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Who Protects the Internet?

strikeleader writes "TechCrunch has an article from an interview with General Kevin Chilton, US STRATCOM commander and the head of all military cyber warfare. Who protects us? 'Basically no one. At most, a number of loose confederations of computer scientists and engineers who seek to devise better protocols and practices — unincorporated groups like the Internet Engineering Task Force and the North American Network Operators Group. But the fact remains that no one really owns security online, which leads to gated communities with firewalls — a highly unreliable and wasteful way to try to assure security.'"

177 comments

  1. Editorialization by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Meh. The question really should be "Who protects the Internet from being used as a military asset?" Cause that's all this guy is talking about.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Editorialization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yep. TechCrunch is lame. Slashdot, no need to perpetuate U.S. government propaganda.

    2. Re:Editorialization by davidphogan74 · · Score: 1

      Mammals are better than military.

    3. Re:Editorialization by INT_QRK · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think you meant "mammaries." But, mammaries are indeed becoming increasingly important to our modern military. That's progress.

    4. Re:Editorialization by INT_QRK · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course the internet is used as a military asset. So are carrots, roads, the sky, and, for that matter dirt. The military pioneered the use of human messengers, semaphore, the telegraph (wired, then "wireless"), telephone, radio telecommunications, and bent-pipe ---now increasingly IP enabled-- satellite. Militaries have always made use of telecommunications. The internet is just another medium on the continuum. Sorry if that makes your puppy cry.

    5. Re:Editorialization by B'Trey · · Score: 1

      All of the other examples you list - from messengers to telegraph to satcom - are technologies. The government's use of these technologies doesn't impact other uses of them in any way. The Internet, on the other hand, is a particular implementation of a technology. If the military wants to use TCP/IP as a military asset, few people would have any problem with that. But the ability to protect something necessarily means having at least some control over it. It means the ability to take action against anything interpreted as a threat, and the military/government definition of "threat" can be quite broad and quite self serving. (Go through airport security if you'd like to get an idea of how the government thinks security ought to be implemented.) So if the military wants to claim the Internet as a military asset, then I have a big issue with that. And I'm speaking as someone who is drawing a retirement pension from the US military.

      --

      "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.

    6. Re:Editorialization by INT_QRK · · Score: 1

      Militaries, globally, have always used, and continue to use, commercial telecommunications facilities, e.g., leased lines, public lines and switches, undersea cables, microwave relays, satellite facilities, and the airwaves themselves. Protection measures have always been applied ranging from contractual SLAs, COMSEC/TRANSEC measures where appropriate and effective, to even physical security of selected facilities. How does TFA imply anything unique or conceptually novel? If we assume that telecommunications facilities and assets are critical infrastructure, not a stretch in my mind, in the same way as, for example, dams, power stations, ports and other such otherwise public assets, have we not traditionally applied protective measures when called for? As an historical example, during WWII, many government, including the US, netted, patrolled, and even **mined** approaches to seaports. By the way, I am not advocating draconian control of the public Internet, or anything else for that matter. I'm just trying to contribute to the debate by pointing out a perspective, a potential argument, in fact, that may be advantageous to a broader understanding of both the problem and solution space.

    7. Re:Editorialization by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      I can see they are waiting for an excuse to take over.

      "For the good of the people" will no doubt be heard from these morons in the not to distant future.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  2. Secure .mil by changing the whole net? by Eganicus · · Score: 1, Funny

    What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Re:Secure .mil by changing the whole net? by Kooty-Sentinel · · Score: 1

      Don't worry ma'am, I am from the internet.

      --
      Your evaluation period for Productivity 1.0 has ended. Please purchase more coffee to continue using this product.
    2. Re:Secure .mil by changing the whole net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lies. If you were from the internet, you would never address anyone on /. as ma'am.

  3. Duh! by line-bundle · · Score: 3, Funny

    Al Gore of course. After all it's his baby.

    1. Re:Duh! by c_forq · · Score: 1

      I guess if you ignore Manbearpig's reign over the darknet.

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
  4. Filling the tubes by amclay · · Score: 2, Funny

    I destroy the interwebz everyday by bittorrenting, and filling the tubes.

    --
    It's all fun and games till someone divides by 0. Then it's hilarious.
    1. Re:Filling the tubes by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      You sure those aren't his dad's tubes?

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  5. Internet doesn't need protection by ZDRuX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who protects us? 'Basically no one...

    And thats the way I like it. Please keep the government's greedy and controlling hands out of this.

    --
    The magical number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    1. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by xs650 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wish I had mod points today, I would mod you insightful.

      It can't be protected without having control of it.

      The single best thing about the internet is that no one has full control of it. Had it been controlled by government or industry, it would be a miserable little shadow of what it is today.

    2. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by grunaura · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Your actulally quite right. The internet is a collection of networks not necissarily IP based. A majority of attacks exist on the IP side. Wide area networking technology carries all traffic regaurdless of the payload. If there is an attack on the border of your internal IP network the WAN cares not. If your border is penatrated and a connection is made to create another network, again the WAN doesn't care. Can the internet be taken down? Not if you have skilled and knowledgeable Information Security officers maintaining the network you reside on.

    3. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by LoRdTAW · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its like the old days of the wild west. No one really controls the land and you are free to roam and *almost* do as you please. If someone misbehaves a posse is rounded up to take care of the problem, the community helps itself. OSS is the same way.

      Hopefully no one entity or group ever takes control of our virtual land.

    4. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 2, Interesting

      not that I'm any kind of expert... but I would think that one could argue that once certain technologies got up to a decent level to allow for things like network cards, long distance communications, encryption, personal computers, etc... something like the internet would be inevitable.

    5. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I had mod points today, I would mod you insightful.

      It can't be protected without having control of it.

      The single best thing about the internet is that no one has full control of it. Had it been controlled by government or industry, it would be a miserable little shadow of what it is today.

      Aw, how sad. Here let me fix that for you. :-)

      I wish I had oranges baking, I would bake you tastefully.

      It can't be peaches without cookies of chocolate.

      The single best tasting peach about the oven is that no grape has full squish of itself. Had it been fried by tangerines or pears, it would be a tasty little waffle of what it is today.

      There, fixed! :-) No need to thank me! Have a nice day! :-)

    6. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      The only sort of "control" that should be allowed is the enforcement of network neutrality.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    7. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More importantly, there's nothing to stop someone else from handing out IP addresses and startin their own internet if they want to. You'd have to build your own backbone, but, if you've got the hardware and the inclination, you could totally do it.

    8. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      Not if you have skilled and knowledgeable Information Security officers maintaining the network you reside on.

      In A.D. 2101
      War was beginning.
      [...]
      CATS: You have no chance to survive make your time.
      CATS: Ha ha ha ha ....
      General Kevin Chilton: Take off every 'Information Security Officer'!!
      General Kevin Chilton: You know what you doing.
      General Kevin Chilton: Move 'Information Security Officer'.
      General Kevin Chilton: For great justice.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    9. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      The single best thing about the internet is that no one has full control of it. Had it been controlled by government or industry, it would be a miserable little shadow of what it is today.

      And then the government comes along with they're mandatory internet filtering, and we have ourselves a miserable little shadow.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
    10. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      not really that certain.
      If the internet hadn't grown up from under the radar it very well could have been treated like traditional media.
      Want to run a server? You better have a liscence just like the TV broadcasters.
      Want to connect at all? WEll first you have to authenticate with the central government servers so they know who's doing what on the network.

      Our greatest defence for years was that nobody knew enough about it to make laws on it. Now that there's real money involved of course the legislators want to make rules even if they don't have a clue what's going on- kinda like with every other situations that governments touch.

    11. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by ReedYoung · · Score: 3, Insightful

      not that I'm any kind of expert

      Neither is General Chilton, or he would not be talking with a straight face about using the public Internet for secured transmission of military data. He's a fucking idiot if he believes what he's saying and you should not take him seriously just because of his uniform. You're a voter and a taxpayer, right? Don't trust him, treat him as an employee.

      ... but I would think that one could argue that once certain technologies got up to a decent level to allow for things like network cards, long distance communications, encryption, personal computers, etc... something like the internet would be inevitable.

      Yes. What was not inevitable is that military personnel would choose to use publicly available, privately-owned hardware on basically an "honor system" set of customs to transmit mission-critical data. Truly, the barbarians are not only at the gates, they have sauntered lazily through unguarded gates, and now the barbarians control the Gates. DARPANET was based on sensible use of redundancy. Once it was available to the public it ceased to be a sensible thing for the military to use, but somebody decided that instead of a discreet military network, what the United States really needed was a diffuse military-industrial complex, blurring into academia, commerce, and eventually all of public life. Now, even responsible military officers trying only to do their jobs but encumbered by duties and procedures that constrain them to depend on the www, are routinely whining to us that they must infringe on our unalienable rights to free speech and security against unreasonable searches and seizures, in order merely to effectively protect our lives and the so-called "liberties" that in fact we don't have. This infrastructure is not our enemy, the military's infantile dependence upon it, is. But until they're weaned onto their own, physically separate DoD.net, we're all effectively under martial law. Al Gore was an idiot to voluntarily take any "credit" for the worldwide web.

      The problem is that it isn't clear who has the remit for comprehensive defense of the internet.

      What horse shit! One does not comprehensively defend an open network. For applications requiring military-grade comprehensive defense, one makes a physically separate closed network. VPN doesn't cut it and never will, by any name.

      --
      "I can't imagine how things could get any worse!" (some guy) "That could just be failure of imaginatioÂn on your p
    12. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by AlecC · · Score: 1

      I don't see anything in the referenced article about using the public internet for transmission of military data. He is talking about the public internet as a target for offensive action by an enemy with the intention of damaging the country and forcing a surrender, or at least achieving military advantage, by economic means.

      Most purchasing is now done electronically, one way or another, and such purchases travel over the Internet. If you jam the Internet, you can seriously bollocks up a production and distribution based on "Just In Time". If all the food stores in the country cannot order fresh supplies, they will run out, and civilians, rightly or wrongly, will panic and demand that the Government Do Something - which may be to give in to the demands of whoever is jamming the system.

      There are similar problems with a lot of monitoring equipment, on thing such as the power grid, which report over the Internet. Systems which have problems will not be able to report back to the maintenance base that they need attention. Of course, well designed systems will shut down if not fixed, so you wouldn't get any disasters immediately. But over time, large chunks of infrastructure would crumble. The crews who used to patrol the networks regularly have been laid off because automation - aided by the Internet - does it so much more cheaply.

      It would be they cyber equivalent of taking out all the bridges in the road system - as was done in the Gulf Wars. By destroying public, not military, infrastructure, you can achieve military ends. And the military, charged with defending us, would rather this did not happen.

      The military have their own separate networks, about which they do not talk. All the well publicised breaches in military network security have been in public-facing systems like public web servers and mail gateways. Yes, these have sometimes been pathetically badly secured. But they are not mission critical system - or at least, not intended to be.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    13. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the government's greedy and controlling hands"

      As opposed to big corporation's greedy and controlling hands?

      I'm pretty sure that "safety" of the internet goes hand in hand with its de-neutralization.

    14. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by 1lus10n · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACLANE

      Who said anything about a VPN ?

      --
      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
    15. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by theaveng · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Forget the Old West, how about NOW?

      When I walk through downtown Baltimore, who is there to protect me? (looks around). I don't see any police around so I'm basically a victim waiting to be robbed by some guy hiding around the next corner. The only real protection is (1) a mutual agreement to respect one another's property, (2) common sense to avoid dangerous areas or obvious scams, and (3) as a last resort self-defense when attacked. The internet operates on the same principles.

      Government police can not be everywhere.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    16. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      But I think we should have the government put big fluffy pillows on any concrete sidewalk in case we fall down.[/sarcasm]

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    17. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're actually quite right.

      There, fixed that for you.

    18. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by Lost+Race · · Score: 1

      The internet is a collection of networks not necissarily IP based.

      Use of the Internet Protocol defines the Internet. If it's not using IP, it's not part of the Internet. The Internet is a global system of interconnected computer networks that interchange data by packet switching using the standardized Internet Protocol Suite (TCP/IP). (text shamelessly swiped from Wikipedia)

    19. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by ReedYoung · · Score: 1

      I don't see anything in the referenced article about using the public internet for transmission of military data. He is talking about the public internet as a target for offensive action by an enemy with the intention of damaging the country and forcing a surrender, or at least achieving military advantage, by economic means.

      If true, that means you did not watch the interview, on which the text on TechCrunch is mere commentary, and irrelevant without the interview. About 1:50 in that interview, he refers to the "military part of the Internet" [emphasis mine] and before that, the first thing he says to Charlie's question about "cyberspace" is "I like to think about it in terms of, um, any of the other domains that we have to conduct operations in." He goes on to explicitly conflate commerce, transportation, and his concept of a "domain" of military operations, as all dependent on the same Internet. Admittedly, censorship is not overtly advocated in this interview, but that dependence he cited as the reason for military cyber monitoring was also invoked by former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales in defense of NSA's illegal wiretapping of US citizens without warrants. "When the President does it, it's not illegal" is a Nixonian fallacy worthy of impeachment and imprisonment, and the military use of the public infrastructure can plainly be seen to be pulling the public toward military dictatorship under the Bush administration.

      Chilton talks about DDoS as "kind of clogging circuits." Assuming he knows what he's talking about in more professional terms than those he chooses to use for Charlie Rose's audience, I disagree with the implicit premise that discussion using such "dumbed down" vocabulary is valuable. That only gives uninformed persons the illusion of understanding, which is more dangerous than leaving them ignorant. At least when I talk over morons heads, they correctly understand the fact that they are ignorant.

      --
      "I can't imagine how things could get any worse!" (some guy) "That could just be failure of imaginatioÂn on your p
    20. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatâ(TM)s happening every day is that all of our information is being stolen. So, we pay billions of dollars for research and development, both in the government and the private sector, for engineering, for pharmaceuticals, for bioengineering, genetic stuff⦠and all that information gets stolen for one one-thousandth of the cost that it took to develop it.â

      See their more worried about their money making shit getting stolen.

      "Oh think about the children." Oh I mean the corp fat cats.

    21. Re:Internet doesn't need protection by ReedYoung · · Score: 1

      Great example of settling for encryption when privacy is needed on public infrastructure. Thanks for the backup.

      --
      "I can't imagine how things could get any worse!" (some guy) "That could just be failure of imaginatioÂn on your p
  6. It's by taucross · · Score: 0

    Batman.

    --
    "In the absence of the ability to establish the attribute of truth they tried to establish the noble attributes."
    1. Re:It's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chuck Norris. He doesn't have a chin under his beard, just a big-ass router with some serious ACLs.

    2. Re:It's by enoz · · Score: 1

      Chuck Norris

      Unfortunately this internet is vulnerable to the BruceLee attack.

    3. Re:It's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not Chuck Norris, that's Bruce Schneier. Get yer meme straight.

    4. Re:It's by droopycom · · Score: 1

      That would be Bruce Schneier not Chuck.
      Chuck has another Fist under his beard.

      Here are the Chuck Norris Facts: http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/

      And here are the Bruce Schneier Facts: http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/

      Please dont get confused people!

  7. Easy by tuxgeek · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is an easy one
    Uncle Ted himself, who else understands the internet as well as he
    Although now he may be doing it from his new base in cell #1576 Cell block E

    --
    "Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
    1. Re:Easy by Jimmy+King · · Score: 1

      Until I got to the cell block bit I was wondering what Ted Nugent had to do with the Internet.

    2. Re:Easy by tuxgeek · · Score: 1

      I was wondering what Ted Nugent had to do with the Internet

      Ah yes, I remember seeing him in concert 33 years ago. Good show! I would never refer to him as Uncle Ted though, maybe reefer Ted ...

      --
      "Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
    3. Re:Easy by Jimmy+King · · Score: 1

      But Uncle Ted is a very old, common nickname for him and can be seen in use right here. Reefer Ted, though? He's very, very, anti-drugs.

  8. Our network can b hacked, let's make a new www! by Eganicus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Military Intelligence is truly a ridiculous concept. Anyway, who's playing quake with me on NSA supercomputers tonight?

    1. Re:Our network can b hacked, let's make a new www! by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Military Intelligence is truly an oxymoronic concept.

      There! Fixed it for you!

      --
      The game.
    2. Re:Our network can b hacked, let's make a new www! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Military Intelligence is truly an oxymoronic concept.

      There! Fixed it for you!

      Thanks Groucho, never heard THAT one before.

    3. Re:Our network can b hacked, let's make a new www! by AviLazar · · Score: 1

      Anyway, who's playing quake with me on NSA supercomputers tonight?
      Yea, but will they run Crysis?

      --

      I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
    4. Re:Our network can b hacked, let's make a new www! by Logic+and+Reason · · Score: 1

      SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?

  9. Firewalled networks wasteful? by Kaz+Kylheku · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's the alternative? Globalized security, courtesy of Big Brother?

    Don't good fences make good neigbors?

    I suppose it's wasteful, in code, for module entry points to validate parameters, too. :)

    1. Re:Firewalled networks wasteful? by scatters · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if the government could offer some form of protection online, I'd be a fool not to protect my own network to the best of my abilities. Using Jonathan Zittrain's logic from TFA, doors must be ineffecient and wasteful too; obviously he has never heard of the concept of defense in depth.

      --
      A One that isn't cold, is scarcely a One at all.
    2. Re:Firewalled networks wasteful? by m50d · · Score: 1

      Firewalls are inefficient and wasteful because of the amount of trouble they cause legitimate use, and the little they do to prevent illegitimate use. It's like putting six padlocks on your flimsy wooden door.

      --
      I am trolling
    3. Re:Firewalled networks wasteful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "obviously he has never heard of the concept of defense in depth."

      Hey,

      redundancy itself is wasteful... until you need it...

      all the best,

      drew
      (as ac as I modded already)

    4. Re:Firewalled networks wasteful? by zotz · · Score: 1

      Well, that was a bit odd.

      first time i tried that and it doesn't seem to make sense.

      I modded already. I wanted to comment. Had I logged out and posted AC my mod would not have been undone. So I figured, there is a post as AC option, I don't need to bother logging out. Not so. Posting as AC when logged in undoes your mods.

      WHY?

      all the best,

      drew

      --
      FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
    5. Re:Firewalled networks wasteful? by Kijori · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't good fences make good neigbors?

      No.

      The expression comes from a poem - "Mending Wall" - by Robert Frost, which is an ironic criticism of peoples' need to separate themselves from one another without understanding why - or indeed whether - they should. Walls are by their very nature divisive, and hamper cooperation by design. It is foolish, therefore, just to blindly put them up wherever we can in the name of "security".

      To quote:
      '"Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
      Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.
      Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
      What I was walling in or walling out,
      And to whom I was like to give offence.
      Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
      That wants it down!"' (Lines 29-34, taken from http://www.bartleby.com/104/64.html )

      And on a less literary note:

      Walling off every separate bit of the internet is necessary, since the internet by design has no inside and outside that you can separate. However, as we've pretty much proved by trying, that isn't enough to make the internet secure. It's the same lesson that you learn in physical security; if there's no response, it doesn't matter how good your defences are. There needs to be some sort of globalised response to online criminals, because the internet is both global and in need of defense. Otherwise we just carry on with the problem we have now - that a criminal gang in Russia/China/wherever can attack our computers with impunity, safe in the knowledge that there is nothing we can do to stop them, so they have as much times as they need to break in.

  10. don't try to draw too many real world analogies... by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think you want to centralize anything like that, at least not to the exclusion of everyone having local protections. Your firewall is under your control and you can make it as secure or unsecured as you want it.

    If you want the cyberspace equivalent of a national army, you're just asking to have lots of power taken away from you and given to someone else. That being said, I think there is a case for prevention of nations attacking other nations en large, or 'war by other means'.

    but carry it too far and you end up destroying the global feel of the internet - you'll end up with cyber borders as bad as our real borders - checkpoints you can't cross without 'your papers please'.

  11. Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Easy. Anonymous is the guardian of the internets.

    1. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wat?

  12. CMR Taco! by mbaGeek · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought that was Slashdot's job ;-)

    --
    It ain't what they call you. It's what you answer to. http://mylyceum.us/
    1. Re:CMR Taco! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Nope, 4chan.

  13. Evolution, baby by Niobe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The idea that 'someone' 'owning' 'security' would somehow provide us with more online protection I find unbelievably stupid and ignorant. If you open your eyes you'll realise we wouldn't even have the internet if it weren't for essentially random collections of like-minded people each contributing a piece of the puzzle - it's called evolutionary process, and nothing any businessman or politician has ever invented has come close to it's effectiveness.

    1. Re:Evolution, baby by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      It's no more ridiculous than believing that a centralized government can provide more physical security. . .

    2. Re:Evolution, baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and that's stupid too. How is stripping us of our rights protecting us?

    3. Re:Evolution, baby by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      That's my point.

    4. Re:Evolution, baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "someone owning security"

      ->

      Who guards the guardians?

  14. In the Wild West.... by Zymergy · · Score: 1

    ...People carried guns for protection.
    And individuals who learned to best use their 'protection', with faster assessment of threats and the resulting execution of such with precise accuracy, found they had a satisfactory level of self-protection.
    I say, legalize some offensive capabilities for "Internet Users" and set up some general universal use rules. After all, when you point a gun to shoot at someone else, you are tacitly giving them permission to shoot back at you (or even preemptively), hence the deterrence of pointing a gun at someone else WHO IS ARMED.

    I truly hope this is not just FUD for setting up a new government great-firewall bureaucracy in order to big-brother those of us lucky enough to still have open unfiltered Internet.

    1. Re:In the Wild West.... by enoz · · Score: 1

      I say, legalize some offensive capabilities for "Internet Users" and set up some general universal use rules.

      That sounds like Cold War 2.0

      After all, when you point a gun to shoot at someone else, you are tacitly giving them permission to shoot back at you (or even preemptively)

      Were you infact an advisor for the Iraq War?

    2. Re:In the Wild West.... by Rod+Beauvex · · Score: 1

      I wish they'd let us do this in the real world. Manners would suddenly come back in vouge.

    3. Re:In the Wild West.... by Zymergy · · Score: 1

      You missed my point, I was making (or at least attempting to make) a fundamental analogy. Not some type of geopolitical statement.
      Also, it had nothing to do with the country of Iraq. (And apparently, you have never been held at gunpoint and robbed before.)
      There *are* very bad people out there, and some of them use the Internet and do very bad things there too.
      Some believe that an individual Internet User should be filtered, 'protected', and passively controlled by bureaucrats, in a fully rubber-padded and hand-railed world, leaving only the police having any legal power and authority to protect individuals (hit-back). (As in "For Your Protection", yes think Douglas Adams)

      Others believe in self-protection, self-regulation, and self-defense and embrace the concept of personal responsibility for one's safety and personal accountability if you threaten or harm another. (I lean that way...)

      If someone breaks into my home and threatens me or my family with a weapon, they die.
      (This is a valid and appropriate example of Self-protection and deterrence to any others from making attempts to attempt to do the same.)

      There are many who believe I should not have right to have the tools of my own protection (because someone out there might misuse the same tools or whatever) and therefore only the police (government) should have such tools and they will be the only ones with said 'protection'.
      Classic gun-control fallacy. The world does not work that way. People do not work that way. Deterrence works.

      I was suggesting that some offensive capability be permitted/granted to those who are attacked on the open Internet as a deterrent. Something with teeth.
      To my knowledge, all we can do legally is filter/firewall and block an attacker (as we have walls and locks and doors on our homes) on the Internet who is harming/attacking us.
      It would be nice to have a honeypot full of coded hurt at the ready for attackers to steal or a botnet ready to flood them into leaving me alone. (I am sure the DOD has these and many more effective 'protection' tools at their disposal.)
      It was an argument against the concept that the Internet should be policed only by the government/military/police and rubber-padded and filtered for its users.

      I do realize that the Internet is not built that way and there is no good analogy in the real world to best explain it, but a nice protective capability like a DNS kick-ban or remote forced system reboot on my attacker would make me happier knowing I *could* do that to some bad and harmful user who is attacking my system on my side of the demark.
      I would wager some companies on the open Internet have some off-shore 'contractors' on call to dish out some digital hurt to attackers.

    4. Re:In the Wild West.... by Daimanta · · Score: 1

      "giving them permission to shoot back at you (or even preemptively)"

      yeah, I call this the small-Bush doctrine. Shoot preemptively, search for a reason later.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    5. Re:In the Wild West.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once you start the regulation, you're on the way down the slippery slope to That Firewall.

    6. Re:In the Wild West.... by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      People who carry guns for protection get shot

      If guns are seen as devices for killing and so shunned then anyone with a gun is seen as a criminal and also shunned and soon the problem disappears

      A better protection is defence.... give me a firewall over a killer botnet anyday

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    7. Re:In the Wild West.... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      If someone breaks into my home and threatens me or my family with a weapon, they die.

      Zymergy shot first!!

      Thats *your* fallacy. You're assuming that you get a chance to shoot first.

      Classic gun-control fallacy. The world does not work that way. People do not work that way. Deterrence works.

      Deterrence works, but leads to an arms race.

      It'll work as long as there are unarmed homeowners, as they will be "burglars choice" (easier targets). But as soon as everyone has a gun... do you really thing burglars will be extinct? No.. they'll just keep on trying to break into your house (without tripping any alarm) and shoot you while you're still sleeping. Better safe than sorry, you understand.... It's not their fault.. you forced them to do so, to protect themselves.

      --
      bickerdyke
    8. Re:In the Wild West.... by Kijori · · Score: 1

      In the Wild West, people got killed and robbed, and people lived in fear of being visited by bandits. If you needed security for something - a train, or a shop - it was extremely expensive and unreliable. Armed men were frequently killed, since it turns out that when you get shot it doesn't make much difference whether you've got a gun or not.

      In contrast, I occasionally have to stand up on my train to work, but it hasn't yet been robbed by armed bandits.

      So tell me, which part of the "Wild West" is it that was so fantastic that we should copy it today, after everyone has moved on to such a degree that the Wild West doesn't exist any more?

    9. Re:In the Wild West.... by Cowmonaut · · Score: 1

      Brothels.

    10. Re:In the Wild West.... by Kijori · · Score: 1

      You know you're on Slashdot when people are willing to risk their lives and drag society back by hundreds of years... in order to pay for women.

    11. Re:In the Wild West.... by not_hylas(+) · · Score: 1

      JasterBobaMereel:

      People who carry guns for protection get shot

      If guns are seen as devices for killing and so shunned then anyone with a gun is seen as a criminal and also shunned and soon the problem disappears

      ... in a perfect world, yes.
      You're new here (Earth), aren't you?

      But we live here, now.

      http://digg.com/business_finance/Gun_sales_surge_after_Obama_s_election?t=20660666#c20660666

      Until it happens to you - you just won't "get it".

      "Happiness is a Warm Gun"

      Original:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itfms556DgE

      The way many of us remember (the morphine and nurses):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EDm3vkfRzo

      "Don't ya know ....)

      --
      ~hylas
  15. Missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems that the article author and the poster are lacking ideas just as gen Chilton. Why then shoot down somebody's strategy without offering something better?

    I suppose the actual moral of the story is the cash that goes on TSA, DHS - or at least part of it - could be better spent elsewhere?

  16. Makes better sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why have ONE type of defense when you can have a multitude of defenses that people may or may not know anything about?

  17. Better not to have the internet "protected" by Sepiraph · · Score: 1

    "But the fact remains that no one really owns security online, which leads to gated communities with firewalls -- a highly unreliable and wasteful way to try to assure security."

    Actually, it is far more secure that way, if one organization did somehow owned all security online, the internet as a whole would be much less security because now you have a single point of failure. Once someone exploited that vulnerability, the entire Internet as a whole would be affected. Also I get the feeling from the article that what they are really after is not necessarily security, but CONTROL of the Internet. Lastly, that man DOES NOT protect the Internet in any way, shape or form. He might be responsible for the USA military Intranet, but that's about it. Stop the fear-mongering already.

  18. * Messed up the tag from my last post* by Sepiraph · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "But the fact remains that no one really owns security online, which leads to gated communities with firewalls -- a highly unreliable and wasteful way to try to assure security."

    Actually, it is far more secure that way, if one organization did somehow owned all security online, the internet as a whole would be much less security because now you have a single point of failure. Once someone exploited that vulnerability, the entire Internet as a whole would be affected. Also I get the feeling from the article that what they are really after is not necessarily security, but CONTROL of the Internet. Lastly, that man DOES NOT protect the Internet in any way, shape or form. He might be responsible for the USA military Intranet, but that's about it. Stop the fear-mongering already.

  19. Uh oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hopefully they are just asking for funds for some kind of military abomination. But we all know where this kind of talk usually ends up. Public surprise buttsecks!

  20. Nobody owns security offline either by registrar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nobody owns security offline either, and nobody should. If you own something, or care about something, you protect it. Some things have additional protection from the police or the military (e.g. I have a reasonable expectation that the police will prevent me from getting beaten up in some circumstances), but in the most part "the authorities" have a fairly punitive deterrent role. But anything that needs special protection gets it: got valuables in your house? Alarm, strong doors, insurance. All privately paid-for and provided. Got valuables on your computer? Backups, firewall, antivirus. Also privately provided.

    Basically, the people who care about things know how much they're worth protecting. It isn't sensible to have military-grade security around my old Corolla, but my laptop's pretty secure because it's got a few worthwhile things. If the good General has infrastructure or secrets worth protecting, he should protect them. If it makes sense to exploit economies of scale and worth with other branches of the community, great.

    It's also not true that there's a loose confederation of people (Vixie & co) protecting the internet. There are plenty of people around who want to protect or improve their own reputation, and security is one of those ways. If the military wants contact points in the wider security community, they shouldn't be looking for an owner, but they should be working with reality: getting out there making those contacts.

    Normally I think such anarchy is stupid, but in this case it actually is common sense.

  21. Redundancy in security is not wasteful by religious+freak · · Score: 1

    a highly unreliable and wasteful way to try to assure security

    I disagree. It's a terrible thing that we do not have a force dedicated to cyber security, but I wouldn't call the individual security nets "wasteful".

    Is it wasteful to have both an enterprise firewall AND anti-virus software? No, you should have a net at every point possible - especially if we're talking issues where the government would start to be concerned. In that case, the person sitting on the other side of an attack is likely as sophisticated as the highest paid engineers on our side. Redundancy is essential in that case.

    --
    If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    1. Re:Redundancy in security is not wasteful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I call redundancy in the feces of male cattle.

    2. Re:Redundancy in security is not wasteful by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      Hmm, good job in making me spend more than the typical 2 seconds reading a stupid AC quote. This one is so odd, I just had to sit and see if there was any meaning whatsoever - I still haven't found any. But again - compliments!

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
  22. Who Protects the Internet? by The+Munger · · Score: 1

    I look forward to Stephen Conroy protecting my internet from unwanted material.
    </sarcasm>

    --
    Refuse to make a statement in your sig!
  23. Re:don't try to draw too many real world analogies by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want the cyberspace equivalent of a national army, you're just asking to have lots of power taken away from you and given to someone else.

    All those spammers building botnets, eventually, they're going to become "security companies". Nice web site you've got there, it'd be a shame if no-one could get to it. Once they start collecting taxes from a large enough group of people, they become a "legitimate" police force. After all, they don't want anyone else building a bigger botnet than theirs.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  24. C'mon guys, read TFA to the end... by pegdhcp · · Score: 5, Informative
    I guess the whole point of article, aside from being a scarecrow, is in following part. They probably put it there, in order to hide it from /. crowd...

    When Obama appoints a white house CTO, there will at least be an official figurehead in charge of this matter. Proposed candidates for the role currently include Eric Schmidt, Steve Ballmer, Jeff Bezos and Julius Genachowski from IAC.

    Emphasis is mine, please be kind to your new -potentially- M$ loving uber-CTO and use only approved root kits, that utilized security holes those are already hot-fixed by people who put them there in the first place, from now on...

    1. Re:C'mon guys, read TFA to the end... by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      Everytime a hate-filled loser like you try to spit your venom, we gain 100s more of volunteers.

      Did you know that many Republicans feel the same way about Democrats? Both sides are so entrenched in groupthink it's incredible that the government can get anything done at all.

    2. Re:C'mon guys, read TFA to the end... by pegdhcp · · Score: 1

      Interesting thing is that I am not an American and my political ideology, while my post was not about politics, is far left than the new President's party. I am happy that, idiots like you, who are conforming derogatory "low IQ average American" image are only a minority, according to my experience with USA citizens. This minority is unfortunately is more visible and louder than the rest of population.

    3. Re:C'mon guys, read TFA to the end... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was McCain who had proposed Ballmer as the CTO and Obama who was looking more at someone like Lessig?

    4. Re:C'mon guys, read TFA to the end... by yuna49 · · Score: 1

      My candidate for national CTO is Ed Felten of Princeton. Of course such an appointment would hardly be looked upon with favor in places like Hollywood or Redmond.

  25. You can have my firewall when you pry if from my by CranberryKing · · Score: 1
    Cold Dead Hands!

    Yes, my network is just fine, thank you for asking. No assistance needed here. Goodbye.

  26. Metagovernment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like the internet is ready for Metagovernment. National boundaries seem so pointless in this day and age.

  27. Stange analogy by Bevilr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is a really weird analogy, but this reminds me of snow crash - individual areas secured by their owners, and huge unprotected wastes and everything in between. Too far fetched a nerd reference?

    1. Re:Stange analogy by jtolds · · Score: 1

      No, I totally thought the same thing.

    2. Re:Stange analogy by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      This is a really weird analogy, but this reminds me of snow crash - individual areas secured by their owners, and huge unprotected wastes and everything in between. Too far fetched a nerd reference?

      Not at all. This is central to the cyberpunk aesthetic, which views society from a hacker's perspective.

      Consider the changes in the network, from the days of ruinously expensive proprietary UNIX available only on mainframes at large corporate and academic sites, to the modern age in which any individual's cheap home computer can provide all manner of network services, given only sufficient bandwidth and a distribution of free open-source software, are tremendous. The internet is rich with self-organising tribal societies clustering around memes rather than geography.

      Now extend that to civilisation as a whole, which is only a larger network. What does it matter if my network address ends in .uk and not, say, .ie? Not a whole lot. This way lies the distributed, post-nation-state world of Snow Crash, in which people group together according to ideology, tribalism, or sheer common commercial interest. Cyberpunk is a world run by whatever corporations or other collectives can keep up with the rate of change, with hackers as an elite intellectual class of individualists hired on ad hoc by the rulers, and Anonymous as the proletariat. Snow Crash might not be too far off, but if I were to come back in a hundred years, I wouldn't be too surprised to find a society looking more like Transmetropolitan.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    3. Re:Stange analogy by Medievalist · · Score: 1

      ...from the days of ruinously expensive proprietary UNIX available only on mainframes at large corporate and academic sites, to the modern age in which any individual's cheap home computer can provide all manner of network services, given only sufficient bandwidth and a distribution of free open-source software, are tremendous.

      Sigh... UNIX didn't run on ruinously expensive mainframes and was not proprietary in the "old days". Quoth the old man who was there.

      UNIX was developed for cheap minicomputers; specifically, the DEC PDP series, which were called "Programmable Data Processors" (PDP, get it?) instead of "computers" because they were so cheap customers refused to believe they were real computers. The DEC salesman would use the pitch "Oh, you don't need a ruinously expensive mainframe, your particular application needs can be satisfied by a cheap programmable data processor!".

      The big iron ran stuff like SCOPE, OS/360 variants, GECOS (ever wonder why /etc/passwd has a GECOS field? Look it up.) and Burroughs MCP. Weirdly enough, though, it has recently become possible to run a unix descendant (linux) on a mainframe descendant (System Z). So you've got it backwards - UNIX started small and went big. It also started free - Ritchie used to give it away to universities - but became expensive and proprietary after it gained market share.

      The internet is rich with self-organising tribal societies clustering around memes rather than geography.

      These tribes began to form before the age of computers, with the advent of cheap travel and communications (postwar auto and telecommunications booms) but you're right, the Internet has created a medium where they can flourish far beyond what was possible in earlier ages.

  28. Like a mother protecting its baby by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

    Al Gore?

    --
    Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
  29. Net Neutrality: Gov't regulation for the Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hope you don't support Net Neutrality, because that is the Trojan Horse for government regulation of the Internet.

  30. Re:don't try to draw too many real world analogies by Dr.+Hellno · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find your rampant speculation refreshing

  31. OT: Your sig by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Basements are SO overrated. The attic is where its at.

    Attics are terrible, all the heat gets trapped there! Just think of how many fewer computers you can viably run.

    1. Re:OT: Your sig by sowth · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had the same problem as you. Living in my parents attic, it was so hot..even in winter. One day while playing doom, I had an idea: Use the chainsaw to free the heat. It took some blood and sweat, but I got the job done. Fly Mr. Heatie, fly!

      Back on topic: With all these people trying to control the internet and the FCC auctioning off all the airwaves, I'm ready to become a freebander. Why not just create a radio networking card which uses the analog TV freqs the FCC took away. ...okay, that would be a bad idea, they'd probably just track us all down.

      Then again, maybe playing with pringles cans and "legit" wireless networking, we can interface with our neighbors. Something has to work, or am I just a kook?

    2. Re:OT: Your sig by smuffy · · Score: 1

      There are several mesh networking schemes to do exactly what you are talking about. In remote areas, mesh networking often becomes the only way to get network access. Try Netsukuku http://netsukuku.freaknet.org/ Batman https://www.open-mesh.net/batman Netsukuku has as a project goal to explicitly facilitate creating the equivalent of the internet, with DNS-like name services and the like. As for pringles can antennas, try a bi-quad, a yagi or a waveguide instead, you'll get far superior performance.

    3. Re:OT: Your sig by kantier · · Score: 1

      Then again, maybe playing with pringles cans and "legit" wireless networking, we can interface with our neighbors. Something has to work, or am I just a kook?

      Being there, doing that. There are others too.

  32. Who Protects the Internet? by mrv00t · · Score: 0

    The secret guild of Internet protectors?

  33. Propaganda .. slashdot please by tg123 · · Score: 1

    Slashdot please put this under Propaganda classification. according to wiki - "Propaganda is the dissemination of information aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda While I don't mid a bit of propaganda for a good cause . I think you have to call a spade a spade. Information wants to be free.

  34. In Soviet Russia... by InSovietRussiaTroll · · Score: 0

    ...the party protects you!

  35. Mod Parent Up by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

    Net neutrality is anything but.

  36. Every network is different... by qwertphobia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and the "internet" is the chaos that arises from connecting all these networks together.

    My organization needs to make its own decisions on what policies it need to implement on its network.

    Communications between my college and many strange corners of the globe occur daily. If I dropped kerberos at my borders, Xbox wouldn't work anymore, and I would be risking bodily harm from the rioting mobs.

    Now, if a federal department had such traffic crossing its borders, they'd have a rapid deployment team there within minutes to figure out what happened.

    Anyone who tells you that security can be solved easily is probably trying to sell you something...

    --
    Never ask for directions from a two-headed tourist! -Big Bird
  37. Re:Net Neutrality: Gov't regulation for the Intern by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's either the governments, or ISPs, or Corporations...

    The best and only way to shake the control is to misbehave, en masse. Perpetual Renaissance.

  38. Isn't it obvious? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bob protects the internet. "To mend and defend"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ReBoot_characters#Bob

  39. Next stop: anal probes by harrisben · · Score: 1

    This sounds a lot like fear-mongering designed to convince the uninformed masses, because the informed minority like things the way they are, that a new level of beauracracy needs to be introduced to save us all from the evil internets. It's for the children. We must save them.

  40. me by weirdo557 · · Score: 0

    me

  41. who watch the watchmen ? by Atreide · · Score: 1

    As always who watch the watchmen ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen

    --
    The world belongs to those who get up early. - I'm far from being the king of Earth then :-(
    1. Re:who watch the watchmen ? by alabandit · · Score: 1

      re:Sig

      i wait up for the early rises then pounce... let the mil try take over, there are many out there ready to pounce

      --
      "You are still innocent until proven guilty. What's changed is what they do to innocent people." by notnAP (846325)
  42. Duh. by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

    IT, of course.

  43. if the military does not regard it as an asset... by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It had to be destroyed to be saved."
    Several governments are already making progress on this game plan.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  44. And not to forget by RandomInteger() · · Score: 1

    Who protects the outernet?

  45. He who protecteth, by andreyvul · · Score: 1

    censoreth.

    --
    proud caffeine whore
  46. Two-party system leading do divisive-ness? by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

    Both sides are so entrenched in groupthink it's incredible that the government can get anything done at all.

    Who would have thinked it: that a two-party system leads to a greater concentration of an us-or-them, with-us-or-against-us mentality?

  47. Re:if the military does not regard it as an asset. by foobsr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "It had to be destroyed to be saved."

    Save Humanity NOW!

    Decode: Another hint to the proposition that technological progress has to be accompanied with (say) 'social evolution' in order to be fruitful. Mankind has failed (epically) ever since.

    CC.

    --
    TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
  48. yeah, wasteful ... by DerWulf · · Score: 1

    ... sure, we REALLY do need a massive government agency to babysit the internet. They'll guarantee security and do it for pennies. Right!? Right?? Even better, let the army do it. THEY really know efficiency ... What a joke!

    --

    ___
    No power in the 'verse can stop me
  49. Looks like any other international security by Numen · · Score: 1

    But the fact remains that no one really owns security online, which leads to gated communities with firewalls -- a highly unreliable and wasteful way to try to assure security.

    And I'm not seeing how this international security issue is much different from any other which pretty much as long as theres been human history has involved patchwork alliances and federations to stipulate, review, and enforce.

    There's nothing to lament here folks, move along please.

  50. For whom the bell tolls... by Genda · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The "Internet" has become something of a quandry. It's humble beginnings were brilliantly designed to propogate information, provide a powerful environment for collaboration, and provide an extensible virtual universe for spreading and preserving human thought, and projects of discovery. It's one weakness was that it was designed by intelligent, responsible, and compassionate people expecting that in the vein of collaboration and workability, that future users would be likewise intelligent, responsible, and compassionate.

    Much to the chagrin of humanity, a vast hoard of virtual Mongols (or equally apropos "mongrels"), have used the internet as their personal toilet, slim-jim, bludgeon, and/or weapon of mass destruction. Sadly in a free environment, you have to cope with the worst in people, to support and empower that which is best.

    The first problem is to get crystal clear about what doesn't work with the current system. Whether the available cures are(n't) worse than the disease, and how we might implement meaningful solutions without breaking, impeding, or prevent those things which are best about the internet. Security means different things to different people. Protecting people from stupidity, laziness, or the worst in their own natures might well render the broad networks by which people collaborate and invent the future, functionally unusable. Making the worst of what people do very difficult, while preserving the general freedom, and clear capacity for people to share ideas, impart mutual wisdom, and promote what Shakespeare referred to as "Our better natures", demands vision, foresight, and a profound commitment to integrity.

    The first and most essential thing we can and must do, is create an environment that promotes human enterprise, without selling off the very things than make the internet valuable to people.

    1. Re:For whom the bell tolls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Protect people from the worst in their own natures? Because it is up to YOU to judge which in my nature is good and bad? Because it is up to YOU to say what I need to be protected from?

      Last time I checked my passport said I am an adult. I always thought that implies I can make my own free decisions. I do not need and do not want your protection. Especially not from myself.

      The Internet being free is just great. Yes, there are people that do not share my values and that post things I would consider "bad". But it's their choice to look at it! I am not forced to do so myself.

    2. Re:For whom the bell tolls... by Bugs42 · · Score: 1

      It's humble beginnings were brilliantly designed to propogate information, provide a powerful environment for collaboration, and provide an extensible virtual universe for spreading and preserving human thought, and projects of discovery.

      Do you really need all those big words to say "distribute porn" ?

      --
      Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
    3. Re:For whom the bell tolls... by Genda · · Score: 1

      First of all, I went to great length to never use the word "MY" anywhere in my comment. I haven't the wisdom or foresight to make such decisions, and I'm not at all clear any single person or even organization does. It would demand serious collaboration with informed and enlightened people with something resembling a common vision

      There is a whole lot more going on in the internet than people on soapboxes saying things. If the only cost to humanity were having to listen to an occasional dissenting view, I'd personally say "Suck it up, small price to pay for having a forum for you views..."

      Sadly, there are a lot of angry, greedy, nasty, perverted people out there raping children, stealing people's pensions, causing disasters of all shape and size, and the internet is their tool of choice. Just as we have public laws and social infrastructure providing serious consequence to shooting one another in the head on a whim, we need infrastructure in our networks that works better to prevent or at least mitigate gross atrocity. That said, I am as dedicated to full and free self expression of individuals as anybody I know. It's simply important to remember that my self expression ends where yours begins (i.e. we don't or shouldn't get to pave each other over without incurring said consequence.) With great freedom comes great responsibility.

    4. Re:For whom the bell tolls... by Genda · · Score: 1

      Absolutely...

      Because the best porn (or any other interesting human endeavor) has more to say than simply banging meaty bits together! 8-D

  51. Who Protects the Internet? by nomad-9 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    " Who Protects the Internet?" No one yet. And thank God for that.

  52. Re:Net Neutrality: Gov't regulation for the Intern by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hope you don't support Net Neutrality, because that is the Trojan Horse for government regulation of the Internet.

    And the opposition to it is led by those companies who want to be the looters instead. However, as commonly known, the government is inefficient; so it is also inefficient in censoring the Internet. Thus, government control is preferable to corporate control, because it is less likely to be effective.

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  53. Sounds good to me... by itsdapead · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who protects us? 'Basically no one. At most, a number of loose confederations of computer scientists and engineers who seek to devise better protocols and practices

    I.e. the talented people who developed the technology in the first place, and their successors.

    â" unincorporated groups like the Internet Engineering Task Force

    You mean the people who managed one of the most staggeringly successful collection of interoperability standards that, post-OOXML, makes the ISO look like a bunch of clowns?

    I think we're in safe hands - we'd be in even safer hands if the gubment got on with its job of enforcing the anti-trust laws and fixing the patent system leaving the IETF et. al. to get on with thiers.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  54. Who protects my neighborhood? by gavron · · Score: 1
    They're so cute at that age.

    Next thing he'll say it's "wasteful" to have security checkpoints at every airport in the US. "Why don't we just have them at the border?"

    Welcome to the real world. Communities everywhere have realized that we can't count on law enforcement or the military so we HAVE gated communities, closed golf courses, private neighborhoods, etc.

    There's no magic panacea where you can declare "The US" to be a secure network "and all the baddies keep out" and no more need for firewalls. We still have corporate espionage, neighbors who want to avoid being persecuted for kiddie porn using other people's connections, and those evil p2p people downloading F10 or U8.10 or something on that evil "Bittorrent" thing.

    Firewall granularity has spread IN, not OUT of the end system. We've gone from no filtering, to corporate filtering, to per-system filtering. It's not going to magically disappear because "the government has a plan" (which it doesn't, and couldn't.)

    If the military prickyshits* said "The US is safe" the meth-heads are still going to want to come steal the copper off the A/C compressor. If they said "Your city is safe" the meth-heads are still... If they said "Your neighborhood is safe" gated communities would still want to keep the riff-raff** out.

    "I'm from the government, I'm here to help."

    Yeah, and I'm the plumber. I've come to fix the sink. Move aside, let the man go through.***

    Ehud

    * Credit Joseph Heller, Catch-22
    ** Riff-raff defined as that micro-community's undesirables of the moment (in my non-gated neighborhood it's meth-heads)
    *** Credit Super BonBon

  55. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  56. Sounds like the General... by warGod3 · · Score: 1

    Is trying to save the world from itself and protect us from all those horrible, nasty hackers, while padding his resume and justifying his budget and possible budget expansion.

    --
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis
  57. There is a saying.... by 3seas · · Score: 1

    if its not broke...... fix it so that it is.

    Did they ever find WMD in Iraq?

    Same deal here.... its not about security of the "internet" anymore then it is security of any other media, such as paper.

  58. Re:Mammals! by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    http://www.realultimatepower.net/ninja/ninja2.htm

    Now in the Military Edition! See our other product, Ninja.

    Sincerely,

    Nature Enterprises.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  59. Re: Gates & Barbarians by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Which way does that control go?

    Does Bill Gates (& successors) control the barbarians, or do the barbarians control Bill Gates (& successors)?

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  60. What in the hell? by Brew+Bird · · Score: 1

    After reading the article, it is quite clear that these folks are getting caught up in their own metaphors. The only reason you need more power is if you need to defend your self from more powerful forces. On the internet, power, while not equally distributed, is far less disparate than in the 'real world'. Why do I need an Army? In case another tribe decides they want to secure a resource I want, or decides to infringe on my territory. What is the equivalent online? Who is this 'defense' supposed to be against? This reminds me of the 'the poor don't have enough on ramps to the internet' argument. Politicians hear that are start crying how we need 'more money for on ramps to the internet for the poor! we need to build more on ramps!' [facepalm] The Internet community does not need an organization to take responsibility for access security. Where would you draw 'the border'? are we gong to build Great Firewall 2.0 for the US? Maybe we are going to start including commercial data as 'in the national interest' and start sending out fighter planes and smart bombs when someone steals a few million credit cards from a data base in the states? The net result of such policies would mean a lot of money for a few people, less flexibility for the day to day users, and less freedom to do as one sees fit online.

  61. strikeleader sucks the communalist egg by noshellswill · · Score: 1

    Gated. Breakin? BOOM. . Very efficient.

  62. When you make Internet Cops by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

    you are making Big Brother in George Orwell's "1984" because they will watch your Internet usage to make sure you don't break any laws.

    We need to innovate our way out and block virus like code from being transmitted and make better encryption for business transactions.

    Also companies cannot leave hard drives with unencrypted credit card and bank account numbers on it so people can steal them and do identity theft with them or sell the list. They should encrypt the list and not leave the decryption key on the hard drive.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  63. Securit = Control = No thanks by Lostlander · · Score: 2, Insightful

    To truly secure any data stream you have to be able to control it at all points from start to end. If people think that government or large group based security is not going to involve a crapload of lobbied for add-ons and censorship they don't understand the nature of lobbyists.

    The best kind of Security for an open and free(as in rights) internet is individual security. Our computers are something we (or the local network admin) have control over.

  64. Community effort Military effort by unity100 · · Score: 1

    Or any other agency effort.

    just examine how linux, despite being totally decentralized effort, is able to make gains into the total monopoly a corporation like microsoft had, and you'll see the superiority of communal defense.

    note that microsoft has much more budget than many government agencies. and even many countries.

    so this article is practically a blatant attempt to make people believe into letting some jerky government control the internet. whomever wrote and propagated this article should be beaten with a thick stick - only that can beat sense into them.

  65. Who Protects the Internet? by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

    No one, it is to be hoped.

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
  66. PAUL VIXIE protects the Internets! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who can slap down Chuck Norris with one hand and out-code Bruce Schneir with the other?

    It's PAUL VIXIE of Vixie Labs!

    Paul is unbeatable because, unlike Chuck and Bruce, he is MEAN. Meaner than a rabid wolverine!

    Paul is my hero.

  67. I don't know who defend it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... but porn keep it healthy :D

  68. Xbox? Denied! by professorguy · · Score: 1
    Now, if a federal department had such traffic crossing its borders, they'd have a rapid deployment team there within minutes to figure out what happened.

    No, they wouldn't have to. Microsoft's request to allow the Xbox to use the "officially secured" internet would have been denied. So...no problem.

    Unless, of course, you consider destroying all future novel uses of the internet a problem.

  69. On the dangers of specious generalizations by Medievalist · · Score: 1

    People who carry guns for protection get shot

    If this were true (it is not, in my own personal experience) it would most likely be because people who need to carry guns are more likely to be in situations where they are in danger. I have plenty of friends who carry and only one of them has ever been shot; he was shot on two separate occasions while completely unarmed, which is why he carries now.

    Blue Screen of Death, et cetera, censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

    1. Re:On the dangers of specious generalizations by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      ...and I do not know anyone who carries a gun (except one friend who is in an Police armed response unit) and no-one I know has ever been shot, threatened with a gun, or seen anyone shot (except the aforementioned Police friend)

      Where I live (UK) you do not see people with guns (except police and army) and it is normal, except in a very few areas, for people to have no knowledge of gun crime and to know no-one who has ever experienced it ...this is what it is like living in a anti-gun society

      In the UK 50 people were injured or killed in a gun related incident last year, this includes people hit on the head with guns and run over by a car with a gun in it .... ...what do you have against Carthage?

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    2. Re:On the dangers of specious generalizations by d20_techie · · Score: 1

      That's ok. While difficult to sneak up on someone(at least most people with brains) knives are both more quiet and harder to trace. Plus, I would rather have my head blown-off than have my throat cut or be stabbed in the kidneys. Lesser forms of weaponry do not preclude the advent of crime(to include non-violent), they just require greater skill and more stealth.

  70. Its so obvious what needs to be done by dilvish_the_damned · · Score: 1

    Yess, its very waitsfuls for uss to do its for ourselves. The governments should protects us and handles our internets safeties. Lets the governments do its. ( not sure what I was channeling right there )

    Besides, they are soo good at it. I mean, hes got medals to prove it ( not that I am detracting from his awards, I just doubt many of them are in man-in-the-middle warfare ).

    My personal favorite part:

    Such an attack has the potential to turn the US âoefrom being a superpower to a third-world nation practically overnight.â

    Like the east coast blackout caused it to be Thailand for three days.
    Get a grip.

    --
    I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
  71. Military+Industrial=FUBAR by techsquirrel · · Score: 1

    Yeah, like STRATCOM is going to make the world safer by locking down the Internet, as if they could. As is "safety" is correlated to how tightly information flow is controlled. Let's see, do we have any other examples of societies that based "security" on information control? China, the former Soviet Union, ... oh yeah! Totalitarian regimes!! STRATCOM should go back into the hole from which it emerged. And tightly enforce information flow to and from its tiny, wretched, paranoid little domain.

  72. Internet Man! by mooingyak · · Score: 1

    Internet Man, help, I'm being flooded with spam!

    Fear not young web surfer, I'll save you!

    --
    William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
  73. This is a good thing by NitroWolf · · Score: 1

    This is a good thing. The "protection" is decentralized, just like the greater internet. As such, you can't attack any one entity to compromise the protection. It's working as designed.

  74. Lets put soldiers in your place of business/home! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What hogwash. Who protects the internet in the datacenters around here? The employees, the customers who own the devices in question, etc.

    Apparently the gov thinks that doing what is akin to putting military soldiers and tanks into every home and business location to "protect us".

    How silly.

  75. Gated Communities by ratboy666 · · Score: 1

    Is the classic model. It works. I have my private network, and it provides SOME services, including email exchange.

    But, the security of my "community" is my own concern. After all -- who should I trust? The government? My upstream provider? No thanks.

    Now, I (as many other operators) do share information on security. But that is a voluntary activity. The buck still stops here.

    The current set of laws support this attitude as well. There is a considerable base of law around "unauthorized computer access", but really nothing around "unauthorized network access". When the net was young, we all strove to deliver packets as best as we were able. Now, we are pickier about packets flowing through our systems (blocking outgoing port 25 for example, or not allowing mail relaying).

    I am against a central authority. I don't see how it would work (be authoritative) and still give me the flexibility to control my own network. There are only two "commons" services that I consider mandatory; DNS and email. Email is already under attack, and we have survived (although I would like to hold in reserve the right to beat spammers to a pulp). This leaves DNS (specifically the root servers) as the most important and vulnerable common resource (from my perspective). I (my community) *could* get by with hosts lists in a pinch, though, which mitigates the risk somewhat (considering web: google/slashdot/etc. access not immediately critical to my network use).

    --
    Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
  76. There's actually a bunch of them out there... by bkbarber · · Score: 1

    Well, I'm actually in the ISP business. The people who "protect" the internet do it with strict views which can help weed out the bad guys, but usually ends up hurting lots of innocent users along the way. Spamhaus is a great example. Spam Nazis. You can have 1 bad customer using 1 IP and they'll blacklist an entire /20. Some others... NSA (collect, monitor, trace all communication), RIAA (enforce copyright DMCA throughout the world), DIA (coordinates all US intelligence agencies), ARIN (actually assigns, allocates, and manages all the IP's). These are just some of the agencies out there. Then you got security companies like RSA that'll take down your company with a law suit in minutes if you don't bow down to them. It's a bunch of different companies managing different aspects of security, usually overlapping. I can tell you though, the best protection is some routing statements, a firewall, and linux :) -Whatever happened to the freedom of and from religion?

  77. Impossible, by design by zorro-z · · Score: 1

    The Internet was designed to be almost completely decentralized. That's part of the reason for the urban myth that it was designed to survive a nuclear war; quite literally, it *can* continue to work even were multiple hubs vaporized.

    As a result of this extreme decentralization, it is just as impossible to protect the entire Internet as it is do destroy it. That being said, (relatively) small parts of it *can* be protected, at least in part, by technologies with which we're all familiar: firewalls, etc. This is, of course, very much partial protection, but in a system as wide open- by design- as the Internet, that's about the best you're going to get.

    --
    -Z
  78. Re:Net Neutrality: Gov't regulation for the Intern by Azghoul · · Score: 1

    Yeah, because corporate control of the Internet has been incredibly successful so far.

    Oh wait...

  79. But, Who protects.... by MonotremeAttack · · Score: 1

    ...the Protectmen?

  80. "The internet" is not a computer, it's a network by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    Nobody needs to protect "the internet", you just have to protect "your computer". If there are any security flaws they should be fixed in software. Regulation won't stop crackers/phishers, they already operate without regards to the law.

  81. Federated systems are better for privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

    Help gather data on our citizens, without those pesky court documents.

    Help capture data into a central location to be easily hacked for foreign countries and/or the teenager around the corner.

    Help use share this data for the common "good" of the country - not necessarily the good of the individual being harassed.

    Yes, we should trust our governments to protect us ... regardless of which privacy rights we give up. Protection is more important, right?

  82. No such thing as "military security" by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

    "Military intelligence" is a known oxymoron. So is "military security."

    Dick Marcinko and his RED CELL SEAL Team proved that years ago. They penetrated US Navy nuclear sub bases, Naval Intelligence HQ, US embassies around the world, Air Force One, and got several SEALS with several pounds of C4 within twenty yards of the President's cottage at Camp David.

    There is no such think as "military security". Putting these numbnuts in charge of the Internet would be a disaster.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  83. Re: Gates & Barbarians by ReedYoung · · Score: 1

    I'm glad my spurious capitalization-based joke was noticed. It would have been more literally accurate to capitalize the second occurrence of the string "gates" in that sentence but traditionally a punch line comes closer to the end. Sorry for the confusion. To answer your question, I'd say Gates is an enabler of the barbarians more than either their controller or puppet.

    --
    "I can't imagine how things could get any worse!" (some guy) "That could just be failure of imaginatioÂn on your p
  84. ever more critical a system by evilmousse · · Score: 1

    my first reaction was as most of the posts I've read, disdaining the fencing in of my beloved wild west. not quite with the vitrol i saw, but still.

    but i also remember sharing disdain with writers here when i read about banking systems and such being connected to the net. and even not going so dramatic, a LOT of business is done on the net, and i've wondered just when in the future it will become a primary military target in war. and for all the money we throw at defense, i wonder whether the net has become a valuable enough asset to warrant a significantly larger consideration than i imagine it to currently receive.

    i hope they have the wisdom to perpetuate the decentralized approach to network security that founded it in the first place.

  85. What the hell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    which leads to gated communities with firewalls â" a highly unreliable and wasteful way to try to assure security.

    This has to be the most ignorant & moronic statement I've heard today, & I worked 10 hours in an inbound call center at an ISP.
    I'm really at a loss at how absolutely DUMB this statement is, but here goes....

    This is like saying that it is more efficient and cost-effective to pay enough cops so that we don't have to use locks any more. Just have the cops protect everything that needs locking, then you don't have to use a lock!

    The MOST cost-effective AND efficient security mechanism is to force traffic (or attackers, etc.) to funnel through a SINGLE CHOKEPOINT, which can then be defended, thereby defending everything that leads to it... JUST like the way we use firewalls to create gates.

    Utter, Epic, FAIL.

  86. SSL by mahadiga · · Score: 1

    SSL should protect Internet and its users.

    --
    I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
  87. In 2012... by victoria_jwp_fang · · Score: 1

    Gov. Sarah Palin becomes the first female to serve as the US President. As the unprotected Internet reminds her dearly of a particular un-wedded pregnant 18 year old Alaskan girl, Sarah has come up with a magnificent solution.

    The appointment of Joe the Plumber as the Secretary of the Series-of-Tubes. His first mission is to fix all the vulnerabilities the tubes face. Once that is done, he can reinstall the existing tubes and make it more efficient.

    Now, that's killing 2 birds with 1 stone... I mean 2 mooses with 1 bullet. Sarah finally gets her moment to represent the Hockey Moms league, Joe can earn a living (because earning 250k a year is NOTHING), and good old Teddy can now enjoy streaming 10 movies on his personal Internet while receiving Internets immediately - unlike the days when his staff would send him an Internet on a Friday and it wasn't received til the following Tuesday.

    Sounds like a good plan to me...? :)

  88. "Gated communities" by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    gated communities with firewalls â" a highly unreliable and wasteful way to try to assure security.

    What about locking the front door to your home?

  89. Romania??? by ansc · · Score: 1

    First of all i agree with the fact that the internet doesn't need protection. Secondly the article at techcrunch is kinda funny: "The Chinese military has openly stated that it plans to be able to win an âoeinformationized warâ by the middle of this century. Russia, Israel and Romania are also alleged to have high-level cyber warfare capabilities." Actually i am from Romania and here we all plan to "own" the entire internet and boost our falling economy with the ransom money ! The attack will comence on 1st of January. The internet is doomed! You have been warned! Si vom introduce obligatoriu limba romana pe toate forumurile :) Now seriously, how come Romania does have "cyber warfare capabilities" ?!?!? I live here for crying out loud! The trough is different. Here 70% of PCs run pirated windoze, many of them with updates turned off, no firewall, no antivirus. Lots of these machinese are part of botnets created by people from other countrys. That is why a lot of attacks originate from Romania. The fact is that the average computer user here is an idiot, just like anywhere in the world. Of course there are also cyber criminals here, but to imply that the Romanian Army has "cyber warfare capabilities" is just plain stupid.