How To Help a Friend With an MMO Addiction?

sammydee writes "I have a friend who is addicted to an MMO (Pirates of the Burning Sea). On a typical day, he will wake up around 9am, browse the forums for a bit, then go online and stay online all day, playing until about 3am the following morning, taking only toilet breaks and stopping to eat ready-meals. While the rest of the house works hard revising for exams, this friend will be playing his MMO instead. Now, I am pretty confident that this comprises an unhealthy addiction; unfortunately, I have no idea what to do about it. Any attempt to physically prevent him from playing the game would most likely result in an outburst of anger and possibly physical violence. Attempts at telling him he has a problem have been met with derision and angry retorts. Slashdotters, what would you do to help out a friend in this situation? Perhaps you are a reformed addict yourself — if so, how did you break out of the habit? Or maybe I should just leave well enough alone and allow him to continue? Any thoughts are gratefully received."

Comments

It's Called S.E.X

[alain94040]

Get him a girlfriend.

That's pretty much the only solution.

Save a geek: help me develop the Geek Saver, the iPhone app that makes dating for geeks a breeze!

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[sreid]

Unless this was posted by the girlfriend

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Anonymous Coward]

Girlfriend?!? Get him a hooker instead!

A hooker will see the money and perform. A girlfriend will want to evaluate his character, tell her friends, make him want to go out on dates and shit like that... and if all is good, will "perform".

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[GF678]

Absolutely agree with this - sex is the remedy. Make the point that the guy isn't getting any and you are (hopefully), and it'll probably hurt enough to get him to start thinking about what he's missing out on by spending all his time playing Pirates.

Sex is an integral part of almost all humans, and we need it. Use this to your advantage.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Shakrai]

Unless this was posted by the girlfriend

Or his "girlfriend" is someone he met on the MMO. Do the keys on his keyboard stick?

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[iamhassi]

"Unless this was posted by the girlfriend"

Answer's still the same: get him a girlfriend (a different one, obviously).

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Bigjeff5]

Damn... the potentional for real life social interaction with ladies was all it took for me. Were my standards too low? You mean I could have gotten sex out of it? Damn...

Seriously though, you need to start going out, and often, to meet up with ladies in order to fix this. Since he won't be going with you, you don't have to be successful at all at meeting up with the ladies, just make sure he knows your intended goal every time you go out, be sure to have adventures, and be sure to talk about them non-stop around him.

At first, you should neglect to invite him, but be sure to have exchanges like "Should we invite Jim?" "Nah, he'll just say no and stay home to play his stupid game" within earshot of him. Then a few weeks later, actually ask him to go with you. By then he will probably have gotten jealous, and just might say yes. If so, and you can actually get him to have real-life physical relations with a lady - and I'm talking waaaay less than sex here - he'll probably lose interest in the game. Real life will be more exciting. ;)

On another note, is POTBC any good? I haven't played a steady MMO since I quit SW Galaxies, but I always wanted to play that one...

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Goldberg's Pants]

I think people should mind their own bloody business personally. It's not like he's poisoning his body with drugs or alcohol or hurting other people with his "addiction".

How to help a friend? Leave them the hell alone to live their life how they want and stop being so bloody pretentious in thinking this person needs to be "saved".

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Joebert]

We tried this once.
The hooker took one look at us, laughed, and walked out the door with our money.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Lord Juan]

Unless this was posted by the girlfriend

~ Double check the address bar ~

I really don't think so.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[DoofusOfDeath]

Sex is an integral part of almost all humans, and we need it. Use this to your advantage.

If my male housemate ever try this, all they'd accomplish is me backed into a corner, one hand on an my revolver, half looking at them and half looking at my computer screen.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Ethanol-fueled]

In that case we shouldn't worry, he'll kick his addiction once he discovers that his "girlfriend", the Undead Warlock named Zombiewitch, is really a 42 year-old balding fat guy from Cleveland.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Shakrai]

The hooker took one look at us, laughed, and walked out the door with our money.

You gave her the money before the services were rendered? Amateur.....

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[MaskedSlacker]

You need to hire better hookers.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Joebert]

Yeah of course, she wouldn't accept an IOU.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[DriedClexler]

And women will be receptive to a random MMO junkie because _______?

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Rip Dick]

A girlfriend will want to evaluate his character, tell her friends, make him want to go out on dates and shit like that... and if all is good, will "perform".

You're doing it wrong.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[jhfry]

Thats what did it for me. 80+ hrs per week on EQ, while in the USAF...

Since getting clean, I can't get into any games anymore... I'd imagine it's like getting clean from crack, nothing will ever be good enough to replace it. You try to give it a chance but you can't really commit enough to get really into it.

My wife bought me Fallout 3 for Christmas and I haven't even taken the cellophane off yet... though I fully expect to love the game like I loved the other two, I know how it will play out. I will not see my family for a weekend, go back to work on Monday and never play it again because I realize that it's just a game and can't commit to it.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Xtravar]

This is a house mate. I'm assuming they had a reason for rooming together in the first place. Oh that's right, it's called friendship. And if your friend is addicted to something, then the friendship dissolves.

Losing a friend to game is no different than losing a friend to any other addiction. If they're gone, they're gone until they return to their senses.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[cyn1c77]

And women will be receptive to a random MMO junkie because _______?

Because they are good at performing repetitive motions with their fingers AND they can endure doing the same boring tasks week after week: "Tell me how your day was, honey?"

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[mysidia]

Sounds like a way to get your ass kicked and to permanently lose a "friend", or worse. The effect that has may not be what you intended, and could easily be worse than the "addiction" you thought existed.

A friend is not a person who has a right to destroy your stuff, just because they feel you're doing something with the stuff that they would consider unhealthy or unnatural.

Anyone who would contemplate such treachery is not a friend.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Mr Stubby]

Well i know your comment was meant in jest but i dont know about that, I too have a cousin terribly addicted to WoW, so much so that he's almost unbarable to be around, if you're at his house, wow is always on, team speak going randoms from around the world talking int he background, and when you pry him out of the house he talks of nothing else.. however he recently got a girlfriend he MET IN WOW. Now hes obsessed with both WoW AND his new found womanly obsession, so i dont think sex is the whole answer... It tipped me over the edge and i havent been able to see/talk to him since, it just anoys me too much :(

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[jelizondo]

And not only from games. A friend of mine, a successful accountant almost died some months ago from a clot, formed in her legs from sitting too may hours.

What ever else you are doing, get up and walk some every hour or so

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[bitt3n]

In that case we shouldn't worry, he'll kick his addiction once he discovers that his "girlfriend", the Undead Warlock named Zombiewitch, is really a 42 year-old balding fat guy from Cleveland.

that's 41, and it's a gland problem. jerk

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Anonymous Coward]

Still, they're under no obligation to remain your friend. If it's a natural relationship, then you learn to accommodate or leave them be. If he is not a literal, mooching burden on the household, fine.

As soon as you're imposing, you have crossed the line into thought police territory.

I have lost friends to addiction, permanently. I still don't think it's right to try to moralize on people and intervene. That's a modern notion brought on by the self-help armchair psychiatrist bunch, much akin to the notion that government needs to protect people from themselves. So in turn, we should all be reporting each other to the government because of our addictions, right? Wrong.

The very idea of intervening is grossly condescending and arrogant. Your concept of a happy life is no more intrinsically valid than that of anyone else. Quit thinking of yourself as so damn special, with all the answers...

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[jo42]

Leave him alone. It's called Darwinism. Either if he doesn't kill himself by sitting in front of the computer all day, then he won't develop the necessary social skills to have "S.E.X" and reproduce, thus avoiding polluting the gene pool with his strands.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[centuren]

I think people should mind their own bloody business personally. It's not like he's poisoning his body with drugs or alcohol or hurting other people with his "addiction".

How to help a friend? Leave them the hell alone to live their life how they want and stop being so bloody pretentious in thinking this person needs to be "saved".

I'm pretty much on board with this perspective. At some point he's an adult and takes responsibilities for his own actions. He might look back years later and lament the lost time (and quite possibly a delayed education), but that will have been his choice. The potential to be doing other things doesn't mean that he'd be happier not doing what he is now.

If he was spending all his time shut away in his room reading books, this wouldn't be post-worthy, it'd just be someone with a reclusive personality. If he was out getting smashed at parties and getting laid all the time, it wouldn't be post-worthy either. Still, it's just as easy to look back with regret on a year of partying as it is a year of playing an MMO.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Infamous Tim]

I have to respectfully disagree here. When you make a lifestyle out of anything, when that thing is suddenly gone you notice it. All the time. ALL THE TIME. It might not be a physical addition like nicotine, alcohol, or hard drugs, but it is still an addiction.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[StrongAxe]

Except that MMO is not an 'addiction' . . . it is a 'habit.' His friend will go through no withdrawal if his account expired tomorrow.

I see that you've obviously never been really into a game...

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[wisty]

Poker machines and MMO are very similar. The both have similar audio visual stimulus, the same payoff / reward systems. They are both engineered to be addictive. Psychologists will be divided over whether that counts as an addiction, but it's certainly a problem.

There are lots of resources for gambling, see The Gambling Addiction Patient Workbook By Robert R. Perkinson, or the Gambling Anonymous website. Or just google it.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[adolf]

"Unless this was posted by the girlfriend"

Answer's still the same: get him a girlfriend (another one, obviously).

(There. Fixed that for you.)

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[matty500]

If that were really true, it wouldn't explain the massive research that demonstrates that compulsive gambling can be even more addictive than many drugs...

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[centuren]

If he was spending all his time shut away in his room reading books, this wouldn't be post-worthy, it'd just be someone with a reclusive personality.

How many people have you heard of that wake up in the morning and read all day until 3AM the next morning, only stopping for meals and potty breaks?

Reading books may be too specific for that to be a good analogy of reclusive personality, but I like the partying example better anyway. Besides, how many people have you known to be obsessive like that with an MMO and then ended up growing out of it?

I went through a phase of playing WoW pretty intensely, and I (along with every friend that played with me), just grew out of it. The same went for wildly irresponsible nights on the town. However, only one of those two phases brings the phrase "thank god I don't have an STD or a felony record" to mind when I think back to it.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[jmpeax]

It's only an addiction when it hurts the people around you.

You obviously don't know much about addiction.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[hairyfeet]

As someone who has lived a good chunk of his life on the "wrong" side of the tracks, allow me to give him some advice given to me long ago by a wise ex junkie- You can't make ANYONE stop being a junkie. They have to want to stop being a junkie themselves. You just try to be their friend if you can, and if you can't you simply walk away. It sucks, but so does life a lot of times. I have known guys that have spent 5 years in prison and gone straight from their release to their dealer. If he doesn't WANT to quit all you are gonna do is piss him off and drive him away.

But trying to make someone quit something because YOU think it is bad for them will simply never work. They have to decide that THEY think it is bad for them. And their are those that can become just as big a junkie to an MMO than to crank. A buddy of mine told me a few years back his sister was having to divorce her husband because he was addicted to Warcrack. He would come straight home from work to the game, and had even gotten bad enough that he wouldn't even drive anymore because when they would go anywhere he would play Warcrack from the passenger seat on the $4K laptop and cellular card he bought just so he could Warcrack wherever he was. Even though this guy had a nice wife with 2 kids by her when she finally got fed up and say "Warcrack or me" he chose Warcrack.

So there is really nothing you can do, he has to decide he has a problem. Until and unless that day occurs all you are going to do is drive him away. Because if you give him the choice of your friendship or the game, you are gonna lose. And if you try to interfere with his gaming that is what will ultimately happen.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Mr_eX9]

Your lines in the sand don't really make a difference--he can still ruin his life by playing the game too much.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[RepelHistory]

Except that MMO is not an 'addiction' . . . it is a 'habit.'

You are aware that saying videogames can be addicting is not the same as saying videogames are inherently bad, right? No one's going all Jack Thompson here. There's no need to get defensive of your pastime. Anything that gives you pleasure can be addicting. Heroin, Marijuana, sex, food, emotions, videogames, you name it. A habit is an addiction if you can't break it.

His friend will go through no withdrawal if his account expired tomorrow.

Ever hear of the Tetris effect? People who play video games for a long period of time and then stop find themselves involuntarily thinking about or mentally picturing the game, to their detriment. Yeah it's not delirium tremens, but it sounds like withdrawal to me.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[TheWanderingHermit]

Maybe it was posted by his boyfriend.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[gaelfx]

Damn! You just reminded me of two things i can put on my resume.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Austerity Empowers]

amen. The same mentality which worries about addiction to MMOGs, worries about gambling addictions, drug adictions, alcohol addictions, porn addictions, adrenaline addictions, sex addictions, etc. You've told him what you think, he's rejected it, pushing further is just going to cement his position.

A person has the right to destroy himself if he so desires. It is neither your place, nor your obligation to intercede in the matter, except when he is hurting others who can't help themselves in the process (i.e. his children).

If he isn't holding up his end of your living arrangement, then you should take action. But friendship only goes so far, and let's face it, he's not much of a friend when he's glued to his monitor.

If you want to be his friend, help him when he (inevitably) gives up on the game.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Randle_Revar]

Make the point that the guy isn't getting any and you are (hopefully), and it'll probably hurt enough to get him to start thinking about what he's missing out on by spending all his time playing Pirates.

I can only speak for myself, but being harassed about how I am "not getting any" and everybody else is has never bothered me much at all. Certainly not enough for me to do something about it. And I am not even addicted to an MMO (you could maybe argue for a general internet addiction by stretching the definition a lot).

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[TellarHK]

The problem with gambling vs. MMO's is that the comparison fails to cover the companionship issue that group play brings in. You could almost compare MMO addiction to a battered spouse, in some of the emotional aspects.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[pcolaman]

As someone else who had a former MMO addiction (SW Galaxies, FFXI, WoW, to name a few), I concur. I had my parents, friends, etc, all telling me I had to unplug, but I would get angry when they told me I played too much. It took me gaining 40 lbs. sitting on my ass playing games that made me wake up and realize what I was doing to myself. Well, that, and nearly losing my job to a fucking game. That was a big wake up call too.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Kral_Blbec]

Ya, I mean all that concern for friends, who needs it? I'd rather just have the guys I get drunk with and who wouldn't shed a tear at my funeral.

You are pitiful. Haven't you ever wanted to help someone else who needs it even when they don't realize it?

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[MrCrassic]

Ever hear of the Tetris effect? People who play video games for a long period of time and then stop find themselves involuntarily thinking about or mentally picturing the game, to their detriment. Yeah it's not delirium tremens, but it sounds like withdrawal to me.

I absolutely love cycling and being on my bike. I think about it when I'm doing other stuff, but that's because I love it. I would be addicted to it if I were sacrificing other stuff to make time for it, which there are many cyclists out there who do exactly that. (Yes, there are cyclists that choose bikes over jobs, women and/or just about everything.)

The benefits of the activity are irrelevant; addiction is NEVER good, and EVERYONE loses.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Vintermann]

Meh, I'll just have to waste the mod points I've used in this discussion, to clear up this misunderstanding.

Addiction and withdrawal symptoms are quite independent.

Even for drugs, s.c. physical addiction isn't very serious in itself. People get physically addicted to morphine in hospitals all the time, but they will accept the withdrawal pains, and will be no more likely to become morphine addicts than other people (there are studies on this, which is why morphine-based painkillers are still used.)

Some of the nastiest street drugs have very little actual physical addictiveness.

It's psychological addiction that matters, for drugs as for anything else. Addicted people like doing what they do. And it's not based on a single chemical in the brain, as some people assume, because although both WoW and doing drugs may increase your dopamine levels, you can't just easily switch from one addiction to another.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[ta bu shi da yu]

It's amazing what people with rate as +1 informative these days.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Toonol]

I think most do; the idea that addicts have to hit rock bottom before reforming is mainly formed by arbitrarily discounting all the addicts that manage to cure themselves. They play too much, it harms them, they notice, have an internal struggle, and win.

I think that some of the consoling we do has the net effect of making addictions harder to kick. An addict SHOULDN'T wait until they hit rock bottom before they try to go straight, and as sure as hell nobody should be TELLING him that's what needs to happen. Sometimes it will happen, but some people have more resolve than others.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[bemymonkey]

Uh, actually... *raises hand*.

I've become somewhat addicted to my newsreader (not to mention Slashdot comments), and it's really been cutting into my studies.

Seriously, my girlfriend kicks me out of bed when she leaves in the morning, then I get a cup of coffee and start reading. Some time or other I'll pack up my netbook and go to a lecture... bam, laptop's on the desk, newsreader open. So I leave the laptop at home, oh, wait, Google Reader works on my smartphone - crap.

I know I could get much more productive stuff done (or at least some reading related to my chosen field of studies) during this time, but I just can't stop. I've become an information junky (and not the good kind - the crappy kind, like what kind of new geek toys there are, and the crap that's here on Slashdot)... This sort of behaviour goes on until about 1 or 2 in the morning. Drives my girlfriend crazy, too.

I dunno, is it an addiction? Or just the same thing as reading the newspaper every day, just a bit more excessive?

I really gotta get off here. It's 9:24AM on a Saturday, the sun's shining outside, and I'm laying in bed writing up a post to complete strangers who don't care about what I have to say anyway. That's it, time for some fresh air... *opens window and goes back to reading*.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[hairyfeet]

I was not trying to condemn the game, I was simply trying to point out that for him it really WAS Warcrack. If someone has an addictive personality then they can and often do become addicted to things which wouldn't be harmful to someone else.

I knew a guy who would blow through cash for pot like hardcore junkies blow through coke money. He would fire up before he even drew a single breath upon waking up and would keep going all through the day until he went to bed. To myself and most folks firing up the occasional joint is not going to be dangerous to anything but the cookie supply, but to him he just couldn't function without it. He was one of the few junkies whom I felt really sorry for because it was completely not his fault. Most go in knowing that a drug is potentially harmful and make a choice that they want the high more than the risk, but his mom was getting him high at 8 years old. Being high was pretty much the only way he had to cope with anything, as he never got a chance to grow up.

But if you are a player of Warcraft and took offense, that was never my intention. While I don't care for MMOs (prefer single player shooters and RPGs myself) I'm sure it is a nice game with plenty of nice folks playing it. And I wasn't meaning to imply that I "blame" Warcraft anymore than I would "blame" pot or booze for someone having a problem with them. I personally think all drugs, as well as gambling and prostitution should be legalized and taxed, with the money going to rehabs and counseling for those that want to quit. But for the person that the article was discussing the pirates MMO is just as addictive as any drug. Just as for my friend's ex brother in law Warcraft really was Warcrack.

And I stand by what I wrote and the words of the wise ex junkie I knew: You can NOT force someone not to be a junkie. Not by laws, not by nanny government, not by shunning or ridicule. Only THEY can choose not to be a junkie. And one man's recreation is another man's addiction. doesn't mean we should look down on the drug or activity. Hell I knew a guy that ended up in the hospital after nearly killing himself with his addiction to bodybuilding. Are we gonna ban gyms so guys like him can't hurt themselves? No of course not. All we can do is let them know that we are there to help them if they decide they need help and try not to be enablers. The rest is up to them.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[boaworm]

Except that MMO is not an 'addiction' . . . it is a 'habit.' His friend will go through no withdrawal if his account expired tomorrow.

I see that you've obviously never been really into a game...

You have never been addicted to a MMO I hear.

I remember a few times when my internet connection went down, I got really frustrated I couldn't keep grinding instances, gold or consumables (WoW). I just desperately needed to get back online, and as soon as the connection was back up, it was like a blessing.

For me, I essentially got bored of the game, and when I realised I was spending all this time playing a game that I didn't even enjoy, I quit. I probably couldn't have quit unless I got bored of it, since I would have romantisised about the gaming while doing other things, wanting to go back to playing WoW.

It can be just as much of an addiction as many other things.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[drsquare]

I think that's less to do with MMO addiction and more to do with homosexuality.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Tony Hoyle]

..and somethimes that 'win' is temporary. My wife is a WoW addict (before that she was an FFXI addict) - she'll sometimes realize she's done nothing but sit in the same chair for 6 years and decide to do something about it.. for about 2 weeks, then straight back into the 'safe' world of the game. It's a cycle that's hard to break - feel bad, play game to make you feel happier, suffer consequences of playing game 24/7, feel bad about it, play game, etc.

It doesn't help that although the medical profession recognise the addiction - she's been officially diagnosed with it - shortage of resources means if you miss a *single* appointment with the psychologist you're at the back of the queue again for treatment. And.. gee.. who are the people most likely to miss appointments? Addicts. So the cycle is never broken.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[bjourne]

terrible isn't it?

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Devout_IPUite]

Playing an MMO reduces amount of time you think about sex (you're busy thinking about new loot). You don't really mind not getting as much (speaking from experience).

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[Devout_IPUite]

You sound like an addict. I'm going to explain why it's addicting, maybe you'll realize it's addicting when I do: Friends.

Make a new character. Level to 6. Make a friend, we'll call them Bob. Bob keeps playing. You want to match Bob's leveling to keep playing with them. Level to 10. Make a friend. Repeat. Repeat. Level to 80. Join a cool raiding guild. You want to spend time with your friends. You want to get more gear so you can do better on the meters on the weekly runs. You need to farm to get gold to do enchants. You want to take some time to get that Argent Tournament Raptor. If you stop, you fall behind. Your guild is relying on your for attendance. Your friends are gearing up. Take 3 months off and you'll need to find a new guild because there will be to many mages when you come back. Damn.

The game is addictive because it's social. When you play almost any console game you play alone. You can put the game down for 4 months come back and you're still in the same place. Because so much of an MMO is building relationships you need to maintain those or you actually go backwards.

Consider if you feel obligated to play to keep in line with gear curves or guild duties.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[aurispector]

Agreed. A primary characteristic of addiction is damage to the self. The first step is for the guy to admit there's something wrong. If you're really a friend, write the guy a letter saying you're worried about him and get as many of his friends sign it as possible. Give it to him, tell him you're concerned and then step back. Be there for him, ask if he needs anything, invite him out whenever possible to give him an opportunity to make the choice to step away, but otherwise let him make his choices on his own. The reasons for addiction are complex - there's often some underlying need that isn't being dealt with and the mmo takes the place of dealing with it. In the end he has to decide to face his problems and you can't force him to do it. If he fails out, gets expelled, whatever; unfortunately that may be what it takes for him to realize he needs to make a change.
He may need to take time off from school in order to deal with it.

On the bright side, you aren't finding used needles or little plastic baggies so it could be a lot worse.

I wonder why so many people think you should allow "friends" to go to hell with themselves. That sounds more like a casual acquaintance than a friend.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[ta bu shi da yu]

It appears I've split opinion. One moderator thinks that I'm quite informative, the other thinks that I'm a troll. I suspect that the latter also thinks that the grandparent post was insightful, which I think says quite a bit more about the moderator than myself.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[MMC Monster]

I'm not sure why others here haven't admitted that they are addicted to /.. I check the site a couple dozen times a day, and my work doesn't even put me in front of a computer.

At home it's even worse.

I know I have a problem, but I opt to believe that it's not serious since I do my job and have a decent relationship with my wife and kids. But I think I would be a better person if I read /. just a half hour a day, instead of the 2-3 hours (aggregate) I put in now.

Re:It's Called S.E.X

[snowgirl]

My roommate is more or less addicted to WoW, but at least she has a job, and gets out, and so it doesn't consume her life.

Even still, when the last patch came out, something changed, and it broke her firewall exceptions, and blocked her out of the game. Her solution was to entirely reinstall everything from her computer.

Not because power-users reinstall every month, not because it would increase the performance of her machine, not because of anything like that. Rather, solely and singularly because she couldn't play her WoW.

Noted below, "Poker machines and MMOs are very similar", it's totally true. There is a gambling addiction, and if such a behavioral addiction exists, then MMO addiction must exist as well.

Appeal to His Original Priorities

[eldavojohn]

Slashdotters, what would you do to help out a friend in this situation?

I used to live in a bad part of the Franklin neighborhood in Minneapolis. As I pulled up next to my house, two squad cars were parked in a V in my front lawn with their cherries on. I had just worked until 2am at a parking garage on the U of MN campus. There was an adolescent in front of my house being stared down by a policeman. As I walked up the cop was staring him down and holding a bag of weed saying very loudly and very forcefully, "... yeah? And what skills you got? What has this shit been doing for you? How long have you been using? What are you going to do when you're a grown up providing for yourself?"

While that's a lot more melodramatic than you need to be, you can put your friend in the same situation.

A man's got priorities. Your friend's sound screwed up ... but maybe they aren't. I know how someone would approach me about this, they wouldn't try to stop me. Instead, they--being my friends--would appeal to things they know that matter to me. I'll try to list them in order that I think you can evoke a reaction from your friend:

• Religion
• Family
• Role Models
• Career
• School
• Ego
• Love

I've seen people give up several of these for an MMORPG (Star Wars Galaxies ruined lives). You need to sit down and talk to him and try to realign his priorities. You have to know him and know where he's going to bring that logic. If things don't matter to him anymore there's not a lot you can do once you've made all those appeals (and you may know more).

Slashdotters, what would you do to help out a friend in this situation? Perhaps you are a reformed addict yourself -- if so, how did you break out of the habit?

If I was spending too much time in a game it would take very little to cause me to get up and walk away: "Since you started playing that game, how much closer are you to being the person you want to be when you die?" Don't think that would work on your friend--especially if he has low self esteem.

Most importantly if you convince him to stop, you need to be there for him to fill up that part of his life or to help see the value in realigning his goals.

Last thing is that if he isn't screwing up or endangering any of these things, you're going to have a hell of a hard time convincing him out of the game ... although I cannot fathom how that would be.

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree; it's a serious addiction and you can't just talk him out of it. I fell into a similar trap last Spring; after years of video game addiction I threw away a semester of tuition by playing games 12 hours a day (nighttime), sleeping 12 hours (daytime), and eating a few times a week when I woke up early enough for dinner. I grew seriously disturbed and my depression swallowed me up.. it literally culminated in a suicide attempt that left me with a broken neck.

I still play video games, but no TF2 or Insurgency, the games I burned my nights on. They're fun games but they just suck you dry.. whenever I try to play them that familiar thrill of a big exciting moment (lots in TF2) makes me sick remembering how hollow it leaves you.

It's really like a drug addiction.. not physically obviously but the game is so fun and the rewards so immediate and thrilling compared to a crap life.. I think anyone who's come off an all-day frag session really knows what I mean. It was great and fun and you had some epic moments, but you take away absolutely nothing from it. "Well, that was a waste of my weekend." Your weekend just vanishes into completely forgettable minutiae and come Monday you feel like you just left work for the weekend.

Video game control legislation like China's is obviously absurd, but everyone knows someone whose life has been ruined by WoW.. it's shocking how many people get trapped in self destructive patterns by the rush of victory and pride of being superior (level, armor, whatever). It should at least come with a warning label or something.. whatever.

Posted AC for obvious reasons

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[Bigjeff5]

I think you missed the point dude, and are WAY to focused on religion-bashing.

The point was to appeal to what this guy thinks is important.

For a very large segment of the population, Religion is very important. The choice at #1 isn't too far fetched.

However, I don't think he was making a prioritized list, I think he was just listing the most emotion inducing - and therefore most likely to be effective - appeals the guy could probably make to his friend. Religion would definitely be near the top of that list.

It's not like he was telling the guy exactly what to say, good god man, don't be so sensitive!

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[Brian Gordon]

Well, religious people seem happy. A lot happier than WoW nuts. *shrug*

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[eldavojohn]

Ugh, how could you list Religion as #1? That addiction has destroyed the lives of uncountably many more people than MMORPGs.

Yeah? You know a lot of people that wake up at 9am and get on the religion forums and then pray until 3am? Oh, you don't? Well, maybe you should pay attention to your own meager statistics. I'm an atheist. But I'm not stupid.

And if you disagree? Well, it just shows people have different ideas of what to dedicate their lives to, so who are you to tell them otherwise?

I'm confused, are you telling the person who asked the question that he shouldn't try to convince his friend to stop playing or does your logic only apply when it's your ideas that are being questioned?

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[Obyron]

Most of the drug addicts I've met seem happy, as long as they have drugs.

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[Darkness404]

Let me rephrase that for you:

Devotion in the extreme to anything has led to more deaths throughout history than anything else.

Its not just religion, its any devotion in the extreme. Just think about patriotism. Addiction is simply an extreme devotion to something, it can be harmful too.

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[MaskedSlacker]

I'm an atheist. But I'm not stupid.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[Reziac]

And if they do kick drugs, the next thing most wind up addicted to is -- religion. :/

Well, at least it's usually less destructive.

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[Psyborgue]

Least destructive? Sadly, no. when you consider that "the 12 steps were delivered by god to bill wilson" has stagnated any and all rational alternative treatments, religion has actually done quite a bit of harm. If you want to help a person quit something simply emphasize that they have the power to do it themselves if they want to. No flying spaghetti monster is ever going to help.

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[averner]

Ugh, how could you list Religion as #1? That addiction has destroyed the lives of uncountably many more people than MMORPGs.

Religion provides real-life community which the person can use to find mates for procreation. MMORPGs do not.

By the way, I'm an atheist.

Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[JAlexoi]

I don't know a single person who's life was ruined by WoW. Do you think that everyone's life is a rose garden by default?
What about when you are dirt poor, you have an insane mother with chronic psychosis and absent father? When you are thrown out on the street? And being 2000 miles away from you closest relatives that could help out.
If I would have taken the same road most of my neighbors did, I would be either and alcoholic or dead.
WoW saved my life. It appeared just at the time of the peak of my misery. Sure I spent a lot on it, but I can surely say that if I did not have my cat and WoW, I would have committed suicide.
And a lot of my closest friends did not know anything like the life I was living. So they all bailed, because they were unfamiliar. And I don't blame them, they would not be able to help me.
And if a person that couldn't comprehend me would come to me and start moralizing about WoW addiction, I would just say: "Fuck off".
So hows that for a story of my fucked up life, that is extended BY MMORPG's.

Grief

[Boronx]

Get some buddies, make some accounts, grief him until he quits.

Re:Grief

[ergo98]

Sure, but then they'll be hooked on griefing people. Really it is more addictive than the games themselves.

Though why does this story smell like an ad? The single link is to some weirdo largely unknown game, under the context that it's so good that someone is hooked and needs to be broken free. My Spammy-Senses are tingling.

Re:Grief

[twidarkling]

Pirates of the Burning Seas? Unknown? Not really. It's not a huge one, but if you pay attention to games at all, you'd hear about it a few times. Pirate-based MMO? On the internet? And you expect it to go unnoticed?

Re:Grief

[j_166]

"Sure, but then they'll be hooked on griefing people. Really it is more addictive than the games themselves."

Easy solution to that: Just get them some heroin to take their minds off the griefing.

Re:Grief

[dprovine]

Buddies, yes, griefing, not necessarily. I know a woman whose husband went totally into World of Warcraft, and it got horribly bad. He ignored her, the family, everything. Then their teenage son started lifting weights, saying he didn't want to just play at being strong, he wanted to actually have the muscles. Dad was interested; they worked out in the basement for about an hour a day. He still played a lot, but he was willing to give up an hour to better look the part. (She made a point of rewarding this by being touchy-feely after he'd worked out, which she says wasn't hard because she really did like it.) Then she found out about the local SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) chapter, and the teenage son said he was going to try to find out about how to use a real quarterstaff. Dad thought the idea of doing game-like-things IRL was fantastic.

He still plays WoW, but only an hour or so a day. And he and his son made two chainmail shirts (instructions on YouTube), and so on. The thing is still there, but his mania is spread out to include other real people and his real life. (I joking suggested the wife get a chainmail bikini.)

Whatever game this is, you might be able to slowly pry him out of it by asking lots of questions about how the game is played and finding out about the various stuff in the game. And then see if there are any real-life elements which can actually be done. If it's pirates, maybe you could get him to accompany you to see one of those visiting tall ships that sails around.

You've probably got way less leverage than a wife and son, of course, but what worked for them may work for you: don't attack or criticize. People usually don't respond well to criticism. Embrace and extend instead. It's harder to guard against a friend than it is to guard against a critic.

Delete

[EdIII]

Hack his account and delete it. Keep doing it. He will figure it out eventually, just don't get caught.

When all of his "work" is destroyed, it will make it hard for him to want to continue slaving away. Keep doing it.

If he is not deterred by that at all, well then I suggest seeking professional help and at least getting an intervention started with the rest of his friends.

Re:Delete

[Goldberg's Pants]

So you're advocating hacking his account. Classy. Where do you people get off? Christ, given some of the people I've known in MMO's when I used to play, if you were found hacking their account, you would be dead. Seriously, I know several people who if you did that to you would lose it and kill you where you stand.

Nobody has any right to hack into someone elses accounts and delete it. Honestly, advocating that is sickening.

Regardless of the fact it's only a game, imagine how YOU'D feel if some asshole deleted the product of a year or two of your hobby. Like say you're into Warhammer and I come along set fire to your models "for your own good".

God you people are sick.

Re:Delete

[Anonymous Coward]

Regardless of the fact it's only a game, imagine how YOU'D feel if some asshole deleted the product of a year or two of your hobby. Like say you're into Warhammer and I come along set fire to your models "for your own good".

God you people are sick.

...and trudging away at a digital treadmill (for allegedly ~18 hrs/day) is healthy? el-oh-el, sir.

Hacking the guy's account and deleting all his "hard work" isn't exactly the friendly way to help. However, that it only takes a few clicks to erase all that "work" should be weighed heavily against the notion that there is worth in those Pavlovian Pixels.

The friends pull the plug now, or the devs do in a year or two when they realize they'll never be WoW.... Does it matter? Only in the timing; does the guy pull himself around in time to make it through college, or does he become a basement dwelling neckbeard, devoid of friends outside of pixxel tiem?

You can;t save someone from their self.

[Anonymous Coward]

I learned that with my regular old drug junkie friends.

Re:You can;t save someone from their self.

[Lemmy Caution]

The friends and family of someone in a cycle of addiction can play an important role in communicating that 1. there's a problem and 2. it's possible to overcome it.

You could always do what my friend did...

[VE3MTM]

Steal the modem and hide it off-site. Then leave for a vacation.

You don't do anything.

[geekboy642]

He's addicted to being a pirate. He's too far gone to be saved...all you can do is sandbag around his computer. But when the replica cannon arrives via UPS, I suggest you leave.

firewall, fdisk, or just wait it out...

[jkinney3]

Sounds like this is taking place in a college setting. Don't worry about it. Darwin will always win. Your MMO addict will be getting a permanent chance to play all day forever back in Mom's basement after he flunks out. It's not your problem and don't try to make it be otherwise.

Re:firewall, fdisk, or just wait it out...

[dr_dank]

Sounds like this is taking place in a college setting. Don't worry about it. Darwin will always win. Your MMO addict will be getting a permanent chance to play all day forever back in Mom's basement after he flunks out. It's not your problem and don't try to make it be otherwise.

Spot on. College is the sandbox where you can be a fuckup like this and not have it haunt you for life. There will always be a percentage of kids at university that will do things like this once they're out of Mom and Dad's house.

That said, if this kid really does have a compulsion or other deep-seated issue thats driving him to play like this, I really don't think that any amount of reasoning will sway him.

Re:firewall, fdisk, or just wait it out...

[foeclan]

Oddly, kinda worked the opposite for me. I spent all my time on MUSHes when I was in college, was academically dismissed, then turned the programming and computer skills I'd taught myself while MUSHing into a career. Not that I'd expect that to work for modern MMOs, since you don't program anything in them really unless you're into modding. I did eventually go back and finish my biology degree, however, and being kicked out was definitely the reality check I needed on getting my priorities straight (though it took a while to figure that out).

Re:firewall, fdisk, or just wait it out...

[Bigjeff5]

Perhaps, for some strange reason, the guy actually cares about his friend and wants some help saving his friend from that life?

You know, like a friend?

Honestly, if that's how much you care about your friends, you can't have many. Or at least not many good ones, at any rate.

Re:firewall, fdisk, or just wait it out...

[Talgrath]

The point is that he can't really do anything for his friend, other than tell him that he doesn't like him like this and he'll stop being his friend if he doesn't stop. You can't force people to do what you want, even if they are your friends.

Hooker

[Mr. Underbridge]

'nuff said.

Make an educational MMO Game

[ergo98]

Work exam material into the game and you have double good!

Really, though, wouldn't it be great if games like World of Warcraft turned into actually practical learning experiences, instead of simply forcing you to learn a lot of completely irrelevant info? Of course I haven't played a MMO(RPG) since a brief stint with Ultimate Online, so maybe kids nowadays really are studying their double-slit experiment results to level up their Quantum Photon Physics skill.

Re:Make an educational MMO Game

[Temposs]

I think that people who get into MMORPGs actually do like to work, or it at least doesn't preclude them from that. The difference is that the work they're doing is something we don't particularly see as valuable to society.

I think dedicated MMORPG players want to feel successful at something. I think those that are overly addicted and spend all their waking time devoted to the work of playing this game means to a large extent that they don't feel they can feel the same kind of success in any other pursuit.

Is he a room-mate?

[corychristison]

Just curious if this particular individual is a room-mate.

If so, is he paying his portion of bills/rent?
If so, leave him be. All he can hurt is himself.
If not, kick him out. Maybe he'll come to his senses.

Re:Is he a room-mate?

[xSauronx]

im going with this. if hes not hurting anyone and hes not a leech, leave him alone and go enjoy your own life. hes going to have to hit rock bottom to really care enough to make any kind of change, anything you do will likely just make him resent you.

Re:It's not a problem

[Bieeanda]

It's not a problem until he flunks out of school, gets booted from the house for not paying rent, and loses his computer and/or internet connection and/or Pirates subscription. His pleasure is at the expense of others, and his creditors are going to come calling sooner rather than later.

You call that an addiction?

[dmomo]

Toilet Breaks? Tell him he's doing it wrong.

The dude doesn't even have a pod.

Why?

[Anachragnome]

Why do YOU feel obligated to do something here?

Sounds like the guy is a legal adult. Aside from voicing your concerns, butt the hell out. If the dude wants to slide through the first few years of post-highschool, or whatever, it IS his choice.

Like with any addiction, change doesn't come about until the addicted WANTS it to happen. Period.

Re:Why?

[MrMista_B]

You really think his friends abandoning him and giving up will help anything?

Re:Why?

[Bigjeff5]

It's more likely to trigger the desperation required to seek help than anything else they could do.

Really though, it would probably take getting kicked out of school, losing his job, and getting kicked out of his parents' house if his addiction is taking up 18 hours of his day. Maybe not even then.

Trying to do anything more than saying "I'm not associating with you any longer, because of that stupid game" and then actually breaking your association with him will probably cause him to cling to his game more tightly, not wake up and smell the roses.

Eventually he's going to realize that, as good as online social interactions can be, they are flat out one dimensional and lame compared to the real thing.

Unfortunately you have absolutely no control over that realization, and the quicker he loses things that are important to him the quicker he may wake up.

It's called tough love, sometimes abandoning is what it takes when the person refuses to let you help them.

I guarantee you at the time of the decision it sucks a hell of a lot more for the abandoner than the abandoned. It's only later that the abandoned person realizes what he lost, the guy who had to abandon him has known what he lost from the beginning.

Easy.. Just Hire Nicotrel

[AnswerIs42]

About 10 minutes with Nicotrel and he will never even want to look at a computer generated character again...

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/99/99onicotrel.phtml

Still not a problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

I still don't see the problem. If he is homeless and without a computer or internet, he will no longer need to worry about being addicted to a game now will he?

Addicts need to hit bottom before you can re-rehabilitate them. Furthermore, it is not the OP's place to tell this person how to live their life. The only thing the OP can do is wait for the inevitable, and be there for this person when they do hit bottom. Any attempt to stop him from playing the game will only sour the OP's relationship with their friend.

Re:Still not a problem.

[CAIMLAS]

Unless this guy has a personal bankroll that he's using to fund his lethargy, his parents are likely paying for the lifestyle he's leading (in part or whole). Angry parents can do quite a bit to motivate a person. Maybe it's time someone called his parents.

Re:Still not a problem.

[Lemmy Caution]

I think as sad as the game addiction is, the attitude of many to simply give up on him and let him fail at life is at least as sad. Friends and family are supposed to care; the profound alienation some geeks have from the rest of humanity except at the most distant and constrained levels is really tragic.

My suggestion to the OP: fortunately, game addiction isn't like other addictions, and it often doesn't take the same bottoming-out to get things under control. Most game addicts (I don't want to mince words: on the short to medium term, it is practically indistinguishable from addiction - pedantry about it is unhelpful) seem to stop playing addictively when they start building social skills and active lives, which of course creates a positive feedback loop. My suggestion: get him out of the house. Vacations, nights-out, activities. Work with him in getting a busy activity calendar. This seems to be effective in getting people to stop obsessive playing, because it scratches the "itch" of sociality that MMOs always promise to scratch but never quite satisfies.

Re:Still not a problem.

[DoninIN]

This whole "addicts need to hit rock bottom" thing is a meaningless trope spouted by a bunch of 12 step folks who are pitching a faith, not science based approach to dealing with a particular addiction. Then taking this faith based approach to a particular addiction, and extrapolating it to other addictive behaviors.... So while it's not an entirely worthless hypothesis, it's far too vague to really be a useful statement. Certainly it shouldn't be trotted out over and over as a "FACT" It's got damn little to do with science and it's a pretty difficult to define or test thing anyway. Also since at least a good portion of the people we're talking about here have much more of a mental illness problem, and are in fact depressed or developing some kind of OCD, and are not "alcoholic" or game-oholic or whatever, they don't need to hit "rock bottom" and one shouldn't expect them to follow this religous 12 step regimen to get better. Depressives don't need to hit "rock bottom" they need help, "bottom" probably means a succesful suicide attempt in that context. It's way off topic but I don't doub that AA does help folks and that it may be a useful vehicle for people who turn to it and follow it's 12 step program. That's not the same thing as pointing out that it's not at all a scientific approach, a peer reviewed treatment plan etc. Just 'cause they say some things does not make those things so.

Re:Still not a problem.

[Vintermann]

Amen. It's especially important to see that people don't get addicted in a vacuum. The are reasons people prefer games or drugs over life - it may be something temporary, like a depression, or it might go deeper.

There's a theory of a thing called "self-handicapping". People would sometimes rather fail with something to blame, than take the risk of failing without something to blame. Unlike "rock bottom", this is possible to define and test: If you give someone an impossible task, they're more likely to accept a drink halfway through than people who get an easier one.

I think this explains a lot of drug abuse and other addictions. If you smoke pot and party like crazy in college, you have an excuse for poor grades - maybe it won't work as an excuse for a potential employer, but it'll work for yourself, and that's what matters. If you're afraid of becoming a complete loser, it may be appealing to do something that will MAKE you a complete loser - because then you'd have something to point to.

Re:Don't bother

[zxjio]

You don't understand addiction if you think it something to be fought with logical persuasion. And you are probably normal in saying to ditch him, but really, I'm disgusted by how callous people are today. Friendships and relationships involve a little inconvenience, not just saying, 'well, I told him it's a bad idea, fuck him!'

Seek professional help

[kestrelokes]

I had a friend in college who was addicted to an MMO - not quite at the hours you describe, but not far off. Every semester when finals came around, we tried to tear him away from his computer and help him study, but he never listened. When convincing/arguing/pleading failed (and eventually, it always failed), we would hide or break his game CDs, but he would buy, pirate, borrow, or otherwise find a new copy. He failed out of school.

Seek professional help. Talk to the counselors at your school.

Re:Seek professional help

[drolli]

Mod parent up.

Let's face some things

a) Addiction is a psychological symptom.

b) Some people are more prone to developing addictions due to genetics or education that others

c) When you are addicted, just stopping is not a choice you have (otherwise it would not be called addiction).

d) There is nothing immoral about beeing addicted. Since the guy is not free to make this decision, you can not argue with him.

e) There are side-factors or circumstances which help or cause to develop addictions.

f) There is no way you handle the situation correctly without help

So, yes, your friend will need professional help to solve this thing. How can you bring it to him? I guess asking the school counselor may be a good idea. Maybe it is necessary that he fails some exams. Maybe his parents can help (a friend of mine had a classmate who started university and got addicted to some game. At some points his parents stopped paying the bill, came with a car on the last day of the appartment rent, picked him up and took him to recovery.). This requires that his parents undertsand the situation. Sometimes their behaviour may be one of the circumstances causing the addiction.

A few more side notes

a) I personally am surprised that MMOs allow you to stay online for 18h/day. The Problem was known in MUDs a long time ago (e.g. 1994/1995). Some of these offered you a limitation of you online-time, which a lot of people gladly did.

b) At that time maximum considered suitable something like 20h/week.

c) I don't think a serious MMO addition is less problematic than an alcohol addiction. Sleep deprivation can do funny thing to you memory

d) My personal opinion is that MMO providers should be held liable for the damages they do carelessly in peoples lifes. Due to the nature of the service, namely one person holding one account, it would be more than easy to program triggers who warn the person or even lock down his account by force (one could implement more subtle gradual measures like increasing hte lag with time etc.). Yes, the company may loose money. But the barkeeper who give somebody who has enough a few more drinks also has responsibility (at least in Germany). So if you make the responsible the companyu will loose less money if they restrict their users behaviour.

Re:Seek professional help

[lukas84]

My personal opinion is that MMO providers should be held liable for the damages they do carelessly in peoples lifes.

No, no and no!

Everyone should be responsible for their own actions. Yes, a MMO can ruin your life. But either they're old enough to ruin their own lives - or they're not, and their parents can simply take their computer away.

So can driving your car with 250 mph into a wall of concrete. That doesn't mean that car manufacturers should be held reliable for your stupidity.

Damned good topic

[erroneus]

I know a guy who had a pretty comfortable life. Nice house, pretty wife, three kids, good job, the whole shootin' match... and on top of that, he was the classic "undeserving" guy... didn't really know that much but was able to convince people that knew far less than him that he was quite adept. (We've all seen this and hated them for it yes?) Well this guy got into Diablo and literally let his life fall apart. He lost his job and couldn't keep one. Lost his wife and kids. Lost his house. Not sure what he is up to these days but he has definitely not owned up to his weakness. He probably plays WOW or something else now but I can't imagine that he has figured out where his life had gone wrong yet.

Some people have it in their heads, especially when they are in their mid 40s, that they are an adult and you can't tell them how to live their lives... it's his choice and he is happy where he us. (you know he's not though, not when you see everything he has lost in favor of his gaming addiction... one particular low point was when he landed a date with a hit young woman in her mid 20s. Who knows what she was thinking or what he said to spoil it, but she announced she thought of him as a "father figure" and that was pretty much the end of that... didn't handle rejection well and got himself drunk enough that he woke up on his front lawn having pissed himself completely and no idea how he even got home to begin with... the guy is a mess and his brain is hard wired to making stupid decisions.)

While I would LOVE to find a magic answer to help THIS guy out, I don't think there is any such way.

Re:Damned good topic

[phantomfive]

It is probably because of being the undeserving guy that his life fell apart. It sucks when you know you are faking it, and it's work, and once you get over your fear of failure, it's easier to let it all go and just be yourself (or at least, be the one you perceive yourself as). At the end of the day, people don't need to be happy, they just need to be comfortable.

Blue October has a good song that kind of represents this mindset, Amazing.

Can you pretend I'm amazing?
I can pretend I'm amazing
Instead of what we both know.....

It's a good song, you should listen to it. If he's been pretending he's amazing, but he's really not, then he'll have that hole in his heart that will mess everything up (like getting a 25 year old girl).

The solution that I think works best is to somehow show him that he really can be amazing in real life. Accomplishing things in real life trumps accomplishments in video games any day of the week. If you want to help him see that, you'll need to see it yourself first, see how he is really an amazing person who could accomplish a lot if he just managed to get around a few roadblocks. Sounds like he already has some great social skills when he uses them, he just needs to learn how to program or whatever else he needs to learn. Programming is not hard, anyone can do it.

Once he sees himself as someone amazing and capable and not a total loser, he will begin motivating himself to change.

Vacation

[jwill7g9]

The only think that broke me away from a 4 year World of Warcraft addiction was a long vacation. After spending two weeks in Japan, I realized that I didn't need WoW and was missing out on a whole world real life adventure. The only other thing I can think of is a girlfriend but that isn't likely to happen given your friend never leaves the computer. Vacation away from home is your best bet.

Sit him down, and talk.

[QJimbo]

My suggestion would be, in one of the breif moments when he's off the game, get him to just come and talk to you, heck maybe even get some of your other friends to join, and keep him occupied in a social discussion for an hour or two to at least break the cycle once in a while. If that doesn't have a lasting effect, just talk to him by himself and say you're concerned about his wellbeing, ask him if he wants to spend all his life eating ready meals and sitting in front of a computer like a zombie.

Usually any addiction is a sign of something missing from the persons life, if you can find out what that is, maybe you can help him get over the cause rather than the effect.

Too little, too late.

[Bieeanda]

If you and the rest of your buddies are working at reviewing for finals, your addicted friend has already fucked the dog academically. Chances are, that's why he's playing the game for eighteen hours a day: it's a classic avoidance mechanism. He responds with hostility because he considers the game to be his only outlet for frustration and his only source of accomplishment. His guild, assuming he has one, is probably the only social interaction he engages in as well.

Your friend needs help. Professional help. Your school probably has a psychological counseling office, but that's the sort of thing that he needs to seek himself. Confronting him, wrecking his account, getting him banned, or anything else is not going to help you or him at this point.

I say this because I've been that person. Same academic issues, same fixation on a game for social reinforcement (a MUX, in my case), and I'd wager that he's feeling just as depressed and afraid as I did when I was in that situation.

If you want to help him, get in touch with his family. Get in touch with his professors and the dean of his faculty. If he's religious, get in touch with his pastor. Chances are, none of them have any idea what's really going on. It's really easy to just grunt and shrug when someone asks how classes are going. They may have suspicions, but between their desire to treat him as an adult, and the shame and frustration he's feeling at being unable to cope, he doesn't feel like he can ask for help, and they don't feel like they can successfully confront him.

if he's that lost.....

[phantomfive]

.........his life outside the game probably sucks. Assuming he is in school, he's probably going to fail his classes, and doesn't want to think about it. Thinking about it just makes him feel worse. Leaving his game world just makes him miserable. Who knows, maybe his mom just died too, or something and so in the real world, he's got all this pain, but in the game world he's kind of ok.

If he's going to leave, it's going to either be by force (ie, he can't pay for his apartment anymore, or you destroy his computer), or because he comes to believe that the outside world is something he can handle, that all the pain isn't really all that bad: it is something we all deal with and all can learn to face.

Go with the second option: just be his friend, make him food sometime or something, whatever. He absolutely knows he's messed up, so you telling him that won't help much. Just accept him (maybe even ask him what he did on WOW today, sometimes stuff like that works), and be prepared for a lot of negativeness that he'll throw at you before he's willing to trust you.

Also, if you want to understand the whole 'powerless to face the world' mindset, it can help to listen to Blue October, they've got some good songs.

Re:Girls

[Anonymous Coward]

getting some what? STDs?

Re:Packet Shaping

[Darkness404]

Or you can sign up for Comcast and get that all with no effort!

That is retarded

[Sycraft-fu]

For one, all the MMO companies I've ever encountered have plenty of records of what has happened with an account. That was if something goes wrong, they can restore it. If it gets hacked, they'll just roll it back to where it was before then. So the company will fix the problem and he'll just get to keep going. Now if you keep doing it, you WILL get caught. That's how criminals, and make no mistake that's what you'd be, get caught: They keep doing it. Each time there's more chance you slip up, each time there's more patterns to look for.

In this case you'd get found out fairly quickly because those involved would realize the only way someone could keep getting his password is to have physical access to his computer.

So this is an excellent way to not fix the problem, and to land your ass in jail. Hacking can be a very serious offense if they want it to be.

Re:That is retarded

[nobodylocalhost]

Would happen. Since you flushed all his drugs, there would be no evidence that you were doing anything just. So, there is nothing backing your claim that you were trying to flush his drugs. Instead, the DA would nail you on break entering, attempted robbery, and trespassing just for good measure.
Same with breaking into someone's computer. Just as it is hard to prove intent, the opposite also is true. When you are in a court room, you can't go "I broke into the pentagon's mainframes, but all I want to do is stop the government employees from wasting our tax dollar by surfing the net all day" (p.s. That's what a whole lot of them do). Odds are even if that was your intent, you are more than likely end up in prison.

router.

[zippthorne]

Hopefully you've got a router. Using the built-in firewall, block the ports that the game requires. on and off for five minutes at a time. So he has to keep logging in and never makes any progress (well, even less than normal...), but doesn't realize you're fiddling with it.

If you can't place a linux box as router without being suspicious, you might be able set up a cron job on cheapo laptop you connect to automatically keep changing the commodity router's settings.

YES! Re:Appeal to His Original Priorities

[dmomo]

And maybe think about the role of this addiction in the persons life. If playing video games is the best part of their otherwise depressing shitty life, you should be prepared to help beyond this scapegoat addiction.

Causation established?

[sheetsda]

Interesting side question: Is his gaming addiction being caused by failing out of school or some other real-life problem (depression?) or is the gaming addiction causing the effects as the story suggests?

Preface: I was once spending more hours per week working on WoW characters than on my concurrent full-time job. I managed to keep said job so I'm not sure I ever got as bad as the person in this story, however, some things worth pointing out:

- This person probably considers those people he knows in the MMO to be greater friends than those he knows in real life. Cooperation from the those in game friends will be the greatest asset to your cause if you can get it, especially if he's a member of a player organization (guild in WoW. Not sure what they're called in Pirates).
- I eventually quit because there were things I wanted to do in life. Presumably he has some of these too. Ask him what the end-game is given what he's doing with his time. What does he hope to accomplish in the game that will matter 5 years from now, have him weigh that with what he's potentially giving up in real life that will matter 5 years from now. He has likely considered this and can't quit cold-turkey so this isn't useful until you can get him down to a reasonable amount of play time making this is your long-term weapon.
- Point out that he can pick the game up again any time right where he left off. This is your short-term weapon. Remind him real life is rarely so forgiving.

Very easy...

[tlambert]

Very easy...

You and 4 or 5 of your friends all get accounts, and then follow him around in the game ganking all his treasure.

-- Terry

Re:Don't bother

[Obyron]

People want friends, not projects; unless they're fucked up and compensating. Of course friendships and relationships involve a little convenience, but having to feel like it's your responsibility to rescue someone from themselves is more than a little inconvenience, and frankly I think most people can agree they don't hold all of their friends on a level where they would find that necessary. I have quite a few friends, but very very few I'd feel the need to march into hell to save from their own poor impulse control; and even those would probably wear out their welcome pretty quickly.

advice from the agony ent: don't be hasty

[epine]

It's not a problem until he flunks out of school, gets booted from the house for not paying rent, ...

My god, you'd fit well into the medical establishment. Studying to become a doctor?

Q: My friend survives on a diet of poutine and coke. A: It's not a problem until his heart palpitates.

I guess nothing is a problem in life until the condition is so severe that the poor sop is ready to cut a large cheque (supposing any funds remain) for quadruple bypass surgery performed by someone who didn't flunk out of school.

Great advice from the perspective of the doctor's retirement fund, not such good advice from the perspective of the future patient.

The underlying anger thing suggests this person is not ready to confront his inner conflict in the context of the larger world. Probably the best move is to distance yourself from the impending conflagration.

If you set yourself up to become the lightening rod for your friend's anger, and you have the patience of a saint, your friend might recover, but your friendship won't. One way or another, your friend will ultimately classify you in the "before" or "after" category.

You do have an opportunity to provide your friend with a small glimpse of leadership and self determination by taking responsibility for your own emotional content.

"I don't like hanging around with you when you play games 15 hours a day. It worries and irritates me to think about where your life might end up if you continue to behave this way. We need to think about different living arrangements. I hope we'll continue to be friends. I'll be very upset if we end up falling out over this. One of us needs to start looking for a new place to live. How are we going to sort this out?"

I've been reading a lot of economic theory lately. Apparently, according to economists, humans are rational agents in almost every respect.

This via Colby Cosh, my favourite lucid and agreeable wingnut.
http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2009/04/berl-redux.html

Who's to tell me that my utility function is wrong?

Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth to this. Where he means to put the emphasis on "wrong", I would put the emphasis on "who", as it concerns your friend. If you solve for x and x = yourself, I'd harbour some grave doubts about *your* utility function after you showed the common sense to look before leaping.

Re:advice from the agony ent: don't be hasty

[Bigjeff5]

"I don't like hanging around with you when you play games 15 hours a day. It worries and irritates me to think about where your life might end up if you continue to behave this way. We need to think about different living arrangements. I hope we'll continue to be friends. I'll be very upset if we end up falling out over this. One of us needs to start looking for a new place to live. How are we going to sort this out?"

Man, I was all on-board with you until you went all pansy in your leadership example. What the guy needs is "Hey, shithead, this crap is ruining your life, and I'm not going to keep watching it happen. Either you stop, or I'm gone." If you can get the rest of the roommates to side with you, it be comes "...you stop or you're finding a new place to ruin your life."

Don't be all nice about it, the guy needs a slap in the face, my god man give him one! He's more likely to appreciate it if he does come around if you didn't pussyfoot around the issue.

Hey, I'm on the wagon...

[micromuncher]

I started playing everquest in 2001. At first I refused to play, but friends pretty much bought the game and installed it on my PC. I refused to play because I figured I'd get addicted... and sure enough... 7 years later... I went cold turkey. There are a few things that I realized about my own addiction that helped me break it.

First, MMOs are Skinner boxes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber They let the player feel like they're accomplishing something. This is a huge motivator when in your real life, the rewards are missing from any effort. For me, I had just got divorced and had a company I help start shoot down the toilet. Suffices to say, I was at a motivational low.

So, to figure out the trap (Skinner box), you need to figure out how to get the rewards in real life that are missing. A psychologist might suggest sitting with your friend and actually setting achievable, short term, real world goals. Even if it is as simple as going for a 30 minute walk. Then emphasize the "Hey, I did something today." You might even want to try something that gives other rewards, like adrenaline, through running, or some sport.

Next, there was the social aspect. People in MMOs believe the social context missing from their lives is real - that you actually have friends in the game. This is pretty far from the truth. Sure, I got to know a few people well in my EQ experience, but not one of them has participated in a relationship outside the game. So, some brutal realities there...

Anyway, I've been EQ free over six months. I refuse to play another MMO, ever. When you look at the total time played, and you see that you've been online 300+ days... ask the question, if you had a year of time back, what would you do with it? Sit in front of a computer screen like a zombie? Or actually try accomplish something. People often say they don't have time for stuff. Pretty sobering to look at some metrics. And real addicts underestimate how much time they play.

Your friend has to want help

[microbox]

Persistence. Intervene adn then do not stop.

This is /terrible/ advise: dangerous, unethical, and inconsistent with human nature.

There is lots of research on addictions, and there's lots of ways to approach treatment, but *nothing* works unless your friend asks for help. That has to be the first step. It's nothing personal, just something to do with the way the brain processes information about the self. Any action you take will elicit defence mechanisms if it is based on downward social comparison.

My advise is to go talk to a clinical psychologist about your friends case. They may be able to suggest appropriate reading materials, or communication strategies.

I am dedicated to helping people and understanding the human mind - it's a passion for me, and why I returned to school after working for years as a programmer. In my experience, the only way to truly help someone is to get to know them better, without any sense of agenda.

Re:Your friend has to want help

[Taevin]

I think by "inconsistent with human nature" he was referring to the reaction of the addicted. That is, he is saying that removing the object of addiction will trigger a defensive response which is in all likelihood not what you want. When you place someone on the defensive, you become the enemy and they are not likely to trust you or your motivations.

I agree that it makes sense from the perspective of everyone around the addicted to remove the source of the problem. It's entirely logical to prevent further harm by removing a source of it and, as you said, it's the first step on the road to recovery. The problem is the addicted person is not thinking rationally and does not see reality the way you or anyone else does.

So, I would say it might be unethical to force your will upon an addicted person in the sense that it may/will cause more harm than good. I don't think anyone would think you're being unethical for wanting to help a friend though. It's just that sometimes to help people you have to throw out what you want and what makes sense to you in order to do what's best for them.


*It should be obvious for Slashdot postings, but I am in no way trained in psychology or counseling. However, the above is consistent with everything I've been told by professionals. Let your friend know you are worried about him but let him come to you (and then you lead him to a professional). Forcing your way into his business will only lead to him becoming defensive or much much worse depending on his psychological state.

Re:Your friend has to want help

[rpillala]

I did a little reading just now about social comparisons. Your post made me think that a good approach to lifting the guy out of this situation would be to ask his advice about some of those things that he was expert on before. Even better if you can get him to come with you someplace to help you make a decision about something. This doesn't have the effect of eliciting a downward social comparison and might remind him of the other things he values.

And, it's not harmful to try it, right?

IRL

[noz]

I have this friend IRL right and he's so attached his education that his not living life. He sacrifices any bit of fun for it. He gets up around 9am, calls his mum in Denver, and then hits the books until about 3am only leaving his desk to put a piece of cheese on some bread and maybe take a shit. His desk is totally littered with empty energy drink bottles and sometimes he pisses in an empty instead of getting up to go to the bathroom. Once he accidentally drank a recycled one and just vomited in another.

There's this pirate game right, it's awesome! Swashbuckling and harrr! Open seas! Booty! Awesomez!!! and I've tried to bring it up with him every now and again but my suggestions are always met with derision and anger. "You're sleeping your future away with that crap!" he'll yell. He can't see that he's missing out on all this fun with his addiction to success.

I've tried using wake-on-LAN and changing his home page but it just won't work. What can I do to help him?

Re:IRL

[MindlessAutomata]

Mod AC up, funny.

Re:IRL

[leathered]

I bet your life has been ruined by that constant whooshing noise above your head.

Get his attention somehow, and keep doing it.

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife would tell you that it took many interventions over a long period of time to finally get me to see the light about my gaming addiction. I had it mildly compared to what I've been reading. While it ultimately had to be my decision, I never would have made it without her intervening and showing me how my addiction affected her and our relationship in general. Crying helped a lot, but that might be awkward in your case...

Some of the advice about leaving him alone because he's an adult is ridiculous. If you care it's worth intervening (obviously you do considering your post), and he'll thank you for it eventually even though he might hate you for it short term. But even if you lose his friendship, it would be worth it in the long run if he breaks his addiction. He's throwing away his life.

I would try to convince him to take a vacation for a while...2 weeks maybe. Hopefully it will end up feeling like a vacation to him. If you can spare the time, keep him busy and social and possibly make it impossible to log on (go out of town with him). You'll probably need to pull him away many times before he sees the light. I would also put some material on addictive behavior in front of him. Being compared to a gambling addict or a drug addict helped open my eyes too.

I don't recommend doing anything sneaky like others have recommended (like cutting out his internet access). That's just going to put barriers up and he'll close you off.

Make sure his parents know

[readin]

Make sure his parents know. It sounds corny, but no one in the world loves that boy more than his parents. No one cares about him more than his parents. If you can contact them anonymously, that would be best. But if you can't do anonymously, do it anyway. The addiction you describe is serious. Once you've made sure his parents know, then start thinking about the other techniques.

My addiction

[duke_cheetah2003]

Speaking as a MMO addict myself, as well as an addict of other things. I'm in recovery from my addiction to alcohol. I still play one MMO, but I moderate my time online now.

Your friend must first realize his addiction and want help. Until that's happens, the most you can do is get out of the way while his addiction drags him down.

If you're enabling him to continue his addiction, then you need to evaluate your own situation.

The tried and true method of fighting addiction...

[Xaer0cool]

Just as heroin was developed to get soldiers off morphine, you need to get your friend on something stronger than pirates. The only thing stronger than pirates? Ninjas.

Re:Don't bother

[db32]

I am sorry for you. I really am. This kind of callous and shallow behavior shown by so many people saying "fuck him" "not your problem" and so on is EXACTLY why our society is so totally fucked right now. People have problems, serious ones. In fact, most people have serious problems at some point or another, the fact that everyone around them is so shallow and callous that they abandon them in their time of need is what makes our entire society fall the fuck apart.

Will you ever need people that are that dedicated to your well being in your life? Maybe not, if you don't you are pretty lucky. However, just knowing that you have people standing next to you that WILL march into hell to save you is invaluable. I have been that person before, and the one I tried to help hated me for it...for a while. However, now I have someone that I *KNOW* will always be there if I need them, and who has no problem calling me out on the carpet if I start going down a bad path. The pinnacle of arrogance is not so much believing that you can never make a mistake in your own life or go down those roads, but that you will know when you are doing it. Sometimes it takes someone close to you to give you that swift kick in the jimmy to let you know you are doing something stupid.

Additionally, I think being one of your "friends" would be depressing. Knowing that if my life goes foul for some reason and I start making bad choices, that I will be abandoned rather than helped. That kind of thing is typically what feeds directly into suicidal thoughts during the aftermath of some kind of traumatic event. Maybe this guy isn't just making stupid choices and addicted to a game. Maybe he just lost a family member, maybe he found out someone close to him has cancer, etc, etc, etc, and he is looking for an escape. The people that will make an impact in his life are the ones that will press the issue and help him. The reality is, half the time, you don't have to march into hell, you just have to let them know that you are ready to do that.

Your definition of friend seems to be pretty watered down. I call those people acquaintances, not friends. Friends are the people that WILL go to hell and back for you, and that you will go to hell and back for.

Re:violent?

[Jerf]

Ah, the I want you to hit me as hard as you can approach?

The answer to gaming addiction is more games

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to be hooked on WoW. Got to a pretty high level, and then realized something. I hadn't beaten a game in ages, and at the rate I was going, I never would. There were still all these awesome games coming out that I wanted to play, but they weren't WoW.

Then I took a good hard look at what I was doing in WoW. I was killing enemies repeatedly, picking up items I didn't care about, to fulfill quests I didn't care about. I realized the game was inferior in storyline and gameplay to modern console games. The one thing it had going for it was that I could chat with people. But then again, that wasn't happening much.

So, one day, I chose to try out some other game that I bought a long time before, but never got around to playing. It wasn't a completely cold turkey experience, but I found I was having more fun with the other game than with WoW. Signing onto WoW turned into a chore that I felt obligated to do every once in a while. And then one day, I realized I hadn't signed on in a month.

Fast forward a couple of years. I still enjoy other non-MMO games. Sometimes I get hooked, but it's over in a week or two. Then I have a sense of completion, and socialize for a while before deciding on the next game to conquer.

So, long story short, determine what it is that your friend likes about this game, and find a non-MMO that does it better. Get him hooked on that, and he'll see what he's missing. He'll be able to live a more healthy gaming life in the end.

Read BigRedKitty

[Sean0michael]

Have him read this:

Big Red Kitty: Farewell and Thank You

A few posts down is the end of a very famous and highly-regarded WoW blogger. He realized that he had completely neglected his wife and son for years. WoW was his "mistress" and he was an addict, like your friend. Tell him "Don't be like this guy." This guy would easily tell you that real people are a lot more important than the game. As soon as that game goes end-of-life, what will he have? Not even a friend.

If he doesn't respond, you and your housemates ought to save his life -- not an exaggeration. Find a way to cut off his connection to the Internet at the house. Hide his mouse. Remove his power cable, or cut the fuses to that part of the house. Let him borrow your computer for whatever he needs to do for homework.

He may hate you, but you are doing the right thing. He may not see it, but his vision is clearly messed up. Best of luck to you.

Actually, sex won't help (True, unfunny story)

[kklein]

You're joking, but I'm serious: This probably won't work.

I was in exactly the same position as the poster when I was in college (EverQuest). My best friend from the time I was 5 just disappeared. He stopped going to classes, he stopped sleeping normal times (at least this guy seems to have a schedule--my friend was on a totally strange cycle that seemed to rotate). He only ate leftovers or other stuff that he could bring up to his room. Until this time, he and I always used to trade off cooking dinner and actually sit down for dinner each night. He was, in a very real sense, like a brother. Closer than my actual brother, really. I considered his parents basically another set in addition to my own, and the families were very close.

Anyway, I'll never forget the morning that his girlfriend--another old friend of mine--showed up at our place one morning to try to drag him out. He wouldn't even come to his door. She just kept pleading at the door, becoming more frantic. They'd been together for years. Finally she said, "So, you want me to leave?" "Yes." "If I leave, I'm never coming back, is that okay with you?" "...Yes."

She was devastated. I spend the rest of the day taking care of her. She left that evening after I made her dinner, and I think that's the last time I ever saw her.

My friend just continued this "life" style, even as I called his parents and asked for their help. They couldn't get him to quit. He flunked out of his classes, and his parents stopped giving him money for rent and food (he had been paying his share all this time, which was nice--I'd leave a note for what he owed and there'd be a check there in the morning). Finally I had to evict him (my parents owned the place and we rented from them). It was heartbreaking; he wasn't showering and I had to air that room out for a week. He was pale and emaciated. Just totally a different person (he was a long-distance runner, always in way better shape than me--we were on the cross-country team in high school together--fun times).

He moved into his parents basement, and they tried to kick him out a few times, but basically their conscience wouldn't let them. This went on for at least another year at their place. I got updates on his "condition" through my dad, who had lunch with his dad (and some of the other guys from around town) every Friday.

Then one day, he comes upstairs and says to his dad "I canceled my account. I'm going for a run."

Now he's addicted to long-distance running, and is finally finishing his degree. There was a period for a few years before he started school again where he worked at a shoe store part time (I'm pretty sure he ran out of his large savings--"frugal" has never been the word for his level of financial conservativeness--by paying all those months of EQ bills). Despite these positive steps, though, our friendship is completely broken. I've tried to hang out with him a few times since that time, but he's just different. I don't know him. He's gone.

So what I'm saying is this: I don't think there's anything the poster can do. This addiction won't kill the guy, though, so that's good, but I think that what stops him will probably be running out of money or something along those lines. He's not going to get better, I don't think. He's just one of those people who gets addicted to things. Probably some form of OCD or something. Just give up and focus on your own studies. He's gone.

Re:Actually, sex won't help (True, unfunny story)

[SatanicPuppy]

Meh.

Addiction is addiction, whether to drugs, women, or games.

The only thing you really need to know, is that there is almost nothing you can do if it's someone else. They have to come to a place within themselves where they don't want to be like that anymore. Once they're there, they can quit. If they never get there, they will never be able to quit. Ever.

Just be honest. Tell them you think they're fucking up their life. Don't be afraid to tell them exactly how disgusting you think they are. It may sink in. It may not. Even if it doesn't, at least you'll be able to face yourself afterward.

Re:Actually, sex won't help (True, unfunny story)

[cjfs]

Then one day, he comes upstairs and says to his dad "I canceled my account. I'm going for a run."

A glorious story of triumph in the face of adversity. Everyone working against him, trying to make him quit, but he stuck with it and ultimately emerged victorious. Seeing "The End." come up on the screen must have been a moment for the ages.

Re:Actually, sex won't help (True, unfunny story)

[kklein]

Surely with hindsight you can think of something?

Actually, yes I can.

If I could do it all again, I would have listened to him when he said he didn't want to start playing because he was afraid he wouldn't be able to stop, instead of pressuring him to pick it up so we could play together. =(

Re:Actually, sex won't help (True, unfunny story)

[ahabswhale]

Having dealt with addiction in myself (twice) and once in a good friend, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that there's absolutely nothing you can do (not legally anyway). The person has to hit bottom. "Bottom" means different things to different people so some have to pretty much ruin their lives before they straighten up but in the end, the person who is addicted has to want to fix it before you can do anything. Addiction is a like a short circuit or malfunction in the brain, rationality has nothing to do with it and you cannot rationalize with an addicted person who has not realized they have a problem, nor can you make them see the problem. One day, the light bulb will come on but until then, you're screwed. The only thing you can do is not help them feed their addiction in any way (like giving them money). The faster they hit bottom, the better.

Re:Actually, sex won't help (True, unfunny story)

[aleatory_story]

I was addicted to EverQuest throughout all of high school. I pretty much missed that _entire_ time of social development. I wanted to avoid it, and EQ made it easy. EQ was the kind of game where you could sit there and do your homework while your group was meditating. I still kept my attendance up and had good grades. I just avoided social interaction.

I had parents and friends tell me that it was a bad idea, but I just turned on my defense mechanisms. It was Them Versus Me. By taking that approach, they became the bad guys. They became someone who doesn't understand because they didn't understand.

The only person who *might* be able to get through to your friend in a direct way is former MMO addict. But of course, as it's been reiterated on here plenty of times, the only one who can truly get through is the addict himself.

In my situation, it was a mixture of things that got me over my addiction. Firstly, the game started to get old. I tried other games like Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, SWG, etc. These continued my addiction for a while longer. But eventually you find the same things in every game and they just keep getting more boring.

Secondly, I started to really re-evaluate myself and what I was doing with my life. I knew I was a social misfit and that had to be fixed. When I started college, I quit my games and started on a clean slate. I developed for a while and it was going great. I was making some real progress. I even got a girlfriend that my friends gawked at.

Then EverQuest 2 came out. Yeah. I went back. It was a relapse, you could say. I went back to my habits of nothing but gaming. I still kept up with my school work but I avoided my girlfriend. Eventually, she gave me the ultimatum of her or the game. I tried to convince her that it was only temporary and that I'd be over it soon, but she wouldn't listen to that. So, I chose the game. I told myself 'I don't want a girlfriend who would give me an ultimatum like that. I want someone more patient.' In retrospect, I know it sounds pretty stupid. This is just how I reassured myself as I continued to play EQ2. It's just how the defense mechanisms work.

I regretted that decision for a long while, though. Eventually, as I expected, I got bored of EQ2. And WoW. And all the other games that were popular around 2004. Eventually *none* of them sparked my interest. I graduated from college and started a job. By that time, I was totally done with MMOs and I haven't looked back.

So, to sum up: it sometimes unfortunately takes big life transitions like going from college to a career to really wake someone up. Right now, in their life, they are at a point where they are content. They enjoy their games. You cannot argue this with them because it will only make it worse. You can only try to be subtle about it. Try to make them jealous. Bring over hot girls that they can't have. Go on trips with your buddies and come back and tell him how awesome it was. He won't be receptive at first--not at all. He will have some clever retort. But you will have planted the seed of corruption. Eventually, when he's tossing and turning trying to sleep, these things will eat at him.... not that I speak from experience in this department =x

Eventually, he'll get over it. Fortunately, MMO addictions are a lot easier to recover from than drug addictions. They can ruin lives just as well, but fortunately once you get a taste of some good fun in real life, you quickly forget why the hell you were playing those games in the first place.

Re:Actually, sex won't help (True, unfunny story)

[Veggiesama]

Then one day, he comes upstairs and says to his dad "I canceled my account. I'm going for a run."

Relax. As soon as he finds his body, he'll be ready to play again.

Re:Actually, sex won't help (True, unfunny story)

[wintermute000]

You've hit the nail on the head.
- they have to WANT to quit themselves
- you can only be open and honest with them, any attempt to be master armchair psychological manipulator will only backfire and is also a bit arrogant / condescending. Then again I'm one of those blunt people who sometimes puts their foot in their mouth doing nothing more than telling the truth lol. But there's not a lot wrong with just laying it all out for him, you don't have to be confrontational or judgemental, just point out the facts to him calmly and reasonably, and don't get drawn into an argument.

As a friend you want to help them, but really they have to want to help themselves. If they don't then there's not a lot you can do. At some point, cutting and running IS the right thing to do for you. God knows I've wasted large chunks of my life standing by, and tolerating insane amounts of BS (not just talking, actual BS events and things they'd do which I had to clean up afterwards, also copping flak from other people due to guilt by association etc.) from people who were fundamentally wallowing in their own problems/misery/self inflicted issues. If they don't want to help themselves then you're wasting your time.

Seek professional resources to help you with this

[snStarter]

Having a friend on such a deep and downward spiral is difficult to watch. Clearly, since you're asking here, you care. I'm assuming your educational institution has mental health professionals. Make an appointment and talk to one of them - about how YOU feel about this and what you are experiencing. They have a lot more experience with this and, unlike virtually anyone whose postings I have read so far, actual training. You can get insight into the problem, understand the pressures and the meaning of it for you, and understand what you may need to do. This might help you engage with him and help him out.

I'm glad you care enough to ask. Good luck

I had a friend in the same situation in college...

[AmbianceForce]

...and here is the story. Take what you will from it. At the time MMORPGs were called MUSHs and MOOs. A friend in college started logging into one and we all joined in the fun. That's what it was, a bit of fun. Unfortunately, while we did it with some pizza for an hour or two every few nights, he started playing more and more. Eventually, he never left the computer lab. He wouldn't go to the cafeteria for meals, instead eating only junk out of the vending machine just outside the lab. His roommate would go days without seeing him as he would simply snooze for an hour or so in the corner of the lab. He would even avoid showers until he stunk so bad he was dragged from the computer lab. We tried everything. We tried to get him to go to class; he wouldn't. We tried to get him to get out and see a movie; he wouldn't. We even tried to get him to come to dinner with his girlfriend who he didn't even talk to anymore; he wouldn't. After about 4 weeks of this, we finally went to the dean of students and explained the situation. His network access was disconnected and the student psychologist and the dean paid him a visit. They gracefully removed him from his currently enrolled classes so his GPA wouldn't take a nose dive should he pull himself back together again, contacted his family, located a local therapist for him, and sent him home. We all basically lost contact with him until he wrote his former girlfriend a year later and thanked us for doing what we did. He did eventually pull himself together and returned to school at another university. I don't know what ever happened to him after that. Anyway, that's my story.

How I got out

[Anonymous Coward]

Anon Coward to protect my professional rep

I was there. I had lost my job, got caught in in SWG and Anarchy Online, became an ARK (AO volunteer GM). I was spending over 60 hrs/wk doing that, ignoring my job search, ignoring my fiance.

One day, I realized I was in danger of losing the love of my life. I resigned from ARK, shut down my SWG account, and turned myself around.

These days I'm a 100K+ manager, married to the aforementioned love, and we have our daughter.

My addiction could have taken this all away from me. At the end of the day, change has to come from inside yourself. Your friends and family can give you their points of view, but trying to fix other people is a losing game. I know from trying to fix an alcoholic farther. The only one you can fix is yourself.

AC

Nothing you can do.

[kwabbles]

Having just lost my wife to a 16-hour-per-day WoW addiction, I finally realized after the past two years that if they don't want to help themselves there's nothing you can do for them. I tried everything I could think to do, and every attempt to "save" her only made her more angry and resentful which fed the addiction even more. Finally I just put my foot down and said "no more" - and she left.

Unfortunately I've found that my story is all too common lately. I've had family members that were hopelessly addicted to street drugs and alcohol - and this is no different. Same behavior, same problem. They even show physical symptoms of addiction, and go through withdrawal when it's not available to them.

I think we're all in for a whole new world of things to be addicted to as more options are available to technologically "escape reality". I wouldn't be surprised if within 10 years gaming and "virtual reality" addiction are an epidemic out of control.

I wish you and your friend all the best, and hopefully he snaps out of it and gets help. Don't push him and don't give him any more cause to be resentful - just be there for him when he decides to come back to Earth.

Girlfriend is not enough!

[StCredZero]

I have a girlfriend, and no, it's not enough to get you out of an MMO addiction. It can be added incentive. Usually, you have to wait until it starts hurting their job and their wallet. If that doesn't do it, good luck!

Re:Girlfriend is not enough!

[drinkypoo]

If your girlfriend can't compete with a MMO, she's not trying. Whether she should be trying to make it work is another subject and varies based on situation. Usually, though, the MMORPG is a symptom, not the disease itself.

Re:Girlfriend is not enough!

[Socguy]

If your girlfriend can't compete with a MMO, she's not trying. Whether she should be trying to make it work is another subject and varies based on situation. Usually, though, the MMORPG is a symptom, not the disease itself.

The Girlfriend doesn't compete WITH the MMO, the Girlfriend joins and tags along IN the MMO. Once inside the game, she will alienate him from his merry band of adventurers by complaining that he doesn't spend enough alone time with her in the game. Eventually he will throw himself into his schoolwork just to get away from her for a few hours.

Re:Girlfriend is not enough!

[fractoid]

Girlfriend definitely cuts down the play time but you can still play when she's not around (or when she's asleep, if you live together). The only thing that can really help you quit, though, is getting bored with the game. I've been playing WoW since three months after release, and in that time I've:

• Spent two months playing obsessively, 18 hours a day
• Gone cold turkey and went travelling, not played the game for 6 months
• Played fairly obsessively again for a couple of months while looking for work
• Virtually stopped playing when I met my wife
• Got slowly back into the game

I only play maybe 10-20 hours a week now, mostly on the weekends. It's still fun, so I still play, but it's slowly getting boring, so I don't know if I'll last to the next expansion.

When it comes down to it, the only people I know who've quit ANY addiction are the ones who want to quit.

Re:Girlfriend is not enough!

[DrLang21]

The girlfriend would have to compete with generic addiction. In that battle, the girlfriend usually loses.

A very unusual WoW addict

[Brewmeister_Z]

My next door neighbors are a retired man (in his 70s) and his wife. He started playing WoW this past winter. He told me his highest character is a 62 and he has a few others as well. I think his grandson got him started on the game. I would say he is officially addicted since he has just bought a second computer so he can play 2 characters at the same time.

However, he has the advantage of not having to work anymore and the only major thing this could be negative toward is the relationship with his wife. Makes me wonder what it will be like when people my age (30s) get to retirement. Imagine a nursing home being like a 24/7 LAN party!

I used to play WoW and other MMOs but then I got a girlfriend and now I am married. I don't really miss it. When I do go back to play or see what is new in the updates, it doesn't draw me in the way it used to.

Breaking the Cycle

[AtomicSnarl]

He's playing the game because it gives him something he can't find or get enough of in Real Life. Behind the keyboard he can be daring, bold, brave, clever, and receive a regular helping of the success, joy, and adulation that come with those things. There are puzzles to solve, people to help (damsels in distress?), buds to hang with, and he can get it all, now.

How can Real Life compete with that? What are those things that make life worth living if the computer is more validating than your regular existence? That's the problem. Real Life becomes a maintenance issue serving to allow time with The Game. Now you are dependent on the game -- You're avoiding the Real Life stuff, The Game has become your buffer, your filter, your shield -- You are addicted. You don't merely need it, you require it. The Game is How you Live.

What now? The Game is dominant, but it's skills don't translate much to Real Life. Trying to deal with Real Life is an embarrassment. It doesn't work the way The Game does -- no reset, second chances, saves, spells -- you can't get and keep the upper hand. The physics don't match, the interactions aren't predictable, and you can't hide behind the keyboard. People see you, not your avatar. How can you live up to that? Why don't they understand? In The Game, they do...

See "Social Phobia" to appreciate how grasping at the one good (they think) thing in one's life can screw up the rest of it.

works every time

[Tablizer]

Simple, get him addicted to slashdot instead

My solutions was to cheat

[AsmordeanX]

I played WoW a lot. To the point of being unhealthy a few times. How did I get away from it? I cheated.

MMOs are hard to cheat at but a friend an I found a world emulator that was about 95% accurate. We spent the next week going everywhere, doing everything, getting everything. We made custom weapons/armour that made us walking gods. We set Illidan in a duel with Ragnaros. We swapped models so that we looked like Magmadar or C'Thun.

After a while we got bored and tried the normal game. It sucked. We couldn't one-shot things. Gold took hours/days to accumulate. Everything just seemed so tedious.

I went for three months without playing. I picked up WotLK and played for a week and got bored. I uninstalled it and haven't thought about it since.

Kent

[Anonymous Coward]

I was addicted to WoW for 2 years, in the end my family sat down with me, including my older brother who I have a huge amount of respect for. And they just straight up told me I was wasting away and that I had so much potential to excel at things other than a computer game. That gave me the jolt I needed, Iogged on to my toons, de'd all the decent gear, deposited it all in my guilds bank, deleted my toons one by one. That was last Friday night, the following Monday I joined them gym, have been 3 times this week as well as 2 6km runs. Lifes goood. Maybe that's what he needs? Some sort of intervention by people he respects (Family, friends, maybe an old teacher etc.)

Re:Religious Wars

[pcolaman]

Actually most "religious" wars are just conflicts over resources or land, and religion is used as an excuse.

To quote the Joker...

[petrus4]

"It's simple."

Find out what he's doing in the game, that he thinks he can't do offline, and then find a way to let him do whatever it is offline, in a way that won't interfere with his exams.

I got addicted to World of Warcraft for a while because playing a Survival Hunter allowed me to vicariously deal with my sense of inadequacy over the fact that I am unavoidably a civilian. (I've since also come to realise that having said sense of inadequacy was really dumb to begin with, but it was a childhood thing)

I was able to play a leadership role in a number of battlegrounds and instances though, and have some really positive experiences while doing so, (I was also GM of a levelling guild for a bit, which was good) which allowed me to process that neurosis, and also take from it a few elements which to some extent may have improved my personality as well.

That, however, is primarily what people get from MMORPGs, and it's the main reason why they play them. Most people are fairly disempowered and helpless offline. They might have two or three jobs, (that they usually hate) a wife and the proverbial 2.4 kids, station wagon, and labrador dog, and said existence can feel like a jail sentence, especially if you have to work long hours. They're also doing said jobs, most of the time, purely to keep their head above water. There's no creativity there, no enjoyment, and no recognition from the boss. They're not allowed to feel special, to feel like they're somebody important, or to really feel fulfilled.

But in Azeroth, (or Norrath, or $WORLD) it's different.

Offline, I'm an autistic, overweight, single, balding, largely socially isolated UNIX Beard with shortsightedness, a single kidney, and a leg length difference of three inches. I've had a single girlfriend, three years ago, which ended badly due to a combination of her and my baggage, and my father being a narcissistic, amoral, interfering $%^& as well. I largely haven't come across a single woman since who hasn't made fun of me when she's found out I'm interested in her, and whenever I've tried to interact socially with anyone else as well, or develop independence, I've usually gone fairly close to being killed as a result.

I couldn't participate in grading matches in terms of martial arts as a teenager due to said single kidney, and when someone tried to teach me one on one, because of the leg length difference I nearly dislocated my knee the first time I tried to do a kick.

In WoW, none of that matters. I have a far more attractive body, which is athletic and functions with perfect agility. I can travel anywhere I want, within a fairly large environment. Most of all, I can actually do the things that Army recruitment ads talk about, in terms of being part of a group, and eventually developing sufficient knowledge of the game to successfully and positively lead said group. I'm playing a class (the Hunter) which I love and find fulfilling, and I'm also meeting my social interaction and group belonging needs in terms of the instances and battlegrounds I do as well.

Let me ask you; out of those two scenarios, which do you think you're going to want to spend more of your time in?

The answer to that question, is also likely very similar to the reason why the guy in your example is addicted to the game that he is, as well. For some of us, real life isn't exactly a barrel of laughs.

Try blocking ports

[mshire]

I understand, had a person in my house hold doing the same thing. I found if I would block a port or two on the router that would let the game connect stay for a hour or so then let him in then block the voice chat ports this would make it harder to feel apart of the online world. Do not let him or her know what you are doing just blame it on the ISP or something like that. The hope is that the lunching of the game and playing gets hard and hard they start to loss interest. Good luck, MMO are hard to break then drugs.

Unless the GF gets addicted too

[Moraelin]

Actually, you may be surprised to learn that women get addicted to gaming just as easily.

A pretty surrealistic attempt at a relationship in late high school went nowhere fast after I showed her a computer game. Her parents didn't have or want a computer, for whatever reason. (Presumably also because back then they cost a lot more and did a lot less, so it wasn't really mainstream yet.) I figure it didn't take more than an hour or two for her to become interested in the computer instead of me. She only wanted to come over, play a game all afternoon, then go back home.

(Cue wisecracks about the computer having a nicer personality than me;)

Plus, probably the best example of a MMO addict I know is... mom. Last I heard, she's sleeping about 4 hours a night 'cause any more and she can't do all her daily quests for that day. So, you know, you would have thought she'd get dad off it, but she actually got more addicted.

Bittorrent Therapy.

[ShakaUVM]

>>That's pretty much the only solution.

Is it? I was thinking that if you were an addict's roommate, you could play games with the router to suck all the fun out of an MMORPG. Hell, just a latency of 800ms and 25% packet loss makes any game feel like pulling teeth. Or if you don't want to make it obvious that you're messing with him, ~450ms and 25% packet loss. It'll become so frustrating it will no longer be fun. And for all the talk about addicts and addictive behavior, at the heart of it, people play MMORPGS because (they think) they're having fun.

And if you don't know how to mess with a router, or you don't have root access to it? Bittorrent. Seriously.

When I was playing a lot of WoW, whenever my roommate started downloading whatever it was he was downloading behind a locked door, I'd have to shut down the game. If it went on for more than a day or so, then I'd escalate to rebooting the router, unplugging his ethernet line, etc., which is why I'd recommend making sure the person conducting the "intervention" keep the router in a locked cabinet or room.

Professional gaming

[elucido]

What we need to do is pay people to play games. Make a profession out of it, and promote the growth of ARGs.

Obsessive - Compulsive

[AtomicSnarl]

Ah, but you did hit bottom. Your fear of changing was overcome by your fear of NOT changing! Obsession is overwhelmed by compulsion -- the need to make the pain you saw in others go away. In short, your motivations changed for the better! Well done!

The only issues in helping another hit bottom is how hard and how fast. You're not out to ruin them -- they've done that to themselves already. You're out to help them see, as happened to you. And they're not going to like what they see, ever. That's the point.

Re:Religious Wars

[pcolaman]

If there wasn't religion, another excuse would be made. People feel better about themselves if they are fighting for what seems to be a noble cause. If it wasn't religion, it'd be racial harmony or something else. (and it often has been something else when it wasn't religion).

LSD therapy

[pbaer]

This will be controversial but hear me through. Assuming he doesn't have any medical conditions that make it dangerous for him to take LSD, get him some. The basic idea behind this is the psychedilic helps him hit rock bottom, so he wants to change his life. It worked pretty well for treating alcoholism before LSD was banned.

Handbook for the Therapeutic Use of LSD-25

Level 99 is the problem

[failedlogic]

The fuel to the fire in EQ is the idea of the (almost) unattainable unless you play for a serious amount of time: the level 99 character. So the first say 10 levels you can get to in 10 hours of gameplay (I played about that much and quit, think I was at level 12). But here comes the addictive part, you have to get all the way to level 99 (if I remember this is easily over 1000 hours). The addict tell himself they have to finish everything including level 99 another class, complete all quests, get best equipment. The level 99 is the sand trap. If I recall, there was an expansion pack when EQ first came out that bumped it up to level 120. Lord knows, its probably up to 200 or 10,000 (?!) by now.

I think the addiction factor would be halved if the characters were maxed at level 30 which would take 40 hours of gameplay which is not good business?

I had a long-time friend about 7 years ago who was (and probably still is) addicted to Everquest, if not he's moved on to WOW. He played all waking hours on EQ. He would research and print out boatloads on strategies, quests, characters, bad guys .... you name it. This would happen during downtime at work, on break and after work. I think this was also because he didn't have a printer at home. After he got back from work he told me he'd have supper then play EQ until 2 or 3 am - sometimes longer. He usually showed up to work real tired.

Remove access

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep breaking his computer until he comes clean. He'll run out of money eventually! Just make sure you won't get caught ;-)

Sources of Help

[J. D'Oe6]

I think that, as a friend, you should do whatever you reasonably can to help him. If I am aware of problems that my friends have, that is what I try to do, and would hope that my friends do that for me as well. Nonetheless, if the person is in denial and severely addicted, you may not be able to help much.

However, remember that you are far from alone and that there are many sources of help available for both you and your friend. This Slashdot site is one of them, but some other good ones that I am aware of are On-Line Gamers Anonymous (OLGA) at http://www.olganon.org/ , Gamer Widow at http://gamerwidow.com/ (note that despite it's name, it also has support for gamers as well), DailyStrength Video Game Addiction (VGA) support group at http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Video-Game-Addiction/support-group , and WoW Detox at http://www.wowdetox.com/ . I am a recovering video game addict myself. For me, I used counseling from a friend as well as the OLGA Website (such as informally following their 12 steps) and, to a lesser extent, the DailyStrength one.

Note that even if you cannot get your friend to directly get help himself, the first 2 sites listed above (i.e., OLGA and Gamer Widow) have sections specifically for family and friends of gamers. I am sure that you can find something already previously posted that would be useful, or can get specific help by repeating your query.

Is the MMO really the problem?

[Drakkenmensch]

Or is it just the symptom? My experience with MMO addiction comes not from the game itself, but rather is a manifestation of there being a massive void in my life that the game naturally fills out without judgement or mockery. It just accepts, and gives me what I need so badly that I can't get in the real world, be it adventure, social contact or a sense of achievement. If you want to help your friend get away from the game, you must figure out which of these things he derives from the game and not from his real life, then help him obtain it from a non-gaming source. Short of that, learn to speak in pirate speech, I guess.