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Is It Windows 7, Or KDE 4?
An anonymous reader writes "Is it Windows 7 or KDE 4? In this video, ZDNet takes to Sydney's streets to find out what people think of what they think is a Windows 7 demonstration. The results are surprising." Or maybe they're not surprising at all.
Nope, it loads just fine.
9/10 people polled also couldn't tell the difference between rabbit shit and deer shit.
I'll admit I fell for it. But in my defense, they showed it to me in the morning and I was really tired that morning for some reason. It's like someone switched out my usual high quality Columbian coffee with Folgers or something that day.
I mean; even the editors themselves state that there isn't any conclusion to be drawn here; "we've learned nothing" because there simply are too many factors to consider. People don't know Windows 7 or people don't know KDE. Or people don't really care at all. So; fun movie, move along.
Any OS can look impressive when you find a demo that shows off all the eye candy to its full extent. You could have shown these people DWM configured nicely they would think it would be the next generation OS, UI. Vista got good visual reviews too. The problem is when you start working with it, things change. KDE and GNOME while have a rather niced polished UI, you still need to do things the Unix/Linux way. The same with windows no matter what you do to the UI it is still windows and need to work with it.
What I find really funny comparing Windows/Gnome/KDE with a Mac. The Mac actually has a lot less eye candy, yet perception has it as having more.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
We've secretly replaced Your coffee with Fogers Crystals!
We did in fact not learn all that much from their little street intreviews. Apart from that people feel uncomfortable with Vista (what did that lady say -- "hard to get user-friendly with"?) we learnt that they seem to like the default looks of KDE 4. That's interesting, but not all that surprising.
Still a nice little laugh, that video.
It's very misleading, people could have pretended any OS or GUI, including MacOS-X - because the 1-2 min demonstration saying "look how easy it is" could have been a Vista desktop with a different background image, and people would be alike fooled. So the laugh was good, but it just shows how misleading suggestive presentations are, and what people truly value: easy to use, and they believe it (first) when you tell them, and get pissed (later) when it's not so as told (like in case of Vista).
This isn't a troll - I installed it with Suse 11.0 last year and though it was supposedly a release version it was utterly unusable, unstable and missing important features. I had to install 3.5.4 to actually get some work done. Since then I haven't bothered to check what state 4 is in now as I felt the KDE team (and Suse) had, to be polite, been rather dishonest about it. Is it worthwhile looking at it yet or should I just stick to 3.5 for the forseable future.
It is indeed surprising AND unsurprising.
The video ends with the two guys discussing "what have we learned today". FTFV:
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
If you can't distinguish KDE from Windows, and vice versa, that's reason enough to avoid both.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
So what does this experiment show? That people just aren't computer savvy.
Compared to other OS's MacOS is actually quite lite with its eye candy. Oddly enough OS X focuses more of the function of the UI more then how it looks. Every effect has a reason for it, and is used to help people grasp rather abstract concepts better. Vs. Say Wobbly windows in Ubuntu Linux which only hinders usage in order to look fancier aka (Window stuttering when it gets close to an other window)
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
You'll buy KDE4?!?!
I've got this pirate copy of KDE4.2... It's much cheaper than the original.
Anyone staging a demo can find a number of people to say oooh ahhhh.
Seriously. This is the problems with computers today. The perception of "usability" is not actual "usability."
We all know, at the end of the day, "usability" is how easy it is to accomplish one or more tasks, to a certain degree the ease at which you learn how to do these tasks, and lastly the predictability and reliability of accomplishing your tasks.
So, if something is easy to do, easy to learn, and rewards careful execution with consistent outcome, the thing is easy to use.
Now, where does flashy eye candy come in to that picture? It doesn't. That's why military vehicles are all drab colors. The criteria is utility not beauty.
Sure, I do *like* the way KDE 4 looks, but it is less usable than KDE 3.
Am I the only one who doesn't want eye candy these days?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want the look of Pre-OSX Mac or early Unix operating systems, or windows 3.1... I don't want things that are painful to look at. Just a simple, quiet appearance that doesn't distract me from what I'm doing.
I can get that in Windows and KDE 3.5. I can get it in Gnome.
Vista screwed the UI, and I can't get it there (I can come close, but they made some things use the same colors, while in earlier versions of windows, they used different colors - such as input fields and non-input page backgrounds. Windows 7 hasn't fixed this.
KDE 4, MacOSX, Windows 7, Windows Vista... Too much bling and not enough customisation in the UI for me.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Apps and games baby...Uhh, uh-huh, yeah.
Seriously thou, the rub comes in with what the Win32/64 platform can run more than anything else these days. Both Mac and GNU desktops are plenty mature enough to deal with what most normal users would want. The main thing is now the sheer force of inertia that the Windows platform has in terms of what it runs natively.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
At the end, they should have said:
"Have you ever heard of Linux?"
"What have you heard?"
"What you say if I told you this was Linux and not MS-Windows?"
I started the video, and it stuttered, and started over... with an actual demonstration of Windows 7. I had to reload the page to get the KDE4 prank video.
Was that supposed to be some kind of Zen test?
That's a bug in your legal system. I heard you recently voted a new president who may submit a patch.
Then again, your system is so broken you may want to consider a ground up re-write.
I hate printers.
Xfce is your friend.
I use Xubuntu. Plain, clear, simple and *fast*. 8.10 runs out of the box everything on my ThinkPad laptop including Bluetooth. Get it.
I hate printers.
Explaining tabs in the browser is harder, the vast majority will still shut down the browser instead of just the tab they were in.
Although KDE4.2 is showing great promises it's all but ready for full roll out.
But I sure like the way they are moving, it's nice to look at and the way they are splitting configurations like through widgets is in my view nice if only because it's optional.
But even in this demo we can see one of the issues, while rolling through the windows you notice how a video window is momentarily loosing like what seems sinc.
Now once it'll get snappy like KDE3.5 and robust as the OS underneath...
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Exercises like this might be fun, but they have no practical purpose.
Linux desktops aren't marketed, they are judged by their users based on useful metrics: configuration options, stability, tools, etc.
In Windows world, 95, XP, and Vista were all marketed to the public primarily by showing static screens illustrating how pretty they were. Windows' classic interface looks bland today, but it was hip in the 90's. XP's fisher price interface was a hackish step further. Aero is a half-hearted catchup maneuver to Linux and OSX, delivered in a business-minded blandness that only Microsoft thinks is "innovative". Each of those versions were marketed the same, but received differently based on almost everything except their appearance. No one has ever said UAC prompts are pretty, they're too busy being annoyed by them.
Which desktop is more visually attractive has little to do with how much can be done with it, and how efficiently.
I've been using KDE4 since openSUSE started including the previews.
I felt the KDE team (and Suse) had, to be polite, been rather dishonest about it.
I don't know but to me it always seemed clear that the 4.0 was more a "early tester" release.
By now KDE4.2 is starting to get really usable and really configurable and could be used by more casual users.
Sure, if you have tons finely tuned stuff in KDE3.5, you'll really miss them.
But KDE4.2 offers enough basic functionality to be usable by most people.
Is it worthwhile looking at it yet or should I just stick to 3.5 for the forseable future.
If you don't depend on highly specific KDE3.5 customisations,
or if you're ready to spend time re-tuning everything again in a slightly different way,
then KDE4.2 is definitely worth giving a try.
On the other hand if you absolutely require the same level of ultra smooth-polished user experience that KDE3.5 offers, you'd better stick with the KDE3.x branch for now and probably wait until somewhere around the KDE4.5 version. (maybe just giving quick shot to KDE4.3 and 4.4 just to watch progress).
Ditto for KDE5.x in a couple of years : stay with KDE4.5 until that one matures. ;-)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Wobbly Windows in KDE are nice and smooth.
They serve the same function as a "slurp" down to minimize. They make the motion organic and natural feeling when moving a window.
In Compiz it feels glitchy too much though, with weird jerking when dragging to a new desktop.
I will concure on the Ubuntu Default for extra desktop effects being too much, they chose the least intuitive animation for some things (however new windows come in, it is not natural or organic).
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Can I legally play a DVD on a Linux box in the US?
Yes.
Ask Dell. They now include a closed source DVD player app to cover this niggle. The rest of the world uses the free codecs and the libdvdcss library just fine.
Another Linux roadblock gone eh.. Soon people will have to come up with real arguments.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
...and if you find that a bit busy and bloated, use fluxbox (fluxbuntu if you must)...
My argument against moving the windows to be wobbly is the fact in real life we have more experience with solid objects Then Rubbery ones. Moving a windows should stay as a solid feel. Actually if you want to get a more realistic effect you should probably have the window rotate based on the torque that you place on the window when moving it. As for the "slurp" it effect is because the window is doing something that in real life we don't experience Objects shrinking without distortion it also forms an arrow in appearance to let the person know where the window went to. The wobbly window is just for fun, not useful or helpful.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I'll second this. Xubuntu or Slackware with Xfce is very nice. It looks good without being distracting. It is very fast compared to the other full desktop/window managers and doesn't get in the way. Being based on Gtk it has similar customizations as gnome. KDE apps still run great under it as well. I keep trying Gnome & KDE but always go back to Xfce when I need to get some work done.
Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
I set up my wife on my PC on another virtual terminal - (ctl-alt-F8), it automatically logs her in on boot-up, and whenever she needs "her" stuff, it's all there for her. With all her own passwords. Plus, my "stuff" remains untouched - so whether I'm downloading torrents, or in the middle of composing an email, wp, graphic, presentation...it's all still there when she's done (ctl-alt-F7, back to me)
Simple.
cheers,
You only read it as racist because of the context within this thread ... if somebody just saw a t-shirt out on the street that said "I am what I am because of how apes behave" they'd probably interpret it as being about evolution and a rejection of creationism.
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Have you driven a fnord... lately?
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I didn't realize we were a bunch of robots looking purely to optimize our efficiency. I like wobbly windows. Why? Because it looks cool. It's the same reason I pay more for clothes and my car. Now, I would still like to mention that Ubuntu does not come with wobbly Windows on by default. That is a feature you have to enable, which, judging from your post, I guess you did.
I heard you recently voted a new president who may submit a patch.
Yeah, but it touches about 30 unrelated systems and runs magic code as root.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
now all you have to do is reliably and legally run all software that runs on windows
I can tell you right now that I have been using Linux exclusively since 1995. I have not missed *any* Windows software.
I have always had a good office suite. Applix, then Star Office, now OpenOffice. I have always had netscape. I have always had modern tools of the time.
So, why would I want to run Windows software that is inherently more buggy, not designed for my platform of choice, and does not give me the freedom to inspect what it does?
Answer: I don't want Windows software on my Linux box and I miss nothing.
XFCE is nice, but I think Fluxbox is nicer still, especially when used with XFCE apps. It loads in less than a second but still manages to look rather nice with transparency and stuff. The best bit though, aside from its fleety-nimbleness, is that it allows user-definable, chained keyboard shortcuts (I have {Alt+x, Alt+z} mapped to 'screen -Rd', for example). It's freaking awesome.
I apologise for evangelizing, but I just love it so damn much.
Mod parent up. Almost all attacks against eye candy are based on a false dicothomy between beauty and functionality. Wobbly windows are not useful? Well, probably neither is your wallpaper. Or the painting on your house. Or good-looking clothes. And as much as it may sound surprising, woobly windows do not get in my way, I like them and nowadays I feel unconfortable when I have to use another system that does not have them. Different people, different tastes.
Going all "eh, I prefer functionality" is like ignoring a incredibly hot girl because "since she's beautiful, she's probably dumb". One thing does not exclude the other, specially considering Compiz/KWin are remarkably fine-tunable.
WindowBlinds, huh?
Ahhhhh! My eyes!
http://www.draginol.com/images/WindowBlinds6screenshots_CE30/image_10.png
Wow, after seeing that desktop, I see why Ubuntu went with brown instead of bright, fluorescent orange :)
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Really? No problems with those particular tasks? video problems due to Vista's design are well-known, as well as numerous other performance problems such as file copying while listening to music.
And what is RA3? Red Alert 3? If you're wanting to run a program designed for WINDOWS you need Wine installed first. Linux isn't Windows, which is apparently very hard for lots of people (like you) to understand. After that, you just pop the disc in, and install. You might consider playing a better programmed game, though... even under Windows, the entire C&C series network code and performance sucks balls.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
This depends on your definition of "killer app". Right now I'm using LaTeX, Mathematica, a number of network applications, occasionally compilers and so-forth all on Fedora. Office apps don't show up in my sphere. And then there are the compute clusters downstairs --- all Linux-based. Linux is a fantastic platform for technical computing, which for me has always been its "killer app".
"Another Linux roadblock gone eh."
How about Blu-Ray?
Linux isn't Windows, which is apparently very hard for lots of people (like you) to understand.
I've never understood why people have no trouble understanding that with a Mac they can't use Windows software. But with a linux distro, they scream that they can't install the free* smiley pack they downloaded. This is the sole reason I haven't moved most of my family to linux and thus freeing myself from having to remove viruses and spyware every month.
*Free to install, and only US $60 to remove all the spyware that program it came with found!
Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
Exactly. Anything that makes the UI slower does decrease functionality. That's why I immediately disable all window / menu effects as soon as I install windows. I want the menu to be shown instantly so that I can click on what I want. I have no desire to sit there for 1/2 a second while it fades in or floats across the screen or whatever this year's idiotic new idea is.
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
Which isn't a problem except that you use "slurp is good because it helps the metaphor" in your defense of it.
You're quoting me? I never said that. I think the whole document/window/desktop metaphor stuff gets in the way of providing organizational mechanisms that possibly "break" some stupid metaphor. If something works, I don't care if it behaves within the bounds of a "desktop" metaphor. Or if something uses a "slurp" animation when such things don't occur in nature. It's useful organizational mechanism and happens to look good. All that matters to me is that it's useful.
The wobbly windows, on the other hand, only look good. They serve no other purpose.
A user new to OSX might find it difficult to find where a document went after clicking the minimize button if not for the animation. A user new to KDE wouldn't notice the absence of wobbly windows.
It's when the eye candy gets in the way of the functionality that it becomes a problem. (To stretch your analogy, you can never go out with your beautiful girlfriend, because she takes all night to put her make-up and clothes on.)
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
Actually, what I told my Ubuntu box to do was to look on the network for a printer. Even easier than putting a disk in. Then, when the printer became really flaky and stopped talking in TCP, and only in Appletalk, I told it to look for a CUPS server on my wife's iMac. Still easier than putting a disk in.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ubuntu for somebody who didn't specifically want a specifically Windows program. It's ready to roll from the start.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Compiz is probably the most customizable WM-ish thing there is. If you don't like bling, turn the bling off. But, there are a lot of useful gems in there that are both non-distracting and useful. Plugins like Scale and Expo don't get in your face until you decide to use them. Even window shadows are useful if you are using multiple desktops. The shadows help you acclimate yourself to the window depths faster when you switch desktops (which means you need less bling to understand this concept).
I use mostly text based apps on my machine (mutt/newsbeuter/irssi and Firefox with vimperator) but, I still run gnome with Compiz. The reason is that it offers more and often easier ways to do what I want. Compiz has two main purposes, 1) To do cool things that aren't useful. 2) To do useful things that change the way you use your desktop.
I don't have any buttons on my window frames (no close/min/max buttons) because with compiz (and a good machine), they are pointless. I generally have about 15-20 windows open on a 2x2 desktop. I can see all of them with a single keystroke and select the one I want to view in multiple ways. If I'm using the touchpad during some light browsing, I have screen corners that make it unnecessary to use the keyboard. If I'm coding, I have vi like keybinds that can do the same thing.
Nothing else offers the functionality/configurability of compiz. But, it takes some time to make it work exactly how you want if you are a power user. The real question is, are you willing to accept how people think you should use your machine or are you willing to spend some time tweaking it to your needs. For the latter, there is literally nothing better than compiz.
I Sir, will have you know I'm a civilized primate and only fling poo at others during football season.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
You're an outlier.
Ad Hominem - You seek to label me in an attempt to diminish my opinion. FUD Warning FUD warning Danger Will Robinson.
It's only been since about 2003 or 2004 that Linux has been good enough for me to consider using it exclusively.
That may be your opinion, and you have every right too it, but Windows has NEVER been good enough for me.
That's just for software quality,
Nice generalization. Which software would that be? Come on, dig deep make up something.
and completely discounting software configuration,
Yes, because we know that "configuration" was such a problem in 2002.
I don't, in fact, remember configuring anything per se most of the time. Sure, databases and web servers had there setup stuff, they do on every platform, but everything else was just as easy or easier than Windows. Star Office and Open Office just installed and worked. What are you talking about?
which can be a nightmare to do from scratch,
Yes, I know, I've installed many versions of Windows professionally. If you don't have the right driver for your Dell system, you'll spend hours finding the right one.
given the state of documentation for some programs.
Yes, those Microsoft programming manuals and the SDK/DDK docs are a joke.
I wouldn't expect the average computer user to be *capable* of configuring a Linux system from scratch, let alone wanting to, and finding the time to do so.
I wouldn't expect the average computer user to install application software without the help of their guru friend, because they don't.
As Linux continues to mature,
Well, 50% for a half truth. To say "continues to mature" you are implying that it is not yet mature, and I'd like to have some sort of quantitative metric for that opinion. Linux is very mature, and is keeping up and even out pacing Microsoft technologically.
but there will always be *some* program that keeps *some* segment of the population from being able to use the OS that you have smugly called home these past 14 years.
Yes, as long as people *need* (want actually) a particular vendor's "Windows only" program, they will be stuck with Windows (or at least Wine or VMWare), but that is not a problem with Linux. It is a problem with ISVs.
If you look at systems like Skype you see an ISV and service provider making real money from Linux users. As other ISVs realize that Linux is a real and viable market, there will be fewer and fewer Windows only programs. Right now, Linux software vendors that have a real "value" are making money in this economy. Its a pretty well kept secret.
One of the differences between Windows and Linux is the revenue model. Linux software operates on the *new* revenue model, Windows operates off the *old* revenue model. For instance, The old time Windows revenue model is you buy a box, and you pay for newer boxes to fix bugs. The Linux revenue model is you get the software for free and pay for services.
There is money in the service model, but the problem for Microsoft is that you have to add value to make money. Microsoft's products are all dead. They have no killer application to drive a value based model. Why would anyone pay for Microsoft Office if it weren't for their monopoly? Once the monopoly is broken sufficiently, they will become irrelevant very quickly.
The "Next Big Thing" tm. will be OEMs creating their own versions of Linux on VERY LOW COST systems like sub-notebooks and netbooks. HP is doing it now, and ASUS will be back with a new Linux version of the EeePC, just you see.