money from a private central bank(the Fed) at interest? And why does a 'free market economy' have a central bank in the first place? Something fishy is going on...

    9. Re:Making money by MooUK · · Score: 1

      In the case of most banks, your sentence should be modified to "they had some money and gave ten, twenty, or more times that amount of money to people"

    10. Re:Making money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe that the sentence in the article was what is known in the trade as "a joke".

    11. Re:Making money by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      You seem to be under the impression that all the banks just failed had the ability to print money. If they had, do you think they would have failed?

      Banks are allowed to loan out more money than they have in their reserves. This is essentially a government-granted right to make money out of thin air.

      That being said, during this banking crisis, only the banks that are reserve-rich, for instance all the banks that Warren Buffett owns, are able to make money out of thin air. The other banks, the ones that failed, had already exceeded their legal limit.

      What printing too much money does is cause inflation. That's how the German hyperinflation happened. During that period, the German economy roared right along, and everybody was employed, even though they were paid with worthless paper.

      May be, that's what caused our housing inflation then. The US economy was roaring along just fine, we were all making plenty of money, it's just that most of us couldn't afford to buy houses even with plenty money anymore.

      It's like with any ponzi scheme, it all goes great initially, but then something got to give.

    12. Re:Making money by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Printing too much money is a metaphor for creating too much one through one means or another.

      Well, one should be careful of believing metaphors too much. It is possible to make your metaphor work, but only through considerable twists of logic. The question you have to ask whenever you do that: is it worth the effort? Does the metaphor tell you anything worth knowing? The GP is precisely right: people don't know how much risk they've undertaken, so they don't know how many of their assets are, in accounting terms, "cash equivalents". So what has happened is that the flow of money through the economy has been gummed up. This is exactly the opposite immediate effect from what you'd get "printing more money" (actually extending more credit). People would not be able to get rid of their dollars fast enough, lest they be inflated away.

      Here's a metaphor that is much better than the printing one, a metaphor that derives from accounting but draws upon physics: anti-money. The way you get a certain number of dollars into circulation is to create an equal number of anti-dollars. Eventually, the dollars return to annihilate and be annihilated by anti-dollars.

      The process of creating money and anti-money is called "credit".

      Every dollar borrowed by a big bank from the Fed is balanced by an anti-dollar on the Fed's books. When the Fed reduces interest rates, then banks borrow more cheap dollars from it, putting more dollars into circulation, balanced by anti-dollars on the Fed's ledgers. However: while the Fed influences the money supply, it's not the only or main creator of money. Anybody can create money, perfectly legally by extending credit. A dollar exists if an only if everyone believes it is there..

      If I were Warren Buffet, I could write on a piece of paper, "Pay to the bearer one million dollars. Signed, Warren Buffet" then hand you that piece of paper, writing "one million anti-dollars" on my ledgers. You could go out and spend that "million dollars" as if it were a bundle of 50,000 $20 bills. As long as that paper was absolutely convincing, as long as everybody agreed that note was worth a million dollars, it would be a million dollars.

      You could deposit it in a bank, which put it in its vault. Since the note can't be conveniently divvied up, what they do in effect is create a million dollars of money and a million dollars of anti-money, securing the promise represented by that creation to their ability to demand a million dollars from me. That's very important. The promises represented by money form a kind of chain of obligations, ultimately anchored to the Treasury's endless ability to create dollars. When financial transactions occur, the chain is reconfigured. When I issue the note I forge a ring in the chain and link that to my upstream debtors. When your bank redeems the note, I take my ring out of the chain and splice them directly to my upstream debtors.

      That's where printing comes in. Nobody wants a lot of physical dollars; they don't want tens of thousands of dollars in their wallets, or billions of dollars in bills in their vaults. But they want to know that if they yank on their end of the chain, the Treasury will respond by printing a dollar. That's what the full faith and credit of the United States amounts to: a promise to print as many dollars as the Fed says exists. In practice the amount of physical dollars is an infinitesimal fraction of the total dollars in circulation; the capacity to supply virtual demand is transmutes credit into money. If any upstream link in the chain is questionable, all the downstream credit ceases to be money and becomes investment.

      The source of the current problem is that the financial system has attempted the equivalent of pulling itself up by the bootstraps. Individual institutions discovered that they could insure securities with things like credit default swaps. That means instead of carefully

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    13. Re:Making money by Rennt · · Score: 1

      But they didn't actually create money : they had money and gave it to people with the (damn stupid) expectation that it would be returned with interest.

      Maybe. I'm not an accountant (God forbid!), but if the banks recorded this potential interest as an asset, when there could be no reasonable expectation that they would ever see it, didn't they just effectively invent money from thin air? Does not seem that different to "printing" money to me - though perhaps "counterfeiting" would be a better word

      The government SHOULD be the only one who can print money, but because they were not the only ones doing it we are in this situation.

    14. Re:Making money by fm6 · · Score: 1

      By your definition, anybody who indulges in creative accounting has the ability to "print money". Playing those kinds of games can make you temporarily richer, but it doesn't actually increase the money supply. If it did, you could drop the "temporarily" from the above statement.

      And yes, the banks' creative accounting did inflate housing prices. (Though not nearly as much as lending billions of dollars to people who had no hope of paying it back.) But again, that's not "printing money". If a con man blows into town and buys up all the local Sousaphones with rubber checks, you will certainly see a run up in the price of Sousaphones. But when those checks bounce, the Sousaphone inflation is likely to go away.

      I say again: printing money is a perfectly effective way of counteracting the kind of downturn we're experiencing now. It's also very dangerous, but that's another issue.

    15. Re:Making money by Ottair · · Score: 1

      The underlying risk models may have been faulty but they weren't the only reason for the crisis, unrealistic changes in accounting standards used to determine the day to day value of assets made an accurate assessment of the underlying worth of securities next to impossible in a fast moving down market.

    16. Re:Making money by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      By your definition, anybody who indulges in creative accounting has the ability to "print money". Playing those kinds of games can make you temporarily richer, but it doesn't actually increase the money supply. If it did, you could drop the "temporarily" from the above statement.

      It's not the same thing. If I loan you money for instance, I need to have 100% of that money I'm loaning you. A bank on the other hand, is given the legal right to loan more money than it has in its reserves. It's a government-granted privilege no one else has.

      Other people and other businesses can play creative accounting, but that's usually done at the level of the assets. That in itself does nothing to increase the money supply. The banks on the other hand are allowed to play creative accounting at the cash level. It's a completely different game.

  5. Uh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would have loved to release the coin under the GPL, which could maybe solve the financial crisis.

    Whats next, printing your own cash? Too bad the governments got the market on that cornered.

  6. easy by commodoresloat · · Score: 0

    1. Use free software to collect poop^W^W create porn
    2. ???
    3. Profit!!

  7. And Have More Revenue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    than Canonical.

  8. Gnomes know how to make money with free software by freegeets · · Score: 1

    Step One: Collect Free Software Step Two: ????? Step Three: PROFIT!!!

  9. Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wonder if he got permission to use the side of the books.

  10. Yes, runaway inflation would solve the crisis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Excellent plan. Let's devalue everyone's cash.

  11. Re:Gnomes know how to make money with free softwar by jalet · · Score: 1

    More like :

      - Step one : collect coins
      - Step two : collect more coins
      - Step three : ???
      - Step four : PROFIT !

    --
    Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
  12. This is an excellent example by femto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This guy won due to superior design, not due to the fact that he used free software. The free software is in the background, contributing but almost incidental to the final product. That's how is should be though. Free software released the artist from the constraints of having to fit in with someone else's idea of what software or technology he should be allowed to use, leaving him free to be creative and follow his own unique path.

    1. Re:This is an excellent example by elashish14 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nevertheless, it's good publicity for FOSS. If you show that you can be productive with it, more adoption.

      In fact, if more people that use FOSS say it, it will remove the stigma that such software is substandard to the business alternatives.

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
    2. Re:This is an excellent example by Bryansix · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Uhm, there is an excellent chance that he would NEVER be able to afford all that software if he actually had to buy it at commercial going rates. So the free software was a great tool which was also an enabler in this situation.

    3. Re:This is an excellent example by fm6 · · Score: 1

      This guy won due to superior design, not due to the fact that he used free software.

      I disagree. I'm not saying the judges said "Ooh, this guy used Python, let's give him the prize." But they must have reacted to the unusual nature and the playfulness of his design, and that's very much a reflection of the way he went about designing it.

      And the way Stani went about designing it is very unusual for a graphic designer. But not for a member of the Open Source community. The members of that community are motivated by their love of a clever hack, more so even than the desire to create useful software. This sort of creative algorithm fiddling showed in the final design, and must have struck the judges as fresh and different, whether or not they understood where it came from.

    4. Re:This is an excellent example by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      Free software released the artist from the constraints of having to fit in with someone else's idea of what software or technology he should be allowed to use, leaving him free to be creative and follow his own unique path.

      Because he could fix gimp bugs in a snap and pay me to design and implement for him his own half-gimp-half-emacs-half-manbearpig tool.

      This is a story about how free software simply does the job and gets out of the way, not about how the starving artist is also a programmer or can afford one.

      The story about why the free software simply does the job and gets out of the way, that's probably an interesting one.

    5. Re:This is an excellent example by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      I just love making abundantly clear through my actions that I didn't even bother to read the summary.

      I blame the editors ;)

    6. Re:This is an excellent example by xTantrum · · Score: 1

      Once again another misleading title on /. I'm actually developing some software which i will be releasing to the open source community. I honestly feel i owe it to them, because FOSS has given me a lot. However i still am earnestly searching for a solution whereby i can make money from it. Right now its looking something like a business model similar to Sun's JAVA or alternatively something like MySql. We'll see maybe I'll get some helpful hints off /. *shrugs*

      --
      $action = empty(PHP) ? backToC() : unset(PHP) ; "when the concrete cases are understood, the abstractions are readily
    7. Re:This is an excellent example by femto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree with you but for different reasons. The judges would have been oblivious to the fact the free software was used to design the coin. They gave the award based in the design in front of them, uninfluenced by its means of production. The artist won 100% based on his design. Hence the first part of my comment.

      Tool selection is part of the behind the scenes design process. The free software tools contributed to the artist's ability to realise his design. He might have been able to do it without free software, but would have had to divert effort from being creative into forcing the tools to do his will. Being able to afford the tools for the job is part of it, but I think a larger issue is that free software provided the customisability to get the job done.

      This is why I think it's an excellent example: he won the prize entirely though his own resourcefulness, but free software allowed his resourcefulness to go places it otherwise could not have.

      Observation: Funny that I just came out with words to the effect of "where do you want to go today?", the old MS slogan. The important thing is not the question, but the answer. Some software will let you go lots of places. The excellent case in point, the example of the coin, has demonstrated that free software's answer is "wherever you want to go".

    8. Re:This is an excellent example by ozphx · · Score: 1

      Release it open source if you can't maintain it yourself and will need help you can't afford, or that the majority of your income will come from selling support.

      Otherwise, keep that shit to yourself. OSS is a pretty damn weak contract for making sure people give back to you.

      Bugger the "owing FOSS". You don't owe shit. Unless you are using a project that has licensors regret. (Had that before - "Why don't your release source for your product?"... "Its internal"... "But its not in the *spirit* of the GPL")

      --
      3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
    9. Re:This is an excellent example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It would not have been possible with "normal" software. "Normal" software would have resulted in a "normal" design that would not have stood out and won the prize. You get prizes for standing out from the pack, not for sitting on beaches. Normal artists don't customise their tools or win prizes. Exceptional artists innovate with their tools and win acclaim.

      It's an example of a master wielding his tools to produce a masterpiece. The great masters innovated in their production techniques. It's one of the things that sets a master apart from a mere handle turner.

      FOSS is getting to a sweet point where it is the domain of masters. It has matured to the point where it is productive, but agile enough to do new things.

    10. Re:This is an excellent example by syousef · · Score: 1

      Pity the article makes it sound like the only way you can make a buck with free software is to enter an obscure competition to design a commemorative coin and then win. Then again that might not be too far off ;-)

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    11. Re:This is an excellent example by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      OMG, but don't you understand, that means someone somewhere has done something concrete that means something in the real world using FOSS software! That means that these billions of man-hours invested in developing FOSS weren't spent in vain!

      Hallelujah and Freesoftwaruh Akbar!

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    12. Re:This is an excellent example by CBravo · · Score: 1

      True, but I think the point is that it didn't restrict the designer in question.

      --
      nosig today
    13. Re:This is an excellent example by bmcage · · Score: 1

      you forget the guy is also a famous contributor to FOSS, which is proof of the fact FOSS is made by dedicated people who want the best of the tools they use, and aren't happy with shitty products. So he is not just an artist being liberated by FOSS, he is an artist that created FOSS in his drive for control over what he creates.

    14. Re:This is an excellent example by T-Bone-T · · Score: 1

      How dos photoshop constrain me in a meaningful way that gimp doesn't? It sounds to me like the last part of your statement doesn't agree with the first part. First you said it wasn't the software then you said it was the software.

  13. Maybe he'll create for our edification a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WikiWiki CoinCoin?

    (just MY 2 cents..., less depreciation and currency exchange rates)

    1. Re:Maybe he'll create for our edification a by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      (Damn Post Anonymously Button.....Thought I was hitting "No Karma"... frack me... blew it!)

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  14. I don't get it.... by HerculesMO · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's the big deal?

    I've seen people recreate entire scenes from "Lost" in MS Paint, but it doesn't mean it's the easier or faster way to do it.

    Just means it can be done. I'm not devaluing the work done here, or the benefit of open source software but seriously... I don't see the big deal in this article.

    --
    The price is always right if someone else is paying.
    1. Re:I don't get it.... by billcopc · · Score: 0, Troll

      The big deal is that his adsense blog gets a good slashdotting this way.

      Nevermind the fact that he isn't showing any code, so in theory he could have done the whole thing with commercial software, then written a few keyword-rich paragraphs to troll us.

      The best part is we'll never know.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    2. Re:I don't get it.... by HonestButCurious · · Score: 5, Informative

      Did you RTFA (or more specifically LATFC)? This coin has algorithmic outputs both on the front (the Queen made out of architect names) and on the back (an outline of Holland made out of books). I can't see how anybody could create it using Photoshop or Illustrator. The coin designer probably spent more time coding than sketching (like the book Snow Crash).

      Also, it's beautiful. I want one, no, a few million of them.

    3. Re:I don't get it.... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Seriously, he could have saved tons of time just by using a piece of paper, a pencil, and maybe a protractor/soda can to make the circle.

    4. Re:I don't get it.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Libel.

    5. Re:I don't get it.... by Stan+Vassilev · · Score: 1

      I can't see how anybody could create it using Photoshop or Illustrator. The coin designer probably spent more time coding than sketching (like the book Snow Crash).

      A lesson to learn here is that if you can't see how, doesn't mean someone else doesn't as well :)

      Photoshop/Illustrator are fully scriptable environments. By JS/VBScript on Windows, and JS/AppleScript on OSX. Every single option, action, brush stroke, whatever you can think of, is automatable, and Adobe software comes with a little IDE-like tool for writing and testing your Photoshop/Illustrator/Flash IDE/etc. scripts in.

      But the truth is, it's even simpler to achieve the guts of this effect in Photoshop, with no script at all.

      A simple text-on-a-path layer, a little blending mode play, and a levels adjustment layer.

      This is not to put down his effort, if he wants to design with Python, by all means, he should do so.

    6. Re:I don't get it.... by fm6 · · Score: 1

      The big deal is the creative way in which he used the software. RTFA.

    7. Re:I don't get it.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      he said that the designer 'could have', not that he did.

      Weasel-Words 101...

    8. Re:I don't get it.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you RTFA (or more specifically LATFC)? This coin has
      algorithmic outputs both on the front (the Queen made out of
      architect names) and on the back (an outline of Holland made
      out of books). I can't see how anybody could create it using
      Photoshop or Illustrator. The coin designer probably spent
      more time coding than sketching (like the book Snow
      Crash).

      Exactly. He wrote code in Python that was used to generate the artwork
      for the coin based on his design concepts.

  15. That's Impressive by Phat_Tony · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This guy is a master of symbolic design. He's the modern heir of the artistic geniuses who did all the dense symbolic religious iconography in early christian churches and for secret societies. It's perfectly fitting, since architecture, particularly classical architecture, is loaded with design secrets and hidden meanings, and the coin is about architecture. This coin being loaded with dense symbolism and being about architecture, I hope there's something masonic hidden on it somewhere. I assume the masons were active in The Netherlands?

    My question is - did he just use open-source on principle, or did it confer an advantage on doing this project over the commercial alternatives? Or was it harder to do it with the open source software? Clearly it involved a lot of custom scripting. Did he go as far as to look at the source code to accomplish this, or dig into the software in other ways that couldn't be done with closed source? Anybody know?

    --
    Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
    1. Re:That's Impressive by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

      This guy is a master of symbolic design. He's the modern heir of the artistic geniuses who did all the dense symbolic religious iconography in early christian churches and for secret societies. It's perfectly fitting, since architecture, particularly classical architecture, is loaded with design secrets and hidden meanings, and the coin is about architecture. This coin being loaded with dense symbolism and being about architecture, I hope there's something masonic hidden on it somewhere. I assume the masons were active in The Netherlands?

      My question is - did he just use open-source on principle, or did it confer an advantage on doing this project over the commercial alternatives? Or was it harder to do it with the open source software? Clearly it involved a lot of custom scripting. Did he go as far as to look at the source code to accomplish this, or dig into the software in other ways that couldn't be done with closed source? Anybody know?

      I was thinking the same thing about his mastery of visual symbolism. However, in what sense are ancient greek and roman buildings dense with symbolism? Are you talking about the sculpture on them?

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    2. Re:That's Impressive by Phat_Tony · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I'm using the wrong terminology. Not "early" Christian. I guess I just meant "old," as in, for example, Russian Orthodox churches from, I think. about 1400-1800. For example, St. Theodosius Cathedral isn't that old, but it's modeled after, and includes many artifacts from, churches from that time. The religious iconography is so dense you could probably pick any square yard of wall, ceiling, window, or carvings and write a 30-page treatise on the meanings contained within, both hidden and overt, and still not touch on everything. That sort of thing. The Cloisters in Manhattan are full of other old Christian art and artifacts with similarly dense symbolism.

      As far as architecture, I didn't mean the archeological meaning, just the colloquial (or architectural) definition of "classical" architecture as opposed to modern architecture. For example, Ida Noyes Hall at The University of Chicago was designed to be a woman's center, and the architecture reflects that in a hundred subtle ways, from the patterns in the crown molding to the murals on the walls of the theater to the overall floor plan and the look of the building. Huge amounts of thought went into every detail. The architecture of The 1893 Columbian Exposition was like that, too. Everything stood for something; often the same thing stood for many different things, like on the coin.

      --
      Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
    3. Re:That's Impressive by lawpoop · · Score: 1

      This coin being loaded with dense symbolism and being about architecture, I hope there's something masonic hidden on it somewhere. I assume the masons were active in The Netherlands?

      Are they? Are they ever!

      Why, just look at the way the guy is holding his hand in the photo at the bottom of this page! Can you believe it!? It's right out in front of everyone, there on this web page! I would think they would be more subtle about it.

      Photo in question

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    4. Re:That's Impressive by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Informative

      I was thinking the same thing about his mastery of visual symbolism. However, in what sense are ancient greek and roman buildings dense with symbolism? Are you talking about the sculpture on them?

      I took a class on Sacred Architecture, and basically, the Greek buildings are loaded to the hilt with meanings. Well, it was all mathematical, though. You can thank the Greek philosophers for first originating the idea of the Matrix. The reality we see with the senses is a shadow of the real world, which is mathematics.

      For one, they liked to use the golden ratio wherever they could. Here's a page that has an image of the golden ratio in a Greek temple. Second, look closely at the columns. See who they taper on top? That was done on purpose, so that when you're up close, looking up at them, the appear to rise straight up, instead of bending slightly inwards over you, as Manhattan skyscrapers do. The Greeks understood perspective and corrected for it with an optical illusion.

      There are a lot of other things, which I've forgotten from the class, but it's utterly fascinating. If you have a chance to do a little reading, you'll be greatly rewarded! :)

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    5. Re:That's Impressive by bmcage · · Score: 4, Informative
      Dude, the guy wrote an entire python editor, SPE (Stani's Python Editor)! The special forte of it is that it integrates with Blender.

      His editor is really good, but some performance issue on my 64bit. I prefer it over Erik4 otherwise.

      I think you can savely assume that if he is not happy with something, he just changes the source code and recompiles.

    6. Re:That's Impressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, he wrote an entire integrated development environment, which he then used to write the python required in the making of the artwork.

      (I'm assuming he's the Stani of "Stani's Python Editor", partly because his name is Stani and his blog is called "SPE IDE - Stani's Python Editor")

  16. As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...it made me giggle with joy to see the guy mention he won against people using Adobe products. I teach Adobe products to impressionable college students, and when they sign up to take my class and purchase their own copy of Photoshop or Illustrator, boy do they think they have ARRIVED in cool-town. Many of my new students think that once they *understand* how to use Photoshop better than most, they are now a graphic designer, creative person, illustrator, web designer, etc.

    So I started doing an extra credit assignment where I tell them they are not allowed to use Adobe products, and they have to design a postcard. They use any package they want; most use GIMP or Inkscape because they're free. Without fail, they come back and say, "hey, I can't do anything with this. It's not Adobe. It sucks." So I point out to them that their Adobe software skills make them think they're pretty good at design. But what happened to their awesome design skills when they started using another software package? Does the software really suck, or do they just hate it because of its non-Adobeness? I show them nicely-done work by other GIMP or Inkscape users. Blank looks. Lesson ensues.

    Relying on a specific software package is fine. *Depending* on it is risky. And *not being able* to design using anything else because of some marketing-infused mental block just means you're spoiled and/or ignorant. Bravo for the true creativity displayed in the article.

    1. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by LandDolphin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Adobe is a tool. Much like your key board is a tool.

      That test as akin to asking someone to type with a non-QWERTY style keyboard.

      Your test did not challenge their design and creative abilities, it tested their ability to use different tools.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    2. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Without fail, they come back and say, "hey, I can't do anything with this. It's not Adobe. It sucks." So I point out to them that their Adobe software skills make them think they're pretty good at design.

      I have few thoughts after reading your post:

      1) If they think knowing Photoshop makes them good designers, then it means you're a bad teacher. Have you not explained to them typography, use of whitespace, negative space, layout, color harmonies etc.? None of this can be perceived as exclusive to Adobe.

      2) I do use GIMP and Photoshop *together* every day, and I have to say, GIMP does pale as a Photoshop replacement for professionals. It's the fact. I could start listing specific reasons, but that's boring. However GIMP is still useful if you don't put artificial limitations on how and when it's used. Tools don't make the artist, but they certainly do help.

      3) You can draw Mona Lisa in MS Paint. That doesn't mean that not using MS Paint I have "marketing-infused mental block". It just means I have lots of free time and will to show off.

    3. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not a test, it's an extra-credit assignment that is optional. The assignment exposes their response when given a new tool to use. This is valuable because it answers this question: Do they discard the new tool because they've only learned craftmanship with one tool, or do they attempt to use it and seek help where required?

      If a student views himself as a craftsman who uses one tool, he needs to know that he is selling himself short, that is all. Half of the student's grade in these classes is based in the application of design principles independent of any specific specific software package. So for an extra credit assignment, that's more than appropriate.

      Also, If I were teaching a keyboarding class, I'd have no problem exposing my students to Dvorak or Das Keyboard in similar optional, extra credit assignments.

    4. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by houghi · · Score: 1

      That test as akin to asking someone to type with a non-QWERTY style keyboard.

      I do that on a daily basis. My main computer is qwerty and my portable is azerty. At work my main is qwerty and my secondary is azerty.
      Now it is not so bad. I used to have a French azerty keyboard, which is just a bit different then a Belgian one. Also I have worked with a German keyboard, which is different as well.

      And you are right, no matter how many different keyboards I use, Shakespear it ain't (Or Voltair, Goete, ...)

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by LandDolphin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I only meant "test", as in testing their skill. I did not mean to infer that it was an in class test. Sorry for any confusion there.

      I believe there is value in learning to use multiple different tools, no matter what your trade.

      The reason I said something was because you were talking about their design skills. But the extra credit assignment did not tackle the issue of design skills as much as it addressed their ability to use a different tool.

      At the end of the day, I think it was a wonderful extra credit assignment to give them. Something to challenge how they see the tools they use and possibly expand their horizons.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    6. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If they think knowing Photoshop makes them good designers, then it means you're a bad teacher

      Not really, but your comment may indicate that you're a bad reader. I was referring to my "new" students, the ones that come in on the first day with lots of presuppositions.

      GIMP does pale as a Photoshop replacement for professionals

      I don't see where I argue against that in my post. Also, "pales" is one of those words that doesn't exactly help anyone understand your point. More than needing to hear specific reasons, I'd want to know why you would feel the need to list them, considering the fact that you own both.

      You can draw Mona Lisa in MS Paint [youtube.com].

      Are you saying that you can do that? Because for many who can't, this is actually a powerful lesson to learn. Many aspiring designers learn this lesson too late; I know a few who use adobe software not because "it works and I can express myself with it" but because "it makes me look professional in conversation." In fact, I am considering dropping a subcontractor for this reason. He can use the software, but he makes excuses for his lack of design training.

    7. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 1

      Thanks, sorry if I misunderstood you.

    8. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by apathy+maybe · · Score: 1

      What really gets me when using a non US keyboard, sometimes it is just one or two letters or symbols that have been moved. Z and Y being swapped for example. When I switch I keep buggering up...

      Then I use another keyboard and have to hunt for the @ symbol... (or the ~ symbol, which I still haven't found on a UK keyboard).

      I can still type almost as fast, so long as I don't need to hunt and peck for that one bloody key...

      --
      I wank in the shower.
    9. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by Kjella · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Many of my new students think that once they *understand* how to use Photoshop better than most, they are now a graphic designer, creative person, illustrator, web designer, etc. (...) So I point out to them that their Adobe software skills make them think they're pretty good at design. But what happened to their awesome design skills when they started using another software package?

      Eh, one tool or two they can still be damn crappy designers. And a good designer could use a pencil and crayons and be completely computer illiterate. I doubt it shows anything except that without understanding how a tool works, you can't use it well.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    10. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      Exactly, because everyone knows that only when you use GIMP will you become a "graphic designer, creative person, illustrator, web designer, etc".

      Why don't you teach GIMP instead of Photoshop? Oh, that's right - nobody will pay you to teach it.

    11. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Eh, one tool or two they can still be damn crappy designers.

      Actually, I've identified the one-tool-only scenario as a stumblingblock for *my* students. So an extra tool thrown in there does seem to help. Other instructors may see things differently.

      And a good designer could use a pencil and crayons and be completely computer illiterate.

      I don't see where I disagreed with that. But that's at a very high level, and perhaps some of these students will get tired of supporting Adobe, switch to GIMP, or find themselves in some similar situation. I was a design student once and that's how I turned out.

      I doubt it shows anything except that without understanding how a tool works, you can't use it well.

      As I said in another reply to a similar comment, the assignment helps me create situations in which I'm able to teach tenets of graphic design to my students. It works well at that, so I'll keep using it. You can do whatever the heck you want.

    12. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 3, Informative

      only when you use GIMP will you become a "graphic designer, creative person, illustrator, web designer, etc".

      "You seem to be setting up a straw man. Can I help you with that?" -Clippy (because no, I never said what you suggest I did)

      Why don't you teach GIMP instead of Photoshop?

      Most of my students have no context in which to understand the difference between the two. But since you asked, I will be teaching GIMP soon, as the art faculty in my college have demonstrated an interest in helping students grasp the Open Source aesthetic. Also, you may have noticed that I *do* teach GIMP currently, as an optional item.

      Oh, that's right - nobody will pay you to teach it.

      I'm not sure where you heard that. The school has already shown interest in paying me more to develop a curriculum for more advanced students which would heavily involve Open Source software. We also like the idea of establishing a one-of-a-kind creative lab by spending more money on capable hardware installations than on software. You may have seen this happen at schools like MIT. But still, I come to /. to hear the old arguments against Open Source stuff, so...well played, my literal-nicked friend.

    13. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Adobe is a tool. Much like your key board is a tool.

      So in essence, his class is where people go to get used to dealing with complete tools.

    14. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you should have said "Adobe is a tool. Much like yourself."

    15. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by xaxa · · Score: 1

      the ~ symbol, which I still haven't found on a UK keyboard

      Home row, to the left of Enter.

      I don't like being stuck with the US layout, but typically I'm only typing an email or something, so all that matters is that @ and " are switched. And I can't type £.

      Much worse is the French layout, where QW is instead AZ, I can never find M, you have to press shift to get numbers. It's screwed up. You even need shift for . but not for ,
      At least their Enter key is the right shape though :-)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:French_pc_keyboard.svg
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards

    16. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      Your lesson seemed a little muddled. Were you trying to show that tools don't make you creative or were you trying to promote open source tools? I can understand the blank stares.

      As far as the advanced class you may be paid to teach someday, what is the point of it? Is the goal to teach students how to design for themselves or to teach them how to design using the tools they're likely to encounter working for somebody else. Promoting open source may possibly be good in the long run, but is it appropriate to do it on the backs of your students? What would they expect from the class?

    17. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 2, Informative

      is it appropriate to do it on the backs of your students?

      This is the same rhetoric that always gets brought up in these /. discussions. As if an instructor would just cart in Open Source software one day and tell students they are forbidden to use some in-demand commercial package. Yeah, that sounds like a love of freedom to me.~

      I can understand the blank stares.

      Does this type of presuppositional thinking usually help you communicate? It's failing here because you seem to be asking a question I've already answered.

      What would they expect from the class?

      My more advanced students want to know what I do at work, since I teach part-time as a hobby. They want to know how I can keep running my own business in a creative way, and in a dead-end, isolated town. They want to be high-tech so badly that they'll follow me around the school, asking for private lessons, portfolio reviews, or whatever. They've already responded well to the concept of Open Source, mainly because they see pros in advanced fields using it alongside proprietary stuff more and more. And they would *love* to be able to spend money on nice hardware like a Wacom tablet rather than paying for locked up software. Anyway, I seem to sympathize with my students much better than you would even attempt to, so there's no use explaining beyond that. The bottom line is, your straw man ran away; deal with it.

    18. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      Dude that's a most retarded point. That's as if you asked Dennis Ritchie to code a Windows program in C# (assuming he's unfamiliar with that) and asked him where are his awesome programming skills now.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    19. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by Kashgarinn · · Score: 1

      "did not tackle the issue of design skills as much as it addressed their ability to use a different tool."

      - I beg to differ, he asked them to create a design with a different tool, that means removing the software from the design process and letting them really think about what is a part of the design process and what isn't. In the end it will free the students minds away from "I have a hammer, and everything is a nail" - type thinking and increase their real design skills.

      Of course some dumb ones won't get it, but that's all good, we need janitors in this world as well.

    20. Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really, but your comment may indicate that you're a bad reader

      You're the one, who mistook "test" for "classroom graded test". It's clear that your thinking is sloppy.

  17. Re:Fuck Python by John+Sokol · · Score: 1, Insightful

    C#!?!?!

    If you think that's a step up, you really have a lot to learn.

    Why don't you learn a real language. C, C++, Assembly, Java, Perl, forth, pascal, fortan or COBOL even, before criticizing Python.

    But coming back with C# is just beyond lame.

    --
    I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
  18. humor alert: It's a joke, and it's funny! by marhar · · Score: 5, Funny

    For the humor-impaired, it's a pun:

    make (earn) money vs. make (design) money

    referring to the often asked question, how do you make money with free software.

    get it?

  19. Re:Fuck Python by sexconker · · Score: 4, Funny

    The GP makes a post, saying "Fuck Python C# for life!", and you make a post essentially saying "Fuck C#, real languages for life!".

    It's a real battle of wits, isn't it?

    How dare someone prefer one programming language to another!

  20. Re:Fuck Python by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeah, it's just the kind of petty small-mindedness that I would expect from an emacs user.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  21. Re:humor alert: It's a joke, and it's funny! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How to make a joke with free software?

    Seems to be quite difficult on Slashdot. It is like showing a caricature of Mohammed to a muslim. They shurely won't laugh and some of them want to behead you.

  22. Even I could tell you that by speedingant · · Score: 2, Funny

    All you need to do is this! Its simple and GUARANTEED to make YOU money! $$$!

    Pay me $500 for the right to develop my wonderful ideas, and then just recruit TWO MORE PEOPLE to develop it for you, and promise that they get money! GUARANTEED RESULTS!!!! YOU can make FREE MONEY!! FREEEEEEE!!!!!!

  23. Whatever. by sootman · · Score: 4, Informative

    The more talent you have, the less important the tools are.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    1. Re:Whatever. by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Suggests that the less those tools should cost as well.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    2. Re:Whatever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more talent you THINK you have, the more of a tool YOU are.

      fixed

  24. Maybe he'll create for our edification a by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    WikiWiki CoinCoin?

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  25. Re:Fuck Python by sexconker · · Score: 4, Funny

    I hear you.
    Fuck emacs, vi for life!

  26. That's easy.... by Farhood · · Score: 1

    sell it!

  27. commemorative edition by mako1138 · · Score: 1

    I'd to love buy a commemorative edition, but the Royal Dutch Mint appears not to ship outside the EU.

    1. Re:commemorative edition by ChristW · · Score: 1

      But I will...

      Contact me at x at ik.nu with your name and address, I'll let you know costs. I'll contact you about my PayPal account and shipping details.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    2. Re:commemorative edition by mako1138 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the offer. However, after I posted I realized that I have an old friend who's living in the Netherlands (working in architecture, no less). I've asked him to get one for me.

  28. Re:Fuck Python by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Damn, that was funny! Where are my mod points at?

  29. I really like the coin by LordFolken · · Score: 2, Interesting

    and the thoughts that went into it.

    I find the design pretty daring and radical. But still, without knowing anything about art or design, I can tell that a lot of thought went into it.

    That it's done with free software is ++, and just goes to show how effective it can be, when put into capable hands.

    congratulations.

  30. And with the award money... by Edward+Kmett · · Score: 4, Funny

    Asked what he was going to do with the award money, the artist said "I'll finally be able to afford Photoshop!" ;)

    --
    Sanity is a sandbox. I prefer the swings.
  31. Open Source Video Editor by pgn674 · · Score: 1

    On the topic of open source media applications, does an open source video editor exist? Something in the ballpark functionality of Premier, After Affects, or Final Cut? All I know of is Jahshaka, and that hasn't been maintained properly in forever and a day.

  32. Re:humor alert: It's a joke, and it's funny! by wzzzzrd · · Score: 1

    finally. someone. got it.

    --
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
  33. This is a compiled example by Ostracus · · Score: 1

    "Free software released the artist from the constraints of having to fit in with someone else's idea of what software or technology he should be allowed to use, leaving him free to be creative and follow his own unique path."

    Uh huh, and exactly what constraint was he under that a piece of paper and a number 6H pencil wouldn't solve? I know we all like to cheer on free software but in this example his "unique path" was constrained only by himself.

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
    1. Re:This is a compiled example by femto · · Score: 2, Informative

      The same could be said of the designers of the A380 jumbo jet. They could have used a piece of paper and a 6H pencil but they they would have come up against the constraint that it is physically impossible to do the required calculations in a reasonable time. It's why people use automated tools. While not in the same league as an A380, the coin still embodies calculations which are involved enough that they could not be done manually. For example, the calculations involved in rendering the illustration using a variable width font on a curved path. Sure he could have licked his finger, held it up in the wind and guessed at a correct rendering, but he would not have achieved the same effect as he did with the tools he used.

  34. Re:Fuck Python by Stauken · · Score: 1

    C#!?!?!

    If you think that's a step up, you really have a lot to learn.

    Why don't you learn a real language. C, C++, Assembly, Java, Perl, forth, pascal, fortan or COBOL even, before criticizing Python.

    But coming back with C# is just beyond lame.

    Really? Why not just include Actionscript on that list too. You know, Java and C# are nearly interchangeable. Why don't YOU learn what real languages are, and Pascal? Come on I figured out pascal when I was 12, I was still struggling with C/C++ At the time. It's not hard. Jesus christ almighty, man.

  35. For bunnies sakes. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 2, Insightful

    He won a design contest, the logical conclusion? He can't design.

    Only in Slashdot ...

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:For bunnies sakes. by shmlco · · Score: 1

      I'm sure George Bush and MS Windows have won a award or two in their time. Still doesn't mean either one is any good.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  36. And?? by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's the significance of this story supposed to be? People have been designing things without proprietary software for centuries. Ever heard of pencil and paper? I don't see people bragging about using those tools... so what's the big deal if somebody uses Free software to do the same thing?

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
    1. Re:And?? by rohan972 · · Score: 2, Informative

      1) Its a joke. You know "How to make money with OSS ..."
      2) The oft stated "Linux is no good for graphic designers because it doesn't have photoshop" now has a response. Not that I see any photoshop users switching because of this, but serious professional graphics work has now been done on linux.

      --
      http://marriedmansexlife.com/
  37. How is this good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So lets get this straight. Someone did something using free software. YAY. But had to do it with custom software using several libraries and then three more external programs?

    This is far from news worthy. In fact this is worthy of sweeping under the rug before someone realises how hard this was to do with OSS, and how the creator had way too much spare time on his hands.

  38. But is it art by westlake · · Score: 1
    The biggest part consists of custom software in Python, of course within the SPE editor. For the visual power I used PIL and pyCairo. From time to time also Gimp, Inkscape and Phatch helped quite a bit.
    .

    To my eyes, at least, the coin looks like a technical exercise in mechanical drawing and perspective.

    Ingenious, perhaps, but not necessarily emotionally satisfying:

    benedick

    1. Re:But is it art by Curmudgeonlyoldbloke · · Score: 1

      I bet Beatrix is looking in the mirror and saying "is my nose really that big?"

  39. Re:Fuck Python by hjf · · Score: 1

    Come on I figured out pascal when I was 12, I was still struggling with C/C++ At the time.

    So the fact that a language is "hard" to figure out, means it's better?

  40. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by John+Sokol · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am a VI user not an Emacs user.
    Why? Because emacs often requires installation, where VI is by default on almost every Linux and Unix system, it's also an extended version of "ed" that is a very useful tool.

    Anyhow it's not small mindedness, because C# is closed and proprietary it very limited in it use.

    For example you will not see developers porting the language to new systems. Only Microsoft can do that!
    Hence it's not a real language in that respect.

    How about project usage? Can you write an OS with it. Or program set top boxes or other embedded applications?

    real languages can go anywhere. it's not some petty personal bias. It's a real fact, C, C++, Forth, Java can be counted on as running on almost even known CPU and hardware device ever developed.

    C and Forth are almost university the first languages to run on any CPU!!!

    Where C and Forth goes, Python, perl, php, java, pascal and many other languages are easy to port over on top of the C compiler. Except C#, J++ and other proprietary solutions.

    Try that with C#. Oh you don't have the language source code... Oooh too bad. You don't have source for all of your libraries or even a clean spec on how things are supposed to work. Oh well call m$ and see if they can help.

    vi for life!
    see my site http://www.churchofbsd.org/

    --
    I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
  41. Re:Fuck Python by John+Sokol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Java and C# are nearly interchangeable
    yes I know.

    So then why bother with something closed source?

    > Actionscript
    This is it's own beast, I'd have the same gripes with flash, except it's getting much more open, and they have done an excellent job for what it is, but it's very limited in it's use again and so it's not a "real language" by my definition.

    I am sure there is some compsci student out there that can come up with a better term for it, but it's a Niche Language and as such has limited use.

    --
    I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
  42. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by martinw89 · · Score: 3, Funny

    You just got whoooosh'd.

  43. Re:Fuck Python by Tordek · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, Malbolge is the best language ever!

    --
    Tordek, Dwarven Warrior - Juegos de Rol en Argentina
  44. Re:Fuck Python by Draek · · Score: 1

    So then why bother with something closed source?

    a) Because it's better. Even though VS sucks donkey balls compared to Eclipse, and I'd rather program with 'cat' commands than ever use Monodevelop again, C# is the superior language, IMNSHO. And b) because it's not closed-source. The .NET Framework seems to be a patent minefield, but if you don't live in a country with retarded patent laws, Mono is an excellent way to develop applications in C#, and comes with full source-code.

    --
    No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
  45. Re:Fuck Python by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 2, Informative

    Malbolge is a public domain esoteric programming language invented by Ben Olmstead in 1998, named after the eighth circle of hell in Dante's Inferno, the Malebolge.

    --
    She made the willows dance
  46. Re:Fuck Python by John+Sokol · · Score: 1

    Why bother even playing with other people screwy stuff.

    I program C, C++. It works everywhere! Does everything almost. the few places it's can't go is downloadable browser code. So I do Java - javascript for that. Active X has been a nightmare.

    I have nothing against python, it seems to server it's users well, and it finding it's way in to many embedded applications, as well as the enterprise.

    So far I have learned and used over 100+ languages, many are now dead or might as well be.
    Things that I loved dearly like Turbo Pascal or hated ever moment of like Pick Basic or foxbase.

    After some time you start to realize the different between real things with substance and shiny new objects that are being shoved down your throat.

    C# being in the latter category.

    --
    I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
  47. Back side of the coin by icepick72 · · Score: 1

    ...looks like the Wheel of Fortune.

  48. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by hclewk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, basically, shovels are better than back hoes because with a shovel you can make both small and big holes, but with back-hoes, you can only make big holes. However, what you aren't taking into account is that while backhoes can't make small holes, they are way more efficient at making big ones.

    And just for the record, a "small hole" is a low-level project, such as an operating system, and a "big hole" is a higher-level system, like a software program.

    I'm not saying that C# is better than C, just that they have different purposes and are therefore better at different things.

  49. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

    So, I saw your site, and see where you have a quote from Ken Thompson. Only, you attribute to him the authorship of C, when everyone knows C was created by Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson invented UNIX.

    correct facts for life!

  50. Fuck this thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I am a VI user not an Emacs user. Why? Because emacs often requires installation, where VI is by default on almost every Linux and Unix system

    How does the vi get onto the unix and linux systems? Oh it gets installed. Just like emacs. Not using emacs because it's not installed by default is a pretty silly reason. Unless you just stick to whatever software comes with the machine out of the box, you have to install something. So you may as well install emacs. M-x-install-emacs

    1. Re:Fuck this thread by bob.appleyard · · Score: 1

      Oh, so I just log onto the Sun station, owned by some company in Germany, that's hosting my website, install Emacs, and I'm away. Yeah, really see that working.

      --
      How dare you be so modest!! You conceited bastard!!
    2. Re:Fuck this thread by Rennt · · Score: 1

      I've never weighed in on the whole vi/emacs war before, so this is a bit of a special moment for me - thanks for the opportunity! :)

      Anywho, it may be trivially easy to install emacs on any system you have admin privileges to, but vi comes installed by default on practically every OS known to man.

      If you are a coder, then great, you can afford to customize your environment to suit your particular quirks. If you are a sysadmin you need to be able to log on to any given system and edit files without installing additional software. In other words you better know vi. Its like, you know, a standard or something.

  51. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by Zhila+the+Great+Z · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not sure how serious you were, but I think I can counter.

    First, you say that C# is a closed and proprietary language. You also say there is no spec for the C# language. While Microsoft's C# compiler itself may be closed source and proprietary software, it is an open standard per ECMA. You also state that developers won't be porting the language to new systems, yet I can count at least two compilers (both open source) available for non Microsoft systems.

    You then ask if it can be used to create an operating system, if it can program set top boxes, or be used in embedded systems. Well, yes (Singularity), eventually (it has been noted that one use of Singularity would be set top boxes) and yes (.NET Compact Framework or Embedded Linux with Mono).

    You may state these solutions are inefficient or inadequate, and I won't argue against that. However, to say they don't exist at all is not true.

  52. Re:Fuck Python by Draek · · Score: 1

    Why bother even playing with other people screwy stuff.

    Because it's not. If you can't see that, your loss.

    I program C, C++. It works everywhere! Does everything almost. the few places it's can't go is downloadable browser code.

    Yeah, but the fact that it *can* do almost everywhere doesn't mean it should. Writing GUI apps in C in particular is a PITA, and C++ is still the ugliest, kludgiest language I've ever used, *far* worse than Perl. So, for GUI stuff, I use C# or Python and so far so good.

    After some time you start to realize the different between real things with substance and shiny new objects that are being shoved down your throat.

    C# being in the latter category.

    Well, to you, to me it's one of the most enjoyable languages I've ever used, one that manages to extend it's "parent" language (Java, in this case) in ways that are actually useful to me and not just random cruft, as with poor C's bastard children. But alas, there's still people that enjoy C++ and Obj-C, and I can understand and accept that, even if I don't share the sentiment.

    --
    No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
  53. Uhm... Mono? by fluffynuts · · Score: 1

    I think there are a gaggle of devs on the Mono project who would have to disagree with your sweeping statements about the non-portability of C#. Good on ya, Monodevs (:

  54. In other news ... by daveime · · Score: 1

    NASA design Apollo space project on the back of OSS paper napkins using OSS pencils.

    Hooray, isn't OSS just the pants !

    This is not news, this is an OSS wankfest.

    1. Re:In other news ... by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      crap, a bit too late, but we should tag this fosswankfest. Describes my initial thoughts perfectly.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
  55. but it's butt-ugly by Ignis+Flatus · · Score: 1

    is that a metaphor for free software, also?

    i mean, don't get me wrong, i'm writing this on an Ubuntu box loaded with free software, some of which i even use. but free software in general can be unrefined and unapproachable. and that's exactly how i see this coin. even the denomination is not prominent. it seems to be designed to appeal to nerds (art or otherwise), and not the actual people that need to use it.

  56. GIMP by Max_W · · Score: 1, Flamebait
    I do not know about all mentioned software, but GIMP is definitely the best image editing software. I use GIMP daily. Even thought I have got from the company other expensive soft, but GIMP is ( www.gimp.org ) just high above anything else.

    I use GIMP on Windows, both XP and Vista.

    From GIMP images do not come out "dull", as from other popular image editing software.

    And yes, I like this 5 euro coin.

  57. Shameless plug by Grismar · · Score: 1

    ".. Gimp, Inkscape and Phatch" hmm, Phatch? Never heard of that one, but since it's being mentioned in one breath with those two awesome products... Lands me on a page of a utility cobbled together by the winner of the prize himself, Stani. Offering downloads for 3 releases of Ubuntu and nothing more, unless you count the oodles of Google ads.

    Guess all he really needed was Python, PIL, pyCairo, GIMP and Inkscape and then some way to do a little batch processing. Which is not to say that I don't like the fact that a coder won a design contest by coding his own tools that were perfect for the job...

  58. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by amorsen · · Score: 4, Funny

    it's also an extended version of "ed" that is a very useful tool.

    Yesterday my Fedora 9 updater told me that I had a security update.

    For ed.

    --
    Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
  59. he is also a notable Free software author by dominux · · Score: 1

    He is Stani who wrote SPE, Stani's Python Editor. A really good IDE for Python. sudo apt-get install spe and have a look at it.

  60. For obvious reasons by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

    I would have loved to release the coin under the GPL, which could maybe solve the financial crisis. However for obvious reasons I was not allowed to do that.

    What are the obvious reasons ? The coin will circulate, will be displayed in many website, its creation is sponsored by the state and is normally in the public domain. What prevents you from GPLing the files used for its creation ?

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    1. Re:For obvious reasons by akadruid · · Score: 1

      I assume that it's a requirement that the coin be horribly hard to duplicate exactly. The source would be a real help with such forgery. That said, forging even the most complicated coins to a 'passable' standard does not seem to be too hard.

      --
      "Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything." (attrib. Joseph Stalin)
  61. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by FreeFull · · Score: 0

    This reminds me how NeXTStep programs were usually written in C#...

    --
    No ascii art.
  62. He's actually not Dutch but Belgian by thisfred · · Score: 1

    The coin is a Dutch euro, but Stani himself is Belgian, even though he currently lives in the Netherlands.

    --
    "I Just Want You To Hurt Like I Do" - Randy Newman
  63. Re:Fuck Python by m50d · · Score: 1
    So then why bother with something closed source?

    Because in practice, C# is more portable - Java may be theoretically open-source, but pick a random Java program and tell me it works in something other than Sun's own, non-portable JVM (I was briefly involved with the effort to port Java to BeOS. Last I heard they were stuck working on version 1.3). Wheras mono works, to the extent that if you pick a random C# application off the internet, it will probably work in mono.

    Oh, and because Java sucks.

    --
    I am trolling
  64. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by Fred_A · · Score: 1

    sed users don't get "whooshed".

    ?

    --

    May contain traces of nut.
    Made from the freshest electrons.
  65. Stani's talk at python user group meeting by Reinout · · Score: 2, Informative

    Stani explained the way he made the coin at a Dutch python user group meeting in Amsterdam. Everyone attending was really enthousiastic about it. http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/archive/2008/09/12/python-calculated-coin

    Good to see that he's written an article himself with the full explanation and graphs! Nicely done.

    --
    Reinout van Rees
  66. Speaking of straw men by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

    "As if an instructor would just cart in Open Source software one day and tell students they are forbidden to use some in-demand commercial package."

    That's, of course, not what I said.

  67. One snag by jon3k · · Score: 1

    Free as in beer not speech. Just to clarify

  68. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by sorak · · Score: 1

    it's also an extended version of "ed" that is a very useful tool.

    Yesterday my Fedora 9 updater told me that I had a security update.

    For ed.

    So Fedora informed you that you have erectile dysfunction and it's making you insecure...And people complain about Microsoft being "Big Brother".

  69. Re:Fuck Python by AftanGustur · · Score: 1

    I hear you. Fuck emacs, vi for life!

    'vi' is actually just a bunch of additional routines build on top of 'ed' (a editor for "real" men !)

    --
    echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
  70. Re:Fuck Python by AftanGustur · · Score: 1

    That should have been 'ex' see here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_(text_editor)

    --
    echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
  71. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by euxneks · · Score: 1

    And just for the record, a "small hole" is a low-level project, such as an operating system

    I don't think any operating system qualifies as a "small hole".

    --
    in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
  72. Re:Fuck Python by John+Sokol · · Score: 1

    Well I just finished a project with the Perc JVM on arm.

    I had no problems taking stuff developed on suns JVM on Windows PC's and running then on the arm. Trivial really.

    The arm platform is something we designed from scratch based on Linux. Yea I know people could do the same in Wince, but I don't think the C# would port over as easy.

    I have been tiring to work with Microsoft tools since 1985. With the exception of there original gwbasic which I love and the original DOS debug, Most of what they have written since has been a nightmare, so much so I help port a version of BSD Unix to the PC! I work there there C compiler from before the bought it, when it was Lattic C. I have programming in window 3.0, 3.1 windows for work groups, 98, 2K, and XP.
    Visual Studio 6 being the best they ever had it at.
      It all sucks when compared with simple plain vanilla GCC and Linux/BSD Unix.

    Windows always take 10x longer to develop code for, it's a nightmare. I don't know C# I am told it's just like Java, so then why not just use Java? Microsoft started with using Java and make up C# just to fuck with Sun and Netscape/Mozilla.

    I have no time for their crap. So many times have I followed there technology strategy down a dead end, I spend countless hours learning the MCI ,VFW, then Direct Show, the DDK, COM, ALT. Seems like every 6 months there is yet another API, but they never expose the "system call's" the low level function so we can build our own high level calls. I don't need them to make me a .net HttpWebRequest method! I can do this just fine with raw TCP/IP.
    As a matter of fact it's faster to write one then figure out there retarded docs on how to use there high level methods anyhow.

    Each API is ambiguous, lacking key functionality. I do Video and in the end I find it next to impossible to get some of what I want to do accomplished without writing a driver!

      In Unix there was nothing new I needed to learn, fopen("/dev/vga") fopen("/dev/audio") presto I have video output access.

    --
    I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
  73. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by DaVince21 · · Score: 1

    "For example you will not see developers porting the language to new systems. Only Microsoft can do that!"

    Sorry, but have you never in your life heard of Mono? I have successfully written and compiled a Linux C# application with Mono. It's a workable language, though it really depends on tastes and purposes, NOT "how portable it is", because it IS if you write your application just right.

    --
    I am not devoid of humor.
  74. Re:Fuck Python by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

    Fuck all of you, acme rules. *ducks*

    --
    I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  75. Re:Fuck Python by m50d · · Score: 1
    I had no problems taking stuff developed on suns JVM on Windows PC's and running then on the arm. Trivial really.

    Sure, it's fine as long as you're using a platform Sun supports. But if you want to step outside that, you're even more fucked than you are with C#.

    The arm platform is something we designed from scratch based on Linux. Yea I know people could do the same in Wince, but I don't think the C# would port over as easy.

    Actually, MS releases a version of the .net framework for windows CE; it would be exactly the same experience, just as trivial.

    Windows always take 10x longer to develop code for, it's a nightmare. I don't know C# I am told it's just like Java, so then why not just use Java? Microsoft started with using Java and make up C# just to fuck with Sun and Netscape/Mozilla.

    C# is what Java would have been if it had been designed with the benefit of five years' hindsight. It's not revolutionary, but that's a good thing - it's an incremental, evolutionary improvement of Java, smoothed out, with the most irritating flaws gone. While python remains my personal favourite language, C# is honestly a very nice language to write in.

    I have no time for their crap. So many times have I followed there technology strategy down a dead end, I spend countless hours learning the MCI ,VFW, then Direct Show, the DDK, COM, ALT.

    I can understand your reluctance to trust MS again, but frankly you shouldn't knock it until you've tried it. C# is quite possibly the best thing they have ever made. Try developing with it under Mono if you like.

    In Unix there was nothing new I needed to learn, fopen("/dev/vga") fopen("/dev/audio") presto I have video output access.

    Well yes, but you can't exactly do that in Java, can you? And there are good reasons why people have moved to these higher-level APIs.

    --
    I am trolling
  76. Re:Fuck Python by macsuibhne · · Score: 1

    You misspelled 'ex'. The 'ed and 'ex' editors are not command compatible. Ed famously prints a '?' if it doesn't understand what you type. Ex is effectively the vi ':' command line. They're both still there on Linux. Try them.

    Tony.

    sweeney@golem:~$ ed xxx
    0
    a
    asdf
    .
    .
    asdf
    a
    hjkl
    .
    .
    hjkl
    -
    asdf
    1,$p
    asdf
    hjkl
    w
    10
    q
    sweeney@golem:~$ cat xxx
    asdf
    hjkl
    sweeney@golem:~$

    (Holy crap! I still vaguely remember how to work ed).

    --
    -- "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" -- Juvenal
  77. Re:I already know the ways by CovenantMG · · Score: 1

    You may not like my comment about how to make money with free software... but its not offtopic. I made the post a bit tongue in cheek but the reality is..those have been the primary ways (not winning contests) of making money on free software. In short its monetized by regular businesses or those who make money prostelitizing it.

  78. Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's also an extended version of "ed" that is a very useful tool.

    Yesterday my Fedora 9 updater told me that I had a security update.

    For ed.

    Did the update prompt look something like this:

    ?

  79. Re:Fuck Python by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dunno where I saw it but it had to be here or TDWTF:

    Q: Why didn't Olmstead pick the 9th circle?
    A: Perl was already invented.

    Feel free to substitute whatever in place of Perl.