Microsoft Confirms October 22 Release Date For Windows 7

techwrench was one of several readers to send word that Microsoft has officially announced Windows 7 will be generally available on October 22nd. They also mentioned the Windows 7 Upgrade Option Program: "This program enables participating retailers and OEMs to offer a special deal to upgrade to Windows 7 for customers purchasing a qualifying PC. I'll be doing another blog post about this program with a date and more details when we get closer to availability. Obviously, Release To Manufacturing (RTM) is an important milestone on the path to GA. We anticipate that we'll be able to make the RTM code for Windows 7 available to our partners sometime in the 2nd half of July. We also expect to be able to make RTM code for Windows Server 2008 R2 available to our partners in this time frame as well."

Comments

On Oct. 23rd

[Anonymous Coward]

They should start working on XP SP4

fp for Oct!

[Falc0n]

or I wonder if this post will get delayed 3 months at the last moment.

Great

[nicolas.kassis]

Maybe my time stalling the windows xp to vista migration is drawing to a close.

Re:Great

[Falc0n]

I'm in the same boat, however I wonder how stable Windows 7 actually will be? If it really is touted to be the 'SP2/3 release for vista', then it might be worth upgrading to. However, if its like every other windows release, it'll be crap and you'll have to wait until SP1 comes out Luckily I'm 99% linux / osx.. I only use windows for my very seldom gaming.

Re:Great

[nicolas.kassis]

Yeah, my windows usage is mostly work related. In essence, from our testing it's doing pretty well. One of the net admins here did have some serious issues with what I believe was video card drivers but that is somewhat expected at this stage.

Re:Great

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, good thing they decided not to rush this one out incomplete and untested like Vista.... oh, wait...

Re:Great

[dunkelfalke]

Vista SP2 is already out there.

Re:Great

[jo42]

Even a gold plated, extra shiny, polished turd is still a turd at heart.

Re:Great

[Rival]

I've been stalling buying a laptop because of the Vista debacle. I refuse to pay for a Vista license, plain and simple. That includes paying for a Vista license plus some extra fee to allow me to upgrade to either XP or Windows 7.

Because of this, I have not been able to buy the type of laptop I am looking for for several years now.

Yes, I know that there are Windows-free laptops available. I also know that they are either A) lousy hardware/low-end specs; B) off-brand, or C) too high-priced, i.e., Apple. (Calm down, fanboys: I think Apple hardware is worth the cost, but only at price bands that are out of my range.)

What I'm saying is that it is not possible to find a decent desktop-replacement laptop from a major brand that doesn't force you to pay for Windows.

This announcement is happy news for me, since it removes the Vista roadblock that has been preventing me from buying a laptop for years. Not that I intend to run Windows 7 (except perhaps in a VM), but if I must pay good money for a Windows license to get the hardware configuration I want, then I may as well get a passingly useful license.

Re:Great

[dunkelfalke]

It is still the lesser evil compared to pretty much other current PC operating systems.

If you need an operating system for the sake of showing off that you can compile the kernel, by all means, take linux. If you want to do serious work, Vista is pretty much the way to go. It might not be very fast, but I'd rather have a slow operating system with the apps I need than a fast operating system without applicatios. As for the reliability, I'd have to experience a single crash yet, so it is a moot point.

Re:Great

[MrNiceguy_KS]

I haven't had any stability problems at all running it on either my netbook or my desktop. I'm actually surprised at how well it runs on my Aspire One with 1 GB Ram.

I'll probably go back to XP, though, only because the 3rd-party Ext2 driver doesn't work properly under Vista. It does work, but you have to re-assign the drive letters after every boot. Can't blame Microsoft, but its enough of a pain I'm about ready to wipe and reinstall.

Re:Great

[Mattsson]

As I work in a mostly Novell-based environment, I won't be advocating anything past XP32 yet in a while.
There is no Novell client for XP64 and the Vista (and thus also W7) client is a complete disaster that is more or less useless.

Re:Great

[Anonymous Coward]

[Shrug]

I just upgraded from Win2k to XP this year. I figure I'll upgrade to Windows 7 in .... hmm... about 5 or 6 years. If all my machines aren't linux and OS X by then.

Re:Great

[Denjiro]

Why not just by a laptop from a place that doesn't require you to buy an OS?

www.powernotebooks.com

Re:Great

[Allador]

I refuse to pay for a Vista license, plain and simple. That includes paying for a Vista license plus some extra fee to allow me to upgrade to either XP or Windows 7.

That's not how it works.

Go look at business class machines from Dell.com right now.

The price for Vista Business and Vista Busines w/ XP Pro Downgrade are the same.

So?

[BadAnalogyGuy]

Windows isn't even on my radar. My desktop computer runs Ubuntu. My cellphone runs Android.

Is there anyone on this website who cares a whit about Windows 7?

Re:So?

[imamac]

No. But, how could we have organized MS-bashing without these Windows stories?

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, we are all pig headed fan boys like you

Re:So?

[hampton]

If you work in IT, it's difficult not to care about Windows when it's 90% of the market.

Re:So?

[Spazztastic]

If you work in IT, it's difficult not to care about Windows when it's 90% of the market.

Before people pounce on him like the lynchmob this website is, it's rarely the people in IT who want to stay with windows. It's almost always the PHB or CEO who has been sold on it because he went to a big conference and they had a Windows 7 booth that gave him a free light up pen. I want to move to Linux in the company I work for, but people in the various departments will always drag their feet and be resistant to it.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

ummmm... yes.

Until all of the games I run on Windows work on Linux I won't be installing it on my desktop.

Laptop, yes. Other computers hanging around the house freeloading on my electric bill, yes.

But L4D, WoW, CoH, DoW2, Il-2:1946, ArmA, soon ArmA2, plus probably a few others will all need to run reasonably well on Linux for me to move that system over. Some, like WoW, do. Others, not so much.

And frankly, $100 for an OEM copy of Home Premium won't kill my wallet. It's more than I want to pay for the content delivery mechanism for my games. I keep in touch with several college friends and so forth socializing on ventrilo or teamspeak while blowing crap up, and it's a fun time. No, I am not willing to give it up.

Re:So?

[nicolas.kassis]

while I don't personally use it for daily work. I do have to support users who do use windows. So in the end, yes I care. Until the day I can get Linux accepted I'm stuck supporting windows networks. I also do Linux server support and OSX client support so it's not all bad.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you commenting here ? Shows how desperate you are for attention. Nobody gives a fuck what you use either. This story is for people who use windows or are interested or have to deal with it one way or another.

Re:So?

[gEvil (beta)]

It's almost always the PHB or CEO who has been sold on it because he went to a big conference and they had a Windows 7 booth that gave him a free light up pen.

That gives me an idea. We should set up a Linux light-up pen giveaway program. The pens will come disassembled in the package, and there will be no instructions on how to put it together. Oh, and the package will include the wrong size batteries. We can also include a little fold-up card that says "Open and read only as a last resort" on the outside. And when they finally give in and open the card, it will say "Figure it out yourself, noob! It's only a pen!" That's a surefire way of giving PHBs and other management the "true" Linux experience. : p

Re:So?

[dave420]

Yes, lots of people on this website care about Windows 7. Just because you don't doesn't mean no one else does. You're not that important :)

Re:So?

[Tibor the Hun]

There are a few of us fortunate to work in Mac shops. :)

Re:So?

[Spazztastic]

That's a surefire way of giving PHBs and other management the "true" Linux experience. : p

That, my friend, is what consultants are there for.

Re:So?

[onkelonkel]

"Is there anyone on this website who cares a whit about Windows 7?"

/Raises hand/ That would be me. I want a stable 64-bit OS so I can run AutoCad with more than 3.5 GB of usable RAM. Our IT people intend to skip Vista so, yes, the advent of Windows 7 is indeed of interest to me.

Re:So?

[gEvil (beta)]

Touché.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

Before people pounce on him like the lynchmob this website is, it's rarely the people in IT who want to stay with windows.

I work in IT and like to stay on Windows. I use Windows at work and with my lab at home for both workstations and servers. There have been times that I have used Linux for certain play projects, but honestly at the end of the day I end up going back to Windows. The only Linux/BSD variant I'm currently running is Monowall for my firewall. The last time I ran Linux as my primary workstation is when I played Quake and Team Fortress, and connected to the Internet through Netcom and my 28.8kbps modem :) I feel that I am a true IT geek too. I love working with computers, no matter what platform it is running. I love working with routers, firewalls, switches (I have a CCNA).

Maybe one can say that I'm not a real IT person, or that people like me are not that common, but the truth is there are a lot of people in IT who prefer staying with Windows.

Re:So?

[dunkelfalke]

My desktop runs Vista SP2, my cellphone runs Windows Mobile 6.1.

I do care about Windows 7.

Re:So?

[TimeTraveler1884]

If you work in IT, it's difficult not to care about Windows when it's 90% of the market.

True, but I am getting better at it every day.

Re:So?

[arkhan_jg]

I don't want to move to linux on the desktop for the ordinary users. With the range and amount of crappy software (designed for windows 98!) that their managers insist they MUST have that is windows only and doesn't have a linux analog, I can live without the grief of desktop virtualization.

Add to that the many staff than can't handle when an option moves two places down in a menu on office, or how to fix the 'problem' that I've already shown them how to fix three times this week, I'd spend my entire day just helping them find their way round firefox (yes, we have firefox on our windows pcs. No, they don't use it because they 'know the internet', and the big e IS the internet)

Windows sucks, but supporting it sucks less than trying to deal with staff who don't gain anything from training, even if we had the money or time to pay for it. And active directory might suck, but it sucks less than trying to get the equivalent functionality with openldap, and my linux servers still tie in to it nicely.

Re:So?

[Spazztastic]

(I have a CCNA)

I do too, and I have karma to burn so I am going to say this joke:

How do you get a CCNA off your porch? Pay for your pizza.

Re:So?

[Spazztastic]

and the big e IS the internet)

On my Dad's computer the only way I got him to use Firefox was by deleting all icons to IE. The only way to run it at this point was by Start>Run iexplore.

Re:So?

[geekoid]

Wan can't you use XP 64bit?

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget to include the pre-assembled time machine in the package, since you obviously want to provide the "true" Linux experience from circa 1998.

Re:So?

[Kjella]

I run Kubuntu. I consider other distros, I consider Gnome, I consider getting a Mac, I'll consider Windows 7 too. I did switch to Linux because of Vista but it's not like I've seen the light and would never ever use anything else ever again. It works, it has warts, if other companies are better at fixing their warts eventually I'll switch away again. Overly optimistic? No, but XP followed Windows ME, Intel Core's followed Pentium IV, in short I'm not ruling out the possibility that Microsoft learned a lot last generation.

Re:So?

[BudVVeezer]

I use Vista with 8 cores and 8 GB of RAM, and it runs like a gem. Perhaps your IT people should stop reading /. and actually try the technologies they refuse to run. Of course, I'm sure someone here will simply point out that you need to have such a beefy machine in order to run Vista. Oh look, a cliff for us to jump off!

Re:So?

[Itninja]

We explored Linux as a database server solution last year. We are not running Windows servers now (all AIX), but we still stayed away from Linux because of the lack of enterprise support. Initially the price looked really good, but then we added the cost of buying enterprise support from the few that actually provide it and the cost skyrocketed well beyond the cost of software and support for AIX.

Re:So?

[chemosh6969]

Bit's rarely the people in IT who want to stay with windows.

If one works for a tiny company that doesn't use much software than firefox, or really basic programs, and don't interact with people or businesses outside of their domain, I'd agree. In the real world, a good IT person would realize there's room for both products within the company and in most cases it wouldn't be a great idea to switch everyone's computer to linux. There's nothing wrong with Windows when it does the job that's requested of it. Sure there's problems with it but there's software issues with linux also. At the same time, there's places for windows and saying linux needs to replace the computers in a company is just as ignorant as the company that demands windows only.

Re:So?

[L4t3r4lu5]

That was Spazztastic!

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

Active Directory is way easier to manage than all other directories solutions out there. Windows 7, and even Xp boots faster. I use Linux since the 98, and it's great for some things, not for others.
One of the most amazing things I find are places where the sysadmins are too dumb to setup a LDAP server, and setup the linux boxes to authenticate against. Most linux only shops are a fucking nightmare, because most people don't know that Linux have ACLs, don't know how to authenticate users in a desktop against something, have no idea whatsoever of where they should fuck install things (tip: /opt is not synonym for C:\Program Files).
Sad to say, but are these ignorants who have no idea of the architectural differences between diferent OSes, who can't figure out the difference, who spare files on directories based on dates, because they don't know that ext3 have direcory entry hashes, who don't even understand what is a kernel switch, Exactly those ignorants are the ones the first to bash Windows.
Of course, there are the ignorants knowledgeable on Linux, who cannot figure out the difference between Win32 and MFC who jump at the same wagon.
And worse, there are the ignorants who thinks that Mac OS X is an awesome OS when they don't even manage to have a true 64 bits kernel, nowadays, where having 8 and 16GB is unbelievably cheap.
I run Windows 7 on my desktop, have a macbook , a home server with FreeBSD and Linux under ESXi and use ubuntu on my work desktop, along with an older power mac G5.
All Oses suck in one or other way. But Windows 7 have been giving me a consistently good experience.

Re:So?

[UserChrisCanter4]

XP-x64 is really Windows Server 2003 with the XP appearance tacked on top. It's a fine OS, but it's also an orphaned child that's often left aside. It was cooked up as a temporary stop-gap until Vista64, and it served its stopgap purpose.

Drivers are non-existent for some pieces of hardware. Pretty much any hardware needs to have XP and Vista drivers, but XP-x64 isn't actually XP (it requires 64-bit drivers), so the drivers aren't necessarily a drop-in replacement. With the release of Vista-64 as Microsoft's 64-bit desktop OS, XP-x64 is also a complete dead-end in the driver department; new hardware comes out, and since Vista64 and Windows Server 2008 already exist, there's not as much reason for companies to bother with driver support for XP-x64. It's not worth the testing or support resources necessary for an OS that only ever commanded a tiny fraction of the market. On top of that, plenty of install applications fail because they check for XP or Vista but not XP-x64; even though the program will run, it can't be installed without some irritating workarounds.

On top of that, his IT department may be unwilling to dedicate the resources necessary to maintaining one or a few workstations with a totally different OS and image than the rest of the systems. You may argue that it's IT's job to do that, but they also need to weigh costs and benefits; perhaps they've already determined that the hardware or critical software isn't supported under XP-x64, or perhaps they're about to migrate to Win7 and it simply isn't worth the extra cost and hassle until they start migrating people in 9 months.

Re:So?

[Lumpy]

you know you can go out and buy light up pen's with anything printed on them.

get some "linux" pens and other marketing crap made up. drop them on the brain-dead CTO and even rewrite some of the MSFT FUD campaign materials to target Microsoft with linux as the savior.

Oh and throw out every copy of Information Week that arrives. That useless RAG does more damage to IT than anything else.... well maybe CIO magazine, that one is typically nothing but damage as well.

I always find that the dragging of feet is based on legacy apps that will not run under Linux. Sun's VirtualBox solves that issue, or run them on a Terminal server. Worked here.

Re:So?

[siyavash]

You should be fired. Seriously. It's dumb fucks like you who answer support calls without knowing jack shit what they are talking about and giving people idiotic answers. Typical support worker mentality. "I work on supporting it, my bread food rent comes from it, but no no, I don't even use it so I don't really know it.".

Damn fool! You should be fired.

Re:So?

[jimicus]

Before people pounce on him like the lynchmob this website is, it's rarely the people in IT who want to stay with windows. It's almost always the PHB or CEO who has been sold on it because he went to a big conference and they had a Windows 7 booth that gave him a free light up pen. I want to move to Linux in the company I work for, but people in the various departments will always drag their feet and be resistant to it.

All of which is well and good, but have you actually analysed business needs lately? Most businesses have all sorts of boring admin needs which nobody writing free software would be even remotely likely to find interesting - and nobody writing commercial software could justify the man-hours for the return.

I can give you a few cases in hand:

I defy you to find me a payroll and accounts package suitable for the small business which runs on Linux. There exist legacy systems which only need a terminal emulator to use - but they're unusual these days unless they're something which was bought years ago.

There exist web applications which you can run on your own systems (which as often as not require SQL Server and Windows Server on the backend anyhow) but these tend to be geared up for huge businesses.

But a simple basic desktop app which deals with these things under Linux - no such thing.

OK, how about management? Yes I know Active Directory is fundamentally LDAP at its core and you can authenticate a Linux system against LDAP quite easily. But OpenLDAP is an example of the worst of open source - not only is it about 12 years behind the likes of Active Directory, anyone pointing out missing features is generally pointed to papers that someone has written which basically say "Even though every other directory product out there implements feature X with some degree of success, it's a fundamentally bad idea because of problem Y and so it won't be going into OpenLDAP". (Yes, some bugger's actually gone out and written a white paper saying exactly that when discussing multi-master replication. A similar answer is given when anyone asks about server-side sorting of results).

Even when you get over the backend issues, Active Directory can be so much more than just a user account repository. Granted, more-or-less anything you can do in AD you can somehow do in Linux but you have to reinvent the wheel because guess what? Nobody's put together a half-competent framework which deals with the management side and doesn't require you to spend a fortnight just figuring out how to get started with it.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

and the big e IS the internet)

On my Dad's computer the only way I got him to use Firefox was by deleting all icons to IE. The only way to run it at this point was by Start>Run iexplore.

I don't understand. Was your dad unhappy with Internet Explorer? Why were you forcing one option on him over another. I don't care what technology it is, I make sure I give the user what they want. I biggest pet peeve is when an "IT" guy will come in and change someones desktop to meet the "IT" guy's need and not the users.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

I work in IT and like to stay on Windows....

Please turn in your geek card as you exit the premises.

Re:So?

[Spazztastic]

and the big e IS the internet)

On my Dad's computer the only way I got him to use Firefox was by deleting all icons to IE. The only way to run it at this point was by Start>Run iexplore.

I don't understand. Was your dad unhappy with Internet Explorer? Why were you forcing one option on him over another. I don't care what technology it is, I make sure I give the user what they want. I biggest pet peeve is when an "IT" guy will come in and change someones desktop to meet the "IT" guy's need and not the users.

This was before IE8 came out. Firefox 3 + Adblock+, along with the immunuzed system from Spybot will save me the trouble of having to clean his computer of virus' and spyware every few months.

Re:So?

[Amouth]

saddly that is what it has turned into..

i didn't even bother renewing my CCNA 6-8 years ago..

while the NP's are still worth it and the IE is still a simi exclusive club..

Certs can only get you so far..

honestly i think these cram and coaching classes for certs should be banned

Re:So?

[IANAAC]

Nobody's put together a half-competent framework which deals with the management side and doesn't require you to spend a fortnight just figuring out how to get started with it.

Ever hear of a little company called Novell? eDirectory does everything you've considered.

As for spending a fortnight figuring out how to get started... well, frankly, if you're setting up any kind of directory service, you SHOULD be spending a good amount of time figuring things out. That kind of thing shouldn't be setup or administered by anyone but an administrator, familiar with the entire network infrastructure.

Re:So?

[janwedekind]

If you work in IT, it's difficult not to care about Windows when it's 90% of the market.

Yeah. It feels like driving a Ferrari. It's difficult not to care about the other cars when they constitute 90% of the traffic.

Re:So?

[DrugCheese]

I install windows:
      Have to install raid drivers - reboot
      Have to install various MB drivers - reboot
      Have to install audio drivers -reboot
      Have to install video drivers - reboot
      Have to close out of (3?) wizards to get to the desktop and online

I install linux: done and online

Re:So?

[cbhacking]

XP x64 drivers are hard to come by for a lot of hardware; most OEMs didn't bother with the OS, and while Vista can load most XP drivers, the reverse is not true (typically, the OS, not the driver, is backward-compatible).

Technically it's the same kernel as Server 2003, so if that works on your hardware (in x64) then XP x64 will too. That isn't something you can count on for a desktop machine, though.

Re:So?

[howardd21]

Thanks for one of the best posts I have seen on here. I was using an early version of Linux in 1993 or so, and I still get frustrated with all of the simple things it will not do, and the crappy things it does.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

The time spent figuring out how to organize things and the time spent figuring out how to work around deficiencies in the tools are not at all the same thing. Your reply is extremely disingenuous, although I expect that from people who automatically discount solutions from Microsoft based on nothing more than prejudice.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

You should have been able to change the icon for the Firefox desktop icon to the "IE" logo as well.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

Until all my games run on Windows, I wont be switching to it. It's surprising just how few games actually do have Windows ports since I can't find Same Gnome, Shiesen or even tux racer. What's this world coming to?

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's almost always the PHB or CEO who has been sold on it because he went to a big conference and they had a Windows 7 booth that gave him a free light up pen.

That gives me an idea. We should set up a Linux light-up pen giveaway program. The pens will come disassembled in the package, and there will be no instructions on how to put it together. Oh, and the package will include the wrong size batteries. We can also include a little fold-up card that says "Open and read only as a last resort" on the outside. And when they finally give in and open the card, it will say "Figure it out yourself, noob! It's only a pen!" That's a surefire way of giving PHBs and other management the "true" Linux experience. : p

put a EULA on the wrapper that says opening the wrapper means they are accepting the EULA.. then inside have a card with the EULA that explains they agree to be raped by rabid Apple fanboys.

Re:So?

[IANAAC]

Your reply is extremely disingenuous, although I expect that from people who automatically discount solutions from Microsoft based on nothing more than prejudice.

Nope, haven't discounted anything from Microsoft. My point was that there ARE other solutions, even commercial, out there. Whether you think they are deficient or not probably shows that you haven't even bothered to look at the alternatives.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is an excellent OS, but in the end, people need to choose the tool that is the best for the job. AIX is an excellent OS and you can do stuff with it (LPARs, VIO) that is hard to do on other operating systems. AIX also runs on high end hardware. Finally, depending on application, you can get a one stop shop from IBM, where you can get an IBM CE on site to fix something regardless if its the hardware, the OS, or the application. Service like this is highly important when a company is depending on the hardware 24/7/365, and downtime means bankruptcy.

Devil's advocate time. Linux has one liability for a lot of companies: Yes, the OS is free, but consultants are not. If a company has a lot of UNIX people, this isn't an issue. However, if a company does not have the experience in house, the cost for consultants to plan, deploy, maintain, update, patch, and upgrade may far outweigh the license costs for Windows.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

They have their place. They suck for employers and current cert holders because they dilute the market and it make it hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. On the other hand, they are really useful for people who are in the middle of their career and suddenly find out that they need some certifications. In my case, I have been employed for the last thirteen years and never unemployed. In the course of my career I have worked in Novell Netware, Microsoft and Linux servers. I also have some rudimentary experience with Cisco IOS (enough to configure an interface, create a config file, etc). I'm currently looking for a job, and despite over a decade of experience, and being currently employed, I don't have any certs. The lack of certs is really killing me in the market.

Re:So?

[JJNess]

Ok, that's kinda funny! Here's your +1, my good AC! I'm with the GP: I only play a few games, but none of them will work well in Linux. I've even grown sick of trying to get WoW to run in wine (granted, I tried on my old laptop with a 945GM chipset, which was notorious for linux incompatibility). I'd like to learn to set up a complete linux shop, but our engineers need AutoCAD software that I doubt would work in linux. Even if it did, we don't have the know-how in the company to set up all our customizations for it in anything but Windows. I'm excited for Windows 7. I hope our company migrates to it soon. XP is started to feel really dated.

Re:So?

[Jamie's Nightmare]

Wrong. In most cases, especially with a newer releases like Windows 7 and Vista, many drivers will already be installed or not require a reboot on install. You do not need to reboot after ever single driver install. You can install the drivers you need, then do one reboot. You do not have to recompile your kernel and you will get higher performance from your hardware with authentic drivers.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

for the legacy windows only apps you use something like virtualbox.

transitioning away from MS can't be done overnight. First get people used to using software like Firefox and Open office. This means a lot of training. Don't just install it and say "use it noob". They will be resistant to that attitude. Do a nice training session showing off some features that aren't available (or they at least aren't aware of) in IE, MS office, etc. The carrot works a lot better than the stick.

Once people get used Openoffice and FF well then linux isn't so scary. Yeah stuff is different, but the apps they use the most are still the same so they can adapt. Once again do some more training, show off some cool things you can do with linux.

Also roll out slowly. Work closely with the few people that you're rolling out to and make sure everything works for them. Find ways to make their jobs easier... if they could have done the same things under windows, don't tell them that haha. Pretty soon the other employees will be jealous that they don't get to use "that system that doesn't get screwed up all the time" and start asking when they're gonna get it. Having a nice shiny theme with the compiz 3d effects reinforces the idea that this is the "new" system. People like "new" things.

Always keep virtualbox there running their old OS so they aren't losing everything. After a while they'll find it tedious to always be switching over to windows to do stuff they can just as easily do in linux. You don't want people to think of linux as that system "I can't do my stuff on". Make sure you work closely with the users and have a lot of training. You see them switching to virtualbox to use notepad? Show them that "Text Editor" can do the same thing plus a lot of other stuff. Put a shortcut to it on the panel so they can find it easily too. They'll be happy because now they can use something pretty and new and its a lot easier to get to.

Some legacy apps aren't going to be able to do anything about. But you just want to minimize the use of windows, not eliminate it. Plus if you only have five or six apps you need windows for, you can maintain a standard virtualbox image for those and (depending on licensing) copy that image to everyone's system. If you have a problem, just delete the image and copy over a new one.

Re:So?

[aGF2c2hleA]

4 years ago that would be right- today it would be an (LINUX) Live Light Up-Pen and you could fully boot and install linux from it without configuring anything outside a GUI. : P

So

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares?

More than enough time...

[AioKits]

...for Creative Labs to get on the ball and release 64bit audio drivers for the X-Fi series that don't cause constant crackling and odd behavior. I swear, past their XP drivers, the drivers for Vista and Win7 are horrid. Least I got a USB headset that works well. The rest of my Win7 RC test machine works wonderfully though, save for the sound, which is driving me insane.

Does anyone else have this issue? Am I insane? Will Dudley Do-Right save Nell Fenwick?

Re:More than enough time...

[Celeste R]

Aside from the history of Creative Labs, I'd suggest you get a new sound card. Not that it's any fun or anything to do so, but it'll be less aggravating in the long run.

Even the poor performance of having an integrated sound system beats a sound system that you don't even turn on, and there's plenty of alternatives.

The history of Creative Labs is anything but creative: they're a vendor. They have other people make their chips, and all they do is brand the product (and maybe, maybe, write a program or two).

If you're looking for decent X-Fi sound, you'll either have to resort to non-Creative drivers (try the chip manufacturer's drivers?) or even hack up your own from a similar product. I've done it before, and so can you!

Even a driver that has only half the capabilities of the X-Fi that works is a plus. Constant crackling and such is the mark of the wrong drivers being used anyways... (at least in my experience from ages ago). Is it so surprising that Creative branded drivers and such that weren't complete?

Re:More than enough time...

[asdf7890]

...for Creative Labs to get on the ball and release 64bit audio drivers for the X-Fi series that don't cause constant crackling and odd behavior. I swear, past their XP drivers, the drivers for Vista and Win7 are horrid. Least I got a USB headset that works well. The rest of my Win7 RC test machine works wonderfully though, save for the sound, which is driving me insane.

I'm told (2nd hand anecdotal evidence: I've not used a Creative sound card in some time) that Creative have been somewhat lacking in the quality driver department for some time, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

If you are having trouble with their Vista drivers after all this time what makes you thing they'll get good quality Win7 drivers released in the next six months?

Re:More than enough time...

[revjtanton]

I am having sound issues as well. 1 out of every 3 times (without fail) I put my Win7 machine to sleep it wakes up w/no audio claiming it cannot find the device. I'm using an Asus motherboard with onboard sound. The C-Media CM6501 Audio Driver is what I would be using, and have tried, but to no avail.

I'm also having problems with disc encryption. I whole disc encrypted my XP partition which is fine, accept when it is mounted in my Win7 partition Win7 can't "fall asleep". This has nothing to do with the sound problems, its just interesting and I thought I'd mention it. I solved both problems by just not putting my Win7 machine to sleep :)

Re:More than enough time...

[AioKits]

Well, they did have 'OMG Win7 drivers download here!' listed under their support. *sigh* I had hoped for too much perhaps. Any suggestions on a good 5.1 card?

Re:More than enough time...

[tlhIngan]

Aside from the history of Creative Labs, I'd suggest you get a new sound card. Not that it's any fun or anything to do so, but it'll be less aggravating in the long run.

Even the poor performance of having an integrated sound system beats a sound system that you don't even turn on, and there's plenty of alternatives.

The history of Creative Labs is anything but creative: they're a vendor. They have other people make their chips, and all they do is brand the product (and maybe, maybe, write a program or two).

If you're looking for decent X-Fi sound, you'll either have to resort to non-Creative drivers (try the chip manufacturer's drivers?) or even hack up your own from a similar product. I've done it before, and so can you!

Even a driver that has only half the capabilities of the X-Fi that works is a plus. Constant crackling and such is the mark of the wrong drivers being used anyways... (at least in my experience from ages ago). Is it so surprising that Creative branded drivers and such that weren't complete?

Actually, Creative Labs makes their own chipsets (they do license them to others, though, but there's only one other third party that actually uses them). The DSP onboard their cards are their design (well, acquired from E-Mu Systems), and while they do buy codec chips from others, those are interfaced to their DSP in proprietary ways. It's also why their earlier PCI boards were very sensitive to what chipset you had on your motherboard - apparently there were fine little differences that could cause the PCI bus to lockup (and thus your computer) on non-Intel chipsets. This started around the Live era, and the Audigys fixed most of the issues, and I believe the X-Fi's finally resolved any issues left.

At best, you get the benefit of open source drivers, but no telling how much they utilize that DSP.

As such, Creative Labs writes their own drivers, which besides several dick moves they did years ago (like charging $20 for drivers and nor providing downloads), have gotten extremely horrible over the years (just when the hardware actually fixed the issues, now it falls on software to reintroduce them!).

Personally, these days I go for a C-Media chipset - if only because they tend to have Dolby Digital Live or DTS Live encoders. My computer is hooked ot my A/V receiver which gives you the nice 5.1 surround audio. Really, more sound cards should have the option to connect their digital outputs to A/V receivers. Though, I am surprised there's so pure software solution (since excepting the nVidia nForce chipsets, the C-Media and others use software DD/DTS encoding) that'll just use the DD/DTS passthrough of modern soundcards, and have a fake 5.1 software-only "soundcard" that'll output via the real soundcard's digital out.

Re:More than enough time...

[fermion]

But MS has said only MS peripherals are guaranteed to work with MS. If they had been this honest about MS Vista, many of the problems would have been avoided.

Now that MS, once primarily an OS developer, is seriously in hardware business, Creative needs to think about a graceful exit strategy from the MS Windows market. Just look at what happened when MS decided to sell software. Previous partners like Lotus and SSI saw what happens when MS want market share.

Re:More than enough time...

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out Asus' Xonar series. They have great Vista compatibility and sound awesome. In the early days, they had some issues with a handful of specific games but those days are over. I have a Xonar DX myself and couldn't be happier. They've even cloned EAX 5 support. To my knowledge, Creative wont license anything higher than EAX 2 to other vendors which is why Asus had to spend the money on cloning it. And as an added bonus, you don't have to deal with all that Alchemy nonsense to get EAX working in Vista. Windows XP 64-bit support is also great.

Re:More than enough time...

[asdfndsagse]

That's the initial reason i switched to Linux. Neither the motherboard sound nor my creative Live soundcard worked at all. On Linux It Just Worked(tm).

Re:More than enough time...

[Keith Russell]

Um, no, the tabloid you linked to said that. Microsoft only said that they have new keyboards, mice, and webcams that leverage some of Win7's snazzy new features.

And why the hell would Creative get out of the PC audio market because Microsoft makes game consoles? That would be like Chrysler throwing in the towel on automobiles because they couldn't compete with Braun razors.

Oh, BTW, Microsoft did an own-brand sound card back in the early 1990s, and it was an also-ran. They left the market and never came back.

Re:More than enough time...

[Lumpy]

turtle beach cards have been orders of magnitude better than creatives best cards for several years now.

The cheapie Montego Bay back in 2005 was far better in every way to creatives best and most expensive card made.

Re:More than enough time...

[linzeal]

I stopped buying Creative products after they refused to support Linux in the 90's. Recently I bought some of their Live Cams because they were on clearance for a vision subsystem and I was disappointed again by their lack of Linux support. Creative has had the attitude that if the the drivers do not work for your operating system why don't you install the normal OS or buy a more expensive product that does support your OS.

Re:More than enough time...

[smash]

Have an X-fi I've run on both 64 bit vista and windows 7 with no issues. I have an intel DP35DP board though, maybe you have slight hardware compatibility issues?

Re:More than enough time...

[Just Some Guy]

...for Creative Labs to get on the ball and release 64bit audio drivers for the X-Fi series that don't cause constant crackling and odd behavior. I swear, past their XP drivers, the drivers for Vista and Win7 are horrid.

Until Microsoft can deliver drivers for popular off-the-shelf peripherals, Windows will never be more than a niche toy for geeks who like to spend more time tinkering with their OS than actually using it.

Re:More than enough time...

[NJRoadfan]

I have had no issues with my X-Fi under the Windows 7 x64 RC. I am using DanielK's X-Fi Support Pack 2.0 (search for it on Creative's Sound Blaster Support forum) for the drivers. The machine has 4GB of RAM, which is known to cause problems under x64 with the X-Fi, but I have had none thus far. Motherboard is Intel X38 based with a Core2Duo CPU FWIW.

There should be less teething problems with the X-Fi drivers this time around since the sound subsystem in Windows 7 is practically unchanged from that in Vista.

Re:More than enough time...

[NJRoadfan]

The Windows Sound System? It was nothing more then a hardware specification. It never really got much use from anyone except for Aztech Labs (the OEM soundcards in mid 90s Packard Bell machines). Why bother when the industry already had a defacto standard to follow? (Soundblaster)

Re:More than enough time...

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you please change the parent to informative, not funny.

When I purchase hardware and it doesn't work under Linux, at least I can fix it through a support network.
The same does not apply to Windows.

AC

Re:More than enough time...

[Celeste R]

It's good to hear that there are drivers out there that are usable. Kudos on the dedication of the community support!

Re:More than enough time...

[genik76]

(...) so I wouldn't hold your breath.

I would imagine it's very difficult to hold someone else's breath.

Re:More than enough time...

[asdf7890]

Any suggestions on a good 5.1 card?

In recent years (since a Creative card refused to work with any driver I tried after I'd upgraded my main desktop machine to XP in ~2005) I've been using the on-board sound support on motherboards and finding it good enough for my not-very-good ears not to care about the difference.

Re:More than enough time...

[asdf7890]

(...) so I wouldn't hold your breath.

I would imagine it's very difficult to hold someone else's breath.

I find a good pillow and the element of surprise work wonders.

Re:More than enough time...

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh.. my 64 bit drivers work great. What distro are you running?

Re:More than enough time...

[j_jorgensen]

...for Creative Labs to get on the ball and release 64bit audio drivers for the X-Fi series that don't cause constant crackling and odd behavior. I swear, past their XP drivers, the drivers for Vista and Win7 are horrid.

Until Microsoft can deliver drivers for popular off-the-shelf peripherals, Windows will never be more than a niche toy for geeks who like to spend more time tinkering with their OS than actually using it.

Oh, right, Microsoft should write all drivers themselves...yees, thats right! hahah :D

Re:More than enough time...

[j_jorgensen]

And Creative, Logitech, Nokia etc dont have support networks? I call this bullshit.

Re:More than enough time...

[Just Some Guy]

Oh, right, Microsoft should write all drivers themselves...yees, thats right! hahah :D

But that's the standard people hold Linux to. Fair's fair: if Linux is expected to support everything in the world itself, then Windows should be expected to as well.

In Before

[Anonymous Coward]

A bunch of idiots saying "Vista SP3 out soon!" even though Windows 7 has tons of new features. It will happen, you know it. Ignorance has no limits.

Re:In Before

[nicolas.kassis]

I hardly has that many new features. It's sort of a clean up that they did. I can hardly find one really crazy awesome feature that would make it that much better than vista feature wise. No, cleaner isn't really what I consider a feature.

Re:In Before

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_7

You need to actually do some research to find out what features are new to an edition of Windows. It doesn't magically appear in your brain.

Re:In Before

[Dr_Barnowl]

Sometimes less, is more.

Re:In Before

[twidarkling]

Frankly, some of the window management techniques are crazy awesome, imo. Move it to the side, and it takes up half the screen? Easy side-by-side comparison! Have a custom desktop that has your system info displayed? Move to the bottom right for a quick look without minimizing or alt-tabbing. Minimize other windows by giving the current one a quick shake? Could be useful if you need more screen space and a bunch of open windows. Maximize by dragging to top, then minimize by moving it away again? Yeah, if I need a quick view of a window, larger than I currently have it set, that will be useful. Just because you don't think there's a crazy awesome feature doesn't mean there's not wicked shit that others are looking forward to.

Re:In Before

[Anonymous Coward]

And XP SP2 had many features added to XP Vanilla and SP1.

Seems to me the key defining point seperating a major version and a service pack is if new themes are available.

Re:In Before

[smash]

Massive kernel improvements are a worthy feature imho. It is far, far more responsive than vista on the same hardware.

Re:In Before

[SpeZek]

One trick I found that I never read in the documentation:
Scaling a window up to the top of the screen makes it stretch out to the whole height of the screen, while keeping the same width.

Re:In Before

[Anonymous Coward]

The key point defining a new version is that the developer decides. That's the way it always has been. Bitching and whining in an attempt to make some points on an invisible scoreboard doesn't really do anything but make you look like a freetard.

Re:In Before

[dadragon]

Move it to the side, and it takes up half the screen? Easy side-by-side comparison!

I discovered that one when playing with "Windows" keys (I'm using a MacBook Pro). Windows-Left moves it to the left side of the screen, Windows-Right moves it to the right side of the screen, Windows-Down minimizes, and Windows-Up maximizes.

Acer actually wrong then?

[Sockatume]

"'We won't be actually selling [Windows 7] a day before the 23rd October"

That statement could not possibly be more precisely wrong, as it turns out. They will actually be selling Windows 7 a day before the 23rd of October.

Re:Acer actually wrong then?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not if they don't sell it on day 1.

Re:Acer actually wrong then?

[BarryJacobsen]

"'We won't be actually selling [Windows 7] a day before the 23rd October" That statement could not possibly be more precisely wrong, as it turns out. They will actually be selling Windows 7 a day before the 23rd of October.

Actually what they said is quite factual. The "23rd October" would have started on roughly 10/01/0023 and there's no way they'd be selling Windows 7 before then. If they meant the "23rd of October" then that's a different case entirely :P

Re:Acer actually wrong then?

[Itninja]

Well, factually, the 23rd October would have come along 23 years after the start of the Julian calendar in 45 BCE, when the month named October was designated. So I think the date would have been more like (using American format) 10/01/-22?

90% of WHAT market???

[Foofoobar]

90% of WHAT market? 80% of server installs are BSD/Linux. 25% of browsers are Firefox. 30% of the databases are MySQL and another 40% are Oracle. 35% of laptop sales go to Apple. They only have %45 of the mobile phone market using their product. So are you talking in generalizations or where you speaking about any specific market that they are supposed to dominate?

Did you also want to point out all those markets that are shrinking. Laptop sales, windows mobile sales (and contracts), government contracts, web browser usage, server usage, corporate sales, office sales, etc etc. Their sales and market share in just about every sector EXCEPT games is shrinking. You can still use your Microsoft computer to play games. :)

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[dave420]

The desktop. Windows currently has about 90% of that market.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Darkness404]

The desktop market. The computer illiterate market. The market most IT people have to deal with at work. The market that gets viruses, etc. Basically, if I interact with people with computers in a non-programming environment you will probably have to use/fix Windows.

It doesn't matter that someone uses Firefox whenever they corrupted a DLL you have to re-install.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Anonymous Coward]

[citation needed]

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus they have a lot more of the server market than the 20% that the OP seems to be crediting them for.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Anonymous Coward]

90% of WHAT market? 80% of server installs are BSD/Linux.

Maybe where YOU work, but not in the real world...

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Foofoobar]

You are thinking SERVER SALES... I'm quoting INSTALLS. Alot of servers that are sold with Windows on it get it removed to get BSD or another flavor of Linux installed; BSD/Debian/Slackware are not options from Dell after all and yet they are still within the top ten of server installs.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[jbeale53]

To quote something, you'd have to have a source. You didn't quote anything. As far as I can tell, you just pulled some numbers out of thin air.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[xenolion]

Yes servers are SOLD with Windows installed giving them the numbers. Sales can be backed up by number when leaving a place. Installs are only backed up by peoples words. I say this cause I 80% of my job is knowing what is running in my company and show those figures to the people on the boards everything has to be in black and white for those people. Gives me a headache.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Anonymous Coward]

You are thinking SERVER SALES... I'm quoting INSTALLS. Alot of servers that are sold with Windows on it get it removed to get BSD or another flavor of Linux installed

I call BS. All the major vendors offer servers without an OS. Who is going to pay the MS Server license cost if they're knowingly going to put something else on it? This argument might hold some water with desktop sales, but in no way does this apply to servers.

Quit pulling numbers out of your ass.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Bryansix]

Servers unlike desktops don't generally get sold with an OS unless you request one.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh. of course. People buy a 25K machine and pay a premium of some other Ks for a Windows OS, when they are going to install FreeBSD or Linux. And they do it while all major vendor offer one or more flavors of linux pre-installed on Servers. Of course, you can't have slackware (because it's fucking a dead end, moron), or debian... and about FreeBSD, you can't have support from it, because there's not a market big enough of people wanting to pay for that support.

But, ok, you want FreeBSD on your 25K server? Just order it without an OS pre-installed. You can buy server grade machines without OS.

But, it all depends on what you call a server.

And it all depends on where you number of Server INSTALL came from.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Foofoobar]

Those that do still get reported and confused for installs. So when people quote Windows server numbers, they are usually quoting sales figures and not actual install numbers. That is the point I am making.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[mholda]

Dude, seriously, nobody buys a server with an OS installed unless that's the OS they want to run on it. They either have their own corporate image for servers, or will install it with their volume license. It's not like desktop Windows where the cost of the OS license is absorbed into the cost of the PC, getting any non-free server OS installed costs enough that it's broken out as a separate item.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Foofoobar]

You seem to be missing what is being said and helping to prove my point at the same time. People who do purchasing are often not the same people doing the maintenance and will often replace Windows installs. And as you pointed out, servers do not always come with OS's. Bu people who report high Windows numbers on servers vs Linux are usually reporting SALES numbers (Windows server sales vs Redhat server sales) which means nothing because when you actually look at the number of server installs of Linux/BSD, they far outnumber Windows.

That was my original point and still is.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[dave562]

If an IT department is savvy enough to be installing Linux on their servers, then why the hell are they purchasing Microsoft licenses that they don't need? I work for an organization that runs Windows Server. We buy HP Proliant hardware. Every server box that we buy from HP comes as a bare metal box that we then load Windows onto. We also have a Proliant running Ubuntu for the web guys to do their dev work on. That came into the building as a bare metal box also.

Where are you getting the numbers to back up your statement that server installs of Linux/BSD far outnumber Windows? If one side is quoting "sales figures", what figures are you quoting? If you're talking about data centers, I'm sure that there are more *nix boxes than Windows boxes. On the other hand, if you're talking small and medium sized businesses (50-500 employees) with in house IT, I think you're going to see significantly more Windows installs.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[Foofoobar]

You've never worked in mixed shops before apparently. You've also never worked in shops where people have changed architectures EVER. You also apparentl;y only work for small mom and pops where purchasing is done by the same guy who does administration and nothing ever changes hands. Must be nice to work in such a small shop with a heterogenous environment. The rest of the world envies you.

Re:90% of WHAT market???

[dave562]

I've never worked in huge enterprises that is for sure. My experience has been in medium sized organizations with budgets between $1-100 million a year. At the top end of the scale, the people doing the purchasing aren't the people doing the administration. No matter what the size of the organization, if the people in charge of purchasing are purchasing licenses they don't need, and spending money they don't need to be spending, then they are incompetent. Are you telling me that people putting Linux on servers in corporate environments are by and large incompetent, and that incompetence is leading them to purchase Windows Server licenses that they don't need, and that those license counts are causing inaccuracies in the metrics?

What qualifies as a "mixed" shop? Netware and Windows? Windows and Linux, with some OSX thrown in? Maybe some VoIP hardware in the mix? In this day and age, are there any shops out there that AREN'T mixed?

Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[spiffydudex]

I tend to agree.

But XP is nearly 8 years old now. Yes I understand that if a software isn't broken, then don't fix it approach. (look how long windows 3.1 lasted) But the fact remains that there is software coming out that has built in native support for newer hardware types and can better take advantage of what the hardware has to offer. XP has 3 service packs that increase the ability for the operating system to fully take advantage of current hardware. Even still, XP64 doesn't fully scale to fully utilize more than a 2 core processor.
I am not advocating that windows 7 will be all glory and shine. But I am merely expressing that as a whole the XP platform is becoming dated and should be replaced to better support emergent hardware.
Before you start going off and saying "With Linux you don't ever see this" Wrong. When XP was released in 2001, the linux market was comprised of Redhat, Debian and Suse. From then, in 2004 Ubuntu was released. Ubuntu was a great leap in consumer level linux desktop enviroments. I would like to see people running the original Ubuntu 4.10 with only hot fixes.

The thing I am getting at, is that no matter how much you hot fix a operating system. After some time the underlying core will have to be rebuilt.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[BlackPignouf]

I happen to be running my 4.10 Warty install just fi

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[spiffydudex]

The thing is, if you were to put that install on a quad-core CPU, your performance increase would not be as great. Where if you wrote an operating system with a core that was built for scaling to multiple CPU.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[Anonymous Coward]

The same kernel (linux 2.6) was used in 4-way servers in 2004 and even before.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[MMC Monster]

The point is that unless you are running a server with multi-year uptime (which means that you are likely running with an unpatched kernel), you are probably not running the same linux kernel as you were in '01, when WinXP was released.

There is always progress in OS design. XP (in retrospect) is a good OS, but it likely cannot be patched to take full advantage of the latest hardware without breaking something. Hence Vista and 7.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[Atriqus]

Heh, so was Warty written by Candlejack or someth

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[MightyMartian]

Huh? Providing the kernel is upgraded (which I'm presuming it is with even the older Ubuntu long-term releases), yes, you will get support for quad core processors. The Linux development model isn't bound by the Microsoft-style "major innovation release" business model, where every four or five years, you rewrite the kernel to support newer hardware, put on some new screen candy and declare it the Next Big Thing.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[Anonymous Coward]

...unless you use gentoo.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[Bryansix]

Vista didn't "take advantage" of anything. It was bloatware which forced people to finally start buying new and faster computers again. I kept my company on XP and so I benefit because I can buy $250 pc's that came out in 2005 and still run everything just fine.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[EdZ]

Forced? I can't think of many pieces of software that work on Vista and not XP. If you have an ancient PIII, then by all means keep XP. If you have any relatively recent multi-core CPU, then the performance difference between XP and Vista is negligible at best, and the stability improvements are welcome.
Does Vista run poorly on older hardware? Yes. Would you complain that blu-ray video doesn't look good on your 14" CRT?

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[The End Of Days]

The anti-Microsoft people would complain if Windows offered blowjobs with blue screens.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[Dunkirk]

Yeah, I just installed the current Ubuntu on some old PIII's I had in my garage. My intention was to sell them as "Facebook machines" for all of $25 in the big, yearly neighborhood garage sale. Unfortunately, it ran as well as I imagine Vista would on those machines, and I gave up hope of selling them. (And I sure wasn't going to put Win98 or 2000 on them!) Now they can just rest as backups for my "servers" that run Gentoo -- with no GUI.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[goltzc]

A bj to go with a BSOD? It's brilliant. I can't think of a better way to get users to test the hell out of a system.

You sir are a genius!

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[master5o1]

(which means that you are likely running with an unpatched kernel)

Patch the Linux Kernel without reboots.

Note: I know very little about the subject of kernel patching.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[geekoid]

look how long windows 3.1 lasted)

2 years.

I said it in 91 and I'm still saying it now: Good Operating systems mature, bad ones age.

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[geekoid]

Yeah, I remember when MS showed up, put a gun to everyone's head and forced them to buy~

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[Bryansix]

Perhaps you didn't hear about "gaming for windows" which really meant "gaming for Vista" and how they didn't permit Direct X 10 to work on XP for no reason other then to sell more copies of Vista?

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[Hucko]

You can't do that, ~ is for sarcasm. Try a different symbol; may I suggest "?

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does everyone forget Slackware?!

Re:Not neccesarily, it is time for a new core.

[Anonymous Coward]

~ is for singing.

Download from BitTorrent?

[Anonymous Coward]

But...but...how soon can I d/l a full cracked ultimate 7 build from isoHunt? Just....asking, of course.

October 22, 2009!

[helbent]

A day that will live... in INFAMY!!

Seriously, expect wholesale user screeching of "Hey, my (fill in the blank) stopped working properly after I upgraded! What gives?" will start shortly thereafter.

SP..

[0ld_d0g]

I'm probably going to wait for Win7 SP before putting it on my main machine.

Re:SP..

[Bryansix]

Actually Windows 7 RC is the most stable RC I've seen in ages. The problem is when Microsoft's marketing wizards get their hands on it and add in a bunch of useless shit and and crippleware into it just before the launch. If the engineers can keep the marketing shitheads at bay long enough to launch then this may be the most stable and mature windows launch ever. If they fail it could be "Vista part deux: All bad things come in sevens".

Am I the only one...

[Evan Meakyl]

... to discover that?

10/22 = 10 2 2
substract 1 to each number: 9 1 1 ... Maybe a subliminal message?

yeah... should stop working and go back home.

Re:Am I the only one...

[Itninja]

That's why numerology is so pervasive. It's just too easy to find connections. Pick any two digit number and any major historical even in the past 100 years and I bet I can find all kinds of 'amazing' connections.

Re:Am I the only one...

[yabos]

Holy shit. And it's June 3 2009 today (06/03). 6 + 3 = 9 and 2 + 0 + 0 + 9 = 11 !!!!!!!

Re:Am I the only one...

[Anonymous Coward]

Subtract 4, add 4 add 4 ... and voila you get 6/66 ... now that's something. Nah ...

Re:Am I the only one...

[stinerman]

It is especially easy to do it with irrational numbers like pi or e. Since they do not terminate and are not periodic, you can find quite literally anything you want in them.

Re:Am I the only one...

[doktaru]

... to discover that?

10/22 = 10 2 2 substract 1 to each number: 9 1 1 ... Maybe a subliminal message?

yeah... should stop working and go back home.

They just wanted to one-up the competition.

Re:Am I the only one...

[genik76]

... to discover that?

10/22 = 10 2 2 substract 1 to each number: 9 1 1 ... Maybe a subliminal message?

yeah... should stop working and go back home.

You do that for living?

Re:Am I the only one...

[g253]

you can find quite literally anything you want in them

Quite true, and there's even a nice little tool to help you do that : http://www.subidiom.com/pi/

I'm sure it will be

[Kevin108]

On Bittorrent and cracked well before it's released.

Re:I'm sure it will be

[moon3]

On the other hand you can get it ahead of schedule from MSDN subscription, if you are a Microsoft's gold or platinum certified partner.

Re:I'm sure it will be

[Kjella]

Yeah well, other software products "go gold" and then ship it off for printing and a prerelease leak of that is rare but windows is different. In addition to go off to CD printing, basicly they ship it to all the manufacturers to test out on all their computer models. That version (called RTM) is essentially the same as the retail version and always leaked on torrents because it's in fairly wide distribution. I doubt Microsoft cares, I mean first to play the latest FPS game or watch the latest blockbuster sure, but "First to use Windows 7" won't get you cred among anyone but mircosofties. I once did it myself, but that was back in december 1999 with the Windows 2000 RTM release because I was having horrible problems with 98/ME. If you haven't found a good platform yet and must have Windows 7, you got bigger issues...

Re:I'm sure it will be

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to guess that a good number of the releases on Bittorrent will bring "bonus" software other than Windows 7. Such as a botnet client.

Then a week later, it will be triggering Windows Activation Technology (WGA's successor). Of course, there will be programs stating they can fix that, but 99% of them will just be Trojans waiting to either install a keylogger (WoW and other MMO info is big money), or just quietly put the machine on a botnet.

Re:I'm sure it will be

[Anonymous Coward]

It will be on Technet noticably early than when it hits stores. This lead time is a good thing because it allows companies time to use the RTM version in a test environment, work on how it interacts with apps and hardware in common use, test features like XP Mode to see if that does fix issues, and get corporate images ready for a rollout.

Of course, there will be leaks. However, businesses won't be using pirated copies because the BSA would render them into component atoms. Individuals will get their hands on a copy regardless.

Thanks for the warning..

[Anonymous Coward]

at least I know when the next Black Thursday is.

Actually...

[IANAAC]

a couple of years ago I had the pleasure of consulting in a office that only had Linux for their workers, save for the salespeople.

They used LTSP and tftp to boot the image off the server, essentially making the desktops terminals.

If I were setting up an office, that would be the way I would go. Everything is centralized and easily backed up.

It is an office environment, after all. The users probably complained the first month, then got over it and did their work.

I'm very skeptical.

[Futurepower(R)]

You said, "In essence, from our testing it's doing pretty well."

I'm very skeptical. Our October 22, 2011 adoption date may be delayed. Let everyone else have the hassles, as they did with Vista and Windows ME, and several versions of DOS. Bringing out unfinished versions has been very profitable for Microsoft.

Windows XP had very serious, but not obvious, problems until SP2.

Windows 7 is just another version of Windows NT, but Microsoft calls it an entirely new operating system, and most people accept that.

Every new version of Windows has some features that require a lot more computing power. That is because, apparently, the hardware manufacturers are Microsoft's true customers, and they want everyone to be required to buy new hardware.

Some people have been claiming that "critical updates" to Windows XP have caused it to be slower. What has been your experience?

Freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

The only inherent benefit GNU/Linux has is it's Freedom. And I use it for that Freedom, it is the one distinguishing quality between it and competitors.

I strongly recommend reading Free Software, Free Society (PDF) before you consider switching to a proprietary system.

It's the Apps not the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

OS will be a distant memory in about 5 years. The Applications that people develop need a huge overhaul. Apps other than Graphic/CAD apps don't use multicores or 64bit fully as it is supposed to be done.The areas that the OS can improve on is bootup. I know there are things out there now that help with bootup, but I should turn on a windows PC from cold and the OS should be ready in less than 10 seconds. That is what should be enhanced by MS. Other things should be jailed or built-into an app. With virtualization, hardware is meaningless so thusly is the OS.

Wow

[93 Escort Wagon]

Microsoft has officially announced Windows 7 will be generally available on October 22nd

Boy, I think that was the loudest collective yawn I've heard in years!

Finally the time

[david_thornley]

And it will finally be time to argue definitively how fast and slick Windows 7 is. I'm tired of people saying "Windows 7 is great!" when it isn't even out yet.

Re:Finally the time

[director_mr]

And it will finally be time to argue definitively how fast and slick Windows 7 is. I'm tired of people saying "Windows 7 is great!" when it isn't even out yet.

You are tired of people talking about how nice a release candidate is? Perhaps you should stop reading about operating systems. Tech websites talk about OS's all the time before they release. That's a major part of what they do. Its been this way for 10 years at least. Not just about Microsoft either. They talk about Mac OS's, Linux OS's, Microsoft OS's and more. If you don't like hearing about Operating Systems, and what people think about them, perhaps you are on the wrong site by accident or something.

Re:Finally the time

[david_thornley]

No, I'm fine with hearing how good a RC or beta is. I'm interested in what's going to be in Ubuntu 9.10 and Snow Leopard, and I'm going to be using Windows 7 sometime.

What bothered me was people talking about how good Windows 7 was. Not how good the beta was, or the release candidate, but the operating system, and not about how promising it looked either. As if it was guaranteed to be so much better than Vista or even XP. Right now, nobody outside Microsoft knows what the real thing is going to be like, and I've been having a suspicious feeling that the W7 beta wasn't so much an honest beta as a demo.

Re:Finally the time

[director_mr]

I guess I would have to disagree with you then. Windows 7 feels faster than vista, and has a lot of features I like way better than XP, and somewhat better than Vista. When they allow you to install an RC on your computer and use it, and it is stable and fast, that seems about as honest a beta or RC as you can have. I don't know what would make you think Windows 7 is a "demo". You think Microsoft will intentionally break their code now? I somehow don't think they will.

Re:Finally the time

[david_thornley]

No, Windows 7 does not feel anything to you. The RC does. Nor have I any idea why you think stability or speed implies honesty in a beta or RC.

The reason I've been wondering if W7 is a bit of a rigged demo is that it would be so convenient for Microsoft to have W7 pre-release impressing people. They could well be waiting for the release to implement DRM or something obnoxious.

Timezone

[Anonymous Coward]

"Acer executives in Europe"

When it's the 22nd in United States, it's already the 23rd in Europe.

Cool

[indre1]

I expect to see Windows 7 on Vista's Windows update by the end of October!

Re:Cool

[T-Bone-T]

Why? It isn't part of Vista(I'm running Vista SP2, if that's what you are hinting at). It is a different OS. It shares much of the code and appearence with Vista but it behaves very differently.

I agree w/ you.

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

Once Vista64 is set up, it's Effing fast!

I've never been happier w/ a computer. I can alt-tab between multiple 3d apps in seconds! You know hardcore apps like UT3, WoW, and TF2!

8')

Re:I agree w/ you.

[smash]

Download the RC for 7, and see what "effing fast" really means. I've used vista since march 07, Windows 7 RC is quite a bit snappier (upgraded my Vista 64 install to Win7 on the same hardware; the difference is quite noticeable).

Payroll and Accounts package....

[Anonymous Coward]

We have several hundred clients that think this is suitable...

http://www.osas.com/

Runs on Windows, MAC, Linux, Unix, highly customizable, etc. Has issues, but what software package does not?

Great Disappointment of 1844

[Anonymous Coward]

October 22 is the anniversary of the Great Disappointment of 1844. Read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment

October 22 is 10-22

[xactuary]

In police radio code, a 10-22 means to disregard the last assignment. Microsoft wants me to disregard Vista? Roger that.

I only have to wait 5 months!

[gubers33]

I only have to wait 5 months for an amazing new operating system filled with new bugs... I mean FEATURES. I can't wait!