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Wireless Internet Access Uses Visible Light, Not Radio Waves

An anonymous reader writes to tell us that a company has demonstrated a new form of wireless communication that uses light instead of radio waves. "Its inventor, St. Cloud resident John Pederson, says visible-light embedded wireless data communication is the next step in the evolution of wireless communications, one that will expand the possibilities in phone and computer use. The connection provides Web access with almost no wiring, better security and with speeds more than eight times faster than cable."

56 of 264 comments (clear)

  1. light hax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    im in ur bawx stealin ur photons

  2. But... by goto+begin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Radio waves are part of the light spectrum?

    1. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      They're both part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

    2. Re:But... by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you mean both radio and light are part of the electromagnetic spectrum. "Light" is almost always used to refer exclusively to the visible (and near-visible [IR, UV]) portion of the EM spectrum.

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    3. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Where and when are microwaves or radio waves commonly referred to as light?

    4. Re:But... by mpoulton · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Light" is almost always used to refer exclusively to the visible (and near-visible [IR, UV]) portion of the EM spectrum.

      Well, to be pedantic, scientists often use "light" to refer to higher energy radiation too. It's not commonly used for wavelengths longer than far IR, but it is commonly used for X-ray and even extremely short wavelengths - like "synchrotron light".

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    5. Re:But... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Informative

      Come on!

      Yes it says "light" in the title and ScuttleMonkey-added text. The very first sentence of the actual user submission specifies "visible light". Once that context is established, "light" is a perfectly valid shorthand way to refer to it, and is often (though admittedly not always) used in that way.

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    6. Re:But... by Boglin · · Score: 4, Funny

      We also occassionally use "light" as an antonym for "heavy".

    7. Re:But... by treeves · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For a counter-example, that "real scientists" use, the Advanced Light Source (ALS) produces intense beams of extreme UV or soft X-rays. If you could look at one of those beams, you wouldn't see it, and you would probably not see anything else ever again either. Maybe "burnt to a crisp" *is* an example of human visual system response. Better work on your pedantry some more.

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    8. Re:But... by simcop2387 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Astronomy

    9. Re:But... by jstockdale · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wherever photons = light?

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  3. Radio waves... by TruthSeeker · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... are light, you insensitive clod!

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  4. Warning! by Fjandr · · Score: 4, Funny

    Looking at the access point can cause severe retinal burns. We are not responsible for retinal damage or permanent blindness as a result of using our product. Thank you, and have a nice day.

    1. Re:WARNING! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I got that warning after my first goatse encounter. I've been really cautious since.

    2. Re:Warning! by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, but retinal damage only occurs when using P2P protocols to share pr0n according to this flashy brochure the preacher man gave me.

    3. Re:Warning! by orclevegam · · Score: 2, Funny

      Please be advised that person prone to seizures should not be in the same room as the access point as the natural oscillations in the carrier wave have been shown to cause seizures.

      --
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  5. WARNING! by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Funny

    WARNING!
    Do not look at the internet with your remaining eye.

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  6. huh? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Funny

    Radio is just another color of light--a very, uh, extremely red color.

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    1. Re:huh? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is where you are wrong, sir. And you can test it yourself. Create an HTML document and set the background color past "#FF0000". Crank it up to "#ZZ0000" and your monitor will then begin blasting radio waves at your face.

      --
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    2. Re:huh? by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Use Tempest for Eliza and it'll transmit radio at you for real rather than generating a minor html error :P

    3. Re:huh? by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, it seems like they're drawing a couple suspect distinctions in this article. They talk about "light" as being very different from "radio" even though they're both EM radiation, and they talk about "using light" as very different from "using fiber optics", even though it's really just a difference of medium.

      I don't really see it working out. We already use that portion of the EM spectrum for... you know... seeing. I guess you could claim that being easily blocked (e.g. by walls) is an advantage, but for most people in most circumstances, being able to pass through lots of materials would be a greater advantage. If you really want tighter security, then instead of relying on walls to block the signal, this technology could be improved by creating some sort of conduit that would go directly from one point to another. Like some kind of fibrous, wiry, cable-like structure between them. I'm sure that would be much better than fiber optics.

  7. It's called free space optics by eobanb · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's called free space optics. The technology has been around a long time, in fact, and for a while it was fairly common on laptops. It was called IrDA, and though it was fairly short range you could use it to transfer files, establish a TCP/IP connection, etc.

    I remember playing a Starcraft game with an iMac G3 and PowerBook G3. A friend and I used AppleTalk over IrDA. Unfortunately it was rather awkward since they had to line up, but we figured out you could bounce the infrared beam with mirrors. So we didn't need ethernet, we could play wirelessly...this was in 1998, long before 802.11b became mass-market.

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    1. Re:It's called free space optics by should_be_linear · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And here is GPL'd design: http://ronja.twibright.com/

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      839*929
  8. oldnews by rpp3po · · Score: 3, Informative

    For how many decades does my university use laser links to our dorms? For how many decades do we have infra red data transmission, e.g. in remote controls?

  9. Next step?? by PsyciatricHelp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Last time I checked light doesn't travel through my wall. Radio waves do.

    1. Re:Next step?? by DragonWriter · · Score: 3, Informative

      Last time I checked light doesn't travel through my wall.

      Visible light doesn't, probably. But "light" is a term that can be used to refer to the whole of the EM spectrum.

    2. Re:Next step?? by snowraver1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I read an article about this or similar technology several months ago. Sure, light doesn't do through walls, but that could be an advantage. You could setup a wireless network that asctually stops at the building perimiter.

      The other article (not sure if this one does didn't read it) indicated that this technology could be incorporated into LED lighting. Basically your overhead lighting would become the access point. There would be recievers in the room as well that would pick up your transmissions and presumably put them on some sort of physical media (cat6, fibre). Pretty neat, but to me sound extremely finicky.

      -- Snow.

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    3. Re:Next step?? by orclevegam · · Score: 2, Informative

      Different matter has different absorption properties. Visible light can travel through quite a few kinds of matter, such as certain plastics and glasses. Likewise infrared light travels through other materials. There are materials that block other wavelengths as well, although a lot of them we probably aren't as aware of because their absorption properties for non-visible wavelengths probably haven't been thoroughly tested.

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    4. Re:Next step?? by geobeck · · Score: 5, Funny

      I read an article about this or similar technology several months ago. Sure, light doesn't do through walls, but that could be an advantage. You could setup a wireless network that actually stops at the building perimeter.

      Yes, but it would be easy to gain unauthorized access to your wireless network if you have windows.

      Why does that sound familiar?

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    5. Re:Next step?? by MadnessASAP · · Score: 5, Funny

      Great, now I can watch the girl next door change AND leech her wireless with my telescope.

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    6. Re:Next step?? by CannonballHead · · Score: 2, Informative

      So if you ask someone to "turn on the light," what are you referring to? The radio? ;)

      When pitting "light" against "radio" waves, the implication seems to be plain that he's talking about visible light.

    7. Re:Next step?? by againjj · · Score: 2, Informative
    8. Re:Next step?? by Usquebaugh · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not hard?

      I rather suspect you have never installed let alone retro fitted a cage. EMF leaks everywhere, replace all windows with metaled glass, all doors need to be backed up, any vents need mesh, plastic pipes etc etc etc.

      It's a nightmare which is why emf shielded buildings are usually built to spec by specialists.

    9. Re:Next step?? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2

      Visible light doesn't, probably. But "light" is a term that can be used to refer to the whole of the EM spectrum.

      Wow. I wish I was so smart that I found the use of that term confusing.

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    10. Re:Next step?? by jonadab · · Score: 2, Informative

      > So if you ask someone to "turn on the light," what are you referring to? The radio? ;)

      Actually, an incandescent lamp does produce radio waves, as well as other frequencies, IIRC. However...

      > When pitting "light" against "radio" waves, the implication seems to be plain that he's talking about visible light.

      Indeed. In context, it seems obvious that "light" here means visible light, which is after all by far the most common meaning of the word. Yes, the word "light" can also mean electromagnetic radiation in general, but for that matter it can also mean understanding or insight, and yet somehow it's obvious from context that these are not the intended meanings in this case.

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  10. Light, huh. by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Has this guy never seen snow? Or fog? Or rain? Does he live in a desert? Two words: Atmospheric absorption.

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  11. Now I guess we need ... by SWPadnos · · Score: 4, Funny

    Tinfoil glasses :)

    --
    - The Sigless Wonder
  12. The article is even more amusing than that. by khasim · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From TFA:

    The technology could be exciting for cell phone users as well. Cells phones use radio waves that can travel through walls and be intercepted. That means they cannot be used for sensitive conversations, such as those involving national security or banking transactions.

    Light does not travel through walls and the LVX could offer a more secure conversation, Pederson said. He said cell phones already have the technology needed to adapt to LVX. He is looking for a cell phone manufacturer to develop a phone using his technology.

    So the cell phones equipped with that would NOT operate with any cell tower that was out of visual range. Doesn't that kind of limit your conversations with your bank to, essentially, being inside the bank building?

    "This would be like having fiber optics without the fiber, coming into your hand-held device or telephone," Pederson said. "The security implications are numerous."

    No. Because the fiber cable can be punched through walls and such. It does not require line of sight to work. But it works at the speed of light. Which is why it is preferred.

    1. Re:The article is even more amusing than that. by jae471 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Uhhhh...radio waves propagate at the speed of light too, being made out of light and all.

      However, higher-energy light has a higher frequency. Higher frequency = higher bandwidth. (and, not-so-coincidentally, higher power consumption)

    2. Re:The article is even more amusing than that. by Nonsanity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll remember that next time I go to the Radiology department for an X-ray...

  13. Re:8x faster than cable by Chabo · · Score: 2, Informative
    They didn't mention speeds at all in the article, but on at least one occasion when he used the word "cable", he meant fiber-optics:

    If it works out as Pederson plans, his project would replace the need for fiber optic wires that run underground and in buildings. The cost savings alone in construction and wiring make it impressive, St. Cloud Mayor Dave Kleis said.

    âoeRight now, we are going through a tremendous amount of fiber optics. If this can move and transmit with light rather than cable, there is significant savings in that alone,â Kleis said.

    Now, given that they're essentially the same technology, I can't see how this would be faster than fiber. But if by "cable" when talking about speeds, he does mean DOCSIS, then that's easy. 10 Gigabit ethernet is already more than 20 times faster than EuroDOCSIS 3.0, 8-channel, and most varieties of 10GbE run over fiber.

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  14. He needs to think twice by omnilynx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's a reason we don't already use visible light signals to send wireless data (except if we're lost in the wilderness, I guess). It's VISIBLE. Can you image how annoying it would be to have light flickering around you all the time from your communicating devices? One of the primary advantages of the various bands we use (radio, infrared, etc.) is that they don't interfere with our normal operations: they're invisible.

    We've got plenty of bandwidth that doesn't interact directly with the human body. Why don't we stick to that instead of trying to use something that does?

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    1. Re:He needs to think twice by CaptainPatent · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Can you image how annoying it would be to have light flickering around you all the time from your communicating devices?

      You know that thing you looked into when you typed your message. Be it a CRT, LCD or Plasma, it flickers at 40-120 times per second.

      Communication applications would flicker even faster to the point you wouldn't notice unless you sent a constant string of 0's or 1's.

      Don't get me wrong, I still think it's a bad idea for line of sight and other interference reasons, but flicker is near the bottom of that list.

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    2. Re:He needs to think twice by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Can you image how annoying it would be to have light flickering around you all the time from your communicating devices?

      Oh, cut the bleeding heart crap, will ya? We all have our switches, lights, and knobs to deal with. At this very moment I surrounded by hundreds of thousands of blinking and beeping lights, blinking and beeping and flashing and flashing and I can't take it anymore! They're blinking and beeping and flashing! Why can't anyone stop it? Why doesn't someone pull the plug?!

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  15. Been tried, won't work by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's been investigated but the technology just won't work out. Light sensors have a strong speed/intensity tradeoff. Even with a several-inch wide lens you can't collect enough light to drive a sensor at more than a few kilobits/sec. And people hate to keep pointing the sensor at the opposite party.

    And if the room has LED or CCFL lighting the interference from those is mighty intense.
       

  16. This has been around a long time. by John+Sokol · · Score: 4, Informative

    1.) There is TCP/IP over Infrared (IrDA) and comes standard on Windows and works also in Linux.
      http://web.pdx.edu/~mendyke/ip7780.html

    2.) there are many laser link systems out there.
        I even worked on one.
        http://www.dnull.com/zebraresearch/company-mail.html

    3.) The 802.11 standard also includes the 802.11 Infrared (IR) Physical Layer. 802.11 IR defines 1Mbps and 2Mbps operation by bouncing light off ceilings and walls to provide connectivity within a room or small office. This infrared version of the standard has been available since the initial release of the 802.11 standard in 1997.

    4.) Spectrix Corporation of Mundelein, Illinois had a proprietary solution for this. I think they are out of business now.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=QZrrXcs1R9gC&pg=RA1-PA207&lpg=RA1-PA207&dq=%22Spectrix+Corporation+%22&source=bl&ots=kMxMofcTd7&sig=qd4QvwoREWQloJKwnpmp63j-Z-I&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

    If you explore the link above from the book "Wireless Computing" By Ira Brodsky Published by John Wiley and Sons, 1997. This book goes in a lot of detail about many IP over optical solutions available at that time.

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  17. Utter bullshit by topham · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article is utter bullshit.

    Using light, as opposed to radio waves is NOT more secure, unless the room has no windows, or others areas for light to escape.
    Wiring a room to support it could easily cost $300 (you still need atleast one network drop to the room, and mount the transmitter).

    Are there environments where the slight advantages it has may be worth it? sure. but they will be so rare that the cost of the device will stay quite high.

    THe article looks like a puff piece designed to lure in investors.

  18. You're right beside me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Because light does not travel through walls, cell phones and government and banking information would be more secure."

    It's not a bug, it's a feature, really - it is, please believe me.

    1. Re:You're right beside me? by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So using visible light negates the need for expensively embedding faraday cages into the buildings.

    2. Re:You're right beside me? by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It does. On the other hand, you need to paint over all the windows.

      --
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    3. Re:You're right beside me? by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So I'm going to lose connection every time someone stands in between me and the light emitter? And cell phones? So every time somebody walks past me while I'm on the phone I lose the signal?

      We are already coming up with new ways to make fiber cheaper and with this stuff you'd still need fiber because you aren't going to get great distances with it. Not to mention the billions it would take to install this thing along the roadways so it could work as a cell phone. Maybe in small indoor areas it might be decent, but if I am in a small area there is already gigabit and fiber. So to me this seems like a solution with more problems than the tech they want to replace. No thanks.

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    4. Re:You're right beside me? by Cramer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well now, that depends on both the wall and the light source. No one has said what wavelength of light is being used, at what power, and what frequency/modulation. While I'm sure his setup goes well beyond IRDA, using LEDs ("light") for data transmissions has been around for over 20 years. Both my cellphone and laptop have IR ports on them -- even used it for internet access once. (laptop doesn't have bluetooth and I don't have the 150$ (f*** you Ericson) USB cable for the phone.)

      [Back in college, eons ago, "we" blinded remotes in other rooms through the cinder-block walls with a high output IR LED -- that we made insanely bright to the point of beginning to melt it.]

    5. Re:You're right beside me? by shadow349 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So I'm going to lose connection every time someone stands in between me and the light emitter?

      I didn't RTFA, but if the system were based on diffuse, ambient light in the room, then that shouldn't be a problem.

      I swear that I remember a similar idea from around 10 years ago where they wanted to use fluorescent lights in much the same way ... switch them on and off thousands of times per second and you could use them as a data channel if your device had an optical sensor. By setting the hi and low thresholds appropriately, it didn't matter if the sensor had line of sight or not; the reflected light was enough to keep the data flowing.

      I think that article came out right about the same time that the security community realized that many network switches/hubs were vulnerable to snooping by observing their LEDs. I guess one man's bug is another man's feature.

  19. Available since the mid-1990s from HP by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

    1996 called. It wants its HP NetBeamIR Infrared Ethernet Access Point back.

    IR access points have been around for years, and they work OK. They can even be made to work through diffuse reflections, so you don't have to have a clear line of sight. But you need a lot of access points to cover a space.

  20. Not The Only Developer by Nonsanity · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's a bigger team at Boston University that's been working on this technology.

    I particularly like their plans for use in cars. I can imagine combining this with nano piezoelectric technology to create roadways that use passing car vibrations to power illuminated markings that can also transmit road condition information to passing cars or link their light-based inter-car networks around corners and over hills.

    The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades that decode and display ambient porn...