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Senate Approves 4-Month Delay In Digital TV Switch

DJRumpy sends word that the US Senate has voted to delay the switch to digital TV until June. "The transition date would move to June 12 from February 17 under the bill that was fueled by worries that viewers are not technically ready for the Congressionally mandated switch-over. It would also allow consumers with expired coupons, available from the government to offset the cost of a $40 converter box, to request new coupons. The government ran out of coupons earlier this month, and about 2.5 million Americans are on a waiting list for them."

438 comments

  1. Ahh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And then it'll be December 17.

    1. Re:Ahh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      ..., 2035.

    2. Re:Ahh... by el+americano · · Score: 4, Informative

      Don't ignore the other aspect of this bill. As a holder of one of the 14 million expired coupons, I look forward to getting and using a new one. I requested so early, that it came in February, with an unexpected 3-month expiration period. For price and selection, I was motivated to wait as long as possible, and time ran out. My mistake, but if I get a second chance, I'll buy it right away.

      I'm unsure if it'll really happen, because the funding looks to have been spent, and there's a waiting list of people who didn't waste their coupon ahead of me, but it's in the article, so it must be true. [sign-up required, editor - or you can change your user-agent to be the googlebot.]

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    3. Re:Ahh... by el+americano · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think I understand now: https://www.dtv2009.gov/Stats.aspx

      There are 11.7 million coupons outstanding. So, if the redemption rate continues below 60%, then that would be enough to cover the 2.5 million coupons on the waiting list and 2 or 3 million more. However, I read elsewhere that current expiration dates would be pushed out to September 15th, so new applicants would probably not be issued any coupons until after that.

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    4. Re:Ahh... by Bootarn · · Score: 4, Informative

      I envy you.

      Here in Sweden, they switched us over without considering the signal coverage in the countryside. Analogue reception was already bad, and it's impossible to put these heavily distorted radio signals together into digital video frames. No, the viewers were not ready. No, the government didn't care.

      And no, they didn't offer coupons for set top boxes either.

    5. Re:Ahh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm totally with Sweden. When has been signed as an inalienable human right the right to watch television? there is a date, prepare yourself.

      and telling that television is essential for reaching people with news and facts about life and politics is a very poor excuse. if the tv is so an efficient medium, then tell me why in hell after 10 year of preparation there are still moron not ready for the switch.

    6. Re:Ahh... by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      Well, consider that switching without adequate provision for the vast majority to pick up DTV will piss a lot of people off, and then consider that governments don't remain in power if they piss people off.
      Also consider the investment in digital TV broadcast masts to ensure you cover the whole country. It is not moronic to be out of range of a digital signal.

    7. Re:Ahh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rebate program started on Jan 1 2007.

      I have no compassion for someone who didn't take the time to get their coupons when they were widely available, then start crying when they are gone - then call for a bailout of the coupon program.

      This digital TV transition process has been in place since 1996 and has been pushed back once already. (The original switchover date wasn't clear, but was intended to occur around 2002).

      Its time to get it over and just switch.

    8. Re:Ahh... by orev · · Score: 1

      If you have enough money to get a computer and post to slashdot, then you should not be getting a coupon and certainly should not be trying for another one. People like you are the reason they ran out of money. The program was intended to help people who *couldn't otherwise afford* the upgrade. For the rest of us, $60 is hardly a stretch.

    9. Re:Ahh... by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Hell, as a non-recipient of non-reissuable coupons which have since expired, I'd love to get a replacement set. That said, I'd prefer my directTV signal to _not_ be an uplink of the abyssmally poor analog signal which the local stations are allowed to send. (Yes, DTV is complicit in only accepting their NTSC feed, but if the only feeds available were digital...)

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    10. Re:Ahh... by Hordeking · · Score: 1

      Well, consider that switching without adequate provision for the vast majority to pick up DTV will piss a lot of people off, and then consider that governments don't remain in power if they piss people off. Also consider the investment in digital TV broadcast masts to ensure you cover the whole country. It is not moronic to be out of range of a digital signal.

      I'd think they'd be more afraid of pissing their lobbies off. After all, the lobbies are the ones that wanted Automatic Gain Control in VCRs and the broadcast flag for digital.

      --
      Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
    11. Re:Ahh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've only know about this since when 2003?

    12. Re:Ahh... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      You can afford an internet connection and computer, but not a $40 converter box without a coupon?

    13. Re:Ahh... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Oh well. I don't care if someone can't watch TV anymore than I can if someone can't afford a bicycle, or a new DVD player.

      I bet your converter boxes were cheaper than ours too.

    14. Re:Ahh... by el+americano · · Score: 1

      This is not intended only for low-income families? This is for everyone who wants to continue using TVs without a digital tuner and will be negatively affected by the change. That's me - and millions of others.

      Where did you get the idea that this was welfare?

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    15. Re:Ahh... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      I *sort* of agree with you, and sort of don't.

      The transition to digital was a *forced* upgrade. While I actually already have two devices (a Tivo Series 3 and a Tivo HD, semi-ironically both currently getting only analog cable) that can receive OTA HD (but I don't have an antenna set up currently, the small rabbit ears antennae I have tried didn't work reliably for me), I do intend on eventually getting a good antenna. This would let my 'main TV' get OTA HD. But I still have other devices with no internal HD tuner. Having some tax money pay for equipment to somewhat alleviate a forced incompatible "upgrade" seems reasonable to me. Yes, the priority should probably be people who _only_ get OTA reception, and don't already have HD tuners (how do you enforce that?).. But the existing rules were that anybody could apply at first, and I have 2 expired coupons too.

      In the past few months, the "free" (after coupon) boxes have shown up. I saw Airlink ones in the Fry's ad in the past few days.

    16. Re:Ahh... by Bootarn · · Score: 1

      Well, we have "dumbed down" converter boxes without support for encrypted channels, with prices in the area of 1000 Swedish kronor, which is about 125 US Dollars.

    17. Re:Ahh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If there's anything good about this, that would be it. Mine seem to have been lost in the mail, I never received them. Of course their policy has been to not issue replacements. So this is good news! I'll have apply again!

    18. Re:Ahh... by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Hmm... how much does a loaf of bread cost in US dollars there? Just trying to get an idea of how much your money is worth.

      Anyway... I still don't care if you or anyone else loses the ablitity to watch TV.

    19. Re:Ahh... by djupedal · · Score: 1

      > Where did you get the idea that this was welfare?

      Where did you get the idea this was about you?

      The thrust comes from those that can benefit from a longer delay. Start with those firms creating the topic related content and go from there to firms such as Sprint and Clearwire. You can thank the lobby industry for the dust-up in any case.

    20. Re:Ahh... by Bootarn · · Score: 1

      Loaf of bread = 20 SEK = (about) 2.40 USD

  2. Just do it! by XanC · · Score: 4, Funny

    One motion! Right off!

    1. Re:Just do it! by matazar · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Seriously, I don't think this is that big of a deal.
      Just make the switch and stop those annoying commercials.

    2. Re:Just do it! by cashman73 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It really doesn't matter when they do it -- February, June, two years ago, two years from now. Either way, they'll still have 2 million clueless idiots cussing out at their TVs wondering what happened to their TV signal. And all of those 2 million will be technologically clueless senior citizens -- anyone under the age of, say, 40, already gets most of their TV from the internet, where it's on demand and there's far fewer commercials.

    3. Re:Just do it! by porcupine8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When they finally do it, instead of shutting off all analog signal they need to make every station in the country broadcast a repeating message for a week explaining what happened and giving instructions plus a phone # to call for more details. That's about the only way to limit the number of angry phone calls that everyone from the electric companies to the stores that sold the remote controls will get.

      Amazingly, my technologically-handicapped grandmother actually noticed the commercials and listened to my dad when he told her about this, so she's fine - I, on the other hand, waited too long and am now on the dtv waiting list. (Though I also might use it as an excuse to upgrade to hd.)

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    4. Re:Just do it! by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm on the fence on this.

      On one had, the economy has tanked which leave people with little to no disposable income. I can imagine some canceling their cable/sat account and going with just over the air programming. By having a four month extension, this will be helpful while the economy rebounds (if it all by that time).

      On the other hand however. By forcing people to switch now, it will force people to start purchasing. Having a healthy economy starts with flow and exchange of money from person to person.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TV from an innertube? What'll they think of next?

    6. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      My 86 year old Grandmother had a converter box when we went over for Christmas. My only complaint is that whomever set it for her had it tuned to analog signals. The instructions were pretty bad for what should have been a box you put between the antenna and the TV then push a scan button.

    7. Re:Just do it! by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm on the fence on this.

      I'm on the fence about whether or not the change is worthwhile -- by all accounts the digital transmissions have worse reception and worse issues with multipath -- but if we accept that it's worthwhile it seems to me that we should stop stonewalling the change. Just get it over with already. Or cancel it and tell Verizon and AT&T to go pound sand (like they were ever gonna give us a third pipe anyway). Either way make a decision already.

      They could delay it for 10 more years and there'd still be people out there that have no clue until the TV stops working and a big graphic comes on that explains why it stopped working.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:Just do it! by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      When they finally do it, instead of shutting off all analog signal they need to make every station in the country broadcast a repeating message for a week explaining what happened and giving instructions plus a phone # to call for more details.

      I believe that's what the plan is although I'd wager that it will be displayed for more than a week. It's not like AT&T and Verizon have roll out plans for that spectrum yet anyway. Hell, the cynic in me thinks their "roll out plan" consisted of "let's buy this up to shut down the third pipe before it starts", so there probably isn't a rush to free up the spectrum.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    9. Re:Just do it! by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And if we hire a thousand kids to throw rocks at windows, it will stimulate the economy by forcing the purchase of new windows!

      Forcing people to buy things they don't need or want with no benefit to them won't stimulate the economy- it will force dollars away from useful purchases to useless ones. It harms the economy, not boosts it.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    10. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Just make the switch and stop those annoying commercials.

      I agree! I just setup my TV with the digital box, and disconnected the analog portion. I'm ready to get this over with!!!

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    11. Re:Just do it! by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Forcing people to buy things they don't need or want with no benefit to them won't stimulate the economy- it will force dollars away from useful purchases to useless ones. It harms the economy, not boosts it.

      What, you mean dumping capital into unproductive ventures isn't the best way to get the economy rolling again? Who knew!

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    12. Re:Just do it! by cashman73 · · Score: 1

      Why in the hell would anyone buy a digital converter and tune the thing to analog signals?!?! Aren't they kind of missing the whole point?!?!

    13. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>>the economy has tanked which leave people with little to no disposable income.

      They can't afford a $40 Dish TR40/DTVpal, or a $50 Zenith converter box??? C'mon. All they have to do is skip their daily candybar snack and they'll have the extra money for the box.

      >>>By having a four month extension, this will be helpful while the economy rebounds

      You don't need to change the original February 17 to continue handing-out coupons, or selling the DTV boxes. In fact, extending the data is *damaging* because it's forcing tv stations to spend double the power output, which they can't afford, and cancel the hiring of technicians who would have performed the antenna upgrades. A delay hurts.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    14. Re:Just do it! by nizo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By forcing people to switch now, it will force people to start purchasing.

      Though delaying it until people theoretically have tax refunds and/or any stimulus to spend seems like a good thing.

    15. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 0

      >>>instead of shutting off all analog signal, they need to make every station in the country broadcast a repeating message for a week explaining what happened

      Impossible. The digital signals will be occupying the space previously occupied by analog (and you should have known that). For example WGAL-DT8 and WBAL-DT11 cannot continue using their analog channel 8 and 11 transmitters, because the DTV signals will occupy that space post-2/17.

      If I was a mod I would demote -1 from your current "4 interesting" score, because your solution is poor engineering.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    16. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>My only complaint is that whomever set it for her had it tuned to analog signals.

      Your comment doesn't even make sense. How do you take a DTV box and tune it to old-fashioned analog signals? The DTV box doesn't even have an analog tuner!

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    17. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You read slashdot, but your grandmother setup a converter box before you did?

      I was hoping that no one on slashdot would buy a converter box. You'd think everyone on slashdot would get their TV over the Internet. Either that or they'd have cable or satellite.

    18. Re:Just do it! by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do it now or do it later. This will have minamal impact on the echonomy. The people who haven't gone digital will not go digital in 4 months or 6 months of 20 years. They will wait until it no longer works. Some will cry ignornacne, money or whatever... But the fact was they didn't care enough to switch early and now they have to pay the piper. I doubt This delay will have any benefit to the delay.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    19. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1, Informative

      >>>>>instead of shutting off all analog signal they need to make every station in the country broadcast a repeating message for a week

      >>I believe that's what the plan is

      Well freedom of religion is a right, so you can believe whatever you want, but it's not true. ;-) When the analog signals turn-off, the digital signals move into the former space. So for example, when WBAL-11 turns-off their analog channels, it will immediately be replaced by WBAL-DT-11. There will be no way for an analog station to exist after the 2/17 cutoff, because a "new tenant" has already moved-in and filled the space.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    20. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >Impossible.

      Not really. Just keep the DTV signals on the temporary UHF frequencies for 30 days after the "transition" and use the analog ones to broadcast the message. Or better yet, start transmitting it now and be ready for the switch in February.

      With appropriate legislation, you could delay the turnover to the new license-holders by the necessary 30 days.

    21. Re:Just do it! by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      I haven't had any issues; and I'm more than 50 miles from the transmitters. Not much in the way of multipath where I am, but signal strength is a definite issue; The digital channels are universally better thus far than the analogs(that have some snow).

      They could delay it for 10 more years and there'd still be people out there that have no clue until the TV stops working and a big graphic comes on that explains why it stopped working.

      Or at least until their TV stops working and they haul themselves to the store to buy a new one(they'd be unlikely to understand a converter box if they're that dumb).

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    22. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TV Stations can still switch to digital early if they want to. I know that one (KSNC-TV, Great Bend, KS) has already been all-digital since October.
      Personally, I'd like to see all the stations turn off the analog signal on the planned date so we can be done with it already.

    23. Re:Just do it! by Cosmic+AC · · Score: 1

      When they finally do it, instead of shutting off all analog signal they need to make every station in the country broadcast a repeating message for a week explaining what happened and giving instructions plus a phone # to call for more details. That's about the only way to limit the number of angry phone calls that everyone from the electric companies to the stores that sold the remote controls will get.

      They're already doing that in Hawaii, as we speak.

    24. Re:Just do it! by davolfman · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but just about every electronics purchase that isn't made by Intel or AMD just goes to further screwing our balance of trade.

    25. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand however. By forcing people to switch now, it will force people to start purchasing. Having a healthy economy starts with flow and exchange of money from person to person.

      So having a healthy economy relies on people being forced by government mandate to purchase stuff to obtain a service 90% identical to what they already have? To quote someone or other: "these are indeed strange and disturbing times".

    26. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignornacne? Is that a case of chronic acne that you're entirely uncognizant of?

        "Dude, you have zits!"

        "What zits?"

        "THOSE ZITS!"

        "Where?"

    27. Re:Just do it! by Majik+Sheff · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't know... I like the commercials... where they talk to me... real slow... so that my inferior... intellect can absorb... all of the information... that has been presented... to me repeatedly.

      --
      Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
    28. Re:Just do it! by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

      It's true, the reception is noticeably worse with DTV. The issues are much more annoying, as it will cut in and cut out, rather than having a relatively linear level of quality based on how good your signal is. I have a nice HDTV, but I'm dreading the switch, as I won't be able to get the channels that don't have a clear enough signal for DTV.

    29. Re:Just do it! by David+M.+Andersen · · Score: 5, Informative

      Obligatory Wikipedia page explaining this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

    30. Re:Just do it! by pete-classic · · Score: 1

      If you think in terms of spectrum being a limited public resource it is very much worth it. We (the Feds) were paid a pretty penny for the existing NTSC spectrum. The new channels can carry more information (six virtual channels) or more quality. (Video quality. I make no claims about the actual content!)

      I'm currently working on all-digital transition on cable. I have gained an appreciation for the value of spectrum.

      -Peter

    31. Re:Just do it! by IorDMUX · · Score: 1

      Actually, the timing of this does matter, though not to who probably comes to mind first when you consider the issue.

      Certain wireless companies are getting hit hard by this change, as we (the companies) purchased portions of the supposed-to-be-former analog spectrum from the FCC. Companies already had roll-out plans in place for new services that were to begin this February which are now being put on hold (as well as all of the support staff and other employees dedicated to the new service) while the government mucks through this mess.

      It's not a pretty picture. We purchased this spectrum, paid for it, built technologies around it, and now are suddenly being told that we can't have it.

      --
      >> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
    32. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You do realize that a lot of the digital signals are already there being broadcast at different frequencies so the newly freed spectrum won't necessarily be used immediately.. Yes this frees up a lot of spectrum that will be used up by whoever can, but what's stopping them from delaying that takeover for a week or so. Because digital tv is already here, there won't be any obvious loss of tv service if you've got yourself a digital box. Hell they've just delayed it by 4 months, what's a couple of weeks?

    33. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Informative

      >>>TV Stations can still switch to digital early if they want to.

      You're about the 10th person on this forum to say that, and it's not true. KSNC received a *waiver* from the FCC due to antenna damage. Other stations have asked for waivers because of economic hardship. Without these waivers they would still be required to continue broadcasting analog.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    34. Re:Just do it! by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Why in the hell would anyone buy a digital converter and tune the thing to analog signals?!?! Aren't they kind of missing the whole point?!?!

      I get more analog signals than I do digital signals. Some digital signals are unwatchable with blocky refreshes and sound cutting in and out, while their analog equivalents are just slightly fuzzy.

    35. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was hoping that no one on slashdot would buy a converter box. You'd think everyone on slashdot would get their TV over the Internet. Either that or they'd have cable or satellite.

      I have a digital television that receives broadcasts over the air, you insensitive clod!

    36. Re:Just do it! by Daa · · Score: 5, Informative

      one problem right now is many DTV signals are not being transmitted at their final full power because they are being sent from temporary transmitters and in many cases on different frequencies than then their final assignment. the stations will switch transmitters and frequencies when the switchover is made.So looking at DTV today does not necessarily tell what the signal will look like after the changeover.

    37. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Just keep the DTV signals on the temporary UHF frequencies for 30 days after the "transition" and use the analog ones to broadcast the message.

      So in other words, change nothing.
      Continue a 50-50 analog-digital simulcast.
      That's NOT a transition or cutoff.

      The word "cutoff" means exactly what it says (we're not living in 1984 with doublespeak - yet). 2/17 at 11:59 p.m. is the cutoff. Analog ends and simply no longer exists after that point, and stations shift to 100% digital instead of the current 50-50 mix.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    38. Re:Just do it! by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      When the analog signals turn-off, the digital signals move into the former space. So for example, when WBAL-11 turns-off their analog channels, it will immediately be replaced by WBAL-DT-11.

      How do you explain the channels that are already broadcasting in both formats then?

      There will be no way for an analog station to exist after the 2/17 cutoff, because a "new tenant" has already moved-in and filled the space.

      Are you sure about that?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    39. Re:Just do it! by michaelhood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No one is mandated to buy anything.

    40. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 0

      >>>You do realize that a lot of the digital signals are already there being broadcast at different frequencies so the newly freed spectrum won't necessarily be used immediately
      >>>

      (sigh)

      Okay please explain to me, using WBAL-11 as example, how will analog continue? On 2/18 WBAL will begin broadcasting digital television on channel 11. So, where are they supposed to broadcast their analog "please buy a box" signal??? The transmitter is set for 11 - but 11 will be oocupied by DT-11. Hmmmm. No room!

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    41. Re:Just do it! by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Hey you, get offa my lawn! I'm quite a bit over 40 and haven't watched "live" TV in years. I'm proud to say I have no idea what commercials are like nowdays. I hear it's mostly about various colored pills.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    42. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know what, I'll give them this IF tey so something.

      Force all Cable and Sattelite and Over the air broadcasters. to air point blank Tv commercials 2 times every hour that state..

      IF YOU DONT HAVE A NEW TV OR A CONVERTER BOX YOUR TV WILL NOT WORK, DONT CALL US TO BITCH ABOUT IT. IF YOU FORGET , YOU ARE STUPID!!!

      I'm tired that the world caters to the lowest IQ. you would have to been under a rock for the past year to not know about the switchover. but it seems that even in Hawaii, a place that has a smaller population, the idiots are in such a large number ,they overwhelmed the switchboards (Ok, 2 phone lines) at the local FCC when they did an early switch that was advertised all over the place for over 1 year..

      Things need to be made hard for the stupid. Because they are breeding and spreading stupid.

    43. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      P.S.

      I freely admit I'm losing patience.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    44. Re:Just do it! by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      If there's anything the government does not need to be subsidizing, it is TV watching for American fatasses.

    45. Re:Just do it! by jasha · · Score: 1

      No money for a candybar? Then let them eat cake!

    46. Re:Just do it! by SuperQ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It is worthwhile. For this one reason. Gigawatts.

      Using data from the FCC, http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html I calculated the sum total effective radiated power of all TV stations in the US.

      Total for ATV: 3.6 GW
      Total for DTV: 1.5 GW

      Savings before you factor in transmitter efficiencies: 2.1 GW.

      I have no idea what the real efficiency of a TV transmitter is, but if it were 80% input to ERP you get about 4.5 GW of energy used to keep running ATV.

      Over the 115 day extension that's 12.3 Terawatt-hours.

    47. Re:Just do it! by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Those of us just over 40 get our TV from mythTV recorders spread around relatives homes. Commercials stripped out and auto converting to mpeg4 files. We do out TV piracy old-skool. we "give" grandma a PVR that she loves and records her shows. It happens to record my shows and fires them back home over the cablemodem we buy her with the rest of the family. (I pay $5.00 a month for my portion) inlaws have one on a different cable company that actually has SCIFI as an unencrypted HD QAM, and a Third at my brothers in florida.. I like their tv programming.

      They all get a "free" PVR, I get "free" cable Tv that is from the "internet"...

      I LOVE Mythtv :) now get off my lawn!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    48. Re:Just do it! by BakaHoushi · · Score: 1

      The sad thing is, I can hear a flock (herd? school? murder?) of pundits, "experts," and analysts saying this exact phrase, only without the sarcasm.

    49. Re:Just do it! by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      If we force people to buy marginally-expensive boxes, thus freeing up a huge band of VHF that we can then use for Internet service, it's not really comparable to broken windows. There's a difference between paying someone to break a window and paying someone to bulldoze a condemned building.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    50. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1, Informative

      >>>How do you explain the channels that are already broadcasting in both formats then

      Well using my local stations, WBAL-11 and WGAL-8 and WPVI-6, here's what happens before and after 2/17:

      DT-56 ----> moves to ----> DT-11
      11 (analog) ---> dead

      DT-58 -----> moves to ---->DT-9
      8 (analog) ----> dead

      DT-64 -----> moves to ---->DT-6
      6 (analog) ----> dead

      The digital channels move to their permanent homes, and the analog disappears forever. It cannot continue because that space is *already occupied* by a new tenant. Clear? Or do I need to speak more s-l-o-w-l-y? (How did marketing majors get into this forum?) (I mean, I've only repeated this story ~5 times now, and some of ye are still not grasping it.)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    51. Re:Just do it! by IorDMUX · · Score: 1
      I know I mentioned this elsewhere in the comments, but I wanted to agree with you and raise another point that most people haven't heard of.

      In fact, extending the data is *damaging* because it's forcing tv stations to spend double the power output, which they can't afford, and cancel the hiring of technicians who would have performed the antenna upgrades. A delay hurts.

      I work for a wireless company who purchased portions of the spectrum that the analog broadcasters are supposed to be moving out of. We have new services and technical improvements which utilize this spectrum, which means that we also have--as you mentioned--technicians to perform the upgrades and changes who are now on hold, support staff who now will have nothing to do until June, etc.

      Though I agree that $50 is not a drop in the bucket to many, (I'm the kind of person who purchases the $1.25 pasta rather than the $1.75 pasta) I think that the negative effects of the government waffling on the issue are far greater than a decisive go or no go decision.

      As I said in my other comment: we purchased this spectrum, paid for it, built technologies around it, and now are suddenly being told that we can't have it.

      --
      >> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
    52. Re:Just do it! by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      The digital channels move to their permanent homes, and the analog disappears forever. It cannot continue because that space is *already occupied* by a new tenant. Clear?

      So the various stories saying they will leave messages up after the transition are all lying?

      Or do I need to speak more s-l-o-w-l-y?

      The sarcasm isn't called for. Show some respect to your lower uid elders ;)

      How did marketing majors get into this forum?

      Ouch. That's a pretty big insult ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    53. Re:Just do it! by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 2, Funny

      anyone under the age of, say, 40, already gets most of their TV from the internet, where it's on demand and there's far fewer commercials.

      Danger! Danger!! Reality Disconnect Detected!! Please re-connect individual with general populace as soon as possible to achieve proper perspective. Thank you.

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    54. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That pretty much sums what's wrong with economy. If everything worked like it should, breaking windows would be a bad thing. However, our system can't cope with unemployment so destroying wealth is more preferable to that.

      There's hell of a lot of window breaking going on if you keep your eyes open. Wars, enterprise ecosystems, projects that are known to be failures, christmas sales madness, a number of downright antisocial products.. it's everywhere.

    55. Re:Just do it! by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      by all accounts the digital transmissions have worse reception and worse issues with multipath

      Just to add a datapoint for you. I'm in a large city (NYC) with a big building blocking the path to midtown where the antennas are... analog gave me almost no reception - certainly nothing clear. Using the same antenna I get most of the major networks. The signal sometimes drops out a little and I get those funny digital artifacts or lose the sound for a second, but not often enough to sour the average ball game or sitcom. We NEVER watched analog TV because of the quality, but now we'll occasionally fire up the TV.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    56. Re:Just do it! by P00k13 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't really make sense to do it in the middle of the busy part of the tv season. When people lose their signal, at least in June they won't miss their shows before they get it fixed. February is the busy part of the TV season that people don't want to miss.

    57. Re:Just do it! by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Funny

      Over the 115 day extension that's 12.3 Terawatt-hours.

      What's that in burning-libraries-of-congress?

      C'mon man, use STANDARDS.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    58. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cos you're too cheap to buy an HD capable tv

    59. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey you, get offa my lawn! I'm quite a bit over 40 and haven't watched "live" TV in years. I'm proud to say I have no idea what commercials are like nowdays. I hear it's mostly about various colored pills.

      Maybe you oughtta start paying attention to those pill commercials, gramps. You might need 'em soon.

    60. Re:Just do it! by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I wonder how much of that then has to do with the quality of your TV and/or converter box? A friend of mine lived in almost the exact same situation (albeit in Boston and not in NYC) and where he previously had ghosted images in analog he had no reception at all on digital. It would get a picture but freeze the frame while keeping the audio or all sorts of other strange affects. I've also read similar stories from others.

      It would be interesting to see a study done with various models of TV/converter boxes to see if the more expensive ones do a better job of working with crappier signal. It wouldn't surprise me but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of information out there on this yet.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    61. Re:Just do it! by kent_eh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have no idea what the real efficiency of a TV transmitter is, but if it were 80% input to ERP you get about 4.5 GW of energy used to keep running ATV.

      Given that a TV transmitter is mostly just a huge power amplifier, and in my experience most of the higher powered ones contain at least a couple of tubes*, I'd be surprised if the efficiency got over 50%
      As a matter of fact, it looks like it's lower than that. Take a look and do your own math.

      * Why tubes in this day and age?
      They are a proven reliable way of amplifying up to 100s of kilowatts. Transistor amplifiers get very complex even as low as 10KW (the biggest solid state transmitter I've personally worked on). And when they fail it usually takes out dozens, if not hundreds of components. Replacing a pair of final amplifier tubes, and maybe a capacitor after a lightning strike can get you back on the air in an hour or 2.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    62. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      >>>So the various stories saying they will leave messages up after the transition are all lying?

      In the case of WBAL, WGAL, and WPVI..... yes. It will be physically-impossible. For example, WBAL can't simulcast both DT-11 and Analog-11 at the same time and on the same frequency; it would just create garbage on people's televisions.

      >>>Show some respect to your lower uid elders ;-)

      Yes well, how many times do I have to say 2 + 2 == 4? Like I said I repeated my story about WBAL, WGAL, and WPVI around 5 times now, and yet people keep telling me I'm wrong. BTW I've been on the internet since 1987 (shortly after Star Trek TNG premiered). I think that makes me the elder. ;-)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    63. Re:Just do it! by geekmux · · Score: 2, Funny

      It is worthwhile. For this one reason. Gigawatts.

      ...Over the 115 day extension that's 12.3 Terawatt-hours.

      Holy shit. If my math is right, I could travel back in time, if I can get a set of rabbit ears to reach 88MPH...

    64. Re:Just do it! by Skapare · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually it is true. Early in the transition, waivers were needed. Towards the end, this was eliminated. You might want to read some details here.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    65. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "anyone under the age of, say, 40, already gets most of their TV from the internet, where it's on demand and there's far fewer commercials"

      What planet do you live on? I want to move there.

    66. Re:Just do it! by geekmux · · Score: 1

      >>>TV Stations can still switch to digital early if they want to.

      You're about the 10th person on this forum to say that, and it's not true. KSNC received a *waiver* from the FCC due to antenna damage. Other stations have asked for waivers because of economic hardship. Without these waivers they would still be required to continue broadcasting analog.

      Ah, "waivers because of economic hardship"?!? Anyone else smell another bailout coming?

    67. Re:Just do it! by nine-times · · Score: 1

      It is worthwhile. For this one reason. Gigawatts.

      What the hell is a gigawatt?

    68. Re:Just do it! by frieko · · Score: 1

      The reception is worse because the ATSC stations can't transmit at full power until the NTSC stations go dark. ATSC interferes with NTSC reception.

    69. Re:Just do it! by toddestan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some pass through the analog signal when turned off. So all it would take is to hook it up, and never actually turn it on. I can see some people doing exactly that.

    70. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they can't. The change to DTV is hoped to be accomplished after Democrats in the House passed the DTV voucher a.k.a. the economic stimulus and Obama signs it. It's very important part of the stimulus. How else the adoring public can follow what Obama does without the daily report from the media?

    71. Re:Just do it! by nine-times · · Score: 1
      Or my alternate post:

      Savings before you factor in transmitter efficiencies: 2.1 GW.

      2.1 gigawatts? 1.21 GIGAWATTS? Great Scott!

    72. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand however. By forcing people to switch now, it will force people to start purchasing. Having a healthy economy starts with flow and exchange of money from person to person.

      I have a really hard time believing that people buying TV converter boxes get others to buy houses and cars. Or give people at IBM, Microsoft, AMD, and Dell their jobs back. Aren't they even subsidized by the Gov.?

      You give far too much credit to this one small little product.

    73. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But my converter box draws current even when not in use!

    74. Re:Just do it! by Cernst77 · · Score: 1

      Mod Parent FUNNY! I turned many shades of oxygen - deprived blue and purple trying to STOP laughing at this clever pun on a spelling error!

    75. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have no idea what the real efficiency of a TV transmitter is, but if it were 80% input to ERP you get about 4.5 GW of energy used to keep running ATV.

      Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your meaning was, but two notes (pardon if I missed your intention):

      (1) ERP != TPO of transmitter. For instance, my analog transmitter's TPO is 50kW, but my ERP is 1MW. TPO * antenna gain = ERP.

      (2) Typical analog transmitter efficiency is 10-35%. Typical digital transmitter efficiency is 25-50%. Depends on frequency and tube technology. FWIW, my analog is based around dual klystrons (YK-1265 if anyone is interested). My efficiency is about 9%. I use just over 500kW from the grid to make 50kW TPO on the analog. It costs me US$10k/month to run that *&^%$# thing, and I want it off NOW!

      IANATH (tree hugger) but this is ridiculous. I seriously think the environment can do without the 450kW I waste running that POS.

    76. Re:Just do it! by Cernst77 · · Score: 1

      Do it now or do it later. This will have minamal impact on the echonomy.

      Hey! can I buy an echo? LOL I think jello needs to try a spell checker! But at least I got a couple chuckles out of his errors!

    77. Re:Just do it! by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      Forcing? You talk like TV is some kind of necessity. TV is a large waste of time. Worse than WoW. Maybe this change will help people. Push them a little towards other, more active entertainment.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    78. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "anyone under the age of, say, 40, already gets most of their TV from the internet, where it's on demand and there's far fewer commercials"

      Care to back that up? I'm 29 and I don't know anyone aside from me who gets most of their TV from the internet.

    79. Re:Just do it! by Toonol · · Score: 1
      I've heard that many times, but never seen an actual reliable source for that information. I'm not arguing, but do you have a source? Is this most transmission, all, or just some? I'd like to read up.

      I'm concerned, because I only get OTA signals, and they're currently far worse with digital.

    80. Re:Just do it! by Ron+Bennett · · Score: 1

      Regardless of whether they need a waiver, I wouldn't be surprised to hear reports of many stations claiming sudden, unexpected "antenna damage" prior to June-12th so as to switch "early" on Feb-17th.

      It will be interesting to what the public reaction is come Spring time when many stations have already switched despite assurances from politicians that the deadline was extended to June-12th. People will be even more confused, and upset.

      Ron

    81. Re:Just do it! by Toonol · · Score: 1

      That may not be a fair comparison, because the quality of the signal at a given strength is not necessarily the same between ATV and DTV. In other words, the savings in gigawatts is coming at the price of cutting off service to outlying areas. That could have been done with analog.

    82. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point of migrating to digital terrestrial television transmission is to enable more channels in a smaller bandwidth, not necessarily to increase quality.

      For example, here in Sweden, when we went from analogue terrestrial transmission to digital a few years ago, we went from having three free-to-air channels available on digital, to having 8 free-to-air channels with the option to purchase subscriptions to get access to up to 25 more.

      To get that kind of selection, you used to have to install a satellite dish or have cable.

      Also, here in Sweden, there were no coupons for DTV receiver boxes, unlike in socialist America. (How pathetic do you have to be as a nation to have a waiting list... for *coupons*?)

    83. Re:Just do it! by Daa · · Score: 2, Informative

      Every station was given a second frequency and could chose what to do with it in the long run. The answer is to contact your local stations and ask what their situation is. You can check the FCC license database which will show 2 DTV licenses for those stations that will switch from a temporary low power system to a permanent high power system.

    84. Re:Just do it! by Toonol · · Score: 1

      And I'm dropping from six clear analog channels to three really clear and three boxy stuttering 'kaleidoscope' digital channels. NBC and FOX, for instance, are nearly unwatchable via digital.

      Anecdotally, it seems to effect people both ways. We'd have to see a study to get real results. The FCC may have done one, but I wouldn't trust it.

    85. Re:Just do it! by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Forcing people to buy things they don't need or want with no benefit to them won't stimulate the economy- it will force dollars away from useful purchases to useless ones. It harms the economy, not boosts it.

      Actually this conversion is the antitheses of the broken windows fallacy; instead digital uses an existing limited resource more efficiently, which will pay dividends indefinitely. By converting the wasteful analog transmissions to more efficient digital, they reclaimed a resource which then sold for $20 billion dollars. Of that, about $1.3 billion was spent defraying the cost of digital converter boxes, which undercuts your argument of forcing people to buy them.

      The spectrum we used to use for TV will now be used for TV plus broadband plus who knows what. That is a net win.

    86. Re:Just do it! by camperdave · · Score: 1

      On one had, the economy has tanked which leave people with little to no disposable income. I can imagine some canceling their cable/sat account and going with just over the air programming. By having a four month extension, this will be helpful while the economy rebounds (if it all by that time).

      On the other hand however. By forcing people to switch now, it will force people to start purchasing. Having a healthy economy starts with flow and exchange of money from person to person.


      On yet another hand, people have had ample time to prepare, so it's their own fault if they're not ready. If they can't afford cable and/or satellite and/or a converter box, then they'll just have to *gasp* read a book, or go for a walk, or play board games with their family, or do some gardening, or build a model, or volunteer, or...

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    87. Re:Just do it! by iWill · · Score: 1

      The ERP is the Effective isotropic Radiated Power, or in other words, the amount of power that would be required to produce a uniform spherical radiation pattern having the same magnitude as that of the peak of a non-isotropic or directional radiation pattern. TV antennas are just big dipoles, and the radiation pattern looks something like a doughnut. They don't waste power radiating straight up into the atmosphere or down into the ground below the antenna. The ratio of actual radiated power to EIRP for a dipole is something like 1/20, so you would adjust the FCC ERP numbers down accordingly before adding transmitter inefficiency back in.

    88. Re:Just do it! by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      In other words, the savings in gigawatts is coming at the price of cutting off service to outlying areas.

      I'm one of those 'outlying areas', I pick up DTV just fine. Though I have to wonder at the presumed power savings; most stations I know of that are transmitting in both are going to turn off their analog transmitters and switch the digital transmitter to their originally assigned channel/frequency, and broadcast at full power. Just digitally, which allows something like 3 video streams per channel.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    89. Re:Just do it! by izomiac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It seems to me that, before the switchover, they should mandate annoying 1 or 2 minute "commercials" (in progressively increasing frequency) saying something to the effect that "This is an analog TV station, it will not work past X, this is how to get a converter box". The key would be to *only* show these commercials on analog stations, perhaps even have shorter ones saying "Your TV is ready for the switchover" on digital ones, satellite, and cable. I don't watch TV, so I don't care much, but it was a challenge figuring out if it was receiving digital channels or not since it's the same content on both. I basically had to judge based on reception artifacts, so I suspect many people are assuming their "new" TVs are ready...

    90. Re:Just do it! by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It really doesn't matter when they do it -- February, June, two years ago, two years from now. Either way, they'll still have 2 million clueless idiots cussing out at their TVs wondering what happened to their TV signal.

      Well, according to the summary there are 2.5 million people on the coupon waiting list. So that group of people, at least, are not clueless - they want to convert, and for them waiting does matter - it will save them $40 or $80 each.

    91. Re:Just do it! by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Funny. There's sort of a Slashdot effect at play here, where somebody self-selects their friends to the point they lose the ability to form a non-biased statistical idea of what a typical person is like. Streaming movies and TV is an option for a small percentage of the population, and most of THOSE have no desire to do it regularly. The vast majority (I'm sure 95%+, probably 99%+) of those under-40 get all or the vast majority of their TV shows off the... TV.

    92. Re:Just do it! by AngelofDeath-02 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wish I shared your experience. I live in Phoenix and i can't even walk across the living room without interrupting the signal. Also, instead of getting partial snow or a possibly wavy picture you get nothing, or at best blocks of your picture.

      My solution? Download them. I watch two shows and I can buy the dvd's when the next season starts.

      --
      No, I am not an English major. My posts are subject to typos and incorrect grammar. Do not expect perfection.
    93. Re:Just do it! by bXTr · · Score: 1

      The sarcasm isn't called for. Show some respect to your lower uid elders ;)

      Speak for yourself, punk. :P

      --
      It's a very dark ride.
    94. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NBC and FOX, for instance, are nearly unwatchable via digital.

      And this is a bad thing?

    95. Re:Just do it! by bXTr · · Score: 1

      Finally, the resurgence of the Town Crier. I've been waiting my whole life for this.

      --
      It's a very dark ride.
    96. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know of several OTA stations transmitting in HD at higher quality than some cable providers *coughcomcastcough* and some of us have objects blocking us from satellite signals.

    97. Re:Just do it! by lord_sarpedon · · Score: 1

      Go back to bed dad

      --
      "Strangers have the best candy" -Me
    98. Re:Just do it! by NonUniqueNickname · · Score: 1

      2.1 Gigawatts?? Great Scott!!

      Historically, recession meant more people staying at home and getting their entertainment fix from the tube. Those millions of converter boxen are going to need a lot of juice to turn digital Regis into analog Regis. They probably draw some current when the TV is off too.

      The math of saving energy is easier when you look at a fraction of the system. But only meaningful when you account for everything.

    99. Re:Just do it! by syousef · · Score: 1

      Total for ATV: 3.6 GW

      You have an All Terrain Vehicle that requires 3.6 GW??? It must be way better than that crummy Delorian that uses 1.21 GW. Does it go further back in time too?

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    100. Re:Just do it! by Toonol · · Score: 1

      When you're looking at a pool composed of them plus CBS, ABC, a religious channel, and a few CW/WB/MyTV or some such network I can't even remember the name of... yeah, they're small fish, but in an especially tiny pond.

    101. Re:Just do it! by Hossicle · · Score: 1

      A rolling blackout would have gotten the message across better than the commercials. My solution: Starting 7 weeks before Feb 17th I would have blacked out analog channels each night of the week (ie Week 1 = Sunday, Week 2 = Monday), During that dead air on the analog stations broadcast nothing but instructions on all analog channels (DTV is normal shows). If your TV is broke then you know right away and you will seek a solution on your own.

    102. Re:Just do it! by Tacvek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It seems to me that, before the switchover, they should mandate annoying 1 or 2 minute "commercials" (in progressively increasing frequency) saying something to the effect that "This is an analog TV station, it will not work past X, this is how to get a converter box". The key would be to *only* show these commercials on analog stations, perhaps even have shorter ones saying "Your TV is ready for the switchover" on digital ones, satellite, and cable. I don't watch TV, so I don't care much, but it was a challenge figuring out if it was receiving digital channels or not since it's the same content on both. I basically had to judge based on reception artifacts, so I suspect many people are assuming their "new" TVs are ready...

      Parts of that do have. They have mandatory commercials and news segments. It would be nice to have special commericals that are format specific. Analog would warn about the switchover.

      Digital would remind people that they have everything they need and starting at the switchover date they can use the old channel numbers again.

      Satellite and cable cos should use their commercial replacement systems (yes they do own special equipment to allow them to replace commercials in the original feeds) with the least annoying possible commercial that reminds viewers that they will not be impacted, and thanks them for choosing $NAME_OF_PROVIDER.

      If the whole system was well run, the government would have mandated such commercials, and provided examples to the companies. They would also mandate inclusion of some special tag in the analog and OTA digital feeds to make it easy for the cable and sat providers to detect and replace the commercials.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    103. Re:Just do it! by Detritus · · Score: 1

      It's on the FCC web site, in excruciating detail.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    104. Re:Just do it! by Detritus · · Score: 1

      It isn't the cost of the box, it's the generation of the chipset. The latest chipsets do a much better job of handling multipath. So a cheap box with a current chipset may trounce older and more expensive boxes.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    105. Re:Just do it! by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

      That's exactly why we should switch now-- they'll have nothing better to do but work since they won't have TV anymore!

    106. Re:Just do it! by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      Good thing I'm not an engineer then, and that that's not a requirement for posting on slashdot.

      Though if that's true (which... other comments are saying it's not?), then it sounds like piss-poor planning on the part of whoever told the engineers what problem it was they needed to solve.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    107. Re:Just do it! by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      I pointed it out specifically because it was ironic. Good catch.

      That's what I wind up doing half the time anyhow, but I'm also impatient and dislike waiting a day to find my shows if I don't have to. Cable and satellite cost absurd amounts of money for something I really wouldn't use that much.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    108. Re:Just do it! by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      Sooooo... What would be so hard about waiting an extra week to move those channels into the analog spaces, if they're capable of broadcasting simultaneously right now? That doesn't seem like a very difficult engineering problem to me.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    109. Re:Just do it! by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > Maybe you oughtta start paying attention to those pill commercials, gramps. You might need 'em soon.

      You can avoid acid reflux by eating early and reducing liquids after 6:00 PM. Nothing to it.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    110. Re:Just do it! by beckerist · · Score: 1

      Likewise. No snow with the digital signal, just the sounds drops out first then the video turns into choppy blocks. Analog with a tiny bit of snow was fine, no sound and blocky picture sucks.

      This isn't on all channels, but I used to get about 20 different channels on my rabbit ears and now I get about 25, but most of them are repeats (3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.4...all show the same thing 90% of the time, or the weather...meh)

      I think the switch to digital is healthy. As I understand it it requires a lot more bandwidth (spectrum?) to send analog vs. digital, therefore that same bandwidth can be used for other things. I just wish it wasn't losing one (quality) for the other (quantity.)

    111. Re:Just do it! by beckerist · · Score: 2, Informative
    112. Re:Just do it! by beckerist · · Score: 4, Informative

      Duh. That wasn't it. In my haste I posted a dumb link. I found a lot more info here: http://www.tvfool.com/

    113. Re:Just do it! by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hit tvfool.com, get a projected reception listing of all the digital stations near your zip code. They base their information from the FCC transaction announcements. Its screamingly obvious there will be many shifts in digital frequencies (channels) at and after the cutover. I also believe, based on printed power levels, there will be a marked increase in transmitting power after the cutover, in order for broadcasters to meet mandated reception range targets. avsforum.com is a great website, and has forums geared to your locality, because every market (100 miles) is different.

      DTV looks gorgeous on my TV. But it drives me up the wall that my PBS station doesn't come in, because it got shafted over to the tail end of the spectrum, and power in the tens of kilowatts, rather than hundreds of kilowatts. I will finally get PBS back when the damned cutover FINALLY takes effect!

      Also, because there is (now) no cutover mandate, digital stations keep screwing around with power and transmission locations. A few weeks ago, I got great ABC reception, now its "disappeared". DTV is WELL worth the cutover hassle.

      The problem is that you have to be geekier to understand how to get optimal digital reception. People in the 'burbs will have to screw around more with outdoor antennas on roofs in order to get acceptable reception. Renters in the 'burbs are pretty much screwed.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    114. Re:Just do it! by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its been unofficially done on avsforum.com. The answer is:

      Zenith DTT-901 (cobranded as Insignia NS-DXA1)
          Sold at major box stores like bestbuy, target, etc. Its what I have. Tip: get the latest version product (currently october 2008 on the bar code.)

      or

      ChannelMaster 7000
            Unfortunately, they don't seem to carry them at the box stores.

      =====

      Being a fellow NYCer (Bronx), I can tell you if you live in the boroughs, they're irradiating us with UHF. I live in a ground floor apartment, and I'm getting UHF reception with a loose rg-6 cable! Your pal's problem is not (really) with weak signals, but with multipathing. The Zenith is good with that, but he's best off getting an antenna designed to ameliorate "multipathing".
      ex. - Philips Silver Sensor. It looks like a triangular raygun made of silver tongue depressors. A homemade Grey-Hoverman antenna could do the job too. If he lives directly behind a blocking apartment tower, he's probably screwed. The reason why we get crappy reception with DTV now? Its because none of the stations can broadcast at FULL POWER until AFTER the cutover!

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    115. Re:Just do it! by kelnos · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They can't afford a $40 Dish TR40/DTVpal, or a $50 Zenith converter box??? C'mon. All they have to do is skip their daily candybar snack and they'll have the extra money for the box.

      Wow, can you really be that ignorant?

      --
      Xfce: Lighter than some, heavier than others. Just right.
    116. Re:Just do it! by kelnos · · Score: 1

      No, I think he's just advocating a 2-stage cutoff. On one particular date, cease all "normal" broadcasting on the analog stations, and instead put up a static image (on the analog stations) giving information on what people need to do to get to their normal programming on DTV. Leave that going for, say, 30 days, and then shut down the analog stations entirely. Congress could certainly draft and pass through legislation to that effect. Instead we're just getting a 4-month delay that really won't do much. At the end of the 4 months, there will be close to the same number of clueless people complaining that their TV doesn't work.

      --
      Xfce: Lighter than some, heavier than others. Just right.
    117. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. On slashdot, I've learned there can be some colossally ignorant people. Due to demographics, they slant towards upper middle class white males, with all the ignorant attitudes towards lower classes, nonwhites, and women that entails.

        Personally I haven't got a DTV box yet. They still hadn't mailed my coupon when they announced there was no more money, and I can't afford $40 or $50 for a tv box. I can scarcely afford groceries, telephone, and internet as it is. My "daily candybar snack" is maybe a bag of cheap candy from the 99-cent store, maybe once every week or two. So if I cut that out entirely, I can maybe afford a DTV box without a coupon in about 40 to 60 weeks! So wow, the GP is a friggin' genius.

    118. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the majority of people in the country don't want (or need) broadband, either.

      That's not to say it'd be better than what they currently have, and they may enjoy it once they finally have it.

      Would you have said the same thing about moving from black and white to color? People'd didn't NEED color. It may be arguable if they wanted it or not (though I think having to buy a new TV would stop a lot from "upgrading.")

      Still, this time you don't NEED a brand new TV, you just need a small converter box. Hook it up like a VCR or Cable and YOU'RE DONE! Simple, painless, fairly inexpensive, and a good quality digital signal beats the heck out of an analog signal. Clearer picture, and better sound (even surround). I think when people upgrade they will be pleasantly surprised and happy they did.

    119. Re:Just do it! by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Hawaii changed over on January 15th. It would be nice if someone who lives there could share their experiences and tell us if reception really did improve a lot after the cut off.

    120. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This method worked great with the arms industry

    121. Re:Just do it! by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      Can I put the above forward as a new, official Slashdot meme? Love it!

    122. Re:Just do it! by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 1

      The problems with MultiPath comes from the system chosen in the USA. Had DVB-T been chosen, some of the multipath issues would have been diminished.

      --
      Have a nice day!
    123. Re:Just do it! by xaxa · · Score: 2, Informative

      The UK found an increased energy cost for consumers (because they'd need a set-top box), and a much reduced energy cost for transmitters. http://help.digitaluk.co.uk/psi/kb/article.aspx?aid=6253

    124. Re:Just do it! by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I'm in the UK so our converter boxes are on different tech but i've found the age of the box to be far more significant than the cost.

      The boxes sold just after the switchover from ITV digital to freeview when everyone was trying to get the price down seem to be the worst whereas nowadays even the dirt cheap boxes seem pretty good.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    125. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why tubes

      In the RF world silicon doesn't come close to the response of good tubes. Tubes are used in most high-end communications gear and radar. Silicon tends to distort the signal due to odd harmonics.

      That's the short explanation. Take Introduction to Radar at you local post-grad school for the long one.

    126. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      It's also worth nothing that this process has been ongoing for TEN YEARS. The first DTV broadcasts started in 1999, and people have had plenty of time to buy the required boxes to receive those transmissions. If, after ten years, and with the additional help of these coupons (out for one year), some people still don't have a box then it's their own dumb fault.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    127. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Yes. On slashdot, I've learned there can be some colossally ignorant people.

      And a lot of them are on the bottom rung.

      >>>Personally I haven't got a DTV box yet.

      You've had TEN YEARS to upgrade and receive the digital broadcast. What have you been waiting for? And I don't why you say you can't afford it; you're online which costs around $20 a month and $250 a year. A cellphone costs a similar amount. If you can afford that $250*2 == $500 for net/phone, then surely you can afford a $40 TR-40 from dtvpal.com, or a $50 Zenith from Kmart.

      Even in my worst days, when I was $20,000 in debt and unemployed, I still had the ability to scrounge up a measly $40.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    128. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Why wait at all? This transition has been ongoing since 1999!!!

      Messages scroll across the analog signal ("Upgrade or lose tv!") almost constantly. If people still haven't gotten the message after ten years time, and constant reminders for the last several months, it's because they're stupid or severe procrastinators. An extra week is not going to make a difference to these types of persons; they'll still be unprepared.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    129. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      What?

      Are these persons too stupid to read the scroll across the bottom of their screen & go buy a box? They've already had ten years since DTV first started. They've had a year to apply for a coupon. And constant reminders. I don't think such stupidos deserve any extra time.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    130. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      Using my local stations, WBAL-11 and WGAL-8 and WPVI-6, here's what happens before and after 2/17:

      DT-56 ----> moves to ----> DT-11
      11 (analog) ---> dead

      DT-58 -----> moves to ---->DT-8
      8 (analog) ----> dead

      DT-64 -----> moves to ---->DT-6
      6 (analog) ----> dead

      The digital channels move to their permanent homes, and the analog disappears forever. The analog cannot continue because that space is *already occupied* by a new tenant. Clear? :-)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    131. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      The engineers were counting on:
      - Marketers communicating the need to buy a box ASAP through advertising & scrolls.

      The marketers were probably counting on:
      - Viewers having enough brains to listen to the messages/commercials instead of ignoring them.

      As you can tell, I blame the viewers. If they don't have a box, then it's their own dumb fault.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    132. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This writer has not seen any really relevant comments here about the real reason that this 'switch to digital' is happening. A quote from a Reuters news story on 27Jan09 follows:
            "Broadcasters are moving from analog to digital signals to give public safety officials more spectrum, especially useful for emergencies, and to improve viewing quality."
          The above is the cover story. Digital is only good in the immediate broadcasting area of the station and falls off quickly in the near fringes. This is especially good for censorship and propaganda regimes to limit the audience and tailor the message, and to provide for broadcast flags, DRM, and targeted advertising to captive audiences. The republicans and their RIAA and MPAA allies wanted this a done deal in secret and all the way through before the election, however the GOP probably thought that yet another close election could be stolen just like in 2000 and 2004. The rest of the article's relevant section follows:

      "Momentum had been building for a delay since President Barack Obama backed it earlier this month.

      The digital TV bill also would extend the licenses of AT&T Inc and Verizon Communications, which are waiting for the airwaves to be vacated when all TVs convert. The companies, which paid $16 billion for the public airwaves in an auction last year, would get 116 extra days on their licenses under the proposed legislation. CTIA, the wireless trade association, has said a delay could hurt confidence in the FCC's spectrum auctions."

      And that, sports fans, is the real reason for forcing all Americans to pay television. The republicans sold the television's frequencies out from under them to two huge monopolies, AT$T and Verizon (soon to be absorbed back into 'Ma Bell' along with NYNEX and Southern Bell, completing the re-integration of the old ATT monopoly broken up by antitrust action in court in the nineteen sixties) and Comcast. The republicans did this not only for money, but also to sell off national infrastructure to please these monopolies and their evil trade associations (wonder who Count Dookoo from 'Star Wars' is). The public is last in this deal, and will have to shell out billions in fees to these monopolies for literally forever only to get less than nothing in return but corporate socialism from the gestapolike group that the RIAA has become. All these companies are planning to offer or presently offer 'pay to watch' television over telephone lines or cable lines or satellite hookups and stand to directly gain from their 'investments' in political campaign funds. Too poor to afford pay television, sit on your porch like your grandparents did before television and radio!

    133. Re:Just do it! by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      The fact that many DTV stations will be changing frequencies is why the warning ads are saying that you'll need to 'Hook up your converter, scan for channels, and scan again on 2/17 to be sure you get all the channels that moved."

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    134. Re:Just do it! by nanoflower · · Score: 1

      That's not necessarily true. If you look at some sites like tvfool that show the signal strength before the switch and after the switch you can see that the strength may or may not change after the switchover. In my area there is no change after the switchover so if someone can't get a channel today they won't be able to do it after the switchover.

    135. Re:Just do it! by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      anyone under the age of, say, 40, already gets most of their TV from the internet

      And you have the nerve to call other people clueless idiots?

    136. Re:Just do it! by flitty · · Score: 1

      one problem right now is many DTV signals are not being transmitted at their final full power because they are being sent from temporary transmitters and in many cases on different frequencies

      Oh, well, since they are no longer switching on Feb. 17, they totally should switch the analog to the low power transmitters and the digital to the permanent towers on the 17th. Kind of a step down to give people a good warning.

      --
      Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
    137. Re:Just do it! by Ngarrang · · Score: 1

      By forcing people to switch now, it will force people to start purchasing.

      You are aware that the American people have known about this switch for nearly two years now, right? I got my coupons and bought two boxes. Voila. Done. Back in January of 2008. And I have satellite TV! I was helping out family with multiple TVs.

      Slackers deserve to be left behind.

      --
      Bearded Dragon
    138. Re:Just do it! by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine lived in almost the exact same situation (albeit in Boston and not in NYC) and where he previously had ghosted images in analog he had no reception at all on digital.

      As you seem to imply, I think it is quite complicated. In my case, I always had better UHF than VHF reception - and that probably explains it since all (or at least most) of the HD channels are on UHF. If your friend was having some success with VHF before, then he indeed might have the opposite situation from me.

      My TV is pretty good - a Sony from this decade with all the bells and whistles. My box is one that came from Radio Shack, so it probably sucks :) A DigitalStream DTX9900.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    139. Re:Just do it! by n6mod · · Score: 1

      There is a power savings, but you're looking a the wrong number.

      It's that 1.5GW that will go away, as stations turn off their temporary DTV facilities and begin broadcasting DTV on their main transmitter/antenna sets.

      At least I don't see any mention of the 'nightlight' program in TFA, which was brain-damaged. If you have to keep the analog station up broadcasting the 'nightlight', you can't use that channel for DTV.

      --
      You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
    140. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm just a few miles from DC's transmitters, and the digital channels are unusable. If analog gets turned off that's the end of over-the-air TV unless I make an investment in something, maybe running cables through my attic and drilling holes in the ceiling.

    141. Re:Just do it! by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      anyone under the age of, say, 40, already gets most of their TV from the internet, where it's on demand and there's far fewer commercials.

      You don't actually believe any of what you just wrote, do you?

      Geeks like you and me might be comfortable getting our television programming from RSS feeds that monitor BitTorrent index sites for content that was broadcast an hour ago and transcoded on the fly to Xvid by the 21st-century incarnation of what used to be called a "warez courier", then streaming the file from the fileserver in the utility closet to the HTPC in the living room via wireless, but most people aren't.

      Most people just want to plug a wire into the back of their TV and have a clicky box to change channels and adjust the volume with.

      This is starting to change -- the growth of PVRs over the last decade have made many of us accustomed to expecting content to be available on demand rather than on a schedule, and more and more networks seem to be getting hip to the idea that putting programming on a website is a legitimate delivery channel -- but we're still a long way from the point of "we get most of our TV from the internet".

    142. Re:Just do it! by cashman73 · · Score: 1

      I wasn't referring to Bittorrent. Ever hear of Hulu? Youtube? MTVmusic.com? Or just about any of the websites of the major television networks? I suppose I should get off your lawn, now.

    143. Re:Just do it! by rnelsonee · · Score: 1

      To avoid further confusion, you should probably explain the frequency assignments. For example, I watch WBAL on DT-11. I also can watch WBAL on analog channel 11. So some people assume it's being simulcast on the same (or related) frequencies. Rather, it's just that DT-11 at this time is given the frequency range associated with analog 59 in the Baltimore market.

    144. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ERP = Effective Radiated Power
      The ERP includes not just the power sent to the antenna but also will include the effects of antenna gain and efficiency (typically very high). For TV and radio stations, the measurement is made along the horizon. And unsurprisingly the antennas are designed to radiate power in the direction of the horizon. Why? Because people generally live on the ground rather than in space. Thus the best place to transmit power is at the ground (actually just above the ground) rather than into space.
      As an example, the radio station that I worked at in college (WREK) had an ERP of 40kW but we sent "only" 6.5kW up to the antenna to achieve that ERP. The factor of 6-ish difference was the antenna gain.
      So the stated savings of 2.1GW is likely overstated by quite a bit. I would suspect that even when we include the transmitter inefficiency, we'd find the total power savings to be 1GW - not enough for time travel in a DeLorean, but still some substantial savings.

    145. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By having a four month extension, this will be helpful while the economy rebounds

      It's not even a matter of waiting; giving people more freedom to choose how they will spend their money, helps the economy in itself.

      By forcing people to switch now, it will force people to start purchasing. Having a healthy economy starts with flow and exchange of money from person to person.

      No, a healthy economy starts with people producing things that other people value. Forcing people to purchase something they don't really want, can only be harmful..

      ..though that harm may be offset by the gains of more efficient spectrum use. (Indeed, I believe it is, since the harm is so slight (converter boxes are very cheap even without coupons).)

      We also have to remember that only broadcasters are being "forced" to do anything. Viewers aren't being forced. If they only have an analog TV and then analog broadcasts stop, the consequences are: no TV. Boo hoo. The government routinely does way worse stuff than this and nobody bats an eye.

    146. Re:Just do it! by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Try to avoid weasel words when describing your arguments.

      by all accounts the digital transmissions have worse reception and worse issues with multipath

      Not "by all accounts." If you read Slashdot discussions over the past year, there is a great range of accounts.

      For example, how about mine: I have several friends who live around the Baltimore County area, and all of them have found that digital TV reception exceeds analog TV reception remarkably. One of them canceled their digital cable. The other went down to analog cable to save money since they now get their digital for free over the air.

    147. Re:Just do it! by Firethorn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hmm... Have you checked the power they're transmitting at? I've read that many of the stations are transmitting at lower power until they shut off the analog stations.

      Other solutions, if possible(you might be in an apartment), might be to put an antenna on the roof or in the attic. Even with a longer cable run, a larger antenna will beat rabbit ears all to heck. The extra height doesn't hurt either.

      Then again, I download fairly frequently as well - I get 5 stations, including the religious channel on my ignore list and PBS.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    148. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its da kine, bra.

    149. Re:Just do it! by d0rp · · Score: 1

      I live in Phoenix too, and I have no problems (aside from FOX cutting out for a second occasionally). As far as I can tell, all of the stations seem to broadcast from the same location ("South Mountain"), so its fairly easy to point your antenna there. Of course, your reception is going to be based on what type of antenna you have, and how far away you are from the transmitters.

      This website is incredibly helpful for determining what you'll need for getting the best reception:
      http://www.antennaweb.com/

      I live in an apartment, so an outdoor roof antenna is out of the question, but I have an indoor Terk HDTVa antenna and it works beautifully.

      Another thing you'll want to keep in mind is that if you're close to the transmitters, using an amplified antenna (or the amplified portion, you can often turn it off) can actually make your reception worse because you're essentially amplifying the noise.

    150. Re:Just do it! by DorkRawk · · Score: 1

      Do you honestly believe that most people under 40 get most of their TV online? I think you need to take a step back and reacquaint yourself with the general population again.

    151. Re:Just do it! by $lingBlade · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hate to break it to you there bud but replacing tubes in RF transmitters is far from a job that takes an "hour or two".

      I work for a TV station here in Los Angeles and I assure you there's more to swapping tubes than just popping them in and turning the transmitter back on.

      First just installing the tube is no easy task, these things are designed with specially tuned cavities that usually require two people lifting/twisting heavy metal parts in and out of the cabinet. These parts cannot be banged around or damaged in any way. Once the old tube is out, you still have to go through the process of putting all that heavy shit back together.

      Once you're done with all that (oh look 4 hours has gone by), now you're ready to sweep and tune the tube. Bust out your handy dandy rectum spanalyzer (oh sorry, Spectrum Analyzer for you laymen). So even though you took pain staking care to mark where and how your cavity was put together and where all the tuning rods are, you'll still spend another few hours tuning the god damned thing.

      So to make short story long, no, it's not a matter of a few hours. It's more than likely closer to 8 to 12 hours, and a LOT longer if anything else is bad. Have you seen what even a 10kw tube arcing through it's cavity looks like? It's NOT pretty.

    152. Re:Just do it! by dae3dae3 · · Score: 1

      There is no way that most people under 40 get most of their TV from the internet. Yeah, I really want to sit in front of a desk watching a show on my computer monitor on computer speakers when I have a comfortable sofa, 50" plasma, and a surround sound system sitting in the other room.

    153. Re:Just do it! by tobiasly · · Score: 1

      It is worthwhile. For this one reason. Gigawatts.

      ...Over the 115 day extension that's 12.3 Terawatt-hours.

      Holy shit. If my math is right, I could travel back in time, if I can get a set of rabbit ears to reach 88MPH...

      No, he said gigawatts. You're thinking of jigawatts.

    154. Re:Just do it! by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Savings before you factor in transmitter efficiencies: 2.1 GW.

      Holy shit! That's 1.74 trips to 1955!

    155. Re:Just do it! by ouija147 · · Score: 1

      This website is incredibly helpful for determining what you'll need for getting the best reception:
      http://www.antennaweb.com/

      Try TV Fool http://www.tvfool.com/

      Better by far than most other sites...ymmv

    156. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On yet another hand, people have had ample time to prepare, so it's their own fault if they're not ready.

      Come on. Around these parts we call that the gripping hand.

      That's two points off your geek card.

    157. Re:Just do it! by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      I think the TV stations should just flip the switch anyway. Are they in any way prohibited from doing this now?

    158. Re:Just do it! by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Mmm... doughnuts.

    159. Re:Just do it! by TheSync · · Score: 1

      When they finally do it, instead of shutting off all analog signal they need to make every station in the country broadcast a repeating message for a week explaining what happened and giving instructions plus a phone # to call for more details. That's about the only way to limit the number of angry phone calls that everyone from the electric companies to the stores that sold the remote controls will get.

      There is supposed to be a 30-day analog "night light", along these lines at least according to the Feb. 17 turn-off plan. Not sure what the deal is if they push the cut-off to June.

    160. Re:Just do it! by TheSync · · Score: 1

      By converting the wasteful analog transmissions to more efficient digital, they reclaimed a resource

      I'm really not sure about this. Yes you get HDTV capability in the 6 MHz channels in DTV rather than ananlog NTSC SD, but in terms of gathering the channels together into the "in-core" channels of 51 and below, you probably could have done this even without going digital by putting tighter transmitter emission masks on analog transmitters (the DTV emission mask is -44dB adjacent channel interference)

      I'll add the caveat that I expect we will be surprised by some adjacent & next adjacent channel interference and intermodulation interference in DTV especially once all DTV powers are maxed out and final DTV channel changes occur, especially for distant stations. It may turn out we are not able to truly push together all these channels without enlarging areas of non-reception due to interference.

    161. Re:Just do it! by TheSync · · Score: 1

      The UK found an increased energy cost for consumers (because they'd need a set-top box), and a much reduced energy cost for transmitters.

      The UK uses DVB-T (COFDM) rather than ATSC (8VSB) for DTV, although truth be told 8VSB should be cheaper than COFDM because 8VSB has a much lower peak-to-average power ratio. 8VSB was supposed to be a computationally less demanding demodulation than COFDM, but once people realized how multipath killed 8VSB they now have serious equalizers on the front so the demodulation is much tougher now. The demod is probably small potatos compared with the MPEG-2 decode, especially for HD.

    162. Re:Just do it! by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Come on. Around these parts we call that the gripping hand.

      Sorry, too much TV, not enough books.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    163. Re:Just do it! by Trogre · · Score: 1

      You really should have tried to work 1.21 somewhere in there...

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    164. Re:Just do it! by Big+Boss · · Score: 1

      Not every market is doing what yours is. Here, all the stations are staying on the new UHF frequencies. So they could indeed broadcast the message to the idiots that haven't been paying attention.

      Even in markets like yours, they could just replace the analog broadcast with the information message without changing anything else. Then make the switch later. At least then the warning gets out loud and FAWKING clear.

      NO TV FOR YOU, BUY THE DAMN CONVERTER BOX WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU TO GET FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS!!!! WE EVEN GAVE YOU COUPONS TO GET FREE ONES YOU LAZY FAWKERS!

    165. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Book burner! Burn him!

    166. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Analog stations have already been running crawls and short, full screen messages on their analog signal that says "If you can read this, you won't have TV past Feb 17th unless you upgrade". Of course, now that several dates for the switch have come and gone, they probably won't believe it the next time they see the messages.

    167. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand however. By forcing people to switch now, it will force people to start purchasing. Having a healthy economy starts with flow and exchange of money from person to person.

      And, of course, then those people will go broke, having used the last of their layoff check to buy the new equipment. What a wonderful world we live in!

    168. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe s/he is saying that laws are mutable, and if properly written it could have been a little more practical. This is all somewhat water-under-the-bridge of course, but the posters proposal is certainly reasonable conjecture. You are simply not listening.

    169. Re:Just do it! by netringer · · Score: 1

      It really doesn't matter when they do it -- February, June, two years ago, two years from now. Either way, they'll still have 2 million clueless idiots cussing out at their TVs wondering what happened to their TV signal. And all of those 2 million will be technologically clueless senior citizens -- anyone under the age of, say, 40, already gets most of their TV from the internet, where it's on demand and there's far fewer commercials.

      There will be 4 million who have portable TVs that are in no way likely to work well with digital converter boxes. I keep thinking about people working in kiosks, stores, trucks, RVs, and newsstands...and yeah, a lot of poor and elderly people with 13" TVs.

      --
      Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
    170. Re:Just do it! by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

      You clearly either did not read or have forgotten my original suggestion. There's a huge, huge difference between being able to watch your shows and ignore the commercials (which most people do anyhow) and being completely unable to watch anything but a message. Also, the point of my suggestion was not to help the consumer, it was to help the innocent people who will get angry phone calls when people's TVs stop working. Ranting about how stupid the viewers are won't keep them from continuing to be stupid and blaming the electric company, the store the sold them the remote, the company that made the DVD player they bought last week, etc etc etc.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    171. Re:Just do it! by Dahan · · Score: 1

      Okay please explain to me, using WBAL-11 as example, how will analog continue? On 2/18 WBAL will begin broadcasting digital television on channel 11.

      Incorrect. The plan was for WBAL to begin broadcasting DTV on channel 11 on 2/18. However, that plan has changed. The new plan is for them to begin broadcasting DTV on channel 11 on 6/18. What is being suggested is that a better plan would be for them to continue broadcasting DTV on channel 59, but to begin broadcasting a "buy a converter box now!" message on NTSC channel 11 on 2/18. Then begin broadcasting DTV on channel 11 on some later date (3/18 or whatever).

      This really isn't hard to understand—you should consider that if you're having to repeat things so many times, it could be that the problem is that you're not understanding what people are saying, not that they're not understanding you.

    172. Re:Just do it! by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      It varies entirely by station.

      I have some local stations broadcasting at full power on antennas and frequencies they intend to stay on. Others not.

      Here's one (local channel 3) broadcasting currently digitally on 2, which, as soon as they get new equipment installed, are planning on moving to a UHF frequency for better reception by folks...

      http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=104676

    173. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $15 a month, and I share it. I suppose I could cancel my internet and phone (it's bundled, and low-cost for low income people) and get a box, but I need a phone line.
        I don't have a cellphone. I can't afford one. Assholes like you whose money problems came from irresponsibility piss me off when you assume everyone else with money problems are just irresponsible too. You know how much spare cash I had to spend on myself in the past month? $12. And that was a bit overboard for me.
        Every last dime beyond that went to bills and groceries. And not even expensive groceries! I'm happy when I can manage to make a dinner for four cost $2.50, and do it every chance I get. It means I can stave off the threatening letters from the utilities a little easier next month.

        And ten years? WTF? I never laid eyes on a DTV converter box until last year. Maybe they're falling out the fucking sky where you live, but not here.
        In short, you're a douche. Please drop dead at the first opportunity.

    174. Re:Just do it! by sew3521 · · Score: 1

      But my converter box draws current even when not in use!

      so does your TV

    175. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>The new channels can carry more information (six virtual channels) or more quality

      An exaggeration. I have one station that carries 4 standard def channels, and they look poor. Worse than analog. Another station offers 1 HD channel, 1 weather, and 1 sports, and they all look bad. ----- So in practical terms, in order to maintain DVD or better quality, a station is limited to 3 standard def channels, or 1 HD + 1 SD channel.

      Nowhere near 6 you claimed. But then that is typical of the FCC. This whole digital transition has been filled with lies, distortions, and half-truths.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    176. Re:Just do it! by Darby · · Score: 1

      DTV looks gorgeous on my TV. But it drives me up the wall that my PBS station doesn't come in, because it got shafted over to the tail end of the spectrum, and power in the tens of kilowatts, rather than hundreds of kilowatts. I will finally get PBS back when the damned cutover FINALLY takes effect!

      Funny, PBS is about the only station I can rely on picking up. ABC and NBC are hit or miss. The really annoying thing is when one of those isn't there, none of their stations are there. Either I can pick up HD and 3 other transmissions from them or I get nothing. This is right in the middle of Chicago too, so all of the transmitters are under 3 miles away.

      Hope they fix it by Sunday. It's my turn to host the superbowl party and I'm not paying Comcast for HD ;-)

    177. Re:Just do it! by pete-classic · · Score: 1

      ATSC allows six programs in a 6MHz channel. That's not a lie, it's a specification.

      There isn't a mode of operation that exactly compares to DVD. And comparing ATSC to DVD instead of NTSC seems decidedly unfair to me. Having said that, a broadcaster could choose to run TWO 480p30 (480x704 @ 29.97) MPEG-2 streams at 9.69MB/s which would be virtually indistinguishable from a DVD running 480x720 @ 29.97 at the maximum bitrate of 9.8MB/s. (As a practical matter only an insignificant portion, if any, DVDs run at the full maximum bitrate.)

      This could be substantially better looking in practice than any realistic NTSC scenario. So I really understated my case: ATSC allows us run twice as much video AND have higher quality.

      To speak to your specific example, four programs would have 4.8MB/s available to them. This compares very favorably to typical cable configurations (and even more favorably to typical satellite configurations).

      So the potential is all there. The reality, however, is that quality MPEG encoders are expensive. The ATSC transition has created a whole new tier of encoder hardware; local broadcasters. As that market matures (and the current generation of crap encoders are replaced by attrition) you'll see improved quality.

      Unless you think that 64-QAMs running 3.75MB/s video look bad. In which case, like me, you won't be satisfied by anything less than Blu-ray.

      -Peter

    178. Re:Just do it! by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      I'm on the fence about whether or not the change is worthwhile -- by all accounts the digital transmissions have worse reception and worse issues with multipath

      Not true at all! With my $16 rabbit-ears, the analog channels are snowy; but the digital channels are perfect.

    179. Re:Just do it! by kent_eh · · Score: 1

      That's what it took me in a 50KW AM transmitter (though it was a best-case scenario replacement).
      Lower power and lower freqs than you deal with. No tuned cavities down here in KHz land.
      AM transmitters are dead simple compared to the toys you TV guys play with.

      And, yes, I have seen what kind of a mess a 10KW tube can make during catastrophic failure. It's still probably easier, cheaper, and quicker to deal with than a similar failure in an equivalent power solid state transmitter.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    180. Re:Just do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes well, how many times do I have to say 2 + 2 == 4?

      That's the dumbest constant for true I've seen today.

      Also haughty talk for someone who can't quote properly.

    181. Re:Just do it! by jjthegreat · · Score: 1

      HERE HERE! I'm on the dish network, don't get my signals over the air and get bombarded with those retarded commercials every other minute! It does not make sense to me, I wish it would get done already.

  3. Bad Move by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This a bad move by an equally mismanaged program. They say that there was not enough funding for the demand for coupons, but then the number of coupons exceeds the estimate of TVs receiving through broadcast signals. Most of those boxes are now for sale on eBay. And this does not even touch on the lobbying from the cable industry and other vested $$$ interests. Bad move.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Bad Move by Firethorn · · Score: 2

      Hmmm... Seems like a bad strategy to me. You might be able to sell some right now while no more coupons are being issued; but as long as the coupons are available I'd be hesitant to try to sell them on Ebay.

      I'd put them up on switching day, if not a bit later. After the coupon program has expired.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    2. Re:Bad Move by rubycodez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      no, most of the 18 million boxes sold did *not* wind up on eBay. what an incredibly stupid assertion.

    3. Re:Bad Move by arminw · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      ...They say that there was not enough funding....

      That's easy to fix. Just give the bailout money now going to rich bankers, stock gamblers (analysts & brokers), mega corporation's overpaid senior executives and other rich moneybags to the grandma's on the converter coupon waiting list. There is enough money going to these leeches to buy a new HD TV set for all those poor grandmas.

      --
      All theory is gray
    4. Re:Bad Move by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0

      no, most of the 18 million boxes sold did *not* wind up on eBay. what an incredibly stupid assertion.

      The fact of the matter is that many more coupons than actual non-digital TV broadcast receivers were issued. Where do you supposed those boxes will end up? And, right now there are over 600 for sale at eBay. After the "switch-over", all those people hording boxes they don't need will want to get rid of them. Think about it.

      http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkwZdigitalQ20converterQ20boxQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    5. Re:Bad Move by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I sold a Zenith for $70 on amazon, and a DTVpal for the same price. And that was *before* the coupons had run-out. I guess since most households are limited to just 2 coupons, these extra units are being sold for the extra sets, VCRs, or DVRs.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:Bad Move by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      45 million coupons issued, 18 million of them used for rebate. 24.5 million converter boxes sold. 600 being sold on eBay at the moment. what's the problem again? The hoarders, if any, will have to sell them dirt cheap at a loss.

    7. Re:Bad Move by bipbop · · Score: 1

      Maybe they think 600 is "most" of 18 million? ;-)

    8. Re:Bad Move by ral8158 · · Score: 1

      The auctioning of the bandwidth pays for all of this twice over.

    9. Re:Bad Move by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I'm not even sure why the government provided the coupon for converter boxes. Yes, the government is doing something that might potentially make your TV useless, but it's TV. It's TV. You might not be able to watch American Idol or something.

      Yeah, I know, there's the news. Is the news that useful anymore? Maybe for weather and traffic reports, but not really for news. But anyway for purely informational purposes, there's still radio.

      I guess I'd just question whether it's the best use of funds. I don't consider broadcast TV the sort of inalienable right that would require the federal government to buy your equipment for you, and if anything I think the government should be trying to discourage TV watching for physical/mental health reasons. At the very least, I'm not convinced the money wouldn't have been better spent on infrastructure or college scholarships or something.

    10. Re:Bad Move by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 0, Troll

      I know I requested two of the coupons a few weeks ago and had no problem with availability. I got them on Saturday. I kind of feel bad since I haven't used rabbit ears to watch TV in over 25 years (too far away to pick up anything but a few channels in HD unless I put a huge antenna on the roof) but I figured it's silly to turn down free stuff.

    11. Re:Bad Move by sribe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, I went online and requested my coupons very early in the process, well over a year ago. (What the heck, the gov't wants to use my tax dollars to hand out free converter boxes, I'll take one!) I never received any coupons. I wonder how many of these expired coupons were never actually sent out because some contractor did not actually ever put them in the mail.

    12. Re:Bad Move by timeOday · · Score: 2, Interesting

      but then the number of coupons exceeds the estimate of TVs receiving through broadcast signals.

      I can't speak for others, but before the switch I had zero devices on broadcast, but now switched my TV and PVR from Comcast to broadcast since the digital picture is so much better. Analog broadcast TV looked lousy, now it's better than cable.

      Anyways, I'm curious how the system is being scammed? Are retailers filing for hundreds of cards using others' addresses (identity theft) and then redeeming them for boxes they didn't actually sell? If it's just people who don't need converters cashing their 2 coupons and selling the converters on ebay, that doesn't really bother me. The spectrum is a public resource, so everybody should share in the benefit of using it more efficiently.

    13. Re:Bad Move by lophophore · · Score: 1

      Wow. I looked. you are right, there are hundreds of those converter boxes on ebay. I wonder how many of those were bought with taxpayer-funded coupons? I would bet that most were.

      --
      there are 3 kinds of people:
      * those who can count
      * those who can't
    14. Re:Bad Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I requested coupons, because the digital over-the-air broadcasts are better than what I get from cable. Of course I didn't get any coupons.

    15. Re:Bad Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I requested coupons, because the digital over-the-air broadcasts are better than what I get from cable. Of course I didn't get any coupons.

      I've got 20, I'll sell you one for $10.

    16. Re:Bad Move by doom · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I'm not even sure why the government provided the coupon for converter boxes. Yes, the government is doing something that might potentially make your TV useless, but it's TV. It's TV. You might not be able to watch American Idol or something.

      You're highlighting a different problem here. TV is supposed to be better than this. The broadcasters are legally required to serve "the public interest" or they should have their licenses yanked.

    17. Re:Bad Move by nine-times · · Score: 1

      It may be a different problem, but it's a related problem. TV isn't really doing much to "server the public interest", and therefore it doesn't make sense for the government to subsidize equipment for the purpose of keeping broadcasters' ad revenue up.

  4. I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by Firethorn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of my stations switched recently anyways; other than telling my TV to check for a digital station on that channel, no issues. Picture improved, though it's pretty obvious that they're merely feeding it an analog signal through a converter for now.

    While I'd push more funding in for the coupons; I have the feeling that many/most on that list don't actually need a box. Talking with various people, there's a lot getting them 'just in case' even though they get cable/dish. For that matter, I bought one for my CRT TV about a month before a great deal had me buying a new LCD TV.

    The final point I'd have is that, at this point, delaying the switch won't get you that many more digital capable homes - many are procrastinating, and will continue to do so until they can't get broadcast TV.

    Meanwhile I'd like to see those applications for the freed up bandwidth to actually happen. Of course, I saw on conspiracy theory that those wanting a delay have or are looking to bring out competing products.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
    1. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>I saw on conspiracy theory that those wanting a delay have or are looking to bring out competing products.

      Please elaborate. How do they gain from a four-month delay?

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by hellwig · · Score: 1

      There is no funding problem. Too many people who don't need them are getting them, even if their brandnew HDTVs come with their own tuners (my fiancee's parents are guilty). Too many of the people who actually are getting the coupons AREN'T using them. That's right, they're just letting them expire. I heard somewhere its something like 60% of the coupons. As soon as they expire, there will be plenty of coupons for those on the waiting list. Problem is, they can only give out so much dollar-amount at a time. Now, if ALL the coupons had been used, then yes, allocate more money. We don't need more money just because people aren't using the coupons they're getting.

      --
      Eggs
      Milk
      Bread
      Cat Litter
      Soda
      ...
    3. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by skiingyac · · Score: 2, Interesting

      See http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/01/4g-war-conflict-of-interests-loom-behind-possible-dtv-delay.ars

      Basically, Verizon wants to deploy their 4G cellular network using the spectrum that will be freed up, and Clearwire wants that to take as long as possible so they can get more users to sign up for WiMAX first (which is already somewhat deployed).

      In reality, yeah a 4 month delay probably won't have much impact on the amount of customers either service gets since the demand isn't very high right now. I think pricing and service quality will make more of a difference. If it gets pushed back further, that could change.

      Arguably, the people who sell hardware & related things to Verizon for 4G networks (some of which are in or affiliated with Obama's administration) have some to gain/lose depending on the timing. Probably not much because 4G will be deployed either way, but thats the argument.

    4. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Well, one four month delay today, a multiple year one before that, another after the four months are done...

      They might be hoping to get significant market share in the next few months. Reach some sort of tipping point ala game systems.

      I wouldn't count on it though; that's why I called it a conspiracy theory.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    5. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Too many people who don't need them are getting them,

      So it IS a funding problem. Congress should have specified that the coupons are only for people without cable or dish service.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      It's a conspiracy theory; it doesn't have to make any sense.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    7. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Hmm... I currently use Clearwire as my ISP. (I'm happy enough with them, not fast, but completely reliable.) Does anybody know if the service/speed is going to change after the digital transition? Might I look forward to more bandwidth?

    8. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by Toonol · · Score: 1

      They did. Those people are lying on their coupon applications.

      I don't really blame them, though. Because not everybody has 100% infallible cable/satellite in every room of their house, under a service plan that they will never want to stop, and can assume they will never move anywhere without cable.

    9. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Congress should have specified that the coupons are only for people without cable or dish service.

      Why? It's more fair if everybody benefits. RF spectrum is a shared natural resource, so everybody should share in the gains from using it more efficiently. (Besides, most of the people getting coupons even though they don't converters probably won't bother to redeem them when they find out it's still $15 or so with the coupon).

    10. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by limaxray · · Score: 1

      Actually the conspiracy (aka government business as usual) is that an executive VP at Clearwire named Gerry Salemme just so happens to be Obama's unofficial advisor on the DTV transition. Furthermore, he has personally thrown huge amounts of money at the Obama campaign, arguably more than allowed by campaign finance laws. Seeing as Clearwire and Sprint (Verizon and AT&T's competitor) are partners in the WiMAX roll out, it would help Sprint get a head start over the competition who are waiting on the freed up spectrum. The argument on AT&T and Verizon's side is they are worried that a 4 month delay will turn into an 8 month delay which will turn into a 12 month delay - this would definitely hurt their business while helping their competitor.

    11. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by skiingyac · · Score: 1

      Not because of this at least, the telcos bought almost all of this spectrum.

    12. Re:I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      I'd argue that they aren't lying, unless they don't watch OTA broadcasts. My grandfather has dish, but still watches local channels. The form asks whether you have those services - but doesn't discriminate you if you answer yes.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
  5. Goddamnit by Mutio · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Seriously senate, wev all seen the commercials and tv specials on our local news about this switch. And all of us in the tech know have been ready for months. Just do the switch and force those who were too lazy, to finally get their converter boxes.

  6. People want CH 2 HD in Chicago to move to better by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    People want CH 2 HD in Chicago to move to better signal will this slow that down?

  7. Will this change anything? by fo0bar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not talking about the "will delaying the transition allow everybody who has been ignoring the constant barrage of ads to ignore them some more" debate. February 17 is (soon to be "was") a date all broadcasters must stop BY. It doesn't mean you have (had) to stop ON that date. A local broadcaster actually just turned off their analog tower yesterday.

    I'm wondering if many broadcasters will just choose to switch over on the 17th anyway, as the ball is already rolling, so to speak. It'd probably cost them a decent amount of money and wasted resources not to go ahead with the original plan.

    (I could be wrong; there could be wording in the bill forcing broadcasters to wait off.)

    1. Re:Will this change anything? by kherr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hope stations switch anyway. The February 17 deadline is three weeks away. Stations have already scheduled their work crews and support staff, have made plans for the hardware cutover, etc. Now they're expected to suddenly halt everything, add an additional four months of dual-service costs and redo all of their plans?

      Seems to me this move does nothing to help people prepare for the switch, but will succeed in making the stations unprepared. So it'll be a bigger mess than sticking to the original date.

    2. Re:Will this change anything? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think we'll see a lot of stations cease analog broadcasting next month. Especially PBS stations. I know that two PBS stations in Michigan have already gone all digital. WFMU in Flint and WKAR in Lansing. Also, WTVS in Detroit is running spots informing people that their analog transmitter may not make it to Feb 17th, as it seems to be on its last leg.

      So yeah, I think a lot of stations will go all digital. Mostly due to money. It's not cheap to keep two transmitters on the air! Especially for non-commercial stations.

      I hope a ton of stations just drop off analog, then they'll make the senate look like the fools they are!

    3. Re:Will this change anything? by NuttyBee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have been working on the digital transition for a certain national TV provider for 4 years. We are DONE and ready to go all digital. In 1996, the drop dead date was set as 2006. It was extended to 2009. 13 years.

      How much longer do we really need?

      Those who aren't ready will get ready really quick. I'm happy to get them a kick in the pants.

  8. Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Hadlock · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seriously, if you're watching TV and your color TV suddenly is B&W on every channel, and so is your buddy's, even the clueless idiot is going to drag his ass to the TV asile of walmart and start asking questions. You still get TV, and HDTV is avalible, but SDTV is black and white which will prompt people to go to the store and at least consider a HD tuner.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
    1. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by MBCook · · Score: 2, Informative

      Unfortunately the only difference between a B&W single and a color signal (in the analog world) is the color burst. The signal will take just as much power (basically) to broadcast.

      The biggest problem for most stations at this point is probably the extra power it would use to keep the analog transmitters going an extra 90 days. B&W wouldn't do any good there, it would just annoy people and cause more confusion than having no signal (or the "nightlight" signal that would have continued).

      I hope that if this passes, TV stations just ignore it and switch on the 17th anyway. It's a stupid idea that won't do any good but waste money and time. Fund the coupons better, and keep the date the same.

      Also, people have to go buy a digital tuner. An HD tuner costs extra, and would be a waste of money unless you had an HD monitor (which you probably don't, because if you bought one years ago you can probably afford the $150 to buy the box).

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    2. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      No, the point of broadcasting in B&W isn't to reduce broadcast power (that's just dumb at this point), it is, like you said, to annoy and confuse people so they start asking questions. Because really anyone at this point who doesnt have an HDTV converter box either isn't aware of doesn't think it applies to them. These are the same people that are going to get angry and call the FCC the day analog gets shut off. Rather than have them super angry and without TV, they have a serious degradation of quality (in this case, color), they get upset enough that they decide to seek out information on their own, and so that they're ready when (B&W) analog gets shut off in three months.
       
      Most people don't upgrade their fuse box in an old home until they start tripping breakers, at least this way joe the plumber knows he's going to start tripping the breaker when he turns on the 52" widescreen TV and his home theater system at the same time before he gets home from best buy. So to speak.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    3. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by faedle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Jesus Christ. Every single program has had a crawl on it for months now. Most commercial breaks include a message. There have been ads in the newspaper, on the radio, and in other media.

      If you don't know by now that you may need a converter box, you probably should be institutionalized. Seriously.

    4. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Or you watch TV so rarely it'll be at least 3 months before you notice the conversion...

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    5. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      they do broadcast in black and white.

      color was an 'add-on' (ha!) and a clever compatible one, at that. they added chroma so that you could still use your b/w tv when color became a new standard.

      so actually, they would just have to NOT add the chroma.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by kkrajewski · · Score: 1

      The (feature?) side effect of this would be that people would immediately assume their TV was broken and buy another one (which would then have a digital tuner??). Here's how to really annoy and confuse people: Add subtitles. If you've ever worked in a video store you know what I mean!

    7. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      You are going to be shocked, SHOCKED at how many people bitch and moan about this, thinking that it didn't apply to them. It's one thing to read a message and not understand it, and ignore it from then on thinking it doesn't apply to you; it's another thing entirely to break part of what they use (go B&W) so they see it does apply to them. Many people fore go medical treatment thinking it isn't as bad as it really is (lump in breast) and when they finally are talked into seeing a doctor it has metastasized into a terminal cancer.
       
      The other half probably should be institutionalized, but hey, right now Arkansas, Alabama and Mississippi are pulling most of their weight so they can stay where they are for now.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    8. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Well the first two or three would go out and buy new TVs. Then they'd get to talking and (hopefully) notice that ALL their tvs were black and white. Although hopefully you would think with an average of 3 tvs per household, they would notice that all their tvs went B&W at the same time.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    9. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't watched TV in months and I don't watch commercials when I do. And radio? It's the 21st century, LOL.

      If I weren't reading bitchy techie news sites like this one, I probably wouldn't have a clue if I tried to turn on the local news in the event of an emergency.

    10. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>It's a stupid idea that won't do any good but waste money and time.

      You just gave the short definition of "government". Which is why the U.S. Founders revolted and tried to create a new government that was minimalist, and therefore did minimal damage.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    11. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Steve001 · · Score: 1

      Hadlock wrote:

      Well the first two or three would go out and buy new TVs. Then they'd get to talking and (hopefully) notice that ALL their tvs were black and white. Although hopefully you would think with an average of 3 tvs per household, they would notice that all their tvs went B&W at the same time.

      Since we are so close to the original transition date, I doubt that any analog TVs are still available for sale. At this point there would be little reason to still sell them.

    12. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Read the summary. This wasn't done for clueless procrastinators, it was done for the 2.5 million people who know about the switchover, applied for their coupons, and are counting on the govt. to live up to its obligation to send them so they can make the switch.

    13. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      Ok, good point. Then they should just slowly ramp down the power of their stations, until on the last day they finally shut it down. People would figure it out. Or conversely they should change the programming to include less and less programming. Forcing them to show more and more test patterns with 1800 numbers explaining the transition. Get rid of the soaps, then see how many people switch.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    14. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      1) The gov't has ZERO obligation to send them a coupon (unless new legislation is passed).

      2) The program was always first come, first served. There were no provisions made after the fund was expended. They snoozed, they losed.

      3) I was still able to order and get a coupon card in early DECEMBER. (My first request got stolen. I ordered the second card after it expired.)

      4) The TV was flashing public service announcement commercials starting in the SUMMER. (Earlier for PBS stations). Those 2.5 million on the waiting list ARE procrastinating LOSERS.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    15. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're saying that people who don't watch ads should be institutionalized.

      Most slashdot readers use an adblock plugin. Should we be institutionalized? Similar things exist for TV, it's called a bathroom break, flipping the channel, hitting fast forward (vcr), etc.

    16. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by GravityStar · · Score: 1

      Some of those people who don't know, or don't fully understand, could just be illiterate. Some of those will be embarrassed to seek help, until the TV stops working.

    17. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought they should just cut back the broadcast day a little each week, and broadcast a sign, but I like your suggestion better.

      I have a friend who works at the FCC. He told me that they have been setting up a telephone system to handle the changeover. Everyone in the agency will be handling calls. They are expecting a lot of calls on this issue, not just due to people who haven't gotten coupons. A very big source of complaints will be people who used to get stations that will no longer get them, particularly people who live in outlying areas. There are two sources of this - broadcasters who use this opportunity to move antennas and broadcasters who cut their signal strength.

      As it has been noted, only 15% of people get their TV over-the-air. There was a time when it would pay to cover a larger area, but as the percentage of households decreases the return gathered from this decreases. There will be a big political uproar over this.

      I think a lot of people get cable and satellite because of the quality of TV reception. I live in a city, and have had terrible reception the whole time, lots of ghosts and interference. Digital TV has done wonders for my reception. After I got the converter box, I got a rooftop antenna (perhaps I should have done this years ago.) Now I get many additional stations as well. I am wondering to what degree, now that we are in tough economic times, people will drop cable and satellite?

    18. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by sharkey · · Score: 1

      You still get TV, and HDTV is avalible, but SDTV is black and white which will prompt people to go to the store and at least consider a HD tuner.

      I thought this was about the switch to digital broadcasts, not HDTV.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    19. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Damn, that's a pretty cool idea.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    20. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      You are clearly a moron and failed the reading comprehension portion of all your standardized tests. I'm sorry.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    21. Re:Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      People you describe are functionally illiterate (in the sense that they can't function without being coddled by society) and deserve a whole separate rant involving walmart and automatic transmissions.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
  9. How many by Darth_brooks · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So how many of those 2.5 million are scammers and huckesters who are bilking the elderly and inept as we muddle through this insane clusterfuck? This mess is enough to turn the most die hard quasi-socialist into a small government, free market libertarian in the span of about 7 seconds.

    Plus, now I've got to deal with four more months of commercials regarding this switch....ON MY CABLE FUCKING TV!!!! yeah, thanks comcast, thank you for reminding me every 29 seconds that the DTV switch is coming.

    I need to drink more.

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
    1. Re:How many by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC, in the 1990s, the occasional blurb about DTV said it was going to be in 2006. I somehow KNEW the transition would take longer.

      Says I, as I sit on my butt and watch it all happen, as I am a Comcast customer.

      FWIW, I'm a small-s socialist, and I think the federal government could use some downsizing. When middle-class homeowners feel the need to consult an income tax specialist, you know government is too big.

    2. Re:How many by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      ON MY CABLE FUCKING TV!!!! yeah, thanks comcast, thank you for reminding me every 29 seconds that the DTV switch is coming.

      I hate to defend crapcast of all outfits but I'm pretty sure those commercials are mandated by the FCC. Time Warner has been running them like crazy too.

      Worse than the commercials though are the misinformed (or lying) reps at Time Warner. Buddy of mine called up to get ghetto cable (just the networks) and they tried to tell him that it was no longer an option and he had to sign up for digital cable so it would work after the switch. Dunno if it was a misinformed rep or somebody trying to make a commission but my friend knows better and was quite pissed off about it.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re:How many by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I need to drink more.

      That or lay off the caffeine.

    4. Re:How many by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure just don

    5. Re:How many by WraithCube · · Score: 1

      I can understand the constant barrage of commercials on most channels, but there is no reason to have it as a commercial on the 'On Demand' menu-a function which requires digital cable to get to.

      I believe its more than just Time Warner too. Almost every company has been trying to push their digital cable packages before ever informing people that they just need a converter box. Usually with a deceptive line like "On Feb 17th (previously) your tv will stop working. If you want to ensure that your tv continues working buy our [generic expensive cable plan] where you'll also get these other [insert more expensive additional options: tivo, hbo, on demand]. Not saying that people won't want the package, but they wouldn't miss the opportunity for more subscribers even those who don't want all of it.

    6. Re:How many by dwye · · Score: 1

      Plus, now I've got to deal with four more months of commercials regarding this switch....ON MY CABLE FUCKING TV!!!! yeah, thanks comcast, thank you for reminding me every 29 seconds that the DTV switch is coming.

      Not every TV in a house is on cable, even if people add drops that they don't tell the company about. My mother watches (well, listens) to the news while gardening, in the late spring to mid-fall, on a small set that definitely isn't DTV-compatible (although it COULD get FM, if she wanted). So also for sets in garages, laundry rooms, etc., including our entire third story (actually, we tried it, but the runs all became antennas that ruined reception for the rest of the house).

      And since it is not limited to just Comcast, you should probably be thanking some FCC functionary who threw that into the regulations controlling the switch-over process.

  10. What stops them from switching anyway? by NiteMair · · Score: 1

    Perhaps I'm ignorant, but won't ~90% of broadcasters just stop broadcasting their analog signal anyway?

    I mean, wasn't the whole mandate originally designed for FORCE broadcasters to change their equipment, and now that the date was looming, and plans had been solidified, why wouldn't most of them just turn off their analog anyway?

    If in fact that happens, that will demonstrate that this move was not designed to help consumers at all...

    1. Re:What stops them from switching anyway? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they will add a clause requiring broadcasters to leave the analog on until June.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:What stops them from switching anyway? by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they will add a clause requiring broadcasters to leave the analog on until June.

      If they were to do this, then I forsee one of two things happening:

      1. A lot of "technical difficulties" occurring that require the analog transmitter to be down for maintenance. A lot.
      2. Stations bringing up their analog transmitter for exactly one hour per day at most.
      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    3. Re:What stops them from switching anyway? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Not that I'm gonna do it, because I'm lazy, but this bill's already been passed by the Senate. It's past the point of "perhaps they will add a clause". If you want to know if they DID add a clause just lookup the bill's text and read it ;).

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  11. This is good. by Alien+Being · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The cable companies have been using the February switchover as subterfuge for their own plans.

    For about a year, Comcast have been advertising that their customers can "keep on watching their favorite shows" after the switch with no changes needed. Very recently, the wording of their ads changed. Now all they say is that if you use their set-top-box, then you're covered.

    I decided to call them and ask for the real answer.

    Me: I see that you've changed the wording in your ads. Will my service change in February?

    Comcast: blah blah blah blah affected blah blah.

    Me: Would you please repeat that?

    Comcast: blah blah blah blah affected blah blah.

    Me: Wait. Will I be affected, or will I not be affected?

    Comcast: You will be affected.

    Me: How?

    Comcast: You will lose some channels.

    Me: Really! Which ones?

    Comcast: We don't know yet.

    Me: Well, how many channels will I lose?

    Comcast: Between 7 and 10.

    Me: I see. For a year you've been lying to us and you still won't tell us the truth. By the way, why does the Comcast have to change anything?

    Comcast: We don't. The timing is coincidental.

    Me: Fuck you!

    1. Re:This is good. by dr_dank · · Score: 1

      After a brief intermission, please join us for Act II on Slashdot Theatre.

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    2. Re:This is good. by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Comcast is trying like hell to eliminate the analog lineup. They can then force you to pay extra for EVERY TV by forcing a cable box rental. The upper management has been drooling over this for over 4 years and this in fact has been planned for a while now. Most places that have comcast will be FORCED over to the digital boxes by the end of 2010. At least those were the plans I saw in one of the last meetings I was in on back in 2005. They get a rate cut from the content providers by encrypting everything. Plus they get to fire 70% of the installer workforce as they no longer need to roll a truck for a disconnect. They simply shut off your boxes.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:This is good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the person at comcast lied to you. There is no reason any changes to broadcast TV will ever affect your cable. The cable company takes in the signal for broadcast channels and feeds it to you via a cable. Unless you have the worst cable company in the world (well, ok you have comcast so that might be a concern) they will handle the switchover on their end.

    4. Re:This is good. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Many of the cable companies are using the DTV switchover and resulting confusion to do some eliminating of analog cable. While there are practical reasons to do this (an analog cable chanel uses more bandwidth than a digital one), it's pretty much just a money-grab.

    5. Re:This is good. by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      Eventually, the FCC is going to start turning the screws on CableCard support to prevent the cable companies from forcing STBs on their customers. If even the Bush administration was able to resist the pleas of the cable lobby there is good reason to expect that Obama will continue this policy.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    6. Re:This is good. by SaDan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think this guy is lying. I just lost 60+ analog channels in the past week on Comcast cable, and apparently it was a planned shift to require a set-top box to view anything outside of what they rebroadcast from OTA stations.

      So, screw Comcast. My HDTV was working just peachy with their basic content, and the set-top box is a flaming pile of poo.

      Time to see what Dish Network has to offer.

    7. Re:This is good. by kybred · · Score: 1

      There is no reason any changes to broadcast TV will ever affect your cable.

      You're correct, the cable companies, not being in the broadcast TV business, aren't affected by the FCC ruling. They must abide by their local city franchise agreements. Unless those get amended, I don't think they can just drop 'basic cable'.

    8. Re:This is good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm I'm wondering if this will ever happen. I have an HDTV with a QAM tuner installed. It's not like they can shut me down, they still have to send someone to disconnect the cable. If everything gets encrypted, I would just switch back to using the air, the only reason I ever got basic cable was it was cheaper to get it with high speed internet than just high speed internet alone.

    9. Re:This is good. by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      I would love them to stop pushing analog channels. My PCHD-3000 keeps getting upset when changing between digital and analog, and it'd be nice to just have one (digital, because OTA free HD is required to be re-broadcast in the clear on cable, so if you have cable, you have the same HD service or better than what you can get OTA)

    10. Re:This is good. by rsmith-mac · · Score: 1

      I have never heard the boxes themselves called a profit center. Cable companies have to buy the boxes now, meanwhile it's going to take years to recover the costs of the boxes, never mind the incidentals like broken and stolen boxes. The boxes are a PITA I admit, but then again I could just get a new TV with a CableCARD slot, just like I could get a TV with an ATSC tuner.

      The rest of that however is true, but why on earth is that a bad thing? We bitch and moan that the DTV transition is being pushed back, then we bitch that the cable companies want to go digital for the same reasons. Every analog channel Comcast takes back is a pair of HD channels at full quality, or 38Mb of internet bandwidth, or nearly a dozen SD channels, etc. Should it come as any surprise that the cable guys want to do more productive things with their bandwidth too?

    11. Re:This is good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that clearQAM is going to be expanding as well. As TV's which pick up clearQAM become more popular you won't need a converter box if you want to get the bulk of what's currently on the analog feed. Right now on my LCD TV I can get all the local channels and a number of the channels that are in the analog range w/o a box. I expect that this will end up being a lot like the eventual inclusion of cable-ready tuners in Tube-TV's.

      We'll have to see, though. I know I'm not ever paying extra for yet another box.

    12. Re:This is good. by jejones · · Score: 1

      Same here. About a year ago, I got a letter from Mediacom touting their eventual move to an all-digital network.

      Translation: all those lulled into a false sense of security by those commercials saying that if you have cable, your NTSC TV will continue to work will find that they have no choice but to rent a digital cable box.

    13. Re:This is good. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      The cable companies have been using the February switchover as subterfuge for their own plans.

      People still use cable? Seriously, I went to satellite about 7 years ago and it's been a dream. I'm paying much less for more channels, including rental on the dual-tuner DVR. At this point I can't imagine ever going back to cable.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    14. Re:This is good. by acohen1 · · Score: 0

      Seems like a sound financial decision to me. If I was a comcast stockholder I would be all over them to do that. Too bad comcast is a bunch of sleazy liars who can't be bothered to tell you what service you will have the luxury to pay them for next month. Also their digital cable is the most overcompressed garbage I've ever seen.

    15. Re:This is good. by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      Comcast is trying like hell to eliminate the analog lineup. They can then force you to pay extra for EVERY TV by forcing a cable box rental.

      Based on the number of times I've had to return a set-top box because it Just Stopped Working, and the MSRP prices of the boxes, I have my doubts that Comcast is making much of a profit off that $5/month rental fee. I bet Scientific American are making out like bandits, though.

      More likely, Comcast is tired of maintaining redundant analog and digital delivery infrastructures. Continuing to support analog customers is (or soon will be) a money-losing proposition for them, and every dollar they spend on keeping that system up is a dollar they can't spend on upgrading the internet and digital TV systems.

    16. Re:This is good. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Maintaining? Most of the gear is from the 80's and is NOT maintained. it's just left there to operate. This stuff is not your typical consumer crap. Some of the 70's stuff still works perfectly. (and is still in use.)

      The cable Boxes are relatively cheap. They pay about $150-$350 per box NEW. Most boxes are 2-7 years old and have paid for themselves well over. The newest digital boxes that are tiny cost under $79.00 each when bought in their quantities. It is a profit center for them. Biggest profits are from laying off most of the workers.

      It's Scientific Atlanta.. BTW... Scientific american is a magazine and they make nothing off of cable boxes.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    17. Re:This is good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (digital, because OTA free HD is required to be re-broadcast in the clear on cable, so if you have cable, you have the same HD service or better than what you can get OTA)

      Umm ... just because they are required to broadcast it, does NOT mean you have the same HD service "or better".

      With TWC I've found they compress the heck out of the signal, and I usually get a much better picture from local OTA stations that the cable retransmissions (although the Cable retransmissions of HD are certainly better than the analog retransmissions).

    18. Re:This is good. by powerlord · · Score: 1

      People still pay for Satellite/Cable?

      Seriously, in the past 3 months we've eliminated both and switched to Over-The-Air broadcasts supplemented by digital downloads (your pick Amazon/Apple/Sony/Netflix/Hulu/etc.), and the occasional purchase of season DVDs.

      Its dropped out "TV" bill by 50% and we're still watching the shows we want, but with more freedom, better picture quality, and less commercials.

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
  12. Damn by djupedal · · Score: 1

    Wow...look how much money we can make off of this 'transition'!!! And the longer it takes to accomplish, the more we can make!! Lobby for a delay!! Now!! Screw the public!!!!!!

  13. just print more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do what the treasury does. Out of money? Print more. Out of coupons? Duh, print more.

  14. So important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is sooo important. We must be sure all Americans can watch sitcoms. What will they do with their time otherwise? And I have no problem paying for it. None at all, I love helping people so they can watch tv and be entertained. Our government is so responsible with our money.

  15. Forget the boxes, get a new set! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The coupons would be better spent toward a new set that can receive DTV without a converter.

  16. PBS by 787style · · Score: 4, Informative

    PBS claimed that delaying the conversion would cost them $22 million. Is that a check we have to write now lest we get sued?

    1. Re:PBS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PBS in my area (Michigan) quit broadcasting analog already. Not really a big deal.

    2. Re:PBS by afidel · · Score: 1

      Hmm, that's funny, my local affiliate hasn't really been broadcasting the digital (HD) stream at all yet. Well technically they have but it's been at like 10W or something. They did this because they don't have enough money for either two antenna's or the power for both. The thing that sucks is they are a couple miles from the antenna farm where most of the local commercial stations are which is where our cable provider logically put their rebroadcast equipment. With their pitiful power there isn't enough signal for the cable company to pick up so I get all of the locals in HD except PBS which has the content I'd be most interested in other than sports.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:PBS by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Elmo knows where you live!

    4. Re:PBS by mcscooter · · Score: 1

      I work for PBS. No check will be written. Our money comes from viewers, sponsorships and endowments. And yes, keeping the analog equipment running for several months will cost a lot of money.

    5. Re:PBS by arthurh3535 · · Score: 1

      A lot of stations can't afford to run both signals (they don't have the infrastructure, money, ect.)
       
      So this sounds like a lot Of FUD. They can already request an extension on the deadline (like the poor guys that are waiting for their new digital transmitter and paying to keep a road plowed up into the mountains near where I live.)
       
      I bet, all in all, that when this is over, that this was just designed to allow someone in particular to exploit the system.

      --
      No! It's a *SIG*. Keep the Special Interest Groups away! (Con joke!)
    6. Re:PBS by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      I believe it. PBS (Channel 13, analog) in my area is digital on some channel 60-70 something BS and it doesn't come through. I was going to wait until the cutoff date and just hope that the channel (moving back to physical 13) would be better by then.

      Fuck. Guess I'm spending $100 on an outdoor antenna, and a weekend on its installation. Where's my fucking coupon?

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    7. Re:PBS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny you mention PBS. The local PBS in Lincoln, NE has already transitioned to digital on their primary frequency.

    8. Re:PBS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well technically they have but it's been at like 10W or something. They did this because they don't have enough money for either two antenna's or the power for both.

      No, that's not why. The new digital channels are on the same frequency as the analog channels (a subset actually). We won't get full power digital until the turn off analog. Period. This is what pisses me off most about the delay. No one can see how good (or bad) digital is until after the transition date, which in now another f-ing 4 months later.

    9. Re:PBS by powerlord · · Score: 1

      Fuck. Guess I'm spending $100 on an outdoor antenna, and a weekend on its installation. Where's my fucking coupon?

      Alternatively, you could still wait four months and see how things are. Don't forget, besides moving channels, stations are also going to be boosting signal strength (in most cases).

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    10. Re:PBS by TheSync · · Score: 1

      I work for PBS. No check will be written. Our money comes from viewers, sponsorships and endowments.

      As someone who used to work for PBS and aided in the plan for the $120 million taxpayer-funded satellite upgrade, I think you may be missing the $50-$100 million per year that regularly comes from the CPB (from Federal tax dollars) or directly from Federal grants to PBS.

      Then you need to consider that CPB gets around $400 million from the Federal Government each year, and they turn around and grant $200 million of that directly to public television stations as Community Service Grants, who then turn around and pay $150-$200 million to PBS as member assessments .

  17. Or just drink more beer by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 0

    And B&W will look fine.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  18. Old buggers by tdwMighty · · Score: 3, Funny

    The old buggers in the Senate probably just figured out how to work a DVD player and now are too afraid of the change to digital TV.

    --
    read some interesting stuff at mightyinteresting.com
  19. Advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The media is scared shitless that millions of households won't have converter boxes installed by the Feb. date, which, coincidentally, is during one of the "sweeps weeks" for broadcasters. Millions of eyeballs not able to watch tv will mean several millions in lost advertising revenue in a time when tv is already showing declining viewership among the more coveted demographics. Broadcasters prefer putting off the deadline till the beginning of summer when most everything on tv are reruns and viewership is at its lowest.

    1. Re:Advertising dollars by British · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Darn, I was hoping it would be like that episode of The Simpsons when Itchy & Scratchy got re-tooled, and all these kids go outside to play. Some are painting fences, others do that "push the hoop with the stick" old-timey thing.

      Knowing it's 2009, kids will go "meh" and just go visit a website.

    2. Re:Advertising dollars by geekmux · · Score: 1

      The media is scared shitless that millions of households won't have converter boxes installed by the Feb. date, which, coincidentally, is during one of the "sweeps weeks" for broadcasters. Millions of eyeballs not able to watch tv will mean several millions in lost advertising revenue in a time when tv is already showing declining viewership among the more coveted demographics. Broadcasters prefer putting off the deadline till the beginning of summer when most everything on tv are reruns and viewership is at its lowest.

      And if it's been known for years that viewership is at its lowest in the summer, then why in the hell did ANYONE chose February as the cutover month years ago?!?

    3. Re:Advertising dollars by toddestan · · Score: 1

      And if it's been known for years that viewership is at its lowest in the summer, then why in the hell did ANYONE chose February as the cutover month years ago?!?

      Probably because if someone's TV stopped working in Febuary, they'd do something about it. If it went out in June, they might go outside instead.

    4. Re:Advertising dollars by dangitman · · Score: 1

      How will it affect advertising income? The households participating in the Nielsen ratings will have access to the digital service, so it won't affect ratings at all.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    5. Re:Advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Millions of eyeballs not able to watch tv will mean several millions in lost advertising revenue in a time when tv is already showing declining viewership among the more coveted demographics.

      I thought the more coveted demographics would be people with disposable incomes who could afford things like cable or satellite.

    6. Re:Advertising dollars by UserChrisCanter4 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not really. First off, Sweeps is a month-long period, not a week. Also, March 2009, not February as usual, is sweeps month for this exact reason. It just made sense not to try and accurately gauge viewership in the middle of a changeover.

  20. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I dial 255.255.255.255, can I make all the phones in the world ring at once?

  21. to offset the cost of a $40 converter box? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If TV is really that important to you, I think you can spend on a $40 converter box w/o depending on gov't handouts...

  22. Pirate TV by freyyr890 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm just wondering when the offshore pirate broadcasts in protest are going to start. It doesn't take much to start a pirate TV station (most HAM radio FSTV transmitters can be tuned to other frequencies than are allotted in the HAM bands). Rig a boat with a studio, anchor in international waters, crank up the transmitter power, and go wild.

    Also makes me wonder if the business is open up here in Canada and down south in Mexico to start border blasters.

    1. Re:Pirate TV by dangitman · · Score: 1

      What's the incentive to spend the money and take the risks to do that?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    2. Re:Pirate TV by kindbud · · Score: 1

      Anchor in international waters? That's 12 miles offshore. The only place it's possible to anchor 12 miles offshore of the USA is near the Florida bight. Water's only about 40 feet deep there, not that it's a particularly good idea to drop anchor in the open ocean. Everywhere else, it's way to deep for anchoring 12 miles offshore.

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
    3. Re:Pirate TV by lophophore · · Score: 1

      Ham is not an acronym, and should not be capitalized.

      thank you.

      --
      there are 3 kinds of people:
      * those who can count
      * those who can't
    4. Re:Pirate TV by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1
      I haven't looked at Ham FSTV lately, but all of the transmitters I've had are NTSC, not 8-VSB ot ATSC. You'd be playing to a dwindling audience, I'd think.

      Do you do FSTV? I used to, on 70cm. I have same 10 GHz equipment, but I haven't gotten it all hooked up.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  23. Oh crap... by macbuzz01 · · Score: 1

    Not another four months of listening to the "Are you ready for the digital transition commercials?"...

  24. Poor planning by astinus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It would also allow consumers with expired coupons, available from the government to offset the cost of a $40 converter box, to request new coupons.

    Wait a second... why wouldn't you print all such coupons to expire the day after the planned switchover? What possible reason is there to have them expire early?

    --
    Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.
    1. Re:Poor planning by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      So they wouldn't actually spend all the money but could CLAIM it was all spent. ( ie Some people will forget, or will keep a card for posterity's sake)

    2. Re:Poor planning by Flying+Scotsman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      From what I have heard from various sources, this was to discourage people from all waiting until the last second before redeeming their coupons, resulting in the sudden demand for converter boxes to exceed the supply available in stores. How effective that was is another issue, of course.

    3. Re:Poor planning by jandrese · · Score: 2, Informative

      The idea is that some people would get the coupons but then not use them (they get cable, buy a new TV, move out of the country, etc...) and they wanted the coupons to revert to people who still needed them. Not to mention all of the people who sign up for them because they see the ad, get confused when it comes in the mail and throws them away. If you've requested them but you let your coupons expire you can re-request the coupons. Of course that won't help now that the program is out of money, but blame all of those folks who got coupons they don't need.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
  25. There is nothing on anyways by apenzott · · Score: 2, Informative

    Currently we have 116 channels of mind-numbing NTSC channels.

    After the switchover we will have several hundred more mind-numbing ATSC channels.

    For the cable companies, this means that they will have more (apparent) capacity on their head-end equipment. Unfortunately they have decided it is more important to hand out executive bonuses rather than do the inevitable infrastructure upgrades necessary for the public to notice a difference in digital quality. (The cable companies have the luxury to choose when the switchover happens for their customers that are using the cable box or non-ATSC television (tuner). The rest of the CATV audience with an analog CATV ready TV can be allocated a smaller and smaller analog channel lineup to persuade them to either get a cable box or a new TV.)

    For the OTA audience, let them visit the "TV repair shops" for an expensive lesson in Digital Broadcast Transmission.

    --
    The Roman Rule: The one who says it cannot be done shall not interrupt the one who is doing it.
  26. Corruption? by powerlinekid · · Score: 1

    Not trolling but honestly, why was this article flagged as corruption? Who really gains by pushing this out longer other than the people who are either 1. oblivious or 2. lazy?

    I agree with the posters who say just do it. Personally I use Optimum so mine is covered on their end but it could be a nice little jolt to the economy having a bunch of people running out to buy HD tvs, cable packages or converter boxes.

    --

    can't sleep slashdot will eat me
    1. Re:Corruption? by MBCook · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Quite a few people could be seen to be benefiting from this. Politicians because they will "save the people" by fixing the coupon program (they broke) and stopping TV from "going away". Incumbent providers of some services (basically anyone who stands to get competition from the newly free spectrum) will benefit. Cable and satellite providers get another 120 days to try to fear monger people that they will lose TV if they don't switch to digital cable / digital satellite.

      Basically, many people (myself included at this point) think this change has been handled poorly. Some European countries have been on DTV for years. They said "this is the date" and switched. No coupon programs, no hand-outs, no endless delays (hint: this was supposed to happen in '06), etc. They were willing to put up with the fact this wouldn't be perfectly clean.

      If I bought that spectrum, I would sue the government to stop the delay. I was promised the spectrum (and put up a TON of cash) to get it. It was supposed to be free on Feb 17th. We'd already delayed years and were told "this is it". Now it's not. You just pushed back my millions of dollars of investment and planning by months. That will cost a ton of money.

      And let's not forget, the government gets some of the spectrum too. It's supposed to be usable for emergency services. Do the TVs of a few million people who have been ignoring 2 years of warnings (plus a coupon program) deserve to watch Two and a Half men and One Life To Live more than the emergency services people deserve to use the spectrum?

      It's probably all just stupidity, but it's quite possible to make a decent argument for corruption.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    2. Re:Corruption? by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      Not trolling but honestly, why was this article flagged as corruption?

      Most likely the same people who flagged it as "democrats". Rarely is anything tagged politically to honor someone; it is most likely that some people felt this to be a colossal fuck-up and they wanted to pin it on their favorite scapegoats.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    3. Re:Corruption? by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Who really gains by pushing this out longer other than the people who are either 1. oblivious or 2. lazy?

      The "legitimate" businessmen: Digital TV Tuner companies, Advertisers
      The scammers: Cable companies, Satellite companies, Best Buy Salesmen in the HDTV section, Senators being bribed by all of the above.

    4. Re:Corruption? by TheSync · · Score: 1

      Some European countries have been on DTV for years. They said "this is the date" and switched. No coupon programs, no hand-outs, no endless delays.

      It should be noted that when Berlin had the analog shutoff, they did have a coupon program.

  27. NOOOOOOO!!!! by pjbgravely · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have been waiting for 3 years for this change over.

    Most of the stations I receive will increase their digital streanth. One channel will change frequency and I need to know if I can get that one or I will have to point the antenna to another city.

    --
    Star Trek, there maybe hope.
    1. Re:NOOOOOOO!!!! by mzs · · Score: 1

      That is the only thing good about this for me. It will be a whole lot more pleasant for me to be up on the roof when it is 100F instead of 0F if I need to point the antenna at Indiana to get ABC when it changes frequency here.

    2. Re:NOOOOOOO!!!! by wesborgmandvm · · Score: 1
      Most of the stations I receive will increase their digital streanth.

      I have seen people say that digital reception will be better after the change over. How can you see what stations near you will be increasing power?

    3. Re:NOOOOOOO!!!! by pjbgravely · · Score: 1

      Mostly the FCC maps if you can believe the FCC. Right now only some stations are on full power digital. Some are still using their big antenna for analog, with a side mount one for digital. The same goes for the amplifiers.

      Some stations have to keep their digital power down right now top avoid interfering with existing alanog transmission that will be shut off.

      The stations that appear to be full power digital now come in stronger that stations in another city that is 40 miles closer to me. Their analog signals are now too week for me to get so I have to believe they are on full power digital.

      --
      Star Trek, there maybe hope.
    4. Re:NOOOOOOO!!!! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Most of the stations I receive will increase their digital streanth. One channel will change frequency and I need to know if I can get that one or I will have to point the antenna to another city.

      Exactly. Due to my location I can't even buy the right antenna until the final radiation patterns show up or know if I need a rotor. I got a box that can control a rotor, just in case, but, hell, I just bought a box that'll sit idle for the next four months. I could have spent that money better elsewhere for three of those.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  28. Re:People want CH 2 HD in Chicago to move to bette by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, this will slow that down. Note that channel 7 will make the OPPOSITE move and go to VHF.

  29. There should be no coupons, period. by plasmacutter · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Technology moves on. Did the government give people who owned horses coupons to buy fords?

    its TELEVISION, not national defense or health care.

    Government spending is fine on a good cause, but I don't call the coffers of converter box manufacturers a good cause.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      When the GOVERNMENT passes a law that obsoletes your hardware because the GOVERNMENT wants to sell that spectrum for billions of dollars, the GOVERNMENT needs to reimburse those citizens it fucked in the process. Thanks for being such a corporate shill, though.

      If the government decides to sell off the 2.4/5 GHZ 802.11 A/B/G spectrum for a couple billion dollars and move consumers to a new band, leaving the old wireless gear (laptops, access points, etc.) obsolete (and jammed by the new owner of this spectrum) you don't think you should be compensated in some measure for the new stuff they force you to buy??

      This isn't technology becoming naturally obsolete...this is technology being disabled with malice aforethought by the government.

    2. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by Nirvelli · · Score: 2, Informative

      But government didn't make horses illegal, so switching to a car was a choice.
      Switching to digital has been mandated by the government, no choosing if you want to switch or not.

    3. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by The+Atog+Lord · · Score: 1

      The government is forcing the change. It wasn't that the TV stations, of their own accord, decided to switch. Instead, it is being forced by the government. So, before you get all upset that the government is helping people switch over, just remember that it is the government that is demanding the process in the first place.

    4. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know...did the government sell the roads to the highest bidder, and the new owner no longer allowed horses to transit the roads? Because that's the real analogy here.

    5. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by WiiVault · · Score: 3, Informative

      When the government sells the spectrum and makes money they should certainly use some of that money to assist people in upgrading. I mean when they brokered the deal they certainly budgeted for it.

    6. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      When the GOVERNMENT passes a law that obsoletes your hardware because the GOVERNMENT wants to sell that spectrum for billions of dollars, the GOVERNMENT needs to reimburse those citizens it fucked in the process. Thanks for being such a corporate shill, though.

      If the government decides to sell off the 2.4/5 GHZ 802.11 A/B/G spectrum for a couple billion dollars and move consumers to a new band, leaving the old wireless gear (laptops, access points, etc.) obsolete (and jammed by the new owner of this spectrum) you don't think you should be compensated in some measure for the new stuff they force you to buy??

      This isn't technology becoming naturally obsolete...this is technology being disabled with malice aforethought by the government.

      So.. how many people were bought new cars because the government screwed over everyone who had horses?

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    7. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know...

      Did the government invent Fords or somehow make horses completely unusable? Seems to me people could and did keep using their horses just fine after a private individual invented the horseless carriage. Did the government sell the roads to the highest bidder and kick horses off of them?

      Your analogy is busted.

      The government sold the spectrum and forced the complete obsolescence of perfect good televisions. We're not talking about your TV falling behind the technology curve, like say, not supporting surround sound or dolby digital, high-def video, etc. A perfectly good television (millions of them, as a matter of fact) were intentionally made obsolete by the government, at the government's profit.

      If Obama passed a law that required all cars to run on E85 and made E10 and E0 illegal to sell, you'd be pitching a fucking fit. Why? Because by doing that the government would be making your gas burning car unusable. Technology moves on, chap, those are the breaks?? No, I don't think so.

    8. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      Did the government give people who owned horses coupons to buy fords?

      No, but the government didn't outlaw the sale of horsefeed, either. The analog-to-digital switch is not merely technological; it is also something caused by government.

      Not that I really disagree with your conclusion, but it's more complex than you're saying it is.

      its TELEVISION, not national defense or health care.

      Yeah, that's a the big one. For all the debate on the topic, the stakes are pretty small. No decision (switch now, switch later), even the wrong one, can be all that bad.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    9. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by dwye · · Score: 1

      > So.. how many people were bought new cars because the government screwed over everyone who had horses?

      No one, because the government didn't. Ask anyone who lives near the Amish; horses are still perfectly legal on the roads. They are banned from limited access highways by not being able to meet the minimum speed (40 MPH), but that is it. The most that they mandated was turn signals and maybe brake lights.

    10. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      > So.. how many people were bought new cars because the government screwed over everyone who had horses?

      No one, because the government didn't. Ask anyone who lives near the Amish; horses are still perfectly legal on the roads. They are banned from limited access highways by not being able to meet the minimum speed (40 MPH), but that is it. The most that they mandated was turn signals and maybe brake lights.

      Check your laws. Or are you going to buy a giant pooper scooper?

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  30. No television? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What? Is there a chance that all those TV addicts won't be able to see Obama and Oprah? How sad.

  31. Health care... by FlopEJoe · · Score: 0, Troll

    And tell me again why the government should be in charge of health care?

    1. Re:Health care... by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
      Because: 1. Everyone needs it. So there is no one that can say "please don't spend my taxes on it, I don't want it."

      2. When some people don't have it, it hurts those that do (damn shmucks don't vaccinate).

      3. Because there is a HUGE and expensive infrastructure built to manage payments for it. If we need to have that kind of bureaucracy, we might as well let the government do it. Because why the government doesn't do things well, neither does the current system.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    2. Re:Health care... by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      By that logic, why should the government be in charge of anything...

      Take Mike Moore's work (Sicko) with a grain of salt given his anti-Dubya stance - The rest of the world were bemused at the assertion that a 3rd world nation like Cuba might have a better health care service than the mighty USA.

    3. Re:Health care... by youngdev · · Score: 0

      Easy. Look how well they managed.... um er. brb

    4. Re:Health care... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Because my local cable co and the satellite cos are even more inept than the Government. Therefore, we know that the Government probably isn't the least inefficient engine for brokering services.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    5. Re:Health care... by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      More layers mean more people can siphon more money off from the taxpayers. More people benefiting at the public expense, means more campaign contributions to the re-election funds of those who move power from the people to the government.

      Everyone wins.

      Except the peo-- NO, I SAID EVERYONE WINS.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  32. Obama's advisor gets richer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And Obama's advisor who makes money from the current situation gets a little richer.

  33. Nothing to do with the new FCC Chairman.. right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or at least, the guy everyone is saying is going to be appointed by Obama to the job: Julius_Genachowski

    You know, a board member of a number of media-related organizations like Common Sense Media, and Chief of Business Operations at IAC/Interactive.

    Of course, he's a supporter of so-called 'net neutrality' (as all his business ventures are online-based), which is probably a good thing (depending on your POV) because it affects his bottom line, but at the same time, they're antagonizing all the broadcasters that have spent millions investing in the technology needed for this cutover by the date set over 4 years ago. Not to mention Qualcomm, AT&T, and Verizon, who spent millions to set up their MediaFLO network with the expectation that the analog channels would be freed up for their use by this date.

    Lesson to these guys: Next time, make sure to contribute more to the Messiah's campaign.

     

  34. Why is the Government Paying for it? by spankyofoz · · Score: 1

    TV is a luxury item, absolutely non-essential. So why is the government paying for people to be able to receive TV?

    The people who should be paying for it are the TV companies, and the advertisers, ie. those who profit from millions of slack-jawed yokels staring at the tube all day.

    Fundamentally, the guovernment seems to be guaranteeing access to TV for all. So what if you don't own one, should they provide you with a unit? Or if yours breaks down, should they pay to repair it?

    I just don't get how and why the gov't got involved.

    Here in Australia, politicians are having the same debate.

    --

    - There is no point, it's like a sphere -
  35. HD converter boxes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do they even make HD converter boxes? I've got an older Samsung HD monitor without a built-in tuner. We have cable, but the HD quality sucks. I'd like to at least try the OTA stuff, but it's wasted on the big TV. I don't want a combo DVR/DVD Recorder/whathaveyou that I've seen - do they just make a simple external OTA HD tuner that you can hook up to your TV??

    I've debated about trying to find an HD tuner to add to my Vista Media Center, but I don't know if it's powerful enough to process the HD signal. Maybe I've got it wrong, though.

    1. Re:HD converter boxes? by man_ls · · Score: 1

      Yes. They're about $100, and they even had three different brands of them when I was at Best Buy.

    2. Re:HD converter boxes? by Digz · · Score: 1
      --
      SYS 64738
  36. Re:Just do it!/done did it by zogger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Worked out better for us. Don't know about the economy overall, but for us it was a deal, it made it so the old set is still functional, and it improved it immensely! Like a really good cheap upgrade! Got the coupon, bought a zenith 901 converter, and we get more stations now and they come in *clear*, out in north cow flop rural Georgia. Before, stations were all fuzzy, none of them clear, plus we picked up PBS, which we couldn't get at all before. Granted, you can *not* screw with the antenna once it is set, but once you have it adjusted ~just so~, it's great, the old tube has the best picture evar, like watching a disk. That's a dollars-intangible personal subjective improvement, but the lessening of the fuzzy stations annoyance factor has some net worth. And that is just using indoor rabbit ears! And despite other folks anecdotals, we haven't experienced much in the way of bad weather dropouts.

      The only thing I don't like about the digital conversion is, we have two old battery portable units to use for during power outtages, and there are few replacements for those on the market yet and all spendy (compared to 15 dollar analog portable sets you can get still). There's a market niche that needs to be filled, I am sure many other people would like to have a portable digital TV in the affordable category. If I have to I'll just get another converter and run both devices from a 12 volt battery and an inverter. I have that rig now but use it for my laptop when the power goes out.

      With that said, I wish the government would just broadcast a plain vanilla constantly updated local weather radar scan (that can be analog on some locked assigned frequency maybe), the weather radios don't quite cut it without that visual. That would be another improvement.

      So, for some small spending, cash out of pocket plus my citizen tax payer share of the proceeds from the public spectrum auction in the form of the converter coupon, we get much better TV quality, and more stations, without having to purchase a new TV or go to monthly big bill satellite TV. Is that good or bad for the economy? For us it was a good enough deal. And who knoweth but maybe the freed up spectrum (the other 1/2 of the digital conversion package that will be used somehow) might go to someone getting wireless broadband that works out here, lead pipe cinch there isn't going to be anything wired ever run, no company is going to run anything decent for more than a mile to maybe pickup a total of six households, just ain't never gonna happen. And that is roughly 15% of the nation that still can't get any sort of broadband. And the benefits of broadband/internet are well understood. I use the net all the time to look stuff up we need for farming (just the amount of crap that breaks and needs new parts makes online shopping worthwhile) or to research things for my various geekier projects, saves a ton of time and driving around expense and cash dollars when we go to spend them. Dialup is good enough for that (although more expensive than most peoples broadband now), but for keeping a linux distro updated (or even getting the distro downloaded) it is the pits though...

    I was actually looking forward to the overall big digital switch day, to see if we got even more channels as the stations went more power. We have an outside mast antenna, but it is more or less whipped and dysfunctional, if the big changeover goes very well, I will consider getting a rotor and a newer antenna to max out the freebie viewing experience (brand/make/model suggestions from anyone knowledgeable gratefully accepted).

  37. convergence by zogger · · Score: 1

    Because right now you get both kinds of signal in most markets. That's why we got the zenith, it has analog pass through, so you can get either kind of signal. And even after the changeover, a lot of smaller powered community stations around the country will be staying with an analog signal. I dont know the particulars to the one you replied to, but it might be because the person's fav channel was analog only at this time, but they wanted to be prepared for the switch.

  38. emergency broadcast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, there will be a ton of people that will be rushing to get their converter boxes a week before the switch and a tons more after.

    BUT why not use the emergency weather broadcast system? If you keep annoying people with a 4 second notice every half hour for several months during usual tv programming, then people will know.
    But maybe that makes too much sense

  39. What about the lease space by WillRobinson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And that space that was sold in the auction? Is the government going to reimburse the people who purchased the leases on this space that will be continued to be used? I smell another bailout..

    1. Re:What about the lease space by matthewd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Their licenses will get extended the 116 days the switchover is delayed:

      US Senate passes bill to delay digital TV switch

      There is an interesting politics as usual angle to this too:

      Chicago politics lands in DC

  40. Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by peektwice · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Horse shit, there is no fence. These assholes (government, network TV, viewers) have had four years to get ready for this. Anyone dragging their feet over a $49US converter box is just a lazy shit-bum. Remember folks, TV is a luxury item that you don't need. It shouldn't be subsidized. If you want to continue watching it, get a converter. Simple as that. You've all had ample time to get the converter. The fact that 2.5 million people are on the waiting list tells me that there are 2.5 million lazy sons-of-bitches that will NEVER get with the program as long as there are delays. Remember when Al Gore said we had ten years to fix global warming? These same fuckers are waiting for the government delay on that too.

    --
    Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
    1. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by dsoltesz · · Score: 1

      Four years? This started back in 1996, and the original transition date was already delayed once from 2006 until 2009. This has been going on for waaaay too long -- four months won't make a difference, particularly not enough of one to justify the economic impact of another delay that the current economy cannot afford.

    2. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      Remember folks, TV is a luxury item that you don't need. It shouldn't be subsidized.

      In some West-European countries, it is argued that television is an important medium for people to stay informed. If you wouldn't have a TV, you'd be set back quite a bit information-wise. Thus lots of municipalities offer TVs for people at welfare level, either free or against a substantial discount.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    3. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by berberine · · Score: 1

      When I bought my new TV in September 2004, I purposely looked for one that had HDTV built in so that, in 2006, I didn't have to fuck around with boxes or looking for a new TV. To me, that's 4.5 years that I know of for people to get their act together. If they haven't done it now, they aren't going to do it until their blessed TV goes dark and they are forced to get off their asses and sort it out for themselves.

    4. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Horse shit, there is no fence. These assholes (government, network TV, viewers) have had four years to get ready for this. Anyone dragging their feet over a $49US converter box is just a lazy shit-bum. Remember folks, TV is a luxury item that you don't need. It shouldn't be subsidized. If you want to continue watching it, get a converter. Simple as that. You've all had ample time to get the converter. The fact that 2.5 million people are on the waiting list tells me that there are 2.5 million lazy sons-of-bitches that will NEVER get with the program as long as there are delays. Remember when Al Gore said we had ten years to fix global warming? These same fuckers are waiting for the government delay on that too."

      Hurray! Someone that agrees with me. WTF are we paying (our tax dollars) for these converter boxes? As you said so aptly, TV is not a necessity, it's a luxury. Radio is still free, use that if you need news. The 2.5 million people on the waiting list are too f-ing cheap to buy a box and want Uncle Sam (us) to do it for them. I hate it when we coddle idiots and lazy people because it just reinforces their behavior.

    5. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason it is being subsidized is because television is used in emergency situations to broadcast information to people about shelters, evacuations, etc. Without it the government couldn't communicate this information to people and you could have a minor disaster become a major one.

      If you step outside of the slashdot echo chamber, you'll realize that $50 is alot of money to some people. That's a weeks worth of groceries, or enough to help pay the electric bill so you can not freeze to death. Not everyone has disposable income.

    6. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by dwye · · Score: 1

      > Remember folks, TV is a luxury item that you don't need. It shouldn't be subsidized.

      And it shouldn't be dictated. Does the government specify the brand of caviar that I buy? Does it tell me that my yacht can no longer be made of wood but must be fiberglass, because fiberglass is better, or specify that sails cannot be dacron but must henceforth be mylar-kevlar composites?

      Is it REALLY that important to see all the pores on Donald Sutherland's face (since Dirty Sexy Money is clearly made on HDTV)? Or do you just want the logo in the lower left of the screen to really POP out at you?

    7. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Uh, what is wrong with a radio? You can get those for $5 these days. You can probably build one for less even at Radio Shack part retail prices.

    8. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm with you. There will always be buggars that drag their feet until they actually HAVE TO, no matter how much time you have. Those coupons should not have had expiration dates on them or the dates should have been longer. I made the change this month after ordering my coupons in December and getting them in January and the digital reception is great. I got fed up with cable's rising prices and lack of decent and entertaining programming, so I went the more-recession-friendly route and cancelled cable, got 2 coupons and bought 3 converter boxes for my TVs. Come on people get with the program, we knew this was coming years ago, let it happen and get your butt in gear!

    9. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are severely misinformed.

      1. Nobody's mandating HDTV, they're mandating digital broadcasts. The picture isn't gonna be much different.
      2. The reason the government is doing this is because they sold off the spectrum we were using for analog TV to a bunch of telecoms for ~$20bil.

      HTH

    10. Re:Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone dragging their feet over a $49US converter box is just a lazy shit-bum

      ...only if the format of the digital transmission is set in stone. In Russia, the market was recently flooded with digital-capable TV sets that were only able to decode MPEG-2. Yet the government decided to go with MPEG-4, effectively turning these expensive TV sets into junk.

  41. Outer Limits by kybred · · Score: 1

    I hope when the analog stations go off the air, they do the old horizontal line to a bright dot in the center of the screen. Like Outer Limits did at the end of the show.

  42. Let's take a trip back to 2005... by Mister303 · · Score: 1

    Back in 2005 when the "Digital Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005" was passed by congress mandating DTV:

    Republicans controlled both houses of congress.

    The corrupting influence of lobbies in Washington during that time is beyond dispute (evidenced by their growth in numbers and the scandals that have broken).

    The FCC was run by Michael "I don't know what public interest means." Powell.

    The lobbies for over-air broadcasters likely could have influenced the timing of the transition and yet they didn't see any problem with having the transition occur near their sweeps?

    Give them what they asked for.

    Too many people watch too much t.v. Pull the switch.

  43. re: "harming" the economy by macraig · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Forcing people to buy things they don't need or want with no benefit to them won't stimulate the economy- it will force dollars away from useful purchases to useless ones. It harms the economy, not boosts it.

    What a process like that actually does is concentrate wealth/resources. Whether that constitutes "harming" the economy depends entirely upon one's values, ethics, and "economic party" (Capitalist, Socialist, Libertarian, Anarchist, etc.). I would guess you must be a socialist of sorts, but I have to tell you, many people for better or worse don't see the behavior you described as "harmful" at all.

    It's that ethical failure, possibly delusional, to see the harm it causes that is the real danger, especially here in the United States (thanks to our own peculiar brand of indoctrination over the last century). We can't even agree on what constitutes harm. We can't agree on that because a significant segment of the population is so utterly self-centric that if it doesn't harm them or their own close circle, then it's simply not harm to them. The apparent lack of empathy for strangers is so pervasive that you might think half the population is autistic or something.

  44. Who? What? When? by belg4mit · · Score: 1

    There doesn;t appear to be any bill on file.

    Search http://thomas.loc.gov/ for coupon, and you get three results:
    2 HR, and something different in the Senate...

    --
    Were that I say, pancakes?
  45. Looks like Clearwire paid the bigger bribe. B-) by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1, Interesting

    As was previously posted on slashdot, Obama's chief advisor on the DTV transition was a Clearwire executive.

    Clearwire, in cooperation with Sprint, is currently rolling out its WiMAX network. It faces competition from vendors attempting to rollout the competing LTE standard - on the TV bandwidth to be freed up by the DTV transition (for which they've already paid the government billions of bux in bandwidth auctions).

    Delaying the transition delays the LTE rollouts - which both allows Clearwire to grab more market share and delays revenue from their investments to the LTE carriers.

    Looks like Chicago politics has gone national. B-)

    = = = =

    PS: For those who are talking about forced purchase of converter boxes as an "economic stimulus": It's NOTHING compared to the LTE rollout that is on hold, locking up capital and creating huge opportunity costs.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  46. Re:This is crazy by superdave80 · · Score: 1

    So, criticizing Obama counts as "flamebait" now? Is Obama the new Apple on /.?

    I think he has raises a good question: Is Obama tech savvy or not? This move to delay the switchover seems to imply he is not.

  47. Because of Clearwire vs. LTV carriers. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not trolling but honestly, why was this article flagged as corruption?

    Because Obama's adviser on the DTV transition was an executive VP at Clearwire, which (with Sprint) is rolling out a WiMAX network. The competition (notably Verizon) is about to roll out LTE on the bandwidth being freed by the DTV transition (which they bought at auction for billions.)

    Delaying the DTV transition for months delays the LTE rollout ditto, while Clearwire captures more market share and the competitors' capital is locked up in useless assets that are producing no revenue.

    See this slashdot article for more.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  48. time to get the stickers out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I have a Black and White analog TV and I vote!" .. now... off my lawn!

  49. Re:Another tax by jav1231 · · Score: 1

    Flamebait? Another way the clueless mod the intelligent. In the above context the "stupid" are those who whatever reason haven't gotten the fact that analog is going away. Hysteria ensues and it becomes a "tax" on the intelligent as we now have to wait.

  50. Ran out of coupons? by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

    The government ran out of coupons earlier this month...

    They have plenty of coupons. They just don't have any money to back them up. I'm surprised they didn't keep issuing them anyway and send retailers an IOU.

    --
    'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  51. No PBS Kids on cable by tepples · · Score: 1

    I have the feeling that many/most on that list don't actually need a box. Talking with various people, there's a lot getting them 'just in case' even though they get cable/dish.

    My household has Comcast cable, but the basic service doesn't have the PBS subchannels, so we don't get (say) Make Way for Noddy on PBS Kids without the converter. We also have a TV in a bedroom without a cable outlet.

  52. Early switch? by PPH · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So, ome of our local stations is planning to switch early. On February 6th to be exact. So I'm guessing that the Feb 17th date was a "must switch by" date but earlier was OK. Unless the new legislation has been written to prohibit switching early, what's to stop stations from sticking to the Feb 17th date?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  53. idiots by mcspoo · · Score: 1

    This will cost so much money it's not funny. Broadcasters have spent BILLIONS combined to switch over their equipment by Feb 17... and for what? They get to pay an massive gouge amount of digital broadcast equipment. In the end, what was the purpose of it? Set a date and stick to it. No one saves money on this... and isn't that what the Govt SHOULD be doing now?

  54. $40 coupon why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is the government giving them a $40 coupon - dont they already get their tv for free while the rest of us pay $40 a month?

  55. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We never went metric either.

  56. Dude, you were talking to a call center by Syncdata · · Score: 1

    These cats were getting paid to say whatever their bosses told them to. I understand that you are primarily condemning Comcast here, but really? Sticking it to a phone monkey? I've been there man, it's a bad enough job as it is. Fun fact: If you sense that you have gotten a phone monkey who knows what they are talking about, speaking strictly in hypotheticals is an excellent way to get solid information off a solid rep.

    --
    "Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
  57. Expen$ive by hax0r_this · · Score: 1

    Yeah, but if you're 12 miles offshore you'll need to broadcast a pretty high power signal. And unless you are ferrying batteries out to your transmitter, that means buying a lot of gas. Which, if you haven't noticed, is expensive these days.

  58. Bad Signals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reception in remote areas is still pretty bad. Personally I think the signal for analog was better. Many portable TV's are going to go to waste.

  59. Why not honor expired coupons? by iliketrash · · Score: 1

    Why do I have to request new coupons to replace my expired ones? Why doesn't the Congress just force the expired ones to be honored?

    1. Re:Why not honor expired coupons? by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      Because the problem is that they've only got a set amount of funding for coupons, and when your coupon expired they issued a new coupon to somebody on the waiting list. If they were to revalidate all the expired coupons, suddenly there will be the possibility of more coupons being redeemed than they have funding to cover.

    2. Re:Why not honor expired coupons? by iliketrash · · Score: 1

      Uh, your answer makes no sense. If they have money for the replacement coupons (which they do or why would they decide to issue them now) then they have the money for the original (expired) coupons. Get it? They would have even more money if they use my idea because there is less expense in administering it. The problem is that your premise, that they have only a set amount of money for coupons, is false.

    3. Re:Why not honor expired coupons? by Dahan · · Score: 1

      The problem is that your premise, that they have only a set amount of money for coupons, is false.

      Uh, in what way is it false? I'll answer that for you—it is in no way false; it is absolutely true. About $1.34 billion was allocated to the coupon program, with a cap of $160 million on administrative costs.

    4. Re:Why not honor expired coupons? by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      Actually my answer makes total sense, as long as you aren't too ignorant to understand it.

      The way the program has worked up until now:

      1) You signup for the coupon
      2) If they haven't run out of coupons, then you get your coupon, otherwise you get put on the waiting list
      3) When you do get your coupon, you have 3 months (from date of issue) to use it.
      4) If you don't use your coupon before it expires, it's value goes back into the pool. If the pool has been depleted, that means the next person on the waiting list gets your coupon.
      5) Once your coupon has expired, you are done. No second chances. You are SOL.

      What this change in policy does is replace #5 with the following

      5) Once your coupon has expired, you've lost your place in line. You now go back into the waiting list (but I'm not clear if you go to the head of the list or the end of the list). If there never becomes enough funds available to issue you a coupon, then you are still SOL.

      Get it?

      Now, lets say $100 million in coupons are expired. They issue new coupons to the waiting list in the amount of $100 million. Now pretend they revalidate your expired coupons. Suddenly there are $200 million in coupons that could be redeemed, but they only have $100 million left in the fund. Do you see a potential problem?

      Get it?

  60. NoOoOo! by maven454 · · Score: 1

    Blast, I was really hoping the whole thing would be over soon. I'm tired of hearing about it. I don't watch TV and don't care about TV and I've known about the switch for a long time. If there's really anyone who doesn't already know, they've either been living in Antarctica for the past two years or manage to care even less than I do (and that would be quite a feat). Seriously, there will always be someone who doesn't know, just switch already.

    --Maven

  61. Re:Looks like Clearwire paid the bigger bribe. B-) by Megane · · Score: 1

    Looks like Chicago politics has gone national. B-)

    Hey, it's change you can believe in!

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  62. It isn't victim-free Idiocracy by smchris · · Score: 1

    At our new home of two months, reception is marginal on a few channels. I've been holding on for that last month wondering whether power will be diverted to HD when analog goes down so my problem will disappear. Or whether I need an amp and a better antenna. If they move the channels back to VHF when analog goes down will any given amp and antenna combo I buy now be optimal at VHF?

    This is really annoying. We've been on broadcast HD for something like 2-1/4 years and I don't think that earns us any early-adopter bragging rights. If the Senate wants to please the greatest slice of the normal curve, I think they have aimed very low.

  63. Urg by htricia · · Score: 1

    Well, I don't qualify for a coupon. So four months more means, four months longer I get to watch TV on TV then I will be limited to what I can watch online. Anyone wanna give me their coupon?

  64. One good reason by Megane · · Score: 1

    There is exactly one good reason why the mandatory cutoff date for digital (without requiring existing stations to delay any plans to switch next month) should be moved foward a few months. In the Rocky Mountain areas, it's winter time, and some transmitters are essentially inaccessible during February because they are snowed in. It's rather tricky to switch over a transmitter when you can't even roll a truck to it.

    Of course we know that the main reason is still the Clearwire guy in the Obama cabinet.

    I've been watching only digital for what, five years now? During the first year of that, I even stopped watching the Fox station because they only had an 800 watt (as in eight light bulbs) transmitter at that time, my HD tuner box didn't have an analog tuner and I didn't want to keep switching back and forth. Also, in the past few months, I haven't had to go up and precisely re-align my antenna after winds blow it around, so some of the stations must have improved their signal relatively recently.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  65. Marketing by Taimat · · Score: 1

    So, All the money that was spent too market "the switch" is now a waste. All those "on Feb 17th..." commercials and other marketing materials are wasted money that the Gov. will have to to again, and spend more money to "inform the masses" about the delay! Can we change the old saying to add stupidity? "Only 3 things are constant in life... death and taxes - and stupidity."

    --
    The above comments are not guaranteed to make sense to anyone other than the author...
  66. Clearwire's competitors supported the delay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.multichannel.com/article/162373-Verizon_Flip_Flops_On_DTV_Delay.php?rssid=20059/

    If the people you allege are hurt by the government action are supporting the action, there's no real basis to say the action is being taken as a result of corruption by the people you allege are helped by it.

    1. Re:Clearwire's competitors supported the delay by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      I'm not alleging this. (At least not in THIS response. B-) )

      The question was why somebody else added a corruption tag and I was suggesting that these allegations may be the reason.

      If Verizon is for it then perhaps they're having trouble with their own rollout and would like THEIR competition (other than Clearwire) to be delayed, too.

      So until everybody who bought TV bandwidth comes out in favor of the delay I'm prepared to entertain the idea that the delay may be the administration playing favorites. But I have absolutely no evidence that this is what is happening.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  67. Not so easy-9 stations to 1 ! by speedlaw · · Score: 1

    I have OTA from a roof antenna, which gets all the nYc HDTV stations with no problem. I also have a set of rabbit ears out in the office, hooked up to an old analog set (think grandma). This gets all the NYC analog stations with good but not perfect reception. I'm 40 miles north of NYC but with a line of sight down the Hudson River. Yesterday I hooked up a converter box to the rabbit ears for digital. I was able to get ONE station, and even that was not a stable picture. Looks like I need to run another cable from the rooftop antenna. Easy for me, but Grandma's going to have issues. Even so, we need the radio spectrum. How about using channel 4, 71 mhz, for WiMax ? (Best over hill coverage of any of the TV channels)

    1. Re:Not so easy-9 stations to 1 ! by n6mod · · Score: 1

      So you should be pushing *for* the transition. Once the DTV signals move onto the existing analog channels, you'll be in good shape.

      I don't know why this is so hard to communicate, but nobody seems to get it. It's the UHF spectrum where the DTV signals are now that is being freed up, not the current VHF channels.

      The temporary, low power, inferior antenna DTV signals are going away. Judge your likely post-transition digital reception based on your current analog reception, not your current digital reception.

      --
      You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
    2. Re:Not so easy-9 stations to 1 ! by speedlaw · · Score: 1

      I am for the transition. I've had a converter box ever since USDTV sent out subsidized boxes to Wal Mart (into a market where there was never a USDTV station). My first few viewings were the stations putting up "if you see this call us" for signal reports. I am totally for the transition at this point. I was pointing out that there would be a few folks who would be SOL, but there are some people who won't do anything until you pick up the couch they are sitting on....

    3. Re:Not so easy-9 stations to 1 ! by TheSync · · Score: 1

      I don't know why this is so hard to communicate, but nobody seems to get it. It's the UHF spectrum where the DTV signals are now that is being freed up, not the current VHF channels.

      Because this is wrong. The only channels being "evacuated" are the "out-of-core" UHF channels 52 and higher. Below that, it is only a matter of reshuffling. Some analog VHF stations are staying VHF in DTV, others have UHF DTV assignments. Some analog stations in UHF are staying UHF in DTV, or moving to VHF in DTV.

      For example, in Washington, DC, all analog TV stations regardless of VHF or UHF have UHF DTV channels.

      In Las Vegas, five analog VHF stations (KVBC, KVVU, KLAS, KLVX, KTNV) have VHF DTV channels.

      But then there are UHF analog channels that have VHF DTV channels, such as Albany WXXA which is analog UHF 23 but digital VHF 7.

      The shuffling is even more bizarre for stations with out-of-core DTV assignments. Los Angeles KCOP is on analog VHF 13 and currently out-of-core DTV UHF 66, which will move DTV to in-core VHF 13 after the analog shut-off.

    4. Re:Not so easy-9 stations to 1 ! by n6mod · · Score: 1

      Because this is wrong. The only channels being "evacuated" are the "out-of-core" UHF channels 52 and higher.

      Maybe not wrong, but I'll give you incomplete. It is a complex situation No VHF spectrum is being freed up. 51 and higher have been auctioned off.

      DTV is, by and large, not on the channel, transmitter, or antenna that it will be using after the transition. In many cases the final digital channel is currently occupied by an analog transmitter.

      My impression was that the normal case would be the "even more bizarre" situation you describe, but that seems not to be the case, and often the post-transition digital allocation is currently occupied by another station's analog signal. Looking here: http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php it appears to be common, but not the norm.

      This is why there had to be a single cutoff date, and why the 'nightlight' proposal was so brain-damaged.

      --
      You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
  68. The Pool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was thinking about the changeover and it occurred to me that this is where the OJ Simpson jury pool could have come from.

  69. They don't want us to wake up. by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

    I guess the government doesn't want a lot of unhappy people sitting at home without a TV to numb their minds for 4 hours a day.

    Imagine if everyone's TV's stopped working at once during the first month Obama is in office? It'd be like the next Katrina for his administration! Plus, then people might start thinking for themselves... it could get ugly.

  70. If you can't afford the converter box... by LoudNoiseElitist · · Score: 1

    ...you don't need a TV.

  71. Because 15% of a smaller number is smaller by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Duh.

  72. 30,000 - 40,000 USD per MONTH by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1

    One client of ours is paying $30,000 - $40,000 per month to keep their Analog broadcasts going... they can't wait for the shut off. (This is for 5 channels with 30-something terrestrial locations.)

    Those analog transmitters take a lot of juice.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  73. The needed warning-shot by ckotchey · · Score: 1

    I don't care much whether they delay or not, but I think what they SHOULD do is shut down the signals on Feb 17th as planned, but only for 24 hours. Then, tell the whiners "ok, we've been warning you for years now, that was your final warning". Then shut it off on the new deadline without any additional delays - because you know there WILL be more complaining when that day rolls around too.
    Of course, this would all have to also depend on the gov't actually getting those coupons out to everybody - THAT you can't blame them for.

  74. Don't they get it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't they get it everyone is happy with the analog system and it is working fine no one cares to switch. The whole think is a revenue boost for best buy and cable providers.

  75. This was fairly obvious by fwarren · · Score: 1

    Who would want to be the president who 2 weeks after being in office takes television away from 20% of the country. It does not matter if the new president was Republican or Democrat. You could see this one coming on for a long time.

    --
    vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
    1. Re:This was fairly obvious by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Who would want to be the president who 2 weeks after being in office takes television away from 20% of the country.

      Would it really be 20%? 14.3 million is the Nielsen estimate that rely on OTA TV. Per the census in 2000, we have 105M households.

      That means only 13% of households depend on OTA. Per NTIA - on Dec 17, 2008 11M out of that 14.3M had requested coupons. Overall, 22M households had requested 41M coupons, and 17M redeemed. That means 77% of that 13% has had the opportunity to get a converter box or two.

      By my calc, the number of households that would lose the ability to receive OTA broadcasts would be well under 3% at this point. At least some households wouldn't be requesting coupons/buying converter boxes due to purchasing of TVs with digital tuners.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
  76. Tell me something.... by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    How the eff do they know that people haven't switched over? Seems to me that if you're still working off rabbit ears, you probably don't have a whole lot of contact with the outside world. Besides, it's not like these rumored slackers haven't had YEARS to deal with it. And then there's the issue of the recovered whitespace which a lot of companies are itching to build devices for. Is this a ploy by the new administration to shout "Do Over!" and then auction off the whitespace to make money for the bailout?

  77. Digital != Quality by Diss+Champ · · Score: 1

    I have one of those converter boxes. Hooking it up to the same cheap antenna I had used for analog broadcasts, the quality of reception is much much lower. Lots of digital artifacts, choppiness, etc. The digital degrades much less gracefully than the analog broadcasts. I live in a decent-sized city, and we're talking local stations not broadcasting from particularly far away. So for the average consumer, particularly the type who were not willing/able to pay for cable or satellite before, the switchover is a Bad Thing, even if they get the free converters.

    Now, to respond in advance to those who will tell me to go buy a better antenna to partially fix the problem- sure, I could do that. Of course, that means that the conversion causes yet another consumer expense, another reason the conversion is bad for the average person.

    In my particular case, I very rarely bother to watch TV, except for local weather and occasional local news. My computer is already the better way to be entertained. So I don't have a big stake in whether my TV works. But there are plenty out there who are likely to be pissed when they discover how badly their The Price Is Right comes in now.

    1. Re:Digital != Quality by amoeba1911 · · Score: 1

      I have no friggen idea wtf you're talking about or anyone else who says digital tv has poor reception.
      The ones bitching about loss of signal in digital tv are people who have less discriminating taste and don't mind watching fuzzy shit on their analog tv and are used to seeing constant snow on their tv.
      Now why the god damn delay? So what if some schmuck doesn't have tv for a few weeks? Are people that addicted to TV that they can't live without it?
      bitch-bitch-bitch- in 1969 people went to the moon. Half a century later we're struggling with small potatoes, and struggling for 4 more months...

  78. Re:Looks like Clearwire paid the bigger bribe. B-) by MChisholm · · Score: 1

    I don't disagree that the connections to Clearwire and WiMAX smells fishy, but important to note here is that Verizon has changed its original stance and is now supporting a DTV delay, so maybe the LTE rollout wasn't as ready as they'd have hoped.

    http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/01/verizon-does-180-says-it-now-supports-a-dtv-delay.ars

    Personally, I think the bandaid just needs to be ripped off. The same idiots that aren't ready, won't be ready.

  79. Coupons during a recession by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it doesn't make sense to have these coupon programs when the economy is doing so bad. i'm sure there are much better uses for the money spent on this program. i blame special interest groups and their gifts.

  80. Mod parent up by qwertyatwork · · Score: 1

    Excellent idea. I wish I had mod points for you.

  81. BLurb is inaccurate by Orig_Club_Soda · · Score: 0

    "coupons, available from the government to offset the cost of a $40 converter box" ... that is not correct. Converter boxes are a variety of brices, not $40. The coupon is worth $40. Additionally, the people running this thing have determined that the people selling the boxes are jacking up the price in addition to the $40 coupon - because of the coupon. (More or less proving the coupon is not necessary)

  82. Saddly this delays Qorona's open WideNet as well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know the coverage sucks for some, but the outcome in the coming years will be better. An open network that will deliver all kinds of things will ultimately replace TV stations, Cell phone companies. After all this recession should let people know you better start tacking care of yourself because corps don't give a hoot about you. Why pay for network access when you can have it for pennies on the month or free if you generate your own power. Stay tuned....

  83. Needed an antenna and preamp but it's nice now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I switched a few weeks ago. I had to spend $60 for an antenna (attic) and $40 for an antenna preamp. Loads more channels, much better quality. We're about 40 miles from the station. It was a pretty laborious job getting everything to work but we're very happy with what we have now. Combine that with hulu.com and we have all we need.

    The problem with this program is that in many cases, you really need to add an antenna and preamp in addition to the converter box. Maybe $100 if you can do it yourself. Moderately more if you need someone else to do the installation on the roof.