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Ubuntu's Laptop Killing Bug Fixed
jeevesbond writes "Back in October of 2007 we discussed a bug that would dramatically shorten the life of laptops using Ubuntu. Ubuntu users will be glad to know that a fix has finally been released for Ubuntu versions 9.04, 8.10 and 8.04 (LTS). However, as this fix is not yet in the update repositories, anyone wishing to test it should follow these instructions for enabling the 'proposed' repository. Report your results on the original bug report. Happy testing!"
Considering this was a fault of the manufacturers, this story is pure and total flamebait. Just don't bother feeding the trolls; don't reply.
Que the stories of laptop hard drives failing before their time and rebuttals and blame shifting from about 200 people, mingled with "in soviet Russia, hard drive crashes you!" jokes and ordered lists that feature question marks and profit.
Oh, and probably a hot grits joke or two.
weirdest thing I ever saw: scientology advertising on slashdot.
Anti-climactic. What happens to those pesky cracks in the walls?
Modding me -1 troll doesn't make me wrong.
Well, one can squarely blame the HD manufacturers (look at the Seagate disaster) and say they need to fix their hardware.
However, when your stuff doesnt work, regardless who's fault it is, it's still broken. And in cases like Ubuntu vs Windows: it'll work in Windows and not work in Ubuntu. Who do you think the user will fault?
ObUserStory: I bought a T61 Thinkpad. Worked fine in Windows, and not so well in Ubuntu. What didnt work? The right side USB ports. If I was a regular user, I'd remove Ubuntu and put Windows back on. However, Im stubborn... and know that Linux shouldnt go disabling ports at seemingly random. Turns out, it was a ACPI bios bug that did so :( So a BIOS update did the trick and fixed everything.
So yes, it may be a manufacturers fault, but that's not where the blame gets placed all the time..
Marcus smokes all of the crack in the walls and goes on a rampage after discovering a bug in his OS causes his laptop to die.
He shoots everybody in the house before beginning an armed standoff with the SWAT team, then kills 3 cops(one in full riot gear) before a sniper in a police helicopter shoots the gun out of his hand. Stunned but unharmed, Marcus then slips and falls off the roof into his unkempt wading pool before he is transanally disemboweled by the pool's drain.
And since Ubuntu = Linux and Linux = Ubuntu, it is Linux's fault, right?
Or was this issue specific to Ubuntu and not other distros? (Yes, believe it or not, there ARE other distros; although it is hard to tell since so many stories and postings say "Ubuntu" in place of the word "Linux" or "Linux distribution")
Ostensibly, yes. In reality, those laptops had been making much more use of ReiserFS's best friend. I heard they even planned to run off with him.
The fix is already included in the accepted updates:
acpi-support (0.114-0intrepid1) intrepid-proposed; urgency=low
* {ac,battery,resume,start}.d/90-hdparm.sh: don't just check whether
laptop-mode is configured to control the drives, also check whether
laptop-mode itself is *enabled*. Finally closes LP: #59695.
-- Steve Langasek Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:50:10 +0000
Just run apt-get update && apt-get install acpi-support.
The title and article summary is misleading. It shortens the life of the hard drive, not the laptop itself. Hard drives are cheap, and on most laptops as easy to swap out as the battery with screwdriver in hand.
Its not like Ubuntu is killing the motherboard or screen, its the Hard Drive.
-- 4 8 15 16 23 42
Does it bother anyone that Ubuntu, the community's duly annointed challenger to Microsoft hegemony, had an outstanding bug for fourteen months whose effect was to damage hardware? That's pretty terrible.
Trolling again on slashdot are we Mr. Gates? If you had been paying attention, you would have known about it, since it was all over the internet when it happened.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
For something that was all over the internet, it took an awfully long time to fix.
Reading the posts prior to yours, it seems like most people are saying that Ubuntu really should have fixed this or worked around it, and that there's no excuse.
But it's much easier to jump straight to the conclusion, isn't it? Facts do tend to get in the way...
It's true that this issue was largely commented here and in Ubuntu forums, but people doesn't have to be looking daily for that kind of nasty bugs: at least the operating system should display a warning pointing to the corresponding forums in order to apply the lot of suggested workarounds.
Sadly, Ubuntu didn't care to advise me after installing 7.10, reinstalling 8.04 nor 8.10.
How I "detected" the bug in my Dell Vostro? just because the weird sound of the hard disk heads; of course this happens only if you are in a silent environment and have some experience "listening" hard disks.
If you can't handle non-perfect hardware or firmware, then you don't make operating systems.
I don't know, quite a few companies in the past have made a pretty successful run of it.
What if the user has an ASUS EeePC, or other netbook like device with SSD hard disk or even a regular platter based hard disk in a incredibly difficult to reach location? This could still prove to be a laptop killer for many users and it is incredibly dishonest to pretend any differently. Oh and before anyone gets any ideas, look at my username, understand that this is being posted from Ubuntu Hardy Heron and I am quite happy with my Linux experience. I just don't think its fair to pretend this is any less serious than it actually is.
--bornagainpenguin
Have a Virgin Mobile USA smartphone? Give VMRoms.com a try!
"transanally disemboweled"
Eww! Eww! Eww!
Eeeeewwwww!!
Ewwww!
To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
Apple says 'hi'.
>if this were Windows messing up people's hard drives, you would all be all over it
Who does that 'YOU' refer to?
Do you really think it are the same people? Haven't you realised by now that there are windows-trolls, linux-zealots, apple-masturbationists and sane people?
I don't blame Microsoft for the crapware vendors install. I don't blame Ubuntu for not magically working around bugs in undocumented hardware.
You, on the other hand. Want to make this Ubuntu's fault, because linux-trolls would make it Microsoft fault it this happened on windows.
So, guess which of the four categories you belong to?
Hello, Mr. Microsoft-Troll.
Obviously. But the story's still flamebait. Want a non-flamebait title? "Ubuntu Workaround for Laptop-Killing BIOS Bug Released". See the difference? Subtle but important.
well, in a way. The problem is that the drive makers optimized their power saving algorithms for Windows disk access patterns - as you would expect them to since it is 85% of the market. And they didn't provide knobs to twist for other OSes - including new, more efficient versions of Windows.
The irony is that Linux runs afoul of the hard drive power saving tuning because it is too efficient. The gaps between disk accesses are too long, and trigger a head unload while the OS is still active.
The best fix would be to twist a knob to adjust the inactivity timer - but that isn't available. So the simplest fix is to disable power saving on the disk - fine for laptops used as portable desktops. To keep drive power saving without unloading/loading the heads constantly, you have to configure "laptop mode", which uses memory to cache reads/collect writes so as to provide something like 30 minutes between disk accesses for typical word processing/browsing activities.
I've thought about writing a background process (in python or your favorite script language) that monitors iostat - and reads a raw sector every 9 seconds to keep the disk from thinking we are inactive. At the same time, we have our own Linux oriented inactivity timer, and stop reading the raw sectors when the system is truly inactive (other than our own reads).
Depends on if he wants to give them a hint, or have them form a line.
Just in the last two days I've tried to install three versions of Ubuntu on a Toshiba Satellite laptop, and every attempt failed with a blank screen of death in the middle of the process. I tried 7.1, 8.04, and the latest nightly build (first two Desktop versions, the latter Alternate of course). This is an old laptop from 2001, a model 1805-S203, so there's no cutting-edge hardware that should be causing a problem, yet the installs failed spectacularly.
By contrast, BOTH Windows 2000 and MEPIS Linux version 7 were able to install.
I have to tell you, this has shaken my confidence in open source operating systems quite a bit.
Great, now the launchpad page has been slashdotted.
Real men read Slashdot articles at -1, bottom up.
Perhaps he wants to give them a hint that they should form a line, so that they formed a queue on cue.
Hmmm... Q on Q... that sounds like some weird Star Trek porn or something.
I hate printers.
How can this be modded "insightful"? When systems break down that run other OS's, the hardware or drivers are typically blamed. That's fair territory. But when it's Linux, the double standard kicks in and it's the OS's fault? If the hardware manufacturers aren't supplying proper workarounds or fixes, or aren't even providing the source for their BIOS/Drivers/whatever to the folks who are apparently now expected to fix it, then how the hell are they supposed to make it all work? Magic wands? Insightful my ass. I'd mod this "ignorant".
"(Sound effects courtesy of Don Martin.)"
I remember his great work in Mad magazine.
Fuck I'm old...
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Oh wait, it's kdawson.
It shortens the life of your HD, not the laptop itself, you chimp.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
"Ubuntu Workaround for Laptop-Killing BIOS Bug Released"
That title's not quite right. The bug points to a workaround that has existed since the bug was initially reported. Maybe this title: "With new update, Ubuntu make Laptop-Killing BIOS bug workaround automatic".
...the hardware or drivers are typically blamed. That's fair territory. But when it's Linux, the double standard kicks in and it's the OS's fault?
Considering drivers are generally part of the Linux kernel, it is fair to blame the OS at times. Also note that it is a hell of a lot easier to patch software than hardware, so a responsible OS will issue workarounds where needed. Certainly the hardware manufacturers should be more helpful, but you can't just say "eh, we know of a problem but since we didn't cause it we won't attempt to resolve the issue" if you want to be taken seriously.
I'm running 8.10 on a Dell Latitude D620, and the default settings already have one of the workarounds implemented. The laptop-mode-tools package workaround mentioned at Ubuntu's wiki has already been implemented. Lower the FUD meters.
Nes pas?
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
It's not only Ubuntu or Linux. It's operating system independent issue. I have my DVR (Using it's own OS), which used to put HD in sleep every 15 seconds. When I changed other HD problem went away. So it's not about operating system at all. It's about HD manufacturer setting strange (too much too low) default values for drive.
Did somebody (really?) forget that HD drives are being used in many other systems than dektop / laptop computers, using Linux or Windows?
Does this bug also affect solid state drives, or just traditional drives with more moving parts?
If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome.
The funny thing is that the actul bug is an urban myth. People claim that once your hard drive reaches 300k parks it will fail. Note that at the start they were claiming the number to be 100k and now are claiming 600k due to the simple fact that a huge number of people showed up with the number being well over million on perfectly functioning drives.
The drives parked heads when not in use, sometimes, several times a minute, some of them clicked when they did so. It is a feature that reduces power use and protects the hard drive from sudden movement and impacts. It is NOT a bug.
All the claims that it will make you hard drive fail in a year are false and are made by people that have no a slightest clue of hard drive design.
No, it sounds like really hot James Bond time-travel porn.
I downloaded the image for a Live CD a few days ago but hadn't installed it -- lucky me -- and I was wondering, are the new Live CD downloads updated yet? Or do I have to apt-get something straight away?
I followed the instructions on Ubuntu's forums (what a pain to locate the actual instructions) (I transcribed what I did and will post them).
The actual problem was that manufactures have messed with their drives and altered the head parking timeout into a "detect if windows went to sleep" method. Basically Windows writes to the disk *all the time* until it sleeps, so the best way to minimize disk use is to park the head almost instantly after any inactivity, as that will park it asap when it sleeps. Furthermore at least 2 manufactures used the timeout control as <= 195 == "on" and >195 == "off".
Ubuntu/Linux wrote a lot less often, but plenty anyway, like every 15 seconds (doing stupid stuff like writing log files). So the head unparked every 15 seconds.
The fact that Windows "worked" led a lot of people to think Windows was doing secret messing with the drives to turn on extra modes that were not in the documentation, and that Ubuntu could not be fixed until this secret was found. However I think somebody could have figured out that it was not doing anything, there were programs (ported from Ubuntu, apparently!) for reading the disk settings under Windows.
It was also known immediatly that setting the disk timeout to 255 stopped this. Who cares if this was not the "secret Windows setting", it was certainly better than how Ubuntu was working at that time. This was known the same day the bug was first talked about! Ubuntu should have immediatly patched it, but somehow the fact that this was not "ideal" caused them to delay for 14 months! That is really bad, guys! I "fixed" mine as best I could with a program I had to run every time I opened the lid (because some stupid startup thing kept turning the timeout back on, and the only way to run my program last was to manually run it!) I eventually decided to go through the hair of actually fixing it and killing off that other thing that tried to do it.
There seemed to be a bunch of conflicting programs, all of them trying to set the disk timeout to 128 or 2. You had to get *all* of them (see next posting for what I did). This is what made it Ubuntu-specific. I sure hope this patch straightens it out so exactly ONE service, and exactly ONE file in /etc, controls the disk timeout!
Yea you can blame Windows all you want, but this was really, really, bad!
And I sure hope the update (which I just did) did not get screwed up by trying to merge with all the changes I did. Have not really checked yet. What a PITA. If they had put out a patch immediatly then they would not have to patch systems that have a hundred different solutions on them.
Uh yeah.
Take a given Windows laptop, boot up with a Linux bootable CD distro, and run
"sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda | grep Load_Cycle"
and see what number you get.
Hint: on my work Dell D420, which is maybe three years old (probably younger) and has run only Windows, that number was about 250,000 head unload/load cycles.
The difference is Microsoft doesn't give a crap about fixing it.
My point wasn't the cheapness, but rather the use of off-the-shelf components and a lack of proprietary crap that increases the cost to me, for instance the use of standard ATX cases and motherboards rather than some non-standard form factor that intentionally limits possible replacements and upgrades to just one source. In the case of eMachines, they may very well have used poor quality original components, but they were off-the-shelf components, meaning that you could easily get replacements and upgrades from numerous sources, not just eMachines.
Could this be the inspiration for the NCBI's logo.
Do you really think it are the same people? Haven't you realised by now that there are windows-trolls, linux-zealots, apple-masturbationists and sane people?
What about all those insane, masturbating, zealot-trolls that have never heard of Windows, Linux, or Apple?
Tisk, Tisk. Not only does this show a narrow world view, but I'm sure any members of the FreeBSD, Solaris, etc. communities reading this won't be very happy with the implication.
Who's modding this funny? That's downright Informative!
...but the data stored on them can often be priceless.
Also...
Many users can't just pick up a screwdriver and replace the failed hard drive.
Many users are not allowed to.
Many users will void warranty if doing so.
For many users it involves a trip to a service center and a waiting period to get their laptops to work again. WITHOUT all their lost data.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
No, you just fed a troll. You're actually supposed to starve them to death.
As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields.
A laptop doing typical work should only need to access the drive every few minutes, batching up writes to conserve energy. If Ubuntu insists upon pathological behaviour because, like many things Unix, it can't shake off its "server heritage", it is up to Ubuntu to say "please, hard drive, act like you're in a desktop".
Well, that's exactly the point. Ubuntu uses the HDD too little and because the HDD is manufactured for Windows-stupid defaults, it gets trashed in Linux AND (notice the AND) in newer, more efficient version of Windows. This is solely the manufacturer's fault, you should not blame Ubuntu, Windows, FreeBSD, whatever for it. And what are complaining about now? Ubuntu is the first to fix it. I'm glad I only use Vista for some stupid College program.
As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields.
If you consider one to be quite a few, then I suppose you are right.
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
Except that's bullshit.
1) Make any claim on slashdot that a program or piece of hardware doesn't work on windows.
2) Watch as apologists claim that it's not windows fault but bad drivers or bad application.
3) Watch as how people make similar claim about Linux and suddenly the blame is placed squarely on Linux.
There was a news story last week "Ubuntu made women quit online classes" or some similar title, where a women ordered an Ubuntu laptop, didn't even try it out and the news station she got in contact with blamed ubuntu for everything even though it worked out the box.
This is for Linux in general, a software update that all distros should adopt, and anyone should be able to install themselves even though currently the latter isn't possible with Linux packaging being hosed.
Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
As someone else mentioned further up it wasn't true. The claims being made that this bug would shorten your hard drive were made by clueless users in the bug report.
225 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 001 001 000 Old_age Always - 1186637
Should I be worried? (Disk is ~2.5 years old)
Quantum hacker.
I call bullshit. My 2 year old laptop running as my main computer has 68000, many of those being from time dualbooting Ubuntu which increased it at a rate of 20 per minute until I applied the dirty fix.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
I'm confused.
Please talking to me like I'm a 2-year-old: What's a load/unload cycle? Is that the same as what we "oldsters" used to call parking/unparking the head?
I have Windows 98 and XP laptops. If this is a hardware bug, do I need to fear their hard drives suffering premature death? I hate death.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I can confirm that the issue does occur on a Debian lenny (testing) laptop (Packard Bell BG45-U-300) with minimal packages installed.
This is easily fixed, however:
apt-get install acpi-support
I don't know how etch (the stable version) is affected, and/or whether the fix has been applied in updates to acpi-support, but it would be worth checking, since there are several pages documenting how to fix the issue when installing Debian etch on a laptop (e.g. here).
Hard drives have "recommended" power-saving values specified in their firmware that say after x minutes of idle time, power me down! Ubuntu used these values.
It turns out these default values were way too low (1-5 minutes), so drives would power off and on very frequently, which shortened their lives.
"This provides a life expectancy of over four years, which is reasonable for a hard disk."
the target is only four years? Am I missing something here?
No wonder I've had so many disk failures, a mere four years is considered /reasonable/ by these asshats.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
According to what I've read in the past, I believe that around 600K load/unload cycles is supposed to start getting in the "bad" range. So, although others have said this issue is all bogus, I'd start making sure my data was backed up if I were you.
Drives are cheap nowadays, but the data on them likely isn't - think what you would miss if that drive just died tomorrow and that's how important backups are.
I also have this problem, with a asus board and a ati card...
You can try this (mtrr-uncover), it might help you...
ftp://ftp.cs.utoronto.ca/pub/hugh/
for me, it locks the machine when tried to remove the 0-4Gb mtrr range, but i read many success reports
Higuita
DAMMIT!!! Why did I click that link?!?!
Eight cases of G.S.O.T.A.B.P.D.S. (Guts sucked out through asshole by pool drain syndrome)?
ewww...wow...but ewww...
Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
Y'know I'm all for fair treatment and equal rights, but won't it be better to simply tone down the MS fud instead of extending it to Linux? : )
So in other words, it's parking the heads. I can see how that would shorten the life of the heads.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The hard disks on two of my Ubuntu laptops have died prematurely. It's sad that this issue get ignored or labelled as flamebait when it is an issue that has cost many people alot of money.
Ubuntu's Laptop Killing Bug Fixed
Ubuntu makes laptops? Cool! I'm going to go right out and buy one of Ubuntu's "Killing Bug" Laptops, now that it has been fixed. I've been looking for a laptop with an interesting name (sorry, "Alienware" isn't interesting enough).
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
There is no mystery as to what the numbers are. You can use smartctl to check these numbers. Also, high Load_Cycle_Count is listed as an Old_Age state by SMART and not a Pre_Fail state so, getting to the "maximum" value isn't actually very dangerous.