Slashdot Mirror
Toshiba To OEM Laptops With OpenSolaris
ruphus13 writes to tell us of Sun's latest attempt to drive OpenSolaris adoption. The company has inked a deal to pre-install OpenSolaris on Toshiba laptops. "Slowly but surely, major laptop vendors are taking to the idea of shipping systems with pre-loaded open source operating systems. The latest case in point is Toshiba — one of the longest-standing players in the market for portable computers — and its new plan to pre-install Sun Microsystems' OpenSolaris on its laptops. The machines are supposed to ship in early 2009."
This will help a lot.
Why go with Solaris and not Linux?
In terms of usability and functionality for a Laptop Solaris would be at a disadvantage to Linux and even Windows. Unless you job is to write and compile and or run Solaris X86 Apps. Then you are in general at a disadvantage to Linux which has more application written for it, communicates very well with Solaris Based Type Networks, As far as End User is concerned Linux and Solaris really look so much alike that it wouldn't be much of a learning curve.
Solaris is superior as a server OS. But for a desktop Laptop OS... Why?
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
What exactly is the selling point here? I can see how ZFS is enticing for servers, and perhaps a narrow range of power users, but most FOSS stuff is more work to install on Solaris (Open or otherwise).
Perhaps on a two-harddisk laptop ZFS is an interesting option.
Sun has the Novell problem: a bunch of whiners can't stop complaining about them with no good reason.
Not totally. Java isn't going anywhere (Microsoft hates Java), OpenOffice.org isn't going anywhere (Microsoft hates OpenOffice.org), OpenSolaris isn't going anywhere and Sun's partnerships with Canonical (Ubuntu), Red Hat and Novell/SuSE aren't going anywhere either.
Everyone thinks Microsoft is the only company to play dirty and use alliances as a means of a trap. Companies like Sun and IBM invented these tricks.
My blog
You can use it as a verb, albeit rather confusingly: "to OEM" something means they take another, "original equipment manufacturer" product and package it and sell it under their own brand, usually as part of a larger product. So a system builder would OEM an Intel CPU, and a Microsoft mouse, say. It's a kind of reselling. The OEM doesn't OEM anything strangely enough. I'm not sure it works with software, as the original branding is left alone, it's usually just called preinstalling or bundling. On the other hand the original branding of the mouse or CPU is also left intact, and the latter prominently displayed on the packaging.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
What a slap in the face for GNU/Linux - again.
Ubuntu *works* on Dell equipment - believe it or not!
OpenSolaris will fail. Bad move on Toshiba's part.
Webcams seem to be high on the list of laptop users of today. Does OpenSolaris have many webcam drivers? Or maybe they went with the simple solution. Include a webcam and have a driver ready for it.
the next obvious move?
MS to scrap the OEM tax and instead install an OS that is free for 30 days and then asks you to did into your wallet and type in a credit card number.
MS will never allow this to continue without a fight, they drop the prices or allowed older operating systems anywhere they can to ensure machines are shipped with their OS.
It seems clear that threatening OEMS with more a expensive windows tax if they do not cooperate is becoming less effective these days.
They might even give the OS away free if they have no choice at all and get money back on cloud, upgrades, applications and web services. But I cannot see them ever willingly accepting PCs sold in large numbers without windows.
But I have a feeling it won't last long... OpenSolaris is even more niche that FreeBSD. Once it's obvious the cost of giving people the choice is more than the the extra business it brings in it'll get dropped like a stone.
Sun and Microsoft are not mortal enemies, but that doesn't mean they're in bed with each other. They're interests seem to coincide in many areas. Sun's strategy is to sell as many of their products, interoperating with as many 3rd party products as possible. That's why they've become a Windows OEM.
Are you seriously going to tell Schwartz that if one of his customers asks for a Windows box running on commodity hardware with a Java stack that he should turn down that business? Get real! Sun has to cooperate with Microsoft to ensure that setup goes smoothly.
So please explain how Sun's cooperation with Microsoft equates to Novell's desperate sellout?
This space left intentionally blank.
Welcome to the English language, where any noun can be verbed. (I was trying to be funny but turns out "any noun can be verbed" is all over the web already)
You just got troll'd!
yeah, but Microsoft is so good, that it shafted IBM themselves!
Verbing weirds language.
I bet customs will have some fun trying to look at all of your files on that thing. I've only played around with OpenSolaris for a few hours in a virtual machine, but from what I've seen, it's locked down pretty tight.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Never mind OpenSolaris, or Windows, or BSD or other flavours of Linux. There's only one OS that can do it all with finesse and security, and that's Ninnle Linux. This is where Tosh should be going.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I know you're trolling and all but anyways I really don't get the point this story is trying to make.
You just got troll'd!
I feel bad for Microsoft. They are getting hit from multiple quarters. Dell wants to ship Linux with laptops and now toshiba with Open solaris. Apple is expanding their notebook sales. In this economy, people need to protect our flagship company. I think this can solved by govt. by providing a bailout package of $30 billion to MS. Please call your representatives and senators so they can save our Flagship company.
You not knowing the reasons because you choose to ignore them, does not mean there are none. It means you're an ignorant asshole.
Nobody's asking the right questions.
1) Why is Toshiba doing this? This will make them money either directly (Sun is paying them with either money or services) or indirectly (Toshiba wants to get a better deal from Microsoft).
2) Why is Sun doing this? I think they want to drive adoption of OpenSolaris among the open source developers that would normally use Linux. The low-hanging fruit is probably Java devs like me who would otherwise prefer to use Linux.
The market for developer workstations is not small, even the market for Java developers. Just look at how much of a stink Apple created when they left initially Java 6 off Leopard (now it's available for 64-bit Intel Macs only).
This space left intentionally blank.
Maybe the next bios patch for my Toshiba will not completely fux Linux access to hardware again. Do I dare chance it? They might even have re-enabled VT. I'm soooo tempted. But the last 4 times I had to rebuild, hack, and rebuild to get hardware to work again. But if they are going to support OpenSolaris... But what if my fears are correct and the bios update makes my machine a Vista only POS. I'm soooo torn.
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/general-10/warning-there-is-windows-in-my..-bios-544779/#post2705017
http://forums.computers.toshiba-europe.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=61084
I will never buy a Toshiba Laptop EVER again. The assembly is shoddy, the hardware is the cheapest low grade crap they can put together, and the support is the worst on earth.
They are hunting for an Open Source OS that they can put on it for free (but charge you), that has very little hardware support so they don't have the shit storm of "why did you fuck this up" questions on their Linux support forums. It will take 2 years, max, for OpenSolaris to get to the same place (hardware support wise) as Linux. By then the laptop will no longer be supported.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
I think it's an elaboration on the text found here. At least that's what came up when I Googled "God was busy so he sent me" ;)
A pretty interesting offtopic/troll to say the least.
I bet Sun is 'paying' for this with a guarentee of a minimum customer base - expect to see Toshiba notebooks in the hallways at Sun facilities. Right now I see allot Macs running Solaris at Sun facilities and most Sun employees have XP installed on their non-Mac notebooks.
I like Solaris but there is essentially zero market demand for Solaris on notebooks.
/LabMonkey09
I'm typing this from OpenSolaris 2008.11 and I'm actually surprised how "desktop-friendly" Solaris has actually become. The default GNOME-based desktop is gorgeous and works well. Hardware support may not be all that broad, but when hardware is supported it's REALLY supported: even booting off the live CD, my Atheros wireless card, NVidia 3D card and crappy on-mobo sound were "auto-magically" detected and set up. Performance is also quite snappy, even on my aging Athlon XP 3000+ with a measly 1 GB of RAM. In short, OpenSolaris is more than up to the task of working on Toshiba's new laptops.
That will fix most of the problems you will run into with Solaris. Other than that, it's a solid OS. Why they would put that Network Auto-Magic shit in, I have no clue.
The game.
In Soviet Russia, nouns verb you!!!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
ZFS snapshots
Seriously:
If I could have Solaris as an option, I would take it. There's a justifiable niche here.. Solaris is a supported alterna-UNIX with class
leading development tools.
If OpenSolaris provided the second-best iPhone application development environment, it would be strong enough to justify the move.
If Sun takes the opportunity to bundle and better integrate OpenOffice with their new Enterprise Desktop, and add all sorts of security and platform robustness choices, it might have a chance.
There's enough technology present in Solaris to make a reasonable case for allowing it to compete against the much unloved Vista for Business, especially when Linux has taken the first wave of public criticism (Eee PC, Ubuntu, et al.)
If they can somehow coordinate a "Shake 'n' Bake" style maneuver with Apple (iPhone/Solaris/Dev with Apple/Sun/ZFS backend and iPhone integration) it could be a very good thing.
Apple will never take the Corporate Desktop summit, and I seriously believe they have stopped caring. Perhaps Sun recognizes this as well.
By far, the most ridiculous idea I have read in a very, very long time.
I mean, if Linux has trouble going mainstream, Slowaris is gonna take forever to gain any kind of traction in that space. Nothing trully userland runs fine in that thing, you cant play almost anything and GNU software, while very good when integrated by people in the know (like the linux distro guys), is a pain to make work fine in that other thing.
Anyhow: Sun, Toshiba, the worst of luck to you.
NO SIG
I'm not sure if it's that the OEMs think they can sell that many, it's that they think Microsoft can't stop them any more.
We'll not know how many they could have sold before, because it's only recently that they've dared to try.
Microsoft is like a castle under siege, there's an attack from Asus on one wall, then IBM on another, then Dell at the main gate, now Toshiba... Each wave is beaten back, but the defenders look increasingly shaky.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
How will it fail? Marketing, support, and supported hardware, plus ready to go out of the box always seems to work IMO.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
I wouldn't exactly consider the target audience for it to be slashdot though.
Y'know on account of many of its members not being the most religious
Will SUN pay a part of cost of laptops? :)
Perhaps I overstated the case. But I'm sure they were never happy about Microsoft telling them what software they can and can't ship preinstalled.
Seagate don't fine you if you put Hitachi disks in some of your machines. If they do, or ever did, the analogy is fair and I stand corrected.
I agree that if anybody are going to go after them, it's be IBM. If only for revenge. Having said that, HP aren't exactly a non-player in terms of software. I've said before that either could, if they wanted to, make a Linux distro that would get mass acceptance.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Karma Overflow.
DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
Seagate don't fine you if you put Hitachi disks in some of your machines. If they do, or ever did, the analogy is fair and I stand corrected.
I would imagine if you've signed an exclusive supplier contract with Seagate and received a tidy discount for doing so, then Seagate find out you're putting Hitachi drives in their laptops, they'd be inclined to "fine" you (and quite justified in doing so).
I'm sure Seagate would give you the option of a non-exclusive contract. And there's more than one company you can buy hard drives from. Neither of those is the situation with Micrsoft and Windows.
But it was nice hearing from you, Bill.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If it is intended to be religious proselytizing, I think it fails pretty well... I think it is more of a disturbed, absurd parody of religious propaganda. But yes, it is completely off-topic :D
Many people will say, "will it play my ITunes collection?" -- and then ask why they should pay an extra $500 or so to upgrade their whole collection to be DRM-free. It's the main reason my father is back to Windows XP, rather than Ubuntu.
I would imagine if you've signed an exclusive supplier contract with Seagate and received a tidy discount for doing so, then Seagate find out you're putting Hitachi drives in their laptops, they'd be inclined to "fine" you (and quite justified in doing so).
I think the difference here is that hard-drives are a commodity, and operating systems are only just starting to become so. In other words most people don't really care (or even know) which HD you put in a machine. They do care which OS you put in the machine.
Thus Microsoft has had a lot more power to strong arm the OEMs with exclusivity agreements than a HD maker ever would.
AccountKiller
That was funny, not offtopic.
Hey, Mods, how is this offtopic? He answered the guys question, which, was itself (somewhat) on topic. Sheesh.
Really, I personally think OpenSolaris is coming along quite nicely since Ian Murdock is managing things but that's a different comment.
If they can make a toshiba laptop suspend and hybernate flawlessly that would be awesome. Maybe I'll even make the switch. Unix is Unix.
"If a show of teeth is not enough, bite
Seeing the current trends in this field, the competition between the major open source OSes(now) themselves and with Windows, will the *BSD variants get even more sidelined ? Guess someone won't be happy about the news.
Not very smart if the only offering other than Windows is Solaris. Solaris has less penetration than Linux, meaning smaller market.
There should also be a 'no OS' option so I don't have to pay whatever they will add to get the OS on the laptop above the laptop's hardware price even though the OS is free.
How about a 'bare-metal' hypervisor laptop running several OS at once? I can develop for several OS using one machine.
On the other hand, its about time.
Her lips were softer than a duck's bill, but her quacks
Yeah, it's interesting enough to be fully read, but I still really don't get the point of it. Unless it's as you said a parody of similar-sounding religious stories, in which case it would be amusing if a disambiguating context was provided.
You just got troll'd!
Port Valgrind and I would probably start using OpenSolaris for development. I have it running under VirtualBox right now, kind of nice.
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
Assessing the interest this post generated by the rank ranges, I dare not make predictions how well Solaris will sell once in Wall*Mart (provided WallMart still exists when that happens...) (Thanks, I'll be here all week [as a piñata]).
Seriously, what the hell.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
What is the difference between this one and the rest of the other "Solaris on a cookie-cutter, flimsy ODM" portables?
Only if they were to find a source for S-IPS/AFFS screens and a non-tablet form factor (read: no integrated video or oversized 17" screens) would I be moved.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
HAHAHAHA,
just an example: Excluding myself, I personally know 5 persons with Toshiba laptops running Linux. We are all unable to use the build in Toshiba SD card controller because bl**dy Toshiba flat out refuses to release *ANY* information for this bloody SD card controller. Does anybody think that this ignorant attitude would get any better with Open Solaris ? I don't think so.
So until this controller finally gets supported for Linux by Toshiba they will never again see any money from around here - not with Windows, not with Linux and not even with Solaris.
lspci:
01:0d.0 System peripheral: Toshiba America Info Systems SD TypA Controller (rev 03)
Cheers
Max
US car companies have ignored the future for 40 years, fighting every environmental and fuel economy standard that would have make them competitive.
Ever hear the expression "a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse"?
The Linux desktop market is currently so small that it's hard to distinguish it from the 0% market share of Solaris.
Java isn't going anywhere
Do you own a cell phone, by any chance?
Do you still take "java is dead" posts serious enough to reply?
Desktop Java woke up from dead right after MS was disallowed to put that junk JVM into Windows and Sun made a end user friendly Java.com site which installs Java way easier than MS .NET with a comical download size (14 mb I guess).
The comments you see about Java is people who ignores huge numbers of end user Java desktop downloads, App scene (Azureus/Vuze and Limewire leading) and the enterprise scene. When they say "Java sux", they talk about 1999's MS raped Java.
Have you ever been to a Sun office recently?
Sun employees carry with them and intelligent card that they use to login to their account in any machine in their campus.
The point I am trying to make is that Solaris will be more integrated with big enterprises where Solaris is the norm already.
As for Linux having more application written for it, you are one compiling away for getting more applications working in Solaris. Some companies actually pick up the Linux code, clean it and deploy it for their own need in Solaris (note they don't need to redistribute anything ).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Gnome is being tightly integrated with ZFS, you will have functionality in OpenSolaris that you will not see for a while, if at all, in Linux.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I had xubuntu 8.1 running om my old HP ze4220 with 512mb or ram, and 1.7ghz celuron processor. I decided to try opensolaris 2008.5.
Xunbuntu won hands down, in every measurable way. I could never get music, or movies, to play on opensolaris. Also, I was never able to read .chm file on opensolaris. Xubuntu was also faster to install, and booted up faster. Opensolaris was not terrrible, it just wasn't as nice as xubuntu.
Neither OS could detect my wireless NIC. XP runs noticeably faster than either xubuntu or opensolaris, and xp does detect my wireless nic.
Again, just my experience.
The top command in Linux is compiled very inefficiently, it doesn't make proper use of local name services like NIS+ or LDAP, in some conditions it could bring your network to its knees by the equivalent of a denial of service attack on your name servers.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
MAJOR work has been done in OpenSolaris 2008.11 (now available) to support a wider array of hardware since even the 2008.05 release. There's a good chance your wireless device will now be supported on OpenSolaris out-of-the-box, as they say.
Due to licensing restrictions, of which most people forget MP3 is proprietary, you need to get a license to download the MP3 GStreamer plugin on OpenSolaris. The license is free from Fluendo's website, but requires registration. Registration, downloading, and installation takes just a few minutes and is completely legitimate.
IMHO, there are many compelling reasons to run OpenSolaris over GNU/Linux which overcome the slight advantages you've described in Ubuntu's installation process (which really is slick).
Don't forget Open Office (not entirely but for wizards and other things). And education.
Seriously, it's like saying "steak is dead". I don't know if I was trolled or what.