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The Commodore 64 vs. the iPhone 3G S

Posted by timothy on from the next-week-chocolate-torte-vs.-charles-manson dept.

Harry writes "The unfortunate news about Apple rejecting a Commodore 64 emulator from the iPhone App Store inspired me to compare the C64 to the new iPhone 3G S, in more detail than any rational person is likely to compare them, ever again. If nothing else, it's a snapshot of just how far technology has come since the C64's release in August of 1982."

28 of 238 comments (clear)

  1. Oh well... by Luc1fel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Then it's settled. I'm getting a Commodore instead.

  2. The developers are spreading FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's quite clear what Apple approved was selling individual C64 games or apps individually that used an emulator underneath. Not a full fledged emulator that would let you program your own games, or play whatever C64 software you have.

    Apple probably read their website and realized their goal was quite different then what they were told earlier.

    It's quite clear that an emulator is OK as long as it can only run the app sold with it, and not arbitrary code.

    1. Re:The developers are spreading FUD by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do wonder about Apple's policy there. Ostensibly, it's to stop you running an unapproved app by running it in an emulator, but they're perfectly happy to approve apps which pull down arbitrary and equally unapproved content from the web.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:The developers are spreading FUD by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative
      It's not FUD if it's true. Are you even reading what you're writing?

      It's quite clear that an emulator is OK as long as it can only run the app sold with it, and not arbitrary code.

      It's okay to use this device that you've bought for running Apple-approved software, but not for running arbitrary code. That's not FUD, it's Apple's policy. If you're happy with a device that has this kind of restriction, then that's great, enjoy yourself.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:The developers are spreading FUD by jandrese · · Score: 4, Funny

      Should I be relieved that I have no idea what the heck "zebu porn" is?

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    4. Re:The developers are spreading FUD by mini+me · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's quite clear that an emulator is OK as long as it can only run the app sold with it, and not arbitrary code.

      Except it's not clear. There's a Brainfuck interpreter, as well as a Z-machine interpreter. Both execute arbitrary code which can be downloaded from a remote source, or entered right on the device itself.

  3. Nice Shapshot! by jchawk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Good overview of the two technologies.

    One point of correction the iPhone has successful run Apache so it can be used as a web server (for what it's worth). Here's a related article -

    http://www.modmyi.com/forums/native-iphone-ipod-touch-app-launches/2665-apache-iphone-how-cool.html

    1. Re:Nice Shapshot! by jandrese · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Last time someone posted it the thing held up remarkably well because the author cheated a bit and made his webserver completely stateless, making the only limitation the speed of the network interface and processor. The site would take a long time to respond, but it never crashed the way most webservers (or, more often, their attached databases) do when slammed with requests.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
  4. 3D acceleration is just the new 2D acceleration by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Informative

    MOS Technology VIC-II; no 3D capability

    True, but at the time, 2D hardware features were as much a bullet-point as 3D acceleration today, and the C64 had some quite impressive 2D tricks up its sleeve.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  5. C64 didn't use a 6502 by Mprx · · Score: 4, Informative

    It used a 6510, which is a modified version of the 6502 with an extra IO port.

    1. Re:C64 didn't use a 6502 by bobintetley · · Score: 3, Informative

      It also ran at half the clock speed of the 6502 (6502 = 2Mhz, 6510 = 1Mhz). I used to code stuff on the C64 demo scene. What I really miss nowadays is the fact that it was the last time I fully knew all of the internals of a machine I was coding for.

  6. Price comparison by furby076 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The iPhone 3G S has 4,000 times the RAM (256MB) for one-third the price (with an AT&T contract)

    Your price comparison is not really good. You should compare an uncontracted iphone price (500 or 600) to that of a c64. The contract lock is worth money - especially considering how much you buy to maintain your service. THen again you get more from the contract (phone service, access to the internet, etc). So a better comparison is the straight phone price to the c64 price.

    --

    I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
    1. Re:Price comparison by jeffmeden · · Score: 5, Funny

      The iPhone 3G S has 4,000 times the RAM (256MB) for one-third the price (with an AT&T contract)

      Your price comparison is not really good. You should compare an uncontracted iphone price (500 or 600) to that of a c64. The contract lock is worth money - especially considering how much you buy to maintain your service. THen again you get more from the contract (phone service, access to the internet, etc). So a better comparison is the straight phone price to the c64 price.

      Don't forget to correct for 27 years of inflation! Incidentally, this brings the C64 price to $1,318.59. Beat that, Apple Elitists.

  7. Progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At least this time Apple rejected something that was actually forbidden by the app store's rules.

  8. Re:Missing categories... by blinking_at · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Attached Physical Keyboard

  9. Unfair comparison -- didn't include FREEDOM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They forgot to include FREEDOM. You were free on the C64, no one could stop you from making applications, running them and distributing them freely to friends, who in turn, without big brother watching, could distribute your creations as well. You're not even allowed ot run a python interpreter on the iphone.

    And don't tell me about jailbreaking, jailbreaking is a DMCA violation and if AT&T catches you, you will be kicked off their network. You don't have control of your device, with the C64 you did.

    1. Re:Unfair comparison -- didn't include FREEDOM by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Calm down.
      I agree not only could you write any code you wanted for free but Commodore included the scematics of the C-64! At least they did with mine but I had an early one.
      Not only that people disassembled the kernel and wrote books that included the listing and nobody sent them a take down notice!
      That was simpler time full of Compute and Byte magazine and taking your best girl to see ET and WarGames.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  10. The only comparison that matters by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only comparison that matters is you could write and run your own code on the C64 and you cannot on the iPhone.

  11. You *can* write & run your own code on the iPh by wurp · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think you have to buy the development key ($99) to deploy to a physical phone, but you can write whatever you like and deploy it to your phone. You can deploy to as many as 50 different phones without going through the app store or buying a site license.

    I don't remember for sure - you might even be able to deploy to a phone that's physically connected to your Mac without paying anything.

    I agree that you're nowhere near as free on the iPhone as we were on the C64, but it's just wrong to say that we can't run any code we like on our phone.

    I think it's also worth pointing out that there are huge potential exploits on a phone that weren't there on a C64. E.g. I could distribute a free app that eventually calls a 1-900 number I own, with no modem sticking out the back for you to disconnect.

    I have written and distributed an iPhone app (and written C64 apps), so I'm not just spouting BS.

  12. Price is wrong by dzfoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article compares the current price of the iPhone with the introductory price of the C=64. A few years in (circa 1984), you could buy a C=64 from K-mart at $90.00 USD. This was convenience, since the cheap power supply tended to burn up and die, and it was sometimes easier and cheaper to just buy a replacement machine. I went through three of the things back then!

          -dZ.

    --
    Carol vs. Ghost
    ...Can you save Christmas?
  13. You think your Commodore 64 is really neat-o? by Tetsujin · · Score: 4, Funny

    What kinda chip you got in there, a Dorito?

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  14. Re:Flash and Java by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 3, Insightful

    isn't the C64 emulator a sandbox?

    ActionScript and Java run in a sandbox, but they're rejected too.

    Javascript or Brainfuck also run arbitrary code in a sandbox, but they're not rejected.

    Welcome to the topsy-turvy world of the Apple app store, where any app could be removed at any time, because they could all be interpretted as infringing some part of the SDK rules.

  15. Apple][e by Erik+Greenwald · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if an emulator for the apple 2 series would be approved?

  16. Re:Couldn't find the size? by wjsteele · · Score: 3, Funny

    1820g... 404 mm * 216mm * 75mm

    And how does that exactly relate to size? It just looks like a bunch of gibberish mixed with random numbers to my imperialist eyes.!!!

    I want pounds and inches you insensitive clod!!!

    Bill

    --
    It's my Sig and you can't have it. Mine! All Mine!
  17. Re:Units... sigh. by atomic-penguin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well if you really want to nitpick, the 300 bits per second should be 300 baud. But hey, I guess all nitpickers aren't perfect.

    --
    /^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
  18. Re:Couldn't find the size? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Funny

    And how does that exactly relate to size? It just looks like a bunch of gibberish mixed with random numbers to my imperialist eyes.!!!

    I want pounds and inches you insensitive clod!!!

    You don't recognize the traditional Imperial unit of length, the Manchester mule? Defined in 1621 as the length of the Duke of Manchester's prize mule, Jebediah, and equal to exactly 29 handspans, it's the only unit of length a gentleman should use.

    Now I should say that at 404mm long, and at a total of 1820 greasemonkeys in weight, that this Commodore 64 is quite the small electronic computer!

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  19. 10000 apps? I don't think so. by Perseid · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.gamebase64.com/ This database has 20000 games. Those are just the ones they've found and it doesn't even include actual applications, only games. The total number of programs for the C-64 is probably far more than 50000.

  20. put it on Android by Maarek+Stele · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apple rejects anything they think will turn them away from the phone's operation or make changes to it.

    PUT IT ON ANDROID and WM. You Won't be rejected there.

    No Flash
    No competitive Browsers
    No File Exploring
    No downloading to the phone

    and people say I should get an iPhone, there's a couple of reasons NOT to.

    --
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss