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"See-Through" Touchscreen Solves Fat Finger Problem
Urchin sends along a New Scientist writeup on Microsoft Research's nanoTouch prototype, a way of operating a touch screen from the rear (video here). The prototype will be presented at the Computer and Human Interaction conference in Boston, Mass., in April 2009. Coming soon to a wristwatch or neck pendant near you. "Electronic devices have been shrinking for years, but you might be forgiven for thinking that one that's only a centimeter across would be just too difficult to operate. Microsoft Research's new nanoTouch device suggests otherwise. Touch-screens are difficult to control with any precision — the fingers get in the way of the tiny targets you're trying to hit. But putting the touch interface on the rear of the screen instead gives users more precision because they can still see the whole screen as they interact with it. Microsoft Research has produced a prototype device called nanoTouch with a rear-mounted touch interface. User tests show it lets users accurately and reliably hit targets just 2 millimeters across on a screen under a centimeter across."
but I don't like it when people operate things from the rear.
"Micro"soft.
I'll be here all weekend, folks!
Does anybody else think that eventually we might see some sort of tiny "stylus pad" that fits round the end of a finger? It could be a little white dot, so we can see where we're "clicking", there-by further decreasing fat finger syndrome.
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This is first thing in a long time from Microsoft that has truly impressed me. Amazing what you can accomplish with a little fear of competition. If this is truly novel, nice job!
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
I solved the fat finger problem by cutting off your fingers and making them into jerky!
It's a festive Christmas jerky for you to enjoy. Now...eat your own finger! Eat it!
(Just kidding guys, I would only do that if you owed me like, $2000 or more.) Merry Christmas =)
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Non-intuitive, awkward, and from the video it has "shadows" of your fingers with quite a big of jitter so it's hard to tell what you're doing anyway.
Touch technology is just crap anyway. Just give me a device with some buttons on it and stop trying to "improve" things by making them worse.
Operator: The fingers you have used to dial are too fat. To obtain a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your palm now.
"I may be full of crap about this game, and I may be wrong, and that's fine." -Jack Thompson
This is a great idea. It effectively doubles the real-estate usable for interface. You won't get smudges on the screen now. It's more comfortable like they said.
With bigger screen people could even sit opposite you and you could watch what they do.
A face to face game of transparent screen checkers would be sweet.
Can you hear Steve Jobs cursing M$ extra loud today? Not being able to enter text is one (of myriad) reasons why I'd never get an iPhone. In fact, it seems like an incredibly interesting technology which will be almost certainly never used in anything other than M$ products...
Some of the inherent inaccuracy has to do with using touchscreen devices while walking, driving (in-car controls), riding mass transit, etc. Under these conditions, even 1cm accuracy is pretty good. I think most users would prefer a larger interface that works every time, rather than a smaller one which can be frustrating to use on a regular basis.
Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
Yes! They solved the fat-finger problem! Now I won't need to get on a diet and give up greasy, greasy foods, AND I get to play with my toys. Bring in the fried chicken!
SSC
The somewhat impressive "shadows" of hands seemed laggy and awkward, while it appeared that you actually have to already be touching the back of the smaller device to see where your finger is.
I suppose it's a step towards the future, though.
Why does the screen have to be see-through? Why not just have a touchpad on the back that operates a cursor on the front without any change in existing tech?
This is a dupe from two weeks ago.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
This could only work if you had the actual touch screen at the usual keyboard-height level facing down at a 45 degree angle away from you in front of a double-mirror (think periscope) so that you would be looking at the actual mirrored display at or the usual monitor-height level and operating the touch-screen from behind at the usual keyboard-height level. That way you'd keep your eyes on the doubly-mirrored image and operating it (blind touching) at the usual keyboard-height level.
http://www.slashgear.com/apple-patent-shifts-controls-to-rear-of-ipod-105191/
Yes, it's a novel idea and hopefully one that will catch on. However, it's certainly not practical for "proper" monitors, or coffee-table sized thingys (like the toy microsoft demo'd a couple of years ago). Although I suppose in those cases, there is less need for small targets, as FFS is less of a problem
I still think the whole concept of touch screens for office use is fundementally flawed. It requires you to have your arms raised to operate the screen - which is an unnatural position and very tiring to do for long periods of time. It does look impressive on s.f. files - with guys wavinhg their arms around. However, in terms of results obtained for human energy expended they're very inefficient and I suspect the consequences would make RSI claims pale into insignificance.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Yep, it's a scam. I can see right through it.
So we have a 5x5 button grid, something casio has done w/ wrist calculators for 20+ years
Wouldn't it be simpler to just place a cell phone call to a pool of typists and have them log into your PDA and type the stuff you wanted.
Nullius in verba
You'll need more real estate if you can't put electronics behind the screen. I guess you could have a flip up semi-transparent touch screen. Use it from the front when it's down and from the back when you flip it up.
Ya, I tried pressing my watch from the back, but my wrist got in the way. On the up side, my pulse is strong.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
First, one cm across is a pretty hard to hit target. We're below that already anyway, but let's say one cm. That I "cover" the target with my finger shouldn't be that much of a problem, I guess. People are usually able to memorize the location of that icon they want to press for the fraction of a second it takes to press it. So if it's under my finger, I press it. Easy, huh?
Now, reaching around and tapping it from behind is a bit more tricky. You have to think reverse. It's not as bad as looking in the mirror trying to hit the streak of hair that doesn't budge (left... no the other left... front... I mean, away from you... you get the idea), but it still requires you to adjust to a new way of tapping.
Personally, I don't really want that. I prefer my good ol' fashion touch displays. Now get offa my lawn!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Google's already got working prototypes of see-thru fingers.
How can you hit a target of 2mm when your finger is a centimeter across?
I would hate to have to use an interface that actually relied on having this level of accuracy from the inputdev. even if they can extract a really good model of where you apply the pressure to the screen, it's not exactly trivial, or even possible, to turn that into an "intended point" or path.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Looks uncomfortable and unnatural for normal phone / PDA functionality if you ask me. I think typing would end up being more difficult.
It does add an interesting dynamic to non typing applications though. Game apps like the FPS in the video look like they would be a big improvement.
Gameboy / traditional handheld style buttons that are all pressed with the same finger (thumb) don't work well because you are likely to brush the wrong button when moving your thumb from A to B. However if the rest of your fingers wrapped around to "buttons" on the back user input would be much more accurate because you could get more "buttons" without making the user move their fingers along the plane of touch sensitivity as much.
...they are often larger than the push button gadgets they replace, according to...Microsoft Research in Redmond, Washington.
Last year, Baudisch and Daniel Wigdor of Mitsubishi Electric Research Labs (MERL) in Cambridge, Massachusetts, led a team that developed a fix to that. Their "transparent" LucidTouch device let users interact with a screen from the reverse side
I'm not even sure why the name Microsoft is mentioned in TFA...unless the same guy works for MS in Washington and HPI in Potsdam?
What we really need is a screen that gives you feedback on where you are about to click. If you had a range of sensitivity, your cursor and click could be activated at different pressures (or distances, creating a 'non-touch' screen with less/no wear) Converging dots or a shrinking circle could replace the cursor and show you how close you are to activating it. If you showed where the system 'thought' your finger was, you could even offset the cursor out from behind your finger!
I celebrate Festivus, you insensitive clod!
Seriously, I told you I would have your money for you by Thursday!
Yeah except it's counterintuitive to how one normally writes. I mean, seeing your hand/finger from upside down/backwards, would me (almost) like suddenly drawing or writing inside out or backwards. Think about it.... if your finger is UNDER the device, sure, you can see it better, but you want to draw what appears to your eye, a line that goes left to right. Except your hand would be physically drawing it right to left. Bad idea. Bad.
There, I said it.
I suppose the real advantage of this, is that your Cheeto encrusted hands don't smear the screen you are trying to read.
That would be one mighty thin iPhone. Let's see Apple come up with that one!
Wow that would be one mighty thin iPhone. Lets see Apple come up with that one!
...gives you the courtesy of a reach-around.
Damn you double posts! I need one of those touchscreens. I fat fingered it!
People could get off their fat ass, and exercise. Volia! No fat fingers! I know, I know, some people are born big and tall. I come from a farming family.
Just let me use a stylus dammit.
So what's this? A solution to the problem with the solution that lacked a problem? Can we just stop now please?
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
When will Microsoft be coming out with the miniClassic?
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
You will see more Macs displayed prominently in movies that you will PC's.
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
And of course this device will run Windows (F*ing) Mobile 6.1. That is if they manage to attach any sort of enough RAM to it. I want to get one so I can flash it with Android and show off.
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/apple-patent-reveals-dual-sided-handheld-device/9974
The most comfortable variant of this would be a device in landscape orientation with six softkeys on the back, thumbs and pinkies holding the device. I can see touch screen typing really working if it's implemented that way.
Would have mentioned it myself that Apple already has the patent.
-- Boycott Shell
At least a device that could teach the male population where the G spot is located.
The only problem to solve now is to find girlfriends to take the benefit of that, but that only is a matter of time when word gets out. Which solves another problem - if the geek can make the transition from VR to RL. :-)
Big is less portable, they want to use this tech for interfacing displays the size of watches.