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Australian Censorship Bypassed Before Live Trials

newt writes "The Australian Government is planning to conduct live trials of as-yet-unspecified censorship technology. But as every geek already knows, these systems can't possibly work in the presence of VPNs and proxy servers. PC Authority clues the punters in." Maybe the ISPs secretly like encouraging SSH tunneling — and making everyone pay for the extra bandwidth used. Not really; Australia's major ISPs, as mentioned a few days ago, think it's a bad idea.

184 comments

  1. Uh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ssh typically does compression and then encryption, so we might very well end up with a net savings in bandwidth.

    1. Re:Uh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Except I would suspect most Australians would be vising sites located in their own country. So they would have to tunnel out, and then request the data from their own country. That's basically sending the data twice over at least one tube.

    2. Re:Uh. by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...Until the Aussie government considers SSH, VPN's, and anonymizing proxies to be "hacking"(illegally circumventing a la DMCA) and takes steps to outlaw them.

    3. Re:Uh. by Reece400 · · Score: 1

      There's always using dial-up to connect to another country. Slow, but I know downloaded tonnes with dial up when I was kid because there was no other way... Didn't stop me one bit.

      Unless of course they decide international calls are also "hacking"..

    4. Re:Uh. by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On the other hand SSH tunnels aren't amenable to caching. And no matter what, you're adding another hop.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:Uh. by heretic108 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm an Australian myself, and it saddens me to say that you might have a point there. Australia's legendary convict streak has always been counterbalanced by a lurking streak of repressive authoritarianism of a kind which, if permitted to fully express itself, would make the UK's big brother state look tame.

      --
      -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
    6. Re:Uh. by mlwmohawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      .Until the Aussie government considers SSH, VPN's, and anonymizing proxies to be "hacking"(illegally circumventing a la DMCA) and takes steps to outlaw them.

      While one can never account for the cluelessness and stupidity of so called "conservative" government, tools like SSH and general encryption are foundations of a lot of necessary infrastructure.

    7. Re:Uh. by drsparkly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How many businesses rely on VPNs to connect their remote offices? How many sysadmins use SSH to remotely connect to their unix systems? If the government moved to outlaw VPNs and SSH, there is no point having an internet any more. If the government did this there would be a major backlash from the business community. It would be political suicide, if the current plan isn't already.

      My internet connection is paid for by my current employer so I can (a) telecommute (VPN) (b) remote administer systems in case of problems (VPN, SSH). Its a home internet plan, so they could not simply limit this block to home internet users.

      I repeat my point... if the Aussie government starts blocking every protocol that can be used to bypass their stupid filter, there is no point having an internet. Australia will be back to the stone age.

    8. Re:Uh. by drsparkly · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I currently work for an unamed large geotechnical company with HQ in Holland. Their bonehead corporate ICT network routes all traffic through a global gateway in either Holland or the US. I work in Perth, Australia. To access a server on the floor below, the packets are going 1/2 way around the world and back. And its fscking slow.

      Thank god for our hosting networks ;)

    9. Re:Uh. by jandrese · · Score: 1
      It only compresses if you ask it to, and frankly, the results are usually less than impressive. From the manpage:

      -C Requests compression of all data (including stdin, stdout, stderr, and data for forwarded X11 and TCP connections). The compression algorithm is the same used by gzip(1), and the ``level'' can be controlled by the CompressionLevel option for protocol version 1. Compression is desirable on modem lines and other slow connections, but will only slow down things on fast networks. The default value can be set on a host-by-host basis in the configuration files; see the Compression option.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    10. Re:Uh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Botany Bay? Botany Bay?! Oh no! We have to get out of here now. Damn!

    11. Re:Uh. by stephanruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I currently work for an unamed large geotechnical company with HQ in Holland. Their bonehead corporate ICT network routes all traffic through a global gateway in either Holland or the US. I work in Perth, Australia. To access a server on the floor below, the packets are going 1/2 way around the world and back. And its fscking slow. Thank god for our hosting networks ;)

      I was going to say. It's nothing that a diamond head cement drill wouldn't solve. I'm just sorry you went for the easy invisible solution instead.

      Nothing says "Fuck you HQ" like a bunch of cat wires dangling randomly from the ceiling.

    12. Re:Uh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please keep in mind that only parts of Australia (and they consider themselves the most important parts) were started up as convict settlements.
      Melbourne, Adelaide and Brisbane were established by free men although Melbourne and Brisbane had convicts sent from Sydney once they were viable.
      Most of the convicts were not career criminals, simply people who had fallen foul of the harsh laws of the time.

    13. Re:Uh. by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      However, most Australians slowly build up a tolerance to Iocaine powder prior to discussing open network initiatives with members of the Rudd government.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    14. Re:Uh. by Starayo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Heh, the only sites located in Australia I visit are the occasional TV network / job site / council site. Everything else, including a large amount of sites operated by Australians, are located outside the US, because:

      a) You need a registered business to have a .com.au address
      b) Hosting within Australia costs a ridiculous amount of money, like anything to do with the internet in Australia

      Now of course this is only speaking for myself, but the average internet user I know doesn't use many Australian sites at all, rather they use their facebook / myspace / other crappy social networking site, youtube, stuff like that.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    15. Re:Uh. by Gideon+Fubar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're probably correct, but only because of local mirroring. Anecdotally, most Australians don't even consider 'Australia' when using the internet, instead they consider it a global resource.

      --
      http://www.xkcd.com/354/
    16. Re:Uh. by AmonTheMetalhead · · Score: 1, Funny

      Khaaaaaan!!!

    17. Re:Uh. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Most likely, any ban on VPN and friends wouldn't be blanket, that would be suicide, as you note. It would, instead, be a clumsy and poorly worded attempt to distinguish between "business" VPNs(++Good) and "consumer" VPNs(++ungood). It would of course be a failure, and pretty much end up failing to catch most relevant cases, while criminalizing every hobbyist who uses a Free SSH implementation.

    18. Re:Uh. by limaxray · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They could get around that by only outlawing encryption systems that didn't have a government approved back door. Then the companies could be safe from the hackers while the government kept the population safe from the child porn. It wouldn't be the first country to pass such requirements...

    19. Re:Uh. by Architect_sasyr · · Score: 1

      Yeah they won't ever get rid of SSH I think, they'll just make us all use SSLv2 and SSHv1 :(

      --
      Me failed English...
      FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
    20. Re:Uh. by Starayo · · Score: 1

      My many times great uncle was a horse thief. Horses have never liked me very much. XD

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    21. Re:Uh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Rudd government isn't conservative, it's the more liberal of the two parties (the majority conservative party is called the "Liberal" party, I know, confusing isn't it?). The reason this is being pushed is in exchange for the support of an absolutely bat-shit insane third party, the "Family First" party (i.e. astonishingly divorced-from-reality bible-thumping conservatives).

    22. Re:Uh. by mcbridematt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most internet traffic in Australia is to the US. AFAIK the amount of local traffic is 30% at best. This would be including Akamai and other CDN's. (BTW One ISP recently cited BitTorrent as being 60% of traffic carried) Our bandwidth caps are dictated by the price of transit to the US, which will fall once competition heats up next year.

    23. Re:Uh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you were a kid the average web page was 200kb, porn was a 30kb jpg file and there was no such thing as movie downloads. Try watching YouTube or downloading the latest cracked WaReZ game with a modem.

    24. Re:Uh. by Stickiefinger · · Score: 0

      Yes it is although it is more liberal of the 2 parties it is still conservative otherwise it would have overturned all of work-choices which it has not.

    25. Re:Uh. by jroysdon · · Score: 1

      There is nothing your ISP can do about SSH over https ports. It is encrypted (as https always is) and fools every single proxy I have ever used (hundreds of customers). You can't just blanket block https.

    26. Re:Uh. by 6th+time+lucky · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Discussing open network initiatives with members of '%' government? Inconceivable!

    27. Re:Uh. by tabrisnet · · Score: 3, Informative

      On any kind of WAN link, it's a savings. It only costs you something on a 100mbit LAN link. The basic problem is that if you hit the CPU limit before you hit the bandwidth limit, compression (or encryption) will suck. But if you can hit the bandwidth limit first, then you will get a reasonable savings.

      I've so far found that on a reasonably modern CPU, you need to be pushing in excess of a 10mbit ethernet, but less than a 100mbit ethernet, for it to hit the CPU limit first.

      Reasonably modern CPU being defined as, approximately, a 1GHz Athlon or higher. My Thinkpad R51 (1.6GHz Pentium-M) caps out at ~2Mbyte/sec if compression or aes128-cbc is used (arcfour & no compression lets it hit 4-6Mbyte/sec [very very slow hard-drive]).

      On a much more modern system, with compression disabled and arcfour encryption (and the MAC cranked down to the hmac-md5), I cap at approximately 40Mbyte/sec.

    28. Re:Uh. by knutkracker · · Score: 2, Funny

      I currently work for an unamed large geotechnical company

      Given that they can't even think of a name yet, their boneheadedness with the network doesn't surprise me.

    29. Re:Uh. by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's it. What I find quite amusing is that when something goes wrong, I've found that people who regret our lack of convict frontier mentality start complaining... to the authorities.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    30. Re:Uh. by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>Try watching YouTube or downloading the latest cracked WaReZ game with a modem.

      I've done both, since I travel and there's often nothing but a phoneline provided by the hotel. So I plugin my laptop and dialup at 50kbit/s. You can watch youtube.com by pressing "pause" and waiting for the buffer to fill, and then pressing play when it's about half full.

      You can download games or movies via bittorrent. I download three or four episodes of Stargate during the day when I'm at work, or at night when sleeping. And the porn images, although slow, are not that bad. My Netscape ISP compresses images on the fly, so it can shrink them to half normal size w/ no noticeable loss, or 5% normal size if you're in a hurry. ;-)

      There's always using dial-up to connect to another country. Slow...

      ...but very workable.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    31. Re:Uh. by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      This is being introduced by the Labor government, they are Australia's socialists, not conservatives.

      I'm no fan of our "conservative" parties either, but how on earth do the conservatives keep copping the blame for the actions of the lefties?

    32. Re:Uh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so, as long as the porno moves, it's ok?

    33. Re:Uh. by Reece400 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I'm not that old.. I was using a 36k modem to download some pretty big files only around 5-6 years ago, used bittorrent with it even. So long as you use a program that can resume downloads if the connection fails your set. (Napster was AWFUL, you'd download 3/4 of a song, and then everyone with it would be offline or stop sharing it!) Worst case just leave it running over night, no one wants calls at that hour anyways :)

    34. Re:Uh. by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>So long as you use a program that can resume downloads if the connection fails your set.

      Yep. About two years ago I was stuck in a hotel for two months, and with nothing but a 24k connection (lots of noise). I was still able to download whole seasons of Doctor Who, SG1, and Battlestar Galactica over that line. Bittorent would just slowly but steadily download piece-by-piece.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    35. Re:Uh. by Pope+Raymond+Lama · · Score: 1

      "will be"??

      --
      -><- no .sig is good sig.
    36. Re:Uh. by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Why do we even bother classifying domain names anymore? Google has replaced DNS in the hearts and minds of the user.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    37. Re:Uh. by sjames · · Score: 1

      You can always run squid between the browser and the ssh tunnel. The extra hop is unavoidable.

    38. Re:Uh. by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      I tunnelled all my traffic when I was on Comcast for privacy to a point I trust. I found my browsing significantly faster than that of my parents forwarded. Not to mention my savings with the rate limit:-)

      Of course I was forwarding somewhere with a nearly unlimited pipe so that might have something to do with it.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
  2. The old saying still holds by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A wise man once said: "The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

    (And if you don't know who, turn in your Slashdot account by tomorrow morning.)
    =Smidge=

    1. Re:The old saying still holds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In censored Australia, internet routes around YOU!

    2. Re:The old saying still holds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oooooo...I know, I know. It was Al Gore, right?

    3. Re:The old saying still holds by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A wise man once said: "The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

      In fact, the original quote was that "Usenet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it," although the saying is widely misquoted.

      (Note how incredibly useful the uncensored usenet has become.)

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    4. Re:The old saying still holds by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > (And if you don't know who, turn in your Slashdot account by tomorrow morning.)

      We're geeks, not historians... :-)

      http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Gilmore

    5. Re:The old saying still holds by Khemisty · · Score: 1

      Who's John Gilmore and what has he ever done for defending freedom in the digital world?

    6. Re:The old saying still holds by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      A wise man once said: "The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

      Then it seems that this wise man did not forsee Cogent blackholing Sprint's traffic.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    7. Re:The old saying still holds by BrennanM3 · · Score: 0

      I know this one, this is the same guy who also said it's like a series of tubes and not a dump truck.

    8. Re:The old saying still holds by jandrese · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To be fair, the Usenet was killed by the old truth that if you give the people a cheap broadcast mechanism, the first thing they'll do is try to put advertisements on it.

      It has been said that prostitution is the oldest profession, but before they could be prostitutes they had to advertise their services.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    9. Re:The old saying still holds by Speare · · Score: 4, Funny

      (And if you don't know who, turn in your Slashdot account by tomorrow morning.)

      Translation:

      (And if you don't know who, I'm too lazy to google it for you as it has slipped my mind also.)

      --
      [ .sig file not found ]
    10. Re:The old saying still holds by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Funny

      A wise man once said: "The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

      Routing around Australia as a whole is probably not the intended nor desired outcome. The rest of the Internet will be fine. Just nothing in or out of Oz.

    11. Re:The old saying still holds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Technically the quote is "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." In the context used, "the Net" was intended to refer to USENET. You had the right meaning, just the wrong words.

    12. Re:The old saying still holds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Censorship resistant network like [freenetproject.org] seems to be the way to go for Aussies.

    13. Re:The old saying still holds by lartful_dodger · · Score: 1

      That makes pimping the oldest profession, doesn't it?

      --
      The face of 'evil' is always the face of total need
    14. Re:The old saying still holds by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

      Yeah... a wise old man that knows nothing about networks or the way that the Internet works.

      Tell that to the Chinese.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  3. Positive aspect by khellendros1984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can see a positive possibility here. Find a work-around, and when you're caught visiting "illegal sites", claim that you thought your actions were legal since there's a "foolproof" filtering system that should've properly protected you.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    1. Re:Positive aspect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You darn well know there'll be a "NO CIRCUMVENTION" clause in there somewhere. Ipso facto; you're guilty.

  4. Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypass it, 95% of the population won't be able to.

    The US voted out the religious right yesterday. Pitty our religious right goverment isn't due for re-election for another couple of years...

  5. China! by vik · · Score: 4, Funny

    Won't it be embarrassing when people start routing their traffic through China to get around American and Australian internet legislation?

    Vik :v)

    1. Re:China! by ink · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What American legislation? It seems that France, China, Australia, and the UK are the ones spearheading big-brother Internet censorship.

      --
      The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
  6. Advantages to Censorship by Sasayaki · · Score: 4, Funny

    As an Australian who fervently opposes Chairman Rudd's censorship bill...

    There is one advantage I can see to all of this. Big Brother will block anything illegal and offensive to me, right? So I can download absolutely anything I DO find since it MUST be legal. After all, the censorship is perfect!

    Pirate bay here I come!

    --
    Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
    1. Re:Advantages to Censorship by renegadesx · · Score: 2, Funny

      As an Australian who fervently opposes Fuer Rudd's censorship bill...

      There, fixed that for you ;)

      --
      Make SELinux enforcing again!
    2. Re:Advantages to Censorship by syousef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As an Australian who fervently opposes Chairman Rudd's censorship bill...

      I'm Australian too and I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Rudd. I find the man to be less than genuine, and it doesn't stop with his pandering to China or fearlessly taking on a dictatorial line. He seems to remind me of that every time he's in the news. Like yesterday saying that Obama had fulfilled Martin Luther King's dream. Tell that to almost all the southern states - they all voted for McCain. I can't even think how I'd be feeling if I were a US secret service officer tasked with protecting the president (or family of one of these guys). How much did their life insurance just go up? That is NOT the dream MLK had. He was speaking about true equality and predjudice being a thing of the past. Way to go hijacking that dream to suck up to the president elect of the US. Idiot.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    3. Re:Advantages to Censorship by deniable · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Given that this whole thing looks to be a pander to Steve Fielding and Family First, I think the better solution will be to start blocking things they care about. That and downloading porn and asking them to grade it for me.

      I've had just about enough of FF. Rigging Australian Idol didn't bother me, but now they're trying to shut down the web.

    4. Re:Advantages to Censorship by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      Not that I like Rudd but in his defence many people have said the same thing - its sort of the token sound bite you would come to expect, and is not exactly untrue - a half black man has taken the highest office in US government. While it doesn't mean that there is no more racism, its a very important milestone.

      I don't like Rudd because, with this censorship stunt, and that phoney outrage over the art exhibition featuring children - he has shown himself to be a person who believes that the public needs to be 'protected' by a parental like government. I think that is a antithesis to the direction western society has been going for the last two centuries, and a view incompatible with democracy.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    5. Re:Advantages to Censorship by syousef · · Score: 1

      Not that I like Rudd but in his defence many people have said the same thing - its sort of the token sound bite you would come to expect, and is not exactly untrue - a half black man has taken the highest office in US government. While it doesn't mean that there is no more racism, its a very important milestone.

      Can I suggest respectfully that you go and read the MLK speech. He was talking about a world where a black man being president would not even draw media attention. What we have instead is a world where it is a big deal (a "milestone" as you put it) and where assassination attempts are almost a given. Sure it's a step in the right direction that it's possible, but calling that the realization of MLKs dream would be like taking one step and claiming you'd won a marathon!

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    6. Re:Advantages to Censorship by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      The first time a black person wins the presidency of course it will be a big deal - and assassination attempts (despite everyone talking about it) have been a no show. Next time a black person runs for president there will be much less talk about him being black. If MLK was alive what do you think he would say?

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    7. Re:Advantages to Censorship by lucas+teh+geek · · Score: 1

      Tell that to almost all the southern states - they all voted for McCain.

      wow! redneck racists voted for the white guy. colour me surprised!

      --
      TIAEAE!
    8. Re:Advantages to Censorship by syousef · · Score: 1

      The first time a black person wins the presidency of course it will be a big deal - and assassination attempts (despite everyone talking about it) have been a no show. Next time a black person runs for president there will be much less talk about him being black. If MLK was alive what do you think he would say?

      Trying to predict what a dead man I barely knew would say is difficult but I would guess that he'd be very pleased with this step but that he wouldn't be declaring victory.

      As for assassination attempts, there has already been talk of a foiled attempt and the man hadn't even become president elect yet. You should probably at least wait until he's taken office before declaring them a "no show". Ideally you'd wait until his term as president was over.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    9. Re:Advantages to Censorship by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 1

      Actually it's Fuer Howards plan, voting out the Liberal government did nothing to stop such foolishness.

      My vote counted for nothing.....NOTHING!

    10. Re:Advantages to Censorship by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      There is one advantage I can see to all of this. Big Brother will block anything illegal and offensive to me, right? So I can download absolutely anything I DO find since it MUST be legal. After all, the censorship is perfect!

      That argument is stupid, and a strawman. Censorship doesn't have to block everything, it just has to have no false positives. What you actually can assume, in that ironic way, about this censorship is that anything censored will be illegal. Nothing more, nothing less.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    11. Re:Advantages to Censorship by AceofSpades19 · · Score: 1

      As an Australian who fervently opposes Chairman Rudd's censorship bill...

      I'm Australian too and I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Rudd. I find the man to be less than genuine

      you don't say

    12. Re:Advantages to Censorship by deniable · · Score: 1

      It was interesting seeing the early projections yesterday. The red/blue state maps almost looked like a map from the civil war.

    13. Re:Advantages to Censorship by deniable · · Score: 1

      So the solution then is to ramp up the false positive rate. Get everything tagged as wrong and someone will 'fix' it. Fix it the way a vet does, hopefully.

    14. Re:Advantages to Censorship by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      If MLK was alive what do you think he would say?

      I think he'd be very disappointed. He wanted men to be judged on the content of their character. Obama's pro-abortion stance would almost certainly have MLK judge him as a deficient character, as would his association with unrepentant domestic terrorist William Ayers.

    15. Re:Advantages to Censorship by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      I don't like Rudd because, with this censorship stunt, and that phoney outrage over the art exhibition featuring children - he has shown himself to be a person who believes that the public needs to be 'protected' by a parental like government.

      That's been the labor party's platform since it was formed hasn't it? Isn't that what social security etc, the whole kit and kaboodle of socialism is about? Why are you surprised?

      I think that is a antithesis to the direction western society has been going for the last two centuries, and a view incompatible with democracy.

      It is incompatible with liberty. As long as you have a majority of people who see themselves as needing the governments help, it is entirely compatible with democracy. That, IMO, is the purpose of family assistance payments, to condition as many people as possible to see themselves as needing a handout. And yes, I am aware that our "conservative" government promotes this as well, I'm not an apologist for them either.

    16. Re:Advantages to Censorship by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      That's been the labor party's platform since it was formed hasn't it? Isn't that what social security etc, the whole kit and kaboodle of socialism is about? Why are you surprised?

      That's an interesting point. However you cannot have (a good) society without some social security - you need something to catch people when there is a downturn in the economy or if they are between jobs for a while.

      It is incompatible with liberty. As long as you have a majority of people who see themselves as needing the governments help, it is entirely compatible with democracy. That, IMO, is the purpose of family assistance payments, to condition as many people as possible to see themselves as needing a handout. And yes, I am aware that our "conservative" government promotes this as well, I'm not an apologist for them either.

      I think you are being somewhat paranoid there - the point of family assistance is to encourage people to have more children - that a side effect occurs or not is something I think government is ignorant of.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    17. Re:Advantages to Censorship by xav_jones · · Score: 1

      As an Australian who fervently opposes Fuehrer Rudd's censorship bill...

      There, fixed that for you ;)

      There, fixed that for you. Unless you actually meant "for", then my bad.

    18. Re:Advantages to Censorship by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      However you cannot have (a good) society without some social security - you need something to catch people when there is a downturn in the economy or if they are between jobs for a while.

      Thereby demonstrating not the truth of your assertion but your agreement with socialism, in particular with the belief of Rudd's that you claim causes you to dislike him, that "the public needs to be 'protected' by a parental like government".

      I think you are being somewhat paranoid there - the point of family assistance is to encourage people to have more children - that a side effect occurs or not is something I think government is ignorant of.

      I would assert that it is not the place of the government to determine the correct number of children for people to have, this again springs from an assumption that you cannot determine such a thing for yourself and need "mother country" to decide for you. For many people though, the FTB is less than their total tax burden, making it pointless from a financial point of view to take the tax in the first place unless there is a social control agenda. Mind you, you admitted it is all about social control anyway, you just have a different perspective on what that agenda is.

      Why should people who don't have children yet pay more tax? That is exactly their best time to be accumulating assets and savings for the time when they do have children. Why should they be paying for the children of others?

    19. Re:Advantages to Censorship by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      Thereby demonstrating not the truth of your assertion but your agreement with socialism, in particular with the belief of Rudd's that you claim causes you to dislike him, that "the public needs to be 'protected' by a parental like government".

      I understand where you are coming from but I have thought about this a lot - on paper it seems like a 'libertarian' society is best - until you live in such a country and see the results. If people are too poor to pull themselves out of it (by getting re-educated, by being able to afford to look presentable etc) or too sick to work and hence too poor to get better, nobody benefits. Apart from the practical consideration there is a benefit to everyone else as well in that they have a certain assurance that something will catch them if they have bad luck, rather then living in fear and doing anything to keep their jobs as they know they cannot survive otherwise.

      Yes I do agree with many aspects of socialism, and aspects have been shown to be very beneficial to society - the 40h work week, 2 day weekend, sick days, holidays are all socialist ideas that have become so mainstream that few realise its socialist origins. How to balance this to ensure that people don't come to rely on the government for everything? I don't know - perhaps this move by Rudd is a sign that Australia is moving past a point I am comfortable with.

      I would assert that it is not the place of the government to determine the correct number of children for people to have, this again springs from an assumption that you cannot determine such a thing for yourself and need "mother country" to decide for you. For many people though, the FTB is less than their total tax burden, making it pointless from a financial point of view to take the tax in the first place unless there is a social control agenda. Mind you, you admitted it is all about social control anyway, you just have a different perspective on what that agenda is. Why should people who don't have children yet pay more tax? That is exactly their best time to be accumulating assets and savings for the time when they do have children. Why should they be paying for the children of others?

      I don't disagree - I was just making the point that the desired effect of that policy was more children rather than making people dependent on the government.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    20. Re:Advantages to Censorship by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      I understand where you are coming from but I have thought about this a lot - on paper it seems like a 'libertarian' society is best - until you live in such a country and see the results. If people are too poor to pull themselves out of it (by getting re-educated, by being able to afford to look presentable etc) or too sick to work and hence too poor to get better, nobody benefits.

      It's an interesting problem. There is a command in old testament law that every so often (50 years, the Jubilee?) land was to be returned to the inheritors if it had been sold. I'm not sure it was ever followed and I don't want to get into a discussion of the flaws or otherwise of any religion, just I have thought that in the age it was written, if it had been followed it was a pretty good buffer against generational poverty. I've spent quite some time pondering the idea and considering what would be a modern day equivalent. I regard socialism, which is basically supposed to be compulsory generosity, as fundamentally self-contradictory and a violation of human rights. I would not be opposed to any "socialist" program if it was voluntary. I might even participate myself.

      As to the preventing generational poverty, education is a key thing, and is why I support generating an abundant public domain by the shortening of copyright terms and possibly withdrawal from any international copyright treaties, returning to a system where each country enforced its own copyrights only (still thinking about that one, it has pros and cons, but it is notable that the US thrived with this system and eventually became a net exporter instead of importer of copyrighted works, so while people may object to countries using those works for free, we could presume they will follow the same path and eventually produce more than they consume.)

      It is also one reason why I support OSS, because it lowers the barrier to entry into productive work.

      I am still working on ideas for we could ensure people have the ability to provide shelter and food for themselves. The sick/disabled are IMO in a different category than people who are capable (given opportunity) of looking after themselves. I would consider an expanded army reserve, non compulsory, definitely no compulsory overseas service, as an alternative to unemployment benefits. I object to handouts to capable people and I object to work for the dole programs that still require job seeking as I regard the work done to be sufficient to justify payment.

      These points are part of a larger system that would take at least a couple of generations to implement because it would take such a radical overhaul of our society, but they are compatible with many core values this country was founded on.

      Australians all let us rejoice
      Community
      For we are young and free
      New country setting its own traditions, liberty
      We've golden soil and wealth for toil,
      Free enterprise. Capitalist opportunity for everybody, not the few
      Our home is girt by sea:
      A filler line? Reference to defense?
      Our land abounds in nature's gifts
      Of beauty rich and rare,

      Appreciation of nature. Environmental protection was not then a known issue, but is well within the scope of our culture
      In history's page let every stage
      Advance Australia fair,
      In joyful strains then let us sing
      Advance Australia fair.


      Beneath our radiant Southern Cross,
      We'll toil with hearts and hands,

      Work
      To make this Commonwealth of ours
      Renowned of all the lands,
      For those who've come across the seas
      We've boundless plains to share,

      Access to land ownership. This is important, but diminishing in our country.
      With courage let us all combine
      To advance Australia fair.
      In joyful strains then let us sing,
      Advance Australia fair.

      All in all, a very instructive song about what values our country should maintain. Australia today is largely a mockery of this.

  7. Not very good blocking software by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Any decent blocking software also blocks all the popular proxy lists and proxies too (and it constantly updated). Software that does this (like Websense) may not be impossible to get around, but it makes it damn hard (and I know, this is what my school uses and even with my knowledge it's still hard to find a proxy).

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Not very good blocking software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SSH? VPN? It's all mentioned in the article. HTTP proxies are notoriously easy to block.

    2. Re:Not very good blocking software by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Any decent blocking software also blocks all the popular proxy lists and proxies too

      But they can't block proxy ports or they will make it very difficult to do business in Australia. How do you get secure email without a tunnel?

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    3. Re:Not very good blocking software by compro01 · · Score: 3, Informative

      My college uses websense, but Tor goes right through it, and with ready-packaged stuff like xB Browser and OperaTor, it's readily available for practically anyone as long as you can grab the program once (long live the sneakernet).

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    4. Re:Not very good blocking software by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 4, Informative

      Any decent blocking software also blocks all the popular proxy lists and proxies too (and it constantly updated). Software that does this (like Websense [wikipedia.org]) may not be impossible to get around, but it makes it damn hard (and I know, this is what my school uses and even with my knowledge it's still hard to find a proxy).

      Bypassing Websense:

      1. Have a PC running on a high-speed Internet connection on the other side of the Websense proxy.
      2. On that PC, you need to run OpenSSH and an HTTP proxy server, say at mypc.example.com. In this example, I my proxy server will be using port 8080. Run SSH on Port 443 (works every time) on this box.
      3. Using PuTTY or Plink or one of the front-ends for plink, forward 8080 through an SSH connection to this PC from the inside of the Websense firewall. Putty and Plink can tunnel right through the proxy connecting to port 443 just like an HTTPS connection would do.
      4. Set your browser to use the proxy on localhost at port 8080
      5. Done. All Web accesses will go through the SSH proxy and all of this data will be encrypted as a result.

      I will leave the details as an exercise to the reader.

      Doesn't seem 'damn hard' to me at all.

    5. Re:Not very good blocking software by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      I can download Tor, but when I try to use it, all I get is a "Proxy Server Refused Connection" message (using TorButton in Firefox).

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:Not very good blocking software by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I had "a PC running on a high-speed Internet connection on the other side of the Websense proxy" I suppose it wouldn't be.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:Not very good blocking software by Denis+Lemire · · Score: 1

      You don't even need the HTTP proxy, only OpenSSH.

      SSH has a builtin SOCKS proxy you can use...

      ie) ssh -D 1024 x.x.x.x

      Where x.x.x.x is your remote SSH accessible host and 1024 is whatever random port number. Then set your browser to use the socks proxy localhost:1024 and you're all set.

    8. Re:Not very good blocking software by Yuan-Lung · · Score: 1

      Software that does this (like Websense) may not be impossible to get around, but it makes it damn hard


      I am browsing through a lolwebsense filter right now.

      ssh tunnel... forward proxy port to local port... point firefox to local proxy port.... Done

      oh wow, that was hard. ^_-

    9. Re:Not very good blocking software by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Great. Now how do I get a remote host? Let me guess, I go to a proxy list that Websense blocks?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    10. Re:Not very good blocking software by elrous0 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      And how exactly am I supposed to find a server to tunnel *TO* when all the lists of SSH hosts are blocked?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    11. Re:Not very good blocking software by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Well, if that's not financially feasible for you, maybe you could have a friend set one up for you. Alternatively, you may be able to accomplish what you want through a shell host provider or a co-loc or something.

    12. Re:Not very good blocking software by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      no, you buy it from a hosting provider, or set it up on your home computer, or have a friend do the same.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    13. Re:Not very good blocking software by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Again, this is why all these "it's easy to bypass blocking software" arguments are a crock of shit. Sure it's easy. All you need is a host outside the firewall (i.e., in another country if you're in China or Australia) and a way to find out the address of that host THROUGH the firewall that isn't already blacklisted (or soon to be), and the technical know-how to configure your computer to use a proxy. And those requirements, right there, make it all but impossible for 99.99999% of the population to bypass the firewall.

      I can't even bypass my school's websense software. And not a single reply so far has told me a way to do it without first finding a host outside the firewall whose address I can't find because, as I said in my original post, ALL THE PROXY LISTS ARE FUCKING BLOCKED!

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    14. Re:Not very good blocking software by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      What part of you don't need to use a proxy list did you not understand?

      You can do SSH tunneling, for example, with an ordinary Web or 'cloud'-type host. There are like $5/month or less shell accounts or Web hosting accounts or whatever out there. There are even a few free shell hosts like nyx.nyx.net, but I don't know if they allow SSH tunneling or not.

    15. Re:Not very good blocking software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With your knowledge I'd expect you could setup your own proxy.

    16. Re:Not very good blocking software by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I use my dreamhost shell at work to get around work's s filter. Especially since in the last week they really tightened down the firewall.

      I suppose if you had the extra cash $10 a month for no filtering might be worth it. There are plenty of other ssh enabled hosts out there.

    17. Re:Not very good blocking software by Monkier · · Score: 1

      You can also skip the 'running PC' bit, and have putty connect to the SSHD running on a dd-wrt style router.

    18. Re:Not very good blocking software by Monkier · · Score: 1

      or a DD-WRT style router

    19. Re:Not very good blocking software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SSH tunneling is blocked by a decent firewall. And any serious attempt to regulate Internet access filters both web traffic and non-web ports.

    20. Re:Not very good blocking software by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's becoming painfully obvious you're a highschooler trying to get around some stupid proxy. You don't "go find" hosts outside the firewall. You know what they are. They're your home computer, your home router (if you run ddwrt/tomato), your shell account provider (dreamhost for me). This isn't a proxy list, this isn't a list of proxies. It's a computer with OpenSSH running on it.

      Everyone HAS told you how to do it, you're just so anxious about showing your l33t skills of haxoring to the Homecoming queen you aren't listening.

    21. Re:Not very good blocking software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing in what he said gave any indication that he's "...just so anxious about showing your l33t skills of haxoring to the Homecoming queen you aren't listening."

      What you've said, however, is ample indication that you're just some douchebag anxious to feel like a big man by talking down to someone.

    22. Re:Not very good blocking software by xiphos · · Score: 1

      Look at that error message. It's not your schools filters blocking you.
      (Re?)Read the TOR setup FAQ's. They are numerous and helpful.

      --
      Xiphos
    23. Re:Not very good blocking software by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      You can have a friend that has a computer, running linux, using DSL or a cable modem. They create a user for you on their PC. They go to a site like "whats my IP.com" and email you the IP address. then, ssh -l -D 1024 xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx then set your browser to use SOCKS on port 1024 (or whatever port).

      Keep in mind that the types of filtering you are talking about is much, much different than the type that australia is talking about. Your school looks at the URL's you type, and decides weather or not to block it. (maybe they block all connections to *.competingcollege.edu)

      The type of filter that AU is looking at will actually look at the picture or file, and decide if the file is banned. IE, you can put it on any web site, send it in an email, or try to download via FTP, and it will be blocked. The only way around this is encrypted tunnels. (and some of these big file filters can even work on HTTPS connections)

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    24. Re:Not very good blocking software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just use ultravpn, (ultravpn.fr)
      seems way easier to me!

    25. Re:Not very good blocking software by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Did you read my original post? What part of 'run an SSH daemon on port 443' did you not understand?

    26. Re:Not very good blocking software by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Of course, this means that sshd must be open on the router, and patching is not so easy on a router.

    27. Re:Not very good blocking software by Slotty · · Score: 1
      Your post is bound to be filtered out by my government overlords sooner or later.

      On the other hand do you have a proxy server you can lend me to filter the internet through?

      Please let me know before it's too late and my internet is cut o

      <THIS POST HAS BEEN TERMINATED BY THE AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT>

    28. Re:Not very good blocking software by Monkier · · Score: 1

      dd-wrt is an open source firmware replacement for lots of routers. all versions of dd-wrt (except Micro) come with SSHD. i choose dd-wrt because it has a good web-ui to set-up this stuff - there are other linux based firmware replacements around.

    29. Re:Not very good blocking software by lucas+teh+geek · · Score: 1

      and some of these big file filters can even work on HTTPS connections

      you were doing pretty well until here. how exactly does a filter inspect the contents of an encrypted ssl stream without performing a man-in-the-middle attack (which firefox would jump and and down about warning you they're fucking with your shit)

      --
      TIAEAE!
    30. Re:Not very good blocking software by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      Supposedly there are some companies that will put their own root cert on all of their machines, and then use that to mitm all ssl connections.

    31. Re:Not very good blocking software by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, which blocked legal sites could we test this on?

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    32. Re:Not very good blocking software by compro01 · · Score: 1

      At my college, games.slashdot.org is blocked.

      Or a quick way to find something blocked is to simply google the title of a blocked websense category.

      Or this page is quite likely to be blocked on most configurations : http://www.peacefire.org/censorware/WebSENSE/

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    33. Re:Not very good blocking software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simply enable some type of ssl filtering. Deny weak ciphers and block self signed or untrusted CAs. I do it at my company as a protective measure against various malware (bots). They try to use the always open port 443. If there is a legit site using an untrusted CA or self signed cert, then I add their domain to the whitelist. :) Pentesters always freak when they realize I've killed their hidden weapons.

      Don't let me get into how you're not allowed to use USB flash drives, install software, modify browser settings, boot to CD, network, USB or floppy without the password, etc.

      I'm sure my security isn't perfect. It doesn't have to be. People know that we're watching. Make an example of a couple of people and people stop trying. It's not worth it...

    34. Re:Not very good blocking software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which is the point being made by the EFA. As soon as they decide to make themselves the middle man, there will be no security integrity.

    35. Re:Not very good blocking software by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

      Your school set up websense for a reason, if you don't like this then pony up the cash and buy your own line, or change school. Seems to me that the schools IT infrastructure is working exactly as it should. Kudos to them, minus a million points to you for whining like the typical spoon fed apathetic Australian. (I'm Australian, so I can say this)

      I don't care what your story is, you want unfettered internet, then pay for it like everyone else.

    36. Re:Not very good blocking software by profplump · · Score: 1

      You can get a VM or a cheap old box at some colo for $30/month and run whatever kind of proxy you like. It's not free, but it's not exactly expensive either, and you could share the cost with others users without much hassle.

    37. Re:Not very good blocking software by profplump · · Score: 1

      You could provide your own host. Pay a professional or ask a friend to let you run SSHD on some host outside the firewall. If necessary, install an HTTP wrapper to get your SSH data through the local proxy/packet inspector.

      The remote box you're using won't be blocked because WebSense won't know anything about it. Even if your school noticed your traffic and reported it WebSense is unlikely to add your single-user, unadvertised node to their list of proxies. Your school could try to block you directly, but given the ease with which you could switch hosting providers it would be at worst a 1-day annoyance while you changed IPs (or domains, or whatever other identifier they are using to track your traffic).

    38. Re:Not very good blocking software by profplump · · Score: 1

      First the local IT admins make you install their certificate authority, so you trust certificates they generate.

      Then they perform a man-in-the-middle attack on your SSL session using a dynamically generated certificate that you will trust because of the setup in stage one.

      Obviously this only works when you can be convinced or required to trust their certificate authority. But in corporate environments that's the common case, and that's exactly where these kinds of devices are most likely to be deployed.

    39. Re:Not very good blocking software by profplump · · Score: 1

      I realize that security is about raising the bar by increasing the cost or risks or decreasing the reward. And in that respect what you're doing is perfectly reasonably. But on any network where you let users send GET requests to port 80 and receive HTTP data back -- even through a proxy and/or deep packet inspection (and excluding very restrictive environments like whitelist-only web browsing) -- they can tunnel data in and out of your network.

      They could use plain old HTTP on port 80 and run encryption in the message body instead of the data stream. Even if you searched the message body looking for unusual data it's entirely possible to hide the real message inside perfectly valid HTTP requests and responses. And automated scripting could request other normal web pages to hide the tunnel-related traffic in among "normal" browsing.

      At best you could say prove that such users visited a certain site frequently -- assuming you even noticed in the first place. Unless your workplace is very harsh I'd imagine it's hard to "make an example" out of someone for frequently revisiting the same site, particularly if you put up a good cover like job-related tools or a search engine. And even the "frequently revisited" bit could be hidden if you controlled enough remote IP addresses.

      Like I said, what you're doing is reasonably, and you mention other measures you're taking to reduce the risk of this sort of attack. But so long as users have Ethernet cables at their desks and the ability to download web pages a technically skilled attacker can form arbitrary tunnels and can make them difficult to detect.

    40. Re:Not very good blocking software by Von+Helmet · · Score: 1

      I used to do this for one reason and another, but one thing I was never sure of was whether the DNS requests go via the SSH proxy as well. I've a feeling they don't, and are done using the computer's regular DNS lookup. So while you may be able to look at OHNOESILLEGALSITE.com once the HTTP requests are going through the SSH tunnel, the DNS request that got you the IP address for OHNOESILLEGALSITE.com in the first place will be answered by the local DNS server and logged there.

      Can anyone confirm or deny this?

    41. Re:Not very good blocking software by stry_cat · · Score: 1

      While it is "painfully obvious you're [the parent poster] a highschooler trying to get around some stupid proxy," I think they have a point.

      After this censorship thing is implemented lets say you're in Australia just an average bloke (is that what they call a Joe there?). You can't look up proxy lists. Even if you did the proxies listed will probably be blocked by their updating stuff.

      So being unable to look up one or use any that are advertised in any public way, you have to set one up. But how are you going to do that? You've got to get on a network outside of the censorship thing. That meas you've got to leave the country and set one up or at least make contact with a foreigner and make arrangements for this. Not only is this unlikely to happen, but it will probably get you on some terrorist watch list or worse.

      So you can't get a foreign proxy set up. So now what do you do?

      Eh you probably won't have time to even spend on your censored Internet since you'll be working all the time to pay your taxes for this stupid thing.

    42. Re:Not very good blocking software by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      1) Google: 'ssh hosting'
      2) Follow one of the top links: http://b2evolution.net/web-hosting/ssh-hosting-secure-shell-access.php
      3) Buy one month plan.
      4) Putty on windows setup a 'dynamic' forwarding port, ssh on *NIX: ssh -D 1080 myhost.com
      5) Browse freely.

      That's it. You can run anything that supports a SOCKS proxy through it. No looking for proxy lists or any such nonsense.

    43. Re:Not very good blocking software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then watch as all of those ssh hosting sites are blocked because they are circumvention sites. What makes you think they won't block ssh hosting sites or vpn providers the same as proxy sites?

    44. Re:Not very good blocking software by Sunnz · · Score: 1

      Yup, and they just switch to a white list instead, only allowing SSL connections to a limited number of preselected IP addresses.

      Stupid, I know, but that's exactly what they'll do.

      Then you need stegography, which I am not sure how one can block that...

    45. Re:Not very good blocking software by Sunnz · · Score: 1

      It depends on what web browser are doing.

      FireFox for example uses the local DNS server by default even when set up to use a SSH SOCK server.

      You can configure FireFox use tunnel DNS through SOCKS if you want, there is an option in about:config, however I am not sure if that really really works, it should...

      Anyway my solution is to use FoxyProxy, which has an option in a tick box to tunnel DNS through thr proxy, it does work, I have tested it, by sniffing my own outgoing packets.

  8. Follow up by Sasayaki · · Score: 3, Funny

    So far it's working out great! Haven't had my net cut off y

    --
    Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
    1. Re:Follow up by Thiez · · Score: 0, Troll

      You're trying too hard.

    2. Re:Follow up by Samah · · Score: 1

      I think you meant that you haven't had your net cu*#tof$%@@&$%

      --
      Homonyms are fun!
      You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
  9. It can "work" by blincoln · · Score: 1

    If Australia does what a lot of "secure web gateway" vendors are doing with their products - implement a man-in-the-middle attack against encrypted traffic by using a forged cert. So then Australians' choice becomes the same as employees of companies that deploy those systems - agree to being snooped on, or don't use the internet.
    If Australia's government requires that PCs sold there include the root cert used to forge the other certs (again, like SWG vendors), most citizens wouldn't even notice the difference.

    --
    "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    1. Re:It can "work" by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      What do you mean a forged cert? Won't firefox and the like complain loudly? If worse came to worse, the companies could send you a CD with the key on them.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:It can "work" by compro01 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He mentioned adding it to the root certs to get around that. Just persuade Microsoft to add it as a "critical automatic update" and the majority of people won't notice a thing.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    3. Re:It can "work" by Psychotria · · Score: 2, Funny

      Microsoft is not high on my list of companies that I regard in good stead. But the Australian Government "persuad[ing] Microsoft to add it [forged certs] as a "critical automatic update" targetted at AU users only seems a bit far-fetched--even to me.

    4. Re:It can "work" by compro01 · · Score: 1

      Well, they've listed patches for their music DRM system as such critical updates, so it doesn't seem very out of character.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    5. Re:It can "work" by Psychotria · · Score: 1

      Well, they've listed patches for their music DRM system as such critical updates, so it doesn't seem very out of character.

      Which countries were targetted for those updates? If it was not targetted on a country-by-country basis, then my argument still stands.

    6. Re:It can "work" by profplump · · Score: 1

      Why would it need to be targeted only at AU users? If MS trusts (read: accepts enough money from) the AU government enough to add their CA to Windows why would they care if it was AU only or affected all versions of Windows?

    7. Re:It can "work" by blincoln · · Score: 1

      In addition to the "add it to the trusted root list" that other people elaborated on, my point was more that whether or not Firefox (or whatever) complains, end users in Australia would still have two choices:
      - Let the government snoop on their traffic.
      - Don't use the internet at all.
      The "get the keys offline" method is the only one I could think of for a workaround as well.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    8. Re:It can "work" by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      The "get the keys offline" method is the only one I could think of for a workaround as well.

      What country has the cheapest connectivity to Australia? I think there may soon be a business opportunity for someone to put an "Anonomyzer" style service there and start pressing some CDs.

      I also wonder how Freenet will scale :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  10. The painful thing is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was introduced by the previous government the Liberal party, and going to be implemented by the current government the Labor party. So with the two party system there is no options for voters to have a say on this.

    1. Re:The painful thing is by ink · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yep, and the DMCA was a bi-partisan effort here in the States. Neither side cares much for digital rights.

      --
      The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
    2. Re:The painful thing is by deniable · · Score: 1

      The last lot were 'looking at it,' but Howard realised that he would get hammered for it and he was too busy trying to stay in power to do any real damage, so they kept looking.

      The current lot said they were looking at it too, but then they needed some help getting their economic plan through the Senate and suddenly we have a mandatory filtering plan.

    3. Re:The painful thing is by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 1

      My vote counted for nothing.

      FUCK.

    4. Re:The painful thing is by deniable · · Score: 1

      No matter how you vote, a politician always wins.

  11. First, We Take the Guns. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hrm, so 11 years after their Federal powergrab to start banning arms. Not as fast as some regimes, but fitting the pattern pretty well.

    Remember what Paul Hogan says, "That's not a knife, this is a knife... that'll get you locked up for two years if you try carrying it in my country."

    Australians used to be such bad-asses.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:First, We Take the Guns. by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Not flamebait mods, he is stating facts. It's illegal to carry a knife in Australia "without good reson".

      No personal safetly isn't a reason apparently.

    2. Re:First, We Take the Guns. by deniable · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      And it's legal to own a firearm with good reason. It's flame-bait because he's spouting the 'they took away you guns' bullshit that pro-machinegun idiots have been spouting for years.

    3. Re:First, We Take the Guns. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      And it's legal to own a firearm with good reason. It's flame-bait because he's spouting the 'they took away you guns' bullshit that pro-machinegun idiots have been spouting for years.

      Tell us again, why do we have a right to bear arms?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:First, We Take the Guns. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the assist, and congrats on your 'flamebait' mod. If there was ever a better illustration that statists will use whatever power they can harness to squash dissenting opinion. Wear it proud, my brotha.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  12. Disobedient by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    you thought your actions were legal since there's a "foolproof" filtering system that should've properly protected you.

    It's fool-proof, not criminal proof. Since you're reading material that's critical of the Australian government you've proven yourself a criminal.

    Please come with us. *click-clack*

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  13. Google 'Nolan Chart' by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The US voted out the religious right yesterday. Pitty our religious right goverment isn't due for re-election for another couple of years...

    It has little to do with being religious or right. The problem is statists, no matter their views on God, Gods, no Gods, or economics.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Google 'Nolan Chart' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, for one, would love to hear you define "statists". I'm curious if you're referring to the nationalistic, some-what jingoist movements between which most common Americans would call countries, or, if you refer to the growing concern that individual states within the United States have little say in what their citizens are ruled by.

      If you would happen to entertain an AC on this, it would be an interesting conversation I believe.

    2. Re:Google 'Nolan Chart' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... God, Gods, no Gods, or economics ...

      Oh, you mean everyone and everything accused of having an invisible hand in human affairs? :-)

      apropos captcha: merciful

    3. Re:Google 'Nolan Chart' by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      I, for one, would love to hear you define "statists". I'm curious if you're referring to the nationalistic, some-what jingoist movements between which most common Americans would call countries, or, if you refer to the growing concern that individual states within the United States have little say in what their citizens are ruled by.

      Ah, I see the confusion. Statists is typically meant to refer to people who value the State over the individual. The State is broadly defined, not narrowly to one of the 50 States that together form the United States of America. In this particular case, to the Government of the United States. Folks who fly banners that say things like "Country First".

      The second type you refer to would just be people who understand the US Constitution.

      If you would happen to entertain an AC on this, it would be an interesting conversation I believe.

      I filter them at my mail server because they're usually worthless. I just happened to be logged in now. I encourage you to do the same.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  14. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by SpiderClan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1. http://www.google.com.au/

    2. 'Australia internet filter bypass'

    3. 95% of the population can bypass the filter.

  15. The internet is end to end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It's time to enforce the dumb network model. Too many network operators aren't content with just moving data around for their customers. Port filtering, bandwidth shaping, transparent proxying and filtering are all violations of the dumb network design and the current attempts at limiting the freedom to access public information prove that leaving the dumb network model is a slippery slope.

  16. Misunderstanding by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The filter is there for people who don't want to bypass it.

    The only reason there is no opt out planned for the "illegal material" filter is because a "reasonable person" should not want to opt out of it.

    In other words: it's not malice, it's stupidity.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Misunderstanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm having a hard time if you're for or against it.

      At the very least the "illegal material" filter will not block anything or will block too much, and at the same time it will increase costs to our already cost laden service, and decrease competition (as smaller ISPs won't be able to afford it).

      This is without even considering the political consequences, who decides what's illegal? Is violence illegal? Is stupidity illegal? Is one mans definition of exploitation illegal?

      For instance, Australia bans a lot of games and movies.

      Additionally what about it being used to increase its power, Stephen Conroy and his team have already moved to silence critics from ISPs. What if he had a useful tool, say a filter, with which to silence his opponents?

      It's a slippery fucking slope, starting with it being impractical and ruining our internet service industry and ending in us being even more at the whim of ficle political agendas.

    2. Re:Misunderstanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words: it's not malice, it's stupidity.

      From where I'm sitting it's very hard to tell the difference.

  17. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The US voted out the religious right yesterday.

    Really? You might want to read up on California's newest constitutional amendment.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  18. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by maglor_83 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not if they block google.

  19. Or use OpenVPN! by toby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's LZO compressed by default - not to mention encrypted and X509 authenticated - which probably means a net reduction in bandwidth. Go visit their site. It's truly excellent open source software.

    But seriously. As a practical matter, anyone stuck behind state censorship can use a friend's OpenVPN and proxy in another country.

    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:Or use OpenVPN! by ignavus · · Score: 1

      But seriously. As a practical matter, anyone stuck behind state censorship can use a friend's OpenVPN and proxy in another country.

      You insensitive clod! I don't have any friends.

      I just post on Slashdot so that I can pretend that I have friends.

      --
      I am anarch of all I survey.
  20. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by woot+account · · Score: 1

    As well as Florida and Arizona's.

  21. SSH/VPN is a crap answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    and where do we exactly tunnel to egh ? for free ?
    everybody is so quick to point out SSH/VPN but its useless unless you have an exit point

    1. Re:SSH/VPN is a crap answer by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Set up some end points in the USA. Given that Barack Obama has stated that he is in favor of net neutrality, the USA is unlikely to start filtering its internet connections anytime soon. They may pass through NSA snooping gear though (but if its encrypted, even the NSA cant listen to it in real time)

  22. Somewhat relative: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."
    -- Adolf Hitler

    Sorry for Godwin'ing this article but it is quite relative. Senator Conroy is trying to argue this like a Christian, any time someone speaks against him about the filter he just puts his fingers in his ears and says "la la la can't hear you, you're a pedophile because you oppose my filter"

  23. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which was supported more than 50% by Democrats.

  24. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by deniable · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hopefully, they will. Google is mainstream enough that killing it will be one of the quickest ways to piss off the public and get this whole plan scrapped. There's an old rule that 'the best way to fight a stupid law is to enforce it to the letter.' This explains why Australia has a tonne of boneheaded laws that are never enforced.

  25. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by speedlaw · · Score: 1

    dude, you live in a country which has the most restrictive photo speed cam and photo stoplight regime in the world........

  26. Geeks are missing the point by speedlaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not about whether you can read by flashlight under the covers. I realize as a 'murican that the First Amendment freedoms of speech are a "local ordinance" in cyberspace, but Australia is copying China...Communist China. I am of the understanding that a printing press can reproduce odious child porn...so we should register and monitor ALL the presses. Does not this small bit offend, concern or otherwise motivate those "down under" ? I'm not very familiar with Aussie politix, but I would think that in a nominal democracy something this huge would trigger backlash. Censoring the internet in a free country ? Who cares if you can work around....that's SO not the point.

    1. Re:Geeks are missing the point by deniable · · Score: 1

      It hasn't been implemented yet and while the politicians are still talking about it, it's under the public's radar. Once Conroy and Fielding start pushing this through Parliament, it will get more attention.

  27. Not convicts ... sheep. by Capsaicin · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Oh please! Australia's convict legacy, (along with Australia's image of itself located in the bush or the outback, the bushranger rebel etc) is just over-romanticised nonesense. The fact is only NSW and Van Diemens Land (as it then was) were founded as convict colonies. The other states were founded by free settlers. And even in NSW and Tasmania the contribution of convicts to the population is insignificant (say compared to the fossickers who came during the 1850s and 60s). Let's stop pulling our collective dicks about that one. The truth is that Australia is, and has always been, a highly urbanised country made up in the made of staid townsfolk.

    There really is no need for 'repressive' authoritarianism. The Australian population are docile with not the least streak of the convict or the rebel in us. Freedom of speech, separation of church and state etc. as abstract civil liberties have no resonance for Australians as they do for people who actually had to fight to gain independence and liberty.

    A few will jump up and down, but on the whole 'we' will simply sit back and let the govt get about its business do this. And then just quietly use proxy servers to get our pr0n. And the govt, having satisfied the "fundametalist luddites" (read: FamilyFirst(tm)) won't care (unless the fundies grow a brain and want anonymisers blacklisted too). Tell me it isn't so.

    Sorry, but having to fight to keep my kids out of scripture classes at our local public school (NB: we have almost the same provision against establishing religion in our constitution that makes this illegal in the US ... but no one gives a shit) against the apathy of other "atheist" parents who can't see anything wrong with the school turning their kids over to evangelicals who employ "the latest developements in developmental and cognitive psychology" (from the course materials) to indoctrinate defenceless 5 year olds, has left me with no illusions that Australians actually care ... about anything other than sport that is. (Actually I've only been here since '71 so maybe it's just my crazy reffo way of thinking). I'll get off the soapbox now.

    --
    Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    1. Re:Not convicts ... sheep. by deniable · · Score: 1

      Some of the other colonies did use convict labour. Western Australia was founded by free men but imported convicts for a while. The thing a lot of the people making a big deal about our convicts forget is: we let them go when their term was up and their children were born free.

      If you came out in '71 you'd be in the majority of Australians who are or descend form post WWII migrants. I'm old school, my family are post WWI migrants. :)

      I remember being forced to do scripture classes in primary school. We always wondered about the kids who went elsewhere during those classes and that's got to be a problem. The only things I learned from that class are: "You reap what you sew" and don't trust priests.

    2. Re:Not convicts ... sheep. by Capsaicin · · Score: 1
      p> The thing a lot of the people making a big deal about our convicts forget is: we let them go when their term was up and their children were born free.

      Ah but it's all in the poluted blood see! What Americans who say this forget is the they were only sent here after they had their revolution and wouldn't take any themselves. And what most everyone forgets is that 'Australia' (as a political rather than geographical entity) did not exist until the first day of the C20th (1901-01-01), by which time transportation was a distant memory.

      If you came out in '71 you'd be in the majority of Australians who are or descend form post WWII migrants. I'm old school, my family are post WWI migrants. :)

      I'm both as it happens, German father, Australian mother, actually I'm something like 7th or 8th gen born OS ... I'm being ironic calling myself a reffo. Mind I've been asked "how do you like it here" by someone who wasn't even born in 1971! "Well mate, it was a great place in the 70s. but it's really went to the dogs in the 80s ... ;)"

      I remember being forced to do scripture classes in primary school. We always wondered about the kids who went elsewhere during those classes and that's got to be a problem. The only things I learned from that class are: "You reap what you sew" and don't trust priests.

      Things have changed. This is part of a battle within the Anglican/Episcopalian church between liberals and evangelicals. Jensen (Sydney Archbishop and along with Nigeria on the extreme fundie wing) has explictly singled out scripture teaching in public schools as one of the battle fronts. The children are the pawns in this theological war.

      When deciding whether to allow them to have access to my first kid I bought their course materials. I have no problem at all with kids learning bible stories (I'm a amateur wannabe bible scholar myself), or being taught to be kind to one and other (in fact if the catholics we here I might let him go). But that is not what is being taught. The course has been cleverly designed to inculcate the kids with fear and an unshakeble belief in God as the evangelists see him (complete with creationism).

      It reminds me of the psychology experiment with the fluffy bunny and the gong, where they induced a fluffy bunny phobia in a baby. It looks like some atheists decided, how can we condition children to make them believe in God. After all, if they had faith, it would hardly seem necessary to manipulate the minds little children, God would be powerful enough to make Himself known if he wanted, surely. The truth is, one way or another, these guys just can't leave little kids alone.

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    3. Re:Not convicts ... sheep. by cammoblammo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When deciding whether to allow them to have access to my first kid I bought their course materials. I have no problem at all with kids learning bible stories (I'm a amateur wannabe bible scholar myself), or being taught to be kind to one and other (in fact if the catholics we here I might let him go). But that is not what is being taught. The course has been cleverly designed to inculcate the kids with fear and an unshakeble belief in God as the evangelists see him (complete with creationism).

      Hmm, I know the problem. I fixed that in my kids' school---I teach the Scripture lessons. Few of the kids in the classes I teach (11-12 year olds) had heard of evolution until I taught it to them last week.

      It wasn't strictly in the curriculum, but it's nothing that's not (officially) in the school curriculum anyway, so I think I'll keep my job. If I stop posting on /. in the next week or two, though, send out a search party...

      --

      Cogito, ergo sig.

  28. VPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You get a VPS and SSH into that. Prices start at $4 per month and there are thousands of providers.

  29. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by deniable · · Score: 1

    Dude, we have multiple states and territories with different traffic regimes. What are you talking about?

  30. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by Cinnaman · · Score: 1

    I would agree with speedlaw, who (in a metropolitan area) doesn't look at their speedo needle every 30 seconds or have a fear of major intersections (which often have a combined speed and red light camera).

    Apparently not wearing your seatbelt can attract around a $250 fine in South Australia. And there was a police blitz this year which cost me a court appearance and $515 when one put the plate number of my unregistered car through their computer.

    So the boneheaded laws probably are enforced.

  31. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by HJED · · Score: 1

    That may be true in the US but in Australia the sad fact that similar technology is in use already at all Department of Education property large numbers of people know how to bypass this
    If there is a way to bypass it altmost everyone under 16 will have got annoyed enough to search for 'bypass AU filter' which will almost certanly have results telling them how to

    --
    null
  32. A proxy might be useful IF by dotar · · Score: 1

    ... the filter was an IP blacklist. If I recall correctly, they're planning on putting a CONTENT filter in place- scanning the md5 of any file transmitted in Australia against a hash blacklist. Now I'm admittedly a little hazy on the details of VPNs, but isn't generally browsing the net over a VPN a little... impractical? And, of course, as others have pointed out circumventing the filter will be illegal thus any technology/ website that allows it will be 404ed... It seems like such a stupid idea, but then, this IS Australia... :( I'm moving to New Zealand.

  33. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

    I see nothing boneheaded about requiring people to wear a seatbelt. The only thing that is boneheaded here is not wearing a seatbelt. And you didn't register your car and you got fined? Oh boo hoo!

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  34. We should have seen this coming by Dracophile · · Score: 2, Informative

    The ALP's position on this before last year's federal election was that the proposed filtering system was optional; you could opt out of it. However, on 2 November, just weeks before election day, ALP candidate for the seat of Kingsford Smith, Peter Garret, told 2UE journalist Steve Price, "once we get in we'll just change it all". Now that comment was in the context of climate policy, but I guess now we know that it has a somewhat broader application, because the ALP's position has changed post-election to a mandatory filtering system.

    Given that there are ISP plans that offer the sort of filtering that the ALP wishes to force on everyone in the country, and that the government already offers client-side filtering packages, free of charge, this post-election flip-flop is nothing sort of treacherous, and if they go ahead with it I suspect that a lot of Australians will be waiting for the ALP at the next poll with metaphorical baseball bats. I, for one, talk to my friends and family about this issue. It's a vote-changer for me, and I take time to make sure that my friends and family understand how this affects them.

    Memo any ALP apparatchiks that might have found their way to Slashdot: This is a vote-changing issue. There are many of us who are extremely displeased with the pig-headed way in which the Minister has pursued this matter. The ALP stands to lose many votes over it. There are few votes to be won because nearly all of those you hope to gain over this filtering proposal already go to religious candidates and you have stuff-all chance of changing that. Summary dismissal and form letters that don't even address the issues are no longer good enough. Ignore the users of the internet at your electoral peril.

    --
    Athy, athier, athiest.
  35. Re:Even though geeks and tech savy people can bypa by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    I think it's great to remind people of that, but I hope nobody gets confused into thinking that it somehow refutes my point.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.