Left 4 Dead 2 Announced For November

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Left 4 Dead 2 Announced For November

Posted by Soulskill on Monday June 1, 2009 @11:59AM from the we-need-a-zombie-topic-icon dept.

hansamurai writes "Left 4 Dead 2 has been announced at E3, and a trailer for the game has surfaced. It will be released November 17, 2009, just a year after the first game. Gameplay changes include a new focus on melee weapons, especially the iconic anti-zombie weapon, the chainsaw. The cast of characters is brand new, but the plot appears to take place during the same zombie outbreak." The game is being developed for the PC and Xbox 360, and Valve says it will make use of a new version of their AI engine, which has the ability to "procedurally change weather effects, world objects, and pathways in addition to tailoring the enemy population, effects, and sounds to match the players' performance." Rock, Paper, Shotgun got the chance to do a hands-on preview, providing details about the gameplay and confirming that "it's a coherent new imagining of the game, this time bigger, smarter, and far more elaborate. Oh, and gloriously more gory."

231 comments

Sigh... by Chabo · 2009-06-01 12:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

My current PC runs Left 4 Dead only somewhat acceptably, and I was hoping that I could wait till 2010 to buy a new PC.
Sigh... Valve just killed that plan. :/

--
Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
1. Re:Sigh... by jandrese · 2009-06-01 12:05 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Don't worry, this is Valve, it will be delayed until 2012.
  
  --
  
  I read the internet for the articles.
2. Re:Sigh... by Chabo · 2009-06-01 12:06 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry to reply to myself, but I suppose I should tell you what my PC is, to preempt the console fanboys' cries of "LOL If you bought a 360 that wouldn't happen!" I think Valve does an excellent job of making their games run on all kinds of hardware, but my PC is almost 6 years old, with no hardware upgrades in the past 3 years:
  Pentium 4 3.2, Nvidia 6600GT-AGP, 1GB DDR400 RAM.
  I play Left 4 Dead at 1024x768, most settings at Low, and although my average frame rate is usually above 30, it dips below that mark on a regular basis.
  
  --
  Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
3. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:09 · Score: 0
  
  Sounds like it's about time to upgrade, just putting that out there.
4. Re:Sigh... by Brian+Gordon · 2009-06-01 12:19 · Score: 1
  
  It would play DODS or CSS fine. There's no reason to upgrade as long as you're happy with classics and don't drool over the latest releases.
5. Re:Sigh... by Barny · 2009-06-01 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  I think his first post counted as drooling over the latest release.
  
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  ...
  /me sighs
6. Re:Sigh... by Chabil+Ha' · 2009-06-01 12:52 · Score: 1
  
  Tell me about it. I wish they'd drop L4D and the TF2 updates and concentrate on wrapping up Half Life 2: Episode 3. Anything else is just a distraction.
  
  --
  We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
7. Re:Sigh... by Cryacin · 2009-06-01 12:53 · Score: 1
  
  Pentium 4 3.2, Nvidia 6600GT-AGP, 1GB DDR400 RAM.
  Sounds more like your computer is Left 4 Dead.
  
  --
  Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
8. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 13:13 · Score: 0
  
  I have played L4D at maximum settings with no slowdown on a P4 2.8GHz, 2GB RAM and Geforce 8600GTS. It's probably mostly your video card. A 6600 is quite weak these days.
9. Re:Sigh... by joocemann · 2009-06-01 13:27 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  Don't worry, this is Valve, it will be delayed until 2012.
  No.. it will release on time, it will simply be buggy and problematic for the first year.
  L4D was hardly usable for quite some time and is STILL buggy to this day, but obviously they don't care.. they got the $$$.
  Nowadays, if you buy a game in its first year of release, you're paying to beta/bug test it. From what I've seen, only a few game companies (namely japanese ones) have the gumption to release a truly viable product.
10. Re:Sigh... by tibman · 2009-06-01 13:50 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Hardly usable? Did you even play it? I had a blast with a group of buddies.. did all the campaigns in one day. I still play every other day with various steam groups. Valve has done a good job addressing map hacks and other wierdness you run into online. The only thing Valve didn't do right with L4D is releasing only 4 campaigns and 2 of which weren't usable in versus mode.
  
  --
  http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
11. Re:Sigh... by sopssa · 2009-06-01 13:53 · Score: 1
  
  You sir, fail. Both L4D and TF2 were great games to begin with. There was no bugs or crashes like with other games. What even make them better is that Valve continued to improve the game and provide free updates and even free dlc with new campaigns in versus mode and totally new gameplay mode. What other companies do that?
  I for myself are really looking forward to get Left4Dead 2. L4D was honestly my favorite game for last year, I cant even think about how many hours I spent on it, specially in versus mode. I mean, my last favorite games were civ2, settlers2 and megarage2 and simcity. Left4Dead bringed back the same fun in gameplay even now years after. Actually, now that I wrote about it I'll just feel like going to play it again. See you later.
12. Re:Sigh... by Goldberg's+Pants · 2009-06-01 14:00 · Score: 1
  
  What a bunch of garbage. L4D was fine out of the box.
  As for this "sequel"... SCREW YOU Valve. What the hell? A full blown sequel a year later? That basically tells everyone who bought the game that we paid to beta test. This is just rampant money grubbing piss taking.
  Unless there is some sort of upgrade deal for existing L4D owners, Valve can shove it. Bought the game back in February for full retail price, expecting the usual Valve support and they pull this. Not cool.
13. Re:Sigh... by Pinckney · 2009-06-01 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  Why do you feel the need to buy new games? Is L4D not fun? Will it not continue to be fun regardless of what other games are released?
14. Re:Sigh... by Torvaun · 2009-06-01 14:16 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it -is- a game that relies on other users to enjoy. If his friends are all playing Left 4 Dead 2, then he's stuck dealing with bots or randoms.
  
  --
  I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
15. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 14:36 · Score: 0
  
  Never had a single bug with L4D. Try again.
16. Re:Sigh... by Clay+Pigeon+-TPF-VS- · 2009-06-01 14:37 · Score: 1
  
  If it is agp ati made an agp version of the 3850.
  If it is pcie you've got all sorts of upgrade options right now, which you can plug into your new computer once you build it. Get a new video card. The 6600 is pretty weak compared to what is available now.
  
  --
  Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
17. Re:Sigh... by Shikaku · 2009-06-01 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iD-Qvj-at0
  Right.
18. Re:Sigh... by Fishchip · 2009-06-01 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  Then don't buy it, and keep on L4D1. Valve going to disable L4D1 online play once 2 comes out? Problem is where?
19. Re:Sigh... by hairyfeet · 2009-06-01 15:12 · Score: 1
  
  So build your own. I had a copy of XP X64 which I picked up in 05 when folks started unloading it for the "great new Vista"(Bwa ha ha ha) and at Tigerdirect I picked up a nice barebone AMD Phenom dual core(supports the new quads) with 4Gb of RAM(goes up to 32Gb) a nice black case with 4 USB ports on front and a 300Gb SATA2 for a whole $281 shipped. Now all I have to do is slap a $50-$100 graphics card and I'm good to go. The 3100 onboard plays Bioshock nice but I want a gig of RAM on the card. If you don't want to deal with the irritation of Vista, get a board that supports XP X64. I've been running it for a month now and love it. All my old programs run great and it handles smooth.
  Anybody here have any exp with the 4350 Radeon? Money is a little tight here ATM and I have to pick up a capture card and a fat HDD so if I can save a little cash on the GPU it is always good. I won't be playing Crysis or going widescreen, so insane performance isn't required. Is the 4350 worth having or would it be a little better to go ahead and blow a little more for the 4650? This is my first AMD rig since the old Barton core and I'm out of the loop. I've been Intel+Nvidia but I think I want to go all AMD/ATI this round for the bang for the buck.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
20. Re:Sigh... by joocemann · 2009-06-01 15:25 · Score: 1
  
  VS mode only involved the first 2 campaigns up until about a month ago... Not being able to use half of the game content in the best part of the game definitely renders those maps unusable.
  Furthermore, the level of bugs on release, and up until about March, was completely ridiculous.. .not to mention the horrible and buggy lobby/server system that the game forces you to use.
21. Re:Sigh... by joocemann · 2009-06-01 15:34 · Score: 1
  
  We're not talking about TF2 at all, and if you're talking about L4D you must be speaking from your own limited experience.
  The game has massive issues in the multiplayer department even to date, let alone in the past when it was much worse. The servers dump like crazy, or just freeze up on mapchange --- the last 2 campaigns were not even made available for VS mode until about a month ago. And the lobby system being a complete discombopulation of garbage that will often not even let new joiners in ---- not because of some network flaw, but simply because its buggy.
  If you don't know about the bugs in L4D and how bad they were up until about a month ago, you simply have very little experience to speak from --- or maybe your'e talking about console. Put it this way, my clan has had chronic issues getting a regular public server to last a whole campaign. Competitive matches? Forget it. The game will dump at least once mid-match.
  it is a great and fun game, no doubt. But I am sick of being treated like a beta tester by nearly every US game developer out there. BF2 was the same way -- great game, but full of bugs and problems that took years to patch and even now many still exist!
  Just because you don't know something, doesn't make it fail/false. You should use google and see the thousands of other people out there that would prove you wrong.
22. Re:Sigh... by BikeHelmet · 2009-06-01 15:57 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Left4Dead, polished a bit more, is perfect as is.
  I don't care about melee weps, beyond this: I want melee to work when a zombie is stuck in a wall or the floor.
  Nothing sucks more than a zombie hiding under a table, knawing on your leg, taking you from 70 to 20 health in a few seconds. Worse yet, the table interferes with projectile angles, so shooting the zombie is difficult(not just point and click), on top of meleeing it being impossible.
  Oh, and those trash cans. Seriously. It's not proper that a trash can rolling up against my leg completely immobilizes me and prevents me from jumping. If I press forward, and a trash can is trying to roll me to the left, I should move forward; not sit there stuttering while the trash can passes through my legs, then once it has passed through I can proceed.
  Better AI? That sounds great, but the zombies were already plenty smart(or stupid; depends how you want to look at it). Special infected AI was pretty weak, but totally acceptable in singleplayer and co-op. Not so good if your allies leave in a versus match, so you're stuck with the AI...
  The bots though? Damn they're stupid. Either give me some commands that they respond to("Come here", "Get in the corner", "Melee the zombies back while I shoot.") or make them smarter than bricks. Though to be fair, it's not the engine's fault. I know someone that wrote a modified AI script(tweaks known and hidden cvars for singleplayer and local hosting), and it really was impressive what the bots could do; they hide in closets, cover each other very well; usually one player crouches and melees while the others shoot over his shoulder. They don't waste medkits when they hit 49 health, but they always make sure one player is in the green if possible. Oh yeah, and they almost never get caught by tanks; they're good enough to beat expert mode with an all-bot team!
  But that just proves that the engine is already solid/perfect; the game just needs more polish...
  One last note - I'm sad they're implementing chainsaws. I'd be happier if they had unworking chainsaws that you could pick up, toss, but not actually use to cut things up. Every zombie game has chainsaws; it's so stereotypical. But I would laugh at finding chainsaws all over the place that can't be used, or have already been used. Maybe you can drop them on the zombies, or toss them down stairs/halls to kill/trip a bunch of zombies. ;)
  Or the chainsaw could be defensive. Carrying it around reduces damage taken from attacks from behind. Just do something original!
23. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 16:40 · Score: 0
  
  Tell me about it. I wish they'd drop L4D and the TF2 updates and concentrate on wrapping up Half Life 2: Episode 3. Anything else is just a distraction.
  "Hey, look over there! Money!!!!"
24. Re:Sigh... by sopssa · 2009-06-01 16:54 · Score: 1
  
  For most of the part it has worked great for me. Only problem I sometimes have is that when I try to connect to a server it sometimes says its already full. Other than that I have nothing to complain about. And I do know what I'm talking about, I play l4d maybe 10-15h a week. Not with clans, but just for the fun of it.
25. Re:Sigh... by interkin3tic · 2009-06-01 18:06 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I'm assuming they have different teams for different games, and I'm equally sure the half-life team is, in fact, concentrating on wrapping up the half life 2 series.
  Plus, in my opinion, TF2 outshines HL2 and the episodes, even though they were amazing themselves.
26. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 18:54 · Score: 0
  
  Am I the only one who *doesn't* enjoy L4D?
27. Re:Sigh... by shutdown+-p+now · 2009-06-01 19:16 · Score: 1
  
  Who cares? It's still fun regardless (and was even before the recent major update)! Which, I must add, seems to be a rare exception among game releases nowadays.
28. Re:Sigh... by sopssa · 2009-06-01 19:42 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  So? Its not like any games are released without bugs, and valve fixed that really quickly. Now try again.
29. Re:Sigh... by GrimDanFango · 2009-06-01 20:22 · Score: 1
  
  I too have mixed feelings about a sequel, particularly so soon. I'm a big fan of the first game, and agree with your comments on the chainsaws etc. Perhaps a half-way house where they work for a certain amount of time then stop (assuming they're powered by petrol, and would clog up with overuse), at which point you can lob it at the zombies. A further adaption of the Survival mode would be/have been good too, where you can lay traps similar to in the original Half Life 2 against the zombies, with shelves or barrels lined up to drop if you shoot what's supporting them, to really make good use of the great physics engine that the game has. Some people had critisized the frying pan addition, but in all fairness, I'd use anything I could get my hands on to increase the distance between myself and The Horde, be it a frying pan, chair, broom handle etc, but they could do it so the heaver the object, the more damage it gives, but the longer the time between swings due to getting tired.
30. Re:Sigh... by fractoid · 2009-06-01 21:08 · Score: 1
  
  Have you ever used a chainsaw in real life, and spent 20 minutes trying to start the damn thing? On the odd occasion that mine gets flooded or whatever and refuses to start, I find myself imagining zombie hordes lurching towards me as I repeatedly and futilely yank the pull starter. It'd be cool if that made its way into a game.
  
  --
  Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
31. Re:Sigh... by ensignyu · 2009-06-01 21:09 · Score: 1
  
  The most annoying thing about bots in versus is that they pretty much refuse to help get a special infected off you until you've already lost most of your internal organs. They stand right next to you and watch you squirm for about 5-15 seconds.
  That's got to be more than just stupidity. I think there's just some variable somewhere to make them completely ineffective at saving people.
32. Re:Sigh... by BikeHelmet · 2009-06-01 22:03 · Score: 1
  
  They have an unusually low melee limit, for one thing, so they hardly ever melee more than a couple times per minute.
  His bots do prioritize saving people. Since they have almost perfect aim, they usually shoot hunters out of the air, and smokers before the pull takes effect. On the off chance you got pounced or pulled, they'll shoot it off near instantly, unless they're mobbed or busy with a tank. (unlikely)
  They're even better if you enable friendly fire. Then they basically never miss the undead, and hardly ever get hit by them - but they hit each other way too much to last through an expert game.
  It's all variables. The AI could be good, but it's been tweaked not to be.
33. Re:Sigh... by bluesatin · 2009-06-01 22:38 · Score: 1
  
  The match making system is also still terrible for a quite a large percentage of the player base.
  
  They finally fixed it so that players can join my lobbies, but it still can't find a dedicated server when I want to start the game. Bear in mind that I have 15 empty servers between my different steam groups, and I could easily just go into my history and join a server myself in about 10 seconds flat.
  
  Oh and they broke the 'sv_search_key' functionality, that would allow you to find a server with a specific tag, so if you had your own dedicated you could join it from a lobby.
  
  And then there's the annoying fact that once you're in-game, people will leave, and servers either have the spot taken instantly or will never have a single person join for the whole game; consistency would be nice.
  
  The match making system was a nice idea, but whoever implemented needs slapping with it's current usefulness.
34. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 23:08 · Score: 0
  
  Jesus Christ. Will people get over this fucking sense of entitlement. It's a game, you pay small amount of money, get large amount of entertainment. Maybe it's not perfect. STOP FUCKING WHINING!
35. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 00:36 · Score: 0
  
  From what I've seen, only a few game companies (namely japanese ones) have the gumption to release a truly viable product.
  Ok then, if thats true, it should be easy for you to name one.
  Just name one game that was released without any bugs. Cause I've never seen one, even the cheapy card games that come free with shit containt bugs.
  We just need the name of one to prove your point.
36. Re:Sigh... by LBU.Zorro · 2009-06-02 00:46 · Score: 1
  
  I've been playing L4D since shortly after it came out...
  I've not noticed the bugs you're talking about. Nor have any of the people I play with..
  I presume you're talking about the PC version, since you mention the console as working... And yet, I play the PC version.
  Not meaning to evangalise the game, the lobby can be annoying.. But to refute a few things:
  Not having a mode for a map, is not a bug. You might not like it, but it's stupid to call it a bug.
  I admit to not worrying about the servers - I used them a few times but once they shut down midway through an expert campaign doing well I just host games with my friends myself. I've not yet had a single crash from the game.
  Playing versus I must have just been lucky, having used the sponsored servers without a problem.
  The worst bugs I've seen have been a couple of times our tank didn't appear in versus and sometimes when starting the level some characters levitate, the odd zombie stuck in a wall... That's pretty much it.
  If you've had rubbish servers, that's a problem, but since if you host the servers yourself it's not an issue it would seem to imply that it's potentially a hardware, internet connection etc issue.. If you connect to some guys machine and he shuts it down that's the end of the server.
  And finally you've barely given any examples, I mean servers dumping and freezing up, unless you control the hardware it's wrong to entirely blame the software. Sounds more like you're just trolling rather than having actual specific issues.
  If your clan is having issues with matches and servers, sort out your own server, it solves the issue being reliant on random servers that might get switched off, or crash, or pause etc.
  Back to the lobby, I'd much prefer a list of games, and some controls, since you can't stop anyone on your friends list joining even with local servers. And joining blind isn't my favourite option but it works well enough for a random game, other than that I mostly use invites..
  The main problem with the lobby function is the 'game is already full' race condition that occurs.. It's not exactly a bug but it isn't great design.
  Z.
  P.S. What's with plain old text ripping out newlines in the preview (and possibly submitted comment)?
37. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 01:27 · Score: 0
  
  Just name one game that was released without any bugs.
  Tetris
38. Re:Sigh... by flitty · 2009-06-02 01:28 · Score: 1
  
  The servers dump like crazy, or just freeze up on mapchange ---
  
  The only time i've been dumped from a game is from bad servers. One highly modded server (apparently with low ping from my house) would go through the first level of an episode, and then flip to a different campaign and freeze the game up for everyone. It was always the same clan's server (some clan with a penguin with a bazooka for a logo). So, if i ever get dumped to that server, i immediately quit out so I don't have to deal with it.
  
  Sometimes trying to connect to a server gives me a "server full" warning, while annoying, never broke my game. Then there are the minor issues, mostly which have been fixed, like bad "score" calculations at the end of the rounds, strange witch behavior... Every other issue i've had was Steam related (servers being down, no valid login error, etc).
  
  --
  Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
39. Re:Sigh... by flitty · 2009-06-02 01:40 · Score: 1
  
  I am of two minds about the quickness of this sequel. For one, i'm still enjoying the crap out of L4D. All the new additions have kept the game fresh and fun, even 6+ months later, which is surprising for a game with only 20 maps. Having 20-25 new maps (or 4-5 new "movies") through a DLC would be nice to expand L4D, but then comes my other thought - what would that cost? And that's a pretty major content dump, doubling the size of a game in DLC. Might as well have an upgraded AI director and a new "team" to play with. While something of a discount would be appreciated for those of us who feel this update is too 'soon', I doubt it will happen.
  
  Valve probably built new maps, decided the content was too much for DLC, and decided to go with a full blown sequel so that those who missed the train the first time can join in. Also, when a game like this is built on multiplayer support, if your playerbase dies down, the game is no longer good.
  
  Now, if valve made L4d2 backwards compatable, in a sense, allowing those who own L4D to get into games and use the L4D2 lobby to play the original maps, then this wouldn't be a big deal, but I haven't heard any plans to do so.
  
  --
  Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
40. Re:Sigh... by BertieBaggio · 2009-06-02 02:39 · Score: 1
  
  That AI script / tweak sounds really good - do you have a link for it?
  
  --
  If all you have is a grenade, pretty soon every problem looks like a foxhole -- MightyYar
41. Re:Sigh... by JCSoRocks · 2009-06-02 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  I agree 100%. I didn't realize they'd broken sv_search_key but that would explain why it hasn't worked for me in ages. I always just figured the servers I was trying to connect to were always just full... I should have known better.
  
  The server issues have really ruined the game for me. It's truly great fun when you can get everything to work... but it's incredibly frustrating sitting in the lobby for literally 15 minutes trying to find a server. Then you finally get to one and everyone's ping is 300 (my friends and I are usually reasonably close together geographically and we're all in the US). Then you repeat the process all over again trying to find a server that doesn't have a terrible ping.
  
  Sadly, none of this was an issue when the game was first released because you could easily host your own games. Typical comcast cable is plenty fast to support a 4 person L4D campaign (I even had some luck with versus). But then they changed it so that you couldn't do that unless you were on a LAN. When they made that change I stopped playing for a month. I just couldn't handle the problems with sitting in the lobby, servers crashing half-way through a campaign, and connecting to servers with ridiculous settings.
  
  I'm really hoping they fix some of this crap for 2.
  
  --
  You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
42. Re:Sigh... by JCSoRocks · 2009-06-02 03:51 · Score: 1
  
  P.S. What's with plain old text ripping out newlines in the preview (and possibly submitted comment)?
  All posts are HTML. You've got to use HTML formatting. Welcome to slashdot. :P
  
  --
  You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
43. Re:Sigh... by bin4ry · 2009-06-02 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  Um, I dont know what your doing wrong but I host listen servers to play with my friends almost every day. I have the fastest connection of us four, comcast "ultra" 30/7 service (22/5 actual) and have no problem hosting 8 player versus with pings all under 100.
44. Re:Sigh... by JCSoRocks · 2009-06-02 06:15 · Score: 1
  
  They released an update back around November or December that changed it so that anytime I tried to do that I would get an error from the game itself. You've encouraged me to give it a second look though... maybe it was just a bug and they've fixed it.
  
  --
  You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
45. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 07:08 · Score: 0
  
  yeah dood, my old computer was the same thing, i upgrade to dual core e8400, 2 x ati 4870, 4 gigs of ram it runs new games like a dream. just save a grand or so and you'll be fine.
  i couldnt deal running w/ so fps for dod:s and cs:s
  dont forget Diablo 3 and SC 2
46. Re:Sigh... by BikeHelmet · 2009-06-02 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  I'll ask him if it's okay to distribute it. Last I heard, he wasn't done with it yet - but now he's working on L4D maps, so maybe he won't mind.
47. Re:Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-03 08:58 · Score: 0
  
  Crowbar please!
48. Re:Sigh... by LBU.Zorro · 2009-06-08 00:29 · Score: 1
  
  All posts are HTML. You've got to use HTML formatting. Welcome to slashdot. :P
  Nah, I was using Plain Old Text in the options, and oddly enough the newlines didn't appear in gthe preview but did in the actual submit... Not exactly WYSIWYG but it'll do.
  Z.
In VALVe time... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:03 · Score: 1, Funny

In VALVe time, this will be 2013?
What about HL2 Episode 3? by letsief · 2009-06-01 12:04 · Score: 5, Insightful

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing Left 4 Dead, but I was really hoping we'd finally get an update on Half Life 2: Episode 3. Left 4 Dead gets a sequel after one year, but we have to wait three years (presumably) for Episode 3?
1. Re:What about HL2 Episode 3? by Zeussy · 2009-06-01 12:08 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  remember that Left 4 Dead that made by Turtle Rock Studios or now Valve South. Valve North have been quite quiet, apart from the TF2 updates.
  
  --
  Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
2. Re:What about HL2 Episode 3? by HisOmniscience · 2009-06-01 12:15 · Score: 1
  
  It's only the first day of E3. Patience.
3. Re:What about HL2 Episode 3? by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 13:02 · Score: 1
  
  A number of Valve North staffers work on L4D.
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
4. Re:What about HL2 Episode 3? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 14:07 · Score: 0
  
  Hey we know Gabe's fat but there's no need to be cruel.
5. Re:What about HL2 Episode 3? by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 14:15 · Score: 1
  
  Well, they do say he modeled the Boomer.
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
6. Re:What about HL2 Episode 3? by interkin3tic · 2009-06-01 18:15 · Score: 1
  
  Half life 2: 2004
  episode 1: 2006
  Episode 2: 2007
  Granted, it's been almost 2 years since ep2, but it also seems to me that most of the game in L4D is the multiplayer aspect, there's less in the way of plot, cutscenes, and maybe level area, though I'm not sure. Also seems like zombies might be easier to program than enemies who are supposed to be thinking. I have absolutely no experience on videogame making, but it seems like the half life episodes would naturally take longer than the L4D games.
7. Re:What about HL2 Episode 3? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 18:57 · Score: 0
  
  The difference is that Episode 2 was priced at about $16 on release, whereas Left 4 Dead 2 (Read: Not Left 4 Dead: Episode One) will have an incremental improvement (just like the Episodes) for a price that seems to be the standard $50.
8. Re:What about HL2 Episode 3? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 00:41 · Score: 0
  
  Because L4D allows four play co-op, because L4D can last only 30 minutes or 2 hours depending, and it's super easy to get family and friends to play a round. It's a blast to play with no real tasks other than to survive, and possibly do so in such a way to earn achievements. Lets face it Half Life 2 needs the user to take a week off work to get into otherwise you'll start to dull on what tasks need to be done in order to continue playing. I'll take L4D thanks. I am especially happy since they announced this on my b-day it was like a gift of knowledge that i'll get to have even more fun on a new game engine with better interactions, more challenges, and different maps. Hell yah.
9. Re:What about HL2 Episode 3? by Twanfox · 2009-06-02 05:57 · Score: 1
  
  Source, please. I've tried reading up on what's coming for this game and I have yet to find official word whether or not this is an incremental or complete change from the original.
can't wait to see the add by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:05 · Score: 1, Funny

"Now with two times more zombies!"
1. Re:can't wait to see the add by Goldberg's+Pants · 2009-06-01 14:05 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  "This time we actually released a full game. HAHA to all you suckers that bought the first one. Wankers."
  It sucks when the sports titles do it at but at least there is some justification there.
Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

So once again PC owners get screwed by the shitty Xbox 360 and its 7gig disc format and outdated graphics hardware.
PC gamers are who made Valve what they are today.
Make a real PC game Valve, then figure out what you have to do or hire to downgrade it for the stupid little Xbox.
1. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by grapeape · 2009-06-01 12:13 · Score: 0
  
  That might be a valid argument if they were developed by the same team, but the first one was developed on the PC by the Valve aquired Turtle Rock studios and by Certain Affinity on the 360.
2. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:16 · Score: 0
  
  That is patently false.
3. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  Not true. A lot of Valve North people ended up working on Left 4 Dead (I remember a couple of devs I was in contact with being pulled off of fixing ATI-related bugs to be put onto L4D for release).
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
4. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by FrostDust · 2009-06-01 13:07 · Score: 1
  
  So, what do you find lacking from L4D then? Just because the game exists on the 360 it doesn't necessitate the PC version be worse, or that a lack of such guarantees it would be better.
5. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by TinBromide · 2009-06-01 13:26 · Score: 1
  
  I like it, my computer upgrades last longer. I don't want to have to sink $1000 every year into computer upgrades, instead, I can upgrade at about the midpoint of the console cycles and play everything but system-rapers designed to keep people like you happy...
  
  --
  Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
6. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 13:29 · Score: 0
  
  Having gamed on both for a long time - I do find that games developed for the console do tend to make linear on rail levels,
  This is clearly shown in the Call of Duty series whilst it was linear in the story plot the levels on the first one on the PC werent so tightly scripted for efficent loading as running through trenches you get in the second one etc and consoles.
7. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by morari · 2009-06-01 14:09 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I think the fact that we're getting a "sequel" instead of an expansion pack goes to show that console versions screw everyone over.
  
  --
  "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
8. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by Martin+Blank · 2009-06-01 14:17 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  That was exactly my thought. Some changes in the engine, addition of new special infected, and some new characters would in the past have been simply some new DLC. Microsoft's policies limiting unpaid DLC to a tiny amount over the life of the game had to have factored into this.
  
  --
  You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
9. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by n3r0.m4dski11z · 2009-06-01 17:23 · Score: 0
  
  did you watch the demos and come to that conclusion? if so why?
  your statement says nothing. what do you want, a new engine?
  
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  -
10. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by interkin3tic · 2009-06-01 18:25 · Score: 1
  
  PC gamers are who made Valve what they are today.
  One way of looking at it is they're being loyal to all their customers by not making them spend money on upgrades?
  (I doubt that viewpoint will be very popular on /. though.)
  PC gamers are what made valve? Bah. Money spent on the 360 version was just as real as the money spent on the PC version, and valve's fans who play on machines you hate for some reason are just as much fans as those who game on platform b. Valve has earned my respect, I trust they aren't just doing this to make money, and instead are doing this to try to deliver good games to the most number of people.
  Anyway, don't take pride in your gaming machine of choice, that reeks of having nothing else in your life to take pride in.
11. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by flitty · 2009-06-02 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  5 new movies, a new ai director, 4 new characters with new dialogue, new weapons... Your DLC is larger than the original game.
  
  --
  Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
12. Re:Xbox 360? Sigh...Once Again Gimped by elrous0 · 2009-06-02 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  If it's any consolation, the exact opposite is happening with the Knights of the Old Republic franchise. The Xbox *made* KOTOR, with consoles sales at double what the PC sales were. And how do they repay us? By making the new "The Old Republic" PC-only. Thanks Bioware.
  
  --
  SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Doobian+Coedifier · 2009-06-01 12:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

I recently gave up on L4D because Valve has broken the ability to play Versus mode on advanced difficulty (With our own dedicated server, not one of their public ones). Normal difficulty just isn't very much fun. They have to fix this in L4D before I would even *consider* buying L4D2. Melee cooldown also pissed me off quite a bit, it's gotta be off for Advanced. And while I'm ranting, the lobby system sucks.
1. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Chabo · 2009-06-01 12:36 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  I recently gave up on L4D because Valve has broken the ability to play Versus mode on advanced difficulty
  IIRC, wasn't that changed while the game was still in beta? Personally, I think that it's better this way anyway, because in Versus mode the main challenge is supposed to be the Special Infected (controlled by players) anyway, not the Horde. If you want a tougher Versus game, a tight-knit team of opponents should suffice.
  
  Melee cooldown also pissed me off quite a bit, it's gotta be off for Advanced.
  It makes it so you can't just melee-spam your way through a mob of horde. As a player I agree it's annoying, but it's annoying in the same way that being out of breath while you're running is annoying. I can see why they did it; it makes it so you have to shoot your way through a mob, or even better for the Teamplay aspect of the game, get teammates to kill the Horde that's mobbing you at the moment.
  
  And while I'm ranting, the lobby system sucks.
  It doesn't work perfectly, but I can see why they wanted it that way; you can either join a random game with random strangers, or you can find a group of friends to play with. Left 4 Dead isn't the type of game where you want a traditional game-server model, which is best for Deathmatch and CTF, or similar styles derived from those. Instead, you want everyone to start at the same time, like in an RTS. A lobby is the best model for that.
  
  --
  Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
2. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 12:40 · Score: 1
  
  They're rolling out the new matchmaker system in the next few days, I heard.
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
3. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Doobian+Coedifier · 2009-06-01 13:15 · Score: 1
  
  I recently gave up on L4D because Valve has broken the ability to play Versus mode on advanced difficulty
  IIRC, wasn't that changed while the game was still in beta? Personally, I think that it's better this way anyway, because in Versus mode the main challenge is supposed to be the Special Infected (controlled by players) anyway, not the Horde. If you want a tougher Versus game, a tight-knit team of opponents should suffice.
  They brought Advanced Versus back after they broke it the first time, it broke most recently with the update that gave us Survival mode. It's not just the quantity of commons, but increased damage from everything, including FF and fire, that made it more challenging.
  
  Melee cooldown also pissed me off quite a bit, it's gotta be off for Advanced.
  It makes it so you can't just melee-spam your way through a mob of horde. As a player I agree it's annoying, but it's annoying in the same way that being out of breath while you're running is annoying. I can see why they did it; it makes it so you have to shoot your way through a mob, or even better for the Teamplay aspect of the game, get teammates to kill the Horde that's mobbing you at the moment.
  Agreed, for normal difficulty, which is all valve seems to care about.
  
  And while I'm ranting, the lobby system sucks.
  It doesn't work perfectly, but I can see why they wanted it that way; you can either join a random game with random strangers, or you can find a group of friends to play with. Left 4 Dead isn't the type of game where you want a traditional game-server model, which is best for Deathmatch and CTF, or similar styles derived from those. Instead, you want everyone to start at the same time, like in an RTS. A lobby is the best model for that.
  I like the idea, but it's really really buggy.
4. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Mr2001 · 2009-06-01 15:12 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  It doesn't work perfectly, but I can see why they wanted it that way; you can either join a random game with random strangers, or you can find a group of friends to play with.
  It's a nice idea, but Halo 2 did it right, years ago. It's disappointing that Valve's implementation of basically the same idea is so bad.
  In Halo, you can join a party with your friends, and then when you start a game, the system matches you up with enough players to fill the game. If you have 4 people in your party and you want an 8 player game, you might get matched up with another 4 person party, or two 2 person parties, or a 3 person party and an individual, etc. -- the system knows who's looking for a game and tries to match groups of similar sizes and skill levels.
  Left 4 Dead, on the other hand, has no group matchmaking. If you want to play an 8 player versus game with three friends, you have to start a lobby with them, then wait for 4 more individuals to randomly join.
  That sucks for you because it might take a long time, which is partly because people who join early like to leave if the lobby doesn't fill up quickly enough. And that's if it works at all: when I start a friends-only lobby and then switch it to public to fill it up, very often I don't get any more players no matter how long I wait.
  It also sucks for the other players because they're playing with strangers (who might be unskilled, uncooperative, or have no mic) while you're playing with the same friends you always play with. There's currently no way to match your team up against another team; it's always a team vs. a bunch of random individuals.
  
  --
  Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
5. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Fallingcow · 2009-06-01 18:47 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed, for normal difficulty, which is all valve seems to care about.
  It's funny--they've put all this effort in to fixing the balance in versus, when just giving us a choice between Normal and Advanced settings would have pretty much fixed it.
  Tank too easy? Play advanced. Boomer completely fucking worthless against a team that's got fewer than 3 n00bs? Play advanced. Melee too powerful? Play advanced.
  At least half of their fixes would have been unnecessary if they'd allowed at those two difficulty settings as options, IMO.
  I still remember when you'd get dumped in to an Expert one every now and then. Hell, those were my favorites--I don't play the game to crush the other team or be crushed by them for 5 maps, I play it for frantic, desperate chaos and sudden changes of fortune, which is exactly what expert-setting versus guaranteed. I miss it. Advanced would at least be closer to that.
  Hell, they say in the commentary that they wanted it to be rare for the survivors to make it to the safe room in versus. It was supposed to be a huge struggle. Give us back higher difficulty settings in versus, Valve! As it is, it's usually 5 maps of one team or the other being stomped. I have to deliberately screw around and do stupid things (first one to the safe room wins! No intentional FF, grenades are OK, GO! *opens door*) just to keep it interesting and fun (if I'm on the better team, that is). In probably 4/5 of all (public, random) games you know who's going to win by half way through the third map. It sucks--no wonder people "rage" quit.
6. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 19:21 · Score: 0
  
  Advanced difficulty for Versus WAS nice. Although, you can always play Death Toll if you feel the game is too easy for survivors.
  Bash nerf was the best thing to happen to L4D, since now survs actually have do something other than sit in a closet and spam
  bash all the time. If only they would block the invulnerability closets entirely, I'd be a happier player.
  And yes, the lobby system is the worst failure I've seen in a long, long time. Actually, it IS the worst lobby system I've
  seen for networked games. Only thing that comes even close to how bad L4D lobby system is, was the MOO2 turn end lobby
  which crashed every half an hour or so. Then again, MOO2 is 12 years older than L4D, which IMO allows it some glitches in networking.
7. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 23:58 · Score: 0
  
  What's this versus mode you speak of? I'm too busy kicking zombie butt side-by-side with my friends and loving the hell out of it.
8. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Sobrique · 2009-06-02 01:07 · Score: 1
  
  I usually know who's going to win based on the first stage. It's quite obvious which teams are cohesive and effective, and which ones aren't.
  But then I find I actaully still quite enjoy being on the losing side. I don't ragequit when my team is losing, because I'm still having fun playing.
9. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 01:20 · Score: 0
  
  Please mod parent up. My single biggest complaint with L4D is the match-making system. Parent nails it.
  Oh, and the melee cooldown sucks balls.
10. Re:stopped playing because valve keeps nerfing by Mr2001 · 2009-06-02 10:40 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, and the melee cooldown sucks balls.
  I don't know if it's the best solution, but I do think something had to be done to fix the situation where the survivors just hide in a corner during a crescendo, punching over and over. It's a strategy that requires basically no sophistication from the survivors (other than following each other to the same corner), while the infected have to be a lot more sophisticated to break it -- the hunter, boomer, and smoker are all useless against it individually.
  
  --
  Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Title by yoyhed · 2009-06-01 12:11 · Score: 5, Funny

Left 4 Dead 2? What about Left 8 Dead?

--
WHO NEEDS SHIFT WHEN YOU HAVE CAPSLOCK/ DAMN1
1. Re:Title by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:34 · Score: 0
  
  What about 2Left4Dead?
2. Re:Title by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:42 · Score: 0
  
  The other 4 didn't make it. We lost them in the great propane hoarding accident of '08
3. Re:Title by kkrajewski · 2009-06-01 12:46 · Score: 1
  
  Win. But at least L4D2 sounds like a Star Wars character.
4. Re:Title by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:57 · Score: 0
  
  How about "Left 4 Dead 2 Night"?
5. Re:Title by JoeBar · 2009-06-01 17:31 · Score: 1
  
  LOL
6. Re:Title by fractoid · 2009-06-01 21:20 · Score: 1
  
  Oh god, next we'll have Left 4 Dead: Tokyo Gibs.
  
  --
  Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
7. Re:Title by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 22:57 · Score: 0
  
  We h8 zombies
8. Re:Title by RabidBob · 2009-06-01 23:10 · Score: 1
  
  Given how difficult it is to get 3 other people to play in a sensible and co-ordinated manner I'd not want to try teams with 8 people on them, it'd be a bloody nightmare.
9. Re:Title by Deltaspectre · 2009-06-02 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  Followed by Left Dead
  
  --
  My UID is prime... is yours?
10. Re:Title by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 03:04 · Score: 0
  
  Don't you mean Left 5 Dead?
11. Re:Title by sesshomaru · 2009-06-02 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  You can have up to 6 players in Killing Floor .
  Ok, so it isn't 8....
  
  --
  "MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
12. Re:Title by yoyhed · 2009-06-02 13:37 · Score: 1
  
  I thought about that after posting, but the reason I said Left 8 Dead is I figured you could multiply the 4 and 2.. but looking at it like Left(4)Dead(2) I suppose it should be titled "8(Left)(Dead)".
  
  --
  WHO NEEDS SHIFT WHEN YOU HAVE CAPSLOCK/ DAMN1
Humbug by Shrubbman · 2009-06-01 12:13 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Bah, bring on the REAL gaming news of the day, MONKEY ISLAND!!!
Re:MODERATORS!!! READ THIS. It is of great importa by jgtg32a · 2009-06-01 12:22 · Score: 3, Funny

Give me mod points
This sucks by Caboosian · 2009-06-01 12:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

What the hell happened to the continued post-release support of L4D? TF2's community has been growing steadily thanks to the fantastic updates being constantly released for it - yet L4D's map editor isn't even out yet? Simply put, this is a grab for money - they're cutting the legs out from under L4D, and releasing what quite simply should be free updates. I mean, honestly, this isn't even that much new content - the gameplay is exactly the same, the graphics are just barely better, and the setting, well, kind of sucks.

As far as I'm concerned, Valve just got downgraded from premium status in my book. This game is a mistake.
1. Re:This sucks by soupforare · 2009-06-01 12:35 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. Didn't they announce a map editor/sdk for L4D before launch? Where the hell is that?
  
  --
  --- Do you believe in the day?
2. Re:This sucks by kusanagi374 · 2009-06-01 12:37 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Basically Valve broke their promise from last year and is now officially a greedy developer. If they intended to have Left4Dead be a technology preview all along, they should've gone and called this paid beta-testing as the Prologue version, like Gran Turismo 5.
  "Valve intends to support hotly anticipated zombie survival shooter Left 4 Dead post-release with new characters, new maps, new achievements and new weapons in order to grow the community, Gabe Newell has revealed.
  Speaking to VideoGamer.com at Leipzig Games Convention, the Valve co-founder and managing director said the developer intended to follow a similar downloadable content policy as it has with Team Fortress 2.
  Newell said that Valve's support of the game post-launch will be essential for growing the community.
  He said: "One of the things that we're doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service. So if you look at Team Fortress 2, one of things that's really helped grow the community is the continuous updates, where we release new maps, new character classes, new unlockables, new weapons. And we tell the stories about the characters, like the meet the sniper, or meet the sandwich. And that ongoing delivery of content really seems to grow the community."
  
  source: http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/left_4_dead/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html
3. Re:This sucks by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 12:37 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed (although the L4D SDK is out--it's a "beta", but it works fine). I'm hoping that this ends up being an expansion pack (at expansion pack prices) rather than a full new game.
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
4. Re:This sucks by Chabo · 2009-06-01 12:41 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It was released in beta a couple weeks ago. If you own the game, go to the "Tools" tab in Steam, and it should be there. In another few weeks, they said they'll be releasing the ability for the game to handle 3rd-party maps/campaigns.
  
  --
  Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
5. Re:This sucks by $1uck · 2009-06-01 12:42 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I cannot disagree with you more. Seriously, for how much time I've played the game and how much enjoyment I've received from the game I have gotten my money's worth multiple times. The article I read specifically states that this does not mean that support for l4d is going away. It also stated that it is a possibility that l4d would be included with l4d2. Something else I'm completely fine with, I would simply give my copy of l4d away to someone who was unsure if they wanted to buy the game.
  Looks to be plenty of new content, 5 campaigns, new infected, new behaviors from old special infected, melee weapons, expanded alteration game play driven by the ai (maps will vary from play to play).
  If you think it sucks don't buy the game. I will gladly shell out the money when the game is released (fully expecting it to sell for half the price 6 months later).
6. Re:This sucks by PhrostyMcByte · 2009-06-01 12:45 · Score: 1
  
  I agree -- L4D has still not reached what I consider to be $50 worth of content. Especially if you compare it to other games like Half-Life 2 and the Orange Box, both of which went for $50.
  And after all this time it is still buggy, full of map exploits, and incredibly difficult to get a good game going unless you plan one out with 8 friends. It seemed to have been left in the dust, and I guess now we all know why.
  Given these issues, I'm really not feeling like paying for a L4D 2. Valve was the only game studio that I wasn't afraid to preorder games from. Every one of their games had been gold, until now. I'd be curious to see what changed to make them like this.
7. Re:This sucks by Zathain+Sicarius · 2009-06-01 12:50 · Score: 1
  
  Its a win-lose situation. Valve is cutting the legs out from under their franchise, but you can take out that frustration by cutting the legs off of zombies with a chainsaw.
8. Re:This sucks by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:54 · Score: 0
  
  Then allow me to sell you a somewhat decent bridge where I make it sound like the worlds best bridge.
  L4D has addictive gameplay, and little substance. The only reason it's stayed alive so long is because of the gameplay. L4D2 should be a free update to L4D. At this point, the OP is correct, it's clear they're treating L4D as a tech demo. That's bullshit no matter which way you smell it.
9. Re:This sucks by TinBromide · 2009-06-01 13:20 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  This is what happened to Battlefield 2. EA killed their BF community by splitting it between the old bf2 players and the new bf2142 people. When BF2142 came out, some BF2 people bought it, some people tried to stay with BF2, but BF2142 wasn't worth the "upgrade" cost over BF2 so the veterans continued to play, but without the influx of new people, the community is still dieing a slow death. Right before bf2142 was announced, BF2 still sold for $50USD. After the announcement? The price dropped dramatically. BF2 had a reign from June 2005-October 2006, in winter of 2006-2007, the community fizzled, hard.
  
  However, unlike valve, EA did an awesome job of the post-release upkeep with new maps, good patches, and an expansion. I'd rather see this as an expansion for l4d where they add new maps and weapons, or at least add the something back into l4d. In a multiplayer game, the value of the game lies in large part with the community, when you split players like this, you hurt the community, and the value of the game. If you release a new multiplayer "chapter" each year and tell people up front (like ut2k3, then ut2k4 or madden 200X) that there will be more on a yearly bases, no owners of the first installment take issue when a new game comes out the next year, but I'm thinking that some people may have bought l4d hoping for the same great post-release support that TF2 people currently enjoy where by now there might be a new campaign or two in addition to the survival mode. However, this announcement pretty much means that l4d1 will exist for all eternity pretty much as it is now with little UI tweaks and such that come about as a result of the work happening on l4d2 (like the matchmaking lobby update that someone mentioned above).
  
  Also, I think that releasing a sequel a year after a game is in bad taste. I like to pretend that whenever I walk around in public, companies don't see me only as a wad of walking disposable income to be swindled away.
  
  --
  Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
10. Re:This sucks by TinBromide · 2009-06-01 13:23 · Score: 1
  
  that it is a possibility that l4d would be included with l4d2
  If they had been watching TF2's post-game support, L4D2 would be included with l4d.
  
  --
  Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
11. Re:This sucks by artor3 · 2009-06-01 13:30 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed. I said many times that I'd be happy to spend $10 on a DLC for L4D that included a new "movie" plus some extra weapons/infected/etc... If they want to bundle five such packages into a single game, then I'll be happy to buy it.
12. Re:This sucks by icedcool · 2009-06-01 13:54 · Score: 1
  
  Thats what I was thinking... this seems weird for valve. I'm hoping that there is a ruse to this, or its that they have an expansion or something...
  
  --
  Most people aren't thought about after they're gone. "I wonder where Rob got the plutonium" is better than most get.
13. Re:This sucks by cowscows · 2009-06-01 13:56 · Score: 1
  
  While I'm hoping (and maybe even expecting) that Valve will offer some sort of discount to people who already own L4D, I think it's interesting to note that in general, a good video game is pretty damn cheap compared to the amount of entertainment that it can provide. If you spend 50 bucks on a game and get 25 hours of decent playtime out of it, then that works out to $2/hour. That compares very favorably to movies, concerts, sporting events, and even books (depending on how fast you read). And that's not to mention how quickly the prices of games tend to drop.
  In one sense, Valve has almost shot themselves in the foot with TF2, by creating a situation where some of their bigger fans almost demand hundreds of hours worth of playtime out of a game, and now years of free new content releases. It's interesting to see how quickly people get accustomed to freebies and then complain when the flow of goodies gets turned down.
  
  --
  One time I threw a brick at a duck.
14. Re:This sucks by The+End+Of+Days · 2009-06-01 13:57 · Score: 1
  
  Heaven forbid that gameplay makes a game popular.
15. Re:This sucks by Goldberg's+Pants · 2009-06-01 14:12 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Yep, this is a very uncool move from Valve. I mean look at the ton of content TF2 has gotten for free. Now L4D has had the one big update, and now the sequel is coming, which as it stands appears to be standalone.
  When the original game cost $50, Valve are taking the piss. Very VERY uncool. If Valve genuinely do throw this out as a full price sequel, I will never buy another Valve title again.
  They screwed my friends and I over once before with the bots for Counterstrike, removing them from CS 1.6 so they could sell them in Condition Zero after my friends and many others beta tested them, submitted bugs, and were led to believe they'd be released properly for CS. (Valve even went so far as to remove the "Bots Removed" info from the changelog for 72 hours before admitting they were going to be CZ only) and I eventually relented and picked up The Orange Box etc... Bought L4D back in February.
  Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
16. Re:This sucks by Goldberg's+Pants · 2009-06-01 14:19 · Score: 1
  
  Except you most likely CAN'T give away your existing copy as it's tied to your Steam account.
  And your final comment is ridiculous. "If you think it sucks, don't buy the game." Yeah, that's great if you somehow have a crystal ball and can see what a developer is going to do in the future with the title you bought. Looking at L4D a potential customer would have looked at TF2, which gets HUGE support, and look at Valve's history, which is lined with products that had years of support.
  If you think you've gotten your value, that's lovely and wonderful. However some of us aren't made of money, especially in todays financial climate, and have different criteria for what constitutes "good value". TF2, for example, is great value. Now THAT is a title that could have justifable sold for $50 with it's massive amount of post release updates.
  Had I known the game I was buying would essentially be mothballed a mere 8 months later, I'd have waited.
  If you think Valve are going to evenly support BOTH L4D titles, you are deluding yourself.
17. Re:This sucks by Goldberg's+Pants · 2009-06-01 14:22 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sorry, but no. Yes there may be exploits. However, online play is good, and I have good experiences more often than bad. No friends (never seem to be around at the same time), just random strangers. Yeah, there's douchebags. Every game has them. (Try racing GTR Evolution on a public server sometime.)
  I agree with the rest of what you said though. Orange Box was amazing value. Previous Valve titles have been too.
  As it stands right now, L4D appears to be a demo we all paid $50 for.
  I really hope in a few months we're all looking red faced and that Valve do the decent thing and make it an expansion at a decent price, discounted upgrade for existing customers, whatever. Really not getting that vibe though.
18. Re:This sucks by Spit · 2009-06-01 14:23 · Score: 1
  
  I still play L4D for at least 3-4 hours a week, it's a better way to meet people online than Uno.
  
  --
  POKE 36879,8
19. Re:This sucks by Spit · 2009-06-01 14:26 · Score: 1
  
  I shudder to think how much money I've spent on Galaga over the years...
  
  --
  POKE 36879,8
20. Re:This sucks by Goldberg's+Pants · 2009-06-01 14:29 · Score: 1
  
  Anyone who expected EA to be anything OTHER than money grabbing scum were deluding themselves.
  However Valve are held to a higher standard and, until today, that higher standard was justified.
  Ah well, the only way to vote is to vote with your wallet. Valve get moved onto the list of companies I refuse to support. EA is on that list. Valve will lose all future sales to me. Will it make any difference or change anything? Nope, because there'll be an endless line of suckers out there who pony up like the performing seals the industry has trained them to be.
  I, however, will be saving my money for a developer who sees me as a customer (Stardock for example) rather than some sort of financial bukkake slut.
21. Re:This sucks by ch1lly · 2009-06-01 14:32 · Score: 1
  
  If you have duplicate games you can grant them to other accounts as gifts.
22. Re:This sucks by $1uck · 2009-06-01 14:34 · Score: 1
  
  I bought the game for xbox (or actually I bought the xbox for this game and it has rekindled my interest in playing video games). I can give the game away if I want =)
23. Re:This sucks by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 15:32 · Score: 0
  
  Heaven forbid that gameplay makes a game popular.
  And is not gameplay the true substance of any game? A point the GP AC seems to have missed. Or are we supposed to enjoy games only for shiny graphics and large amounts of content that while appearing varied is actually repetitive?
24. Re:This sucks by genghisjahn · 2009-06-01 15:37 · Score: 1
  
  Do you shudder? Or do you feel yourself swell with pride. Be honest.
  
  --
  Sorry about the mess.
25. Re:This sucks by AbRASiON · 2009-06-01 16:18 · Score: 1
  
  I completely agree with your post, this is a ridiculous joke.
26. Re:This sucks by scubamage · 2009-06-01 17:27 · Score: 1
  
  Where in there does it say the updates would be free? I don't see anything about it. I'm inclined to think less "second game in series" and more "first expansion pack."
27. Re:This sucks by bonch · 2009-06-01 18:26 · Score: 1
  
  Huh? I have the Left 4 Dead Hammer editor open right now.
28. Re:This sucks by bonch · 2009-06-01 18:28 · Score: 1
  
  How does this make them "greedy?" If you don't want a sequel, don't buy it. This follows Valve's intent to release smaller content on a more frequent basis, such as with Episode 1, Portal, and so on. It's weird to read comments from people who are surprised at this announcement when Valve has been doing episodic content for the past five years.
29. Re:This sucks by drb_chimaera · 2009-06-01 18:43 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed - I picked up the game cheap as soon as it was released (think I paid £17 on a preorder from Amazon for it) some six months ago and since then have played 1-3 sessions a week on it of around 2-4 hours a time (usually 1 a week of about 3 hours). I've picked up more friends on Steam then I have at all before (like alot of other people I try to play with known people, but if we fill a slot with a random and (s)he seems cool I'll add them and play with them again).
  We generally play co-op campaigns on Expert, but occaisionally throw a little Vs or Survival into the mix
  I feel I have *more* than gotten my money's worth out of Left 4 Dead over the past six months, and I like the look of more or less all the changes - especially the 'multiple routes controlled by the AI' part. The one thing I hope is that the L4D campigns are available within L4D2 (whether you can import them from the first game or are just included by default) so its not necessary to move between the games for the different campaigns...
30. Re:This sucks by Fallingcow · 2009-06-01 18:56 · Score: 1
  
  I still can't figure out why they removed functionality from the game after release--namely, the ability to play versus at settings other than "normal".
  Sure, it was chosen on the server-side so it was effectively random to the player, but the proper response was to add a simple drop-down to let the user choose rather than taking the option away entirely.
  Call me crazy, but I much prefer the fast-paced, wild style of an expert-difficulty versus game to a longer, slower, usually one-sided normal one. I've gotten so sick of knowing which team's going to win by the end of the second map. Expert versus may be shit for competitive play (in fact, I'm sure it is) but it was so much fun! Isn't that the point?
31. Re:This sucks by shutdown+-p+now · 2009-06-01 19:21 · Score: 1
  
  L4D has addictive gameplay ...
  What else is needed?
  I've bought L4D for $50 last year. Like GP, I also feel that it was worth it many times over for me in terms of sheer enjoyment I've got out of it. I'm definitely looking forward to L4D2, even if it will be priced the same - Valve has demonstrated that they can design gameplay that captivates me, so I'm willing to cash out for more of that. I don't see anything wrong with that, either.
  If you feel that L4D isn't worth its money, then no-one forces you to buy it. If you feel that L4D2 won't be worth its money, then you can avoid buying it either.
32. Re:This sucks by i_b_don · 2009-06-01 20:03 · Score: 1
  
  Shhhhh... let a man bitch in peace without ruining his righteous-anger buzz.
  
  --
  all language nazi's will burne in heil!
33. Re:This sucks by Canazza · 2009-06-01 20:48 · Score: 1
  
  However, unlike valve, EA did an awesome job of the post-release upkeep with new maps, good patches, and an expansion
  The game hasn't even been released yet. How can you say "Unlike Valve"? Valve have had the best track record of any developer besides Blizzard for post-release updates.
  Sure, they've not done much post-sequel updates, but they've never had a sequel released this close to it's predecessor before. We don't know WHAT Valve will do with L4D once L4D2 comes out. This is uncharted waters for Valve, and the way they handle is is going to reflect on them as a Company in a big way. Ditch L4D and recieve the ire of long-time devotees. Keep updating it and wind up the same as BF2, or have a reduced-upgrade fee - ala UT2003/04 (Which would most likely be the best option imo)
  
  --
  It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
34. Re:This sucks by fractoid · 2009-06-01 21:21 · Score: 1
  
  I'm guessing it was more a "holy shit this is really really popular... MAKE MOAR!" than a "muahahah we shall sucker them into buying this game twice".
  
  --
  Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
35. Re:This sucks by anomnomnomymous · 2009-06-01 22:33 · Score: 1
  
  Insightful? I hope not for the missing mapeditor comment, as the mapeditor (along with some very comprehensive tutorials along with a nice Google Sketchup exporter) has been released a few weeks now.
  
  And even before that it was possible to make maps for L4D, by using the Hammer-editor with some slight adjustments.
  At least when you complaint, try to keep it valid...
  
  --
  When you shoot a mime, do you use a silencer?
36. Re:This sucks by relguj9 · 2009-06-02 01:42 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty much, this is the first good FPS game (to me) since BF2.
  
  Just gotta fix matchmaking! (plug)
37. Re:This sucks by flitty · 2009-06-02 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  Anyone who expected EA to be anything OTHER than money grabbing scum were deluding themselves.
  
  So, if being money grabbing scum prevents you from buying a game from someone, Do you actually BUY games anymore?
  
  On top of that, everyone knows Activision is the new EA anyway, with COD6 tonyhawk7 guitarhero5 Starcraft2(x3 if you want the "full" game)
  
  --
  Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
38. Re:This sucks by discord5 · 2009-06-02 02:46 · Score: 1
  
  If you think it sucks don't buy the game. I will gladly shell out the money when the game is released (fully expecting it to sell for half the price 6 months later).
  I don't think it sucks, I just think it's a quick grab for money. There's hardly been any updates to the game other than bugfixes, and I even though I've played this game quite a bit if you compare it to all the attention TF2 has been getting I'm a bit disappointed.
  I will probably be waiting for a long while until L4D2 gets a decent discount before I'll be buying, if I'm not distracted by something new and exciting by then. (Although by the looks of E3, I probably won't be)
39. Re:This sucks by mmalove · 2009-06-02 03:30 · Score: 1
  
  Unfortunately, this isn't always true with package deals. For example, Valve had a promo running for 9.99 for the complete orange box, but it contained the caveat that only the HL2 elements could be regifted. I would have paid it just for portal, but on principle think they're just being cheap bastards at that point. Would have liked to be able to regift the TF2 piece since I already own that.
  I'm disappointed with their decision to launch into l4d 2 so quickly - the original game is a blast, but with only 4 campaigns I would have assumed a 50 dollar title (now 40) would have enjoyed more expansion similar to TF2. Now it's pretty obvious with the sequel less than a year away that original l4d players have been flagshipped - sold a product on the promise of expasion, then left in the dust once the corporation has their money.
  
  --
  You can get 15 minutes of fame, but you can go down in history for infamy.
40. Re:This sucks by atomic-penguin · 2009-06-02 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  There's hardly been any updates to the game other than bugfixes, and I even though I've played this game quite a bit if you compare it to all the attention TF2 has been getting I'm a bit disappointed.
  Hardly any updates, that is bullshit, there has been more than a dozen updates in 6 months time. That does not even include Valve patching gameplay problems in the pre-release demo. Finally, pile on an extra two versus campaigns, and more than a dozen survival maps to the released updates.
  It ain't TF2, stop comparing the two different games.
  
  --
  /^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
41. Re:This sucks by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 09:51 · Score: 0
  
  This is hilarious. Valve comes out with a sequel 1 year later, and people are crying that it should be coming out with more DLC - so it's a grab for money. Bethesda keeps the DLC train running on Fallout 3, and people are crying for a new game, accusing Bethesda of milking Fallout 3 - so it's a grab for money.
  Sounds like: Shower me with free stuff and I'll continue liking you.
Dynamic Lighting by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 12:31 · Score: 5, Insightful

The real question is will I be able to to see the light from the other player's flashlights.
1. Re:Dynamic Lighting by TheRealMindChild · 2009-06-01 14:10 · Score: 1
  
  What? Honest question... do you not see it? As in, if they turn it off, does it not go off for you? It does for me.
  
  --
  
  "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
2. Re:Dynamic Lighting by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 14:19 · Score: 0
  
  Honest answer: While the other players flashlights have a cone of "light" that turns on and off, the direction that they are looking in makes absolutely no difference in actual lighting. Your buddies could have a translucent fan taped on to the end of their flashlight, lightsaber-style, for all the good it does you. There's serious underlying engine limitations, so I can't really fault Valve for making that bang-per-buck decision. But it is one of those things where once you've noticed it, you can't just forget it and go back to your happy innocent care-free days of zombie slaying.
3. Re:Dynamic Lighting by Martin+Blank · 2009-06-01 14:23 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  I think he's asking more about seeing the areas lit up by the other players' flashlights. It's something I've heard a few players talk about. I can see where my flashlight hits, but not where other flashlights hit. I suspect that it's a computationally difficult thing to perform.
  
  --
  You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
4. Re:Dynamic Lighting by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 14:24 · Score: 0
  
  What? Honest question... do you not see it? As in, if they turn it off, does it not go off for you? It does for me.
  QFT, unless you're playing on a console or on the PC version with the graphics turned all the way down, there is dynamic lighting from other players flashlights. It's not quite as gorgeous as the dynamic lighting from other players flashlights in Doom 3 co-op, but there's (slightly) more to it than just the flashlight beam sprite sticking off of the end of a weapon.
5. Re:Dynamic Lighting by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 14:28 · Score: 0
  
  The flashlights of other players are basically a cone glued to the end of the gun. They don't actually illuminate things.
6. Re:Dynamic Lighting by cowscows · 2009-06-01 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure I saw a video or podcast or something where they talked about this. They could make it work, but as you suggested, it was a big performance hit and so it got cut.
  
  --
  One time I threw a brick at a duck.
7. Re:Dynamic Lighting by PhrostyMcByte · 2009-06-01 15:23 · Score: 1
  
  I believe they answered this long ago -- that it would be easy to make happen, but it was better for horror gameplay to keep you seeing only your own flashlight.
8. Re:Dynamic Lighting by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 15:43 · Score: 0
  
  I can see where other player's flashlights hit. Then again, I'm running it full tilt on my 4670...Maybe this is something that is disabled for those with less computational power?
9. Re:Dynamic Lighting by ion.simon.c · 2009-06-01 18:08 · Score: 1
  
  QFT, unless you're playing on a console or on the PC version with the graphics turned all the way down
  Radeon X800 AGP (256MB RAM), graphics at medium or high. The flashlights of other players are translucent cones at the end of their weapon when active; they do not illuminate their surroundings.
  All of the in-game folks that I've talked to have *never* had their environment illuminated by a teammate's flashlight.
10. Re:Dynamic Lighting by shutdown+-p+now · 2009-06-01 19:23 · Score: 1
  
  I can see where other player's flashlights hit. Then again, I'm running it full tilt on my 4670...Maybe this is something that is disabled for those with less computational power?
  No. You see a weak beam of the spotlight, so you know the general direction of where they're pointing. But it doesn't really light walls and other things around them, as your flashlight does. It's very easy to spot - just look around, you'll only ever see one circle of light from your own flashlight, never any from others on the team.
  And it is that way even on the highest graphics settings.
11. Re:Dynamic Lighting by ensignyu · 2009-06-01 21:26 · Score: 1
  
  I'd guess that beyond just being computationally difficult, it'd look kind of weird just because of the latency and the fact that character movements are not perfectly smooth/natural.
12. Re:Dynamic Lighting by wintermute000 · 2009-06-01 23:00 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe its a bug w/ your card / catalyst drivers or the like.
  Seriously that card is what 5 years old? time to upgrade my friend. I remember selling that card on ebay 2-3 years ago on my way up to a Nvidia 7900 ;)
13. Re:Dynamic Lighting by ion.simon.c · 2009-06-02 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  A bug with *my* card/drivers and the cards of some dozens of other players? Not likely. :)
  Also, I'm quite happy with the kit that I have ATM. It'll play everything but Crysis based games. I'd rather spend the money on networking gear, storage, and good manuals.
Score! by ManuelH · 2009-06-01 12:49 · Score: 1

Left:4 - Death: 2 Left people win!

--
Mother used to said If you want you find a way But mother never danced through fire shower
Whats so great about that game. by Bender+Unit+22 · 2009-06-01 12:53 · Score: 1

I have been too busy working the last year so I have not had time for anything else than xbl games. But I just borrowed this game last week and it didn't seem so great to me. Perhaps because I only can play single player mode. (hate multiplayer since it costs money, I know noone who play games and I don't want to waste my spare time with random idiots on xbl :D)
It seems that many games these days focus on multiplayer and that's all great if you are into that sort of thing but not for casual gamer like me with little spare time that I don't want to waste on trying to connect to other people's laggy sessions hosted on their little DSL line and pay a subscription fee on top of that(nice going. charge people for having to run their own game servers).
1. Re:Whats so great about that game. by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 12:57 · Score: 1, Flamebait
  
  L4D is designed for the PC. Playing it on the moronbox is not going to be anywhere near as fun.
  Multiplayer is free on the PC, too.
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
2. Re:Whats so great about that game. by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 13:30 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Hint: you can output a PC to a 54" TV, too. And even use a controller, if you're too retarded to function with a keyboard and mouse.
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
3. Re:Whats so great about that game. by Spit · 2009-06-01 14:21 · Score: 1
  
  The game is pretty shortlived as a single player campaign, multiplayer is where it shines. Splitscreen is pretty good but online with random people is awesome.
  
  --
  POKE 36879,8
4. Re:Whats so great about that game. by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 17:38 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, I've been playing FPS on the PC since the beginning of FPS and while I've usually been a console-hater, I've had FAR more fun with L4D on 360 than the PC. The gameplay feels better and even the people you play with are nicer. Far better experience. I really regret buying a second copy for the PC (I assumed as much fun as I had on the 360, I'd love it even more on my home-turf of the PC... boy was I wrong).
5. Re:Whats so great about that game. by $1uck · 2009-06-01 22:28 · Score: 1
  
  I've been tempted to do the same just for the player made campaigns. I'm not sure how it will run on my mac mini (latest generation with 4gb of ram). I dunno I may break down and try it.
6. Re:Whats so great about that game. by jorgeuva · 2009-06-02 01:09 · Score: 0, Redundant
  
  I've got it on both systems and play on the 360 99% of the time. Why? All my friends have 360s. Not all of them have PCs that are capable of running the game very well.
Man up and write a letter. by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 13:01 · Score: 3, Informative

Gabe Newell (gaben@valvesoftware.com) reads all his mail. If you are upset about the failure to treat L4D as more than a tech demo, send him an email discussing your concerns. At the least, he'll respond, and who knows? It might help.
Be polite, be reasoned, and make sure to explain why you're upset. At the risk of making it sound form-letterish, I'd quote what he said as mentioned by this article:
http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/left_4_dead/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html

--
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
1. Re:Man up and write a letter. by sherriw · 2009-06-02 00:41 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure he appreciates all the spam he's going to get b/c you just posted his email address on the web. He won't be reading mail to that account for long.
2. Re:Man up and write a letter. by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-02 03:50 · Score: 1
  
  It's already in thousands of places. It's not like one more will do much. :P
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
3. Re:Man up and write a letter. by Ihmhi · 2009-06-02 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  He already posts his business e-mail all over the internets.
  
  --
  Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
4. Re:Man up and write a letter. by trawg · 2009-06-02 20:30 · Score: 1
  
  Tech demo? I've gotten more enjoyable game hours out of L4D than I have any other game for about 3 years
And the scores are... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 13:07 · Score: 5, Funny

Left - 4
Dead - 2
Chelsea - 2
Everton - 1
There's a boycott group already by Dracil · 2009-06-01 13:09 · Score: 1

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott
I think a lot of the anger will subside if they give a BIG discount to L4D owners.
1. Re:There's a boycott group already by $1uck · 2009-06-01 13:14 · Score: 1
  
  How about when they release several more campaigns for l4d b4 releasing l4d2? /hope they do.
2. Re:There's a boycott group already by Kelbear · 2009-06-01 13:28 · Score: 1
  
  I think they should update both games to current L4D2 technology. Then sell L4D1 and L4D2 as both a standalone and expansion. City of Heroes and City of Villains did this successfully.
  Buy 1 of them and pay the price of a standalone game. Buy the 2nd game as an expansion to the first. Then L4D1 players can enjoy the updated tech in the same maps they've been playing and be happy to receive the update they were promised. In order to get more content along with the update, they would be happy to pay expansion prices for another 4 campaigns.
  L4D2 players would be able to enjoy their new game, and will probably also want to buy L4D1 content as an expansion prices.
  Both the old players and the new players would pay for a standalone+expansion, and the old players still get a nice fat update like they were expecting.
  Plus combining the games like this makes sense in terms of mapping and modding so that the user-generated content in production right now can be used to increase the value of both L4D1 and L4D2 at the same time. The sum would be greater than the value of the individual parts.
3. Re:There's a boycott group already by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 13:31 · Score: 1
  
  I doubt the engine technology will change in L4D2. Seems like they're still using Source 2007.
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
4. Re:There's a boycott group already by anomnomnomymous · 2009-06-01 22:42 · Score: 1
  
  Chet (a Valve employee) has already confirmed that any map made for L4D will also work for L4D2 without any problems.
  The only real problem I can see is people who start making maps for L4D2 (and the new AI Director) in mind, and not releasing them for L4D.
  
  --
  When you shoot a mime, do you use a silencer?
TF2 Scout Included by SilentOneNCW · 2009-06-01 13:12 · Score: 3, Funny

I've heard that the Scout from TF2 will make an appearance... BOINK! http://williamjudd.com/2009/06/01/left-4-dead-2-announced-scout-from-tf2-to-feature/

--
games journalism blog
Unfortunate. by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 13:16 · Score: 0

Sadly, this game will get no play by the Slashdot crowd due to the restrictive DRM known as Steam, right? Oh wait, we only bitch and moan when it's for a game we weren't actually going to play anyway. Never mind, carry on.
1. Re:Unfortunate. by Ahnteis · 2009-06-01 18:46 · Score: 1
  
  Steam does have some restrictions. But it also has some huge bonuses for consumers. And all you have to do is log into your account -- no weird install limits or hidden drivers.
  I can live with that.
BD-ROM already? by tepples · 2009-06-01 13:38 · Score: 1

So once again PC owners get screwed by the shitty Xbox 360 and its 7gig disc format
How so? Do you expect PC owners to already own BD-ROM drives?
1. Re:BD-ROM already? by wampus · 2009-06-01 13:52 · Score: 1
  
  It's a Valve game, you don't even get prompted for the install media.
2. Re:BD-ROM already? by tepples · 2009-06-01 14:14 · Score: 1
  
  you don't even get prompted for the install media
  Then how do you expect to download even 7 GB on a 5 GB/mo Internet access plan, which is the best home Internet access plan in your area?
3. Re:BD-ROM already? by wampus · 2009-06-01 14:32 · Score: 1
  
  I'd suggest asking Valve, not some random guy on slashdot.
4. Re:BD-ROM already? by SeaFox · 2009-06-01 17:12 · Score: 1
  
  Is it actually 7 GB when you download it? Or just that size on the console version since it's sent in playable form on the media?
  I'm brand new to Steam, but I'm downloading Mirror's Edge right now, and it said I'll need like 8 GB of free hard disk space on the system requirements, but the download is only 900 MB.
5. Re:BD-ROM already? by Lord+Kano · 2009-06-01 17:28 · Score: 1
  
  How so? Do you expect PC owners to already own BD-ROM drives?
  How about a two-DVD install?
  Consoles make that nigh unto impossible.
  LK
  
  --
  "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
6. Re:BD-ROM already? by Ahnteis · 2009-06-01 18:38 · Score: 1
  
  That's probably the first download. I can't imagine they'd have content THAT uncompressed.
7. Re:BD-ROM already? by sopssa · 2009-06-01 19:57 · Score: 1
  
  Sir, the correct word is compressed. If it would be uncompressed, it would be that 8GB.
8. Re:BD-ROM already? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 01:41 · Score: 0
  
  you don't even get prompted for the install media
  Then how do you expect to download even 7 GB on a 5 GB/mo Internet access plan
  Get the retail version that will come on multiple discs if they can't fit it on one.
9. Re:BD-ROM already? by Ahnteis · 2009-06-05 19:12 · Score: 1
  
  I meant uncompressed. Meaning that the final installation (not download) would be stored in completely non-compressed format. I guess it'd use less CPU time, but CPU de-compressing is faster than loading from disk most likely.
  However, my meaning was probably completely NOT clear from my post due to the time of said posting. And (noting the time) this one may not be any better, but I won't know until tomorrow.
Multiple keyboards and mice? by tepples · 2009-06-01 13:45 · Score: 1

And even use a controller, if you're too retarded to function with a keyboard and mouse.
If you use a controller, it doesn't necessarily mean you're retarded; it could mean that you have friends and Windows is retarded. Or have newer versions of DirectInput made it easier for a game to support multiple keyboards and multiple mice plugged into a USB hub?
1. Re:Multiple keyboards and mice? by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 14:12 · Score: 0
  
  Why would you ever play a shooter split-screen? FPSes are made for one-ass-per-computer play. Even Halo, etc. are designed for it (splitscreen is a poor hack).
  The telling thing is that autoaim is enabled by default on a controller...
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
2. Re:Multiple keyboards and mice? by tepples · 2009-06-01 14:39 · Score: 1
  
  Why would you ever play a shooter split-screen?
  Because I don't want to spend $120 on each game and upwards of $2,500 on a four-ass video game system (PCs + monitors + Windows licenses + Ethernet cables + switch). Or because not all shooters are first-person: Raiden II for instance.
  
  The telling thing is that autoaim is enabled by default on a controller
  So? It was enabled by default in the 1993 PC shooter Doom.
3. Re:Multiple keyboards and mice? by Sark666 · 2009-06-01 14:46 · Score: 1
  
  Cause l4d is probably the first game (only?) that allows you to enable split screen but set a custom res. For example, I did 2048 x 768 res in l4d, enabled twinview where it spans the desktop along two screens, and then enable the split screen in l4d on the pc. Two players, two screens, one copy. The only thing that gets mucked up is the menu (stretched across both) but in game is perfectly fine, and with the modest requirements of this game, it plays fine too. Although I hardly play anymore, it's a cool option.
4. Re:Multiple keyboards and mice? by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 14:49 · Score: 1
  
  Because I don't want to spend $120 on each game and upwards of $2,500 on a four-ass video game system (PCs + monitors + Windows licenses + Ethernet cables + switch).
  You...don't. They presumably own computers. If they don't, it's the wrong game to play with those friends. It's not designed for that, and it shows glaringly if you've ever played the PC version.
  
  Or because not all shooters are first-person: Raiden II for instance.
  Irrelevant. The topic is first-person shooters. Stop trying to pathetically split hairs.
  
  So? It was enabled by default in the 1993 PC shooter Doom.
  Bad example and you know it, primarily because there wasn't effective mouselook or vertical aim. It had to have vertical auto-aim. You'll note that Marathon (the first FPS with mouselook) didn't have auto-aim. Whereas, today, console FPSes are dumbed down to the point where such is required because you are playing with a loaf of bread that has analog sticks poking out.
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
5. Re:Multiple keyboards and mice? by FishWithAHammer · 2009-06-01 14:50 · Score: 1
  
  I didn't know about that. Neat trick, but I'd rather have my own display and my own positional audio on my own machine. :)
  
  --
  "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
6. Re:Multiple keyboards and mice? by tepples · 2009-06-01 15:04 · Score: 1
  
  They presumably own computers.
  But are not allowed to remove them from the house, nor to stay home alone. And even if they do bring their own computers, I still have to buy them copies of the game that we will be playing.
  
  If they don't, it's the wrong game to play with those friends.
  If not a first-person shooter, then what game should I be playing with visitors who are here for another reason, not expressly for a LAN party?
VALVE- the walmart of gaming. by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 13:48 · Score: 0

Is what they are aiming for.
Oh joy!! by marco.antonio.costa · 2009-06-01 14:19 · Score: 1

Man, this game is worst on me than crack. I hope they remove the hunter pounce damage hard limit and work some cooler math for it, use log or whatever. :-P

--
Send your spendthrift head of state this
More maps, this time? by incognito84 · 2009-06-01 14:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

I don't have a problem with Left 4 Dead 2, but the one problem I did have with the original L4D is that there simply wasn't enough maps. You were running through the same sets over and over and over and over again.
November? Really? by Aggrav8d · 2009-06-01 15:32 · Score: 1

Isn't that about one month too late to cash in on the Christmas crowd AND the Halloween crowd?
MOD PARENT UP PLEASE by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 15:36 · Score: 0

Mod parent up, this is a great idea! I ran out of mod points an hour ago :(
Trailer.. by mambodog · 2009-06-01 17:13 · Score: 1

Trailer viewable here or in hi-def.
Re:MODERATORS!!! READ THIS. It is of great importa by dintech · 2009-06-01 20:14 · Score: 1

You are much more annoying than an incorrectly modded comment.
Gameplay footage, 8 videos + review by icsx · 2009-06-01 21:16 · Score: 1

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14352245/left-4-dead-2/videos/l4d2_gmp_dockstart_052809.html http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14352245/left-4-dead-2/videos/l4d2_gmp_fireammo_052809.html http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14352245/left-4-dead-2/videos/l4d2_gmp_fryingpan_052809.html http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14352245/left-4-dead-2/videos/l4d2_gmp_gardenmaze_052809.html http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14352245/left-4-dead-2/videos/l4d2_gmp_kitchensmoker_052809.html http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14352245/left-4-dead-2/videos/l4d2_gmp_saferoom_052809.html http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14352245/left-4-dead-2/videos/l4d2_gmp_alarm_052809.html http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14352245/left-4-dead-2/videos/l4d2_gmp_axeownage_052809.html

Review: http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/988/988161p1.html

As a side note, Valve just killed community mapping for original Left 4 Dead by announcing this so soon. Development SDK is still in beta for L4D and thus releasing information for L4D2, most of the people will move to that whilst skippijg the first game. I feel so abandoned right now. I have 2 maps ready for 5 maps campaign.

There has been also talk that the new game will have the old campaigns too.They say that the custom campaigns made for L4D will work also on L4D2 so why the hell they even bother to do SDK if they gonna screw us over by making us buy another game in which we already have like half? Money. Valve is gone greedy.
Re:MODERATORS!!! READ THIS. It is of great importa by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-01 22:38 · Score: 0

Yet you lack the common knowledge that +5 Funny does NOT increase karma in any way... As is stated on the site, funny comments do not improve karma. This would have made people think had it been a +5 insightful or interesting.

I mod you +1:Fail
Psssst by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 00:18 · Score: 0

Orange Box 2 this fall, contents: L4D2, HL2:EP3, Portal 2. You heard it here.
Hey moron! by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 00:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

How about you lick my balls?

Moderation +4
50% Funny
20% Insightful
20% Underrated
Know what you are talking about before you post, douche tool.
1. Re:Hey moron! by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 03:39 · Score: 0
  
  Oh awesome. I would have given this +1 informative.
Paths by sherriw · 2009-06-02 00:40 · Score: 1

Get rid of the boxed in path through the levels, give me a wide open city to explore and try to survive in (Grand Theft Auto meets Resident Evil) then call me.
The 4th time following the same path, and it gets boring.
PARTY ZOMBIES! by syntax · 2009-06-02 00:50 · Score: 1

Between L4D2 happening in New Orleans, and Dead Rising 2 happening in Vegas, this holiday season is going to be packed with zombies that want to party.
1. Re:PARTY ZOMBIES! by elrous0 · 2009-06-02 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  "packed with zombies that want to party"
  Just like Hollywood.
  
  --
  SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I'm too lazy... My reasons... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 01:08 · Score: 0

Good point. I'm too lazy to complain. I mean, I write to Ford Co. about features I want in cars, but when it comes to games, the developers should be scouting opinion for do`s/dont`s. Anyways, I only have 1 complaint that holds any weight. (Of course I'm upset about only having 4 compaigns in L4D -- they promised more). My argument:
Releasing this as L4D 2 will accomplish 1 of 2 things:
1) Split the L4D community between L4D_1 and L4D_2. The main reason they couldn't/wouldn't release Counter-Strike:Source_2. You can only release a new CS:S game once every 10 years because the online gaming community is more important than content. (No players = no game to play.)
2) Kill L4D_1 community entirely. This is bad because L4D_1 was a full-priced release from Valve, where there are many expectations on that alone. It's almost like the other comments I've read: L4D was only intended as a "beta tech demo," but was sold as a complete game to behold the community all the other online Valve games have.
I'm going to have to say that #2 is most likely. If this is the case, Valve should anticipate the death of L4D_1 and give generous discounts on L4D_2 to current L4D_1 owners.
Matchmaking... by relguj9 · 2009-06-02 01:34 · Score: 1

As long as they fix matchmaking as promised to reduce rage-quitters and allow us to match up 4v4 teams, I'm on board!

A matchmaking system like Halo 3 would make me cry tears of joy, but I'd settle for something close.

This is the one thing holding this game back IMHO.
discounts for owners of the original? by stormguard2099 · 2009-06-02 01:42 · Score: 1

I won't mind the seque coming out late this year as long as they do something special for the owners of the first one.
Maybe a 10-20% off or access to a closed beta would make me happy enough.

--
http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
Seems like "Left 4 Dead 1.5" by EXTomar · 2009-06-02 02:15 · Score: 1

The problem is that L4D itself is hard to justify as a $60 and I say that as a big fan. Now they want us to spend another $60 on another game that features the same technology with four characters and four scenarios? In the past this would have been free updates possibly spread apart but updates instead of separate products.
To repeat: I love the game and I consider it an example of understanding the weakness in a engine platform and maximizing it to the fullest extent but asking us to pay $60 for another version of the same thing is kind of "boo".
I'm still waiting... by NervousNerd · 2009-06-02 02:24 · Score: 0

I'm still waiting for cs_747 and as_oilrig for CS:S. Any time now, Valve.
enable friendly fire? zub? by BitterAndDrunk · 2009-06-02 03:03 · Score: 1

FF is ON no matter what, unless there's an sv_cheats to disable it. . .

--
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . . .
1. Re:enable friendly fire? zub? by BikeHelmet · 2009-06-02 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  I'm talking about the AI variables.
  Bots will not shoot through you if they can avoid it, because it causes damage. This means their friendly fire cvar is turned OFF.
  Turn it ON, and they have no problem unloading shotgun shells right through your back if it keeps the zombies off you. :P
2. Re:enable friendly fire? zub? by BitterAndDrunk · 2009-06-02 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Ah, thanks for the clarification.
  
  --
  You better watch out, there may be dogs about . . .
from the we-need-a-zombie-topic-icon dept. by HTH+NE1 · 2009-06-02 03:50 · Score: 1

from the we-need-a-zombie-topic-icon dept.

I nominate Tarman from Return of the Living Dead as source image.

--
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
1. Re:from the we-need-a-zombie-topic-icon dept. by atomic-penguin · 2009-06-02 05:21 · Score: 1
  
  I vote for Bub.
  http://www.best-horror-movies.com/images/Day-of-the-dead-Bub-small.jpg
  
  --
  /^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
Old 'Nawlins by brain1 · 2009-06-02 06:04 · Score: 2, Informative

Well, I recognize the setting in the screen shots as the French Quarter in New Orleans around Royal Street. Looks like a typical Mardi Gras to me. Especially the morning after. -dh
WHOA! Too fast...They create their own problem by Anonymous Coward · 2009-06-02 07:53 · Score: 0

Personally, I haven't had time to really get into and enjoy L4D yet, though I bought it a couple months ago. It's still on my list, just "after I'm done playing Sacred 2 and Infamous on the PS3". But if by the time I'm ready to play #1, they release #2.... well, I'll skip both. Why? Releasing L4D2 is pretty much going to cause the L4D scene to dry up. I won't play L4D if there's no one to play with, and I certainly won't open my wallet again for a Valve game whose lifetime is ONE YEAR. Screw that. Do they think it's my only game?
Why no PS3 version valve by technomanceraus · 2009-06-02 08:49 · Score: 0

Why is there no PS3 version coming out. PS3 too hard for Valve to program for :)

--
-= Technomancer =-
1. Re:Why no PS3 version valve by atomic-penguin · 2009-06-04 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty much. Gabe Newell has stated in several interviews that the PS3 is a pain in the ass platform to develop games on, and for the most part is a huge waste of time.
  
  --
  /^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
2. Re:Why no PS3 version valve by technomanceraus · 2009-06-04 23:24 · Score: 0
  
  Sounds like a cop out to me though, I can bet it would be relatively easy to get the source engine running on a PS3, its not that cutting edge. Sure you'd have to spend some dev time on it but i'm sure 22 million potential extra sales might be worth it ?
  
  --
  -= Technomancer =-
Re:MODERATORS!!! READ THIS. It is of great importa by thexile · 2009-06-09 04:26 · Score: 1

Me too!!!