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Compressed-Air Car Nears Trial
DeviceGuru writes "Air France and KLM have announced plans to conduct a six-month trial of a new zero-emission, compressed-air powered vehicle. The AirPod seats three, can do 28 mph, and goes about 135 miles on a tank of compressed air. Motor Development International, the vehicle's developer, expects the AirPod to reach production by mid-2009, and to sell for around 6,000 Euro. Initially, it will be manufactured in India by Tata Motors, and distributed in France and India."
...would hate to see someone siphon fuel from this car!
always mosh clockwise
Parts of this thing will get fucking cold. Just imagine all the heat lost when the compressed air is let to cool down.
Oh well, not like I care about the environment or anything.
28 MPH is not fast enough for realistic street travel.
The concept is not entirely worthless though. If you apply the power train to a bicycle frame you have a very powerful upgrade to a standard bicycle, and with the even higher power to weight ratio you have a considerable speed upgrade as well.
I predict this will flop pretty badly because of this speed limitation, and if it starts to take off people will have them banned as "moving road blocks".
I, for one, would not tolerate an urban landscape clogged by a bunch of people who can't go faster than my grandmother. I hope they also come standard with the requisite continuously running directional indicator for those speeds.
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Sounds like it should be an Apple brand.
How much energy is required to run the compressor to fill the high pressure air cylinders?
You still have to compress the air somehow, either with an electric- or combustion-powered compressor. I'm curious to see how much these cost to operate per mile versus a battery-powered electric car.
I hope they also come standard with the requisite continuously running directional indicator for those speeds.
I don't understand what this means.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Or not.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
you've never been behind someone going 15 miles under with the blinker on?
where do you live, rural north dakota?
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There are many jokes about old people and/or women and/or various ethnic groups being bad drivers. In these jokes, these people often drive slowly and forget to turn off their blinkers.
I never thought the thing I use to clean my keyboard could be used to power a car.
That's exactly what I was thinking. This seems to be in the "go-cart" class of cars.
Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
Close. Australia. The connection between indicators running and driving slowly wasn't obvious to me. Must be a meme specific to your locale.
Here we would say that slow drivers are always wearing hats.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
If you mean hazard lights, then just say 'hazard lights' and we will know what you are talking about, no need for the esoteric corporate buzz words.
I'm Australian living in Manila, it's not often you get above 20mph in this city. Even at the few times you can, since the locals have absolutely no concept of or ability to build a flat surface, it's not really going to happen anyway. I'd say it'd be a sure thing here.
I don't know about the US, but most European cities have speed limits of 50 km/h (around 31 mph), so it's not that far of.
Actually, I would not mind this type of car getting popular, since it would lower the air and noise pollution in crammed cities quite considerably.
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
nt.
I thought the headline read "compressed air can nears trial". Imagine my surprise when I clicked on the link!
Read TFA and you will know there is a 70mph version planned.
In London 28 MPH is optimistic.
Where are you? The usual in-city speed limit here is 31 mph (50kph).
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
If people were able to drive golf carts to work they would. Making them air powered doesn't help.
That has to be the lamest looking car, I've ever seen.
They've got to be kidding!
"Seats 135, goes 3 mph, and travels 28 miles", then read, "Seats 28, goes 135 mph, and travels 3 miles"...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I don't know about the US, but most European cities have speed limits of 50 km/h (around 31 mph), so it's not that far of.
Actually, I would not mind this type of car getting popular, since it would lower the air and noise pollution in crammed cities quite considerably.
Zero-emissions, true, but I'd watch the videos before claiming this would lower noise pollution. It seemed sort of loud, at least in the video I watched.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
So you crazy Australians have direction indicating hazard lights? IT'S OVER THERE! LOOK AT WHERE I'M SHINING!
Tag as vaporware. MDI have been peddling this for over a decade with no results; its always nearing trials.
So on a flat surface it can't even reach the laughably slow speed limits imposed in most built-up areas. My route to work involves a steep incline with a 40 limit, I'd hate to be stuck behind one of these things going 5mph.
The main benefit of this of course is that you can refill it for free at the tyre-inflater.
As an interesting means of propulsion, it's interesting but I just don't see why compressed air is considered such a good means of storing energy. Surely replacable batteries would be just as convenient for a much higher energy density.
It's a heat engine, no more efficient than a petrol powered engine, but with the problem of low density energy storage. Basically it doesn't look good compared to batteries and electric drive.
Deleted
Air France Industries and KLM Engineering and Maintenance will be evaluating the AirPod from the perspective of safety, ergonomics, deployment, reliability, and maintenance costs, among other factors.
Isn't all of the above a little bit removed from their core business? The only logical use I could think of for these cars in the airline business is transporting staff and luggage around airports, tarmacs and hangars...
There are more advanced efforts. A car using a petrol motor to compress can give insane millage and estimated speeds of ~110kmh / ~70mph
This was aired on Australia television a few years back http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=J0KXrDpowJk
Having traveled in India, I can assure you that 28MPH is plenty of speed for most people, especially when commuting in the cities or rural areas.
Participatory Governance : The only feasible option for a real democracy, where everyone really does have a say.
The article says there are 4 other models planned, with one reaching speeds of 70mph... It also seems to hint that the initial models are being used as maintenance vehicles and such. Their first major test buyer is Air France. Its more like their initial models are looking to replace electric cars in the workplace, not for high way driving. But of course you knew all of this, because no one comments without first reading the article.
"Here we would say that slow drivers are always wearing hats."
wat
Looks like it needs a hole in the floor so you can stick your feet out the bottom and help accelerate the car. If you look at the first video they have in link, they had to push it to go.
The amount of energy you can put in to compressed air is pretty lousy and as someone else already mentioned above, you'd lose a lot of heat energy and you have to deal with the freezing effect when you begin to release the air.
Damn those evil Automobile companies trying to keep the 28mph car away from the public.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
28MPH when the car is fully charged, I assume? How about when the tank is 1/2 full? Does it have a heater for the winter?
A novel idea, but if we're going to make people movers, electric sounds like a more realistic implementation. An electric go-kart isn't that hard to mass produce.
Also, I'm wondering if these guys have mane any progress, lately.
I thought Fred had a patent on cars with holes
It is not intended to replace your SUV or run cross-country.
It is intended to allow a maximum of 3 people get from A to B where the distance is relatively short. Like home to the super market. You don't need an SUV to do that.
It is not intended to replace a sports car.
Most urban areas have 50km/h speed limits, and in often cases even that is unreachable due to congestion.
It is not intended to be an ultra efficient machine.
The use of compressed air means that in the end, the energy efficiency will be just about the same as a gasoline/petrol engine. But that's not the point. It has zero emissions, and most compressors run off of electricity. That means lower smog in heavily populated urban areas. (Ever been to large Indian cities?) In addition, air compressors are easy and relatively cheap infrastructure to introduce in most areas. Of course, plug-in hybrids are too, but you can't get a plug-in hybrid for 6,000 Euros.
If this car does not fit your needs, then its not intended for you. One size does not fit all.
Here is a vehicle that is not as fast as 28MPH and its so popular that I can continuously hear their sound as I type this: Auto Rikshaw
Yup, in the UK the speed limit is 30mph in built-up areas. There are a few bits where the speed limit is 50mph in bits of town that have major roads running through them, but if it can actually go at 28mph, then it's fast enough for in-town driving. You wouldn't want to drive it between cities though.
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"It's a heat engine"
No it's not.
"Yes it is"
Allright then.. what's the heat source?
FRA: STFU GTFO
"IT'S OVER THERE! LOOK AT WHERE I'M SHINING!"
If you hear that in the bush and the lights on you, best hit the deck quick smart.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Where are you? The usual in-city speed limit here is 31 mph (50kph).
I've seen two major types of urban design pattern here in Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA, population ca. 200,000, the speed limit on arterials is closer to 40 mph (64 km/h). If an arterial is the only road between where you live and where you work, and you drive a slow-moving vehicle such as a 20 mph bicycle or an air-powered car that can't break 28 mph, you must become an obstruction.
I don't know about the US, but most European cities have speed limits of 50 km/h (around 31 mph), so it's not that far of.
Actually, I would not mind this type of car getting popular, since it would lower the air and noise pollution in crammed cities quite considerably.
very little noise pollution is from the engine, it's mostly road-tire noise. not that i disagree.
Yeah. We dont call them 'memes' outside Oz though.
We call them 'laws'
if this catches up, the tire inflaters won't be free anymore... it will mean people buying less gas and the gas stations are bound to have profit...
Onda Technology Institute
"Four other models, featuring speeds up to about 70 mph, are also on the drawing board."
I had a car that ran on compressed air back in the early 80s.
The big difference is that you can buy an electric powered air compressor for your home and refuel there (hell, the car might even have one built-in).
You can't (easily) produce gasoline at home, which gives gas stations a form of monopoly.
I doubt gas stations would be able to gouge like you infer, there's going to be a lot more competition for producing compressed air if the idea takes off.
A company called MDI already has compressed air cars on the streets of Mexico city. Here is a youtube video with some interviews with them. They actually make several cars and can get over 60mph and 200mph per fillup. Fillup takes 3 minutes with pre-compressed air or 4 hours off a home compressor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztFDqcu8oJ4
Note, disregard the commentators crackpot statement about perpetual motion at the end. The company isn't making that claim.
You also have pollution where the electricity is produced but that is true of all the alternatives being suggested today. It is far more efficient and economical to produce clean energy on a large scale at a power plant than it is at the vehicle level.
For that matter, with current scrubber technology even coal power is actually pretty clean. It's not renewable and isn't a solution but in the meantime its cleaner than burning gas on a car by car basis. It's certainly cleaner than creation and disposal rechargeable batteries.
28 MPH is not fast enough for realistic street travel. [...] I, for one, would not tolerate an urban landscape clogged by a bunch of people who can't go faster than my grandmother.
Check out French "car" maker Ligier. They, and others, have been producing similar vehicles for several years. Just diesel-powered, and less silly-looking. They are classified as mopeds, and are therefore not allowed to go faster than 45km/h (28mph). (Some models are classified as 4-wheel motorcycles and can go faster).
Not being classified as a "car" means they don't have to pass crash tests, so it's probably a good thing they don't go faster.
Apparently you've never enjoyed realistic street travel in a crowded major city such as midtown New York or central London, where 28 mph would be pretty optimistic and, on some streets, illegal.
The AirPod looks oddly like the auto-rickshaws used in Delhi, or the tuk-tuk of Bangkok. These devices generally are powered by internal-combustion engines that burn CNG (compressed natural gas).
They're plenty fast enough for high-density urban surface street travel, and in India I've seen as many as 10 people crammed into one, traveling on rural highways.
I'm puzzled by the KLM-Air France connection, although I suppose these would make fine runabouts for airport workers. Sort of like golf carts.
On another note ...
Most of the comments I'm reading here completely miss the point of the compressed air, which is not a carbon-neutral fuel source but essentially just the equivalent of a wind-up spring. That lets the vehicle be powered by any energy source, depending on how the air is compressed. You get to carbon-neutral by using some non-petroleum power to compress the air, such as nuclear-generated electrical energy.
Electric cars work the same way, but I have to wonder about the environmental impact of disposal of the batteries, which do wear out.
This vehicle would be perfect for me. I have a 3.5 mile commute through 25 mph residential areas. And my favorite pub is only 1.5 miles away from home through residential streets as well :-)
The question becomes: are there enough people like me with similar commutes to make this vehicle commercially viable?
Vonnegut was right: Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are, "It might have been."
It might depend on where exactly you live, but cars tend to go 35-40 when there isn't a lot of traffic to slow them down. And for in town driving you really want decent acceleration so you don't have to wait for a large gap when turning onto a busy road, if it's top speed is 28 mph I doubt it'll be able to accelerate very quickly.
I live in London and I wouldn't want to drive a car that can't do at least 40 and get to 30 fairly quickly.
Laughable? Around here this thing'll go fast enough to lose control on some of our streets, and that's without them being down hill.
The 25mph speed limit for non-arterials is really pushing the limits of safety or sense. Anything pops out on the narrow streets and you've got to slam on the breaks.
There's a reason why speed limits are placed where they are. Roads are generally designed for a certain speed of traffic and that's usually the posted speed limit.
Washington DC, of course, would have a ban on air powered vehicles within city limits, as there is already too much hot air.
One of the problems is how to compress the air without using polluting means. Er, wait a minute, they've found a way to harness most politicians' speeches! Brilliant!
Apparently you've never enjoyed realistic street travel in a crowded major city such as midtown New York or central London, where 28 mph would be pretty optimistic and, on some streets, illegal.
nope, just rushour in downtown and midtown atlanta, where the public transit is a joke, assuring even more congestion. There are still plenty of places you can exceed 35, and personally I'd ease up and shove one of these little annoyances out of my way.
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Did anyone else notice the car had to be pushed to get started? Once it drove to the other end of the path it got stuck. I don't see why they demonstrated the prototype in a non working state. This one should have been left in the oven a little longer.
Batteries are highly recyclable. Especially the toxic stuff, as it is usually quite valuable.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
I've read somewhere that "turn signals" are called "blinkers" in the US and "winkers" in the UK. They're not talking about hazard lights though.
In the United States, many states and municipalities have already approved low-speed electrics for local commuting. They are generally limited to 25mph (which I consider to be an asinine limitation), and have short range like 30 miles or so. Of course you can't take them on highways or other high-speed streets.
I, too, argue that this is not very practical... but it is apparently pracical enough for many people to have bought them.
That is the most pathetic "test" of a vehicle I have ever seen. They had to push it to get it going, on level ground!
The general concept might be sound, but that thing is ugly, obviously underpowered, too vertical (top-heavy and un-aerodynamic), AND, even worse, shows poor engineering.
For example, a three-wheel "automobile"-type vehicle should always have the two wheels in front, not in the rear. A tricycle with only one wheel in front (this has two wheels, but they are too close together, basically giving a tricycle configuration) is unstable in corners and braking. This is well-known, and proven in tests with recumbent bicycles and other efficiency vehicles. Go fast, or downhill, and apply the brakes -- especially when cornering -- and over you go.
Other than making public such a joke of a "road test", that is probably their biggest mistake.
I wouldn't touch one of those things with a 10-foot hose, nor allow anyone in my family to do so.
It's taking a long time to change the actual layout of cities, but in the last decade or so there has been a lot of evidence that (in certain situations) decreasing the speed limit on city streets improves capacity. That's right, not just reducing traffic jams by making it less desirable to drive, but actually increasing capacity. Freeways have long been known to have their highest capacity when just about everybody is going just about 55 miles/hour. There are lots of complicated reasons for this, but one of the obvious ones is that when cars go faster, the size of the empty bubble around them increases, particularly when not all cars are going the same speed.
I live in the UTC area of San Diego, and our main roads are three lanes each way and have speed limits of 45 miles/hour. That's great for the 20 seconds you spend accelerating to the next red light, which is probably about 2 minutes long.
In short, systems are more complicated than individuals. If you're the only person on the road, sure, you're going to go faster if you're going at 45mph than 28mph. But when there are intersections, stoplights, *other cars*, and traffic jams, are you going to go faster if everybody is trying to reach 45mph? Not necessarily, and in some cases emphatically NO.
Tire inflators aren't free where I am :( 75 cents! At that rate, I'd prefer to take a bicycle pump and get a little exercise.
A lot of universities/government buildings/big companies around here have free charging stations in their lot for electric cars, because electricity is dirt cheap. I betcha if these take off, we'll start seeing free (or cheap) compressed air stations too.
Using compressed air to store energy is simple and doesn't have the life cycle limits that batteries do. However, *all* gasses when compressed become hotter. A significant portion of the energy put into the compression goes into that heat. If the compressed gas is allowed to cool, it loses a serious portion of its energy which shows up as a reduction in pressure. This is made worse during its expansion in an engine - it cools to below ambient temperature so it doesn't expand as much as its original volume. Only if expanded isothermally will you get its stored energy back. So you lose energy in compression *and* expansion unless each is either isothermal or you store the thermal energy. Making a pressure tank that keeps the heat in is a major thermal trick unless you drive the vehicle right away (in minutes). Otherwise electrical storage is far more efficient. If you want to reduce pollution and energy use, efficiency is of primary importance... Ref: Any Thermodynamics 101 course.
and personally I'd ease up and shove one of these little annoyances out of my way.
I was taking you seriously on your other comment, but now I'm wondering if you are just an Internet Tough Guy(TM)
'Indicators' in the UK.
...out of gas. If it works (gets me safely to and from work and short errands around town, 40 miles per day), very cool. I'd buy one. No batteries.
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Trams and carts running in hazardous environments used compressed air one hundred years ago. The History of Compressed Air Vehicles
Compressed air is used to start the engines of a commercial jet - which means that KLM and Air France probably have the necessary infrastructure in place on the ground. Compressed-air engine
The problem with the wind-up car is that you need a pretty big spring and pretty big key - and someone strong enough to wind it up.
Henry Ford chose gasoline for two fundamental reasons:
A gallon of gas could transport a family of four and their baggage about twenty-five miles - a full day's excursion by horse and buggy.
In 1896 you could economically ship and store a barrel of gasoline almost anywhere by rail.
For greater safety and profits, a dealer might do better burying a tank, buying in bulk and distributing from a hand pump.
You could make a decent living this way and never see rural electric service until the New Deal of the Thirties.
"You can use this pipe to top up the air".
Oh, and if you don't have batteries you'll need the "whistle to attract attention" as well, of course..
Pfft. A breath of fresh air (etc etc).
Insert
Watching the video, I thought, "great, a jackhammer that drives around."
Still, it's a cool idea, especially if you build something like an exercise-bike powered air compressor. If filling the whole tank this way is too much work, you could use it to put a few psi in the tank.
My grandmother used anecdotal evidence all the time, and she lived to be 120 years old.
The real beauty (okay, there are several) in the air-car is in its relation to intermittent sources of energy.
That is, compressed air is a pretty reasonable storage mechanism for solar or wind energy. Also, for excess grid energy at night, when we ramp down some baseload power generators. When the wind goes down, you stop compressing as much. Comes up, compress some more. As long as you have enough wind over enough time, it averages out. Beautiful.
The dream of the battery-electric car is that the owners will plug in at night to recharge their batteries. A home with an air compressor, where an unfilled air tank is permanently mounted, and charges, based upon pricing signals from the power company, would be even better.
Plus, the larger on-the-road compressed vendors (gas stations) would also be getting compress/no-compress signals from the power company. This ability for a major consumer to follow the load, near instantly, should make electrical engineers giddy.
There is a patent that explains how to radically increase the efficiency of compressed air energy storage.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5832728/description.html
The key it to preserve the heat energy of compression. Most air compressors have multiple stages and cool the air in-between stages. This throws away a lot of useful energy, but they do it because otherwise the compressed air would be hot enough to melt iron.
There is a simple solution. Use wet air. The heat energy of compression is used to change the sate of water from liquid to steam. The resulting temperature of the steam/air mix is low enough for safe and easy storage in insulated pressure vessels. Whether air expands in the engine (or because of a leak in the pressure vessel), the steam returns to harmless water.
A combines steam air engine is vastly more efficient than air alone! Steam Punk indeed.
Having read TFA, and following the link at the end to the manufacturer's site and reading up on the technical details of the vehicle, I'm more than a little daunted by the possibility of air tanks under 4500psi of pressure failing while I'm inside the vehicle. I read their claims that the carbon-fiber technology used to create the tanks makes them safe, but I'm having a hard time accepting that having air under that much pressure released (worst case scenario) all at once isn't going to injure me in some new and interesting way, and I'm certainly not down with the idea that any chunk of matter propelled by that much pressure is not going to cause greivous harm to my person. As a possible example of such (although it may not be a fair example), has anyone seen the episode of Mythbusters where they explored whether or not a welding tank could propel itself through a wall made of concrete blocks, if the valve was broken off the top of the tank? Granted those were steel welding tanks and not carbon-fiber, but there's a serious amount of force involved there. I'm not trying to say EVERYBODY PANIC! and put them off the technology -- I think it would be a great thing to have, if practical -- but I would be foolish to not be leery of a scary amount of pressure being used in essentially a confined space.
There would be no competition for producing compressed air if there is no profit in producing compressed air.
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
I dunno about you, but in the first video I heard a very definite "jackhammer" sound. Not only that, the engineer was obviously defensive when asked about noise. "no, really, it's not loud, it only seems that way; it's different! People just need to learn to get used to it."
Yeah, it's got a noise problem.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
I have been seeing stories on the compressed air car for what feels like at least six years now, roll the GD thing out and SHOW the world or STFU and get a life you j@cktards
- It doesn't require huge amounts of scarce/toxic materials for the energy storage device.
- It doesn't need to convert electrical power to mechanical. Turn the valve and mechanical power is right there.
- If strong enough materials are used, the storage means should be lighter per joule stored.
Otoh, everybody has a source of as much electricity as they want already in their homes while most folks would need to use that electricity or some form of carbon fuels to get compressed air.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
Never been to India, huh? Traffic is almost always so bad that sometimes it's faster to just get out of the car or auto and walk. Even when the roads are empty, their ancient Ambassador cars (some brand whose design hasn't changed in 40 years) can't go much faster than about 35mph without feeling like they are going to fall apart. I think (hope) this will be a huge hit in India.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
In most Slavic languages, including Russian and Polish "Tata" means "dad"... Now matter how good the car/product is, giving it a stupid name (at least in this part of the world) isn't going to do you any favours. See also: GIMP
Not so true in the United States (at least where I live). Here, the posted speed limits are based on politics, or sometimes, based on a single unfortunate incident that happened decades ago. Our roads and highways are often engineered for much higher speeds than posted. This creates a continuous disconnect between theory and reality, since drivers often drive the speed that feels safe, which means they often drive the engineered speed. My own personal rule of thumb is to drive about 5 MPH over the posted speed, and honestly I get really ticked off if I'm stuck behind somebody not doing likewise.
I've heard it said that speed limits are supposed to be re-evaluated periodically, and raised if the majority of drivers are exceeding them. That doesn't happen, suggesting to me that either the powers-that-be enforce their own upper bound, or the whole idea is just an urban legend.
RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
Actually, I would not mind this type of car getting popular, since it would lower the air and noise pollution in crammed cities quite considerably.
Lower air pollution? This thing runs on air! Imagine all this air released into the air. *Shivers*
Speaking as a full time Portlander, I emphatically disagree. The hills here might be a problem. The speed? You would just have to put some thought into which streets to use. Thought that any of the many folks already buying vehicles at ecomotion is engaging in already. I live in inner southeast, where traffic calming measures can be found on about thirty percent of streets and where traffic is generally pretty light. Would this work on Macadam or MLK? Probably not.
Today.
But it's worth remembering that vehicles like this may become far more viable if local governments decide to accommodate them by ensuring rights of way that they can use from one end of town to another. And given that our new mayor is our former traffic commissioner and an active bike commuter, and that Portland's government is well aware that it is economically important to us to keep being a leading edge city for transit measures, we could well see, say, se 17th, converted to a lower speed street. Or ne 15th declared only for low speed or mass transit vehicles. Or any number of variants.
I'm not going to subject /. to dozens of Portland-specific options. I just want to make the point that instead of asking if such vehicles can sufficiently adapt to our roads, we may want to ask about the likelihood that our roads will be adapted to such vehicles. Given that traffic calming, HOV lanes, pedestrian malls, dedicated rights of way for mass transit, and a slew of other repurposings of streets have been happening all across America, let's remember that the current nature of our streets is neither immutable nor necessarily the best choice for the public interest. Among other things, such dedicated rights of way would address, at least partially, the concern that low-speed, environmentally sound vehicles aren't as suited to a crash with huge, heavy petrochemical-burning monstrosities like Hummers.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
...but not for this particular car. It looks way too gay to fly even in France.. :)
But yes, in Finland microcars have become common lately. They've got an engine with max 4kW output, can weigh at most 350kg and have a mandated top-speed of 45km/h. These are a special class of vehicle, created for people between 15-18 years of age (18 is the legal minimum age for a 'real car' licence) and for inner cities.
Now, with, say, three tanks, an already existing microcar frame (for example: http://www.autowiki.fi/index.php/Kuva:Aixam_Light_Quadricycle.jpg ) and air-powered drive-train, these could become the hottest thing since mopeds.
I thought the Brits went metric a long time ago?
thegodmovie.com - watch it
Not for road distances or for beer measures (although all other pub measures are in cl now).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
You have concisely outlined here why oil is such a fantastic energy source. The stored potential energy in a tank of fuel is enormous, the ease by which it is transported is unprecedented in all our technology.
Fancy alternatives all fail at these incredibly important factors which add up to why we use oil. Personally I believe the best solution to our dirty energy problems is to make carbon neutral oil and use that. Its energy intensive to do but oil is so damn useful, and to hell with the current fads.
Fellow San Diegan here, and I concur: UTC is a royal pain to negotiate, especially in the afternoon. I'd just as soon walk, but sometimes I'm forced drive an 18-wheeler there. Talk about headaches.
This ain't rocket surgery.
Saginaw Ave, Lansing MI. 4 lanes, plus a left turn lane. Something like 10 miles of road, 25 MPH. What a shitty city.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
In the U.S., the speed limit is supposed to be set to the 85th percentile of drivers as measured over a period of several months. So if 85% of drivers travel a road segment at 80mph or less (a typical highway speed if traffic is not heavy), then the speed limit is supposed to be set at 80mph. Statistics buffs will notice that 85% is about one standard deviation.
However, since the federal government will withhold highway maintenance funds for any state with a speed limit not equal to 70mph, the highway speed limit is unchanged. The 85th percentile speed is significantly above the posted limit in nearly every state in the U.S., and modern cars are far safer st these speeds than older vehicles.
In practice, local and interstate speed limits are set by politics only. This goes doubly true for any area with speed cameras.
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In the 1890s, high-pressure steam, electricity and compressed air weren't available outside the biggest cities, at any price.
In 2008, it is still hard to see how you make the "alternative fuel" available, attractive and affordable outside the urban core.
The New York Times posted a story on the revival of the Erie Barge Canal:
The canal still remains the most fuel-efficient way to ship goods between the East Coast and the upper Midwest. One gallon of diesel pulls one ton of cargo 59 miles by truck, 202 miles by train and 514 miles by canal barge. A single barge can carry 3,000 tons, enough to replace 100 trucks. Hints of Comeback for Nation's First Superhighway
Most go karts go MUCH quicker than 28mph...
If you mean hazard lights, then just say 'hazard lights' and we will know what you are talking about, no need for the esoteric corporate buzz words.
At first I thought you were being sarcastic. Now I don't so...
Everywhere I have lived (up and down the east coast of the U.S.), we called those lights blinkers OR turn-signals. We only call them hazard lights when both the left and right are on (indicating a hazard). I haven't, until now, considered the term esoteric.
Then again I've stood in a line, but never in a queue...
Electricity is not trivial nor efficient to store, so far the best we can do is pump a bunch of water up on top of a hill. That is literally the most efficient way to store energy in terms of electricity. Compressed steam and air are also non trivial to store and less space efficient than oil.
You cant charge batteries at the rate oils can be pumped, you cant store enough energy in a tank of air to rival a sloshing tank of oils at attmospheric pressure. Oils for better or worse are the most versatile form of energy transportation we have. Why is the notion of carbbon neutral fuels so off putting to everyone?
Where are you? The usual in-city speed limit here is 31 mph (50kph).
I've seen two major types of urban design pattern here in Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA, population ca. 200,000
Uh huh, and as we all know, every place in the world is just like Fort Wayne, IN.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
Well that info works for here in Toledo Ohio too then. Most roads in the city are around 35 to 40 mph. Right in front of my house is 25 because it is a cluster of houses for about 5 or 6 blocks ahead and 2 or 3 behind. In front of the park by me it is 35mph.
hello
...so you can shoot yourself after 15 minutes of hearing that air-compressor like noise.
However, since the federal government will withhold highway maintenance funds for any state with a speed limit not equal to 70mph, the highway speed limit is unchanged.
No. There used to be a limit of 55 mph, but was repealed in 1995. The original reasoning was to limit gas usage during the fuel crisis of the '70s, and at some point also picked up a safety aspect.
Gas usage is probably correct, though a lot depends on engine tuning and the effects of drafting. With modern direct injection and variable valve timing, the difference isn't as clear as it used to be.
Safety is completely erroneous. Despite Ralph Nader's warning that "history will never forgive Congress for this assault on the sanctity of human life", safety has actually improved. As a corollary, the unrestricted German Autobahn has a better safety record than most European nations, though this isn't entirely comparable to the US due to higher standards of licensing and regular car maintenance.
Not a typewriter
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The Erie Canal begins with water at the top of hill - above Niagara Falls.
In 1825, and for a century after, the canal was both cheap transportation and a hydro-powered light industrial corridor across rural upstate New York.
Clearly you haven't seen West Australians trying to merge.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
a jack hammer! if the speed issue doesn't kill it over here in the us then the noise ordinances will.
seriously, if I heard one of those things go by my street at 2am, I'd find it and flip it.
485 pounds...lmao, soda machines weigh more..
other than those two little issues (and the ginormous front and rear windows that offer no protection), it's not too bad. reminds me of something I'd see at disney near space mountain..
and personally I'd ease up and shove one of these little annoyances out of my way.
I was taking you seriously on your other comment, but now I'm wondering if you are just an Internet Tough Guy(TM)
The speed limits in and around atlanta are a "suggestion", usually 10 mph under the real speed in practice, assuming no gridlock. (Because the city doesn't use a planned pattern, there are always clear streets for the knowledgeable).
As such, there are small, suspicious marks along the highway. Scientists from GA tech are doing research on it, and preliminary findings indicate these marks are the only evidence left of the existence of law abiding drivers crushed by speeders. (Speeders don't do it intentionally, they simply move too fast to notice them)
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
yes, you can refuel at home... but you both know that you won't always be near home...
Onda Technology Institute
According to this month's german ADAC automobil club magazine, 40% of all cars in 1901 where running on electric power.
molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
No, speed limits are set to generate revenue.. otherwise they wouldn't be set lower than they should.
http://trb.org/publications/nchrp/nchrp_rpt_504.pdf
Ya, I imagine its difficult to drive any faster than 28MPH when you have moneys and cows constantly littering the road.
In this response you said:
"My own personal rule of thumb is to drive about 5 MPH over the posted speed, and honestly I get really ticked off if I'm stuck behind somebody not doing likewise."
Earlier though you said:
"I drive a small car, and keep the speed down"
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=595159&cid=23940399
In common useage driving 5 mph over the speed limit and harassing responsible people going slower is not "keep(ing) the speed down" it's called speeding and behaving like an overly aggressive yuppie douchebag.
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
Sorry, I should have replied more directly to you. I agree with the canals idea, seems like a very good one. Of course for me as an Australian in a country of near permanent drought, its not so much an option on the table.
Like many other announcments and promises of production by MDI, the Mexico taxis weren't built. Neither were the AirCats that were to be produced by Zero Pollution Motors in South Africa.
Lots of hype. No deliveries. It's been that way for the last 8 years.