Multiple Upcoming Games, Movies Based On Jordan's Wheel of Time

Today film studio Red Eagle Entertainment announced plans to establish Red Eagle Games, a studio that will produce games based on Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. The games will be developed alongside movie adaptations of the series, which Red Eagle announced a few months ago. They'll be working with Universal on the films. "[Red Eagle producer Rick] Selvage said in an interview that the game company will make a series of games that will be co-launched with the movies. In addition, Red Eagle Games will make a massively multiplayer online game based on the Wheel of Time universe." Wheel of Time fan site 'Dragonmount' recently spoke with Selvage about the movie plans.

Comments

But Can They Do It Justice?

[eldavojohn]

I am surprised as I haven't been following this news since Jordan's death. I will say I am excited as I picked up Eye of the World for a quarter at a used bookstore in high school. I've been a huge fan ever since but have often wondered if there is any possible way a game or movie can do this series justice.

Wheel of Time has such extensive (sometimes laboriously so) plot lines running in tandem and across multiple characters that may not cross for thousands of pages. Can this be set in film successfully? The introspection of the characters when you're seeing things from their points of view ... the political games ... the extensive dream sequences ... keeping the dream world and waygates straight ... so much they could get wrong!

In truth, I wondered the same of George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire & Ice series recently licensed by HBO. I guess we'll see if they can do that series justice as well.

As for the games, I was a bit disappointed with the 1999 version which was basically a Hexen engine playing as an Aes Sedai in one of the Ajahs. A visually pleasing game, though. I certainly hope they do better with The Wheel of Time MMOs & don't dish me another buggy clone like Lord of the Rings or Warhammer.

Red Eagle & Universal, please don't screw this up! Disclaimer: I am a Perrin fan.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[sqlrob]

I remember reading a review of the demo, apparently of someone who hadn't read the books. "Pretty fog effects. Why am I taking damage?" This was in Shadar Logoth. When I played, the reaction was slightly different - "Fog? RUN!!!!".

This game was why I got a 3D accelerator, but it was delayed many, many times. Fun, I finished it, but nothing memorable.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Verteiron]

The single-player mode of the old WoT game was well-scripted and made good use of effects, but was not otherwise particularly memorable (except for Shadar Logoth, which was creepy as hell and scared me multiple times). The MULTI-player, though... incredible. There was an insane amount of depth to it, because everything (except balefire of course) had a counter. The "TING" sound of a Seeker or Decay locking on to me still makes me twitch. When you'd hear it, you'd start running like mad, trying to find the right shield to absorb it, or better yet, reflect it back at the caster, and all the while it was chasing you, moving faster and faster... then you found someone dropped a Legion right on top of the Unravel. GAH!

Good times.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[SeekerDarksteel]

What would be interesting is if they actually utilized the idea of the recurrence of ages as a game mechanic. Somehow have events setup that players can declare themselves to be "the dragon", and if they're successful at doing something they turn out to be the real dragon, initiating a global conflict and leading into the next age.

Somehow I doubt they'd do that though. :(

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[nschubach]

I certainly hope they do better with The Wheel of Time MMOs & don't dish me another buggy clone like Lord of the Rings or Warhammer

You can hope all you like, but it's not going to happen. I'm firmly under the belief that all MMOs for the near future will be cookie cutter clones of each other. They will all attempt to drag out the game for as long as possible with needless time sinks, poor stories, even worse level curves, maps made for the quick jaunt in and out, porting all over the land, and prefab classes with prefab progression.

Hate to be a cynic... but it's what I've seen going through 20 (or more) different MMOs looking for one that's different. So far it's been a waste of time and money. I'd be very surprised to see one in the near future that actually tries to break the common mold.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[butalearner]

Honestly, if they try to turn the book's events into a game, it will probably tank, as per usual. RJ was painfully meticulous in his description of events in the book, and developing a game within such strict limitations will not succeed, at least not with the fans who've read the series on multiple occasions.

What they should really do is set a game earlier than what is described in detail in the books, say when one of the false dragons was around. That way there is plenty of conflict, but the game designers have much more leeway on the events and story in the game.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Grimbleton]

Ultima Online 3

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Grimbleton]

LESS THAN THREE

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Miseph]

Or, even better, run each Age for one year. Give a certain number of random players the potential to become the Dragon, but don't tell anyone who they are, ESPECIALLY the people who might be. Players who are in at the beginning of the Age have a better chance of being the Dragon, ta'veren (although I suppose it would also make sense if ALL players were ta'veren), or at least having some special plot role (ie. they could end up like Moirraine, finding the Dragon or other key players by virtue of their awesomeness), but players who join in partway through benefit from a world which is less of a clusterfuck in terms of nobody having any clue what the hell is happening and being able to just drop in on whatever side they like and have at the powers that be.

Obviously, certain things would have to be put into the game to ensure a given Age goes off interestingly, like reliable ways for people to find the Dragon (or at least potential Dragons), compelling incentives to form in-game factions to support Dragons and ta'veren, and ways to ensure that the "randomly" selected players are unlikely to simply fall off of the planet's face.

I'd also be a big fan of a full reset at the beginning of each age, perhaps with perks given to previous high-level characters, but nothing that cannot be overcome by a talented newcomer. of course, I also just get sick of the perpetual suck of not being one of the first hundred people to sign on and always getting stomped by people who will always be bigger and badder just because they've been around longer.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Anonymous Coward]

FFXI is quite different from any other MMO, in my experience.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ug Perrin sucks. I find his sections the most boring of all.

But I agree, will it do them justice?

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[JosKarith]

Kind of suitable for an MMO - none of those have an end either...
Though you can guarantee that the incredible depth of detail that draws in Robert's fans will be lost - there's just no way that could be transferred.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Jesus_666]

As for the games, I was a bit disappointed with the 1999 version [gamespot.com] which was basically a Hexen engine playing as an Aes Sedai in one of the Ajahs.

It was essentially an Unreal engine game playing a woman the Aes Sedai normally wouldn't hafe left within 50 feet of their tower. It wasn't bad gameplay-wise but the whole concept of myriads of single-use Ter'Angreal randomly scattered around was, well, completely contrary to established lore. And, of course, the game didn't quite capture the spirit of the books, but in order to d that the player character would have to be an internal monologue fetishist.

Character internal monologue: "Could this be? Have they really betrayed me? I must blah blah blah..."
Player internal monologue: "No! Cutscene right before I could grab that Balefire! I'm so going to fry what's-his-name's ass for that!"

Well, at least the character's monologue would've fit the mood.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[MoeDrippins]

Serious question; different than what? What are you using for a basis?

I started with EQ and been around most of them since then and haven't found anything to keep me going. But, I'm old, and family and real life keeps me busy, so it might not be the games themselves so much as my context.

I, like you it seems, keep looking however.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[nschubach]

You mean besides the grinding of strange looking beasts outside of town for hours on end?

That's all I remember of FFXI. Well, that and having to live in the auction house, buy all kinds of crap for your mostly useless apartment instance where you sit around for hours on end "synthesizing" stuff. I won't even get into the the fact that it's written around the console controls which makes playing on the PC mind numbing at times, but oh... it does have the standard go kill 300 of those things that look like crocodiles quests. On top of that, it's your typical zero fun until X level when they give you something that should have been in the game from level 1. Yeah, I played it. I believe I got to around level 20 or so before I got so mind numbingly bored with the repetitiveness of it all.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[nschubach]

EQ was my first. I spent years in the world and it never got old. The classes all had purpose, the spells all didn't. (minor illusion was the best, right next to the mages ability to summon things for their pets and fireworks.) Night was actually dark, you could see what a mob was carrying, drive by buffs were the best present anyone could offer...

Not to mention, EQ had dungeons worth going into. They were not easy to get into, nor easy to get out of. As much as everyone hated trains, everyone knew to get out of the way when they were coming. (And there was a way out. Not all the dungeons were linear roller coaster rides with only one path.)

In the early days of EQ, Fine Steel was where it was at. You were lucky to get Combine stuff. There's just so much that I remember about EQ and so much I forget about all these other MMOs that keep popping up.

Oh, and Faction! Being able to align with the gnolls and visit their merchant. It was a minor victory to be sure, but it was an option.

So much of that game was memorable. You will probably say it was because it was my first MMO, but it was more than that though. It was more than any one single player RPG ever was.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[s_p_oneil]

I agree, and I think the multiple plot lines would work better as a TV series than a movie. The story and character development is already laid out, and each episode could focus on a different character. Regarding movies, IMO they should split each book up into multiple movies. It would be a lot easier to do it justice, and the more justice they do it, the more people will want to pay to see them all (and to own them on DVD), so it could be a huge money-maker.

Imagine how much more money the LOTR movies would've made if they'd split them into six normal length movies. Most people I know who watched them got bored with them simply because they were too long. With six normal-length movies, they wouldn't have had to cut so much from the movie versions, the experience in the theater would've been more enjoyable, and a lot of people would've paid for all six.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Huggs]

I found, and forgive me for bringing up a potentially sore subject, that the original Star Wars Galaxies (pre NGE, think 3-4 years ago) was an amazing MMO engine. The professions, crafting, and player housing systems were far more intricate than cookie cutter designs used today (which, for all intents and purposes, are based on WOW). Not to mention that most other MMOs don't even HAVE player housing available.

Sure, there were inconsistencies in the SWG story line as compared to the books/movies, but out of all the MMOs I've played trying to fill the hole that SWG filled, I haven't found anything that compares. So, for some reason, I'm playing WOW... o.O

I will say, I was quite disappointed with the LotR MMO being a WOW clone. I played it during beta, but didn't find it worth continuing. I hate to say, and am not sure I want to think about this, but I fear that the new SWtOR MMO, isn't going to be much different. Then again, BioWare has a history of great games. I digress...

I give props to those designers who think for themselves, and try new ideas and concepts! Break from the oppressive mold of cookie cutter thinking!!

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Metasquares]

They could actually work false Dragons in as well if they did it right. Could lead to some interesting large-scale PvP events as players rally behind them.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Anonymous Coward]

This would be awesome. Like Jedi's in Star Wars Galaxies. Nothing could go wrong.

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[MoeDrippins]

Agree completely. I went back to EQ a couple times, but couldn't handle the lack of people in all the classic zones I remember so well. =(

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[ultranova]

What they should really do is set a game earlier than what is described in detail in the books, say when one of the false dragons was around. That way there is plenty of conflict, but the game designers have much more leeway on the events and story in the game.

Or set it during the War of Power. You must lead your unit during the war; then, when the Dark One is imprisoned and the Breaking of the World begins, it becomes a desperate race to safe as much of the civilization as possible before it's destroyed by the maddened Aes Sedai. Slashdot archives must not perish !

Or make it "Populous: the Dark Side" - you play the Dark One and need to sow as much destruction as possible to feed your power, break free, and remake the world. I wonder what Jack Thompson would say about a game where you do get points for rape and murder ?-)

Re:But Can They Do It Justice?

[Miseph]

That's the idea of having multiple potential Dragons: as each gets closer to actually meeting all the criteria, larger and larger PvP events become necessary to determine which one is real (ie. the winner of the ensuing PvP wars) and which ones are false (ie. all of the ones who lost said wars).

Of course, having some characters give every appearance of being the dragon while not actually having the potential could also make it interesting; especially if they did something silly like eliminate all of the possible true Dragons and tried to fight in Tarmon Gaidon...

Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[negRo_slim]

Red Eagle Games will make a massively multiplayer online game based on the Wheel of Time universe.

Because if there's anything the PC gaming market really needs, it's another MMO.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Ethanol-fueled]

Because if there's anything the PC gaming market really needs, it's another MMO.

Because if there's anything the entertainment market really needs, it's finding and raping every good idea which hasn't already been milked and strangled to death. At least we can look forward to a few Twin Peaks sequels!

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[PotatoFarmer]

On the other hand, can you think of any other book series so perfectly suited to the MMO genre? At least the developers can claim that the endless grinding through repetitive content, thousands of minor characters nobody cares about, and people constantly coming back after being killed is true to the source material.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Anonymous Coward]

What the PC gaming market needs is a *good* MMO.

Not another WoW clone.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen. I'm fucking sick of people, developers and gamers alike, who just naturally assume that MMOG = EverQuest/WoW-derivative. There are dozens of unique possibilities for MMORPGs that have not been adequately explored. Don't blame the "MMO" format for lack of creativity.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Anonymous Coward]

The series that comes to my mind is Steven Erikson's Malazan books....he and Esselmont apparently developed the setting as a D&D environment and then wrote the books...btw, I gave up on both Jordons and GRRMartins series a long time ago, Jordons because it was boringly repetitive and Martins because he just cant seem to write or finish the books.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Again]

Hey, I love every single one of the books. For me, there is nothing as sad as the end of a story.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if those are the criteria for an MMO franchise, Fred Saberhagen's Swords novels would be a good basis for a new MMO as well. Though Piers Anthony's Xanth series would be long overdue as well. Well, not counting the people constantly coming back after being killed bit.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[ShakaUVM]

>>we can look forward to a few Twin Peaks sequels!

Or a Twin Peaks MMORPG.

Hmm.

Couldn't be any more horrendous than the current crops of MMORPGs.

IMO, what made the old school MUDs better than MMORPGs is that players (when they hit a certain level) were oftentimes allowed to make new dungeons. So as your playerbase went up, so did the amount of content available. It's an idea that I'd love to see get transferred to one of the major MMOs.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[MadMidnightBomber]

, Nynaeve sniffed.

AAAARRRRGH!

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Jesus_666]

We need an MMORPG about MMORPGs. You play an MMORPG designer and you have to find MMORPGable franchises and MMORPG them. Yes, I just turned "MMORPG" into a verb. Other players could play the QA department and the publishers, whose job is to stem the tide of generic MMORPGs and only let through those MMORPGs which are MMORPG enough (yes, also an adjective).

The final goal in he game is to realize that the game you're playing would never have made it to market inside the game.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Jesus_666]

I really hope there's going to be a "pull braid" emote, and of course "don't understand other gender". If they want to be really adventurous, high-level players might even get "pull braid (other person)", although that's a pretty bold interpreteation of established lore.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Rosy At Random]

Yes, but you do have to have some standards as to what constitutes 'story'. For one thing, _something relevant_ to the storyline has to occur. There are at least 2 WoT books which might as well just have been the characters discussing what the clouds looked like.

The 1st 3 books were good. After that, it's diminishing returns - each book takes longer to do less, so that by the end we're barely getting a chapter's worth.

Then what does he do?

He writes, IIRC, a decent last book that finally goes somewhere and sets up a good conclusion... then pisses about with retellings of previous books and up and dies. Very unprofessional.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[dieth]

FFXI has hinted a few times at giving us Player Created Dungeons, but as of yet nothing so far.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[mdm-adph]

User-created content in a modern video game? What, and let some user rip off some company's IP for use in their content, and thus letting the game designer get potentially sued? (Yes, I know the DMCA protects them, but even a frivolous lawsuit could cost money/image.)

They're having this problem in the new game "LittleBigPlanet" right now, from what I hear.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[mmkkbb]

You mean like MMORPG Tycoon?

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Kam Solusar]

Maybe Matthew Stover's Caine novels?

22nd century actors are sent to a fantasy world (called Overworld) where wizards, knights, gods and all kind of other fantasy stuff exists, while viewers on earth watch their adventures through the actors' eyes. So it's a fantasy world mixed with a bit of sci-fi technology, and unlike most other popular fantasy novels, it's pretty dark, violent and bloody.

So there's a huge open world to explore and the books have already established that the actors go on adventures (arranged by the studio on earth) that are set in a certain place where actors have to do certain things (search a treasure, fight an evil enemy, murder the king), which fits very well into a quest-based MMO.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[dougmc]

Because if there's anything the PC gaming market really needs, it's another MMO.

Well, yes and no.

Yes, there's plenty of MMOs out there. However, none of them are making me rich. So, yes, I see room for at least one more MMO, as long as it's the right one that meets the right criterea (making me rich.)

Alas, since I'm not making any MMOs, including this one, it seems unlikely that this one will be the right one, or that the right one is coming any time soon. A pity.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[mungtor]

Except for the killing part, that's exactly how my diary would read.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[ShakaUVM]

>>User-created content in a modern video game? What, and let some user rip off some company's IP for use in their content, and thus letting the game designer get potentially sued?

I should note that user-ripped-off-company-IPs, also known as "mods" have been rather popular with the young whippersnappers in the last 10 years. With the companies too.

While I think someone should sue over the travesty that is the user-mod-cum-official-mod Counterstrike, I don't believe anyone has. (And that's more because the mod sucks balls, rather than because I'm offended at its portrayal of terrorists or something.)

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Specter]

Bah! It will be comically shallow unless I'm able to repeatedly smooth my skirts. You should probably be able to take multiple levels of skirt smoothing.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[ultranova]

IMO, what made the old school MUDs better than MMORPGs is that players (when they hit a certain level) were oftentimes allowed to make new dungeons. So as your playerbase went up, so did the amount of content available. It's an idea that I'd love to see get transferred to one of the major MMOs.

It's not going to happen. Having user-generated content risks some of it not being kid-friendly. Remember the hubalaloo about Hot Coffee ? Can't risk someone making a quest about retrieving the Seed of Fertility from Penis Mountain and delivering it to the Sacred Eggs in the Vagina Caverns. Not unless you want to risk facing the Guardians of Morality - their Moral Panic Incite is a terrifying special ability indeed. And I heard there's an even darker figure, a shadowy demagogue, behind them.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[ShakaUVM]

Depends how it's done. If you consider games like Team Fortress to be a form of an MMO (especially if you have cross server stats tracking and a sort of XP system), then all the user created mods and maps have not only not caused a moral panic (even with maps like 2girls, where you shoot rocket launchers out of the front door/vagina) but have contributed greatly to the ongoing popularity of the games.

Even the MUDs I played on had a sort of vetting process before they'd be linked in to the main world. It's not unreasonable to assume that Blizzard could spent a percentage of the silo of gold they're swimming around in to hire some gamers to, you know, play games. Further, you'd just add the disclaimer that user-created stuff isn't rated by the ESRB.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[Simon Brooke]

Hey, I love every single one of the books. For me, there is nothing as sad as the end of a story.

That's definitely a reason for reading Jordan, then. Ten huge volumes (before I gave up) and no bloody character development at all! Excellent setting, shame about the (lack of) narrative progress.

At least now he's dead the story does end... in a way.

Re:Realm: Moonrunner Char: Mithrilvar

[__aawkdb2598]

This deserves a +5, "Pure Genius" :D

Q: Will they run on Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

A: No.

Loot The Corpse!!!

[Kintanon]

Jordan is barely even cold, the 13th book hasn't been published yet, and everyone is already clambering to get wrist deep into his creative work and exploit it.

FREAKING AWESOME. I will joyously see every movie about the series no matter what kind of steaming pile they are. I'll probably buy most of the games too. Probably not the MMORPG though...

Re:Loot The Corpse!!!

[decipher_saint]

FREAKING AWESOME. I will joyously see every movie about the series no matter what kind of steaming pile they are. I'll probably buy most of the games too. Probably not the MMORPG though...

That's the kind of thinking that leads to a wisecracking CG animated Jamaican sidekick to a newly midichlorian fuelled Rand al'Thor.

Re:Loot The Corpse!!!

[jjohnson]

Oh please. By the fifth book, Jordan was already wrist deep in skullfucking his own creative property by recycling storylines and padding word counts with endless descriptions of wardrobe. They're doing nothing but carrying on a tradition Jordan started himself.

Re:Loot The Corpse!!!

[geekoid]

UM, he was all abut exploiting the work for money, this is exactly what he would have done.

It's the Zelazny estate that gave the big FU to the creator.

Re:Loot The Corpse!!!

[edward2020]

What did Zelazny's estate do?

Re:Loot The Corpse!!!

[Abcd1234]

wrist deep in skullfucking

Umm... I'm pretty sure that's not how skullfucking works...

Re:Loot The Corpse!!!

[dwye]

> What did Zelazny's estate do?

Authorize a prequel to The Amber Chronicles, to be written by a less talented author.

Some people view this as rape, as the South Park writers do Star Wars Episodes 1-3.

Those people need to be raped to death in a very public manner, however, as their mindless fanboyism needs to be eliminated from the both gene pool and the meme pool.

Besides, it is not like they did a prequel to Lord Of Light, or Creatures Of Light And Darkness, or a sequel to the Dilvish series. That *would* be rape.

Re:Loot The Corpse!!!

[jjohnson]

Pffft. Maybe not the way you do it, amateur.

Re:Loot The Corpse!!!

[ultranova]

That's the kind of thinking that leads to a wisecracking CG animated Jamaican sidekick to a newly midichlorian fuelled Rand al'Thor.

Ba'alzamon is actually Rand's father, and in the final fight throws the Dark One into the Pit of Doom ?-)

And Mat shot first.

Featuring

[Arramol]

Featuring exciting braid-pulling and skirt-smoothing mini-games!

Re:Featuring

[chromatic]

Multiple WarioWare incarnations already having covered sniffing in detail....

Re:Featuring

[hansamurai]

Ugh, you make me want to knuckle my forehead. Blood and bloody ashes.

Re:Featuring

[Jesus_666]

I want to see the character creator. 300 different hair styles, all of which would get you executed in Seanchan territory! 1 different Aes Sedai botox-face! Amazing fun!

How Many Movies?!?!

[aplato]

I wonder how many movies there are going to be? Hopefully I'm still alive when the last one comes out(if they ever wrap the series).

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[butalearner]

Considering that books 6-10 describe what happens over a span of about 3 days, there won't need to be nearly so many movies.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hm... The Lord of the Rings turned into three movies (one for each book). So in that case ca. 3 hours movie out of 300 pages of the book.

In comparison the Wheel of Time consists of 12 books (13th coming sometime?) each with roughly 600-1000 pages IIRC.

So if 100pages = 1hour, we'll get (600-1000) * 12 / 100 = 72-120 hours of movies?

Or roughly the Lord of the Rings movies times twelve...

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[ronwolf]

You're kidding right? Most of those later books can be compressed into about 14 paragraphs.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Random BedHead Ed]

I wonder how many movies there are going to be? Hopefully I'm still alive when the last one comes out(if they ever wrap the series).

They'll probably start out with a clear story arc and a plan to make six or seven very good films that wow audiences, then just belt out a few extra ones that focus largely on minor characters that viewers don't care about while ignoring the compelling story that got everyone interested in the first place. Universal will then go out of business when there's only one movie left to make, and Paramount will take over and expect us all to believe their conclusion is a valid part of the series.

(If you can't decide whether to mod this funny, mod it insightful or just stomp off and cry into your pile of dead-end hardcovers, you must be a disgruntled Robert Jordan fan.)

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[LandDolphin]

Hmm.. 3 days.. Well, that is 72 hours. Can make quite a few movies to cover 72 hours.

There is a lot that goes on in those 3 days, and if the movies are going ot be any good, they need to cover all of the details.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[popeye44]

Well as I did have mod points for this I still decided to respond..

You are right in that the story seemed to stop for a while. However on the whole I really enjoyed it. I have read the complete series up to book 9 9 times. I basically read the whole series every time a book came out. But the last time so little was done between cleansing saidin and the marrying of Matt, Perrins story line closing somewhat that I did not read them all again. I am anxiously awaiting Brandon Sanderson's take on the final book. I have found him to be a good author.
Overall it is a compelling story with a lot of flubber in the middle.

I've always thought a serial RPG would fit this environment well. A MMORPG would be awesome if people were kept to strict guidelines as to what they could do. "Think Chaotic evil.. Saving Rand's life so he could be sacrificed to the dark one" Or Darkfriend etc. But this is a world that needs to be very structured so that things that did not happen in the book do not happen in the game. " Fain somehow wins at 3 rivers instead of perrin" However allowing fain to win the other smaller victories "turning The Ways to his side"
Anyways I'm always skeptical of anyone touching this work as it's very difficult to get Jordan's perspective into something you can feel while playing it.

I for one even being male would love to be that bitch Nynavae for a round or two haha but then I'd also dig playing Perrin and Matt both. "Rand seems a bit fucked up in the head really.. hehe"

Obviously a Matt gambling mini-game would be in order and all 3 would have high luck scores with matt's being the only random one.

So much could be done. I'd love to see a combination of Fallout 3's landscape made desert for the Aiel waste and Oblivions grown into the Steddings for forests. I know these are the same engine.. duh..
However someone like me who really likes the story and characters will be disappointed I fear. There is just too much going on to make it short and sweet.

Here's hoping they make it a kickass game with no MMORPG as i refuse to pay a subscription to play a game. I might be tempted if this was a good one. I agree that there are too many WoW wannabe's though.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[LandDolphin]

Ohh how I wish 100 pages = 1 hours. Each book being a 6-12 hours movie! at least they would have the time to do it right and not cut it to shreds.

Hell, I'd be happy if every book was at 3 hours movie. I'm afraid they are going ot cut it down to 2 hours a book, or worse, combine multiple books into one movie!

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[filthpickle]

Thanks for the laugh.

I made it thru Crown of Swords...but mainly because of being too stubborn to admit to myself that I was getting sick of it. Had to do a cross country road trip several years later and got the audiobook for Winters Heart thinking I would catch up that way...

Somewhere in Kansas in the middle of the night I decided that it was so tedious and boring that I threw it out the window in disgust. I admit that it might have had something to do with driving thru Kansas...you can't do that alone and stay sane.

I think I reached a point where I just DESPISED every female character in that book.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Architect_sasyr]

There are 11 books, 12th on the way. Everybody here seems to think there are 13. There are not. There are TWELVE. (This is bugging the hell out of me). The "New Spring" book is a prequel and is not part of the series, it was even written out of order.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Phrogman]

Ah but if they remove all the references to the female character who constantly pulls on her braids we can condense it down into just about 25 hrs of film.

I can't remember her name. But the memory of the author telling us she was fiddling with her hair every 10 sentences has remained forever in my mind as the poster child for how not to assign a recognizable characteristic to a character, then abuse it far too often.

I read the first few books and honestly wanted to like them but they were just so badly written and the characters were so flat and boring that I gave up around book 5. Matt is the only character I can recall liking a lot. Jordan seemed to just be padding them to sell more books and not getting to the meat of the story and he was an awful writer IMHO. That said, I did enjoy what I read much more than I enjoyed the Thomas Covenant books :P

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Surt]

It is a prequel, and says it is part of the wheel of time series right on the cover. Thus, the series comprises 12 books, soon 13, and I'm sure in the not to distant future, dozens of disastrously bad sequels and prequels by Herbert and Anderson.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Jabbrwokk]

True, because the rest of the book was "PREVIOUSLY, ON WHEEL OF TIME!"

I quit reading when the Winter of Whatever came out because I just didn't care anymore. I then got rid of all my books except "Eye of the World," the best in the series. Jordan should have planned and mapped out his series ahead of time, with a definitive end in mind, a la JK Rowling. Instead, his series went down the same road as Dune.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I stopped reading at book 7 and wish I had stopped after book 3.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[The FNP]

Actually, the middle books can be compressed. The first two can be compressed some, but a bunch is needed for the reader / viewer to have any idea what the hell is happening. The middle books could take out a bunch of extraneous / descriptive shit and just tell the damn story. And aside from 8, 9 and 10 having a significant chunk of Perrin wandering in the FUCKING Forests!, the later books seem to be as concise as RJ was _able_ to be. Besides whenever the 12th book finally is released, the scriptwriter can remove a big chunk of the loose ends that are inconsequential and forgotten/unresolved.

The Wheel of Time is perfectly suited to movie adaptations, because Robert Jordan could not be prevented from explaining EVERYTHING to the reader. Wardrobe, Set Design, Props, Linguistics, Choreography. All the background elements of a movie are already clearly specified. All a movie crew would have to do is follow the instructions.

And since a large portion of the text is descriptive, careful attention to detail can condense the material, while still being true to the original work.

--The FNP

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[aussie_a]

There was a definite end. It was called Tarmon Gai'den. Sheeesh.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Nasarius]

I think I reached a point where I just DESPISED every female character in that book.

That's exactly how I felt. I always got the impression that Jordan was trying to write strong female characters, but didn't have the slightest clue how one would actually behave. Instead of coming across as strong or sympathetic, they were just fucking obnoxious. And all *exactly* the same. Cadsuane (had to look up the name on Wiki) was the last straw.

Oh, and the bizarre sexual fantasy feeling to it: women spanking each other, humiliating men, and happily coexisting in a polygamous relationship.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Jabbrwokk]

I think you mean Tarmon Gai'don and it hasn't happened yet. Or HAS it!

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Bensam123]

Interesting thing about Robert Jordans books is some of the characters are actually designed to produce that sort of a reaction not only through their character in the book, but how you react to them by the way he writes about them, they're that animate.

I guess it's too real for some if the reaction you're supposed to have if you're in the setting in the book is the same as if you were actually in the setting in real life.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Grimbleton]

WoW is just an EQ wannabe.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[filthpickle]

maybe.

I was raised by a very strong-willed woman, my sister is a very strong-willed woman. I love them both. I don't have a problem with strong willed women.

there may be a reason that I am not aware of why I got sick of those books, but it isn't that I have some intrisic hatred of women that aren't pushovers.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Architect_sasyr]

Could argue semantics all week if we tried, but for the record my copy of "New Spring" has "A Wheel of Time Novel" on the cover. The 11 books (which, incidentally, have numbers on them) are written as "Book X of The Wheel of Time".

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[_Sprocket_]

Hmm.. 3 days.. Well, that is 72 hours. Can make quite a few movies to cover 72 hours.

An epic fantasy shot in the style of 24. I do not know if I should be horrified or intrigued.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Oh, and the bizarre sexual fantasy feeling to it: women spanking each other, humiliating men, and happily coexisting in a polygamous relationship.

That bothered me for a bit too, and I still find it a bit annoying - but logically, what the men in that world are facing is not so different than women face in the male-dominated real world.

And I would hardly say they're happily coexisting - rather, they don't /entirely/ like it, but also don't /entirely/ have a choice about it.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Xoron101]

I so agree with you. I really want to make it through the series, I really do, but I seriously get bored at times. When Jordan takes 2 pages to describe a scene, I just start to glaze over. Then I get distracted and.... hey look a shiny quarter. I could probably get a second hand copy of.... Oh yeah, that damn book... Best be getting back to it.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[dwarg]

I actually had that reaction to all the characters when I read the first book. I had high expectations after a glowing review by someone I mistakenly thought had good taste.

I'm sure the entire first book could be condensed down to the size of a pamphlet if you took out the constant whining by the characters about being tired, cold and hungry. I get that it's supposed to be realistic and a real adventure is going to consist of hardships, but come on! If I wanted to read hundreds of pages of whining I'd steal a teenage girls diary.

On the bright side, that's how you make a movie out of this series. After you take out all the whining you may have to create new content to fill out a basic trilogy of movies.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[tyrione]

Hmm.. 3 days.. Well, that is 72 hours. Can make quite a few movies to cover 72 hours.

An epic fantasy shot in the style of 24. I do not know if I should be horrified or intrigued.

Don't forget those commercial breaks cue-in sound effects. That would truly be the icing on the cake.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[ShakaUVM]

>>disastrously bad sequels and prequels by Herbert and Anderson.

You mean Sanderson?

Obviously AMoL isn't out yet, but every book he's written to date has been bloody brilliant.

He's not Jordan, sure. He might not use Jordan's attention to ridiculously unimportant detail, or Jordan's reuse of every plot thread multiple times, or Jordan's complete inability to handle plot and multiple viewpoints, but... oh wait, yeah. They'll probably actually be pretty good.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[LandDolphin]

IT wanted to be EQ, but they screwed up and made it fun!

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

OH you are not the only one.

Every. Single. One. of his female characters either start out as or degenerate into a:
a) crazy woman;
b) neurotic control freak;
c) clingy airhead; or
d) arrogant bitch.

Not a single woman in the WoT series can be characterised as reasonable. This is especially maddening as the three main male characters are highly sympathetic and have undergone mostly positive character development.

The character that pissed me off the most was Min, who had a promising start as a confident, knife-throwing tomboy but ends up a simpering twit in hot pants. I mean WTF?!?

It *really* makes me wonder what he thought of women in general.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

There are 11 books, 12th on the way. Everybody here seems to think there are 13.

Well, I should have known that. Sorry. I think it was because some other comment mentioned waiting for the 13th book, and it didn't seem so wrong when I read it. After posting I of course remembered (after a while) "wait... 12 books? The series is only 11." Then I sort of assumed if you counted the prequel you would get 13, but...

The "New Spring" book is a prequel and is not part of the series, it was even written out of order.

Well, I see your point. A prequel is not a part of the series, but it is a part of the story. (Sort of like how the Hobbit is not part of the Lord of the Rings, but explains certain parts of the background/story)

In conclusion; Wheel of Time is 11 main books, 1 prequel, and 1 "World of the Wheel of Time" which is an encyclopedia/history book with additional story/legends about the world (written by Robert Jordan and Teresa Patterson). And I really should have remembered it...

-grandParent AC

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[MadMidnightBomber]

s/female//

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Grimbleton]

No they didn't.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[witherstaff]

I can only hope that 'pillow-friend' is a player class in the MMORPG.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[MrZilla]

However, there has been multiple hints in the books that Tarmon Gai'don won't be the end of anything, and that all the characters will be fighting wars and whatnot after that.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Jesus_666]

I think I reached a point where I just DESPISED every female character in that book.

Yeah,but I have to say Egwene is a shining goddess compared to the other ones because she's the one Aes Sedai that's actually competent. She does deserve some respect for that. (Cadsuane, to a lesser degree, too - she simply doesn't hang around with the rest of the Aes Sedai, which might be due to her being a bit less disconnected from reality than them.)

But yeah, when you see the rest of the bunch you really wonder how those women have managed to run the continent for centuries without collectively choking to death on pretzels. And why.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[dougmc]

I never watched 24, but it seems to me that if every episode is one hour in a very long day, at some point he's going to need to sleep ...

And so there will be eight episodes where he's just snoozing during the entire thing ...

Can't wait!

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Surt]

No, I meant Anderson, as in:
http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Dune-Brian-Herbert/dp/0765312948

Sanderson might do a decent job, but when the family decides they want more money, they'll hire out the writing of books 14+ to the lowest common denominator, and trash the series.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Hillgiant]

If by "animate" you mean "crude two dimensional caricature", then I agree with you 100%.

Rather than develop his characters, Jordan seemed more interested in allowing them to slip into a near parody of their former selves and introduce even more sub-characters to personify whatever he felt the current sub-plot required.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Yunzil]

There is a lot that goes on in those 3 days, and if the movies are going ot be any good, they need to cover all of the details.

No. I mean, 90% of one of the books was just about people noticing what happened in the previous book.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[Bensam123]

I'd have to respectfully disagree. There isn't a single main character in the book which does not develop over the course of the entire series and sub characters (usually which are followers of the primary one) develop in response to the primary character.

It's a two tiered character development. It looks more like by the time you get done learning about the sub-character you forget about what it means to the primary. Perhaps that's why there are such polar opposite views on his books.

Re:How Many Movies?!?!

[ultranova]

"Think Chaotic evil.. Saving Rand's life so he could be sacrificed to the dark one"

That's Lawful Evil - or perhaps Neutral Evil, if there's a prize to it. Chaotic Evil character would say "screw the Dark One" and kill Rand, then try to push the blame on Ishamael. Or, if he were a smarter CE, he'd try to get Rand and Dark One to kill each other.

Chaotic evil doesn't want riches, positions or favour - it just wants to watch the world burn.

Loot The Copyright!!!

[Ostracus]

"Jordan is barely even cold, the 13th book hasn't been published yet, and everyone is already clambering to get wrist deep into his creative work and exploit it."

Good thing we don't have life plus 70 years so the heirs could defend his "property".

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[MaryBethP]

Wow, 13th book? And to think I was holding my breath for a 12th...

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[Surt]

Well, his heirs poisoned him precisely so that they could exploit his legacy. As soon as the final book was outlined, there really wasn't any need to keep him alive, he was just a burden on the family's potential income.

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[ISoldat53]

Will the story ever have and end?

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[cbhacking]

Presumably the parent is including New Spring (the prequel) in his count. I've personally felt for a long time that the series should be 13 books (13 being a rather significant number in the WoT universe) and was disappointed that the last book would be numbered 12 (also wondered how one book could wrap up all the open storylines AND fight Tarmon Gai'don). That said, counting New Spring it's 13 books and as long as the final book (whatever it's number) is good, I'll be satisfied. I'll need to re-read the whole thing ahead of time, though....

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[aussie_a]

There'd have been 13 books had Robert Jordan not been on his deathbed.

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[rvw14]

I looks like the final "book" may be released in 2 separate volumes. So in a way there will be 13.

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[coolsnowmen]

no, and I quote:
"...The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time."

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[ShakaUVM]

According to Ryan Dancey (one of WOTC's ex-vice presidents) when I talked to him years ago, was that Robert Jordan actually pitched the series as a series that would never end. He could just keep churning out product, and people would keep buying it, indefinitely.

Or, I guess, until he died.

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[LandDolphin]

I have not bothered to look for he quote, but I remember Jordan sayign that all fo the story lines are not going to be wrapped up at the end of the series.

Re:Loot The Copyright!!!

[cbhacking]

Interesting. Question: was that before or after he knew he wouldn't live to finish it? I mean, in a way I like having the story not end on a "and everybody dies" and leave some things still happening (and there's whole areas, like Seandar, and the lands across the Waste, that have never been visited) but on the other hand, a certain degree of closure is good. The white and black towers both need a serious internal re-organization. The Seanchan issue is hardly resolved. I could understand if not ALL Min's visions come true in the series (Aviendha having 4 kids with Rand?) but some of them...

Make another, cause the last one was so good

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/wheeloftime/tech_info.html

Yeah, the last one sucked (of course gamespot thinks it's good), so of course, they should make a new one that also sucks.

Oblig. Princess Bride

[Kemanorel]

From IMDB.

Miracle Max: Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.
Inigo Montoya: What's that?
Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change

Well, so much for hoping he was mostly dead. Didn't take them long to start trying to shake that money tree... Although, I think the movies were in the works for some time before he passed.

Does anyone still even care

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously..? I started reading the Wheel of Time many years ago, and while the first book was pretty good, subsequent books became increasingly self indulgent, whiney, and so meandering that the story barely advanced. By about book 5, most of the characters were so un-likeable that I could not longer relate to/empathize with them. This has to be one of the most dissapointing series that I have ever read.

CAPTCH: bleeder, as in "you miserable..."

Re:Does anyone still even care

[be951]

I'm with you there. Brilliantly conceived world, decent characters (to start out), but then Jordan started telling the same story over and over, and letting the characters blend together.

Although I've rarely laugh so hard from reading something as I did going through some of the Wheel of Time humor/parody sites.

Re:Does anyone still even care

[ConallB]

I nerfed my karma the last time I said something about Robert Jordan on /. so all I will say is that...

I completely agree with the parent to this reply.

I gave up reading RJ's books some time ago (also around book 5 of WOT) when it became blatantly obvious he was making it up as he went along.

The wheel of time series was one of my main reasons for giving up on the genre altogether.

Re:Does anyone still even care

[MoeDrippins]

I felt the same way. Liked the first one, each subsequent half as much as the previous one. I could see where the asymptotic curve was heading and abandoned it by book 5 or so.

Found the complete unabridged audiobooks on bittorrent somewhere and briefly flirted with the idea of getting those, but realized that was silly; it's not like they'd get better with someone else's voice and me having grown older (and hopefully somewhat more discerning).

Re:Does anyone still even care

[Jesus_666]

Although I've rarely laugh so hard from reading something as I did going through some of the Wheel of Time humor/parody sites.

Got a few links handy? I currently only remember the Rinkworks condensed versions, which were spot-on.

Re:Does anyone still even care

[Abcd1234]

The wheel of time series was one of my main reasons for giving up on the genre altogether.

You and me both. My brother managed to slog through to the bitter end, but I just couldn't do it. I believe I stopped at the point where, in the previous volume, Matt was buried under a wall, and in the next Jordan had so much shit going on that he *never got around to talking about Matt until the next book*. Honestly, if you can completely throw away a major character like that for an entire 800 page book, methinks you need to pare things down a little.

It does make one wonder, though: where the hell was his editor??

Re:Does anyone still even care

[ahsile]

His editor was his wife... If I remember correctly.

Re:Does anyone still even care

[Botched]

I came into this thread to bash the awful, awful books that RJ spewed out, but it looks like it's been done for me.

So, to be productive, here are some of the really good fantasy books from the last couple years:

The Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone series: Greg Keyes (Best fantasy series... ever? And he finished writing it!)
The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch (sequel is all right, but the first is the best)
The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss (this guy's first book, and he writes too slow! but considering the book, that must be a good thing)

Perhaps someone will read one and decide to base a game/show on damn good content, instead of coffee table weights.

Re:Does anyone still even care

[ConallB]

I believe, as the other poster put it, she was his wife and she was probably too busy swimming in all the cash, scrooge mcduck style, to care!

Cast of 1000's Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

That's about 2 and half movies just in character introductions. Maybe they'll do us a favor and rename some of the closely similar named Aes Sedai.

"Wait is this the important one that hasn't been in the book for 1000 pages? No just some generic filler one. Awesome."

There already is a game...

[Idarubicin]

It struck me as a pretty run-of-the-mill first-person shooter, with a few moderately novel weapons choices.

Link.

Closure

[teebes]

Hopefully someone will be able to bring some closure to something on some level in that series, would be a good start :)

Re:Closure

[Anonymous Coward]

Brandon Sanderson is writing the final book. He's the author of such books as ELANTRIS and the MISTBORN TRILOGY.

I think he'll do a fine job.

Re:Closure

[lilomar]

Speaking of which... the third (and last) Mistborn book just came out in hardback. If you have never read anything of Sanderson's, do yourself a favor - go out and buy the first one. Make sure you have some cash left over, though, because, if you are anything like me, you will be back in the bookstore the next day, after having stayed up all night to finish, buying the other two (and anything else of his you can get your hands on).

Mistborn is the best low-fantasy I have ever read, and it's close to the top of my best fantasy in general list.

Re:Closure

[scatters]

But it won't be the story as Robert Jordan intended it. It might be good, but the reader will never know if the conclusion is the one that the original author was steering the story towards. Still, at least it will bring to a close the longest running book series since the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Re:Closure

[spiralx]

Yes it will - RJ had already written the ending and several other key elements before he died, as well as dictate the overall plot of the book.

Karma whore time

[MadnessASAP]

Wheel of Time Mod me +1 bijillion insightful because I posted a wiki link.

But seriously, would it have killed the poster to have added a Wikipedia link to the Wheel of Time article?

Re:Karma whore time

[moderatorrater]

Wiki links are only useful when there's a chance that somebody reading the article hasn't heard of the series. I can talk to non-nerds and they still know what the series is, even if they don't know much about it.

I guess what I'm getting at is that you'll have to turn in your nerd card.

Re:Karma whore time

[Anonymous Coward]

I even met a girl once who knew what Wheel of Time was.
She was so jealous when she saw me come back with my preordered Knife Of Dreams book.

You can't finish the game

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately the game is impossible to finish, because it dynamically generates more and more new mini-games, side quests, and bosses as the player gets closer to the end.

Re:You can't finish the game

[Gideon Fubar]

There is a workaround, but it involves throwing your computer out the window.

Re:You can't finish the game

[Jabbrwokk]

C'mon mods, that was pretty funny!

Re:You can't finish the game

[CountBrass]

Hehehe. Exactly, nicely put.

Fully justified

[Jacques Chester]

All they need to do is cross WoW with something that failed, for that perfect combination of incredibly tedious bulkiness and frustrating incompletion!

how?

[skam240]

How on earth are they going to condense down as much material as is in one of those books (let alone the whole series) into a movie without leaving out half the story? The Lord of the Rings books are half the size of Jordan's and each of those movies were over three hours long and still left some good stuff out.

Re:how?

[Digital Vomit]

How on earth are they going to condense down as much material as is in one of those books

It wouldn't be hard with Book Five. Just toss out all the "Harumph! Men!" parts that repeatedly describe Nynaeve's sexism.

Damn, this one is getting a bit tough to slog through. Of course, most men would think that about Book Five..

Gah! Now I'm doing it!

Re:how?

[xstonedogx]

Easy.

Jordan goes on and on about setting. Not a problem for film.
Jordan repeats himself over and over regarding character interactions. Easily condensed.
Jordan constantly writes about his characters pulling their braids, smoothing their skirts, etc. They can all do those things at the same time while the story is moving along.
Jordan has described the internal processes of wielding the One Power a million times. In film they'll just replace it with a fancy CGI or call it "metachlorians" (credit a poster above).
Jordan thinks any character ever seen in a book needs a name. They can save about 5 hours just by not naming all their extras.
The last four or so books in the series will probably fit on a single page of the script.
And finally, Jordan didn't finish. There's a good 30 minutes out of the film right there.

Re:how?

[Anonymous Coward]

How on earth are they going to condense down as much material as is in one of those books (let alone the whole series) into a movie without leaving out half the story? The Lord of the Rings books are half the size of Jordan's and each of those movies were over three hours long and still left some good stuff out.

Easy, they take out all the pointless plot elements and threads that Jordan started and then forgot about in the next book. Also, there is a ton of inner monologue, almost all of which is women thinking about how all men are retards, or how smart women are and how men should have their ears boxed once a day on general principles (that last is nearly word-for-word). There are better ways to tell a story in movie format than with inner monologues, so that right there cuts out hours and hours.

Still, I don't think WoT movies will bear more than a passing resemblance to the books. They need to change too many of the characters' personalities or risk having a one-dimensional film. Jordan was utterly incapable of crafting a strong female character without making her into a vicious, hateful harpy, and I don't think they are going to risk making movies without a balance of character personalities. Unless the whole point of the story is fending of legions of bitchy women (which, okay, the argument could be made that that's what WoT is about), you need different types of characters.

Re:how?

[renoX]

That much material???
Each book could probably be reduced to a quarter of its size if the author had used a 'normal' writing style.

Re:how?

[cbhacking]

A massive portion of the books is in descriptions of places, people, and events - stuff like that is incredibly wordy and uses up a lot of pages, but is where the old "picture is worth a thousand words" line is most true. Take Egwene and Perrin meeting up with the Tinkers and traveling with them in The Eye of the World; there's a lot of book there, but it could be adequately described in well under 5 minutes of film. This is also true of the dream sequences, fight scenes, and so forth.

Dialog is the opposite, consuming tons of movie time with what would need only a single page of text. I think they could trim out a lot of the talking while maintaining the sense of wonder and excitement of the books, but on the other hand I've read them enough that the characters are well-developed for me. Somebody new to the series might find the characters to not get much background and development in my vision of the movie(s).

Re:how?

[Anonymous Coward]

How on earth are they going to condense down as much material as is in one of those books (let alone the whole series) into a movie without leaving out half the story? The Lord of the Rings books are half the size of Jordan's and each of those movies were over three hours long and still left some good stuff out.

Easy. Simply remove the description "Steely, Icy Glare" from every mention of one of the female characters & you'll drop at least 500 pages.
Eliminate the constant re-explanations of how magic works and you can cut out at least 2 more novels worth, maybe even more.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the series (well, we'll see what happens once it's 'finished') but I've always had an itch to go through & condense those books myself. I estimate I could easily remove 4 full novels from the series simply by removing all of the redundant explanations and recaps of previous events.

As for making a movie out of it, that could get interesting. The LoTR series was very long because Tolkien was an expert of making words count- if he had written in the same manner as Jordan did his 7-book series would be at least 21 novels instead of 4.
(And before anyone gets snippy, the Hobbit was one book, the Trilogy was actually 6 books published as 3 novels)

In the lines of a MMO, I think this is where the novel would really shine through, assuming a decent studio gets the rights to it. There is plenty of plot, huge amounts of backstory, and even when they finish up everything that happens in the novels they can still go back and fill in everything that happened in the history.
It will hopefully even cross over into a sci-fi/fantasy combination MMO which will be a nice change from the pure fantasy games out there now.

Re:how?

[Chris Burke]

Jordan thinks any character ever seen in a book needs a name. They can save about 5 hours just by not naming all their extras.
The last four or so books in the series will probably fit on a single page of the script.
And finally, Jordan didn't finish. There's a good 30 minutes out of the film right there.

Haha. I can see it now. They get all the right people with all the right motivations working on it. They create a movie that is tight, well-paced, dramatic, exciting, all while being faithful to the source material. Both fans of the books and newcomers are loving it, getting more and more into it with every minute. Then, right after a wipe ending a minor scene, BAM! the credits start rolling. Howls of rage rise from the theater as torches (where did those come from?) are lit and pitchforks raised, and there's rioting in the streets.

Re:how?

[geekoid]

Wonder like "I wonder when he will get to something"
And excitement like after 100 pages, something happened, wheee

The characters backgrounds could be summed up in about 30 seconds of film.

Re:how?

[Bensam123]

I'd settle for nothing less then three movies per book, but we all know that's not going to happen.

Honestly I wish this series was picked up by a animation studio in Japan. There are just some things you can't do without it becomming a series and there is more then enough material there to actually have a couple hundred meaningful episodes. There also are just somethings you can't produce in real life. Good anime bridges the gap between stories, art, and a visual picture.

Re:how?

[mgoheen]

Because when you get right down to it, the plot in all 12/13 of the novels can be summarized in about one short story...perfect for a movie.

Re:how?

[cornjones]

I have always thought they should do it as a miniseries. or hell, a series, you could probably fill 5-6 seasons easily.

Re:how?

[Kintanon]

Well to be honest there are about 15 stories contained in the series. If you made a movie of Just the most interesting story (That would be Matrim Cauthon for those of you who didn't read the books, not the main character Rand Al'Thor who is a whiny dipshit) you could knock it down to a good trilogy.
In fact, since Mat is the one who is supposed to blow the Horn of Valere you could do the whole thing with him as the Hero and have him blow the horn and fight the last battle without ever even involving Rand and his self pitying bullshit.

He's also the character that takes the least shit from the overly controlling and obnoxious female characters in the series since for the majority of the series he's immune to most forms of magic.

You could make a decent single movie about Perrin as long as you concentrated primarily on him meeting Faile and returning to defend the Two Rivers.

And you could probably get one movie out of Rand if you cut out all of his whiny bullshit. If you kept the whining in you could get 4 movies....

Re:how?

[LandDolphin]

Funny that people complain about his writing style, but he's one of the few authors I enjoy. I really don't like to read. Most stories lose me fairly soon. However, WoT was so good that I read through the 10 book that were out when I started reading the series back to back in a little over a month.

Sure, he spends a lot of time describing things, but the world feels vivid and the story is actually entertaining.

The beauty of death

[tyrantking31]

Good for the Robert Jordan fans. I'm personally waiting out Bill Waterson to get me some officially licensed Calvin peeing on stuff merchandise.

Red Eagle's Reliability..

[srothroc]

Isn't Red Eagle the company that was producing the Wheel of Time comic but ended up stopping because of financial reasons? I'd hesistate to invest money in playing a MMO funded by them unless I knew it was going to be around for a while.

Re:Red Eagle's Reliability..

[hansamurai]

They explain in the interview (third link I think) that the comic situation was out of their control, but they made it sound like they some how got a deal to finish it soon.

LENGTH

[tiedyejeremy]

I'm so glad I enjoyed these books in Audio format. No telling how I would have ever pronounced all those words... But considering the shear number of hours (must exceed 300 hours), I don't know how a movie can do it.

Re:LENGTH

[coolsnowmen]

I too love all the audio books. I couldn't bare to read all 12K pages again, but listening to them on car trips makes the driving time fly by.

Re:LENGTH

[dwye]

> but listening to them on car trips makes the driving time fly by.

Where were you going? Around the world five times in a row?

Re:LENGTH

[coolsnowmen]

At the time my gf was 4.5h away from me. So X2 for each way, is 9h of audio per trip.
Anyways, I've got to brush up for the final book :-)

developer needed for WOT MMO

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard some former dude named "British" was available to work on another MMO..:)

A series for the ages...

[DoofusOfDeath]

I loved the books when the series started. At the time they were the best I'd ever read. And then...

Book after book after book seemed to be an excuse to drag out the story line. What appeared to be solid progress towards a story climax in book N, was largely undone or obviated in book N+1.

Jordan could have made a several-book series that would be nearly as popular with fantasy buffs as Tolkein's stuff. But he blew it, and left me (and I'm sure many others) feeling like we'd been milked.

So now I'm soured on the story line, and that's a real shame. Screw it.

Re:A series for the ages...

[LandDolphin]

I personally feel that he made a wonderfully detailed world that had more going on in it then every character focused on one single point. I'd rather have one really good series then several smaller series with much less defined worlds.

Re:A series for the ages...

[cbhacking]

My feelings exactly. Take the world that WoT is most often compared to, LotR. There are certainly lots of parallels - Middle Earth is huge, there are lots of different nations with their own history, traditions, culture, and appearance, and the author crafted each with an incredible attention to detail. However, reading through the books (never mind watching the movies) in LotR doesn't give NEARLY as much a feel of the setting as WoT does. In WoT I can imagine the parts of the cities, the look of the farms, and the speech of the people - even for specific settings that were never visited. Without reading a lot of the LotR background, I've found this not nearly as easy to do. It's just not as immersive.

There's a lot more to this comparison, but I think I'll stop here.

Re:A series for the ages...

[aussie_a]

I think you're the fast WoT fan to post in this thread. Kudos to you.

Re:A series for the ages...

[fatboyslack]

Yes but LotR added a lot of that story in notes, appendices and additional books that weren't part of the main story.

I read all 11 books ... and I'll probably read the 12th but since I read the 11th I've read all of GRR Martin's 'A song of fire and ice' series which completely blows away any other fantasy series I've read before or since and WoT really suffers in comparison.

Re:A series for the ages...

[filthpickle]

LotR doesn't give NEARLY as much a feel of the setting as WoT

well...I think that Tolkien was leaving it up to your imagination....because he could have told you several thousand more pages....but didn't want to.

Re:A series for the ages...

[Anonymous Coward]

You've read all of ASoIaF? That's a neat trick.

I love both WoT and ASoIaF, they are both excellent, but both have flaws... for example, the fourth ASoIaF book was a bit of a chore to read compared to the others (mostly because of the split that had to be made, book five I fully expect to rock my socks clean off).

Re:A series for the ages...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, 100 pages of straightening skirts really let me imagine the character of the people. It's as bad as Harry Turtledove's "Aye" and "Don't tell me I'm wrong" Woo. hoo.

Re:A series for the ages...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a matter of approach, not substance. The world behind LotR is easily as rich as WoT... but Tolkein was a lot more subtle in letting that mythology influence his story-telling without beating the reader over the head with it. He kept the story tight while still giving insight into the world he was creating.

Of course, I'm in the small minority that actually enjoyed books 6-10...

Re:A series for the ages...

[cornjones]

i liked how martin basically apologized about the 4th book. Sorry, sorry, everything good is coming, i just had to slog through this.

(looked for the link but his page has been updated and i didn't see the old posts)

Re:A series for the ages...

[Jesus_666]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what polarizes people around the series: WoT is for immersion fetishists. I think it's nice to have the book describe the characters' thought processes in detail and in general give me the feeling that stuff is going on even when it's not at the center of a main character's attention. Many other people simply want to get the damn story to continue.

Re:A series for the ages...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the apology was at the end of the 4th book. Right before the appendices, after the last chapter.

WHY?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why?
Why make movies out of a brilliant bookseries?
Why base games on it?

We have the books (well, except the last one) and anyone who wants can read 'em. What is the motivation to branch out to other mediums? Well, except fans and their money (not necessarily in that order).

Besides few book-to-movie have managed to create something true to the books. They have to cut details, change small (or major) storyelements, to simply fit it into the length of a movie. Nice try with one of the longest series I have read. Also, when you read a book each person get a unique image of what the surroundings, characters etc look like. In a movie you get a few peoples vision of how it should look.

A game _could_ be good thing, if they only use the setting and NOT base it on the events in the book. Just look at Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and similar games. Set in Dungeons and Dragons' Forgotten Realms, use a few references to characters already established, but focus on a story made by the game developers. Not ripped out of some book and rewritten to fit a game.

Re:WHY?

[aussie_a]

Besides few book-to-movie have managed to create something true to the books.

Well I don't know how faithful Lord of the Rings was. What I do know is took unreadable tripe (to me) and made it into an entertaining trilogy.

If they can do the same with WoT for non-fans, then that sounds like a good move to me.

Where did they found this ter'angreal?

[prolene]

I gather it was past the darkness, mist and powerful keepers. I am not mixing up this with Thief. Both have an unreal connection. Oh wait unreal was also a game engine. Maybe now i am getting somewhere. Maybe i will get my hands on a copy when its out for taking!!!

Thems my rightful property!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an innate mistrust of someone who refers to story ideas as "properties". The responses sound more like they're coming from a Wall Street trader than a film producer.

What I hope...

[BigGar']

...is that they can edit the first story into a good movie and not feel the need to make grand changes to the story line. While I understand there will be some need to compress some things and to leave quite a bit out (what I mean by editing) making grand changes to basic tenets of the world that was created will just make a crappy movie, and ruin any chance they have at making more money off the franchise and kill any enjoyment the fans may get out of seeing this tale told through another medium.

If they can pull it off they can make a lot of money and create something that will be enjoyed for years. If not, well, we all know how those turn out.

Prediction.

[JinFTW]

Most of the movie will consist of smoothing of skirts and braid-pulling.

Easy!

[raehl]

If they just introduce each character once, that'll compress out 70% of the material right there.

As long as they don't "Dragon of the Lance" it

[Allah]

As long as they don't "animize" it like they did the new Dragon of the Lance animation movie. BLECH!

It would be a miracle if they did it justice

[IdahoEv]

Because "doing it justice" would mean somehow designing a game where the the more you play, the further away end gets!

That would require some impressive new technology, to say the least...

Re:It would be a miracle if they did it justice

[omnipresentbob]

That would require some impressive new technology, to say the least...

It's not new, there's been several ventures into this arena. See this article for more information.

Re:It would be a miracle if they did it justice

[je ne sais quoi]

Yeah no shit, I thought making the end get further away was normally called "raising the level cap in the new expansion". Hello and welcome back to the valley of the grind...

Look at the bright side...

[raehl]

At least late-game repetitive time-sinks will be source-material accurate.

Song of Ice and Fire

[lymond01]

George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series has just been given the "production order" by HBO which had optioned it awhile back. It's just for a pilot but if it does well, they may do a season a book, which would be great for such a huge series.

If you've read Wheel of Time, you should try Song of Ice and Fire. Different writing style, more developed and interesting characters. (I'm biased...I barely got through the first WoT book, but loved the SoIaF series).

Re:Song of Ice and Fire

[filthpickle]

If you've read Wheel of Time, you should try Song of Ice and Fire.

couldn't agree more. If you've read WoT in total or part (esp in part) and not SoIaF you should really pick it up.

my favorite thing about that series is how he leaves all the pieces in play...you can't just assume that someone won't die because they are a main char.

WoT is amazing

[malkir]

My favorite series, it took up years of my life waiting and waiting for each book.. but it just felt dragged on after a while. Book 10-12 didn't catch my attention half as much as the first few did. Jordan realized that he had 'golden keystrokes' and just padded the series.. hope this idea turns out better than the computer game.

As Mat says

[aikodude]

It's time to roll the dice!

Suravye ninto manshima tashite!

(Peace favor your sword!)

Robert Jordan's last words on Red Eagle

[Anonymous Coward]

In one of his final weblog entries before his death, Robert Jordan wrote:

I hear things now and then floating out in the air. For instance, I hear that word was floating about ComicsCon in San Diego that I am displeased with Red Eagle. Too true. Too very true. In a few more months that last contract they have with anyone on God's green earth that so much as mentions my name will come to an end and we can see what happens after that. You see, among other things they forgot an old dictum of LBJ back when he was just a Congressman from Texas, when he famously, or infamously, said "Don't spit in the soup. boys. We all have to eat." Worse, Red Eagle though they could tell me they spit in the soup, or pee in it, if they wanted to and there wasn't anything I could do to stop them. You can't apologize your way out of that with me, not that they tried. There isn't enough money in the world to buy your way out of it with me. Not that they tried that either. So they get no further help from me. Once they are completely out of the picture, we'll see what happens.

The only reason Red Eagle are still in the picture is because they managed to sell an option they had right before it expired. One misstep though, and they'll be belly up. I am waiting with great anticipation for that day.

Am I more worried about this or Brandon Sanderson?

[ampsonic]

I'm currently in the process of rereading the entire wheel of time series. (Even better the 2nd time through!) Once I heard that Brandon Sanderson would finish the last Wheel of Time book, I went and picked up his Mistborn series. First book was quite good, but the 2nd fell apart. The characters lack real depth. It worries me that the last book is in his hands, but it could turn out alright. However, there is probably no chance that any movie could do this series justice. Oh well.

Please....

[Vrallis]

Please, please, please...don't let this turn into another abomination like "Legend of the Seeker." The Sword of Truth series is among my favorite, but the "TV adaptation" has butchered them so badly.

Every single plot device used for the climax of the first book has been thrown out the window in the first two episodes. They have basically stripped the entire story and every character down to just their names and written something from scratch for TV.

On second thought, let's forget.

[xigxag]

Others have already mentioned George R.R. Martin's series being developed but let's not forget that Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series is already on broadcast television as Legend of the Seeker, which takes place in a fantasy land that bears a strong resemblance to New Zealand.

This is being done by the Herc/Xena guys, btw, so if you tune in expect top quality. ;)

Re:On second thought, let's forget.

[Zerth]

This is being done by the Herc/Xena guys, btw, so if you tune in expect top quality. ;)

You didn't just peg my sarcasm meter, you bent the needle. I now register less sarcasm than before. Yarg, this might be like eating spicy food. What's the sarcasm equivalent of keychain pepper spray?

Re:On second thought, let's forget.

[Psmylie]

Herc/Xena guys? I'll tune in, but only if they sign up Bruce Campbell. I don't care what role.

paint is more interresting

[Anonymous Coward]

it was a boringly dull & unimaginative series of books; i expect the other media will be even worse. thought it had potential the first few book; realised it was a wast of my time around book 7 or 8

Re:Am I more worried about this or Brandon Sanders

[Vrallis]

I went and picked up his Mistborn series. First book was quite good, but the 2nd fell apart. The characters lack real depth. It worries me that the last book is in his hands, but it could turn out alright. However, there is probably no chance that any movie could do this series justice. Oh well.

I also felt the second Mistborn seemed to show his inexperience as a writer a bit, but the third book was good and wrapped up the story nicely (although in a bit of an unexpected manner).

I have good hopes for him finishing up Wheel of Time.

Back...

[filthpickle]

fun

to Back.

[filthpickle]

ny

Re:Am I more worried about this or Brandon Sanders

[aussie_a]

As am I, although I can't say its my 2nd or 3rd time. I can't say how many times I've done this, its just been THAT MANY.

Although this will be the last for a long time I reckon. As for the 12th book, Robert Jordan wrote quite a bit and left a detailed outline. I'm confident anyone but an untalented hack could finish the book at an acceptable level.

It will be an excellent 40 hour game

[geekoid]

Stretched out to 400 hours.

It would make a better series than a movie.

[Sri Ramkrishna]

I think WOT would lend itself to be an excellent series rather than a movie. There's just too much going on to give it justice in a 2 hour movie. How else can we enjoy all the great machinations everyone was doing? sri

Gave up long ago

[lalena]

I stopped reading after book 10: Crossroads of Twilight. After reading the Wikipedia plot synopsis, I remember why:

• Perrin Aybara continues trying to rescue his wife...
• Mat Cauthon continues trying to escape...
• Elayne Trakand continues trying to solidify her hold on the Lion Throne...
• Rand al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn, rests...
• Egwene leads the rebel Aes Sedai in maintaining the siege of Tar Valon...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossroads_of_Twilight

Doomed from the start?

[pbaer]

As you can imagine, with nearly 10,000 pages of very complex storytelling and with more than 1,700 named characters, THE WHEEL OF TIME is an extremely challenging story to adapt to a feature-length film. Quite frankly, the project was too challenging for some studios, because of the size of the literary work, its depth, the required budget, etc. The WHEEL OF TIME is an epic on the scale of STAR WARS!

Re:Doomed from the start?

[CountBrass]

It's not very complex: it's just seriously over-written and any game or movie based on it will need what the books lacked: a competent writer and editor.

PS

Re your signature. There is no "1' in unary, so your sig should read "There are 0 types of people, those who know unary and me."

Will it star Vanna White?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just askin'.

"Crossroads of Twilight" the Game!

[mpaque]

In which your character must decide whether or not to take a bath, with or without the aid of servants!

Ah, truly thrilling gameplay at it's very best. The quest to find double-walled pails with lids; the confrontations with kitchen staff; and certainly not least, the challenge of racing from the kitchens to the bath before the water cools, while minimizing delays from Guardsmen checking to make sure there were no knives hidden in the water.

I can hardly wait. No, strike that. Yes, I can.

To be true to the novels...

[CountBrass]

the game would have to make you take 1.5 steps back for every 2 steps forward, just when you were expecting to make some progress it would force you to go and play a prequel and of course the original developers will have to fail and hand over the work to someone you've never heard of before.

WOT is seriously overrated: it never deserved 13 novels (and still not complete). Turgid and I have the distinct feeling Jordan just couldn't see how to finish the story; hence the prequel, which with cynicism turned up to 11, makes me suspect he was only leading people on until he could escape.

If I knew today what I'd be letting myself in for when I first started reading WOT I'd never have picked up the book.

This can't go wrong.

[LordHaart]

This is amazing. I will buy every single game, and watch every movie. I've long thought that the series would be excellent on the silver screen, and the thought of a WoT game just makes me salivate... Of course, it has to be done right, but I am confidant it will. Movies seem to generally have higher production values these days, as audiences are increasingly critical.

Robert Jordan Games,

[Anonymous Coward]

I can only hope they are better than the endless books that he produced, like a running of a bad soap. Luciano

Criticism FAIL

[ericrost]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system

A good way to read the series...

[Anonymous Coward]

is to skip every chapter not directly related to mat, perrin or rand. Figure this would be how you could slim the story down for the films too. I fully read the first 6 books, but went back a couple months later after this suggestion from a friend. I realized how very little was lost when you read it like this. I still read every page of the later books but now I when I re-read them I just skip the braid pulling, skirt smoothing chapters and end up enjoying the books far more then I did when I read them the first time.

The books are like a converging sequence...

[fljmayer]

... in that the time comes closer and closer to the definite value (Tarmon Gai'don), but never quite reaches it. And like in a true converging sequence, the progress made in each book becomes smaller and smaller. This is achieved by filling the books with more and more repetitions (warders in shifting cloaks, anyone?), bringing in additional characters and endless, pointless political maneuvering of all involved. When I stopped reading around book 5 or 6, I figured things had already come to a standstill and nothing would happen any more.

I'll pass

[Mister_Stoopid]

I'll wait until they make a movie based on Gene Ray's Timecube.