Slashdot Mirror


iPod Shuffle Finds Its Voice

theodp writes "Steve Jobs wasn't around to convince you that you should be impressed, but on Wednesday Apple unveiled a 4GB Shuffle that's half the size of its predecessor. Holding up to 1,000 songs, the pre-shrunk Shuffle sports a 10-hour battery life and also adds a new VoiceOver feature that can recite song titles, artists, and playlist names, as well as provide status information. Even without a show from Steve, the new player is generally leaving folks dazzled, although there are some complaints." Update: 3/14 at 14:10 by SS: Reader Mike points out some disturbing news that the new Shuffle contains DRM which, according to a review at iLounge, prevents it from fully working with any headphones that don't have an Apple "authentication chip."

379 comments

  1. And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe consumers will draw the line when Apple requires its users to install DRM-equipped electrodes in their own frontal lobes.

    Maybe.

    1. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      And before anyone says the Voice function is innovative, Rockbox has had it for years. Luckily Apple prevented the installation of Rockbox onto iPods with the 6th gen Classic :/

    2. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by CrankyFool · · Score: 3, Informative

      What in heaven's name are you talking about?

      The headphones have no DRM built into them. You could argue that, maybe, Apple is actually making the Shuffle 'closed-source' by requiring a user to use their headphones with their player (I'll insert the customary car analogy -- they're producing a car and restricting you to putting their wheels on their car!), but frankly Apple has long been in the business of coming up wit new ways of doing things and letting the rest of the market catch up. Unless we hear Apple stopping other people from producing headphones or adapters for this device, I'm going to assume that we'll soon see other vendors coming up with adapters and headphones for it. Oh, look, Scosche has already announced they're working on it.

    3. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by broken_chaos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is there actually any evidence of the chip being a DRM "authentication" chip, as opposed to just a non-standard control interface? A single iLounge review is hardly what I'd call conclusive evidence - considering they note in there that there are likely to be 3rd-party remotes that do not have headphones attached before long.

      While not an ideal situation, by far, I think it may not be quite as bad as your initial reaction paints it to be. It *is* also explicitly noted in the review that it still does play music through any headphones, and that the control is what's missing - not the music itself.

      I also highly doubt that any such headphones will become required on any other iPod devices, since the shuffle is the only thing Apple has constantly been trying to cut down the number of buttons on. Furthermore, I personally would welcome some 3rd-party remote-only accessories, as they seem like they'd be likely to work with other recent iPod models as well, when you don't feel like digging it out of your pocket.

    4. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by iamdrscience · · Score: 3, Informative

      What in heaven's name are you talking about? The headphones have no DRM built into them

      Oh really? The EFF disagrees: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/03/apple-adds-still-more-drm-ipod-shuffle

    5. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by broken_chaos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ah, you beat me to it (I replied below). This really doesn't seem anything beyond a non-standard control interface - particularly since it doesn't seem to fit the definition of "Digital Rights Management" at all. It more accurately fits "Physical Rights Management" - in terms of restricting what accessories are required to do something with their device. It does nothing to the (digital) music playback (music is reported to play just fine through any headphones).

      I wouldn't doubt that one could, with a little ingenuity, hack together some sort of standard headphone jack on the end of a cut-off earbud remote that currently comes with the shuffle, as well.

      Normally I support the EFF quite highly, but they seem to be jumping the gun a little on this one, going on the word of one iLounge review, as opposed to a report from someone actually taking the thing apart to see how it works - such as a manufacturer.

    6. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by broken_chaos · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's going, as I've noted in another reply, on a single iLounge review. Not exactly a technical analysis of what's going on inside the earphones. It sounds more like a non-standard control chip, as opposed to a DRM chip.

      See also my reply with the definition of Digital Rights Management (short version - the music is entirely unaffected and can play through any headphones).

    7. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Non-standard != proprietary DRM.

      People have already started announcing 3rd party accessories for the new iPod shuffle. It may not be a standard headphone jack, but it's not locked-down. I'm sure in a months time there will be people who've made their own iPod shuffle headphone controller just for the fun of it. If you want to talk about price of accessories making the whole package too expensive, then that's something else.

    8. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The EFF are doing exactly the same thing as the RIAA/MPAA do when they call copyright infringement stealing. They are using a similar but technically different term to describe something because of the emotional weight behind the word. It is dishonest and the EFF should be above doing it. Frankly I sense the presence of a certain attention grabbing campaigner behind this.

      What Apple has done is no different to mobile phones with non-standard power adapters, cars with non-standard stereo systems and cameras that use custom batteries. Sure all these things are a pain in the arse and companies should be 'discouraged' from doing them but they are not DRM.

      In addition might this not all be FUD or least a conspiracy theory? Every time a scare like this comes up in regard to Apple the evil anti-consumer thing they have supposedly done also happens to have size and aesthetic advantages. Maybe the new Shuffle has this 'DRM' requirement because they took the controls off the player to make it smaller. Of course you could also argue that this is just a convenient excuse.

      Also you don't have to buy a iPod or any Apple products. There are plenty of equally capable alternatives. If you don't like the product don't buy it.

    9. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The impression I get about the EFF is that they've become a bit too much like Greenpeace. I'm an environmentalist, but I do get sick of Greenpeace. I also don't like the DMCA, but the amount of spin coming from the EFF lately is a bit too much for me. When organisations like this start going after the small stuff, I think they undermine the very importance of what they're fighting for and just end up preaching to the choir.

    10. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      What else is new. The EFF has spent their entire existence trying to run out in front of every parade.

      You want to like the guys, but then you realize that they survive by pandering to the type of mongoloids who Slashdot and Digg appeal to.

    11. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by makomk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You must've missed the iPod TV out debacle. All the recent iPods won't do TV out unless they can detect a special Apple authentication chip in the TV out adapter. There's no technical reason for this - they're quite capable of doing TV out via old-fashioned adaptors without the chip, and I think some of them even display a message via the TV out in this case. The sole purpose is to require accessory manufacturers to get authorised and pay a per-item fee to Apple - enforced by the requirement to put the Apple-supplied lockout chip in each one.

      It really shouldn't surprise you if they start doing the same things with headphones.

    12. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Superiority. It just makes anything nicer. Certainly improves the experience of reading slashdot, huh?

    13. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      type of mongoloids who Slashdot and Digg appeal to

      The intelligent, principled ones?

    14. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Apple has long been in the business of coming up wit new ways of doing things and letting the rest of the market catch up

      Yeah, like the PowerPC, the Mighty Mouse (TM), and FireWire. The market will catch up around 2200 probably

      ps. I'm not an Apple hater, just saying :-)

    15. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      You want to like the guys, but then you realize that they survive by pandering to the type of mongoloids who Slashdot and Digg appeal to.

      We accept you, one of us! Gooble Gobble!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c43Sa4dztk

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    16. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by berend+botje · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Too bad Rockbox has "by techies, for techies" approach to the user interface.

      It really isn't very good.

    17. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by sortius_nod · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately when you have a cause people gravitate to the nutjobs do the same.

    18. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      It would be more appropriate to say they "SONYed" it than added DRM. It's the more generic term.

    19. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by jrothwell97 · · Score: 1

      mmm... and it wasn't at all similar to the 'use VoiceOver for menus' function activatable through iTunes. At all.

      --
      Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
    20. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by sagematt · · Score: 1

      Luckily Apple prevented the installation of Rockbox onto iPods with the 6th gen Classic :/

      Luckily for WHO? Not for me, at least.

    21. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by mrsquid0 · · Score: 5, Funny

      The thing that one needs to remember is that anyone, no matter who they are, who questions Apple or points out any problem with Apple's behaviour, is evil. Apple is always right. We are fortunate to be living at the same time that Apple exists.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    22. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      I don't think the IP issues with Apple are a big problem, so I must blindly support Apple on everything and never question them? You know, it is possible to both be a supporter of Free software and open hardware standards, yet also tolerate to some extent the practice of using today's IP laws in business.

    23. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Um, whoosh?

    24. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is debatable - what ilounge is claiming is that if you don't have headphones with controls all it does is play a loop of the playlist - because the player doesn't have any physical controls on the device.

      Apple is *forcing* you to buy their headphones if you want to control it and from what I understand is that 3rd parties cannot make these special headphones without a special chip only apple has.

      So yes - its drm.

      And while some 3rd party could reverse engineer the lockout chip apple could in turn shut them down with the dmca.

    25. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Firehed · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's going, as I've noted in another reply, on a single iLounge review. Not exactly a technical analysis of what's going on inside the earphones. It sounds more like a non-standard control chip, as opposed to a DRM chip.

      According to iLounge, even Apple's own previous headphones with remotes built in (for the iPhone and recent Nanos) refuse to control the new shuffle properly. So non-standard that it doesn't even work with your existing products seems pretty unlikely, though I'll happily be proven wrong if someone smashes open the remotes on either set of headphones and finds out what's in there.

      See also my reply with the definition of Digital Rights Management (short version - the music is entirely unaffected and can play through any headphones).

      Is the music player not also a digital device? It may not be DRM to the letter, but it's still technology to prevent you from freely interacting with your purchases.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    26. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Neuroipods

      A remarkable breakthrough in nanobiotechnology, neuroiPods are sub-microscopic media players implanted directly into the human cerebral cortex. Scheduled to hit the global electronics market sometime in the fourth quarter of 2007, the devices were successfully tested recently on a select group of human "guinea pigs" participating in an undisclosed Wiki site. Though the trials are still in progress, early results indicate almost complete success in nearly all test subjects.

      Powered directly by the tiny electrical impulses emitted by human neurons, neuroiPods do not require batteries and, with no moving parts, never wear out. In theory, a single neuroiPod injected into a human brain could operate as long as the "host" person is alive, or at least non-brain-dead. Since the unit requires no battery, no headphone jack, and no physical user interface (i.e., the LCD screen and control wheel found on larger iPods), the cost-per-unit is surprisingly low - with profit margins for the manufacturer, Apple, proportionally much higher than with other iPod models, including the next-smallest member of the iPod product line, the iPod yocto.

      The main drawback to the technology, however, is that the minuscule size of the neuroiPod reduces the amount of memory available for content to less than one kilobyte, barely enough to store three seconds of low-quality MP3 audio. (This is in contrast to the Yocto, which can store an entire half-song.) Moreover, since the unit is injected into the brain and remains there permanently, it cannot be easily reprogrammed, if at all. Also, if the neuroipod malfunctions, you will receive iEllepsy. By default, each neuroiPod comes pre-configured to endlessly repeat one of only two short MP3 audio files. The first consists of author William S. Burroughs saying, "If you have to explain it, it's not funny," over and over and over again. The second is an extract from an obscure 1930's British film about a newspaper reporter entitled Oh, Dear Winnie, in which long-dead character actor Ving Rhames says the words "oh dear, this must go on the front page," also over and over and over again.

      Shortly after the first human trials, it became clear that the cumulative effect of incessant, endless repetition of a single phrase over a long period of time might have unpredictable psychological implications. Several noted psychiatric experts, including Dr. Sigmundheimer F. Rhoid, author of the recently-published book Can't Stand It Anymore: The Truth About Brain-Injected Media Players, have publicly denounced Apple both in online forums and in the mainstream media. Several of these experts suggest that the neuroiPod is responsible for an alarming rise in cases of both Wikiphrenia and Wikipersecution Complex. As Rhoid stated in a recent interview, "This is no laughing matter. It was fun for a while, but people are suffering, and it's time to stop. Or rather, it will be time to stop, after this latest book of mine has sold out on its... I dunno, fourth printing or so?"

      In addition, a class-action lawsuit filed in the State of Michigan Supreme Court by a group known only as the Get On With It Foundation alleges that Apple, in conjunction with Wikicities, conspired to "waste inordinate amounts of peoples' time" by preconfiguring the neuroiPod test units with repeating media clips designed specifically to produce negative behavioral responses which, in turn, were intended only to vicariously provide cheap laughs for the Apple Research and Development Division.

    27. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I *am* a techie, you insensitive clod.

      Got a problem with that? Or are you just jealous, because my brain happens to work better than yours, when it comes to technical things? ;)

      I know that it is called racism (and rightfully so, most of the time) when you insult people because of their race. But it seems to be a-ok, to insult intelligent people, or make them look like something bad. Especially tech people.

      Unfortunately, tech people then usually buy right into that too, and think they really are worse than the average guy who gets all the women.
      I'm sorry my friend. But this time is over. We're not the "Oh, you think you are so much better. Well you're a piece of shit" nerds for you anymore. We *know* that we actually *are* (by definition) so much better (in technical things). So what? You may be better in other things. So what?

      I say, we should get girls, not despite, but because we are techies.

      (Don't you Americans usually say "Who's with me?" in this moments. ;)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    28. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apple is *forcing* you to buy their headphones if you want to control it and from what I understand is that 3rd parties cannot make these special headphones without a special chip only apple has.

      The problem being, this part is just speculation at this point and seems unlikely. No one has seen said chip or tried to reverse engineer the new interface from Apple.

      So yes - its drm.

      Assuming said speculation was true it wouldn't be DRM, but it would be intentionally enforced hardware component lock-in. If you want to call it DRM, go ahead, but it is inaccurate. Either way it is annoying and likely actionable if someone had the legal muscle.

      And while some 3rd party could reverse engineer the lockout chip apple could in turn shut them down with the dmca.

      ...if any such chip exists as opposed to the more likely scenario that Apple built a nonstandard interface and did not include a special locking chip. So far, all anyone has seen is the interface, not this supposed chip.

    29. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by pdabbadabba · · Score: 1

      Wow. A bit hypersensitive maybe?

      He wasn't saying there is anything wrong with being a "techie", just that it isn't a good thing when only techies can understand an interface. Because, *gasp* most people aren't techies.

      I would imagine that virtually everyone here is a techie, including the GP so, don't worry, you're among friends. :)

      Other than that, yes, I'm with you.

    30. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by dotancohen · · Score: 2, Funny

      Too bad Rockbox has "by techies, for techies" approach to the user interface.

      The same could be said of KDE. Hasn't stopped it's adoption has it?

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    31. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by diamondsw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, the "video lockout" chip was the same deal as Nintendo and their custom chips in old NES cartridges. It was a response to crap flooding the market - from Chinese knockoffs these days - and such knockoffs even caused damage to the iPods. It's to control their licensing, yes, but how does that really affect you moving forward, other than what hooks up to your iPod is guaranteed to work and be of decent quality? I haven't seen a single example of Apple denying the chip to a company who has requested it, so I don't see the big deal.

      The "DRM" here is much more likely tied to the fact that the controls are on the damn headphones, so of course you can't hook up normal headphones. How are you supposed to play/pause/etc? Stupid damn decision in the first place, and one I hope we see reversed on the next generation.

      --
      I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
    32. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by jcr · · Score: 2, Funny

      Have you ever tried decaf? Seriously, look into it.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    33. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by berend+botje · · Score: 1

      If this is how you overreact in real life, I can see why you have trouble with women.

      This is a technical website, have you actually considered I might be a techie too? One with better social skills, but still, a techie nonetheless.

      The point I was trying to make was that non-techies (also known as 'consumers') don't want an interface designed by and for technical people. They don't want (nor need) support for a gazillion file formats. They don't want to play Doom on their mp3-player.

      What they do want is to have their mp3 player, well, play mp3's! Without having to navigate through seven levels of menu options.

      Maybe I shouldn't have include techies in general. So let me rephrase my assertion:

      Too bad Rockbox has a "by clueless techies, for clueless techies" approach to the user interface.

      There. Happy now?

      And, prick that you are, you called me American. So who's the insulting one here?

    34. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by berend+botje · · Score: 1

      KDE? Is that still around after the 4.0 disaster?

    35. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by DJ+Particle · · Score: 1

      Actually it's not DRM, as there's no copyright being protected by this. Lock-in, yes... DRM, no. Though, if the stories about cheap Chinese accessories damaging iPods has any truth to it, then that would be a halfway good reason for the chips. Only halfway though...this is one matter where "caveat emptor" should be applied. You get what you pay for, but you should have the right to use it anyway.

    36. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 2, Informative

      I haven't seen a single example of Apple denying the chip to a company who has requested it, so I don't see the big deal.

      Find me a TV-out cable for my iphone that costs less than $30.

      That's the big deal for me. (No really, find me one, because I'd love to get one, but I refuse to pay $40-50 for what should be a $4-5 purchase)

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    37. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by American+Terrorist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The impression that I get about Apple is that they've become a bit too much like RIAA, minus the "association". I'm a fan of innovative user interfaces, but the locked-down MP3 players and cell phones are too annoying for me to use. If my friends have non-DRM protected music on their iPod, they can't* share music with me, and since I don't have i-tunes, I can't share music with them. I like my girlfriend's iPod nano as far as usability, but giving her music to put on it is such a pain in the ass. iTunes is like the bastard child of RealPlayer and IE. *without using DMCA violating software

    38. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was a response to crap flooding the market - from Chinese knockoffs these days

      Battered wife syndrome? "He only hits me 'coz I make him mad".

    39. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What you lose in simple, pretty UI design; you gain back in features and usability. Of particular note is Rockbox's support for a number of music formats (FLAC and APE come to mind). Rockbox's greatest feature though IMO, is the fact that I can simply plug it into any computer with a USB port and drag a music file right onto my Ipod, just like a regular flash drive, and it'll play. I can organize my music into folders and don't necessarily have to rely on various ID3 tags or "Smart playlists" in order to organize my music the way I want. This point alone is what drove me to Rockbox. After my ipod crashed once and corrupted my Itunes database, I either had to create a new database or find a few special program that would repair the database. The former option is all that's available to most users and it means having to retransfer all your music over the corruption of a stupid database, never mind the fact that all the music files are still there on the ipod in perfect working order, albeit all renamed to hash number. Oh, and should you want that kind of database support, Rockbox provides that too. And should you need to get back into Itunes on your Ipod you can merely shut the Ipod off, turn it on, and throw the hold switch on before the Apple logo disappears and you'll boot straight into Apple OS. So rockbox even supports dual booting.

      Apple may make kick ass hardware devices, but their software plays to the same tune that M$ does.

    40. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by zecg · · Score: 1

      Yes, the "video lockout" chip was the same deal as Nintendo and their custom chips in old NES cartridges. It was a response to crap flooding the market - from Chinese knockoffs these days - and such knockoffs even caused damage to the iPods. It's to control their licensing, yes, but how does that really affect you moving forward, other than what hooks up to your iPod is guaranteed to work and be of decent quality? I haven't seen a single example of Apple denying the chip to a company who has requested it, so I don't see the big deal.

      That's bullshit. Just look at the prices of Apple accessories and tell me that $30 for a cable is because of its superior quality. Apple can protect their brand name and offer official licensing, but I should be able to choose. I'd rather take a risk and buy a cable that's 10 times cheaper.

      --
      .i lu doi ringos.star. xu do puku'aroroi dunli dopecaku leni virnu li'u
    41. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nah, as long as the scar for the operation is as slick and cool looking as the rest of Apple's products, I'd be down for frontal lobe implants

    42. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      Let me give you a hint: girls aren't into arrogant assholes despite what rap videos would lead you to believe.

    43. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem being, this part is just speculation at this point and seems unlikely. No one has seen said chip or tried to reverse engineer the new interface from Apple.

      Even ignoring that there may not be any physical chip save for something small that spits out a few signals for play/pause, next, stop. I wouldn't be at all suprised to learn that there is a patent on this use of the technology and that Apple owns it. On top of that, I'm sure they would abuse the DMCA or other laws, to prevent people from reverse engineering the design and making their own copies. The Chinese will make rip offs, they always do, and the headphones will be half as cheap as Apple's, but no one in the US will be able to make their own version of the headphone without fearing lawsuit from Apple.

    44. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      When organisations like this start going after the small stuff, I think they undermine the very importance of what they're fighting for and just end up preaching to the choir.

      Small stuff? For how long has headphone plugs been standardized? Doing anything to revert this status in an attempt to have only "apple authorized" headphones work is as big as things like these get.

    45. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by thebigbadme · · Score: 1

      Have you ever tried decaf? Seriously, look into it.

      -jcr

      Oh here we go with the flavor-of-the-moment religious zeal again ;)

      --
      "It's the Law of the Universe, and I'm the sheriff." Slash-cott 2/10-2/17
    46. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by FourthAge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      DRM apologist! Stop it. Just STOP IT.

      Like the EFF say, Apple's abuses would not be tolerated if they came from Microsoft, Ford or Toyota.

      Abuses like this are always tolerated by the Apple geeks. No matter what Apple does, there an apologist who is ready to explain why it's necessary and important. It's like listening to early 20th century intellectuals apologising for the Soviet Union. No matter what happened in the USSR, the intellectuals were ready to explain why Stalin was a great guy. They were talking ideologically-inspired bollocks. Similarly, the Apple you believe in, and the Apple that really exists, are very different.

      So stop it. Stop this stupid "Apple is good" groupthink, because Apple aren't good. If they ever were, then this incident and the TV out incident should tell you that things have changed. Apple is Microsoft, but in fashionable and more expensive clothes, and it's time we all admitted that.

      (Score -1, Insulted Apple)

      --
      The tao of democracy: the government you can vote for is not the real government.
    47. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, you beat me to it (I replied below). This really doesn't seem anything beyond a non-standard control interface - particularly since it doesn't seem to fit the definition of "Digital Rights Management" at all. It more accurately fits "Physical Rights Management" - in terms of restricting what accessories are required to do something with their device. It does nothing to the (digital) music playback (music is reported to play just fine through any headphones).

      I wouldn't doubt that one could, with a little ingenuity, hack together some sort of standard headphone jack on the end of a cut-off earbud remote that currently comes with the shuffle, as well.

      Normally I support the EFF quite highly, but they seem to be jumping the gun a little on this one, going on the word of one iLounge review, as opposed to a report from someone actually taking the thing apart to see how it works - such as a manufacturer.

      From TFL posted with the EFF stance on why it's DRM:

      Normally, of course, independent headphone makers could simply reverse engineer the interface. The "authentication chip" is there so that Apple's lawyers can invoke the DMCA to block those efforts. So this shows us, yet again, what DRM is for -- not stopping piracy, but rather impeding competition and innovation.

      So no, it's not just a non-standard interface, they added an authentication chip to a non-standard interface so other headphone makers couldn't just create their own version of it.

    48. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a techy, I consider that a feature ;P

      Seriously though, why would I want an interface that was dumbed down to the lowest common denominator?

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    49. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Even ignoring that there may not be any physical chip save for something small that spits out a few signals for play/pause, next, stop. I wouldn't be at all suprised to learn that there is a patent on this use of the technology and that Apple owns it.

      Maybe they do, but they have patents on lots of physical interfaces and they license them to other manufacturers. Thid parties have already announced headphones with controls that will work with this interface.

      On top of that, I'm sure they would abuse the DMCA or other laws, to prevent people from reverse engineering the design and making their own copies.

      They can't use the DMCA as this is not a copyright protection mechanism. Other parties already are making their own implementations. I don't know if they had to license a patent and neither do you. Does it matter?

      ...no one in the US will be able to make their own version of the headphone without fearing lawsuit from Apple.

      You are misinformed.

    50. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by zmollusc · · Score: 1, Troll

      Well put.
      I would like to add 'Fuck Apple. Fuck them up their stupid assholes'.

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    51. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by gabebear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow... fanatics like you make it hard to have a conversation about why DRM is bad. This looks like a stupid design choice, possibly meant to lock out 4th-party manufacturers, but it's not DRM. As the GP wrote, there are legitimate reasons for locking out 3rd-parties, such as keeping people from making cheap knock-offs. This problem involves physical products and solves a real-world problem. DRM doesn't solve any real-world problems...

    52. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by extrasolar · · Score: 2, Funny

      He wasn't saying there is anything wrong with being a "techie", just that it isn't a good thing when only techies can understand an interface. Because, *gasp* most people aren't techies.

      But I'm not most people. How does it matter what other people think about the interface?

      But yeah, the other guy was overreacting.

    53. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by WCguru42 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Fair point, Rockbox offers a ton of neat features, but when you look at UI design for people that are, how do you put it, stupid when it comes to computers, they do not want that. They want something to hold their hands, to keep them from screwing up and to give them fewer choices so there's less to think about. That style of design doesn't make much sense for people that are good with computers, but for people that struggle with them (the majority of the world) it's far better. Maybe in 10 or 20 years Apple's design paradigm won't work because there will be enough people that grew up with computers that there won't be a strong enough market for simple UI.

      It's similar to cars, most people want an automatic, you don't have to think about it, but those who understand their cars want manuals because it's just better. But try convincing someone who struggles with a manual to switch and you'd be better off banging your head against an engine block. Or, to put it in a more familiar way, "Why would you pick an automatic over a manual? You get more control over your vehicle, you get better gas mileage, all you have to do is right foot down, left foot up. It just doesn't make any sense."

      --
      "Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
    54. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by WCguru42 · · Score: 0

      Show me a standard video out on an iPod and I'll believe you. I don't know how data is output from the iPod connector at the base of an iPod but there's a good chance it's not your standard video signal. There's probably some data processing that has to be done at the connection point before the information can pass through the cable. So yeah, you can buy a cable for a few bucks but it isn't going to process any non-video output for you.

      --
      "Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
    55. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by WCguru42 · · Score: 1

      type of mongoloids who Slashdot and Digg appeal to

      The intelligent, principled ones?

      You must be new here.

      --
      "Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
    56. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by linhares · · Score: 2, Funny

      Luckily Apple prevented the installation of Rockbox onto iPods with the 6th gen Classic :/ Luckily for WHO? Not for me, at least.

      Oh, you must be new here.

    57. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by pdabbadabba · · Score: 1

      It sounded to me as though he was trying to make a general evaluation of the interface, not recommend it to you specifically. That's why it matters what most people will think about the interface.

    58. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Where does this belief that power and ease of use are mutually-exclusive come from?

    59. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      I know we're all definition Nazis around here, but does it really matter whether Apple's closed headphone is actually DRM (apparently a sensitive issue with Apple fans) or just an Apple lock-in.

      Horse shit is as good as Cow shit to a user who is "deaf" because he can't plug in his quality headphones.

    60. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Swift2001 · · Score: 1

      Your angry response is a perfect example of the attitude of many of the "techies" here. The problem with it is evident in your reply. Look up the definition of the word "elitist." It's not "bigoted" to criticize the elitist attitude you exemplify. An attitude is not like race, sex or any other thing people can't change. It is an internal defensiveness. There's nothing wrong with being a techie, but if you make things for just the techies, you won't sell very many. A company wants everybody to buy their products. So you bury the techie roots of the technology, and make it easy for Aunt Emmy to use. That way, you become a household word, and... what's the expression? Oh, you can change the world in some small way, while making yourself a bundle.

    61. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Swift2001 · · Score: 1

      Since the headphones contain the controls, I'd presume that the cable has to have a command set that it sends to the player. I agree, this is DRM only if Apple makes it impossible for third parties to develop adapters or headsets with controllers of their own will it be "DRM." With the first iPhone, the recessed headphone jack made most headsets useless; but it wasn't long before third parties made adapters. The second iPhone accepts any jack. If you can show that there's a unique, proprietary identifier in the new iPod that accepts only Apple headsets, then that's unfair. But it's already clear that that's not what's happening here.

    62. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by bar-agent · · Score: 1

      According to iLounge, even Apple's own previous headphones with remotes built in (for the iPhone and recent Nanos) refuse to control the new shuffle properly. So non-standard that it doesn't even work with your existing products seems pretty unlikely, though I'll happily be proven wrong if someone smashes open the remotes on either set of headphones and finds out what's in there.

      The previous remotes just handled click and double-click. The new iPod Shuffle requires click-and-hold. Isn't it more likely that the new headphone needs different control signals than the old headphone? Maybe the old one sent a click signal and the new one sends a click signal and a release signal?

      "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
    63. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Swift2001 · · Score: 1

      Apple is not always right, but there exists on Slashdot and other places (like EFF) a number of what we call "drama queens," always taking the worst interpretation of anything.

      See the "made for iPod" badge on accessories? That just means it's endorsed. They'll sell it in the Apple Stores. Look around the web. There's lots of stuff that isn't authorized that works anyway.

    64. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Swift2001 · · Score: 1

      To make the analogy with another era, I was against the war in Vietnam, but I wasn't going to blow up a townhouse about it. I marched, I signed petitions, and tried to stay away from the tear gas. But there's always the people who love the smell of tear gas because they think it makes them 'better,' and 'purer.'

    65. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by broken_chaos · · Score: 1

      Is the music player not also a digital device? It may not be DRM to the letter, but it's still technology to prevent you from freely interacting with your purchases.

      It's not a digital purchase, which is where DRM comes into play. If the headphones stopped particular music tracks from playing? It'd be DRM. If the headphones gave you a low quality signal on certain tracks? It'd be DRM.

      This is not DRM. It may not be the best situation ever, but it's not DRM - it's, as other people have noted, a 3rd-party accessory lock-in, at it's worst - which has reasons such as crap flooding the market that damages the devices, and can give Apple a bad name for their iPod having a high failure rate (instead of the no-name 3rd party accessory getting a bad name).

      If you're calling this DRM because it "prevents" you from interacting with your music purchases (by lacking controls), then you need a serious reality check - since I can say that any MP3 player that doesn't have X feature is DRM, since it won't let me do X with my music.

    66. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Swift2001 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Can I ask you to stop the "Apple is evil" groupthink? Automatically jumping to the conclusion that whatever they do is evil because it isn't free, isn't Linux, isn't techie enough? They've come up with a new controller, which 3rd parties will adapt to just like they always have.

      On these forums, I've been told endlessly that iTunes would never give up DRM, that it was all Jobs' idea, and so on ad infinitum. The truth is that Jobs adopted it reluctantly, and that he saw its days were numbered. The labels were angry enough at iTunes' dominance in the market that they gave Amazon and other DRM-free catalogs just to hurt Apple commercially. But the "Apple is evil" crowd that infests these forums insists on their vision.

      As for the "this kind of behavior wouldn't be tolerated from Microsoft" meme, since we're talking about the Zune here, nothing they do is important at all.

      They changed the controller chip. End of story.

    67. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by broken_chaos · · Score: 1

      And the headphone plug is still a 3.5mm standard jack, and will play music through any headphones just fine. The control interface is what's missing, which I'm unaware of any standardization on.

    68. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by broken_chaos · · Score: 1

      *scratches head* I think you're overreacting. Apple has never sued individuals over copyright infringements. Apple tends towards using DRM to lock down hardware (and being open about it - if you don't like it, don't use it) as opposed to software (aside from OSX - which can be argued is a form of brand name protection, from cheap knock-off computers - I believe they've had a lot of experience with this in the 1990s).

      As far as music sharing goes, you can pull the MP3/M4A/etc. files right out of your iTunes directory (or just tell it to not move them there in the first place), and share them just fine. Unless you also consider music-playing phones and other devices that require some sync program for music to be evil, since you can't copy all the tracks straight off the device.

      As far as the DMCA goes, perhaps it would be a better use of your time to lobby against it's existence, instead of complain about corporations (which are generally psychopathic, greedy entities - and are basically required to be by law) using the law to extend their own profits.

    69. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by broken_chaos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's no evidence of an authentication chip beyond an iLounge review that sounds like speculation. 3rd-parties have already announced earphones and remotes for the new shuffle. The iLounge review did not dissect or attempt to reverse engineer the earphone controls, so I do not think they're qualified to be a authoritative source on what is or isn't inside the remote.

    70. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Yes, but pretty much any mp3 player that's not an iPod offers those features.

      I'm more interested in the weird features. I want a game boy emulator built in, I want to have guttenberg texts read aloud to me, etc.

    71. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by DECS · · Score: 1

      You are completely wrong on two counts on this "DRM in headphones" nonsense.

      Apple has used a form of DRM in the recent generations of iPods to limit how commercial video content could be exported, in part to placate studios so they will allow Apple to resell their commercial content, and in part to monetize iPod video accessories, apparently.

      In this case, however, there's no DRM involved in the iPod shuffle's headphones. It's a simple click mechanism that signals play controls to the device over a fourth conductor headphone jack. There are third parties bringing compatible integrated-control headphones to market, although its not yet clear if they are licensing the (probably patented) technology from Apple, or simply able to design a compatible implementation.

      If there is an authentication chip, it is an example of at worst a proprietary design and at best a new innovative standard in controlling devices via the headphones, something Apple first rolled out with the iPhone. Why not have the device in your pocket, and simply navigate by touching the headphone wire? It is not, however, an example of DRM, because it has nothing to do with digital rights management. It's a security mechanism.

      Why is it Apple's moral duty to enrich third parties? Nobody posts complaints to Slashdot when Sony or any other company releases an accessory that only works on its own models. This is such absurd bullshit. If you don't like the product, don't buy it.

      But secondly, your kind needs to shut the fuck up with the simpleton, ignorant ranting against DRM.

      DRM secures the rights of content producers to distribute their work as they want. It's not going away because you can organize a circle jerk complaint session amongst your fellow commercial content thieves and people who don't use commercial content and are therefore irrelevant to the subject of DRM.

      It isn't obsolete or doomed because it can and will eventually be broken, any more than physical locks are obsolete or doomed because they can always be removed or bypassed by people who are intent on getting around them. DRM is a deterrent to protect a business model, just like every other security system. You might as well bitch about the shoplifting mechanisms in retail stores that are there to slow down the thieving sprees of people who end up making products cost more.

      DRM in the iPhone App Store has been essential in creating a functional market that attracts both users and developers, and gives both what they want: cheap fresh content for users and volume sales for a sustainable developer revenue stream.

      DRM on iTunes music similarly allows labels to limit the simplicity of users' ability to widely copy around digital songs, creating a real market where users can now buy commercial content at consistent quality and with better production than the thieves stealing content on torrents.

      Music labels didn't "sue their customers," they fucking sued the thieves and digital counterfeiters who thought that they could fuck the music industry by stealing its content rather than just refusing to buy its overpriced, poor quality bullshit products.

      Prior to music moving to digital files, the limiting factor of DRM was provided by a physical analog: the fact that CDs bonded music to a plastic platter, and removing it to cassette resulted in a significant loss of sound quality. Coping music from cassettes or LPs did the same, limiting how content could be resold or distributed outside of authorized channels. Copying songs off the radio similarly gave you a degraded experience.

      DRM usually attempts to artificially degrade the signal the same way, although it does not in iTunes when users burn their own tracks to CD.

      That physical analog to DRM has also worked for books, which are infeasible to casually copy in unauthorized ways because the text on paper is a lot of the value of buying a book. Digital books, like those for the Kindle, are so much easier to distribute that the format needs DRM to prevent widespread piracy.

    72. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by adisakp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Assuming said speculation was true it wouldn't be DRM, but it would be intentionally enforced hardware component lock-in. If you want to call it DRM, go ahead, but it is inaccurate. Either way it is annoying and likely actionable if someone had the legal muscle.

      According to Apple's VP of iPod marketing, third parties will soon be selling a small cable with the controls on it that you can plug any headphones into. It's not even a "lockout". Basically they have an extra hardware feature on their headphones that isn't standard. To get these hardware features, you need to buy Apple headphones or a third party adapter with this hardware feature. Actually, you can still use any headphones but without the additional hardware buttons on the adapter or on Apple headphones you lose the control features. It's hardly DRM.

    73. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by adisakp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      BTW, Where is the outrage for the "DRM" of Google using a weird USB headphone adapter on Android phones?

    74. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad Rockbox has "by techies, for techies" approach to the user interface.

      It really isn't very good.

      Too bad that Apple products have no features at all except of the "like-it-or-hate-it" interface.

    75. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't seen a single example of Apple denying the chip to a company who has requested it, so I don't see the big deal.

      Find me a TV-out cable for my iphone that costs less than $30.

      That's the big deal for me. (No really, find me one, because I'd love to get one, but I refuse to pay $40-50 for what should be a $4-5 purchase)

      http://www.windowsmobilenow.com/us/p_wm_acc1.aspx?i=179529&partner=wmusfroogle

      This took me about 10 seconds on Google. Lazy bastard.

    76. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by DECS · · Score: 4, Informative

      The EFF, and specifically Fred von Lohmann, is not only taking a shaky position here, but expressing it ignorantly. The group is getting good at going on witch hunts without really knowing what they're talking about.

      For starters, comparing Apple against Microsoft, Ford, Toyota is not just stupid, but apeshit retarded. Microsoft isn't a principally hardware maker, but its hardware IS all encrusted with DRM, from the Xbox to Zune. It also promotes WMA/WMV DRM on files and HD-DVD style end to end video output DRM on PCs, so von Lohmanns' comments are ridiculous.

      Ford and Toyota all use proprietary parts in their vehicles that can not be swapped out for third party bits from any supplier a user might want to pick from.

      But secondly, the guy doesn't even verify the information he's complaining about at full speed. Fred von Lohmann is a shoot first, gather details later kind of guy. He was the same EFF staffer who wrote, "Apple is among the worst offenders when it comes to messing around with stuff you've already paid for. But iTunes 7.2 is likely to be remembered for the especially wicked tricks it plays on iTunes customers."

      That's the same whiney moralist language he's using here, but he was wrong about iTunes 7.2 removing the ability to rip tracks to CD. That didn't stop him from prattling on about it.

      Von Lohmann thought iTunes could no longer burn and re-rip music after reading about it in a blog. He was wrong, because the blogger he believed was also mistaken. However, von Lohmann did not correct his posting accusing Apple of "removing the feature" from iTunes; he also cited [EFF's Peter] Eckersley's "previous revelations" [erroneous nonsense about metadata spying in iTunes] as proof Apple could not be trusted.

      Apple's 'Especially Wicked Tricks.'

    77. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Archimonde · · Score: 1

      Just to give you an example more, I have ipod nano (previous gen) and iphone. I already had apple ipod radio remote from my previous ipod. Interestingly enough, the remote works with the nano, but it won't work with the iphone. It is completely unacceptable, because not only they use the same proprietary connector, they are made by the same company (apple).

      --
      Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
    78. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      Ummmm, don't buy iPods? Seriously, there are *lots* of perfectly good alternatives and Apple will quickly drop such schemes if they see sales going down.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    79. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      Too bad Rockbox has "by techies, for techies" approach to the user interface.

      The same could be said of KDE. Hasn't stopped it's adoption has it?

      Well, it hasn't stopped the adoption of KDE by techies. How many non-techies do you know of who would go into a BestBuy and say, "But does it run KDE or some derivative thereof?"

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    80. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      You should take a look at KDE 4.2. You will be pleasantly surprised.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    81. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      Well, it hasn't stopped the adoption of KDE by techies. How many non-techies do you know of who would go into a BestBuy and say, "But does it run KDE or some derivative thereof?"

      If my 74 year old mother in law, who closes IE and reopens it to get back to her Google homepage, can install and use Kubuntu (I burned the disk and left it at that) then trust me anybody can do it. And that was Kubuntu 8.04: next month it will be two versions behind! Trust me, Linux and KDE have come a long way.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    82. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      what a hopeless excuse of an excuse.
      "It was a response to crap flooding the market - from Chinese knockoffs these days - and such knockoffs even caused damage to the iPods."

      Every single manufacturer on the market can build a device that will work just fine with these chineese knock-offs, without damaging the device - we're talking about a couple of plugs and a piece of wire, or a plug, wire and two earphones.

      But Apple chooses to make their devices so fragile that a fart can damage them, then prevent use of wrong equipment by... refusing to send signal over cable that was plugged in but not approved??? If the cable was to damage the device, it just did it the moment you plugged it, no matter what you send over it! It will manage to correctly 'refuse to cooperate' only if the device was harmless and would work fine in the first place.

      So, it seems you are claiming Apple engineers weren't really evil, just terminally retarded.
       

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    83. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by makomk · · Score: 1

      Nope, video is just a straight wire through on all the iPods and iPhones, as I understand it. The chip is for authentication only.

    84. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by makomk · · Score: 1

      Nope, that's what it used to mean. On some of the newer stuff - or at least on the video out cables - it means that it has a special Apple-supplied authentication chip, without which the accessory won't be accepted by the newer iPods and iPhones. The only purpose of the chip is to force the use of authorised accessories. There's even several levels of authorisation, each with their own chip (and their own requirements, and presumably fees).

      For example, try getting a cheap unauthorised third-party video out cable for the iPhone 3G and recent-model iPods. As far as I know, there aren't any, because the lockout chip hasn't been reverse-engineered.

    85. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      I didn't say they haven't come a long way, but only techies *request* any Linux installation. Ease of adoption != actual adoption.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    86. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by poopdeville · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ignorance. Or arrogance. Hubris either way.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    87. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously dude? He wasn't insulting techies. Just saying things designed for techies aren't good for the general public.

      I'm a techie myself, I still don't recommend difficult to use software and hardware to most of my friends because I don't want to have to help them use it. So, what he said is true, something designed "by techies, for techies" really isn't that great for the vast majority of people.

    88. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Swift2001 · · Score: 1

      So, if you buy a $79 iPod, you get headphones with it. If you don't like those, you have to get an apple-licensed cable or headset or whatever. Big flippin' deal. If you want to use your already-existing expensive earbuds, just wait for the aftermarket.

      If you want to spend $300 on the headset for a $79 iPod, go ahead. It won't be long before they show up, because I think a lot of people will buy these things.

      In case you haven't noticed, the older iPods used a cable to control them, but they were dropped. I never used them. But the new Shuffle has *zero* controls on the body itself. No wheel or pseudo-wheel. So the controls have to be in the wire. So there has to be a chip in there somewhere. If you don't pay the licensing fee, I imagine they can tell you to take a hike. Since the market is created by Apple, they get to decide the licensing. As long as they're decent about it, what's the problem?

      You can also use just about any mouse with a Mac. That's because there are standards in the industry. There are no standards in the "attach some earbuds to the player that have the control signals built in" standards, are they?

      Has EFF done a complete analysis of the new Shuffle, that proves that this is "DRM," or are they just spouting off at the Doctorow?

      You have many other choices, of course. You can buy any number of other players.

    89. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I know that it is called racism (and rightfully so, most of the time) when you insult people because of their race. But it seems to be a-ok, to insult intelligent people, or make them look like something bad

      Being a techie doesn't make one intelligent (as your post clearly demonstrates). Many techies are approximately as intelligent as a bag of hammers.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    90. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by jthorpe · · Score: 1

      I agree. Looking at this picture, there are no "DRM chips" in the remote: http://s2.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/kFbNaWbE3NBPWbew.large It's probably just a few resistors between the buttons and ground connection to signal which button has been pressed. This is no different to the fact that my Nokia phone, which works as an audio player has a 2.5mm socket rather than a 3.5mm socket. Just like with my phone, it's only a matter of time before attachments become available that have the same set of buttons on a small attachment that then allows connectivity from standard earphones.

    91. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by dangitman · · Score: 1

      It does nothing to the (digital) music playback

      You obviously don't seem to be aware that the music going to the headphones is an analog signal, not digital.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    92. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by dangitman · · Score: 1

      So yes - its drm.

      No. DRM has a more specific meaning. This is proprietary hardware. DRM is about restricting the use of media using encryption.

      I'm not defending it - it's a stupid thing, and Apple is being very anti-consumer in implementing it this way. But there's no reason to call it something it's not. Has "proprietary" really lost so much of its negative connotations that people must scramble to call everything by the new buzzword "DRM"? That's really stupid, because it just dilutes the meaning of the term, which will make it easier for the likes of the RIAA to confuse the general public.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    93. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by snowwrestler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And your position is like the anti-Communist witch-hunting that pursued anyone who was not as strident in their positions as the hunters thought they should be. There's a vast middle ground between apologists saying everything is great and zealots calling everything the end of the world. Most people just don't give a shit about B2B supplier contract issues like this.

      The EFF is foolish to waste time on this when (for example) the entire end-user online video experience remains horribly laden with real actual Digital Rights Management schemes. A propriety part in a hardware accessory is NOT DRM. The EFF of all people should know better.

      --
      Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    94. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by story645 · · Score: 1

      If you want to use your already-existing expensive earbuds, just wait for the aftermarket.

      How about if I want to run out and buy headphones from any old drugstore when my "comes with shuffle" headphones fry? I've bought every brand under the sun and am finally having some luck, and the apple equivalent is 3 times as much (assuming they'll make it in a form that works with the shuffle.) I adore the shuffles and would be all for buying the new one, 'cept those headphones aren't gonna survive more than a month with me.

      The psps's also had a control cable on the earphone line, but you could plug any old headphones into the control line. The new shuffle doesn't have that.

      --
      open source modern art: laser taggi
    95. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Toonol · · Score: 1

      More accurately, it's HRM... Headphone Rights Management. Apple wants to control which headphones you may use, and in what fashion.

    96. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      For starters, comparing Apple against Microsoft, Ford, Toyota is not just stupid, but apeshit retarded.

      Nice ad-hominem start with your argument. What next?

      Microsoft isn't a principally hardware maker, but its hardware IS all encrusted with DRM, from the Xbox to Zune. It also promotes WMA/WMV DRM on files and HD-DVD style end to end video output DRM on PCs, so von Lohmanns' comments are ridiculous.

      Yes, because everyone tolerates Microsoft and no one has criticised them for their DRM. Oh wait, they have.

      No one is claiming that Microsoft are fine and Apple are bad - that's a straw man. The point is that just as Microsoft are bad for using DRM, so are Apple - but for some reason, even though DRM is hated here, just because it's Apple suddenly it's okay, and we have no end of apologists crawling out of the woodwork to defend them.

      But secondly, the guy doesn't even verify the information he's complaining about at full speed.

      So is he wrong here? I don't care what he allegedly said earlier (sorry, if he's stupid for trusting what he reads in a blog, then I'm not going to trust this Apple blog either), I want to see the evidence that the claims about Apple here are not true.

    97. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      In what sense is it "small"? And even if it iwas, the whole point is that if we don't tolerate it, we shouldn't tolerate it in any form. Otherwise it will start to become acceptable in the marketplace, and that makes more prevalent usages of DRM easier to introduce.

    98. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      The EFF are doing exactly the same thing as the RIAA/MPAA do when they call copyright infringement stealing.

      Um, no - and if we are going to make this kind of analogy, that is what you are doing.

      Yes, there is a difference between simply using a non-standard headphone socket (as in your mobile phone example), and DRM. But RTFA - what we have here is that the headphone socket is compatible, and indeed, you can plug in normal headphones and play music. But if a chip is not present in the headphones, the Ipod will limit many important features. So this isn't simply a non-standard interface. The reason for it seems unclear. And since it uses technology to limit what features are available when playing back digital media, I think calling it DRM is reasonable (DRM isn't just about preventing copying - consider all the uproar about Vista limiting the resolution on some playback devices, or whatever).

      In addition might this not all be FUD or least a conspiracy theory? Every time a scare like this comes up in regard to Apple the evil anti-consumer thing they have supposedly done also happens to have size and aesthetic advantages. Maybe the new Shuffle has this 'DRM' requirement because they took the controls off the player to make it smaller. Of course you could also argue that this is just a convenient excuse.

      Classic. The number of DRM/Apple apologists on this story is a joke, especially when you consider the reaction of comments on any other DRM story.

      Also you don't have to buy a iPod or any Apple products. There are plenty of equally capable alternatives. If you don't like the product don't buy it.

      I fully agree that people shouldn't buy any Apple products. And how, exactly, do you think that consumers will hear about this limitation, so that they know not to buy it? Maybe, we could have these sites where people write about the products, and then people can read them to find out possible flaws. Maybe we could have an organisation warning people of the problems with this product. Maybe we could discuss the issues on a popular geek website. Just a thought.

    99. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by mdwh2 · · Score: 0

      Just because a workaround exists, doesn't stop it being DRM.

      And you can fix basic functionality by buying an additional product? What happened to the "Just Works" Mantra? More like, it Works, Just About.

    100. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      DRM is not just about preventing copyright infringement (indeed, to believe that is swallowing the pro-DRM FUD). It's about technological means that limit usage of digital media or devices.

    101. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by DECS · · Score: 1

      "No one is claiming that Microsoft are fine and Apple are bad - that's a straw man."

      I see you have trouble following logic. It was the EFF that was screeching that Apple was being evil and nobody would stand for it if Microsoft did the same: "If it were Microsoft demanding that computer peripherals all include Microsoft "authentication chips" in order to work with Windows (or Toyota or Ford doing the same for replacement parts), I'd think reviewers would be screaming about it."

      Comparing Apple against Microsoft, Ford, Toyota is not just stupid, but apeshit retarded FIRST BECAUSE the EFF made Microsoft a poster child for its War on DRM, SECOND because Windows has a monopoly position and therefore has no need for DRM to lock it to PCs and THIRD because Microsoft pushes far more draconian DRM that creates terrible products that nobody wants to buy. Yet his comments suggest that Apple has done something Microsoft does not do.

      Then you come along and start yapping about ad hominems and straw men. What's next, are you going to call me a sock puppet and say in Russia your argument isn't backwards?

      When some ideological zealot with a penchant for getting things wrong files unsubstantiated accusations, it's not the responsibility of the rest of the world to prove them wrong, it's their duty to ignore them until they are substantiated.

    102. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by alienw · · Score: 0, Troll

      Hahhahaha, seriously. Rockbox is the biggest piece of shit I've ever used. Let's see, tons of useless, buggy, poorly-implemented features, a horrible UI, and poor hardware support. Who the hell needs FLAC support on a portable device, anyway? It's good for killing battery life and disk space, and that's about it. Between the terrible UI, countless bugs, and "features" such as reduced battery life, you'd have to be out of your mind to use that POS. I understand how it came about (replacement FW for horrible Archos players), but why would you put it on an iPod?

      Also, I've never had any problems with any of my iPods. When I tried out rockbox, it would hang whenever I tried to generate the database. I promptly wiped it. Maybe the developers should think about fixing some of the bugs before they add more useless crap to the features list.

    103. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by alienw · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The EFF needs to lay off this crap if it wants to retain credibility. This is rather silly. If you want to make iPod-compatible accessories, you can either license the relevant information or buy the chips from Apple, or you can reverse engineer it. If you reverse engineer it, you could potentially get sued due to patent violations. I have no idea how they think the DMCA comes into the picture -- I am thinking they just put it there as a red herring.

      Besides, it's not like Apple is the only company making MP3 players. If you don't like their policies, buy another MP3 player, or make your own. I'm not sure when the EFF became the whiny Ralph Nader-style consumer watchdog, but I'm sure most consumers are quite capable of assessing whether or not they like a given product.

    104. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It was the EFF that was screeching that Apple was being evil and nobody would stand for it if Microsoft did the same: "If it were Microsoft demanding that computer peripherals all include Microsoft "authentication chips" in order to work with Windows (or Toyota or Ford doing the same for replacement parts), I'd think reviewers would be screaming about it."

      Right. Are you disputing this claim? Do you think that MS wouldn't be criticised if they did the same thing? What example of MS DRM do you have, where no one complained about it?

      Comparing Apple against Microsoft, Ford, Toyota is not just stupid, but apeshit retarded FIRST BECAUSE the EFF made Microsoft a poster child for its War on DRM, SECOND because Windows has a monopoly position and therefore has no need for DRM to lock it to PCs and THIRD because Microsoft pushes far more draconian DRM that creates terrible products that nobody wants to buy. Yet his comments suggest that Apple has done something Microsoft does not do.

      No, that's not what he's saying. He's not saying "MS don't do DRM", he's saying "If MS did something like this, they'd be criticised". So pointing out that MS were criticised for doing similar things supports his argument. In order to disprove it, you have to not only show that MS have done what Apple are doing, you also have to show that no one criticised them for doing so. (And you say that I am the one who can't follow logic!)

      Then you come along and start yapping about ad hominems and straw men. What's next, are you going to call me a sock puppet and say in Russia your argument isn't backwards?

      I "came along" (or rather, joined in the discussion that everyone is free to do here) and "yapped" ad hominems and straw men, because you made an ad hominem, and I was referring to a straw man argument. What on earth does sock puppets and Russia have to do with hat?

      Can you actually form an argument without resorting to "OMG it's apeshit retard!" ?

    105. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      Just because a workaround exists, doesn't stop it being DRM.

      Well, saying that this is "DRM", based on what's known at the moment (not based on what's speculated by outlets which stand to benefit from the traffic such a story would bring them), would begin to dilute the term into meaninglessness. One might as well say that a car has "DRM" because you have to buy gas to keep the engine running...

    106. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what he's talking about when he mention the Apple apologists. So, what part of putting a special chip in the headphones to prevent unauthorized devices is not DRM?

    107. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sorry, if he's stupid for trusting what he reads in a blog, then I'm not going to trust this Apple blog either

      Note: "that Apple blog" is written by the same troll who wrote that comment, DECS (Daniel Eran). He's the Ann Coulter of Apple fanboys.

    108. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      If your friend's iTunes music doesn't have DRM, then what is stopping you copying it right out of their iTunes folder and into whatever setup you run? AAC is an open standard. Yes, it has license restrictions, but not anymore so than MP3.

      When it comes to iTunes, Apple seem to only put enough restriction on to encourage people to follow basic copyright law and to not alienate the RIAA, who's cooperation they need if they're to do business with. They compromised. Many people might say that was a bad thing, but others would say it's the best way forward. And if you hadn't noticed, they seem to be getting less restricted in this area now that they've proved on-line stores can be successful.

    109. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      It's a set of headphones for a portable music player. If you don't like Apple's player, there are many others out there.

    110. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by broken_chaos · · Score: 1

      There is still no evidence of the existence of this mythical "chip". Please provide a link to a disassembly discussion that shows the existence of the chip (the one picture of the disassembled headphone assembly I've seen shows no such thing).

    111. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by adolf · · Score: 1

      Ok. Is $8.44, shipped, cheap enough for an iPhone 3G video cable with authentication chip?

      Looky looky.

    112. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by freyyr890 · · Score: 1

      Headphone DRM? Good luck apple. A ten year old can figure out that all they need to do is cut the wires leading to the earpieces and solder them to a 1/8" TRS jack. Pointless security measure defeated.

    113. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Swampash · · Score: 1

      Calling these headphones "DRM'd" is like saying that Firewire is DRMed.

    114. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't start my dad's Toyota Supra with out his Toyota provided key. Oh wait...

      (It's a joke kids.)

      They're just *mp3* players. Not cars. Seriously, I'm as liberal as anyone can get but if you're that really indignant about it, buy another mp3 player.

    115. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      She did request Linux. More specifically she said "I just want to read my mail, chat on Skype, and read the news online. I don't want to worry about updating and viruses and spies and breakins". That sounds like textbook request for Ubuntu right there.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    116. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Pie+Pan · · Score: 1

      The problem though is that if the EFF didn't make a fuss of the small things, then companies such as Apple would realise that they'd be able to get away with eroding our rights in smaller, less "important" bites. I think much the same way of Greenpeace - they make a fuss of anything and everything, but if they didn't, they'd be much less effective at what they do. I usually hate environmentalists, but I respect the fact that Greenpeace gets things done.

    117. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by berend+botje · · Score: 1

      No thanks. I switched to Gnome a few years ago and found that it worked better for me. It is less in my face and lets me do my work.

      I understand other people like to customize everything, that's fine. And I'm sure I would like KDE after it is configured to my preferences. However, I don't have time to (nor do I want to) spend this time.

      To each his own.

    118. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I see it, Apple has a dream. Apple wants to share that dream with the rest of us. That dream is world domination.
       

    119. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it would be closer to if you bought a car and then they told you that you need to buy a special attachment to make it do what you want it to. I can see it now "Oh you want to steer the car? Oh well then you need to buy this special adapter from us so you can connect your steering wheel. But you don't need it you can still start it and just go in the direction its already pointed by pressing the gas pedal." Its not a DRM but I have to buy something special just to have useable access to it then it might as well be considered DRM.

    120. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My dad's ford has a factory stereo that requires a communication module with the truck's computer system. The result is that any off the shelf stereo will not work without an electronic box that acts like the chip that talks to the computer. They run about $100 if you want to install an after market stereo.

      Evidently you are wrong and they do continue to abuse customers.

    121. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like the new President as opposed to the previous President.

    122. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Huh, sounds exactly like DRM to me...

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    123. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to iLounge, even Apple's own previous headphones with remotes built in (for the iPhone and recent Nanos) refuse to control the new shuffle properly. So non-standard that it doesn't even work with your existing products seems pretty unlikely, though I'll happily be proven wrong if someone smashes open the remotes on either set of headphones and finds out what's in there.

      Unlikely, but very possible. Because it lacks a dock connector the new iPod Shuffle can do USB through the headphone jack. No previous iPod or iPhone has done this. I'm not at all surprised it would need a specialized controller chip in the headphones to negotiate all the features it runs through the one extra pin it has in the headphone jack.

    124. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      I know, KDE out of the box needs a lot of customization. Like you say, for some that's a feature and for some that's a bug. Gnome is pretty decent too, I'm not one of these KDE vs Gnome freaks. I'd just like the publicity around KDE 4.0 and 4.1 to die down. They were never meant for end users, I really don't know why most of the major distros forced them on people.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    125. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by DECS · · Score: 1

      OMG- your logic, it's apeshit retard.

      First off, the EFF is wrong, as it has been many times before.

      Second, the premise that Apple is as bad as Microsoft, and therefore worse than Microsoft, is also wrong and delusional.

      Third, your side argument that the EFF has criticized Microsoft in the past, and therefore is correct now in criticizing Apple for "DRM" in headphones (which does not exist), regardless of the facts at hand and ignoring the lapse of logic that the EFF presents, along with the implication that Apple is being worse than Microsoft at preventing competition and innovation... is just breathtakingly devoid of basic reasoning ability.

      You're not really joining a conversation as much as popping up to agree with an argument because it has something bad-sounding about DRM and Apple in it, and calling me names in an effort to sidestep having to actually consider the facts.

      By the way, dismissing an argument by waving the "ad hominem" flag is about the most hypocritical thing one can do on Slashdot.

    126. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by adisakp · · Score: 1

      No, it'd be like buying a European car and then finding out the US standard tools you have won't work on it and that you have to buy metric tools to fix it. Then bitching and moaning that they should make all cars us inches and imperial standard measurements rather than metric measurements. It's a hardware difference. Not a lock-out.

    127. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here for $5:

      androidcentral.com

      Get your facts right. There is no special chip. You can buy or (surprise!) make your own adapter. I own one of these, and they work just fine.

      Posting anonymous since I'm a Google employee.

    128. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by gabebear · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what he's talking about when he mention the Apple apologists.

      What is "exactly what he's talking about"?

      So, what part of putting a special chip in the headphones to prevent unauthorized devices is not DRM?

      The shuffle's control scheme is a stupid-design and vendor-lock-in, but it's not DRM... Lets try some analogies(as much as I hate them. Do you think that Apple implemented DRM in XCode because it wasn't designed to run on Windows(which is the de-facto OS)? Is the btfs kernel driver using DRM because it is only being developed for Linux?

      DRM is ADDED purely to limit the usefulness of a product. DRM is only enforceable with stupid laws. Designs that limit usefulness are not necessarily DRM.

    129. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by iainl · · Score: 1

      Apple's 'right' to manage who and how the controls for the Shuffle are implemented are indeed controlled by this change. Those signals are digital (one presumes - they're all sent down a single cable, and I'm guessing they don't do it with different voltage signals).

      That's DRM.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
    130. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Minwee · · Score: 1

      You can play Doom on pretty much any mp3 player?

      That must be one of those hidden features I never quite found.

    131. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by CompMD · · Score: 1

      "Ford and Toyota all use proprietary parts in their vehicles that can not be swapped out for third party bits from any supplier a user might want to pick from."

      What? You can't encrypt or apply DRM to mechanical parts. Its not possible to hide the design of a hose or a fuel injector.

    132. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When some ideological zealot with a penchant for getting things wrong files unsubstantiated accusations, it's not the responsibility of the rest of the world to prove them wrong, it's their duty to ignore them until they are substantiated.

      Which explains why everyone not in the Apple lunatic fringe echo-chamber ignores you. Glad to see you've finally made that realization.

    133. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      perhaps not a hose, but that's why the example of a computer part was given. And even a coolant hose can be designed to be complex enough to prevent its replacement by a cheap aftermarket version. I've experienced that with radiator hoses that have a special bend and wye that no third party makes a generic version of. Nefarious end of the world plot to cheat consumers, or specialized design to optimize performance? Depends on your level of paranoia.

      That's exactly what happened here. There does not appear to be any real DRM at work in Apple's headphones, just a complex enough design to make alternative knock off versions more expensive. And there is a plausible offset in increased utility.

    134. Re:And DRM in the fucking *headphones*. by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      I *am* a techie, you insensitive clod.

      Got a problem with that? Or are you just jealous, because my brain happens to work better than yours, when it comes to technical things? ;)

      I know that it is called racism (and rightfully so, most of the time) when you insult people because of their race. But it seems to be a-ok, to insult intelligent people, or make them look like something bad. Especially tech people.

      Unfortunately, tech people then usually buy right into that too, and think they really are worse than the average guy who gets all the women.
      I'm sorry my friend. But this time is over. We're not the "Oh, you think you are so much better. Well you're a piece of shit" nerds for you anymore. We *know* that we actually *are* (by definition) so much better (in technical things). So what? You may be better in other things. So what?

      I say, we should get girls, not despite, but because we are techies.

      (Don't you Americans usually say "Who's with me?" in this moments. ;)

      Too bad most girls only want us techies to work with their computer boxes, cell phones, and make other electronic boxes work. If we are lucky we get a a thank you hug or may be dinner. The type of dinner where she stays at least 3 feet away from you the whole time, and the place is one where non of her crowd will be.

      Actually I have found that teaching them (well trying in some cases) to fix/make it work works better. One needs to actually communicate to teach. And she may come back to you so you can teach her other things about some new device or program she wants to use. Now you may not get to go out with or date that girl but other girls will notice you talking to her. The talking to the first girl in teaching her will help you talk to the other girls (if you needed help in that area). Just remember talk in english (or your first language) do not try to explain something in geekese. Geekese only works for other geeks, if she happens to be a female geek then go right ahead. But then, she most likely doesn't need your help in using the electronic device.

  2. I Like It by CrankyFool · · Score: 5, Informative

    I suspect I was one of the first few people on Thursday to pick one up. This Shuffle is my first, complementing my 30GB Video, 60GB Video, and iPhone devices. Basically, I've gotten tired of lugging around the bigger devices while I bike.

    So far, I'm really pleased with it. Hate the headphone arrangement in principle, but I can live with it for now. It's tiny, as noted, and I've already lost it (and found it again) once. I suspect that's the biggest risk to owning a small, black device like that.

    1. Re:I Like It by hey! · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, extrapolating from the trend so far, you'll be losing the next gen shuffle in your ear.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:I Like It by webagogue · · Score: 1

      "Hate the headphone arrangement in principle, but I can live with it for now." That's an interesting way to put it. But if you are really pleased overall, with the exception of the "headphone arrangement" aren't you still pleased? I find that, constantly wanting to change "just one thing" about my computers, ipods, etc., is really just wasted energy. It works. It works well. Why be frustrated with it?

      --

      Knowledge is valuable. Ignorance is dangerous. Censorship is unacceptable. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10
    3. Re:I Like It by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0, Troll

      Congratulations, you just signed up to regular ass-rapings from Apple every time you need some new headphones. I hope you like iTunes too.

      I suppose at least it charges from USB, which is more than my 3rd gen iPod does. Having to take that Firewire charger everywhere is what made me replace it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:I Like It by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Basically, I've gotten tired of lugging around the bigger devices while I bike.

      I really don't understand people like you. If you're mountain biking, it really ruins the experience of riding outside and makes it easy to miss other trail users. If you're biking on the road listening to music, then you're insane since it turns you from vulnerable to cars to vulnerable and unaware.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    5. Re:I Like It by vidarh · · Score: 1

      I'd actually love one that was small enough to be part of one of the earbuds, and I'm sure that's where it'll be heading.

    6. Re:I Like It by kencurry · · Score: 1

      ... then you're insane since it turns you from vulnerable to cars to vulnerable and unaware.

      no, apple earphones are not the in-ear type that block outside noise. you can hear what's going on perfectly well, especially if you don't have the sound up too loud.

      --
      sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
    7. Re:I Like It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You bought your Shuffle two days too late. The previous generation would have been perfect for you.

    8. Re:I Like It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If by "what's going on" you mean "anyone honking at me", then, yes. For anything more subtle, no.

    9. Re:I Like It by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Seriously no. If you are listening to headphones, then you will not be able to hear quieter sounds. This means that you get less warning since cars will have to be closer before you hear them. It also means you will be unlikely to hear other cyclists behind you. With the lack of mirrors, sound is the only way of telling what's going on around you on a bike. Reducing such a vital sense is IMO blind insanity.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    10. Re:I Like It by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      I believe I saw a previous generation Shuffle for about $25 at Best Buy yesterday.

    11. Re:I Like It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      . . .then you're insane since it turns you from vulnerable to cars to vulnerable and unaware.

      You don't have to listen to music with both of the earbuds in your ears. Or do you refuse to listen to the radio while you're in your car also?

    12. Re:I Like It by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Did I read that right? You own three iPods and an iPhone? How can you look at yourself in the mirror?

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    13. Re:I Like It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahhh, one of those smart people that bikes while listened to MP3 players. Thanks for giving the rest of us bikers a bad name.

  3. One of the articles wondered what's next... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Here it is: iSophagus

    http://store.sluggy.com/detailed-isoph.html

    1. Re:One of the articles wondered what's next... by Bazman · · Score: 1

      Perfect for connecting to iTunes via your MacTini:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGGOn-H7s3Q

    2. Re:One of the articles wondered what's next... by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      This video is not available in your country. Stupid youtube.

  4. Headphones by Ganty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The inability to use your own headphones is a big problem, in fact this makes the new shuffle unusable for me as I can't use earbuds.

    Ganty

    1. Re:Headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      So its a $15 4gig memory stick with a $5 audio/mp3player chip, sold for $79.

      Come on Apple, make all ipods/iphones min 32gig with 64/128gig options, and make all shuffles 8gig min.

      How about real innovation, like a shuffle thats bluetooth capable. WIRES SUCK!!

      Btw, I suggested the voice speaking mp3s a year ago, its a no brainer over lunch idea. Good thing any and all mp3 players could implement this, unless it has a stupid patent on it.

      We know you can, yes YOU can.

    2. Re:Headphones by mlts · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not sure who Apple is catering to by forcing people to either wait for third parties to license the earbud chip, or use the "one size fits some" earbuds that are included.

      Children who are given this as their first MP3 player might not be able to use the earbuds.

      People who want an inexpensive iPod for jogging or campus won't be able to use these earbuds, because earbuds tend to fall out.

      Which leaves people who are just buying a really low end iPod for financial reasons. If someone wants a generic MP3 player, choices abound in this market segment. Apple has competition here, as opposed to the other models which the choices thin out dramatically, especially the high capacity iPod Classic.

      This is a head scratcher, because Apple tends to know better than this. Maybe they will make an adapter with the volume controls and button for $29 or so, so people can use their own cans.

      UI-wise, features seem to have been lost. Say I have a long DJ mix with no breaks in it. From what I've seen, I can't fast forward or rewind in a song, its either go to the beginning or skip, with no in between.

      All and all, I am disappointed. Yes, this is their low-end product, but there are some definite features that some people use everyday that are missing. At least the 2G Shuffle is still for sale. If I had to buy a Shuffle, I'd buy the 2G which has half the capacity, but allows me to do basic music navigation actions with a single button press as opposed to multiple triple-clicks.

    3. Re:Headphones by pizzach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is a head scratcher, because Apple tends to know better than this. Maybe they will make an adapter with the volume controls and button for $29 or so, so people can use their own cans.

      Which is likely why Apple is still offering the old iPod Shuffle at least until 3rd party headphones start coming out. If things truly go awful, they can always back track too. :-p

      http://store.apple.com/us/tab?node=home/shop_ipod/family/ipod_shuffle&tcid=tg_tabcontroller&tab=1

      --
      Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
    4. Re:Headphones by laurens · · Score: 3, Funny

      You can fast forward and rewind, although you need to read the manual for that ;-)

      Double-click-and-hold and triple-click-and-hold, respectively.

    5. Re:Headphones by pizzach · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just a note because I don't think I was clear enough about the link. Scroll down and notice that apple is selling both versions of the iPod shuffle. Even more intriguing, they are filling different pricing brackets. $50 vs $80 which sounds very similar to the original iPod Shuffle pricing. The people who want the cheapest iPod would still be going for the earlier revision so the headphone argument is mostly moot for those people anyway.

      --
      Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
    6. Re:Headphones by tsa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For $29 you can get an MP3 player with a screen and no ridiculous headphones.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    7. Re:Headphones by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's called "lockin".

      You kill the third-party market by designing your hardware in such a way that people can only buy the OEM's product. It used to be common practice in the computer industry, until the mid-90s when generic PCs took over. However Apple has clung to that paradigm right up to the present day.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    8. Re:Headphones by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It will probably be about a week before some taiwanese company is selling a reverse-engineered inline headphone pigtail with buttons. You can control the volume by using headphones with a volume control. Why would you buy a mp3 player the size of a suppository anyway? There is such a thing as it being too small. But I guess there's a market, or they would never have made the thing. Personally I got a phone which is an mp3 player and requires special headphones (RAZR V3i) and it has not been a serious impediment for me - you can buy an adapter pigtail.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:Headphones by fmobus · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Apple should implement stereo bluetooth, just like they did with the iPhone. No, wait, they didn't.

    10. Re:Headphones by 68kmac · · Score: 1

      You kill the third-party market

      Several third parties have already announced headphones compatible with the new iPod Shuffle. Sounds more like stimulation of the third-party market to me.

      There are a lot of third-party accessories for the iPod out there. If anything, this is killing the third-party market for competing players, since they don't sell nearly as much of them and so it's not profitable for the makers of cases etc.

    11. Re:Headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      id venture you can slice the headphones after the remote control on the apple headphones, and connect a 3.5mm jack or something, and sleeve it up real nice ish. but it's still a mess. at any rate, there's an unnecessary join between 2 cables if they release an adapter for regular headphones which kinda goes against the shuffle exercise use, etc. so it kinda sucks.

      Luckily i have my sansa.

    12. Re:Headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's the same size as the shuffle? It supports AAC? It has just as much memory? Please link us to this MP3 player.

      And no, "here, it's $45 and 50% bigger than the shuffle" doesn't count.

    13. Re:Headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that computers won't recognize it as a mass storage device unless you have itunes installed, so even then it's pretty useless as a memory stick.

    14. Re:Headphones by commodore64_love · · Score: 0

      I knew you (or someone) would say that, but in the meantime Apple Shuffle earbuds have a lock on that market. It might only be a brief monopoly, but it's still a monopoly and very profitable as people upgrade.

      And even after third-party earbuds/headphones become available, who knows if they will work? I have some "Ipod speakers" made by radio shack that don't work half the time due to Apple's closed system. If I had bought Apple speakers, I would not have that problem.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    15. Re:Headphones by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      Are you assuming that the size of the shuffle-of-the-year is the best size by definition? Apple has been flip-flopping between tall and wide shuffle's - it doesn't suggest optimal design but rather the desire to look different than the last model.

    16. Re:Headphones by broken_chaos · · Score: 1

      ...uh, the brief monopoly on the earphones that ship with the device?

      How fast do you go through earphones?

    17. Re:Headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you cut the audio cables and solder on your own headphone jack. You can keep complaining to deaf ears or sort things out yourself.

    18. Re:Headphones by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      I'd like to take the opportunity to point to Samsung's MP3 players. For anything between $35 and $80, they have players which support the unemcumbered and patent free OGG format. No affiliation but just a loyal customer.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    19. Re:Headphones by FooGoo · · Score: 1

      Luckily you have the ability to not purchase it.

      --
      People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
    20. Re:Headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I remember the lockin in the eighties.

      Also a lot of breakin' and body poppin'.

    21. Re:Headphones by dangitman · · Score: 1

      However Apple has clung to that paradigm right up to the present day.

      Uhh, no. Apple loves the third-party iPod market. They make a fortune from licensing, and don't have to develop the products themselves. Seriously, where have you been? Did you completely miss the whole dock-connector phenomenon?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    22. Re:Headphones by SpecBear · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why would you buy a mp3 player the size of a suppository anyway?

      I can only think of one reason. And I sorely wish I could unthink it.

    23. Re:Headphones by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      Same here. Can't use standard earphones, since my ears are unusual and don't hold these things in.

    24. Re:Headphones by johnny+cashed · · Score: 1

      This is a head scratcher, because Apple tends to know better than this.

      Until they forget and think it is a good idea again. ADC comes to mind.

    25. Re:Headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As opposed to the Commodore 64, which used entirely open peripherals and only ever farted sunshine and rainbows.

      Jesus H, hang it up with the anti-Apple rhetoric. You sound like you got the single high speed conspiracy outrage of FOX/AM radio.

    26. Re:Headphones by toddestan · · Score: 1

      And no, "here, it's $45 and 50% bigger than the shuffle" doesn't count.

      You do realize that the only reason the Shuffle is so small is because they stripped every possible feature out of it? Screens and buttons do take up space, you know.

    27. Re:Headphones by pandafs2 · · Score: 1

      Just take apples original headphones, headphones you like and soldering iron. We've made this to Motorola's handsfree for years.

    28. Re:Headphones by guruevi · · Score: 1

      You mean like those cheap MP4 players you get at JCPenney (Craig or whatever brand they are). I have a couple (5) of those since people got them as a gift and don't know what to do with them. They are 1) ugly 2) unusable (interface) and 3) low quality (music is metallic, screen is 320x240 and video output is 160x120). The only thing they're good for is storing 512MB of data.

      Like the one in this review? http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/funny-british-review-of-some-mp4-player-196544.php

      There is a reason Apple is so successful in the market and it's not because it's the iEl-Cheapo from the Abble cult, it's because they do what they need to do better than the others. I overheard quite some sales nerds at several stores while I was waiting in line (especially during the holiday season). Even the Zune (which is price-wise and sound-quality wise on par with the iPod) is being steered away from by them just because and I quote "almost nobody returns an iPod after the holidays but we got quite some customers come trade in their Zune for either an iPod or cash because they didn't like how it worked".

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    29. Re:Headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The sensible thing to do would be for them to add the control section on a short cord which ends in a standard headphone socket which you plug whatever headphones you like into.

      This is what other manufacturers have been doing for a long time, for apple not to do this is indeed a clear case of Vendor Lock-in and people should stop pretending there is nothing wrong with it just because it's apple that is doing it.

  5. Rockbox by bcmm · · Score: 5, Informative

    I am surprised, with Apple constantly spouting "The first music player that talks to you", that no one has yet mentioned Rockbox's voice capabilities.

    It has existed for some time, and even supports it on some very cheap hardware, by calculating and storing the speech synth on a PC while the player is plugged in.

    So, Apple has, in fact, been fighting to keep speech synth off the iPod for years.

    --
    # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
    Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    1. Re:Rockbox by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But that's not really a music player -- It's software that you can install on a music player. Apple is not fighting to keep it off the iPod, they just don't care about supporting it. Big difference. And why are you surprised? Apple isn't a bad company IMHO, but they're not there to be everyone's best friend, either.

    2. Re:Rockbox by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Informative

      Apple is not fighting to keep it off the iPod, they just don't care about supporting it.

      The establishment of encrypted firmware with the iPod Touch and iPod Classic was an intentional move towards preventing third-party firmware installations like Rockbox. Apple made an effort to ensure you can't install it, so the issue is a lot more than a neutral "lack of support".

    3. Re:Rockbox by kestasjk · · Score: 2, Informative

      It has existed for some time, and even supports it on some very cheap hardware, by calculating and storing the speech synth on a PC while the player is plugged in.

      The shuffle also works that way; it sounds different on Windows than on OS X.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    4. Re:Rockbox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am surprised, with Apple constantly spouting "The first music player that talks to you", that no one has yet mentioned Rockbox [rockbox.org]'s voice capabilities.

      Rockbox is a firmware not a player. That's like claiming a game is DX10 based just because DX10 exists.

      So, Apple has, in fact, been fighting to keep speech synth off the iPod for years.

      Yes, in a parallel universe maybe. iPod Nano 2008 was the first player supporting spoken menus.

    5. Re:Rockbox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe it was a test to see how they could do things with the jesus phone?

    6. Re:Rockbox by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'll admit that they are biased towards not wanting such things, but I doubt they were targeting Rockbox specifically. My impression was that you can still install your own firmware if you wanted, even if you can no longer simply modify Apple's. I think Apple does it because it solves a lot of support issues for them and they care about that more than keeping OSS advocates happy. Otherwise, I don't see much evidence that they would care that much about hacking. I think it would be nice if they were more open, but no one's perfect, and in the way they've used IP laws, they seem to be a lot more reasonable compared to other companies, and therefore I don't have a such a problem with it.

    7. Re:Rockbox by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even so, people do buy mp3 players JUST to install Rockbox on them. They fall into two categories:

      1. People like you and me who read /. all day.

      2. People with physical impairments.

      Check out the rockbox mailing lists sometime. You'll be amazed at the number of posters looking for help who have almost no technical expertise at all. Somebody brings a rockbox to a school for the blind or whatever and suddenly 50 people want one - because there is almost no market for this sort of thing. I'd suggest creating a company to pre-install Rockbox on a suitable player, but I'm guessing when making devices for the blind there are 500 regulations to comply with (which don't apply if you just make some firmware and toss it on a website without specifically advertising it to blind people).

      Look, Rockbox isn't the nicest packaged piece of software out there. However, in terms of feature set you're not going to find anything commercial that comes close. If somebody comes out with a Rockbox-based player for my android phone I'd use it without hesitation (my rockbox-based player just went through the dryer and is no more).

    8. Re:Rockbox by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      My car radio and my home stereo also have this "talking to announce song title and singer name" feature. It's called "the DJ" although some of the older stations call this feature "the MC". ;-)

      "Ha! I kill me." - Alf

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    9. Re:Rockbox by Firehed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it's much more likely that they don't want someone ripping off their iPod OS for their own $39 Chinese knock-off device. Nor do they want people to be easily able to reverse-engineer the app store protocols and hack the thing for their own profits. That it broke third-party replacement firmwares was probably more of a happy (for them) coincidence.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    10. Re:Rockbox by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      And I'll be sure to make a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority if they ever try to claim it's the first taking music player here in the UK too.

      It's not just Rockbox, I have an old Chinese no-brand thing that can do it too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:Rockbox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I installed Rockbox on a Nano when the last version came out. I'm a geek, but I'm not a masochist - using that interface was so much worse than the standard firmware that I could only stand it for a day. I guess if you want to play audiophile you could wank with the eq, but really I have better things to do. I like that it's out there, but unless you need the voice features or something I can't imagine choosing it.

    12. Re:Rockbox by maeka · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think it's much more likely that they don't want someone ripping off their iPod OS for their own $39 Chinese knock-off device. Nor do they want people to be easily able to reverse-engineer the app store protocols and hack the thing for their own profits

      You are ignoring the difference between encrypting your firmware and using a bootloader which only loads encrypted code.
      They could have easily done the first and not done the second.

    13. Re:Rockbox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't the RockBox guys sue Apple for defamation and clain damages? That would be funny.

    14. Re:Rockbox by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      >>they're not there to be everyone's best friend
      Well, that is not the image they are trying to promote.

    15. Re:Rockbox by alienw · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yeah, they really care about Rockbox. That's why they encrypted the firmware. Right. It has nothing to do with people trying to crack Fairplay, pirate iPhone applications, and hack/clone/jailbreak the iPhone. Seriously, dude. There are about a million reasons why Apple would want to protect its products from hacking, and I seriously doubt Rockbox is anywhere on that list. Seriously, the DIY Altoids-can MP3 players are more of a competitive threat to apple than Rockbox.

    16. Re:Rockbox by djrobxx · · Score: 1

      The Phatnoise Phatbox car MP3 system used voice for navigation and track titles also. Voice was used because it integrated with factory CD car changer systems that often don't have the ability to show text. Worked very well. Was nice to navigate without taking my eyes off the road.

    17. Re:Rockbox by bcmm · · Score: 1

      To phrase your argument differently, the iPod's OS is not a player either, while an MP3 player with RockBox on it is a player. And RockBox supports voice for both track names and menus.

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
  6. Its like miracle ! by should_be_linear · · Score: 5, Funny

    I always thought how big and clumsy my Shuffle is, thank god they finally addressed this issue !

    --
    839*929
    1. Re:Its like miracle ! by Huge_UID · · Score: 1

      No wires? Look at arriva.com or monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=4449.

    2. Re:Its like miracle ! by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      So far I'm not aware of any good solution to that problem.

      Bluetooth. Sure, the battery life might be reduced, but it takes care of the wires.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:Its like miracle ! by GizmoToy · · Score: 1

      Oakley makes a couple pairs of sunglasses with built-in headsets that are similar to what you want. One model has a built-in MP3 player, and the other is a stereo Bluetooth receiver. You'd need a Bluetooth adapter to use the latter with an iPod (probably a Nano, I doubt one exists for the Shuffle). The former only has up to 1GB of storage. And they're not cheap. You would be rid of the wires, though, if that's your main concern.

  7. Curious by MedeaMelana · · Score: 1

    I find it strange that Apple has moved away from a voice-based interface with their "visual voicemail" GUI on the iPhone (for a very good reason!) and now with the new iPod shuffle has moved back to one.

    1. Re:Curious by Bertie · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, it's almost like the Shuffle doesn't have a screen or something.

      Oh.

  8. Headphone controls ... wtf? by SandyT · · Score: 1

    I use my (fake) ipod shuffle for running quite a lot, and its passable. For some time now I have been considering getting a new one, but I really really dislike the apple headphones. So I'm going to have to get a previous generation one ... :-(

    1. Re:Headphone controls ... wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear this a lot. Sure, the standard headphones have been bad, but I hear that the new ones are a lot better.
      One thing I don't understand is people listening to music while running: such people are not serious about your music or about running... so I think their complaints are, in general, void.

    2. Re:Headphone controls ... wtf? by highvista63 · · Score: 1

      So would you also say someone who listens to music in a car isn't serious about music? Can I only listen to music in an acoustically-perfect environment to be serious about it? Interesting viewpoint.

    3. Re:Headphone controls ... wtf? by vidarh · · Score: 1
      Some of us are "just" running for the health benefits. I have no interest in being "serious" about running, nor do I have an interest in being "serious" about my music. I listen because I enjoy it, and because it reduces the boredom of running (yes, I get bored - immensely bored). And I also hate the Apple headphones - their effect is too low and the sound quality is horrendous, and they fit badly. The first and the last of those two are most important to me when running. I don't want them falling out, and I do want to hear the music over background noise.

      If I had to use Apple headphones to use an iPod, I wouldn't be using an iPod. It's that simple.

  9. OH CANT U??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just try plug it in and wait 3 seconds.

  10. Why not a small screen? by cyberjessy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Though voice is more accessible and helps blind people, for the vast majority of non-blind users it is simply very inconvenient.

    Many years back, I got a shuffle when I wanted a tiny MP3 player. It drove me nuts, and I bought a Sansa; same size, but comes with a screen and some useful features.

    Just about every tiny MP3 player has a screen these days, but Apple is probably having the NIH syndrome.

    --
    Life is just a conviction.
    1. Re:Why not a small screen? by the_one(2) · · Score: 1

      Though voice is more accessible and helps blind people, for the vast majority of non-blind users it is simply very inconvenient.

      Yeah! And what about the deaf people? They won't be able to hea... oh, wait

    2. Re:Why not a small screen? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      The shuffle is your own portable radio station. The typical use is to have it dump a selection of your favorite songs from iTunes into the player every time you sit at your desk, so you have a constantly-changing bunch of music. You can skip tracks if you want to, but the interface is too primitive to want to do more. That's fine; if you want a screen, pay for it and buy a Nano instead of a shuffle, and stop complaining about things that aren't problems. If you want to harsh on Apple, why not harsh on the lengths they will go to in order to attempt to prevent you from installing your own firmware on an iPod.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Why not a small screen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just like almost every other mp3 player is a portable radio station. mine has this fancy feature called 'shuffle' as well.

    4. Re:Why not a small screen? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      [Almost] every other mp3 player is also a portable jukebox, many are also a portable recording studio (albeit a poor one) and some are also even radio receivers. Hell, some will record radio to a file, so they're a personal audio recorder as well. The difference is that the shuffle does one thing, arguably does it well (I don't want one, so I don't care if there is something better) and does it with style which means people want it. There is something to be said for converging devices, it's what I've done and I have a small phone that plays mp3s tolerably well, equipped with a MicroSD slot. Some people only want to carry the smallest wisp of hardware when they (for example) go out jogging, which is a niche [theoretically] ideally-filled by the new Shuffle because it is teensy tiny and has lots of battery life and might be expected to survive the experience on a repeated basis.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  11. big deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't know why anyone is impressed by this at all, even though I'm a mac fan, this new shuffle is lame and isn't all that innovative. If you are going to make it that small, it's dumb to have a long cord dangling, why don't you build the ipod right into the headphones, that would be innovative, and illiminate the annoying need for chord tangles.

    1. Re:big deal by vidarh · · Score: 1

      I sort of agree, but for that to work they'd have to actually produce decent headphones first. The Apple headphones are the only ones I've used that I've managed to get to literally fall apart, and they fit me badly, and don't isolate outside noise well enough.

  12. Keyring? by cliath · · Score: 1

    Does it have a way to attach it to my keyring? I'd lose it otherwise.

    1. Re:Keyring? by DreadfulGrape · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I would lose the damn thing within one week.

      --
      sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
    2. Re:Keyring? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you can buy iKeyRing. Only 25$ dollars

  13. Screen costs money and take up case space. by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

    Because putting in a screen costs money, and occupies case space. Voice is free - the feature is entirely software.

    From the blurb, the voice differs depending on which OS you use, so odds-on the voice synth is done on the computer and the output is stored on the device, so they didn't even need to optimize their voice synth to run on the Shuffle.

    1. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Screens don't cost that much. This player has an OLED screen, FM radio, microphone, and 15h battery life. Small like a shuffle for about the same price. No AAC support or PC-rendered voiceover, though.

    2. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by gbarules2999 · · Score: 4, Informative

      For $80, I can get the iPod shuffle with no screen, or a comparably sized Sansa Clip with a small screen, FM Tuner, voice recorder, OGG/FLAC support, and compatibility with every OS. The Sansa Clip also happens to be on sale at the Sansa store; it's only $60. So, where's that "screen costs too much," charge Sansa should be forcing on me, then?

    3. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by ukyoCE · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are you joking? You're comparing a 2.3 cubic inch device with a clunky 1-word "screen" to a 0.3 cubic inch device with a no-eyes-required audio interface.

      The Sansa Clip is almost 8 times bigger than the Shuffle. And that screen? That's a "feature"? The Sansa has 7 buttons plus some kind of radial ipod-ripoff pad. You want to be squinting at that screen pressing those buttons while jogging down the sidewalk?

      It's certainly a valid question to ask whether the Shuffle's size and interface are worth $20 to you, over having a clunky device with a bad interface. But you're pretending the Sansa Clip is "more features for less dollars". It certainly is not, unless you start with the assumption that size and interface are worthless.

      I don't personally have a need for a tiny jogging-targeted music player, but that's no reason to get on a high horse and act all indignant because Apple is making one. You may as well be saying HURRR TRUCKS ARE DUMB CAUSE SEDANS GET BETTER GAS MILEAGE AND ARE CHEAPER. Yeah, if you don't care about the extra features of a truck, don't get one. Duh.

    4. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      And I'm pretty sure that Apple's profit is much higher than Sansa's.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    5. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It only has to be small enough. Microscopic is not a requirement. And the clip part of the Clip makes it pretty dam useful for jogging or whatever.

      The interface is also way better than you give it credit for. The screen has 4 lines on it. Good for finding songs, as opposed to just waiting randomly for your song to come up.

      And I like buttons. Its nice to be able to figure out how to turn the thing off. That's why I never bought another ipod after my wife's Mini.

    6. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      . Small like a shuffle for about the same price.

      Bigger than the old Shuffle is more like it.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    7. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by sdhoigt · · Score: 1

      My sentiments exactly.

      I seriously don't understand the Apple fanboyism on this one (or 90% of the time in general).

      I picked up a Sansa c250 for $25 last year and added a memory card $15 for a total of 6 GB. $40 total.

      I put Rockbox on it (which if freaking awesome!) and the current iPod shuffle would be a seriously huge downgrade for twice the price.

      Vote w/your pocketbook. Oh, and apparently Sansa actually has given their devices to the Rockbox devs in the past specifically so the Rockbox team can get Rockbox working on the Sansa devices.

      SD

    8. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      And the clip part of the Clip makes it pretty dam useful for jogging or whatever.

      The interface is also way better than you give it credit for. The screen has 4 lines on it. Good for finding songs, as opposed to just waiting randomly for your song to come up.

      So what good are the 4 tiny lines while jogging?

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    9. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are you joking? You're comparing a 2.3 cubic inch device with a clunky 1-word "screen" to a 0.3 cubic inch device with a no-eyes-required audio interface.

      Yes, he is. At some point there are diminishing returns regarding size.

      over having a clunky device with a bad interface

      You concluded that from, what, the fact that it's not an iPod? The Sansa clip actually has a pretty decent UI, as does the rest of the Sansa line. And you can load it without needing special software - it's a freaking mass storage device.

      It certainly is not, unless you start with the assumption that size and interface are worthless.

      Yes, it certainly is. It has more features (screen, FM radio, voice recording) for less dollars. It's not an evaluation of the quality of the Sansa or the iPod, it's just a fact.

      I don't personally have a need for a tiny jogging-targeted music player

      Apparently neither do any of the people buying the new Shuffle, because (according to Gizmodo) the tiny little headphone-cord cables are extremely tricky to use when jogging because they are too close to your head and too small (which makes them difficult to manipulate when you're bouncing around.

      Look, I like the previous-gen Shuffle's design (I own one). But there's a point when things get absurd. Requiring proprietary headphones means I can't use it in my car and I can't use it with my Shure e2g canalphones. There will probably be a $30 adapter at some point, but then we're talking about a $110 music player, which is getting into iPod Nano territory.

    10. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by ClosedSource · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Because putting in a screen costs money"

      So Apple passes-on those savings to customers .. oh wait.

    11. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    12. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by maxume · · Score: 1

      Yes. The new shuffle may be fantastic, but I am never going to find out, as I can't bring myself to care much about the difference between tiny and tinier, and buttons only on the headphones doesn't strike me as a good thing.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    13. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by Lost+Engineer · · Score: 1

      Better than no lines when you're stopped at an intersection?

    14. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Unless, you have a interface that works without - but you don't want that.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    15. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by Lost+Engineer · · Score: 1

      No not really. I got a 1G shuffle as a gift, and it it's pretty good for running. I want an upgraded 1G shuffle with more storage and a small screen for when I need it. I'll never get it from Apple, but that's ok on my end.

    16. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by alienw · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      OK, I'll bite. I actually got a Sansa c250 for $15 on clearance somewhere. Sure, the features sound great on paper, but it's pretty much the biggest piece of shit I've ever used. After using it, I can definitely understand how Apple has 75% of the MP3 player market. Let's see:
      - the user interface is awful. A retarded 5-year-old could design a better interface. It's slow, buggy, confusing, featureless, and incredibly ugly. Buttons will randomly get pushed in your pocket, causing bad things to happen.
      - the hardware sucks. It's large, chintzy, and really cheap-feeling.
      - you pretty much have to look at the display to use it. Great if you are sitting at a desk. Not so great if you are say, running, or snowboarding, or whatever.
      - the firmware sucks. The battery indicator doesn't work properly. The MP3 decoding sucks. ID3 tags do not get properly displayed. It takes 5 minutes to rebuild the database every time you plug it in the USB port to charge.
      - the much-hyped FM tuner barely has any reception. If you walk around the room, you'll probably lose reception a few times.

      Even with all of the iPod shuffle's shortcomings, there just isn't a price point at which the Sansa wins. I pretty much just threw the thing in the trash after playing with it for a couple of hours. If you paid the original price for it, you got seriously ripped off.

    17. Re:Screen costs money and take up case space. by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      Bigger than the old Shuffle is more like it.

      Am I the only one who doesn't want something smaller than the old shuffle?

      --
      Read Pynchon.
  14. Oh Joy... by drew · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As if iTunes wasn't already bloated enough...

    The first time you sync one of the new iPod Shuffles with iTunes, Apple will install software on your Mac or PC that makes the voice feature possible.

    I'd be curious to see how accurate that statement actually is. "Apple Mobile Device Support", which as far as I can tell is only needed for iPhone or iPod Touch, is installed automatically with iTunes. Sure enough, I just checked in Apple Software Update, and the new version "Supports syncing with iPod shuffle (3rd generation)." If Apple insists on installing half a dozen other unrelated or semi-related software packages with iTunes, it would be nice if they would provide an interface to only install (or update) the ones that you actually want. At the very least, I'd appreciate it if the iTunes installer would recognize when certain components aren't installed so I wouldn't have to uninstall Bonjour every single time I upgrade. (Why anyone ever thought it would be a good idea for system level network autoconfiguration and application level sharing to be handled by the same program in the first place is beyond me. The only thing I find more baffling is that anyone else in the world thought it would be a good idea to follow their example. avahi, I'm looking at you...)

    --
    If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
    1. Re:Oh Joy... by ickoonite · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not sure about on Windows, but on the Mac, it doesn't install the VoiceOver Kit unless you have one of the new Shuffles. I was a bit disappointed by this, as I would quite like my Mac to be able to speak something other than English.

  15. My Sansa by B1oodAnge1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Man I love my 25 dollar, 2 gig Sansa with a 4 gig microSD card.

    I've had speech functionality since I installed Rockbox in January of '07.
    Plus, I can play doom and gameboy ROMs in class.

    Did I mention I got it brand new for 25 bucks?

    Jus' sayin'...

    --
    RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
    1. Re:My Sansa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I double dare you to abuse your Sansa the way I abuse my Shuffle at the gym.

    2. Re:My Sansa by B1oodAnge1 · · Score: 1

      Well, it spent all summer in the pocket of my carharts with nails, screws, and nail sets.

      I think that beats the gym...

      --
      RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
    3. Re:My Sansa by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      I looked up Sansa and they are promoting Slotmusic - you buy a 1GB microSD card with 320kbps MP3 files on it. No DRM at all. They even come with a USB adapter so you can copy the files onto a PC. All for $15 per album.

      http://www.slotmusic.org/

      Actually judging by the number of albums they have and the fact I'd never heard of it, it looks like it will flop badly. Shame really, it's actually exactly what people that dislike DRM should want in a format, except you have to pay for it.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    4. Re:My Sansa by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Which model do you have? Sounds like you have the one that doesn't suck, and I want to see if I can find the same one used.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:My Sansa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you go for the "e" series, make sure you avoid the v2 models, they don't work with Rockbox yet.

    6. Re:My Sansa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, my iPod is more pleasing to the eyes.

    7. Re:My Sansa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, my iPod is more pleasing to the eyes.

      I thought the point of an mp3 player was to be pleasing to the ears.

    8. Re:My Sansa by B1oodAnge1 · · Score: 1

      I *think* I've got an e280, I can't remember for sure and it's worn off the back.

      Got it on Woot.com

      --
      RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
    9. Re:My Sansa by poity · · Score: 1

      sexually? Done.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    10. Re:My Sansa by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      I have the ability to listen to music on mine.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  16. You can't use it with normal amplifiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can't play it through normal amplifiers without losing the ability to change tracks.

    You can't plug it into a cars MP3 port, you can't plug it into previous iPod docks.

    This is useless without its headphones, you're stuck with those crappy Apple ones.

    1. Re:You can't use it with normal amplifiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MOD THIS UP. Please, somebody. The new Shuffle is defective by design.

    2. Re:You can't use it with normal amplifiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cars don't have "MP3 ports" and the iPod shuffle has never had a Dock Connector. It comes free with headphones with controls on them, and if you want to play music through your car, you either get an iPod designed for that, or you buy the little control dongle and plug it in via the headphone jack.

      You are simply ignorant and uninformed.

    3. Re:You can't use it with normal amplifiers by EricX2 · · Score: 1

      MP3 port = AUX Input
      This = Dock Connector

      Ignorant and uninformed? Hmm...

    4. Re:You can't use it with normal amplifiers by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      I think you're quite right to highlight this, because it emphasises the fact that really the problem here is that this is a poorly designed music player. Whether Apple is evil or not, they are being stupid in this instance by moving away from interoperability and easily replaceable parts.

      When their customers are on safari in northern Botswana or hiking through South America and the Apple-supplied headphones die, the whole MP3 player will become useless, because standard headphones (which will be readily available in such places) won't work, and Apple ones won't be available. I think Apple has already demonstrated that its attitude with the Shuffle is fairly anti-convenience by removing the ability to charge it without a special Apple cable.

      I once had a Sony (boo! hiss!) tape walkman which had a proprietary controller on the headphone cable. Amazingly, if I wanted to plug in a different set of headphones - even one not made by Sony - I could, I just had to use the buttons on the player rather than on the cable. In other words, it was a convenience, not a hindrance. You could even use similar but not identical headphones from other Sony players if you had them handy, but if not normal headphones worked well.

      Instead of bitching about how Apple is trying to "control" your life or music listening in some way, how about this: don't buy any more ipod shuffles, and make sure you educate your friends, family and acquaintances about why they shouldn't either. Tell them to get one of the myriad other micro-MP3 players, or maybe something which has actual decent sound quality like a Creative Zen X-Fi.

      --
      Read Pynchon.
  17. Teardown by joelholdsworth · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...and already someones pulled it to bits

    1. Re:Teardown by metaforest · · Score: 1

      Reading the parent's link --> [ifixit.com]

      Interestingly there is a picture of the guts of the ear bud/interface....

      Looks to me that the ear bud cable has NO logic components on it at all. It appears that it simply shorts the lines that aren't used for audio, to ground and power on the USB portion of the connector to signal the user input maybe through resistors.

      Big deal. It is certainly NOT DRM.... barely qualifies as LOCK-IN.

      Looks like Apple just chose a slightly clever way to provide a UI, that just happens to make using standard cans less useful than the custom jobbies that ship with it. I expect we'll 3rd party solutions to this issue in a few weeks.

      Nothing to see here. Move along.

  18. Re:Shiny and tiny! by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

    If you really care about music you'll take your ipod whatever back to the store and smash it to bits on the counter with your shoe.

    Apple will probably not mind if you buy as many $79 iPods for $79 and smash them to bits on the counter, as long as you clean up the mess behind you and as long as your credit card is Ok.It's all revenue and therefore profit.

  19. New marketing strategy by Mendenhall · · Score: 3, Funny

    OK, this is an interesting new marketing strategy for a company as a way to remove a product from their line. You don't ever have to stop selling it. You just keep halving its size until no one is sure whether they have bought one or not.

    With some good access to the RDF, everyone will continue to hear music, whether or not there was actually a device in the box.

    I still own a first generation Shuffle. I think it weighs 50 grams. Really, that's just to much to bear, carrying it in my briefcase. I know that if my briefcase only had a 10.7 gram Shuffle in it, it would be MUCH easier on my walk to work.

  20. Talking Moose by poena.dare · · Score: 1

    Hey it just a matter of time before someone figures out how to hack it and we can intall the Talking Moose on the iPod Shuffle.

    "The more you jog over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."

    It'll be like 1990 all over again!

  21. The Voice function is innovative by beetle496 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The speech output option of Rockbox lets you navigate menus and track names and such, but is does not let you hear the title of the track while the song is playing. That aspect is pretty slick!

    --
    I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
    1. Re:The Voice function is innovative by Aranwe+Haldaloke · · Score: 5, Funny

      Most music already has this feature. You just gotta wait for it, and you'll even listen to it in the singer's own voice.

    2. Re:The Voice function is innovative by beetle496 · · Score: 3, Funny

      LOL! I really had to think about it for a minute to figure out how you could make such an outrageous claim.

      --
      I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
  22. Re:Shiny and tiny! by berend+botje · · Score: 1

    The first ipod shuffle was priced higher than it's competition, was one of the few players without a display at the time, had mediocre sound quality and was locked-in to all hell to itunes.

    The first iPod Shuffle looked way better than the generic boxes the competition was pushing. Most people that want a small mp3-player for use during sports or commutes listen to music with the device in their pockets, so not having a screen isn't all that important. Integration with iTunes just works, for normal people. Yes, for us nerds it might be better to copy files from the commandline. Regular folks just want to plug it in and having it sync all by itself.

    It just wasn't really any good.

    It was so much better than the competition that it isn't funny anymore.

    Stop comparing technical ticklist features. Compare ease-of-use for casual users. You'll see why Apple sells so well.

  23. morse code controls by nloop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I appreciate Apple trying to get rid of too many control interfaces. For the most part I am behind them all the way.

    However, the one button to control this thing is rediculous. On a shuffle I often end up jumping forward or backwords through a fair amount of songs to find something I am in the mood for. On this one you double click to go forward, triple click(?!) to go back. Fastworward/rewind? double click and hold, triple click and hold (but only if you are more than 6 seconds into the track, or the triple click restarts the track). Say the name of the song? Click once and hold for 1 second. NOT FOR LONGER, if you hold longer, then you go to playlist selection!

    This is not a step forward. Apple's approach to a simple design before made them accessible to nondorks. Grandmother friendly. My grandmother would need a cheat sheet to operate this. It honest reminds me of The Onion's coverage of The Wheel.

    1. Re:morse code controls by ukyoCE · · Score: 1

      It seems like the shuffle has always been targeted at people uninterested in fine-tuned track selection, to whom having a tiny music player is paramount. Is it better to have wacky morse code controls available than to make those things impossible? Hard to say. I imagine very few people buying this Shuffle will learn and remember anything beyond "double click to go forward".

    2. Re:morse code controls by RadioElectric · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or this Peter Serafinowicz sketch, it's all coming true!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGGOn-H7s3Q

    3. Re:morse code controls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are missing the point of this "shuffle". Now you can have different playlists for different moods. Happy, sad, sleepy, love, gangster, road, exercise, whatever your into, and let it play. mix it up with shuffle. Curious about a song name now and again, you have a way. This wasn't possible before. One playlist required forward and back more. No way to get a song name until you synced and skimmed over it to figure out which it was. The idea is to use the controls less with a shuffle. If you like flipping around through your tracks & don't use smart playlists, get something else, the shuffle is not and never was for you.

  24. Re:Shiny and tiny! by tsa · · Score: 1

    Thus we arrive at what is without a doubt the single worst product that apple has ever released.

    No, the puck mouse still has the nr. 1 place. The new iPod shuffle is at least usable, but it definately comes close though.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  25. Not going to go down well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a new VoiceOver feature that can recite song titles, artists, and playlist names

    The copyright holders are not going to like this. Lawyers .. arm!

  26. Very interesting different "Voices" by marcushnk · · Score: 1

    So if you load the player using a MAC you get one voice... if you load it using anything else you get a completely different voice.

    This is a rather interesting thing to do... I mean, what happens if the MAC users like the other voice?

    Why would they do such a thing unless the MAC voice was "better" is some way?

    --
    "Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
  27. Half the size = BS by Jason1729 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    They shrunk the size by moving UI parts into a second unit.

    By that logic I have a full blown PC the size of a USB memory stick. Just ignore the big beige box attached to the stick, that's only the power and reset buttons.

    1. Re:Half the size = BS by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      By that logic I have a full blown PC the size of a USB memory stick. Just ignore the big beige box attached to the stick, that's only the power and reset buttons.

      PC? As in a "computer" that is not build into the keyboard? Just a fad that will pass soon.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    2. Re:Half the size = BS by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      PC? As in a "computer" that is not build into the keyboard? Just a fad that will pass soon.

      Yes, just as soon as people stop wanting to be able to easily select and change the parts in their computers from a continually improving range produced in a competitive market of independent hardware manufacturers.

      You know, never.

      Oh wait, I forgot we were talking about Apple, the same company that thinks that permanently bolting batteries into devices is a good idea. And that you will defend them to the death with your integrated keyputer.

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    3. Re:Half the size = BS by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Do you have a stick up your ass, or just lack any kind of humor?

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  28. Get a Sansa Clip instead by spike2131 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The 4GB Sansa Clip is a similar size, $18 cheaper, similar battery life, has a small screen, and doesn't lock you into the iTunes ecosystem.

    --
    SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container
    1. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by gbarules2999 · · Score: 1

      I grabbed an 8GB one on clearance at Wal-Mart, and I hear others are finding the same. $50. Works in Linux just fine, has OGG/FLAC support thanks to the new firmware. I don't want to sound like a viral marketer, but that was one of the better MP3 player purchases I've made (and it was certainly better than that excuse for a 4th Gen iPod Nano).

    2. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by ukyoCE · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Sansa Clip is 1.35" x 2.7" x .65". 2.36 cubic inches.
      The new Shuffle is 0.3" x 1.8" x 0.7". 0.38 cubic inches.

      The Clip is bigger than the LAST generation of the shuffle. It's 8 times bigger than this generation of the shuffle. Not really what I would call "similar size".

    3. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by evanbd · · Score: 3, Informative

      While I like the look of the Sansa Clip (never used one), calling it similar size is simply incorrect. It's approximately 7 times bigger. I can see plenty of ways its better, but the size is not even close to "similar".

    4. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      The 4GB Sansa Clip is a similar size, $18 cheaper, similar battery life, has a small screen, and doesn't lock you into the iTunes ecosystem.

      Yeah, and a Mini Cooper and a Hummer are also similar size.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    5. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by spike2131 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Similar size, meaning in this case, "small enough you don't notice the dam thing".

      --
      SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container
    6. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by blackmonday · · Score: 1

      I have that exact Sansa, and although its a bit larger than the new shuffle, it's the best compromise of "tiny" and "usable". It's a great piece of hardware, and Sears had them for only $35 a few months back. The screen is great, and most importantly the sound is top notch. You get FM with recording capability too, for your NPR needs. I recommend it highly. I'm an Apple fan but the Shuffle has nothing on the Sansa, except size. For me the Sansa is as small as it needs to be.

    7. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by tp9674 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actual the Sansa is 1.35" x 2.17" x 0.65" = 1.90 cubic inches = 5 shuffles, but your point still stands.

    8. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by cortesoft · · Score: 1

      It sounds like quite a pain to use it on a Mac though... no native support, and the workaround (http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=clip&message.id=3744) seems like quite a bit of work to just be able to copy and use playlists. You have to download a special script to convert iTunes playlists, as well as a number of other steps. A lot more of a hassle than just plug and sync like the iPods.

      If you are willing to go through that much of a workaround to get it to work, then it wouldn't be much more difficult to do something similar to use the iPod without iTunes (http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/managing_your_ipod_without_itunes)

      Why are you willing to work so hard to get a Sansa Clip to work outside the 'windows ecosystem', but then say the iPod locks you in when the same amount of work would separate it from the 'iTunes ecosystem'?

    9. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and a Mini Cooper and a Hummer are also similar size.

      Any two objects can be described as radically different when compared in isolation with no other reference point. Your implication (in numerous comments) that sansa, creative and other players aren't small is childish.

      What is an ipod touch in your world, an oil tanker?

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    10. Re:Get a Sansa Clip instead by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      When somebody says two things are the same size and they aren't, it's obviously my fault for pointing it out, because that makes them feel bad. Is that your point?

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  29. NOT Digitial Rights managment by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The headphones do not contain Digitial Rights Management. device will play just fine with ordinary headphones. in no way does it block access to your music.

    the headphones can contain a controller to tell it to advance to a given song or change volume. Were you somehow expecting unmodified headpones to do that? how exactly?

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:NOT Digitial Rights managment by Firehed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would expect at the very least Apple's existing headphones with a remote to do that, yes. I'm given the impression that's not the case. As I do own a couple sets of third-party headphones with a remote built in (to replace the headset that comes with the iPhone), I'll wait until I can test them. Either way, I find the requirement for an external remote when using a music player with any non-headphone audio output (which I'm doing 95% of the time) completely idiotic.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    2. Re:NOT Digitial Rights managment by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      Think you've replied to the wrong person :)

    3. Re:NOT Digitial Rights managment by goombah99 · · Score: 1

      oops 8-)

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    4. Re:NOT Digitial Rights managment by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      Hmm.

      Statement A:

      "device will play just fine with ordinary headphones. in no way does it block access to your music."

      Statement B:

      "the headphones can contain a controller to tell it to advance to a given song or change volume."

      So your definition of 'plays just fine' includes being unable to control the volume level or, in fact, to choose which of the several hundred tracks on a device you actually want to listen to?

      No wonder you have no complaints about this product. Hey, I have a new MP3 player I would like to sell you. I know it looks like an ordinary rock, but I can assure you that it plays just fine. You just need special headphones if you want added features like actually hearing the music, which unfortunately are out of stock at the moment.

      "Were you somehow expecting unmodified headpones to do that? how exactly?"

      By having controls on the fucking player, you Apple-apologist troll.

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    5. Re:NOT Digitial Rights managment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was expecting the actual device to have, I dunno, buttons on it?

  30. Screw that... for the sheer hilarious effect... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    ... just check that eff.org link before the last in the summary:

    iLounge sums up what this means for consumers:

    This is, in short, a nightmare scenario for long-time iPod fans:
    are we entering a world in which Apple controls and taxes literally every piece of the iPod purchase from headphones to chargers, jacking up their prices, forcing customers to re-purchase things they already own, while making only marginal improvements in their functionality?
    It's a shame, and one that consumers should feel empowered to fight.

    I don't know why... but cluelessness of iPhans never seizes to amuse me.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  31. no buttons? should not have been a problem, but.. by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    disclaimer: I have no MP3 player at all actually, I don't listen to music, but I want to say something about the no-buttons interface.

    The new Shuffle talks to the user, excellent, but since it has no buttons, why not allow the user to control the damn thing by voice?

    I would not buy an MP3 player unless it was also a voice recorder, because that would be my usage of it: record voice, play voice back. So if Shuffle featured a microphone, then I could buy it, BUT BUT. I cannot buy something I cannot control, and shuffle is uncontrollable for my use.

    So then the question: if a phone I have can be controlled by voice (dial such and such, or dial a number) then why cannot this device be also voice controlled?

    Shuffle Start Record: blah blah blah... Shuffle Stop Record.

    Shuffle Play Back Last Record: blah blah blah... Shuffle Delete Record or Shuffle Store Record As $NAME$

    Shuffle Play Record $NAME$: blah blah blah... Shuffle Stop Play.

    Shuffle Delete Record $NAME$: ARE YOU SURE? Shuffle Yes. Record $NAME$ deleted.

    Shuffle List Record Names All: $NAME$ $NAME$

    Shuffle List Record Names For Today: $NAME$ $NAME$

    Shuffle List Record Names For Yesterday: $NAME$ $NAME$

    Shuffle List Record Names For $DATE$: $NAME$ $NAME$

    Shuffle List Record Names For Date From $DATE$ To $DATE$: $NAME$ $NAME$

    Shuffle Delete All Records Before Date $DATE$: ARE YOU SURE? Shuffle Yes!. ARE YOU FUCKING SURE, CAUSE I AM NOT BRINGING GOING TO TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE LOST DATA AND DON'T YELL AT ME LIKE THE LAST TIME: Shuffle, Fucking Delete the Fucking Records! SIR, YES SIR! ALL RECORDS BEFORE $DATE$ DELETED.

    --

    Now that would be a product I would probably buy: Something useful and someone to talk to :)

  32. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  33. Re:no buttons? should not have been a problem, but by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    Just came to me that with that technology you may as well add voice recognition and imprint your voice into the device and set security on some chosen records, so that the only person who can listen/delete record is the one, whose voice gave specific commands.

    Shuffle Play Record $NAME$: OH NO, YOU DON'T. YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED. Shuffle Play Record $NAME$ Overwrite Security Now: THIS SHUFFLE WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 5 SECONDS! 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 BAM!!!

  34. Re:Shiny and tiny! by gnasher719 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Thus we arrive at what is without a doubt the single worst product that apple has ever released.

    No, the puck mouse still has the nr. 1 place. The new iPod shuffle is at least usable, but it definately comes close though.

    Nowhere near close. The puck mouse did exactly what it was supposed to do. This Apple product _may_ be their worst ever, but maybe someone knows something worse:

    http://support.apple.com/kb/TA45469?viewlocale=en_US This was a tape backup device with 38.5 MB storage capacity. The Macintosh II at the time shipped with a 40 MB hard drive, so the tape was too small. You couldn't backup your hard drive on a single tape. Except if you stored your backup as individual files, in which case the backup time was so bad, it wouldn't be finished in the morning if you started in the evening - it used a tape drive to simulate a direct access device, with seek times in minutes. I bet 99.9% of its users tried it once and gave up.

  35. Amps and Pre-amps by Pinky3 · · Score: 1

    The amplifier in my stereo system doesn't have a volume control. To control the volume, I have to attach a pre-amp. How is this DRM related?

    1. Re:Amps and Pre-amps by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Your amplifier isn't restricted to what it will try to amplify - it will accept any signal you put into it. Also, it's an analog device. So no, that isn't DRM related at all.

  36. "DRM" Claims are Ridiculous by krunk7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So I'm reading all these heated DRM posts and do something incredibly silly: before posting, I did a little research.

    Calling this "DRM" is simply wrong headed. It doesn't meet any definition of "DRM". Not even remotely. And lockin? How can it possibly be lockin if anyone who wants to can manufacturer them?

    1. Re:"DRM" Claims are Ridiculous by mjwx · · Score: 1

      So I'm reading all these heated DRM posts and do something incredibly silly: before posting, I did a little research.

      Calling this "DRM" is simply wrong headed. It doesn't meet any definition of "DRM". Not even remotely. And lockin? How can it possibly be lockin if anyone who wants to can manufacturer them?

      You're right, it should really be called HRM (Hardware Rights Management) as its simply a device to spur the sales of Apple headphones by making sure that the cheap generic or other branded headphones can't be used properly with the device.

      Unfortunately for you this does meet the requirements for hardware or vendor lock-in, weather it's DRM or not can be debated until the cows come home but it is definitely an attempt at vendor lock in. Further more, headphones break, headphones break easily, I use my Iriver every day and have to buy a new set of ear buds every 3 months, I just buy cheap ones because I know I will abuse them and its only for a portable media player so buying expensive headphones is a waste of money. But even the expensive headphones break eventually, I just replaced the headphones I use on my gaming PC after 4 years.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:"DRM" Claims are Ridiculous by krunk7 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately for you this does meet the requirements for hardware or vendor lock-in

      How can it possibly be considered vendor lock-in if any vendor can make the part? Also, assuming they're going to be super expensive is just as premature. The competition hasn't even released their products yet.

    3. Re:"DRM" Claims are Ridiculous by mjwx · · Score: 1

      How can it possibly be considered vendor lock-in if any vendor can make the part?

      Apple has a history of releasing the specifications to their devices don't they? Apple are attempting to spur after market sales on their cheapest item, my existing headphones will not work and I have no doubt that the control system can be or has already been patented (meaning apple can charge other vendors a license fee for producing a similar component). I fail to understand how this is not vendor lock-in.

      Apple knows that headphones break, when a clueless user (most of apple customers) walks into an electronics store for new headphones the salesdroid is going to direct them towards apple anyway.

      Also, assuming they're going to be super expensive is just as premature.

      With Apple this is a fairly safe assumption to make. Apple's current earbuds cost twice as much as their generic counterparts (Apple earbuds A$24.95, generic ear buds A$9.95). There's no reason to believe that the new earbuds will be any cheaper.

      The competition hasn't even released their products yet.

      Thats right. You're argument hinges on products that are not released, you're argument only works if (big if there) there is a third party unlicensed competitive product released.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  37. I don't mean to be an idiot... by MindVirus · · Score: 1

    IANAL, but the way I understand it, monopolies in a specific market within the United States are OK as long as they don't try to leverage another market.

    How is this different from Microsoft's monopoly? Microsoft tried to use Windows (where it had a virtual monopoly at the time) to make everyone use Internet Explorer. They were largely successful but they were also sued.

    The way I see it, Apple is trying to use Shuffle, which has a virtual monopoly in the tiny screen-less talking music player department to leverage, to Apple's favor, the headphone market.

    But it's alright because I'm not getting a shuffle anyways.

    1. Re:I don't mean to be an idiot... by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but the way I understand it, monopolies in a specific market within the United States are OK as long as they don't try to leverage another market. How is this different from Microsoft's monopoly?

      It's different in that MS has a monopoly as determined by the courts and is a repeat offender. Apple may have a monopoly, but it is right on the edge of the market share guidelines and the courts have not made any determination of the markets.

      The way I see it, Apple is trying to use Shuffle, which has a virtual monopoly in the tiny screen-less talking music player department to leverage, to Apple's favor, the headphone market.

      That market definition will never fly. Markets are defined by what the typical purchaser will consider as alternatives. Having a screen or not having a talking feature does not automatically rule out the competition when the average person considers what to buy. In the EU, they never made a formal ruling but they seem to have sided with including cell phones that play media as valid competitors and with the laws they have restricting vendor lock-in that probably makes sense. That being the major reason Apple did not have enough influence, Apple probably does have enough influence in the US to qualify as a monopoly if it ever goes to court. The difficulties being that the cell phone market and music player market are converging and several of the markets where Apple has leveraged their monopoly are the same markets MS has leveraged their monopoly and nothing has been done about it. It's a mess thanks to the actions of the DoJ in the past.

    2. Re:I don't mean to be an idiot... by American+Terrorist · · Score: 1

      How is this different from Microsoft's monopoly? Microsoft tried to use Windows (where it had a virtual monopoly at the time) to make everyone use Internet Explorer. They were largely successful but they were also sued.

      Hmmmm. Yeah. But no. They failed at monopolizing browsers. I wonder what % of /. users use IE.

      The way I see it, Apple is trying to use Shuffle, which has a virtual monopoly in the tiny screen-less talking music player department to leverage, to Apple's favor, the headphone market.

      They have a virtual monopoly in tiny MP3 players? Really? Cuz last time I went to the store I lost count of all the brands of MP3 players I saw. Personally, I really don't know why anyone would buy the Shuffle. There are so many better MP3 players out there for lower prices. The only people buying this are either Apple fanbois who already have iTunes, an iPod, and iPhone who just want something easy to carry while exercising, or kids who save their allowance to buy something at the mall store that lets them play with computers they can't afford. The Shuffle is an utter failure of a product, calling it a monopoly is extremely misinformed.

  38. "Nightmare scenario" - hardly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article calls this a "nightmare scenario" - that's a little dramatic, dontcha think? I'm not the target audience for this iPod, but at best this is a minor inconvenience. If limiting your choice of headphones is giving you sleepless nights, I'd like to make a suggestion: There's this thing called a life, you should get one.

    Man, I swear, some people on the Internets are fit for a Lifetime drama series...

  39. DRM headphones?!?! by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Tho i'm against DRM in principle this is a good thing, and i hope they get this into enough people hands and piss off thousands of their customers.

    If enough 'average people' get angry the insanity might stop.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  40. Apple earbuds suck by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    And they hurt my ears, so now i have to choose a non apple product ( if they introduce this into the higher end ipod models ) when i upgrade my ipods in a few years.

    Of course i predicted this years ago, slowly closing the analog hole for the average joe, and people laughed. I hate being right sometimes.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Apple earbuds suck by GoldMace · · Score: 1

      They don't stay in my ears. I don't see how anyone can walk or jog with them, and yet I see people doing it all the time. They fall out at least once a song with me just sitting in a chair. I used to have an older set of earbuds back in the 90's, they were a bit bigger, and had little foam things on them like regular headphones do, they didn't fall out nearly as much...did I permanently stretch out my ears?

  41. More reasons not to buy things from Apple by basicio · · Score: 1

    It already was overpriced, had too little storage, awkward/annoying controls, and played far too few music formats.

    So now, instead of remedying any of the above Apple's gone and made it so I can't even use the expensive, good earphones I already have with it? *And* made the controls worse?

  42. You can use them by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    You just can't use the remote control built-in to apple's earphones, which is the only method of controlling this iPod shuffle. What they could have done was just included a pass-through cable that had the remote built-in, and the earphones would plug into that.

  43. So, Sony Walkman W-Series, then? by chaboud · · Score: 1

    Oh.. right. Not made by Apple.

    I'm sorry, but this device is terminally stupid. I had the original shuffle, and it did what it needed to do. The last gen was just about the perfect form factor, feeling like the remote all by itself. The current one is just stupid. I don't want two blisters on my cable. That's annoying while running.

    Throw in the headphone adapter stupidity, and, well, you have a product that will sell millions to millions...

    Of idiots.

    1. Re:So, Sony Walkman W-Series, then? by Lost+Engineer · · Score: 1

      I like the original shuffle. Of course you have to cram your music into 1GB but they're great for running. Also awesome when you travel since you avoid needing yet another charging cord or dock. The fact that it doubles as a USB thumb drive is somewhat diminished these days by the lack of storage compared to modern devices, but it is still nice.

  44. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  45. Re:Shiny and tiny! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, A guy did that and posted the video. They definitely escort you out of the store.

  46. Re:Shiny and tiny! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Apple III definitely was the worst product ever released by Apple, it never worked!

  47. Waaaay overpriced here. by leenoble_uk · · Score: 1

    In the UK, the new iPod shuffle is £59! The old model could be had for between £30-£35, which put it in the easy gifting bracket. With the price now effectively doubled I think Apple are going to lose a LOT of sales over here.

    And yes, I know a lot of it is to do with the fact our currency has tanked and our economy is completely screwed but it still seems like there's a little bit more to it than that.

    I only hope that these kinds of percentage price hikes aren't seen across the range. I sorely tempted to buy up all the old models left and hold on to them for a few months to sell them at a profit.

    1. Re:Waaaay overpriced here. by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      In the UK, the new iPod shuffle is £59! The old model could be had for between £30-£35, which put it in the easy gifting bracket.

      And they are still available for £31.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    2. Re:Waaaay overpriced here. by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      And they are still available for £31.

      And therefore the pricing of the new ones is totally beyond criticism.

      I gotta say, you often post quite interesting comments, but in this thread you have been nothing but an aggressive Apple apologist throughout. Sad.

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    3. Re:Waaaay overpriced here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I gotta say, you often post quite interesting comments,

      Only when they're unrelated to Apple. Lars is the most rabid, illogical, Apple Fanboi on slashdot. (yes, I realise the competition he's up against).

    4. Re:Waaaay overpriced here. by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      You could try to learn to read. Or you could just shove it. He said the old ones aren't available anymore at the old price, he was wrong. But we "Apple apologists" aren't supposed to say that others are wrong, especially when they obviously aren't, is that right. Ooops, did it again.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    5. Re:Waaaay overpriced here. by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      You could try to learn to read. Or you could just shove it. He said the old ones aren't available anymore at the old price, he was wrong. But we "Apple apologists" aren't supposed to say that others are wrong, especially when they obviously aren't, is that right. Ooops, did it again.

      No, he said the new one isn't available at the old price.

      As he notes in this comment:

      I sorely tempted to buy up all the old models left and hold on to them for a few months to sell them at a profit.

      he is well aware that the old ones are still around at the old price.

      Perhaps you should take your own advice and learn to read instead of spending all of your time looking for opportunities to employ your glib little pseudo-socratic responses to people who you disagree with?

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    6. Re:Waaaay overpriced here. by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      He was talking about the old ones that would be sold out (the ones that are left as he put it). "The old model could be had"he said, not "can still be bought". He was clearly assuming that the old model would no longer be available from Apple, only from shops that still had them on store or from the refurb store.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  48. This is Free Market Folks.... by Darkk · · Score: 1

    This is Free Market Folks....

    Seriously, if you don't like the DRM crap Apple put into their products then don't buy the damn thing!

    If more people follow this logic then maybe Apple will get the message.

    For me I have a choice of what MP3 player with the features I want unless somebody pointing a gun at my head.

  49. Reminds me terribly by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    of the spoof named Apple Wheel...

    http://www.theonion.com/content/video/apple_introduces_revolutionary

    Apple needs to realize when they have reached the pinnacle of usability and keep trying to find a peak which may not exist nor even be needed

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  50. Re:Lawsuit pending... by macs4all · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Sadly, this new feature has resulted in a lawsuit by the Professional Screen Navigation Narrators Guild, who are being put out of work by this voice synthesizer technology.

    You rock! This is only about the 2nd time a comment on /. has made me truly LOL!

    Thanx for making my day.

  51. Youtube comments... by linhares · · Score: 1
    always the best!

    castrodisticcowboy (6 days ago) +1 Reply 3:20-"my big cock"?

    DylanMakesNoise (2 days ago) -3 Reply ......what the fuck did i just watch?? what the FUCK are those things with little ponytails?? god thats DISGUSTING. obviously not one of God's creations!

    hightek669 (2 days ago) +1 Reply Wow, what a heartless thing to say. These "freaks" were real people (real people like me & you)-- just people with deformities. This was a cast mostly composed of actual carnival performers-- real people in which had the same feelings as you & I, do what we do on a day-to-day basis (eat, sleep, breathe). I sure as hell would hate to see how you react to mentally-challenged people.

    DylanMakesNoise (2 days ago) 0 Reply i knew the rest of em were, just not those ponytailed freaks.. they scare the shit out of me ririmja (1 day ago) +1 Reply i agree with you completely people like you are rare stay cool aufer21 (3 days ago) 0 Reply

  52. Damn you apple! by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    My old Zenith space command control does not work with apple's frontrow.

    And I'm annoyed it doesn't work with the vinyl and CDs I already bought.

    It doesn't fit in the protective case I bought for my iphone.

    it does not fit in my itouch dock.

    my old memory sticks don't fit in my new imac.

    Damn you apple, always making my older gear obsolete. I think I'll blame it on DRM and post it on slashdot.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  53. Re:Shiny and tiny! by mlts · · Score: 1

    I remember that tape drive, which tried to emulate a disk device.

    I also remember someone trying to defragment the emulated filesystem, and left it shoe-shining for a week.

  54. Has this been corroborated? by Anonymous+Freak · · Score: 1

    The article writer mentions that his *non-remote-equipped* headphones cannot control the new shuffle. Well, duh. The article writer mentions that new headphones "need a new chip".

    Has this been corroborated by others? Has it been confirmed that existing third-party iPhone headphones won't even allow the click to play/rewind/fast-forward doesn't work? Because this article seems to be drawing a big conclusion from *ONE* set of headphones.

    Now, if existing remote-equipped headphones don't work, then yeah, this is pretty lame. But if it's solely because nobody makes third-party headphones with the full remote controls (I have only seen ones for the iPhone, with one clicker and a microphone; not ones that have three clickers to include volume like Apple's,) then it's all speculation.

    --
    Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
    The purpose of that site was not known.
  55. Re:Shiny and tiny! by tsa · · Score: 1

    Nowhere near close. The puck mouse did exactly what it was supposed to do.
     
    If it was supposed to give you intsant RSI then you are certainly right.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  56. Re:Shiny and tiny! by Idolminds · · Score: 1

    The first iPod Shuffle looked way better than the generic boxes the competition was pushing. Most people that want a small mp3-player for use during sports or commutes listen to music with the device in their pockets, so not having a screen isn't all that important.

    I'm confused. If you're just stashing it in your pocket, why does it matter what it looks like?

  57. Works well with the iPhone by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    The iPhone has had a similar control scheme the whole time, and I think it works pretty well for common operations. Pause is one click, skip is two - the others are nice but really things you don't need much. Honestly even the frequency of asking for a song name seems pretty low in my mind, since it's loaded with music you put on! It seems like you'd know the name, or once in a while want to tell someone the exact artist.

    The scheme works well enough that when I bought an adaptor for my car aux in I made sure to buy one that offered the same button so I could easily skip or pause tracks in the car without using the screen controls - in essence making it a shuffle while I drive.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  58. Not tolerated? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Apple's abuses would not be tolerated if they came from Microsoft,

    Bullshit, what about the custom USB and controller wireless schemes on the 360? Can you easily replace Sync on a Ford?

    Not that it makes the approach right, but it's also not fair to single out Apple users for accepting this when lots of companies are doing similar things already and many people don't know enough to complain.

    People will accept the headphone thing though because of the extra control functionality. It's pretty easy to understand that you'll need to get special headphones to use the device at full capacity, and since there will eventually be third party earphones (or adaptors) I don't think people will care much.

    The DRM chip aspect is pretty annoying for us technical types but when it gets all mingled in with a custom design it's too hard for most people to distinguish.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  59. Shouldn't you look before you post? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1
    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Shouldn't you look before you post? by makomk · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you read the reviews on the page you linked to, that cable apparently isn't compatible with the iPhone 3G, presumably because it's a cheap, unauthorised third-party cable without the correct authentication chip.

  60. Apple suxx0r by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet another apple product that is overpriced and relies on design to sell rather than innovative technologies. A special chip required to add functionality that should already be there? 10 measly hours of battery life? DRM?

    Please, let apple do some more to identify apple users beyond the patent white earbud cables, so that I know well in advance of speaking to someone how pretentious and incapable of individual thought they are.

  61. Re:Shiny and tiny! by bennomatic · · Score: 1
    What exactly was the puck mouse supposed to do? For me, it did the following:
    • Cause frustration.
    • Convince me to buy a logitech mouse.
    • Encourage me to ignore any future announcements about Apple-made mice.

    If their aim was to ensure that people did not take their mouse technology seriously, then I guess I have to agree with you. However, if they were actually trying to build a useful human interface device, they failed.

    --
    The CB App. What's your 20?
  62. Space Command! by jhantin · · Score: 1

    My old Zenith space command control does not work with apple's frontrow.

    And I'm annoyed it doesn't work with the vinyl and CDs I already bought.

    It doesn't fit in the protective case I bought for my iphone.

    it does not fit in my itouch dock.

    my old memory sticks don't fit in my new imac.

    Damn you apple, always making my older gear obsolete. I think I'll blame it on DRM and post it on slashdot.

    Those wood-cabinet Zenith sets are pretty robust, but count yourself lucky if your Space Command remote still works at all! I have a soft spot for older gear myself, but those things fall over dead if you so much as look at them funny, let alone bump them on something.

    Anyway, that set will probably need a DTV converter box soon, which might further degrade the usefulness of the remote.

    --
    ...when you're writing a game...tweak the difficulty of "Easy" to something [your mother] can cope with. -- onion2k
  63. prevents it from fully working? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, it just that people who do not know that "64K is enough" cannot understand. The insensitive clods!

  64. Actually... by YuppieScum · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    It's the same adaptor as all the other HTC phones use, and have done for the past n years - converters can be had for trivial money if you bother to look...

    Further, no DRM is involved as the converters/adapters contain no proprietary logic, and the connector specification is published with no restrictions on it's use.

    BTW, perhaps you should not behave like a twat.

    --
    This sig left unintentionally blank.
    1. Re:Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow... that response was far too civil. Apple fanbois are such a pain. 'weird USB headphone adapter' = miniUSB connection used in a bucketload of phones. Probably one of these jerkoffs annoyed by the 'Inner Fence' app of getting free SMS's from google then whinging when shut down despite the InnerFence morons having no service contract for any SMS service. InnerFence about to get F'd in the A with refunds - pawning the blame off onto a 3rd party is such a farce.

    2. Re:Actually... by adisakp · · Score: 1

      Ummm... I'm not an "Apple fanboi" for one. I actually bought the Android (before returning it because it turned out to be a "beta" product). And I was pretty peeved at the lack of a headphone adapter. The USB-mini connector is not a standard for headphones no matter what anyone of you say (I can't buy them at Best Buy or any other common electronics store at least). Plus it's just darn annoying that I can't recharge and use audio out at the same time (i.e. like if you wanted to play music thru car stereo while recharging). It's bad design and proprietary and just as much "DRM" as the iPod Shuffle headphones -- possibly more since you can actually plug in regular headphones into a shuffle and have it work (albeit with reduced functionality provided by the missing control buttons).

  65. Re:Cubic Inches by whyde · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is disingenuous to measure the "size" of the new shuffle without including the size of the cord up to and including the "remote control" portion of the headphones. In fact, since the device is nigh unusable without the bundled headphones, you should just probably find the total displacement of the whole shebang before you've found the true size of it all.

  66. Re:Headphones - Car adaptors by Autonomous+Crowhard · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this means that the adaptor in my car would no longer work. Talk about a non-starter.

  67. Apple still sells the 2nd Gen. Shuffle by sottitron · · Score: 1

    Not highly publicized, but the old one is still for sale. And this isn't the clearance section - its a small link on the new shuffle's store page to another page in the main store.

  68. locked in? by dafing · · Score: 1

    have you ever used iTunes? it doesnt lock you into anything. Its no more "locked in" than your Sansa is "unwanted by iTunes, Americas preffered place to listen to music, buy legal downloads and listen to podcasts". sorry, I havnt had any internet access for five days because a technician left a "jumper" out on an exchange :)

    --
    --- ...or a new slashdot signature. Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
  69. OK, I spent 18 more seconds on Google by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Here you go.

    Point still stands, if you're going to complain about price spend a few seconds looking online for a better price first.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:OK, I spent 18 more seconds on Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Here you go.

      Point still stands, if you're going to complain about price spend a few seconds looking online for a better price first.

      From the page you link to: - UPDATE: This cable does not work with the iPhone

      Your intelligence seems quite low, so I suspect you'll come back with another link.

    2. Re:OK, I spent 18 more seconds on Google by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Here you go.

      Point still stands, if you're going to complain about price spend a few seconds looking online for a better price first.

      Actually you have been helping to prove my point. These cables are popping up all over the place, and no doubt they ship a dozen or so before someone comes back with the complaint that "It doesn't actually work with the iphone 3g". Then it drops off.

      That's the problem with this chip. Until you actually get someone who has bought one of these cables, and tried it in an iPhone3g (And potentially one of a specific software version) You have no real confidence in the compatability.

      A cable, should be a cable, should be a cable. You shouldn't have to worry if there is some proprietary chip inside a what should be little more than pins, shielding and a connector on each end. It introduces a hell of a lot of confusion, highlighted by your inability to first select the correct cable. (and according to the description, you didn't get it right the second time either).

         

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  70. Evidence of DRM? by reversible+physicist · · Score: 1

    The EFF article just quotes the iLounge article as its source -- it is certainly not independent confirmation of anything. The guys at http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/03/14/we-found-the-chip-in.html have pictures of an actual chip under the switch in the cable, but this also proves nothing about DRM. You presumably need circuitry in the cable to make this thing work: unlike the iPhone or iPod touch, this iPod reuses the earphone connector to sync the iPod!! My guess is that one of the functions of the chip in the cable is to simply identify what has been attached to the connector. I've seen no evidence that there's DRM involved.

  71. EFF seem not so sure themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This whole DRM story is based on absolutely nothing. See the first post here:
    http://blog.philipgbaker.com/my_weblog/2009/03/apple-introduces-2-new-products-a-new-shuffle-for-us-and-a-new-chip-for-headphone-makers.html
    where the EFF blogger asks for proof - retrospectively.

  72. Re:Shiny and tiny! by berend+botje · · Score: 1

    Looks do matter for initial purchase. People buy sleek looking shiny things. Not poop colored Zunes, for example.

  73. Jogging means you can never look at a screen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what good are the 4 tiny lines while jogging?

    There's this thing you can do when you're jogging. It's called stoping. You might be waiting for a set of lights, or you might just really want to know what the name of the track you're listening to is.

    You obviously are the sort of viking raver who simply has no time to look at a screen, so the shuffle is obviously the perfect choice for you.

    Not everyone is a viking raver however.

    1. Re:Jogging means you can never look at a screen? by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Jesus fucking Christ, when you want to know the name of the track you're listening to is - you press a button, and the Shuffle tells you - how fucking hard is that? You don't have to stop or wait for a red traffic light, you don't have to dig out your player, and you don't have to focus on a tiny screen.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    2. Re:Jogging means you can never look at a screen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You asked what good the four lines were for when jogging. Lose the anger a little child.

    3. Re:Jogging means you can never look at a screen? by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      Jesus fucking Christ, when you want to know the name of the track you're listening to is - you press a button, and the Shuffle tells you - how fucking hard is that? You don't have to stop or wait for a red traffic light, you don't have to dig out your player, and you don't have to focus on a tiny screen.

      You're an angry man. You also appear to be unable to distinguish between your personal preferences (including an apparently strong preference for 'whatever Apple just did' over 'other') and reasoned argument.

      What if you don't want your listening experience interrupted by some bullshit text-to-speech audio playing over the top of it? You know, if you are the kind of person who is more interested in the sound of the music they are listening to than some bullshit Apple gimmick. Yes, we do exist. Although I guess to be fair, people who care about the sound of the music they are listening to are unlikely to be using an ipod in the first place.

      What if you want to be able to glance at your player and see how much time is left on a particular track?

      I mean, according to your logic, why do any MP3 players have screens? Are purchasers of these players simply ill-informed about how great having no control or visual feedback is? Amazingly, many people find that the distance between their head and their arms does not magically extend when running, and so having a screen on an MP3 player remains somewhat useful.

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    4. Re:Jogging means you can never look at a screen? by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Jesus fucking Christ, when you want to know the name of the track you're listening to is - you press a button, and the Shuffle tells you - how fucking hard is that? You don't have to stop or wait for a red traffic light, you don't have to dig out your player, and you don't have to focus on a tiny screen.

      You're an angry man. You also appear to be unable to distinguish between your personal preferences (including an apparently strong preference for 'whatever Apple just did' over 'other') and reasoned argument.

      Listen, when some fuckwit tells me a tiny screen is the way to go when you want to know the name of the track that's playing specifically when he is jogging - it has nothing to do with Apple not including a tiny screen when I tell him he is clinically insane.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    5. Re:Jogging means you can never look at a screen? by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      Jesus fucking Christ, when you want to know the name of the track you're listening to is - you press a button, and the Shuffle tells you - how fucking hard is that? You don't have to stop or wait for a red traffic light, you don't have to dig out your player, and you don't have to focus on a tiny screen.

      You're an angry man. You also appear to be unable to distinguish between your personal preferences (including an apparently strong preference for 'whatever Apple just did' over 'other') and reasoned argument.

      Listen, when some fuckwit tells me a tiny screen is the way to go when you want to know the name of the track that's playing specifically when he is jogging - it has nothing to do with Apple not including a tiny screen when I tell him he is clinically insane.

      I jog and use an MP3 player, and have no difficulty whatsoever glancing at the "tiny screen" to see what is playing. Am I hallucinating this experience? Am I clinically insane?

      Or are you just so hell-bent on defending a total gimmick that you are unable to accept the reality of empirical observation?

      --
      Read Pynchon.
  74. Apple-branded surgical modifications by David+Gerard · · Score: 1

    Apple has announced its new iPod Shuffle, the smallest yet. The new Shuffle offers more storage, better sound, a talking interface ("the first talking interface on an MP3 player! Except Rockbox, but only freetards use that and they don't count") and superior abilities to pick up chicks.

    Controversy has surrounded the new hardware requirements for the Shuffle, including new Apple-branded headphones, Apple-branded music and surgical attachment of the device to one's genital region. "Total quality control," said Steve Jobs. "All competitors are inferior by definition and will be crushed."

    Apple fan blogs were unanimous in their praise of the "iButtPlug" installation procedure. The hardware lock-in was a brilliant business move on Apple's part, the best possible thing for the consumer and a moral and ethical requirement to sell MP3 players at all, wrote Daniel Eran Dilger on Roughly Drafted. He also intimated that all negative press on the matter was the work of Microsoft astroturfers.

    Microsoft countered with a preannouncement of its new Zune LP player, which works with 9.5" vinyl discs manufactured with the PlaysYouBetcha! process and a cubic zirconia stylus.

    "There's no such things as Zunes," laughed Jobs. "They're a fairy tale we invented to get young Apple Store employees to behave."

    --
    http://rocknerd.co.uk
  75. Stupid design. by argent · · Score: 1

    There's no reason for this excessive complexity. The shuffle and the control dongle on the earphone wire are bulkier than the previous model, and more complex to control. I ordered one of the discounted previous model as soon as I saw it, and I hope that it doesn't break until after they come to their senses.

  76. are you serious? by panthr · · Score: 1

    jesus fucking christ, a link to microsoft's windows 7 development blog is tagged 'astroturfing', but this disgustingly obvious slashvertisement gets off scot-free? what a joke this place is becoming.

  77. Re: iPod Shuffle Finds Its Voice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There has been research conducted on the iShuffle, and it looks like mostly women will be buying it:

    http://blog.researchadvanced.com/2009/03/13/smartphone-wars-on-ebay-blackberry-vs-iphone/

  78. No DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And so it comes out that there is NO encryption/DRM in the headphones:

    http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/16/no-drm-in-headphones-for-new-ipod-shuffle/

  79. Simple. Leave the controls in the player. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Then let the user buy his own headphones.

    Oh wait, Apple want to sell their own proprietary headphones at Apple prices (i.e. several times more than a standard equivalent providing the same function elsewhere) or to sell licenses to accessories manufacturers.

    My bad. I should not get into Apple's plans of flogging the consumer during an economic depression.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  80. You are riding a bike! by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Have some responsibility for beenies sakes ...

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  81. Nike+ by Lepensky · · Score: 1

    Is this iPod ready for Nike+?

    --
    HANDY ZUBEHOER - online bestellen bei MeinTrendyHandy GmbH