Slashdot Mirror


GameStop Selling Games Played By Employees As New

Kotaku reports on a practice by GameStop which allows employees to "check out" new copies of video games, play them, then return them to be sold as new. Quoting: "When a shipment of video games initially arrives at a store, managers are told to 'gut' several copies of the game, removing the disc or cartridge from the packaging so it can be displayed on the shelf without concern of theft, according to our sources. The games are then placed in protective sleeves or cases under the counter. If a customer asks why the game is not sealed they are typically told the the game is a display copy. The game is still sold as new. When check-out games are returned, we were told, they are placed with the gutted display copies. If a customer asks about these, they are typically told they are display copies, not that they have been played before. Since the copies are often placed with display copies, even managers and employees typically don't know which of these games have been played and which haven't."

243 comments

  1. How about DRM? by mcvos · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The site seems slasdotted, so I can't RTFA, but my first thought is: what about games with draconian DRM that allows you to install it only a limited number of times? Employees playing those games may destroy the usefulness of those games.

    1. Re:How about DRM? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Gamestop has pretty much abandoned PC gaming in favor of console games. Going by the local ~50 odd gamestops I doubt most of their employees even understand what they're selling beyond "Yo I so own at halo brah".

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    2. Re:How about DRM? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      I suspect this is more of an issue with console games, which are more of a "pop in and play" sort of affair. A lot of PC games have their disks or activation codes in sealed envelops, so it would be harder to get away with that.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    3. Re:How about DRM? by DrEldarion · · Score: 5, Informative

      The only games they'd do this for are console games, which don't have DRM worries. PC games, AFAIK, are all sold sealed.

    4. Re:How about DRM? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The real problem is most console games these days are on optical media, and they get scratched and worn out by use. Not to mention, who wants a manual that's already been used? In practice it probably doesn't matter much, and as long as people keep buying them, it's not going to stop. Personally I never shop at Gamestop, and even smaller towns tend to have independent video game shops.

      --
      Qxe4
    5. Re:How about DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They lowered their financial concentration towards PC games because it was so damn easy to walk out of the store with 5 copies of COD4, UT3, FEAR (or whatever the choice was for that day) in your pocket. Ebay ftw

    6. Re:How about DRM? by rekenner · · Score: 1

      The site is working fine for me, so, RTFA. They can't install games with DRM.

    7. Re:How about DRM? by Opportunist · · Score: 0, Troll

      You get what you pay for, what did you expect? Someone who can talk intelligible would be able to get a job that pays a dollar more. If he can write, two bucks more. If he can think past his next lunch, he's promoted to store manager.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:How about DRM? by Hadlock · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Optical media almost never gets scratched unless you're eight years old and still can't care for your toys. I lent my beloved copy of Parappa the Rapper to my 8 year old cousins and it came back unplayable, I'm still angry about that 8 years later. All of my optical media from high school is still in great shape, mostly sitting in old CD-R spindles (the best way to store media IMO)

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    9. Re:How about DRM? by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's new to me. Most PC games I bought so far have their activation code or license key on a sticker inside the DVD case, on the disc sleeve or on the manual.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:How about DRM? by Mozk · · Score: 1

      I would be angry about that too. Here. That game was awesome, but so difficult.

      --
      No existe.
    11. Re:How about DRM? by SCPRedMage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Considering the cases/boxes for PC games tend to be much larger than than for console games, I call bullshit.

      Besides, why would someone shoplift when the torrent went up days or weeks before it hit the shelves?

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    12. Re:How about DRM? by SCPRedMage · · Score: 1

      PAL for the lose.

      Err, not that I'D ever look at a torrent...

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    13. Re:How about DRM? by zakkie · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Someone who can talk intelligible..." - and they say yanks don't get irony? ;)

    14. Re:How about DRM? by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Employees playing those games may destroy the usefulness of those games."

      Most of the publishers already did that when they included DRM in the first place.

    15. Re:How about DRM? by sshuber · · Score: 1

      You get what you pay for, what did you expect? Someone who can talk intelligible would be able to get a job that pays a dollar more. If he can write, two bucks more. If he can think past his next lunch, he's promoted to store manager.

      Interesting since everyone I worked with when I worked at a Gamestop was in college at some stage including myself. If you don't want to do much except talk about games and ring people up for a few hours a week, it's a fantastic job.

    16. Re:How about DRM? by sshuber · · Score: 5, Informative

      I used to work at Gamestop and we could only check out console games for obvious reasons. Everything else is true though, except my manager pushed that we check out used games as much as possible and he inspected new games when we brought them back. If it was scratched at all, you got the pleasure of buying it. It was a pretty sweet perk to have though. Obviously Gamestop's thinking is that they want a staff who knows what they are selling.

    17. Re:How about DRM? by Swizec · · Score: 0

      You should try if they're actually still playable. I wanted to play some Abe's Exoddus for nostalgia reason a few years back and the CD was completely unreadable. No scratching or anything, just your run of the mill dye fade.

    18. Re:How about DRM? by tepples · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Gamestop has pretty much abandoned PC gaming in favor of console games.

      Even console games have install limits nowadays. One component of the Animal Crossing 3 bundle is a voucher for Wii Speak Channel that can be installed only on one Wii console.

    19. Re:How about DRM? by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      I thought DRM was one of the major points of a console.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    20. Re:How about DRM? by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 1

      No, perhaps you're thinking of the fact that normal rubes can't copy a Wii disc.

      --
      "I only speak the truth"
      Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
    21. Re:How about DRM? by Kildjean · · Score: 1

      This is outrageous!!! The thought that the empire could do this... think of the consequences.... Seriously though, when I was manager in Crofton, Md, the rule imposed was that: New games couldnt be taken out for two weeks, only USED games were allowed to be taken out... I dont work there anymore and maybe the Emperor changed the rules, but that is how it was. The only games that were allowed to be taken home for "checking out" were the console games, because of obvious copyright implications PC Games were not allowed to be used as "checking out games".

      --
      Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
    22. Re:How about DRM? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      You don't take the cases/boxes.

      You take the CD, the sleeve of which that has the code number on it, or the little cardboard insert with the code on it, and leave an empty box on the shelf.

    23. Re:How about DRM? by Scuff · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can get downloadable versions of Abe's Odyssey and Exodus from steam relatively cheaply. It's $15 for both right now, which isn't great, but a couple weeks ago they had the pack onsale for $2.50. Might be worth looking at next time Steam has a big sale, if you're in the nostalgia mood again.

    24. Re:How about DRM? by socrplayr813 · · Score: 1

      And how would that be different from walking out with a console CD/DVD?

      --
      The confidence of ignorance will always overcome the indecision of knowledge.
    25. Re:How about DRM? by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Wow, that's something I'd never expect from Nintendo. Besides, if the Wii Speak Channel is what I think it is (from what the name suggests), I'm assuming it's a rather pointless channel if you don't have the hardware (Wii Speak) to use it. You may install the channel on 3 Wiis (if they allowed you to, that is), but you can still only use it on the one Wii that you have Wii Speak hooked up to. Seems kind of pointless to be requiring online authorization for software that essentially already has a dongle.

    26. Re:How about DRM? by Turken · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep. Had an acquaintance that worked at a gamestop for awhile, and they had the same policy. Still, I never buy from GS in general because I just don't care for my game packages to be pre-opened, even if they are "new" prior to my purchase. I guess it comes down to an issue of trust. If you can't trust the store to give you straight information about games (without trying to upsell you unnecessary crap), how can you trust them to be telling the truth about the condition of that pre-gutted game?

    27. Re:How about DRM? by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      The idea is that it forces you to buy a new one. You can't buy a used one, because you won't have the coupon.

    28. Re:How about DRM? by MBGMorden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They only keep boxes for the console games on the floor and keep all actual copies of the game behind the counter.

      Still, if it's as big of a problem as the OP suggests, then I think they'd simply do the same with the PC games too.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    29. Re:How about DRM? by MaggieL · · Score: 1

      intelligible grammatical

      --
      -=Maggie Leber=-
    30. Re:How about DRM? by MaggieL · · Score: 1

      OK, "Plain Old Text" apparently does not include unmolested <

          intelligable < grammatical

      --
      -=Maggie Leber=-
    31. Re:How about DRM? by MaggieL · · Score: 1

      spelling < intelligible

      more coffee > *

      --
      -=Maggie Leber=-
    32. Re:How about DRM? by drzhivago · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I worked at Babbages in the mid-90s. The policy of employees taking products home to become familiar with them was encouraged. And really, from a standpoint of being able to inform the customer better, it was a great idea. PC products were not excluded from this policy. Granted it was in '96 or so, and there was an equal amount of disk-based products as CD-based ones, the internet wasn't that big of a deal, and games/products were connected as most are today.

      As for the "guts", when I was there we generally only gutted one copy, and that was what got put on the shelf for display. If it was the last copy and we had to put the game back inside the box, we'd tell the customer we were doing that. I don't remember anything sneaky being done regarding that.

    33. Re:How about DRM? by CharlieHedlin · · Score: 1

      Spindles seem to destroy my media. The disks stick together (after being stored at room temperature) after 2-3 years.

    34. Re:How about DRM? by Nitar · · Score: 1

      What about games like MMOs? I've never played one for the console, but Final Fantasy XI would apply here. I'm pretty sure the game will become useless to anyone else after the first person played it.

    35. Re:How about DRM? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Except I'm pretty sure the PC game publishers wouldn't let them open the boxes.

    36. Re:How about DRM? by Lord+of+Hyphens · · Score: 1

      Movie rental places (Blockbuster, etc) do the same thing with their rental units.
      Employees get access to most of the items (games/movies) a week or so before it hits the shelves. Now, there were some rules that needed to be followed (bring it back on-time or before the release date or you're fired), but it worked out.

      --
      "I've spent my whole life figuring out crazy ways to do things. It'll work." -- Montgomery Scott, "Relics"
    37. Re:How about DRM? by revery · · Score: 1

      Just in case anyone is wondering, I finally broke down and bought one of those CD/DVD buffing/repair kits (with the hand crank, haven't tried the automatic things) and it works great. I got a lot of games and DVD's that my kids had scratched working again with it.

    38. Re:How about DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Someone who can talk intelligible..." - and they say yanks don't get irony? ;)

      Is the example ironic or hypocritical? I.e., a person who rails against bordellos but is caught patronizing one would be a hypocrite, but I don't think it's an example of irony.

      They also say Yanks don't have a sense of humor, but they also say, "You can't catch a hog with Uncle Eddie's banjo."

    39. Re:How about DRM? by sexconker · · Score: 2, Informative

      Incorrect!
      Then changed it right after launch.
      You can request a new code for free.

    40. Re:How about DRM? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Too bad Gamestop does all of that for you.
      But instead of stealing the game, they lock it up behind the counter.

      Every game on display (except for the bargain bins, that's not exactly a display) is an empty box.

    41. Re:How about DRM? by The+Analog+Kid · · Score: 1

      Except I'm pretty sure the PC game publishers wouldn't let them open the boxes.

      Then, get those plastic cases that you need to unlock at the counter. (Yes you could still steal it, but it would be a bit more noticeable)

      or lock them all up behind a glass case. (It would require employees to actually do something while working, but sacrifices need to be made somewhere)

    42. Re:How about DRM? by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      I just bought Counterstrike:Source there three weeks ago. the discs and serial number were kept in an envelope behind the counter. When I brought the empty box up to purchase it, they put the discs and serial card back in, then put a plastic seal on it once I'd been rung up.

      I also bought a copy of Mass Effect for the Xbox there at the same time. There were several used-game boxes on the shelf (presumably corresponding with their inventory-on-hand). Since it was a gift, I asked if they had any new copies. The new copies, along with the used discs, were also stored behind the counter and given to me at POS.

    43. Re:How about DRM? by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      I worked at Babbages in the mid-90s. The policy of employees taking products home to become familiar with them was encouraged. And really, from a standpoint of being able to inform the customer better, it was a great idea.

      That's somewhat encouraged at gamestop as well, it's the reason for the employee checkout program. I think it's on paper only for used games, but obviously that's not going to stop hapless gamestop employees from playing it.

      That might change though, I suspect gamestop, which is your typical company run by complete idiots, is going to ban all checkouts (new and used) by employees. I guess it can't hurt gamestop much more, more than half the people who work there don't know much of anything about games anyway.

    44. Re:How about DRM? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      First sale doctrine. As long as the store has already paid for the product how they sell it is their own choice. They can't legally prevent them from selling even a used copy of a PC game (technically using the DRM they could, but if the store didn't allow the games to be taken home then the DRM wouldn't be activated until the customer bought it anyways).

      Besides that, if you wanted to not have them open the box, that can be solved too. Keep a scanned photo of the box on the shelf with product tags underneath it. Bring a tag to the counter, they pull a sealed box from underneath the counter - you needn't open a box at all (and actually long ago - back in the NES days which is the last time I've been inside there, Toys R Us used to sell games exactly like this).

      I think the primary reason Gamestop has simply scaled back PC games has nothing to do with people shoplifting discs, and everything to do with the simple decline in PC gaming as a whole. Whether or not you think it's a good thing (I don't - I far prefer gaming on my PC), it's pretty obvious that PC gaming has been in decline for a few years. Whats left on the platform these days is simply the stuff that doesn't work well on consoles - flight sims, RTS, and MMORPGS (and flight sims themselves have taken a major hit in popularity since their hayday - again not something I like, but it's reality). The lack of a branding requirement (IOW: anybody can make and publish a PC game) also means that online downloading is a much more viable distribution possibility for PC games compared to retail stores.

      Like any other store, they'll devote less and less of their floorspace to products that don't sell well.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    45. Re:How about DRM? by Masami+Eiri · · Score: 1

      You're not expecting NEW product at Blockbuster though. When I worked there (about 6 years ago), it wasn't grounds for termination if you were late bringing it back, but you did pay a late fee, IIRC.

    46. Re:How about DRM? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I just bought a "new" PC game at Gamestop that had no plastic seal, and the disc was behind the counter. I almost walked out of the store. And if it weren't a $5 crappy adventure game, I would have. Cheap entertainment won out in this case.

    47. Re:How about DRM? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      First sale doctrine. As long as the store has already paid for the product how they sell it is their own choice. They can't legally prevent them from selling even a used copy of a PC game (technically using the DRM they could, but if the store didn't allow the games to be taken home then the DRM wouldn't be activated until the customer bought it anyways).

      \

      True, but they CAN decide not to give them wholesale access to any more games, limiting them to used games and stock on hand, which would eventually lead them to the same point they're at now (no PC games to sell).

    48. Re:How about DRM? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Not the PC games.

    49. Re:How about DRM? by MaxwellEdison · · Score: 1

      I've never had a problem with my local Gamestop. And frankly, I want the employees to play the games. That way if I ask their opinion, I don't get the same spiel I could read in a magazine. Of course, I haven't purchased a "New" game since Guitar Hero II came out (Used games have feelings too damn it, stop treating them as second class software titles!) I might not be as incensed as someone who can't stomach the idea of playing a game someone else spun up before.

      --
      -=Bang Bang=-
    50. Re:How about DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true. My copy of The Last Remnant was not sold sealed. In fact, all boxes of PC games were hidden in a small shelving section in the corner of the store, and when you take the box up, they pull out the DVD case and pop in the discs and manual.

      I didn't have any issues, but that will make me think twice about buying any future PC games from Gamestop.

    51. Re:How about DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, those things are great... they grind down the surface of the CD to leave even more impressive scratches on them!

    52. Re:How about DRM? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Go find me a Gamestop that still carriers PC games, then we'll talk.

    53. Re:How about DRM? by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

      > yanks don't get irony

      *Head explodes due to uncertainty of whether that's supposed to be ironic*

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    54. Re:How about DRM? by erac3rx · · Score: 1

      I'd like to point out a piece of information that no one has yet referenced-- when you buy a game "opened new" from Gamestop you actually have much worse rights to return it than if it actually has its proper shrinkwrap on it. An important distinction given that most of the time they try to sell me an "opened new" copy they haven't re-shrinkwrapped it. Check out this excerpt from their return policy, located at http://www.gamestop.com/gs/help/Store%20Return%20Policy.pdf :

      - Unopened new merchandise may be returned for a refund or exchanged within 30 days of purchase.

      - Opened new merchandise may be exchanged for the identical item within 30 days of purchase but, with the exception of opened new accessories, cannot be returned for a refund.

      Yeah, you read that right. If they do in fact sucker you in to buying an "opened new" copy, you can't return it for a refund, you can only exchange it, making you even more screwed. What I personally love about this policy is that it thoroughly ruins their BS argument that an "opened new" game is exactly the same-- per THEIR OWN RETURN POLICY it's not, it's far less valuable.

    55. Re:How about DRM? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      GameStop #5552
      Market Square
      13711 S TAMIAMI TRL
      FORT MYERS FL, 33912 US
      (239) 432-9639
      Mon-Sat 10am-9pm, Sun 12pm-6pm*

    56. Re:How about DRM? by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      I was at Babbage's in the late '90s and our policy was (as you'd expect) the same. I'd just like to add a point about employee checkout of new games.

      Several posters have expressed concern that these discs may be scratched or damaged when they come back. At my store, we always did a visual check of the disc before bringing it back into the system to be sold. This check is obviously performed by someone other than the employee who checked out the game. I don't know what the policy was for scratched disks because it never happened at my store and I wasn't a manager so didn't care.

      The game once checked in was then shrinkwrapped and put back in the cabinet with the rest of them. I never had a customer complain or to my knowledge even notice that the wrap was different, and our customers loved that we had a shrinkwrapper so that we could rewrap display copies when they were purchased as gifts.

      All of this to say that this is not new, it has been done for at least ten years, and I'm frankly surprised that more people had no knowledge of the practice until now. We didn't go around saying "if you work here you can rent games for free!" but it wasn't a secret either.

    57. Re:How about DRM? by mr5oh · · Score: 1

      I've known about this for years, and I've never worked for any of these companies. When I go into a Gamestop, or similar place, I asked for a sealed copy of the game, if they don't have a sealed copy, I go to the nearest other store, and buy a sealed copy. It's simple, rather whine about it, ask for a sealed copy, if they don't have one go somewhere else. Put your money where your mouth is.

    58. Re:How about DRM? by Tybalt_Capulet · · Score: 1

      Intelligible is a word in America.

      You can thank our former president for ruining our already poor public education.

      --
      Has the old saint in his forest not yet heard of it? That God is dead?
    59. Re:How about DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is pretty much true for my local Gamestop.

      I went in a few months ago to purchase Fallout 3, and I made a passing joke about how it was "Oblivion with guns." The manager found it strange that I didn't like Oblivion, but I mentioned that it was just a jest and that Oblivion is fun once you've modded out the problems.

      His response? "We're not allowed to talk about modding. That's illegal."

      Even once I clarified that I meant PC game modding and not console modding, he still was under the impression that it was "illegal."

    60. Re:How about DRM? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      In in which case they could revert to the second solution I mentioned. The base point is that it's not rocket science to work around this issue, and there are numerous viable options if shoplifting was their true concern.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    61. Re:How about DRM? by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Some console games nowadays come with a code to download extra content, which can only be used once. The game itself will work if it's pre-played, but the extra content won't.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    62. Re:How about DRM? by Ptraci · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So is intelligibly, which is what should have been used there.

    63. Re:How about DRM? by Golddess · · Score: 1

      I am not familiar with all MMOs, or even more than 2, but both FFXI and WoW offer free, downloadable demos.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    64. Re:How about DRM? by MaggieL · · Score: 1

      And yet he was intelligible, though not grammatical.

      I eschewed using "intelligibility", which is fortunate because then I would have been forced to say "grammaticality".

      --
      -=Maggie Leber=-
    65. Re:How about DRM? by Nitar · · Score: 1

      Right... but let's say the GameStop employee decides to "check out" the new copy of FFXI. Doesn't that essentially lock anyone else out of using that particular copy of the game?

      In the PC world that is absolutely the case. If I purchased a copy of WoW, which I have, you use up that unique key. You can resell the disk, but it will be completely worthless to the buyer (unless of course you sold your account to go along with it.)

    66. Re:How about DRM? by Darth+Hubris · · Score: 0, Troll

      Ha! You can thank the liberal educational system in America for that. "Fuzzy math" -- math without numbers? The whole aim of the educational system now is to ensure the students "feel good about themselves"; education is a FAR second. That's why there are an overabundance of idiots lined up to work at Gamestop and say such things as "Yo I totally own halo brah!"

      --
      The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out
    67. Re:How about DRM? by d0rp · · Score: 1

      Me fail English? That's unpossible!

    68. Re:How about DRM? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Do you live in Houston or Miami? It's fairly humid here in Dallas but I've never had a CD stick to another one. I move on average every 18 months so, so maybe them getting jostled around helps prevent it. Also I'm only using the 25 & 50 CD stacks, not 100.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    69. Re:How about DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the primary reason Gamestop has simply scaled back PC games has nothing to do with people shoplifting discs, and everything to do with the simple decline in PC gaming as a whole.

      You're wrong for two reasons. Factually, because PC game software sales are actually up, year after year, even if console sales grow faster.

      More importantly, you are wrong because you fail to realize what Gamestop is. They are not a video game store, they are a pawn shop specializing in video game sales.

      The distinction is important, because they can't really sell PC games used for $55 when the new one is $60. That's what they do with console titles. Buy it today for $60, sell it back tomorrow for $25-$30 and then they sell it used for $55. Gamestop's ideal world is where they buy one copy and then sell it 365+ times a year at a 50% gross margin. Naturally, the display copy will be sold for the original $60, even if it's open, because hey, that's $5 more int heiur pocket.

      Gamestop is a pawnshop, realize that and you understand why they want pre-orders and don't want new stock, ever, if they can help it.

    70. Re:How about DRM? by SCPRedMage · · Score: 1

      GameStop #1942
      Valley River Center
      Valley River Center
      Eugene OR, 97401 US
      (541) 345-1022
      Mon-Sat 10am-9pm, Sun 12pm-6pm*

      GameStop #4545
      Gateway Mall
      3000 GATEWAY STREET
      SPRINGFIELD OR, 97477 US
      (541) 744-7844
      Mon-Thu 10am-9pm, Fri-Sat 10am-10pm, Sun 11am-7pm*

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    71. Re:How about DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can also get them from Good Old Games (gog.com), without the DRM of Steam.

    72. Re:How about DRM? by Golddess · · Score: 1

      Right... but let's say the GameStop employee decides to "check out" the new copy of FFXI. Doesn't that essentially lock anyone else out of using that particular copy of the game?

      It would, but I was merely pointing out that they wouldn't have to open a retail copy that they later intend on selling in order to "check out" an MMO.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    73. Re:How about DRM? by Mozk · · Score: 1

      This seems to work. If not, try this. As a last resort, here is a torrent of all the games, which may or may not be NTSC, with currently one seeder.

      I'm just assuming that you already own the disc legally, but it's lost or scratched like the GP's.

      --
      No existe.
    74. Re:How about DRM? by theblinddevil · · Score: 1

      Optical media almost never gets scratched unless you're eight years old...

      Optical media almost never gets scratched unless you don't take care of it. Age has little to do with it. If someone is the kind of person that doesn't respect their property, their disc collection will likely be full of scratched, or unclean discs. In the case of GameStop, it's probably more likely for a disc to be damaged from shipping than it is from staff use, so I don't really see it being a problem. And besides, you could always return it if it's not in top condition.

    75. Re:How about DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad you took the time to brag about your media-handling skills. I bet you have plenty of free time to develop handling skills of all kinds.

    76. Re:How about DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having been a former employee of GameStop, and a member of store management, I personally found the checkout policy to be the only worthwhile perk of working at the store. Beyond that, we regularly worked overtime, had a littany of tasks required to be done daily, poor to mediocre benefits, we received very little support from Middle or Upper Management and were constantly being pressed to meet ever increasing sales requirements ("Sales Goals" never quite was the term to use) that were quickly becoming impossible to achieve by the time I left. Generally speaking, when I spoke to some of the stores which were ranked higher in terms of Sales Goals and Performance in my district and region, I found that the store was only succeeding due to deceptive practices or by the management team essentially sacrificing their free time and coming in early, staying late and going in on days off just to get what was being required of us done.

      So, I guess considering all that, now that I'm out I could care less if the clerk got to play my copy of Bioshock 2 first, just as long as it's in new condition and has all the scratch-cards intact, I'm happy.

  2. Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Why should I care if a game has been played before?

    1. Re:Does it matter??? by Askmum · · Score: 3, Funny

      My thought exactly. Except in cases where there is some kind of mandatory registration with a key on the box, or the disc is limited to the number of times you can read it, what is the difference between a disc that has been read once before and a disc that has not?
      Is this the "I need a virgin" phenomenon?

    2. Re:Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      It is because it is a used (pre-played) copy being sold as new.

      New price > used price

      In the case of a used copy, I want to look at it to make sure it seems like the disc is in a playable condition before I buy it. (Scratch? I've gotten used discs that looked fine, but didn't quite play (Playstation one era))

      If it is new, I expect it to be a new, unplayed copy, that will work in my system without problems.

    3. Re:Does it matter??? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or, maybe it's "I'd rather not have had someone else's machine (or kid brother, or whatever) scratch up the disc I spent $60 + tax on." Beyond that, it's simply a matter of integrity. If someone else has played the game, it's not a virg... I mean, it's not new anymore.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Does it matter??? by bugnuts · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hate to break it to you but...
      wait, no, I'm ecstatic to break this to you:

      Your new car has been driven by several other people. Someone else popped its cherry.

      And that $35,000 new car you just bought (that isn't really new) is way more than the $35 disk you just bought. And when it comes down to it, you can usually tell if you didn't get all the bits you paid for on a CD, but it's more difficult to tell if your new car has been abused.

      In some ways, it's probably better to be played. At least you know there are no immediate catastrophic errors on the disk.

    5. Re:Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      In some ways, it's probably better to be played. At least you know there are no immediate catastrophic errors on the disk.

      Unless that employee accidently damaged it while he was playing it, and put it back quietly to avoid having to pay for it out of his own paycheck. Just saying.

      Besides which, I'd prefer it to remain sealed until I get it home to my own machine. If it fucks up when I play it, I can at least rule out the store as the source of the damage. When it's already unwrapped, I immediately assume all damage caused is by the store. (And end up getting venomously pissed at them and start taking my business elsewhere.)

    6. Re:Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In the case of scratches the store can easily send the disc back. No biggy.

      This really is a non-issue. Hardly any "new" product you buy, is actually new and the usability, quality or the length of a CD's lifetime is not limited by using it, so having it "new" usually only stands for unscratched. Any disc can be scratched; even on virgin discs that are still sealed and came straight from the factory. People whining about this probably only want virgin girlfriends too.... and have no older brothers and sisters.

    7. Re:Does it matter??? by Opportunist · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I was wondering the same. There are actually only two reason why I would care:

      First, activation / registration codes being used. I wouldn't like it one bit if a game like Spore told me I'm a petty thief (or worse) because it should be running on a completely different machine.

      Second, wear, tear and damage. Some consoles are not really careful when reading their media, scratching them. Some people ain't too careful either.

      Aside of that, play my game if you want to 'til I buy it. I certainly don't care.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:Does it matter??? by elcorvax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In fact I don't care if the game has been played before IF they tell me that. Otherwise if they say that the game is brand new, then it should be Brand New !

    9. Re:Does it matter??? by RogueyWon · · Score: 1

      Yes, basically. If a game is sold as new, then it should be new (as in, unplayed). I remember once on a business trip to the US, picking up a "new" copy of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories from a Gamestop, which had a saved-game with 20 or so hours of play on the cartridge's save slots. Wasn't happy about that at all, even though it didn't actually detract from my own play experience. It just made me feel like I'd been taken for a ride.

      I found out too late to do anything about it (in the departure lounge at Miami International), so had to console myself with the thought that some Gamestop employee was probably kicking himself for giving away the cartridge with his save-game on it and having to start the game afresh (yeah, I know, he might just have gotten bored of it, but I can dream).

    10. Re:Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean, it's not new anymore.

      It's bits. If you actually care whether this particular copy has been copied onto yet another computer you really need to get out more.

    11. Re:Does it matter??? by Walpurgiss · · Score: 1

      I've only had them push the gutted copies on me three times, and they've never refused to let me look at the disc first and then decide. It's still pretty bogus that they sell it as new, but you can always choose to wait for a wrapped copy if you don't like it.

      All in all, like you said, it really isn't that big a deal as long as people are willing to ask to look at it first and refuse if necessary.

    12. Re:Does it matter??? by PHPNerd · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And thus why you should never by a new car OR a new game. They aren't worth what they're sold for, and with cars you lose something ridiculous like 30% of its value in the first year. With games it's similar, you can buy a used game a year later for half the original new price, maybe even less.

    13. Re:Does it matter??? by ndege · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In some ways, it's probably better to be played.

      When I buy a car, I don't get a code that could have already been activated/banned etc that completely renders the car disabled; even though, the car looks new without even a scratch. A car can be test driven, a car is repairable, and, the buyer is covered by lemon laws. Lemon laws for games anyone? ;)

      Automobiles are automobiles and CDs are CDs.

      --
      Sig Return: 204 No Content
    14. Re:Does it matter??? by TheGavster · · Score: 3, Informative

      For a little extra, GM will actually let you take personal delivery of a new Corvette at the factory, after personally supervising its construction: http://www.corvettemuseum.com/ncm_delivery/index.shtml

      --
      "Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
    15. Re:Does it matter??? by internerdj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That has always bothered me. In fact, I was thinking about it on the way to work this morning. From my experience, I have about 100-150 thousand miles before I have to dump major money into a car for a major repair. I've done the following exercise several times: Take the total price of a car new and divide it by the expected remaining lifespan prior to major repairs, do the same with a late model used car doesn't matter if it is in the paper or sold by a dealership(although the price will be higher for a dealership). I've found in general a used car will already have used up a third to half of its lifespan before being sold as used, but the price will in no way be near 2/3 to a half of what the original price was even taking into account resale value when you get near the end of that lifespan. Maybe it works different for more pricey vehicles than I've ever been able to buy, but the whole drive it off the lot price drop only seems to matter if you rotate cars every few years.

    16. Re:Does it matter??? by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

      Although there is much controversy on the topic, having your car thrashed in the wild for those first two or three digits on the odometer is likely to be doing the engine a good service. Matching up the piston ring to the cylinder wall is, by all accounts, best done with short and hard bursts of power and a few oil changes. (Here's the first website I dug up: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm) How does this even remotely relate to that brand new game? I'm not sure, but I'm positive someone, somewhere, has built a device or application to 'pre-condition' the bits somehow for better longevity, maybe it spins the CD at 24386RPM for the first 3 million rotations, who knows, either way, whatever it is will be filled with references to phase change and numerous buzzwords.

    17. Re:Does it matter??? by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Absolutely true. Particularly when you go to the store and see a game on the shelves as both - sometimes the difference in price between the new and used versions are $15 (sometimes only $5). For something that I just see on the shelf that interests me, I'll often pickup the used version. For something that I think I'll like more and play longer (or most certainly if I'm buying the game as a gift for someone else), I'll splurge for the new.

      When I pay that extra money specifically for a new copy, leaving used ones back on the shelf, I damn well better get a new and SEALED copy of the game.

      That said, knowing these policies, on the 1 or 2 cases where I tried to buy a new game from Gamestop and they proceeded to pull it from a storage envelope, I immediately stopped the process, got my money back (explaining why), and headed next door to Wal-mart to buy the game.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    18. Re:Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only if you buy a lot car... if you order it special I don't think anyone else can drive it (except on off the car haulers?)

    19. Re:Does it matter??? by WankersRevenge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And that $35,000 new car you just bought (that isn't really new) is way more than the $35 disk you just bought. And when it comes down to it, you can usually tell if you didn't get all the bits you paid for on a CD, but it's more difficult to tell if your new car has been abused.

      A video game is not a car. When a consumer buys a car, he has different expectations than buying a video game. The other neat item that destroys your equation is a little thing called an odometer that tells the user precisely how much wear and tear is on the vehicle. And if the odometer reads a high mileage, you can negotiate a lower rate. When a consumer buys a "new" video game from gamestop, the price is always 59.99 even if the box has been opened.

      In some ways, it's probably better to be played. At least you know there are no immediate catastrophic errors on the disk.

      So you are saying it is better to buy a used copy of a game, seeing as how the early adopter has already tested the game for you? Sure, I have no problem with that. That's why I buy a used copy of the game. I don't need a "food taster" for my crap when I buy it new.

      Look ... when I buy a product, I expect it to come in its original packaging straight from the factory. When its out of its packaging, I have no idea where the product has been. Sure, it could have been safely stowed in drawer, but seeing the assholes who work at my local gamestop, I can only assume the game has been used as a coaster for a cigarette stuffed bottle of stale miller light. How am I to know otherwise?

      And I still haven't reached you ... hey, if you are looking for new games to buy, I got a bunch of them at my house. Give me a buzz sometime and I'll warm up my shrink wrap machine.

    20. Re:Does it matter??? by LandoCalrizzian · · Score: 4, Funny

      All little wordplay for you:
      Hate to break it to you but...I checked out your [game/wife] out sometime ago. Yeah, yeah I know you thought [it/she] was untouched and paid full price but we barely had 10-12hrs of passionate [gameplay/lovemaking] together. This was long before you decided to [buy it/marry her]. I didn't leave any marks...well that's not entirely true but you can barely see those [scratches/scars]. Don't worry, you'll still get to have your fun. If it doesn't work out there is a [sequel/sister] and my buddy says [it/she] is much better and he's only 8 hours in. I hope you like store credit.

    21. Re:Does it matter??? by flitty · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I worked at a local cd/game shop a few years back, and we had console demo stations where we would put in the most current release for folks to try out. When we switched out the games and sold the opened copy, we would inform the buyer that because the game was already opened, they couldn't return the game for anything except the same game (if there were scratches or anything), which we had to do by law, opened copies cannot be returned for cash (thanks DMCA!) So if they were buying it for a gift or something, we would give them an un-opened copy. If they raised a fit and we only had the opened copy, we'd give them the "local" discount which was like $2. And, if they were still reticent about buying a used copy, we'd mark their receipt to note that they had bought an opened copy so there wouldn't be ANY problem with a return. As long as people know what they are buying, there isn't a problem with such a practice. If Gamestop isn't telling people these opened games are non-refundable, then there's a problem, but otherwise, this is a non issue.

      --
      Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
    22. Re:Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All cars have a little device called an odometer which shows how many miles your "new" car has clocked from the factory to the car lot. Your post might have some merit if software came with an odometer which show how much the store's employees used the game and then try to hawk it as new.

    23. Re:Does it matter??? by Xaoswolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, for starters, used games ares sold at a discounted price from new games. So if you are buying a game at the new price, and it's been played before, one would consider that a little dishonest.

    24. Re:Does it matter??? by INeededALogin · · Score: 1

      When I buy a car, I don't get a code that could have already been activated/banned etc that completely renders the car disabled;

      Lay off the FUD, if you do have this happen, then you will return it and get a new copy of the game. Show me the person who bought a game, found the code not working and just said, "Oh well, I guess I shouldn't play this game". Also, if GameStop doesn't take the return... you can always buy from someone else.

    25. Re:Does it matter??? by CharlieHedlin · · Score: 1

      My 4 year old BMW m3 convertible has 40k miles on it. I got it last month for $26.5k. MSRP for the car with all the options was somewhere in the 65-70k range (nav, bluetooth, assist, Premium stereo, SMG), or at least not under 60k.

      It should easily go to 150k miles, and I may keep it to 200k. I bought more than 2/3rds the car for less than 1/2 the price.

    26. Re:Does it matter??? by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 1

      Well, this is hardly "news"... Heck my friends made a flash video about it 9 months ago, and they were working on it for about a month...

      Shamoozal Presents: "The Last Copy"

      --
      We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    27. Re:Does it matter??? by Nitar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lay off the FUD, if you do have this happen, then you will return it and get a new copy of the game.

      You're missing the point... Now this person has to drive home, pop the game in, enter the code, find out it's broken, drive back, argue for a new copy (which might not be new), drive home and repeat the cycle?

      The point is, if the game is sold as being NEW, then it should be NEW.

      The last time I bought a gutted game at GameStop, the manual had grease and food remnants all over it. It also already had a saved game. That was the last time I purchased anything at GameStop.

    28. Re:Does it matter??? by techprophet · · Score: 1

      The other neat item that destroys your equation is a little thing called an odometer that tells the user precisely how much wear and tear is on the vehicle.

      The odometer can be reset. You forgot to mention that. Just like a game package can be resealed.

      And for all of you mandating stickers, a little water and they come off with no residue, and can be restuck after finishing (at least some can).

    29. Re:Does it matter??? by MightyYar · · Score: 0, Troll

      That still doesn't work - who in their right mind would marry a virgin? :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    30. Re:Does it matter??? by revery · · Score: 1

      Look ... when I buy a product, I expect it to come in its original packaging straight from the factory. When its out of its packaging, I have no idea where the product has been. Sure, it could have been safely stowed in drawer, but seeing the assholes who work at my local gamestop, I can only assume the game has been used as a coaster for a cigarette stuffed bottle of stale miller light. How am I to know otherwise?

      Because, if it's not sealed in its original case, you can look at it, you know, with your eyes, and then choose not to buy it if it's scratched or if there are tracces of cigarette ash or beer stains on it. Or you can tell the manager that you want one that wasn't a "display copy" and if they only have "display copies", then you can either buy it, or not buy it, or try to Intimidate the manager, or just wander around and level up for a while and collect more gil, or whatever. It's really up to you. But let's dispense with the drama. It's not like the store is replacing the sticker on the top of the case (that's such a pain to remove) and then re-plastic wrapping it and pretending that it's never been opened. Sheesh.

    31. Re:Does it matter??? by WankersRevenge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes ... odometers can be reset. It is not an easy thing to do that results in prison time if you are caught doing it. I'm guessing people who roll back their odometers don't get a lot of repeat customers seeing as how the quality of cars aren't a priority to those dealers.

      And hey ... forget about the whole sticker thing. There's an easier solution. Don't buy new games at Gamestop. Problem solved. Granted, I don't have problems buying a used game there although I still find their prices way overpriced (Fable 1 for the Xbox was going 15 bucks used -- wtf???). Personally, I like getting my used games from gamefly. Most of the discs are in great condition and the box doesn't require latex gloves to handle it.

    32. Re:Does it matter??? by techprophet · · Score: 1

      And hey ... forget about the whole sticker thing. There's an easier solution. Don't buy new games at Gamestop. Problem solved. Granted, I don't have problems buying a used game there although I still find their prices way overpriced (Fable 1 for the Xbox was going 15 bucks used -- wtf???). Personally, I like getting my used games from gamefly. Most of the discs are in great condition and the box doesn't require latex gloves to handle it.

      Words to live by. As a rule I don't buy games unless they get a constant 90+% on many game review sites. And then I look around on ebay/craigslist before turning to gamefly or amazon.

    33. Re:Does it matter??? by WankersRevenge · · Score: 1

      A customer shouldn't be forced to inspect a product that he is buying as new because gamestop opened it and potentially damaged it. Call me a drama queen if you want, but I'm not the one who should lower my standards when making a sale, especially if that price is non-negotiable. That's how you get taken. Today it might be sixty bucks, tomorrow it might be a thousand. Either way you're getting screwed without the niceties of being handed a cigarette.

    34. Re:Does it matter??? by Xerolooper · · Score: 1

      People who roll back the odometer arn't thinking that far ahead unfortunatly to many people operate in that mode.

      Funny you should mention Fable 1 as I just downloaded it to my 360 since the 3 copies I purchased didn't work playing from the game disk. It was 800 points. So far the download works with only the occational loud but brief fuzz noise comming from the speakers. 15 bucks for fable one is stupid along with 49 bucks for a used fable 2 disk. I also had to copy the fable 2 to the disk to stop it from freezing every 5 minutes but that was borrowed from a friend so I have to wait till fable 2 gets more resonable before I can acually play the game since even though it is on the 120G HDD I can't play that one without a disk.

      Anyway I don't think there is any question that what they are doing is wrong. If I pay for new it should be new not gently used. Ofcourse because they are so overpriced the last game I got was Halo3 a friend bought it used for me had to take the first copy back as unplayable. The second copy wont load several levels(I haven't had a chance to copy to HDD since I just got the 120G) Before that I bought Pinata Island only because my kids begged me for it I wont make that mistake again.

      --
      "The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
    35. Re:Does it matter??? by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "I'd rather not have had someone else's machine .. scratch up the disc"

      Right. They might be using too heavy a needle.

    36. Re:Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Believe me, I can do things to your car that mean you would not want to buy it before the odometer hits 1.

    37. Re:Does it matter??? by gknoy · · Score: 1

      Either way you're getting screwed without the niceties of being handed a cigarette.

      I never quite understood that. "Now that we've screwed you, how about some lung cancer too!" I guess the idea of cigarettes with sex comes from when smoking was considered Awesome.

    38. Re:Does it matter??? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Well I think this is trivial because it's happening at GameStop. I feel lucky if I can get in and out of there without somebody shitting on my chest. I don't really care if they play the game before they sell it to me as long as they wipe their spooge off the disc before putting it back in the case. Which they do nearly half the time, so really, what's the big deal?

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    39. Re:Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does not being able to exchange opened copies for cash relate to the DMCA?

    40. Re:Does it matter??? by Audiophyle · · Score: 1

      This isn't rocket science. Do what I do every time I buy a disc from these places, whether it's new or used: Personally inspect the disc before they bag it up for you. They never mind it when I ask, and I feel good about the purchase afterwards. I don't mind that it's been opened as long as everything is in tact the way I expect it to be.

    41. Re:Does it matter??? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Troll? What in the world?

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    42. Re:Does it matter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, ditto. The thing is, when I did it, it didn't seem like they cared at all. I suspect that such a large portion of their revenue comes from the actual used merchandise, that selling new things is almost a loss leader for them

  3. never again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    gamestop is a horrible, horrible store

  4. This is just now news? by the_nightwulf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I cannot believe this is just now becoming a "scandal."

    I was a Gamestop assistant store manager in the early 2000's. This was policy way back then, and we abused the shit out of it. Yes, policy said you could only check out one thing at a time for a certain period of time (I remember it being six days, maybe things have changed ...) and you could only check out any given product once, and no products like OSes or consoles. In practice, we took whatever we wanted whenever we wanted for however long we wanted. All the managers covered for each other and the other employees when the district bigwigs came by. On inventory days everyone brought in a list of things to add to inventory. This was SOP for all the stores in my district, and pretty much every store nationwide if you believe the chit chat at the annual store manager meetings.

    "Gutting" has been policy for at least that long too. Per policy, you'd "gut" one copy of a game and when it came time to sell, you'd repackage and re-shrink wrap it. We were supposed to shrink wrap the shit out of everything (Dreamcast software for example: pull the entire CD tray out of the jewel case, shrink the case and put it on the sales floor, shrink the CD tray and secure it behind the counter), but in practice that was too much work once there were 500+ PSX titles, 200+ DC titles, etc. I made sure there wasn't anything obvious left over (stickers with SKU numbers on CDs, for example), but many people didn't. We were also instructed when selling the gutted copy to just walk it to the back and shrink wrap it without offering any explanation. The old pre-EB POS system (which was written in QuickBASIC Professional, and I swear I am not making that up) used to say "Gut checks save lives!" as a part of the screen saver.

    This is been going on for well over 10 years. CD-based software borrowed out and scratched. Cartridge-based software borrowed and sold as "new" with saved data on it. Ask any Gamestop employee if they pay for magazines or tax software. Ever wonder why every Gamestop has a shrink wrapper in back? Do you not know how to tell the difference between factory shrink wrap and re-wrap? Factory wrap is "crinklier" ... and there's always a seam somewhere where a small machine with a glorified hair dryer can't produce one (usually down the middle of the back of the package).

    Oh, and my apologies to whoever ended up buying that one copy of XP Home we had. I didn't realize at the time that the product key couldn't be reused.

    1. Re:This is just now news? by Gothic_Walrus · · Score: 1

      I cannot believe this is just now becoming a "scandal."

      It's popped up on the internet a few times before, and I know I've seen discussions about this on sites like CheapAssGamer before that Digg article was posted.

      Unfortunately, though, nothing's been done about it (at least that I know of). Until the policy is changed or, better yet, eliminated entirely, this is going to keep popping up as "news."

      --
      Goo goo g'joob.
    2. Re:This is just now news? by fahrvergnugen · · Score: 5, Informative

      This policy has been around longer than that. I was an employee exercising the checkout policy back in the floppy / cartridge days, at several of the stores which would eventualy merge to become Gamestop (c. 1993-1997) This is old news, the lawsuits about it have come and gone. The policy has been disbanded, then re-instated several times. There's no use getting your panties twisted about it now.

      Look: If you're reading this article, it's safe to assume you've been in a Gamestop (or EB, or Babbage's, or Software Etc., or Funcoland, or whatever your local store was before being devoured by ConGlomCo). So it is because of your undoubted nightmare customer experience in such places that when I tell you the following, you will know that it is true: working there was a fucking horrorshow. The hours were terrible, the customers obnoxious, the colleagues irritating, the stink from the shrinkwrap machine quite literally poisonous, and management incompetent, malicious, or both. Mind you, I'm talking about how bad it was 15 years ago when the stores were competing with each other. I can only imagine that it's gotten worse for employees since the industry consolidated completely, and you can no longer just walk up to the other side of the mall and get a job with the competition.

      These stores pay minimum wage, offer employees almost no discount on the products they sell (and indeed often restrict employees' access to hot items like new-release consoles), and employees are forbidden to hang out mucking about with the in-store demo kiosks during downtime or off-duty hours. Yet at the same time, the customers and management demand that the employees somehow be knowledgable about all the product in the store. These products have consistently sold for $50 - $80 apiece for years. As an employee, you're supposed to have played everything, yet as an employee, you're subject to the same "you broke the shrink, you own it" return policy on $140 a week for the average part-timer. It's an impossible situation for a 19-year-old trying to make rent, groceries, and tuition, much less a sad-sack 30-something manager with kids, pulling in $25k a year on a 70-hour work week if they're lucky.

      Gamestop didn't post record profits by paying their line employees well. Everyone's a disposable cog, and they'd just as soon fire you as look at you. Don't think as an employee you aren't constantly reminded by management about the eager stream of salivating 16-year-olds who think working in a game store would be SO COOL, dreaming of replacing you.

      Given all this, do you think anyone in their right mind would work at that store if they didn't offer employees what amounts to a free lending library of the newest titles? What other incentive could there possibly be to irritate people with membership clubs, pushy pre-orders and used game pitches, and the soul-crushing pain of listening to the loop of that piped in tv network all day?

      If it really bothers you, shop elsewhere. I certainly do, those fucking vultures won't ever get my money again. If you do decide to shop there, use some common sense and check your disks for scratches before you leave the store. It's not that hard.

      But seriously, quit the whining about the "used sold as new" crap. The checkout policy is the price you pay for having specialty knowledge behind the register at minimum wage prices.

      --
      Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
    3. Re:This is just now news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know from personal experience that this was happening at Babbage's as far back as at least 1988.

    4. Re:This is just now news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, FUCK YOU! I'll start pirating

    5. Re:This is just now news? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      But seriously, quit the whining about the "fraud" crap. The checkout policy is the price you pay for having pre-order-pushing wankers behind the register at minimum wage prices.

      FTFY.

    6. Re:This is just now news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I lot of places sell opened software so that their employees can become knowledgeable about the software.

      They just don't sell it as new.

    7. Re:This is just now news? by Niet3sche · · Score: 1

      I used to happily pay the extra $5-$10 premium that Gamestop charges on their games for one and only one reason: Their no-questions-asked return policy. If I was unsure (for instance, multiplayer options) and the store employee didn't know, I *used* to have the peace of mind knowing that I could pick up the software, check out the item in question, and then return it and let the employee know what had happened. I did this twice, and Gamestop made an extra $hundreds off of me during this period. Then a few years back I noticed a new return policy - "you bought it, you bought it" was the gist. I have not shopped there since.

    8. Re:This is just now news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is it not illegal to sell something that is used, new?

    9. Re:This is just now news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, I was a GameStop employee for 2 and a half years, and neither of the GameStops I worked at were allowed to take part in the "borrowing games" thing after my first few months of working there. The district managers cracked down on the practice and, for the most part, my managers were too afraid of losing their pathetic jobs to stand up.

      I'm sure my experience will probably be written off as a unique one, but customers should know that this isn't necessarily going on in every GameStop everywhere.

      Also, yes, working at GameStop is fucking terrible and nobody in their right mind should EVER do it.

    10. Re:This is just now news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a friend in college that worked at EB who would utilize the employee checkout, rip and burn the games to be played on his modded PS. Living next to that guy was great. He'd lend you just about any game you could think of.

    11. Re:This is just now news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has been going on for over 20 years. We did this back in the old Electronics Boutique days in the 80s. It wasn't just console games. It went on all the time even with PC games on floppy disk.

    12. Re:This is just now news? by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      The checkout policy is the price you pay for having specialty knowledge behind the register at minimum wage prices.

      A friend of mine works at Gamestop and they have a policy of "staff loans". While he does take advantage of this to play the latest and greatest titles, taking games home to play is basically a (unpaid) part of his job. He takes home titles, assesses them, and is able to give an honest opinion to anyone who comes up to the counter. The other employees do so as well, and the end result is, as you say, a lot of specialist knowledge behind the counter.

      I have often gone up to a game shop counter and asked, "What about $GAME_X?". I have variously been told a game is great or awful, fun or boring, worth it new, worth it used, etc ,etc. Sometimes, two people behind the counter will get into a disagreement over a particular with one arguing that the game is fantastic, and the other disparaging it. With the wages these guys get, this is not some company stunt. It's a real live critique from people who actually play game, and I appreciate getting it.

      You get clerks who play one console over the other. You get guys who play PC games. You get Guys who like/hate FPSes, RPGs, MMOs, RTSes, etc, etc, etc. When one clerk doesn't know about $GAME_X, he turns around to someone else who can usually tell you whether it's good or not. The best advice you get concerns the lesser known titles, the hidden gems that the mainstream has ignored but which turn out to be simply excellent games.

      Is my new game not new because someone has played it for a day or two? Do I actually care. When I was buying my PS3, the shop had a deal going where you got two free games. They were out of Resistance Fall of Man copies, so it was looking like I was going to get stuck with something like Madden NFL or Gundam. Then I was offered a used copy of Resistance in place of a new one. The disc was spotless, the manual was uncrumpled, the case was intact. I jumped at the offer.

      Software is software is software. As long as the storage medium has data integrity, I really couldn't care less who has used it before me. This is digital information. There is not going to be artifacts or slowdown in the game because someone else played it before me. The menus will not be worn or weathered, and my characters guns are not going to jam if I don't buy a pristine new copy. This is indeed, the very purpose of digital information. It can be copied an used infinitely without degradation.

      People who complain about these staff loans are probably the same kind of people who will buy gold HDMI cable so that they get a "better quality" digital signal. In other words, people who have no idea how computers, or computers game actually work.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    13. Re:This is just now news? by SailorSpork · · Score: 1

      As a former employee more recent than the ones in the above chain, I wanted to say that this policy has been in place even to this day. It was there when I was an employee 3 years ago, and when I go in and chat with the new guys, they say its the only reason they still work there. Our store manager had restricted it to used games only since he wasa bitch, but it was still something to keep us going. The "glow" of working around video games dies pretty quickly when you have do deal with:

      • People who trade in their entire collection of scratched up 5-10 year old games, and they need the money to make rent and get very angry when the game they paid $50-60 dollars a few years ago is now selling for less than $10 so trades in for $3-$5
      • Kids who have piles of sticky quarters and dimes they want you to count to see if it ads up to the new Pokemon, and you need to talk them down to an old $5 Game Boy Color Yu-Gi-Oh game
      • High school nerds who know more about games than you do since they have the time and money to play them all, and consider GameStop their haven and you their Diety/Best Friend/Spiritual Advisor/something else you don't want to be to them (most of the employees fall into this pool)
      • Parents who think this is like a used car lot and the the *nudge wink* " I know how this works, you can come down $15 on this, right?" stuff that corporate would sooner fire you than ask about the situation if you did.

      But it's not the check-out policy that bothered me about working there, it was that they tracked every employee's magazine/discount card subscriptions and the reservations they got. Didn't do corporate minimums? You didn't get hours to work. This would drive many employees to be incredibly pushy about it, which is what a lot of people refer to as their "horror stories" when going to GameStop. Just understand, their job was probably on the line.

    14. Re:This is just now news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I buy new games from Best Buy, Target, etc... When I want a used game I buy from gamestop where every game appears used regardless of price.

    15. Re:This is just now news? by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 1

      If it really bothers you, shop elsewhere. I certainly do, those fucking vultures won't ever get my money again.

      That's great advice and all, but it doesn't really address the issue. The fundamental problem is that fraud is taking place. Your advice really amounts to ostracism. Ostracism doesn't work very well basically ever. That's the reason why modern society doesn't merely ostracize murderers, rapists, etc. Monetary ostracism might be a good first step. But, it should be the prelude to criminal charges.

      If you do decide to shop there, use some common sense and check your disks for scratches before you leave the store. It's not that hard.

      I'd add, demand a discount and a guarantee of store return for cash for any defect detected. It's questionable if the original manufacturer will replace a used game, no matter how much the store promises that it's like new. And no or a fraudulent shrink wrap basically removes any possible collectibility value. There's also the point that having to check the disc and the risk of having to deal with the store again is a cost.

      But seriously, quit the whining about the "used sold as new" crap. The checkout policy is the price you pay for having specialty knowledge behind the register at minimum wage prices.

      Yep, where else do you have employees who have unpaid overtime (required to play hours of games on their time) and who are perfectly willing to commit fraud (shrink wrapping games like new so they can charge new prices). Regardless of if there is anything to whine about, the environment does sound like a haven for lawsuits and criminal charges. The only thing that distrubes me is that more people haven't served jail time.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    16. Re:This is just now news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, I worked for Funco before 2000, and we never checked any games out at all... because we just played them in the store, on the clock.

      Of course, if there was only one used memory card in the store (i.e. the one in the Playstation demo unit), it got sold even if it did have your FF7 save game on it. I had to beat the first disc of that game three times before I finished it.

      It's just not the same environment now.

    17. Re:This is just now news? by Megane · · Score: 1

      Which, funny enough, is just fine with them. Gamestop makes their money selling used games that they bought for 1/3 or less of what they're selling them for. They make a lot less margin on new games.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    18. Re:This is just now news? by RhinecatCowboy · · Score: 1

      In contrast, I'm a GameStop assistant manager NOW, and I get a 15% discount on everything in the store besides new hardware, make over $25K a year, and find my managers, colleagues, and overall work environment preferable to any job where I could have "used" my college degree.

      My store does NOT allow employees to check out new games, ever. Once they've been played, they're no longer new. We carefully open the packages for gutted merchandise, transfer the disks (with CD keys when applicable) to an envelope without touching the non-printed side of the disk, and then no one touches it again until it's sold. Everyone who works there is a gamer. We know what a new game is as opposed to a used one.

      No one is ever told or led to believe that a gutted copy is a sealed one, either via shrinkwrap or other means. There are several regular customers who will refuse to buy a gutted copy of a game, and that's more than fine--we'll even offer to hold the next one for them without gutting it.

      You can't judge a company with over 6,000 stores based on one single store. I'll be the first to admit that my store might be one of maybe 100 good ones in the whole company, but please, don't tar us all with the same brush. I'm sincerely sorry you worked for a shitty store.

  5. yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who cares? I mean, so what?

  6. Not a "new" problem.. by _hAZE_ · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm quite surprised that the rest of the world is just now being made aware of this practice. I worked for two competing shopping-mall chain video game stores in the mid-to-late 90's, and both of them had policies almost identical to this. The shrink-wrap machine in the back room made the fact that an item was "checked out" very simple to conceal from the customers.

    To be completely honest, I really don't care, as long as:

    - The materials are sold to me in a "new" condition
    - If it requires any sort of registration key, I better not ever find out it's already been registered

    Without this policy in place, I'm fairly certain a lot of video game stores would simply stop having employees; it's one of the best perks of working at one. Discounts are nice, but playing for free? That's even better.

    --

    Don Head
    UNIX/Linux Administrator
    1. Re:Not a "new" problem.. by cjfs · · Score: 1

      To be completely honest, I really don't care, as long as: - The materials are sold to me in a "new" condition - If it requires any sort of registration key, I better not ever find out it's already been registered

      And that's what it comes down to. Since these are console games the registration key shouldn't apply. If someone is that concerned about the condition, just take a look at the disc before buying. It's really a non-issue.

    2. Re:Not a "new" problem.. by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      It's really a non-issue.

      ...until they start pulling shit like this.

    3. Re:Not a "new" problem.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if the guy that borrowed the game, took a leak and didn't wash his hands?

      You will be handling sweaty balls when you touch the disc!

    4. Re:Not a "new" problem.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      College textbook publisher are pulling the same crap now too. They've made it so purchasing used books isn't worth it if the teacher requires you to take the quizzes online, because the single-use keys required to access them brings the total cost back up to new book prices...

  7. the game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Battletoads. Do they have it?

    1. Re:the game by tepples · · Score: 1

      Is this Battletoads? Not likely. The game was developed for a Nintendo console by a company that's now part of Microsoft, and by now, Nintendo and Microsoft are enemies in set-top consoles. (On the other hand, Microsoft still publishes on DS.)

    2. Re:the game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you outing yourself as a /v/irgin?

  8. Wow by Jimboscott · · Score: 1

    Now, I understand why my original copy of World Of Warcraft doesn't work !

    1. Re:Wow by kasmq1 · · Score: 1

      Game rape ? Second hand games? Impossibility to replay the game ? What is the point? If the game don't work you can replace it... so no harm no foul.

    2. Re:Wow by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      Except wasted time talking to either Blizzard's customer service or the store's or both. You lose time and they lose a customer (well, hopefully).

      That said, I reckon Blizzard would be far more helpful than any Gamestop employee.

  9. Better customer service if you've played by Wulfstan · · Score: 1

    Many years ago I worked at the Harvey Norman computer chain in Australia and the games guys often took games home at the weekend to check out. The reasoning was simple - if you've played a game and a customer wants advice on which game to buy you're in a position where you actually know what you're talking about rather than just staring at them blankly.

    This was before the days of the internet being widely available, but I think the policy still holds true. If you're buying a game at a marked up price from your local software mart then the staff there better know what they're selling - otherwise how can you justify the retail space and the markup?

    So far from being a scandal, I call this sensible business practice.

    --
    --- Nick, hard at work :->
    1. Re:Better customer service if you've played by williamhb · · Score: 3, Funny

      Many years ago I worked at the Harvey Norman computer chain in Australia and the games guys often took games home at the weekend to check out. The reasoning was simple - if you've played a game and a customer wants advice on which game to buy you're in a position where you actually know what you're talking about rather than just staring at them blankly. This was before the days of the internet being widely available, but I think the policy still holds true. If you're buying a game at a marked up price from your local software mart then the staff there better know what they're selling - otherwise how can you justify the retail space and the markup? So far from being a scandal, I call this sensible business practice.

      We do the same thing with Chup-A-Chup lollies. Give each flavour a bit of a lick, so the shop assistant can give knowledgeable advice about them, then wrap the lollies back up and sell them as new. After all, it'd be a waste of cash to actually set aside ones for the employees and not sell them. That'd just not be sensible business practice.

    2. Re:Better customer service if you've played by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So every automobile, lawnmower, mp3 player, and all other devices of every kind should be used and abused by the staff of the store for "informational" purposes? That is what your logic states. If they want to give their employees knowledge why is wrong for them to pay for it as a normal operating expense of any corporation. Anyone who supports gamestop is seriously flawed in the head.

  10. Well they always did say... by cjfs · · Score: 1

    ... that pre-played was the way to go. Now there's no difference at all!

    1. Re:Well they always did say... by mog007 · · Score: 1

      Except the 5-10 dollar discount for the used copy.

  11. Nothing new by jsimon12 · · Score: 1

    I worked as an Assistant Manager for Software ETC back in the early 1990's and "Employee Checkout" was policy back then. The article just reads like some disgruntled employee trying to create scandal.

  12. Next Job by dracocat · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Makes me want to work there part time, not get all upset about it.

  13. I believe the correct terminology is... by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

    "Like New" when something has been used like that. Am I correct?

    1. Re:I believe the correct terminology is... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      "Like"? Why, are some bits on the CD a wee bit worn out or what? Are some of the heros you could play a bit worn out and tired?

      Digital media are either good or bad. There is no wear and tear to the data itself. Either it works or it does not.

      I can see wear and tear at the medium level, where discs can get scratched, but the data itself is still in the same condition it was when the store person took it from the shelf and played it before you got it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:I believe the correct terminology is... by N1AK · · Score: 1

      Digital media are either good or bad.

      And something is either new or it isn't. Selling used goods as new regardless of condition is dishonest. There is absolutely no difference between them doing this, and them buying games back from customers and re-selling them as new (both have been used after all).

      What are you seriously suggesting, that Gamestop stop branding games as new or used, and instead analyse all disks for damage and all cases for wear and instead split there shop into "faultless" and "faulty"?

    3. Re:I believe the correct terminology is... by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

      What about the gray area between "new" and "used"? Sure, the gray area can be abused, but if it is true, that it is/was six days, as another poster mentioned, shouldn't something like that be counted as "new"?

      Or, better yet, label the game "like new", which doesn't mean new, but is good enough that it's literally, like new.

      Does anyone know the legal definition of "new"? Seriously.

      Does new mean unused? What if someone were to test drive a car at a car lot, although, the odometer should be proof enough of newness.

  14. Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Not saying I necessarily agree with the following suggestions but they seem like fairly clear ways for the games industry to fight back against Gamestop.
    • Shrinkwrap games and slap a holgraphic sticker on the wrap or on the case that must be broken. It would stop Gamestop or anybody else palming off a used game as new. Lots of games already have a holo sticker on the insert, so why not one on the whole box. Also insert a page in the manual telling owners to report stores if the seal was broken.
    • Send each store plenty of dummy case inserts for display to relieve stores of the bullshit excuse that the game was the "display model".
    • Use scratch cards. They work once and it's obvious if someone has already scratched the code off.
    • Use scratch cards even on multiplayer console games. The user can use it to unlock the base map pack or on first play. Employees can't borrow any game without using the code. Additionally Gamestop is screwed because second hand users don't get their map pack essentially crippling the game. GS would be forced to buy refresh codes, or the user would have to buy the pack online. Either way, the game company gets money from a second hand sale they wouldn't have otherwise.
    1. Re:Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're an advocate of game owners being unable to ever sell the game they purchased. Splendid.

    2. Re:Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great ideas... Unless there is anybody else you forgot to piss off?

    3. Re:Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure I agree with the last suggestion. When I have the option of buying a download copy of a game versus buying a disc copy, I always buy the disc copy, even if it costs slightly more than the download copy. Why? Because you can resell it on eBay after you're done with it.

      Surely, I'm not the only person who calculates the potential profit of resale once I'm done playing the game, and factors that into how much he or she is willing to pay for the game in the first place.

    4. Re:Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by A.+B3ttik · · Score: 1

      Throw in a couple of "Free, Test Copies" per shipment to allow Gamestop to hand out to their employees and I bet everyone would be happy.

    5. Re:Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As you mentioned, you don't necessarily agree with these measures, but they actually seemed like a fair system right up until the last bit. Holo stickers and "tamper evident" wrapping is all good and fine because used game buyers know that these features don't apply to them. It should have no impact on the used games market while keeping the new games market honest.

      Once we start getting into activations and crippling second-hand games, the issue gets really dicey. A system like that would destroy our rights under the Doctrine of First Sale. Sure, a used game buyer COULD go out and buy the rest of their game from the manufacturer, but who's to say that option will last forever? I don't even mean the company going belly-up, but maybe a few years down the road the game isn't profitable enough to continue the refresh codes, or maybe they kill it to remove competition for their new game. The game companies are already chomping at the bit to cripple second-hand console games, and some already have. We should not give them another justification to speed up the process.

      Tamper evident packs are a good idea, though.

    6. Re:Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by DrXym · · Score: 1

      What part of "Not saying I necessarily agree with the following suggestions but they seem like fairly clear ways for the games industry to fight back against Gamestop. " do you not understand?

    7. Re:Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      • Use scratch cards even on multiplayer console games. The user can use it to unlock the base map pack or on first play. Employees can't borrow any game without using the code. Additionally Gamestop is screwed because second hand users don't get their map pack essentially crippling the game. GS would be forced to buy refresh codes, or the user would have to buy the pack online. Either way, the game company gets money from a second hand sale they wouldn't have otherwise.

      OK, but if my console dies (most have certain colours-of-death) and I replace it with a new one, I'd still like my Map Pack please (without paying for it a second time).

    8. Re:Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by AnonymityCowardily · · Score: 1

      The games industry has no incentive at all to piss all over gamestop. They need each other, and gamestop's policies are in no way (atm) detrimental to the relationship.

    9. Re:Scratch cards and proper shrinkwrap by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Selling used goods as new sure would piss off the industry if they must shoulder the burden of returned items. Additionally, the second hand market sure as hell pisses off the industry. They see the likes of Gamestop reselling their games multiple times, and pocketing all the money. I'm quite certain they would be delighted if they could claw back a little revenue of their own from second hand sales.

  15. Why buy anything from Gamestop? by sethmeisterg · · Score: 1

    They have a horrible return policy, combined with this, why would anyone buy stuff there (seriously)? Just get yourself an Amazon Prime membership and order stuff from Amazon!

    1. Re:Why buy anything from Gamestop? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Normally my approach, but sometimes you just can't wait for shipping. Last weekend, I found myself unexpectedly having a free sunday afternoon. Since one day isn't enough to even get through the tutorial/opening cutscenes of RPGs these days, I went looking for a nice brainless game to play (I found it too) for a few hours.

      All the small game shops around here have gone out of business, so I ended up paying new price for an opened copy (sounds familiar...) of Onechanbara[0]. Bastards.

      [0] Mock all you like. Bikini Girl + Swords + killing 600-1200 zombies per level + caffeine = Win

    2. Re:Why buy anything from Gamestop? by Psymin · · Score: 1

      Why buy from GameStop? Because their prices are comparable to internet prices and they hire your local gamer buddies. Their return policy isn't that 'horrible'. Its smart. Giving gamers access to free rentals (essentially) as an incentive for them to gain product knowledge just makes sense. If you pwn the disk up, then you don't get to take them home anymore. Sure, with every system there can be problems. If you notice something that really bothers you, mention it to the employee or the manager and I'm sure they'll just give you a 'virgin' copy. Preorders are never used this way .. anyway .. I'm rambling. GameStop may have some odd policies, but Amazon .. seriously? You are on slashdot right? I dare you to start a pro-amazon thread and endure the flamewar :)

  16. In the UK... by djsmiley · · Score: 4, Informative

    In game they dont have any kind of check out procedure which I ever had the power to use - sometimes we got promo copies of games which would be handed out as prizes to staff and then the staff would share them, but they were mostly shit games and no one gave a crap (I got sega superstars tennis hahaha).

    From my friends, gamestation (which game now owns) DOES allow employees to check out disks, paying for them if they break it etc. But now all GAME and gamestation stores have a disk cleaning machine which will remove like 75% of scratches leaving the disk looking "as new".

    Both stores "gut" games and put real boxes onto the shop floor, along with inserts sent from H/O. Some inserts are crap/unreadable/wrong and so you sometimes need the real box for the customer to be able to see what they are really buying.

    However, even if we didn't gut games, i'd still say that about 5% are scratched IN the box, due to them falling loose during shipping etc. Luckly we can just disk clean them for free in that case and the customer is happy 99% of the time. If they kick off we might swap the disk for them for a brand new copy, but note it and if they return that too then we will refuse to return it again generally - all this is at managers disgression.

    I no longer work for game, but this is how it was up until about 2 months ago.

    --
    - http://www.milkme.co.uk
  17. Happens all the time by UnrefinedLayman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The same thing happened to me when Assassin's Creed was released for 360. On release day I did not pre-order and called ahead to make sure they had copies in the store. They assured me they did.

    When I got there and asked for it they said they didn't have it. I said I had just called and been told there were copies. The guy behind the counter turned to the guy next to him and said "Hey [co-worker], were you, uhhh..." and trailed off. He replied Lumberg-style with a "Yeeeahhhh, I was going to take it home... Naw, that's ok, sell it."

    I was all like what the fuck man, and asked them if it was an open box copy that had been taken home by employees and played. He said yeah. I asked if I would be charged full price. The guy said of course and looked at me like he was the confused one. The three other employees nearby were similarly non-plussed. "If there's anything wrong with it you can return it." ...just like I can with a new copy?

    I took the cash in my hand and put it away, said no thanks. There was another Gamestop on the way home that had it, nevermind the two Best Buys with obscene pallets of copies.

    It was a braindead move on the employees' parts and I'd hate to think the manager would approve of that going down in front of a customer. But that's what happens when you have a bunch of kids running the front of house, unsupervised and with a shrink wrapper, and it's no surprise it's happening everywhere.

    I treat the Gamestop sales counter like a casino chip-exchange. I watch every hand at every time, especially when they ask a co-worker to pull out a game. The kids back there do stupid, careless shit with your credit card/license/games/money, and they spend most of their free time dreaming up scams to get more money and more games. That's the business!

    No offense to any upstanding Slashdotters working at Gamestop. I'm clearly talking about your slovenly coworkers.

  18. Seal that breaks ... by gullevek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Every xbox 360 game I bought has a special sticker on top that is broken once it is opened. I doubt you could easily replace that. I have seen this on US versions, Asian (HK) Versions and Japanese Versions.

    So how can you fake that?

    --
    "Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
    1. Re:Seal that breaks ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They dont fake it. They have gutted copies on the shelf, and say its security and they have no choice. However in the back or under the counter they have sealed copies.

      Some people dont realize they get display copies, but they use them all near the front counter. These display copies never have backs, which is generally what the customer wants to see when they are browsing.

      I have gotten screwed by this before, never buy the last copy of a game(well, unsealed really), because if the store does keep track of the fact that x game is rented out, it is always the last copy they keep on hand. shelling out 36$ for a "new" DS game to come home and find out it has someone's completed save file on it, is more then aggravating.

      Never buy the game if its not sealed, I dont believe gamestops reseal games anymore.

    2. Re:Seal that breaks ... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      They don't even try. They just say "It's the display copy."

  19. It's true, I've had personal experience with this by RoCKeTKaT · · Score: 0

    They lied to me and said it was new. Too bad they failed to remove a rather large piece of cheese from the disk. Yes, you heard right, cheese. There was cheese on the disk and they told me it was new ! I naturally replied "Fuck you !" and left, never to return.

  20. It's ok, I did it myself by qaguy08 · · Score: 0

    Yeah this is way old news. Sometimes you could spot a bad re-shrink wrap job where the seem split apart. Also where I worked back then also had its own shrink wrap machine, and I would get games, install or copy the cd, then return the game for a refund or swap for another. I was like hey its unopened gimme a break. As long as the game worked, or a key was unused, etc, i didnt see a problem.

  21. Stamped CDs and DVDs have no dye to fade by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    No scratching or anything, just your run of the mill dye fade.

    Stamped CDs and DVDs have no "dye" to fade. Was the plastic still clear? (Use a bright light to see through the dark-purple PS1 disc plastic.) Did the laser in the console still read other discs? Was there rot or other damage close to around the edge?

    1. Re:Stamped CDs and DVDs have no dye to fade by Swizec · · Score: 0

      It's just that it may (or may not) have been a ripped and burned game. Those fade, much too soon.

      But hey, TPB to the rescue and I could still play the game regardless of the state the disc was in.

    2. Re:Stamped CDs and DVDs have no dye to fade by sexconker · · Score: 1

      LOL YOU GOT CAUGHT.

    3. Re:Stamped CDs and DVDs have no dye to fade by Swizec · · Score: 0

      It was still somewhat legal to rip games and sell them around here back then ;)

  22. Expected lifetime of media by tepples · · Score: 1

    Digital media are either good or bad. There is no wear and tear to the data itself. Either it works or it does not.

    Watch your tense: works != will work. Imagine this situation: Disc A has no wear. Disc B has some wear, but not enough to affect readability after error correction. Disc B will probably become unreadable first.

  23. Fraud! by shentino · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I think any game store who pulls this crap is committing FRAUD.

    For starters they are LYING.

    Anyone who knowingly sells a game that has been played is complicit and should be jailed.

    Sounds extreme? It is, and it should be. Trust is not something that should be taken lightly. It's a much smaller scale version of Enron. Dishonesty is so rampant everywhere, and when it rises to fraud, it must be punished.

    Oh, that's right. What about OEM limited warranty on quality? By selling it new, aren't you holding the vendor accountable for damage that might have been done by a store employee? I'm sure everyone's noticed in the back about Limited Warranty. Who honors that? The vendor, not the store. If employees damage goods that are later sold as new, and returned as defective, and then returned to the vendor for a wholesale refund, then the store is defrauding the vendor by sticking it with a fraudulent return, fraudulent because the defect was caused by the store.

    Also, there's another reason.

    If employees are allowed to front-run like this, they are also not held accountable to the same standards that regular customers are. If an employee checks out a game, damages it, and returns it to the shrinkwrap machine, then the unlucky customer that gets stuck buying it is pretty much SOL because he can't prove it wasn't him that broke it, let alone that it was the employee.

    I repeat, letting employees borrow new games, and then selling them as new, is fraud, with a capital F. It is fraud against the customer, and if the store returns defective products to the vendor, it is fraud against the vendor as well.

  24. I'm not suprised. It is GameStop after all. by SupremoMan · · Score: 1

    I have been boycotting GameStop for years. Ever since they sold a copy of a game I pre-ordered. In light of these new revelations, maybe they didn't "sell" it.

  25. It's not just game stores... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bookstores do it, too. At one independent bookstore that's long since gone out of business in Atlanta (Oxford Books), we were allowed to check out books, then put them back on the shelf to be sold as new. We were told not to read them in the bathtub, that kind of thing. Read a lot of books that way, actually.

  26. Car analogy time! by tomhudson · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Customer: This car isn't new!
    Salesturd: Sure it is!
    Customer: It has 10,000 miles on it!
    Salesturd: It's a display model. Don't worry about it. Same as new!

    Fact: The "demonstrator" cars you buy are actually used, and usually have a lot more mileage than they indicate - it's easier for the dealer to roll back the odometer on new cars than it was a couple of decades ago. $150 if you know the right person.

    How else do you think that long-term leased car that you brought back with 50,000 miles passes through Adesa a week later with "only" 28,000 miles on the clock? And did you think you sere getting a "special deal" when the dealer said he'd ignore the over-mileage charges if you leased another car?

    1. Re:Car analogy time! by INeededALogin · · Score: 1

      it's easier for the dealer to roll back the odometer

      and against the law. Also, from the wiki... cars today are using digital odometers which aren't as easy to rollback.

    2. Re:Car analogy time! by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      The wiki is wrong - digital odometers are the easiest things to roll back. MUCH easier than the old-style ones, which had a tendancy to "bounce" if you hit the dash after they were turned back. Just go to any border crossing where vehicles are being trans-shipped - they're adjusted from miles to kilometers or vice versa with nothing more complicated than a laptop. As for vehicles that aren't trans-shipped - I've seen a Jeep Cherokee go from 68,000 km to 20,000 km after a visit to "the shop" - the guy who does this from his home. Obviously, I don't approve - as far as I'm concerned, it's theft - but going digital made it easier, not harder, to cheat.

      Of course, they do it on the cheap, so that other computers on the car will have a discrepancy - but who checks ANY of the computers for tampering? Nobody - the dealer who buys to resell might suspect, but as long as he doesn't check, he can always claim "I didn't know."

      NEVER let the car dealer pick up your plates for you. A lot of people write their mileage on the back when trading in their car - the dealer doesn't want you to see the old reg, so he'll offer to pick up your new plates "as a convience to you." I saw an employee of Silver Star (BMW dealer) try to pick up a set of plates with a mileage declaration of 80,000 km, when the title said 135,000 km., so don't think that even BMWs are that hard to monkey with.

  27. This isn't news...been this way since before 1993 by haplo21112 · · Score: 1

    I was a manager of several Babbage's stores way back in the distant past. Babbage's was the company (along with Software etc after a merger) that Gamestop came from. All the way back then we were allowed to "check out" software. The rule at least then was that you could only do so if the software didn't require registration or keys to use. So pretty much no Microsoft software, but most other software and video games of the time were fair game.

    --
    Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
  28. Is it April 1st again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really don't understand why this is such a big deal.

    I work at a Gamestop now, and yes, we do check out new games periodically. Everyone in my store who does this takes great care in making sure the game remains pristine. No one uses any of the promo material (i.e. the map pack that came with Gears of War 2), and PC games with DRM are restricted from this practice entirely.

    In addition to the games being in new condition, you can look at the disk you're buying before you buy it. If you're not happy, ask for a different one, even a sealed one if we have one. Most people have figured this out, why haven't any of you who are complaining?

    Finally, our return policy is extremely lax. You have a problem with your game? Return it. I know I couldn't give a shit less whether it was actually defective or not, and neither could most of the employees I work with. We're caught in the middle of keeping corporate happy and keeping the spectrum of five year olds, functional adult gamers, parents, thieves, and those with a severe lack of hygiene happy. Its a difficult game to play sometimes, but we're usually willing to go out of our way to do it.

    Calling this a "scandal" is blowing things way out of proportion. Don't buy games at gamestop if you don't like the policy. No one will care.

  29. What does the law (or FTC guidelines) say? by dschuetz · · Score: 1

    It's not like people didn't already know (or guess) this. But I am curious what laws or FTC rules might apply to this. I frequently see modest "open box" price reductions for electronic items like TVs and such, and honestly. I'm not sure it's unreasonable to expect the same of software that is no longer in original, manufacturer-sealed state.

  30. God I wish Microage hadn't closed down... by slackbheep · · Score: 1

    I had to work through that "crappy teenager jobs" stage at McDonalds, Wal-Mart, and Westfair foods. It looked so promising at 12, when I noticed the till staff was using the work pc to play shadowrun on Genesis.

  31. Eh, whatever. by V50 · · Score: 1

    I wasn't aware of this, it's good info to know, but really no big deal. As long as the game is sold in a new condition, it's fine with me. Really, they have to do this so that employees can be knowledgeable on the products they sell.

    Anyway, from my experience, I've bought many games from Gamestop, both new and used. They've all be in fine condition, with most of the used games indistinguishable from a new copy.

  32. Re:This isn't news...been this way since before 19 by PegamooseG · · Score: 1

    Hello there fellow ex-Babbagarian. I worked there a long time ago in a city far, far away (Store 9... Which no longer exists)

    This is old news. And not just Babbage's and GameStop. I know of other software stores that have allowed this. The main reasoning behind it is so the employees can familiarize themselves with the products so that they are more informed when the customers have questions.

    I don't mind used software or display software, as long as the disc isn't all scratched up. It's not like a write-once form of media is going to catch a virus (as opposed to ye olde days of 3.5" floppies). The same sentiment goes towards DVDs.

    I think it would be a lot worse in other types of stores where employees could be trying out food or undies. 8(

  33. It's not that hard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All you have to do is pry the rest of the case far enough open to get the disc out - you can do it without taking the top sticker off. I asked to buy a new copy of a game at Game Crazy a number of years back and watched the employee pry the case open so that he could put the disc back in while the top sticker remained in place.

    I told him I wasn't getting a new game, which I had asked for and was going to be paying for, and he, of course, disagreed. Ended up leaving without buying anything after a five minute argument on the concept of the word "new".

    Between that and GameStop trying to screw my brother out of money by giving him a retroactive pay cut (and ignoring the government worker's calls about the illegality of it), I do most of my game purchasing (which is significant) at Amazon.

    1. Re:It's not that hard. by Megane · · Score: 1

      CD jewel case games are even easier. You just pop the hinges and flip the lid upwards.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  34. I'm in favor of it by ghostlibrary · · Score: 1

    > The checkout policy is the price you pay for having specialty knowledge behind the register at minimum wage prices.

    I rather expect the local GameStop employees to have played as many store copies as possible. I like my local shop-- there's the guy that knows RPGs, the girl that is up on DS titles, and the fat guy everyone ignores. It's like having 3 free reviewers who remember what kind of stuff I like. They've saved me from crap games (i.e. impulse buys I later find got lousy reviews) many a time. The store should comp them titles so they can answer my questions.

    Really, more businesses need to take a drug dealer approach-- know your product, know your customers, assume your customer needs _something_ and just make sure you sell them something that gets them to come back.

    --
    A.
  35. Re:This isn't news...been this way since before 19 by lunatick · · Score: 1

    I had a few friends that worked for Babages back in the early 90's They did the same all the time. Again the management wanted them to take them home and play them so they could advise customers on it.

    They had all the equipment in the back to reseal the games and CD's so no one would know.

    --
    The Lunatick, Carpe Corpus!
  36. Re:It's true, I've had personal experience with th by Zed0mega · · Score: 2, Funny

    So you got a bonus piece of cheese with your game and you're complaining!?

  37. Shock! by theangrypeon · · Score: 1

    I remember one time I went to a Gamestop to buy something. The guy at the front of the line was trying to return an xbox 360 that it turns out he didn't want, and wanted store credit back for it. The employee said he couldn't accept it and they got into a bit of an argument. The employee explained that the only thing he could do was replace it with another xbox if it was defective or accept it as a used trade in. The guy kept on complaining and then the employee went all high and mighty and said, "Look this has been opened, I can't take this back and sell it as 'new'" The guy did eventually manage to get store credit, but the employee there was pretty indignant about it.

    The guy next in line then asks for a new copy of Madden 08. The employee then proceed to get an opened copy of the game and then sells it to him at as a new copy. My jaw dropped at the hypocrisy of it all.

    I kind of wanted to call him out on it, but at that point I was already running late and just wanted to get the fuck out of there.

    But yeah, this was 2 years ago, so this is nothing new.

  38. Are u serious? by EvilIntelligence · · Score: 1

    Are they serious with this? Who cares? It's CD. Software. We're not talking about underwear people. Get over it! As long as the CD is not damaged or unplayable, then who really cares?

  39. Virgins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It took awhile for me to understand the fuss. For instance, when you buy a car, it's obviously been test-driven before you ever sat in it.

    Then the analogy hit me. Gamers think of their games as VIRGINS!

    Every normal guy wants to think his wife or gf was a virgin before he met her. I take it that these sad gamers feel the same way about their digital media.

    What a revelation.

  40. Corporate stopped this practice years ago... by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

    They are only allowed to check out used games over night now. Though yes, it was corporate policy to allow employees to check out display copies of the new gamea overnight.

    In addition to that, they NEED to put open empty boxes on the shelves because if they didn't, games would sprout legs and walk. When I worked there and PC games were still put on the floor with games in boxes, theft shrinkage on PC games was staggeringly high (somewhere in the ballpark of 20%).

    You people are getting all uppity, but I hate to tell you that to a degree all stores are like this. Do you think that most stores don't flex their return policies for employees?

    Oh and in this case, the policy existed so the employees can actually make recommendations to customers. Considering how little they get paid, it's not like they can play every game released by buying them.

    1. Re:Corporate stopped this practice years ago... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition to that, they NEED to put open empty boxes on the shelves because if they didn't, games would sprout legs and walk. When I worked there and PC games were still put on the floor with games in boxes, theft shrinkage on PC games was staggeringly high (somewhere in the ballpark of 20%).

      You're pretending that it isn't the employees stealing the stuff in the first place. 85+% of all retail shrinkage is estimated to be from employees. The gamestop near me sometimes has gutted PC boxes IN A PLASTIC HARD CASE. WTF is that about?

      Just keep the whole thing, factory sealed, behind the counter and leave one hard cased copyout, or photocopy the box and leave that out (via corporate, preferably high quality).

      Gamestop is a pawn shop that deals in video games, it is NOT a video game store where you buy new stuff.

    2. Re:Corporate stopped this practice years ago... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      I don't care if the can't afford them. I don't want some minimum wage jack-off's grubby finger prints and scratches all over my disc that is supposed to be new and that said jack-off won't let me return when I find out it's been ruined.

      Regarding theft, photocopy the damn box and put the paper out on the shelf or put the sealed copy in a case and chain it to the wall. Stores used to do this or put them behind glass. But I think they realised it's better for them to use the empty box tactic and con a lot of people by reselling software because no one knows any better when everything they sell is opened.

  41. Happens at other places too by EvilToiletPaper · · Score: 1

    I recently purchased littleBigPlanet from blockbuster, there wasn't a CD in the rack so I asked the sales clerk and she fished out a box that looked new at a glance.
    When I started opening it at home, I noticed the shrink wrap was pretty loose and didn't have the neat glued corners like other discs, it looked saran wrapped by an amateur.

    Furthermore a hinge on the box was broken, the circular springy bit in the center that holds the disc had a couple of teeth missing so the disc was rattling inside and the disc itself had 2 very visible, deep and long scratches.

    The store would not accept a return (package opened) or even admit they sold me a used disc for full price. I had quite a bit of argument with the store manager who kept insisting it was my fault.

    Lesson learned: Never buy from a brick and mortar store again, they'll nickel and dime you to death.

  42. UNSUBSCRIBE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wish to UNSUBSCRIBE from you PUBLICATION!!!

  43. How can people buy open copies as new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I once got into argument with GameStop employee because he was giving my "display" copy. I wanted a sealed copy. But he start giving me an attitude because I don't trust them and blah blah... I went to Walmart & bought sealed copy. And now I am glad I did. When I paying for new game I want new game which means sealed copy.

  44. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work at Gamestop NOW. I've never heard of this. At least not as a store policy. It's entirely possible a few stores do this, but those of us who follow the rules(which is most of us) just wait until a used copy is traded in and then we try it out. We have a rental policy with used crap, but new stuff we do not take out of the sleeve. We DO NOT take out PC games. They are only sold as new and thus we cannot use them.

    My guess is they interviewed a few bad employees. Not "bad" as in liars or people who hate Gamestop, but "bad" as in the kind of people who generally ignore the rules themselves and then get the fortune of being saddled with a boss who doesn't really care. I know(at least in Westchester, NY) that we can only rent out the used, and anyone caught doing that to new games gets fired.

    What sucks about this is the games ARE new, and we still get the hours of demands from customers that we shouldn't charge as much for the unsealed copies. And now stuff like this comes along, the three or four who read Kotaku and don't already buy used are gonna let this stupid rumor spread. Which is going to, in turn, lead to more motherly figures giving me the business about how they heard from their computer nerd children that Gamestop is lying to them. After all(in the public eye), if one store lies, all of them do.

    This probably won't change things much, but odds are the company is going to pull some very unhelpful shit now to ensure the appearance of compliance. After all, if you read that handbook through, Gamestop does not come off as fond of it's employees. Seriously, they all but write glowering emotes in the book.

    Which also reminds me, the reason I'm posting this anonymously is because if you publicly speak for Gamestop(positively or negatively), and are under the employ of Gamestop, then you will be fired. No questions, just the axe.

  45. Does this story get reposted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    every 3 to 6 months? I may be crazy, but I swear this story gets posted on various tech sites at least twice a year. I could swear I saw something just like this on Fark a couple months back.

  46. Electronics Boutique by Knara · · Score: 1

    EB did this since the late 80's / early 90's. If it's only been noticed right now, then is it really a problem?

    1. Re:Electronics Boutique by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      I think people are starting to complain more because it's getting harder to return software, prices are going up, if it's a PC game with certain DRM then it can really screw the customer and, from my experience, they're getting worse at it and the state of games that are left in plastic bags can be appalling in some shops. That and games are more often disc based rather than carts so on top of being more expensive, they're more delicate.

  47. Buy used games, and buy elsewhere! by tim_darklighter · · Score: 1

    I tend to buy games used anyway; that way they are cheaper and I know that scratches are probably there already. If they don't work, I can return them within a few days and get my money back or get another used copy.

    Gamestop and cohorts tend to be my last choice for new or used games, since "used" to them tends to mean $5 off of retail (which isn't much of a deal for a $50+ game that could be up to a year old). My alternative is a nice books/music/movies/games store called Hastings that tends to chop $10-20 off of retail for used games, especially games 6 months and older. Since they have a standard return policy for used games, I tend to look there for games before Gamestop and cohorts.

    In short, try to look for other game stores if possible if you don't like Gamestop et al.'s practices. It seems like the stores that sell games exclusively can be a pretty big rip-off if you're trying to get brand-new games. And as one poster says, Best Buy and other big-box stores tend to have full pallets of the same new games where Gamestop may only stock a few.

  48. This isn't limited to game stores... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My wife managed a bookstore for 10+ years, and they had an employee borrow policy as well.

    Anything that they received could be borrowed by an employee, as long as it was returned in like-new condition. If the employee dog-eared pages, or creased the spine on a paperback, etc., they bought it. If not, it was sold as new.

    Likewise, I've seen a number of music store chains that let you listen to any disc in the store before you buy it. They break the shrink-wrap, load it into a player, and you listen through headphones. When you're done, if you buy it great, if not, they re-shrinkwrap it, and it goes back on the shelf to be sold as new. This isn't the exact same situation, since it's not an employee loan program, but they're still selling "used" goods as new.

    Seriously people, I think you're overreacting. Playing a game (ignoring games with registration keys, which are a special case), listening to a CD, or reading a book does not devalue an item if no damage occurs.

  49. Ask yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would you let your employees actively and passionately educate themselves about your products to enhance their salesmanship (ie- making informed recommendations, answering specific questions) with no cost of training all under the guise of being an employment perk?

    If you enjoy GameStop's services and can overlook the fact that they're technically making an extra 10% on one game per title out of the total sales they make, I'd drop it. And hassling them at work or complaining to GameStop about it would suck one of the only joys that soulless automaton job was offering them. Don't punish these people more than their job already is, please.

    1. Re:Ask yourself by shentino · · Score: 1

      selling used games and saying they're new is FRAUD.

  50. Discount on the Gutted game by SpartacusJones · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When I bought Metal Gear 4 for the PS3 from a Gamestop in Austin all they had left was the gutted copy. I asked if there was a discount since it was opened and they gave me 10%. I thought that was reasonable.

    1. Re:Discount on the Gutted game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I bought Metal Gear 4 for the PS3 from a Gamestop in Austin all they had left was the gutted copy. I asked if there was a discount since it was opened and they gave me 10%. I thought that was reasonable.

      I used to be a senior game advisor at a store in Houston a few years back. Our store used to do lots of things like that. However, over time our District Managers and other higher ups found out about them and slowly forbid us from each of them. For example, the first store manager that worked there gave discounts to people that worked in the mall. Nothing big, like 10%. We used to get a TON of business from it. Same deal, corporate found out about it, put the kabosh on it.

  51. FUUUU---- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't news to me, I haven't been shopping at gamestop/eb games for many reasons. Firstly, they tend to gut and ruin boxes. I hate peeling off stickers from the boxes because I love to have a display of my game collection. Often times you need to use some type of fluid to get it off. Secondly, I had bad luck and got two "new" games with scratches on them. Third, I see no difference between pirating a game and purchasing it used. Either way, the developers aren't getting the money. That's why all my games with the exception of hard to find / old school games, are bought new. Yes, I've spent thousands on games =S

  52. Shocking! by wjousts · · Score: 2, Informative

    Record stores (some of you maybe old enough to remember such things) play the CDs in the store before people purchase them too! Don't really see the problem.

  53. Hardly a new practice. by Artifex · · Score: 1

    I worked at Babbage's (store #1! Northpark Mall, Dallas) in the early 90s, and it was required that all display copies of console games be gutted. The manager would sometimes let sales associates borrow contents, too (unless it was a title we kept running out of). Babbage's eventually became Gamestop.

    I never borrowed any games (I didn't have a current console, for one thing) but I did have a lot of fun with the shrink wrap machine. :) And yes, people did steal empty boxes from display sometimes.

    --
    Get off my launchpad!
  54. what a non-controversy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As long as the optical media is still in flawless condition the product is still effectively "new". The media does not degrade in any quantifiable fashion by being played in a console- you can't call it a "used" game if there is no evidence of use on the disc. If you want to get into semantics, you could call it "tested".. but the bottom line is that the product is in the exact same condition that it was when it arrived in the store before being "gutted".

    Having the shrinkwrap seal broken before you take possession of the product in no way changes the value or quality of the product as long as the return policy is still applicable.

    Anyone getting upset over this is merely playing devil's advocate.

  55. Selling used as new by Xian97 · · Score: 1

    I think if a store sells used games such as Gamestop does then they should not be allowed to open a display copy for any reason. Twice I have had issues with buying new games from them that had been opened. I bought my daughter a new DS game for Christmas. It was the last copy they had of that title and I remarked then about the case being opened and was told if they didn't remove the game it would get shoplifted. Upon playing it on Christmas day we found saved games from months before on the cartridge. I had paid for a new game and got a used one instead. Another time my son had bought a previously opened game that had 2 DVDs. We didn't know that at the time. A week or so later while playing he is prompted to insert disk 2 which was not in the package. We took it back to the store and they had the second disk still behind the counter. Both times they made good, swapping out the used game with a new one for the first incident and giving me the missing disk on the second, but Gamestop lost me as a customer. I was not compensated for having to make a return trip to the store due to their negligence. I now buy new games from Amazon and if I were to buy a used game it would be from Craigslist where I get a decent price, not $5 off full retail.

  56. You're a phony! by Shinu · · Score: 1

    A big, fat phony!

  57. This is news? by xda · · Score: 1

    Who cares...

    The DRM issue is sort of interesting but the bottom line is that if a situation ever occurred where a DRM game you just bought was unplayable because someone else had already activated it you could easily get the issue taken care of through the store or through the game developer.Sure it isn't right, but has it ever happened to you? Besides, soon enough all video games will most likely be sold/subscribed exclusively online.

    So what's gonna be on Slashdot tomorrow, McDonald's employees swapping toys in happy meals? I try not to give people who make approximately minimum wage a hard time about their jobs.

  58. Been going on for a very long time by hysterik · · Score: 1

    I used to work at Babbage's, which is the heritage of Gamestop. This was back around 1989-1992. We were allowed to check out software, return it and then shrink wrap it back up. They were still sold as new. At the time, I looked at it as a benefit of employment, and it also gave me an opportunity to gain some knowledge about what it was that we were selling. If a game was good, I could recommend it to a customer. If a game was bad, I might even dissuade a customer who was on the fence.

  59. Meh not a big deal by aceofspades1217 · · Score: 1

    If its so important to you than look at the DVD before you buy it. Besides, you can exchange the game within 30 days with another copy.

    1. Re:Meh not a big deal by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      What good is another copy that's all grubby because it's been taken out of it's shrink-wrapped case? The fact is someone is still paying the same price as someone else and getting something in an inferior state. It shouldn't be legal.

    2. Re:Meh not a big deal by aceofspades1217 · · Score: 1

      Well they are taken out of the case anyways to prevent theft. I am all for being angry and hating corporations like Microsoft and apple at times, but meh this really isn't too big of a deal. If you can't tell that its been used than no harm to you.

      If they scratch it up and crap than thats a different story.

    3. Re:Meh not a big deal by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      I'm not bothered about someone outside of the factory touching the game. That's no problem.

      My problem is generally display boxes are in worse shape than a sealed box and yes, in my experience, the discs usually aren't as clean as a disc from a sealed box. If you're lucky it's just finger prints but too often there is some level of scratching and nothing takes the joy out a purchase like wondering if the game will work when you get it home.

      Besides, if I can get something in a nice sealed package and, likely, for a lower price then why in the world would I pay for something that's open and in a less than perfect case for a higher cost?

      The wait is minimal and if you pre-order it you get it on launch day if not earlier in some instances.

    4. Re:Meh not a big deal by aceofspades1217 · · Score: 1

      Well personally I have never been a big fan of gamestop. Yea, your right, I wouldn't want to buy a game that has scratches on it.

  60. Ah, Memories by RoscoeChicken · · Score: 1

    I was "Mr. Shrinkwrap" at a couple of Egghead Software stores in the Tampa Bay area in the late 80s. Most of my day was spent reshrinking returned software and/or products the employees took home to try.

    If you purchased any productivity software from one of my stores worth more than $100, chances are you did not buy a package that was honestly "new". The dopey women who ran the local outlets were always taking car trunks full of stuff home to "evaluate". Fortunately, I was very good at my job.

    No one was less surprised than me when the chain folded.

  61. I don't buy games from retail if I can help it by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

    Seriously, what kind of people buy games from retail anymore?

    The price of games are increasing and you rarely get a sealed game. A lot of places only give you the knackered display box and a game form a plastic bag.

    Let's say for a minute that the employees don't play the games. Does it matter? You're paying $60/£45 for a game and you get a box that's been fingered by every nose picking mongoloid to walk through the shop and you get a disc that will often have finger prints or scratches on it. You may also be lucky to get a box full of price tag and promo stickers that, if you try to take them off, leave you with those lovely ugly sticker marks all over it.

    When you take it they'll almost certainly say they can't trust that you're not a thief because the fucking box is open.

    In the UK HMV and Game Station are the absolute worst for this even after Game bought up Game Station they don't use the same rules. Game isn't bad, usually you get a new sealed game unless it actually is the last one. Even then I don't think I should get a lesser product purely because I bought the last one.

    In the case of Game Station, I know they sell used games as new. I think with the advent of disc based games they forgot carts can save and I've bought a few GBA games from there that had save games on them. One game was completed. An HMV employee told me they do it to save space. I'm not sure how you save space by storing the box in a different location than it's contents.

    Some shops try to re-shrink-wrap but luckily Nintendo has their own custom shrink-wrap and you can catch them in the act.

    Unfortunately even if the government did something to stop them from selling unsealed game as new it wouldn't have much effect seeing how they're selling the latest used games at virtually the same price as their sealed counterparts. In fact, there was a particular DS game on shop.game.net that was more expensive if you bought it used as the new title was on sale. Clearly it was set up to lure people in and once the new versions ran out they get charged full priced for the used copies.

    So this is why I buy all my games from Play.com.