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Apple's Terms No Longer Allow ITMS Purchases Outside of US

JasonDT writes "I just accepted the new terms of service for iTunes and found that I will no longer be allowed to access US iTunes outside of the United States. This may seem like no big deal but, I am a US citizen living abroad and I regularly purchase and view TV and movies from AppleTV. Not to mention US citizens just traveling abroad. Does anyone know if this has been enforced or have themselves been affected by this?"

319 comments

  1. Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Foofoobar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Register itunesproxy.com before apple does!!!

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    1. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Yvan256 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Even better, someone register itunes.apple.com, quick!

    2. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's a joke, I don't get it.

    3. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Got it :D

      It directs u to 1.3.3.7 for now lol.

    4. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Domain Name:ITUNESPROXY.COM
      Created On:01-Jan-1970 00:00:00 UTC
      Last Updated On:03-Feb-2009 16:51:38 UTC
      Expiration Date:03-Feb-2010 16:51:37 UTC
      Sponsoring Registrar:Vitalwerks Internet Solutions, LLC / No-IP.com
      Registrant Name:Austin, Chad
      Registrant Organization:
      Registrant Street1:ATTN: itunesproxy.com, c/o No-IP.com Registration Privacy
      Registrant Street2:P.O. Box 18797
      Registrant City:Reno
      Registrant State/Province:NV
      Registrant Postal Code:89511
      Registrant Country:US
      Registrant Phone:+1.7758531883
      Registrant FAX:
      Registrant Email:6646d708928830e1-312134@privacy.no-ip.com
      Admin Name:Austin, Chad
      Admin Street1:ATTN: itunesproxy.com, c/o No-IP.com Registration Privacy
      Admin Street2:P.O. Box 18797
      Admin City:Reno
      Admin State/Province:NV
      Admin Postal Code:89511
      Admin Country:US
      Admin Phone:+1.7758531883
      Admin FAX:
      Admin Email:6646d708928830e1-312134@privacy.no-ip.com

    5. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You fail at understanding DNS'es. Please get out and leave your nerd card at the door.

    6. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Hognoxious · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Almost as much as you fail at apostrophe's

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How should it be written? Not everyone uses english as their primary language and apostrophes in english, when used with acryonyms, always confuses me.

    8. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Christopher+Woods · · Score: 1

      I like that itunesproxy.com was registered today and is currently pointing to 1.3.3.7. So, which brave soul is going to go up against the might of Apple's legal department and help people circumvent geographical licensing restrictions? :D

      --
      10 print hello world 20 goto 10
    9. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if u want the domain I can point it anywhere, I am not brave enough to go up against apple.

    10. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by robogobo · · Score: 0

      Plus you get knocked down a letter grade for a comma splice.

    11. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by ace123 · · Score: 1

      hehe, someone was having fun...

      PING itunesproxy.com (216.34.181.45) 56(84) bytes of data.
      64 bytes from slashdot.org (216.34.181.45): icmp_seq=1 ttl=242 time=83.9 ms

    12. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DNS is not something you need to pluralise anyway. "You fail at understanding DNS" (or possibly 'the DNS') would be better.

      Apostrophes should not be used for plurals, but it is considered acceptable by some to include it if the trailing s would get confused with the acronym. I personally would just change case: DNSs

    13. Re:Quick someone register itunesproxy.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DNS is an initialism, not an acronym.

  2. US and Canada? by geek2k5 · · Score: 0

    Is Canada included in that?

    1. Re:US and Canada? by geekoid · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes, Canada is still outside the US...for now~

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:US and Canada? by rock56501 · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked, Canada is outside of the US. Although, I haven't read the ToS (who does) so I couldn't tell you if there is an exception for Canada.

    3. Re:US and Canada? by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Informative

      No idea, but it's something you don't have to worry about if you get your media from other sources that don't keep on putting up artificial barriers...

    4. Re:US and Canada? by ducomputergeek · · Score: 3, Funny

      Meh, let them keep it. It half full of French anyway....

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    5. Re:US and Canada? by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Funny

      The TOS specifically mentions the annexation of Canada.

      It's official people.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:US and Canada? by Daniel+Weis · · Score: 5, Funny

      By French, I'll assume you mean freedom.

    7. Re:US and Canada? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      The TOS specifically mentions the annexation of Canada.

      Apple annexed Canada? Just wow. I didn't know that had that much cash on hand.

      Well, congrats Steve.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re:US and Canada? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as China doesn't annex Alaska in response, we should be fine.

    9. Re:US and Canada? by denarii · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, no, it's Russia that wants to annex Alaska.

      Fortunately, we have Palin standing on the coast up there keeping a close eye on them.

    10. Re:US and Canada? by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 1

      Yes, Canada is still outside the US...for now~
      Played a little too much Fallout 3 lately?

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    11. Re:US and Canada? by Comatose51 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Shit, when did you guys managed to secede?

      --
      EvilCON - Made Famous by /.
    12. Re:US and Canada? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Whoooosh, haven't you read the rest of this subthread?

      Also, we won that campaign, IIRC.

    13. Re:US and Canada? by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Our dedicated boys in the newly annexed Canada...

      Fallout 1995 :-)

    14. Re:US and Canada? by Reapman · · Score: 1

      Considering I just tried downloading two free app's and was told I was not allowed to "purchase" the free app from the Canadian store, I'm sure Canada is excluded here too.

      One was a drinks and cocktails recipe sorta thing and another equally as odd.. why the hell would an app like that get blocked? I KINDA get stuff like Pandora being blocked (same with Hulu and such on the web)... but how does free lowkey apps fit in?

    15. Re:US and Canada? by Zwicky · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pessimist!

      I prefer to think it half empty of French.

      --
      "Three eyes are better than one" -- Lieutenant Columbo
    16. Re:US and Canada? by tsalmark · · Score: 1

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I like funny random line endings used by 10 people each.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    17. Re:US and Canada? by powerlord · · Score: 1

      Pessimist!

      I prefer to think it half empty of French.

      Considering that a lot of the English speaking Canadians fled Quebec over the past decade or so ...

      It more a case of "French Canada is Half Empty".

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    18. Re:US and Canada? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit, when did you guys managed to secede?

      I'm not sure, but it might have been sometime around when you guys elected someone who actually has a clue, while we went and elected someone who has no clue whatsoever.

      A strange reversal, that.

    19. Re:US and Canada? by sabernet · · Score: 1

      I just downloaded a free app and I'm in Nova-Scotia and not behind any proxy.

      I also purchased an app earlier this afternoon.

      Maybe it's only certain apps?

    20. Re:US and Canada? by Reapman · · Score: 1

      Yes sorry that's what I ment, it is only specific apps, but I don't see WHY these specific apps are being blocked. I have downloaded lots of stuff, but once in awhile (more recently now) I'm getting blocked for apps that it doesn't make sense. I get the movie thing since there's rights and such, but how to make a cocktail? Who cares who reads that in the world, especially considering it's free.

    21. Re:US and Canada? by Jabbrwokk · · Score: 1

      I couldn't tell you if there is an exception for Canada.

      Don't bet on it. The iTunes store for Canada sucks (for video, anyway). Choices are severely limited from major American networks. It's almost enough to make a guy get off the computer and go outside.

      Hooray for copyright laws, and protectionist governments that bow to every whim of the entertainment industry! Soon to be celebrated for helping make Canadians the most fit of all G8 nation citizens!

    22. Re:US and Canada? by sabernet · · Score: 1

      I think what's happening is the application developers don't globally distribute the app and, so, Apple obliges.

      I'm not saying I agree with that philosophy(I think borders in software is a silly thing indeed), but imagine you release DeCSS for the iPhone(forget about how impractical that would be for one moment). That app is illegal in the US due to the DCMA. Yet it's legal in Canada(at least for now). So you dist it out to Canada but not the US to protect your legal arse.

      As much as I'll blame Apple for many things, I can't really blame them if a developer forgets to check off "global" unless Apple does this censoring themselves.

      Can any app developers shed light on whether the regions are controlled at the developer or corporate level?

    23. Re:US and Canada? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's official then ... Canadians are now officially stylish but pointless.

    24. Re:US and Canada? by lucifig · · Score: 1

      It only cost like $140 American dollars.

    25. Re:US and Canada? by Plekto · · Score: 1

      Apple annexed Canada? Just wow. I didn't know that had that much cash on hand.
      ****

      Yes, that seems a bit of a stretch. OTOH, Iceland might actually be another story...

    26. Re:US and Canada? by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 1

      I believe it was the US that seceded from Canada.

    27. Re:US and Canada? by Reapman · · Score: 1

      I'd be curious to know too. If it was something like DeCSS I wouldn't even bat an eye, same with Pandora radio not being available up here. But the two app's (one grabs wallpapers off the web, I really didn't care much about it since it's just a glorified frontend to what you can do in the browser anyways) and a drink program just made me go HMMMMMMMMM. These aren't dealbreakers, but it's just repeatedly annoying seeing all of these "free" things blocked (same with Hulu) simply because I'm on this side of the border..

      I hope it's something like they didn't specify global, as apposed to being blocked for some silly political reason.

    28. Re:US and Canada? by ATMD · · Score: 1

      In that case, I content that it's twice as big as it needs to be.

      --
      Nobody else has this sig.
    29. Re:US and Canada? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If only General Wolfe had finished the job...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    30. Re:US and Canada? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      but how to make a cocktail? Who cares who reads that in the world

      The Iranians?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    31. Re:US and Canada? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      There are several issues. First, that media tax means stopping pirates is harder in Canada... they have slightly shorter copyrights (refused to protect the Mouse).. and the blank media tax goes to Canadian companies not USA ones.

      Second, They have a saner company environment, I'd be sure they don't allow "hollywood accounting". Also, they have weaker actor/director/etc unions (but their actors get free health care! and ours don't) and many Hollywood unions prohibit work there. (They hold grudges a long time.. even George Lucas can't film on US soil using "union" actors because he went "non-union" on Star Wars squeals!) That's why our favorite shows like Stargate weren't affected by the writer's strike in Hollywood in 2007. But the other companies won't do business in Canada because of it.

      Also, Canada has "Canadian content" rules in place for TV and radio... so they don't end up becoming "just another" US state. That means there's a limited market for only a few US shows per week, hence they don't want to sell them on video until they have sold TV/PPV rights first, which may take a while.

    32. Re:US and Canada? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now if only someone would tell Palin which coast faces towards Russia...

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    33. Re:US and Canada? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Quebec can either remain independent, or we can give it to France.

      We'll take all the other provinces, especially the western ones with all the oil shale.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    34. Re:US and Canada? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      You could just move to the U.S. then you can get access to everything worth watching.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    35. Re:US and Canada? by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      Help!

      The chrome!

      It's... it's all around me!

      I can't escape it!

      ARRRRGGGGGHHHH

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    36. Re:US and Canada? by Trogre · · Score: 1

      I think you mean North Montana.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    37. Re:US and Canada? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that media tax means stopping pirates is harder in Canada...

      No, that media tax means that in Canada individuals who download music for their own personal use are not pirates.

    38. Re:US and Canada? by Comatose51 · · Score: 1

      Touche! Fair enough.

      I think a mod took my joke too seriously.

      --
      EvilCON - Made Famous by /.
    39. Re:US and Canada? by Jabbrwokk · · Score: 1

      That would require getting up.

      If I really cared there are ways around limitations on downloading by country, specifically IP identification.

    40. Re:US and Canada? by ps2os2 · · Score: 1

      Well the dollar (both US and Canadian) are at all times low. If I were a betting person Steve just called up his old friend Obama and had him print an extra trillion or so. Hey they deserve at least a 20 percent tip:)

    41. Re:US and Canada? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which means around 2.50â.

    42. Re:US and Canada? by NoStrings · · Score: 1

      I live in Canada, and have both a Canadian and US iTunes account. I just downloaded something from the US iTunes store and had to agree to the new terms of service. The download worked fine.

      As far as I can tell, the terms of service (for the US store, anyway) no longer allow you to use a credit card from a foreign bank. You can still make purchases if you use pre-paid iTunes cards, as long as those cards were purchased in the US.

  3. HA HA HA HA by jhfry · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I bet that the poster of this article is exploring his options, after all, he's not allow to purchase his media legally, so perhaps he would be better served by a free alternative?

    I am sure Apple did it only to make someone else happy (labels, investors, foreign governments, us government, etc...) however, it's ridiculous to suggest that this will do anything but increase piracy.

    --
    Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
    1. Re:HA HA HA HA by xch13fx · · Score: 0

      Neither country you're in has a way to charge a tariff would be my guess...

    2. Re:HA HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet that the poster of this article is exploring his options, after all, he's not allow to purchase his media legally, so perhaps he would be better served by a free alternative?

      Personally, I'd suggest looking to see if Spotify is available in his country by now.
      Think of it as Pandora/Oldschool Napster/iTunes combined.

      Free, ad supported (optional subscription to get rid of the ads) streaming music.
      Current library of roughly 2M songs, with the big labels already in on it, independents being added "all the time", and a library that grows by roughly 10k songs per day.

    3. Re:HA HA HA HA by repvik · · Score: 4, Informative

      You know Spotify has done the same? A fair bit of music is unavailable in several countries due to licensing issues.
      This isn't Apple, Spotify or any stores fault. It's the music business.
      Yay for making it easy for consumers to buy music.

    4. Re:HA HA HA HA by conares · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I am sure Apple did it only to make someone else happy (labels, investors, foreign governments, us government, etc...) however, it's ridiculous to suggest that this will do anything but increase piracy.

      Wow do you think pirates are that sensitive? That they would hijack more boats and kill more ppl? And just because Apple doesnt want to sell them music? They must get really lonely at sea... those poor pirates.

      --
      That, that really grinds my gears!
    5. Re:HA HA HA HA by linhares · · Score: 4, Funny

      YES I AM BRAZILIAN INFERIOR HUMAN BEING and I had one account with a US address and an itunes card. Shit, I fucking said yes to the EULA or SLA when prompted. GOD DAMN YOU, APPLE! Now I can get no new apps for my iPhone. Oh well, just one more thing: GOD DAMN YOU APPLE! I'm just switching to Android as soon as it's available here in Banana Republics.

    6. Re:HA HA HA HA by blhack · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      This isn't Apple, Spotify or any stores fault. It's the music business.

      The apple apologists need to seriously STFU with this "it isn't apple's fault!" nonsense. They're partners. Apple is not some holy child that hath cometh down from the mountain to bestow upon the unwashed masses all that is holy and good.

      They're a profit-finding company. The DRM serves their profit-driven interests. Bought that song on your computer at work? Want to listen to it on your computer at home? Well guess what, charlie, unless you find some obscure bullshit setting in some hidden window in some far off corner of some far off menu in iTunes, $1 more shall go to the Steve.
      "BUttttt BUTTT!!!! It's the MUSSSIC company's fault!!1 Aplle can do know rong!!"
      Guess what, jackass, apple represents one of, if not THE, largest marketplace for selling music. They have very effectively situated themselves in a position that makes them almost irreplaceable. Why do you think people don't use amazon? Or why yahoo failed? Or why microsoft's VASTLY superior subscription model is ignored? Do any of you people ever pull your head out of your asshole for long enough to realize that maybe, JUST MAYBE that company that is constantly boasting record profit and record stock growth might. just. MAYBE be after your wallet?

      Apple is in the same position as wal-mart. Wal-mart goes to manufacturing companies and tells them to start making their packages smaller so that they will save money on diesel fuel. Guess what happens? They do it. They do it because if wal-mart stops selling their goods, they're going to take a major hit in the wallet.

      Apple is NOT on your side. Get over it.

      --
      NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
    7. Re:HA HA HA HA by repvik · · Score: 1, Informative

      What post did you read? Even if Apple excerts pressure on the various companies in the US, it doesn't help them a shit abroad.
      Let me rephrase my earlier statement: A song that is licenced by Warner in the USA isn't necessarily under Warner licence in other countries. So when iTMS has an agreement with Warner in the US to sell that music, they cannot necessarily sell it in a different country because Warner may not actually have that licence.
      This has absolutely zip to do with DRM, and a lot to do with licencing.

    8. Re:HA HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Why exactly is the parents incoherent rambling modded "Insightful"? The GP wasn't saying anything about DRM, but was talking about international licensing issues.

    9. Re:HA HA HA HA by FerociousFerret · · Score: 5, Informative

      Bought that song on your computer at work? Want to listen to it on your computer at home? Well guess what, charlie, unless you find some obscure bullshit setting in some hidden window in some far off corner of some far off menu in iTunes, $1 more shall go to the Steve.

      What??!?!? Do you not know how to transfer a file from one computer to another??? Find the file in your music library, email it to yourself or put it on a thumb drive or whatever, and load it on your home computer. When prompted, input your iTMS account info to get the DRM key to play the file (that is assuming you used a different iTMS account on your work computer than your home computer). Seriously, this "obscure bullshit setting in some hidden window" is just stupid talk.

    10. Re:HA HA HA HA by yankeessuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How a post loaded with such baseless vitriol could be modded as insightful instead of flamebait is beyond my comprehension. Let's all just go ahead and continue to believe in old and tired dogmas despite credible evidence that the Steve Jobs you hate so much successfully pushed the labels to remove DRM from iTunes music on Christmas Eve. Who needs to STFU now?

    11. Re:HA HA HA HA by Yaztromo · · Score: 3, Informative

      The DRM serves their profit-driven interests. Bought that song on your computer at work? Want to listen to it on your computer at home? Well guess what, charlie, unless you find some obscure bullshit setting in some hidden window in some far off corner of some far off menu in iTunes, $1 more shall go to the Steve.

      What complete and total ass-hattery.

      1. Copying protected iTunes Music from Work to Home only ever required a one-time registration of your home computer, by selecting "Store -> Authorize Computer" from the iTunes menus. iTunes has always allowed you to authorize up to five systems in this way. Once authorized, you can copy the music files between these systems at will. Hardly "obscure" -- it isn't even "buried" in a sub-menu.
      2. Perhaps you missed the announcement -- Apple announced the removal of DRM from all its music files by April 2009, with a significant quantity of their library already DRM free on the day of the announcement, nearly a month ago.

      So if DRM serves their profit-driven interests, what does the removal of DRM from every song they sell in the iTunes Store serve in your twisted version of reality?

      Now please wipe the foam from your mouth. Yes, Apple exists to make a profit. It seems to me that they do so by making products that people want to own for themselves, and by being an advocate for their customers in their dealings with other companies.

      BTW, Microsoft's subscription model (which is way heavier on DRM than iTunes ever was) is virtually ignored because most people consider it vastly inferior. Who wants to pay a fee each and every month to listen to music, only to lose all their music should they stop paying? How many times do you feel the need to pay for that copy of Baba O'Riley anyway?

      Yaz.

    12. Re:HA HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's an interesting question: where does the sale actually take place? The computer that downloads the song may be outside the US, but his billing addresss is in the US, and his credit card from the US. Maybe he's paying with a gift card bought with US Dollars in the US. Why is the sale assumed to take place outside the US?

    13. Re:HA HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Oh, please. Apple is not Wall-Mart (Wal-Mart? sp?). Their influence & power only goes so far. If they were so powerful, they would have managed to get the labels to drop the DRM requirement a long time ago. And they would have managed to resist the multi-level pricing scheme (sorry if this is not the right expression, english is not my native language).

      Whilst Apple is not completely powerless against the labels, it cannot simply ignore what the labels want. Nor can it ignore the licensing nightmare that prevents song A to be sold in country X, but permits its sale in country Y. (One example: try to get FNAC to sell music from Saint-Preux to you if you live outside of France. Not CDs, but WMA music files. Oh, and don't get me started on this "partial album" idiocy.)

      We all know Apple is ultimately in it to make money. But it had the most reasonable DRM scheme out there, the lesser evil compared to what Redmond & the labels was pushing for. Apple is not perfect, but IMO, they were closer to the consumers than other companies. Even though they were/are not perfect.

      tmp31416

    14. Re:HA HA HA HA by gollito · · Score: 1

      Man I wish I had mod points. Well said

    15. Re:HA HA HA HA by IKnwThePiecesFt · · Score: 1

      It's not exactly obscure... the first time you go to play a song that's not been authorized on your computer it pops a prompt asking you if you want to authorize that computer.

      But hey, who needs accuracy on the internet when you've got flamebait, right?

    16. Re:HA HA HA HA by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Why do you think people don't use amazon?

      [citation needed]

    17. Re:HA HA HA HA by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      BTW, Microsoft's subscription model (which is way heavier on DRM than iTunes ever was) is virtually ignored because most people consider it vastly inferior. Who wants to pay a fee each and every month to listen to music, only to lose all their music should they stop paying? How many times do you feel the need to pay for that copy of Baba O'Riley anyway?

      Have you ever heard of satellite radio?

      More directly, it seems to me like a subscription model isn't as silly a choice as you make it to be, if implemented right. Basically, with the buy-a-copy model, you pay for each track or album separately, so your cost goes up the more track or albums you buy, but you get to listen to them forever. In various versions of the subscription model, your cost is fixed independently of how many different tracks you listen to, but you only get to listen as long as your subscription is current.

      And more importantly, since these models aren't mutually exclusive, you could have a subscription service that allows you to listen to anything you want on the service, but also to buy permanent copies of what you really would like to keep after your subscription lapses.

    18. Re:HA HA HA HA by tsa · · Score: 1

      They do it in Europe too. As an inhabitant of the Netherlands Aplle does not allow me to buy something from the German iTMS. I can, however, drive to Gronau in 15 min., buy the same music on CD there, and take it home over the border with no legal issues. What Apple does in the EU is in fact illegal, and the EC has been investigating this for the past three years or so, I guess. Knowing the amazing speed of the EC I think we can expect a verdict somewhere around 2012.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    19. Re:HA HA HA HA by geekoid · · Score: 1

      umm, be careful. Be sure the phone you get has all the features ready to go that the phone can do.
      As someone who had an iPod touch, played with iPhone and decided to get the g1 Android and it clearly lacks polish. Plus it wasn't ready to go and waiting for tMobile to publish the Android update has been painful.

      As a developer I like it, but for most people I hesitate to recommend it. Maybe after they get the cupcake release into it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    20. Re:HA HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Removing DRM servers their profit driven interests because it helps them alienate less users. Although theyre still doing a good job with complete ass-hattery like the story posted here.

    21. Re:HA HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As of today they have a bigger library than they did before the purge; at least in Sweden.

      Pre-purge: 2.16M
      Post-purge: 1.9something M
      Right now: 2322483 songs

    22. Re:HA HA HA HA by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>GOD DAMN YOU APPLE!

      I hear you brother. I used Macs for about ten years in college and loved them, so when I bought my first Apple Ipod today I thought I'd love that too. NOPE. (1) I plugged it in my USB port, copied some songs over, and tried to play them. Nothing. (2) So I inserted my Ipod again, downloaded Itunes, waited, waited, waited, installed and then tried to use it. Why can't I see my songs on my c: drive? What? I have to "import" them first? Judas Iscariot! (3) Wait, wait, wait. Okay. Now I want to drag these 20 songs over to my Ipod: "Please wait; syncing." What's this crap and why's it taking 15 minutes? Simon Peter! Grrr. (4) FINALLY I got some songs in my Ipod and was listening to them, but the battery died 5 minutes later so I tried to pry it open to insert a fresh battery. Where's the freakin' battery slot??? ......

      Why does Apple have to make the Ipod so difficult to use? With my old Insignia/Best Buy player all I had to do was drag the songs from the C: drive to the F: drive. Done in less than a minute. And if the battery dies, it can be swapped-out with a new battery in 10 seconds. EASY.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    23. Re:HA HA HA HA by robogobo · · Score: 0

      This thread was going really nicely until you came along.

    24. Re:HA HA HA HA by syousef · · Score: 1

      1. Copying protected iTunes Music from Work to Home only ever required a one-time registration of your home computer, by selecting "Store -> Authorize Computer" from the iTunes menus. iTunes has always allowed you to authorize up to five systems in this way. Once authorized, you can copy the music files between these systems at will. Hardly "obscure" -- it isn't even "buried" in a sub-menu.

      Does that still work if you bought content previously but you're outside the US and can no longer do that?

      2.# Perhaps you missed the announcement -- Apple announced the removal of DRM from all its music files by April 2009, with a significant quantity of their library already DRM free on the day of the announcement, nearly a month ago.

      So what happens to people's prior purchases that were DRM encrypted? How long will Apple support the DRM servers? Will they replace DRM music with DRM free music when those servers go dark?

      I think there are legitimate questions here and no they're not all specific to Apple, but they are all DRM related.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    25. Re:HA HA HA HA by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      If iTMS is blocked, I wonder if prior purchases can be verified. Let me explain. As I understand it (not using iTunes), you're allowed to play your music (and videos?) on up to five different computers, and there's a "report home" requirement to make this happen. Does that requirement now fail if you are abroad, meaning that you can't copy music to a new computer?

    26. Re:HA HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any of you people still buying any music in whatever form? Stop feeding RIAA, starve them... utterly. Apple are just another of their agent minions. There's enough super music out there, used CD stores....

    27. Re:HA HA HA HA by Bake · · Score: 1

      By that logic Amazon in the US and other online retailers in the US selling physical CDs should immediately cease selling CDs to customers outside the US since they don't have distribution rights outside the US.

    28. Re:HA HA HA HA by Weedlekin · · Score: 1

      "What Apple does in the EU is in fact illegal, and the EC has been investigating this for the past three years or so, I guess."

      The EU was investigating different prices for iTunes stores in various countries, which is indeed illegal. However, the fact that the EU permits each member country to have its own media distributors and rights collection agencies means that far from it being illegal for Apple to have separate stores and sets of music for each EU member, they're actually required to do so because of the antiquated media distribution and licensing model that the EU has refused to change despite repeated requests from satellite TV companies and Internet media distributors to do so.

      "Knowing the amazing speed of the EC I think we can expect a verdict somewhere around 2012."

      The EU antitrust investigation into iTunes stores was concluded in January 2008, and resulted in a order for Apple to bring the prices charged to their UK customers in line with those for the rest of the EU. A good summary of the decision can be found at:

      http://www.cgsh.com/sony_bmg_successful_in_eu_investigation_of_apple's_itunes_platform/

      Note the last paragraph about the Commission's position on different content for different EU countries, which it says is a copyright requirement, and not therefore due to restrictive business practices on Apple's part.

      --
      I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
    29. Re:HA HA HA HA by tsa · · Score: 1

      Thank you for correcting me.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    30. Re:HA HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupid troll is stupid.

    31. Re:HA HA HA HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget to get Netflix to stream to your XBOX or PS3.

      Watch instantly kicks a$$ and beats the hell out of paying per unit like you have to in iTunes.

  4. use torrents by modustollens · · Score: 1

    Use torrents: itunes.anywhere not needed.

    1. Re:use torrents by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Funny

      He could use that service that we never speak about.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:use torrents by hedwards · · Score: 5, Funny

      The Zune store?

    3. Re:use torrents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ding ding ding.... yes, that is the one. You hit the nail on the head first shot.

    4. Re:use torrents by sabernet · · Score: 2, Informative

      Made especially funny by the fact that that storefont has never worked in Canada or elsewhere :)

    5. Re:use torrents by mgblst · · Score: 1

      You must go to a different fight club than I do.

    6. Re:use torrents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bittorent + sharepod = bliss

    7. Re:use torrents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      facepalm

  5. You are subject to laws of where you live by ducomputergeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    not where you were born. When I was an American living and working in Germany, I was subject to the laws of Germany. I couldn't download a browser with more than 40-bit encryption at the time due to export regulations. Yes I was an American citizen, but I wasn't in the united states.
    Now, if you are working on behalf of the US government at a diplomatic consulate/mission or in the military, then you may have a gripe, and I believe Apple should do something to work with you. Especially if your billing is to an APO address.

    Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    1. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.

      LOL, I think this might be the most sensible post to invoke Godwin's Law ever!

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by neuromanc3r · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.

      Bad example. It is a common misconception that Mein Kampf is illegal in Germany. You are allowed to have a copy (even though it you will probably not find a new one anywhere).

    3. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are certainly under the law of the country you live and work in. The important thing is that there is no law, at least in Germany, that forbids Apple to sell music and TV shows online.

      So whatever the reason behind this, I am quite annoyed. My girlfriend is from the US and currently working here and we watch quite a few TV shows through Itunes, that are not available here otherwise. Just guessing about the reason, it might be that they want to establish different regional prices. So instead of paying and watching we can now wait for an equivalent offer or circumvent this somehow, both options just reduce the content producers and Apple's revenue...

    4. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Corbets · · Score: 2, Informative

      For the record, you can be subject to both the laws of the country where you live and where you were born simultaneously, even if the two are not the same. ;P

      American paedophilia and tax laws come to mind...

    5. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by JustinOpinion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think the submitter is complaining that what iTunes is doing is illegal (or that he should be subject to US law while abroad). I think he is complaining that what iTunes is doing is stupid.

      He wants to be a customer. He wants to give them money. But they (iTunes, or whichever content providers require this rule) want to restrict things regionally. These regional restrictions are inconvenient, arbitrary, and illogical in an age of ubiquitous global network connectivity, and easy trans-national travel. Someone abroad can circumvent the restrictions easily with a proxy. Conversely a US citizen on a trip abroad is denied access (whereas it would have been fine if they had downloaded it while in the US and carried it on their computer on the plane). Thus it doesn't seem that the rule accomplishes its nominal goal. Actually for the most part the nominal goal isn't even clear. In short, the restrictions are silly.

      Of course it is within iTune's ability (technical and legal) to impose such restrictions. But it just seems illogical, since anywhere that the content is not available through a legitimate source (or available but only after a substantial delay) will simply increase the amount of circumvention (proxy, file sharing, etc.). So why don't these companies want the money being offered to them?

    6. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by mikael_j · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I couldn't download a browser with more than 40-bit encryption at the time due to export regulations. Yes I was an American citizen, but I wasn't in the united states.

      Actually, the law you would've broken was a US law, there's a reason lots of software that contained encryption was written in a way that allowed it to ship without the encryption, so that europeans and others could use the encryption module/plugin/component coded outside the US.

      Also, I think this move is partly to stop non-americans from getting US iTunes accounts so that they can buy movies and TV shows (yeah, are you listening Apple? We're still waiting!).

      /Mikael

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    7. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Is it itunes fault is country laws(USA Germany, France,etc) forbid such things ? Just because you Are an American doesn't give you the right to playmusic, videos, even newspapers that are banned in the country your currenrtly in.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    8. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to the state of copyright law around the world. You (and the submitter) may think that Apple is being stupid, but they're complying with the legal framework in which they operate. Whether these laws should change is another story. And even if they do change to better reflect the networked world we live in, it won't happen overnight.

    9. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So why don't these companies want the money being offered to them?

      Because regionalizing of content allows you to extract the maximum price at the market will bear in each region. At least that's what the bean counters and lawyers that come up with these schemes tell themselves.

      If a company regionalizes any service or product for any reason other than language or obvious logistics concerns, you can be pretty sure they're just trying to extract more money from the places that will pay it. Yes, they're assholes. No, I don't like it. No, it won't work that well in the long run. As we've seen time and time again though, a lot of upper management in most companies just doesn't "get" the Information Age yet.

    10. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It also is quite wrong. It is legal to own "Mein Kampf" in Germany. It is not legal to sell, give or even show it to somebody else. It is also illegal to purchase it as far as I know.
      Possession however is fine.

    11. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Wrong. In Germany as well as in Austria 'Mein Kampf' is an illegal book prohibited under laws against glorifying and identifying with the National Socialist German Workers Party.
      Only heavily commented versions are available and legal.

    12. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.

      By that logic, we should all STFU whenever these companies assist foreign governments in tracking down dissidents.

      Either natural rights exist or they don't. If they exist, then it doesn't matter what country a person is in when they are infringed.

    13. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by statusbar · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe they could hold a book burning party

      --jeffk++

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    14. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by kwerle · · Score: 2, Informative

      not where you were born. When I was an American living and working in Germany, I was subject to the laws of Germany. I couldn't download a browser with more than 40-bit encryption at the time due to export regulations...

      Couldn't download it *from the US*.

    15. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is solely to adhere to the fact that different parties (i.e. record labels, film studios, distributors, etc) regularly secure distribution rights based on a specific territory. For example, the Sci Fi Channel/NBC Universal has distribution rights for Battlestar Galactica in the USA, but not in Canada. If BSG isn't in the Canadian iTunes Store, don't blame Sci Fi, blame Space, who has the Canadian distribution rights. End of story.

      Perhaps all of this will go away one day but for now, the selling of distribution rights remains a major part of film/TV studio's and record label's businesses.

    16. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, the grandparent sorta jumped tracks there.

      The issue is that Apple doesn't have a license to distribute in Germany. It's not German law, it's international law (copyrights via the Berne Convention.)

      The short of it is that distribution is a right which is automatically reserved by default to the copyright holder. The copyright holder, then, can authorize another party to distribute--and they can put terms on it. Generally, the terms include regions where they can distribute the material. Again, it's not a matter of to whom they're distributing--it's a matter of where they're distributing. If Apple hasn't paid for the right to sell music in Germany, then they aren't allowed to sell music to people in Germany (regardless of citizenship.)

    17. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not the country that you were born in. It's the country of your citizenship.

    18. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by rbphilip · · Score: 1

      Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.

      Which immediately brought to my mind the question: "Can't you have a copy of Mein Kampf if you live in Germany?"....

    19. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by filthpickle · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, it breaks down like this: it's illegal to buy it, it's legal to own it but, if you're the proprietor of a kampf bar, it's legal to sell it. It's legal to carry it, which doesn't really matter 'cause â" get a load of this â" if the cops stop you, it's illegal for them to search you.

    20. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Wrong. But sure, that's Wikipedia saying that, so the AC must be saying the truth.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    21. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by professionalfurryele · · Score: 1

      Thats right, welcome to the 21st century where multinationals go out of their way to regionalise and decomoditise what they sell, while globalising and comoditising what you sell.

      You'll be competing with Indian and Chineese workers as far as labour goes (with generic requirements), but don't worry you will still be paying western prices for goods and services, all of which will lock you in to a specific vendor.

      Mercantilism, it's back baby, except this time instead of governments, it's corporations!

    22. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by muuh-gnu · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is neither of those. The copyright to mein kampf and other Nazi works fell to the state of bavaria, which by copyright simply doesnt allow any copying of mein kampf and hasnt since the second world war. If you happen to have one of the old copies from the WW2, or you bought it a state that doesnt reckognize avarias copyright on it, youre perfectly fine to do anything you want with it. Of course, there are several anti-nazi-agitation laws and selling the book on ebay may invoke some of those laws, but theres nothing specific to this one book and applies to all nazi memorabilia.

    23. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by linhares · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the state of copyright law around the world. You (and the submitter) may think that Apple is being stupid, but they're complying with the legal framework in which they operate. Whether these laws should change is another story. And even if they do change to better reflect the networked world we live in, it won't happen overnight.

      O RLY?

      So why does Google give a big FUCK YOU to book publishers or MIAA/MPAA in youtube?

      Apple does as it does not because of copyright; they have the clout to fight that shit; they just don't want to do it while they can fuck their customers instead.

    24. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by zotz · · Score: 2, Funny

      What happens if you mention Godwin and not Hitler?

      drew

      --
      FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
    25. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.

      Wow, quick way to invoke Godwin's law. :)

      Nevertheless I can not help to point out that "Mein Kampf" is not illegal in Germany. It is perfectly legal to own and sell the book - as long as it is printed before 1945. Because after 1945 the copyright of "Mein Kampf" came to the state of Bavaria, who does not allow reprints. Of course that's for political reasons, but still it is a copyright issue, not due to some law stating that "Mein Kampf" is illegal. It will be inetresting what happens when the copyright ends 2015, 70 years after the death of the author. :)

    26. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He wants to be a customer. He wants to give them money. But they (iTunes, or whichever content providers require this rule) want to restrict things regionally.

      In some cases yes, in many cases its not that they WANT to restrict things, its that they HAVE to.

      If Warner owns song X in the US, and Sony owns it Brazil, then no matter how much Warner wants to sell you the song in Brazil they CAN'T. And if Sony owns it but doesn't want to sell it, or wants to sell it but charge more than Warner, that's life. Warner can't do squat about it except say, hey, come to the US and buy a copy while you are actually here.

      In the case I describe Warner isn't trying to restrict things regionally, but don't own the rights to distribute the song in Brazil, and someone else does, so they just can't.

    27. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      I dont agree that upper management doesnt "get" the information age. Instead, they understand it plenty, knowing that they can bilk extra money out of unsuspecting fools who dont use sites like ThePirateBay.

      Yes, there are strong copyright laws, but they are a restriction to free trade, which exists in the numerous pirate hubs and sneakernets and darknets. Because of that, digital media will always approach 0 in cost, regardless how much cost was incurred in making that media. That's just capitalism in action, folks.

      --
    28. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Freultwah · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Do you realise that you just paraphrased the famous John Travolta quote re: pot from Pulp Fiction?

    29. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      I don't think you would have broken any German laws by downloading a 41bit browser. And I don't think you would have broken the US export laws if you downloaded your 41bit browser from a country other than the US. For example one of the Russian plugins that were available for Netscape at the time, or where an American company printed out the source code, mailed it to Europe and had it scanned in and re-compiled.

    30. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and tell me who lobbied for these laws?

    31. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why don't these companies want the money being offered to them?

      it may surprise you, but it could be because they are obliged to keep their contract promises they made to the copyright holders about distribution.

      if it's a good idea to have local licensing or not is a different question altogether, but it has hardly anything to do with the itunes store.
       

    32. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by operator_error · · Score: 1

      Um, there's a difference between the German populace, and the Nazi political party.

      The Nazies are a political-subset that rose to (excruciating) power for a limited amounted of time. However the German people are forever; let them live in peace, as shall we.

      By and large, the modern German people are very humane, and have chosen to absolve themselves from their nazi-overlord-past/predecessors.

    33. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of apple is stupid. Good thing for them there's a lot of stupid people...

    34. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Wow, where did that come from... did you mean to reply to some other post?

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    35. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Hatta · · Score: 1

      This is easy enough to work around. If Warner owns the copyright to song X in the US, and Sony owns it in Brazil, make the copy here in the US. Then export that copy to Brazil. Exporting the copy over the internet as opposed to the mail shouldn't matter.

      If song X is out of copyright in Europe, but under copyright in the US, there's nothing stopping me from paying you to legally make a copy and ship it to me. Same thing here.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    36. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by mapsjanhere · · Score: 1

      The big thing is that most printings of Mein Kampf have swastikas on them - and advertising or showing those Nazi icons is prohibited. Which is why you shouldn't buy plastic airplane models from Germany - the decals are either removed or liberally dotted with black dots.
      The copyright thing doesn't work anymore, MK was originally published more than 75 years ago, and it's more than 50 years after the death of the author.

      --
      I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
    37. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by bjohnson · · Score: 1

      whooooooshhhhh!

    38. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by accendo · · Score: 1

      This is the same quibble I have with audible.com I have subscribed to their site. I want to be a customer and I want to give them money. But they don't want to sell me some of their books based on the fact that I live in Brazil.

    39. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I have a right to import CDs and DVDs by law. Parallel importing is a guaranteed right here in Australia, hence why DVD players are region free and modchips are legal. You don't even pay taxes on parallel imports under $1000 here (because our Government believes in free trade, rather than just pretending to).

      So, why can't I "parallel import" digital music? Surely it's no different to importing a CD?

      Disallowing imports would be an illegal restraint of trade (as DVD region locking was ruled to be).

    40. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      If Warner owns song X in the US, and Sony owns it Brazil, then no matter how much Warner wants to sell you the song in Brazil they CAN'T. And if Sony owns it but doesn't want to sell it, or wants to sell it but charge more than Warner, that's life. Warner can't do squat about it except say, hey, come to the US and buy a copy while you are actually here.

      The thing that bothers me about this argument is that there is no law against me, in the USA, ordering music from a store in Brazil over the mail, and them delivering the product over the mail. I don't know Brazilian law, but I would guess they don't have any laws like that either. So I'm skeptical that a label in the USA would violate their agreements by allowing iTunes, based in the USA, to sell music online to foreigners.

      So it's not about iTunes being restricted by the labels' agreements, but rather, the labels not wanting the purpose of their agreements (local market monopolies) to be undermined by the potential global reach of services like iTunes.

    41. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by vux984 · · Score: 1

      This is easy enough to work around. If Warner owns the copyright to song X in the US, and Sony owns it in Brazil, make the copy here in the US. Then export that copy to Brazil. Exporting the copy over the internet as opposed to the mail shouldn't matter.

      That is called 'grey market product', and while not actually illegal is really only viable for small companies/entrepreneurs who are effectively immune from retaliation. If apple were to try 'exporting' Warner tracks to Brazil where Sony has the rights, then Sony will simply retaliate against Apple by denying Apple the license to ANY of its music anywhere which would hurt Apple far more than what they gain by exporting warner tracks into brazil, where sony is the authorized distributor.

      If song X is out of copyright in Europe, but under copyright in the US, there's nothing stopping me from paying you to legally make a copy and ship it to me. Same thing here.

      Right. It works on the individual scale, even the small business scale. But large multinationals can't get away with it because they typically have relationships with all of the parties, and the benefit they get from legally stepping on someones toes results in legal retaliation that makes it not worth it.

    42. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by vux984 · · Score: 1

      The thing that bothers me about this argument is that there is no law against me, in the USA, ordering music from a store in Brazil over the mail, and them delivering the product over the mail. I don't know Brazilian law, but I would guess they don't have any laws like that either.

      See my other response in this thread. Your right, its not usually illegal. Its called 'grey market'. And there is nothing -legally- stopping anyone.

      The reason a store in Brazil might not ship you the CD isn't legal, its contractual. If they are a small store and interested in taking your money, they will. If they are a large store, they probably have signed agreements with their suppliers in exchange for preferential pricing that would restrict them from doing so... so if they sent you the CD, and got caught, they risk losing their preferential pricing. So its not just not worth it for them to make a few extra bucks on the side.

      Small businesses are unlikely to have real relationships with the music publishers, and unlikely to have preferential pricing deals that are at risk, and are unlikely to attract much notice, so they can get away with it.

      Suppose Apple decided to export songs in contradiction with the publishers wishers:
      1) they do have contractual relationships with all those publishers
      2) need those contracts to do business at all
      3) iTunes is high profile

      If apple engaged in the grey market Apple would quickly find itself without any songs to distribute at all.

    43. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have a slight suspicion he might be a German.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    44. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It will be inetresting what happens when the copyright ends 2015, 70 years after the departure to Brazil of the author.

      Ich habe das gefixiert fuer Sie!

      (How the fuck do you do umlauts in this pile of cunting shit?)

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    45. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      Wrong. In Germany as well as in Austria 'Mein Kampf' is an illegal book prohibited under laws against glorifying and identifying with the National Socialist German Workers Party.

      It may or may not be subject to the laws you've mentioned, but you're talking bollocks if you suggesting that that's the reason that only versions with a commentary are available. Oh look! Here's a copy of a 1939 edition of Mein Kampf being held legally in Germany.

      The main reason you can't get it in other forms is simply that it's under copyright. In the library catalogue link above, notice the line saying "Keine Kopien möglich"? In Germany and Austria, as elsewhere in the EU, the copyright term on a book is life-plus-70 years. Therefore, it becomes public domain in 2015, and you will then be entitled to reproduce it and sell it in whatever form you damn well please. (Though at the time Hitler died I believe it was life-plus-80 years; I'm not sure if the change to life-plus-70 is retroactive or not.)

      The copyright on the English translation has lapsed, which is why it's more readily available in English. A quick search shows that German bookshops don't carry the English translation either, but there's hardly much reason why they would.

    46. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.

      Actually, *owning* "Mein Kampf" is perfectly legal in Germany.

    47. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Available for purchase, yes.

      But "legal to buy" and "legal to own" are two different things.

    48. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by syousef · · Score: 1

      It also is quite wrong. It is legal to own "Mein Kampf" in Germany. It is not legal to sell, give or even show it to somebody else. It is also illegal to purchase it as far as I know.
      Possession however is fine.

      No! Don't read that! It's "Mein Kampf" not "Yourn Kampf"!

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    49. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Swampash · · Score: 1

      Give it up for the record-company system, people! Look how it benefits us all!

    50. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by tkw954 · · Score: 1

      For the record, you can be subject to both the laws of the country where you live and where you were born simultaneously, even if the two are not the same. ;P American paedophilia and tax laws come to mind...

      Or other countries entirely. Just ask Marc Emery.

    51. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      see what happens when you over-format? it comes out as crap.

      slow down and preview.

    52. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Thomas+Shaddack · · Score: 1

      Was there a German law that would make it illegal for you to use a proxy in the US to download said 128-bit SSL browser?

    53. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by stompertje · · Score: 1

      Ehm, the fact that you couldn't download a browser with 128-bit encryption is, as you said, due to US export regulations. You were, in that sense, subject to US laws. I don't think the German law prohibited you from downloading American encryption software.

    54. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by bentcd · · Score: 1

      It is neither of those. The copyright to mein kampf and other Nazi works fell to the state of bavaria, which by copyright simply doesnt allow any copying of mein kampf and hasnt since the second world war.

      If you want to read Norway's copyright law with malicious intent, Mein Kampf is automatically illegal here because "Even if the term of protection of copyright has expired, a literary, scientific or artistic work may not be made available to the public in a manner or in a context which is prejudicial to the author's literary, scientific or artistic reputation or individuality, or to the reputation or individuality of the work itself, or which may otherwise be considered harmful to general cultural interests." (para 48 of Norwegian copyright law)
      And it is easy to conclude that there is absolutely no way to make Mein Kampf available to the public that is not prejudicial to the author's reputation, on all three counts listed :-)

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    55. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The big thing is that most printings of Mein Kampf have swastikas on them - and advertising or showing those Nazi icons is prohibited.

      Much less than you seem to think. You can see it actually quite a lot in Germany - books, movies, on TV. (eg.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f03Hr6M7sc ). In fact, the "original" (pre-1945) editions of "Mein Kampf" are the ones which are legal, because they are the ones which do not violate copyright.

      The copyright thing doesn't work anymore, MK was originally published more than 75 years ago, and it's more than 50 years after the death of the author.

      So what? It's more than 50 years after his death, but less than 70 years. And the copyright expires 70 years after the death of the author in Germany.

    56. Re:You are subject to laws of where you live by daybot · · Score: 1

      If Warner owns song X in the US, and Sony owns it Brazil, then no matter how much Warner wants to sell you the song in Brazil they CAN'T. And if Sony owns it but doesn't want to sell it, or wants to sell it but charge more than Warner, that's life. Warner can't do squat about it except say, hey, come to the US and buy a copy while you are actually here.

      That's exactly it. The extent to which the music industry is outdated goes far beyond anti-Internet boardroom sentiment. This "Warner owns song in US, Sony owns it in Brazil" mess is deeply ingrained in the industry and, although measures such as the one in TFA shows they're trying to resist, in reality this model just doesn't fit in today's world.

      Several artists are self-releasing and I hope this trend will continue. Artists can have hit songs with iTunes and other online merchants without any involvement from record labels. They just need these ingredients:

      • Some talent (or at least charisma and good looks).
      • Hype generator - previously $$$ on marketing, now MySpace, YouTube etc.
      • Instruments and a computer to record, mix and edit songs. Expensive software not essential. Studio not necessary - can be done in bedroom, especially dance music.
      • Video camera for YouTube and simple music videos. Again, doesn't have to be expensive.
  6. Don't feel special by chrism238 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Similarly, Australians traveling overseas cannot access (their money in) the Australian iTunes store. Don't feel special.

    1. Re:Don't feel special by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      As someone who has visited Australia several times over the past few years, I'm wondering why the Aussies would want to travel overseas.

      Bored with the moderate weather in NSW? Move to QLD.
      Bored with the stoner culture around southern coastal QLD? Move to SA.
      Want better wines? Move to WA.
      Want to get away from civilization? Move to the NT.
      Want to get away from the oppressive heat? Move to Victoria.

      Feeling REALLY interested and want to travel to strange and exotic lands?
      Well, there's always Tazmania.

    2. Re:Don't feel special by Grimbleton · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the US to me.

    3. Re:Don't feel special by Fex303 · · Score: 1

      Want to get away from the oppressive heat? Move to Victoria.

      Hmmm... You haven't been here lately have you?

      We've just had the worst heatwave on record down here. Three consecutive days of 43C (110F) temperatures were just the beginning of our problems.

    4. Re:Don't feel special by ZzzzSleep · · Score: 1

      Get away from the oppressive heat in Victoria? Not likely if you were here in the last week or so. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1876299,00.html

    5. Re:Don't feel special by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Bored with the stoner culture around southern coastal QLD? Move to SA.

      Had to laugh at this line, SA had had the most liberal laws towards dope of any state in Australia. At various times, it was not illegal to grow 12 plants, but it might be only 3 plants. All you would get would be an on the spot fine for possession. No criminal record.

      And there are plenty of reasons to travel, you don't realise how great Australia is until you visit other countries (just kidding, I love travelling outside of Australia, well worth the 10 hour flight to get anywhere.)

    6. Re:Don't feel special by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Victorian the heat was more oppressive in Victoria and South Australia than in the Northern states. We had 3 days in a row over 43 degrees C the last day was 45.5 (temperatures in Melbourne which is a near the sea.

      Electrical systems were failing due to the increased demand and the built up heat in the system HV Transformers were failing all over the place.

      Oh and it's spelt Tasmania and they got up to the 40's as well

      The trains couldn't run as the steel railway lines were buckling (and they had now power)

      In the suburb I live in was probably closer to 47. South Australia have had it worse I don't think they have dropped below 30 for a few weeks now.

    7. Re:Don't feel special by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1
    8. Re:Don't feel special by ElderKorean · · Score: 1

      Want to get away from the oppressive heat? Move to Victoria.

      Not a good choice just at the moment. South Australia and Victoria have been dealing with 35-45 Celsius temps for the last few weeks.

    9. Re:Don't feel special by daybot · · Score: 1

      Want to get away from the oppressive heat? Move to Victoria.

      How about the oppressive government?

  7. Compartmentalizing the Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Welcome to the dismantling of the internet. If you have the slightest knowledge of how media cartels work, not just American ones but World wide, then you know it was just a matter of time before market segmentation reared its ugly head onto the web. Google is not exempt either, they've been IP filtering their early days.

    1. Re:Compartmentalizing the Internet by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      If you have the slightest knowledge of how media cartels work, not just American ones but World wide, then you know it was just a matter of time before market segmentation reared its ugly head onto the web.

      And that time was right around when RFC 1591 was adopted, fifteen years ago. What other reason for ccTLDs could there be -- for television shows to contribute to the Tuvan economy by reserving a vanity *.tv domain?

      The Internet may be the same all over, but the laws its users are compelled to abide by are not. Segmentation can and will exist on the network as long as any locality is capable of determining its own laws.

    2. Re:Compartmentalizing the Internet by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      The thing about the web is that because everyone can both send and receive, and we have these nice little tools called encryption and anonymizing networks, it doesn't ultimately matter what the big producers want... those in the know will always be one step ahead.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    3. Re:Compartmentalizing the Internet by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 1

      No kidding. It annoys me to no end when I try to play a stream from some content provider only to find the content is not available in my area. Living in Puerto Rico -- a US territory that many US companies treat like a foreign country -- I am often barred from watching shows online that are playing on my TV at that very moment, even after following the link that was advertised on the very show I am currently watching. It's so ridiculous.

      Here in Puerto Rico I can get Hulu but I can't get NBC online. It's fucking ridiculous.

      --
      "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
  8. Deployed by donaggie03 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a deployed American soldier (Afghanistan) who has downloaded many songs from Itunes over the last year, I just have to say this change is ridiculous! That is all.

    --
    Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
    1. Re:Deployed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      arent US installations considered US soil? a wouldnt think you would be affected as you likely are using DoD servers.

    2. Re:Deployed by donaggie03 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, we have a local Afghan internet service provider. Of course there are military computers all over base, but we cannot use them for personal use . . especially not to install software and dl music.

      --
      Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
    3. Re:Deployed by Dravik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A lot of the internet access is contracted out. Often deployed personnel get the Italian or Germain versions of google and will have a problem with itunes thinking they are in the country where the sat downlink(and thus ip address range) is located.

      --
      The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
    4. Re:Deployed by donaggie03 · · Score: 1

      Thank you for your concern, but I have not killed any babies or shot up a wedding. You seem to have strong opinions about the United States Military. Why don't you express those feelings while logged in so we can all see?

      --
      Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
    5. Re:Deployed by david+in+brasil · · Score: 1

      Troll much?

    6. Re:Deployed by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      From experience, Google and myspace are terrible about this. Chrome's built-in Google search would revert to Japanese every time I reopened the browser.

      Hulu doesn't work for anything, and a lot of American NETWORK sites like NBC are blocked. I wish I could remember the list, but I couldn't even get to Showtime's site to find a list of Bullshit! episodes.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
  9. You could always just SSH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    SSH to a friends machine, and tunnel all of your traffic.Then you'd technically be purchasing in the US, right?

    1. Re:You could always just SSH by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      SSH to a friends machine, and tunnel all of your traffic.Then you'd technically be purchasing in the US, right?

      No. You'd be purchasing wherever you are physically located.

    2. Re:You could always just SSH by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

      No. You'd be purchasing wherever you are physically located.

      It's not what you do, it's what they can prove. If the "proof" is an IP address on iTunes' logfiles, then where you "are" is wherever the SSH tunnel end was visible.

    3. Re:You could always just SSH by noc007 · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understand how SSH tunneling works. One can essentially setup a VPN with SSH tunneling. SSH to the US located system and with tunneling all of your traffic is routed through it thus presenting a source IP that's in the US to iTunes.

    4. Re:You could always just SSH by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Which is a US military base. In Britain, if we sell goods to a US military base located in Britain, it is considered an export to the US for tax purposes.

    5. Re:You could always just SSH by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      I understand how SSH tunneling works. This is not a technology issue, it's a legal issue. The purchaser is the person who purchases the songs, the location of the purchaser is the place where the actual person is located, and whether the purchaser is in the USA is whether that location is under the jurisdiction of the USA. SSH is completely irrelevant.

    6. Re:You could always just SSH by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      It's not what you do, it's what they can prove. If the "proof" is an IP address on iTunes' logfiles, then where you "are" is wherever the SSH tunnel end was visible.

      No, you really do violate the agreement if you order from outside the USA. It's also relatively easy to prove that you don't live in the USA if you don't in fact do so. It's just not easy enough that they would benefit from doing so.

      I mean, what's your point, anyway? I can understand the wish to violate such an annoying agreement with iTunes, if you think you can get away with it by using an SSH tunnel. What I just don't understand is why you would want to rationalize it with a transparently bad argument to the effect that you didn't actually violate the agreement because they can't (or won't bother to) prove that you did so.

      Just as an analogy, that'd be like saying that an actual murderer, if he was exonerated, did therefore not murder the victim. Do you agree with the argument that, since OJ was found innocent of murdering his ex, therefore he didn't murder her?

    7. Re:You could always just SSH by aeschenkarnos · · Score: 1

      Except that SSH solves the problem.

    8. Re:You could always just SSH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you agree with the argument that, since OJ was found innocent of murdering his ex, therefore he didn't murder her?

      Truth is a hard thing to deal with, Justice even moreso. One can say "correct, the government was unable to prove that he murdered his ex wife, therefore he did not" or you can say "yeah, he murdered her and got away with it". One version upholds the tenets of American law and order, the other makes you a bitter and cynical person.

  10. works in Vietnam by wisebabo · · Score: 2, Informative

    I live in Vietnam and regularly purchase apps for my iPhone which, uh, has gained the ability to work here ;).

    I saw the warning too but short of setting up some sort of proxy I have no other options but to try and use it here. Fortunately it works (for now).

    1. Re:works in Vietnam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The appstore is not only available in the US, but in even more countries than the normal music itunes store. So don't worry, you'll get your app in any country as long as the developer of the app chooses so.

      By the way, check out my great app Sidepod :-)

  11. Geography - not nationality by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 4, Informative

    This has nothing to do with being an USA citizen and all about where you are geographically located. If you have a credit card registered to a USA address, then you can buy quite happily from the US store (Apple isn't going to know the real story), but not if you have a non-USA address. This policy has been in place since day 1 of the iTunes store, and is in place because of the distribution rights set in place by the record companies, so in reality this is a non-story.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:Geography - not nationality by davecb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Odd, I have a Canadian credit card and itunes still takes my money (;-))

      --dave

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
    2. Re:Geography - not nationality by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      That's the way it's always been before, yes. The submitter is panicking because the new ToS says he won't be allowed to access it, even with his US credit card.

      Is he right? Who knows. If they were already blocking based on IP, I'm sure we'd have heard that story instead.

      This is probably a complete non-issue.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    3. Re:Geography - not nationality by NonUniqueNickname · · Score: 1

      If you have a credit card registered to a USA address, then you can buy quite happily from the US store

      The store looks at your IP address. The account you opened and used in the US, with a US billing address, and a US credit card, will be declined when you travel abroad. Tested. Then circumvented using a proxy.

    4. Re:Geography - not nationality by Linnen · · Score: 2, Informative

      yup.

      Same thing hits when US card holder tries purchasing electronica from the European iTunes store or Anime Soundtracks from the Japanese store.

      If it were not for this aspect of region locking, I would have been a customer.

    5. Re:Geography - not nationality by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      US iTunes store, or Canadian iTunes store? The US store certainly doesn't like my Canadian credit card, but the Canadian version takes it no problem.

    6. Re:Geography - not nationality by Duradin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Gotta love it when the recording industries refuse to let you give them money for their product.

      Ya, those regional restrictions are really helping to promote piracy, err, I mean combat piracy. 'Cause if someone can't legally get access to something they want for non-exorbitant prices (or if at all) they'll just totally stop wanting it...

    7. Re:Geography - not nationality by Duradin · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing this means getting a foreign region's gift card to use with the appropriate store will no longer work without going through a proxy either then.

    8. Re:Geography - not nationality by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Gotta love it when the recording industries refuse to let you give them money for their product.

      Well they have shared the pie between the distributors and they don't want to piss them off, by not respecting the turf boundaries.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    9. Re:Geography - not nationality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Canadian iTunes store may take your money, but you can't sign up for the American iTunes store. There is different content for sale in the US store.

      One way to get around this is to buy US gift cards online.

    10. Re:Geography - not nationality by davester666 · · Score: 1

      I believe this was been in the last couple TOS agreements that I've read for iTunes. It even explicitly mentioned iTunes possibly using your IP address to determine your physical location. However, so far, for me, they haven't denied out-of-country purchases.

      Just tried getting the weekly freebie from the US, and it still worked...

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    11. Re:Geography - not nationality by ezterry · · Score: 1

      They don't check every time.. but when they do you will be searching out a proxy.
      And didn't the occasional IP checking start 3mo. back?

      I find this annoying.. Particularly as I'm living in Canada.. the Canada store won't accept US credit/debit cards even with Canadian addresses.. and the US store does not like my IP address..

      (and I'd rather *NOT* need to buy gift cards at a physical store to quickly download online music/video)

    12. Re:Geography - not nationality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This seems true. I have a credit card with the billing address in America. And I just bought a tune from Greece on my desktop and an app from my iPhone. No difference.

    13. Re:Geography - not nationality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Odd, I have a Canadian credit card and itunes still takes my money (;-))

      BFD -- the big question is: Do you get your tunes?

      Shit, I'll take your money, too, given the chance.

  12. So, Fanboys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    What do you have to say about Apple's warm and fuzzy user-friendly DRM now?

    "Well, at least you can always burn it to CD then re-rip it..."

    Anyone have a pool going for how long Apple will stay afloat after the rapidly
    deteriorating Jobs shuffles off this mortal coil?

    1. Re:So, Fanboys... by argent · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What do you have to say about Apple's warm and fuzzy user-friendly DRM now?

      I say "I just upgraded three tracks from Joe Hisaishi's soundtrack to "Kikujiro" to iTunes Plus", what do you expect me to say? I should refuse to take advantage of the fact that Apple finally got the labels to agree to let them finish removing the cold and prickly DRM from the trackes they're licensing?

      And whoever modded you "funny" must be similarly out of touch.

    2. Re:So, Fanboys... by jcr · · Score: 1

      What do you have to say about Apple's warm and fuzzy user-friendly DRM now?

      Two things: 1) Apple never wanted it in the first place, and 2) Apple is dumping DRM.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    3. Re:So, Fanboys... by PPH · · Score: 1

      Apple probably has no interest in forcing such restrictions on its customers (US or foreign). What they do have to do is to survive an audit by the various record companies that have demanded them.

      So, charge to a US credit card and tunnel through a US proxy and Apple will be happy. (Nod, nod. Wink, wink.)

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:So, Fanboys... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Uh, I hate to tell you, but Amazon doesn't offer ANY mp3 store in most places in the world. In fact, many of the products available in their US store are off limits to most of the world.

      It has nothing to do with DRM.

    5. Re:So, Fanboys... by weston · · Score: 1

      What do you have to say about Apple's warm and fuzzy user-friendly DRM now?

      Never liked the DRM much, but for a while, even with its encumbrances, it was still one of the most convenient ways to get music online, and it was certainly one of the most convenient legit ways -- in other words, it met a certain set of requirements very well.

      Personally, I mostly ditched the iTunes store after a few computer failures which meant I was using up the number of times I could authorize a given machine... and finding Amazon's MP3 store. Still browse every once in a while either because I can't find something elsewhere or it's just interesting. Might use them more as they continue the transition they've already begun away from DRM. Might not.

    6. Re:So, Fanboys... by linhares · · Score: 1

      Uh, I hate to tell you, but Amazon doesn't offer ANY mp3 store in most places in the world. In fact, many of the products available in their US store are off limits to most of the world.

      Sure they are

    7. Re:So, Fanboys... by Qoroite · · Score: 1

      [Anyone have a pool going for how long Apple will stay afloat after the rapidly deteriorating Jobs shuffles off this mortal coil?]

      It survived without him for about 12 years; no reason to believe it can't survive without him permanently if he shuffles off.

    8. Re:So, Fanboys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone have a pool going for how long Apple will stay afloat after the rapidly
      deteriorating Jobs shuffles off this mortal coil?

      Well, to their advantage:
      1. They've shown they can survive 12 years without Jobs.
      2. They have a bunch of cash in the bank.
      3. They have expanded into other markets than just computers.
      4. Legions of idiotic fanboys that will buy anything with an Apple logo on it.
      5. Weakened Microsoft.

      To their disadvantage:
      1. The rise of cheap hardware (Netbooks, $20 MP3 players, etc.) that they can't compete with.
      2. Stronger competition from Linux and other open source software.
      3. The rise of web applications that make your choice of OS/platform irrelevant.
      4. Declining quality of their hardware and software.
      5. Lack of OSX-only applications to lock people onto the platform.
      6. People running Hackintoshes instead of buying Apple hardware.

      I'd give them 10 years, with them seriously starting to flounder in about 5 when all but the most loyal fanboys finally start to realize it's just overpriced shiny junk.

  13. it hasn't been enforced by stress_weenie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This policy is not new. It has been around for at least a year. But I live outside the US (and I am a US citizen... not that it matters in this case) and I still regularly purchase and download and watch TV shows and movies on iTunes. In fact, it is the only software that lets me do this. Amazon and other alternatives disable their service outside the US.

    1. Re:it hasn't been enforced by Ertman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Amazon even disables their service within the US if you don't use a US credit card. (I can walk into any record store in the US while on vacation and buy a CD or DVD using my credit card, but I can't buy songs or videos from Amazon because I don't have a US billing address. How silly.)

  14. Amazon MP3 by Rinisari · · Score: 3, Informative

    Try out Amazon MP3.

    It's cheap, DRM-less, and easy. Plus, it runs on Linux just fine (32-bit has packages, force it on 64-bit, use getlibs, and it works fine).

    YEARwithoutDRM

    1. Re:Amazon MP3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try the Pirate Bay. It's cheaper, DRM-less, and works with any platform.

    2. Re:Amazon MP3 by steve9001 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I agree with this post. After getting "shuffled" by songs my wife bought on itunes, I searched for months for a easy/legal/open/fair music solution. I don't want to be a Amazon fanboy, but they have a "fair" system that doesn't lock out any competing OS's. The amazon mp3 let you download a single song without installing anything on your PC. Here's my music solution: OS: Debian GNU Linux - i'm running Lenny Music Manager: Rythmbox - comes with Debian Online Music: Amazon mp3 - artist get paid some, but no DRM Portable player: Sansa Clip - plays ogg & mp3 I burn my existing CD collection to ogg enjoy.

    3. Re:Amazon MP3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an American living temporarily abroad, I can attest to the fact that Amazon MP3 will in fact work for you, provided it did when you were in the US (I guess you need an American address and credit card?)

      There was a small hiccup once where it randomly decided to complain about my location, but I went through a proxy to set up my credit card again, and then without the proxy it worked fine.

    4. Re:Amazon MP3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, if your wife had her own user account on your machine, and purchased her music on that account, you wouldn't run into that problem.

    5. Re:Amazon MP3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, that's US-only too. Not going to help the OP's problem. Really, this is all a mountain out of a molehill. This has always been the case with iTunes - if you have a US credit card, you are not allowed to use the Japanese or European stores. Same for vice versa. Because of the regionalization of all the labels, this will always be the case for every online store everywhere. iTunes is as close as a global solution for online music as anything at the moment.

    6. Re:Amazon MP3 by Lars+T. · · Score: 5, Informative

      Try out Amazon MP3.

      It's cheap, DRM-less, and easy. Plus

      ... it can't be used outside the USA either. Great alternative there.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    7. Re:Amazon MP3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it doesn't work outside the US. Unlike iTunes. Jeez, would people stop with the Amazon bullshit. Apple has most of it's catalog DRM-free as of a week ago. I would love to use Amazon as well as iTunes but being an American working outside the US Amazon happily takes my American credit card. And then blocks me from downloading the song (using IP geotagging) I just paid for. Amazon MP3 can go to hell.

    8. Re:Amazon MP3 by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Informative

      And it's not available out side the US and (now) the UK. At all.

      Apple offers iTunes stores for most of the countries in the world, you just can't buy from the wrong store.

    9. Re:Amazon MP3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please note that AmazonMP3.com is currently only available to US customers.

    10. Re:Amazon MP3 by DM9290 · · Score: 1

      Try out Amazon MP3

      It doesn't work outside the United States. I live in Canada and Itunes works here. Amazon does not.

      --
      No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
    11. Re:Amazon MP3 by compro01 · · Score: 1

      AFAIK, it works if you use a US credit card with a US billing address, so it is an option for the "US citizen traveling abroad"

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    12. Re:Amazon MP3 by pacinpm · · Score: 1

      Try out Amazon MP3.

      It's cheap, DRM-less, and easy. Plus, it runs on Linux just fine (32-bit has packages, force it on 64-bit, use getlibs, and it works fine).

      YEARwithoutDRM

      "Please note that AmazonMP3.com is currently only available to US customers."

      Yeah, it works. When you are in US.

    13. Re:Amazon MP3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? I thought so, too, but I downloaded some stuff from Amazon MP3 just last week, from outside the US...
      My Amazon account and the card I used have a US address though, if that makes any difference.

      Their video on demand service, on the other hand, I don't think I could get to.

  15. First a moon base, now this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google is not exempt either, they've been IP filtering their early days.

    That's amazing! Are they using some kind of time-traveling firewall?

  16. Completely out of control by paulthomas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The last time I was presented with the "agreement" for the iTunes store, I pulled up a terminal and ran wc on it. It was 4,931 words long, not including referenced agreements. You can go buy a CD at a store with out signing a contract, much less one nearly 5,000 words long.

    It contained all manor of claims of how Apple could unilaterally change the terms for purchased music and required that you "agree to agree" to future terms.

    Having taken some contract law courses ( but IANAHPAADL - I am not a highly paid Apple attack dog lawyer), much of it seemed unconscionable. Specifically, consideration from Apple (ability to play already purchased songs, access the store, etc.) seems weak-to-non-existent in light of the fact that it can be arbitrarily revoked according to the terms.

    Also, I am generally an Apple fan, but this is one area where I think they are really out of control.

    1. Re:Completely out of control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having taken some contract law courses ( but IANAHPAADL - I am not a highly paid Apple attack dog lawyer), much of it seemed unconscionable. Specifically, consideration from Apple (ability to play already purchased songs, access the store, etc.) seems weak-to-non-existent in light of the fact that it can be arbitrarily revoked according to the terms.

      If the contract is prima facie unconscionable, sign it and when necessary, take Apple to court. If the contract is truly unconscionable, you won't even have to hire an attorney, because the Judge will see the contract for what it is.

      OTOH, maybe your definition of unconscionable and the legal definition are not quite one and the same.

    2. Re:Completely out of control by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's just like every other EULA you know, ignored~

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Completely out of control by omglolbah · · Score: 1

      Apple has been in a battle with Norwegian consumer organizations for years over these things. The Norwegian itunes store cannot change purchasing terms after the purchase has happened. It is against the law in Norway.

      There is a multitude of licensing issues with iTunes but the recent removal of DRM does help a lot. They are slowly moving towards being in compliance with Norwegian law. Hopefully the EU can whip em into compliance but I wouldnt hold my breath....

      Then there is the Apple warranty issues like "we only give 1 year warranty even though Norwegian law requires 2 years on our products. HA Ha Ha!"... Which has landed them in hot water repeatedly.

      I long for the day when they finally end up in court and get told to fix their shit or gtfo of Norwegian commerce :-p Eventually it will happen...

  17. Do you have a credit card? by CubeDude213 · · Score: 1

    AFAIK, Apple will allow you to purchase from the US store if you have credit card with a US or APO billing address. That's how they check.

    Also, I'm pretty sure the ToS for the store has had this rule ever since it was opened up to other countries. Each country has its own store due to licensing restrictions from the labels.

    1. Re:Do you have a credit card? by davecb · · Score: 2, Informative

      Either they're not checking or the credit card company isn't allowed to disclose the customer's address without a court order, as my canadian card works fine.

      --dave

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
    2. Re:Do you have a credit card? by halcyon1234 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Either they're not checking or the credit card company isn't allowed to disclose the customer's address without a court order, as my canadian card works fine.

      But they can turn on the Address Verification System (AVS). You would have to enter your address into the "billing address" fields. While processing the transaction, they can request that the payment provider verify the address. If it doesn't match, they can reject the payment.

      By making those fields mandatory, they'll force you to declare the country of origin of your credit card, and they can act (in)appropriately from there.

    3. Re:Do you have a credit card? by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      You disclose your address, and the merchant checks that it matches what your credit card co has on file. That is one of the ways they check it isn't a fraudulent transaction.

      Also, the first four digits of the card tell you which bank issued it. For example 4929 is Barclays Bank in the UK.

    4. Re:Do you have a credit card? by davecb · · Score: 1

      Canada nominally requires the merchant to tell the credit card company the 4-digit check-number on the card, and replies either "yes" or "no". Adresses are personally identifying information, and are normally only disclosed if a suit is filed, otherwise the credit card company can get in trouble.

      Some vendors ask for you address and get the credit card company to confirm it, although strictly speaking they're not supposed to do so.

      Alas, this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, as does the enforcement of it (;-))

      --dave

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
  18. iTunes Plus by argent · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's cheap, DRM-less, and easy. And it doesn't install a helper application into your browser, just waiting for someone to figure out how to slide an exploit into a ".amz" file.

    For Safari under Leopard, to remove that erroneous tagging of ".amz" as "safe" (there's no such thing as a "safe" file), remove the entry from ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.DownloadAssessment.plist .

    1. Re:iTunes Plus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Out of curiosity, how are you posting to slashdot?
      Any connection to slashdot involves transferring many files, all in formats repeatedly shown to be exploitable in the past, in virtually any application you could be using.

    2. Re:iTunes Plus by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      It's cheap, DRM-less, and easy. And it doesn't install a helper application into your browser, just waiting for someone to figure out how to slide an exploit into a ".amz" file.

      What are you talking about? Amazon doesn't install anything in my browser; you download a separate application. And what makes an amz file less safe than any other file? It's a document, not an application. And it's being served by amazon.com -- or does your scenario involve malicious hackers taking over amazon.com too?

    3. Re:iTunes Plus by krzy123 · · Score: 1

      Um .. don't you need iTunes to download iTunes Plus tracks? iTunes is pretty much bloated crap and way worse than the Amazon downloader.

    4. Re:iTunes Plus by argent · · Score: 1

      Um .. don't you need iTunes to download iTunes Plus tracks?

      OK, here's the scenario:

      1. Someone figures out that if you put "#!No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney." followed by 447 nulls and "1060 West Addison Street - Chicago" into a .amz file and pass it to the Amazon downloader it opens up a gateway to hell in your hard disk. Anyone can put up a ".amz" file for downloading anywhere and the helper application will run it as soon as you follow the link. You lose.

      2. Someone figures that if you put "#!No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney." followed by 447 nulls and "1060 West Addison Street - Chicago" into an mp3 file and pass it to iTunes it opens up a gateway to hell in your hard disk. Anyone can put up an mp3 file for downloading and as soon as you follow the link... it gets saved to your hard drive. OK, they make it an "itms:" link... but that only fetches files from Apple's servers, so they can't feed it to iTunes that way...

    5. Re:iTunes Plus by argent · · Score: 2, Funny

      Out of curiosity, how are you posting to slashdot?

      By whistling pure 300 baud tones directly into a plain old telephone and handling the TCP-IP protocol and checksums in my superior cerebral cortex, just like anyone else.

      Any connection to slashdot involves transferring many files, all in formats repeatedly shown to be exploitable in the past, in virtually any application you could be using.

      Oh, that's right. Since you can't guarantee you can't catch a cold it's OK to run barefoot through the hot word in a plague hospital and snog all the ebola patients. I'll keep on washing my hands after using the restroom, if that's OK with you.

    6. Re:iTunes Plus by cyriustek · · Score: 1

      Sorry mate, but if one goes to the site outside of the US, he gets the following:

      "Please note that AmazonMP3.com is currently only available to US customers."

    7. Re:iTunes Plus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, Amazon actually enforces this requirement.

      http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2007/10/amazon_mp3_blocks_customers.html

      I found that if I started the download using Amazon's download tool using VPN to the US, but finished it over my foreign connection, I could download what I wanted. Sure was a pain.

    8. Re:iTunes Plus by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      It doesn't? Funny, that... the last time I had to install QuickTime (required for iTunes) it took over the job of handling a variety of files on my browser, including QT moves (of course, never mind that I had other apps for watching those) and JPEG (on IE at least, which some of the sites I need to use require). Considering that QuickTime has already had multiple in-the-wild exploits, I'd say that's a hell of a lot scarier than a .amz file which (at least on Vista) produces a prompt before loading the helper application (Amazon downloader, in this case).

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    9. Re:iTunes Plus by argent · · Score: 1

      Good point. I reflexively turn off pretty much all browser plugins... I would much rather download a file than have it open in some buggy piece of crap in my browser (yes, Acrobat Reader, I'm looking at you... no, REINSTALLING the plugin when I just run Reader after I've explicitly removed it is NOT cricket) and I blocked those beggars so long ago that I'd forgotten I had to.

  19. 7th grade English, sentence diagramming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    OT, but your sig is slightly wrong. It should read: "I agree with 90% of the world which are all idiots, you don't, therefore you're biased!"

    That is better, but you should take it one step further and translate it into something humans can understand.

    Seriously, it needs a diagram accompanying it.

  20. Let's be sensible about this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just get mp3's from the internet for free.

    It's the *sensible* thing to do when faced with ridiculous obstacles to what is a simple problem.

  21. Proxy. by senorpoco · · Score: 1

    ProxyProxyProxyProxyProxyProxyProxy I use OpenVPN it just runs happily in the background allowing me to access Hulu and all kinds of other US only content.

    1. Re:Proxy. by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

      Why thank you for that sir. Now I have an alternative to mashing the "New Idenity" button in Tor/Vidalia and hoping I get someone in the US.

    2. Re:Proxy. by Carnivore · · Score: 1

      Okay, I'm interested.
      Does it present a list of remote machines or do I have to come up with one? I never liked the idea of US-only stuff, but now that I live in Chile it's affecting me directly. Stupid media companies.
      Thanks!

  22. Same Problem in Canada by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a US citizen, living in Canada.
    I have a Canadian iPhone, but cannot purchase anything from iTMS using my US credit card, even using my Canadian address. I don't have a Canadian credit card, making buying anything impossible.

    So when I went to the states, I used my US credit card and US address, and I could purchase apps. I went back, synced, and a mysterious error appeared not letting me load the application. Translation of message: "Unable to load application"

    No idea if it's the same for music, because I would never buy music from Apple.

  23. LooooooL... by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1

    When the iTMS first came into existence, I was so eager to use it that I borrowed my aunt's credit card (who lives in the states) and bought music in Canada through her and her credit card! Aaahh... those were the days...

  24. You can always try talking to Apple by JonahsDad · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A friend of mine ordered the MLB.TV video streaming package, then had to spend most of the baseball season in China. After he tried unsuccessfully to use the service, he contacted MLB.TV's tech support, and although 1st layer support was no help, he eventually worked his way up to someone who was able to grant him access.
    Obviously, since Apple doesn't own the music, they might be less flexible. Doesn't cost anything other than time to try.

  25. US iTunes gift cards worthless as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had two iTunes gift cards each worth $15 from Christmas. The iTunes app wouldn't let me use them, because I'm trying to use them in Europe. When I had calmed down over their stupidity, I decided to use a public proxy. Problem solved.

    Stupid Apple. I was going to start buying from them now that they had DRM-free songs but not any more. They go from stupid (for DRM) to smart (for DRM-free) and back to stupid (for just being stupid and not letting their users give them money).

  26. Gift cards do the trick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My family abroad buys gift cards and uses those to buy from the US iTunes. Works like a charm.

  27. Anyone know whether you can authorize? by TwobyTwo · · Score: 1

    I'm curious: if you go traveling and neglect to authorize your machine before leaving the US, do the new rules prevent you from authorizing while on the road, or is it just that you can't buy new songs?

    If you can't authorize, that's worse, because it means that not only can't you purchase, you can't even listen to what you've already paid for. Furthermore, it suggests that someone who moves long term is at real risk of losing access to their whole library.

  28. Mac users: easy to work around.. by grogglefroth · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you have another mac in the USA, enable remote ssh logins into it. (Or really, any server that accepts ssh, but since you fell for the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field, I'll assume you're on a mac, and you know others with macs in the USA).

    In terminal,
      ssh -D 1080 example.com

    In network preferences,
        Configure your network settings to use a socks proxy on 127.0.0.1:1080

    Now, Safari and iTunes both will be browsing *via* example.com, working around any geolocation features Apple and other companies may be using. This setting is principally only honored by Apple apps; it won't affect Firefox for example (though you can configure Firefox to use a socks proxy).

    --
    Good, Fast, Cheap - Pick any two. - RFC 1925
  29. Missing the point... by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

    It would seem that the rabid free info crowd continues to miss the point of these type of restrictions. It's actually the TV people that need this restriction.
    TV shows have value to a broadcaster based on the fact that you can sell advertising during a popular show for more than an unpopular one. If there is a commercial free alternative that value is lost and the TV production company/studio/rightsholder can no longer demand a price for the content.
    This is a simple attempt to keep the value of their content as high as possible and make as much money as possible.

    I don't blame them, I'd want to keep the value of my property as high as possible as well. Most of you would too I presume.
    Now I'm going to get blasted by a half million unreasonable and anti copyright idiots and I expect that. You have your opinion and I'm free to ignore it as are the people trying to make a living off of their intellectual property.
    But the fact remains that if you want "free" content you have to endure commercials and as long as that is true these people will do what they can to maintain the value of the show to which the commercials will be added.
    Of course if you would simply rather pay a fee and have your TV commercial free you can always do what the BBC does. Or better yet the state can run and control all the content so that pesky commercial entities don't have any control of the message.

    But wait, we have a barn and a TV camera and we can sing...

    1. Re:Missing the point... by Timbotronic · · Score: 1

      Your argument makes absolutely no sense. People who are happy to *buy* content are being blocked from doing so. Now they'll either just go without or torrent it. How does that help the content producers?

      --

      One of these days I'm moving to Theory - everything works there

    2. Re:Missing the point... by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Whooosh

    3. Re:Missing the point... by Timbotronic · · Score: 1

      Rather than facetious posturing, perhaps you could respond to my argument directly. Specifically, how does the removal of a legitimate option for people to pay for content help you as a content producer?

      --

      One of these days I'm moving to Theory - everything works there

  30. Found this out the hard way the other day... by Wadopoly · · Score: 1

    We Canadians have always known that this is the case. We have this Canadian content law up here (from your friends at the CRTC). I have an iPod Touch and decided that I wanted to put the latest software on it from Apple so I could use the App Store. I re-flashed the firmware (it was jailbroken) because I actually want to support these guys and the App Store is pretty cool. I bought a gift card for this very purpose. I hate putting tons of little transactions on my credit card. So I get the card and go home and download some apps and find it has not charged my gift card. Thinking there must have been some mistake I buy a game I wanted. Same thing. It went through but billed my cc.

    I had to go to Apple Support to find out that due to some weird-ass law that we have up here it is not legal to purchase software over the internet by means of a pre-paid medium. That means you CANNOT use your gift card to buy apps, although it works fine for movies or TV, such as it is up in Canada (the TV shows are damned awful to choose from). But the main gripe is I would never have bought this stupid card had I know this in advance. I looked and looked on Apple's site. The only thing I could find that suggested this was the case was forum posts from other frustrated users. Needless to say I was pissed and jail broke my ipod again.

  31. Overrated story by mr100percent · · Score: 1

    iTunes stores are all over the world. So what if the EULA says you cant buy in the US store if you're in Sweden, use the Swedish iTunes store.

    1. Re:Overrated story by teg · · Score: 1

      iTunes stores are all over the world. So what if the EULA says you cant buy in the US store if you're in Sweden, use the Swedish iTunes store.

      Unless you have a Swedish creditcard and address, they won't allow that either... so if you're e.g. on a long trip, no purchases for you.

      The most annoying thing are all the things they don't sell here in Scandinavia... e.g. no movie rentals via Apple TV. Or buying of movies/TV.

  32. Yarr Harr by Vahokif · · Score: 1

    Well if you can't pay to see their shows, they don't lose sales if you pirate them, right? http://eztv.it/

  33. Not blocked yet by ciryon · · Score: 1

    I just tried and American iTunes Store is still not blocked in Europe at least. I somehow fail to see that I'm doing something criminal when I buy music and shows from American iTunes using "gift cards", instead of pirating the goods from a torrent site, which would have been the only viable alternative.

  34. And then some by phorm · · Score: 1

    In German you are subject to the laws of Germany. However in many cases it seems that being an "American Citizen" means that if you are in Germany but do something that's illegal in the US (maybe not in Germany), they may still come after you when you come home...

    1. Re:And then some by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      In German you are subject to the laws of Germany. However in many cases it seems that being an "American Citizen" means that if you are in Germany but do something that's illegal in the US (maybe not in Germany), they may still come after you when you come home...

      That would be unusual. Most countries will prosecute crimes committed in their own country, and not crimes committed elsewhere. There are rare cases where it may be unclear where a crime is "committed", like sending a letter bomb from one country to another, or shooting a border guard on the other side of the border. And there may be some very special exceptions, like sexual abuse of children in foreign countries. For most things, even murder, the USA might extradite you, but they couldn't prosecute you.

  35. They want more money by phorm · · Score: 1

    So why don't these companies want the money being offered to them?

    The do want your money, but they want more of it depending on where you live. So (in $USD) they might want to charge you $1.00 in the US, $1.50 in Canada, $0.10 in Thailand, and $0.15 in China. Because few people in Thailand or China are going to pay $1.00 for a song, but if it's too low in say, Canada, it would supposedly undercut CD sales.

  36. Jailbroken? by phorm · · Score: 1

    I don't know if it differs for the iPod, but with the iPhone I can use the apps store or the third-party repositories (Cydia).

    1. Re:Jailbroken? by Wadopoly · · Score: 1

      Technically it is not an issue since I have now jailbroken(?) jailbreaked(?) lol my iPod. The problem I had with it is that there is NOTHING stating this at the retail level or within Apple's own website that would suggest this is the behavior. On the back, in fact it says get a card and download "entertainment". When asking the "specialists" at Futureshop, BB (yes same company) or London Drugs I was advised by all three that you could use a gift card for this purpose. I just think that if Apple is going to have different terms for each country then they had better put, in clear language, what a consumer could expect in a place where the consumers can easily find.

  37. U.S. territories by fredditor · · Score: 2, Informative

    The biggest problem with this is for those of us who are US citizens living in US territories. We use US currency, we pay federal taxes, we get our mail through the US post office, but because we are territories and not part of the Mainland US we get screwed on so many different services. Itunes, Netflix, ebay, try ordering any software with even the smallest bit of encryption on it through Amazon in the territories and see the order fail to go through. try getting digital downloads from most places and they will refuse the order because US territories are considered international destinations and are not eligible for those services. It's very frustrating, to have to find a creative way around this problem, usually I have stuff drop shipped to a friend or family stateside and then mailed down here but that doesn't work for digital stuff.

    1. Re:U.S. territories by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      The only online distribution service I use is Steam, does Steam not work for you?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  38. Play.com and 7digital by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Play.com and 7digital, cheap (cheaper than iTunes+ IIRC), DRM-less, doesn't require any shop specific software. Just a browser and MP3 player. So nothing for an attacker to exploit apart from the software you already had.

    1. Re:Play.com and 7digital by argent · · Score: 1

      Play.com's 65p comes to 93c today, which is close enough to 99c. 7digital seems to be charging 79p. Seems about the same.

      I used to like eMusic.com before they put me through a bunch of stupid annoyance over the way they handle billing. I assume they're still a pretty good deal since I left them.

      There's increasingly many options, thanks to companies like eMusic and, yes, Apple, who managed to pry open the DRM gates. My point wasn't that Amazon isn't an option, but rather than it's not actually better than iTunes... I was responding to all the posts that implied that iTunes was still exclusively DRM-protected content like it had to be when they made their original deals with the labels.

  39. Will I get a refund? by Gribflex · · Score: 1

    Hm. So do you think there's any chance they will refund my outstanding store credit? I still have ~70 USD of gift card credit left over from Christmas. Is that just forfit?

  40. This isn't really an Apple thing by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

    Studios want to keep control over where their TV shows are shown. In particular, they often have exclusive deals with different local distributors in each country (eg. I think Warner Brothers distribute BBC stuff in the US). These studios don't want Apple competing with their distributors. Not much Apple can do about it.

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  41. I don't understand this: by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 2

    I can order CDs, DVDs, you name it, from amazon.com and they will happily ship things to Canada.

    I can't buy the same music/shows online due to 'copyright issues'.

    Why is it that the physical media is treated differently from the electronic media for the exact same content?

    --
    -- the cake is a lie
    1. Re:I don't understand this: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Customs and taxes?

    2. Re:I don't understand this: by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 1

      what does that have to do with anything? If I pay customs at the Canadian border on my US purchase, that money for sure will not go to the MPAA/RIAA/...

      --
      -- the cake is a lie
    3. Re:I don't understand this: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And this is why I dread the end of CDs. Internet-only music distribution is a nightmare for a completist music fan who happens to live in the "wrong" country.

      I live in Brazil and there's no iTunes store here, so there's simply no legal way for me to get "iTunes exclusives" from artists I like (or exclusives from any other internet store, for that matter). I did buy an iTunes gift card and am using it sparingly, just on those songs I absolutely can't get any other way. I fear the day they start enforcing the regional restrictions.

      There's an obscure Finnish band I happen to like, but it's almost completely unknown outside of Finland. It is difficult but possible to buy a CD through the internet, but if a foreign fan wants to buy their songs via the internet, they simply can't, even if the songs are available in the Finnish iTunes store (they're not in any international or US store, and I'm almost certain no foreign distributor is interested in them). When CDs are completely replaced, even though you'll be able to discover awesome bands via the internet, you simply won't be able to get their releases and support them if these regional restrictions are still in place.

      (And please don't tell me I should choose artists who will take my business and ignore the others; if I like a piece of music, I want to be able to buy it, even if it's owned by an evil corporation.)

  42. You tried by localman · · Score: 1

    I always try to get my media through a legitimate source first, for example I'll watch TV shows with ads on one of the official sites if available. But I've gotten to the point where if I encounter any bullshit I just go get it via some other source and that means copyright infringement.

    I do want to support the content creators, but I'm just so tired of waiting for them to get with the program. I can't believe that sites like hulu can only offer the last few episodes of the show... where is the logic in that? I'm not paying for DRM'd material either. It's like they're actively trying to make life more difficult for their customers.

    I have some ethics, but they've slipped to the point where I'm willing to infringe copyright if there's no convenient way for me to get the goods. The longer they do stupid shit like this to maintain "control" the more people are going to slip away.

  43. "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." by weston · · Score: 4, Insightful

    he apple apologists need to seriously STFU with this "it isn't apple's fault!" nonsense. They're partners. Apple is not some holy child that hath cometh down from the mountain to bestow upon the unwashed masses all that is holy and good.

    I'd tell you to a heaping spoonful of STFU yourself, but I think you've done Apple enthusiasts everywhere a service by serving as a quintessential example of knee-jerk Apple Critic. You certainly don't know what you're talking about with regards to how the DRM works, you seem to be ignorant of Apple's actions and stated intentions with regard to said DRM, you seem to have reflexively confused licensing issues with DRM issues, and you seem generally confused about the value and state of other players in the marketplace.

    Exhibit A:

    "Bought that song on your computer at work? Want to listen to it on your computer at home? Well guess what, charlie, unless you find some obscure bullshit setting in some hidden window in some far off corner of some far off menu in iTunes, $1 more shall go to the Steve."

    Anyone who's ever used iTunes on more than a single computer knows there's a simple solution to this problem. It doesn't involve an obscure menu, in fact, iTunes will *prompt* you for the necessary information as soon as you try to play the song.

    Exhibit B:

    A moments of thought would reveal that the geographic restrictions on purchases have little to do with DRM and everything to do with licensing, since DRM (on music anyway) isn't tied to a region, and isn't the technology used in restricting the purchase at any rate.

    Exhibit C:

    "Why do you think people don't use amazon?"

    They do, actually. Their MP3 store launched a year and a half ago and sell about 10% of what iTunes does. Some estimates place them as the #2 digital retailer:

    http://mashable.com/2008/03/26/amazon-mp3-takes-2/

    Furthermore, that figure almost certainly represents sales mostly taken from iTunes. Almost every iPod/iTunes user I know has switched.

    Exhibit D:

    "Or why microsoft's VASTLY superior subscription model is ignored?"

    I can see value in a subscription model, I've participated in Rhapsody and Satellite Radio before. But at the end of the day, many people -- apparently more people -- happily choose ownership of their selection of media rather than ongoing rent to access to a broader selection, so it's not particularly clear that it's a vastly superior model.

    Overall, it appears that the purpose of your post is really to express some ill-defined anger at Apple as a company or to project a straw-man image of people who buy and enjoy their products.

    It certainly isn't to express well-considered criticism of some of the company's practices.

    1. Re:"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." by ketsugi · · Score: 1

      Exhibit C:

      "Why do you think people don't use amazon?"

      They do, actually. Their MP3 store launched a year and a half ago and sell about 10% of what iTunes does. Some estimates place them as the #2 digital retailer:

      http://mashable.com/2008/03/26/amazon-mp3-takes-2/

      Furthermore, that figure almost certainly represents sales mostly taken from iTunes. Almost every iPod/iTunes user I know has switched.

      It's worth noting that Amazon also refuses to sell me music simply because I do not live in the US. I fail to see how this is any better than iTunes Music Store. At least with iTunes I have the option of using gift codes to pretend I live in the US and get my music that way. With Amazon I have no such recourse, as far as I have been able to find out. It's credit card or nothing. (Paypal knows where you live too so that doesn't work either.)

    2. Re:"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well put weston !

  44. illegal unde fair trade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    should be noted while this is likely illegal under BOTH USA and EU/EC laws (a friend of mine who is a international trade/patent lawyer in a major Brussels firm says it is so) Apple has good lawyers. Probably Apple knows it eventually will have to back off this but risked anyways. While the probability of a class action is quite high the TIME it takes to bring it to full resolution it fairly long, long enough for Apple to rack enough DOUBLE profits (it may be worthwile unless people massively switch to OTHER devices and illegally convert iTunes to mp3) me thinks this is going to be a BIG MESS...

  45. This is a non issue by yabos · · Score: 1

    This has been in the TOS for a very long time and they don't enforce it. Many Canadians were buying US iTMS gift cards and using them with a US account before Apple put movies and TV shows on the Canadian store.

  46. Major studio Revenue Models by zenchemical · · Score: 1

    I used to work for an online vido media distribution company, and I suspect that this has very little to do with apple policies, and everything to do with the copyright holder. While small video distributors will often grant all-inclusive licenses, large distributors (sony, disney, a&e, probably anyone you've ever heard of) distribute rights on a per-region basis. These formulas have been developed by the large media distributors in this country over the last 100 years in order to maximize revenue. Having spoken to sony on the matter, it is unlikely that any online distributor of their media, for example, will not be bound by region restrictions. To the gentleman that commented that the CD store did not enforce this same model: This is true, but when you move into DVD's it isn't. This revenue model by the big distributors was specifically what lead to region encoding in the DVD standard. (Yes, I know there are multi-region DVD's.) In short, this is probably not apple's fault, and pretty much every online distributor of major studio content will have to abide by it, unless the revenue models of the content producers shift dramatically. Going to another platform, or another distributor, is unlikely to change this situation fundamentally.

  47. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is nothing new. The US Apple and iTunes stores have always required a USD credit card with a US statement address. (In fact, most US-based internet stores do if you want to get the USD price.) As long as you have those, then you can use the US Apple stores - I do, and I am in the UK. Contrast this with the practices of (and I pick a name at random) Abercrombie and Fitch, which is so scared of a price comparison between its US stores and its UK ones that it blocks access to its US online stores from overseas.

  48. the MSFT music model by fishdan · · Score: 1

    You don't lose the music -- Microsoft knows full well their DRM is cracked. Their DRM is purely for show and to appease the music labels. And for that matter so is Itunes if you use a record through sound card sort of software. So the MSFT model is MUCH better because it is ACTUALLY as much music as I care to record for a monthly fee.

    --
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
  49. Use a VPN by sphazell · · Score: 2, Informative

    I just use a VPM [witopia.net] as long as it tunnels out of a US server some times it comes out via Europe though depends on server load.

  50. Poor expats by poptaart · · Score: 1

    This is nothing new. Rarely these days can you actually buy something without a US billing address on your credit card (unless you can use PayPal, and even then...) Even stupid places like Target won't let you use your foreign billing address even if you ship within the US. Maybe you want to send it as a legitimate gift? Nooooo!

    That's why I kept my US credit card (luckily I have a US shipping address too but these days, now I have to deal with those dumb airline baggage fees- whole other topic of disgust).

    I suspect this is also driven by the credit card companies who claim it's due to fraud... Though I wonder how much of this is also due to inadequate measures dealing with identity theft and credit profiling (ie. stalking your transactions because no one would ever use their credit card outside the US *insert sarcasm here*).

    1. Re:Poor expats by mikael · · Score: 1

      You get this in the UK as well, though it varies from company to company. You can easily order items from the SE of England to the North of Scotland (400 miles) with a UK credit card, but try sending the item abroad to France with a UK credit card registered to that address (100 miles away), and it is "Sir, you are trying to purchase a computer with a foreign credit card!". In both cases the destination address is clearly identified using Google Maps (a good check to see whether you are dealing with a real corporation or a garden shed startup).

      Even Paypal has some problems trying to register credit cards belonging to a bank from one European country but registered with a home address in another country.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    2. Re:Poor expats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      inadequate measures dealing with identity theft and credit profiling

      More like inadequate programmers being unable to cope with anything but a two letter state code and 5 digit zip code. Country? Province? Precinct? Chome? These aren't parts of an address!

  51. Swiss neutrality? by robogobo · · Score: 0

    I just rented "Burn after Reading" from here in Switzerland. Maybe they payed Apple off with nazi gold. But I do use a US credit card with a US billing address, so perhaps the OP was a bit misinformed about being restricted while traveling abroad. Maybe only non US-based accounts will be cut off.

  52. Nothing new there I think by GrahamCox · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I am a British citizen living in Australia. I have a British bank account with a British credit card but registered to my Australian address. All perfectly fine. But I can't and never have been able to download music from the UK iTMS with this card. But neither can I use this card to purchase from the Australian iTMS, even though I can go into any store selling physical CDs and use the same card to buy a CD. Most other online purchases (but not all) accept this card without a murmur. This whole "credit card tied to a physical region of the planet" thing is stupid, broken, and out of step with the reality of more and more people being globally mobile.

    It's the same mentality that brought us the ever-baffling wonder of user hostility that is DVD region coding.

  53. Oh dear, how sad, never mind! by phlegmboy · · Score: 1

    Prorietry lock-in FTL! But then again, what do you expect from a company that produces a device that can only play a tiny subset of the audio codecs. Yet another example of Form Over Function Fail. Any portable musioc device that cannot natively play my OGG or FLAC files isn't worth the trouble.

  54. It's been this way for a while. by kklein · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually, I got the message that iTMS was not to be used from outside of the US months ago (I live in Japan). They said they might check. Thus far, they haven't. I wouldn't worry about it.

    Also, Amazon MP3 won't sell to me anymore, although they do for my friends. I had to buy a book for work from the US site and registered my Japanese credit card (my work can only reimburse expenditures made in yen), and then, like magic, Amazon MP3 stopped working. I've even tried making a new account with a different US credit card, and yet Amazon now knows I'm in Japan, but doesn't know that my buddy down the street, who has only ever used his US credit card with the US site, is as well.

    I absolutely hate pirating music. I reject it on ethical grounds, and I hate tracks being mis-labeled (I have never entered track names by myself--who are these people who can't spell who are entering ID3 tags on pirated songs???) and having no control over the bitrate I get, and the album art requiring looking and futzing... It's just a shitty way to get music for all involved.

    But when I'm not even allowed to buy it online (except for on CD--which I still do for music I really, really like, so I can rip it lossless), what's a boy to do?

    The world was looking so pretty, without all those borders... Why do companies and governments need to redraw them through technological means? The promise of the internet is being quashed everywhere you look...

  55. It would be awesome... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If people actually tried something before posting. The terms have said this for a while (and they only say that for US accounts.. my Japanese ITMS account of course says I should only use it in Japan).

    As other posters have mentioned, this is just to make the labels happy.

    AND... it works fine. I can buy and download all manner of iTunes content from Japan or the US on either account. They use the BILLING ADDRESS to verify where you live, so as long as you have a valid US credit card, you're fine. If you think about it, that method makes sense - because if you have a US card, you must have some connection with the US.

    In the worst case if they tried to do some crappy inaccurate IP-based blocking, you could just proxy it. I hardly think this is a "Oh I couldn't buy it legally, that's why I illegally downloaded 30,000 tracks" type excuse.

  56. Renting music vs. buying music by steveha · · Score: 1

    Who wants to pay a fee each and every month to listen to music, only to lose all their music should they stop paying?

    That would be me.

    I have an account with the Rhapsody online music service. For about $12 a month, I have access to over five million audio tracks. Five. Million.

    Now, I would be the last person to claim that they are five million good audio tracks; there are plenty of lame covers and there is plenty of just music I hate. But that still leaves a vast amount of stuff I like, and I'm having fun exploring my way around. Recently I have been listening to the entire back catalog of Alan Parsons Project music; I found a few gems and a bunch of stuff I don't care about. Without buying anything, I figured out which songs I actually would want to get on a best-of compilation album.

    I still buy CDs and I still buy music from Magnatune. But there is a place for music exploration using Rhapsody and Pandora.

    If I wanted to be snide, I could comment that ITMS is vastly inferior to Rhapsody because you must pay a buck just to hear the whole song to find out whether it's worth buying or not. But why should we bash each others' preferences? There is plenty of room for both types of music service.

    The worst thing about Rhapsody: buggy software. Really buggy. Maybe the Windows client is better, but I never use that.

    The best thing about Rhapsody: Five. Million. Audio tracks.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  57. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did the other half go into the bay, and that is considered a good start?

  58. Like tv shows only for american eyes by dafing · · Score: 1
    I've noticed cool things on iTunes that I couldnt get because I use the NZ version of the store, things like "iTunes 2008" which is a really slickly made interface of the top selling music videos, songs, audiobooks etc etc etc of iTunes for that year, I can view it and its even goddam featured in iTunes I believe, I think it might show up on the main page sometimes,......but if I click on a song etc to take me to that page, pay and download "sorry, that song is not available in your region, switch to US store?" with yes or cancel as options. Im not sure what the deal is with that, but it might be that Im looking at the US store and need to have a US credit card etc to buy from there. Very stupid.

    Another example is The Daily Show, I love watching that even when it is a lame episode with nothing good happening, it advertises "buy this episode you just watched for free on iTunes!!!!111!!!!" at the very end of the credits, but TDS is not on any other version of iTunes apart from the American store apparently! So I cant! I actually would be willing to pay a dollar or maybe two for cherry picked episodes, but I cant! Its not like there are dvd sets or something either, so if I wanted episodes, Im just meant to download dvr recrorded versions from bit torrent etc? We dont get The Corbert Report, I have gotten some audio books of Corbert, and I would consider buying those two since its not on NZ TV, but its unavailable. Really, any kind of regional restriction should not be tolerated in the internet age, imagine if you could only talk to people in your country by email for example.

    --
    --- ...or a new slashdot signature. Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
  59. VNC between authorized machines? by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 1

    I would think setting up a headless box within the US controlled via VNC for iTunes purchases by another machine running outside the region would be enough to get around this, assuming the out of region machine was also authorized with itunes ahead of time on the same account for playback. Then all you'd have to figure out is a method of transfer.

    If your ISP has a fit about it, I hear pen drives are fairly easy to ship...

    --


    8==8 Bones 8==8
  60. It's not just iTunes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More and more content providers based in the United States block users with an IP outside the USA... I live on Vancouver Island (Canada), and can literally see the Washington State's Olympic Mountains from my house... but I cannot even log in to Rhapsody (let alone subscribe), or any videos at (for example) Saturday Night Live, The Daily Show or Colbert Report.

    These idiots just don't get it -- I think we're going to have to wait for all the baby-boomer lawyers to die off and be replaced by younger attorneys.

  61. That's not news by HMage · · Score: 1

    That is not news.

    They've been doing that since the beginning. I'm in Russia and I can't buy a song from iTunes USA. And there's no iTunes Music Store in Russia either.

    --
    Eugene 'HMage' Bujak
  62. they should apply that to cannabis by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    If only they made cannabis legal to own/grow/smoke, but not to sell/buy.

    But obvious free solutions are just not compatible with govt suit lawyers who made 250k yearly.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  63. even tho they cant proove income tax is LEGAL by cheekyboy · · Score: 2, Funny

    No judge or tax man can proove you have to pay income tax by law, they cannot site the laws, they just say

    "you have to, pay it, we have guns and can kill you and your family and fake a murder suicide like we have done lots of times"

    Just leave usa, like 150k californians have already because of high taxes. No senator pays taxes, or any corporate, so why should us cerfs.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  64. 50c beers in asia and $20 hookers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Asia has dirt cheap beer and hookers and lady boys

  65. lucky cocaine has no geo restrictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those execs and singers can buy cocaine anywhere, any time, no DRM or restrictions. Sales tax free too.

  66. Not just iTunes, other media by darpo · · Score: 1

    I have a relative who's retired and who has been living in various developing countries while he travels. It wasn't until he started doing this that I realized how much of a PITA that the Internet can be for people outside the US and North America. There are all kinds of artificial, often copyright-related barriers. If you want to get TV shows at Hulu.com, tough luck. Need to download games via Direct2Drive.com? Tough. Any kind of media is hard to come by, to the point where he and I are willing to put up with the outrageous customs charges when I ship him DVDs.

  67. This is news? by gevantry · · Score: 1

    Cripes. This is old stuff. Ever since ITMS started, you couldn't register an account with it in the USA unless you had a USA issued credit card with a USA billing address. I life in Japan but all of my CC's are issued by USA banks, so Apple refuses me. Likewise, ITMS Japan refuses me because all of my CC's are issued by USA banks, not Japanese banks. So I don't buy downloaded music. Instead, I rent CDs from the Video/CD store which works out to about 30 cents a track.

  68. What a coincidence, I just downloaded... by Chaset · · Score: 1

    Literally two minutes before seeing this story, I downloaded a song to try one of their weekly freebies. I'm in Japan for work for the last couple of years, and from the beginning until now, had no troubles downloading. When I fired up iTunes 3 minutes ago, it gave me the standard spiel it gives when terms have changed. I skimmed through it and Ok'd it.

    I didn't realize it had such a time bomb in there. And, from the looks of it, it doesn't matter, yet.

    --
    -- "This world is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."
  69. Apple's Term No Longer Allow Purchases Outside US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this reminds me of when I try to get stuff from the BBC. they will not let me watch many trailers, videos etc. because I live in America and have to what until they release it through BBC America. I agree that these policy do lead to more piracy.