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Why Japan Hates the iPhone
Ponca City, We love you writes "With a high level of technical sophistication, critical customers, and high innovation rate, Japan is the toughest cell phone market in the world. So it's not surprising that although Apple is the third-largest mobile supplier in the world, selling 10 million units in 2008, in Japan the iPhone is selling so poorly it's being offered for free. The country is famous for being ahead of its time when it comes to technology, and the iPhone just doesn't cut it. For example, Japanese handset users are into video and photos — and the iPhone has neither a video camera, multimedia text messaging, nor a TV tuner. Pricing plans in Japan are also very competitive, and the iPhone's $60-and-up monthly plan is too high compared to competitors; a survey lat year showed that among Japanese consumers, 91% didn't want to buy an iPhone. The cellular weapon of choice in Japan would be the Panasonic P905i, a fancy cellphone that doubles as a 3-inch TV and features 3-G, GPS, a 5.1-megapixel camera, and motion sensors for Wii-style games. 'When I show this to visitors from the US, they're amazed,' according to journalist Nobi Hayashi, who adds, 'Carrying around an iPhone in Japan would make you look pretty lame.'"
In Japan, only old people use iPhones?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Oh no, it has become self-aware!
Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
Japanese products have been so over-the-top and over-engineered for the past 25 years, this hardly comes as any surprise. I mean, just take a look at the current Honda Civic dashboard and compare it to a German car's dashboard. The Honda is all gadget-y and digital-y and the German car is just, well, Teutonic-ly svelte. Maybe the saying "there's no accounting for bad taste" doesn't ring true in Japan.
For one, the Japanese are well ahead of the West in terms of cellphone technology, as witnessed by the description of the P905i. For the Japanese, the 3G iPhone is old hat.
In addition, unlike in the U.S., where we love Japanese products, the Japanese hate our products. They're very biased towards home-grown stuff. They typically steer clear of imports. Imports are generally more expensive in Japan due to tariffs and such, too.
Have you ever noticed that they speak some strange version of the Mexican language and look unlike us? Also their food is expensive because we eat cows which are large, plentiful and docile animals, while Japanise people only eat fearsome and rare SHARKS to boast of their manliness. In conclusion, Japan is a far away place somewhere in Mexico where smart people do not eat cows. Thank you will you marry me.
The iPhone is inferior in lots of ways. It has NO stereo bluetooth support! It also lacks bluetooth IP networking for tethering to your laptop, and it doesn't use the standard USB mini-B cable.
The iPhone needs a lot of improvement before I would consider it.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
While I love the iPhone and think it's damn cool, things like this are (to me) just another piece of proof that the North American (and western society, in general) cell phone markets are set up to discourage innovation and advancement and are, instead, designed to ensure lock-in with particular vendors and suppliers. We _NEED_ regulators to step in and start putting companies in their places. That will open up innovation and encourage manufacturers to make better products to compete for consumer dollars. Also, regulators need to force carriers to provide better plans at reasonable rates. But, since a lot of people are getting rich off of the current stifling system, I won't be holding my breath for that sort of change to happen... We will continue to remain behind the times.
*in your best schoolgirl voice*
Kawaii~~~
or alternatively
*breathing heavily and drooling*
Moe~~~
Everyone still drools over the iPhone as if it has every feature of every phone and more! When it's just an on par smart device. Sure it has a lot of great features and the app store from apple, but there are far better phones in existence and its sure not going to get people who are being described as the peak of technological civilization(true or not).
I am happy with my HTC Vogue, it plays music...and has internet...I think it even makes calls...oh wait its the sprint network...so no, no calls...
Because we're at the behest of the phone companies, not the other way around. They can comfortably sit on technology, and decide when to release/market it for the most $$$.
Then not only are you stuck with older technology, you're locked out of exploiting that technology to its fullest extent, by the same companies who have a secondary market peddling crappy closed source software.
Roll on OpenMoko.
and features 3-G, GPS, a 5.1-megapixel camera, and motion sensors for Wii-style games. 'When I show this to visitors from the US, they're amazed,'
Android G1 owners wouldn't be "amazed". After all, it they are describing a G1.
Depending on whether it's set to vibrate?
"'Carrying around an iPhone in Japan would make you look pretty lame.'"
God, how I wish I could get that Japanese cellphone with built-in 3" TV (Panasonic P905i) because I've always chosen cellphones out of regard of what Japanese teenagers might think of me! :-p
Sorry, I'll just stick with the iPhone, and upgrade to a phone based on Android when it matures. I would have love to have gone with an openmoko phone but that platform was pretty much stillborn. :(
Japanese cellphones are way way ahead of ours? Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that third-world countries have faster interweb access than we do - without bandwidth caps. This is old news.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
"Japan is immune to Reality Distortion Field"
multimedia text messaging
Japan has never even used "text messaging" as in the horribly lame and limited SMS - they use normal email for that. I don't think anybody is missing some kludgy extension to a protocol they never used in the first place, either.
It's totally true... their gadgets are indeed bleeding edge, but American consumers wouldn't put up with the buggy nature of their gadgetry. We eventually get much of the same stuff, after the Japanese public has been kind enough to beta test it for us :)
By the way, even by slashdot standards... this is REALLY old news. Forbes was claiming the iPhone was doomed in Japan over a year ago. If it succeeded despite all of that, well THAT would be some news.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
We don't get these kinds of telephones in Europe or the US because the... Wait for it... They...
SUCK!
No, seriously, they absolutely suck. I've been using the phones here for a few years, and one of the main features they have is that they're an implementation of a checklist of features you'll never use more than one or twice, all crammed into the least user-friendly UI you could imagine.
They have absolutely no sense of UI design, and being so used to dealing with crappy interfaces they're not even aware of the possibility nor the advantages of a well designed one. Seriously, have you ever looked at one of their webpages?
Call it taste, or what ever. But the reality is that the iPhone and phones from e.g. Nokia just don't do it well here in Japan, and neither of the two companies should try to change or they'll lose what gives them customers in the west.
Oh, and BTW... Softbank's (particulary their iPhone's) subscription plan sucks.
- These characters were randomly selected.
Kanji input on the iPhone is as good as the other cell phones. Given that text messaging is a major use for cell phones, this is a big problem.
The UI on the iPhone blows away Japanese cell phones (I live in Japan and I use them all the time). The reason the iPhone isn't taking off as well in Japan is the kanji support and Softbank's piss poor marketing support. They have not done a good job of differentiating the iPhone from the other touch screen phones and, in fact, SoftBank carries several other touch screen phones which is confusing.
Although the Japanese and a number of Asian countries are "ahead of us" (read USA) when it comes to technology, most Americans I know of still regard the USA to be the most technologically advanced country in the world. It baffles me.
Just last week, I was in Shanghai and I can say that from the Magnetic Levitation train to the technology that runs and manages public transit, those folks are way ahead of us.
When I rode the subway in New York on return to USA, you could not blame me for thinking I am in a country of the fifties. What's happened to the USA?
The Panasonic P905i wouldn't appeal to me at all. I really don't think of a cell phone that doubles as a portable TV is particularly innovative; I think it's rather sad.
I saw this all over Japan, people watching TV on the subway... and meanwhile the Internet access and web capabilities of this phone, and others in Japan, are quite poor relative to what the iPhone or G1 can do.
I'm sorry, but being able to watch live TV on a cell phone is not "OMG, it's so advanced, I want it" in my book.
I'll channel the average Apple fanboy and just say that copy-and-paste is an unnecessary feature that only makes things more difficult to use. You should be glad there's no cumbersome copy-and-paste feature! Apple knows best.
'Carrying around an iPhone in Japan would make you look pretty lame.'
It doesn't do much for your reputation in the U.S. either...
I like to use the old Bluetooth headset analogy.
Old Techie: "You know how lumberjacks will sometimes put a big red X on trees?"
Young Techie (who is wearing a bluetooth headset): "Like, yeah."
O.T.: "That big red X is a sign to other lumberjacks that the tree bearing it needs to be culled from the population."
Y.T.: "Culled. That's not really a word, is it?"
O.T.: "The bluetooth headset is the human equivalent."
/s/bluetooth\ headset/iPhone/g
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
Japan's culture of usability is "different" from ours to say the least.
Having worked in the electronics industry, I can tell you that Japanese users place high value on features and technical complexity. Mastering a technically complex device is viewed as an accomplishment.
Look at some of the electronics designed for the Japanese market - rows and rows of tiny buttons, incomprehensible menus, difficult to read displays; then look at electronics designed for the US market - touch screens, big legible fonts and buttons, simple - easy to navigate menus.
(Most of) western society places a high value on ease of use over functionality. Apple does very well in those markets. Japanese culture is very detail oriented and places value on technical complexity and function.
It's a culture thing, and Apple needs to understand that if they want to succeed in the Japanese market.
-ted
Because all these articles are talking rubbish. Japan is not ahead of us here, they just don't want the same thing as us. I explicitly don't want a phone that's a 3" TV, I don't want a phone that's a 5 megapixel camera with a shit lens, I don't want a phone that's a video camera, I don't want a phone that can send MMSes (especially when it can send email).
I want a phone that's simple to use, beautiful, and gets on with being a phone, which the iPhone is absolutely ideal for.
p.s. I *definitely* don't want a phone shaped like hello kitty.
Apple is in absolutely no way the "third-largest mobile supplier in the world".
Not even close.
The top are: Nokia (40%), Samsung (14%), Motorola (14%), Sony Ericsson (9%) and LG (7%). Apple is well down in the single digits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone
On the other hand they have captured a surprisingly large share of the revenue, but only because the iPhone is a high margin product and they don't compete in the high volume area.
>>>American consumers wouldn't put up with the buggy nature of Japanese gadgetry.
Or the incessant obsolescence. Buy a MUSE analog HDTV in 1990, and have it obsoleted ten years later (broadcasts discontinued). Buy an Enhanced Definition Betamax around the same timeframe, and watch it go belly-up in 2003. Invest heavily in karaoke laserdiscs, and watch them be discontinued so you can no longer play your huge library.
There are advantages to waiting - like saving money not investing in doomed products.
Also I think obsessing about shiny new toys is not healthy - but that's just my own personal opinion. While it's true the Japanese had access to ED Betamax, and American consumers did not, I think we survived just fine. It was no great loss.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
They gave their lives only to become a nation of dudes with man purses. If they only knew before. Or maybe they saw it coming and decided death was better.
That would be a good theory were it true, but the fact is the US cell phone market has always been even further behind than just skipping the beta phase. Every time I'd visit and go into a shop selling mobiles I'd have to chuckle to myself at the stuff they were selling which was years behind what we had even in Europe, let alone Japan.
This is why the original iPhone was a flop everywhere but the US (yes it was even a flop in Europe), people were looking at it and thinking what's the big deal when it's camera, it's memory, it's lack of custom apps, lack of MMS, lack of 3G, lack of GPS and so on made it a laughably poor device, whilst in the US it was pretty state of the art.
Move forward to the iPhone 3G and Apple have realise their mistakes and have moved forward a bit, but as stated in the summary, the iPhone still lacks features that many in Europe and Japan have come to expect.
The US is a world leader on most things, but cell phones are one of the few products the US was simply years behind on, often never even getting some of the high end Nokia models we enjoyed in Europe For example, did the US ever even get the Nokia 7650 in the end? a phone that in 2001 had a camera, could play Doom, browse the web, run Java apps- in fact, everything the original iPhone had minus touch screen but plus a whole bunch of other features (MMS, custom apps).
Apple realised the mobile gap was in the US and took advantage of that, they couldn't compete immediately with the companies like Nokia that had been doing it years and the US gave them a place to get started without ever needing to do so. Once their foot was in the door they could fairly quickly move on with their technology to produce a phone that was a little more attractive in Europe/Japan, if they keep it up and keep going they'll do well.
At the end of the day though, the summary comes as no suprise as it really is quite similar to the story here in Europe. It's not to slag Apple off, because if the US was as uptodate on mobile technology as Europe it's questionable whether Apple could've got it's foot in the door as easily as it did and more fool Nokia et. al. for not taking the opportunity to exploit the rather backwards US cell phone market themselves. I think this is also why the iPhone has the following it does, not necessarily because it's any better than other phones outside North America- it still lacks a lot of features European and Japanese phones have, but because it's a decent mid-range phone in Europe/Japan and more importantly, because it is light years ahead of much of what the US ever really had before it.
i have a blackberry with built in gps
the gps is disabled. why? because verizon wants me to buy their retarded cell phone tower triangulation location service for $10/ month. the gps chip is sitting right on my phone. free. locked. i downloaded the free gmail app (amazing they let me do that, huh?), and all i can do is a get a rough approximation of my location. i've got the hardware, on the phone, to get the free signal. and verizon won't let me
fucking evil, fucking retarded. it does nothing, dear verizon, except fill me with a burning hatred for you
now i can understand a cell company competing with the services of another cell company, and blocking this or that signal that is a PAID service
but when they go out and start squashing well-established FREE signal services, WHEN THE HARDWARE TO GET IT IS ALREADY ON THE FUCKING PHONE, i begin to channel my inner communist. that is the most evil retarded bullshit there is. free market business practices at their most evil
so i agree with you, i can see them blocking the free hdtv digital signals. 100% possible
the only redoubt i can consider is that, being a free market, t-mobile, sprint, etc., should unlock free gps and unlock free tv signals, if they aren't already, and make a marketing bonanza on that fact
you'd see verizon quickly lose customers, and quietly reverse their fucking evil shit sucking behavior
they already lost me, i totally hate them for that, and have told them in no uncertain terms
evil motherfuckers. blocking free gps in order to sell me their half assed triangulation service. the hardware is already built into THE DAMN PHONE you fucking asswipes
die you sleazy shitsucking verizon, die
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
When I found out that the iPhone lacked MMS I couldn't help but laugh. No MMS? Seriously? How can a mobile phone be released and not support that oh so basic functionality. Every single phone released has MMS but not the iPhone. Why exactly?
ALso, for whatever reason, people seemed less impressed by its fancy pants touch scrolling UI, and more interested in simple lists they could click through, and being able to pull down over the air TV versus d/l videos.
Personally, I agree with my Japanese friends; I'm not a huge fan (I like a keyboard).
But, it's interesting to note that almost every expat American I saw on my last trip had an iPhone, though -- so there might be just more appeal, culturally, to Amercians and westerners for some reason. There's certainly no shortage of cult-of-Mac people in Japan, but it didn't seem to translate to the phone.
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.
The Japanese word transliterated "kawaii" is usually translated "cute" in dictionaries, and is composed of two kanji (borrowed Chinese characters), the first meaning "to be able to, to be allowed to" and the second meaning "to love" or "love". The Chinese word written the same way (ke3 ai4) is also translated as "cute" and the implied meaning from the order of the characters/words is "loveable".
Yes, that would most likely be the word used by Japanese tweenies and teenaged (and even older) ladies. Just remember, this is the nation and culture that brought us "Hello Kitty".
The Japanese cell market sounds a lot like the Korean market, which makes me think that it's not just "features instead of UI" that makes the Japanese dislike the iPhone, but instead the UI itself. In Korea, when someone wants to get a specific feature of his cell phone, which may be through several "ugly" list menus, he flips open the phone, takes about a quarter second to hit the memorized sequence of hotkeys for menu choices on his hardware keypad without looking at the phone, and by the time he gets it out of his pocket and up to his head the feature is waiting for him. An American with an iPhone will take five more seconds to navigate through pretty menus to get to the same thing. The iPhone looks more friendly and advanced, but the guy with the archaic lists navigates his UI 10x faster. Even Americans, at least the more techy ones, can get used to their phones to the extent that the UI which looks clunky to us at first actually _works_ much better for them than an iPhone's can.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
This is why the original iPhone was a flop everywhere but the US (yes it was even a flop in Europe), people were looking at it and thinking what's the big deal when it's camera, it's memory, it's lack of custom apps, lack of MMS, lack of 3G, lack of GPS and so on made it a laughably poor device, whilst in the US it was pretty state of the art.
I was traveling overseas when the original iPhone came out and people were going crazy for it.
Not because it had good features, but because it was a status symbol.
Mobile shops were hawking it for 2x retail and selling out every time they got a new box of iPhones.
The mobile stores all had waiting lists, even those kiosks in the mall.
Having one meant either someone hand carried it from America or you paid >$1000 US
/But that's just my anecdotal experience.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Being an original iPhone adopter from the U.S. I'd say it's strength isn't in its features, but in its usability. As stated 1000 times, the iPhone interface, much like the MacOS interface, is beyond any of its competitors, at least in the U.S. Intuitive, smooth, with good feedback (though not tactile -- and I've taken to sighing when I hear the tappity-tap of a blackberry user in a theater or classroom compared to the silent keyboard of the iPhone).
Dodging the easy car analogy, the iPhone is a partner who knows what you want, instead of someone who can offer anything you want.
To each their own, I guess. I just got back from Switzerland, and had one person comment on how fancy my phone was. She had heard of iPhones but I guess had never seen one, or an iPod Touch either. This is from a family with 5 iPods.
:-( Things here are even worse.
Maybe, as others have stated, Apple designed a product which would sell well in its primary market, the US. There's a "duh" moment for you. Yes, other markets have better mobile phones and coverage, but as a Canadian I don't feel bad for you Americans
I have to say though that given what little I've seen of the Panasonic P905i, I'd take the iPhone any day. A phone with a giant antenna and TV access? No thanks. It goes back to cultural preferences once again.
www.clarke.ca
You'd be hard-pressed to find ANY Apple fanboy saying "it's not necessary." Most are still "what the crap?" themselves, and go so far as to say "I guess they're working on a new system that will change expectations as to what 'cutting' and 'pasting' means to mobile devices and to the 'cloud,' and aren't going to bring it out until they're ready.
Not to mention Apple's been pretty hard-line as to the 'sandbox' concept for apps, and dramatic clipboard alterations would start giving people access to all sorts of potential monkey-business.
So while they may "understand" on a "logistical for Apple" level, effectively NO ONE says it's unnecessary, or doesn't find themselves missing it.
The user "twitter" is a twitter sockpuppet.
Isn't that an infinite loop? If he is his own sock puppet, what is inside the sock? I now have this vision of an endless sock puppet with nothing but sock puppets inside, puppet as puppeteer...
And now my brain hurts...
Thanks
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
There are a lot of American things that seem to be chic in Japan, but technology has never really been one of them. It's like trying to impress a German with your precision-engineered American luxury car or something.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Actually, I'm always quite mystified by comments like that. In what way, other than perhaps a slightly wider form factor, does the iPhone "require" a second hand to use effectively? It's certainly speedier to have two thumbs available for typing, the ability to use multi-finger gestures like pinching... But if you're just quickly using it, in what way is it difficult?
The ability to touch-text is common here in the UK and I'd expect even more-so in Japan. I'd never buy a phone without a proper input pad for that very reason - touch-texting whilst pissed in a club and having a conversation is essential!
Nick
I heard iPhones get angry if you anthropomorphize them.
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
True, and there are things about Japanese culture which make their cel phone market very different from ours. One of the biggest things is the way in which the Japanese commute to and from work: Japan has a much higher use of public transportation than does the U.S., and the Japanese are heavy users of rail travel. This means, according to the last figures I checked, the average Japanese working person has an hour commute to and from work which is, essentially, free time. Contrast this to the U.S., in which the majority of people drive to work.
To me, this explains a lot of the Japanese demand for the use of video and TV on the cel phones, and from the cel phone networks: they have the time and inclination to use those services. Contrast this to the U.S., in which people have to (supposedly) concentrate on their driving; we have lots of talk radio here, something to listen to during that commute which requires no hands.
Add to this all of the other commuting the Japanese do via rail and you have a market which just doesn't exist in the U.S. I think this holds true in Europe as well, which also has a higher incidence of public transportation use than the U.S. We drive here, a lot, and that niche just doesn't exist. Most Americans get their online TV and video either at work or at home. Which is to say that population and work patterns influence technology adoption and use as much as, or more than, GUI design and technical achievement.
At least that's my theory.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
That kanji spelling of kawaii is ateji (= employing kanji that sort of match the sound and meaning of a word, but have no grounds in its etymology). The word "kawaii" comes from "kahohayusi", which then evolved into "kahahayusi", "kahayusi", "kawayusi", and finally into "kawaii". "Kahohayusi" is a compound of "kaho" , meaning "face" (kao in modern Japanese), and "hayusi", meaning "bright".
;)
Much like "mabayusi" (=> modern "mabusii") indicates a brightness so strong that you have to avert your eyes, "kahohayusi" literally describes a sight that you can't face. By metaphor, the original meaning of the word was "pitiable", "a sorry sight". This meaning is retained in the modern word "kawaisou", while the meaning of "kawaii" changed into "lovely, cute".
As for how that happened, we can conjecture something like this: small, weak things are pitiful, but they can also elicit a feeling of wanting to help them; the reaction changes from "turning your face away" to "extending your hand", so to speak, and thus the feeling becomes one of attraction.
(if you don't believe me, check the Gogen Yurai Jiten)
Who knows, maybe someday Japanese buyers will be moved by the pitiful, weak iPhone, and grant it a place inside their hearts.
My cellular weapon of choice, of course is an iPhone and my cellular weapon of choice to the foreigners is INFOBAR2 and I don't even dare to charge my P905i these days.
This from the guy misquoted in both the article and summary. The author actually asked for his opinion, but then took something from an old interview.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
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