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More Evidence For a Clovis-Killer Comet
fortapocalypse sends word that a new paper was published today in the journal Science on the hypothesis that a comet impact wiped out the Clovis people 12,900 years ago. (We discussed this hypothesis last year when it was put forth.) The new evidence is a layer of nanodiamonds at locations all across North America, at a depth corresponding to 12,900 years ago, none earlier or later. The researchers hypothesize that the comet that initiated the Younger Dryas, reversing the warming from the previous ice age, fragmented and exploded in a continent-wide conflagration that produced a layer of diamond from carbon on the surface. While disputing the current hypothesis, NASA's David Morrison allows, "They may have discovered something absolutely marvelous and unexplained."
12,900 years ago? That's over twice the age of the Earth, you heathens!
Trolling is a art,
it's all in the manual. better days ahead.
The NYT article mentioned some of the diamond is hexagonal: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/02impact.html
This is a type of diamond that seems to form when meteors enter the atmosphere and it a called Lonsdaleite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonsdaleite
This material is of interest as a replacement for structural steel since it can be formed in a simple manner using chemistry. http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2008/01/anaximenes-way.html
It's worth pointing out that the Tunguska event left no crater. Lack of a crater is not a major problem with this hypothesis.
Whats the oldest verifiable event or person preserve in human oral or written history? I think we get barely half-way to this meteor.
I saw something on Discovery or National Geographic about a few days back.... The scary part is that they speculate on the size of that killer rock. Scientists believe now that its size was much smaller than expected. Meaning smaller asteroid/comet that was previously though trivial are now possible humanity killer!
The new evidence is a layer of nanodiamonds at locations all across North America
We are rich! RICH!!!
Can't wait the next killer comet!
@neonux
"Those aren't diamond chips, Baby...they're NANODIAMONDS!" Makes me sound less cheap.
Everybody blames the comets. And the Republicans.
More CO2 would have enveloped them in a cloud of heat-trapping gas that would have prevented them from freezing to death in the younger dryas ice age. Time to throw another log on the fire and look at all of that DAMN SNOW!
Just to point this interesting, if far fetched, hypothesis about the origin of Clovis people, based on the striking resemblance of their stone tools and that of those found from the Solutrean.
A friend who's studying archaeology told me about this. He's learned to make stone tools, and that made the connection quite appealing. The particularities that both techniques are not found in any other stone using culture.
Again, it's far fetched, probably not true but makes for a captivating story to get started in studying the paleolithic.
Soem people postulate the filling of the Black Sea 7150 years ago. Or the filling of the Mediteranean about 15000 years ago. Thirdly, the end of the last ice was so quick that shorelines retracted miles in a person's lifetime then. There are some "100 year loads" in Mesopotamia that are pretty nasty and Giglamesh could remember some of those. Flood legends are common around the world along with floods.
...then hell, why not?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
In truth, the Nanodiamond layer was left behind when the ancient Poki-Man ancestors clashed in their Final Battle. Ancient Poki-Man powers came from red egg shaped diamonds that exploded when its owner was killed creating the nanodiamond layer....
'news.google dot com' listed slashdot as the top provider for this story.
Kinda cool.
Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
From the slashdot heading:
>> While disputing the current hypothesis, NASA's David Morrison allows, "They may have discovered something absolutely marvelous and unexplained."
From the article:
>> he said: "They may have discovered something absolutely marvelous and unexplained. But the impact hypothesis just doesn't make sense."
(bolds mine)
You will probably not find the crater in the current territory of US. The impact was in a huge piece of land that was between US and Europe which sanked into the ocean due to the impact. You have to search in the deep of the atlantic ocean that derives its name from the land.
..some kind of temporal outsourcing ;-)
There is speculation that a supernova from about 5700 BC may have been recorded in a drawing: http://www.tifr.res.in/~vahia/oldest-sn.pdf
That is not writing or oral but interesting.
First of all, Clovis people in Canada 12,900 years ago is a stretch, considering the amount of ice still around then.
Killing off all the Clovis people in North America would represent a larger explosion than the one that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago and would then need to explain why only North America is effected and not global populations.
Second, good evidence that Clovis people killed off the viable breeding populations of mega fauna. No need to bring a comet into it.
Third, the Younger Dryas is part of the Pleistocene cycle started 2 million years ago. Glacial melting in North America and cold fresh water runoff into North Atlantic disrupts global oceanic currents and thus the climate. No need for a comet to explain it.
This hypothesis arises by trying to explain the nano-diamonds. Explanation could be a comet. So if that's the explanation then what are the implications? And, here we are.
There is another explanation for presence of nano-diamonds and their origin is unrelated to Clovis people or mgafauna.
So what shall we name the comet that killed the Clovis? I vote for "Lelouch".
But... the future refused to change.
Ok, I'm not from New Mexico myself, but what is it about the southeastern part of the state that attracts these crazy theories? Roswell, Area 51, aliens, and now you say a killer comet is going to take out Clovis. Geez, can't the state get a break? Sure, it's rugged and arid, but can't people just drive through there without making up some sort of crazy story? Or is there something about those hundred-mile drives with nothing on either side of the road but yucca and cactus that messes with peoples' heads?
Killer comet in Clovis. Next, you'll be telling me you've got a bottle of White Sand from Alamogordo on your shelf, and it's grown by an eighth of an inch just since you came back.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
How does that timing mesh with Plato's description of the destruction of Atlantis?
SFW? Who cares?
Because the scientist want to mock them and prove them wrong.
That is exactly what makes me get up in the morning. Mocking creationists. Just can not live without it. It's like catnip to me.
Geez,what self-absorbed buffoons.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment.
However, today's opportunity for you to show your filthy ignorance is to eschew the idea that the earth is old enough for the comet to have happened in the first place.
Should be right up your alley.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
That's 11,600 years ago for Atlantis's destruction but TFA says it was 12,900 years ago which is 1,300 years off you idiot!!!
Oh, I can hear the loons whine now: "But but but 10% is a pretty good margin of error for a third hand report from an Egyptian priest that long ago!"
PuhlEEEAZE go back to your Illuminatus Trilogy and leave the theorizing to the Proper Authorities!
Seastead this.
According to the BBC, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7808171.stm the jury is still out on this one.
Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
This story is important. Its about two continent full of people and animal life that was sterilized. This happened 12K years ago. The problem is that this can happen tomorrow. Also the craters that no one can find are right there. Just look at North America using Google map. You see all those lakes, well they weren't formed by no ice sheet. The three largest lakes: Great Bear, Great Slave and the Great Lakes form a straight line. If you saw Shoemaker/Levy then it should be obvious what you are looking at when you look at the map of North America.
It's not proven yet, of course, but I hypothesized a comet hitting NA some time back. It would explain the sudden rise in temperature, and sea levels, and the flood myths around the entire world, and why Atlantis "sank".
I've been waiting for this for a while now.
I'll make another prediction: I bet we eventually find some very interesting anomalous stuff, like pottery and advanced architecture, around the mid-atlantic ridge.
Note that I'm not postulating alien technology or super Atlanteans or anything, just that the island kingdom did exist, and that it wasn't in the middle of the Mediterranean.
(Posting anon to not undo modding elsewhere in this thread...)
The Mâori have oral history traditions describing when some of the original Mâori settlers first arrived in Aotearoa, the Land of the Long White Cloud -- i.e. New Zealand. Part of these tales depict the appearance of a much brighter star in a specific place in the sky -- which corresponds with the explosion that formed the Crab nebula in 1054. And lo, this dating roughly agrees with modern archaeological findings.
So, yes, some oral history is in fact verifiable. :)
Cheers,
Now, where did I put that device that allows me to smack peoples faces over the Internet again...?
A good education is a bit like a STD - it makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and gives you a desire to spread it.
Possible Ainu connection to North America.
Cheers,
So where are the bolts? First of all, we can not say that all Native people have been DNA sequenced enough to see if all their ancestors go back to one person in Africa, no "race" of people have for that matter. Second, why is the BBC such a credible source, after all, the Brits are the ones, without the help of Comet Dumb Dumb, destroyed the civilizations of the Natives not so long ago. Third, there is mounting evidence that there were most likely several migrations from several parts of the world, from several ports of entry (even the BBC got in on this one, regarding the 38,000 year old footprints found in Mexico. Forth, the Clovis People probably migrated if such a disaster had happened to other regions of the globe. The real problem is in believing other theories other than what we were taught in grammer school, about the Bering Strait migration and the last ice age, etc. We've since had to redo this stupid theory several times, you'd think these pendejos would just stop talking until the final proof comes forth, but nooo, because someone in a monkey suit needs fund money for their experiments and studies. Everyone wants to feel important with their new theories. Oh well, what about this one: perhaps, there was an impact, but not as fatal, some animals died off, some humans died off. Heck, according to the academia, they were only living to forty anyway, so it must have been pretty easy for that to happen. Life went on, pretty much undisturbed, until the English Only crowd came in and dessimated the original populations down to what is now only 1 percent, destroying over two thousand Native languages along with them. The same thing happened down south with the Spanish Only hoodlums. Then they all set about to reteach everyone with their theories, replacing nearly all Native thought with Euro-centic thought through various forms of intimidations and cruelties, until the internet came along so a bunch of Nerds could sit and ponder these things, poiting out tid bits of this New knowledge to each other, further trying to destroy any last fragment trace of anything Native, whether in thought or word. Then Yellowstone started to rumble, causing many to realize, "hey, maybe we don't know as much as we thought?" Hey, maybe Nature will once more bring US all to the brink of destruction? Maybe, some will be left to tell all about US, and what not to do the next time around, thus setting off a chain of events that will herald in a 'new' Platinum Age of Humanity, where we aren't so busy digging in the dirt looking for clues to who we are TODAY? Hm? Maybe not. Oh, well, just a fantasy.
The Dine' (Navajo) and Dene' (northern Canada branch of Navajo) had been here 10,000 years before this occurred. Linguistic and archeological evidence supports a 20 to 22K year period of divergence in language post separation. The Hopi were also here and still are. They have written of the meeting between the Dine'/Dene' and themselves near the Bering land bridge (the Dine'/Dene' crossed it; the Hopi were already here). From the time of that meeting, the Najavo name for the Hopi is "Ancient Ones" or Anasazi. They still call the Hopi that, not that they share the Four Corners region. The Hopi/Anasazi have written evidence corroborated by earthen works, showing they've been here since before the last ice age. So we have 3 groups that were here before 12,900 years ago and still are. They were not wiped out. I have no doubt that the people who were at Clovis left, but I believe that no adequate effort has been made to determine what group they came from, and to what group they went. Such things get recorded in their histories. Unfortunately science is far more interested in dead pottery shards than in living words. They claim words can evolve and become mythology and so they discredit them even when there's adequate evidnce to support it. Yet they claim to be able to tell a story (ie. make one up) starting from abandon detritus and evidence of astronomical events.
If the Clovis were killed, why weren't the other groups near and far? More likely the Clovis did what was normal for them, and took the dying of the local region to be cause to move on once again. There is no conclusive evidence that the Clovis or Mississipppian or other "disappeared" groups actually ceased to exist. There is simply evidence that they were there followed by no evidence that they were there.
Far be it from the dirt diggers to actually stand up and talk to the descendants of the old ones and listen to their stories, and find out what happened. Of course the stories prove nothing. But they do give a far better framrwork for hypothesis since the stories often contain mention of physical structures, both man made and natural.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
In your rant against religions, there is one fact that you missed : ... ... however, problems arise from the Kuran's untouchablility (especially the culturally relevant items of the time are not present time's).
You only took into account the popular western ones, which mostly derives from the sumerian mythology/historic records
Judaism ? Mis-translation of the legend/fact of Enki and Ninhursag.
Christianism ? Mis-translation of the Jewish mis-translation, along with some heavily rewritten mystic's texts
Islamism ? Maybe the less dishonest attempt of the three, as it's book is supposed to be Muhamad's words, not God's or Yahveh's (and liberally borrows from the other faiths of its native land and time)
On the validity of religion, you should at least recognise that there are strangely similar concepts in religions (christianity's Divine light, judaism's Ruach, buddhism's Clear Light, hinduism's Light of brahma, taoism's Tao, ...) that have been 'confirmed' my millennias of mystic's writings and artist's production worldwide ...
On the subject of the all-pervading imaginary friend, I am quite sure there is no such thing (the anthropomorphic image, santa claus-like bearded Man in the Sky) ... but I am equally sure there is "something", as I personally experienced it. What is it exactly is open to discussion, just as is what is "it"'s will ... (to find "it", I would suggest the asian religions's practices, as they seem to present "it" more openly and thoroughly than the casual western ones)
Lastly, a society should never base its own morals on what was written/translated/forged millenias ago, as the social context that sprouted those moral "rules" is no longer present (remember slavery) ... and besides that, the prescription against homosexuality (your point) was never written as is under any religious text !!!
Wasn't Clovis one of Jerry Clower's childhood friends?
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.