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Can the New Digital Readers Save the Newspapers?

Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that several companies plan to introduce digital newspaper readers by the end of the year with screens roughly the size of a standard sheet of paper to present much of the editorial and advertising content of traditional periodicals in generally the same format as they appear in print. Publishers hope the new readers may be a way to get consumers to pay for those periodicals — something they have been reluctant to do on the Web — while allowing publishers to save millions on the cost of printing and distributing their publications, at precisely a time when their businesses are under historic levels of pressure from the loss of readers and advertising. 'We are looking at this with a great deal of interest,' said John Ridding, the chief executive of the 121-year-old British newspaper The Financial Times. 'The severe double whammy of the recession and the structural shift to the Internet has created an urgency that has rightly focused attention on these devices.' The new tablets will start with some serious shortcomings: the screens, which are currently in the Kindle and Sony Reader, display no color or video and update images at a slower rate than traditional computer screens. But many think the E-ink readers are simply too little, too late and have not appeared in time to save the troubled realm of print media. 'If these devices had been ready for the general consumer market five years ago, we probably could have taken advantage of them quickly,' said Roger Fidler, the program director for digital publishing at the University of Missouri, Columbia. 'Now the earliest we might see large-scale consumer adoption is next year, and unlike the iPod it's going to be a slower process migrating people from print to the device.'"

289 comments

  1. Answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    No.

    Next question?

    1. Re:Answer: by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Am I the only person left on earth that like and often prefers to read things printed on dead trees?

      I mean, yes, for a living, I stare at a computer all day. I read on it all day, BUT, I often take things that are important, that I want to remember and quickly refer to and print them off. I wouldn't be interested in a kindle, I like to read real books, ones that I can dogear and whatever. I find that when I have things I"ve printed off, I often doodle on the pages and mark or highlight things. I find that like when I was taking notes in school, I can picture in my head the exact page with doodles and all on what I'm trying to look up or remember.

      I can't seem to do the same thing with a computer screen.

      That and for a newspaper, and granted these days I only get the Sunday paper, but, I like it for the coupons I can clip. I like to take out the store ads for BB and other places, take them with me when I go shopping.

      And frankly, how the hell are you supposed to start the charcoal in the 'chimney' starter without newspaper? Not to mention, I'd not like to spread out a bunch of e-newspapers on a table during crawfish season to eat off of....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Answer: by fluffykitty1234 · · Score: 1

      I completely agree, I'd rather be holding a book/newspaper/magazine than trying to read the equivalent online.

    3. Re:Answer: by vlm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Remember the pre-internet BBS days, like Compuserve, Prodigy, etc? Selling tiny little low res newspaper readers, would be like in the 90s when the pre-internet BBSes were going down, trying to boost subscriber numbers by selling a tiny low res fisher-price laptop that can only connect to Prodigy, while the rest of the market moves to the internet on their PC.

      It kind of makes me laugh.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Answer: by khendron · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I used to prefer dead-tree books until I got an iPod Touch last December. Since then my reading habits have been revolutionized. I've read almost 2 dozen books since then, and all but 3 were on my iPod. It is not the *same* as reading a paper book, but the benefits balance the cons quite nicely.

      --
      Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
    5. Re:Answer: by boombaard · · Score: 3, Informative

      Am I the only person left on earth that like and often prefers to read things printed on dead trees?

      Hardly.

      I mean, yes, for a living, I stare at a computer all day. I read on it all day, BUT, I often take things that are important, that I want to remember and quickly refer to and print them off. I wouldn't be interested in a kindle, I like to read real books, ones that I can dogear and whatever.

      0. eInk is not at all comparable to TFTs/LCDs/CRTs. It's a stable image, with contrast approaching normal printed text even now.
      1. You can bookmark on kindles (and other readers) as well.
      2. You can even make 1 file per 'printed bit of information', and still keep it organized (in 'file folders' etc)
      3. Sure, currently the opening times aren't in real time yet, but in a 3rd gen or later device i imagine they'll be fast enough to be at least as quick as first having to find a piece of paper in a humongous stack (say, 50 printed research papers of 30-40p each).

      I find that when I have things I"ve printed off, I often doodle on the pages and mark or highlight things.

      Have a look at, say, the DR1000, or the coming PlasticLogic reader. at least the iRex device has a wacom pen that allows you to scribble in pdfs/image files.

      I find that like when I was taking notes in school, I can picture in my head the exact page with doodles and all on what I'm trying to look up or remember.

      You realise that with very little extra effort you'd be able to attach tags or whatnot to bookmarked passages, or have the reading program spit out all bookmarked/underlined/marked passages into a different file that links back to the main file, etc.?

      I can't seem to do the same thing with a computer screen.

      Which is why eReaders aren't pc screens without tablet functionality built in (although those touchscreen PCs as displayed by Jeff Han, or in the latest James Bond film or Knight Rider (2008) might allow you to do similar things).

      That and for a newspaper, and granted these days I only get the Sunday paper, but, I like it for the coupons I can clip. I like to take out the store ads for BB and other places, take them with me when I go shopping.

      So, advertising will change. Shops will have to in order to survive. Just Be Patient.

      And frankly, how the hell are you supposed to start the charcoal in the 'chimney' starter without newspaper?

      With something else?

    6. Re:Answer: by syntheticmemory · · Score: 1

      As long as you can roll it up and swat flies with it, I'll consider getting one.

    7. Re:Answer: by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would rather be holding a book to reading stuff onscreen. I would rather be holding a reflective flexible reader (e-ink and the like) to holding a newspaper. Most noticeable reasons: a newspaper is disgusting to hold, and it kills lots of trees for mostly meaningless content that will be irrelevant by tomorrow. For durable content, go dead tree. Makes sense. For transitory content, don't waste valuable resources and energy converting trees into landfill bulk. Leave it in the for of transient electrical charges. We can always print a hardcopy for archiving purposes.

      --
      I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
    8. Re:Answer: by oldhack · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and try wiping yo ass with a LCD.

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    9. Re:Answer: by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Yeah, and try wiping yo ass with a LCD."

      Oh right!! I almost forgot....how would you paper train a puppy with an e-reader???

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    10. Re:Answer: by blitzkrieg3 · · Score: 1

      Am I the only person left on earth that like and often prefers to read things printed on dead trees?

      I prefer it as well, and I subscribe to the New York Times, but I still believe he answered the question accurately. The new digital readers can't save the news industry.

      I still wind up reading stories on the website anyway whenever it's linked from /.

      That and for a newspaper, and granted these days I only get the Sunday paper, but, I like it for the coupons I can clip. I like to take out the store ads for BB and other places, take them with me when I go shopping.

      Then you admit that in times past you bought a paper, but now that you have a computer you don't bother?

      You're making GP's case for him.

    11. Re:Answer: by Cathbard · · Score: 1
      Well, I for one still prefer books. I enjoy reading a good book at night in bed before I go to sleep (no, not porno magazines before you suggest it, you filthy bastards). There is still no substitute for a tired set of eyes than print on a book, especially after staring at a monitor all day.

      As for news, well no, I get my news from the internet like any normal person these days. I don't trust newspapers and prefer to have alternate takes on the subject matter easily available - like the insightful comments here on slashdot. :)

      --
      "A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist" - Sir Humphrey Appleby
    12. Re:Answer: by value_added · · Score: 1

      Am I the only person left on earth that like and often prefers to read things printed on dead trees?

      No worries, mate, you're in good company.

      That's not to say I don't have this unfulfilled ambition (fantasy?) to read things as they do on Star Trek, while being able to access or carry around the sum total of everything that's available in print.

      Books in can't be beat, but I'd like to think that newspapers will find a new "medium" and we can do away with the problems of newsprint. My guess is that by the time this all shakes out, we may have some sort of device that satisfies the basic reading experience requirements we all demand, and newspapers, books and magazines will all be available in this new form.

      It's entirely possible that reading Shakespeare on leather-bound Kindle type of device may be similar enough (or possibly superiour to) reading the real thing. Then again, given the intractable nature of the publishing industry, we may never get there. For now, however, I'd be happy if it proves to be a saviour for the newspaper industry.

    13. Re:Answer: by Z00L00K · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are benefits of having a dead tree, and there are benefits of having a device. The dead tree is reusable in a different fashion and can be used to light a fire, don't need batteries and can also be used to take care of liquid overflow.

      The battery powered device is good in another way because it won't get bigger and heavier just because you load it with more information. And it can do things a dead tree never can - like being interactive or interact with other devices.

      But if a battery powered reader isn't allowing the user to use it the way the user wants it it's going to be a dead end because you will only get a limited number of users and you will see competition from other data formats and manufacturers. The DRM hell will also cause a lot of agony and make it fail.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    14. Re:Answer: by pnuema · · Score: 1

      And frankly, how the hell are you supposed to start the charcoal in the 'chimney' starter without newspaper? I use printer paper. Specifically, old manuals that I printed out that are no longer needed.

    15. Re:Answer: by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      It's entirely possible that reading Shakespeare on leather-bound Kindle type of device may be similar enough (or possibly superiour to) reading the real thing.

      It is worth considering that the real thing as we think of it is not at all the real thing which we would have had in Shakespeare's day - his manuscripts were probably hand-written with an ink quill on parchment, and only meant to be performed anyway rather than read.

      I think this raises an interesting question - how much of our attachment to printed ink on paper is mere intertia and sentiment, and how much of it is really based on the utility of the medium? As mediums go, ink on the cheap paper and held together by the horrendous glued 'perfect binding' we use nowadays is one of the worst for longevity, quality, and beauty, and yet we've all become quite attached to it. Books, as we currently make them, can be beat quite easily.

      It is not so hard to forsee a time where we forego completely printing information on sheets of pulp, and sending it physically around the world, for fetching it electronically for display on a screen. That time is not so very far away. If you total up the time spent reading on an LCD screen compared to reading paper in everyday life, for many denizens of this site you'd already be reading more online than you ever do printed materials.

      Personally, I already do most of my reading on an LCD (with all the disadvantages of current tech), and as tech improves can't see that declining at all - on the contrary, once ebooks pass through the inevitable 50 types of incompatible DRM stage (see music, software, movies) and come out the other side, I think they'll be a good candidate for our data storage and retrieval needs - they can't do worse than our current stock of books, 90% of which will disintegrate in their bindings over the next few hundred years.

      As for newspapers, the writing was on the wall for them a long time ago, but I think the same could be said for books, there is just no clear contender to replace them. I imagine most of the big companies will reinvent themselves as information gatherers, but there is a big shake-up due in the industry, and moving to electronic tablets will not prevent that - the internet has completely changed the way we consume information, and simply changing the medium used to present their newspapers on is not going to save a lot of these companies.

    16. Re:Answer: by Foolicious · · Score: 1

      I enjoy reading a good book at night in bed before I go to sleep (no, not porno magazines before you suggest it, you filthy bastards)

      The slashdotter doth premptively protest too much, methinks.

      --
      Please don't use "umm" or "err" or "erm".
    17. Re:Answer: by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      Am I the only person left on earth that like and often prefers to read things printed on dead trees?

      No, but I for one struggle with the form factor. The only place I can read my local 'broad sheet' newspaper is on my kitchen table. It's too ridiculously large for the bus, the counter at the diner etc. I wish I could get my 'paper' in the same form factor as a thick magazine. Then I could read it in more places.

    18. Re:Answer: by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Kill more trees. Our forestry industry needs it. Next person that tells me that we're deforesting North America I'm going to smack in the forehead.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    19. Re:Answer: by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>Am I the only person left on earth that like and often prefers to read things printed on dead trees?

      No but you're definitely in the minority. I can just sit here, in my lounge chair, browsing through the news while watching Simpsons reruns and barely move a muscle.

      But books are so *heavy* to hold up. Even if you're laying in bed, after awhile the weight of the 500 or 1000 page tome tires-out your arms. And sitting-up while bending-over makes your neck hurt. It's just so much easier to effortlessly read through a book while it scrolls across my self-supporting computer screen.

      (click)
      read
      (click)
      read
      (click)

      Yep I'm lazy. ;-)

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    20. Re:Answer: by theaveng · · Score: 1

      You committed the broken window fallacy, which states breaking windows creates work for the glassmaker. While that's true, it's more efficient not to break the window in the first place and instead spend that money on some other activity (like saving it for your kids' college fund, or buying new jeans, or whatever). The same applies to trees. It's better not to cut down the trees if you don't have to.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    21. Re:Answer: by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Not really. You realize it costs more to recycle paper, than it does to cut down a tree and make new pulp for paper right? The broken window fallacy only applies if the costs weigh in one direction comparative to the other.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    22. Re:Answer: by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Uh. What??? Recycled paper has nothing to do with what we were discussing (e-readers). Using a paper-free medium is the cheapest option of all. Yes cutting-down trees would help employ loggers, but that would be a "broken window"-type fallacy.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    23. Re:Answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a problem with buying our excess CO2?

      Because that's what newspapers do. Special tree farms that only exist to (eventually) turn into newspapers (at a young age, usually, so it isn't like there's a bunch of local wildlife being disturbed) are planted. While growing, the trees absorb CO2 and produce oxygen. We then convert the tree into a newspaper and plant a replacement.

      Basically, not only a sustainable process, but an extremely healthy one, too.

      Now, as far as how nasty the chemicals used to make the paper are, or how nasty the chemicals used in the inks are is another debate. But there's no debate over the fact that encouraging companies to plant trees, even if it is just to yank them out in 10 years and replace them, is a great idea.

    24. Re:Answer: by Jorophose · · Score: 1

      When you buy an ebook God plants a stalk of corn.

    25. Re:Answer: by oldhack · · Score: 1

      yeah, and try wiping yo nose with a LCD.

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    26. Re:Answer: by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      That's rather funny. No it really, really is. Especially when you consider exactly what it cost to make that e-reader, and all the assorted junk. Again you missed the original point of my post, so why am I not surprised.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    27. Re:Answer: by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

      And newspapers make good garden mulch too.

      For any form of online news service to get my dollar it has to be done very differently:

      A. Editorial content:

      Newspapers focus on noise. Most of the articles as a story develops are irrelevant detail or 'juicy' stuff that panders to our taste for death and sex.

      During the fiasco in what was Yugoslavia, the American media portrayed the Slavic faction as evil oppressors. I happened to catch an episode on CBC's "Ideas" that went into the history of the region. It's a lot more complex than I had thought. I'm training myself to say, "I don't know enough to
      have an opinion." on any issue that I learn from the media.

      To get my buck, electronic papers need to be linked to the back story -- how the hell did we get into this mess.

      Another feature that the media could do in general would be to follow up last year's stories.

      Remember the amount of coverage the Exxon Valdez disaster got while it was happening? (Young pups: Big oil spill off the Alaska coast) Did you see any coverage of the area two years later? What's the impact of Chernobyl? How has Katrina changed policy in FEMA

      I want to be able to tell my epaper that, "I'm not interested in stories about encounters between sports teams, but yes I
      am interested in sports as a cultural element."

      Or that I want any story that takes place within 15 blocks of my house, or in any of the schools my kids are in. Much of the problem with a big city newspaper is that it too much of everything, and it's hard to sort through the cruft.

      I want to be able to tag a story, "Archive this story and it's follow-ups, add these personal tags to the list."

      I want to use my finger tip as a highlighter.

      B. Advertising content:
      I could buy a newspaper just for the ads and the comics.
      If the ads were done right:

      1. The ad is relevant either to me or to the story.
      2. I can train the ad engine by marking one ad per screen as interesting or obnoxious.
      3. The ad explains what is being offered, and who is offering it. No blind phone numbers.
      4. The ad links to either the newspapers web site or the advertisers web site contained within the newspapers frame. (when the paper is online) or to a reduced canned copy. (when offline) The frame would contain elements allowing people to fuss about errors in item 6.
      5. Ads too can be highlighted and saved.
      6. The newspaper requires all ads to have links to third party reviews of the product. Part of the newspaper's ad
      department is to check this aspect for complete and representative content. E.g. Electronics would not only have links to the appropriate section of Electtonics World but also to the right page on epinion.com.
      7. Advertisers were required to be truthful. (Yes there is
      an advertiser's code, but there's a lot of deception still in
      what they neglect to say.)

      I am a subscriber to the Economist online. They still don't have it right. Stories are sound bite sized with no links to back stories, no explanations or too much simplified explanations for events and technology.

      No real world-impact (or even state impact) event can be explained from scratch in 500 words. The world isn't that simple.

      --
      Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
    28. Re:Answer: by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      A reusable item like a Ebook reader uses far fewer resources than a new 1oo-page newspaper printed every day, week-after-week, year-after-year.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    29. Re:Answer: by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Only until next year when the new version comes out, the old version becomes useless and the previous content becomes incompatible. Or you're required to have a paid legacy account.

      Wait for it.

      What? Newspaper is only good for one thing? Who knew...apparently the folks who don't use it for composting either.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    30. Re:Answer: by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      When you cut down a tree in North America for harvesting, you plant two. Funny ain't it?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  2. Standardization by MBCook · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes. Because nothing will boost readership like each newspaper requiring it's own custom $300 reader that doesn't work for any of the other newspapers or books.

    Just make it work on the popular readers out there (at this point that's the Kindle and the Sony devices). Amazon is rumored to release a new Kindle with a bigger screen on Wednesday (they've got a press conference announced).

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:Standardization by FlyingSquidStudios · · Score: 1

      e-Reader: $300 Newspaper: 50 cents. I know which one I'm more likely to buy...

    2. Re:Standardization by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just think like a media executive: stop thinking about how you are going to attract customers, and instead just fantasize about how you are going to lock them in. "It's not proprietary, it's exclusive!"

    3. Re:Standardization by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 1, Insightful

      +1 Insightful, please!

      This move will drive newspapers consumption even further into the ground.

      I always say this, if traditional printed newspapers want to survive the digital age, all they need to do is go 100% ad-sponsored and distribute it to the public for FREE. Much cheaper than developing some proprietary shit hat ony runs on some shit, which you have to spend a shit load of money to get.

    4. Re:Standardization by maxume · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Advertisers are more interested in people who bothered to subscribe or buy something, they figure they will actually look at it.

      That doesn't mean that they won't buy ads in free papers, but they won't pay as much if you don't have some sort of reasonable proof that there is reader interest in your publication.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:Standardization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Neither!

    6. Re:Standardization by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      e-Reader: $300
      Newspaper: 50 cents.

      I know which one I'm more likely to buy...

      According to current trends: neither.

    7. Re:Standardization by eln · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There have been free ad-supported newspapers out there for decades. None of them make the kind of money the subscription-based ones do even today, so why would you think a free model would work better?

      For the reasons noted by the other reply to your post, advertisers will pay a much lower rate for ads in a free paper than in a paper people have to pay for. This means that in a free newspaper you'll have to have a much higher advertisement-to-content ratio, and even then you're not likely to make enough money to sustain any more than a few reporters, which means the quality of your content will suffer.

      The free newspaper market is crowded and low margin, even more so than the subscriber-based newspaper market. Going that route will only accelerate the decline.

    8. Re:Standardization by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My newspaper costs over $360 for a year's subscription.

      If I get it via some kind of branded device, how many free years will they give me? Even one is cost effective for me, assuming I don't care about color pictures or the comics.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    9. Re:Standardization by gwait · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No because nothing will boost readership like a device that tries to charge customers for content to compete with the free internet and its millions of web pages, blogs and users.

      It's a small handful of people who would actually want to carry around another $300 widget that is only used to read books and newspapers and offers far less functionality than a $300 netbook class computer.

      It's not even a done deal that netbook class makes any sense. You can actually read reasonably well on an ipod touch (and by extension any smartphone with a screen at least as good as the iphone/touch), and it fits in a purse or pocket.

      It doesn't make sense for every city to have a company who's job is to distribute national news to the local citizens. Aside from local content, we can already all connect directly to the wire services for free without the newspaper middleman.

      --
      Bavarian Purity Law of Rice Krispie Squares: Rice Krispies, Marshmallows, Butter, Vanilla.
    10. Re:Standardization by xaxa · · Score: 2, Informative

      if traditional printed newspapers want to survive the digital age, all they need to do is go 100% ad-sponsored and distribute it to the public for FREE.

      At least here in London, the quality of the news in the free newspapers is much worse than if you buy one. Not everyone wants to read about who some celebrity slept with last night.

      I've not bought a newspaper for years. The only time I read them is if I find a quality paper left on a train.

      I do have a subscription to New Scientist though, and I read some stories from a quality newspaper's web site most days, but I miss out on things like editorial comment, letters, and local news.

    11. Re:Standardization by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good point. A real subscription to WSJ or NYT is not cheap. But keeping current subscribers isn't really the problem, is it? It would be much better (financially) to get some old subscribers back, or even new subscribers.

      The cost argument is very good, but I don't want 3-4 eReaders, each that only works on one paper. That's just a hassle.

      Then there is the up-front cost. Right now I can buy my local paper only on Sundays, or when I see an interesting story. But very few people will front the $360 unless they are very committed. If they are that committed, they probably already subscribe. But you can't get rid of the paper edition, because how would you attract new readers when the price of starting goes from $1.50 to $360? You have to keep print, so you won't be able to cut costs too much.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    12. Re:Standardization by postbigbang · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The browser makes a crappy newspaper. Various e-readers have a chance, especially if I can mix my local paper with the NYT, the WSJ, SFC, and maybe /. for breakfast. Add in my comics. Put it on my cable bill. I'm sold-- and happy I don't have to haul sacks of dead trees to a recycler.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    13. Re:Standardization by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The subscriber count is one of the big problems of free newspapers, since they can't get accurate numbers. But if you gave away free eReaders, they could report back reader numbers so you could value the ads much better, allowing you to get higher rates since you can prove your readership (instead of surveys saying it's between 1,500 and 30,000), right?

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    14. Re:Standardization by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You'd get a better product hitting their web page with your iPhone. The half-assed pdf-esque digital format papers aren't worth the subscription price.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    15. Re:Standardization by Hatta · · Score: 1

      At least here in Omaha, the two free weeklies are much better reading than the World Herald. Yeah, the focus is on local politics and arts coverage, but still they manage to bring in some syndicated investigative reporting. Between listening to NPR daily for national and world news, and reading a free weekly for local coverage, I stay pretty well informed. I'm not sure I'd lose much if the traditional newspaper died.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    16. Re:Standardization by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The cost argument is very good, but I don't want 3-4 eReaders, each that only works on one paper. That's just a hassle.

      Right. I would definitely think the business model should be to standardize on a single reader (or better yet, a specification that different manufacturers can meet), and then subsidize the cost of the reader, sort of like cell phones. Buy subscriptions to the WSJ and NYT, get a free e-reader.

      Even giving away a $300 device, the publishers will save money in the long term by not having to actually print and deliver things-- given either a long enough timeline or a large enough number of subscriptions per device.

    17. Re:Standardization by infosinger · · Score: 3, Interesting

      New York Times per issue price is going to be over $2.00 and $5-$6 on Sundays. If they can send you the e-issue for let's say $.50 and $2.00 respectively the $300 pays off in a year or less. I think the big reader, however, is going to be over $500. I own a Kindle, and its use for short article periodicals (such as a newpaper) leaves a lot to desire. The key advantage of a newspaper is that you can glance and decide what to read very quickly--this doesn't happen easily on an e-reader. For this reason, I think, that unless newspapers are very good at customizing the content to the reader, the mapping to an e-device will provide an unsatisfactory experience.

    18. Re:Standardization by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Informative

      You don't know what you're talking about. Papers have had digital format editions of the paper product for years (Knight Ridder did theirs corporate-wide in '05). Trying to push those (hilariously undersubscribed) editions using portable readers doesn't cost them anything.

      It's a waste of time though. Bad pictures, no color...Hell, it'll look worse than the paper product.

      And, as for going completely ad supported, it's not going to happen. The village voice can pull it off, and dinky little entertainment papers with 10,000 circ can pull it off, but they do it by having an extremely small permanent staff and practically zero physical plant.

      I ran a weekly with 20,000 circ for a couple of years, and we were quite popular, but our margins were high enough to support more than 5 or 6 permanent staff, and we couldn't afford to pay our stringers more than a pittance. I work as a regional IT guy for two papers now (50,000 and 75,000 circ, respectively)

      Each paper employs 30+ staff who do nothing but gather news, and that is down from the 50+ glory days when we could afford to send someone to every government meeting, and cover all our outlying coverage areas with their own reporters, and crap like that...Crap that makes a good product.

      Without permanent employees, you lose all the benefits of working sources, you lose all the specialized knowledge of the area, and knowledge of the people who will and will not talk on the record...Hell, if you're not a full timer, you probably don't even know who to call.

      And that's just reporters. Add in the ad people, the finance people, and, in your fantasy world, the production people (you won't even be able to pay for the paper edition on your ad revenue, so just give that one up), and you have a business that'll cost about 70% more than you can make with ads alone, even wicked expensive publication-of-record print ads.

      Drop the print product, and your shortfall drops to about 20% (print is about 80% of your costs, but print ads are MUCH more lucrative than online ads, so ditching the print hurts your ad revenue as well). After that, you're cutting meat and bone. You need finance to collect your ad money and do your books, you need ad people to get your ads and deal with your ad customers, and you need journalists and designers to put up the actual product.

      Basically, they need to find a way to make up those costs. Maybe ditching the office space. Maybe centralizing your finance people. Plenty of companies would love to do your ads for you (like Google) but they'll take their pound of flesh, and that's probably more than you'd lose if you did it yourself.

      THAT, is how it can be done. Fucking armchair wanker. I can't believe all the people who think they have the answer.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    19. Re:Standardization by Rolgar · · Score: 1

      I'd really like to see integration between RSS (through Google Reader) and portable devices. Sit at the computer for a few minutes (or eventually have the computer be smart enough to figure out on it's own which things you actually read from your list of feeds), and have the computer push the content you want to the reader. Then you can read at the table while you eat your breakfast the way so you can multitask.

    20. Re:Standardization by Korin43 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or they could all just use a format that can be read on ANY e-reader.

    21. Re:Standardization by paiute · · Score: 1

      Infosinger has a very good point. The Kindle and its descendants will be a lousy way to read a paper in the traditional format. The news industry has to invent a new way to present its data given the new venue that is opening up.

      Kind of like when motion pictures began, the way to use that medium was not to set up a camera and record a stage play.

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    22. Re:Standardization by hedwards · · Score: 2, Funny

      The newspaper industry has been in disarray ever since the Weekly World News went under. Why on earth can't you find that kind of quality journalism anywhere other than Fox?

    23. Re:Standardization by Jerry+Smith · · Score: 1

      +1 Insightful, please! This move will drive newspapers consumption even further into the ground. I always say this, if traditional printed newspapers want to survive the digital age, all they need to do is go 100% ad-sponsored and distribute it to the public for FREE. Much cheaper than developing some proprietary shit hat ony runs on some shit, which you have to spend a shit load of money to get.

      Aaand there go the quality papers, that actually more rely on subscriptions and sales, and HELLO to the umptieth version of The Sun Online and it's worse sisters.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
    24. Re:Standardization by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      I do this now with my iPhone and the google reader software. It's not perfect, but works well with my current devices and a setup I was already using (google reader).

    25. Re:Standardization by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

      Hardhack in Adblock!

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    26. Re:Standardization by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      The iPhone already does what you ask pretty well. I use the google reader software on it to scan and read stories and then star ones that I want to follow up with later on the computer.

    27. Re:Standardization by Ashbory · · Score: 1

      Quote: The browser makes a crappy newspaper.

        Is that because:
        - it can't be crumpled into a ball to start a fire?
        - it is awkward to place in the bottom of a birdcage?
        - fish and chips cannot be wrapped in it?

        If a dedicated hardware reader has advantages that make it easier to read and more portable what is to stop equivalent technology from showing up in laptops?

    28. Re:Standardization by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Maybe with binoculars and an assistant.

      Imagine: sitting out on the patio, coffee cup in hand, and reading an iPhone. No. Not going to do it for me because the UI is so startlingly awful, exacerbated by sunlight, and the need for constant manipulation to get what I want to read. Sorry.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    29. Re:Standardization by nine-times · · Score: 1

      And what format do you suggest? TXT doesn't have formatting, RTF doesn't have very good formating. Even HTML is difficult to get complex formatting that will render reliably. PDF? Ok, that sounds pretty good, but what if PDF lacks some feature that some of the newspapers really want to be able to include?

      My point is, it doesn't really need to be a pre-existing format, but whatever format they use, they should standardize so that ANY reader can use it, or at bare minimum, there is some reader out there that can read all the newspapers.

      And even if they settled on PDF, for example, there might still be issues to hash out. For example, do all readers' screens use the same aspect ratio? The same resolution? The same number of colors? I bet you I could make a PDF that would look great on 1024x768 with 4 shades of gray but would be flat-out illegible at 800x600 monochrome. So that raises the question, do you try to force papers to shoot for the lowest common denominator, or do you let them establish a baseline standards that readers would have to meet in order to be supported?

    30. Re:Standardization by qwerty+shrdlu · · Score: 1

      And of course, the NYT has always been the one paper that can survive without comics.

    31. Re:Standardization by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Really? I've read a ton of books easily with Stanza on my iPhone. Even in the sun at the beach as long as it was not directly reflecting on the screen it was quite readable.

      Google newsreader makes it easy to bring all the stories to the phone that you want to read. I already used google newsreader on my computer so all I had to do was log in.

      In fact, if you want a 'coffee cup in hand' the iPhone should be easier to use because you should be able to go through many stories using only 1 hand. Seems like dealing with something the size and flimsiness of a newspaper would be more of a PITA single handed than scrolling around on the iPhone.

      It's not perfect, but if Apple ever releases an iPhone like netbook (double the size of the current iphone), I think they will have effectively killed the Kindle market.

    32. Re:Standardization by drsquare · · Score: 1

      If your newspaper costs over a dollar a day then you're reading the wrong newspapers. And that $300 is every time your reader breaks or is stolen or you spill your coffee on it.

    33. Re:Standardization by pwfffff · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you mean by sunlight, but I certainly agree with the other two points.

      Regarding the UI: sure, there's an index up front, but to get to the page I want to I have to just guess the area, grab a random page, and then adjust a few pages to the left or right. There's not even a search function if I'm looking for a quote!

      The constant manipulation needed to read is just ridiculous as well. I mean, these fools want you to turn EVERY page? Some books have like over a hundred of those!

      Yeah, screw books. Scrolls are where it's at.

    34. Re:Standardization by Niartov · · Score: 0

      I not sure on the cable bill. Maybe my wireless service and have the reader connect daily to get the days issue.

    35. Re:Standardization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PDF is supposed to have the ability to include vector-based graphics.

      And for bitmap pictures, you include whatever you want and the reader scales it down and dithers it for its own display.

    36. Re:Standardization by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      "The key advantage of a newspaper is that you can glance and decide what to read very quickly"

      Right. I see the text "New York Times" and decide very quickly that it's not worth reading.

    37. Re:Standardization by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I could only really see this working.

      1. If you subscribe to the paper digitally all the content you can get is either via the Web or the Device, so if you happen to not have the device handy you can read it via the more "traditional" Computer method.

      2. Archives available. I should be able to search threw the newspapers entire archive for research.

      3. Reader must work for all papers, I can subscribe to 1 or multiple papers and use 1 reader, I can cancel a subscription and still keep the reader and have it work for other subscriptions.

      4. Price sharing. If I have one news paper they really should give me the device, if I cancel my subscription and get an other one, the new company should pay the other paper the balance of the device, then give me service, If I choose to not have any news service, I pay the balance left for the device. about $5.00 a month of my subscription should go to paying off the balance, or return the device.

      5. Once Balance is paid off I should either be able to get a discount or a new upgrade device.

      6. No content should make old readers unusable. (like how CNN Website has a bunch of news that is Movie only!, and not give us a text version of the story too) Upgrades should enhance our content not replace it.

      7. A way to print coupons/articles.

      8. Bookmark ability, I read it I think it was important and I may want to reference it again. Let me flag it for future use.

      9. Constant updates. If there is breaking news I want it to update, or keep a stock ticker going.

      10. Portable and rugged. A current News paper alone only cost a few cents - a few bucks if you happen to drop it in a puddle or get ripped no big loss. If you happen to break a paper reader then you out a couple hundred bucks and you will not be happy.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    38. Re:Standardization by shmlco · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem with PDF is layout, in that the page wants to be a certain size and shape and if your reader isn't that size and shape you're screwed.

      Further, forcing a layout also tends to ignore one of the ebook's major benefits: resizing and reflowing text and fonts for better readability. Thus with the current Kindle EVERY ebook has the potential to be a "large-print" version.

      No. Cramming dozens of narrow columns onto an ebook reader in hopes of duplicating newsprint is NOT the way to go. They'd be much better off redefining the medium and think more like a magazine. Summaries, TOCs, browsing by topics, "smart" keyword searches so people can always find articles of interest, and more.

      Reinvent the future, don't duplicate the past simply for the sake of doing so.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    39. Re:Standardization by fl!ptop · · Score: 1

      There have been free ad-supported newspapers out there for decades. None of them make the kind of money the subscription-based ones do even today, so why would you think a free model would work better?

      having worked as a carrier for several major newspapers in different cities, i can say that almost all of the subscription costs associated with (non-national) newspapers goes to the carrier. what's most likely happening regarding cost-per-ad for free/subscription is that, w/ subscription based papers, you can give a definitive number of subscribers, but w/ a free paper, all you can point to is the number you print. who knows how many of the "free" papers actually end up, unread, at the bottom of a bird cage.

      --
      When you recognize love in another and realize how precious it is, everything else seems so insignificant.
    40. Re:Standardization by shmlco · · Score: 1

      "I always say this, if traditional printed newspapers want to survive the digital age, all they need to do is go 100% ad-sponsored and distribute it to the public for FREE."

      I'd consider paying for a subscription if by doing so I could dramatically cut or even eliminate the number of ads one usually has to wade through.

      And if it meant that articles weren't spread across 10 pages to increase ad revenue and page views.

      In other words, make it worthwhile...

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    41. Re:Standardization by SkyDude · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is an interesting thread, but all the posters are missing an important point. Whether the newspaper is printed on dead trees, downloaded onto a reader or appears as an apparition in the sky, it's not the delivery of the news that's the problem.

      The newspapers are failing because they no longer generate the income from advertisements from auto dealers, real estate brokers and large retailers that have pulled back on their advertising due to the US economy sucking wind. In many papers, these categories generated more than two-thirds of their income. Classified ads have moved to Craigslist and have taken another income source away.

      It would be nice if a tech solution could cure the problem, but it's just not that simple.

      --
      == First cross river, then insult alligator.
    42. Re:Standardization by __aarzwb9394 · · Score: 1

      Good point, but not quite as much of a disaster as you might think. At least in Britain (and Japan actually), people are very loyal to one newspaper. If you buy the Telegraph you don't buy the Mirror etc. etc. It does save you throwing out all those old papers too. Biggest problem is that you have to front all the money.

    43. Re:Standardization by meyekul · · Score: 1

      I didn't RTFA, but I'm not sure that they plan on charging you for the devices. I've heard some media professionals discussing this topic before, and its really a win-win situation. The average newspaper costs WAY more to print than the news stand price, and they make even less money from subscribers. They make their money from the advertising dollars, so they basically pay you to read their paper. So, its in their best interest to give you the Kindle or whatever included with your normal subscription. Kind of like cable/satellite companies that give you a free DVR when you sign up for a year.

      What's the big deal about 3-4 Kindles vs. 3-4 regular newspapers? Sure I guess you can roll up/fold up your newspaper, but at least you're not generating nearly as much waste paper with a reusable device.

    44. Re:Standardization by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Rotten LCDs. Small real estate (geometry). Poor page management and inconsistent application deployment. Rotten security. Incapacity to assert style. Horrible kerning. Poor portability of devices; battery life is often miserable. Can't be read in sunlight. Fragile.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    45. Re:Standardization by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      High ambient light makes them difficult to read. Oh, and that insane $2400 contract you signed to get your iPhone has nothing to do with it.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    46. Re:Standardization by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      Fucking armchair wanker. I can't believe all the people who think they have the answer.

      Agreed. Someone who wanks armchairs is a good source of advice.

    47. Re:Standardization by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Give me an auto-adjusting, very strong LCD, lightweight, big format so that I can visually read and scroll pages, all with a long battery life and I might reconsider-- if I can get RSS feeds downloaded, and other news stuff. Books would be fine as well, as long as they're not DRM'd to death. A little background music might be nice, too. And if it can clean the pool, so much the better.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    48. Re:Standardization by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      There's the next problem: you get once source, your provider. I like my paper delivered, crappy as its content can be. Oh-- I can go down to the corner store and buy one, or ten of them if I want. I'm sure there's an analog to this in digital fabrications beyond the DRM used today via some kind of linking. But I want to eat my cereal, and read a full page of comics... or the obituaries, or whatever it is. Browsers can't do that today without unusual modifications for huge screen geometries, and I want huge screen geometries that can adjust to what I'm using with real kerning and not this half-space crap. I want seriffed fonts, not eye-burning crap that every browser likes to deliver by default.

      The iPhone, Android, Pre, whatever, will NOT be an acceptable reader. The Kindle ][ barely gets there, and its graphics quality and high ambient light readability are horrible. The reflection of the screen is enough to rot my rods and cones out of my head.

      Don't settle for crappy mobile phones as a reading device. Teeny weeny fingers and teeny weeny displays aren't an adaptation, rather they're confinement in some telco MBA's jail and fantasy. Resist.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    49. Re:Standardization by dokebi · · Score: 1

      I want to pay for online news, but not on a Monthly Basis. The first news company to figure that out gets my vote.

      Instead of micro-payments (which has ridiculous overhead), I wish they had a pre-paid plan. I deposit $25. Whenever I view an article from their paper, they deduct 50 cents, good for 24 HOURS. Every other article I read that day, I've paid for. If I don't read the paper that day, I don't pay anything. This way, I get to read multiple papers without subscribing to each one, yet my regular paper gets paid the same amount. Does this seem reasonable? Any news paper folks here want to respond?

      --
      In Soviet Russia, articles before post read *you*!
    50. Re:Standardization by AlXtreme · · Score: 1

      So that raises the question, do you try to force papers to shoot for the lowest common denominator, or do you let them establish a baseline standards that readers would have to meet in order to be supported?

      Neither. You'd specify a generic webservice interface with which each reader can specify which features it supports, and the 'newspaper' server would send it a PDF that comes closest.

      No fuss with upgrading to a new ereader and you get the best version your reader can handle. The only problem is requiring software om the ereader client (which you would need anyway for this to work) and getting all the newspapers to agree on a single interface (nobody said it would be easy).

      I could see this work technically. From a business perspective though, most people will either stick with getting their news free from the web or via deadtree newspaper. It would have to be a pretty good brain-dead ereader, bundled together with a deadtree subscription if this were to get anywhere.

      --
      This sig is intentionally left blank
    51. Re:Standardization by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      High ambient light makes them difficult to read. Oh, and that insane $2400 contract you signed to get your iPhone has nothing to do with it.

      Did you read my comment? I've read for hours at the beach in the sun. I'm not sure if the ambient light could get any brighter than at a sunny beach. Like I said, it's not perfect, but was readable. I've had more trouble with paper books before at the beach because the white paper can reflect quite a bit of light. Each person is different thought.

      If cost is an issue, get a Touch then. And who pays $100/month for their iPhone anymore? Look up fan codes and use one of them (pretty easy to find a -15%), or if you're already an ATT customer just add data and use your grandfathered plan. I have one friend only paying $60/month for his iPhone plan.

    52. Re:Standardization by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Neither. You'd specify a generic webservice interface with which each reader can specify which features it supports, and the 'newspaper' server would send it a PDF that comes closest.

      Sure, that'd be one way to attack the problem. Still, my larger point was that you'll want to standardize things across newspapers. Getting everyone to agree to an interface for providing the appropriate PDF from various versions (which in itself implies the newspapers will be generating various standard PDF versions according to some defined spec) would be the sort of standardization I'm talking about.

    53. Re:Standardization by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Part of the problem with that is that people like to control layout, and some kinds of information almost demand a particular presentation. So eventually, you're going to want something more than RTF, probably including something where pictures can be dropped in easily.

      That leaves HTML as an obvious option, but then you're still going to want to standardize on a particular version of HTML and CSS, if not a particular rendering engine with particular options enabled to allow consistent rendering. Do you want to make it simplified to avoid battery drain? No javascript support, maybe?

      I'm really not trying to advocate a particular choice. I'm just trying to point out that these newspapers need to get into a room with tech people and hash out a standard that provides all the functionality they're going to want. Once they have that, they can essentially publish a spec for what constitutes a "supported reader".

    54. Re:Standardization by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Price sharing. If I have one news paper they really should give me the device, if I cancel my subscription and get an other one, the new company should pay the other paper the balance of the device, then give me service, If I choose to not have any news service, I pay the balance left for the device. about $5.00 a month of my subscription should go to paying off the balance, or return the device.

      Simplified: free reader with a two-year subscription, early cancellation fees applicable. It worked for the phone companies.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    55. Re:Standardization by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Well, from a pure revenue stream POV, they'd be better off charging a lot less, but charging monthly...It's a huge pain to have such a variable revenue source, and since ad revenue is already crazy erratic...It'd be hard to do any sort of budget.

      My thought has always been to charge a fee for viewing anything more than the first few paragraphs for any news that's newer than 7 days, and making all the news older than 7 days available to everyone free of charge.

      The problem is always about how to monetize it. Username and password is as good as it gets now, but as soon as some poor grandpa's account gets swiped and posted on "Bug Me Not" or similar, then you've got a buncha freeloaders and a pissed off customer.

      I don't know. it's going to be interesting to see.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    56. Re:Standardization by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      With all due respect, I'd rather eat glass than become an AT&T customer ever again.

      A good friend of mine has an iPhone 3. It has a nice and bright display, admittedly. Reducing the font size to capture more than a few paragraphs is unwieldy. Other criticisms regarding having to constantly scroll, and the comparatively tiny size of the display, make it unusable as a reader. There's an old expression that each new hammer considers everything a nail. Lots of applications are suited to the geometry of iPhones and other mobiles that I've seen. An adequate reader just isn't it in my estimation. Yours apparently varies.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    57. Re:Standardization by Rue+C+Koegel · · Score: 1

      at 50 cents a day, if you read a paper every day, you could pay for the e-reader in two years. however, usually sunday papers are more expensive, so you may be able to pay for the e-reader sooner.

      and if you just buy sunday papers, it would probably take at least 3 years to pay the same amount as the e-reader.

      however, if the newspapers made their materials available for download/e-mail to other e-readers, and made their own e-readers capable of opening other txt/pdf type files, then they would undoubtedly find that more people were willing to pay the lower cost for their more simple e-readers... rather than the more expensive cost for the kindle and sony readers which have mp3 players and other possibly unnecessary accessories built in.

      having cheaper e-readers would provide a middle ground for those of us not yet willing to pay for the kindle or sony reader.

      - i'm still waiting for the day, where like in star trek, everybody has a kindle like device that can provide reading materials (books and news papers), take memos, retrieve endless amounts of data wirelessly (wikipedia, wikitionary...), do complex mathematical calculations, play simple puzzle games, provide for txt based communication (at least), and automatically update schedules for registered classes at college (and the likes), as well as provide emergency information in the case of a hurricane or whatever... et cetera.

      the day is coming when all these things and more will be possible; and to me these uses alone are so awesome that investing in the technology now to help it grow is wholly worthwhile.

      if only it was an actual cell phone too, and had two screens, one for color/video that could be used when desired and then the e-ink screen for primary use to assure long battery life.

      heck with todays tech one could switch from one side to the other just by turning it over (when unlocked), and most importantly the touch interface could remain active on the opposite side, so you could select things without your fingers being in the way of the screen.

      --
      DON'T CAPITALIZE! CO-OPERATE! AND FREE EVERYTHING!
    58. Re:Standardization by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      With all due respect, I'd rather eat glass than become an AT&T customer ever again.

      I'm pretty sure you can find old customers from any provider saying the same thing ;-)

      I agree it has it's shortcomings with the primary one being the size of the text. Size of the device is also one of the its big advantages though. Personally I don't want to carry another device as a dedicated reader and I'm not sure I want a larger all in one phone type device either.

      I was skeptical when Stanza came out, but it's very customizable and you turn pages with a simple tap on the screen. I read many more books now because I always have all of my books with me. I no longer have to think about grabbing a book as I leave the house.

    59. Re:Standardization by Chees0rz · · Score: 1

      Probably not the first to suggest this but why doesn't somebody develop an API for publishing to devices like the Kindle?
      Then these newspapers can sell digital subscriptions and the device can pull articles AND ads out of the interwebs (all provided by the hosting paper)...

      Of course... they probably wouldn't include this in your dead tree subscription...

    60. Re:Standardization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Advertisers are more interested in people who bothered to subscribe or buy something, they figure they will actually look at it.

      1. Advertisers do not own newspapers, people who SELL newspaper space to advertisers own newspapers.
      2. People who own newspapers couldn't give one dried mouse sh*t if anyone EVER read their paper as long as they could convince advertising buyers that buying space in a newspaper will sell widgets. That means ALL advertising buyers including classified buyers.
      3. Ad buyers have traditionally been lied to by paper owners about circulation numbers. The number of PAYING subscribers is only one number. The estimated number of readers in a given area is MUCH LARGER based on the spread (papers left around in restaurants/buses/lobbies/etc for days). These are the numbers the owners use and they are lies.
      4. No serious ad buyer would ever put an ad in one of these little machines because there is no spread, therefore this a not a real idea.
      5. Please think before you post.

    61. Re:Standardization by kwerle · · Score: 1

      What you're doing amounts to making excuses.

      HTML is eating newspapers lunch, today. It seems to be good enough for the consumers.

      What's more, every single one of the consumers they've lost to HTML already has a reader that will display HTML. At least one.

      I think the question of "what format is suitable" has been answered repeatedly: HTML is fine. PDF is OK. RTF is probably OK.

      The question that has not been answered is:
      Will newpaper companies give consumers what they want in a format that is acceptable?

      It's looking a lot like the answer is no.

    62. Re:Standardization by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > if traditional printed newspapers want to survive the digital age, all they need to do is go 100% ad-sponsored and distribute it to the public for FREE

      That is one alternative. There is also another:

      Motocycle Consumer News has 0% ads -- it is supported 100% by customers. The s/n ratio is superb. Don't see why the same couldn't work for newspapers as well.

    63. Re:Standardization by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      e-Reader: $300 Newspaper: 50 cents. I know which one I'm more likely to buy...

      What's really great is this: personal computer with generic text-reading software (e.g. web browsers, less, etc): costs even more, and I'm more likely to buy it.

      Proprietary dedicated reader for some obscure file format? Fuck that. I won't even buy a blu-ray drive until I know mplayer can deal with it (i.e. the DRM is permanently defeated).

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    64. Re:Standardization by el+americano · · Score: 1

      And that's not even considering that the eReader solution is more likely to cost:

      $300 for the reader
      still 50 cents for each newspaper addition.

      I always expected on-demand cable movies to cost less than movie store rentals, since they don't have to spend money on the media and don't maintain a retail store, but I'm still waiting. It turns out that the cost of the content still has to be covered, and if newspapers still provide a print edition to some people, then they probably won't save any publishing costs at all.

      The only sell here is convenience. Make it wireless. Make it reliable.

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    65. Re:Standardization by nine-times · · Score: 1

      I think the question of "what format is suitable" has been answered repeatedly: HTML is fine. PDF is OK. RTF is probably OK.

      Each of those formats may do well enough, but none of them are perfect or without problems. Only PDF really allows for sufficient layout control (depending, of course, on your view of "sufficient"), and yet at the same time it doesn't really allow for the content to be maximized on the fly for different sized/shaped displays. Even HTML, which you might argue is the best option, isn't perfect. It's being revised for newer browsers because of various problems.

      But regardless, I'm not making excuses. I'm not saying that they can't just pick one of these formats and get to work. I'm saying that if you want to have a single device that can read all the various newspapers with uniform functionality, they need to get together and decide how they're going to do it. It will work best if they standardize.

      If it's all HTML, that's fine. They'll probably want to set guidelines for styling. Do you set font size by a set number of px or em? Do you want to set anything as fixed width, or should it all be liquid? What I'm trying to get at is that the web is great, but it's also a mess. If you want to productize newspapers as a subscription service, you probably want to standardize to make the experience as clean as possible.

    66. Re:Standardization by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      Given that HTML is already used by all newspapers to present their information, and is suitable for display on most ereaders, it's the obvious choice. If a reader doesn't support HTML properly, it will soon, or no one would buy it. There are even subscription methods based on it (RSS) - all the tech is already in place. It really isn't a technical problem - the problem is that they want a system for charging small amounts to lots of users so that they can remain in business.

      That doesn't depend on hardware, it depends on software, and what the newspapers would be doing if they were smart is setting up a system like iTunes for subscribing to papers. I imagine Apple or some software company will beat them to it. Perhaps they'll all just have to transition to an advertising model on the internet and hope that can sustain them.

    67. Re:Standardization by pileated · · Score: 1

      Worse than that there are too many people at newspapers wasting time, energy and hope on tech solutions. They most likely will not work because: 1, they don't address the problem of greatly declining PRINT(read costly enough to support a reporting staff) advertising; and 2, some loyal readers, myself included, hate to read the news digitally. I have to say I've never tried reading from an apparition in the sky, though.............

      Obviously newspapers are in real trouble and they have to consider all solutions. My fear is that they'll put too much time, energy and hope with something this and then be in even sadder shape when they realize it wasn't the answer. I wish I knew the answer.

      As a sidelight it's interesting that both Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger said the loss of newspapers would be a tragedy while at the same time saying that there is no way in the world they would invest additional money in them.

    68. Re:Standardization by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      at 50 cents a day, if you read a paper every day, you could pay for the e-reader in two years. however, usually sunday papers are more expensive, so you may be able to pay for the e-reader sooner.
       
      I just paid for my subscription to the local daily paper the other day. It cost $244.44 (Canadian) for one year's subscription.
       
      I actually debated for a while about whether I would renew it this year; I've had the paper delivered to my door everywhere I've lived for the past 30 years or more.
       
      I ultimately decided to renew it mostly because I'm in the habit of reading the paper at a certain time of day, and I'm pretty much a creature of fixed habits.
       
      I'll probably have the same debate with myself again at this time next year, though. There really is getting to be less and less in the paper generally - it's getting thinner - and even less content than ever is something that I haven't already read online prior to the delivery of the paper.
       
      If the paper survives another year, that is. It's owned by a company that has apparently been getting some kind of extensions on their loans to avoid bankruptcy. (I've read articles about that online, in fact.)

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    69. Re:Standardization by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      I don't want 3-4 eReaders, each that only works on one paper. That's just a hassle.
       
      And it's one more thing to break/lose/whatever. If I buy a paper and accidentally drop it in a puddle or leave it on a bench, or if it blows away in the wind, it's not a big deal. I would be a lot happier with a paper paper on a bus, or to read while waiting at the barber shop.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    70. Re:Standardization by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      What's the big deal about 3-4 Kindles vs. 3-4 regular newspapers?
       
      Loss and breakage. If I leave today's newspaper laying around and someone takes it or it blows away in the wind, I'm not out much.
       
      Would you rather take your $300 e-device on the bus with you, or a $1.50 newspaper?
       
      What if it's raining?

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    71. Re:Standardization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And continuing to print drivel also brings those readers in like nobody's business, too!

    72. Re:Standardization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who writes these articles? The controlled media is losing viewers because they are clearly not on our side! We, the majority, are fed up of being spoonfed government sponsored bullshit every day, by these evil bastards, who tell us that 'diversity is our strength', and that we are all evil 'racists' for not wanting to see our countries INVADED by millions of hate filled, parasitic third worlders.

    73. Re:Standardization by Eil · · Score: 1

      Yes. Because nothing will boost readership like each newspaper requiring it's own custom $300 reader that doesn't work for any of the other newspapers or books.

      I'm surprised nobody has rebutted that yet with this: Printing The NYT Costs Twice As Much As Sending Every Subscriber A Free Kindle

      Also, it's entirely possible (perhaps even likely) that one day, everyone will own a device capable of comfortably and conveniently reading e-books. Maybe it'll have an e-ink display, maybe it'll be some crazy mashup between a netbook and a cell phone, but it'll probably happen. As today's e-book readers become more mainstream, I think we'll start to see some competition happen. Eventually, manufacturers will market their products not just on how many books you can buy but how many different formats the reader can open. Publishers wishing to reach the largest audience will release their books in open formats to reach the largest user base possible.

      I mean, assuming they don't follow in the footsteps of the RIAA and MPAA and just start suing their customers because their old business model of pushing physical products went away.

    74. Re:Standardization by MBCook · · Score: 1

      I always preferred The Chronicle.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    75. Re:Standardization by meyekul · · Score: 1

      They could be waterproofed, at least enough to keep out a few raindrops here and there. Like the fancy little pad that the UPS guy carries. As far as losing/breaking it, treat that the same way as cell phones; offer insurance options and a reasonable replacement plan and there should be no big issues. If I know I've got a long ride and I don't have a book or magazine that I'm interested in at the moment, I'll bring my laptop just to have something to read. I'd sure rather take a $300 reader on the bus than my laptop.

      I know there are concerns about such a major transition, but its pretty much sink or swim time for printed media, so they had better start swimming in one way or another.

    76. Re:Standardization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's all HTML, that's fine. They'll probably want to set guidelines for styling. Do you set font size by a set number of px or em?

      Oh, please let it be em. px aren't something that developers should even know about. px-fonts have been holding back every OS UI for a decade or two, and it's the same problem with ebook readers.

      I don't know what asshole got it in his head that everyone who buys a high-resolution display wants to fit more text on it and not just the same amount of sharper text.

    77. Re:Standardization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your vaunted vectors are great, but e-paper is a raster display. Vector graphics scale up well. Down.. not so great. With a good algorithm, no better than bitmaps, in fact.

    78. Re:Standardization by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      I'll probably have the same debate with myself again at this time next year, though. There really is getting to be less and less in the paper generally - it's getting thinner - and even less content than ever is something that I haven't already read online prior to the delivery of the paper.

      Exactly. I've had that debate with myself for about the past five years. This was the year the newspaper lost.

      Manufactured swine-flu hysteria was what pushed me over the edge, FWIW, but the paper's one-sided editorial slant was another factor. If someone wants a masturbatory echo chamber for their views, they can visit Free Republic or DailyKos for free. And as you point out, it's rare to read anything in the morning papers that you didn't see online the night before.

    79. Re:Standardization by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      Reducing the font size to capture more than a few paragraphs is unwieldy.

      ROFL. Compared to what other phone?!

      As soon as Apple comes to their senses and scales the iPhone up in size by a factor of 2x in both dimensions, it's all over for everybody else.

    80. Re:Standardization by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Ah.

      You grasp the concept, but you use the phrase 'compared to what other phone'. You're the exact target the MBAs are looking for. They want you to believe that your phone is an HDTV, a reader, a GPS, ......

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    81. Re:Standardization by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      I guess what I'm saying is, the only places where the iPhone comes up short are battery life and the fact that it's hardwired to AT&T. (The Kindle only wishes it had the iPhone's pinch-to-zoom UI.)

      If Apple were to scale the platform up to a larger form factor -- something comparable to the size of the next-gen Kindle -- and drop the phone functionality, they'd have a fairly revolutionary tablet PC on their hands. They could incorporate larger batteries and lose their contractual ties to AT&T, since the platform would no longer technically be a phone.

      I will probably buy one of the new Kindles as a newspaper-substitute, but I don't expect to grow very attached to it, and I doubt it'll see much use if the rumors about an iPhone-style tablet come to pass. Yes, e-ink is still preferable for serious reading, but I'm mostly looking for a better news-surfing platform, and the iPhone is just plain right for that application.

    82. Re:Standardization by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      You're the exact target the MBAs are looking for. They want you to believe that your phone is an HDTV, a reader, a GPS, ......

      You don't need to be an MBA to realize that people are looking to reduce, not add, to the number of devices they carry around. A cell phone is a given now. Smart phones removed the need for a cell phone and a PDA. Cell phone and music player convergence removed the need for a separate music player. For quick pictures you no longer need to bring a separate camera either. Why are people going to want to carry a separate device just to read news feeds and books when they already have a perfectly capable device in their pocket?

      People do not want a separate reader device. Look at the success of Stanza on the iphone even with the iPhones short comings of a smallish screen. If/When Apple does release a double sized iPhone\iTouch like device the Kindle (and other reader-only devices) will die before they ever took off.

    83. Re:Standardization by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Yes, and we're human and used to not having to use magnifying glasses to read 2pt text. Face it: it's not an HDTV. I carry around a few things now. I'm used to schlepping gear. Others won't do it. Hell, there are still lots of people that don't use cell/mobiles altogether.

      I can break out my notebook and get whatever I want, including free VoIP just about anywhere these days in the US (within reason, of course). The problem is that with a new hammer, everything looks like a nail. The cell phone isn't a nail, and the iPhone makes a crappy reader. Those that might stoop to use it in such a way are robbing others of better and more convenient form factors.

      You're imposing your own standards, and foolishly, when you say that people don't want a separate reader device. I certainly do. You don't, so you exclude everyone by your statement. That's pretty silly. I want to prop up a reader on my patio and read the paper in the morning while I eat my bagel or yogurt or whatever.

      A reader is tougher to lose (albeit easier to crack, probably). Battery life can be longer because there's more geometry to the device. A phone, prior a device held to one's ear, has been modded to the point of deception. Certainly there will be people that sacrifice the convenience of the form factor for its poor quality reproduction of media and its handiness, but it's a sacrifice nonetheless. We can and should do better.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    84. Re:Standardization by shmlco · · Score: 1

      And that was my point: In this case "layout" doesn't make sense when the screen can be anywhere from an iPhone to a 30" computer LCD.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    85. Re:Standardization by kwerle · · Score: 1

      /. moved where replies are listed, so I just noticed this.

      If it's all HTML, that's fine. They'll probably want to set guidelines for styling.

      I'm saying that HTML is already it. There are no universal guidelines (other than HTML), and that's fine. Every paper (worth mentioning) already posts content to the web, so they have already agreed to it. Every computer can already render it.

      All that really remains is for each of the papers to realize this, and to include a downloadable copy and a google-quality indexer of that paper and of all papers (probably just for online viewing).

    86. Re:Standardization by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Every computer can already render it.

      Sure, whatever. The question is, will it look good on a given device. Without knowing the display capabilities of the device and the rendering capabilities of the browser running on the device, there's no way of knowing.

      So if they want to sell subscriptions to Kindle (or something like it), they should probably standardize on a stricter standard than normal HTML.

  3. Innovation only under pressure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is why recessions aren't always bad. Some of these old companies will only do something novel when they absolutely have to. Otherwise, it's business as usual.

    1. Re:Innovation only under pressure by Kadagan+AU · · Score: 1

      Why don't they try improving their content? That might get more readers. If the NY Times tried to be lest leftist and biased, maybe their readership wouldn't be dropping like flies. Just a thought. Innovation's cool too.

      --
      This space for rent, inquire within.
    2. Re:Innovation only under pressure by SkyDude · · Score: 1

      For the NY Times (and others like it) to "improve" their content, Pinch Sulzberger would have to get run over by a bus and have 2/3 of the existing staff be fired. Unfortunately, a change in the politics of the American print media wouldn't save it now, as the failure to change with the times has done permanent damage.

      --
      == First cross river, then insult alligator.
  4. For $300, no thanks by N8F8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Give me a reader for $80 and maybe. $300? Screw that.

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
    1. Re:For $300, no thanks by StreetStealth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Better yet, a $300 reader for the NYT, a $250 reader for the local paper, a $450 reader for Condé Nast publications, a $200 reader put out by a consortium of alternative weeklies...

      Any publisher-proprietary reader over $99, probably even $49, will die. And the balance sheets showing scores of unsold, low-margin/high-cost devices won't be a pretty sight, either.

      --
      Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
    2. Re:For $300, no thanks by FudRucker · · Score: 1

      buy enough of those over-priced readers and you can make a Beowulf cluster of them, too bad they wont do anything other than display text & graphics

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    3. Re:For $300, no thanks by Eil · · Score: 1

      I would gladly pay $300 for a device that was open (read: hackable) and usable for more than just reading e-books. I know the popular readers are all based on Linux, but everything I've read about them indicates that the manufacturers are not designing or marketing them as what they are: general computing devices with somewhat limited screens. It should be possible to do anything on them that you'd do on a tablet computer (except of course video or color graphics).

      It's what I call the iPhone Syndrome: Create an astonishingly capable device and then lock everyone out of it for fear that someone might conceivably do something that you didn't explicitly give them permission to do. It's like DRM for innovation.

  5. Size of a piece of paper? No thanks by I.M.O.G. · · Score: 3, Insightful

    with screens roughly the size of a standard sheet of paper to present much of the editorial and advertising content of traditional periodicals in generally the same format as they appear in print.

    Outside of those carrying briefcases or backpacks, who wants to carry around a papersized piece of equipment to read old-fashioned news. Shouldn't they be focusing on a cheaper kindle-like device, since that has shown some acceptance in the marketplace?

    Theres a lot to be said for a newspaper which can be rolled up or folded to take with you. Size is important for this sort of media.

    1. Re:Size of a piece of paper? No thanks by MBCook · · Score: 1

      I'd think 8.5"x11" would be pretty good, as long as the device was about that size (not +2" on each side, keyboard, etc).

      Of course, this is the preverbal deck chairs on the Titanic. The problem with newspapers isn't the paper. Sure paper is expensive (compared to digital bits), and big and a bit of a hassle compared to a theoretical eBook (ignore preference). But changing the medium won't work.

      The content is already out there. It's on the web. I can get new news faster. Half the stuff in many papers comes straight off the AP wire anyway. Making newspapers more convenient won't work, they've already done that with their websites.

      It's the business model that needs rethinking. Digital readers may certainly help, but they alone will do nothing to fix the problems.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    2. Re:Size of a piece of paper? No thanks by garcia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Shouldn't they be focusing on a cheaper kindle-like device, since that has shown some acceptance in the marketplace?

      They should be concentrating on delivering the news to people in the format that they want it delivered in. People are already long beyond the point where someone else telling us how to get our information is going to work. I want my news via RSS that I can read on my phone and any multitude of other machines I'm using throughout the day. I do NOT want to purchase ANOTHER device to read news from one source.

      The newspaper industry continues to amaze me. When they are failing, and failing hard, instead of finding a way to work within the boundaries of what people want and are already utilizing, these companies are trying to get people to go back to reading what is basically the same thing that put them out of business in the first place.

    3. Re:Size of a piece of paper? No thanks by eeek77 · · Score: 1

      I didn't want to go public with this, but I've already got a device like this. I call it a "MONITOR." Hooks right up to my computer. Pretty neat stuff.

      I think more portable versions exist out there, too.

      Seriously, though. I'm not quite sure this can be considered innovation. And innovation is what the newspapers need to stay alive. The idea sounds like they re-folded the same piece of paper in hopes of something brand new.

  6. Thinking about things the wrong way by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The newspapers are doomed. Their focus is to be able to get the same revenue for ads with a bigger device. They completely miss the point. They think that "giving away content" on the internet was their biggest mistake.

    In reality, their biggest mistake was not containing costs 10 years ago (slowly) to reflect the structural shift of information to a different medium.

    I used to have a subscription to the Wall Street Journal, which gave me both dead-tree and online information. While the content was ok at first, when NewsCorp destroyed the editorial content it was no longer worth the effort. Only about 10% of the dead-tree editions would be read because the format was unwieldy at the desk.

    They need to bring costs in-line and generate quality content at the same time. (No, I didn't say it was easy.) There isn't a top-line solution that will make them viable long-term. Look no farther than ad rates to understand the limited value that the papers can generate for most of their advertisers.

    1. Re:Thinking about things the wrong way by value_added · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Look no farther than ad rates to understand the limited value that the papers can generate for most of their advertisers.

      Maybe you missed this part

      Publishers could possibly use these new mobile reading devices to hit the reset button and return in some form to their original business model: selling subscriptions, and supporting their articles with ads.

      A subscription-based model on custom displays with the ad-supported web edition available for the masses sounds like a win-win situation, no?

    2. Re:Thinking about things the wrong way by vivek7006 · · Score: 4, Informative

      WSJ gives free access to premium content if you are being redirected from google, facebook, digg etc. Here is a dirty little secret. The entire content on WSJ is available to you for free, if you can trick WSJ into believing that you have been directed to their webpage via digg.com!

      Step1) Use firefox
      Step2) Install refspoof http://refspoof.mozdev.org/
      Step3) Install greasemonkey https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748
      Step4) Install this script in greasemonkey http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/42134
      Step5) Profit!!

    3. Re:Thinking about things the wrong way by vlm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In reality, their biggest mistake was not containing costs 10 years ago (slowly) to reflect the structural shift of information to a different medium

      No, their biggest mistake was not focusing on what their ink on paper product can do that new mediums like the internet can not do. Cars do not have "car-type buggy whips". The whip manufacturers have moved on to entirely new fields of endeavor mostly not involving transportation. Ink on paper newspapers have to do the same.

      They have lost the "textual news/agitprop" business by being obsolete. OK fine. Now what can you do with ink on paper that a computer cannot do.

      The average inet user supposedly has a 14 inch monitor running 800x600 or whatever. On the other hand a newspaper can print out freaking huge graphics if they want. Take advantage of that.

      1) Show the news in graphical form on a map. I'd like a map of all "major" road construction projects each day. Oh, and gimme a big ole map with all police/fire/ambulance activity marked and maybe a short comment. And I'd like maps for activities going on over the next couple days, you know, like festival here, museum thing here, etc. Maybe mix and match so you get a couple pages of maps, one for each day yesterday, today, and one for each day going a couple days in the future.

      2) Do some news in big ole timelines. Not a simplistic lame graph, but something big and cool.

      3) Giant pages of tabular data. Gimme a TV-guide grid style listing of all local movie theaters and what they're showing at each time. Take advantage of those huge pages!

      4) Whatever you do, don't screw up the giant comics pages and giant TV schedule grids. Err, thats exactly what they're doing, so cut it out.

      5) A page needs to be devoted to kids coloring projects, etc.

      6) Stop distributing text products and go graphical. Any website can provide a textual astrology report. But only a newspaper can provide a daily giant 1 foot on a side astrological reading thingy. Yes I know astrology is for fools, but the point remains that some data needs to go graphical. Years ago, last time I read a paper, I recall seeing a regular column of bridge tournament puzzle things that was done entirely in text... Geeze guys go graphical.

      7) Focus on stuff that can't be done online very conveniently, like crosswords, wordsearchs, etc. Anything that involves scribbling on the paper (as opposed to scribbling on the monitor)

      8) get some "only in physical paper" features. Don't care what it is, pictures of attractive people, dilbert cartoons, oragami patterns, paper airplane patterns, silly picture frames, funny flowcharts, or whatever, but you gotta orient it around encouraging the readers to cut it out of the paper, then stick it on the cube wall or do something with the cutout. Can't do that online (well, yeah you can print out, but this thing is already printed out...) You may need better paper and printing than cruddy old newsprint.

      Another thing they could do is find bloggy info and push the limits of fair use by quoting them. The only useful information is on blogs now... the problem is its buried under junk. Find the good stuff and highlight it in the paper.

      Finally, if there is one special industrial connection that newspapers have, its the book publishing industry. So, in each daily paper, publish 5 minutes worth of reading of some hot new novel. Your options are subscribe to the paper to read the whole thing 5 minutes at a time, or cough up the bucks at Amazon to read it all today. I think this will burn up alot of paper space, but if it brings in the readers... Do fiction and nonfiction. I'd think an appropriate nonfiction would be Galbraith's 1929 Great Depression, or for a paper with real guts, how about "the creature from jekyll island"

      Instead of doing something special or unique with their media, they are trying to do the same old thing but cheaper... that isn't going to work in the long run.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Thinking about things the wrong way by TheLink · · Score: 1

      I usually don't bother with sites that want me to jump through hoops to read their content. If they went bust I wouldn't care. There are usually easier alternatives.

      And here's their problem - buying a $300 reader with DRM and lock-in is yet more hoop jumping. Installing all that script/plugin crap is hoop jumping too.

      Is the WSJ really worth it? Evidence? e.g. show me (or provide a summary) one article from them in the past 6 months that's a "must read".

      If they went bust I probably wouldn't miss them.

      In contrast I might miss the Economist (sure they've their biases, but they do provide some insight and even decent tech and science articles from time to time).

      Lastly, I don't see why newspapers should cost so much in the USA. Over here they're sold for about USD0.34 at the newstands, contain a fair number of sheets and articles. And at least one of them is making money.

      --
    5. Re:Thinking about things the wrong way by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      The other part of the problem (and this is for internet TV too) is that the internet has taken away a lot of the 'voodoo' math for advertising rates. A newspaper can say that X people read their paper so lets assume that some made up % of X read your ad. On the internet you know EXACTLY how many people saw your ad, and EXACTLY how many thought enough of it to click the ad. This is the same for TV shown over the internet versus the traditional means.

      Print and TV advertising (rates, expectations, etc...) are giant pieces of the puzzle that also need to change.

    6. Re:Thinking about things the wrong way by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

      In reality, their biggest mistake was not containing costs 10 years ago (slowly) to reflect the structural shift of information to a different medium.

      I would argue that the biggest mistake of newspapers was the opposite, its not that they did too little to contain costs but that they did too much (or, at least, too much of the wrong things), and thereby eliminated much of their value at the time where they had a whole host of new competition. Newspapers made themselves irrelevant through cut backs in the newsroom that have crippled reporting (especially, in many cases, local reporting in papers that merged into bigger and bigger conglomerates) and turned the papers into conduits for press releases and wire reports, functions for which there are easy cheap substitutes.

    7. Re:Thinking about things the wrong way by Eil · · Score: 1

      Huh. Cool, but I've heard that the WSJ (or at least the web version, not sure about print) was extremely watered down after Murdoch took over and isn't any better than any other business news site now.

    8. Re:Thinking about things the wrong way by winwar · · Score: 1

      "In reality, their biggest mistake was not containing costs 10 years ago (slowly) to reflect the structural shift of information to a different medium."

      Yep. Instead they were bought and consolidated and saddled with massive debt. Most papers would probably do fine without all the debt from mergers and acquisitions.

  7. Wrong generation? by Crashspeeder · · Score: 1

    This may be more of a generation gap than anything else. My Godmother would always have a newspaper around and she'd be reading it but I was never inclined to do so. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure I'd have the attention span to go through a newspaper like she did. Some people can read a newspaper from beginning to end but I'm more of a target reader. I read only something that caught my eye and even then I may only skim it unless I'm genuinely interested in it.

    Will the Kindle bring us back to reading news stories like our parents? I'm not sure. It's a new twist on old technology (print) but I'm not sure it'll be enough. The advantage to the newspaper is it was inexpensive and you could carry it around and read it on the train, bus, etc . when you had downtime. A kindle isn't $0.75 and can be broken. The worst that could happen to a newspaper is that one can rip it or leave it behind. Either of those would be tragic if it happened to a Kindle.

    I think this would catch on better if it were a feature included in something people already use all the time like a cell phone. The Kindle is more of an at-home thing.

    1. Re:Wrong generation? by TRS80NT · · Score: 1

      The generational factor is a good point, but I think there may be more to it. For the record I'm fifty-something and grew up in a newspaper-reading household. "The paper" was always around, even if we were on vacation and the paper had been bought from a rack. When I left home I always subscribed, whever I was, or at least bought one regularily.
      A few years ago though, I let my subscription lapse after a delivery dispute and have never gotten back in the habit. I buy a Sunday paper maybe once or twice a month. And I read it for days. I honestly can't figure out how I used to get through a newspaper every day.

      --
      Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.
  8. I foresee some issues... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...until we get foldable, rollable e-displays.

    I mean, if I can't just pull it out from under the birdcage and roll up the dirt inside it, the way I do with today's print newspapers, it's really not going to work out very well for me.

    1. Re:I foresee some issues... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We already have displays that do that. What we don't have is commercial products using them. Companies want their R&D plus fat profits on yesteryear's technology before moving on.

  9. Modern Revolution? by cashman73 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think when the history books are finally written fifty to one-hundred years from now, that we'll see this is a modern revolution: the media revolution. These things happen every now and then throughout history. While they ultimately bring about major changes in how we do things, they certainly don't happen overnight. But this media revolution is changing the entire face of how we handle and use information, whether it be print, radio, television, internet, music, movies. We've already seen how the music industry, and to some extent, Hollywood, has reacted to this -- though that's only the tip of the iceberg. Mass media corporations and agencies that can adapt to the changes that we are and will be experiencing, will continue to be in business. Those that can't adapt, will fold. Charles Darwin came up with a few words for this: "Survival of the Fittest."

    1. Re:Modern Revolution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Charles Darwin came up with a few words for this: "Survival of the Fittest."

      No, he didn't.
      Those words were coined by journalist Herbert Spencer in a review of "The origin of the species." Darwin thought the phrase fitting and included it in his 6th edition.

  10. A kick in the groin with that subscription? by Scrameustache · · Score: 5, Insightful

    advertising content of traditional periodicals in generally the same format as they appear in print. Publishers hope the new readers may be a way to get readers to pay for those

    I'm willing to pay for content OR to have it infested with ads. Not both.

    They want to have my cake and eat it too. This is why I can't wait for these businesses to crash and burn.

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

    1. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Informative

      You have that wrong.

      They not only want your cake, and Eat it as well.

      They also want to sock you in the kidneys and when you double over they go around behind and kick you in the Jimmies when you least expect it.

      Honestly, Media companies hate the consumer.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by Gizzmonic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm willing to pay for content OR to have it infested with ads. Not both.

      They want to have my cake and eat it too. This is why I can't wait for these businesses to crash and burn.

      We are talking about the traditional newspaper approach. Ads pay the bills, subscribers just defray some costs. Although people around here seem to think print media is dead, I think it's more accurate to say that huge print conglomerates are dying. Small town local newspapers are still making money. Heck, even some of the large city papers like the Houston Chronicle would be profitable if they weren't hitched to the millstone called Hearst Newspapers. Consolidation is a bad idea in these markets. Simply printing wire stories isn't enough anymore. The focus has to be local...and it still works. And it will continue to work, if people are still willing to try it.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    3. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by earlymon · · Score: 1

      My friend, you almost nailed it - ads or subscription, but not both. Here's the part that I think that you've left out:

      They have the same distribution model as for-pay TV: it's a bundle, whether you want it or not. Just finance? Just the cooking section? Just sports? Just local news? Just national or international news? No way - you have to take the whole thing.

      Now, cable and satellite have us bent over, but we've rebelled against the papers. Want a story or subject of interest? It's on the web, it's free and you simply have to put up with annoying ads (aren't they all?). But you do not have to wade through - or pay for - a bunch of crap that you don't care about or don't care about today.

      The problem can't be solved by changing from ink to e-ink because the problem isn't the distribution medium.

      It's the distribution model. Bundling is dead.

      <rant>
      Fuck 'em all. They turned our news centers into profit centers. And they're getting exactly what's been coming to them for doing it - bankruptcy. I'm not all anti-profit; I'm simply against sensationalism. Huntley, Brinkley, Cronkite and Friendly never needed it. I remember paying cash money for the whole rag and liking it just to see Calvin Trillin, Sidney Harris, Mike Royko and William F. Buckley on the editorial page - they thought well and consequently wrote those thoughts well. No room for them or their likes now when the headlines scream and the reporters say just what sells and the readers put up with it because someone is serving their ADD. They say /. karma is cheap, but I'll say this - real-life karma can be a real bitch.
      </rant>

      --
      Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
    4. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm willing to pay for content OR to have it infested with ads. Not both.

      That is how you feel, that's fine. But the truth is, some level of advertising is acceptable to most people even when they pay for content. Advertising can help subsidize the cost of the content, thus allowing people to spend less to receive the same content -- so the publisher can get more people to pay if they charge less.

      The question is, at what point do the drawbacks of including advertising outweigh the cost savings that included advertising brings?

      The answer to this question will vary by person -- you have a very low tolerance for advertising. I, on the other hand, have a fairly high tolerance for it, as long as it is unobtrusive, since I can quickly judge if it's relevant to my interests, and ignore it if it isn't. People have a whole range of value assignations to advertising-free media, and the truth of the matter is that publishers need to work the sweet spots in order to generate enough revenue to be profitable.

      I would prefer to see a scale of offerings, not an oversimplified duality of subscription-only or advertising-only revenue for publishers. I suspect the ad-revenue-only content would be horrific to read, while I wouldn't drop the cash on the subscription-revenue-only content.

      To make a long post short, what exactly is wrong with advertising subsidizing suscription costs?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    5. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Honestly, Media companies hate the consumer.

      No, they don't hate the consumer, they think the consumer is stupid and needs to be led by the hand(and frequently lied to) to see what is in his best interest. Of course that is a large part of why they are failing, the consumer says, "We want X, Y and Z. We don't want A, B, or C." The media companies respond, "No, no you really do want A, B, and C. And why would anybody be interested in X, Y and Z. Here, buy A, B and C from us." Then, they yell loudly as fewer and fewer buy their product.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    6. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

      I'm willing to pay for content OR to have it infested with ads. Not both.

      I'm guessing you don't subscribe to cable or satellite TV services, then? When you bought your car, did you get it without a radio? And have you been to see a movie lately?

      I'm not saying I like having to pay for stuff and then getting ads shoved at me to boot, but it's getting harder and harder to avoid. But newspapers have followed their current business model for hundreds of years, and I think it's a little unfair to expect them to come up with an answer overnight -- especially when, as you pointed out, so many people in this day and age want their newspapers' content for free.

      Unfortunately, "free" doesn't pay the journalists, editors, graphic designers, photographers, etc., to make a living. Some papers do follow a free-to-the-reader model -- The Onion and the Colorado Springs Independent are two good local (to me) examples -- but these are weekly papers, not daily ones, and the costs for printing a daily really do add up. If you can live without dailies like the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, the Rocky Mountain News, or any other of the dozens of newspapers that are struggling to stay in business, then more power to you, I guess ... but I fear we'll see real news coverage dwindle as more and more papers go under.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    7. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by earlymon · · Score: 1

      To make a long post short, what exactly is wrong with advertising subsidizing suscription costs?

      In theory, you're on very firm ground. In reality, maybe not so much.

      What's wrong is that the rubber stopped meeting the road in the early 80s. You'd buy a paper on a weekday and the whole front page would be full of what Reagan & co were up to. Great stuff. I got what I paid for - and then some - due to advertising subsidies (if not truly the other way around). And that was any paper I'd pick up - home in podunkville or in an airport in a Big City.

      Today's paper from anywhere is similarly the same, with only an occasional exception: sensational, tabloid pablum.

      Not news - news product. Let me put it this way: ever go to the "Science" rack at Borders? I have. They had a lot of books on the "science" of remote viewing - you know: close your eyes and believe that ImaginationLand is really real and what you're doing is really valid research. (Haven't been to a Borders since.) Borders doesn't sell books - they sell book product.

      Today's newspapers are to news what Borders is to books.

      If you want to look at ads and pay on top of that, fine, that's your right. Many people are happy to do that with The National Enquirer.

      But if you want news, vote with your wallet and stop paying the subscription.

      Get your news on-line, ala carte (not bundled!!!), supporting 100% by advertising - and let the editors get the web hit reports to decide if its time that actually start doing their jobs. But let them get the same web hit reports for their competitors - just like in the old days, where print media knew which papers were selling the most.

      And if the numbers show that they're really justified in giving us bundles and sensationism, well, we asked for it.

      But if the numbers show that we want news - in-depth, thoughtful and thought-provoking - news, well, maybe we'll start getting that.

      By the way - you seem to like the current newspaper model. When did you first learn of Guantanamo?

      Let me put a long post short: advertisers like pablum - it's all lowest common denominator selling. Subscribers might like news, instead. Who's paying for your news? The advertisers. Advertisers paying for a national or international reach can afford to target intelligent ads to intelligent readers - the ala carte, tracked, web model. And FWIW - The National Enquirer isn't going anywhere - someone has to tell us about B-17s on the dark side of the moon.

      --
      Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
    8. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      ...but I fear we'll see real news coverage dwindle as more and more papers go under.

      I'd say you have that backwards. The real news coverage has already dwindled. That's why we don't care. We're left with television reporters who think that standing out in the wind of a hurricane is news. This assinine idea of "living the story" got so bad that there's a 3D rendered cartoon on Nickelodeon featuring a talking cow that also includes a parody television news reporter who sounds just like the real thing. How much of a mockery are they when a kids' show can mock them and the kids understand it?

      Worse, the surviving news coverage only pisses us off, without any other effect, so we've stopped reading it too. We sit here and read that Senator Ted Stevens is up on charges for taking bribes, asks for an expedited trial, gets convicted, and the assholes come within inches of reelecting him. The difference was under 4000 votes. After 7 felony convictions. The next thing we know, the convictions are overturned because the idiot prosecutor got overzealous and managed to fuck up an open and shut case.[1] Meanwhile, if you or I had 7 felony convictions, we'd have a hard time getting any job at all, nevermind a Senate seat. If I were cynical, I'd say the only job we could get would be a Senate seat...

      Investigative reporting is dead. A reporter can investigate until he's blue in the face, find the smoking gun, with pictures, and half the population won't even believe him. Perhaps rightfully so, since a fair-size chunk of the population is aware that the entertainment that's presented as news is rigged and fake so frequently that none of it is trustworthy. But even when the population wants to believe the results, nothing happens. The good ol' boy network closes ranks, the guilty go free, to come around again in 10 years after everybody has forgotten why they were gone, and business continues as usual.

      And I'm supposed to pay for ringside seats to this circus? Forget it. Stop the music, I want off.

      And so the newspapers die...

      [1] The tin foil hat on my head says that the prosecutor was ordered to screw up the case, on purpose, so that an 87 year old ex-senator wouldn't have to serve time or pay a fine, just so long as he was unelectable. I'd be more inclined to believe the conspiracy theory if the margin hadn't been so close...

    9. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by bit01 · · Score: 1

      as long as it is unobtrusive,

      An unobtrusive ad is a non-functioning ad. It is a non-sustainable business model.

      Particularly in today's media overloaded world you're dreaming if you think "unobtrusive advertising" is possible long term.

      All forms of unclassified advertising push up the advertising load till the media has a net value just marginally above zero. Network TV is already dead (valueless) because of this and movies and the web are heading the same way.

      To make a long post short, what exactly is wrong with advertising subsidizing suscription costs?

      You're paying twice over; once in time and attention to avoid the ad and twice in the increased price of the product to pay for the ad.

      Most unsolicited media advertising is just a shell game to hide the true cost of the media from the consumer while paying advertising middlemen who add little to no value.

      ---

      The majority of modern marketing is nothing more than an arms race to get mind share. Everybody loses except the parasitic marketing "industry".

    10. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, Media companies hate the consumer.

      No, they don't hate the consumer, they think the consumer is stupid

      No, still wrong. The media companies don't give a rat's ass about what the consumer wants, they worry about what their advertisers want. The consumer is the product that the media companies sell to the advertisers.

    11. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by phaggood · · Score: 1

      I'm willing to pay for content OR to have it infested with ads. Not both.

      You mean like USA Networks, TBS and all the cable channels that turn 90min movies into mini-series with all the commercials they pack into them?

    12. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Advertising can help subsidize the cost of the content, thus allowing people to spend less to receive the same content

      The CAN but they DON'T. They tweak the price so the unwashed masses pay as much as they're willing to pay and they cram as much advertising as they can on top of that.

      What they don't realise is that they've pushed too far: They're looking for a new angle at which to apply the same pressure.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    13. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by winwar · · Score: 1

      "The CAN but they DON'T. They tweak the price so the unwashed masses pay as much as they're willing to pay and they cram as much advertising as they can on top of that."

      Most couldn't do it if they had to. If the newspaper charged me the non-ad supported rate I would not subscribe. Advertising pays the bills-whether it is papers, magazines or the web. The subscriber data is used to justify the ad pricing.

    14. Re:A kick in the groin with that subscription? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      I'm willing to pay for content OR to have it infested with ads. Not both.

      I'm guessing you don't subscribe to cable or satellite TV services, then? When you bought your car, did you get it without a radio? And have you been to see a movie lately?

      I've stopped watching TV partly because the channels that I paid to get added ads after I first started watching them; You don't have to keep paying for the radio after you purchase the device, so that was not applicable; I've greatly reduced my movie-outings since they started spamming me before the coming attractions, I get the DVD and watch it on compy via VLC so it goes straight to the menu, skipping the crap they put in before that.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  11. Comics, Crossword, Sudoku, and... by camperdave · · Score: 1

    I would never get a newspaper. The only things of value to me in a newspaper are the comics, the crossword and sudoku, and possibly the movie listings. Other than that, it is a giant waste of paper. The news I get from the TV and radio, I don't care about sports scores, or stock quotes, or obituaries. Besides, the cost of a regular home delivery newspaper would be about the same as an internet hookup. So, what's the point of a newspaper, other than collecting special issues and lining bird cages?

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:Comics, Crossword, Sudoku, and... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      I would never get a newspaper. The only things of value to me in a newspaper are the comics, the crossword and sudoku, and possibly the movie listings.

      You do realize that all four are available on the Internet for free, in far wider and deeper variety than any one newspaper could possibly carry, right?

    2. Re:Comics, Crossword, Sudoku, and... by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Yes, hence the "I would never get a newspaper" part of my comment.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    3. Re:Comics, Crossword, Sudoku, and... by maxume · · Score: 1

      Did you read the first 6 words that you quoted?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  12. Could work, in theory by Tridus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'd be interested in this, provided it's on a device I can use for other things (like a Kindle, I don't want a newspaper only reader), and it can get the paper wirelessly every morning. If those two things are true, I'd likely transfer my dead tree subscription over to the digital one, which saves the newspaper the cost of printing and delivering a paper to me every day (which are substantial costs).

    Of course, right now the Kindle doesn't really work in Canada at all, so that's a pipe dream for me at the moment.

    --
    -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
  13. I _want_ a larger reader by langelgjm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I would say the reason smaller devices have been accepted in the marketplace is because there are almost no larger devices.

    As a grad student who's just finished a master's degree, and is about to start down the long path to a PhD, I know I'm going to have to read a zillion PDFs - journal articles, scanned chapters of books, working papers from repositories, etc. I really want an ebook/digital reader, but I'm reluctant.

    The only large-screen device I can find is the iRex DR-1000. It's got a 1024x1280 10" display, so much larger than the standard 600x800 of most readers. That would be great for PDFs. There's also a version with a stylus that allows for direct annotation on the screen. Fantastic.

    Downside? It's about $900, has been reported to have battery life problems, and people give very mixed reviews to the firmware. Aside from the iRex, there's nothing else in this category (or if there is, please let me know!).

    If someone made a larger, hi-res competitor to the DR-1000, and it cost maybe $500-$700, you might see more interest in larger readers. But right now, iRex has no competition.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by I.M.O.G. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If someone made a larger, hi-res competitor to the DR-1000, and it cost maybe $500-$700, you might see more interest in larger readers. But right now, iRex has no competition.

      I'd wager your the exception however and there isn't a critical mass of consumers looking for a product to meet the needs you have. iRex has no competition in this area, but yet their reader hasn't been much of a success. The lack of options is a symptom of demand, not supply in my opinion.

    2. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The fact that a $100, roughly paper sized, highly legible, long battery life, great software containing device isn't on the market probably has quite a lot to do with it not being possible right now.

      I'm pretty sure such a device would sell millions and millions of units.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by nine-times · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree. There's definitely a part of me that would like to see a reader that could render a full-sized 8.5"x11" page (or European equivalent). That might not be the easiest to carry around or even the most efficient reading size, but it'd be nice to be able to print a document to a normal PDF formatted for normal printing, throw it on my e-book reader, and go.

      But ok, maybe that's too big by several measures. Still, I have a larger point: the display sizes for these things shouldn't be based on conforming to screen sizes, but instead based on standard print sizes. 1024x1280? 600x800? I don't really care. Give me a screen that's the size of a normal paperback book page, and have the whole device be not-very-much-bigger.

    4. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by stei7766 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm in the exact same boat, and I would like to quit killing trees to read articles...but the LCD hurts my eyes!

      Heck, I might be willing to pay 900 bucks for the DR-1000 if it had decent reviews, but as you mentioned they are very mixed.

      I know lots and lots of academics who would pay the same.

    5. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by averner · · Score: 1

      Why don't you just get a tablet PC?

      --
      Member of the 7 Digit UID Club
    6. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by Brandee07 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The 600x800 screen costs $60 (http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/04/22/kindle.2.cost.breakdown/)

      Amazon, Sony, iRex all get their screens from the SAME manufacturer, E Ink.

      $100 eBook devices are probably in our future, but only after E Ink (or some competitor) gets their economies of scale in place and can significantly lower manufacturing costs.

    7. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      The whole point of getting a reader (for me, at least), is the e-ink display. I have a laptop I can read PDFs on. I hate it. It's tiring to read any more than about 20 pages of a PDF on-screen.

      When I first saw an e-ink display, I actually thought it was a non-working display model, because it looked too good to be true. High contrast, fairly crisp text, no glare, can be read in sunlight... you can't get that on a tablet PC.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    8. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      The resolution is important, though, because it's a matter of how much readable text you can fit on the screen at one time.

      The Kindle and Sony readers seem fine for reading paper-back style e-books. Paperbacks are fairly small anyway, and the text can be wrapped or whatever to fit the screen. But for someone who wants to read PDFs, many of which may be image-based (i.e., scans, perhaps with underlying text or not), that text can't be wrapped. Higher resolution means being able to see the entire page (or even the entire width of the page).

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    9. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by maxume · · Score: 1

      Right. My point was that it is easy to come up with a scenario where supply is the problem, rather than demand (demand is certainly a key issue when you are talking about $500+ devices though).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    10. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Well I don't want a larger reader.

      I want a _practical_ wearable computer - long operating life between charges/refuels. Compact, light. High res display that doesn't look too silly and doesn't cause eye-strain. Support for WiFi and cellphone, and other stuff (audio, usb, bluetooth).

      Then I can read the newspaper or other stuff in hi-res and not have to lug around something huge.

      Maybe once they get the neural interface thing worked out we'd be able to have multiple hi-res video+audio channels in to our brains (and some output channels).

      In the meantime a tiny hi-res screen that just looks big from the user's perspective is fine with me.

      I think the tech is already available or nearly there.

      --
    11. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I for one, is waiting something like that. And I know a lot of people in academia are also waiting.
      Hopefully, within one year, something like the following will come out:

      http://www.plasticlogic.com/

    12. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my point wasn't that resolution doesn't matter, but rather when you start talking about resolutions like "1024x1280", I think you might be taking the wrong approach. Instead of treating it like a computer screen and bumping up through the normal screen resolutions, it seems to me like the better thing to do is start from the question, "What are people going to be reading on these things, and given that, what is the optimal page size?" Once you have a page size, you figure out the DPI necessary for comfortable reading, and go from there.

    13. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by metamatic · · Score: 1

      Give me a screen that's the size of a normal paperback book page, and have the whole device be not-very-much-bigger.

      The Kindle's about the same size as a trade paperback, and the screen area is about the same as a regular paperback. There you go.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    14. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      scanned chapters of books

      Terrorist pirate.

    15. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by greenguy · · Score: 1

      My thoughts exactly. Give me a touchscreen that's letter-size (A4 edition, optionally). I also want it as the inside front (or back) cover of an organizer, so I can store my dead trees with my bits and bytes.

      The most inviting way replace my paper-based data is to make the transition as convenient as possible.

      --
      What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?
    16. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      Higher resolution means being able to see the entire page (or even the entire width of the page).

      I've seen this kind of comment before in the MobiRead forums. You are thinking inside the box.

      Pages are an artifact of the mechanical process used to print documents. There is no physical significance to a "page" other than it determines how large a physical instance of a document will be. In fact, when I read the summary for this thread, I was thinking "how mobile would a device be that can show a broadsheet (one 'page' in newspapers) all at once?"

      Book publishers have known that all along. They are forced to "repage" books when they go from hardbound to paper because the "pages" are smaller. They don't worry about keeping the same page numbers. If there is an index, they have to re-index. It's part of the process.

      When you say you want your Kindle or Sony to "show a full page", they already do. The PROBLEM is that the e-documents are coming with pre-defined pages, when they should come with pre-defined logical sections. Paragraphs and chapters are logical divisions. Pages are completely artificial. And as I reread that statement, I realize I'm pushing for TRUE HTML format -- not this modern "here's how your page WILL look", but "here's the information, you define how you want it to look" model.

      I read documents on my LifeDrive. Very small "pages", but the plain-text documents I read fit a full page on every screen. Yes, the page is probably on e tenth or one fifth the content of the printed book's page, but I don't care. I have no reason to care. I turn pages a lot faster than on the paper version, but that's a flick of a button.

      I also read (or try to read) scientific journal articles on my Sony PRS. It's horrid. That's because the publisher has copied the page format from the printed journal. I really don't care if the second page of the article appears on page 13452 (as it does in the printed journal) or "2". That info is irrelevant. What's more important is reading the info in the article. The proper format for e-distribution would have the article reformat on the device and IGNORE any "page" nonsense the publisher wants to force on people.

      In other words, PDF doesn't require a specific page size to see the entire "page", it's the publishers who force this. Saying "I want a pdf reader that shows the full page" is putting the blame in the wrong place.

    17. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not so much "thinking inside the box" as it is "living in reality".

      I have gigabytes of PDF files for which I do not have the original source documents: Vendor white papers, product manuals, eBooks from Packt, etc.
      These are all formatted for 8.5x11 pages. If I want to read these on my PRS-500, I have a few choices:

      1) Load them onto the PRS-500 unmodified, and use landscape view mode. This is pretty ass-tastic, and usually I get about 4 pages into it before
      I decide it's not worth it.
      2) Convert the PDFs into images, then chop up the images so that they are "readable" @ 800x600. This only "works" (for pretty small values of "works")
      for really small PDF documents.
      3) Extract PDF text using one of the many available utilities. Assuming the PDF isn't just a wrapper around a TIFF of a scan (like the Fisher body manual for my '68 Riviera), I'm still going to lose all the formatting unless I spend loads of time editing the output. By the time I've created a workable document I've practically
      memorized it, so why the hell do I need to have it on my reader?

    18. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call it "thinking inside the box" so much as thinking practically.

      Why do I want a larger, higher-resolution screen? Because I know the content that I will receive is not going to be plain text that can be wrapped and reformatted at will. In fact, in many cases it may not even be searchable text, just scans of book chapters, etc.

      Aside from that, resolution and DPI absolutely do matter, regardless of what type of document you're reading. It's not so much about "pages" as it is screen real-estate. I don't want to have to be constantly scrolling around to refer to the previous sentence because a reader with a small-screen only displays 1/5 the text of a page from a regular book. Maybe I'm atypical in this respect (I do have a triple-display setup, so I am used to having large amounts of screen space).

      Finally, I would also be wary of leaving all rendering up to client devices. IMO one of the major benefits of having PDF articles from journals is precisely that those articles look like they came from the journal. They are properly typeset, use sane fonts, and look neat and clean. HTML versions of the same articles look like shit. I don't know what it is about PDFs that just makes them visually more appealing, but they invariably look better than HTML or Word documents on screen.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    19. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      Because I know the content that I will receive is not going to be plain text...

      Doesn't have to be. All it has to be is some page definition language that says "here's a title", "here's a paragraph" etc.

      that can be wrapped and reformatted at will.

      If you get the former, you get the latter.

      Yes, I know that much of the old content is being page scanned into PDFs as IMAGES of the page. I have found this format to be usable on the Sony in landscape mode (half a book page per page), IF the file decodes at all. Color PDFs from archive.org tend not to; B/W are still huge but usually do.

      That doesn't mean that anything since 1980 needs to be provided that way.

      Aside from that, resolution and DPI absolutely do matter,...

      Didn't say it didn't. I'm talking about "pages" and display size, not resolution.

      Finally, I would also be wary of leaving all rendering up to client devices. IMO one of the major benefits of having PDF articles from journals is precisely that those articles look like they came from the journal. They are properly typeset, use sane fonts, and look neat and clean. HTML versions of the same articles look like shit. I don't know what it is about PDFs that just makes them visually more appealing, but they invariably look better than HTML or Word documents on screen.

      There is no reason that a publisher could not use a "pageless" formatting language that properly marks text that can be reflowed and, e.g., equations that cannot. In fact, the Sony will try to reflow text in PDFs, so there must be some way of knowing which is which, just few seem to want to mark it that way.

      I suspect that the HTML versions of journals is poor because they don't do the proper formatting, but I don't know. I never select the HTML version -- because it typically looks like crap. Or they are HTML-izing based on THEIR browser and the commands it likes, and they are using IE. Or/And they are trying to force certain formatting assuming specific font sizes instead of letting the browser format it, which is the kind of crap the results in "submit" buttons that have the top half of the characters "SUB" and nothing else.

      Considering the number of people who simply ignore things like the TITLE and AUTHOR headers for PDF files, it may be a very hard education task, but that doesn't mean it won't work when it is used. (I am getting really tired of US Government produced documents in locked PDF format that have titles like "Microsoft PDF-Writer 352.9 Version 9".)

    20. Re:I _want_ a larger reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (or European equivalent)

      Pedantic correction: (or non-US equivalent).

      The USA and Europe are each about 5% of the world's population. 95% of the world uses metric, A4 in this case.

  14. Of course not. Here's why: by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Newspapers used to add value. Once upon a time, people who worked for newspapers actually wrote articles. In fact, papers had writers on staff who could be counted on to keep delivering articles that someone might want to read. Now, all the articles come from wire services. So while you might think the situation is bad because one company owns all the papers in your hometown, the situation is actually completely and totally fucked because every significant article in your paper comes from one of a small handful of news agencies.

    It is true that major, important articles still come from newspapers, even corporate ones like the New York Times, or the Los Angeles Times. We will all be the less when newspapers are gone, and we have less news sources. But on a day to day basis, the average consumer could do without them. They can get the news from the wire sources directly, and at the point where they are using a computer to read the news, their news-reading device can do content aggregation and filtering for them. I wouldn't recommend it to any average person, but for the technically literate it is possible today to fairly trivially create your own Slashdot-like news site with automatically aggregated content, comments and/or forums, spam filtering, OpenID et cetera using LAMP with Drupal... using only published modules. And if you just bought a tablet, you could run it on the device. The only things missing from this plan are the e-Ink display and the ease of use (including the pretty interface... but you could probably do that in the browser too, with some jQuery effects.)

    There are probably even easier recipes for doing the same thing. The simplest (from the actual implementation standpoint) is to just use the RSS functionality in Firefox or similar. But firefox isn't exactly optimized for use on that kind of display... My current goal is getting Angstrom Linux working on my WebDT 366. I got it to build but then the kernel was apparently built for i686 somehow, even though I specified Geode LX. So far OpenEmbedded is kicking my ass :(

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by pzs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ben Goldacre had it right.

      The thing that bothers me with newspaper and TV news is that many stories need information from a specialist and they insist on putting a non-specialist, a journalist, between you and the person who knows what they're talking about.

      In scientific stories, you always get a 3 minute story with an idiot dressed in a lab-coat dumbing down the message of a professor or medic, followed by a measly 10 second snippet with the actual expert. Of course experts won't always speak in the most media friendly way possible - so coach them! Edit the interview until it makes sense! But don't feed them through a non-comprehending cipher.

      It really is reaching the stage where the best way to get the information is to find a decent blog from somebody who actually works in that field.

    2. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      We will all be the less when newspapers are gone, and we have less news sources. But on a day to day basis, the average consumer could do without them. They can get the news from the wire sources directly, ...

      I suggest you enumerate the sources of reporting that will exist once newspapers are gone. I think that most people who do that go a little pale after doing so.

      The thing is, we might not like the format of newspapers, and we might not even care about the reporting that often. But if politicians and corporations don't have the threat of reporters sniffing around, I believe we're really, deeply, sans-lubricant screwed.

    3. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      You seem to think that the purpose of news is to inform the audience. This hasn't been the case for at least a decade. It is just there to sell ad space.

    4. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by pzs · · Score: 1

      That depends what you mean by "reporters". What about Guido Fawkes? HuffPo? Crooks and Liars? None of these are newspapers and yet they all contain hard hitting journalism and telling the truth to power. They link to newspapers, yes, but this is only a small portion of their source content.

    5. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ben Goldacre had it right.

      That's a pretty good list, especially 1, 4, and 5.

      It does seem to me that large newspapers are having trouble on the web because they don't seem to understand the differences of what the "new media" has to offer. I don't got to the NYT website to read my news, I come to Slashdot or Digg, who might possibly link to the NYT. Why is that?

      Well, first because they're offering a broader selection of news. Second and more importantly, Slashdot provides a good discussion system for me to talk about the story. It gives a place where people, sometimes with equal or greater expertise than those writing the story, can comment, either supporting the conclusions of the article or picking them apart. There's added depth.

      And this is where the biggest value of this "new media" comes in: there aren't real space limitations. You can put up all your content, as much as you have, in any number of combinations, permutations, and sorted in any number of ways, all at the same time. You can have a good discussion system, and people who aren't interested in it can choose not to visit it. If you have a scientific issue and you have two different experts with differing opinions, you can have the dumbed-down synopsis of the debate written by a journalist, but you can also allow each expert to write their own argument and publish them alongside the journalist's story.

      The only real expense for these things is in editing or moderating, which I think probably can be done in a cost-effective way.

    6. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      That depends what you mean by "reporters". What about Guido Fawkes? HuffPo? Crooks and Liars? None of these are newspapers and yet they all contain hard hitting journalism and telling the truth to power. They link to newspapers, yes, but this is only a small portion of their source content.

      For the sake of argument, what are their non-newspaper sources?

    7. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. Something of value WILL be lost when the newspapers are gone. However, their added value has still diminished over the years.

      Here's some of my favorite articles produced by major news outlets:

      What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?
      Dark cloud over good works of Gates Foundation
      How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Many specialists don't bother blogging. You may still need someone (journalist or PR person) to summarize a scientific publication.

      I find the stuff here OK: http://www.eurekalert.org/

      However many newspapers cater for the 95% of the population. 95% of the population don't really care about science and tech.

      The thing is, they might not even care about "news". Compared with 50-100 years ago, there might be 10000x more things for the 95% to get interested in.

      --
    9. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by janwedekind · · Score: 1

      The only real expense for these things is in editing or moderating, which I think probably can be done in a cost-effective way.

      Comment moderated as "Insightful"

    10. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by dargaud · · Score: 1

      The thing that bothers me with newspaper and TV news is that many stories need information from a specialist and they insist on putting a non-specialist, a journalist, between you and the person who knows what they're talking about.

      Yes. One the one hand I have a lot of respect for the job of journalist (war stories and all), but on the other hand I was interviewed several times in 2005 while doing some new kind of scientific mission in Antarctica.

      Every time the articles were full of shit, completely misrepresenting what was said. Even the videos: they would cut at the most meaningless moments and keep the stupid stuff (me slipping on ice, very funny) !

      It was up to a point that many of my colleagues would point blank refuse to talk with journalists... while (one) other absolutely loved the exposure, no matter what ended up being written.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    11. Re:Of course not. Here's why: by phaggood · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the first killer app for the javascript-powered Palm Pre.

  15. Why, are they idiots? by wonkavader · · Score: 5, Informative

    "...unlike the iPod it's going to be a slower process migrating people from print to the device."

    What? Why in Heaven's name would Roger say that? If these come out at $50, come with a library of great books (all free from Gutenberg et al.), and allow you to put whatever you like on them in some open format which the FOSS community can create converters for, why wouldn't it blow the iPOD sales records out of the water?

    And there's no reason for them to charge more than $50. They spend the price of a Kindle printing newspapers on every subscriber every year. They can sell it for $50 with a one-year subscription to two newspapers, or give it to anyone who has been a subscriber (showing a pattern of reading) for more than two years.

    The difference between this sort of thing and the Kindle or the iPod is striking. Those were both created to sell downloads, and thus try to cripple you from doing anything other than buy from Amazon or iTunes. This proposed reader is a desperate attempt to move off of an expensive process (printing papers) and onto a cheap one.

    The Kindle and the iPod are designed to wring more and more money out of the consumer. These are designed to preserve a revenue stream from an advertiser. One is designed to entrance and restrict, the other to entrance and keep entranced, whatever small cost is needed to accomplish that.

    If the newspapers don't make this thing explode such that EVERYBODY has one by the end of the first year, it'll be because of gross incompetence (which I'm still betting on, unfortunately) or lack of ability to produce enough of them.

    1. Re:Why, are they idiots? by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 1

      If these come out at $50, come with a library of great books (all free from Gutenberg et al.), and allow you to put whatever you like on them in some open format which the FOSS community can create converters for, why wouldn't it blow the iPOD sales records out of the water?

      Because most people like to listen to music and/or watch movies and/or play games. Many fewer people like to read newspapers and books.

    2. Re:Why, are they idiots? by iamhigh · · Score: 1

      Have you taken into account the change that these will invoke in user experience? ipods came out when there was already many portable mp3 players available (but I think mine at that time could only hold 64 megs). Even if you didn't have an mp3 player, you were probably used to portable music players. This isn't true with e-readers. People are not used to downloading the paper to a device and using it again and again. They pick up the paper (from driveway, store, stand or whatever) read and discard. No thought to the medium. Now can you see how it might not be *ONLY* incompetence that prevents them from gaining massive adoption right away. If it's that easy I look forward to seeing the wonkavader e-reader out by 2010 and in the hands of everyone.

      --
      No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
    3. Re:Why, are they idiots? by wonkavader · · Score: 1

      "If it's that easy I look forward to seeing the wonkavader e-reader out by 2010 and in the hands of everyone."

      Oh! for the budget of these newspapers. Oh! how I'd LOVE to be running that project. Heck yeah!

      As for change of experience, I wonder if there are sales numbers as to how many people had a portable MP3 player before they bought an iPod. We had them, sure, but we're the techies who love such things.

    4. Re:Why, are they idiots? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      The difference between this sort of thing and the Kindle or the iPod is striking. Those were both created to sell downloads, and thus try to cripple you from doing anything other than buy from Amazon or iTunes.

      Actually, it's iTunes that's designed to sell you iPods, not so much the other way around. There's nothing crippled about the iPod to prevent you from getting music from other sources, but it's iTunes content that's crippled to prevent you from listening to it on non-iPod players (though that's not the case for music anymore).

    5. Re:Why, are they idiots? by IchNiSan · · Score: 1

      One more thing to carry around and worry about whether or not it was charged? No thanks, not gonna happen. I have a Kindle, loved it at first but quickly lost interest for reasons mentioned above.

      I'll read a BOOK, thanks, and get my news on the internet using my laptop or phone, both of which I have already trained myself to keep charged/with me at all times.

      I am not sure I would even want one for free.

    6. Re:Why, are they idiots? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      They pick up the paper (from driveway, store, stand or whatever) read and discard. No thought to the medium.

      On the contrary, I don't think that there's no thought to the medium. I think part of the reason it was so easy to move music over to MP3 is because people could pay no thought to the medium. Like you say, people were used to portable players (Walkman) and so they were used to listening to music through headphones. The iPod just changed how the music was stored, but it didn't change very much about the experience of listening to it.

      The problem with newspapers, if anything, is that people interact with the medium directly and are very aware of changes in the medium. Lots of people like the smell and feel of paper. Newspaper readers have little rituals about how they fold and open the paper, how they skim through the contents, and which articles they read first. You can't do that stuff with an e-ink reader.

    7. Re:Why, are they idiots? by 9re9 · · Score: 1

      Here's a thought: Why not structure the pricing differently? Give it away for free or ~$50 to those who want it only to read the paper, and the device is locked down for those users. If you want to read other sources (Gutenberg, other publishers, etc.) you have to pay full price for the device? That way, the barrier to entry for people who might not otherwise want the devise is low, but it is still attractive to those who understand the benefit of an unlocked device.

  16. For them or for us? by darpo · · Score: 1

    while allowing publishers to save millions on the cost of printing and distributing their publications

    How much you wanna bet that those savings are NOT passed on to the reader?

    1. Re:For them or for us? by chill · · Score: 1

      That depends on whether or not the savings are enough to pull them back into the black. Many of these papers are deep in debt and the cost savings are just to keep them afloat.

      The the answer will either be "no" -- they're back in the black; or "HELL no" -- they're still in the red.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    2. Re:For them or for us? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      How much you wanna bet that those savings are NOT passed on to the reader?

      Considering that nearly all newspapers are operating deeply in the red, I'd guess a lot of those savings will not be passed on to the reader, except in the sense that the newspapers will be able to stay in business.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  17. No 'goodluckwiththat' tag? by moon3 · · Score: 1

    I mean real paper is something we are actually ok-with to pay for. You can reuse that paper later on, it is perfectly readable, even colorful, bendable, stretchable, you can wrap your snack in it, feels good to tough, smells good, u know..

  18. Consolidation and modernization by uncreativeslashnick · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The current generation of newspapers is carrying an infrastructure designed to deal with distribution issues from 100 years ago. We have literally hundreds of newspapers in the U.S., with dozens that are considered "newspapers of record" or major players. In an age when information is instant, and you don't have to wait for dead trees to get delivered to your doorstep to get it, there's just too many news sources.

    Does anyone else think it odd that the white house press room is filled with reporters? 3 or 4 reporters could do the same job as the 20 or 30 that pack that news room. I also find it funny that most of the major newspapers carry substantially the same stories. It's all very redundant, because it's designed to be distributed locally in an age when that delivery process took an entire day, and delivering over longer distances was not feasible for a daily paper.

    The major newspapers will mostly die or consolidate. Technology has made redundant having a major newspaper with all its attendant printing machinery, reporters, staff, etc. in every major city. Certainly there will be a market for a few major newspapers, but not the sheer number we have today.

    I don't think it's the end of the world scenario that people are painting it to be, either. We'll still have multiple sources of info (I suspect the NY Times and Wall Street journal for instance will survive, along with a multitude of local news outlets and other media outlets like cable news networks and bloggers), there just won't be the increadible multiplicity we have today.

    1. Re:Consolidation and modernization by infosinger · · Score: 1

      I think its downright odd that 20-30 reporters all reach the same conclusions and often times the same wording when describing the White House event. Maybe part of the reason the news business is suffering(look at CNN and MSNBC as well) is that the idea of differentiation and value has been lost in this business. 30 years ago you could be sure to get differing viewpoints from the press corp and a constant challenge to the powers that be (Watergate, for example). In the current situation I think 3 or 4 reports is still too many. Just have the White House send out their press releases and all the newspapers can just publish them.

    2. Re:Consolidation and modernization by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Does anyone else think it odd that the white house press room is filled with reporters? 3 or 4 reporters could do the same job as the 20 or 30 that pack that news room.

      I think that there should be more reporters in there (and asking more hard-hitting questions). The press is the unofficial fourth branch. 3-4 people are easier to bribe/coerce than 40-50(400-500) people.

    3. Re:Consolidation and modernization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? 3-4 reporters? How am I going to cross check their reporting if it's limited to 3 or 4 reporters? The more the better. It will lead us (the people) to cover ups and mistruths and all of that. The more legitimate reporters (and not blogged regurgitation) the better.

    4. Re:Consolidation and modernization by porges · · Score: 1

      Don't forget: Woodward and Bernstein weren't in the WH press corps at all.

    5. Re:Consolidation and modernization by winwar · · Score: 1

      "...(and asking more hard-hitting questions)..."

      And these are the people who won't be allowed to ask questions. The press room is there to get their message out, not to inform.

  19. Amazon - Standard - WTF by krischik · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Amazons Reader won't even read all of Amazons own formats. Remember Amazon bought Mobipocket yet Kindle won't read Mobipocket DRM protected files.

    And then you expect them to read other companies formats? You must be kidding.

    Martin

    1. Re:Amazon - Standard - WTF by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 1

      Well, yes and no. They won't read them if you just toss the mobi files on. Takes about ten seconds with a command line program to make them compatible though.

      --
      Everything will be taken away from you.
  20. One word ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No

    -------

    Personally I wouldn't carry both a smartphone and one of these new digital readers just for a bit of news. If I want to do some real reading the give me a book.

  21. ebook + wireless = subscription by RichMan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Newspapers should offer wireless enabled ebooks with 1 or 2 year subscriptions.

    The newspaper will save on print and distribution costs.
    People will still be able to read the news with breakfast.

    1. Re:ebook + wireless = subscription by Brandee07 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Kindle newspapers have monthly subscriptions, with wireless delivery. The lack of ads is wonderful.

    2. Re:ebook + wireless = subscription by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but will you be able to share the paper with the rest of the family?

  22. Can you imagine by Chasmyr · · Score: 0

    Can you imagine your paper boy throwing an e-reader at your front door every morning?! Especially if this thing is mean to be newspaper sized... I don't think the newspaper companies have thought this through clearly!

  23. Ads direct to you! by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

    Would the classic newspaper model really work on a subscription digital newspaper, considering that half the newspaper's pages (sometimes more) is wall to wall ads? And that's not even counting the classifieds, ads paid for by the subscribers themselves!

  24. News on BeBook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I already read my news on the BeBook, for free, with no subscription. It's easy: I have created a program that downloads all the current news from Wikipedia and the daily news from Wikinews, put them all in a smallscreen bigfont PDF, and voila, I read my news on the BeBook. With the same program, with a different config file, I also get Wikipedia on my BeBook. I cannot understand the hype about $300 readers, subscriptions, and Kindle since the BeBook is already available, cheap, and reads everything for free with no subscriptions.

  25. It's the iPhone, Palm Pre, and Blackberry stupid. by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I got a Kindle and an iPod Touch for Christmas from my wife. I loved the kindle but it is just a little big to carry around. When Amazon came out with the Kindle reader for the the iPhone/iPod Touch I tried it out. Guess what it is wonderful. I always have my iPod Touch in my pocket. I use it it to read a lot more than I do my Kindle. At home I may use my Kindle but the Touch is just too handy.
    It is the next gen of smart phones that you need to put news papers on. AT&T no has the Nokia E71x smart phone for only $99. Even "feature" phones are getting pretty dang smart these days. Soon everybody will have a Palm WebOS, iPhone, Blackberry, Android, S60, or for those poor souls Windows Mobile device. The question still will be how will they make money? Will people be willing to pay or will ads work?

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  26. I will go back to our home town newspaper... by ducomputergeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The St. Louis Post-Dispatch. We always had a subscription and I used to read it in the morning before going to school. Well, skimmed major articles, and looked at the comics and sports pages mostly, but the daily newspaper was fairly thick and had a decent metro section.

    Well, year after year it kept getting thinner and thinner with more generic articles purchased from Ruters or the AP. In the past 5 years my Dad and I can think of a single major multi-part story they did on the corruption going on in local fire protection districts. It was a damn interesting read and something people needed to know about (like how many wives were on fire boards voting for pay increases, etc..) But that was one investigation in 5 years. Meanwhile the business section was cut down to the top local stocks and that was the death nail. Why pay $0.35 a day for the same wire stories you had already read online and he can go to the website and get the local sports stories.

    If they brought back more local investigations and reported more about what was going on around town, you know have content that was interesting and worth reading, he'd get a subscription.

    I think news magazines are in the same boat. Time, Newsweek, etc. all seem to be thinner than I remember once upon a time. It's gotten to the point where the only ones I read on a regular basis are The Economist and Der Speigel when I can find a copy.

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    1. Re:I will go back to our home town newspaper... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Local papers are on life support. There is simply not enough revenue to make up for the cost of maintaining a quality staff of reporters, journalists, and editors.

      Advertising doesn't bring in enough dough anymore, people go online to find local businesses, and so advertisers pay less to be in the paper (never mind declining circulations). Circulation revenue (subscriptions) has dropped.

      The truth of the matter is that newspapers have basically outlived their usefulness. Once upon a time the town square and town criers served that purpose; then newspapers took over; now the web is usurping newspapers as centers for local news and communication.

      Local papers are in their death throes, and while I mourn the passing of quality local papers, what I fear most is that we have gotten so used to getting things for free on the internet that there will be no way for quality reporting and journalism to support itself online.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:I will go back to our home town newspaper... by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, you got something backwards there and Helen Thomas touched on this in her book. People will read interesting stories of local interest, but that takes a news room and reporters to do, and that is expensive. As newspapers looked to cut costs, they slashed the news room. Well, less local stories and investigative journalism meant less interest and more people stopped reading. So what did the news papers do? They continued to cut the local reporting and news room staff, and guess what, they continued to loose readership. It becomes a vicious cycle where the newspapers are slowing killing themselves with paper cuts. (Bad pun, I know)

      I rarely agree with the woman on anything, but that was her insights after 40+ years in the business. And I think she nailed it.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    3. Re:I will go back to our home town newspaper... by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

      Funny you mention Newsweek - I just picked up a Kindle 2 last week. I had heard there were periodicals available (for a price). I figured I'd check out Newsweek, until I read the reviews - With no charts, etc. Newsweek is pretty bland. It seems like - at least for now - this is yet another example of traditional media just not getting it.

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    4. Re:I will go back to our home town newspaper... by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      If they brought back more local investigations and reported more about what was going on around town

      I've been calling for that for years. Here in California, the asshat shenanigans of the state government are an epic greater than the fall of the Roman Empire, but you can't turn on the local news and hear boo about it. It's like "the government finally passed a budget today"; cut to clip of some dumbass legislator acting like they just cured AIDS, cancer and all global conflicts in one shot; another shot of another bought and sold politician saying how the taxpayers need to "sacrifice" (for the 1395th time), and then on to the *important* news! Christian Bale had another hissy fit, and some actress went back into rehab.

    5. Re:I will go back to our home town newspaper... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      I agree about the downward spiral, but I don't think it's causative. I think instead it just exacerbated the existing problem, which is that the output value of a local newsroom is less than the cost of maintaining one. Yes, people enjoy good local news -- but the internet would have cut the ad revenue of papers regardless.

      Whether papers could have forestalled this by cutting costs elsewhere is possible; but I do not think they could have prevented it, only delayed it.

      Also, please keep in mind that Helen Thomas was writing from the perspective of the reporter/journalist. While I respect her opinions, I feel in this case she might be slightly biased :)

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  27. Wishful thinking? by Corson · · Score: 1

    It's a paradigm shift -- people won't pay for news because news are available wrapped up in ads everywhere on the Net and on cable TV, so why pay for access to a (e-)newspaper, which is also supported by lots of ads anyway.

    1. Re:Wishful thinking? by Brandee07 · · Score: 1

      Current Kindle newspaper subscriptions have no ads, or even classified sections.

      I, however, have no doubt that if they could squeeze ads into eBook versions of newspapers, they would. And probably will.

  28. We want it like a computer by netsavior · · Score: 1

    so the specs are like this: it must be like a computer, but not as functional, and roughly as expensive as say a Netbook. It just seems like newspapers are dying of natural selection.

  29. NO. NOT NOW. NOT EVER. I'M COMING FOR ALL OF YOU! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, but they might save O'Rielly & Associates which should be making money hand-over-fist with Bookshelf subscriptions and saving it so they can last longer as their market share is eroded by Packt and others.

  30. My childhood wonder by mutu310 · · Score: 1

    I remember in my childhood around 20 years ago wondering if and when this will happen. My estimates at the time were just about right (I estimated this to be happening big in about 5 or 6 years' time). Yes, it works, up until people start adding new features to it and it becomes bloated.

  31. Newspapers are already dead by Animats · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Exercise: buy a newspaper and throw out all the sections that are 100% marketing. Entire sections, like Autos, Real Estate, and Wine (Wine?) go into the dumpster. The classified sections can go; that's all on-line, and on line it's searchable.

    Of what's left, over half will still be pages that are all advertising. Throw out those pages. About 15-20% of the original pages will be left.

    Then throw out the pages than only have stories you already saw on Google News. Throw out the stories that came from PR Newswire. Maybe 2 to 3% of the pages will be left. That's the "content". The whole paper could probably be condensed down to about six pages. In many cities, less.

    Today's newspapers make spam look like an efficient data transmission medium.

    1. Re:Newspapers are already dead by value_added · · Score: 1

      Exercise: buy a newspaper and throw out all the sections that are 100% marketing. Entire sections, like Autos, Real Estate, and Wine (Wine?) go into the dumpster. The classified sections can go; that's all on-line, and on line it's searchable...Of what's left, over half will still be pages that are all advertising.

      You do know you've described my daily newspaper reading habit? LOL. Mind you that works well for certain papers only. For the LA Times (or sundry local papers), most definitely. For the WSJ, NY Times, and specialty papers, for example, it doesn't really apply.

      Today's newspapers make spam look like an efficient data transmission medium.

      As does the postal service. I keep a small garbage can right beside my mailbox and go through a routine similar to what you've described for newspapers. Though to be fair, there was a time not so long ago when newspapers weren't publically owned (read "the owners were perfectly happy with stable returns"), and adverts weren't such a problem.

  32. For newspapers to survive... by bigbigbison · · Score: 1

    For newspapers to survive they need to quit catering to senior citizens. According to a study from the Pew Research Center the only group of people that had a majority of respondents say they would personally care if their local newspaper disappeared were people over the age of 65

    Newspapers need to eliminate the things that other mass media do better. Why do newspapers have sports sections? I can see reporting high school sports for some local papers but why do they cover the professional sports? If someone really cares about yesterday's game wouldn't they either watch it, watch Sportscenter, or look up the results online? Why do they report yesterday's national news when you have 3 (4 if you count Headline News) 24 hour news channels and network news and local television news? Why are there horoscopes and comic strips that haven't been entertaining since the 70s? (of course in most cases horoscopes are little more than filler for the ads on the page)

    Focus on things they do better: local news that isn't covered by local television.

    --
    http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
    1. Re:For newspapers to survive... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      For newspapers to survive they need to quit catering to senior citizens. According to a study from the Pew Research Center the only group of people that had a majority of respondents say they would personally care if their local newspaper disappeared were people over the age of 65 Talk about a dying demographic ... and this group also happens to be the ones that need an eReader the most, so they can blow up the font size.

      Print still works for books (for hw much longer ... who knows), but not for news.

  33. no reason for them to charge more than $50. by wiredog · · Score: 1

    Other than the cost of parts being around $200 per unit.

    1. Re:no reason for them to charge more than $50. by wonkavader · · Score: 1

      They spend more like $300 a year on printing the paper for a $20 subscription. They already take a bath on every subscriber they need to print the paper for. That's why these are intended to save the industry -- they reduce costs. Your subscription doesn't pay for the paper, ads do. There's no reason a longtime subscriber should pay anything for such a device. If it's $200 to make (I suspect it will be more) and they give it to you and stop printing your paper, they just MADE $100 bucks.

      So $50 to people who might not actually read the paper and free to those they KNOW read it? Those sound like pretty good numbers to me.

  34. Content not wires by Alomex · · Score: 1

    I picked up a foreign newspaper in one of my travels. Fully 50% of the articles were op-ed pieces written by experts on the subject. I left it in the coffee room at work and many weeks later people were still reading it with interest. Contrast this with your average daily, filled up with newswire reports, which no one wants to read the day after (as Mark Twain said "there is nothing older than yesterday's newspaper").

    The "Dailies" are on the way out. Insightful, investigative journalism (a la NYT, Guardian, Le Monde) is here to stay.

  35. It wont matter since they wont work together by grapeape · · Score: 1

    While the idea of replacing traditional newspaper with an ereader is a good idea, the news conglomerates themselves will assure its failure. Scrips, Tribune, Gannet, etc will simply not let go of the desire for control long enough to agree on a universal reader. The result will be a half dozen readers, most likley not subsidized and all likely locked out from repurposing.

    A large portion of print media's market are those that are still afraid of technology, convincing them to use "magic paper" is going to be an uphill battle without the cost of a reader, explaining that they are going to have to pay an upfront cost of several hundred dollars in addition to a subscription fee just isnt going to fly. For the rest of us, many dont feel the need to pay for yesterdays news anyway so there is little incentive beyond the cool gadget.

    The days of the newspaper are numbered but after a century of empire building, I have my doubts that most will have the intestinal fortitude to let go of enough to control to work together and actually save each other.

  36. Old News! by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1
    We tried this before and it failed!

    "It takes over two hours to receive the entire text of the newspaper over the phone, and with an hourly use charge of five dollars, the new 'telepaper' won't be much competition for the twenty cent street edition"

    --
    Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
  37. Distribution isn't the problem by cdrguru · · Score: 1

    Everyone here seems to focus on distribution as a huge cost. It isn't, in relative terms. Certainly for books the action of printing a book and shipping it is cheap - far, far cheaper than the authoring and editorial process. If the objective is to open the floodgates to bring in crap, that is simple. Producing quality books isn't cheap and the costs of quality far outweigh the costs of printing.

    I don't have hard numbers, but however many millions it costs to print a newspaper, I am sure the salaries of the people involved in producing a quality newspaper far exceed that of merely printing it. Sure, it might save 10% of the costs in trying to deliver it digitally. But it isn't the most significant oost there is in the newspaper business.

    Similarly, if all you want is recycled crap, it would be easy to distribute the output of bloggers bloviating. Cheap, too. But that's not the point.

    This idea also ignores the relatively huge problems with digital distribution. Let's say you used the Kindle platform with wireless connectivity. Great - people would not have to "dock" it somehow to pick up the latest edition. But, if you provided a Kindle to every subscriber to a newspaper in New York or Chicago could the cellular infrstructure handle rolling out the morning paper? I have my doubts. And if it took all morning to do this distribution, you have pretty much lost the point of the "morning paper".

    No, I don't think digital delivery is any real solution at all.

  38. Saving a dead business model; Story at 11 by dr_wheel · · Score: 1

    Information wants to be free. Sure, you may think it's a silly cliche, but the message holds true.

    So why would I pay for something that is readily available for free? The internet already provides me with an insurmountable amount of information on a daily basis... more information than I can ever recall reading in a week's worth of newspapers!

    Digital readers will neither save or condemn the newspapers; it's up to the newspapers to save themselves. Learn a lesson from the RIAA. Your business model has changed. Adapt or die.

    1. Re:Saving a dead business model; Story at 11 by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

      So why would I pay for something that is readily available for free? The internet already provides me with an insurmountable amount of information on a daily basis... more information than I can ever recall reading in a week's worth of newspapers!

      The question is, how much of the information you get from the Internet is produced by journalists? And when they're making minimum wage to flip burgers, where else will you get that information?

      I'm not saying you have to pay for news on the Internet -- but sooner or later, you will find that you're getting what you're paying for. It'll be unfortunate, but there it is.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  39. Reader software is a stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is already a standard for reading online publications. It is called HTML/HTTP. Anyone pushing an alternative 'standard' will obviously face an impossible task, particularly if they are selling custom hardware to read content. It would be even more impossible, if the hardware were not free to the end user (like cable TV boxes). Hardware suitable for reading printed content will have to be portable, have a good screen with over 1000 vertical pixels, and several days of battery life. Media companies are going to need some serious funding to get this kind of scheme going.
    In my opinion, content shall remain free.
    Attempts to monetise existing online content will only backfire spectacularly.

  40. The gnomes have it by paiute · · Score: 1

    1. Give electronic reading devices to all your subscribers.
    2. Other content producers figure out how to feed the device.
    3. Subscribers start to read news on reader from alternate, free sources.
    4. Subscribers cancel subscriptions.
    5. What, no profit?

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    1. Re:The gnomes have it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of a Babylon 5 episode - They still used paper, but they choose what topics to read...

      Divided Loyalties
      [At a Universe Today vendor station, Delenn haughtily dismisses humans' fascination with the press.]
      Delenn: Back home, when there is something you need to know, you are told just what you require and no more.
      . . .
      Delenn: ... Minbari respect the privacy of others by not prying into their affairs. To express undue curiosity--
      Newsvendor Computer: Unable to insert "Eye on Minbari" section. Do you wish to accept edition anyway?
      Delenn: Uh... yes, yes I do.
      John Sheridan: "Eye on Minbari"?
      Delenn: It is good to know what your people are thinking and saying about my people. And, uh...[grins] I often learn things about my own world before I'm told "what I need to know and no more".

  41. +5 funny by WebCowboy · · Score: 1

    If these come out at $50, come with a library of great books (all free from Gutenberg et al.), and allow you to put whatever you like on them in some open format which the FOSS community can create converters for, why wouldn't it blow the iPOD sales records out of the water?

    Just about fell out of my chair when I read that one. Very witty, subtle sense of humour you have there, so much so you've been modded "informative".

    I'll laugh almost as hard when newspapers start going into receivership after sinking millions in borrowed funds into the development of an overpriced, single-purpose reader to serve DRM-encumbered, proprietary-formatted content to its readers, followed by more millions on RIAA-style litigation to suppress hacker communities who try to jailbreak the devices.

    Despite the fact you've put out a credible way to implement such a solution successfully, you can count on newspaper chains will cock it up so badly that their newspaper readers will make the cue:cat look like a raging success.

  42. No, only the mobile phones can save them. by master_p · · Score: 1

    News articles are mostly text and most of us have our mobiles with us most of the time. It only makes sense to read the news in our mobile phones.

  43. Answer by AceJohnny · · Score: 1

    No.

    (long story short: Internet killed newspapers like Gutenberg's press killed Bible monopoly by the Church, newspapers just don't know it yet)

    --
    Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
  44. My requirements by davidwr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1) lightweight
    2) flexible - as flexible as paper
    3) cheap
    4) no vendor lockin

    I'd be happy to go to an office supply store and buy a foldable broadsheet-size e-paper reader then download the same newspaper I get at home. I wouldn't pay twice for the same subscription, but I might pay for a subscription I wouldn't otherwise pay for if the content was specialized enough.

    For newspapers, specialized content includes local content not covered by other media including other local media, editorials and opinions, and in certain cases, advertisements, such as those in the Sunday supplement. Many of the latter are now online though.

    Newspapers need to get it through their head that they are in the news- and opinion-delivery business, and that print is just one of many methods of delivering content.

    They also need to get it through their head that if another vendor provides essentially the same information, or even a large subset of it, with no cost and no annoyance, he will be strongly favored over a provider that charges money or uses annoyances. Different readers consider different things annoying, but some annoyances include being on paper, not being on paper, being on paper of the "wrong" size, requiring a screen or window of the "wrong" size, browser incompatibilities, having ads, having animated ads, using active content on a web page, using tracking cookies, requiring a login, not allowing comments, etc. etc.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  45. Why a Digital Reader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have plenty of existing devices already, why do we need another one to do something like this?
    How does giving an expensive device a single purpose 'better' than reading it on a computer or existing portable devices of that nature? Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on infrastructure and standards which can be accessible to any compatible device?

  46. The problem is not technical by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

    Trying to use technology to solve a non-technical problem?

    Hey, newspapers: Stop lying to your readers, stop trying to brainwash the public according to the tastes of the big corporations that own you. Get back to being journalists.

    Examples from my country: Almost all the articles in newspapers show the EU Constitution as being the best thing since sliced bread, yet polls show that most people reject it vehemently. Other examples: the invasion of Iraq, the free market. If you come from another country, reading the opinions in the newspapers will give you the exact opposite impression about the public opinion on some subject.

    In these situations, the attempt to manipulate the public is so blatant that I hate the idea of wasting my money in a newspaper. And TV is even worse.

    What's the use of having so many (pseudo) different newspapers, TV and radio stations? It seems like behind all of them it's the same bunch of monkeys trying to feed you the exact same bullshit with slight variations.

    1. Re:The problem is not technical by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      I agree with the title of your post but not with the rest of it. :-P

      At least where I live and have lived within Europe so far (3 different countries), the papers that lie the most sell the most...e.g. yellow press tabloids like the German Bild Zeitung.

      My personal, selfish advice to the publishing companies: If you make a newspaper with one half of the traditional political news of a contemporary good newspaper and another half with news about science, the Internet, software & hardware (including games), reviews & tests of new products, and write all of this in a way that doesn't assume that the reader is an idiot, people will buy it. Of course, I'm speaking in favor of my own interests here, but I'm pretty sure that plenty of other people think the same way.

      At least on ./ hehehe...

    2. Re:The problem is not technical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the papers that lie the most sell the most...e.g. yellow press tabloids like the German Bild Zeitung.

      Absolutely right. The problem is that if all newspapers do the same, it's a race to the bottom. People will buy just one of them anyway (the one everyone reads) and the others won't be profitable but suck equally.

      If media was about journalism and not profit there could be a diversity of tendencies in the press that reflected the tendencies of the society. Instead, the newspapers all look alike. It seems they all get the same information from the same Big Brother and just present it to us with slight differences between them. There's no way this is economically sustainable.

  47. No. When I could not tell an opinion article by Shivetya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    from a news story I gave up. The last election made it even more pathetic. Too many of today's newspapers are nothing more than tabloids. They would have been laughed out of the industry thirty years ago.

    So no, no reader is going to fix newspapers. Far too many of these papers are losing subscribers because the paper's political view is no where near in line with those who used to pay for them. Worse too many of these papers then call those people who don't subscribe over differences of opinion "ignorant" and wonder why that doesn't help.

    Then again my experience is mostly with the AJC... though my buddy in LA says it is no different there.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  48. Newspapers to go behind paywall by David+Gerard · · Score: 1

    Hearst newspapers will be holding back content from their papers' free websites, instead charging for some digital news and information. "We are fully confident that both readers and Google will come to the party and give us money," said Hearst president Steven Swartz, "and not just laugh and ignore us henceforth."

    Newspapers plan to fight back against the avaricious parasitism of Google in telling people where to find content the newspapers had put up on the Web for free with a new e-book reader, a variant on the Amazon Kindle. "For only $300, readers can read DRM-locked down versions of our content that they're paying a subscription for on top. We can't see how this could possibly fail to work."

    Murdoch's Wall Street Journal has been notably successful in selling valuable original financial reporting that cannot be obtained anywhere else. "So there's no reason people won't pay for recycled Associated Press feeds, corporate-backed op-eds, funny cat stories and pretence at holding the government's feet to the fire."

    Hearst also advocates new advertising and revenue models. "The technical press on the Web shows the way forward: blatant and obvious gutter-slut crack-whoredom. Subtlety doesn't pay the bills any more — we must enthusiastically welcome the corporate cock into our throats. Also, I'd like to mention that everyone should use the Windows 7 beta. HLAGH HLAGH HLAGH," added Mr Swartz, wiping off his chin.

    --
    http://rocknerd.co.uk
  49. Then get a tablet PC by ThrowAwaySociety · · Score: 1

    At that price, they're competing directly with full tablet PCs.

    (For example: an HP tx2z with 2GB of memory is $900 right now after rebate. It weighs under 5 lbs.)

    Granted, the iRex probably has some size/weight and battery life advantages, but it's dramatically less versatile than a full-featured computer. Unless they can drop the price significantly, I don't forsee many ebook devices at that size.

    1. Re:Then get a tablet PC by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      As I noted in another comment:

      The whole point of getting a reader (for me, at least), is the e-ink display. I have a laptop I can read PDFs on. I hate it. It's tiring to read any more than about 20 pages of a PDF on-screen.

      When I first saw an e-ink display, I actually thought it was a non-working display model, because it looked too good to be true. High contrast, fairly crisp text, no glare, can be read in sunlight... you can't get that on a tablet PC.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    2. Re:Then get a tablet PC by winwar · · Score: 1

      "High contrast, fairly crisp text, no glare, can be read in sunlight... you can't get that on a tablet PC."

      I believe you can. It won't be cheap-you'll need to look to the professional level products-toughbooks for instance.

  50. Re: Tree Editions by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 3, Informative

    I like my little library inprint edition. It nicely displays color and utility on my shelf.

    But newspapers are a print disaster. Floppy, yucky layouts full of miscellanea on skip-pages, sorted by day instead of topic....Then you get to throw out a metric ton each month.

    I'd seriously consider one of those readers if it kept all the dailies on tap so if you wanted to review your notes you could turn back to October 2004.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  51. Re: Book (Not-Equal) Newspaper by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Books present a coherent argument.

    Newspapers would be WAY faster if you clicked a link "to read more" rather than following from A3 to C7.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  52. Is it New Media, or somthing else? by Publikwerks · · Score: 1

    I don't know if having a kindle like device would help. I think Newspapers have undercut themselves by offering their content on the web. I know a big reason I don't have a subscription is that I get my news on the web. But alot of the time, it's from a newspaper's website. So it's not so much that the news is poorly written or covered, but that it is farm more convient and free to get it online. While they must have seen the web as a great way to get exposure, it is replacing their print medium and costing them sales. I mean, why buy a kindle like device, when I can get the same stuff on an iphone for free.

  53. Economy and freelancers by zogger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With people losing jobs left and right, maybe you wouldn't need as many permanent reporters if you offered to pay a cheap but reasonable sum for freelancer submissions. I mean heck, look how many people want to biog just because it is fun for them, something to do. Sweeten the pot a little with some cash, who knows... Identify what you want by subject and give some guidelines in advance, etc. I guess you'd have to wade through a lot of crap at first to see who did quality work or not and was reliable so you could count on them, but perhaps that might be a way to cut costs but still have good content. And like you said, that would be a way to reduce office space requirements as well if they just emailed the copy to you. I know every local community has folks who go to just about every local sporting event, other people are court junkies, just go there to watch, other folks love going to the county commission meetings, etc.

    Just perhaps. I was just thinking about it, going back to the onions on belts days, how many of us wrote and gave it away free to the "alternative" press back then, just because we were passionate about the subject (usually politics and stuff, that's what I did, but I remember a lot of the artsy fartsy crowd did it as well, covering the local scene, the concerts and local theater and movie reviews and so on).

  54. Pink Reader? by Strained+Brain · · Score: 1

    Unless the reader for the Financial Times is pink, without a color display, they would lose some of their uniqueness. On the upside at least they might be able to attract that new audience of teen girls they've been longing to acquire. In addition to some of the other problems mentioned, I like the paper format, as we don't read all the same sections in my house. I would hate to have to wait for the reader to be able to get my hands on the sports section, or any other section that she had already viewed.

  55. Not yet by technomom · · Score: 1

    Paper beats electronic readers for the simple reason that it's cheap. People can stick a paperback in their pocket, read in the tub (or if you're George Costanzo, on the toilet), or on the beach without worrying about frying a $300 appliance.

  56. Hype machine dialed to 11 by Graymalkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This whole idea begs the question of whether or not newspapers actually need "saving". The Kindle is not going to save large newspapers anymore than their websites will save them. What needs to change is not so much the delivery format but the way newspapers are run. Newspapers and news entities cannot effectively run as for-profit organizations or at the very least not as publicly traded for-profit organizations. The demand for stock price returns have led to newsroom cuts, consolidations, and expansions into markets newspapers shouldn't really be in. Newspapers either became or got swallowed up by "media companies" and now are part of television, radio, newspapers, magazine, and sometimes internet media conglomerates. We're all the worse for it because in order to drive a profit newspapers have increased column inches for advertising and reduced column inches for actual articles. They've also taken to filling space with wire articles instead of having a decent sized newsroom of their own. Wire services in and of themselves are useful entities, especially for smaller papers but we've moved into an age where people can log onto Google News and read wire service articles, newspapers don't need to waste ink printing them.

    What will save newspapers the media conglomerates failing under their own weight and breaking back up. Newspapers will end up becoming more format neutral news organizations. They'll start providing news articles to specialized providers instead of running the whole stack themselves. A newsroom will write the stories and pass them off to Amazon to load on the Kindle, to Audible to make into an audiobook, to their website, and to a printer that will put the words to paper for people that still want (or need) a physical version of the news. The LA Times newspaper (for example) however will probably go away. It will end up being the "News and other work from the LA region" paper. A dedicated publishing group will pick up stories from the LA Times newsroom, advertisers, and possibly local blogs, and print and distribute them. The LA Times newsroom will no longer have to worry about the printer as long as their stories are submitted on time, advertisers can still get local ads out to people, and everyone will still be able to get the news that is important to them.

    The main difference between that future and today will be the newsroom and the printer will not be owned and operated by the same company. More newsrooms will likely end up privatized or run as community owned entities similar to the St.Petersburg Times. News is a difficult thing to make profitable as it is a service in the public interest. If existing news organizations don't reorganize they will fail and other organizations with more streamlined processes and better management will eventually fill the void. A newspaper might fail but the journalists that love their work will keep doing it in one way or another.

    --
    I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
  57. open format like epub by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As someone who worked on the kindle project for Tribune I would like to add that one of the 'features' of the kindle, and something that the execs were spending a lot of time on, was to ability to spike a story if they were contacted by someones lawyer - so the story would disappear altogether for anyone downloading after the spike. So for the exec team the kindle represents a way to remove/censor a paper after publication, a first for the news paper industry.

    Also the kindle I worked on ran linux, had a /jpg directory, gps, wifi and much more that were all in various states of implementation.

    The execs don't how to integrate this technology into their business model quickly because at every turn there was some legal issue they would be stumbling over.

    I think the kindle is a bit immature and color is needed along with an open format like epub otherwise the kindle will die.

    This completes my 'book' report. The end.

  58. Meet the new "electronic typewriter" by WebCowboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Mass media corporations and agencies that can adapt to the changes that we are and will be experiencing, will continue to be in business.

    More than likely none of them will exist in any form we recognise today. E-reader devices--even relatively successful ones like the Kindle--are stopgap measures that only serve to prolong an obsolete business model in the face of new technology. They are this generation's version of the electronic typewriter.

    Personal computers became practical options for a large-enough market to achieve critical mass in the 1970s, yet typewriter companies soldiered on for near around two decades trying to prop up their obsolete concept of a typewriter by adding the technology of computers without actually admitting defeat and MAKING computers. Thus, the introduction of electronic typewriters, and soon after dedicated word processors, in the face of a rapidly expanding personal computer market.

    Such devices were to be the savior of the industry. Word processing was the first "killer app" and these devices fit the bill nicely and were easier to use than general purpose computers. Though computers could be bought at comparable prices, you had to add an expensive letter-quality printer to get the same kind of hard copy. There was no concern about interoperability or open standards because the competing computers lacked much of that as well, and there was no publicly-accessible internet either.

    Problem is, the typewriter companies didn't "get" computers, even while at the same time making microprocessor-based, single-purpose computers themselves. PC technology continued apace, and the PC industry consolidated around a small number of interoperable, standard platforms. Spreadsheets and databases became more important as "killer apps" and the internet made networking an essential.

    Typewriter companies COULD have evolved their product offerings into open-architecture, general-purpose computers and not only survived, but thrived, but how many big typewriter manufacturers to YOU know of that actually DID that and DID survive? Very few come to my mind: IBM for one, and they only "got it" because they were already a computer company too with their mainframe offerings. Commodore got it as well--Tramiel was a visionary, perhaps too far ahead of his time, when he embraced the PET and pushed for low cost and friendliness with the VIC20 and C64.

    However, even those who "got it" didn't fully "get it". Commodore didn't seem to figure out the value of interoperability even within their own product line! They couldn't come up with a proper successor to the C64 on their own and could only hang on by purchasing Amiga--which was again completely incompatible ans again acieved ALL its success because of its technical merits and despite the follies of its marketers. IBM saw massive success with their original 5150, 5160 and 5170 models (aka PC, XT and AT), and even saw fit to maintain compatibility. However like Commodore they lacked a proper successor after the 5170 and were stuck in the habit of proprietary offerings, thus the disastrous foray into the MCA bus architecture in an effort to lock-in customers like in the old mainframe days. As a result, Commodore went extinct completely and IBM doesn't make personal computers at all any more.

    It'll be the same with media companies over the next 20 years. If the names survive they'll not be the same companies--News Corp. of 2030 will be no more related to News Corp. of today than Atari of today is related to the Atari of 1989. Same goes for television networks, movie studios, record companies and radio stations. True, they are often all divisions of the same big media conglomerate, but that's the point--they are DIVISIONS. They don't "get" that whether it be in newsprint, on TV, on the radio or in a web page, the content is ALL THE SAME--it all gets made into bits, stuffed into IP packets and pushed into wires or over the air at some point, or it easily can be.

    The future means a s

    1. Re:Meet the new "electronic typewriter" by MBCook · · Score: 1

      Tramiel didn't get it, he was in the right place at the right time with a specific idea. I recently finished reading On The Edge, a book all about Commodore (warning: ref link, since I copied it off my site).

      Basically Tramiel was doing what he did in the calculator business, the one thing he always did: he pushed for lower prices. This was over the objections of the engineers and such.

      With the PET and C64 it was a huge hit. The market wanted something like that.

      Tramiel also decided to QUADRUPLE the RAM in the C64, which really helped it.

      But later he wanted to compete with Sinclair and have a sub $100 computer. He didn't care about higher end computers, he was still selling calculators (price is everything). This was when the market wanted an improved C64. He didn't get it, he just wanted something cheaper still. Marketing didn't even want to touch some of their products (Vic20?) because they were afraid they'd upset their success.

      When computers became more common and people started having a good investment in software (instead of just one program or writing their own BASIC stuff), people wanted backwards compatibility instead of having to throw away their $750 software investment. But that didn't fit with the "make a cheaper computer again" philosophy. Calculators didn't have that kind of issue, each one was a stand alone sale. Computers stopped working like that, and Tramiel didn't get it.

      It was a REALLY good book if you are interested in this kind of stuff. How Commodore came up, how some people continually made decisions that basically sunk the company (the CFO, who's name escapes me). How they got lucky, how they nearly messed it up, how they lost it, how they almost got it back. A great story.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  59. Why your newspapers and magazines keep shrinking.. by wiggles · · Score: 1

    Magazines and newspapers have a specific content-to-ad ratio set by the publisher. The amount of ads they sell determines how thick or thin the publication will be. Here's an example:

    A newspaper publisher sets his content-to-ad ratio at 50% (exactly half ads / half content). If he sells twenty pages worth of ads, he will have twenty pages worth of content, for a total of forty pages. If he sells two more pages of ads, then he will add two pages of content.

    The reason your paper keeps getting thinner is because fewer people are making ad buys. The fewer the ads, the fewer the articles.

    That being said, there are a few content pages that are immune to a loss of advertising space -- things like the comics page, the sports scores, stock market reports, etc. Aside from those, however, everything else is getting cut.

  60. Old Folks who read papers are screwed by mikechey · · Score: 0

    My grandma can't even change her batteries when her caller id is broken. There is no way that she is going to be able to work a digital reader. Old people are the ones that are really hurting from papers going digital because they relied on the paper and often read it cover to cover with their surplus amount of free time.

  61. ebooks: less functionality for more money by bugi · · Score: 1

    Why is it that I pay more for a book on kindle than for a book on paper?

    What do I get for the increased price of an ebook? A paper book, I can give to a friend or trade at a used book store. I can't do that with an e-book. I can throw a paper book; I've learned better than to do that with an ebook. I can buy paper books anonymously, from whomever, and change vendors when they piss me off or get nosey. Ebooks are tied to a specific vendor, who has not demonstrated trustworthiness.

    It's as though I pay more to rent an ebook than I would to just outright buy a paper book. Ebooks cost less to produce and have less functionality. They expect me to fall for that?

  62. Mod parent up by jbengt · · Score: 2, Funny

    My mod points ran out yesterday.

  63. Obsolete business model by mi · · Score: 1

    Newspapers operate on an outlived business model. Nothing can change this fact, and nothing short of government sponsorship (more unconstitutional than use of school vouchers at parochial schools) can keep the newspapers afloat.

    Internet has made them obsolete — we now have means of delivering information directly from the reporter to reader. Yes, a quality editor used to add value, but that's not why their profession appeared — they were to decide, whose writings get printed in the limited space, that newspapers had. We, the readers, can now visit blogs of different people without them having to reside under the same roof (or even agree with each other).

    With e-readers evolving, however, even the books may become obsolete soon — and we might stop felling as many trees as we currently do.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  64. Re:It's the iPhone, Palm Pre, and Blackberry stupi by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

    When Amazon came out with the Kindle reader for the the iPhone/iPod Touch I tried it out. Guess what it is wonderful.

    ...except that you can't subscribe to periodicals with it. I know that Amazon doesn't want to undercut their Kindle sales, but without those subscriptions their iPhone app is just another unexciting reader. I deleted it and installed Stanza with much success; it does a better job as an actual reader IMHO.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  65. Re:It's the iPhone, Palm Pre, and Blackberry stupi by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    That IMHO is a bad choice on Amazons part.
    eReaders will come down in cost but SmartPhones really are every where. I do have the New York Times on my iPod Touch already. I still feel that newspapers are a better match to a smart phone than an eReader if for no other reason than cost. I might add Stanza to my iPod but getting my Kindle books on my Touch is useful for me.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  66. Re:No. When I could not tell an opinion article by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    So no, no reader is going to fix newspapers. Far too many of these papers are losing subscribers because the paper's political view is no where near in line with those who used to pay for them.

    Actually, in the case of the Los Angeles Times, I know people who pretty much agree with the paper's editorial slant, but even they lost patience with that slant appearing in the front page as news.

  67. Old News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People don't read newspapers for news anymore; they read them for old news -- stuff that happened yesterday.

    For new news, there's radio, TV and the internet. That fact alone puts newspapers at a competitive disadvantage in doing what they purport to do: give people news.

    Admittedly, people used to read (and buy) newspapers for other purposes too: to get coupons, read about retail sales offers, post classified ads to sell or buy items or real estate, read comics, play puzzles, follow sports teams, follow politics, read op-eds. But most of those other purposes are better served by the internet: coupons are freely available, Craigslist and eBay can sell your stuff (or let you buy someone else's stuff), sports teams and leagues have their own websites (in addition to ESPN or other specialty sites), political sites abound, etc.

    And so long as the TV news outlets want viewers' eyes, they'll keep their own news available on the internet too, which includes local news for metropolitan areas.

    The conclusion seems self-evident: newspapers are an obsolete species of information distribution and are being out-competed into extinction. You can think about and debate ways to price and deliver buggywhips better, but if your customers simply don't need buggywhips anymore, it's time to close up shop.

  68. Crossword puzzle ... by frogzilla · · Score: 1

    One of the highlights of the paper for my wife is the crossword which she tears out and carries around. How does she do that on an epaper device? I guess the display will be able to connect to our printer at home. Seems silly but there are a lot of people who would be frustrated by this simple extra step.

  69. this is the problem now by kpainter · · Score: 1

    with screens roughly the size of a standard sheet of paper to present much of the editorial and advertising content of traditional periodicals

    Most of the newspapers around where I live have mostly ads and for content, they have a lot of crap from the AP. I can read that online now for free. There is very little local news that is worth reading. Lots of fluff. I have a hard time believing that a change in the delivery mechanism will turn around their declining subscription rates. They need to make the content worth reading.

  70. Their "mobile" versions fail by AdamD1 · · Score: 1

    I've been reading the news from seven or eight newspapers using one or another form of software for my Palm device since 1995 (no joke), and now that I'm moving to a blackberry (soon) I'm looking for something similar to do this. I much prefer reading these editions, and it often means I can grab more recent news at work for my transit commute home.

    The problem is: none of the major papers ever do any QA on their "mobile" editions. The BBC news site is now nearly completely unreadable. You get the headline, and a teaser, but the link leads either to a broken page or a page featuring only a single paragraph of most stories. The New York Times suffers from similar broken links. The CBC's mobile site no longer loads in anything but a cellphone browser.

    If they can't get that right (and I agree: the "mobile" version of most sites is not likely to be a high traffic section) what makes them think anyone will trust them to get this setup out the door smoothly?

    It would be trivial to properly QA their existing mobile / low fi versions and promote that as another convenient way to read the news. Instead they abandoned it.

    ad

    --
    Because I can! [Brainrub.com]
  71. When I look at pictures of this device.. by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    ..my first thought is that I don't really want one (i.e. I wouldn't pay much) but at the same time I can appreciate that it's novel and kind of neat. (Just like Amazon's thing.)

    But even if I were to warm to it enough that I'd pay a few hundred bucks: I don't want this as some kind of weirdo dedicated "reader." If I buy some cool new ultralight display thingie, I want that to be my new portable computer, and use it to see web pages and vim in addition to their PDFs.

    Overspecialization is so inefficient that it just feels lame. That why a phone isn't just a phone anymore: it's a PDA and camera and music player too. Once you've got computing power and computer-like capabilities, it's a computer. A general-purpose personal computer. Force it to not be general-purpose, and it becomes so distastefully and conspicuously lame, that I just can't imagine buying it.

    It's one of those crippled things that I might take for free like a Cuecat, but only because I want to subvert it.

    As for the newspapers, that's a really easy question: a device like this won't help at all. It might be part of an overall solution that makes money, but then once you think up that solution, take away this weird dedicated-reader hardware and you'll have something that works even better, because this device (as is) is all cost with no benefit. It's only a way to lose.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  72. Hacked Kindle = Hacked Mobipocket by krischik · · Score: 1

    Takes about ten seconds with a command line program to make them compatible though.

    If you live in a country where this is allowed.

    But you are pointing out some interestingt detail here: The same "command line" is used to hack Kindle and Mobipocket files. And once they are hacked they are identical.

    There is no technical reason why Amazon created a new format for Kindle. There are almost the same. The Kindle format only exist to create a seperate closed market for Kindle.

    And while this works in the States - International Users are rather pissed of by now. So are current Mobipocket user [1] - most of which see true Amazons masterplan.

    But actualy this would be worth an own /. article.

    Martin

    [1] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1221441&cid=27826617