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Gamefly Complains of Poor Treatment From USPS

Gamefly, the popular video game rental service that operates through the mail, has filed a complaint with the Postal Regulatory Commission about the high number of games that are lost or stolen in the mail. The complaint (PDF) asserts that the postal service's automated sorting machines have a tendency to break a small percentage of discs, and that preferential treatment is given to DVD rental services like Netflix and Blockbuster. "According to Gamefly's numbers, it mails out 590,000 games and receives 510,000 games back from subscribers a month. The company sees, depending on the mailer, between one and two percent of its games broken in transit. ... Even if you assume the number is one percent, and a game costs $50 to replace, that's an astounding $295,000 a month in lost merchandise. ... That's not the only issue — games are also stolen in transit, which has lead to the arrest of 19 Postal Service employees."

269 comments

  1. Heh heh.. riiight by TinBromide · · Score: 5, Funny

    Those lost game disks were lost in the mail... Heh heh... *hides stack of reported "lost" disks under the couch* Nothing to see here, move along!

    --
    Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
    1. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Read the summary. Postal employees have been arrested for stealing the games. Games are being broken in transit. It doesn't sound like their customers are the biggest problem.

      I'm modding you down for being stupid.

    2. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry guy, but you kinda deserve it. It wasn't that funny, and it was pretty stupid.

      BTW, not the same as anon above.

    3. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by mysidia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ass. (Article summary says): high number of games that are lost or stolen in the mail. ... have a tendency to break a small percentage of discs

      Note the major problem is lost items, not 'broken items' is a side issue of less significance.

      So how can you tell that the 'high percentage of (disks) lost' in the mail were really 'lost in the mail' and not merely reported as such?

    4. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way to be a dick; I chuckled.

    5. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would mod you up if I had any points. There is obviously more reason to 'steal' games than movies as movies are easy to get from bootleggers/internet. Therefore it makes perfect sense that more games would be 'lost in the mail' than movies.

      Posting anonymously as it's obvious current moderators are using mod points incorrectly.

    6. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Allot of companies that send things by mail stick their own address labels to the outside of the parcel. By that I mean an address label with the company logo.

      If you see a parcel tagged with the Netflix logo I think you can have a good guess at the contents.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    7. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      FYI - Netflix makes no pretense at hiding what they are mailing. Their packaging is a bright red pseudo-envelope with large-print "Netflix" branding all over it.

      The vast majority of postal employees would never even consider stealing mail of any kind, ever. And of the few that might, most recognize that losing their job over a $50 game CD isn't worth it.

      There are of course immoral and IQ-challenged people everywhere, and a very few bad apples do occasionally make the rest look bad. This of course applies to any business, not just the USPS.

    8. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      movies are easy to get from bootleggers/internet

      So are games. Either you don't realize the quantity of brand-new games available for download or I'm entirely missing your point.

    9. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Perhaps it's the price difference between the games and the movies. You could probably pick up the same random Netflix disk in your local Walmart for under $5. Even a new movie on DVD would only cost $30 tops.

      Now consider that the console games are routinely selling for $50. If you were to chose therefore between stealing a Neflix package and a Gamefly package, which one would you take?

    10. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Tampering with the mail is a felony, and they take it very seriously, which makes the USPS one of the safest systems in the world. It is one of the things that America does extremely well and even the European Post Systems are poor in comparison (especially after Germany privatized parts of their system).

      I never used Gamefly, but if it's like Netflix, the entire problem of these things is that both the original and return envelope clearly mark the contents. Something like delivery confirmation, which a small business owner can get for $0.18 a package using endicia (small volume discount rate, nothing like size of gamefly), could probably track down the problem areas in a short time (USPS del. conf. get scanned at hops). However, regulations are such that del. conf. can only be used on "parcels", a bubble-mailer counts - which for DVD movies probably raise the cost significantly for both packaging and processing (hence mailing cost).

      Discreet, otherwise unmarked envelopes with several return destinations that don't use "Gamefly Return Center" or whatever in the addressee's name probably would be the best way to go, Netflix, IIRC, used Tyvek envelopes. Or put it in an AOL wrapper, no postal employee would steal those ;) although that runs the risk of being trashed by the end user.

      Makes me curious what the various XXX services see on stolen discs.

    11. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by KDR_11k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Stolen games run on unmodded consoles.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    12. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by digitig · · Score: 5, Funny

      So how can you tell that the 'high percentage of (disks) lost' in the mail were really 'lost in the mail' and not merely reported as such?

      The arrests may be a clue. If they translate into prosecutions they will be an even bigger clue. If they translate into convictions, I reckon they've nailed it.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    13. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by mochan_s · · Score: 1

      Those lost game disks were lost in the mail... Heh heh... *hides stack of reported "lost" disks under the couch* Nothing to see here, move along!

      Why doesn't USPS track every piece of mail that the sender voluntarily puts a bar code on it? Like a universal "delivery confirmation" system that is a real-time tracking system and not a delivery confirmation system that only updates once a day?

      The time to scan those barcodes which get bent and unscannable is a problem but if they made a pocket scanner that can scan mail hands-free by the postman, it would solve the problem as each piece of mail is looked at.

      Making tampering and stealing mail a felony is the only thing that has kept USPS sort of safe by not making it worth the trouble. USPS insurance is extremely over-priced and dealing with the insurance division is a nightmare.

      I had a package lost I had insurance on. Every time I called they would say, "sir, my system is currently down. Could you please call back in a couple of hours?". I would call back and they would say the same thing again. Granted, I thought it was system trouble and I called back in 2 days. I get the same response, "my system is down, ..." I call back after 1 week and the system is still down. So, I kept calling until I got someone who didn't claim their system was down.

      I still think USPS does a great job with the volume of mail that goes through them. But, I'm astounded that their tracking system is so bad: it's not even called tracking but delivery confirmation.

    14. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by LingNoi · · Score: 1

      The vast majority of postal employees would never even consider stealing mail of any kind, ever.

      I have a friend who works for Royal Mail, (postal service in the UK) who says stealing DVDs is the norm. Anything from Amazon or Play for example in a DVD sized package and it's gone.

    15. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm. And here I thought I had to mod my console before I could steal a game. Serves me right for listening to those "pro-IP" lunatics.

    16. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      note: i'm assuming this conversation is about console games since afaict noone rents PC games

      You can play a pirate movie on any dvd player. To play a pirate console game OTOH you have to find somewhere that is prepared to chip it, pay them to do so and in the process void your warranty.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    17. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well respected titles in fact are $60 at release, and that's if you don't want the legendary special collectors edition with free toy.

    18. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      Why doesn't USPS track every piece of mail that the sender voluntarily puts a bar code on it?

      Because scanning, maintaining, and providing a database has a non-zero cost.

      UPS does so because you can't ship anything through them for less than $3 or so. USPS moves most of its mail for $.40, and some even less than that.

    19. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by TinBromide · · Score: 1

      US Certified has barcodes and requires a signature, but it costs 3x the cost of a first class stamp.

      --
      Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
    20. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by mister.f · · Score: 1

      However, regulations are such that del. conf. can only be used on "parcels", a bubble-mailer counts - which for DVD movies probably raise the cost significantly for both packaging and processing (hence mailing cost).

      That seems pretty stupid, here in the UK, you can get delivery confirmation for any item posted

    21. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SugarDVD changed their envelope style a few months back.

      I also noticed that when mailing them back from work that they took about 3 days longer to arrive.

      I don't doubt that people "borrow" or outright the DVDs once they catch on what is inside those bland blue envelopes.

    22. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes me curious what the various XXX services see on stolen discs.

      Sending pornography through the USPS is a federal offense.

    23. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by GKThursday · · Score: 1

      They will be, it's the reasons for the new postal barcode called the "Intelligent Mail Barcode." (IMB)
      The current barcode (Postnet Barcode) cannot be used for tracking, it only has delivery information in it. Every piece of mail to your address has the same barcode, that makes it impossible to tack.
      The IMB will have the option of being serial numbered, and tracked through to the destination Post Office. They are not considering scanning at the delivery point, because of the volume of mail (average of 4.7 pieces per stop) that is delivered makes manual scanning impracticable.
      Now the real question is will any of the big mailers avail themselves of this feature? Probably not many. BOA might, Citi might, but Netflix won't.
      Netflix knows that you only get good scan logs with Confirm service if your pieces are processed on Delivery Point Sequencers, and they also know that most of their mail is not (and almost none of their return mail is). because the mailers are truly non-machinable.
      The uncentered disk causes too many jams in the outbound processing, and the return envelope usually folds in half, covering the address. Because of this they have no incentive to pay $25,000.00 per year to find out their discs aren't being scanned, they already know that.
      I seem to recall that the OIG wrote to Netflix telling them to redesign or else, but I'm not sure if anything came from it.

    24. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by joocemann · · Score: 1

      Here's my question, regarding your topic.

      Since deliberate tampering of mail is a felony, what would blatant negligence equate to?

      The USPS is notorious for losing your mail. It's not just Gamefly. I would guess that approximately 2% of my own mail also never makes it to me or its destination.

      Here's my second question.. WHERE THE HELL IS IT?!?!?! Does it not at least get found on the floor somewhere and then get looked at? I mean... 2%... dude... THATS A LOT OF MAIL! WHERE THE HELL IS IT!?!?!?!

    25. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by guyminuslife · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, it isn't.

      Sending obscenity through the USPS is a federal offense. What obscenity is exactly is not very well-defined, but it is not the same as pornography.

      The United States Postal Service will dutifully deliver your Girls Gone Wild DVDs with vigor and spunk.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    26. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by guardian-ct · · Score: 1

      2% of your own mail never gets there? Contact the postal inspectors. My experience is more like 100% makes it to the destination, as far as I can tell.

    27. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by joocemann · · Score: 1

      wow. very helpful man! Next time I get shorted or my check doesn't make it to my credit card company, I'm totally gonna use this! I had no idea there was a way to say something about it!

    28. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by longacre · · Score: 2, Funny

      Their aggressive use of drop shadow in the banner on top of their page surely strikes fear into the heart of any postal thief.

    29. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is one of the things that America does extremely well and even the European Post Systems are poor in comparison (especially after Germany privatized parts of their system).

      I can't decide... are you an arrogant (US-)American, a self-deprecating German, or do you actually have any data on how the various postal systems around the world (or at least in the western world) compare to each other?

    30. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by carou · · Score: 1

      ... the USPS one of the safest systems in the world. It is one of the things that America does extremely well and even the European Post Systems are poor in comparison

      [citation needed]

    31. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by torkus · · Score: 1

      18c is a very large increase in delivery fees. Granted netflix is an order of magnitude (or more) bigger than gamefly but their total cost per shipped DVD is something like 60-80c each. This includes labor to "rip" the DVD out of the mailer, check it for defects, scan it back into the system, pack it in the new outgoing mailer, and ship it.

      Even if they paid 1/4 of that (about 4c) that's a significant added cost.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    32. Re:Heh heh.. riiight by mysidia · · Score: 1

      It's more likely that the credit card company lost the message (accidentally), or they received the check, but decided to periodically tear one up, so they could charge you late fee + interest instead of accepting payment.

      The postal service isn't that unreliable. Although some mailboxes may be (there is a possibility someone steals the mail from your mailbox after you drop it in and raise the flag for a postal worker to pick it up).

  2. That's why I quit Zip.ca by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This sounds a lot like the reason I quit Zip.ca (Canadian Netflix). 3 DVDs within 3 months failed to end up win my locked mailbox (I live in an apartment). With all the time I spent with my account on hold while they investigated the lost DVDs, I didn't get to make very good use of my membership. I can only imagine the problem would be worse with games, where they are worth quite a bit more $50 vs. $20 (many DVDs are $10 or less). Also, with no signature required for the discs, I'm sure a lot of people are just reporting that the disc never made it to them, or saying they sent it back when they didn't, and keeping it for themselves.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    1. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by SailorSpork · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At least with NetFlix if you get tired of the Postal problems and broken/scratched discs, you can look for something to stream. If it wasn't for the streaming stuff, I'd have canceled by now. The last disc I ordered a month ago is sitting waiting for me to do something with it while I have more fun streaming old Doctor Who and Red Dwarf episodes on demand.

      Unfortunately, there's no real equivalent for streaming NetFlix style games... yet.

    2. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by j0nb0y · · Score: 1

      Yeah, seriously.

      Steam needs a rental service =]

      --
      If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
    3. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Informative
    4. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've rented 533 DVDs from Zip in nearly 5 years. 0 have been lost, and 0 have been stolen. I have lived in a house and I've lived in an apartment (locked mailbox). You must have had some pretty bad luck :(

    5. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by rm999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or a single bad postal employee...

    6. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by glitch23 · · Score: 1

      You bring up a good point. Why is a movie that can cost $100 million to make cost $25 on disc but a game that cost $15 million to make cost $50 on disc? Is the volume of DVD sales that much bigger to explain the large difference in retail price?

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    7. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      Speaking of Netflix streaming...

      Has anyone gotten Netflix streaming to work in Windows Firefox under Wine? Netflix claims that their streaming service works with Firefox 2 or greater on XP or Vista, but when I run Firefox under Wine it tells me I don't have a compatible browser...

    8. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by iocat · · Score: 1

      Yes. (also, movies make back their expenses -- ideally -- from the box office)

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    9. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Yes, most people are honest and wouldn't steal even if they knew they had a 100% chance of getting away with it. But there are bound to be a few bad eggs out there and the more times a parcel changes hands the higher it's risk of passing through a dishonest person.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    10. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by WGFCrafty · · Score: 5, Informative

      That is not the equivalent of a streaming Netflix style games.

      Netflix streams movies and tv shows to my xbox that are on par with regular tv quality. Netflix even streams shows from this year and last year, newer things.

      Gametap lets you play games over the internet, and it doesn't really even stream them. It makes you download an application, and then download the games you want and then play them.

      Gametap is more like a licensed emulator: you pay a monthly fee to play games from the early to mid 90s.

    11. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Way back in the day, I used to be a netflix customer. About once a month, a movie would go missing. Always on the return, always a title like Breast Monsters from Jupiter. Not a single title went missing on its way to me and mainstream movies never went missing. First, Netflix tried to tell me that my mailbox was insecure. An asinine suggestion since the titles never went missing on their way TO me. And irrelevant as the mail dropped through a slot into a locked room. Then they suggested I could start paying for delivery confirmation or return my discs via UPS (both options at my expense). WTF?!?

      I told them that it was pretty clear they had an internal theft problem because the pattern was obvious. Someone was grabbing "embarrassing" titles, hoping that the renter would be to flustered to make a fuss. "Absolutely not. There is no way our employees would be stealing movies. Blah, blah, blah."

      Then they locked my account and sent me a bill - A BILL! - for the full retail value of the missing titles. Wrong f'ing move. But, before I worked up a righteous head of steam, I got an apology, my account was unlocked, and I was told to ignore the previous request for payment. A few days later, a story about the arrest of a bunch of Netflix employees hit the news. Surprise, surprise, surprise. They'd been stealing movies as they were returned by customers. Wish I could find an article about that incident. All I can find are the stories about various USPS employees being arrested for theft of Netflix discs.

      As soon as I confirmed my account was in good standing, I closed it. Buncha tools.

    12. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1, Funny

      "3 DVDs within 3 months failed to end up win my locked mailbox"

      Id tht how babby be formed?
      instain?

    13. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Well, games pander to a very niche market currently while DVDs sell to the wide masses.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    14. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by MaineCoon · · Score: 1

      There are a lot of games on there from the last 5 years, even up to today (Codemasters was talking about simul or near simul releases of their catalog).

      I was playing and beating the Sam and Max episodes on Gametap 2 weeks before they were available for general purchase; played the whole season and my 1 year subscription cost less than buying them (after I beat a game I don't play it a second time).

      Only the old games are emulated, at that. They use a virtual disk system and streaming method for prioritized and on-demand disk segment delivery - download the parts necessary to get started playing, then stream the rest as you play.

      --
      Hunt your preferred prey at Aliens vs Predator MUD. Join the war at avpmud.com port 4000
    15. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by LingNoi · · Score: 1, Insightful

      As soon as I confirmed my account was in good standing, I closed it. Buncha tools.

      As you should have. A good company would have given you credit or something free, not just a shitty apology for wasting your time and calling you a criminal.

    16. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      A signature does not matter. The postal service here in Germany (Deutsche Post, post office in Gütersloh) simply forged my signature to blame it on me. I have paper proof of that in my archive.
      But I would have to sue them first, which would cost me more.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    17. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, they don't. I'm still waiting for closed captions, 1080i and dolby digital in my netflix "on demand". regular, digital tv is here. Netflix streaming really doesn't compare.

    18. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Repeat after me: "whatever the market will bear". Understanding capitalism FAIL.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Repeat after me: "competition". A monopoly can charge whatever the market will bear. A healthy competitive industry will undercut each other until profit margins are as low as they can reasonably be taken.

      There's a reason why it's called supply and demand, not just demand.

    20. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Repeat after me: "competition". A monopoly can charge whatever the market will bear. A healthy competitive industry will undercut each other until profit margins are as low as they can reasonably be taken.

      Movies and games are monopoly products, thanks to copyright. If I don't like the price Microsoft is charging for Halo 3, I don't have the option to buy Halo 3 from someone else at a better price: I can either buy it at Microsoft's price or not buy it at all.

      And since these are such matters of personal taste (and network effect), other products might not be able to substitute. That is, if I'm looking for Halo 3, I'm probably not going to settle for Animal Crossing instead -- maybe not even for another FPS.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    21. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by Belial6 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Wrong.
      • Netflix has a VERY limited amount of brand new content. Gametap has a limited selection of brand new content.
      • Netflix has a lot of medium aged and old content. Gametap has a lot of medium aged an old content.
      • Netflix has video on par with the quality of TV. Gametap gives you the exact same game with the exact same quality as the retail package.
      • Netflix lets you start watching the movie before the whole thing is downloaded. Gametap lets you play the game before the whole thing is downloaded.**

      It sounds more like you just don't really want a service like streaming Netflix for games, but that you want a service that is dramatically better than Netflix, and do not accept service levels similar to Netflix for your gaming.

      ** It is true that many of the older games download so fast that the whole thing gets downloaded faster than Netflix can start playing it's stream, so those games do get downloaded completely before play.

    22. Re:That's why I quit Zip.ca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what I think. They that it was sent back and it wasnt. Why would a postal employee steal a dumb kids game? They must play them on their route?? lol... I hope Gamefly thought very hard and has proof before making a claim like they did... false reporting is ALSO a Felony =)

  3. Dying industry by mc1138 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seems like this is just one more nail in the coffin for the USPS. Seriously, without services like this, they'd probably already be out of business. Since 1973 they've been a state sponsored monopoly rather than an actual branch of the government. I don't see it being too much longer that they're allowed sole right to transfer first class mail with both UPS and FedEx waiting in the wings to offer better more reliable service.

    1. Re:Dying industry by BitZtream · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You really should hope they stick around. For all its 'crappiness' USPS isn't THAT bad, and if they disappear it'll get ridiculously expensive to mail a simple letter via UPS/DHL/FedEx/Whoever. Look at the cost to send a normal one page letter via the USPS versus anyone else. Do you want your phone bill to go up $4 every month because it costs them that much to send it to you? And water, electric, cable, ect? You can probably get most of them electronically, but not all and I'd rather keep my money thanks to the USPS charging them a quarter rather than 4 bucks. If UPS charged them 4, they'll raise the bill 6 or 7.

      I bet it would cut down on the number of incorrectly addressed items I get. Maybe whoever keeps mailing 'Current Resident' would finally have to get a real business model instead.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    2. Re:Dying industry by Wingman+5 · · Score: 1

      Sole right? when has the USPS stopped you from going to FedEx, UPS, DHL, ect. However, the USPS must deliver to all US territories, no complaint. Now there is not many locations that a private service does not go to that the USPS does, however I will put money on that when the space program starts going regularly to other planets the post office will offer service at least several years before you see a UPS uniform on the mars.

    3. Re:Dying industry by hedwards · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're technically correct, but factually way off. Yes the USPS has a monopoly over mailboxes and the term "first class mail" but that's really not the kind of impediment to competition that you might think. It merely means that other companies focus on markets that are more lucrative.

      The building that I work in gets shipments from at least a dozen different couriers and shipping companies. That doesn't strike me as a particularly effective monopoly.

    4. Re:Dying industry by RyoShin · · Score: 1, Insightful

      More reliable service? I've worked in a UPS plant. I now prefer to ship FedEx.

      Also, if the UPS plant was any indication, UPS (and maybe FedEx and DHL) would have to do massive upgrades and changes to handle the basic mail that flows through the USPS system.

      I have no problem with the USPS being in place. Furthermore, I can't see any problem that USPS is having that UPS or FedEx couldn't have themselves. Considering the necessity that postal mail still is, I'd prefer to leave it to the government. Privatization would only increase costs and lower service. You would also wind up with the last-mile problems of broadband. While UPS does deliver packages to my town, it has no regular drop-off location, and I have to drive 45 minutes if I want to ship UPS or FedEx. Obviously they would open more branches if there was suddenly a shift, but there would still be a period where many towns would be crippled in some fashion.

      I'm fine with decreasing the services offered by USPS, though.

    5. Re:Dying industry by BZ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > when has the USPS stopped you from going to FedEx, UPS, DHL, ect.

      For sending, never.

      However, the primary customer of all those services is the sender. They couldn't care less about the recipient, except insofar as it might piss off the sender. And they're aimed primarily at the business market with their delivery times. And on the receiving end, USPS sometimes has special privileges.

      Case in point: in Chicago, the USPS, unlike all the other entities you mention, has master keys to the front doors of many apartment buildings (NOT the individual apartment doors). They need these so that they can get to the mailboxes, which are inside the lobby area. This means they can also leave packages in the lobby area, instead of out on the street (or not at all, which is what all the other services will do). If a package actually requires a signature and they keep missing you, getting to the local post office in a city is a lot easier than getting to whatever boondocks location FedEx and company want you to go to for picking up the package (a 30 minute drive from where I was in the case of UPS; completely inaccessible without a car).

      Totally agreed with your other point, though. I doubt UPS and FedEx deliver to the US territory which is the south pole station in Antarctica, for example.

    6. Re:Dying industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      USPS charging them a quarter rather than 4 bucks

      Not quite how it works for large volume mailers (which is why we still receive snail-spam).
      Plus, if UPS/FedEx started carrying everyone's standard mail their costs would drop because they would be far less specialized.

    7. Re:Dying industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think DHL went out of business.

    8. Re:Dying industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the US postal system really that useless? I just sent a package with Canada Post's overnight service, and it arrived the next morning as promised, all for more than $10 less than FedEx or UPS would've cost (and with extra insurance, too!).

      Similarly, I order some things from Switzerland on a regular basis, and their standard airmail service has never failed to make it to Canada in a week or less. This is excellent, considering lettermail often takes a week to travel from one side of Canada to the other, if you don't pay for a time guarantee.

    9. Re:Dying industry by gandhi_2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I was about to say something like "it's cheap unless you consider taxes"...but thought I'd better check on that. And bigger than shit was I wrong. The USPS actually runs on it's own sales. I guess I'll STFU now.

    10. Re:Dying industry by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Sorry if I'm way off base here, but I'm assuming the US Postal Service works similarly to the Canadian one. In Canada if you miss your package, they leave a receipt in your mail box, and tell you to pick it up at the nearest "post office". I put post office in quotes because the post office is usually the neighbourhood pharmacy or convenience store, where they have a little counter in the back where you can pick up your packages. I really don't understand why UPS, Fedex, et al couldn't work out a similar deal with local stores to act as pick up places for packages. It's not like there's some sort of law restricting this process. Dry cleaners do it all the time. My basic guess is, is that courier services really only care about delivering to businesses. They charge rates only businesses would pay, and therefore, their residential customers are almost nil. So they don't focus on the market, and for personal use, most people find that their service is terrible.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    11. Re:Dying industry by mysidia · · Score: 5, Informative

      The reason it is more expensive is it is required by law, as in the United States, the USPS is a state-protected monopoly whose rights and position are made exclusive by law, and in exchange for that, their price is regulated, and their competitors are legally required to charge a higher price.

      It is in fact illegal to compete with the USPS, but there is a narrowly carved exception that other mail services utilize.

      The two laws involved are the Private Express Statutes and the Mailbox Access rule.

      The Mailbox access rule gives the postal service exclusive access to the customer mailboxes. Your mailbox is federal property, and it would be criminal trespass, and a felony under federal law for any employee of a competitor to deposit mail in anyone's mailbox.

      The Private Express statute refers to a group of laws that make certain acts federal crime and also civilly actionable offenses for any organization or employee of an organization to deliver mail other than the postal service.

      COMPETING carriers like Fedex, UPS, etc, cannot LEGALLY deliver non-urgent mail, without employees being thrown in jail, and their company having to pay massive fines, except if certain special conditions are ensured. All these conditions force the price to be much higher than USPS cost for the customer.

      The special exception that allows third-party mail services to deliver letters refers to "extremely urgent letters". One way a competitor is permitted is that the delivery of the letter must cost the greater of $3 or "twice the First Class US mail service would cost"

      Other exceptions would be "Lawful Private Carriage" exception, which requires that the US Postage be paid in addition to the private mail delivery service's fees (i.e. an agreement is required with the USPS, and standard postage affixed to the letter, and the postage cancelled upon receipt, ON TOP of the private carrier's fee).

    12. Re:Dying industry by wgoodman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      on the other hand.. I ordered a package over a month ago that was shipped via usps. for some random reason, they decided that my address did not exist (i found this out via their nearly useless tracking function for certain shipments) after i saw that it had been rejected (it had never actually left the post office to go on a delivery, they said they had rejected it before it made it on a truck) i went in, and showed them a package that ups had delivered with the exact same address. i was told that there was nothing that they could do and that the package was already on route to the sender. 3 days later, the tracking info AGAIN said that they had tried to deliver it but it was undeliverable as addressed. after i went back in, they searched for it, couldn't find it and i was told that it had been returned. that was 3 weeks ago, neither the shipper nor the local post office has seen it. it doesn't matter how cheap something is if they can't actually manage to do the job they're hired for. it's generally worth sending packages via any route but the usps since at least it's not a lottery as to if it'll get there or not.

    13. Re:Dying industry by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      In terms of actual performance, I have not had serious problems with USPS. I often ship anywhere between one and ten packages on a given business day by USPS for nearly four years and I don't recall a domestic package being lost in all that time. We can argue the merits or lack of in public vs. private ownership and operation, but it's actually very good performance, I've had worse troubles with UPS and FedEx.

      UPS Ground and FedEx Ground are roughly equivalent in speed to First Class Mail, and they usually charge $4 or more per package than First Class Mail unless it's a heavy package. That can add up to a lot of money and possible lost sales.

    14. Re:Dying industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is another reason i actually do serious replies on slashdot less and less. everything is a nail in someones coffin and the end for some entity bigger than most european governments is dying because some slashdont brain trust who can't get beyond the geek squad in his own life is modded up +5 insightful.

      the fact is that 99.95% of all people who use these systems, whether they be microsoft, usps, major music labels, etc etc etc don't see the world in the same light as most of the people here and use their products and pay openly for them because they think it's a good deal. that's the way it's going to be for some time to come and people who defy this system are going to get the beat down. we've seen it time and time again.

      you're not insightful. usps isn't going anywhere until people stop getting products in the mail. decades and decades of security there. and even when it does become unprofitable, weak and frail the government will prop them up like they did with the railroads in the lean times. the public will let the usps run in the red for even a few more decades before someone sticks a fork in their ass for once and for all.

    15. Re:Dying industry by eln · · Score: 1

      I think DHL went out of business.

      Not quite. They ended domestic parcel service in the US, but they still do international shipping.

    16. Re:Dying industry by kentrel · · Score: 1

      Europe got rid of postal monopolies, and the vast majority if not all are either privatised or soon to be. Mail here is cheap and reliable. I've never had a DVD broken or go missing either.

    17. Re:Dying industry by BZ · · Score: 1

      > if you miss your package, they leave a receipt in your mail box, and tell you to pick it
      > up at the nearest "post office".

      Typically it's not the nearest one but the nearest "big" one. At least in my experience.

      > I put post office in quotes because the post office is usually the neighbourhood
      > pharmacy or convenience store

      Definitely not my experience with the USPS.

      > I really don't understand why UPS, Fedex, et al couldn't work out a similar deal
      > with local stores

      They could, but it would cost them money. And since the package recipient is not their customer, it's not worth it to them. Which is precisely the problem with said companies.

      > My basic guess is, is that courier services really only care about delivering to
      > businesses.

      They certainly operate as if that were the case.

      > They charge rates only businesses would pay, and therefore, their residential customers
      > are almost nil.

      That doesn't follow, since the rate is paid by the _sender_. Their residential senders are nil. Their residential _recipients_ are anyone who buys stuff online, basically. Very few e-tailers have the option of shipping via USPS, because for them the courier services offer all sorts of conveniences (e.g. package pickup).

      So yes, the courier services are terrible for recipients, good for senders. The senders are the ones paying them; the rest follows from this.

    18. Re:Dying industry by wbren · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you want your phone bill to go up $4 every month because it costs them that much to send it to you? And water, electric, cable, ect? You can probably get most of them electronically, but not all and I'd rather keep my money thanks to the USPS charging them a quarter rather than 4 bucks. If UPS charged them 4, they'll raise the bill 6 or 7.

      Actually, I'd be willing to bet most people can get all of them electronically, and pay them electronically too. Companies that don't support electronic bills and correspondence will simply fail to compete and die off. That's progress.

      I can't remember the last time I mailed a letter. It must have been 2002 or thereabouts. Only official documents that need to be signed and mailed are worth mailing, and I send those UPS/FedEx because they arrive faster and have reliable tracking (USPS tracking is a joke). And extra couple bucks to mail one document every few years isn't a big price to pay.

      I realize not everyone has such little dependence on the USPS. I'm just saying that they should.

      --
      -William Brendel
    19. Re:Dying industry by chewedtoothpick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is nothing which prevents any person from installing a secondary mailbox similar to those used by us in more rural areas for newspapers.

      I hate government sponsored monopolies as much as anyone else, but the USPS actually provides a rather critical service even in these days of easily accessible alternatives such as e-mail. Without the pressure of the USPS being able to provide affordable prices for shipping to more poorly covered or less easily accessed areas (such as Alaska and Hawaii) only the people in major metropolitan areas would receive reasonable parcel and letter services. As much as that may not affect you there are still many millions of other people who are equally as valuable and important to you who would be royally bunged if things happened the way you obviously wish.

      --
      Erutangis ym si siht.
    20. Re:Dying industry by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      That's because there are consequents for private carriers.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    21. Re:Dying industry by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      There are many places in the US that operate exactly on this sort of principle, whether it be on behalf of the USPS, UPS, FedEX, or whatnot. There are also many places that don't. The circumstances of a particular area are as varied as the country is large.

      As far as end-user service is concerned, the differences I have noted between USPS, UPS, and FedEx are mostly negligible. Prices for comparable services are fairly competitive as of the last time I was shipping large numbers of packages. The only difference is that the USPS can deliver non-urgent letters, while other carriers are prohibited by law from doing so. Their insurance claim process does stand out as being much more drawn-out (2.5 months to wait from send date to claim filing for anything non-priority) than any other carrier service I've ever had to file a claim with.

    22. Re:Dying industry by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a sender that shipped piles of packages via USPS, I recommend using either their online website or other 3rd party software that does an on-line check of the address and provides suggestions or corrections to incorrect shipping addresses. This saved a number of my customers hassles when they posted an invalid shipping address with their payment. Still can't fix an incorrect but valid address.

    23. Re:Dying industry by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 1

      Where I live the post office is the only place that gets anything delivered. UPS and FedEx drop everything off there, and it gets put in my box.

      It causes a huge problem with ordering stuff because many stupid retailers will leave the po box # off because its a fedex package, but when it gets to the post office they have nothing to do with it and it gets returned. Others scan for anything that looks like a box # (ie pob #, PO Box #, #) and reject it forth right.

        I now am boycotting newegg entirely just for that. In fact, even if i wanted to order anything from them anymore they have made it 100% impossible for me to do so.

      I hardly see fed ex and ups eager to take up the slack if USPS got shut down. More than likely, Id have to start paying a hefty premium to get residential deliveries.

    24. Re:Dying industry by CatBegemot · · Score: 1

      Aren't "we, the people" who pay for stuff we order online are the ones who actually pay for it?

    25. Re:Dying industry by BZ · · Score: 1

      No, we're not (even ignoring the various "free shipping" setups that places like Amazon have on orders of sufficient size). More precisely, we don't pay for it from the point of view of the courier services. We're not the ones who actually give them money, and we're not the ones (more importantly!) who decide which service to ship with. We can certainly vote with our wallets and not shop at merchants who ship via shipping services that are too big a hassle for us, but in practice that doesn't happen on a wide enough scale to have an effect.

    26. Re:Dying industry by physicsphairy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is nothing which prevents any person from installing a secondary mailbox similar to those used by us in more rural areas for newspapers.

      The first problem is that this requires an action on behalf of the recipient who usually incurs no visible cost, while the (visible) benefit is to the sender.

      The only reason for newspaper stations in rural areas is because in that scenario the recipients actually make things more convenient for themselves and protect their paper from wildlife, etc.

      The second problem is that these "fake" mailboxes would not have the same legal protection. It would not be a felony to mess with them, or to steal the contents. Mail frequently contains confidential and financial items, and there is no way for corporations to punish their employees or individuals to seek restitution to a degree that would have the same level of deterrence.

      Without the pressure of the USPS being able to provide affordable prices for shipping to more poorly covered or less easily accessed areas (such as Alaska and Hawaii) only the people in major metropolitan areas would receive reasonable parcel and letter services. As much as that may not affect you there are still many millions of other people who are equally as valuable and important to you who would be royally bunged if things happened the way you obviously wish.

      Hawaii is already "bunged" by having to import everything. I would think the most important commodity price on the mind of the poor would be food, which isn't usually sent by USPS. Should we be subsidizing all of their clothing etc. too to make sure it doesn't cost any more to live in Hawaii than it does to live in Texas? They are kind of compensated by living in an island paradise. Why should we foot the cost for that?

      It seems to me this is the sort of social service that would be best provided by the states: Hawaii from taxes on their high class resorts and tourism and Alaska from its profitable petroleum exports.

      (Although I am still not convinced that the prices would substantially increase if the USPS was fundamentally replaced or fairly competed with.)

    27. Re:Dying industry by uofitorn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because as we all know, personal anecdotes are indicative of the industry as a whole.

      --
      "What kind of music do pirates listen to?" -Paul Maud'dib
      "Yeeeaaarrrrr n' Bee!!" -Stilgar, Leader of Sietch Tabr
    28. Re:Dying industry by honkycat · · Score: 1

      There is nothing which prevents any person from installing a secondary mailbox

      Well, except for the other bits of law cited by the OP that make it illegal for anyone to operate a viable business that competes with the USPS for basic postal service...

      (disclosure: I am taking OP at face value; I know nothing about these laws, nor have I bothered to verify anything he said, but it seems plausible to me)

    29. Re:Dying industry by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have lived in the United States and of course in Canada. I can tell you from a completely unbiased view point that compared to Canada, the USPS is phenomenal, kicks ass, the greatest thing since sliced bread, the cat's ass, wunderbar, etc. etc. etc.

      In Canada, if you live in a subdivision newer than something like 1978 (already getting pretty old), you will never get a letter delivered to your door. Instead they have a ridiculous setup called 'super mailboxes': think of an apartment mailbox but set up on select subdivision street corners. House owners have to go to their 'super mailbox' to pick up their letters; you don't get mail delivered to your door any more. The corollary of this is that you can't mail a letter from your home mailbox either (no home mailboxes any more).

      In Canada, mail is only delivered five days a week, and only once per day. As opposed to six days a week in the U.S. We also don't have very many 'real' post offices. They contract the local post office duties to Shoppers Drugmart (Canada's equivalent to Walgreens or CVS). They have a little counter in the back of the stores. I suppose it works OK, but you aren't guaranteed that if you drop off a parcel or letter before the postal counter closes that it will be picked up by the post office for processing that night.

      Postal employees are rabid union members. They make British coal miners of the 1970s look like pussies. They will go on strike at the drop of a hat. And they do as often as they can get away with, and they get away with a lot up here. Blocking mail from getting into facilities during a strike is routine, and the police sit back and watch it happen. They need a special court order to protect the ability to deliver the mail, so the first few days of a strike you aren't guaranteed that mail will move easily. Not that it does when there isn't a strike. And I don't know what these morons have to strike about. All postal office employees get paid a ridiculous wage ($40,000.00 to $60,000.00+) for a job that most high school drop out can do. Carriers get to go home early if they finish their routes before 8 hours are up. Most only have to work half days for full pay.

      And as for delivery times, compare 3 days for a first class letter anywhere in the U.S.A. to 5 days in Canada... and in some places, 5 days 'if you're lucky'. And from my experience, 3 days in the U.S. is pretty much guaranteed... yes sometimes it is longer but not often. All in all, don't complain about the poor old USPS. Given what they have to do, they do it pretty well.

      Here is a tip for USPS customers who don't like junk mail. It usually works. It worked for me when I was living in Saint Louis County in the great state of MO. (as opposed to the great states of Curly and Larry). There is a regulation that says that they have to not deliver items to you if you consider them offensive or obscene. The great part is that you get to say what is offensive or obscene. I forget the form number (it might be 2150), but you go to your local post office they should be able to tell you... you might have to ask the manager. Anyway, you can tell them to block certain senders from sending you obscene materials. So you can tell them to block mail from any of the major daily papers in your area (and sometimes the smaller ones) from sending you anything. In the U.S. almost all the big junk mail flyers come from the newspapers. It is called 'total market coverage'.... the papers have big databases on all the households in their area... usually more complete than the USPS ... they know who the deliver the Sunday paper to (with all those dead trees worth of advertising) and more important to this conversation, all those who don't get the Sunday paper. Then they mail the flyers to all of those households who don't get the paper that day. And anyone else you can think of

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    30. Re:Dying industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dhl does domestic comercial shipping aswell if your a big customer

    31. Re:Dying industry by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      I realize not everyone has such little dependence on the USPS. I'm just saying that they should.

      Sorry to break your bubble, but there are plenty of things that arrive through the mail other than stuff that can be sent digitally. Just take a look at eBay.

    32. Re:Dying industry by kklein · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about?

      • The USPS is not a monopoly. You can use UPS/FedEx, etc. for sending anything you want, just like with USPS. It's just phenomenally expensive.
      • The USPS has never, I repeat, never, ever lost anything I've sent. Now, I know that's an N size of 1, but I've never had a problem. Actually, now that I think of it, I don't know anyone else who has, either. It doesn't surprise me that things get pilfered from time to time--that happens with every delivery service, unfortunately. Do we have any solid numbers on it? I would be surprised if USPS fared any differently than the other guys.
      • The USPS is the only way to ship internationally. You go through the private couriers, and your recipient is going to get taxed out the wazoo. My friends recently had a kid over here in Japan. The mother's friends had a baby shower in her honor in the US, and sent her the presents, mostly baby clothes. They also sent a cute little crepe paper party favor from the party with M&Ms, etc. in it--you know, the little things people sometimes make and put at each person's place at a party. Less than a handful of unwrapped candy and nuts, etc. My friend gets the package from FedEx with an import duty bill of $200, despite the fact that the contents of the package was not much more than that--almost 100% taxation. Why? Because candy carries a heavy tax, and FedEx calculates the value of the entire box based on the most expensive item in it. If it had only been clothes, it was like $10. When I called to find all this out (they don't speak Japanese), I asked, "why do you guys always charge so much import tax?" and they said, "We have to. We're private. If you don't want to pay the import duties, send it via USPS. They have a contract with the Japanese government to not charge each other." See? That's something the private sector can't do.

        Also, FWIW, I had Netflix when I was in the states. I had one broken disc ever. And that is the only problem I ever had.

        Lay off the USPS. They do a hell of a job for a great price.

    33. Re:Dying industry by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      Hell. 42 cents (or whatever it is now) is still a good deal for sending a letter across Manhattan, let alone the country.

      Having lived in Alaska, I can also attest to the fact that their economy could very well collapse if the USPS withdrew from the area. 42 cents for a letter is damn cheap, considering how exorbitantly expensive it is to ship anything larger.

      Also remember that packages typically have to cross international borders twice to get there. Shipping via cargo ship is in murkier waters, but nevertheless requires you to switch modes of transportation twice as well.

      There is no railroad link between Alaska and the US/Canadian railroad network. The roads into Alaska don't follow the most direct/efficient route, and also tend to be avoided as a result. Virtually all freight arrives by air, sea, or rail barge. The capital, Juneau, isn't even connected to the road network.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    34. Re:Dying industry by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Royal Mail lost their monopoly in Britain a few years ago. We now have the option of them, plus Deutsche Post, TNT Mail, Fed-Ex and a few others. Mail has got a lot more expensive and a lot less reliable since that happened.

    35. Re:Dying industry by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      DHL was taken over by Deutche Post. I can still send things via them from my local Staples or WH Smith.

    36. Re:Dying industry by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Which part of Europe are you in? I certainly don't have the same experience as you in England.

    37. Re:Dying industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We Await Silent Tristero's Empire

    38. Re:Dying industry by NameIsDavid · · Score: 1

      You're a bit out of the loop. State sponsored? They've been financially self-sufficient for some time now. No tax subsidies are involved. Nor are they a monopoly, other than getting to use "United States" in their title. They face competition from at least 3 other delivery services and end up cheaper than all of them.

    39. Re:Dying industry by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 2, Interesting

      USPS moves more individual items in a day than UPS and FedEx move in a year.

      FedEx and UPS would have to spend a LOT of money changing their systems to be able to handle the volume that USPS does.

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
    40. Re:Dying industry by V+for+Vendetta · · Score: 3, Informative

      Europe got rid of postal monopolies, and the vast majority if not all are either privatised or soon to be. Mail here is cheap and reliable

      Cheap? Maybe. Reliable? Nope! (Germany here) That one guy from the Deutsche Post does/did know where my post box is located. And he took the time to open the door to the yard, walk that 10 meters from the street to my font door and drop the mail into my box.

      Since all those private services stepped in, letters are returned to the sender, because "recipient has moved to unknown location" (read: "I'm to fucking lazy to walk down to that door.") and things like that. I don't mind the snail mail spam that never reaches me that way. But invoices disappearing, even voter's notifications is a different matter.

    41. Re:Dying industry by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      links to the laws please, I'm calling bullshit

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    42. Re:Dying industry by hasdikarlsam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course messing with them/stealing from them would be a felony.
      You'd own the mailbox, and the contents; stealing is already a crime.

    43. Re:Dying industry by mspohr · · Score: 1

      I don't know where you are but in Switzerland a first class letter is 1.00 SFR (about USD 0.90)... twice the US rate... very small country... the rates are expensive and the service is good.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    44. Re:Dying industry by I'm+not+really+here · · Score: 1

      I would push for all of those companies to send me a digital copy of my bill, and eliminate the charges. Why spend money on paper, envelopes, ink, stamps, etc., when it's already available in a digital system somewhere, and it would be trivial to email it instead of mail it? It's bad business sense to keep paying for something that is no longer required.

      --
      Before commenting on the Bible, please read it first
    45. Re:Dying industry by jnork · · Score: 1

      Do you want your phone bill to go up $4 every month because it costs them that much to send it to you?

      They'd have a rough time justifying that, as I receive (and pay) that particular bill electronically. :)

      Not going to try to refute your actual argument, mind you, as I tend to agree with you.

      --
      Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
    46. Re:Dying industry by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      I realize not everyone has such little dependence on the USPS. I'm just saying that they should.

      Why?

      USPS provides a service with no cost to the taxpayer, and at a much cheaper price than commercial alternatives. The USPS is an important asset to the US Government and its citizens.

      Every household in the US has mail delivery and pickup. If this was a commercial enterprise we would be asking congress to subsidize the "last mile" postal link to rural customers. After which, rural customers would still suffer from unreliable service.

      No one is forcing you to mail a letter. I personally had no problems with the USPS handling my letters, postcards, and bill payments.

      I find it more apprehensible for private enterprises making profits from government subsidized infrastructure. Why are our broadband costs so high, especially with all the money the FCC collects from the "Universal Access Fee"?

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    47. Re:Dying industry by wbren · · Score: 1

      Not sure I see your point. Most of what I order from eBay, Newegg, etc. arrive via UPS and FedEx.

      --
      -William Brendel
    48. Re:Dying industry by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      Umm, I pay $7 a month to be an electric company customer, and another $6 a month for the privilege of natural gas service.

      USPS works very well for my needs. But then most of my mail is #10 envelopes or packages via priority mail.

    49. Re:Dying industry by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      There are real post offices, and the franchise postal outlets are by no means reserved to Shopper's Drug Marts.

      Funny that you complain about the union driving up costs, but also complain about the postal service saving money by not building unnecessary standalone post offices.

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    50. Re:Dying industry by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      The other thing people tend to leave out is that the U.S.P.S. is required, by law, to deliver any first-class-sized letter sent from one address in U.S. to another for the price of a first-class stamp, which is around 43c right now. There is no other organization in the world, be it a private company or a government-run one that has that kind of mandate and does a good job of it (overall) for the same price like the U.S.P.S. does. Is there room for improvement? Of course, but in general, there are very few things our Federal Government does well, but I'd have to consider the Post Office one of them.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    51. Re:Dying industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Things are the same in the US. I had a box a block away from my house. 3 day delivery? Nope. My wife and I lived apart for a while and mail was never delivered in 3 days. The grass isn't greener over here.

    52. Re:Dying industry by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      No, they got bought out by the German postal service.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    53. Re:Dying industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... we all have to put up with either shitty or expensive services, just so that people in remote areas of the country can get their mail cheaply?

      Fuck equality.

    54. Re:Dying industry by physicsphairy · · Score: 1

      Of course messing with them/stealing from them would be a felony.

      Not under existing law.

      You'd own the mailbox, and the contents; stealing is already a crime.

      Unless your mail includes diamond rolexes, the crime is only petty theft at worst. How much are letters and envelopes worth in cost of raw material? Taking the mail is practically zero-risk: it's not until the guy is long gone that the real crimes such as identity theft and credit card fraud occur.

      There is a reason it is a big nasty federal crime to tamper with official U.S. mail. It should be the same for other couriers if we are going to give them a fair chance to compete in that market.

    55. Re:Dying industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last mile problems have nothing to do with the status of the ISPs as 'private' organizations. In reality, there's a bunch of regulation, at the national, state, and local level, impeding anyone from just hanging up a bunch of fiber, a couple T1s to a Tier1/2 provider, and selling access.

    56. Re:Dying industry by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      Funny... I lived there, in Missouri, for close to seven years. Just moved back to Canada last year. Delivery times were pretty darned good in my experience. But I didn't know about the boxes there... mind you I lived in older neighbourhoods... like over a hundred years old. :) But then again, there are more neighbourhoods like that in the U.S. than in Canada. We have a few older ones in cities and towns in Ontario, Quebec, and some of the Maritime provinces but that is it. But not so many in other places.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  4. eureka by Thornburg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Now I finally understand what Netflix meant when they said it would "cost us too much to switch to machinable envelopes." (That's from memory, so it may be paraphrased.)

  5. So that explains it by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just started using GameFly a few months ago instead of getting raped by Blockbuster when I didn't return the games on time. I rented every few months but would keep games 3 or 4 games for far too long. So I switched to GameFly after the girlfriend pointed out it would be far cheaper overall.

    One of the things I found rather annoying is the constant emails like 'have you got XXX yet?' or 'When did you send back XXX?'. I figured they were just trying to establish the average time it takes to get the game to me and back from various distribution centers or something.

    After reading this I'm inclined to believe they are just trying to figure out which shipper is shafting them on a regular basis.

    What I've worried about is what happens when I put it in the mailbox to go back and some neighborhood kid comes and steals it? I live in a good neighborhood and have no reason to assume any of the kids around would do it, but having been a kid once not to long ago it would seem to me to be a great target for some free games once you realize someone is doing it.

    Anyone had any experience with GameFly not getting back a game or the game never arriving in your mailbox? How is their customer support in those situations I wonder?

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    1. Re:So that explains it by firex726 · · Score: 1

      I used to have GameFly a few months back and canceled since it took too long.
      It'd take on average 7 days from the time I mailed a game back to when I got the next one.

      Taking into account how long I'd keep it, it just wasn't worth it for me. I think I was paying around $25/Mth, and at that subscription fee I could be a new release every two months.

    2. Re:So that explains it by Ceiynt · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've had games lost on return, and one never made it to me, one DOA. They've been pretty easy to deal with, don't really ask quetions other then how did you try to return the game, in an open mailbox, locked community box, dropped off at post office, questions like that.
      I've never gotten the email survey's asking about shipping time. Wonder if you live in either a huge use area or are the only subscriber in a three city radius.

    3. Re:So that explains it by Just+Justin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I remember when I was a gamefly member, about 2 or 3 years ago, they started doing this thing where as soon as the post office received your game, gamefly would send out a new one.

      The idea was that this would make the turnaround time shorter. Even then, it was put game in mailbox Monday after 2pm, receive a new game by Friday.

      I think the best thing to do is buy a game, then either trade it on goozex, or sell it on Amazon and then use that money to buy another game.

    4. Re:So that explains it by Sparr0 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Stealing things out of a mailbox is a federal crime. Robbing a convenience store (with a weapon other than a gun, in jurisdictions where that matters) carries lower penalties. No one ever said petty criminals were smart, but one of the benefits of the USPS being a federal agency is that they have laws that extremely overprotect them and their service.

    5. Re:So that explains it by assassinator42 · · Score: 1

      I get the same emails from Netflix about turnaround time as well as instant streaming quality. Quite possibly because I've been paying for it but not using it that much lately.
      It seems more like a positive thing to me. I'm sure they'd stop emailing you if you ask them. Of course I get a two-day turnaround with Netflix while it was more like a week with Gamefly, as the games were apparently being sent between Michigan and California.

    6. Re:So that explains it by ceriphim · · Score: 1

      How would the kid know which mailboxes to look in? How many people use GameFly, anyway? And what are you doing, posting big billboards in front of your hourse declaring use of their service? Seems like long odds for some kid to just be peering in mailboxes and happen across your rented game...

      Of course, nothing people do should *truly* surprise one anymore. Just seems like a pretty improbable right place/right time combo...

    7. Re:So that explains it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I've worried about is what happens when I put it in the mailbox to go back and some neighborhood kid comes and steals it? I live in a good neighborhood and have no reason to assume any of the kids around would do it, but having been a kid once not to long ago it would seem to me to be a great target for some free games once you realize someone is doing it.

      When I had Netflix I only used official mailboxes like the one at the Post Office. In fact, I do that with everything I mail. There are just too many incidents of people stealing your DVD's, checks, whatever from personal unsecured mailboxes. I never mail anything from my house mailbox.

      Many neighborhoods around here have hand delivered mail and you can't mail anything from your house anyway. I got used to that when I lived in the next city over.

    8. Re:So that explains it by jnork · · Score: 1

      What I've worried about is what happens when I put it in the mailbox to go back and some neighborhood kid comes and steals it? I live in a good neighborhood and have no reason to assume any of the kids around would do it, but having been a kid once not to long ago it would seem to me to be a great target for some free games once you realize someone is doing it.

      So don't drop it into your mailbox. Take it to an official USPS collection box or drop it off in the slot right at the Post Orifice.

      --
      Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
  6. I've had lost games.. by Ceiynt · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've been using Gamefly for almost 5 years now. In those five years, I've had three games lost when returned. I've had one game take 2 months to be returned to the Gamefly facility, one game shipped to me that was broken on delivery, and one never made it to me. I'm at my second resident since I've started this, so I would have to assume it's not just my address nor an individual carrier nor local postal center, but more widespread. I have noticed over the years the little cardboard thing has gotten a little more sturdy. Given the increasing news about postal carriers not delivering the mail, or stealing it, and the increased use of contractors to transport a lot of mail from major cities to smaller, I can see this becoming more of a problem. And with Gamefly plastered on the shipping sleeves, it is easy to take a guess at what's inside, quick and easy money.

    1. Re:I've had lost games.. by actionbastard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Another solution...plain brown envelope with a USB flash drive inside that is encrypted with a key that is e-mailed to you. Nothing to break. Useless without the key.

      --
      Sig this!
    2. Re:I've had lost games.. by Cthefuture · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That has way too much overhead. Writing to flash memory is slow as hell, then you have to encrypt the contents as well which is a CPU-heavy task. Now multiply that by millions of customers. Think of all the equipment maintenance, power consumption, support staff. That eats straight into your profits and ends up costing more than whatever loss there is from doing it the normal way.

      Yeah, not gonna happen.

      --
      The ratio of people to cake is too big
    3. Re:I've had lost games.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do I play that on my xbox?

  7. USPS sucks. by aussersterne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I live in NYC (Astoria, Queens) and we often have our mail lost or damaged (they'll simply snap a CD in two or fold a book in half to fit it into our mailbox). At times, especially with packages, our postman doesn't even try. We'll have a tracking number to check the status and the system will show three "Delivery attempt" notices and we won't get a slip OR a package, and it will simply disappear into the ether.

    And both I and my wife teach at the university level, with alternating schedules, so one of us is almost always home.

    We've complained to our local post office (the Long Island City office at 11105) about losses and damage and the manager told us it was a "problem they were aware of" and that there were "investigations" and people would be laid off. A year later, no change. Last thing was a reasonably expensive wristwatch (not a Rolex or anything, just a garden variety $150 or so mechanical watch with a Citizen/Miyota movement that I hope will last a long time) and the company would only deliver USPS, so I took a chance.

    Sure enough, it was "lost" without any delivery attempts the first time around and the shipper, happily, agreed to ship an alternate via UPS and to pursue USPS themselves for reimbursement. UPS, of course, had it here two days later, no problems.

    Lesson: this is the age of email and global shipping services that actually work. There is no need for USPS. I wish we could do away with piracy controls already so that we could avoid this hassle and have all things like communications and games delivered electronically as should be the case naturally. For solid goods, everybody should just use UPS and/or FedEx. Yes, they have their own problems, but they're not as notoriously shitty as USPS, which has been the butt of jokes in major cities in the U.S. stretching back to the mid-'20th century, and which only got tracking capability for regular mail a decade or more after everyone else on the planet did.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re:USPS sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      For solid goods, everybody should just use UPS and/or FedEx. Yes, they have their own problems, but they're not as notoriously shitty as USPS, which has been the butt of jokes in major cities in the U.S. stretching back to the mid-'20th century, and which only got tracking capability for regular mail a decade or more after everyone else on the planet did.

      You forgot to clarify "tracking", such as "so called tracking", etc... because calling what the USPS does "tracking" is highly inaccurate. I will often recieve a package before the USPS acknowledges that is has actually travelled anywhere. And that isn't because they deliver fast.

      On the topic of the USPS going down in quality, I guess I lived in a really good area for a while, because I've moved twice relatively recently, and the service in both the new places has been terrible, especially when compared to the previous one.

      Kudos to the Coopersburg, PA post office for the great job they do.

      Shame on the Center Valley, PA and Dublin, PA post offices for the crappy job they do.

      Posting anonymously on the off chance that my mail carrier reads slashdot.

    2. Re:USPS sucks. by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 2, Informative

      UPS and FedEx are both hella expensive for anybody outside the continental US.

      HELLA.
      EXPENSIVE.

      Cheapest option on solid goods is generally 5-10 times more expensive than USPS. Especially UPS. They can't figure out how to drive through Canada, or put goods on a barge, they'll only send it via air freight, which is generally 2nd day service and obscenely expensive because of it.

      DHL is better than both on price, but they are still more expensive than USPS, and good luck finding an online retailer who uses DHL.

      Honestly, I've never had an issue with my local USPS. I live in a condo with the little metal mailboxes and I don't get broken DVD's, or mis-delivered items (well, that I've ever known about). It sounds like a local problem with your local government employees, and if it really bothers you, you should get some other locals together and put some pressure on your local representatives to DO something about it.

      Anyways, back to Gamefly, I'll bet their biggest problem is a lack of distribution centers. Turnaround on Netflix for me is usually 3 days, which is a day to get to netflix, a day to process, and a day to get back. No way they are hitting that without a local distro, probably more than one even. Also, if Netflix's packaging forces hand-sorting, I could see that as being a bonus as well. They have very low protection, just a fiber sleeve, and they don't -seem- to be having the same issues, at least not on the ratio that GF has.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    3. Re:USPS sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Valdosta, GA post office just fails to forward our mail. They've got a great excuse every time, but it fails miserably.

    4. Re:USPS sucks. by compro01 · · Score: 1

      You forgot to clarify "tracking", such as "so called tracking", etc... because calling what the USPS does "tracking" is highly inaccurate.

      I've gotten the same "tracking" from UPS and Fedex, unless their ground shipping is actually done via hypersonic jet, as I've seen the tracking go from Concord, ON, to Regina, SK (about 2700KM/1700 miles) within 20 minutes.

      And Fedex is fucking lazy. They punt and send it via Canada Post before it gets within 100 miles of me (and then I have to go pick it up at the post office 2 or 3 days later). UPS at least gets it to the nearest city on their own.

      The only tracking I've seen that is worth a damn is Canada Post's Xpresspost and Purolator (and Purolator can actually figure out where I live and drop off/pick up stuff from my door, something UPS and Fedex have never managed).

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    5. Re:USPS sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And both I and my wife teach at the university level

      Presumably not in the English department. (Sorry, I tried to stop myself, really :)

    6. Re:USPS sucks. by dcollins · · Score: 1

      I also live in NYC (Bay Ridge, Brooklyn) and I know that I'd certainly rather have stuff shipped to me by USPS than any other option. I don't have any of the problems that you mention. The other carriers are always a much bigger hassle.

      Here yesterday I just received a UPS notice on the door; allegedly "Final Attempt" (never received a 1st or 2nd attempt), no info on what the package is, a tracking number which comes up online and by phone as "not in the system, no information", so I don't have any way to find out what I need to do about it now.

      The UPS/FedEx stuff is always an eye-rolling hassle when I see one coming. Give me USPS any day over here. I do feel sorry to hear about you local service, that's far beyond anything that I've ever heard of in the several different states that I've lived in.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    7. Re:USPS sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well if you lose mail call the inspection service, They are like the commandos for the postal service.

    8. Re:USPS sucks. by WGFCrafty · · Score: 1
      Good luck finding ANYONE who uses DHL.

      30 January 2009 DHL ends domestic pick up and delivery service in the United States, effectively leaving UPS and FedEx as the two major express parcel delivery companies in the United States.

      If you live in the U.S. Since you use usps, I assume you do anyways....

    9. Re:USPS sucks. by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 1

      I've never seen the same fedex or ups delivery person twice. On the other hand, over the span of 5 residences, I've had 5 mail carriers.

      So if you have a jerk for a mail carrier, that's going to grossly exaggerate the problem. My experiences with the USPS have been overwhelmingly positive, and I ask a lot from them- any time I've asked for my mail to be redirected, or held, or my address changed, or I had a family of ants move into my mailbox literally overnight- they have come through every time.

      One time, my deployment overseas was extended a few months past the end date on my 'hold mail' form. I didn't have the receipt or any way to contact my branch office so I assumed that when I got home I'd be missing several months of mail and packages. Nope, they cheerfully handed me a carefully wrapped bundle and commented that they were wondering when I was getting back.

      When I read your accounts (cd's snapped, books bent), I laughed and thought, "that's New York for you." I can't in a hundred years imagine that happening around here. On the other hand, fedex left my iBook on my front porch in the rain in plain view of the street in the bad part of town and the package was unwrapped (commercial box, that is, clearly an apple laptop from 30 feet away). I was pretty angry, but everything worked out.

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
    10. Re:USPS sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same zipcode here. Had a couple letters opened during the holidays and checks stolen. Gotta say after being here for a number of years it's sad the most criminal activity I've encountered was with the postal service

    11. Re:USPS sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You live in a shitty area inhabited by assholes. Surprisingly, your post office is run by said assholes who probably grew up in said shitty area. Solution: move out of the ghetto.

  8. GameFly compared to Blockbuster by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Informative

    TFA says Blockbuster is now considered competition to GameFly. I've only been using GameFly a short while, but for fucks sake please don't compare them to BlockBuster. Maybe I'll change my mind, but BlockBuster changes their rules and rental policies almost weekly. They've got a hundred ways to get extra cash out of you. They 'did away with late fees' only to charge you some other weird fee of a dollar or so if you didn't return it in the 'time period' ... just like a late fee, smaller sure but its a late fee all the same. Then they go ahead and charge you full price for the game within a short period of time. When you return it, it takes them more than a month to issue the refund to your card. I'm not talking about the extra time the CC processor takes. BlockBuster itself waits for the better part of a month at least in most cases.

    Then, the bastards just silently do away with the 'no late fees' policy and go back to charging them without warning, no signs, the clerks don't mention it, you either find out on your next rental afterwords or when the just charge your card anyway if you don't rent again soon enough.

    BlockBuster is about as evil as Microsoft.

    GameFly may not be better, but they have yet to charge me anything over what I signed up for. I will admit, I'm only in my 4th month so feel free to point out how they may rape me later if you have different experiences.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    1. Re:GameFly compared to Blockbuster by hldn · · Score: 1, Interesting

      here's a novel idea: return your rentals on time.

      i have never in my life had to pay a late fee on a movie or game rental.

      --
      http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    2. Re:GameFly compared to Blockbuster by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thats because you don't actually have a life.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    3. Re:GameFly compared to Blockbuster by ceriphim · · Score: 1

      Worked at Blockbuster for almost two years during highschool. Worst job I ever had. You get yelled at by customers who returned rentals late (regardless of the fact we kept up with our checkins and made sure they were done promptly), so to stop them yelling, you gave them a credit but told 'em not to do it again. Then you'd get yelled at by your boss for going over the store's "credit allowance" for the day.

      Fuck. That. I'd sooner go back to being a Pizza Hut cook before I *ever* worked for that abortion of a video rental company again.

    4. Re:GameFly compared to Blockbuster by Gnavpot · · Score: 1

      I will admit, I'm only in my 4th month so feel free to point out how they may rape me later if you have different experiences.

      Sorry. I am a man. I have no experience in getting raped during pregnancy.

    5. Re:GameFly compared to Blockbuster by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      I've been using GameFly for a couple years now, and I've had 1 lost game and a couple packages I thought were lost. (1 going to them, 1 the box for a game I bought.) In all cases they quickly took care of the problem and always assumed I was a good customer, not someone trying to steal from them. As for the case... it actually came about a week later, with the replacement a couple days behind that. USPS had apparently lost it for a while.

      While I don't doubt some people have had problems with GameFly, my experience with them has been stellar.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    6. Re:GameFly compared to Blockbuster by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Here's your cookie.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  9. Replacing broken disks should be discounted by davidwr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Even if you assume the number is one percent, and a game costs $50 to replace

    You'd think an outfit as large as GameFly would have a swap-for-flat-fee arrangement with vendors for broken media. After all, they are essentially buying a license that has rental rights.

    If they are doing it right, it's more like $10-$20, assuming they pay for media only and get a full box. If they get just a disk, it's well under $5, probably very much well under.

    If they are fortunate enough to be allowed to make their own replacement disks, it should be the cost of a blank DVD plus their labor costs if they can certify the original is destroyed.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Replacing broken disks should be discounted by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      It makes you wonder if, perhaps, the vendors don't really like GameFly all that much. As I understand it, despite attempts at clickwrap licencing the right away, First Sale allows you to sell/give away/rent/set on fire a game you purchased, whether the publisher likes it or not. To establish a special "medium only" price(as is quite common with DVD rental places) obviously requires the publisher's agreement.

      Since, as you say, that would be the obviously superior way of dealing with the breakage problem; but they aren't doing so, I wonder if they have the option or not.

    2. Re:Replacing broken disks should be discounted by Tauvix · · Score: 4, Informative

      One thing that you are not taking into consideration is this:

      Gamefly will sell you the game if you like it, then ship you the original box and manual.

      When they have a new release, they buy dramatically more then they are going to need in the long run in order to meet short term demand. Then, you have the option while you have the game to "Keep it" for a discounted rate (usually less then buying it used at Gamestop/EBGames). If you managed to get ahold of the game in the first week or so of the release, you can also be reasonably sure that you are either the first, or at worst the second, person to use the media.

      And again, since they are sending you the case and manual, they have to be obtaining the retail versions of the games (I have purchased a number of games from them over the last 3-4 years that I've been a subscriber, it has always been the same packaging/UPC that I found on Amazon, Best Buy, etc). So, while it's probably not costing them $50/game to buy, it's not going to be costing them $10-20 either.

      I used to work for Best Buy for a while, it's highly unlikely that Gamefly is getting a better deal on the games then BBY is, and on a $49.99 game the cost to BBY was usually around $38-40. I would imagine that GF is picking up a new release for $43-45/copy on a $49.99 release.

  10. USPS / USPO isn't bad... by Manip · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Royal Mail (UK Postal Service) was made private and since then we've seen prices skyrocket, service diminish, and little or nothing of any actual benefit.

    In fact the government is having to put more and more money into this private company each year to keep it afloat.

    The USPO is SO cheap when you compare the two. And you all get first class mail with no additional charge!

    You hate it so much and want private? Trade?

    1. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by Boss+Sauce · · Score: 2, Insightful

      NOES!!! We like our USPS very much, thank you... er, some of us do. The ones who send mail. In my experience, things do /not/ get "lost in the mail"-- that's just a slacker's excuse for not having sent something. In this case, stuff's getting /stolen/ in the mail-- different issue, and I'm sure the USPS has federal agents on the case. Given the size of the US, and that a first class stamp will send your letter across town or from Miami to Honolulu, I consider the USPS (1) a bargain and (2) a poster-child for the idea that government /can/ do things very, very well. Them, and the, um, Flowers By Irene.

    2. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The USPS *IS* private, in the same way that Royal is. They get bailed out by the government, have some oversight, etc., but are at least nominally private.

      This has not gone well traditionally. Some other, similar companies? Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae. You may remember them from such wonderful hits as 'global economic downturn' and 'Death of Lehman Brothers.'

      The problem with 1/2 privatizing is that you end up with a business that cannot fail, no matter how much it screws up. Which, from the sound of it, is Royal Mail. Freddie and Fannie were the same way - 'too big to fail' and well connected to the government. And as a result they could take on all sorts of predatory, speculative, totally insane risky loans, eh, the taxpayers would always bail them out, right?

      Right?

      Bad idea for them and bad idea with the package delivery services.

    3. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll trade with you! The South African postal service is so corrupt and so much gets stolen that Amazon.com stopped delivering here (unless you pay for courier).

    4. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by NovaHorizon · · Score: 1

      A lot of Government owned services here in the U.S. actually became cheaper when turned private because it was done on a bidding system. If the company was believed to be a lesser desired choice, they were fired, and therefore lost their chance at profit. (Source: John Stossel goes to Washington)

    5. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's cheap here BECAUSE the govt. plows tons of money into it. Whether it's "private" or "public", it's not a profitable business.

    6. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      Dude, stuff DOES get lost in the mail. Perhaps you have always had good mail carriers, but I've lived in a lot of different places, and in some of them sometimes mail that was sent to me (I know it was) just didn't get there.

      At most places it's been good, but there were certain places or with certain carriers, where things just wasn't that horribly reliable.

      Overall it's a good system, but don't claim things never get lost. That' BS.

    7. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by rnelsonee · · Score: 1

      The USPS is great at sending small pieces of mail. But if it's time-sensitive we have no good options.

      Two weeks ago a co-worker asked me to overnight a PCI card from the east coast to California. There's a post office right by my work so I gave it a shot. I asked about overnight, and the clerk said it could be there by 12. Knowing she couldn't leave the hotel and start working without the card, I asked if it could get there sooner, and he sort of laughed, like it was a stupid request. By the time I finished writing the address, I had a new clerk, and she told me since it was 5:00pm, it would now take 2 days. 5pm to 12pm (west coast) is *22 hours*, and they couldn't promise that?

      I drove to FedEx, and they promised 10:30 delivery, and it was there before 10:00. The problem is that it cost $61.

      So you pay 40 cents for a letter, or $15 for anything over 31oz (or whatever it is) if you want it there in less than 4 days.

    8. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by Boss+Sauce · · Score: 2, Funny

      Whatever-- I know you never sent that check.

    9. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by artg · · Score: 1

      Hear, Hear ! Part of the problem is that the government used to use post office infrastructure (all the shop counters) as a local representative : the place you collected forms, got paid benefits etc. This part was privatised first and the gov. put those services out to tender. The result is that the offices, deprived of much of their work and no longer directly funded, aren't economic and many are being closed. That removes the remaining services from small communities and the whole system collapses. It worked much better as a gov. subsidised service and probably cost a lot less too.

    10. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's an idea. Let's trade. You get USPS and we get the National Health Service. Deal?

    11. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      Well, do you really expect to have a $0.44 price for shipping a box 3000 miles in a day? It's not like they have teleportation. Emergency situations cause emergency prices- an emergency room cost vs. a doctor's visit (a bit of hyperbole, yes).

      I think what you meant to say was "But if it's time sensitive we have no -cheap- options".

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    12. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by DaveGod · · Score: 1

      I agree the Royal Mail should be kept public but there's a few points that affect your argument.

      Postage charges have gone up, but this is not like-for-like as previously you also paid for it through taxes, cross-subsidisation and so on (plus any tax on the privatised company's profits is something of an very indirect refund). All else remaining equal, the net cost of the royal mail service to you may not have changed in the way that would seem apparent from simply looking at the price of stamps.

      One of the reasons for the price increase is to fund investment which was already necessary. The RM would have needed to cover this cost whether private or not, and we would have paid for it either through stamps or taxes. One of the reasons the government is giving RM money is because the amount of investment required was underestimated.

      Another major problem for RM is the pensions liability built up when it was public. Private companies build up a pension fund with most of the contributions paid in while the employee is working. The government does no such thing, it pays pensions out of the taxes of the following generation of workers. Again, the liability was underestimated.

      I refer above to the Royal Mail broadly as what the Royal Mail historically represented, the true current position is more complex. Currently Royal Mail Group Ltd is still government owned, while some of it's functions have been privatised and operate as Royal Mail Holdings PLC (formerly Consignia PLC). The media rarely distinguish (perhaps, don't even know) which one they're talking about which makes following any news difficult, quite often when they are talking about throwing the RM money they are talking about the one that is still government owned.

      Personally I think the RM should remain wholly public because the service offers a substantial benefit to society that is not really reflected in the market mechanism. Consider, for example, that most of the benefits of a good postal service are enjoyed by the receiver of mail, not the person who pays for it. Secondly I strongly expect the mail is the type of service where monopoly scale efficiency outweighs the benefits from competition.

    13. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Put more simply: you get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    14. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      Well said. I then to wax (in)eloquent!

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    15. Re:USPS / USPO isn't bad... by againjj · · Score: 1

      The USPO is SO cheap when you compare the two. And you all get first class mail with no additional charge!

      What?

      First class mail most definitely is more expensive. There just is no other option for small items, unless bulk mailing.

  11. USPS has shoddy merchandise, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When it snows I am always finding mailboxes on the roads I clear.

  12. wrong by SuperBanana · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since 1973 they've been a state sponsored monopoly rather than an actual branch of the government.

    "The United States Post Office (U.S.P.O.) was created in Philadelphia under Benjamin Franklin on July 26, 1775 by decree of the Second Continental Congress. Based on the Postal Clause in Article One of the United States Constitution, empowering Congress "To establish post offices and post roads," it became the Post Office Department (U.S.P.O.D.) in 1792. It was part of the Presidential cabinet and the Postmaster General was the last person in the United States presidential line of succession. In 1971, the department was reorganized as a quasi-independent agency of the federal government and acquired its present name. The Postmaster General is no longer in the presidential line of succession.[14]"

    Wikipedia, fun for the whole family. PS: they're not 'sponsored'; they don't get any money from the feds. They're given the postal equivalent of common carrier status, but only to a mailbox marked "US Mail". If you want to make your own postal service, you can go right ahead- you just can't deliver to a US Mail mailbox. Given that almost nobody's mailbox is actually marked "US Mail", practically, you CAN run a competitive service.

    I don't see it being too much longer that they're allowed sole right to transfer first class mail with both UPS and FedEx waiting in the wings to offer better more reliable service.

    USPS has never, in my entire life, lost or damaged a package or letter of mine. UPS and Fedex have done one or both, repeatedly.

    I once had a USPS delivery guy (working the holiday season) bang on the doorbells of the entire complex until someone let him in. I was in the shower and when I stuck my head out the window, he demanded to be let in. His response to "I'm in the shower" was a string of profanity demanding I let him in.

    I called the USPS customer service number and spoke to a rep who was meticulous in taking down the particulars, and apologized profusely. I figured I'd never hear back from them about it, except then I received a phone call a week later saying the guy had been disciplined and re-trained on USPS practices for delivery to apartment buildings. A week or so after that, a customer survey card appeared in the mail, asking if my complaint had been handled to my satisfaction.

    Go read the Journal of Improbable Research's article about shipping weird shit through the mail. It's astounding what they got through the mail, and they said that it is a miracle that they can do stuff like ship a balloon when in most countries, you can't even get reliable letter service.

    I don't know what the fuck your personal beef is with the USPS, but the fact that they're a monopoly and run both efficiently and extremely competently is pretty amazing to me.

    1. Re:wrong by Thornburg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      USPS has never, in my entire life, lost or damaged a package or letter of mine. UPS and Fedex have done one or both, repeatedly.

      I don't know what the fuck your personal beef is with the USPS, but the fact that they're a monopoly and run both efficiently and extremely competently is pretty amazing to me.

      Are you or a relative a postal employee, by chance?

      I've had numerous things lost or damaged in the US Mail in the last year. It has been a decade since UPS lost or damaged a single package of mine. I don't use Fedex as often as the US Mail or UPS, so I'll leave them out of it.

      Also, different post offices have different levels of competency. Just because your post office & carrier does a good job doesn't mean most of them do. Of the 7 or so post offices I've had substantial experience with (as a resident of their zip code), I would 2 have been horrible, 2 were quite good, and the others average. Note that "average" is below where I would rank UPS.

      No, I don't work for UPS, and I don't own their stock or have any other commercial interest in them.

    2. Re:wrong by Thornburg · · Score: 1

      I would say 2 were quite good...

      *sigh* Even forced preview couldn't save me; I only read the first 2/3rds of it, fixed 2 errors, and clicked submit.

    3. Re:wrong by dxkelly · · Score: 1

      The post office in my area has no problem delivering me my mail or my neighbors mail or the mail from the next building. Sometimes I think I'm Radar O'Reilly.

    4. Re:wrong by ikono · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also, different post offices have different levels of competency. Just because your post office & carrier don't do a good job, it doesn't mean most of them don't do a good job. (See what I did there?)

      --
      Karma is for whores
    5. Re:wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've had numerous things lost or damaged in the US Mail in the last year.

      Guess calling the postman a "stupid motherfucker" that one time wasn't such a hot idea now was it?

      It has been a decade since UPS lost or damaged a single package of mine.

      Try calling the UPS deliveryman a "stupid motherfucker" and let us know how UPS delivery works out for you.

    6. Re:wrong by afabbro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Look, these threads are the same every time:

      • "UPS sucks, but FedEx has been great for me"
      • "USPS loses my stuff every day, but UPS is perfect"
      • "I used to work for UPS and I would never ship with them"
      • "my brother works for FedEx and HE says use USPS"
      • "Over here in $COUNTRY our stuff works fine"
      • "Oh yeah, I visited $COUNTRY and my postcard to my mother never made it back home and I had to pay two euros to send it"

      Etcetera. Look, you open up a public forum and you're going to hear horror stories about each major carrier and stories of wonderful service about each major carrier. Because it's all just a bunch of random personal anecdotes, it doesn't mean anything.

      Do a statistically-valid survey of a significant percentage of each major carrier's customers and get back to me.

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
    7. Re:wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      I've had numerous things lost or damaged in the US Mail in the last year. It has been a decade since UPS lost or damaged a single package of mine.

      You must not order much through UPS. I was a supervisor at UPS right out of college, and I assure you, we broke a hell of a lot of things. The drivers are on a very strict schedule, there's lots of tossing, kicking and dropping going on. After two years of working there I'm almost surprised when a delivery is not damaged in some way.

      I find it unfathomable that nothing has been damaged by UPS in "a decade" unless you order one package a year or are the luckiest man on Earth.

    8. Re:wrong by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but in the past few years, I've had six packages sent to me via USPS, and only two made it through. I no longer order from places that won't ship via FedEx or UPS (I prefer FedEx). The postal service in the town my home is in, is the worst I have ever experienced. They are completely unreliable, and on numerous occasions, I've received packages for other people in my neighborhood. Half the time on different streets, I take the time to actually take the packages to my neighbors. Once, they left a box on top of the mailbox in the pouring rain.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    9. Re:wrong by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      USPS has never, in my entire life, lost or damaged a package or letter of mine.

      One anecdote proves nothing. Mail in Chicago is pretty bad, but Im not going to demand USPS fold. Obviously, dense metro areas are just going to have more problems than suburban or rural areas. USPS does a good enough job but theft is out of control. I had to quit gamefly because of theft. Perhaps USPS can start looking into monitoring its employees and making examples of theives.

    10. Re:wrong by cerberusss · · Score: 4, Funny

      Look, these threads are the same every time:

      [...]Because it's all just a bunch of random personal anecdotes, it doesn't mean anything.

      Very true. But in my experience, this happens even more at digg.com. I sometimes visit the Ars Technica forums and the problem doesn't seem to exist there.

      Of course, YMMV.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    11. Re:wrong by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1

      What... are you saying that I'm supposed to take this site seriously.
      Or are you just assuming other people take this as seriously as you.

      Signed

      confused.

      PS.
      The cake is moist and delicious

      PPS
      And so are you

    12. Re:wrong by Mitreya · · Score: 1
      Look, you open up a public forum and you're going to hear horror stories about each major carrier and stories of wonderful service about each major carrier. Because it's all just a bunch of random personal anecdotes, it doesn't mean anything.

      I disagree. I think this actually goes well beyond random anecdotes and there is a clear pattern. Over many, many years, USPS has never lost a piece of mail or a package (except for a few rebate letters, btw, but I am pretty sure these are suspect). Not for me, not for anyone in my family, not for anyone I know.
      On top of that, my father runs a business that involves mailing a lot of books and software all over the world and, again, domestically USPS never loses anything. FedEx and USPS aren't quite so cool - they might or might not lose your package. Although these are personal anecdotes, I think the combined number of data points runs into many, many thousands.

    13. Re:wrong by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 3, Funny

      The United States Post Office (U.S.P.O.) was created in Philadelphia under Benjamin Franklin on July 26, 1775...

      First post!

    14. Re:wrong by j-beda · · Score: 1

      "Given that almost nobody's mailbox is actually marked "US Mail", practically, you CAN run a competitive service. "

      I'm not so sure about the availability of ones without such markings. My father in law up in Canada was recently complaining about not being able to buy a mailbox, in Canada, that was not marked "US Mail". A quick search of google to try to find a place selling mailboxes did not turn up any that are not marked "US Mail". Heck, it may be that the US Mail will not be delivered to any box without such a designation.

      Actually, it looks like a few of the offerings at http://www.mailboxixchange.com/ do not say "US Mail", but the vast majority seem to.

    15. Re:wrong by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      I've participated in the Price Waterhouse study of mail accuracy of delivery. So I'd get reports on how accurate my region was compared to others.

      Turns out the New England region in general is something on the order of 94% accurate on first try. That's pretty amazing when you think about it.

      The study involved sending and receiving test pieces of mail (from #10 envelope to large envelopes and packages) and logging send/receive dates with PW.

    16. Re:wrong by hplus · · Score: 1

      Do a statistically-valid survey of a significant percentage of each major carrier's customers and get back to me.

      I'm mailing one out as we speak!

    17. Re:wrong by againjj · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia, fun for the whole family. PS: they're not 'sponsored'; they don't get any money from the feds. They're given the postal equivalent of common carrier status, but only to a mailbox marked "US Mail". If you want to make your own postal service, you can go right ahead- you just can't deliver to a US Mail mailbox. Given that almost nobody's mailbox is actually marked "US Mail", practically, you CAN run a competitive service.

      Nor can you deliver most letters, unless you pay the USPS. Quoting Wikipedia right back at you:

      [Non-USPS delivered] letters must either cost at least the greater of $3 or twice what First Class (or Priority) mail service would cost, or they must be delivered within strict time limits or otherwise lose value. [...]

      It is possible to set up a private mail delivery service known as "lawful private carriage" if the USPS postage is paid in addition to any private postage fee that is collected.

      So, either, you have to charge a lot more than the USPS, deliver within time constraints, or charge more than the USPS (or not be in the volume letter business).

    18. Re:wrong by againjj · · Score: 1

      Someone already replied about anecdotes, but I will add one that is actually generalizable to an extent.

      One difference with the USPS is that they deliver to mailboxes. We once lived in a rural, mountainous area. Most people would ship packages to us via UPS. They were delivered to our home and left outside. If those packages contained food, wild animals would tear them open, and if it rained, they would get soaked. The USPS would deliver to a locked package mailbox, and leave the key in the regular mailbox, so the package was always safe.

  13. alternative expaination by fermion · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If I am a USPS employee who wants to steal video games, I am not going to steal from companies that sells videos. I am going to wait for a gamefly container to come by and steal it. That way I get a $50 game instead of a $5 movie.

    Then there is issue of transit time. Does gamefly deliver with a day to most places? Netflix appears to. Less time in the mail means less time for damage.

    Then there is the way the number are reported, 590 thousand units out, 510 thousand units in. There is no indication here that the post office has anything to do with this. The fundamental reality is that the business model of renting a $20 movies for $10 a month is different from renting $50 games for $10 a month. As a customer of gamefly it is worthwhile for me to claim I never got the disc, or claim I did send it back, as I get an expensive game that maybe makes the risk worthwhile. This problem is exaggerated when one considers that a movie can be copied. This may not be a 14% loss rate, but it probably accounts for some of the shrinkage.

    In fact we don't really know anything because the article did not list certain critical facts. Like the precent of the subscribers who cancel within a month or so. At lest some of these, we assume, claim that they never received a disc. We also don't know what percentage of the netfix and blockbuster DVDs are damaged in transit, and any reporting of such numbers must be a function of the number of days in transit. Also, how many of these were damaged by the xbox?

    Even if we assume that USPS is solely responsible for losing 14% of the discs, one has to assume that there is some insurance involved. Claims are filed, and if the dics are insured at retail price, then gamefly might actually come out ahead as the some fo the cost has likely already been covered i rentals. As far as preferential treatment, I have been in these situations. When the volume is high it is often worth to invest in certain processes to that will reduce cost overall. For a half million pieces of mail a month, there may be no ROI for this, and as a taxpayer I don't want to subsidize it. I suspect that netflix might be an order of magnitude above this, and then it might be worthwhile to implement special considerations.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:alternative expaination by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      The only problem with your analysis is that Gamefly can and will charge you for the cost of games if they are lost in transit. It says so in the ToA. Granted, they don't always do so, but I'm willing to bet if by game 2 or 3 that gets "lost" that you will be forking over cash. Oh, and Gamefly does not cost $10.00 a month. I tried it out for a month, and I distinctly remember it costing me nearly $30.00 per month.

    2. Re:alternative expaination by 42forty-two42 · · Score: 1

      The essence of Gamefly's complaint is that it is illegal for the post office to implement special considerations for netflix.

    3. Re:alternative expaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a taxpayer, as many others have remarked, you *aren't* subsidizing it.

      http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/selfsufficient.html

    4. Re:alternative expaination by triffid_98 · · Score: 1

      We also don't know what percentage of the netfix and blockbuster DVDs are damaged in transit, and any reporting of such numbers must be a function of the number of days in transit.

      Another major point missing from this is that a DVD is essentially a MPEG-2 stream. If a few bits are unreadable, the disc still works. If it's a game disc, that's not the case.

      So, all other things being equal, they should be seeing higher rates of damaged returns than a DVD rental company does. This != Favoritism.

  14. It won't matter in a couple years anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately, I predict that in the next gen consoles, the PRIMARY method of content distribution will be internet-based.

    There are too many advantages to internet based distribution.

    By doing this, game companies can tightly regulate prices on games and destroy secondary markets.

  15. mc1138 got it all wrong.. by msimm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The game rental business is the one with the nails going into it's coffin. Remind me again why you'd need a physical disk? And with theft, loss and damage Gamefly is living proof (so to speak) that A) there's a market for game rental B) renting *physical* media is costly and logistically complicated.

    --
    Quack, quack.
    1. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      because there's no way in hell I'm going to pull 50gb through my broadband connection? Even at 16 mb/s.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    2. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      Why would you want a game that takes up 50 GB? Any game that approaches that level of data consumption must be seriously abusing full motion video, probably to the point of using pretty much the entire development budget on it. Either that or it is storing trillion polygon models for the specs of dust in the game, and similarly absurd texture sizes.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    3. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Remind me again why you'd need a physical disk?

      So those assholes don't decide they don't want me playing it anymore. So I don't accidentally delete it. So I can loan it to a friend. Same reason I still buy CD's (well, the once a year I find something worth listening to), rip them, and throw them in a storage tub.

    4. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by mellestad · · Score: 1

      Because I doubt even half of console owners have the broadband pipe to use an online service like that. And many that do have caps. I'm not going to pay $1 per GB for a game on top of what my rental charges. It would probably work in Japan.

    5. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      I think the GP meant for rental, though I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments with respect to buying games. Rental is something I might do digitally. Permanent purchase is loathsome.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    6. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by Malevolyn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And no way in hell anyone would want to fund just the bandwidth to run that kind of service and provide worthwhile speed.

      --
      Your ad here.
    7. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. Revisit this post three years from now
      2. Laugh heartily
      3. Profit?

    8. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by cizoozic · · Score: 1

      No kidding, I remember being outraged that some game (Monster Truck Madness possibly? Maybe not?) wanted 100MB of my HDD space. 100 smegging megs! What do you even DO with all that space?

    9. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      Because 4.7GiB of bandwidth can be more expensive than the approx. $1 in two-way shipping that it costs to place the disc in the mail, and not everybody has a network connection able to stream those quantities of data.

      Bandwidth might not be as expensive as Time Warner and co. are making it out to be, though it certainly isn't free.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    10. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by xaxa · · Score: 1

      It would take me about 2 hours to download 4.7GiB, which is a lot faster than delivery by mail (say, next morning if I order before 3pm-ish). Even if I had the UK's soon-to-be-minimum 2Mbit/s broadband connection, it would take 5 hours, still faster than post.

      The cost of the shipping isn't just the $1 for a stamp. You need to add the packaging, and the people packing the games, and the people collecting the returned games. You also need to deal with discs going missing, and pay for the warehouse.

      But for downloads, you need the servers and staff to maintain them. I'm not going to guess which would be cheaper.

    11. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      I think you may have confused the renting of downloaded games, with the ownership of games on physical media.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    12. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by keithpreston · · Score: 1
      Nope, I believe the rental market for Games and DVDs will last for at least 10 years if not 15. Mostly because of Corporate Greed. There is not one media company that will sell you or rent you a digital copy of their media for even a slight discount on their margin of profit. This is because if they do, everyone will buy it that way and they will lose money on people that would pay for overpriced media. They will continue to charge the same for digital distribution and physical media. Look at Steam, often a game is more expensive on Steam. Except for the lazy, why would someone buy a digital copy that has no resale value, when for the same cost or less you can get media which has resale value.

      Take movies for example. To most people the usefulness of a movie is for 1 day. The Media can last through hundred of cycles of that. Until digital cost is (Media cost)/100 rental makes sense. Games are a tougher market because they are 2-3 times as costly and people want to use them for probably 1-2 weeks (Games are getting shorter).

      While tough, the only way to root out the rental market is PRICING! Go figure that is the same way to root out the Used Market! Probably even a lot of the Pirated Market! However companies are greedy and this means all of these markets will flourish

    13. Re:mc1138 got it all wrong.. by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Mailing hudnreds of thousands of physical DVDs in the mail is actually an impressive amount of bandwidth, far more than anything netflix's or gamefly's servers could begin to handle.

  16. A Matter of Incentive by nrozema · · Score: 1

    Perhaps a subscriber has more incentive to report a $50 DRM-ridden copy protected game "lost in the mail" than a $15 DVD they can simply "burn and return". What makes Gamefly so sure it's the USPS?

    1. Re:A Matter of Incentive by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      Game console disks can be copied moderately easily, and are most definately not DRM-ridden. I don't think PS3 games are copyable, but I believe that's due more to the Blu-ray disks than anything. The Xbox 360 and Wii both do disk checks to make sure they're pressed discs and not DVD+/-R's, but modded drive firmwares can falsify this information. The 360 disks have a security sector that have to be replaced, but this process is simple, and Wii disks have to be read with 'compatible' DVD drives, but these are minor setbacks to copying game disks from the two systems.

    2. Re:A Matter of Incentive by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 1

      >>What makes Gamefly so sure it's the USPS?

      Because time after time, investigations discover that usps employees were stealing discs. I would never say that all (or even very many) usps employees would steal, or that customers never lie about missing games. However, we have several clear-cut instances of theft.

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
  17. It's not USPS's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gamefly and Netflix are both aware that the automatic sorting machine damages discs. They've been aware of this for quite some time, and to save a few cents on shipping, continue to utilize the automatic sorting instead of manual sorting. As for the non-favorable treatment, it's bullshit. I've received numerous damaged Netflix DVDs.

    1. Re:It's not USPS's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is reading a difficult concept for you? It helps you not look like a lazy, ignorant moron if that's any incentive to finally learn. Everything you mentioned was already covered in the article. Everything you said was wrong. Good job.

    2. Re:It's not USPS's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is nothing wrong with my previous statement, ya f'ing illiterate, narcissistic, 4-channing, trolling biotch!

  18. The simple solution by actionbastard · · Score: 1

    Insured mail. Customers opt for insured delivery of the merchandise and are charged an extra $1.00 a month. If the game is 'lost in the mail', USPS pays for the game. Once it starts to cost the USPS real money, there will never be a 'lost' game again.

    --
    Sig this!
    1. Re:The simple solution by Tacvek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that you cannot send the disc back insured mailed without handing the disc to a postal employee behind the counter of the local post office. I'm also not aware of any sort of pre-payed reply mail program that includes insurance, so the insurance on the return would be coming out of the customer's pocket. No chance in hell.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
  19. USPS is horrible by evolvearth · · Score: 1

    I try to avoid USPS when purchasing merchandise online. There was one website that only offered USPS, and I purchased a product through them twice. The first time around, the product took about a week and a half to arrive to my home when the estimated time was 3 business days.

    I ordered a second time. I was hesitant, but I figured a little bit of extra waiting wouldn't kill me, and I wanted an additional product from that site. I waited the three business days and nothing came--I wasn't surprised. So I waited s'more, and I decided to check the useless tracking feature USPS has to see if there were any updates. Turns out my item was already delivered...the day before I checked the tracking. It never arrived in my mailbox, but it said it was sent. I filed a complaint and was assured by the mail lady that when something is scanned in, it means it was put in the right mailbox. She claimed that it could've been a kid who stole it out of the box. I was pissed, and I felt like I was robbed. A week later, my brother checks the mail right after the mail lady delivered, and lo and behold, there is my package. What the fuck happened!? Where the hell was it? Was it put in the wrong box and someone had the decency to put it back in the box so it gets delivered to the right address? Was someone a little careless with the scanner? I was glad I received the merchandise, but I took this as my second warning. I won't use USPS again, because the third time I may not be so lucky.

    1. Re:USPS is horrible by Renraku · · Score: 1

      The actual moral of the story is that USPS is fine for sending letters. But it was not set up to handle goods. No one wants your spam mail. But they sure as hell want your GameFly packages.

      From the start I never found that GameFly was a good idea. What happens when your neighbor sees you carrying in a GameFly package, and you don't have a locked mailbox? Or what happens when some mail employee wants some free games? The USPS just doesn't have the tracking capabilities to figure out what the hell happened to that copy of Resistance 2 they sent you a month ago.

      UPS does. So does FedEx. If you signed for it then claimed you didn't get it, tough shit. Proof-of-delivery is the industry standard for goods. 90% of shipping and delivery companies use some kind of proof of delivery for billing/logistical purposes.

      --
      Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
  20. i promise its not USPS by Tyrannousdotnet · · Score: 1

    whoa, its more like 80,000 people CLAIM they sent back their game. if you had a 50-60$ game and could claim USPS lost your send back, why wouldnt you?

  21. The problem .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. is not the USPS. Its that these companies try to mail a DVD/CD as a *letter*. And Netflix is just as bad, however, due to their volume, and the fact that their bright red "envelopes" stand out they are easy to pull out and send to be hand-sorted - personally I feel they should be forced to pay parcel rate.

    Hint - the machines that the USPS needs to use in order to be able to sort millions of letters every day require that letters be flexible, as they are transported by belts that have to run around 12" diameter wheels at a rate of up to 40,000 letters per hour. To safely mail a DVD or CD, you need to put it in a hard plastic/cardboard case, seal it with packaging tape (not scotch tape), and mail it as a *parcel* - think back to how AOL CD's were mailed and how they always arrived safely - you don't need to be quite as fancy, but the package needs to be more than just an envelope or a paper wrapper, and if you don't want it to be flexed, don't send it as a letter. (The machine that sort parcels don't need to flex the mail)

    This applies to anything, pen/pencils, rulers, candy - if you don't want it flexed, send it as a parcel (package), not a letter. (And yes, the postage is more)

    (And in case you didn't guess, I do work for the USPS, but since I am not an official 'spokesperson' I am posting as AC)

    1. Re:The problem .. by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      AOL's CDs were also made of plastic, and very hard to break.

  22. How many blueray games do you by msimm · · Score: 1

    own?

    --
    Quack, quack.
    1. Re:How many blueray games do you by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      I own four, why?

  23. Even so, there are better ways to handle it by davidwr · · Score: 1

    First off, they are probably paying more than retail since they are buying rental rights as well.

    A reasonable agreement would be something like this:

    Buy rental rights, resale rights, and "retail box media" separately. How the actual numbers work out is between GameFly and the publishers, but it should be something on the order of:

    *$x/week for every week a particular copy is available for rental or every time it is rented, OR a % cut of all rentals
    *$y for every sale, with a discount applied for "used" disks based on how many times they've been rented.
    *$z for every media set, where $z is slightly more than the incremental production cost.

    If a disk is destroyed and replaced, GameFly is out an additional $z.

    If a disk is destroyed and NOT replaced, GameFly is out their share of the money they would get from the sale, and the vendor is out $y. But this isn't unfair to the publisher, since the customer that would have bought this copy anyways will probably buy a copy from somewhere. The vendor also loses since the $x/week stops as soon as the media is no longer rentable.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  24. XXX by Rick+Bentley · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...constant emails like 'have you got XXX yet?' or 'When did you send back XXX?'.

    I see we rent the same stuff.

    --
    My favorite quote doesn't fit into 120 characters. Now no one will like me.
    1. Re:XXX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Hey, I love that movie, too!

    2. Re:XXX by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      What, you like Vin Diesel?

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    3. Re:XXX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would never publicly admit to being a Vin Diesel fan...

  25. registered post? by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

    i don't know how it works in the us, but here, if i pay an extra fee, i can send registered mail or parcel, which is guaranteed to arrive at the correct place without any damage. if you are sending things that are valuable enough to get stolen or fragile enough to get broken, pay some more.

    --
    Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
  26. Incorrect... by TiggertheMad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...its called 'bit torrent', and it streams all sorts of games...

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  27. actually, you're wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    They're not a monopoly, and they are subsidized, horribly. They don't pay any property tax, personal property tax, inventory tax or employment tax. They do have some weird thing with paying VA benefits for veterans they hire, but still, don't say they aren't subsidized.

  28. Reasons for that... by TiggertheMad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Mailbox access rule gives the postal service exclusive access to the customer mailboxes. Your mailbox is federal property, and it would be criminal trespass, and a felony under federal law for any employee of a competitor to deposit mail in anyone's mailbox.

    That particular law isn't there for preserve a monopoly, its there to let them really put a dent in anyone foolish enough to steal mail. (mail related crimes are usually a federal offense.) My father was a postmaster, and mail theft is a very real problem. Postal Inspectors are the USPS equivalent of the FBI, and you do not want to get on their bad side.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
    1. Re:Reasons for that... by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      If that is the reason for the law to be there, it doesn't have to prohibit anyone from putting anything INTO the mailbox.

      Of course, I could imagine some other reasons for that, to decimate mail spam, or to avoid the problem of full mailboxes, and what to do with the mail in that case.

  29. One difference between Netflix and Gamefly by Draconistarum · · Score: 1

    Netflix has a much more manageable envelope. A Gamefly envelope is completely square while Netflix uses the standard rectangle. USPS charges more for square envelopes because they are harder to reliably ship. The harder to ship part is what makes them inefficient. The discs are likely to be broken because there's only so much care that can be given to something that looks almost exactly like fifty million other things

    1. Re:One difference between Netflix and Gamefly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly - they need to use machineable dvd mailers like these. Ones that are the proper shape and keep the weight down (and dont require an extra box.

  30. No special treatment for Netflix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I don't agree that Netflix or similar services get preferential treatment. I work for the USPS at a Remote Encoding Center. Netflix is sorted using the automated machines just like Gamefly. Has anyone thought that maybe the customers are keeping the games and just saying they were lost? Didn't that used to happen at brick and motor stores as well? Yes the automated sorting machines have the possibility to damage items, but they also are what has increased mail delivery times allowing you to get your game/movie in 2 days.

    1. Re:No special treatment for Netflix by rob1980 · · Score: 1

      Didn't that used to happen at brick and motor stores as well?

      Nice work sneaking a car analogy into the discussion!

  31. They have a packaging problem by Animats · · Score: 1

    Reading the complaint, they have a good case. Netflix and Blockbuster don't have this problem because their items are getting special handling. They want equally good treatment.

    The basic problem is that they want to ship DVDs through the first class mail system, not via parcel post. As a first class item, they can't put in enough stiffeners to protect the item and stay under the 1 oz rate, or even the 2 oz rate.

    If you ship a DVD in a DVD case in a fibreboard DVD mailer, it won't be damaged unless someone steps on it or runs it over. But the mailer will cost about $0.30 in quantity, and mailing it will cost $1.34. They're trying to get the first class mail rate for "1 oz envelope containing a rigid object" of $0.62, or 2oz for $0.72. The extra dollar in shipping cost to get the product delivered safely would kill their profit margin.

    1. Re:They have a packaging problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly, USPS instutited shape-based mailing requirements like the rest of the world does. They have proper mailers for this. These companies just want it like it used to be, but USPS loses so much if they hand process them, its unsustainable.

  32. simple plan by TRRosen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    reduce losses by not using a bright orange envelope that screams expensive game. hell just make it red like Netflix and people will assume its just a DVD.

    its the same reason you never send a birthday card in a colored envelope.

  33. Blockbuster by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    Get the companies to agree to replace damaged merchandise that's sent back to them at cost ($5 or so).

  34. one to two percent breakage? by Darth+Cider · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I worked for the Postal Service for 13 years. I can't believe that 1 in 1000 disks would be broken as a result of normal mail processing, even OCR machined mail, much less 1 in 100 or 1 in 50. If that is truly happening, there can be only one reason - the disks are packaged improperly. That is, the packaging is especially designed to be chewed up in mail processing equipment. Is there one Postal worker here who could comment on Gamefly's packaging?

    I would not be surprised if the packaging were unsuitable and Gamefly knew it, too. Where I worked, there were three large accounts - both with headquarters nearby - that simply would not listen to USPS feedback about how poorly suited their packaging was to the requirements of processing. One of them moved its headquarters to a different state, rather than simply change the kinds of envelopes it used. Their mail wasn't machinable (but could have been) and moved too slowly, but there was nothing the USPS could do about that, because hand-sorting is, well, slow. Another of the companies printed its catalogs with a highly glossy paper that was so slippery that catalogs would slide from their chutes in the sorting machine and go into the wrong outgoing containers, resulting in delays. The third had envelopes that were incredibly flimsy and incompatible with machining.

    I just have to call bullshit on Gamefly. The Postal Service is an easy fall guy. Theft of such a magnitude is just not possible, not within the confines of the mail service. These people are honest and proud of it, except for the few inevitable bad apples.

  35. USPS money saving solution: They don't pay by gkitty · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I've been trying for over 6 months to get USPS to pay on a computer that was evidently stolen by a postal employee. They don't pay. Package was registered, signature required, insured, and they don't contest that they never delivered. Still the beaurocracy doesn't stop. Here's what I've learned: USPS doesn't really track anything; they have little idea whatever happened to a package or where it went when. Postal employees know this and the bad ones will cherry pick expensive packages. When a package goes missing, they don't pay; they require you to wait before filing. By the time you file, they will forevermore tell you they don't have any information on your package & insurance number; their computer system finds the number but all the information is 'archived' and the archive has no online access and requires days to look up, which they say they will do, but they don't. Eventually, they will tell you to resubmit all your paperwork, and you repeat this process. Also, when you insure a package for $1000, you might assume they will pay $1000 when they admit they never delivered, but no. They will require you to furnish proof of this value, and they will evaluate whether your proof warrants the insurance value you bought. Then they will continue to not pay. Good luck escalating, because all escalation procedures will require that they get back in touch with the people that have been ignoring the problem all along.

    I wish I was joking!

  36. My Semi-Relevant Anecdote. by McNally · · Score: 4, Interesting

    About six years ago I lived in an eastside suburb of Seattle and subscribed to Netflix. I cancelled after about four months because during that time four movies never reached me and I wound up paying Netflix for one of them (I probably could have avoided that if I'd made a stink, but as I figured it they'd already eaten the cost of several other movies.)

    Around about that time a substantial check that I was expecting to receive disappeared in the mail, and I noticed that other items were disappearing in the mail, too. I called to cancel a magazine gift subscription a well-meaning relative had signed me up for and discovered that they'd been sending the magazine for six months, though I had only received one issue. Between the movies, the magazines, and the missing check it was clear that I had a problem with disappearing mail.

    So I went down to the local post office and asked to speak with the local postmaster. I explained about the missing magazines, movies, and check, and told him that I suspected I was a victim of ongoing mail theft.

    He assured me that he'd look into the situation and was turning to go back into the bowels of the post office when I interrupted. "You're lying," I said. He said something to the effect of "That's an awfully rude thing to say for no reason," but I knew he had no intention of seriously looking into my complaint and I told him why. During our entire conversation I hadn't mentioned my address and he never asked.

    His body language led me to believe that he had a carrier on his staff (or possibly several) that he knew was stealing mail. I figured as soon as I told him I was losing mail he knew who the likely culprit was without even having to ask which route I was on but either couldn't or wouldn't stop them.

    Shortly thereafter I moved to a small town in Alaska. The mail service here is reliable and the people at the post office are very nice. To the best of my knowledge none of my mail has ever gone missing here. I've talked to other people who have had mail problems and everything I've heard has lead me to believe that the reliability of your mail depends a great deal on the people working at the post office nearest you and in some places at the nearest big sorting center.

    It's a shame, because if you live in a place where the service is good, the USPS is pretty nifty. You tend not to think of it because the mail is so ordinary, but the fact that I can drop a piece of paper in the box on the corner here on an island in southeast Alaska and for $0.42 someone will carry it to my family back in Michigan or even halfway around the world is really pretty remarkable.

  37. Terrible loss by Snaller · · Score: 1

    If those numbers are correct thats a terrible loss, its like the US postal service is about as good as the Nukak-Maku express delivery in the Amazon jungle!

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  38. No adult films on Netflix by AlpineR · · Score: 1

    Are you sure you're talking about Netflix? Search for "adult" on their site and you'll get the message "We do not carry X-rated or mature titles."

    Are you sure you read an article about Netflix employees pilfering the incoming mail? The summary itself notes an arrest of Post Office employees, but I've never heard of a problem with Netflix employees.

    1. Re:No adult films on Netflix by noc007 · · Score: 1

      They use to carry pr0n. My first membership was back in 2001 and I do recall seeing some pr0n and hentai titles. These days they don't carry that stuff anymore and there are other similar services that have filled that market.

    2. Re:No adult films on Netflix by falcon5768 · · Score: 1

      They still do carry hentai titles, just not straight porn nor do they carry even the softcore joke titles like Bare Witch and the like.

      --

      "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

  39. Wrong mailers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they would spend the extra few cents on machineable mailers, this probably wouldn't happen.

  40. "and a game costs $50 to replace" by xaosflux · · Score: 1

    Claiming that the lost MEDIA costs more then a few dollars to "replace" is utter bull (assuming it includes a printed manual). If they loose a copy, they just press another, and another, and another--to think that huge distributors like Netflix, Gamefly, etc are actually getting retail copies of the media is ridiculous.

  41. For fuck's sake by godless+dave · · Score: 1

    It's spelled "led".

    --
    "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." -
  42. Also by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Compared to many countries, the US mail system is amazing. Now I'm not just talking 3rd world places, I'm talking industrialized nations like, say, Canada. My parents live in Canada and while Canada Post is many things, expedient isn't one of them. It is amazing the amount of time it takes for mail to get around there. They do online and phone sales for their business, so they've lots of experience with it. I also see it when they mail me something, it'll take 2 weeks to get to US customs, and then 3 days to get to my house.

    For its faults, the USPS really is an amazing organization. Then consider that it is self funded. It isn't some money sink that we have to throw tax dollars in to for it to be good, the prices they charge sustain their business. That says to me that they really are doing their job well.

  43. Not only is it a crime by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    But they have their own police force, this USPIS. They are real, sworn federal officers for the purpose of investigating mail crime. Now as one might imagine, since that is ALL they do, they pursue it with more attention than a standard police force might. So while a CD getting stolen from you car is something your local PD really doesn't have time to investigate, a CD getting stolen form the mail is something the postal inspectors are quite interested in.

  44. Seriously? by msimm · · Score: 1

    Backing up digital media from the drive is possible even with digital distribution methods (like Steam). I don't believe one is more crippled then the other.

    --
    Quack, quack.
    1. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But even if you back it up using steam you still have to ask their servers permission to use it, and therein lies the problem

  45. Too true by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Informative

    When something is important, plain is the way to go. As a great example look at credit cards, or other financial documents. When you are getting an offer, it is usually pretty obvious from the envelope what it is. There's all sorts of advertising plastered on the outside "OMG Chase card with t3h zeros percentage rate!!!11". Now suppose you apply for said card. Does it come in the same thing? No, it comes in a plain white envelope with nothing but your address and the return address on the outside. This is not because the advertising and issuing departments don't share notes, this is because they don't want your card getting stolen. The offer, well big deal they are mailing those out to everyone with a pulse. They'll just send you another one next month (and the month after, and so on). The card, well that is a problem. Someone steals that and you are pissed off and they are on the hook for the fraudulent charges.

  46. My experience differs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They may rape you later.

  47. You are posting deliberate misinfo by Ifthir · · Score: 1

    "I worked for the Postal Service for 13 years." - OK, I'll be honest, this statement alone biased me against you, but I'll bite. "I can't believe that 1 in 1000 disks would be broken as a result of normal mail processing, even OCR machined mail, much less 1 in 100 or 1 in 50." -That is because the rates are likely higher. My wife's company ships DVD's as a competitor to Netflix and Gamefly, and Gamefly is 100% accurate in their complaint. The USPS machines eat the mailers, destroy the disks, and even if you attempt to 'package it right' the USPS sends your company's disks back to Netflix! "The Postal Service is an easy fall guy." - That is because, like most government entities, they are typically inefficient and ineffective in their duties. They are an easy fall guy because of their track record, not because someone just felt like blaming them. "Theft of such a magnitude is just not possible, not within the confines of the mail service." - Wrong. Gamefly got 19 people busted, and my wife has personally gotten 9 people busted in just the last year, 4 in one specific post office location. This isn't speculation, it's fact. "These people are honest and proud of it, except for the few inevitable bad apples." - Some, yes. My grandfather was the head of the Cleveland Post Office Union for 12 years, so I know both sides of this story, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that Gamefly is dead on in their suit. That said, that doesn't mean they will win, sadly.

  48. Penalty by jgoemat · · Score: 1

    There's a lot of speculating about the penalties, why not go right to the U.S. Code? Employees or officers can be fined and/or imprisoned for up to five years. Title 18, Part I, Chapter 83, Â 1709, 'Theft of mail matter by officer or employee':

    Whoever, being a Postal Service officer or employee, embezzles any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein entrusted to him or which comes into his possession intended to be conveyed by mail, or carried or delivered by any carrier, messenger, agent, or other person employed in any department of the Postal Service, or forwarded through or delivered from any post office or station thereof established by authority of the Postmaster General or of the Postal Service; or steals, abstracts, or removes from any such letter, package, bag, or mail, any article or thing contained therein, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

  49. what bout those pizza menusi get in the mail? by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    how do all these pizza and curry menus appear in my mail box? dropped of by a street walker.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    1. Re:what bout those pizza menusi get in the mail? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Either they're mailed, put there with permission of the post office, or put there illegally.

      I've never seen pizza or curry menus randomly appearing in my mailbox...

      Perhaps you live in an area frequented by guerilla marketers who aren't concerned about the law.

      Sometimes, guerilla marketers will even post SIGNs on people's lawns or in retailers' front yarsd.

      Of course they have no legal right to post signs on other people's property, and it's a form of trespass. They do it anyways, because there's not much recourse unless you can figure out who did it.

      A competing "postal service" would never be able to thrive effectively using such tactics, they'd get busted if they ever got popular enough to matter.

  50. preferential treatment by drkwatr · · Score: 1

    Why are some packages treated better simply based on the company? Shouldn't all packages regardless of originating company, and insurance be treated the same? Of course I always felt the insurance was more like extortion. I shouldn't have to pay that to insure you provide the service I just paid you for. Oh and for another 65 cents I can get delivery confirmation. "So basically what your saying is there is no guaranty that my package will be delivered, and if it is the condition of said package is up in arms". I don't know about you all, but If I was in charge of so many important items of our country's I think I would at least have something in place to at least scan every single package in and out to know that near 100% of our services are being delivered. Hell, I no longer trust the USPS with any of my packages not even junk mail. Good riddance.

  51. Bob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does anyone know how much Netflix pay per item to USPS?