RIAA Sued For Fraud, Abuse, & "Sham Litigation"

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "It's been a rough week for the RIAA as massive layoffs are about to cost many employees their job. On top of that, the anti-piracy outfit is being sued in North Carolina for abusing the legal system in its war on piracy, particularly for civil conspiracy, deceptive trade practices, trespassing and computer fraud in SONY BMG Music Entertainment v. Moursy. Named along with the record companies as defendants on the counterclaims are Safenet (formerly known as MediaSentry) and the RIAA. This case first started out as 'LaFace Records v. Does 1-38' until the court required the RIAA to break it up into 38 separate cases, at which point it morphed into 'SONY BMG Music Entertainment v. Doe.' Only after the RIAA finally got its 'expedited' discovery did it become SONY v. Moursy. And from the looks of things, it has a long, long way to go. The RIAA hasn't even filed its answer to the counterclaims yet, but is making a motion to dismiss them on the grounds of legal insufficiency. Sound like a good investment of record company resources, anyone?"

Comments

Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[gavron]

Thanks for staying on top of it, Ray!!!

Ehud

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[gravos]

I'd really like seeing them push the angle about their corporate attempts at controlling world art and culture, turning it into the bland, government approved, Pepsi and MTV generation and focus group designed, placid american/teen idol bands, and flooding us with that insipid product over controlled media.

That's really what the RIAA's fight is about, controlling the media, itself, and thereby the content on it, which is used to market false images and idols rather than any real talent that could inspire, consol or rally.

They're giving up the court battle only because they realize now it's cheaper, and entirely possible if not probable, to buy off the medium itself, once again, by having the willing ISPs in their pockets.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[kheldan]

You took the words right out of my mouth, with that subject line. Seriously.
The RIAA has been swaggering around like they're Jack Bauer for years now, with all the self-justification that goes along with the reference, but instead of chasing terrorists, or even true "criminals" (copyright violation is really a civil law matter, not a criminal law matter), they're chasing down little kids, moms or grandmas who don't even know what BitTorrent or P2P is, let alone consciously making a decision to use it (kids or grandkids in this case), etc.; if they were chasing down Russian mobsters selling knock-off CDs to fund their other illegal activities then I can see some of it, but they're NOT. Even most of the artists they're claiming to protect don't want much of anything to do with them! It's about time the RIAA legal machine was dismantled, and the pieces destroyed, preferably with fire. They're a relic of a time and a business model whose usefulness and relevance has long since past; it's time for the music industry to stop being in denial about it, embrace the fact that downloading of music is a reality, a genie that can't be put back into it's bottle, and stop beating a dead horse.

Oh, and memo to the music industry: Please start backing and producing music that doesn't suck, k? We're sick to death of the crap you've been turning out lately.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

Now THIS is the kind of stuff I like to hear!!! Thanks for the update Ray!!!

In my book the real thanks go to these guys, who took on this case, for the sake of principle, and have been doing a first-rate job ever since. They've taken about 15 penniless college students under their wings, and have really taken the fight to the RIAA. Lawyers like Steve Robertson and the Robertson Medlin firm bring honor to my profession.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

You took the words right out of my mouth, with that subject line. Seriously. The RIAA has been swaggering around like they're Jack Bauer [wikimedia.org] for years now, with all the self-justification that goes along with the reference, but instead of chasing terrorists, or even true "criminals" (copyright violation is really a civil law matter, not a criminal law matter), they're chasing down little kids, moms or grandmas who don't even know what BitTorrent or P2P is, let alone consciously making a decision to use it (kids or grandkids in this case), etc.; if they were chasing down Russian mobsters selling knock-off CDs to fund their other illegal activities then I can see some of it, but they're NOT. Even most of the artists they're claiming to protect don't want much of anything to do with them! It's about time the RIAA legal machine was dismantled, and the pieces destroyed, preferably with fire. They're a relic of a time and a business model whose usefulness and relevance has long since past; it's time for the music industry to stop being in denial about it, embrace the fact that downloading of music is a reality, a genie that can't be put back into it's bottle, and stop beating a dead horse. Oh, and memo to the music industry: Please start backing and producing music that doesn't suck, k? We're sick to death of the crap you've been turning out lately.

Yep, in all 40,000 cases I've never once seen one that involved actual copyright 'piracy' (the term they are so fond of throwing around). The only real pirates, other than the ones from Somalia, are the RIAA lawyers, who are engaged in a racket akin to extortion.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Ken Broadfoot]

You said:

"Oh, and memo to the music industry: Please start backing and producing music that doesn't suck, k? We're sick to death of the crap you've been turning out lately."

Truer words have not been typed into a computer keyboard!

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[CodeBuster]

if they were chasing down Russian mobsters selling knock-off CDs to fund their other illegal activities then I can see some of it

In Putin's Russia the complaints of an American business organization, and especially one concerned with copyright, are going to be ignored and probably not even politely ignored. I doubt the Russian mafia is heavily involved in software piracy, there simply isn't a lot of money in knockoff CDs compared to what their other more lucrative criminal enterprises, such as drugs, extortion/protection, and guns, bring in. If the are involved then it is probably lower level functionaries and associates. Either way, those people are effectively beyond the reach of US laws and they could give a crap about copyright infringement. Those ex-KGB/FSB and their former Spetsnaz enforcers make American organized criminals look like boyscouts. If you cross the Russian mafia or get in their way then they just kill you plain and simple (i.e. they "settle out of court"). The only people on the planet more violent than the Russian mob are probably Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. The RIAA wouldn't dare go after such people, even if they could, because if they did and caused trouble then their executives and attorneys would become marked men when traveling abroad.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Microlith]

That's really what the RIAA's fight is about, controlling the media

Is it really? Seems to me if you're referring to TV, Radio and Film they already control it.

which is used to market false images and idols rather than any real talent

Ah yeah, because the ones they market are FALSE and the ones that you've never heard of are REAL.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Bob54321]

Yeah, these guys are heroes. The MPAA should organise a movie to be made about them.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Perp Atuitie]

Do the plaintiffs need donations to cover costs? If so, where?

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[rhizome]

I'd really like seeing them push the angle about their corporate attempts at controlling world art and culture, turning it into the bland, government approved, Pepsi and MTV generation and focus group designed, placid american/teen idol bands, and flooding us with that insipid product over controlled media.

Yeah, um...good luck with that one.

That's really what the RIAA's fight is about, controlling the media, itself, and thereby the content on it, which is used to market false images and idols rather than any real talent that could inspire, consol or rally.

Is that a bible-thump I hear, way in the background? False idols?

Here's another angle to consider: the companies that comprise the RIAA do not care about the content. They would just as soon sell you backwards recordings of Niels Bohr lectures as they would a solid hour of Robin Williams going "durrrr" if it made money. What the RIAA is concerned with is distribution and licensing of whatever it is that is being produced. That's it, the content is entirely secondary and merely a vehicle for acquiring dollars.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Raul654]

That comment was hilarious - I wish I had mod points for you.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[NicknamesAreStupid]

Actually, this is more bad news for the artists, who will wind-up footing their own lawyers' legal bills. Truly a damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't squeeze play for something that deserves neither. Hopefully, a lot of great artistic work will come from it, as the seemingly endless suffering should inspire mountains of artistic works.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[causality]

Is that a bible-thump I hear, way in the background? False idols?

I'm not sure what the GP intended by that concept, but I can tell you what it means to me. "Idolatry", when separated from all of the religious language (not such an easy task...) has a very simple meaning. It just means giving undue importance to something, or making a big deal out of nothing. To make up an example that I hope illustrates the point, consider a completely obsessed sports fan who knows the entire lineup of every football team by heart and watches every single game while his wife is neglected and starved for attention. Now, in the proper "order of things", his wife should be more important to him than the antics of professional athletes, for one represents love and commitment while the other represents entertainment. In this case, the man has made an idol out of football, even though he's not bowing down and worshipping anyone or anything.

Now consider the way marketing is done. There always has to be a big deal made of something that, most of the time, is really not very important or significant. It's always LATEST, FASTEST, GREATEST and there always has to be some kind of excitement attached to it. It's seldom "hey, maybe people will like this" and instead it's BEST THING EVER, BUY RIGHT NOW!!!! Few things that are marketed this way are essential to life and few of them would naturally inspire this sort of passion or enthusiasm; thus it is entirely artificial. There are only so many hours in a day, so someone who buys into the artificial hype would have to do so at the expense of something else that could have been given emphasis instead.

Here's another angle to consider: the companies that comprise the RIAA do not care about the content. They would just as soon sell you backwards recordings of Niels Bohr lectures as they would a solid hour of Robin Williams going "durrrr" if it made money. What the RIAA is concerned with is distribution and licensing of whatever it is that is being produced. That's it, the content is entirely secondary and merely a vehicle for acquiring dollars.

True, except that there is one concern about content that impacts the RIAAs of the world, which is the lowering of standards of excellence. If the public thinks something is crap, then it won't sell. Get the public conditioned to accept mostly crap and you can then sell more and more of your products without concern about the relative rarity of true excellence or the higher production costs that it might demand (due to taking more time to produce, if nothing else). Think of most of the popular music that is promoted by the RIAA, how little of it has any lasting or enduring value, how much of it does not require a ton of musical talent to write or to perform, and how the lyrical content is mostly immature prattle with no deep spiritual meanings and no ability to challenge its audience to think in new ways.

The advantages for the RIAA are that such musicians are plentiful. When a one-hit wonder or a mediocre band gets old and stops selling very well, there are thousands more ready and eager to take its place, waiting for their turn in the spotlight. The perceived advantge for the public is an inexhaustible supply of "new" music (though much of it is formulaic) so they can quickly move on to something else when they have depleted the entertainment value of their current favorites, which won't take long. From a commercial perspective, superficial entertainment with little or no lasting value is quite desirable. It moves product. All of this depends on a general public that, as a whole, is not too discerning and doesn't have specific, refined, individual tastes. If the RIAA knows anything, they know their market. What they choose to promote and not promote is no accident. So in that manner, they do care about content and from their perspective, they'd be crazy not to.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[MMC Monster]

Actually, why doesn't someone?

An independent film about someone wrongfully persecuted by the RIAA, gets a pro bono lawyer who fights and loses. Then attracts some law students that get a retrial and prevail?

Sounds like it's got promise as a feel good movie.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Darkness404]

Well, even though its not entirely about them "Steal this Film" is rather close to what you are suggesting.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[kheldan]

Point well taken; I used "Russian mobsters" as an example simply because it's the first thing to come to mind. Honestly, *I* don't even think anybody is really pirating CDs, except on a very small scale; it's another of the RIAA's red herrings, if you ask me seriously.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Cally]

"It's been a rough week for the RIAA as massive layoffs are about to cost many employees their job [...]"

Awwwwwwww. We had a whip-round at the office for 'em. Guess we'll just have to go looking for them on skid row - I hope they remember to wear those ATF-style RIAA jackets and caps so we know who to tip it over. To, I mean, who to tip it TO.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[arminw]

.....Think of most of the popular music that is promoted by the RIAA, how little of it has any lasting or enduring value, how much of it does not require a ton of musical talent to write or to perform, and how the lyrical content is mostly immature prattle with no deep spiritual meanings and no ability to challenge its audience to think in new ways. ...

What you ascribe to the RIAA is really a part of our modern Western culture, where nothing lasts very long. It really began when the production of material goods went from one or two at a time in a skilled craftsman's shop to large factories cranking out mountains of identical merchandise. The individual craftsmen's touch on a pair of shoes or a piece of furniture was lost. Modern technology has made it possible for anyone to mass produce art and music in a similar way. Copyright laws must exist only if human creativity, especially in music and literature, is perceived as a commercial product to be bought and sold like any other product. Musicians created their music and painters created their paintings long before anyone had ever thought of copyright. They were content and delighted in having their fellow human beings partake in and be included in the joy of creativity of their art. People with means who enjoyed the art who were not so gifted, took care of the physical needs of these highly gifted ones. These creative artists could put all the effort and creative joy into their work without worrying about where their next bowl of soup was coming from.

A number of years ago I visited the walled medieval city of Rothenburg in Germany. The quaint little modern shops, located in the centuries old buildings, sold modern goods. One of these was a pharmacy, which had a sign above the door that it had been such since 1497. I entered, and indeed it had much of the same merchandise at any pharmacy in Germany might have. However, in a section occupying about a quarter of the store, they had made a little museum of what the store was like and what was offered for sale to the inhabitants of the town at that time. All their potions were individually tailored by a weight to each customer.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[commodore64_love]

I don't see the connection? A closer match would be "A Civil Action" about a small law firm taking on a multimillion dollar corporation.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[causality]

What you ascribe to the RIAA is really a part of our modern Western culture, where nothing lasts very long. It really began when the production of material goods went from one or two at a time in a skilled craftsman's shop to large factories cranking out mountains of identical merchandise. The individual craftsmen's touch on a pair of shoes or a piece of furniture was lost. Modern technology has made it possible for anyone to mass produce art and music in a similar way. Copyright laws must exist only if human creativity, especially in music and literature, is perceived as a commercial product to be bought and sold like any other product. Musicians created their music and painters created their paintings long before anyone had ever thought of copyright. They were content and delighted in having their fellow human beings partake in and be included in the joy of creativity of their art. People with means who enjoyed the art who were not so gifted, took care of the physical needs of these highly gifted ones. These creative artists could put all the effort and creative joy into their work without worrying about where their next bowl of soup was coming from.

I would say that in the past, skilled craft was essential because there was no other way to produce durable, useful goods. Now we have factories and mass production and economies of scale to take care of our material needs. The mistake we have made is that we act now like everything is a product and that craftsmanship or artistry have become more obsolete.

What we could do instead is decide that we have raised our material standard of living to where we can now apply craftsmanship and art to higher expressions of our humanity rather than mundane material survival. An economy based on scarcity (as opposed to what is called a resource economy) and a monetary system based entirely on debt (fiat currency, the Federal Reserve and similar systems that the same international bankers have implemented in every industrialized country) and therefore unsustainable are the main reasons why this has been held back. If we can overcome these things, we would find that we stand at the brink of a new Renaissance far greater than anything that has been imagined before. That is our current challenge.

I agree very much with Bill Hicks when he said that the reason why things are so fucked up right now is that we are undergoing evolution. Hicks went on to say that our institutions are crumbling because they are no longer relevant. Much of the abuses (in my opinion) perpetrated by the RIAA and others have been about these institutions trying to use force, typically the force of law, to remain relevant. I think they are merely prolonging the inevitable. This is a tough time because the old control-and-manipulation-and-coercion based ways of keeping order have to give way first before something new and better can replace them. The unrest and dissatisfaction that is so prevalent right now is part of this process. The one thing that is certain is that our current system is not sustainable. It absolutely must and will either radically change or cause its own collapse. I think something much better is coming that will be based on true love and respect and appreciation for ourselves and each other, for the simple reason that we've tried almost everything else and everything else doesn't work.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[joocemann]

For what its worth, my opinion is that the RIAA is comprised of lawyers who cannot find work otherwise.

At some point this country had met its needs of lawyers, but we kept producing more and more. And a present day makes obvious, those lawyers not wanting to take jobs outside of their education (such as managing the shoe dept at Sears), we end up with litigious bullshittery left and right.

Imagine an America where people are not afraid of garbage litigation to tie them down and rape them for lawyers fees; Imagine the progress, the innovation, and the freedom that was once felt when lawyers were not tools of exploit, but rather equipment of justice.

We cannot ask our politicians to fix this problem; most of them were lawyers to begin with. I fear that only a revolution may lead to the ousting of this cancerous disease upon our society.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Anonymous Coward]

The RIAA has been swaggering around like they're Jack Bauer for years now, with all the self-justification that goes along with the reference, but instead of chasing terrorists, or even true "criminals" (copyright violation is really a civil law matter, not a criminal law matter), they're chasing down little kids, moms or grandmas who don't even know what BitTorrent or P2P is, let alone consciously making a decision to use it (kids or grandkids in this case), etc.; if they were chasing down Russian mobsters selling knock-off CDs to fund their other illegal activities then I can see some of it, but they're NOT.

Exactly. Russian mobsters have money to defend themselves in court, maybe even hire their own experts and private dicks who can prove that the RIAA's "evidence" is crap (even to technophobic judges).

So instead they go after easy targets such as seven-year-olds who's out-of-work parents can't afford a court trial. They just suck it down, take out a third mortgage, and pay off the extortion letter without ever going to trial. Figure for every court case that made the media there was probably a hundred that didn't, and for each one of those there was probably a thousand that quietly paid the blackmail "settlement letter". That's "free profit" to the RIAA so there is no incentive for them to be ethical (or reasonable).

Remember the RIAA's sole purpose is to shield the true litigants (such as SONY BMG) in these cases from the public eye. Otherwise the bad PR might have these individual publishers deal with product boycotts and such. But the RIAA is like a patent troll, they produce nothing, do NOTHING (except sue people), so there is nothing to be boycotted.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Gerzel]

What I want to know as a NC voter is who did this and when will they be running again?

It is nice to have someone worth voting for!

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[gavron]

Perhaps NC voters should learn to use google or to follow their own politics instead of expecting the rest of the world to do it for them.

Spoonfeeding is that way --->

E

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Stormwatch]

Oh, and memo to the music industry: Please start backing and producing music that doesn't suck, k? We're sick to death of the crap you've been turning out lately.

Also: stop with the loudness war . It makes even the best artists sound like shit. Seriously, it makes a CD muffled and flat like an old cassete tape.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[rts008]

The only real pirates, other than the ones from Somalia, are the RIAA lawyers, who are engaged in a racket akin to extortion.

LOL!
I can dress up like a RIAA lawyer next 'talk like a pirate day'! But where to find a vulture to ride on my shoulder? (to replace the standard parrot for 'normal' pirates)

Back on topic:

FIRST AMENDED ANSWER, DEFENSES,
              COUNTERCLAIM, AND
          THIRD PARTY COMPLAINT

[the linked pdf from your blog]

Reading the pdf, it sounds like the Defense is coming out fighting, eyes blazing. I hope they actually have a good case(from the judge's perspective), and the RIAA have unwittingly grabbed a pissed-off tiger by the tail.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Plaid Phantom]

...obin Williams going "durrrr"...

Odd as it may sound, I half expect that he could make a recording such as that much more listenable than the concept initially suggests.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Ethanol-fueled]

Nice post, but I'm sure he meant to say false ideals.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[meyekul]

I'd download it.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[smoker2]

I agree with the thrust of your argument, but take issue with your second paragraph. Surely if we have achieved a standard of living so comfortable, we should now extend that benefit to all the people before moving on to esoteric symbols of triumph.
Many generations have been where we are then fallen backwards because it was only ever part of the world that had those benefits. You can never afford to sit back when you have enemies.

Maybe I'm being too critical, but I'm sure this is crucial if we are to progress. the population of the planet has been increasing by a billion every 12 years (recent historically speaking) so we will hit 7 billion this year. Are we all to become worker ants or have some control ? So we need to stick together. One hand washes the other.
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Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[MrNaz]

Indeed! How dare that poster impugn the talent of artistic greats like the Pussycat Dolls!?

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[causality]

I agree with the thrust of your argument, but take issue with your second paragraph. Surely if we have achieved a standard of living so comfortable, we should now extend that benefit to all the people before moving on to esoteric symbols of triumph. Many generations have been where we are then fallen backwards because it was only ever part of the world that had those benefits. You can never afford to sit back when you have enemies.

We've had the physical ability to feed, clothe, and shelter every last man, woman, and child living on this planet since the late 19th century. An economy based on scarcity is one of the main reasons why we have not done so and I did address this issue. Overcoming this is not what I would consider an "esoteric symbol of triumph." It would be more like a first step.

Maybe I'm being too critical, but I'm sure this is crucial if we are to progress. the population of the planet has been increasing by a billion every 12 years (recent historically speaking) so we will hit 7 billion this year. Are we all to become worker ants or have some control ? So we need to stick together. One hand washes the other.

We're worker ants right now. Worker ants, or cogs in social machinery, however you like to phrase it. This has been a strongly dehumanizing influence. What we are seeing right now is the breakdown of this system because it is reaching the limits of its sustainability. If you understand the meaning of "problem, reaction, solution" or Hegel's "thesis, antithesis, synthesis" then you are no doubt aware that there are globalist forces that would like to use this breakdown as an excuse to form a one-world government of a totalitarian nature. Their first goal is to dissolve the sovereignty of the United States, primarily by bankrupting it. This is why it doesn't matter who is in the White House, they're all puppets of the monied interests that got them elected in the first place. Some of them may even be people with genuinely good intentions but they are what Vladimir Lenin referred to as "useful idiots".

For those globalist forces, the present time represents their end-game. They call it the "new world order." The good news is that their hubris is becoming apparent. I believe that their model of control by manipulation is as obsolete as the unsustainable systems that are now decaying. The general public is becoming more and more aware that something has seriously gone wrong somewhere but most of them don't yet realize the extent of it. They still think that anything in politics happens by accident. When something far worse than the Great Depression gets here, and it's coming, when the abuses of authority become more and more blatant and flagrant, people will start to wake up even more than they are already. Ghandi proved how effective passive resistance is when you are dealing with an opponent who is well-prepared for you to either rebel or conform, which are your two wrong options because they both make you become like what you oppose. Never underestimate the power of refusing to participate, for it is your "third option".

As far as "will we have some control", we're already about as disenfranchised as we can be, speaking strictly of the people as a group. There is nowhere for us to go but up and once the people realize that, it will be inevitable and I think it will be peaceful. These are some interesting times indeed.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Nom du Keyboard]

Think of most of the popular music that is promoted by the RIAA, how little of it has any lasting or enduring value

That's why I still listen to the music of the 60's compared to the pap of today.

And that's why the RIAA and its foreign-owned record companies are trying to retroactively extend copyright into perpetuity with the cry, "But think about the artists!"

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Nefarious Wheel]

For those globalist forces, the present time represents their end-game. They call it the "new world order."

Geez, just how old is the tinfoil on that hat of yours? Have a look at the back of one of your greenbacks - can't remember which denomination it is, but didn't one of them have "Novus Ordo Seclorum" on it?

I'd suggest you start listening to some younger conspiratorialists, get some fresh material. That one's profoundly dated.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[renegadesx]

If you have a sister that listens to Britney Spears you would know thats already been done

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Foobar of Borg]

I'm just curious, because you seem awfully confident in your knowledge of precisely how things are handled in "Putin's Russia".

In Putin's Russia, things handle YOU!

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[CodeBuster]

I think that the people who pirate the most are people in the foreign developing countries, especially Brazil, where incomes are much lower, prices are the same or even higher than in the US, and the chance of getting caught is low. In a previous article here on Slashdot it was mentioned that in Brazil a Nintendo Wii game purchased legally would cost the equivalent of $250 US dollars or roughly the monthly salary of the average Brazillian. If you are living in a developing country and you have no money and nothing much to lose (because you probably already live in a slum) then of course you are going to pirate foreign films, music, and games; it just makes sense and that is where the real piracy is around the world (they probably download and do a lot of file sharing from Internet cafes too). However, you are probably right that the downloads are responsible more often than the illegal street vendor selling physical media from the back of a stall in the street markets.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Paradise Pete]

Honestly, *I* don't even think anybody is really pirating CDs, except on a very small scale;

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by small scale, but go to any country where the retail price of a CD is more than a day's wage and you'll find unauthorized copies for sale on seemingly every street corner.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[CodeBuster]

A close personal friend of mine is acquainted with some Russian immigrants (legal, they are legit) who run a small grocery in an ethnic part of Los Angeles. I have met them in person over diner on a couple of occasions and most of my second hand knowledge comes from those conversations. They left during the 1998 Russian financial crises when Russia defaulted on its foreign debt and came to United States to live and make an honest living which was very difficult to do in Russia at that time. I still don't believe that Russia has changed as much since then as people in the west might think, but that is as much as I am willing to say, take that for what you will.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[MadKeithV]

Get off my lawn!
Plenty of great music has been made in the past 40 years, but you have to *look* for it. Because of the sheer volume of music being produced not that much of it can get the limelight.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[TheRaven64]

That's why I still listen to the music of the 60's compared to the pap of today.

I listen to a lot of stuff from the '60s, and from the '40s, and stuff composed in previous centuries (although, obviously, not recorded until later), but this comment irritates me. There was a huge amount of crap produced in the '60s, but most of it didn't survive. No one aims to buy music that they don't like, and so for music to survive from the '60s enough people must have liked it and enjoyed it for copies to still be floating around.

If you skim off the top 0.1% of today's music, you get some really great stuff too, but comparing the best from the '60s against everything produced today is obviously going to make the '60s seem better.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[TheRaven64]

These people aren't the target of the RIAA lawsuits though, and they can't count as a lost sale, because they can't afford the product. As with Microsoft, it's in the RIAA's interest to allow them to keep pirating in the short term, because it lets RIAA-produced music seep into their culture and when their standard of living has increased enough that they have disposable income to spend on music they will want to buy RIAA-produced albums.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[TheRaven64]

It's really surprising how much better vinyl releases of some modern bands sound. Although an LP has a lower signal to noise ratio than a well-authored CD, the LP release tends not to be compressed so you get all of the bandwidth on the LP used while the CD version is discarding to top few bits of precision and ending up as an inferior version.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[CmdrGravy]

OMG ! The Pussy Cat Dolls, it's so like my number one dream to be one of The Pussy Cat Dolls they work like so hard and it's so cool and they are soooo creative and sing so well and they are just like so the best it would be so cool to be A Pussy Cat Doll. I'll be so like so Rich and so Famous and I'd only be picked if I was so like talented and The Pussy Cat Dolls really liked me. OMG it would be so cool !

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[geminidomino]

Honestly, *I* don't even think anybody is really pirating CDs, except on a very small scale; it's another of the RIAA's red herrings, if you ask me seriously.

Probably because the professional "pirates" have, unlike the RIAA, realized that it's pointless and has continually shrinking profit margins with the advancing of technology

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[tchall]

You might consider otherwise if you took into account the marketing of all the schlock with band logos, "star" photos, etc... Sony and all the rest are marketing a package and the recordings are a form of advertising that brings in the devotees to 'worship' their carefully developed and packaged idols They'd probably love to copyright and sell computer generated random tones... but building up an "artist" from scratch has been quite common since the Monkees were a "sensation" Fans love learning the myths, legends and secrets of their idols... (Did you know that one of the Monkees mothers invented "liquid paper"?) There are at least as many terrific "unsigned artists" working today as have ever been recorded in the history of the technology... I'm pretty sure the "recording industry" is more concerned with revenue than talent though... It would seem to me that a mediocre talent might well be more responsive to their wishes than the best of the best... maybe even grateful until they realized that after ten years of making the charts production, advertising, touring and other "costs" have left them with nothing... Not an uncommon story in music at all... The music industry. as I see it, seems to be based on screwing over talent and customers pretty much equally...

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[internerdj]

Can't speak for the GP's intent but idol in the music industry has a non-religious context: This is American Idol. It was used long before that though. You've never heard of someone idolizing a band? Doesn't mean they have a Britney shrine in the corner they burn incense and pray to every night. It is marketing magic just like being a fanatic(fan) doesn't (usually) mean that you have been driven crazy by your obsession.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[slashdotwannabe]

I don't know about being ONE of the Pussy Cat Dolls... I'd much prefer to be IN ONE of the Pussy Cat Dolls...

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[ShieldW0lf]

How to kill your neighbours off without making war on them:

1) Give them all they need, and encourage them to take this for granted and not learn how to do things for themselves
2) Wait 40 years
3) Stop giving away food.
4) Wait 2 years
5) Build settlements

What sort of support do you need? Illusions and entertainment to keep them idle.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Mister Whirly]

I lived in Rio de Janeiro for a time and can say this - even if the Brazilians made as much as the average person in the US, they would still pirate things. It is just the way it is down there. I remember when I first moved down there, I asked someone who lived there (but had been to the US a few times) why the restaurants didn't have self-service for getting soda. Her reply was "If you could just help yourself nobody would ever pay for soda. They would just bring their own cup from home and help themselves."

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[Handpaper]

Compression is only the beginning, on many modern CDs the waveform is actually clipped.

You can't engrave a clipped waveform onto vinyl; even if the cutter were able to follow such a path, the needle would jump out of the groove on encountering it.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[arminw]

.....I think something much better is coming that will be based on true love and respect and appreciation for ourselves and each other, for the simple reason that we've tried almost everything else and everything else doesn't work......

This will always be an elusive dream as long as human nature is what it is. Everything we have tried so far is like trying to pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. Almost 2000 years ago, the God who made us and everything else, entered our world in the person of Jesus Christ. He was rejected then by the people of that time and is being rejected by most people still today. Oh yes, many people are willing to give him lip service but are not willing to accept him to be Lord of their life. We have a saying that the leopard cannot change his spots. In the same way we humans are powerless to change our own selfish, prideful nature. Those people willing to accept the person of Jesus Christ as supreme Lord over their lives, will experience him begin to change the ugly spots of selfishness and pride from the inside, little by little, in the very depths of the human being. Only such people can be rightfully called Christians. This change is what happened to me and is continuing as I live.

The time you are dreaming about will eventually come to the world as a whole, but it can and must begin with you. If you are really interested in having a life based on love and respect and appreciation, you may read about one man's quest for truth in a book written by Lee Strobel called "The Case For Christ". If you are not much into reading, there is also a DVD by that name. Both are available at Amazon, where you can also get more information about them.

Re:Couldn't have happened to nicer people

[arekusu_ou]

My only problem with your statement is "proper order of things" as you're trying to impose some rules on priority.
One represents love and commitment and the other entertainment? I know being an obsessed sports fanatic takes alot of irrational love of your team and damn obsessive amount of commitment, especially the groupies who travel with the teams. But calling your wife merely entertainment? :D

I truly think it's important that have the freedom to "idolize" who they want for whatever reasons they want as long as it's not taken too far. Pre-teen girls were idolized in Japan for a decade with mediocre singing or acting abilities...I'm not quite sure why. Some smart people get idolized for their contributions to society and science *shrugs*. The green and gold god of wealth and fortune. Rich or infuential family heirs and heiress get idolized. Some people even idolize their lawns *snickers*. Some idolize video games. All above maybe their spouses, jobs, or basic living conditions. Who's to say they are wrong in what they are idolizing, other than a dysfunctional way of life.

Now your wife or marriage can get boring and unfullfilling, does that mean you should reduce the amount of enjoyment you get from everything else in your life, so your appreciate your wife more than those? That's a pretty sad existance, what's the point in even living at that point.

W/Regards to layoffs:

[GreenEggsAndSpam]

Before anybody starts in on the "Yay, less employees!" style rant, please remember that there are GOOD people who work at bad companies... not everyone is an evil backstabbing conniving shrew with the goal of proving that everyone is evil and owes them billions of dollars.

Of course, I have no proof of this "decent people" there, but one can only assume there would be.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[scubamage]

Nuremberg defense much? If you work for the bad guys, don't cry when bad things happen.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Anonymous Coward]

No, wait. The Nuremberg defense is "I was under orders" - it's used when you actually DID something bad YOURSELF. Merely working for someone who also does bad things is not bad in itself unless and until you yourself do bad things.

Take Osama's chauffeur, for example, who was kept for years (and probably still is) in our lovely concentration camp at Gitmo. What did he actually do, other than being connected to/working for a genuine bad guy?

Of course, working for a bad guy isn't really something you SHOULD do, but if you do it anyway, it's not something that should be legally actionable. You are responsible for your OWN actions, not anyone else's. (And in fact, the fact that you ARE responsible for your own actions is precisely why the Nuremberg defense is not considered valid by most.)

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[causality]

Before anybody starts in on the "Yay, less employees!" style rant, please remember that there are GOOD people who work at bad companies... not everyone is an evil backstabbing conniving shrew with the goal of proving that everyone is evil and owes them billions of dollars.

Of course, I have no proof of this "decent people" there, but one can only assume there would be.

This is why many religions have an idea called "right livelihood". The Buddhists are very good at using sensible terms with simple descriptions and so I borrow their term here, but it's a recurring theme appearing in many belief systems. It goes by different names but the concept is that part of having integrity involves earning your living in an honest way that causes as little harm as possible, whether that harm is intentional on your part or incidental.

I know I could not in good conscience work for the RIAA. I could not see the harm and the human suffering and persecution that they perpetrate and join up with them without having a lot of inner conflict. Most of that conflict wouldn't even be a conscious thing. It would manifest in terms of a general dissatisfaction, of the vacuous sort that "you need more stuff, latest fastest greatest" rampant consumerism is designed to fill. It would be the opposite of being strong and needing very little and having a joyous satisfaction with life that comes from trying as much as possible to live in harmony with other beings. It would cost me my principles and therefore my well-being, not in a catastrophic sense but in a subtle corrupting double-minded sense. When I say double-minded, I mean that sensation that one part of you is for something while another part of you is against that something. It's become common, but that is not at all normal and is properly regarded as a disease (or "dis-ease") state.

I'm not advocating a religion or a religious belief. I'm saying that sometimes concepts become incorporated into these beliefs for what you might call practical reasons. It's unfortunate that religion has become such a divisive tool for control but I think that for most of them, this was later added onto the original beliefs and observations to make them into "systems". Most of them started out as sincere efforts to experience true health and joy on the physical, mental, and spiritual levels. You can see that if you can perform the not-so-easy task of unravelling and getting past the practitioners who know little about their own beliefs, the needlessly complex religious language, and the institutionalization and systematization of what are supposed to be personal beliefs. For most religions, I think the early founders would be quite horrified to see what their ideas have become, not unlike how the Founding Fathers would feel about the monstrosity that our federal government has become. In both cases, that does not mean that the original ideas were unsound, it means that the ideas become monsters when they turn into systems and demand that people conform to and become subservient to those systems. This process is in direct opposition to the idea that a belief is a tool or a helper that is there to give you ideas to consider, test, and accept or reject as part of your own personal quest to decide for yourself what you believe. The idea of "right livelihood" is one that I was thankfully able to test by observing other people instead of having to make my own mistakes and I have found it to be a sound idea.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[roguetrick]

You're like the asshole who complains about all the innocent contractors on the Death Star!

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Tassach]

There are no good people working at bad companies. They chose to work there. Even the "it was the only job I could get" defense is complete bullshit. You ALWAYS have a choice, even if you don't like the alternatives you have to chose from.

After I got laid off the last time, I got a VERY lucrative offer from an extremely scummy company that did data mining and direct marketing. After a long discussion with my wife, I turned it down, even though there was a very real chance that doing so would have meant losing my house. Fortunately something else came along, but it was scary there for a while.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[nametaken]

Bullshit. I hope they all default on their mortgages.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[drinkypoo]

If you are supporting evil, you are evil. You might think you are good, but you are lying to yourself; you might say you are good, but you are lying to others. Hence the whole saying about how hard it is for a rich man to get into Heaven - I think you have to acknowledge the validity of the idea regardless of whether you appreciate the religious window-dressing (I don't, but it doesn't stop me from quoting either. Or at least referring to.) If you own shares in genocide, you're a murderer. It's okay to say you're trying to do good, but there's no position in which you can defend working for certain industries, let alone corporations.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[causality]

Take Osama's chauffeur, for example, who was kept for years (and probably still is) in our lovely concentration camp at Gitmo. What did he actually do, other than being connected to/working for a genuine bad guy?

Which is pretty funny considering that Osama bin Laden's brother, Sheikh Tarek bin Laden, and his construction company have very close ties to the Bush family, including of course former Presidents George Herbert Walker Bush and George W. Bush. In fact the more research you do, the more both the "good guys" and the villians seem to all be one big happy family. They are all connected to each other and either know each other or know each other's immediate families. Anyone else think it's just a little, I dunno, odd, that the media hasn't made this common knowledge? I mean, you'd think that'd be newsworthy considering the utter trivia that's tirelessly discussed about other celebrities and public figures.

By the same standard that was good enough to indefinitely detain somebody without charging them with any crime, a certain former President should be at Gitmo, too. That's if we're going to invest so heavily in guilt by association. Intentional or otherwise, we Americans certainly haven't lost our sense of irony.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Lalo Martins]

First: what everybody else is saying re "just say no".

Second: if there are good people working there, then good for them, the layoff is an opportunity and incentive for each and every one of them to go find a morally acceptable job which won't ruin their health with buried guilt.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[causality]

Except that even the slightest hint of authority can, in fact, drive people to kill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Yeah, that's because almost no one seems to understand the difference between service and subservience. One is mindful and willing cooperation because you believe in a purpose, the other is mindless submission that robs you of human dignity. Holding people personally responsible for any atrocities they commit is one way to remind them of the difference. It's probably not the best way because it emphasizes punishment as deterrant and not wisdom as prevention.

In a way we're between a rock and a hard place when it comes to this issue. The "powers that be" would like to preserve the centralized authority structures and the ready obedience of mindless myrmidons who execute their wishes and form the basis of their power. At the same time, they want to say that you will be punished for following certain orders, which implies that at least sometimes you are expected to think for yourself enough to question their authority. So we get these solutions that are based on prosecution and punishment for these thankfully rare events because the enlightened understanding that would represent true prevention also happens to dissolve the social machinery through which it moves (to borrow a phrase from McKenna), an option that is thoroughly distasteful to the statists.

Once you get an idea of the forces at work, the flawed ideas that compromise human beings, none of this is difficult to understand.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[OneSeven]

I agree you with you for the most part here, and I also could not in good conscience work for someone like the RIAA, however there's a few critical parts to this equation you seem to be overlooking.

1. A fair percentage of those people have probably worked there since before the RIAA even started all this shit. Would you suggest they should put themsevles (and their families) through everything involved with finding alternate employment / being unemployed (like they have to now anyway, but still..)?
2. I'm not sure about the U.S., but here in Australia the majority of the population have no idea about the horrible injustice being sought by the RIAA and their ilk - it's just not newsworthy enough outside of places like /.. A lot of people who were seeking employment and landed a job there may have had no clue about the less savory things being done there.
3. From the inside, I'm sure the RIAA would be feeding its employee's their own breed of propaganda to 'boost morale' and convince them that they're not evil. Most people would take the easy/conforming way and take that at face value.

...just because we here on ./ all think the RIAA a corrupt, deceptive, evil corporation, doesn't mean that everyone else sees them that way. Now Big Oil, Big Tobacco, and certain other industries that have been know for decades of doing 'really, really bad stuff' - those are the ones that should have a hard time trying to fill vacancies, but even then - wave the right amount of $$$ around and most people will happily put aside their morale dilemas and come up with some way to justify it to themselves.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[rts008]

Hear! Hear!
Well said. Glad you took a positive stand on your principles. That seems too rare of an occurrence these days, but refreshing when it does.

I was put in a similar position about a year ago. The only difference was when I brought the job offer up to my wife, she told me in no uncertain terms that I should not work for "Those assholes".[quote]

I too, shortly thereafter got my present job. (and love it)

P.S. I'm glad to here it worked out well for you! :-)

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[rts008]

*face>palm! *D'oh!

P.S. I'm glad to here it worked out well for you! :-)

here!=hear

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[swillden]

A fair percentage of those people have probably worked there since before the RIAA even started all this shit

I doubt any of them worked there before the record labels started all their old shit, because that has been going on for a very long time. You know, cheating artists, bribing radio program managers, inventing no-talent acts they can control rather then signing real talent.

The music business has been dirty for a very long time. Maybe since it started.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[causality]

I agree you with you for the most part here, and I also could not in good conscience work for someone like the RIAA, however there's a few critical parts to this equation you seem to be overlooking.

1. A fair percentage of those people have probably worked there since before the RIAA even started all this shit. Would you suggest they should put themsevles (and their families) through everything involved with finding alternate employment / being unemployed (like they have to now anyway, but still..)?
2. I'm not sure about the U.S., but here in Australia the majority of the population have no idea about the horrible injustice being sought by the RIAA and their ilk - it's just not newsworthy enough outside of places like /.. A lot of people who were seeking employment and landed a job there may have had no clue about the less savory things being done there.
3. From the inside, I'm sure the RIAA would be feeding its employee's their own breed of propaganda to 'boost morale' and convince them that they're not evil. Most people would take the easy/conforming way and take that at face value.

...just because we here on ./ all think the RIAA a corrupt, deceptive, evil corporation, doesn't mean that everyone else sees them that way. Now Big Oil, Big Tobacco, and certain other industries that have been know for decades of doing 'really, really bad stuff' - those are the ones that should have a hard time trying to fill vacancies, but even then - wave the right amount of $$$ around and most people will happily put aside their morale dilemas and come up with some way to justify it to themselves.

My answer is that people need to work these things out for themselves. The whole point is to obtain discernment and wisdom so that you don't need me or anyone else to know for whom to work or to know how to handle the discovery that your living contributes to the needless suffering of others. These are important matters and there is much personal growth to be attained by dealing with them and finding your own solutions. I would not presume to try and take that away from another person, especially not with the misguided idea that I'm doing them any favors by telling them how they should live or by handing out easy answers that don't challenge them.

I'll add that if you will just learn to observe people, it isn't difficult to understand when you're dealing with immoral people who have no concern for the suffering they cause. There is a certain quality, what you may call "the spirit behind it", to everything that they say and do that is quite unmistakable. It's incredibly subtle, but if you can learn to genuinely see it just one time you will have no problems identifying it afterwards. Because of this, their smooth words and winning smiles are thoroughly unconvincing to anyone with any sort of discernment. Cultivate that discernment first and you won't have to believe internal propaganda and you won't have to wait for what is "newsworthy" in order to know these people when you see them, or in the case of a job interview, when you're dealing with them. Their nature can be known before they go far enough down the path they're on for their nature to bear fruit in the form of outwardly-visible wrongdoing. If outwardly-visible wrongdoing is your first observation that you are not dealing with honest people, it's because you have missed many signs and warnings first.

Average people have to see the fruit before they know the tree which is why they're average. The idea of identifying the direction in which something is headed whether it's travelled one millimeter in that direction or one parsec is alien to most people. They instead wait until it has reached its destination and revealed its full nature before they are willing to call it what it is. They probably do this because they don't know what discernment really is and are afraid of being called "judgmental", which is something q

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

First: what everybody else is saying re "just say no". Second: if there are good people working there, then good for them, the layoff is an opportunity and incentive for each and every one of them to go find a morally acceptable job which won't ruin their health with buried guilt.

That's what I say. Let them find honest work.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[smoker2]

So you're talking about morals. And too many people think of the moral law as restrictive and break it. Just because it's the law doesn't automatically make it a bad thing. Some things were actually for all our benefit. Like music. Oh, hang on that's the wrong side of the argument. But the RIAA companies want to play both sides. Have their money and break copyright terms. They are responsible for copyright extension, they have pirated from us. Hah HArRr!!!

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[causality]

So you're talking about morals. And too many people think of the moral law as restrictive and break it.

And if they are thinkers, then they wonder why they have inner conflict or they wonder why they aren't truly enjoying their lives. What you refer to as moral law is not some system that can be cheated. Speaking not of human institutions but of what you might call karma or "divine law", we are never punished for what we do. We are punished by what we become when we do it. No one evades this and there are no exceptions. This is also why truly and unselfishly doing good is its own reward, so long as it's genuine.

The only reason why that moral law was ever written on stone or written on paper is because people have forgotten what it means to love one another. It's like that quote from Socrates in which he says (paraphrase) "I do because of my philosophy what other people do only because of fear of the law." Socrates was far stronger and far happier doing what he knew was right because he genuinely wanted to than anyone who was merely intimidated by overwhelming state power could ever be. Unlike those people, he also needed no master and was well able to live his own life. Read Phaedo and you will see that this man feared neither death itself nor a country that failed to appreciate him.

No one who merely follows a list of guidelines can have that kind of strength. Therefore, if people think that the moral law is some obstacle that limits or restricts them, then that is unfortunate, but they ultimately will have to draw their own conclusions.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[db32]

Damn you! I invoked Godwin first and you have a higher +Insightful than me!

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[wasted]

...That's what I say. Let them find honest work.

Is there legal team even slightly qualified for honest work?

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Foobar of Borg]

No, the defence was: "If I hadn't followed those orders I would have been executed on the spot".

No, the defense actually was "Befehl ist befehl" (orders are orders). In other words, the denial of responsibility by bucking it up to the next highest link in the chain of command. Try wiki. Note also where it says:

"Thus, under Nuremberg Principle IV, "defense of superior orders" is not a defense for war crimes, although it might influence a sentencing authority to lessen the penalty. Nuremberg Principle IV states:

'The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.'" [emphasis added]

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[wasted]

Is there legal team even slightly qualified for honest work?

I meant "Is their legal team even slightly qualified for honest work?"

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Paradise Pete]

How could you lose a friggin' HOUSE. Oh. That sucks, man.

No kidding. It's got to be around here somewhere.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Maelwryth]

"There are no good people working at bad companies. They chose to work there. Even the "it was the only job I could get" defense is complete bullshit. You ALWAYS have a choice, even if you don't like the alternatives you have to chose from."

Although I applaud you turning down the "scummy company" at risk to yourself and family. I don't agree with your logic. Following the same line of thought leads to;
"No good Americans" because of the Iraq war.
"No good Israeli's" because of the attacks on Gaza.
"No good Palestinians" because of the attacks on Israel.

Often the people at these companies have never been exposed to any point of view from outside the company. Most citizens of a country are the same.......indoctrinated.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[DNS-and-BIND]

For myself, I will be saying "Yay, fewer employees!" but then that's just me.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[rohan972]

After a long discussion with my wife, I turned it down, even though there was a very real chance that doing so would have meant losing my house.

So you considered it then. Accepting the offer was an option for you that took a long discussion to reject. Don't get me wrong, I commend your decision, but someone applying as a janitor or secretary, someone without much knowledge or interest in copyright issues, but a house payment due, can you really fault them for taking the job, since you considered the same thing?

In any case, I'm not in favour of saving evil or inept corporations to save good peoples jobs. Otherwise all that is needed to perpetual an evil scheme is to hire some people so you can gain immunity for the sake of their jobs.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[TheRaven64]

Anyone else think it's just a little, I dunno, odd, that the media hasn't made this common knowledge?

Hasn't it? The BBC ran quite a few stories on this subject around 2001/2 and The Power of Nightmares (BBC documentary from 2004) covered it in a lot of detail, and was released into the public domain to ensure it got even wider coverage.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[meringuoid]

The BBC ran quite a few stories on this subject around 2001/2 and The Power of Nightmares (BBC documentary from 2004) covered it in a lot of detail, and was released into the public domain to ensure it got even wider coverage.

This was because no mainstream American channel would touch that documentary. Can't imagine why not, although I gather the phrase 'we would be crucified if we showed that here' was used at one point. So they released it freely to let the Internet bypass that unfortunate bottleneck.

In case you're interested to see what the media thought you shouldn't, it's right here.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Sqweegee]

There's a great book all bout the death star contractors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Star_(novel) Most were genuinely ignorant of how dangerous the deathstar was until the end.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[mcgrew]

If you walk into a grocery store with your friend, and she gets caught shoplifting, you'll both go to jail.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Jaysyn]

I read that as Obama's chauffeur. Caused one hell of a mental disconnect.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[ekhben]

Because some dickweeb thought it would be a good idea to give droids personalities -- and not just quirky cheerful goofball "personalities" but full strength, industrial grade personalities and emotions, including fear, greed, cowardice, avarice, and kinship. Droids in the Star Wars universe are a slave race: they're intelligent, conscious, and regularly mind wiped to keep them obedient and in line.

Droids, therefore, have mechanical maintenance costs AND human (alien, lifeform, whatever) resources management costs. Overall, humans are probably cheaper labour: bacta is more readily available than durasteel, after all.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[captaincinders]

And I to knew people who, in their private lives, were utterly decent people and would feel utterly ashamed by being associated with anything illegal or amoral. ......but in their business life they would lie, manipulate and cheat. Their justification was basically beaten into them by their company that anything was justified in the name of profit. Their only creed was 'don't get caught'.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Tassach]

You generally don't chose your citizenship; it's an accident of birth. Only a tiny percentage of the population will ever immigrate to another country, even if they had the opportunity to do so. Not so with employment - except in the case of conscription, it's entirely voluntary who you chose to work for.

Ignorance of the company's nature may be a defense, but if you willfully go to work for a company knowing from the outset that they routinely engage in illegal, immoral, or unethical behavior as a matter of standard practice, you are a willing collaborator in those misdeeds and bear your own share of guilt, even if you are not directly involved. CF: Nuremberg trials.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs:

[Tassach]

When you have children to support, their welfare takes priority over all other concerns. The discussions were more along the lines of "what will we do when I turn down this job, if I can't find another" versus "should I take this job or not".

To quote NOFX...

[scubamage]

The dinosaurs will slowly die

And I do believe no one will cry

I'm just fucking glad I'm gonna be

There to watch the fall

Prehistoric music industry

Three feet in la brea tar

Extinction never felt so good

Re:To quote NOFX...

[jerep]

Amen.

The music industry is NOT music, it's money. Music itself will always live on.

Re:To quote NOFX...

[Cousin Scuzzy]

Absolutely. How are large record companies even useful nowadays? It used to be that it was expensive to record and reproduce music, and distribution involved getting physical product out on shelves. Since shelves = floor space = rent, stores had to move as much product as possible, so there was value in having the music they were selling promoted by big companies with a lot of advertising money and a stranglehold on commercial radio.

The landscape has changed dramatically over the last decade. Recording is so cheap that it can be done reasonably well with equipment costing a few thousand dollars or less. That means it's pretty much accessible to everyone. For $10/month you can sign up with a digital music distributor who will put your mp3s on Amazon.com, itunes, etc. Set up a myspace page for your band or register a domain and get an inexpensive web host and you've got a web presence. It's up to you to get your music heard and purchased, but when you do you'll get most or all of the proceeds.

Seriously, what has the music industry given us lately except bland, pretty pop stars with little musical talent?

Re:To quote NOFX...

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

How are large record companies even useful nowadays?

Well they provide quite a bit of employment to some otherwise unemployable lawyers. Doesn't that count for something.

Re:To quote NOFX...

[geminidomino]

Well they provide quite a bit of employment to some otherwise unemployable lawyers. Doesn't that count for something.

If there were a just and loving god, that would count as crimes against sentience...

Re:To quote NOFX...

[meringuoid]

How are large record companies even useful nowadays?

Well, the radio plays what they want you to hear, they tell you it's cool, and you sure believe it. Without a record company you're one more band nobody's heard of: put your mp3s up on your Myspace under a right-on Creative Commons licence if you like, and I'm sure all 27 people who care will download them, and you can keep on flipping burgers and putting on your silly hat. But once you sell out you have marketing. The masses are told by their trusted media sources that you are the new cool thing. That counts for a lot.

Or would you rather keep to your principles and then suddenly get huge overnight because some /b/tard put your music to a looped anime clip and it went viral on Youtube? Because that's how it happens on the internet. You might want to be the next Arctic Monkeys, but the Internet prefers Rick Astley.

Re:To quote NOFX...

[Plekto]

Recording is so cheap that it can be done reasonably well with equipment costing a few thousand dollars or less. That means it's pretty much accessible to everyone. For $10/month you can sign up with a digital music distributor who will put your mp3s on Amazon.com, itunes, etc. Set up a myspace page for your band or register a domain and get an inexpensive web host and you've got a web presence.

All that results from such attempts at "recording" is a low quality product that nobody wants to actually buy. GOOD recording and mastering is still as expensive and time consuming as it ever was. Nobody buys the equipment - they all rent a fully outfitted studio and do it that way.

But you are right about the fact that the big companies aren't required to be part of the picture any more, thanks to the easy availability of recording studios and equipment.

Re:To quote NOFX...

[mcgrew]

Don't you think that society might be better served if they were flipping burgers at McDonald's?

No wait, on second thought, they'd probably suck at that, too.

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

[gavron]

Slashdot isn't for or against piracy, it's an online forum. People who read the forum have a variety of diverse opinions.

So far the only one saying "F... the artists and F... their rights is you."

That's one too many.

E
P.S. F... the RIAA.

Re:FUCK ARTISTS

[jerep]

It's not the artists' fault if the RIAA wants to keep most of the profits for themselves, you don't see artists suing people for downloading their songs (unless they're called Metallica and are little money bitches), most of the time the artist is just glad people are enjoying their work.

Re:FUCK ARTISTS

[scubamage]

I live with artists, and I will gladly pay for worthwhile music. That means the guys I see in bars. That means the guys I see at concerts. You think we treat artists like slaves? You realize that to this day not a single filesharing case settlement has actually been shared with a SINGLE recording artist? The artists are slaves, but not to us. Fuck the RIAA.

RIAA guilty of promoting copyright infringment?

[tinkerghost]

• Music isn't sold it's licensed
• minors cannot enter into a licensing agreement
• replaying of digital music - downloads or CD - require copying of data to a buffer
• Using a legitimate copy of digital media is a violation of copyright if there is a lack of a valid license.

All music sold to and played by minors results in technical copyright violations. Since the RIAA heavily promotes music sales to minors, they are guilty of inducing copyright infringement.

This could be fun.

Re:RIAA guilty of promoting copyright infringment?

[seeker_1us]

• Music isn't sold it's licensed

No that is not correct. You buy a CD like you buy a book. You only need a "license" if the copyright holder has to give you a limited subset of his or her limited monopoly on copying/distribution. You buy the CD, you do not need any of the copying/distribution rights that are reserved to the copyright holder.

I don't know where this idea that music is "licensed" comes from. Sometimes I think the RIAA is spreading this to make us believe we don't really own the CD's we bought.

Re:RIAA guilty of promoting copyright infringment?

[mabhatter654]

Sony tried just that with their autorun exe... so they could say you "accepted" the malware on your computer.

Re:RIAA guilty of promoting copyright infringment?

[westlake]

You buy a CD like you buy a book. You only need a "license" if the copyright holder has to give you a limited subset of his or her limited monopoly on copying/distribution.

When you a buy a copyrighted book, you do not buy the rights to copy and redistribute the book. You do not buy the right to produce or perform derivative works. I see no difference here.

Re:RIAA guilty of promoting copyright infringment?

[tinkerghost]

No that is not correct. You buy a CD like you buy a book. You only need a "license" if the copyright holder has to give you a limited subset of his or her limited monopoly on copying/distribution. You buy the CD, you do not need any of the copying/distribution rights that are reserved to the copyright holder.

The whole point is that the RIAA is arguing that music is only "sold" when it's convenient for them to deal with it in those terms. Otherwise it's licensed. I am looking at 15 of 20 random CD's having the notice that 'unauthorized lending' is prohibited.

Copying to buffers for use as intended was supposed to be covered under law. According to Blizzard V Michael Donnelly it actually requires a valid license. That's software, but as we are fond of pointing out here, data is data. If copying software to ram is a copyright violation without a valid license, then copying music to the ram buffers in an MP3 player without a valid license is also a violation.

The original statement is sort of a unintended consequence train with all of the push to increase copyright strength.

Re:RIAA guilty of promoting copyright infringment?

[mcgrew]

I am looking at 15 of 20 random CD's having the notice that 'unauthorized lending' is prohibited.

Typical weazle words from a weazle industry. You ARE authorized, by US law, to lend a book or CD. So the statement is true, but misleading, as they want to you believe that you are legally prohibited from lending that CD when in fact you aren't, and they didn't really say you were.

And yes, I misspelled that. So sue me.

Re:FUCK ARTISTS

[SpockLogic]

Piracy is nothing more than selfish leeches grabbing people's work for free and justifying it by blaming others.

Ah, time to fire up my Bit-Torrent client and then have a stroll through USENET. Thank you for the reminder.

If North Carolina proves their case

[HaKKa]

If North Carolina proves their case then I think that any and all decisions won in favor of the RIAA should all be overturned.

Re:If North Carolina proves their case

[Puffy Director Pants]

It's not North Carolina filing this, but somebody in North Carolina.

Big difference.

Gee...

[Puffy Director Pants]

Maybe somebody ought to look at those filings for the laws being cited if he wants names.

Re:W/Regards to layoffs: - Godwin's Law

[db32]

There were a lot of good people that were Nazi soldiers too. That doesn't make it any less of a good thing that their team lost and they lost their jobs.

"Music isn't sold it's licensed"

[Kickasso]

Wrong. Next!

Re:"Music isn't sold it's licensed"

[Kickasso]

crap, looks like a troll has got me. mod me down to pblivion.

Re:"Music isn't sold it's licensed"

[mabhatter654]

no, that's exactly the reasoning for EULAs on shiny video game disks when they are met to "play" just like CDs. In fact Sony tried adding an auto load on their CDs so you would have to accept a "license" to play a PC on a computer so they could add their rootkit software.

Big expensive Executives and Lawyers have the same attitude about CDs and copyright.. not just slashodot trolls.

Do they have a lawyer fund..

[drunkennewfiemidget]

I can donate to to help them cover the costs of stomping on those maggots?

I'm willing to shell out a few CDs' worth of cash.

Re:Do they have a lawyer fund..

[L4t3r4lu5]

Same here.

I couldn't find a link or any information to go about it in the article; Do you know any details about how we can show support?

Re:Do they have a lawyer fund..

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

I couldn't find a link or any information to go about it in the article; Do you know any details about how we can show support?

Sure, send these guys a check with instructions to apply it to Ms. Moursy's case!

Re:Do they have a lawyer fund..

[ChoGGi]

seems as good as anyplace to post this
awhile ago somebody mentioned how your website looked and i believe you said suggestions are welcome or something along those lines so
http://userstyles.org/styles/15517

crap....

[kribby]

who here knows how to play the world's smallest violin?

Re:crap....

[kiyoshigawa]

I don't know how to play it, but I did design it. ^_^

News for Nerds

[westlake]

It's been a rough week for the RIAA as massive layoffs are about to cost many employees their job.

It has been tough week all around.

You could preface every Slashdot story with this line and only the cast of characters would change: Novell lays off openSUSE Linux developers

This just in!

[ScentCone]

Ham Sandwich Sued For Not Being Anything Like A Set Of Golf Clubs!

Got a lawyer? You can file suit. I don't quite get why people got so mightly pleased when they hear that someone of whom they don't approve now gets to spend a bunch of money to deal with the fact they just got sued. Because your neighbor could sue you for the fact that your hubcaps are too shiny, and the reflections aren't being properly stopped by their tinfoil hat. And you'd still have to hire a lawyer.

Re:This just in!

[V!NCENT]

I don't quite get why people got so mightly pleased when they hear that someone of whom they don't approve now gets to spend a bunch of money to deal with the fact they just got sued.

When humands feel that they are threatenend, they try to identify that threat. They like it when something is being done about that threat.

Basic human instinct.

Re:This just in!

[causality]

I don't quite get why people got so mightly pleased when they hear that someone of whom they don't approve now gets to spend a bunch of money to deal with the fact they just got sued.

Because if this lawsuit is successful, it could help to end a long series of persecution and, in my personal opinion, abuse of the legal system (IANAL). This is a good thing. There are solid principles involved here that have nothing to do with personal feelings of "approval".

It's simple. There are times when wrong things go on. There are times when the legal system has a good chance of correcting those wrong things. This is one of those times.

Because your neighbor could sue you for the fact that your hubcaps are too shiny, and the reflections aren't being properly stopped by their tinfoil hat. And you'd still have to hire a lawyer.

If that bore any resemblance to "ending persecution and abuse" then I would see your point. It doesn't, so I don't. Frivolous lawsuits do happen. All frivolous lawsuits are lawsuits; this does not mean that all lawsuits are frivolous. I mean no offense, but please tell me that I have misunderstood what you were getting at, that you in fact are not advocating a position with such a glaring and easily addressed flaw. It's quite easy and tempting to feel "jaded" about our legal system and this will cloud your reasoning if you allow it, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Please...

[Anachragnome]

...Let me be the first to say, "Its about fucking time".

Godwin's law...

[ethicalBob]

Wow... Godwin's law rears it's ugly head REALLY early in this thread.. Nice one.

Re:Godwin's law...

[gavron]

Godwin's law didn't rear it's[sic] ugly head.
You did.

Ehud

Re:Godwin's law...

[ethicalBob]

scubamage, (it could only be you, by the amount of offense taken to the replying commenter)...

That is a correct use of Godwin's; just because you were called out of in doesn't make it less true. Perhaps YOU should look up Godwin's law, and spend a little less time looking in the mirror trying to think of clever things to say... (FAIL)

As uttered by one John Wilkes Booth...

[TwoScoopsOfPig]

... sic semper tyrannus!

RIAA Abuse of Tax Payer Money

[olddotter]

While I would love to see this be the beginning of the end to the abuse of tax payer money for the services of the RIAA, I expect they will be around for a while.

I really do think the thousands of lawsuits they have brought are an unfair burden to the governments that support the courts these suits clog up. We have more important things to do with money in times like these. The RIAA needs to get with the program and give the people what they want, in the format they want it in. If they don't then ultimately they will be pushed aside no matter how ugly or bloody (hopefully figuratively) the battle becomes.

Re:FUCK ARTISTS

[Drakkenmensch]

That mostly has to do with their every single victory having later been overturned in appeals so far. However, I think that they would rather cut off their own legs than turn over a single penny to one of the artists they supposedly represent.

Not all artists record in Internet-popular genres

[tepples]

Seriously, what has the music industry given us lately except bland, pretty pop stars with little musical talent?

I imagine that some genres are far more popular among people without high-speed Internet access than among people with it, such as vocal jazz or country music. For artists who record in such genres, the record industry gives them distribution and promotion.

No layoffs for lawyers

[WidgetGuy]

In my junior year at college, I took an elective course in FORTRAN programming. The bug bit hard. I changed my major from pre-law to electrical engineering. I, then, went on to graduate studies and a 25+ year career in commercial software development (mostly in Silicon Valley). The money was great and I never "worked" a day in my life.

Until, that is, I turned 50.

All of a sudden, I couldn't buy a job. Worse, I had to endure being interviewed by 20-something project leads who thought hexadecimal was "some sort of weird religion" (hey, maybe they were right at that). Adding insult to injury, I later heard in one case that they decided not to offer me the position because they didn't think I was "technical enough."

But, with douche bag outfits like the RIAA, SCO and Microsoft around, it looks like the lawyers are (as usual) going to do just fine. No layoffs in that "profession" (except maybe for a lowly paralegal here and there).

Does anybody else here now wish they'd become a lawyer? Naw!

Re:No layoffs for lawyers

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

with douche bag outfits like the RIAA, SCO and Microsoft around, it looks like the lawyers are (as usual) going to do just fine. No layoffs in that "profession"

Not so. Lawyers have been getting laid off in droves. I am sure the RIAA lawyers are, or will be, among them. I only hope their prospective employers read my blog.

Re:No layoffs for lawyers

[lordSaurontheGreat]

Should have learned COBOL.

Re:No layoffs for lawyers

[shentino]

And I hope that one guy who had ethical qualms about doing what his client told him is going to be saved from any stigma?

Re:"PC on a computer"

[Stormwatch]

Yo dawg I herd you like PCs so we put a PC in yo PC so you can play a PC while u play a PC.

(seriously... virtualization software?)

Interesting timing

[Weaselmancer]

Massive layoffs just as consumers are starting to bring litigation against them. Just as soon as they actually need those lawyers...they're gone. With any luck we'll see more countersuits now that people know they're less able to defend themselves.

The irony is obvious if this trend continues. I'd love to see more layoffs and then a freaking gigantic class action countersuit of some kind. Nothing like having to defend against a vastly superior opponent, eh RIAA?

I like where this is heading.

Legal Insufficiency Huh?

[Nom du Keyboard]

If there's any legal insufficiency in any of this it's in the RIAA initial suit. Making Available != Actual Distribution, except in the pinhead minds of the RIAA themselves.

Re:As uttered by one Number Twenty One

[Culture20]

... Semper Fidelus Tyrannosaurus!

Re:W/Regards to layoffs: - Godwin's Law

[db32]

And have it it modded insightful!

Re:W/Regards to layoffs: - Godwin's Law

[iJusten]

There weren't any morally good Nazi soldiers. They were NAZIS. There were, however, good German career soldiers who served under Nazi regime. Talking about "good nazi soldiers" is like talking about "good republican soldiers serving in Iraq".

Way to go

[jandersen]

Sound like a good investment of record company resources, anyone?

I think it is brilliant - the more they engage in this idiocy, the sooner they will collapse. I have, as you might guess, little sympathy for a recording industry that for decades has tried to monopolise our culture with bland muzak, boy/girl bands and all the other, vapid crap that's out there. The real musicians - the ones who don't just stand by the assemblyline, mechanically producing trivial variations over the same, tired old theme over and over - they are not going to suffer, because the fact of the matter is that is amazingly easy to produce good quality recordings now. And with the big monopolies gone, maybe we could see some real renewal of the music world.

Sham Litigation

[stewbacca]

Sham litigation, eh? They're gonna love the shamwow/slapchop guys nuts.

Re:NewYorkCountryLawyer

[mcgrew]

Ray's my third favorite lawyer, right behind the woman who handled my divorce and the man who handled my bankrupcy. When you need a lawyer, you need a lawyer.