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Brazilian Pirates Hijack US Military Satellites

blantonl writes "Brazilians all over the country are using modified amateur radio equipment to communicate with each other using US Military communications satellites — effectively creating their own CB radio network on the backs of the US Military. Recent efforts to crack down have resulted in arrests of some of the users, however the behavior still continues today."

359 comments

  1. Wow by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's a lot of pirates.

    1. Re:Wow by x_IamSpartacus_x · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're not kidding. The FSM in all is noodley wisdom is cracking down on global warming. We keep seeing Pirate stories and we keep seeing stories showing how Global Warming isn't happening like this story yesterday.
      ALL HAIL FSM!

      ~Touched by His noodley appendage~

    2. Re:Wow by SQLGuru · · Score: 4, Funny

      See, this is why Pirates beat Ninjas. What story have you read talks about Brazillian Ninja's taking over satellites? Somalian Ninjas hijack cargo ships? None, that's how many.

    3. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you don't hear about the things ninjas do because ninjas are doing them...

    4. Re:Wow by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      That's because ninjas are invisible.

    5. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Pirates are only in the news because they're sloppy. Ninjas would have killed whoever found out before they found out then covered up their tracks. You obviously don't know anything about ninjas, you should go do some learnin' before you anger a ninja, I suggest here (realultimatepower.net) to get the real deal.

    6. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding. How many zeros is that?

    7. Re:Wow by aliquis · · Score: 1

      How do we know it's not the media trying to angle the news in the pirates favor?

    8. Re:Wow by Povno · · Score: 1

      You don't see it because ninja's have more honor than pirates.

      --
      sudo apt-get lost
    9. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If anyone knows Ninjas, it would be this guy...

      http://askaninja.com/ ;-)

    10. Re:Wow by stoicfaux · · Score: 5, Funny

      Excuse me? Have you not heard about the Bermuda Triangle, UFO abductions, or Income Tax? All the work of ninjas.

    11. Re:Wow by causality · · Score: 3, Informative

      Excuse me? Have you not heard about the Bermuda Triangle, UFO abductions, or Income Tax? All the work of ninjas.

      I was with you right up until "income tax." The income tax is proof that there is a Satan. An income tax is much more complex and labor-intensive than all other forms of taxation. It's also much more prone to cheating compared to excise or sales taxes. The only reason for having one is so that you can use carrot-and-stick methods to manipulate the population ("do something we like, get a tax credit; do something we don't like, pay more"). That's the only "benefit"; otherwise it is inferior in every way to all other forms of taxation.

      If the pirates support a national sales tax to replace the income tax, then I have to say they are better than the ninjas! That's too bad, because the Bermuda Triangle and UFO abductions were pretty good. Maybe the ninjas were framed and manipulative social engineering isn't really their fault!

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    12. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Heheh... Love this joke..


      Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing. He concludes by saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed."

      "OH NO!" the President exclaims. "That's terrible!"

      His staff sits stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the President sits, head in hands.

      Finally, the President looks up and asks, "How many is a brazillion?"

    13. Re:Wow by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's a lot of pirates.

      So now, we will refer to anyone who does anything we don't like as "pirates"?

      I guess they were getting tired of using "terrorists", "muslims" and "liberals" all the time.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno, those ninja's look like BAMF
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUu9SkBQcXw

    15. Re:Wow by Ragzouken · · Score: 2, Funny

      Pirate are in the news because they are man enough to take the blame. They don't care if the whole world knows what they are doing because they don't take crap from land lubber.

    16. Re:Wow by goofyspouse · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Is a brazillion more than a billion?

    17. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pirates might beat Ninjas but Navy Seals will always beat Pirates

    18. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a lot of pirates.

      ...how many are in a brazillion, anyway?

    19. Re:Wow by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was with you right up until "income tax." The income tax is proof that there is a Satan.

      Close. MONEY is proof there is a Satan. Income tax is proof that he has a sense of humour.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    20. Re:Wow by anothy · · Score: 4, Funny

      the income tax does nothing to prove Satan. giving part of your earnings to the community is an altruistic gesture, is found throughout human history, and may even be biologically wired into our brain, inherited from our ancestors.

      no, the IRS proves Satan.

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
    21. Re:Wow by Gordonjcp · · Score: 3, Informative

      So now, we will refer to anyone who does anything we don't like as "pirates"?

      Actually, it's been in common usage for people illegally using chunks of radio spectrum for decades.

    22. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      US Navy Seals are the closest thing the US has to ninjas:
      • have tools for seeing in the dark,
      • trained to move stealthily using available cover
      • trained to kill silently
      • have a strong code of honor

      So I would say that the recent confrontation between Navy Seals and pirates off the coast of Somalia is a strong counterexample to your claims about pirates being more powerful. Unless you're going to argue that Navy Seals are some unholy mixture of pirate and ninja. However I want to see what happens when you try to explain to some Seals that the rules of engagement and code of conduct are "more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules"

    23. Re:Wow by et764 · · Score: 1

      ...giving part of your earnings to the community is an altruistic gesture...

      I don't think it's altruism if I can be thrown in jail if I decide not to pay my taxes.

    24. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      many Brazilians, in fact. which is way more than a million.

    25. Re:Wow by dangby · · Score: 1

      Pirates tell everyone what they are doing. Ninjas leave no trace. Ninjas are behind the Bermuda Triangle... have been for centuries.

    26. Re:Wow by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      ...giving part of your earnings to the community is an altruistic gesture...

      I don't think it's altruism if I can be thrown in jail if I decide not to pay my taxes.

      . . . and then spending my tax dollars to arrest, prosecute and incarcerate you? Thanks a lot, buddy!

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    27. Re:Wow by EventHorizon_pc · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Reminds me of this joke....

      Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing. He concludes by saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed."

      "OH NO!" the President exclaims. "That's terrible!"

      His staff sits stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the President sits, head in hands.

      Finally, the President looks up and asks, "How many is a brazillion?"

    28. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL! After you click yes, go to the pic at the bottom of the page and read the comment. I think someone needs to go through puberty before he decides that he wants to be a ninja.

    29. Re:Wow by carlmenezes · · Score: 1

      You mean, that's a lot of intelligent pirates.

      --
      Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
    30. Re:Wow by blantonl · · Score: 4, Informative

      Come on folks, this is a serious news article :-)

      I've spent a tremendous amount of time listening to these bootleggers on the FLTSATCOM satellites. It is rather easy for them (the Brazilians and others) to modify a amateur radio or other transmitters to use these satellites.

      Basically, these satellites work by listening on one frequency (an uplink), and rebroadcasting what they hear over a specified frequency bandwidth to listeners (a downlink). The uplink and downlink frequencies are well known and published across many mediums - including Mil-Std documents which specify how terminals should interact with these satellites.

      I published a spectrum analysis article on this very topic here (shameless plus):

      http://radioreference.blogspot.com/2008/10/vhfuhf-spectrum-analysis-using-rf-space.html

      This method of communication is actually very secure for the US Military - since they rarely use clear voice on these transponders - meaning, they encrypt all transmissions to and from.

      Now, an open repeater, in Geospacial orbit, provides a set of repeaters for anyone to use... either the US military (which they still actively use) - or others who have equipment that can transmit to, and reiceve from.

      For those that are dismayed by this approach, understand that when this technology was developed, security by obscurity was a common approach even for military agencies. It wasn't feasible even 10 years ago to "authenticate" use access to open satellite transponders.

      --
      Lindsay Blanton
      RadioReference.com
    31. Re:Wow by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's been in common usage for people illegally using chunks of radio spectrum for decades.

      So if I call you a bivalve for 20 years that will turn you into a mollusk?

      See, this is the very definition of misuse of language: Try to call somebody something bad long enough to make that word stick. Like calling a peaceful tax protester a "teabagger" or a liberal, popular president a "fascist". Either way, if you care about clarity, it's just wrong.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    32. Re:Wow by joeme1 · · Score: 1

      No, in order for it to be a number it would have to be Brazilion. Kinda like Trillian is a person, Trillion is a number. Bajillian is a name, bajillion is a number. It's all about the last two letters.

    33. Re:Wow by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      See, this is the very definition of misuse of language: Try to call somebody something bad long enough to make that word stick.

      One early reference to it I can find is from the late 1950s, referring to the "pirate radio" stations broadcasting from boats in international waters. One of the earliest was Radio Mercur, a Danish station. Although Radio Caroline was probably the most famous pirate broadcaster, it didn't start until the mid-1960s.

      You've got people conducting highly illegal activity on boats out at sea. I think the term "pirate" fits very well there, and by extension back to land-based pirate stations.

    34. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ninja's have stolen thousands of ships and hijacked countless other things... including satalites. They just are reported "Missing" or "Destroyed"

    35. Re:Wow by bruceslog · · Score: 1

      "So now, we will refer to anyone who does anything we don't like as "pirates"?"

      Yeah, The Feds have overused the term 'terrorists" so much lately that it has little effect anymore.

      'Pirates' is the new 'terrorists'.

      --
      If it has tires or tits, it will give you problems.
    36. Re:Wow by Unipuma · · Score: 1

      Thank you for clearing up what is happening.

      From reading what you say, I fail to see how what the Brazilians are doing would be in any way illegal. Apparently, somebody launched a satellite over their head, which bounces back what they send to it. Sort of like a giant mirror.
      They can hardly complain that other people are using the stuff they shoot away over those people's head (and space still doesn't belong to anyone, as far as I know).

    37. Re:Wow by marcosdumay · · Score: 2, Informative

      "space still doesn't belong to anyone, as far as I know"

      Yep, but the satelite does belong to someone. Our law isn't such laise faire that says that if you have access to anything, you can use it. Also, the radio frequency can't be used by anybody that wants it, one needs proper government permission.

    38. Re:Wow by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      highly illegal

      We're talking about unauthorized use of part of the frequency spectrum. You make it sound like hostage-taking or torture or something equally horrible.

      I like what you refer to as "pirate radio". I used to live in the Bay Area and on the upper part of Manhattan Island, and the pirate stations were some of the best.

      Can you imagine someone declaring ownership over a portion of the electromagnetic spectrum?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    39. Re:Wow by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      Can you imagine someone declaring ownership over a portion of the electromagnetic spectrum?

      I'm actually pretty okay with people claiming ownership of parts of the electromagnetic spectrum. For instance, in this country we have these things called "mobile phones" which need a fair slab of frequencies to communicate with their base stations.

      I'm also pretty okay with the fact that I have several large slices of the electromagnetic spectrum to play with, from a couple of hundred kHz right up to tens of GHz, most of which no-one else is allowed onto.

  2. Amazing by The+Gunfreak · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I find it astounding that we don't have any real security in place to stop this. I mean how can the "most powerful" military in the world not stop Brazilian pirates from abusing our hardware. Russia or China maybe. But Brazil? And not an organized military either. Pirates.

    1. Re:Amazing by Steauengeglase · · Score: 2, Funny

      The street finds its own uses for things

    2. Re:Amazing by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1, Funny

      We can just train an army of sharpshooters and have them fire their guns straight up when the satellite passes over. Each one would be aiming for a different Brazilian pirate.

    3. Re:Amazing by AHuxley · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The USA thought long and hard about this.
      They needed to shift data around the world and sniff for it.
      Huge amounts, everyday, all day.
      The last thing that would help is a big slow computer up in space.
      Encrypt, bounce (in space), decrypt
      You can swap out the ground stations and systems if the Soviets got the info.
      Swapping out a satellite is a pain.
      Back in the cold war all the Soviets could do was read encrypted traffic.
      Anyone can bounce their own 'data' too.
      US 'training' staff and private 'consultants' will track your position as you are transmitting.
      Now your "arrested" ie your not up on condortel for the SNI to "find".

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Amazing by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 4, Funny

      The USA thought long and hard about this. They needed to shift data around the world and sniff for it. Huge amounts, everyday, all day. The last thing that would help is a big slow computer up in space. Encrypt, bounce (in space), decrypt You can swap out the ground stations and systems if the Soviets got the info. Swapping out a satellite is a pain. Back in the cold war all the Soviets could do was read encrypted traffic. Anyone can bounce their own 'data' too. US 'training' staff and private 'consultants' will track your position as you are transmitting. Now your "arrested" ie your not up on condortel for the SNI to "find".

      Burma-shave.

    5. Re:Amazing by flaming+error · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Brazil?
      What do you know of Brazilian techies? Ever worked with Brazilian engineers? Ever been to Brazil? I can assure you they are every bit as good as any Chinese, Russian, American, Indian, Brit, Czech, Japanese, or Pole I've worked with. Slashdotters may also be interested to know that Brazil has a very open-source, creative-commons sort of culture.

      > And not an organized military either. Pirates.
      It's likely that the recently reported Chinese cracks of US military systems were freelance.

    6. Re:Amazing by ajlitt · · Score: 3, Informative

      Translation:

      In the '70s it was more practical to have satellites retransmit a raw signal than to have them decrypt on receive and encrypt on transmit. This system is easily exploited. Where's my mind control signal deflector beanie?

    7. Re:Amazing by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          I had a nice talk with someone who actually knew a lot about it a while back. We'll let that part go with that. He confirmed yes, there are some channels like that. Old, unencrypted, analogue channels that are only used for low priority or unclassified information. Anything sensitive is encrypted on more secure channels.

          Think back in the day, not like modern security. Who could set up to broadcast up to a satellite, and have someone else with a receiver on the other end? Not too many folks. It's not like you would happen to have a high gain antenna and a parabolic reflector in your back yard. Now you can get at least the antenna part off of eBay for just a few bucks, and improvise the rest at home. :)

          I'm disappointed they didn't post more details. What frequencies do they reflect? What do you use to track the satellites? What polarization is required? How much broadcast power is required? What equipment is used?

          (ya, ya, I know some of the answers, it would have just been more interesting with a tutorial attached).

         

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    8. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 'techie' Brazilians I've dealt with work for IBM (from Sao Paulo) and admit that the only qualification to be an IBM Linux System Admin was the ability to speak (broken) English. No kidding.

    9. Re:Amazing by flaming+error · · Score: 1

      That's interesting. But it only indicates that IBM hired that level of people. Straight out of college I worked for a US defense subcontractor where maybe 4 out of 100 people had any technical competency that I could detect. Just like my experience didn't indicate the US defense department is incompetent, you shouldn't extrapolate the general competency of Brazil's technological base from your single data point.

    10. Re:Amazing by linhares · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The 'techie' Brazilians I've dealt with work for IBM (from Sao Paulo) and admit that the only qualification to be an IBM Linux System Admin was the ability to speak (broken) English. No kidding.

      Brazilian geek reporting for duty. I can attest that, in the midst of our gigantic stupidity, there are incredibly bright people around here. My PhD advisor came from MIT. My MSc Advisor came from Brown Univ. Publish and Perish is enormously fierce in our scientific establishment. We are stamping out more PhDs per year than Canada or Italy, for instance (but the average quality is lower, IMO). No surprise to see them hijacking US (or anyone else's satellites). That's probably trivial to do, given a little effort.

      There are some hotspots of smart people even around the samba-dancing banana republic crazies.

    11. Re:Amazing by indi0144 · · Score: 1

      What do you mean? That Brazilian pirates can't be better pirates than any other pirates, lets say, in the first world? Thats subtle racism sir, if you remember correctly it was a brazilian hacker who created the worst PR crash for Creative and the vista drivers. AFAIK Guerrillas around use pirated satellite comunication to stay in touch deep in the jungle.. oh wait.

      Wonder how many Quake 2 servers has the chinesse in the NSA servers, just for the lulz.

      but wait theres more...

      .. Thats no moon, neither a satellite.. OMG those are macacos doing stickam in your security satellitez

  3. 2 options by davidwr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It sounds like the feds have 2 good options:

    1) Shut down this capability. This may involve shutting down the birds.
    2) Find a way to charge for it

    Oh, and maybe a 3rd:
    3) Replace the satellites with something secure and sell the birds to someone else and let them worry about it.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:2 options by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      4) Anti-Radiation Missiles.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    2. Re:2 options by NivekEnterprises · · Score: 1

      FTFA:
      "Navy contractors are working on a next-generation system called Mobile User Objective System beginning in September 2009."

    3. Re:2 options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pfft. How do you know it's not a trap? Maybe this is what they WANTED to happen; maybe the satellites were designed to appear susceptible to hacking, and built to secretly relay what was sent through them to Maryland.

      Who knows?

    4. Re:2 options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont see how that can be done. I'm not sure again, what's new here. When I used to work for an ISP, it was normal that bad cabling, or simple misconfigurations cause satellite carriers to show up.

      At that time we had to either contact the satellite provider (they can't do anything but try to help you tracking or reassign frequencies), start a carrier with no data but higher power to interfere them, or simply try to decode what they were transmitting.

      Most of the times, through IF and bad connectors, it was possible to listen to FM or AM radio tranmissions.

      Transmitting using satellites only requires to know where to point your antenna to. Stealing bandwith, however, seems to be a better explanation of what they are doing, particularly, because those frequencies are government controlled.

    5. Re:2 options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason this can be done is the satellites are depreciated.

      The military doesn't pay income taxes so I don't know if they even need to track asset depreciation.

      If you meant to say 'deprecated' the statement is still not correct.
      The technology's deprecation is not the cause of this effect.

    6. Re:2 options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Transmitting using satellites only requires to know where to point your antenna to.

      Transmitting using satellites only requires that you know where to point your antenna.

      (you're welcome)

    7. Re:2 options by dontmakemethink · · Score: 1

      4) Spider the conversations for keywords and sell advertising to military contractors, which keeps the pirates fighting, giving the military more action, more is spent on guns and ammo, everyone's happy.

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    8. Re:2 options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So people have been arrested for using half-dead satellites that aren't being used for anything else? WTF?

    9. Re:2 options by Kagura · · Score: 1

      What am I welcome for?

      snicker.

    10. Re:2 options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about water boarding the Brazilians? Or is it surf boarding when in Brazil? I wonder what the CIA field manual says about this...

  4. Pirates by fisticuffs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What exactly are the "pirates" pirating? Does mere communications count as "piracy" now?

    1. Re:Pirates by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Informative

      What exactly are the "pirates" pirating? Does mere communications count as "piracy" now?

      They may be extending an older term referred to as Pirate Radio which referred to the 'piracy' of radio frequencies. But how can you steal a frequency? :)

      Keep in mind this term was around long before internet piracy and I'm guessing they are extending this concept to illicit satellite usage that is very much like a broadcasting communication technology. The military might not be needing these satellites to remain silent just like the FCC doesn't absolutely need silence on all non-allocated radio bands.

      Remember, almost every word has baggage before you pick it up and use it. Even worse is the fact that that baggage is very much subjective.

      --
      My work here is dung.
    2. Re:Pirates by causality · · Score: 3, Informative

      What exactly are the "pirates" pirating? Does mere communications count as "piracy" now?

      Never heard the term "pirate radio" before?

      I'll explain this in terms of the USA. To broadcast on many frequencies (such as those picked up by a standard AM/FM radio) with any appreciable transmission power (i.e. more than about 300 feet) you are supposed to have an FCC license for that frequency. Pirate radio is what they call it when someone makes a powerful unlicensed transmission on such a frequency. Usually this is done in order to get a message out, particularly a message that "the Establishment" (if you will) or the mainstream would find counter to its interests. Remember that arge media conglomerates such as Clearchannel tend to own most or all of the radio stations in a given area.

      So, this deal with the US military satellites involves a "pirate signal" in the sense of an unauthorized transmission.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    3. Re:Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Don't you know? Piracy is the new Terrorism!

      Pretty soon, car jackers and home invaders will be Pirates too, then shoplifters and yes, those who "Pirate" the air to communicate will be pirates as well. Of course, all will be held in detention centers for boarding and seizing cars, houses, goods, and vocal communication channels without their owners consent. Of course, in accordance with maritime law, they will be executed on the high seas.

      Why do you think they were clearing out gitmo? Terrorists? Old news. Pirates? New news!

      Oh my, my tinfoil hat seems to have a tear in it, time to go make a new one.

      /sarcasm

    4. Re:Pirates by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Pirates = people who use your HW but doesn't make any damage to it.
      Terrorists = people who blow up your HW. /sarcasm off

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    5. Re:Pirates by cgenman · · Score: 1

      Judging by the news in the past few weeks, the new piracy is... piracy.

    6. Re:Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      But how can you steal a frequency? :)

      By letting scallywags grabbing bandwidth from the landlubbers.

    7. Re:Pirates by Cowmonaut · · Score: 1

      You can "steal" anything scarce, and a radio frequency is technically a scarcity since you (typically) can only have "one" signal going on the frequency. If you have multiples you tend to get interference, bleeding, etc. Note that I'm using "one" a little figuratively here (multicast transmissions etc) since I'm too lazy at the moment to grab the exact sources to whore my Karma.

    8. Re:Pirates by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Aye, the pirate speaks, what exactly be th' gentleman o' fortunes piratin'? Does mere communications count as sweet trade now? Gar, Where can I find a bottle o'rum?

    9. Re:Pirates by nsayer · · Score: 1

      I'd call you a language pirate, but I believe you did do some damage when you used it.

    10. Re:Pirates by Krneki · · Score: 1

      I'm still learning to write in proper English. :/

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    11. Re:Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Terrorists = people who blow up your HW.

      Well, as long as it takes them with it, I guess that would be a fair trade.

    12. Re:Pirates by EdZ · · Score: 1

      Communications sat bandwidth could be said to be 'scarce', especially with the older sats that are being hijacked.

    13. Re:Pirates by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      So... this is what people did before they had Internet message boards to whine on?

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    14. Re:Pirates by JustOK · · Score: 1

      I'm still learning to write in proper English. :/

      Well, THAT's the problem. No one online would understand you if you learned proper English.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    15. Re:Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      e.g. "This is where we broadcast our pirate signal and hack into the Matrix!"

    16. Re:Pirates by Krneki · · Score: 1

      That's pants.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    17. Re:Pirates by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Sure, but the broadcasters are in Brazil, and the satellite is in space. Which Brazilian law are they actually breaking?

      I'm surprised this is actually illegal. It's not like they broke into the satellite, they are just using an open communications channel.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    18. Re:Pirates by QuantumRiff · · Score: 2, Informative

      Interesting.. the Wikipedia entry had this:

      In Europe, Denmark had the first known radio station in the world to broadcast commercial radio from a vessel in international waters without permission from the authorities in the country that it broadcast to (Denmark in this case). The station was named Radio Mercur and began transmission on August 2nd 1958. In the Danish newspapers it was soon called a "pirate radio".

      I never new how the name "Pirate Radio" got started. That makes sense...

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    19. Re:Pirates by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, that would be the BBS. Which at least limited the whining to "one at a time".

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    20. Re:Pirates by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Once they are sending and receiving to space they are beyond the scope of "Brazillian law". It is like international waters.

      Think about if you started a discussion group on the police or fire radio frequency. That is an open channel too, but obviously there needs to be some restrictions. Or if you left your front door unlocked, is it reasonable to assume everything in your house is fair game to be taken by anyone who opens it??

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    21. Re:Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're streaming live shemale pr0n to the military headquarters.

    22. Re:Pirates by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          But, what gave them the right to say "you can't use these frequencies". They're part of nature, so they can't be patented. Oh ya, our government is here to protect us, and say what we can and can't do.

          Gotta love the government.

          It's like driving (gotta include a car analogy). "It's a privilege, not a right". I can walk across the road, but for me to have my own motor vehicle, I have to pay a tribute to the government so I can drive MY vehicle on roads paid with MY tax dollars, and they can decide that I will continue paying taxes yet I won't be allowed to use it.

          So kids, remember, when you want to use a frequency for something, make sure you pay your tribute to the government for the "privilege" of doing it.

          Next thing you know, they'll start taxing people who's voices are too high. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    23. Re:Pirates by Deadstick · · Score: 3, Informative
      But how can you steal a frequency?

      By transmitting on it.

      rj

    24. Re:Pirates by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

      Reverse in lineage:

          BBS's

          Group printed newsletters

          Social clubs

          Town hall meetings

          Campfires

          Grunts in caves (i.e., caveman days)

          Ahhh, how we've progressed.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    25. Re:Pirates by linhares · · Score: 1

      They're breaking the law that says nature belongs to the US of A, I'd guess.

    26. Re:Pirates by He+who+knows · · Score: 1

      But how can you steal a frequency

      Have you seen 19.4 THz recently. Thought not.

    27. Re:Pirates by dontmakemethink · · Score: 1

      They're dodging long-distance charges, just like software pirates dodge paying for content. TelefÃnica and Embratel are threatening to sue the US military for cutting their grass.

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    28. Re:Pirates by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Sure but your examples are all about breaking local laws. Like you say, space is like international waters - no country has jurisdiction.

      So exactly what law is being broken?

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    29. Re:Pirates by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      "Which Brazilian law are they actually breaking? "

      The ones that say that you can't take over a satelite that belongs to someone else and that you can't use a frequency that is concessed to someone else.

    30. Re:Pirates by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Really? That's a Brazillian law?

      Are you sure you are not mixing that up with the American military attitude that they have jurisdiction over everyone on the planet regardless or citizenship?

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  5. Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by eldavojohn · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The article points out how the original hardware is susceptible now just based on current technology catching up to 1970's technology:

    Until then, the military is still using aging FLTSAT and UFO satellites -- and so are a lot of Brazilians. While the technology on the transponders still dates from the 1970s, radio sets back on Earth have only improved and plummeted in cost -- opening a cheap, efficient and illegal backdoor.

    It kind of reminds me of video game consoles. With the advent of computers, it became possible to emulate things like the NES and SNES on your computer as those consoles became outdated and your CPU could easily emulate the chipset in those devices. With the Dreamcast, it seemed like they still hadn't learned their lesson as there was little to no-copy-protection on the media that contained the game. It was only a matter of time before hardware caught up and Dreamcast emulators were available.

    Systems like the PS3 and Xbox360 have learned from this but it is arguable that soon (if not already) that will be cracked and emulated. The military should take note of this battle as now that communication with satellites has become cheap, they are facing the same cat and mouse game. So they have two options: either attempt to crush it politically (like Brazil's Operation Satellite) or live with it and prepare mitigation plans.

    Some might argue that if you give anyone enough time with something, human curiosity and boredom prevails against the highest standards.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by moon3 · · Score: 2, Funny

      still using aging FLTSAT and UFO satellites

      Those UFO satellites might be dated, but the technology on board sure isn't.

    2. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by Viol8 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, but even in the 70s they had the tech to build in at least some sort of encoding required before the channel would be opened for you even if it was just some sort of DTMF. Sure , people would still be able to hack it but they'd require extra equipment that perhaps wouldn't be available off the shelf in truck stops.

    3. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummmm...they have. They encrypt the entire process from DLL connection on up. The crypto has, what, probably a 100 life expectancy given Moore's law. Thanks for your input there sparky.

    4. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by cgenman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wait, what? Modern piracy of SNES and NES games didn't hurt their sales at all. Copy protection in those days was the fact that you couldn't make a copy of a cartridge (disk systems excluded). You made your money, and things worked. NES piracy was rampant by the time the N64 was ready, and they still didn't care enough to make a serious attempt to copy protect those cartridges.

      The industry was and is focused on *current* copy protection, as everyone is well aware that all systems will eventually be cracked or emulated. The Dreamcast was rather well protected against this for a while. It used GD-Roms, which could only be copied to smaller CDs if you removed most of the content. And even then CD's only ran through a loophole in a system to facilitate magazine demos. The PS1 and PS2 both required hardware hacks of increasing sophistication to get around copyprotection schemas.

      Really, the industry is so focused on selling a game next month, that they hardly think about ten years down the line when emulation catches up. Short-term protection is the name of the game.

    5. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by kabocox · · Score: 1

      Systems like the PS3 and Xbox360 have learned from this but it is arguable that soon (if not already) that will be cracked and emulated. The military should take note of this battle as now that communication with satellites has become cheap, they are facing the same cat and mouse game. So they have two options: either attempt to crush it politically (like Brazil's Operation Satellite) or live with it and prepare mitigation plan.

      Um, the point of military secured communications satellites are to provide only your side communication. You don't want to provide your enemies communications. Now, allies and neutrals are an entire another question. The thing is these are unauthorized users, the folks responsible for the satellites should treat all unauthorized use access as enemy agent access unless it is verified that it isn't.

      If they've got enough info on these users, and can just have the allied/neutral government lock 'em up, that's fine for today. If we are ever at war with that currently allied/neutral country, what makes you think that those individuals wouldn't suddenly be used to hack our satellites? The way that we should be trying to deal with this is to lock them out of satellites. Yes, it's a hard and constantly changing task, but that's just part of the project.

    6. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by tepples · · Score: 1

      Copy protection in those days was the fact that you couldn't make a copy of a cartridge (disk systems excluded).

      You could mass-produce counterfeit Game Paks for the Famicom if you had a way to fabricate printed circuit boards and ROM chips. That's part of why Nintendo put the 10NES lockout chip in the NES and in NES Game Paks.

    7. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by Artemis3 · · Score: 1

      Until then, the military is still using aging FLTSAT and UFO satellites -- and so are a lot of Brazilians. While the technology on the transponders still dates from the 1970s, radio sets back on Earth have only improved and plummeted in cost -- opening a cheap, efficient and illegal backdoor.

      Why would something like this be illegal to another country? The Brazilian gov should simply ignore this and let the Americans solve their own incompetence.
      I find this very cool and should simply be left alone until the birds die, by now the us military should be using updated and secure equipment anyway.

      As for video consoles using "security", it is this what they don't learn from. Security measures only cause trouble and increase costs to legit users, everyone else will bypass them. Just like DRM and backdoors in computer games. It all started with the NES (as opposed to the original Famicom) which had an "auth" chip which loved to fail on its own, causing even more repair trips until technicians got clever to bypass the thing by shorting 2 pins :) Then its been mods, mod chips, software mods, flip mods, use a regular DVD drive on your cube mod; you name it mods.. Total waste. Same with printer cartridges; satellite tv; rfid cards; etc. The "pirates" who fight and help us, and the corporations who stomp and entangle us.

      --
      Artix
      Your Linux, your init.
    8. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by Shawndeisi · · Score: 1

      I don't think that a game console (which users physically have and manufacturers can't patch/change after the fact) is anywhere near analogous to a satellite controlled by a single entity. The satellite could be upgraded software-wise if we cared, which apparently we don't. It's the Brazilian gov't intervening here, not the United States. The US gov't apparently has absolutely zero interest in what happens with those satellites.

    9. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      How much time would it take you to prevail against RSA encryption? How about AES? OTP?

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    10. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, they put that in to maintain a monopoly on the manufacture of cartridge and software for the NES. They didn't want just anybody to be able to sell their own software directly to customers without Nintendo getting a paid. It wasn't to stop piracy. It was to stop the legitimate writers of software from selling their work.

    11. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by d_p · · Score: 2, Informative

      Transponders of this type don't demodulate the uplink signal. They just convert to a different frequency and amplify the downlink signal. You could do the same thing with a C-band satellite, but the hardware to operate in 4-6GHz at >100W is expensive and you need a big reflector. At UHF, you can do it at lower power with cheap parts.

    12. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by Sun.Jedi · · Score: 1

      devil's advocate mode = ON

      The thing is these are unauthorized users, the folks responsible for the satellites should treat all unauthorized use access as enemy agent access unless it is verified that it isn't.

      How is it unauthorized if you shoot a pile of hardware into orbit where there is no real "ownership"? If these "folks responsible" can't (or won't) protect and secure it, tough shit.

    13. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      So essentially....

      They put out big open relays, then were surprized when people started relaying traffic through them. Does this make anyone else think of SMTP servers? They should be thankful there is a built in self-correcting problem if anyone decided to starty blasting advertising through there.
      Or better yet.... declare these things open to the damned public and replace them with something that isn't just a wide open relay!

      I mean come on... you can only bitch so much if you arn't willing to install access controls that will keep people out. If anyone is capable of this.... its the US Military. Frankly... its in that category of "If you leave your car running with the doors unlocked on a city street, how much sympathy should you expect from me when it gets stolen?" At least all they can do is tie up some bandwidth.... its not like they downed and recovered the satellite and now have it up on blocks by the side of the ocean with all the good parts stripped.

      I think the real message to the military here should be "take it as a lesson and cut your losses now". Cuz we can (and will) argue till we are red in the fingers about whether its right or wrong or people should be punished.... what you can't stop you can't stop. A little reality is worth a fuckton of theory. Reality states they are fucked by their own shortsightedness. Just replace this junk and move on.

      Maybe a better analogy... if you leave an old dead VW minibus on your lot by the road for a few years... its ugly sure, but so what. Now when a homeless guy moves in...and you have to kick him out... yes... its his bad. However, when its the 5th homeless guy this year... does it really matter whose bad it is?

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    14. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 1

      It kind of reminds me of video game consoles. With the advent of computers, it became possible to emulate things like the NES and SNES on your computer

      Not quite true. ENIAC was pretty crap for playing super mario brothers.

      sorry for the pendantry, I understand what you are getting at, but the use of the word "advent" is pretty fn funny.

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    15. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by domatic · · Score: 1

      Wait, what? Modern piracy of SNES and NES games didn't hurt their sales at all. Copy protection in those days was the fact that you couldn't make a copy of a cartridge (disk systems excluded). You made your money, and things worked. NES piracy was rampant by the time the N64 was ready, and they still didn't care enough to make a serious attempt to copy protect those cartridges.

      That may have been true but Ninty sure doesn't like it now. They make a few nickels selling old NES, SNES, and (I think) Genesis titles through the Wii Shop Channel. They run on DRMed emulators that are already installed on the console. But homebrew smartasses have ported SNES9X and other emulators to run on softmodded Wiis.

    16. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by nsaspook · · Score: 1

      Yes, but even in the 70s they had the tech to build in at least some sort of encoding required before the channel would be opened for you even if it was just some sort of DTMF. Sure , people would still be able to hack it but they'd require extra equipment that perhaps wouldn't be available off the shelf in truck stops.

      --
      In GOD we trust, all others we monitor.
    17. Re:Same Thing with Video Game Consoles by kabocox · · Score: 1

      devil's advocate mode = ON

      The thing is these are unauthorized users, the folks responsible for the satellites should treat all unauthorized use access as enemy agent access unless it is verified that it isn't.

      How is it unauthorized if you shoot a pile of hardware into orbit where there is no real "ownership"? If these "folks responsible" can't (or won't) protect and secure it, tough shit.

      O.k. if they aren't bothering to secure their stuff at all, it's their own fault. Now, if it was me, I'd aim one of those super secret death lasers at 'em and be done with the problem. Oh, it's a good thing we don't have any of them... we'd find out that's totally unsecured as well. Actually, it sounded like they were using legal methods to go after the folks that they IDed as hacking into their orbiting piece of hardware. So o.k. they may not have secured it IT wise, but they've successfully used the legal system to some what secure it against only those shown to be hacking into it. Let's be honest, the only secured most folks would consider is if it had physical or energy beams shooting back for unauthorized access.

      The thing is supposed to be a military piece of hardware. I'd think that they'd have those things very locked down. Anything incoming from unauthorized users here would be physically traced back as an exercise. You know one day enemy troops would be doing this. You might as well get your side used to IDing and removing unauthorized users. O.k. I'm assuming basic abilities to trace back and ID IT threats to the military. I may be overestimating their admins.

  6. Crazy by TinBromide · · Score: 1

    It'd be interesting to see how they did it, I'd love to be able to try it out, except i suspect that all I might hear would be Portuguese and the sound of black helicopters swooping in...

    --
    Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
    1. Re:Crazy by the+coose · · Score: 4, Informative

      One standard amateur VHF transceiver, one frequency doubling circuit, one reasonably high gain antenna. And possibly some satellite tracking software. All easily available.

    2. Re:Crazy by alen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      forgot the frequencies, but you should be able to find them by googling. you just need something that can transmit and receive on those frequencies.

      back when i was in korea we used to pick up ABC and a few other TV stations with Army FM radios because they supported a few civilian frequencies.

      didn't work in europe because over there their freqs end with an even number, in the US they end with an odd number. look at any radio station and the freq will be an odd number in the US

    3. Re:Crazy by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Based on the description in the article, I'm guessing the sats in question use linear transponders similar to many of the AMSAT Oscar (AO) satellites.

      http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/information/faqs/langdon.php has info on some of the AMSAT satellites.

      It sounds like the security of the "as designed" military system was implemented at the endpoint radios with no satellite involvement. For 1970s satellites this makes sense - keep the satellite (the REALLY expensive part) simple, unfortunately it does make the system susceptible to illicit use and jamming.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    4. Re:Crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah really, maybe they should require a license for those ham rigs eh? '73

    5. Re:Crazy by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Screw that, get the right triband radio and unlock it, tune it for the band desired.

      I can mod a current alinco in 20 minutes to do this.

      It's not hard, nor is it rocket science.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:Crazy by yabos · · Score: 1

      You can buy all the ham gear you want off the internet without proving you have a license. You only get in trouble if you get caught using it without a license.

    7. Re:Crazy by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      unfortunately it does make the system susceptible to illicit use and jamming.

      Also, you're essentially providing your enemy with free satcomm service. How generous.

    8. Re:Crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love STK and Heavensabove.com

    9. Re:Crazy by chrisjwray · · Score: 1

      BBC Radio 1 98.1FM
      This is european, how odd???

    10. Re:Crazy by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      IIRC you only need a license to transmit right? You can legally tune in an receive as much as you want without any licensing requirements. Sounds like if he was just wanting to listen in on the satellite that would be all that was necessary.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    11. Re:Crazy by yabos · · Score: 1

      Most likely. You can buy scanners legally and listen to almost everything except cellular frequencies.

    12. Re:Crazy by Muad'Dave · · Score: 2, Informative

      See http://www.uhf-satcom.com./ They even have sound samples of the pirates in action.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    13. Re:Crazy by Starteck81 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm licensed for the HAM General class. The answer is yes, you can use a HAM radio with out a license as long as you don't transmit. In case of an emergency you don't even have to be licensed transmit to obtain help.

      --
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed H
    14. Re:Crazy by Nethead · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing the 20 minutes includes warm up time for the soldering iron. I didn't even have to crack the case on my Yaesu VX-5 to "MARS" it.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    15. Re:Crazy by x102output · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing the 20 minutes includes warm up time for the soldering iron. I didn't even have to crack the case on my Yaesu VX-5 to "MARS" it.

      or you can just pop the cover in back of the battery and de-solder the two pins (the vx-5). General Receive in 1 minute!

    16. Re:Crazy by Sique · · Score: 1

      One you can easily monitor and pinpoint to the sources. Call it a Danaian gift!

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
  7. Brazilian's annoying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    You thought Brazillians were annoying on IRC. This has got to be worse.

    1. Re:Brazilian's annoying by atomicthumbs · · Score: 0, Troll

      jejejeje

      --
      http://pinopsida.com
  8. what's with the !pirates tag? by Animaether · · Score: 5, Insightful

    read up, whoever tagged this story with "!pirates"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_radio

    piracy has widespread meanings, from the somali crazies type pirates to software/music/movie/etc. pirates to pirate radio communication.

    just like hacker vs cracker, that battle was 'lost' many decades ago, probably before you were even born.

    1. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes but "pirate radio" is a term that is used to refer to a "rogue" person broadcasting standard radio programming... on someone else's frequency.

      If they broadcast in an open, unassigned frequency it's not pirate radio, but guerrilla radio.

    2. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you miss the part where they are using "someone else's" US Military Satellites?

      Satellite Piracy.

    3. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Unless Brazil has laws against doing that, it's legal in Brazil. Doesn't matter what the US military thinks.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    4. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is you end up grouping different things together (as aside, this is major problem in all human languages -- but it is so much worse in English!).

      Like when you give soft penalties to killers or when you incarcerate a fellow because he copied three times.

      Language, it has been proved, influences mind, so using the wrong word can make one act like an idiot.

      Brazilians, and I can say for I am one, are 100% fools but they don't hate anyone (we have even a law against prejudice), so this is like the US Mil left its trucks on the street and now complain that Brazilian dudes are taking their gfs for a ride.

      However stupid Brazilians may look, I don't think highly of US folks (or Russian or Chinese dudes BTW).

      It's like a school bully who left an iron bar laying on the ground and discover some jerks used it to play baseball.

      Please find a better hiding place next time. And BTW thank us for not being your enemy. Heck, someone here might even send an email to US Mil and tell: "Thanks for the ride and btw, sattelite 1234 is one degree off-route, in case you didn't know it."

      And to the guy who said we're lame, well, maybe, but we got the hottest girls on Earth. Doesn't make you feel doubly bad?

      ROFL!

    5. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by Myrimos · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unless Brazil has laws against doing that, it's legal in Brazil. Doesn't matter what the US military thinks.

      I honestly can't remember a time when the US government ever thought that way.

      --
      Internet scofflaw
    6. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by Nitage · · Score: 1

      It also is illegal in Brazil.

    7. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by nsayer · · Score: 1

      Unless Brazil has laws against doing that, it's legal in Brazil.

      Thank you, Captain Obvious. In fact, if you read TFA, you'll see that it is illegal in Brazil, and people are being fined and jailed when caught.

    8. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by bill_kress · · Score: 1

      Until I read your post, I was trying to figure out how people who were hijacking ships were stealing our satellites to coordinate their efforts.

      Funny, this is the first time I've had a word re-take it's original meaning!

    9. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          During the cold war, if American civilians "borrowed" unused frequencies on Soviet communications satellites, they'd be patriots.

          It's amazing how things change in just a few short years.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    10. Re:what's with the !pirates tag? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      just like hacker vs cracker, that battle was 'lost' many decades ago, probably before you were even born.

      Probably before his great grandparents were born - the usage of the term 'pirate' (in reference to copyright violations) goes back to the early 1800's.

  9. Back in the day.... by Subgenius · · Score: 5, Informative

    I remember when those birds used to pickup terrestrial FM stations. You could listen to the downlink 'in the clear.' This use of military satellites goes back to, at least, 1978.

    --
    Toil is Stupid. Don't be Stupid.
    1. Re:Back in the day.... by spydabyte · · Score: 1

      Now the military contracts all of their hardware (satellites) to private contractors.

  10. It's called pirate radio by langelgjm · · Score: 5, Informative

    Bad geek! It's called Pirate radio, and it's been around longer than the Pirate bay!

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  11. not that big a deal by alen · · Score: 1

    a lot of channels are open to everyone and not encrypted due to the need for the ability for ships in trouble to call for help over an open channel

    these are just your regular frequencies and not anything special. for the encrypted channels you need the key to communicate.

    1. Re:not that big a deal by TinBromide · · Score: 1

      I'm not familiar with ship to shore and ship to ship communications, but do ships call for help by bouncing signals off of US military satellites? I know that GPS satellites were originally military so there is a precedent for deriving benefit from military satellites.

      Its a big deal because the birds are the sole property of the US Navy and they don't like people playing with their toys without permission.

      That being said, the satellites are a boon to illegal activity (focus of the article. Lets ignore casual hobbyists, mainstream media has been doing that for years. ref: "Hacker"). If a drug cartel can gain the long reach of communication via our birds, what about the big scary straw-men, like terrorists, communists, and liberals? All of them can communicate via long distance chatter, add encoding into the mix and the US loses the ability to eavesdrop.

      In war, being able to communicate effectively may be just as important as those little metal objects that come flying out of guns. Why give the other side that ammo for free?

      --
      Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
    2. Re:not that big a deal by CraftyJack · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ships call for help using a 406 MHz EPIRB. The signal is picked up by the COSPAS-SARSAT satellite network and relayed to a local SAR station. The 406 MHZ beacons are a big improvement over the old 121.5 and 243 MHz beacons, as they support identification and GPS data. The old beacons basically just scream "Help!".

  12. The ecologists were right. by Viol8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You really can hear rare birds in the rainforest!

  13. 40 year old tech? by DomNF15 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With defense appropriated funds accounting for a large chunk of the USA's annual budget, you'd think they could use something newer than 1970's era technology for long range com...wouldn't the time/money/resources spent on busting the "pirates" be better spent on a new (secure) system?

    1. Re:40 year old tech? by GweeDo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We are getting ready to go back to the Moon on 60's era technology...why should the military be any differnet?

    2. Re:40 year old tech? by Shawndeisi · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think you missed the part where the United States is not the government cracking down on the pirates.

    3. Re:40 year old tech? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      wouldn't the time/money/resources spent on busting the "pirates" be better spent on a new (secure) system?

      I hate this method of thinking. No. there is a cost benefit ratio to work out. You have to spend billions to develop and launch a few satellites into orbit. (well, millions, plus contractor's "government discount of negative 300%") The communications themselves are not compromised, since the encryption happens at the endpoints of the conversation.

      That is alot of money if "pirates" are hogging a small number of your available channels.
      Plus, by not having a "secure" system, you can simply and cheaply relay your signals, for example, a small hand held radio, that can reach the ship out at see a mile or so, which then amplifies the signal to the satellite, which then bounces it to the US.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    4. Re:40 year old tech? by DomNF15 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think you missed the part where the FCC busted the guy from New Jersey: "In February of last year, FCC investigators used a mobile direction-finding vehicle to trace rogue transmissions to a Brazilian immigrant in New Jersey." While the focus of the article is the abuse in Brazil, I'm sure it's happening in the USA (evidenced by above quote) as well as other countries.

    5. Re:40 year old tech? by Crispix · · Score: 1

      The article says that these satellites are rarely used right now, and a full replacement system is coming online in 2009. Frankly, why bother to crack down when the problem is going to solve itself in a few months? And why crack down now when the problem has been going on for so long?

      It will be interesting to see if the US shuts down these satellites entirely when the time comes, or leaves them on and operational and open to piracy. My guess is they will waste the budget money and keep them online far too long.

    6. Re:40 year old tech? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      My guess is they will waste the budget money and keep them online far too long.

      What budget money? If I'm not mistaken they're solar powered and self-contained.

      It costs (a small amount of) money - mainly in the form of people and equipment time that could be used for better things - to make the decision and send the signal to turn them off (and maybe a lot to provide replacement service for any authorized usage they still support). It cost nothing to leave them on until they fail on their own or run out of station-keeping fuel and drift off to somewhere where they'll interfere with something else and NEED to be turned off, or until their "real estate" in orbit and radio channels is needed for another satellite.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    7. Re:40 year old tech? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      With defense appropriated funds accounting for a large chunk of the USA's annual budget, you'd think they could use something newer than 1970's era technology for long range com.

      Believe it or not, but when the military spends billions of dollars on something - they do try and get the maximum return on the taxpayers dollars. With thousands of transmitting and receiving stations, all the procedures for communications, etc... etc... There has to be a damn good reason to completely upgrade - 'woah, shiny' simply isn't enough.
       
      That being said, these (FLTSATCOM) birds are already in the process of being replaced and are essentially being used in an 'end-of-life' mode. They're their, their paid for, so they'll be used until the constellation degrades to a point where it is no longer useful. Tactical communications have already been shifted to the follow on (UFO) constellation, and day-to-day communications are in the process of being shifted over.
       
      TFA (as is usual with journalists) over dramatizes the situation considerably.

  14. Re:Pirates? by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    thousands of Brazilians

    Trazilians, you mean, surely.

  15. Listening to Pirate Radio... by tekrat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Costs a buck an ear!

    HAHAHAHAHAH

    I kill me.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:Listening to Pirate Radio... by eric2hill · · Score: 1

      I kill me.

      I wish you would. :)

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
      LOADING...
      READY.
      RUN
    2. Re:Listening to Pirate Radio... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please do it faster.

    3. Re:Listening to Pirate Radio... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fail at puns. I replace words automatically in my head. Somehow "Costs one dollar per ear" just isn't as funny.

    4. Re:Listening to Pirate Radio... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As in Pirates! Ha! Yes!

    5. Re:Listening to Pirate Radio... by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      I didn't realize there was a pun until I read your post.

  16. An even easier option... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...would be to give the crews of these satellites some weapons to fend off the pirates.

    1. Re:An even easier option... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a bit OT but interesting to note that (as far as we know) Russia is the only country ever to arm a satellite. One of their military space stations (Almaz?) had a cannon which apparently test fired, destroying another satellite.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  17. No, just old by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 5, Informative

    These are old "bent pipe" FLTSATCOM birds from the 1980s. The transponder tech dates to the 1970s. It's all going to be superseded by the Mobile User Objective System very soon now, so it might even be a good idea to just sell Brazil the old system. Well, assuming the GEO slots aren't needed.

    1. Re:No, just old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who says they are interested in buying?

    2. Re:No, just old by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Not me. I just suggested it as a possibility.

  18. Brazilian? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Yes, they are Brazilian. They have full waxing.. including their peg-legs.

  19. Ninja by evilkasper · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ninjas don't leave evidence nor any other trace , kinda part of being a ninja. See if a Ninja hijacked a ship they'd also erase all traces of its existence; yes they are very thorough. Then after they were done with that they'd whip out an electric guitar and rock hard. (all my assumptions are based of 80's Ninja movies)

    1. Re:Ninja by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      A particularly cunning ninja would plant evidence that made it look like pirates performed a particular deed. You know, things like parrot droppings on the floor, and spraying walls with "arghhh, me 'arties".

    2. Re:Ninja by Kozz · · Score: 1

      I'm holding out for the Chuck Norris comparison.

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    3. Re:Ninja by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello!!! They're NINJAS. That means you can't see them or hear them. Even news about them vanish.

    4. Re:Ninja by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your arguments concerning the awesomeness of ninjas are as empty as those concerning god.

    5. Re:Ninja by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          No, no, that's the NSA that removes all traces that the ship or crew ever existed. Ninjas swoop in silently, make a bloody mess of their target, play air guitar, and disappear into the night. :)

          Now, a battle, Ninjas vs the NSA.. That'd be interesting.

          The Ninjas swoop in, make a bloody mess, then the NSA disappears the ship and crew.

          How would the NSA make a ship and crew (and Ninja remains) disappear? It is not for us to ask about their mysterious ways, we just accept that they do it well. That's what black ops budgets are for. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    6. Re:Ninja by thhamm · · Score: 3, Funny

      chuck norris invented those satellites in the first place, and hurled them into space with his bare hands!

    7. Re:Ninja by idontgno · · Score: 1

      There is no centrifugal force; there is no centripetal force; there is no free-fall.

      Those satellites remain up there because they rightly fear returning to Chuck Norris.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    8. Re:Ninja by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ninjas took out the Ozone layer. See, we don't know where it went, or how, it's just gone. Ninjas.

    9. Re:Ninja by thhamm · · Score: 1

      that's why it is theoretically possible to travel faster than light. but definitely not faster than chuck norris!

    10. Re:Ninja by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The Ninjas swoop in, make a bloody mess, then the NSA disappears

      Now, can anyone STILL claim pirates are cooler?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:Ninja by el_gordo101 · · Score: 1

      Apparently This guy needs some more Ninja lessons!

      --
      TODO: Insert witty sig
    12. Re:Ninja by ekimminau · · Score: 1

      Ass opposed to a cunning linguist who would just talk you into believing it never happened.

      --
      Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
    13. Re:Ninja by Bugs42 · · Score: 1

      Only on /. would that get modded informative. I love the intertubes.

      --
      Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
    14. Re:Ninja by eleuthero · · Score: 1

      This is troubling. Since God exists, it would seem that your approach suggests there are some really awesome, satellite-stealing (or whatever) ninjas out there. ;)

    15. Re:Ninja by findoutmoretoday · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but after removing any trace Ninjas can't help boasting.  That's why there are so many Ninja movies out there

    16. Re:Ninja by DinDaddy · · Score: 1

      So he's talking behind your back?

    17. Re:Ninja by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "A particularly cunning ninja would plant evidence that made it look like pirates performed a particular deed. You know, things like parrot droppings on the floor, and spraying walls with "arghhh, me 'arties"."

      Much like recent pirates, I figure that ninjas experiencing accurate head shots, wouldn't be doing much but laying on the floor twitching and bleeding.

      :)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    18. Re:Ninja by david.given · · Score: 1

      Ninjas don't leave evidence nor any other trace...

      But if Ninjas cannot be detected, then their existence can be neither proven nor disproven, right? Therefore whether Ninjas exist or not is purely an article of faith; there is no actual evidence (by definition, since the Ninjas removed it all).

      ...although --- the presence of Ninjas do form a intriguing hypothesis for the Dark Matter puzzle. Matter that is so undetectable that it can only be detected by its absence... it's all beginning to make sense now...

      By His Noodly Appendage! The LHC --- they're trying to find the Ninja Particle! We must stop them, or else it'll flip out and kill everyone!

    19. Re:Ninja by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      chuck norris invented those satellites in the first place, and hurled them into space with his bare hands!

      Oh, not his hands...

  20. Wow! by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    This makes me want to run out and buy some new HAM gear so I can talk for free to Brazilian bikini models! "Tu amore!"

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Wow! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Funny

      This makes me want to run out and buy some new HAM gear so I can talk for free to Brazilian bikini models! "Tu amore!"

      If you would have bothered to RTFA, you would have discovered that the primary users of this system are truck drivers and loggers.

      But whatever floats your boat....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This makes me want to run out and buy some new HAM gear so I can talk for free to Brazilian bikini models! "Tu amore!"

      I've met people who mistakenly thought Brazilians spoke Spanish before, but you're the first one I've met who thinks they speak Italian :)

    3. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhm, you might have to try using the right language. I can't identify which language "Tu amore!" is, but I know it's not Portuguese. That would be "Te amo".

    4. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait until TV goes digital. Then you'll even have even more space to play with. Not to mention the potential to make shows for all the "dead" analog TVs out there.

      Would be nice to have some pirate programming where one can actually enjoy those Brazilian bikini models.

    5. Re:Wow! by berashith · · Score: 1

      brazilian bikini models with chainsaws !!!

    6. Re:Wow! by chappel · · Score: 1

      I'm a lumberjack and I don't care...

  21. Anyone Know? by FurtiveGlancer · · Score: 1

    How old is the FleetSat platform they are hacking? Some of these birds have been up there a long, long time. Like way before commonly available electronics allowed any jose hacker to reach a satellite. Something to consider before bashing the Navy about an unsecure link. As an ex-AF guy, I can tell you that that last allowable pounds put on a MEO or HEO satellite are station keeping propellant. Just look at the mars rovers to see how long many space craft outlast their design lives.

    --
    Invenio via vel creo
  22. Because... by DomNF15 · · Score: 4, Informative

    NASA budget: $17.2 billion - DoD budget: $515.4 billion - nuff said...

  23. Military Satellite Piracy is all fun and games . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    . . . until the US Navy SEALs parachute into your backyard.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  24. American military genius at work by Murpster · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    America, FUCK YEAH!!

    1. Re:American military genius at work by swb · · Score: 4, Funny

      durka durka, muhammad jihad.

  25. The definition of "Pirate", among other things... by geekmux · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So now pirate is going to be used for anyone using something for nothing?

    So now "prostitute" is going to be used for anyone selling sex?

    So now "pilot" is going to be used for anyone flying a plane?

    Uh, hate to break it to you, but sometimes the right word is used properly. But if you prefer, we could always call them "hackers" and really stir up the geek shit pot...

  26. Hogwash! by thrillbert · · Score: 1

    There's absolutely NO WAY that ANYONE can hack into a US Government satellite or computer system.

    It's like Colbert says, the bible is true because the bible says it's true.. what part of that logic do you not understand???

    --thrill

    1. Re:Hogwash! by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      it's NOT hacking, only the retarded call what they are doing "hacking".

      That's like I hacked my cereal this morning by pouring the contents into a bowl..

      I'm Uber! I did a L33t hack by adding milk!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  27. Not used anymore... by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Asides from the fact that these operators were way outside their respective allowed band, they did no harm as these satellites aren't even used anymore by the US-Navy (for whom they were built). They should repurpose them for civilian use if possible - which would be cool as they are geo stationary.

    1. Re:Not used anymore... by DragonDru · · Score: 1

      that or turn it off.
      Seems like arresting people for using it is the long way around.

      --
      20 characters max for the password? How will I use my favorite poems as passwords?
    2. Re:Not used anymore... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't be too surprised if they've lost control and can't turn them off anymore....

    3. Re:Not used anymore... by tripmine · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh, you can always turn it off. :)

    4. Re:Not used anymore... by nsayer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Asides from the fact that these operators were way outside their respective allowed band, they did no harm as these satellites aren't even used anymore by the US-Navy (for whom they were built).

      BUZZ!!!!

      Oh, I'm sorry, you're incorrect. Thank you for playing, we have a lovely parting gift of TFA for you to read on your way home.

      Here's an excerpt:

      One week after the "Operation Satellite," Brochi met with Wired.com at a gathering of amateur radio enthusiasts in a bucolic square in Campinas, about 60 miles north of Sao Paulo. Brochi switches on his UHF receiver and scans through the satellite frequencies.

      It's relatively quiet now on the satellite underground, except for the static-like sound of encrypted military traffic.

    5. Re:Not used anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, not used at all. The "static" you hear on them is encrypted military comms, you dumbfuck. The batwing antenna on top of every large military aircraft is a UHF satcom antenna. The spiral antennas you see at military compounds? Yup, you got it. Those are UHF satcom antennas. It's a serious problem, and has been for several years. And no, to the retarded JoeMerchant, we can't turn them off because we're still using them.

    6. Re:Not used anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Wouldn't surprise me if those were just beacons relaying telemetry.

      Anyhow try it yourself - they start around 291 mhz - you won't hear a thing.

    7. Re:Not used anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't be too surprised if they've lost control and can't turn them off anymore....

      Wait, a range of satellites?

      At last, a rogue electronic system that is actually worthy of the name SkyNet.

    8. Re:Not used anymore... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      I think these are Geostationary... makes a more expensive target.

    9. Re:Not used anymore... by nsayer · · Score: 1

      I would try it myself, but

      1. I have no interest in monitoring encrypted military traffic, even if I were able to tell the difference between background noise and stuff that sounds a lot like background noise. And as for the other traffic, I don't speak Portuguese.

      2. I do have a receiver that covers that frequency range, but would have to build and aim a suitable antenna. See #1.

      3. Even if I were to hear something, the Secrecy of Communications portions of the Communications act of 1934 would prevent me from sharing the news with you. To wit:

      SEC. 705. [47 U.S.C. 605] UNAUTHORIZED PUBLICATION OF
      COMMUNICATIONS.
      (a) [...] No person not being authorized by the
      sender shall intercept any radio communication and divulge or publish the
      existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning of such intercepted
      communication to any person. No person not being entitled thereto shall receive or
      assist in receiving any interstate or foreign communication by radio and use such
      communication (or any information therein contained) for his own benefit or for
      the benefit of another not entitled thereto. No person having received any
      intercepted radio communication or having become acquainted with the contents,
      substance, purport, effect, or meaning of such communication (or any part thereof)
      knowing that such communication was intercepted, shall divulge or publish the
      existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning of such communication
      (or any part thereof) or use such communication (or any information therein
      contained) for his own benefit or for the benefit of another not entitled thereto.

      This section does go on to provide exemptions for stations in distress or transmissions from Amateur or Citizen's Band stations and certain other situations that are similarly not applicable here.

      Since the Wired article author was in Brazil when he wrote about the interception of encrypted military traffic, this law may not have applied (IANAL), but if he were in the United States when this happened, he and/or the person actually running the radio might have been subject to a $2000 fine or 6 months in the pokey.

  28. Re:Pirates? by d'fim · · Score: 1

    Kilorazilions.

    60 Megarazilions can't be French cliches.

    --
    Adherence to the truth is a form of disloyalty.
  29. America are friends. by toyjoy · · Score: 1

    Well, that's a clever way to build up your comunication enterprise and shouldn't be illegal if the US leave the channel open soo why not use it???

    1. Re:America are friends. by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      So if I leave my front door open, it's not illegal for someone to come in and steal my things, etc. etc.?

  30. on the subject of tags... by yali · · Score: 1

    What I want to know is, what's up with the "hardhack" tag? Did the Brazilian pirates go into space to mod the satellites?

    Because if this story involves space pirates, it's even more awesome than I thought.

    1. Re:on the subject of tags... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Nope, its a hardhack because they're using hardware to hack. (Or hacking hardware to make it do something it might not have been intended to do, like talk with US Navy satellites). Different from keygens, software cracks, and other "softhacks" that are so common that most of the time, a hack may be assumed to be software unless specified that its a hardware hack.

  31. Re:Bah! by Script+Cat · · Score: 1

    We all know noodly Finite State Machines only contribute to global warming.

  32. Let's invade Brazil now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think that we should really have a war against Brazil now.

  33. Eavesdropping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    U.S. experts managed to eavesdrop on one of the channels.

    User1: PLIS I NID FREE
    User1: BR???????????
    User2: SI
    User1: HEUAHEUEHAEUHAEHUAEHUAE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
    User2: HUAJAHUEAJAHUEJAHUEAJAHUEAJAHUEAJA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

  34. W.T.F. by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "If a soldier is shot in an ambush, the first thing he will think of doing will be to send a help request over the radio," observes Brochi. "What if he's trying to call for help and two truckers are discussing soccer? In an emergency, that soldier won't be able to remember quickly how to change the radio programming to look for a frequency that's not saturated."

    What if he's shot in the field and the *enemy* saturates all the frequencies? This should have been secure from the get go, anything less is criminal.

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    1. Re:W.T.F. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      What if he's shot in the field and the *enemy* saturates all the frequencies?

      The enemy will WANT him to be rescued. (Only exception is if he's the only guy with some information they want to keep quiet - which is really rare.)

      Kill a guy and your opponent is down one guy. Wound him and have him rescued and your enemy is down several guys and a bunch of materiel for weeks - while the wounded guy is out of action for months to the length of his enlistment and he doesn't leave family members unsupported and bent on revenge after the war is over. So wounding is more effective in the immediate (guys out of action in THIS battle), short (resources tied up or consumed for the duration of the war), and long (after war is over and you're trading partners and allies) term.

      This is why military rifles and ammunition are designed to wound rather than kill (on the average and within the constraint of incapacitating the victim) and are often too underpowered to be used for hunting (where you're supposed to kill the critters quick so they don't suffer).

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  35. Re:Military Satellite Piracy is all fun and games by freedom_india · · Score: 1

    Not SEALS.
    Marines.
    Where did you get the idea SEALS are used to protect Satellites?

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  36. Re:The definition of "Pirate", among other things. by mdielmann · · Score: 1

    Perhaps not prostitute, but you've never heard the term political whoring? Corporate whoring?
    And pilot. Ever hear of a maritime pilot? I bet they were around before those newfangled aircraft pilots hijacked (ooh, another one!) the name.
    Some words have definitions which are sufficiently flexible to lead to multiple meanings. Pirate has become one of those. Other times, like the hacker vs. cracker issue (or dress vs. robe), it's a lack of knowledge on the part of the user.

    --
    Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
  37. Let them by oldhack · · Score: 4, Funny

    We get their soccer team and call it even. Deal?

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    1. Re:Let them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ...and their supermodels.

    2. Re:Let them by oldhack · · Score: 1

      Good man. What was I thinking?!

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    3. Re:Let them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deal. In fact, you can have all the soccer clubs, the stadiums and their fans. We'll keep the cheerleaders, though.

    4. Re:Let them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No soccer team. better deal is women!

      We get their soccer team and call it even. Deal?

  38. Re:Pirates? by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

    As many posts made prior to you have pointed out:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_radio

    'Pirate Radio' has been used to describe illegal radio transmissions since at least the 60s.

  39. I wish you would. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go ahead.

  40. So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by freedom_india · · Score: 5, Funny

    If i pirate Music with these Satellites, does the RIAA sue the US Navy for "facilitators of illegal downloading" ?
    I would be thrilled to read in the newspapers the next day that RIAA lawyers were water boarded 183 times by the marines...

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    1. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...were water boarded 183 times by the marines.

      When I saw that the CIA had waterboarded a terror suspect 183 times, it made me wonder how the decision was made after they had waterboarded the guy 182 times and not gotten what they wanted to try just once more.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm disgusted by it and think that the decision was made to keep waterboarding him until they get what they want. A consequence of such torture is sometimes that the signal to noise ratio of information obtained suck. People can say anything to make it stop even if they know that they'll get more once it turns out that the info was bs. I will neither claim knowledge nor bother to google studies and statistics about how well or poorly it works since I'm pretty sure that almost all are made by people with their own agendas.

    3. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by Jawn98685 · · Score: 1

      Uhm... how about...
      When you are innocent and have no clue as to what the interrogators want to hear, it can take some guesswork to come up with the "right" answer, sometimes a lot of guesswork.

    4. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Pay no attention to the fact that we waterboarded the scientists in charge of the study on the effectiveness of information obtained from waterboarding. Nothing to see here, move along please.

    5. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by berashith · · Score: 4, Funny

      nope, it is specified in the waterboarding for dummies guidebook. A suspect will immediately start talking, but that is only because they want you to stop. You must continue the process until you know that you are getting the truth. To get to the truth you simply count the times that the waterboarding is applied. Then thou must count to 183. 183 shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be 183. 184 shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count 182, excepting that thou then proceedeth to 183. 185 is right out.

    6. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by James+Skarzinskas · · Score: 0

      Sounds less like a decision of intelligence gathering and more the decision of a peeved agent taking out his inhuman frustrations.

    7. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope the Navy are "Common (aircraft) Carriers".

    8. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that is relevant because...? Are you telling me that because of that they didn't have an agenda? To me that confirms it.

      Anyway, what I adressed was why I think they waterboarded him 183 times and expressed my opinion about it (but evidently you failed to understand that I don't care about its effectiveness and consequently not studies about it either).

    9. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you got your rocks off from torturing prisoners, and your bosses all said it was OK, you'd probably do it just one more time too.

    10. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      When I saw that the CIA had waterboarded a terror suspect 183 times, it made me wonder how the decision was made after they had waterboarded the guy 182 times and not gotten what they wanted to try just once more.

      Teh algorithm is actually pretty simple:

      void interrogate(Subject subject) {
        try {
          while (subject.isAlive()) {
            subject.demandInformation();
            if (subject.isSilent()) {
              for (TortureMethod tm : TORTURE_METHODS) {
                tm.apply(subject);
              }
            } else {
              break;
            }
          }
        } finally { // might get an AuditError above, in theory...
          if (!subject.isAlive()) {
            subject.dispose();
          }
        }
      }

      As you can see, there's no magic N. You just keep trying till you have something to work with.

    11. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      Just something to keep in mind, but I know Marines who waterboard each other for fun on the weekends. You may think it's torture, and you're entitled to your opinion whether you've been waterboarded yourself or not, but Marines don't.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    12. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think even RIAA might be able to figure out not to fuck with someone who can nuke them from orbit.

    13. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Do you understand that what some people do voluntarily can, under involuntary circumstances, be torture?

      For example, if I were to do to you what me and the missus do after a few drinks. That would be torture for you.

      Or not.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Just something to keep in mind, but I know Marines who waterboard each other for fun on the weekends.

      How about "bullshit"?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      Marines are always so coool.
      They shoot themselves in the head to see who survives.
      No wonder Marines are not allowed to use Armor or Artillery.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    16. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      ...and am disgusted by the fact that you liberal morons want to handle KSM with kid gloves, milk & cookies especially after he murdered 2000+ Human Beings.
      KSM should be happy with his treatment and pray he is executed by injection rather than forced to serve time in Federal Prisons... being an "intimate" friend of Bubba & his gang.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    17. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Wow, thought what I wrote was clear enough that I didn't need to explicitly add the <joke></joke> tags.

      Welcome, this is Slashdot. I must be new here. <headdesk>

    18. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      1. Marines do NOT shoot themselves in the head to see who survives.

      2. Marines DO have armor.

      3. Marines DO have artillery.

      Other than that, though, you're spot on.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    19. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by freedom_india · · Score: 1
      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    20. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      ...for certain values of proof. Anecdotal evidence having nothing to do with your first post. So? I'm already aware some Marines do stupid things. I was the one who said I know some who waterboard each other, right?

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    21. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Feel free to be disgusted by that but also expect to be considered as having pretty extreme double standards. After the same war in which we killed 120 000+ people with a couple of bombs (mostly civilians, what else could we expect in cities?), we convicted their military personnel for war crimes since they had waterboarded GIs, which we determined to be torture. Now, obviously the legal questions are different because captured GIs are POWs whilst captured terrorists are unlawful combatants but since we denied torturing anyone, we were at least morally bound not to do it regardless of their status. That casualty figure and self-imposed obligation, which we ignored, should make you see our behavior from a different perspective. Note that I do not deny that the total number of casualties in WW2 might be lower due to the nukes dropped but I want to point out the hypocracy that you might be fine with. Perhaps you would also have been fine with it if the Bush administration had - when asked - said that since they're unlawful combatants they will not be treated according to the Geneva conventions (or even explicitly that harsh physical methods for extracting information will be used). Maybe the majority of us had approved of it after 9/11 and those who didn't would at least not have had to debate whether torture is going on but instead been able to focus on debating whether it's acceptable.

      It might also be of interest to you that John McCain wrote in Newsweek a few years ago that he also considered waterboarding torture and that we shouldn't do it.

    22. Re:So if i pirate Music with these Satellites... by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      I know. That's why i added Enjoy-:) after that: meaning i wasn't disputing what you said but providing you with more anecdotal evidence of the same.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  41. truthiness on real ninjas by evilkasper · · Score: 3, Informative
  42. Hmm by idiotnot · · Score: 1

    First Orkut, now SATCOM?

  43. Yes, It Is A Problem by maz2331 · · Score: 1

    The reason why it is so strongly frowned upon is that satellite transponders have a limited amount of transmission power available, which must be shared and coordinated among all the users. Rogue transmitters screw up the planning and degrades the "legitimate" users' ability to communicate.

  44. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  45. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  46. Why is this even illegal? by hackel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the incompetent soldiers at the U.S. Navy can't figure a way to secure their own satellites, why should the citizens of another country on the other side of the planet be prosecuted, fined, or worse, merely for sending out a radio signal that happens to match the same frequency the U.S. military used? This is insanity. It makes me angry that the Brazilian government is cooperating at all with the U.S. Defence Department in targeting these individuals. They should be protecting them! If a U.S. soldier is wounded in the field and is unable to radio for help, he or she should curse himself first, for joining the military, and second his idiot government for designing such an insecure satellite.

    I hope more Brazilians and others from around the world get in on this act! Perhaps there's a way we can use it to multicast data as well, that would be brilliant!

    1. Re:Why is this even illegal? by CompMD · · Score: 1

      If it were Americans playing games with your country's satellites, you'd be up in arms about it.

      You're right, it is insanity. Your insanity.

      I hope you forget to lock your door one day and all your stuff disappears. After all, its your fault for having such an insecure residence.

    2. Re:Why is this even illegal? by hackel · · Score: 1

      I AM an American you insensitive clod! The satellite is in open space, and American does NOT own open space. It's not as if they're breaking into something in America... If I decide to go store my stuff outside of my house, and don't secure it, then it certainly is my fault if someone steals it!

    3. Re:Why is this even illegal? by ZFox · · Score: 1

      Obligatory car analogy:
      So it shouldn't be a crime to steal an unlocked car parked on the street?

      It's not generally regarded sharing unless the owner grants the usage. These are some of the things we learn in kindergarten, if not before.

    4. Re:Why is this even illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who says americans don't do it all the time?

    5. Re:Why is this even illegal? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      If the incompetent soldiers at the U.S. Navy can't figure a way to secure their own satellites, why should the citizens of another country on the other side of the planet be prosecuted, fined, or worse, merely for sending out a radio signal that happens to match the same frequency the U.S. military used?

      Yes. And when your car is stolen, it's CLEARLY your fault for the vehicle not being immune to every known method for breaking into and stealing it...

      In fact that's NOT a fair analogy... you COULD reasonably add lots of security onto your car, while it would be overwhelmingly impractical to do anything to secure a satellite that is extremely restricted in size, weight, power and heat envelope.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    6. Re:Why is this even illegal? by hackel · · Score: 1

      Yes, but no one stole anything! Again, they merely transmitted a radio signal. The fact that it happened to coincide with a frequency used by another country's satellite is no doubt annoying to the satellite's owners, but you can't fault the people sending the message. The U.S. does not own frequencies either. Sure, they are restricted within our borders, but outside, and especially in open space, is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

    7. Re:Why is this even illegal? by RocketRabbit · · Score: 1

      Methinks you haven't heard of the ITU. Even "rogue states" get together and agree on frequency usage.

  47. Why? by goodmanj · · Score: 1

    Umm, *why* are US military satellites allowing unrestricted access? Sure, the groundside hardware might be hard to obtain when they were originally launched in 1970, but did they really not care if the Soviets used their satellites?

    "Dear Congress. We want $1 gajillion to launch communications satellites so we can talk to our ships. These satellites will let the Russkies talk to their ships too. Kthxbye, The Pentagon."

    Presumably real naval signals were encrypted on board the ship and decrypted at their destination, but the satellites should have some sort of authentication and session key system to prevent unauthorized access. ... or maybe they did, and the Pentagon has disabled it now that the satellites are no longer used, opening the satellites to the public deliberately.

  48. Reminds of that Gulf War fiasco... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think I remember hearing something about a fiasco involving communication satellites during the Gulf War. At the time, the US Military was running out of bandwidth and they started using these old communication channels. I think some Greek hackers picked these signals up and they could hear all the chatting in the clear. They reported to the US Embassy and the message was relayed back to the Pentagon. I don't know if the hackers ever got into trouble though. Does anyone remember anything else about this story?

  49. Ah thats what it was! by citylivin · · Score: 1

    I was talking to a co worker from south america (peru), a year or so ago, and he was asking me if I had this so called "world phone" which would work anywhere in the world (at least the americas) for free! I told him there was no way there was a free cel phone network that extended the length of both continents, but he persisted that his relatives will bring their phones up here and use them - for free - to call back to peru.

    Perhaps this is what he was talking about! If so, this has gone on for years and is VERY widespread in south america. Hopefully some native peruvians could shed some light on the issue and what phones exactly you would need to take advantage of the network. I believe he was calling them "nortels", like the phone company.

    --
    As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
  50. Is this all it takes? by vlakkies · · Score: 1

    If a few clowns with $500 worth of equipment can essentially deny the military the use of the system, it is not going to be of any use in a conflict when the opposing force has a lot more sophisticated equipment.

  51. Can't let this one go without comment by sean.peters · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Much of the parent is misleading or false.

    An income tax is much more complex and labor-intensive than all other forms of taxation.

    It's true that our current income tax system is complex... but it's hardly true that this is an essential feature of income tax systems. We could have a simple income tax system, but we've chosen not to. Similarly, excise and sales taxes can be complex, and some of them are... at the very least, they vary wildly from state to state and product to product.

    The only reason for having one is so that you can use carrot-and-stick methods to manipulate the population ("do something we like, get a tax credit; do something we don't like, pay more"). That's the only "benefit"; otherwise it is inferior in every way to all other forms of taxation.

    This is utterly ridiculous. The reason for having an income tax is that it can be made progressive (in other words, you can make rich people pay proportionally more), in ways you can't with sales/excise taxes. That's the benefit of an income tax system... and yes, it is in fact a benefit. The carrot & stick effect is by no means exclusive to income taxes, either - excise taxes on, for example, cigarettes, are explicitly a stick being wielded against tobacco use.

    1. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by OttoErotic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Continuing the totally off-topic thread... It always bugs me when people hold up income tax as the only plausible form of progressive tax. What about national sales tax? It seems like it would be simple enough to set up sales tax exemptions for bare necessities (food, housing, maybe energy), so that only non-essentials get taxed. Rich people buy more stuff = they pay higher tax. It seems like a much more efficient, naturally balanced method than fiddling around with the system to determine who counts as rich, and what rate they should pay at.

      --
      "Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
    2. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Um, you're flaw is that the only things left to tax are not necessities, and thus rich people can hold back spending. Just because I have a million doesn't mean I buy the most expensive house I can afford.

    3. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by berashith · · Score: 0, Troll

      When someone is forced to pay proportionally more, do they also get proportionally more representation?

      A rich person will already pay quite a bit more in if we were just using a sales tax. I never understand why there should be an extra punishment.

    4. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Um, you're flaw is that the only things left to tax are not necessities, and thus rich people can hold back spending. Just because I have a million doesn't mean I buy the most expensive house I can afford.

      What's the use of the money then? Will we have a surge in CEOs wearing fruit of the loom t-shirts with flipflops and a casio watch?

      Or they buy overseas, but then they have to pay a tariff.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    5. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by LordVader717 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your assumption actually proves you're not experienced in the matter.
      It's actually quite the opposite. Rich people aren't generally affected by sales tax. That's because rich people generally put their money into real estate or invest in shares. Proportionally they use much less on living than the less wealthy do. That's why sales tax is highly regressive.
      It's a little far fetched to claim that lower classes only pay for food and rent. They also spend their money on consumer goods like TVs and computers, furniture, household equipment, cars and not least leisure and going out, all of which is hurt by sales tax. For rich people all of this is mere pennies.

    6. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      So rich people are going to start living in trailer homes, buying hyundais and eating raman noodles to avoid a sales tax? That's a really poor argument against a national sales tax.

      A better argument is the potential for a huge black market to form around goods that are taxed. 5%-7% doesn't lend itself to a big black market forming (although you could argue the internet IS the current black market), but 20%+ will make people look for ways to avoid paying the sales tax.

    7. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's true that our current income tax system is complex...

      This is certainly an exciting off-topic thread. We really ought to have a poll/discussion on the merits of different forms of taxation!

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    8. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Or they buy overseas, and you know, just bring back that Rolex on their wrist after spending a ton of money in another country on other stuff.

    9. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      They'd cut back I bet. Still better off than you, but hording more in the bank and taking lavish vacations in other countries..

      As for arguments against a national sales tax... I already hate my money being taken and redistributed to other people, moreso when said people aren't even in my state. Why should I help subsidize someone living in another state? I want LESS tax overall, not more. I also have more say in my state government than I do the federal one... which means that if i do have to pay taxes, at least I get more say over what they are spent on.

    10. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by causality · · Score: 1

      It's true that our current income tax system is complex... but it's hardly true that this is an essential feature of income tax systems.

      Really? Because I don't have to file a tax return when I buy items from a store and pay the sales tax. H&R Block doesn't offer consultation services for the tax attached to a gallon of gasoline. The government will never audit my individual personal records to make sure I didn't cheat the sales tax when I bought groceries.

      Income taxes have one more weakness as well. Many foreigners who visit this country, such as tourists, are not employed in this country. That means that they do not pay any sort of income tax. If we replaced the income tax with a national sales tax, any goods those foreigners purchase would be taxed just like when a citizen purchases an item. Also, illegal aliens could no longer work "under the table" to dodge a sales tax.

      This is utterly ridiculous. The reason for having an income tax is that it can be made progressive (in other words, you can make rich people pay proportionally more), in ways you can't with sales/excise taxes. That's the benefit of an income tax system... and yes, it is in fact a benefit.

      A percentage is already inherently proportional. If there is a uniform 10% income tax that applies equally to everyone, the guy who makes $30,000 a year pays $3000. The guy who makes $500,000 a year pays $50,000. I am satisfied with that. Of course the real figure would probably be higher than 10% but this makes the point I intended to make. Yes, I do know what a progressive tax is; I just happen to feel that it is unnecessary.

      What I am about to say next is difficult to explain because it will be very easy to demagogue. That's because there are many pundits and talk show hosts who say things that sound very similar to what I am about to say but I do not feel the way that they do. So, if you want to show me that you are insecure and very desperate to make a cheap shot, you can try a pigeonhole tactic by lumping me together with them and attributing their flaws to me. That won't make your position any more correct, of course, but it will show a weakness in your position.

      I've never heard an argument for progressive taxation that made sense. The argument that wealthy people and their businesses benefit more from government services (such as police protection of that wealth) doesn't hold water, because a flat percentage applied to everyone already guarantees that they pay more money to support these things.

      There is a side-effect of progressive taxation that I suspect is the real reason why certain political forces like it so much. We currently have a situation where about 40% of the population has no federal income tax liability. Many of those are still eligible for various tax credits. Those people can be expected to continue to vote for and support those politicians who make this possible.

      Then there's the fact that the wealthiest one percent of income earners pay about one-third of all federal income tax. Because they are only one percent, their votes are negligible; meanwhile, the other 99% has an interest in supporting any politician who maintains this status quo. It's effectively a way to disenfranchise a segment of the population. I believe this is wrong no matter how much you may think they deserve it or how noble-sounding your justification is. I just don't buy into the situational ethics which permit a person to believe that doing something wrong is okay as long as you really want to. If you have a system that permits a segment of the population to be marginalized like this, and it's considered acceptable, then logically any other segment of the population could be next.

      Then there's also the idea that each person should be equal in the eyes of the law. If you single out a segment of the population and treat them differently, you are harming this concept. Again, I am sure tha

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    11. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "It's actually quite the opposite. Rich people aren't generally affected by sales tax. That's because rich people generally put their money into real estate or invest in shares. Proportionally they use much less on living than the less wealthy do."

      Well, those investments and savings don't just disappear, they go into banks and the like which generates a credit market, and jobs for other people. It doesn't sit there idle.

      As for the proportion of money..at a level of existing...that just doesn't matter any more man. So what if it is less proportionally, why should that matter at all as an argument?

      "It's a little far fetched to claim that lower classes only pay for food and rent. They also spend their money on consumer goods like TVs and computers, furniture, household equipment, cars and not least leisure and going out, all of which is hurt by sales tax."

      Well, now wait, that's not an argument for paying a fair share of taxes, but, an argument that everyone deserves all the luxuries in life that are available.

      I'm sorry, but tv's and computers are not required for life, they are luxuries that make life easier and nicer. No one has a 'right' to those things. Maybe if they couldn't afford them, they might take extra effort to make up for not getting an education the first time around, and try to better themselves to get better paying jobs so they can have these luxuries.

      I do agree that shelter is a basic need...so, I'd be for an exemption on rent and/or house payments for a sales tax. Although, I've never heard of rent being taxable?!?! I've certainly never paid tax on top of my rent check.

      In the US, at least...equal opportunity, does not mean equal results. No one deserves the 'good life'. But to give people a break, sure, I'm all for exempting things needed for basic life in this day in age like food and shelter.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    12. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "A better argument is the potential for a huge black market to form around goods that are taxed. 5%-7% doesn't lend itself to a big black market forming (although you could argue the internet IS the current black market), but 20%+ will make people look for ways to avoid paying the sales tax."

      Then again..would people really have incentive to do that?

      Since people would have their FULL income coming in without taxes being withheld, they'd have much more money to spend, so it would be a wash with a larger sales tax since with more cash in hand vs today with less cash in hand and less tax (but increasing ones) on goods.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "As for arguments against a national sales tax... I already hate my money being taken and redistributed to other people, moreso when said people aren't even in my state. Why should I help subsidize someone living in another state? I want LESS tax overall, not more. I also have more say in my state government than I do the federal one... which means that if i do have to pay taxes, at least I get more say over what they are spent on."

      Well, as I understand the FairTax...overall, you'd have less tax.

      It would replace the income taxes currently taken out of your check before you get it. You'd now get the full amount, and the tax you pay, is based on how much your purchase.

      Frankly, I'd think that if the states were collecting this tax...they'd actually have power back again, as that the feds would be dependent on the states giving them the tax dollars.

      I dunno if that is written into how it works, but, it is a thought.....

      I too am for keeping things more on a state level, as you said, they are more responsive to MY direct needs.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    14. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by inviolet · · Score: 1

      The reason for having an income tax is that it can be made progressive (in other words, you can make rich people pay proportionally more), in ways you can't with sales/excise taxes. That's the benefit of an income tax system... and yes, it is in fact a benefit.

      • Progressive taxes aim for "equal pain" taxation, in which we all have an equally painful chunk of our wealth taken.
      • Flat taxes, by contrast, aim for "equal contribution", in which we all pay a fixed fee or a fixed percentage in fairness to the fact that wealthier folks tend (strongly) to be that way because they generate more real wealth for society.
      • Regressive taxes aim for "contribution equal to consumption of public services", in which the lower classes pay more in fairness to the larger real expenses they impose on society.

      You cannot honestly claim to know that one of these goals clearly trumps the others. They are all fraught with problems, and it is not obvious which flavor of 'fairness', or which time horizon, we should prefer.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    15. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by guamisc · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. Where are mod points when I need them?

    16. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      How do you decide what's essential? (Reviewing the rules of some states, you'll find that it's not really intuitive.)

      It's easier just to give every individual a certain exemption from taxes by paying them a small rebate each year consisting of (national sales tax rate) * (poverty-line consumption).

    17. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by bitrex · · Score: 1

      s. Maybe if they couldn't afford them, they might take extra effort to make up for not getting an education the first time around, and try to better themselves to get better paying jobs so they can have these luxuries.

      It seems the "They're uneducated" argument is the standard argument in the Slashdot community for why the poor are poor in the United States. I would suggest that a high school level education is perfectly sufficient for a wide variety of skilled work that at one time provided a comfortable standard of living for many Americans. The problem is that these skilled jobs do not exist anymore, so one is left in the position of having to make an enormous and often unfeasible economic investment in higher education if one wants the possibility of being employed in any position higher than the service industry. It is totally presumptuous for the "elites" of the system to have completely changed the rules of the game by dismantling domestic industry (which was the lifeblood of the middle class economy) in the name of free trade (the rules of which apparently only the U.S. are required to obey) - and then accuse those affected of being inadequate because they could not or would not adapt to the new way of things.

      And what will we do if suddenly all these people do decide to better themselves, and manage to obtain the betterment that everyone seems to want them to have? We'll end up in a situation that China is running into, but for somewhat different reasons: Ten million highly educated people leaving universities each year with business degrees, IT degrees, law degrees, arts and humanities degrees, science degrees - all competing for a tenth that many jobs. It will quickly be realized that the "Idea Economy" is a load of crap. Ideas don't make economies, energy and products do - and the US hasn't worked very hard at either discipline for a long time. So at that point, what will the upper-class excuse be for why someone with a secondary education is still at the poverty line?

    18. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by Dravik · · Score: 1

      It is totally presumptuous for the "elites" of the system to have completely changed the rules of the game by dismantling domestic industry

      There has never been a time in history where the rules of the game were not in flux.

      --
      The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
    19. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Well, as I understand the FairTax...overall, you'd have less tax.

      Not possible, without more government debt or cutting programs. BTW, I'd all in favor of slashing programs, especially medicaid, welfare, etc.

      It would replace the income taxes currently taken out of your check before you get it. You'd now get the full amount, and the tax you pay, is based on how much your purchase.

      Yes, and to offset the lost income from income tax, sales / use taxes would have to be ratcheted up quite high to make up for the loss.. thus reducing spending. I bought at PS3 this past weekend, and was pretty annoyed at the $45 in tax I had to pay (7%). So there's no net gain for me... on the other hand, raising income tax on those above $250,000 doesn't affect me at all. You make more, you pay more. That's ALWAYS has the income tax has been.. indeed, that's how it was put into place. It was popular because it used to affect almost no one.

      Frankly, I'd think that if the states were collecting this tax...they'd actually have power back again, as that the feds would be dependent on the states giving them the tax dollars.

      If it's a national tax, it would be collected at the federal level. The only way states will get power back is by repealing the 17th amendment.

      I too am for keeping things more on a state level, as you said, they are more responsive to MY direct needs.

      Then a federal sales tax goes against that goal.

    20. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by OttoErotic · · Score: 1

      Personally I'm a big fan of eliminating all but the sales tax and making the rate high enough to be revenue-neutral, which I imagine would be something astronomical like 40-60%.

      The driver for me is that I don't think people (myself included) have a valid concept of how much they really pay in tax. I can't imagine anything driving down government spending as effectively as seeing a 40% sales tax on your goods.

      --
      "Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
    21. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by OttoErotic · · Score: 1

      Just can't bring myself to let this one go. I'm so petty.

      I don't claim that lower classes only pay for food and rent, only that food and rent, along with a few other items and services, are the basic necessities of life, sufficient for a human being to live.

      As far as I'm concerned, a fair tax system has to follow 2 criteria:
      1) It needs to be simple enough to give people an honest understanding of what they're paying. No punishment (cigarettes, alcohol) taxes. No loopholes, no wide ranging variety of taxes. The only other taxes I would want to see are ones based strictly on usage, which directly fund the services they claim to (like national park entrance fees). Which leads into:
      2) To some degree they should be based on my admittedly vague concept of 'participation in society'. Ie, if a mountain man chooses to isolate himself and not draw on the benefits of civilization, and his only interaction with society at large is to purchase the untaxed essentials of life, then I don't think he should be required to fund those benefits for others. Conversely, you don't get rich without being well-integrated into society, and you should be taxed accordingly for your consumption of those benefits. I won't say a sales tax is perfect, but I do think that consumption has at least a loose correlation to 'participation'.

      --
      "Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
    22. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by OttoErotic · · Score: 1

      I would think you'd get into more trouble with fixed exemptions. Cost of living varies widely across states and you incentivize having additional children to earn rebates. Personally I think the basics-of-life are pretty much what everyone covers in junior high science: food, water, shelter. Of course I remove clothing from that list, as I'm hoping a 90% tax on women's clothing will incentivize rampant nudity.

      --
      "Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
    23. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by OttoErotic · · Score: 1

      That's a good point, and I don't have a ready answer. Maybe this could be addressed with customs regulations? Hard to administer probably (and like someone mentions below, would you end up with a black market?), but any harder than income tax? I'm not so sure.

      --
      "Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
    24. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by LordVader717 · · Score: 1

      Okay, this is now getting very social-philosophical. So I'm not going to poke around at your numerous false assumptions.
      What I stated was that sales tax is effectively regressive.

      As for the proportion of money..at a level of existing...that just doesn't matter any more man. So what if it is less proportionally, why should that matter at all as an argument?

      Um, that was the whole argument. Sales tax is regressive. Without other forms of taxation the system would be much unfairer.

    25. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Harder to administer? How about impossible, and if you think the IRS digs too much into your life, just want until you have the government documenting EVERY possestion as you leave the country.. and don't forget they'll have to catalog your MP3s too!

      Thanks, I'll stick to the income tax.. which also rightly puts more budren on those most able to afford it.

    26. Re:Can't let this one go without comment by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      I really should have thrown this in with the original comment.

      A friend of mine grew up in New Jersey and worked in a drugstore during high school. This was still a non-automated place at the time - no scanners for prices. As a result, she had to know which items were considered "essential" by the NJ state legislature (and thus were exempt from tax) and which were not. Surprises: toothbrushes are essential, but toothpaste is not. Toilet paper (!) is not essential. And so forth.

  52. 4th way by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    switch to some other encrypted form of com on new sats and then allow these sats to stay up there in the same context as darpanet creating the internet. What would happen is that new sats would go up with a new way to make money by others.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  53. One word answer by sean.peters · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They're pirating bandwidth, which is an extremely scarce commodity in a military situation. Bear in mind that even a small ship has something like 300 people onboard, and most of them have some considerable amount of official business in sending e-mails, making "phone calls" (voice radio transmissions), sending/receiving teletype data, exchanging sensor/intel data, etc, etc, etc. When some of the available bandwidth is "pirated" (for lack of a better term) by folks who really need to talk about the performance of the local futbol team, it affects the ability of the US Navy to do its job.

    If you, for example, used a lot of VOIP, (or online gaming, or whatever) and found out that your call quality had deteriorated because your neighbor had tapped into your network connection for his communication needs, how would you feel about that? Do you think it ought to be illegal? After all, this is bandwidth that you are paying for (and the neighbor is not).

  54. Where... by S-100 · · Score: 1

    Where's Thunderbird 5 when you need it?

  55. Re:Wow! "Tu amore!"?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF? Would you rather mean "Meu amor?"

    "amore" seems Italian to me though.

  56. Great moments in national security by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    aren't military satellites supposed to be designed in such a way that their communications cannot be highjacked????

  57. Re:Military Satellite Piracy is all fun and games by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Three shots. Three kills. That's how SEALS deal with pirates! Yes, those are definitely NOT the people you want to be angry at you.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  58. To amplify on this by sean.peters · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mod parent up. The US is, in fact, building a replacement satellite system (as discussed in TFA). Also, the US is not spending the dollars to bust these guys - the Brazilians are (at our behest, as also pointed out in TFA).

    It's also important to note that the 70's technology in question was designed and launched... in the 70's. It's not like we put those birds up there yesterday. As also noted in the article.

    In conclusion: read the article before posting (I know, I must be new here).

  59. Per TFA... by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    They were launched in the 70's.

  60. Welcome by palmerj3 · · Score: 1

    I, for one, welcome our new Brazilian Pirate Overlords..

  61. That is utter BS. by sean.peters · · Score: 2, Informative

    Asides from the fact that these operators were way outside their respective allowed band, they did no harm as these satellites aren't even used anymore by the US-Navy (for whom they were built).

    I'm recently retired from the US Navy, and I guarantee you these satellites are still in use.

  62. Audio clips of pirates using Milsats by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

    You can hear pirates on some of the clips here (search for 'pirate'). The UHF-Satcom Site has a lot of interesting information on monitoring satellites from UHF and above.

    --
    Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  63. Don't forget by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    These satellites were designed and built in the 70's, when jamming of satellite transmissions was considerably harder than it would be today (strictly speaking, "jamming" of the freqs is still sort of hard... and while "pirating" them appears to be all too easy today, it was hard to imagine it being possible then). The design consideration then was to prevent intercept... which was handled by encryption.

    1. Re:Don't forget by maxume · · Score: 1

      And then there is the whole "What if in the field...and the enemy turns on their extremely loud beacons" aspect of it.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Don't forget by TrekkieGod · · Score: 1

      These satellites were designed and built in the 70's, when jamming of satellite transmissions was considerably harder than it would be today.

      Fair enough.

      and while "pirating" them appears to be all too easy today, it was hard to imagine it being possible then

      By random truckers with $100-$500 equipment, sure. However, what about well funded foreign governments? Did it really not occur to them back then that, "we're spending a ton of money on this satellite system, and even though our transmissions will be encrypted and the enemy won't be able to decrypt them, by not preventing actual access we're basically allowing them to use our expensive satellite communication network to send their encrypted transmissions that we can't intercept without having to bother paying to put their own birds up"?

      It just seems like a really bad idea.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

  64. What law? by uffe_nordholm · · Score: 1

    I read the article, but didn't see any mention of what the 'radio pirates' are being charged with. Does anybody know?

    Here in Sweden they could get hit by operating a radio transmitter without a licence, but I find it hard to believe they could get charged with anything serious for having tampered with another countries satelites, particularly if the satelites are military: the assumption would be that the satelites do not fall under Swedish jurisdiction (or should be tamperproof).

  65. pirates, no matter how by nimbius · · Score: 1

    much we want them to be, are not the same as hackers.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  66. Mod Parent UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mod Parent up. Way up.

    Most readers here probably don't even know what radio piracy is. They don't know what a transponder is, and they think that all tech starts with a cell phone.

    When it was originally conceived, technology to permit/deny access wasn't easy to set up in a battle hardened system.

    Yes, for people who think the analog cell phone days were the dark ages, this is indeed ancient stuff. What they fail to realize is that we don't always have cell sites everywhere on earth. And most importantly, you can't go to battle with a cell phone for communications.

    So it behooves you to develop a hardened, easy to use communications system that doesn't rely on too much technology to keep it working. By today's standards, this system is quaint. But before you laugh too loudly, keep in mind how long it takes to design systems like this, and how long it can take to develop and deploy a significantly better system.

    Still, this system should have been replaced at least a decade ago. Even the US military budget doesn't always get the attention it deserves.

  67. Saw it coming in 1992 by earlymon · · Score: 1

    Garth Algar: OK... First I'll access the secret military spy satelite that is in geosynchronous orbit over the midwest. Then I'll ID the limo by the vanity plate "MR. BIGGG" and get his approximate position. Then I'll reposition the transmission dish on the remote truck to 17.32 degrees east, hit WESTAR 4 over the Atlantic, bounce the signal back into the aerosphere up to COMSAT 6, beam it back to SATCOM 2 transmitter number 137 and down on the dish on the back of Mr. Big's limo... It's almost too easy.

    --
    Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
  68. Huahue by Swordopolis · · Score: 1

    BR?

    --
    Alchemist: Be Thou For the People
  69. Re:Ninja apostrophe by Major+Byte · · Score: 1
    Those Ninjas with Guitars would truly be awesome if the artist took the misplaced apostrophe out of its title.

    Here's a helpful reference chart.

  70. Jurisdiction? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

    Where does the law weigh in on all of this?

    Brazilian Federal Police swooped in on 39 suspects in six states in the largest crackdown to date on a growing problem here: illegal hijacking of U.S. military satellite transponders.

    The crackdown, called "Operation Satellite," was Brazil's first large-scale enforcement against the problem. Police followed coordinates provided by the U.S. Department of Defense and confirmed by Anatel, Brazil's FCC. Among those charged were university professors, electricians, truckers and farmers, the police say. The suspects face up to four years and jail, but are more likely to be fined if convicted.

    Brazilian citizens are not citizens of the US. They're also not a military. Nor are they representing the nation of Brazil.

    Under what legal authority does the United States have the right to ask them to stop? Under what legal authority does Brazil have the right to facilitate this request?

    Those satellites are in nation-less space. There isn't any turf up there, as far as I'm aware.

    Shuffle the countries around a bit. Assume the satellites are owned by different parties - do things change?

    Can I hit these satellites from within international waters?

    Did the US bribe Brazil to get this cooperation?

    This all just strikes me as odd.

    1. Re:Jurisdiction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have wondered this same thing. What jurisdiction does any country have in space? Wasn't there an international agreement made years ago with the intent of stopping countries from being able to make such jurisdictional claims?

      If it's in space then it should be free game for anyone with the smarts to take advantage of it. Perhaps the US military should just use better system security?

  71. Simple solution by MiniMike · · Score: 1

    Tell them that all communications are being monitored by the NSA/CIA!

    Or broadcast something really annoying (bad music, stock market reports, commercials- could even make some money!).

  72. Why do something fun like hack dish / direct tv sa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do something fun like hack dish / direct tv sat's and make SHOW, HBO, MAX, STARS free to all.

  73. Money = Power by sjbe · · Score: 1

    When someone is forced to pay proportionally more, do they also get proportionally more representation?

    Are you seriously arguing that rich folks aren't better able to influence government than the poor? If money didn't provide access to power we would not care about campaign finance reform. I thought it was basically axiomatic at this point that money is easily translated into influence...

    A rich person will already pay quite a bit more in if we were just using a sales tax.

    They pay more in absolute terms but not as a percent of income. Sales taxes are regressive taxes and they hit the poor disproportionately harder than the wealthy.

    I never understand why there should be an extra punishment.

    What "punishment"? I hope you are so unfortunate as to earn a six or seven figure income. Given all the benefits of wealth if the only cost is somewhat higher taxes then it is disingenuous to complain about such good fortune.

    1. Re:Money = Power by berashith · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously arguing

      nope, trolling

      What "punishment"? I hope you are so unfortunate as to earn a six or seven figure income. Given all the benefits of wealth if the only cost is somewhat higher taxes then it is disingenuous to complain about such good fortune.

      I can respond decently to this however. I do think that many of the people able to pull six figures have paid a cost. They made correct decisions early in life, and many of them give up time with their families for too much work.

      This doesnt apply to all wealthy people, but I do think that as many people that have no chance to improve their financial position exist as people who are born into unending wealth that will never have to work a real day in their lives... so those groups nearly cancel out.

      I have earned six figures ( even though I made many poor decisions early in life ) but now I would rather spend time raising my son then working 18 hours a day. I believe the advantages of wealth start much higher than most people think, and that wealth is not easily gotten in most cases.

    2. Re:Money = Power by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      They pay more in absolute terms but not as a percent of income. Sales taxes are regressive taxes and they hit the poor disproportionately harder than the wealthy.

      This is why the Fair Tax, if done right, could actually help the poor. They would start taking home their entire paychecks and start getting monthly stipends that would cover the sales tax paid on necessity goods and services.

    3. Re:Money = Power by sjbe · · Score: 1

      I can respond decently to this however. I do think that many of the people able to pull six figures have paid a cost. They made correct decisions early in life, and many of them give up time with their families for too much work.

      A cost is not the same as a "punishment". The choice to earn a 6 figure income at a cost of seeing much of your family, while unfortunate, is a voluntary prioritization. There is nothing morally wrong with choosing to be a high earner but once the food is on the table and the roof is overhead anything additional is a conscious decision. Maybe a decision to be regretted later but hardly mandatory or to be pitied and certainly not a "punishment".

      Anyway I was merely responding to the notion that wealthy folks are somehow "punished" in the US for their success. That is by almost any reasoning a ludicrous proposition.

    4. Re:Money = Power by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Most people think that high incomes equal wealth, which is manifestly not true. You must either earn a LOT of money (>>$1M/yr), or live far below your means, or both, in order to really get wealthy.

  74. Not really a surprise by jandrese · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Once you know the basics of how these birds work it's not a surprise that people are hijacking transponders for their own use. Anybody can hook up a scope to a dish and scan the sky/spectrum for an unused transponder. Then they just need to broadcast on that transponder and the bird will happily relay it back to Earth. Most birds are just bent pipes, they don't have the kind of smarts you would need to authenticate a signal before retransmitting it.

    The reason this isn't common is because the satellite operator will eventually notice the extra power drain on the transponder and will pinpoint the offending transmitter fairly quickly (a few hours to days). Then it's a fairly simple matter to send the authorities to impound your pirate equipment. That appears to be exactly what happened here, although the satellite operators were lazy about tracking down the pirates and let them operate for a fairly long time.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
  75. Only in America by No2Gates · · Score: 0

    This is proof of the oxymoron "Military Intelligence". We encrypt our cell phones, but not military communications?? Yeah, that makes sense.

    --
    Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
  76. It's twice that by copponex · · Score: 1

    Adding emergency discretionary spending and supplemental spending brings the sum to US$651.2 billion.[1] This does not include many military-related items that are outside of the Defense Department budget, such as nuclear weapons research, maintenance and production (about $9.3 billion, which is in the Department of Energy budget), Veterans Affairs (about $33.2 billion), interest on debt incurred in past wars, or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (which are largely funded through extra-budgetary supplements, about $170 billion in 2007). As of 2009, the United States government is spending about $1 trillion annually on defense-related purposes. [2]

    -Wikipedia

    And what money from where gets shuffled to the the unconstitutional CIA? I think it's around 50 billion these days, but no one knows for sure, or how much money they still take in running drugs.

    "No money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time."

  77. A rose by any other name...still stinks. by geekmux · · Score: 1

    ...Some words have definitions which are sufficiently flexible to lead to multiple meanings. Pirate has become one of those.

    Ah, I'm curious as to which definition of the term pirate, used as a noun or verb, is actually used to describe a person or action that is taken in a positive light?

    Sorry, but even after hundreds of years, "pirate" has become about as sufficiently flexible as "blowjob". The only definition that has been appended in the last hundred years is the one that describes the same sort of electronic activity in the original article.

    1. Re:A rose by any other name...still stinks. by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but even after hundreds of years, "pirate" has become about as sufficiently flexible as "blowjob".

      I see what you did there...

      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pirate
      (Definition 3)

      --
      Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
  78. A worse joke. by copponex · · Score: 1

    Blame my father twice for this one.

    It's Halloween, and a young boy is trick or treating all by himself. His costume is too big for him, and he nervously walks up to the first door. He knocks, and an older woman steps out, with a bucket of candy in her arms.

    "Trick or treat," he says quietly.

    "Well, well, a pirate! Tell me young man, where are your buccaneers?"

    The boy looks hurt and confused, and finally replies, "Under my buccan hat, lady."

  79. Any chance of a USB adapter? by erroneus · · Score: 1

    I'd love to use this for free wi-fi or some sort of wireless internet!

  80. The law goes both ways by mangu · · Score: 1

    Under what legal authority does Brazil have the right to facilitate this request?

    Under the Brazilian law statutes that regulate radio transmissions. If Brazilians are allowed to interfere with US satellites, then US citizens could also hijack Brazilian satellites

  81. Hijacking? by DinDaddy · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't piggybacking be a more accurate, or realistically, an accurate description? If I sneak onto a city bus and get a free ride to where I was going without diverting the bus, I'm pretty sure no one would accuse me of hijacking it.

  82. Instead of trying to suppress it... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Why not identify and agree to "CB" use on an identified subset of the transponded bandwidth and have the governments in question explicitly authorize that use?

    Then the people will get the service that they want and can get no other practical way, while the enforcement efforts can be focussed on a much smaller number of people who don't play by the rules - working outside the alloted band(s), using excessive power ("quieting" the other signals or running down the transponder power supply), or otherwise interfering with the operation of both the intended services and the other "CB" users.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  83. Re:Military Satellite Piracy is all fun and games by tecnico.hitos · · Score: 2, Funny

    Unless you have a club.

    --
    The good, the evil and the vacuum tubes.
  84. Ninjas? by DragonHawk · · Score: 1

    "Ninjas don't leave evidence nor any other trace , kinda part of being a ninja. "

    Then how the hell do we know about Ninjas in the first place?

    Reminds me of every time someone on the news talks about a "secret government project". If it's so bloody secret, why's it on the news? :)

    --

    dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
    1. Re:Ninjas? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We only know about ancient accounts from the medieval period, when Japan secluded itself from the outside world. As soon as the Japanese opened up, all traces of them existing anywhere in the present day vanished overnight. Coincidence? I think not.

  85. Give the birds to the people by KGBear · · Score: 1

    The US is looking for ways to change its image abroad. The US is about to replace these birds with something better. The Brazilians use this to communicate in places where they have no other option, like the Amazon rain forest. I'd say... Let them have it. Sure, charge something from the Brazilian government, but this would go a long way as a firendly gesture. It could also be extended to other Souht/Central American countries. Why not?

    Full disclosure: I'm Brazilian. I live in the US. I'm NOT a pirate. Or a ninja.

  86. Anybody is welcome to use it by gd23ka · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This has been going on for years. The US military operates vhf satellite relays
    that are open to anyone who knows position and up and downlink frequencies. I
    couldn't care any less about their relays being used by third parties, obviously
    they put no effort into securing them. Another thing is, if they're too upset about
    third parties using it, they can shut it down.

    As far as I'm concerned anybody is welcome to use these relays but that's just me.
    They could have fitted those realys with some sort of security mechanism such as a
    side channel to transmit/receive authentication data to activate the relaying of
    the main signal. That wasn't a priority then, why should it be now after the system has
    been in use for decades.

    What a bunch of sorry losers to agonize over this in the first place.

    1. Re:Anybody is welcome to use it by gd23ka · · Score: 1

      Oh ... yeah you'd think they would have thought of securing their relays
      but then they realized that could be used in denial of service. Duh come
      to think of it you would probably want a really stupid relay that someone
      might be able to jam for just a while until your military wireless gear
      software radio solution cuts through the interference. Well in that case
      you can't secure those things in the first place because that security
      could be used against you, so that means you have to operate open relays
      and you have the situation of third parties making use of them.

      Nothing they can do about it, except kill those 'pirates' (uuuh uuuh
      they're baaaad, they're all ciayda PIE-RATS).

  87. Re:Ninja apostrophe by X0563511 · · Score: 1

    Then take 5 seconds and GIMP it out. It's not like you need to screw with the kerning or anything.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  88. cqdx cqdx cqdx by gearloos · · Score: 1

    cqdx cqdx cqdx this is k6cia k6cia k6cia calling cqdx pse k

    --
    "Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
  89. A pirate is the whipping-boy of a ninja. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Notice how a ninja never fails. A ninja doesn't make a mistake. A ninja will even direct a pirate to dress-up as a ninja and make the mistake, and then slay the poor soul just to prove that pirates are dressing up as ninjas to pretend that there is a feud. The truth is that there is no feud. This world is owned by someone that is so subtle as a ninja that it is impossible to prove that the ninjas run this world but by circular reasoning because it will always be blamed on the pirates. Amazing...

    But what we will never see is that the pirates actually invented the ninjas just to strawman this blame game into lighter prison sentences. This so a pirate can always be ingeniously sloppy and easily advantaged over because the subtle ninja has written the future onto his heart...

  90. A bit of clarification. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First of all, I should apologize for just reading the abstract and not the linked article. My bad.

    Also, I just focused on this pirate terminology. As it happens, there are totally pacific uses, like celebrating one's team victory, and criminal uses, like what those whose ilegally extract wood from the rainforest do. Of course I can't condone this.

    Finally, my post about using things implies just the use without any loss for the owner. In the bad example of the trucks, gas would have to be returned to the truck owners, lest one could really call this truck borrowing a gas theft.

    In this present situation, I cannot infer whether the satellites were or not in use.

    Still, if they really are military sattelites there's an added problem of secrecy. I hope they have just used the little balls, without snooping around.

    Even if they are innocent, it's a good idea not to meddle with military equipment.

  91. Re:The definition of "Pirate", among other things. by Sique · · Score: 1

    My most hateloved word in this case is "studio". It still means "I strive (for something)" in Latin.

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  92. Note: NOT legitimate Amateur Radio operators! by brindafella · · Score: 1

    Please note, these are NOT legitimate Amateur Radio operators, nor are they operating through Amateur Radio satellites.

    The 'pirates' are heavily modifying the commercially available Amateur Radio transceivers with 'outboard' devices to be able to use these 'bent-pipe' transponders (what goes in comes back out) on the US military satellites.

    At the end of the story, the Brazillian Amateur Radio operator, at a meeting with other Amateurs, demonstrates a radio that (legally) can listen to the transmissions from these US military satellites (how does any government stop the use of a radio receiver).

    This is NOT a story about "rogues in Amateur Radio"; this IS a story about people subverting a valuable public resource (Amateur Radio, and the US military satellites).

    _.. . ._ _. ._ _ _ ._ _ . .._ ._. !

    --
    Looking at space, radio, science and computing from a 'down-under' amateur enthusiast perspective.
  93. Re:Ninja apostrophe by Fred_A · · Score: 1

    Those Ninjas with Guitars would truly be awesome if the artist took the misplaced apostrophe out of its title.

    Or he should at least be coherent about it : "Ninja's with guitar's" would be more like it.

    If you like apostrophes, you have to go all the way !

    --

    May contain traces of nut.
    Made from the freshest electrons.
  94. Footprint question by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    While it is possible to look this info up, I wonder which FLTSATCOM's are being used this way? I would think that Brazil is well outside of the footprint of any current wars. Still lots of stuff going on over Colombia tho.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  95. Re:Ninja apostrophe by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

    You mean an apostrophe doesn't mean "OH NOES HERE COMES AN S?"

    Preposterou's!

    --
    Man, you really need that seminar!
  96. Heh. by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

    This sounds like a problem that could easily be solved with some radar-seeking missiles tuned to the appropriate frequency. I bet the problem would stop pretty quickly.