Slashdot Mirror
How To Help a Friend With an MMO Addiction?
sammydee writes "I have a friend who is addicted to an MMO (Pirates of the Burning Sea). On a typical day, he will wake up around 9am, browse the forums for a bit, then go online and stay online all day, playing until about 3am the following morning, taking only toilet breaks and stopping to eat ready-meals. While the rest of the house works hard revising for exams, this friend will be playing his MMO instead. Now, I am pretty confident that this comprises an unhealthy addiction; unfortunately, I have no idea what to do about it. Any attempt to physically prevent him from playing the game would most likely result in an outburst of anger and possibly physical violence. Attempts at telling him he has a problem have been met with derision and angry retorts. Slashdotters, what would you do to help out a friend in this situation? Perhaps you are a reformed addict yourself — if so, how did you break out of the habit? Or maybe I should just leave well enough alone and allow him to continue? Any thoughts are gratefully received."
Get him a girlfriend.
That's pretty much the only solution.
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Slashdotters, what would you do to help out a friend in this situation?
I used to live in a bad part of the Franklin neighborhood in Minneapolis. As I pulled up next to my house, two squad cars were parked in a V in my front lawn with their cherries on. I had just worked until 2am at a parking garage on the U of MN campus. There was an adolescent in front of my house being stared down by a policeman. As I walked up the cop was staring him down and holding a bag of weed saying very loudly and very forcefully, "... yeah? And what skills you got? What has this shit been doing for you? How long have you been using? What are you going to do when you're a grown up providing for yourself?"
... but maybe they aren't. I know how someone would approach me about this, they wouldn't try to stop me. Instead, they--being my friends--would appeal to things they know that matter to me. I'll try to list them in order that I think you can evoke a reaction from your friend:
While that's a lot more melodramatic than you need to be, you can put your friend in the same situation.
A man's got priorities. Your friend's sound screwed up
I've seen people give up several of these for an MMORPG (Star Wars Galaxies ruined lives). You need to sit down and talk to him and try to realign his priorities. You have to know him and know where he's going to bring that logic. If things don't matter to him anymore there's not a lot you can do once you've made all those appeals (and you may know more).
Slashdotters, what would you do to help out a friend in this situation? Perhaps you are a reformed addict yourself -- if so, how did you break out of the habit?
If I was spending too much time in a game it would take very little to cause me to get up and walk away: "Since you started playing that game, how much closer are you to being the person you want to be when you die?" Don't think that would work on your friend--especially if he has low self esteem.
... although I cannot fathom how that would be.
Most importantly if you convince him to stop, you need to be there for him to fill up that part of his life or to help see the value in realigning his goals.
Last thing is that if he isn't screwing up or endangering any of these things, you're going to have a hell of a hard time convincing him out of the game
My work here is dung.
Jeremy Bentham would have said he lives an idyllic life. He is generating a maximum of net pleasure.
What is it you want him to do instead?
Get some buddies, make some accounts, grief him until he quits.
Play Command HQ online
Hack his account and delete it. Keep doing it. He will figure it out eventually, just don't get caught.
When all of his "work" is destroyed, it will make it hard for him to want to continue slaving away. Keep doing it.
If he is not deterred by that at all, well then I suggest seeking professional help and at least getting an intervention started with the rest of his friends.
I learned that with my regular old drug junkie friends.
Steal the modem and hide it off-site. Then leave for a vacation.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 Whoops, silly middle mouse button...
He's addicted to being a pirate. He's too far gone to be saved...all you can do is sandbag around his computer. But when the replica cannon arrives via UPS, I suggest you leave.
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
Sounds like this is taking place in a college setting. Don't worry about it. Darwin will always win. Your MMO addict will be getting a permanent chance to play all day forever back in Mom's basement after he flunks out. It's not your problem and don't try to make it be otherwise.
'nuff said.
Sometimes one can only learn through pain...
He may have to have some consequence other than you telling him not to do it, like getting kicked out or having the electricity turned off.
I would say my peace and let him learn his lesson or break free.
Work exam material into the game and you have double good!
Really, though, wouldn't it be great if games like World of Warcraft turned into actually practical learning experiences, instead of simply forcing you to learn a lot of completely irrelevant info? Of course I haven't played a MMO(RPG) since a brief stint with Ultimate Online, so maybe kids nowadays really are studying their double-slit experiment results to level up their Quantum Photon Physics skill.
Just curious if this particular individual is a room-mate.
If so, is he paying his portion of bills/rent?
If so, leave him be. All he can hurt is himself.
If not, kick him out. Maybe he'll come to his senses.
Toilet Breaks? Tell him he's doing it wrong.
The dude doesn't even have a pod.
Why do YOU feel obligated to do something here?
Sounds like the guy is a legal adult. Aside from voicing your concerns, butt the hell out. If the dude wants to slide through the first few years of post-highschool, or whatever, it IS his choice.
Like with any addiction, change doesn't come about until the addicted WANTS it to happen. Period.
as if this isnt just a lame spam, cmon /. you know better
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/99/99onicotrel.phtml
I still don't see the problem. If he is homeless and without a computer or internet, he will no longer need to worry about being addicted to a game now will he?
Addicts need to hit bottom before you can re-rehabilitate them. Furthermore, it is not the OP's place to tell this person how to live their life. The only thing the OP can do is wait for the inevitable, and be there for this person when they do hit bottom. Any attempt to stop him from playing the game will only sour the OP's relationship with their friend.
If you believe that this is harming him then you can simply force him to stop playing. Take out the RAM of his computer, loosen the SATA cable of his HD so it doesn't detect it, if you have a in-house router simply have the router get off the internet late at night.
Considering this is a college setting though, how much is this harming him? If hes keeping up with his studies and such, well I suppose MMO addiction is a bit less harmful then drug or alcohol addiction, so it could be worse. If he isn't keeping up with his studies, well in a semester he will be gone.
Or, you can always wait it out, chances are the MMO will grow old, a few close online "friends" of his will get a life and stop coming on, it will charge players more money, etc. Then he will naturally just get bored and quit.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
You don't understand addiction if you think it something to be fought with logical persuasion. And you are probably normal in saying to ditch him, but really, I'm disgusted by how callous people are today. Friendships and relationships involve a little inconvenience, not just saying, 'well, I told him it's a bad idea, fuck him!'
I had a friend in college who was addicted to an MMO - not quite at the hours you describe, but not far off. Every semester when finals came around, we tried to tear him away from his computer and help him study, but he never listened. When convincing/arguing/pleading failed (and eventually, it always failed), we would hide or break his game CDs, but he would buy, pirate, borrow, or otherwise find a new copy. He failed out of school.
Seek professional help. Talk to the counselors at your school.
I know a guy who had a pretty comfortable life. Nice house, pretty wife, three kids, good job, the whole shootin' match... and on top of that, he was the classic "undeserving" guy... didn't really know that much but was able to convince people that knew far less than him that he was quite adept. (We've all seen this and hated them for it yes?) Well this guy got into Diablo and literally let his life fall apart. He lost his job and couldn't keep one. Lost his wife and kids. Lost his house. Not sure what he is up to these days but he has definitely not owned up to his weakness. He probably plays WOW or something else now but I can't imagine that he has figured out where his life had gone wrong yet.
Some people have it in their heads, especially when they are in their mid 40s, that they are an adult and you can't tell them how to live their lives... it's his choice and he is happy where he us. (you know he's not though, not when you see everything he has lost in favor of his gaming addiction... one particular low point was when he landed a date with a hit young woman in her mid 20s. Who knows what she was thinking or what he said to spoil it, but she announced she thought of him as a "father figure" and that was pretty much the end of that... didn't handle rejection well and got himself drunk enough that he woke up on his front lawn having pissed himself completely and no idea how he even got home to begin with... the guy is a mess and his brain is hard wired to making stupid decisions.)
While I would LOVE to find a magic answer to help THIS guy out, I don't think there is any such way.
I've gone through a number of online games and have found that the easiest way to tear myself away from them [permanently] is to find what kept me there and disable it. In one case, what kept me there all day was that I enjoyed talking to the people. I spoke to a few of them and had myself permanently banned from the guild. Sure, I could still talk to them elsewhere, but it kept me off the game which made me marginally more productive. (And, for a few of them, since I was no longer in the loop, we found each other mutually less interesting.)
Is to show him there is a live outside. Trying to verbally convince him he's wasting his life is a waste of yours. Find out what he's interested in (besides that MMO), and take him along to an event he likes.
The only think that broke me away from a 4 year World of Warcraft addiction was a long vacation. After spending two weeks in Japan, I realized that I didn't need WoW and was missing out on a whole world real life adventure. The only other thing I can think of is a girlfriend but that isn't likely to happen given your friend never leaves the computer. Vacation away from home is your best bet.
My suggestion would be, in one of the breif moments when he's off the game, get him to just come and talk to you, heck maybe even get some of your other friends to join, and keep him occupied in a social discussion for an hour or two to at least break the cycle once in a while. If that doesn't have a lasting effect, just talk to him by himself and say you're concerned about his wellbeing, ask him if he wants to spend all his life eating ready meals and sitting in front of a computer like a zombie.
Usually any addiction is a sign of something missing from the persons life, if you can find out what that is, maybe you can help him get over the cause rather than the effect.
As reluctant as one might be to hack an on-line account, it could be necessary to show hard love.
One might not even consider a game a worthy addiction of concern.
However, the parent post contains the #1 bit of advice anyone serious about an intervention to any addiction should be equipped with.
Persistence. Intervene adn then do not stop. As futile as it may feel, never use failure as a reason to quit the fight. As hopeless as it seems, never stop.
Think of it as a challenge to yourself, because it may be more difficult a challenge than even many addicts have seen.
If it helps, know that even if you never succeed it was worth the effort. Because, if the lost soul ever leaves, it will do so with the single good thought that someone cared (even if they themselves didn't).
Try to see the glass half full here..Surely there is a thesis in here about his gaming Experiences somewhere. Get him stared slowly..A treatment to present to a professor perhaps. Cutting off the internet to the house might be another solution...a number of "technical difficulties" might drive him to get his fix at a coffee shop or the like..where he might interact with real people..it's very easy to become a hermit when home has everything you need.
I Need someone to rebuild a Digitech Digital Delay pedal for me....for me...for me...for me.
Though I hate to agree with shrinks, most believe these days that one CAN get addicted to video games, at least psychologically. Basically, just like gambling, same effect, same thing going on in the brain, and just as hard to kick. Basically, if it is having a detrimental effect on his life, health, both physical and/or mental, and if this person is someone you care about, a friend, there is sadly, very little you can do. Trust me, talking doesn't help, telling them they are ruining their life does less than help. I am a recovering addict, I know. Pretty much the only thing you CAN do is perhaps an intervention, talk to his family, other friends, find substance abuse councilor and get advice from them. ANY aa,NA, rehab center will have a good list of people who know about this, call them. Basically, you have to treat it like a gambling addiction. If you really are concerned, the best bet is his family and a councilor, together maybe you can get him to at least think about the fact that he might have a problems. Realistically though, if someone does have a problem like this, there is little one can do unless the person is willing to seek help. It is a helpless feeling I know.
Its possible that he is not so forcefully drawn to the game, but rather, that he's trying to avoid some other problem in his life. If you can figure out what that problem is, it might help you deal with the situation.
The fact that everyone at your place is studying for exams suggests one item: he may just not want to deal with studying for finals. The question is why? Is he in danger of flunking out? If so, get him to see the logic of meeting with the professor to see if he can take an incomplete and then take the final later - and then get tutoring pronto.
Put a linux box between him and the internet and setup packet shaping.
Create a script that lets him play for so many hours, then slowly degrade the quality of the connection until he quits in frustration.
Start at 2am, and slowly move it back each day until he is only playing a few hours a day.
Your friend feels trapped for some reason and this game is their escape.
Sit down with your friend for a day while they play and pay attention to what gets them excited while they're playing. If you can't set aside one full day to do this with your friend then you should just face the fact that they're not really your friend and move on.
Once you know what excites them while they're playing you can determine what they're trying to escape from and possibly work with them towards getting away from whatever makes them feel trapped.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
I^HMy friend is addicted to Slashdot.
He would have sex but he couldn't get a date and besides nobody wants to date an unemployed nerd.
Your friend needs help. Professional help. Your school probably has a psychological counseling office, but that's the sort of thing that he needs to seek himself. Confronting him, wrecking his account, getting him banned, or anything else is not going to help you or him at this point.
I say this because I've been that person. Same academic issues, same fixation on a game for social reinforcement (a MUX, in my case), and I'd wager that he's feeling just as depressed and afraid as I did when I was in that situation.
If you want to help him, get in touch with his family. Get in touch with his professors and the dean of his faculty. If he's religious, get in touch with his pastor. Chances are, none of them have any idea what's really going on. It's really easy to just grunt and shrug when someone asks how classes are going. They may have suspicions, but between their desire to treat him as an adult, and the shame and frustration he's feeling at being unable to cope, he doesn't feel like he can ask for help, and they don't feel like they can successfully confront him.
.........his life outside the game probably sucks. Assuming he is in school, he's probably going to fail his classes, and doesn't want to think about it. Thinking about it just makes him feel worse. Leaving his game world just makes him miserable. Who knows, maybe his mom just died too, or something and so in the real world, he's got all this pain, but in the game world he's kind of ok.
If he's going to leave, it's going to either be by force (ie, he can't pay for his apartment anymore, or you destroy his computer), or because he comes to believe that the outside world is something he can handle, that all the pain isn't really all that bad: it is something we all deal with and all can learn to face.
Go with the second option: just be his friend, make him food sometime or something, whatever. He absolutely knows he's messed up, so you telling him that won't help much. Just accept him (maybe even ask him what he did on WOW today, sometimes stuff like that works), and be prepared for a lot of negativeness that he'll throw at you before he's willing to trust you.
Also, if you want to understand the whole 'powerless to face the world' mindset, it can help to listen to Blue October, they've got some good songs.
Qxe4
getting some what? STDs?
What's the big deal? At least he isn't addicted to MMA. Could be bad for the health.
Or MMF ...
For one, all the MMO companies I've ever encountered have plenty of records of what has happened with an account. That was if something goes wrong, they can restore it. If it gets hacked, they'll just roll it back to where it was before then. So the company will fix the problem and he'll just get to keep going. Now if you keep doing it, you WILL get caught. That's how criminals, and make no mistake that's what you'd be, get caught: They keep doing it. Each time there's more chance you slip up, each time there's more patterns to look for.
In this case you'd get found out fairly quickly because those involved would realize the only way someone could keep getting his password is to have physical access to his computer.
So this is an excellent way to not fix the problem, and to land your ass in jail. Hacking can be a very serious offense if they want it to be.
Hopefully you've got a router. Using the built-in firewall, block the ports that the game requires. on and off for five minutes at a time. So he has to keep logging in and never makes any progress (well, even less than normal...), but doesn't realize you're fiddling with it.
If you can't place a linux box as router without being suspicious, you might be able set up a cron job on cheapo laptop you connect to automatically keep changing the commodity router's settings.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
You can't control his life. You can explain your POV and what you think he is doing. When people are addicted to chemical drugs people around him can be 'enablers'. Enablers are people that indirectly support their addiction by passively allowing their drug use. Do not be an enabler. If it is wearing on the friendship and his ability to fulfill household duties tell him to get his shit together or you will kick him out.
Otherwise, professional help.
And maybe think about the role of this addiction in the persons life. If playing video games is the best part of their otherwise depressing shitty life, you should be prepared to help beyond this scapegoat addiction.
I mean it's not like a lot of people get killed
I mean it's not like anyone ever died
oh fuck it. Get him addicted to porn instead.
Interesting side question: Is his gaming addiction being caused by failing out of school or some other real-life problem (depression?) or is the gaming addiction causing the effects as the story suggests?
Preface: I was once spending more hours per week working on WoW characters than on my concurrent full-time job. I managed to keep said job so I'm not sure I ever got as bad as the person in this story, however, some things worth pointing out:
- This person probably considers those people he knows in the MMO to be greater friends than those he knows in real life. Cooperation from the those in game friends will be the greatest asset to your cause if you can get it, especially if he's a member of a player organization (guild in WoW. Not sure what they're called in Pirates).
- I eventually quit because there were things I wanted to do in life. Presumably he has some of these too. Ask him what the end-game is given what he's doing with his time. What does he hope to accomplish in the game that will matter 5 years from now, have him weigh that with what he's potentially giving up in real life that will matter 5 years from now. He has likely considered this and can't quit cold-turkey so this isn't useful until you can get him down to a reasonable amount of play time making this is your long-term weapon.
- Point out that he can pick the game up again any time right where he left off. This is your short-term weapon. Remind him real life is rarely so forgiving.
Very easy...
You and 4 or 5 of your friends all get accounts, and then follow him around in the game ganking all his treasure.
-- Terry
People want friends, not projects; unless they're fucked up and compensating. Of course friendships and relationships involve a little convenience, but having to feel like it's your responsibility to rescue someone from themselves is more than a little inconvenience, and frankly I think most people can agree they don't hold all of their friends on a level where they would find that necessary. I have quite a few friends, but very very few I'd feel the need to march into hell to save from their own poor impulse control; and even those would probably wear out their welcome pretty quickly.
--Obyron
I used to play WoW with all of my extra time, except for work and sleeping. I realize your friend is worse off than i was, but there are two major steps i had to take to quit. First the account needs to be gotten rid of, many sites will buy accounts, this will not allow him to as easily go back. Second you must find a way to fill his time.I forced myself to hang out with friends and also do more schoolwork when i had it. Its stil a hard road to not be tempted back in, but as long as these two criteria are met it will be much easier to stay off.
Call social services. Find out if they can just take him in for his own good for a psych eval. They might be able to, as it sounds like at this point he may be a harm to himself. Since it's long term harm, it may not work.
If not, you need to hold an intervention. You and everyone you can think of who cares about him. Family too. Have a clinical social worker there, and get their help setting it up.
If he becomes violent, have him arrested and they'll get him help.
If he threatens suicide, you can have him held on a mandatory 72 hour psych-eval.
You're trying to save his life. What he thinks of you doesn't matter. If he never speaks to you again, it's OK as long as you can help him.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
It's not a problem until he flunks out of school, gets booted from the house for not paying rent, ...
My god, you'd fit well into the medical establishment. Studying to become a doctor?
Q: My friend survives on a diet of poutine and coke. A: It's not a problem until his heart palpitates.
I guess nothing is a problem in life until the condition is so severe that the poor sop is ready to cut a large cheque (supposing any funds remain) for quadruple bypass surgery performed by someone who didn't flunk out of school.
Great advice from the perspective of the doctor's retirement fund, not such good advice from the perspective of the future patient.
The underlying anger thing suggests this person is not ready to confront his inner conflict in the context of the larger world. Probably the best move is to distance yourself from the impending conflagration.
If you set yourself up to become the lightening rod for your friend's anger, and you have the patience of a saint, your friend might recover, but your friendship won't. One way or another, your friend will ultimately classify you in the "before" or "after" category.
You do have an opportunity to provide your friend with a small glimpse of leadership and self determination by taking responsibility for your own emotional content.
"I don't like hanging around with you when you play games 15 hours a day. It worries and irritates me to think about where your life might end up if you continue to behave this way. We need to think about different living arrangements. I hope we'll continue to be friends. I'll be very upset if we end up falling out over this. One of us needs to start looking for a new place to live. How are we going to sort this out?"
I've been reading a lot of economic theory lately. Apparently, according to economists, humans are rational agents in almost every respect.
This via Colby Cosh, my favourite lucid and agreeable wingnut.
http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2009/04/berl-redux.html
Who's to tell me that my utility function is wrong?
Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth to this. Where he means to put the emphasis on "wrong", I would put the emphasis on "who", as it concerns your friend. If you solve for x and x = yourself, I'd harbour some grave doubts about *your* utility function after you showed the common sense to look before leaping.
"Any attempt to physically prevent him from playing the game would most likely result in an outburst of anger and possibly physical violence."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrophies will probably prevent him from resisting.
Just do it!
Things in a rear mirror might be behind you
I started playing everquest in 2001. At first I refused to play, but friends pretty much bought the game and installed it on my PC. I refused to play because I figured I'd get addicted... and sure enough... 7 years later... I went cold turkey. There are a few things that I realized about my own addiction that helped me break it.
First, MMOs are Skinner boxes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber They let the player feel like they're accomplishing something. This is a huge motivator when in your real life, the rewards are missing from any effort. For me, I had just got divorced and had a company I help start shoot down the toilet. Suffices to say, I was at a motivational low.
So, to figure out the trap (Skinner box), you need to figure out how to get the rewards in real life that are missing. A psychologist might suggest sitting with your friend and actually setting achievable, short term, real world goals. Even if it is as simple as going for a 30 minute walk. Then emphasize the "Hey, I did something today." You might even want to try something that gives other rewards, like adrenaline, through running, or some sport.
Next, there was the social aspect. People in MMOs believe the social context missing from their lives is real - that you actually have friends in the game. This is pretty far from the truth. Sure, I got to know a few people well in my EQ experience, but not one of them has participated in a relationship outside the game. So, some brutal realities there...
Anyway, I've been EQ free over six months. I refuse to play another MMO, ever. When you look at the total time played, and you see that you've been online 300+ days... ask the question, if you had a year of time back, what would you do with it? Sit in front of a computer screen like a zombie? Or actually try accomplish something. People often say they don't have time for stuff. Pretty sobering to look at some metrics. And real addicts underestimate how much time they play.
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
Persistence. Intervene adn then do not stop.
/terrible/ advise: dangerous, unethical, and inconsistent with human nature.
This is
There is lots of research on addictions, and there's lots of ways to approach treatment, but *nothing* works unless your friend asks for help. That has to be the first step. It's nothing personal, just something to do with the way the brain processes information about the self. Any action you take will elicit defence mechanisms if it is based on downward social comparison.
My advise is to go talk to a clinical psychologist about your friends case. They may be able to suggest appropriate reading materials, or communication strategies.
I am dedicated to helping people and understanding the human mind - it's a passion for me, and why I returned to school after working for years as a programmer. In my experience, the only way to truly help someone is to get to know them better, without any sense of agenda.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
things. They get addicted to things that fill a need. So the question might be what's the game covering up? Endorphins can be used to self-medicate in a bottle or with a game. When we get stuck using substitutes for too long is when we start making obviously negative/detrimental decisions because we've lost the ability to see beyond our own pain/reward-cycle. But say it funnier then that when you tell him. ;-)
Quack, quack.
It really depends on the person. Personally, what saved my life was a copy of Jung's _Signs & Symbols_ and a great group of friends when I went off to college. When I started reading psychology texts, it gave me the space to realize, "Holy crap. I have deep-seated issues that are going to ruin my life if I don't seek help _right now_."
The desire for change has to come from him. Chances are he's feeling pretty trapped and isolated atm. If he's not the academic/bookish type, my solution probably won't be useful, but he needs to get some kind of perspective on his life as a whole WITHOUT feeling like he's being attacked (which is what will happen if you or anyone else confronts him directly). The only thing you can do is maintain friendship with him, so that when he inevitably drops out (or, in my very lucky case, takes medical leave), he feels like he has people that care about him.
To the people who made comments about parents' intervention being useful: NO. Parent's are the worst thing that could possibly happen to him. Chances are his parents are pretty inextricably involved in whatever issues/depression are driving him to play this much.
Letting other people do things you don't like is the price of freedom.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I have this friend IRL right and he's so attached his education that his not living life. He sacrifices any bit of fun for it. He gets up around 9am, calls his mum in Denver, and then hits the books until about 3am only leaving his desk to put a piece of cheese on some bread and maybe take a shit. His desk is totally littered with empty energy drink bottles and sometimes he pisses in an empty instead of getting up to go to the bathroom. Once he accidentally drank a recycled one and just vomited in another.
There's this pirate game right, it's awesome! Swashbuckling and harrr! Open seas! Booty! Awesomez!!! and I've tried to bring it up with him every now and again but my suggestions are always met with derision and anger. "You're sleeping your future away with that crap!" he'll yell. He can't see that he's missing out on all this fun with his addiction to success.
I've tried using wake-on-LAN and changing his home page but it just won't work. What can I do to help him?
and shutdown his machine in every mid-day and see what happens.
New Economic Perspectives
My wife would tell you that it took many interventions over a long period of time to finally get me to see the light about my gaming addiction. I had it mildly compared to what I've been reading. While it ultimately had to be my decision, I never would have made it without her intervening and showing me how my addiction affected her and our relationship in general. Crying helped a lot, but that might be awkward in your case...
Some of the advice about leaving him alone because he's an adult is ridiculous. If you care it's worth intervening (obviously you do considering your post), and he'll thank you for it eventually even though he might hate you for it short term. But even if you lose his friendship, it would be worth it in the long run if he breaks his addiction. He's throwing away his life.
I would try to convince him to take a vacation for a while...2 weeks maybe. Hopefully it will end up feeling like a vacation to him. If you can spare the time, keep him busy and social and possibly make it impossible to log on (go out of town with him). You'll probably need to pull him away many times before he sees the light. I would also put some material on addictive behavior in front of him. Being compared to a gambling addict or a drug addict helped open my eyes too.
I don't recommend doing anything sneaky like others have recommended (like cutting out his internet access). That's just going to put barriers up and he'll close you off.
Many years ago I played EQ whenever I had a spare moment. People brandished the words addiction around when speaking of me. I would think up ways to not have to do things just so I could sit home and play.
You know what? I got over the game. It didn't ruin my life. I wasn't put on meds to combat the urge to play. I simply found other things that interested me and moved on. Do I still play MMO's. Yep. 2-3 hours a week. Not per day. I spend most of my time reading books (yeah dead tree books), designing compact computing devices and enjoying my dogs.
I think you need to be understanding and maybe find out what your friend is getting from the game that he/she isn't getting in RL. I figured that out for myself. Maybe they need your help.
Just be understanding.
Nothing is impossible. It just hasn't been figured out yet.
Do nothing let him be, sometimes one has to hit rock bottom before they realize they have a problem and need help. As long as he resists any help, then you can't help him, so wait until he is ready.
Make sure his parents know. It sounds corny, but no one in the world loves that boy more than his parents. No one cares about him more than his parents. If you can contact them anonymously, that would be best. But if you can't do anonymously, do it anyway. The addiction you describe is serious. Once you've made sure his parents know, then start thinking about the other techniques.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Let him live his life as he sees fit; eventually he'll move on. He might have to have some hard lessons until then, but when faced with sink or swim even the hardest core addicts will adapt. Being a friend and showing your concern is a good thing, but it's not your duty to save him from himself. Eventually he'll realize that his achievements are virtual. That doesn't mean you should pay his bills or other such sillyness. Enabling him hurts him more.
"believe in my innocence and I might consider yours." -- charles bukowski "Scientific progress goes 'boink'?" -- Calvin
Speaking as a MMO addict myself, as well as an addict of other things. I'm in recovery from my addiction to alcohol. I still play one MMO, but I moderate my time online now.
Your friend must first realize his addiction and want help. Until that's happens, the most you can do is get out of the way while his addiction drags him down.
If you're enabling him to continue his addiction, then you need to evaluate your own situation.
His addiction is the result of an emotional imbalance. Nothing will help him until he begins to wonder about the world outside, anything else will help to keep him isolated. If he ever shows an interest in anything else, really interact with him about it. Something about the game is interesting him more than all of the life around him. My own guess is just that he feels defeated in his life right now.
It is very cool of you to care for a friend's well being, take the 90% of these "fend for yourself" posts with a grain of salt.
We all have things in life that we want to spend all our time doing. What is most important is that we choose something healthy, something that benefits the world around us. At the very least and for the sake of mental health, our endeavors should benefit our future lives.
The best you can do is be a positive influence. Talk about your life outside of home whenever you can. Talk about girls, projects you're involved in, parties, music.
If you have any good lady friends tell them the situation, that you have a good friend in disconnection peril and want to help. It's a noble and selfless cause; women can be great company for such things. Try to get him to hang out when you're out with her and her friends. Sometimes just spending time with the opposite sex can get you off your ass and caring about your body/mind health again.
A good girlfriend can be a great way to clear yourself of addiction. But the most important thing you can have and the thing that will eventually help maintain a healthy relationship is self confidence. A first step is exercise. Try to plan some outdoor things with mutual friends. Organize a kickball game, get out a frisbee; hell, anything to get the blood moving other than video game-induced adrenaline and Flamin' Hot Cheetos.
In the end the best thing you can do is be his friend. Talk to him whenever possible, don't abandon him. If he's flunking out or missing work then drastic measures may be in order. Otherwise all you need to do is show him the path; leave it up to him to walk it.
Stop meddling!
You're more likely to harm whatever relationship you have with this person, rather than help it. In all seriousness, an addiction to a game is really not that big of a deal compared to other things they could be addicted to that would directly harm them. He's not breaking any laws or harming anything by playing a game... so why not leave him be. Whatever issues he has, he'll work out for himself.
Some of the tactics mentioned here, like physically preventing access to the computer or hiding the modem, are downright asinine and will only anger and frustrate this person rather than actually help them.
By the way, did you even consider that this person may be perfectly happy just the way they are? Just because you personally would not like to live that way doesn't mean it's true for everyone. Some people have different priorities, and perhaps the best thing to do is respect that rather than shoehorning your priorities onto theirs.
8==8 Bones 8==8
Is it just me or is someone trying to advertise this game? If the story mentioned WoW addiction I wouldn't say anything.
It depends upon your relationship to him. If you know him really well, you might try to do something. But most likely the most you can do is "I'm worried about you." If the conversation goes somewhere, fine, but if not I don't see what you can do. It sounds to me like this person needs professional help, which you can't give. The best you can do is try to get him to go.
If that doesn't work, you might refer it to either or both of your college's counseling service or dean, depending upon how things are set up, and as someone mentioned, his parents. I had a roommate who simply wouldn't get up. I ended up calling the someone (I don't recall who, but probably counseling). They came over, talked to him, and started working with him. It took a year for him to get completely to normal, but that was the start of the process. (His parents were dead, so I didn't have that option.)
Just as heroin was developed to get soldiers off morphine, you need to get your friend on something stronger than pirates. The only thing stronger than pirates? Ninjas.
I am sorry for you. I really am. This kind of callous and shallow behavior shown by so many people saying "fuck him" "not your problem" and so on is EXACTLY why our society is so totally fucked right now. People have problems, serious ones. In fact, most people have serious problems at some point or another, the fact that everyone around them is so shallow and callous that they abandon them in their time of need is what makes our entire society fall the fuck apart.
Will you ever need people that are that dedicated to your well being in your life? Maybe not, if you don't you are pretty lucky. However, just knowing that you have people standing next to you that WILL march into hell to save you is invaluable. I have been that person before, and the one I tried to help hated me for it...for a while. However, now I have someone that I *KNOW* will always be there if I need them, and who has no problem calling me out on the carpet if I start going down a bad path. The pinnacle of arrogance is not so much believing that you can never make a mistake in your own life or go down those roads, but that you will know when you are doing it. Sometimes it takes someone close to you to give you that swift kick in the jimmy to let you know you are doing something stupid.
Additionally, I think being one of your "friends" would be depressing. Knowing that if my life goes foul for some reason and I start making bad choices, that I will be abandoned rather than helped. That kind of thing is typically what feeds directly into suicidal thoughts during the aftermath of some kind of traumatic event. Maybe this guy isn't just making stupid choices and addicted to a game. Maybe he just lost a family member, maybe he found out someone close to him has cancer, etc, etc, etc, and he is looking for an escape. The people that will make an impact in his life are the ones that will press the issue and help him. The reality is, half the time, you don't have to march into hell, you just have to let them know that you are ready to do that.
Your definition of friend seems to be pretty watered down. I call those people acquaintances, not friends. Friends are the people that WILL go to hell and back for you, and that you will go to hell and back for.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
Ah, the I want you to hit me as hard as you can approach?
I used to be hooked on WoW. Got to a pretty high level, and then realized something. I hadn't beaten a game in ages, and at the rate I was going, I never would. There were still all these awesome games coming out that I wanted to play, but they weren't WoW.
Then I took a good hard look at what I was doing in WoW. I was killing enemies repeatedly, picking up items I didn't care about, to fulfill quests I didn't care about. I realized the game was inferior in storyline and gameplay to modern console games. The one thing it had going for it was that I could chat with people. But then again, that wasn't happening much.
So, one day, I chose to try out some other game that I bought a long time before, but never got around to playing. It wasn't a completely cold turkey experience, but I found I was having more fun with the other game than with WoW. Signing onto WoW turned into a chore that I felt obligated to do every once in a while. And then one day, I realized I hadn't signed on in a month.
Fast forward a couple of years. I still enjoy other non-MMO games. Sometimes I get hooked, but it's over in a week or two. Then I have a sense of completion, and socialize for a while before deciding on the next game to conquer.
So, long story short, determine what it is that your friend likes about this game, and find a non-MMO that does it better. Get him hooked on that, and he'll see what he's missing. He'll be able to live a more healthy gaming life in the end.
I value my friend because of who they are. If someone spends *all* his life playing a MMORPG, he is not a friend. If he doesn't quit his playing, I just assume he doesn't value whatever relation there was, why then bother?
So many people are into abusive relationship when they needn't be.
\u262D = \u5350
Worked for me vs WoW. Once I saw that credit screen I knew there wasn't much point in playing it through again. I declared victory and now await its sequel.
The other way to approach it is to get someone hooked on another game. Once they switch, they may see the futility of false achievement and just play for fun.
Have him read this:
Big Red Kitty: Farewell and Thank You
A few posts down is the end of a very famous and highly-regarded WoW blogger. He realized that he had completely neglected his wife and son for years. WoW was his "mistress" and he was an addict, like your friend. Tell him "Don't be like this guy." This guy would easily tell you that real people are a lot more important than the game. As soon as that game goes end-of-life, what will he have? Not even a friend.
If he doesn't respond, you and your housemates ought to save his life -- not an exaggeration. Find a way to cut off his connection to the Internet at the house. Hide his mouse. Remove his power cable, or cut the fuses to that part of the house. Let him borrow your computer for whatever he needs to do for homework.
He may hate you, but you are doing the right thing. He may not see it, but his vision is clearly messed up. Best of luck to you.
Funtime Candy Wow! - my plan for eventually conquering Japan.
Cost him his marriage... Then the Devs of the MMO, which goes by the acronymns of COH/COV/COX pissed him, me, and a bunch of others off with their nazi-like control of the game. Long story short, he quit it cold-turkey today, after 5 years of playing it. Closed his account. Over 25 - level 50 toons all purpled out with IO sets. Thanks Positron! You nazi-douchebag!
You're joking, but I'm serious: This probably won't work.
I was in exactly the same position as the poster when I was in college (EverQuest). My best friend from the time I was 5 just disappeared. He stopped going to classes, he stopped sleeping normal times (at least this guy seems to have a schedule--my friend was on a totally strange cycle that seemed to rotate). He only ate leftovers or other stuff that he could bring up to his room. Until this time, he and I always used to trade off cooking dinner and actually sit down for dinner each night. He was, in a very real sense, like a brother. Closer than my actual brother, really. I considered his parents basically another set in addition to my own, and the families were very close.
Anyway, I'll never forget the morning that his girlfriend--another old friend of mine--showed up at our place one morning to try to drag him out. He wouldn't even come to his door. She just kept pleading at the door, becoming more frantic. They'd been together for years. Finally she said, "So, you want me to leave?" "Yes." "If I leave, I'm never coming back, is that okay with you?" "...Yes."
She was devastated. I spend the rest of the day taking care of her. She left that evening after I made her dinner, and I think that's the last time I ever saw her.
My friend just continued this "life" style, even as I called his parents and asked for their help. They couldn't get him to quit. He flunked out of his classes, and his parents stopped giving him money for rent and food (he had been paying his share all this time, which was nice--I'd leave a note for what he owed and there'd be a check there in the morning). Finally I had to evict him (my parents owned the place and we rented from them). It was heartbreaking; he wasn't showering and I had to air that room out for a week. He was pale and emaciated. Just totally a different person (he was a long-distance runner, always in way better shape than me--we were on the cross-country team in high school together--fun times).
He moved into his parents basement, and they tried to kick him out a few times, but basically their conscience wouldn't let them. This went on for at least another year at their place. I got updates on his "condition" through my dad, who had lunch with his dad (and some of the other guys from around town) every Friday.
Then one day, he comes upstairs and says to his dad "I canceled my account. I'm going for a run."
Now he's addicted to long-distance running, and is finally finishing his degree. There was a period for a few years before he started school again where he worked at a shoe store part time (I'm pretty sure he ran out of his large savings--"frugal" has never been the word for his level of financial conservativeness--by paying all those months of EQ bills). Despite these positive steps, though, our friendship is completely broken. I've tried to hang out with him a few times since that time, but he's just different. I don't know him. He's gone.
So what I'm saying is this: I don't think there's anything the poster can do. This addiction won't kill the guy, though, so that's good, but I think that what stops him will probably be running out of money or something along those lines. He's not going to get better, I don't think. He's just one of those people who gets addicted to things. Probably some form of OCD or something. Just give up and focus on your own studies. He's gone.
I just remembered an episode of Boston Legal (Season 2 Episode 21) where a kid dies due to video game addiction. His mother sued the company that made the video game. According to the plaintiff, the company hired a clinical psychologist whose purpose was to conduct tests and increase the dopamine levels while playing the game. According to the psychologist,
"Dopamine is a neurotransmitter. It's also connected to the reinforcing effects of drugs like cocaine and amphetamines. It's often called the master molecule of addiction. Playing this video game is like receiving a jolt equivalent to an injection of amphetamines. And my duty, was to create a game that would maximize dopamine output for the players."
A quick look at the Wikipedia article suggests that the addiction theory has some basis. The case was dismissed due to the fact that anything we enjoy is accompanied by increased dopamine levels. However, it would be interesting to see whether video game makers actually hire people to make video games physically addictive.
Tell your friend that he can die. What else?
Addiction is a mental health disorder. Try notifying your school's dean and see if they can't require him to get some help. If he is ignoring vital areas of his life a crash is coming and it may well be hazardous to others. You have already mentioned anger issues and imagine how he will behave if he bombs out of school.
Having a friend on such a deep and downward spiral is difficult to watch. Clearly, since you're asking here, you care. I'm assuming your educational institution has mental health professionals. Make an appointment and talk to one of them - about how YOU feel about this and what you are experiencing. They have a lot more experience with this and, unlike virtually anyone whose postings I have read so far, actual training. You can get insight into the problem, understand the pressures and the meaning of it for you, and understand what you may need to do. This might help you engage with him and help him out.
I'm glad you care enough to ask. Good luck
If you want to show that real life is not that much better than the game play, you will have to pick an example of real life that most people will associate with real life. The real life where people interact happily with others, get married, have children, have good jobs, collect stamps, take walks, etc. This is the replacement life that the OP want his addicted friend to lead. And this is the life that you will have to show is bad, if you want to justify the addicted person's game play. Maybe I interpreted your post wrong.
...and here is the story. Take what you will from it. At the time MMORPGs were called MUSHs and MOOs. A friend in college started logging into one and we all joined in the fun. That's what it was, a bit of fun. Unfortunately, while we did it with some pizza for an hour or two every few nights, he started playing more and more. Eventually, he never left the computer lab. He wouldn't go to the cafeteria for meals, instead eating only junk out of the vending machine just outside the lab. His roommate would go days without seeing him as he would simply snooze for an hour or so in the corner of the lab. He would even avoid showers until he stunk so bad he was dragged from the computer lab. We tried everything. We tried to get him to go to class; he wouldn't. We tried to get him to get out and see a movie; he wouldn't. We even tried to get him to come to dinner with his girlfriend who he didn't even talk to anymore; he wouldn't. After about 4 weeks of this, we finally went to the dean of students and explained the situation. His network access was disconnected and the student psychologist and the dean paid him a visit. They gracefully removed him from his currently enrolled classes so his GPA wouldn't take a nose dive should he pull himself back together again, contacted his family, located a local therapist for him, and sent him home. We all basically lost contact with him until he wrote his former girlfriend a year later and thanked us for doing what we did. He did eventually pull himself together and returned to school at another university. I don't know what ever happened to him after that. Anyway, that's my story.
Anon Coward to protect my professional rep
I was there. I had lost my job, got caught in in SWG and Anarchy Online, became an ARK (AO volunteer GM). I was spending over 60 hrs/wk doing that, ignoring my job search, ignoring my fiance.
One day, I realized I was in danger of losing the love of my life. I resigned from ARK, shut down my SWG account, and turned myself around.
These days I'm a 100K+ manager, married to the aforementioned love, and we have our daughter.
My addiction could have taken this all away from me. At the end of the day, change has to come from inside yourself. Your friends and family can give you their points of view, but trying to fix other people is a losing game. I know from trying to fix an alcoholic farther. The only one you can fix is yourself.
AC
Having just lost my wife to a 16-hour-per-day WoW addiction, I finally realized after the past two years that if they don't want to help themselves there's nothing you can do for them. I tried everything I could think to do, and every attempt to "save" her only made her more angry and resentful which fed the addiction even more. Finally I just put my foot down and said "no more" - and she left.
Unfortunately I've found that my story is all too common lately. I've had family members that were hopelessly addicted to street drugs and alcohol - and this is no different. Same behavior, same problem. They even show physical symptoms of addiction, and go through withdrawal when it's not available to them.
I think we're all in for a whole new world of things to be addicted to as more options are available to technologically "escape reality". I wouldn't be surprised if within 10 years gaming and "virtual reality" addiction are an epidemic out of control.
I wish you and your friend all the best, and hopefully he snaps out of it and gets help. Don't push him and don't give him any more cause to be resentful - just be there for him when he decides to come back to Earth.
Just disrupt the deflector shield with a tachyon burst.
I have a girlfriend, and no, it's not enough to get you out of an MMO addiction. It can be added incentive. Usually, you have to wait until it starts hurting their job and their wallet. If that doesn't do it, good luck!
I'm disturbed at some of the replies to this. 1: Guys, you don't abandon a whole human being to a problem like this without at least taking a shot at helping him. It may not help, it may not work, but it will at least help you later not to feel so terrible if he goes over the edge and hangs himself or something. 2: This IS a problem, there are more than a few "He's an adult, leave him alone" responses. Those of you who posted this are either trolling or need to get some help and close your WoW account as well. I'd grant that playing a game every day isn't a problem, maybe not even for a couple of hours every day. But when you don't leave the house and stop eating it is a problem. 3: Small steps and just getting him out of the house, and getting him some exercise, those are your best bets assuming that he's not blocking or avoiding other serious problems such as depression or failing out of college or whatever, if he's having those problems as well he may need more serious help, getting him hooked up with some outside help anonymously can make a huge difference, with an illness like depression finally having someone to talk to about it can be an immense and sudden relief, and often it's better if that someone isn't friends or family.
My next door neighbors are a retired man (in his 70s) and his wife. He started playing WoW this past winter. He told me his highest character is a 62 and he has a few others as well. I think his grandson got him started on the game. I would say he is officially addicted since he has just bought a second computer so he can play 2 characters at the same time.
However, he has the advantage of not having to work anymore and the only major thing this could be negative toward is the relationship with his wife. Makes me wonder what it will be like when people my age (30s) get to retirement. Imagine a nursing home being like a 24/7 LAN party!
I used to play WoW and other MMOs but then I got a girlfriend and now I am married. I don't really miss it. When I do go back to play or see what is new in the updates, it doesn't draw me in the way it used to.
I Cater to the Needs of Stupid People. - from a coffee mug Christmas gift
I have two friends who did something similar but not quite as drastic. Both flunked out of college and the like. The never coming out of the room sounds familiar too. Both are still addicted on some level. Funny thing though one is also a pretty heavy pot smoker and the other doesn't do any drugs but their addictive personalities both trigger off of games. The even more ironic part is that the one who does drugs too KNOWS he's addicted to the game and has talked about "cutting back" and such...
There are plenty of fun ways to mess with his computer though. Starting simple would be adding "127.0.0.1 offending website" to the hosts file. Most computer wizs would figure that one out as soon as they tried pinging the site. Much, much more difficult for the average computer user to figure out is setting an ipsec policy to block the server IP/ports the games uses. He'd still be able to ping it, but the game would mysteriously not be able to connect. Or figure out how to make the game just work crappy or slow enough that he gets frustrated and gives up.
Hi.
I need the immersion experience too, but I feel lucky I had just enough intuition to officially retire from major video games (freeware webthingies you play for four days don't count).
I discovered that books(now plus web info blogs as supplements) are up there with the highest contentvalue-per-hour, matched only by music. My personal collection is about 1500 volumes.
Games are "export" activities; except maybe some terrain details, you're applying a stock set of known skills, and aren't exactly learning that whole time. Reading is more demanding, because the inbound material has to be processed. So, given that difference in rest factor, yes - there are weekends I spend reading up to twenty hours for recreation.
However, at least is has paid me back. Y'all have a more focused skillset in raw IT, but I can usually hang in a range of conversations with a decent comment or two.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
He's playing the game because it gives him something he can't find or get enough of in Real Life. Behind the keyboard he can be daring, bold, brave, clever, and receive a regular helping of the success, joy, and adulation that come with those things. There are puzzles to solve, people to help (damsels in distress?), buds to hang with, and he can get it all, now.
How can Real Life compete with that? What are those things that make life worth living if the computer is more validating than your regular existence? That's the problem. Real Life becomes a maintenance issue serving to allow time with The Game. Now you are dependent on the game -- You're avoiding the Real Life stuff, The Game has become your buffer, your filter, your shield -- You are addicted. You don't merely need it, you require it. The Game is How you Live.
What now? The Game is dominant, but it's skills don't translate much to Real Life. Trying to deal with Real Life is an embarrassment. It doesn't work the way The Game does -- no reset, second chances, saves, spells -- you can't get and keep the upper hand. The physics don't match, the interactions aren't predictable, and you can't hide behind the keyboard. People see you, not your avatar. How can you live up to that? Why don't they understand? In The Game, they do...
See "Social Phobia" to appreciate how grasping at the one good (they think) thing in one's life can screw up the rest of it.
Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
Why? I freely admit that I "gain strength in solitude, expended in the world." Reading is indeed what I do. That's why the Global Community is beautiful - through out an edge-case meme, and someone will match it. (Usually, if there's no ridiculous social stigma.)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
IAABM. But I hope I have blunted the SkullPoint sufficiently.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
My college roommate/best-friend was in the same scenario with EQ and was already flunking his classes, so I offered to play with him for 1-2 hours in exchange for 30 minutes of studying outside. I slowly ramped up the study time outside without changing the 1-2 hours online together. Within 3 weeks, he was studying over an hour a day with me again. (We had the same major, so that was perhaps more fortuitous than your situation) It took a lot of my time and effort, but he at least passed his courses and graduated.
AccountKiller
My 2 cents: Game "Addiction" isn't typically the cause of people's problems in life, but rather a symptom of deeper problems elsewhere. People simply aren't checking out from life and opting for a game world instead when they're happy with their real life. Video games offer a way out for people who are otherwise *already* deeply unhappy. There are certainly studies linking video game "addiction" to depression and unhappiness, I just happen to think that the causal relationship runs the other way around -- depression leads to video game addiction and not vice versa. If you think about it, really, far better they choose escapism than, say, suicide as a manifestation of their unhappiness.
But, ultimately, that's just my 2 cents. My opinion from observation and past experience -- and nothing more. I don't think video games are ever really to blame for people's problems. That doesn't simply mean that I think that *everyone* who becomes addicted to video games has a horrible life -- just that I think, if not video games, we'd see some other sign that that the person in question had deeper problems. Many clinically depressed people, from the outsiders perspective, seem to have great and happy lives and people often have trouble understanding why they might be depressed. When you see someone like that spending all their time playing video games and suffering social/economic consequences as a result, it's very easy to blame the games as they appear to have destroyed an otherwise idealic life -- but this isn't necessarily the case, at least not in my opinion.
So, at any rate, my completely non-medical advice is to treat video game addiction as a symptom of some deeper problem rather than as a cause. Since I don't really know your friend or anything about his situations, that's about the extent of what I can suggest.
Format his hard drive. If that doesn't work, chuck it out the window, or engineer some internet outages. Maybe a few days of reflecting will kick some sense into him.
Simple, get him addicted to slashdot instead
Table-ized A.I.
I played WoW a lot. To the point of being unhealthy a few times. How did I get away from it? I cheated.
MMOs are hard to cheat at but a friend an I found a world emulator that was about 95% accurate. We spent the next week going everywhere, doing everything, getting everything. We made custom weapons/armour that made us walking gods. We set Illidan in a duel with Ragnaros. We swapped models so that we looked like Magmadar or C'Thun.
After a while we got bored and tried the normal game. It sucked. We couldn't one-shot things. Gold took hours/days to accumulate. Everything just seemed so tedious.
I went for three months without playing. I picked up WotLK and played for a week and got bored. I uninstalled it and haven't thought about it since.
This seems like horrible advice.
How would you like if it I just randomly decided you had a slashdot addiction, and next time you went to make a post on Slashdot, I just came and punched you in the face -- as a friend. You know, on account of how much I care about you?
Not even remotely the case. The issue that you are talking about is when people insist on trying to force reality to match their world view. Which, quite frankly, is the same arrogant, self centered, narcissistic bullshit that spawns the "fuck them" and "not my problem" mentality. If you pay close attention, those self righteous pieces of shit that pretend to judge everyone else are the same assholes that refuse to actually help anyone else because they are just too fucking perfect for the rest of us.
Minding other people's business and dictating how others should live their lives are two completely different things. Minding other people's business was when our elderly neighbor saw me on crutches after having my ankle reconstructed and brought over chicken soup and a chocolate pie. Minding other peoples business is when folks in the neighborhood would go across the street and mow the widow's lawn. Dictating how other people should live their lives is not even remotely the same thing.
If you haven't lived in multiple areas you are missing out. I grew up in the midwest US and have lived in the deep south and east coast. The *ONLY* neighbor that actually behaved like a neighbor while I was living outside of the midwest was a guy from the midwest. Most people just mind their own business to the point of ignoring everyone around them. It is fucking pathetic. Community only exists when people interact. The great divides that have occurred as of late over stupid ideological bullshit have been allowed to happen because people lock themselves up away from everyone else and judge everyone else outside of their little ideologies. "Neighborhood Watch" used to mean something more than a bullshit sign. I remember growing up the vast parent network that seemed to exist. You fuck up on one end of town and by god your parents would know by the end of a day or two at the latest.
No...our society is fucked up because people put themselves in stupid little ideological ivory towers and judge each other at arms distance rather than mind each others business. I moved back to the midwest because I am confident that now my neighbors WILL mind my business. If they see something out of the norm happening at my house they will either call the cops or let me know. If they see my kids getting in to trouble you can bet your ass I will hear about it at some point. When we moved in the local cops pulled me and a buddy over in the drive way just to talk to us because the house had been vacant for 2 months. Yeah...it was a minor irritant, but at the end of the day it meant the local cops noticed that kind of shit and weren't afraid to act on things that looked "strange".
Minding other people's business is not even remotely the same thing as being a judgmental prick. Minding other people's business is finding a way to intervene and help. Being a judgmental prick is standing up and shouting at them or to other like minded individuals how stupid that person is without offering anything constructive.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
There's other ideas of friendship that don't demand one be willing to sacrifice so much so as to go to hell for others. Here's one from Aristotle.
He's addicted to being a pirate. He's too far gone to be saved...all you can do is sandbag around his computer. But when the replica cannon arrives via UPS, I suggest you leave.
I know a dude who looks like a pirate, talks like a pirate, drinks like a pirate, will pilfer your cool stuff Capt. Jack Sparrow style if you're dumb enough to leave it out and he doesn't know you, has the exact same mentality and personality as Prince Vultan of the Hawkpeople from the old Flash Gordon movie, and owns Multiple Actual Cannon which he likes to set off at the local Renaissance Faire. Oh, and he's married to a hot weird chick who's into chainmail bikinis.
To heck with being a pirate online. I've seen firsthand that you can do a *lot* better than that!
Or maybe society is just a collection of people and you should let people be who they are.
Some of us like friends that care.
Others like friends to mind their own.
And, y'know, stating that "people who mind other people's business" are the ones "fucking up" society just means you're a hypocrite since you apparently think other people should change to meet your standards, which contradicts your opinion that people should mind their own business.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Just FYI. You might want to read my responses further down in the thread. I absolutely and totally agree with you. I am disgusted by the extremes that "mind your own business" has been taken to these days.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
I was addicted to WoW for 2 years, in the end my family sat down with me, including my older brother who I have a huge amount of respect for. And they just straight up told me I was wasting away and that I had so much potential to excel at things other than a computer game. That gave me the jolt I needed, Iogged on to my toons, de'd all the decent gear, deposited it all in my guilds bank, deleted my toons one by one. That was last Friday night, the following Monday I joined them gym, have been 3 times this week as well as 2 6km runs. Lifes goood. Maybe that's what he needs? Some sort of intervention by people he respects (Family, friends, maybe an old teacher etc.)
I am sorry for you. I really am.
This sense of self-righteousness pretty much sums up your entire reply. I don't need your pity, and neither do my friends. I have very few close friends, but I am fiercely loyal to those few. I have friends that I would take a bullet for, but I could count them on one hand and not need my thumb or my pinkie. I'm happy that way, and I'd like to think those around me are too. They always know exactly where they stand, and so do I. Is honesty not the foundation of any healthy relationship?
The pinnacle of arrogance is not so much believing that you can never make a mistake in your own life or go down those roads, but that you will know when you are doing it. Sometimes it takes someone close to you to give you that swift kick in the jimmy to let you know you are doing something stupid.
And sometimes the crazy chance you take that all your friends warn you away from defines your life and tempers you into a better person. I like having friends who, in certain situations, might advise caution, but who know that when my mind is set on something there's nothing they can do. I have to make my own mistakes, and I've made a lot, but I learn from them. You can't coddle people and shield them from the world, no matter how much you love them.
Additionally, I think being one of your "friends" would be depressing.
Any of my acquaintances who feel that way are more than free to go their own way. If they keep holding on anyway, they're not looking for a friend, they're looking for a life raft. Which leads me to...
That kind of thing is typically what feeds directly into suicidal thoughts during the aftermath of some kind of traumatic event.
I'm not a counselor. I'm not a doctor. I don't try to be. I don't claim to be. I pride myself on being a good listener, and I take the giving of advice as a solemn responsibility. But if I give you advice and try to help you, and you just don't listen, then so be it. You are set on your path, you're a big boy, and I'm not your father. If someone close to me has a traumatic event I'm going to be there for them, but I can't do it all. If, god forbid, that person should commit suicide, you're saying that would be on me? Come on.
Your definition of friend seems to be pretty watered down. I call those people acquaintances, not friends. Friends are the people that WILL go to hell and back for you, and that you will go to hell and back for.
I guess I'm just not a big fuzzy teddybear who's anxious to brag about how many friends he has and how popular he is. I'm happy having one or two very close friends and just a lot of other people I hang out with. But frankly I just have too much going on in my own life to try to play shrink, priest, and confidant to every single person in the latter group who has a bad day and needs a hug. I care. I'm going to be kind and supportive. But don't violate the boundaries of our relationship by trying to use me as your flotation device.
I could go on and on, but it's just very clear that we have two very different views of the friend relationship, and it's clear that we're both happy where we are. The difference is that you don't see me telling you how sorry I am that you're not more like me, and how depressing that must be for your friends. Get over yourself.
--Obyron
Stop doing anything that enables him to play all the time.
Move out.
Tape a note on his computer telling him what you've done, and why.
Forget him until he rejoins the human race.
Actually most "religious" wars are just conflicts over resources or land, and religion is used as an excuse.
Put a lot of laxative in his food so that he would spent a lot of time in the washroom(instead of the computer) to think about his actions.
You haven't provided enough information but let's look at it this way:
If he's paying his rent/share of the bills/whatever have you.
If he's doing fine in school while you all are busting your ass and studying...
Then stay out of it? Seriously. What he does with his free time has no bearing on you.
Just go out without him, do things without him. Eventually he'll want to go out, and just invite him out. Don't turn on him and say "WELL WE TRIED TO GET YOU TO GO OUT BUT NOW YOU SCREWED THE POOCH BUDDY!"
Join the online game, with a few other concerned friends, track him down and KILL HIM. Repeatedly, if necessary.
Or hang out on his pirate ship saying "come out to the park!" "it's your turn to cook dinner!" "mow the lawn!" "get a job!" etc.
"It's simple."
Find out what he's doing in the game, that he thinks he can't do offline, and then find a way to let him do whatever it is offline, in a way that won't interfere with his exams.
I got addicted to World of Warcraft for a while because playing a Survival Hunter allowed me to vicariously deal with my sense of inadequacy over the fact that I am unavoidably a civilian. (I've since also come to realise that having said sense of inadequacy was really dumb to begin with, but it was a childhood thing)
I was able to play a leadership role in a number of battlegrounds and instances though, and have some really positive experiences while doing so, (I was also GM of a levelling guild for a bit, which was good) which allowed me to process that neurosis, and also take from it a few elements which to some extent may have improved my personality as well.
That, however, is primarily what people get from MMORPGs, and it's the main reason why they play them. Most people are fairly disempowered and helpless offline. They might have two or three jobs, (that they usually hate) a wife and the proverbial 2.4 kids, station wagon, and labrador dog, and said existence can feel like a jail sentence, especially if you have to work long hours. They're also doing said jobs, most of the time, purely to keep their head above water. There's no creativity there, no enjoyment, and no recognition from the boss. They're not allowed to feel special, to feel like they're somebody important, or to really feel fulfilled.
But in Azeroth, (or Norrath, or $WORLD) it's different.
Offline, I'm an autistic, overweight, single, balding, largely socially isolated UNIX Beard with shortsightedness, a single kidney, and a leg length difference of three inches. I've had a single girlfriend, three years ago, which ended badly due to a combination of her and my baggage, and my father being a narcissistic, amoral, interfering $%^& as well. I largely haven't come across a single woman since who hasn't made fun of me when she's found out I'm interested in her, and whenever I've tried to interact socially with anyone else as well, or develop independence, I've usually gone fairly close to being killed as a result.
I couldn't participate in grading matches in terms of martial arts as a teenager due to said single kidney, and when someone tried to teach me one on one, because of the leg length difference I nearly dislocated my knee the first time I tried to do a kick.
In WoW, none of that matters. I have a far more attractive body, which is athletic and functions with perfect agility. I can travel anywhere I want, within a fairly large environment. Most of all, I can actually do the things that Army recruitment ads talk about, in terms of being part of a group, and eventually developing sufficient knowledge of the game to successfully and positively lead said group. I'm playing a class (the Hunter) which I love and find fulfilling, and I'm also meeting my social interaction and group belonging needs in terms of the instances and battlegrounds I do as well.
Let me ask you; out of those two scenarios, which do you think you're going to want to spend more of your time in?
The answer to that question, is also likely very similar to the reason why the guy in your example is addicted to the game that he is, as well. For some of us, real life isn't exactly a barrel of laughs.
Holden: You're in a desert, walking along in the sand, when all of a sudden you look down...
Leon: What one?
Holden: What?
Leon: What desert?
Holden: It doesn't make any difference what desert, it's completely hypothetical.
Leon: But, how come I'd be there?
Holden: Maybe you're fed up. Maybe you want to be by yourself. Who knows? You look down and see a tortoise, Leon. It's crawling toward you...
Leon: Tortoise? What's that?
Holden: [irritated by Leon's interruptions] You know what a turtle is?
Leon: Of course!
Holden: Same thing.
Leon: I've never seen a turtle... But I understand what you mean.
Holden: You reach down and you flip the tortoise over on its back, Leon.
Leon: Do you make up these questions, Mr. Holden? Or do they write 'em down for you?
Holden: The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.
Leon: [angry at the suggestion] What do you mean, I'm not helping?
Holden: I mean you're not helping! Why is that, Leon?
[Leon has become visibly shaken]
Holden: They're just questions, Leon. In answer to your query, they're written down for me. It's a test, designed to provoke an emotional response... Shall we continue?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Instead of trying to be a psychologist, try to be what you are, a friend. Sure, he might need a psychologist, find one for him and if he ask help, then give him the name, phone number... hell, you should even stay by him when he will call that number and support his decision. Friends are there to support you, and do activities with you. Right now, I think your not going anywhere by confronting him and bashing on the thing he love... imagine this : If he had a girlfriend and he would do stuff with her 18 hours a day, and you would tell him: "it's bad for you, I don't know you anymore", don't you think he would have the same reaction as with his game ? Why not try to play the game with him... you will be sharing something together, and he will probably be really enthusiastic about you joining his Pirate friends. Maybe then, you will be able to have a discussion with him whitout him getting angry. By showing him that you can play without being addicted, that you can accomplish all your other task while not playing 18 hours a day... then he might consider doing the same. Right now, he might only feel isolated and missunderstood.
Unplug.. the... computer?
I'm addicted to something, therefore I'm impervious to MPP!
(I didn't even provide enough assumptions for you to refute my reasoning above!)
"Hegelians, who love a synthesis, will probably conclude that he wears a wig." - Bertrand Russell
I understand, had a person in my house hold doing the same thing. I found if I would block a port or two on the router that would let the game connect stay for a hour or so then let him in then block the voice chat ports this would make it harder to feel apart of the online world. Do not let him or her know what you are doing just blame it on the ISP or something like that. The hope is that the lunching of the game and playing gets hard and hard they start to loss interest. Good luck, MMO are hard to break then drugs.
I completely agree with the first part, and completely disagree with the second. Most people only quit an addiction when they have lost their job, their family, their friends.*
If the family/friends just pretend like nothing is happening, then it's just going to take longer before that person realizes how bad things really are. I'm not advocating the friend trying to physically restrain him from playing - but let him know in a reasonable tone that he thinks he is endangering his well-being with the computer, and that you can't keep being his friend if all he wants to do is play the game.
* Some people still don't do it then, but that's besides the point.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
Get the rest of the housemates to agree, then cancel the internet account. You don't really need one at home anyway, you can use computers at school. Or better yet, downgrade to a really really slow speed if you can get the ISP to do that.
Quite the opposite, our society is fucked up by people who mind other people's business.
Exactly. That and people who spend OPM (Other People's Money), but now I'm off topic. I would mod you up, but I've already commented.
Actually, you may be surprised to learn that women get addicted to gaming just as easily.
A pretty surrealistic attempt at a relationship in late high school went nowhere fast after I showed her a computer game. Her parents didn't have or want a computer, for whatever reason. (Presumably also because back then they cost a lot more and did a lot less, so it wasn't really mainstream yet.) I figure it didn't take more than an hour or two for her to become interested in the computer instead of me. She only wanted to come over, play a game all afternoon, then go back home.
(Cue wisecracks about the computer having a nicer personality than me;)
Plus, probably the best example of a MMO addict I know is... mom. Last I heard, she's sleeping about 4 hours a night 'cause any more and she can't do all her daily quests for that day. So, you know, you would have thought she'd get dad off it, but she actually got more addicted.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Once Sony buy it, they'll fuck it up so badly that your friend will get bored and quit, or possibly go on a murderous rampage at the SOE offices. Either way he's off the computer, which is what you were trying to accomplish.
I only buy pepper spray that's been tested on anti-vivisectionists.
...and it worked fantastic. I got a 30 day free trial for xmas and decided to offer it to my roommate that my other two roommates and I hated. He was addicted by the end of the first day and kicked out of the university within a year.
(Before you flame me, he was well on his way to dropping out, we just helped him along. No one forced him to play.)
Name...That...Autocomplete!
You have mentioned 3 occations where he is not at the computer; sleeping, toilet breaks and stopping to eat ready-meals.
Which leads to some scenarioes that you can put him through. Sleeping pills might seem like a good idea, but in the long run it is expensive and dangerous.
Interestingly the other two options can actually be combined into one, i.e. makeing it so that eating will force him to go to the toilet as often as possible. And your answer here is a good strong laxative. He will now be so busy eating to keep his stomach full and being on the toilet that any attempts to play a MMO will fail. If he should move the computer into the toilet, look into how to shield it against wifi and/or make sure he is always on online voice com.
For you own safety and health:
Know where there is a spare toilet you can use.
Wait a few days before seran wrapping the toilet.
Carbon based humanoid in training.
The most annoying thing about having friends who play MMOs is that they think other people actually care when they talk endlessly about their game. Going out and doing stuff also doesn't seem to work. A friend of mine has a girlfriend, goes to university, goes out socializing but still makes time for his MMO.
Look, you can't force people to listen to what you are saying, this individual apparently has already been told his way of doing things is a problem and has not listened. I love my friends and family, I really do, but I'm not going to enable bad behavior (that's exactly the wrong thing to do); I'll tell them I think it's a bad idea, a horrible idea, but unless it is directly harming me, there's not much I can do other than to tell them what a bad idea it is. If your friends won't listen, then there isn't anything else you can do for them, other than to help them once they are asking for help with the problem (and not the "help get me some more " sort of help).
Here is probably what you may call a 'reformed addict' writing. Won't bore you with my case that's somehow different from inside from your friend's one, just jump to my conclusions. People starts playing games because they're fun. But they keeps playing for other reasons. I belive in the end they think their life sucks. (they don't realize that, so don't tell them, they won't understand). And they don't care a fuck if people in the world dies, are hungry, have terminal-diseases, and so on. In the end it's simple: comparing your options with the options of people around you, if yours are worst, you have to choices: 1) make your options better 2) choose something easier than life This reminds a bit the 'Trainspotting' slogan, trust me, it's even about addiction, but this isn't started from that. Obviously the second choice is easier. As a huge-ego-self-considering-smart guy, i enjoied that MMO so much because the rules ( and sometimes, why not, break them ) were relly simple. They have to be, since if they won't people won't play and software houses won't earn. So if rules are simple, it's easy to make plans, it's easy do act smarter than the others and self-realize yourself winning something ( being the best pvp player or the king of the richest town or whatever ). Actually while you play you don't think it's easy. You think it's easy for you, since if it would be easy for everyone, others won't be loosers. This is why you keep playing. Because it's easier, and sometimes it even makes you feel more realized than how would you will in real life. That's sad. This was my way out: On one side, i was still making this reasoning while playing, so i shame myself in front of others and used to play during night, still going class in the day, even with bad results, still going out with friends, even if i was hurry inside to go back home, and so on. On the other side i was luck. I used to play in an unofficial server and i ruled it. Being at the top makes you get that it's just a matter of time before someone will reach you, and the only way you have to be still at the top is going faster and never stop. But it's a challenge with the developers of the game, and they can't really provide ways to going on playing, still having fun without changing somehow the rules. When lots of rules changes, you finally got that your 'second-life' is in the hands of some programmers somewhere in korea. That's exactly the time i stopped finding playing a fun. ( it wasn't from long time before but does it makes difference if you don't get it ? ) The way out from MMO is, in the end, both simple but hard : you have to reason with the player, to make him get that life is a better challenge to take. Try getting him into some experiences, outside trips, travels, parties, why not? girls or whatever he/she likes. People are all different, if you konw him find things in RL he most likes, and reminds him they're still there and they will be there after his server will be destroyed by a fool with a sledgehammer. Regards
>>That's pretty much the only solution.
Is it? I was thinking that if you were an addict's roommate, you could play games with the router to suck all the fun out of an MMORPG. Hell, just a latency of 800ms and 25% packet loss makes any game feel like pulling teeth. Or if you don't want to make it obvious that you're messing with him, ~450ms and 25% packet loss. It'll become so frustrating it will no longer be fun. And for all the talk about addicts and addictive behavior, at the heart of it, people play MMORPGS because (they think) they're having fun.
And if you don't know how to mess with a router, or you don't have root access to it? Bittorrent. Seriously.
When I was playing a lot of WoW, whenever my roommate started downloading whatever it was he was downloading behind a locked door, I'd have to shut down the game. If it went on for more than a day or so, then I'd escalate to rebooting the router, unplugging his ethernet line, etc., which is why I'd recommend making sure the person conducting the "intervention" keep the router in a locked cabinet or room.
I'm not saying you need to conjure up the ghosts of Christmas Past, Present and Future, but I've found it very effective just to get people to really imagine what their lives have been, and will be if they continue on their path.
Encourage him, in whatever way you can, to imagine two futures for himself, one if he continues on this path, and one if he cleans himself up and gets his life back on track. Just telling him isn't enough - some kind of dramatic demonstration is better. Like when parents take their drug addicted kids to hospitals or rehab to learn first hand what drugs will do.
You know your friend best, so how you present it is something you'll have to think about, but I do know from experience that the logical argument approach never works on someone who's resistant to it. You need to be a little emotionally manipulative, without it being obvious that you're manipulating them.
Ask him why he wants to spend his time away from reality. It's his choice, but maybe somebody who cares can talk him out of it.
Or stop him some other way. Like cutting the internet. Everyone in the house will probably need to do the same as him. No games, no internet on your personal computers.
I think it is time for the cable at your house to get accidentally severed while you are mowing the lawn. See how he likes cold turkey. Or pay some 12 year old punk to hack his account and kill his character, nothing ruins a MMO quicker than the death of a character you have spent weeks building up.
What we need to do is pay people to play games. Make a profession out of it, and promote the growth of ARGs.
DO take away the source of the addiction and everything which might pull him back in. /active/ fun things with him.
DO
DO have a person in authority around. This person should be able and competent, not some moron.
DO give something back (or enable him) to replace the addiction. Preferably something he likes or complies with his goals in life.
DO give space for emotions, but...
DON'T allow his emotions to control your (re)actions.
DO be honest (100% needed here).
DO take time for your own emotions. You're going to shed some tears, trust me on this.
DO establish structure in his life. Shove it down his throat if needed, however...
DON'T become abusive (in any way).
DON'T allow yourself to be abused.
DO remain calm.
DO try to figure out what created the space for the addiction to occur in the first place and send him to therapy, if needed (make sure he goes).
DO be patient. It takes time to get rid of addictions.
DO be observant. In the beginning he'll do anything to get to his addiction.
DO have a social worker or (even better) a therapist available.
If the person starts shouting, his eyes dilate, his face becomes red and he starts clenching his fists, lower your voice to a level that he's got to concentrate to hear you. Anger and concentration cannot occur together. Doing this might very well spare you several bruises. Making him laugh will also help.
Ask him whether he's impotent or yes. Every day.
Well I don't think I will be buying champions online now.
Actually most "religious" wars are just conflicts over resources or land, and religion is used as an excuse.
That "excuse" is a prime recruitment tool for the unwashed masses, who do the majority of the fighting. Without that excuse, the resource conflict would be front and center in people's minds, and I bet most would find that conflict to be a lot less noble and worthy of dying for.
You don't understand addiction if you think it something to be fought with logical persuasion. And you are probably normal in saying to ditch him, but really, I'm disgusted by how callous people are today. Friendships and relationships involve a little inconvenience, not just saying, 'well, I told him it's a bad idea, fuck him!'
Take it from someone who tried to save an ex-girlfriend once. If you get too close and they're on a downward spiral they can take you down with them, then just as you think you're making progress they can turn on you. Now THAT is callous! If you can put in time and effort to help a friend with a reasonable chance of success, fair enough. If they're just going to drag you down with them, the right thing to do is walk away.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Ok, sorry for the subject. It's just, that Slashdot often has many people, giving you dangerous half-knowledge.
First and foremost, you have to realize, that every addiction is made up of two parts. The first one is, that it is always a substitute act for something that they do not get, but desperately need. (Like love.)
The second one is massive repression of reality.
So in short, you first have to find out what he's replacing.
Mind you that so matter what you do, NEVER EVER question his self-esteem or if he does the right thing! Do it once, and you lost the game, because now he stops listening to you.
What you basically have to do, is to offer him what he did not get, do it an a way that lets him keep his reality and self-esteem intact, and offer it to him in a way that lets him make them both better.
That's the key: Do not say "you are lower than you think, get up here". Say "you are ok, and hey, I have a gift for you".
The other key is to let him realize and "come up with the idea", that it would be even cooler to change his life in the way "he came up with". ^^
Maybe you have seen "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", and how the women there manipulate the dad into thinking he came up with a great idea. That's how you do it! ^^
Now you got a wonderful glowing life in the next room, and he opened the door... but he won't come over anyway? :)
Well... that's the human efficiency showing itself as inertial. You know. How people did not replace the Internet Explorer, for some stupid reason, like "I'm used to it.". Turns out it's usually not that stupid to think that way. Just now it is. But you can't say him that he is stupid.
So you have to make it in a way, that lets him fall into that new life trough lazyness / being economical. ^^
Let's say his computer breaks down. Or loses his Internet connection, because he can't pay it anymore. That would get him up and anywhere he can play, in a matter of seconds. ^^
OR: To everything else that gives him what he really needs inside (and was replacing).
Say he was lonely, and the MMOs offered friendships. Now if his PC breaks down, and then you offer him a party with nice girls and some new friends, you got a good chance of him coming to it. Then you would work that way.
But of course, you do not have to kill his computer to help him. It's just one example of creating that needed gradient.
Now I know, that in reality, all this is very very hard. Most of the time, you can't offer him what he's missing. And it takes a big amount of commitment, hard thinking, putting yourself in his position, etc., over months, to solve it.
Well... that is the reason it did not already happen. So you have to ask yourself if you are up to it. At least 99.9% of all people are not. (Oh, and at least 99.9% of all MMO players are also not addicted!)
Also I should mention the root of psychological healing, so you are prepared to react in the right way:
Most people hide their problem very very deep, because it is so horrible to even think of it. (Like not having a girlfriend for ages. Or missing the dead mother.)
So usually people of course will fight as if it were for their life, if you want to push them to look at it.
The problem is, that you can only heal, when you are able to look straight at it, and go trough it, without having a problem with it. Many times.
The only thing that lets them attack that problem, is to have a safety net. Which is the job of a professional psychotherapist. (If the guy so much as talks about medication, with average problems like your friend has, he is obviously incompetent, because he can't handle it. But be aware that nearly all professional therapists can't handle even average problems, because they only went into that field, to help themselves. And often failed, or only did it in a partial way, thereby making their own twisted views on the world even more sneaky. Which is very bad for heal
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
easy i saved all my items from the mail into my bank tell everybody goodbye didnt give a shit when they said i was important and all the excuses and closed the game. 5 days later subscription ran off also stopped reading news about it on wow specific websites like wowinsider.com and mmo-champion.com. 2 weeks later new patch came out and i was like meh ill play later when i have time in my life.
Sometimes people play games (or watch tv, drink, do drugs, whatever) to escape from their lives, in such a case the addiction/compulsion might be a symptom of the problem, not the source.
If you get him to give up this method of escape then he might just replace it with another, possibly more destructive method of escape.
If possible try to get him to recognize and address what he is escaping from.
Ask him what he would like his perfect RL to be, if he can honestly say the way it is, then he has made his choice.
Sometimes we have learn the hard way, other times we just need to be accepted and understood.
Real friends are supposed to say things their friends don't want to hear.
It's pretty self-evident, but amazing how often it's forgotten.
There are those of us who fall by the wayside, and those who carry on. Its just the way its.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Steal his game password and kill his character.
Why are you asking computer geeks? Ask a drug rehab professional. They're well versed in dealing with addiction. I don't think the type matters.
-- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
There is a very effective way to help, www.olganon.com ; is a 12 step based support group for Gamers. The 12 step program is the most proven way for people of any addiction. I speak from experience.
Ah, but you did hit bottom. Your fear of changing was overcome by your fear of NOT changing! Obsession is overwhelmed by compulsion -- the need to make the pain you saw in others go away. In short, your motivations changed for the better! Well done!
The only issues in helping another hit bottom is how hard and how fast. You're not out to ruin them -- they've done that to themselves already. You're out to help them see, as happened to you. And they're not going to like what they see, ever. That's the point.
Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
THe fact that you ahve noticed this in your friend is the first step. Congratulations! I applaud you.
THe first thing you need to do is observe him. Focuse on what other interests he might once have had, and gradually introduce those to him at times when you feel his attacfhment to the game is the weakest. But, be careful not to approach it from an obvious, -oh im trying to save y0ou from yourself- attitude. He will smell it on you, and vehemently go against whatever you are trying to accomplish with him. YOu need to introduce these ideas in such a way that his mind begins to work on them hi8mself, in a latent, subconscious manner. It may begin with ideas, or visuals, or actions. Wants and desires are the key. if yiou can balance his desire to paly the game with another desire, you may be able to wean him off of it gradually. Also, nad this is the MOST IMPORTANT, try to discover -DISCREETLY- why he is hiding in the game liek this. Wjhat area of his life is SO deficient that he feels he needs to lose himself in a game to feel what he is trying to feel? My love nd encouragement go out to you.
by the way, if you wnat to contact me, go to fanfiction.net and type in ChellusAuglerie. love nad hugs, sweethearts!
My big mmo addiction was Utopia (yea im an old fart) but I can honestly say the only thing that cured that non-stop craving (and Id sleep less than this guy in war) was acheiving something in the game I could never reproduce - hitting an apex if you will - even when I came back to the game a year or so after we topped the charts I didnt put my all into it as before. Guess you could call what I did the "step down program" cause I eventually quit for good. (now if you could only tell that to the narcotic receptors in my brain heh!) This guy is not going to be addicted to that game forever (im sure he has others in mind) but perhaps after he racks up enough accomplishments the game will lose its luster. Let him win - or otherwise find what he's looking for. They dont actually mean MMOs ARE crack they are just very similar. And if he flunks out and ends up doing whatever it takes for food, shelter and internet thats not a horrible thing - someone has to flip our burgers right? Seriously, I know many people who consider themselves to be very happy in life. At least he's not a couch potato. He is exerting some force on the universe besides butt on couch, etc. Long live binge gaming!
will work for dragon quest localization
Some people find meaning in their life, even if it's leading a tiny group of people in a virtual environment.
I would say he's more prodcutive then a lot of people who grind away at their lives in the same way.
If he's hungry, he'll feed himself. If he's tired, he'll sleep. If he wants sex, he'll get a girlfriend or just sex.
It's all about wants, desires, and motivation. He'll do what he enjoys the most and what he doesn't mind doing for the rest of his life. There is no reason to force what you believe on top of him.
This is comming from someone who has lived both sides. People on the outside always look in and say it's wrong. People on the inside don't care enough to look out because they went there to escape from the outside in the first place. Believe it or not, there is actually social environments online too!
Just live with it. This is going to sound cynical, but perhaps you got addicted to him and are sad now that he found something better to do with his time? Anything can be classified as a addiction if you spread the term wide enough.
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If there wasn't religion, another excuse would be made. People feel better about themselves if they are fighting for what seems to be a noble cause. If it wasn't religion, it'd be racial harmony or something else. (and it often has been something else when it wasn't religion).
First, DO NOT have him treated by anyone who considers a purely behavioral problem to be an "addiction". Addiction requires biological adaptation to a substance. If you go to see any kind of counselor or psychologist for this, on the first session they'll ask if he's ever been to a 12 step meeting, on the second meet they'll suggest it, on the third they'll require it. They're charging you money for you going and getting 'treatment' elsewhere. He can go to meetings himself without paying through the nose simply to get a referral.
Second, his behavior is obsessive/compulsive. If he needs treated for that, it's in the realm of psychiatry.
His behavior may be the proper response to a situation, including an internal one involving feelings. If the former, talking through it might help. If the latter, just being there while he goes through it may be the best you can do. Ask him what's going on. If he tells you, tell him you two can talk if he wants, If he can't, tell him you'll be there with him and for him.
Finally, an analogy: The king called his wise man to his chambers one day. It seems the king's son had taken it into his head that he was a chicken. It kept the kitchen staff amused, but if word got out that the prince was a chicken, there may be war. The wise man said he'd take care of things. For the next meal the wise man came to sat with the king, and down on the floor, naked, and eating bird seed, was the prince. So the wise man took of his robes, got under the table and started eating the seeds. The boy stared at him and said 'What are you doing?' The wise man replied, I'm a chicken, I'm eating seeds. Why do you ask?' So the went back to eating. A little while later the wise man said, "I sure am cold. Let's put on our robes to keep warm. We can still be chickens though." The boy shrugged, and they got into their robes.
In the interest of brevity, the process gets repeated for 'eating regular food' and 'sitting in the chair'. When the king asked the wise man if he'll cure the boy of thinking he's a chicken. The wise man said, 'It is of no consequence what others think of us, our us them, or each of us ourselves, so long as we are satisfied with ourselves. So grab a controller, get in ther and play along. Ans ask him.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
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:Begin /.
wake up
start up the computer
read the e-mails
read the news
read
read MMO-champion.
read UF
run CurseUpdater
Start WoW
repeat grind dailies and Ulduar until CurrentTime()=3:00AM
exit WoW
turn computer off
Brush teeth
go to bed
Goto Begin
If not for religion, in many of those wars there'd have been no soldiers.
This is one of the big reasons why religious societies have survived so well, historically -- as king, if the deity/deities are your side, you can justify even asking children to fight for your cause (expanding land and resources), and you can convince your poor subjects to fight *to the death* for reasons that IRL don't actually justify it.
[I'm over-simplifying, of course, but think about it a bit....]
I have had a similar situation occur with a friend of mine as well. Unfortunately, there wasn't a whole lot I could do to help him. Several years ago, when Final Fantasy XI was released, I dove into it because I was a final fantasy nut. It was a fun game, and I played it a lot, but I always got all my schoolwork done, and never missed a class because of it or anything like that. I put in about 120 days of playtime in about 2 years. That's a lot of playtime, I thought, this is not good. I should quit so I can spend that time doing something more beneficial to myself. So I did. Well, in the meantime, my roommate was going through some tough times, was on welfare, smoking too much pot, had some serious depression problems, and didn't have the motivation to find a job, because by some miracle he was able to live on $550/month (seriously, it was amazing, he always paid his rent on time, and only occasionally got help from his family). Him and a friend of mine ended up getting him into FF XI. Seemed harmless enough at the time, but he has an addictive personality and he was hooked badly. I think he put in over 700 days of playtime in the 3 years that he was playing while he was my roommate. Now, I owned the house, and eventually decided that I wanted the upper floor to myself, and no longer wanted a roommate because I no longer required it in order to maintain my financial comfort. The arrangement that kept him living at my place was that he only had to pay rent. Phone, cable, internet etc I paid for as long as he mowed the lawn, took garbage out and did some other chores around the house. This was very convenient for him. When I had to kick him out, (which was a very difficult thing to do, btw) he had no other choice but to quit smoking pot and find a job. Turns out I was a bit of an enabler. My friends and I were all very concerned about how it would turn out... my fear was that he would not be able to find a place to live and I would start seeing him begging for money on a street corner somewhere. Fortunately this was not the case. Fact is, when someone realizes how screwed they are, they usually smarten up. My only advice is to take away anything you can from him that is enabling him. Where is he getting money from? If it's his parents, it's time for you and his parents to have a serious talk about his problem. Is there a convenient living situation for him that you can take away from him, disguising it as a move for your own personal preference? If you haven't already, then it might be a good idea to show him the reality of his situation, what he's doing to himself, like... how badly he's screwing himself. Make note of things like... what your salary will be when you get out of school and start working. Be a jerk if you have to... make fun of him about the fact that he's going to be living in his mom's basement, single, alone and a loser for the rest of his life. Perhaps an intervention of some kind is in order? It's all easier said than done, of course. But the other option is for him to hit rock bottom on his own, the only way he'll stop is if he can't afford to pay the bills anymore, or his computer dies and he can't afford to fix it. At that point it would be a good thing if his parents know that he's no longer using his computer for school, so they won't bail him out.
You can't help someone else break an addiction. They have to want to do it themselves. And they have to do so desperately. For most people that means that they have to reach bottom and then make a choice of whether they have something more meaningful in their lives to move to or to stay at the bottom with their addiction. If you want to help your friend, don't enable the addiction (don't give him money, or whatever resources he may ask of you). But from time to time offer him to do other things together. This will keep reminding him that there are other things in life that he enjoys doing.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Forward him emails from the Everquest Widows email list about parents ignoring their babies to play video games. Maybe that'll show him he's not special.
Hate to break it to you, but history disagrees with you.
Very good point. Religion has often been used in history as a recruiting tool, and a very effective one. Nothing gets people more riled up than each others deities. My point was that the actual reason for most of the wars was not religion, but material factors such as land and resources. But you are correct, religion has been used in many wars as not only an "excuse" but also as a tool to help fight the war.
I actually think it may be a big advantage for our generation. A problem that a non-trivial number of elderly people face is the lack of anything to do when retired. This leads to two (non exclusive) things:
1) Senility. While there are genetic conditions that contribute to/cause this, it is also environmental. If you do nothing all day, leaving your mind idle, it really can start slipping much faster. Even when there are genetic factors at work, keeping the mind active can help counteract them. Video games are being used with some success at treating Alzheimers.
2) Refusal to leave work. We've all probably encountered the old guy who just won't quit. He's an impediment to work, doesn't contribute anything useful, but won't leave despite being eligible for retirement. Reason is, the job is his life. He's got nothing else to do, so he clings to it.
There may be less of this with the videogamer generation. It is a hobby that is easy to continue your whole life. You can be wheelchair bound and severely mobility impaired, and yet you can still play games. Not high speed FPSes, of course, but there are plenty of games that'll wait on you. It also isn't that expensive a hobby. $500-1000 a year will easily keep you in new games and upgrades to your game system. Compare that to some hobbies, like traveling, where it is hard to get a plane ticket for $500. Means that even if you don't have a huge retirement fund, it is still a viable hobby for you.
Heck I fully plan on doing just that when I retire. Videogames are for me the best use of my goof off time. I tend to find them the most entertaining use of time, not to mention good entertainment for the dollars (hence I don't watch much TV or movies). My plan when retired is to spend time gaming instead of working. Doesn't mean that's all I'll do, of course, isn't all I do now. However it'll likely be my default "Well I don't have anything that needs doing, I don't feel like doing anything special, so let's goof off and play some games."
That is the part of retirement that can be wonderful. If you have a hobby, and the money and/or physical ability to pursue it, you can do so almost as much as you want. My grandpa did that for years in the form of restoring old tractors. He'd rework and rebuild them in his machine shop to new condition. They ran too, great fun to drive around on as a grandkid. No point to it, he wasn't making the world better or anything, he was just making himself happy with what he loved, and it worked well.
Hopefully, videogames can help provide that for some people who otherwise might not have something.
Handbook for the Therapeutic Use of LSD-25
There are 11 types of people, those who know unary and those who don't.
This is usually the thought that kills a lot of games. I love being able to upgrade and change and improve a character. But, as soon as I realize I'm just working toward another level the pointlessness is the seed of boredom that kills a game for me.
I disagree with people who say there is nothing anyone can do to help this guy. Giving up like that without even trying is pure stupidity.
That said, there are definitely bad ways to go about trying to help this guy.
Without talking about the bad ways though...
The main thing is to just appeal to the guy as a friend. You start by having a genuine conversation. You find one of those rare moments he isn't playing, like say when he's microwaving some food, and you stop him and ask him if he's got a second. Don't appear agitated -- just be casual and genuine.
You get the conversation going by saying you have something coming up, like a BBQ or sporting event, etc, and offer him to come along. At this point he'll probably say no, because he 'has a lot of stuff to do' which really just means he wants to play the game. You're expecting this, and you've prepared for it.
So you mention that there's another event coming up a few days or a week after, and you offer him to go along with that. Again, he'll probably say no, though he might say yes. If he says no, you continue on with events in the future (you may need to have prepared several, so come with at least 5-10 in mind).
At some point he'll get tired of saying no. His attention span is focused on the game and he'll want to appease you just to get back to the game as soon as possible. He's not going to just say "I'm never going to do anything with you ever again" because despite his addiction he would realize just how bad that sounds.
So he'll agree to go do something outside of the game. You have no secured the first step.
The second step is to bring him along, and take his mind off the game by interacting with him. Again, be genuine and do not make it obvious you have a hidden agenda.
The second step may be hard to pull off-- he may cancel at the last minute on the event. You'll have various ways to make it harder to cancel, but if ultimately he does cancel, then just go along with it and return to step one. After several attempts at step 2 he will finally go with you to an event outside of the game.
You then repeat this process indefinitely. If you have trouble, use a line like this:
"I want you to know that I understand how much you like that game and I don't think anything bad of it. I bet it's a pretty bad-ass game. If you want to keep playing it and not go to the BBQ that's fine, but just know that I'm not going to stop asking you to come along, because I enjoy your company just as much as you enjoy that game, hell, maybe more. Just wanted you to to know. Good luck kickin ass today man, talk to you in a few."
You have to ultimately downplay the effect so that he thinks your opinion of the game's effects on his life is less than he even thinks. Then he'll no longer be on the defensive at all. You also need to combine it with these events outside of the game, and you need to be persistent.
Otherwise, if you don't really value his friendship, the last effort you should make is to inform people who do that he is in this condition and then move on and enjoy your life knowing you've done what you could do.
But never, ever, just give up without even trying.
Never.
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
There is probably a time and a place for this. If the friendship is doomed anyway, then you could use this as a last resort. But look at it like Fight Club: you have to lose.
That's right, you are going to start the fight, and get him very angry, and you are going to lose.
Otherwise, it probably won't work.
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
The fuel to the fire in EQ is the idea of the (almost) unattainable unless you play for a serious amount of time: the level 99 character. So the first say 10 levels you can get to in 10 hours of gameplay (I played about that much and quit, think I was at level 12). But here comes the addictive part, you have to get all the way to level 99 (if I remember this is easily over 1000 hours). The addict tell himself they have to finish everything including level 99 another class, complete all quests, get best equipment. The level 99 is the sand trap. If I recall, there was an expansion pack when EQ first came out that bumped it up to level 120. Lord knows, its probably up to 200 or 10,000 (?!) by now.
I think the addiction factor would be halved if the characters were maxed at level 30 which would take 40 hours of gameplay which is not good business?
I had a long-time friend about 7 years ago who was (and probably still is) addicted to Everquest, if not he's moved on to WOW. He played all waking hours on EQ. He would research and print out boatloads on strategies, quests, characters, bad guys .... you name it. This would happen during downtime at work, on break and after work. I think this was also because he didn't have a printer at home. After he got back from work he told me he'd have supper then play EQ until 2 or 3 am - sometimes longer. He usually showed up to work real tired.
Keep breaking his computer until he comes clean. He'll run out of money eventually! Just make sure you won't get caught ;-)
get him addicted to slashdot instead
I'm glad my phd advisor is on facebook rather than slashdot... =D
Here's the best answer I think you could get: "You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped".. From your brief blurb, it sounded like he's quite sensitive to the situation, so that to me suggests awareness. The anger you refer to sounds to me like a complete rejection of any help and at the end of the day, if he doesn't want help, he can't be helped. Good luck
How To Help a Friend With an MMO Addiction? Get him a time card.
"Religion" is a very problematic categorisation. Not everyone in the world defines spiritual values, the search for meaning etc. as "Religion" ("Atheists" being a good example, another being those whose religion doesn't get counted as "Religion") Those bashing "Religion" as a general thing are making almost meaningless statements unless one assumes many things, often monotheistic tradition defined "religion" in western acedemic circles....
Anyway, the crusade against general "religion" seems to be at best a crusdae for indivudualism and at worse a crusade for pure ignorance. Definitions are important.
Stupidity is its own reward.
of the habit by breaking up, losing everything , having to work it out on my own, doing a few months of time after losing absolutely everything again and when i played it again for the first time, realising that nothing had changed after 4 years and it gets boring after a few hours now
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
"Your enemy isn't the *game* but the *addiction,*"
Right, the enemy isn't the crack, it's the addiction. Don't take the crack away.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
You need to contact anybody who gives a goddamn about him(friends, family) and arrange an intervention just as you would if he were addicted to crack. hire a psychologist who specializes in doing interventions to aid you in this process.
I think that, as a friend, you should do whatever you reasonably can to help him. If I am aware of problems that my friends have, that is what I try to do, and would hope that my friends do that for me as well. Nonetheless, if the person is in denial and severely addicted, you may not be able to help much.
However, remember that you are far from alone and that there are many sources of help available for both you and your friend. This Slashdot site is one of them, but some other good ones that I am aware of are On-Line Gamers Anonymous (OLGA) at http://www.olganon.org/ , Gamer Widow at http://gamerwidow.com/ (note that despite it's name, it also has support for gamers as well), DailyStrength Video Game Addiction (VGA) support group at http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Video-Game-Addiction/support-group , and WoW Detox at http://www.wowdetox.com/ . I am a recovering video game addict myself. For me, I used counseling from a friend as well as the OLGA Website (such as informally following their 12 steps) and, to a lesser extent, the DailyStrength one.
Note that even if you cannot get your friend to directly get help himself, the first 2 sites listed above (i.e., OLGA and Gamer Widow) have sections specifically for family and friends of gamers. I am sure that you can find something already previously posted that would be useful, or can get specific help by repeating your query.
Or is it just the symptom? My experience with MMO addiction comes not from the game itself, but rather is a manifestation of there being a massive void in my life that the game naturally fills out without judgement or mockery. It just accepts, and gives me what I need so badly that I can't get in the real world, be it adventure, social contact or a sense of achievement. If you want to help your friend get away from the game, you must figure out which of these things he derives from the game and not from his real life, then help him obtain it from a non-gaming source. Short of that, learn to speak in pirate speech, I guess.
Game addiction is the only one that can be justified by logic and should be fought by logic.
Maybe it should be renamed to Crackdot?
Give Derren Brown a call and get him to shock him out of his addiction with some sort of crazy Zombie prank. Even if it doesn't work, it'll be cool to watch...
Unexpect the expected!
Mario Vargas Llosa
Carlos Fuentes.
Gabriel Garcia Marquez famously locked himself from all human contact, except his wife, when writing "100 Years of Solitude"
Some brilliant people are obsessive about what they do, they may look deranged to the uninformed outsider...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... that addiction can only be treated once the addictive person has had enough.
There is no other way, to think there is is self delusional.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It's just obsessive behaviour is all.
You could have an intervention:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpkQSB_h5lY
Oh, you want to have an intervention to play LESS WoW??? (It's a comic sketch where some guildmates are trying to lure their friend back into the game- as a result, he misses a three-some with two sexy ladies.)
He's gone Jim... The only thing that will work is for him to fail out, move back in with his parents so they can babysit him, and go to community college.
Seen it happen several times... I could understand WoW, or Eve, but PoTBS?
Failing that, once he's living under a bridge, the mmo addiction will probably stop.
-Viz
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
You CANNOT solve an addicts problem for them. They have to do it. I know because I've been there with 3 different friends and my brother.
All you can do is alternate between sadness, frustration, anger, and pity for them.
Sorry but you are wrong. "Abandoning" them is the best thing you can do. It gets them that much closer to rock bottom, which is where they need to be to start getting better. Until they feel some pain, and experience loss because of their behavior, they won't have any reason to fix the problem.
If you give them money, food or free rent you are an enabler and make it worse. If you hang out with them and try to be their friend, they will end up screwing you and damage your relationship beyond repair.
The game didn't do that to them, neither did a disease, they did it to themselves.
You make your own reality and are 100% responsible for it.
While we are waxing philosophical, the real problem with society is that everyone refuses to take responsibility for themselves and blames their problems on everything but the person in the mirror. With some rare exceptions that's always who caused the situation.
-viz
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
I agree with most of what you said except your insitance that abandoning them to protect yourself is the correct path. As long as we are swapping anecdotal evidence, I have personally seen interventions get 2 people on the road to recovery from alchohol. (The professional type interventions, not just a bunch of friends confronting). I have known 3 to kick drugs through just friends confronting them.
I agree that people need to take responsibility for their own actions, but part of that is taking responsibility for your part in the state of society around you. This "fuck em all" mentality that has been so prevelant lately is tearing apart our society. It isn't leftists, or right wingers, or any specific ideology. It is the notion that we don't have to be good neighbors and friends anymore. That helping people is "wrong" or should be looked down on. Walking away and saying "take responsibility for your own actions" is just another variety of blaming someone else for breakdowns in society.
Especially with the recent holiday, I cannot even begin to express the rage I have towards people that advocate that abandonment crap with addictions. Go talk to some combat veterans. If they talk about the shit they have seen while they are sober, they are probably lying to impress you. Especially the vietnam era...they were shit on by their government, and then shit on by their countrymen. You don't know that persons past. You don't know the things they have been through. Escapism never works, but there are many things people cannot deal with alone and when they are abandoned the only thing they have left is that escape. Daddy spanked me is not the same thing as daddy raped me. My friend died in a car wreck is not the same as I carried my friend's arm back so we could bury what was left of him. The vast majority of the population cannot even begin to pretend to understand those types of problems so to sit and watch them pass judgement from their little soap boxes pisses me off. $0.99 could buy that guy on the corner a cheezeburger and more people are willing to just sit and ignore him or worse, harrass him.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
I used to work in a LAN gaming centre, so allow me to furnish you with the creed of the MMO addict:
1 - Maintain the highest level and best equipment available throughout the expansions.
2 - Maintain dominance in PvP.
3 - Time spent obeying verse 1 is an investment. Invest as much as possible.
Getting someone off this kind of game requires you find something they want to do more than play. Good look finding that. Either that or wait until the game closes. Considering that Everquest and Dark Ages of Camelot are still going, despite World of Warcraft being released after them, that could be a long, long time.
i.e. lack of money, lack of grades, lack of sex. If those are not enough for him, then there is very little you can do.
When I was in school, my fraternity had a problem with a brother who played Everquest all the time. He didn't go to class, flunked out, didn't pay his house bill, mooched off of us for free weed, ect, ect, ect. We used our connections to campus networking and blocked Everquest's port.
While it "solve the problem" of our brother's addition; it really didn't solve the problem with our brother. He still mooched our weed, didn't pay his bills, and flunked out of school; so we eventually had to kick him out of the fraternity house.
No, I will not work for your startup
I was unemployed for a long time after the dotcom bust. During this period, I became extremely depressed and ended up badly addicted to World of Warcraft. I played WoW pretty much non-stop around the clock to the point where it interfered with personal hygiene, much less the time I should have spent looking for a job.
When I finally did find a job, the addiction simply went away on its own. I still log in once in a while to catch up with my in-game friends, but I typically play less than 3 hours per week. I actually have to talk myself into logging in and generally my only motivation to do so is spending time with the friends I made while I was addicted to the game.
As others have said, game/computer/internet addiction isn't like addiction to chemical substances. Solve the underlying problem and the "addiction" pretty much disappears on its own.
Getting your friend to stop playing this MMO will not solve anything. You need to find out why he's immersing himself in the game and deal with that problem.
...there isn't much you can do. Behavior like anger and frustration when you talk about it usually means that the person knows that he/she is addicted, but doesn't want to acknowledge it or accept it. The best thing you can do is leave you phone number and tell the friend that you are willing to listen to his troubles whenever it goes wrong. (and by the sound of it, it looks like it will)
"Any attempt to physically prevent him from playing the game would most likely result in an outburst of anger and possibly physical violence."
It looks like you are not certain what will really happen. You can always try to find out, but it's equally important to know how to tell the friend what you think is wrong. Use a positive connotation like: "we would find it really nice if you would eat together with us when it's dinner time"
"Attempts at telling him he has a problem have been met with derision and angry retorts"
It could just be fear for seeing what is really going wrong. It's a form of resistance.
I've done this once with my own therapist, and all she did was sit still and listen to my venting. I wanted to quit, I've had enough, I rather wanted to walk away instead of doing something about my problems. After 15 minutes of venting and threatening to leave, she just asked me: "and what are you going to do then? Flee again?"
She was right... and I started crying because I didn't know how to handle myself any longer. I was scared and it cause the anger and resistance to change, to do something about it.
She helped me so much that once I was OK, I decided that I wanted to help others this way as well. :)
Most anger I see now is based on fear.
You can block ports, cut the cables or something like that, but as long as the person wants to escape reality by doing something like this, there isn't much you can do.
I give massages and reiki treatments (for real!). More info here: http://www.universele-levensenergie.be
I wish Eugene were alive today because we need that kind of leadership now more than ever.
Stupidity is its own reward.
So what can you do?
1)Talk to him. Not about the game but about what's bothering him, discuss his options and help him work out a 'battle plan' that doesn't involve the game.
2)Engage him. Keep pestering him to get involved in social activities that don't involve a keyboard/controller. Guys night, card games, board games, a weekend camping trip, anything that involves socializing in meatspace.
3)Educate him. Make him realize what he is doing, that he is running away from something and doing in a self-destructive way. A little self awareness goes a long way, remember, he must DECIDE to break the addiction, and he can't make a decision if he doesn't realize he is facing one.
4)As has been noted repeatedly above, sex. It's one of the few basic instincts that is stronger than fear and in some cases is the only reward powerful enough to overcome the fear of the thing he is running from.
I wish you good luck, breaking an addiction is one of the hardest things someone can do.