Slashdot Mirror
UK ISP Disconnects Customers For File Sharing
think_nix writes "Karoo, an ISP in Hull, in the UK, is disconnecting subscribers without warning if they file-share, or are even suspected of file-sharing. Karoo is the only ISP in the area. Copyright owners are working with the ISP helping them identify and report suspected filesharers using their services. In order to get service restored, subscribers have to go to Karoo's office and sign a form admitting guilt and promising not to do it again. The article states that some subscribers have had their access cut off for more than two years." Update: 07/24 16:29 GMT by KD : The Register is reporting that Karoo has relented and has changed its policy. A spokesman said: "It is evident that we have been exceeding the expectation of copyright owners..."
I guess they don't know about file caching...
Sock Puppets: damn_registrars=pudge_confirmer=jimmy_slimmy=raiigunner=cml4524=a_klavan=red4men=ronpaulisanidiot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_upon_Hull#Telephone_system
Get the IP address of the Karoo president, and denounce him to the Karoo tech as the originator of suspicious copyrighted file sharing. Hilarity ensues.
I can't understand that, if theirs only one ISP it should be a requirement to maintain at least basic service. Considering how much government business is moving online, this is now a requirement to function.
You must have missed the "Karoo is the only ISP in the area" part.
And I presume the 3G coverage map hit /. the other week, so that's a bit of a no-no for a Hull resident, too.
The UK isn't like the U.S.
From TFS: Karoo is the only ISP in the area.
It isn't simply a matter of moving from one ISP to another. The UK is very big, so local monopolies are very common. These victims have no recourse.
There is no other ISP.
Wow, that really is a bad analogy (and long one too)!
Hope they don't patch World of Warcraft on Tuesdays... Oh Noes, file sharing...
just move it to another ISP, once they have no business left they would wisen up
(From the article)
'Karoo, the only ISP in the area ....'
Unfortunately the only other choice for these people is mobile broadband.
Nice reading comprehension.
> Karoo is the only ISP in the area.
How do they switch when there is only one choice.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Karoo, an ISP in Hull, in the UK, is disconnecting subscribers without warning if they file-share, or are even suspected of file-sharing. Karoo is the only ISP in the area.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
You must have missed the "Karoo is the only ISP in the area" part.
That's the part that really stinks. I'd say there's a nice opportunity for a competing ISP here.
Or you could try to make a comment that is interesting, insightful, and/or informative like everyone else who wants to maintain their karma. It isn't really that hard, and that goes for everyone looking to get the karma bonus. The biggest thing is to be patient and wait until you have something interesting to contribute, rather than feeling like you need to comment at every opportunity.
CableOne has disconnected me twice on two different connections. Apparently they get told from companies like NBC that I downloaded something illegal. They say that we are protected by them shutting off my internet. Has this happened to anyone else?!
What struck me about this whole thing is the alleged file-sharer has to sign a document admitting guilt and then the promise that they wouldn't do it again.
Seems awfully heavy handed to me, not to mention legally tricky for those who are accused. What's to say that by signing that document, they won't open themselves up to legal motions by the multinational entertainment companies.
Actually it sounds like the UK is very much like the US. The US is much larger then the UK and in areas where there aren't a lot of people, there are also local monopolies.
I'm not 100% on this yet. But I am led to believe that Karoo is the only ISP in the area. Did anyone else pick up on that?
I don't understand why ISPs want to be in the business of policing their users: it costs money to do that. It also costs them lost revenue for cutting off users. Why don't the ISPs just say "It's not our problem" to the copyright holders presumably just as the Postal Service would say if people were sending copyrighted documents, CDs, or DVDs through the mail.
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
In the U.S., you typically have both the cable company and the phone company vying for Internet business.
You'd have to go pretty far out to find an area that only had dial-up, much less only one dial-up ISP in the area.
The summary is incorrect. They still have the option to use dialup from some other company, or satellite.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
"or are even suspected of file-sharing."
That's a blatant infringement on one's human rights, which states that everyone is entitled to a fair trial.
The ISP could get into a lot of shit over that alone.
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
At first I thought they would disconnect me for sharing ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso . Then when the summary mentioned copyright owners, I wasn't so sure. Then the summary mentioned "admitting guilt", what guilt?
Apparently "kangaroo court" is now "karoo court"...
Shit, son, Slashdot is really getting its pwn on today. It's not even noon!
The UK isn't like the U.S..... The UK is very big, so local monopolies are very common.
Yeah I know. The U.S. is so small. ;-)
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Strange, at the very least you'd expect BT (the company that some government failed to de-nationalise properly) to have some operations in the area. Anyone know a reason why Karoo is the only option there?
"Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
"The UK is very big, so local monopolies are very common" - entirely wrong, the UK is rather small and local monopolies are rare. In fact this is the first one in the UK I've heard about.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Can anybody in the UK shed some light on whether this practise is even legal? How can an ISP act as a judge, jury and executioner especially given that they have spotty evidence at best?
This space left intentionally blank.
The practice of creating polyopolies (local monopolies) started in the UK about the time people figured out how to build power looms.
There should be a similarly rich history of how the English dealt with the problem.
--dave (he who knows not history is doomed to repeat it) c-b
davecb@spamcop.net
The UK is the size of one US state. It's minuscule.
The whole area is tiny with lots of people crammed in. That's why trains work so well in Europe, lots of points of interests within a small area.
AFAIK it's pretty much a Hull only thing, back when the various phone systems in the UK vere taken over by the General Post Office (who's phone division became BT), Hull's system was the only one to stay seperate, originally run by the local council, and now by Kingston Communications (who own Karoo). I don't think any other area in the UK has the same situation, and with BT exchanges you usually have a fair number of broadband ISP choices.
10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
20 GOTO 10
DON'T DO IT !!
Swear... SWEAR !!
From the Summary:
"The article states that some subscribers have had their access cut off for more than two years." WRONG.
From the Article:
"The terms and conditions Karoo enforce are not new - the BBC has spoken to customers whose accounts were suspended over two years ago." In actuality, this only means that the enforcement of this policy has been in use for over two years, not that actual customers have been without internet access for that time duration.
In the U.S., you typically have both the cable company and the phone company vying for Internet business.
WTF are you basing this on? DSL only ranges about 15,000 to 18,000 feet from the DSLAM. There are huge swaths of land that don't receive DSL service, even in fairly suburban areas. The telco can install remote DSLAMs if they want to but many don't make the effort because there aren't enough potential customers in the area to justify the expense.
There are many areas where the cableco is your only choice. Worse, the cableco knows this. In my area you can usually get Time Warner to lower your rate if you threaten to move to DSL -- but if you live in an area where DSL isn't an option they refuse any sort of rate deal because they know they have you by the balls.
You are also discounting the remote areas that have DSL service but are stuck with slow service because of the distance and/or provider policy. I can get DSL where I live -- at a whooping 1.5mbit/s for the same price that Time Warner can deliver 8.0mbit/s. 1.5 isn't really enough to watch decent quality video. So I'm stuck with Time Warner even though DSL is an option.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
A quirk of history. BT isn't the provider of phone infrastructure in Hull - Kingston Communications is. It started out as a municipally run network, which wasn't unusual in the early 1900's, but all the other municipal networks in the UK were eventually subsumed into the Post Office, from which BT was created.
"just move it to another ISP"
-1, overrated.
But if I owned a ISP in a neighboring community I know where my next expansion would be.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
well, guilty actually, since there doesn't seem to be any provision for proving your innocence. So, guilty until admitted guilty.
Actually this is likely the ONLY area in the UK where this is the case. All other parts of the UK are served by BT, who are under obligation to provide equal access to their lines for competing broadband providers.
Typically, maybe, but this situation isn't typical either. In my area of the US, there is a town of 20,000 with Cable and no DSL. In another nearby town of 671 people, where great DSL is available. The bigger town has a national phone company as its carrier.
http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10013286o-2000331761b,00.htm
so move along, there is nothing to see.
The UK was so big in 1910, that the sun never set in the empire. In the last years, the UK politics seem so dim that many people ask themselves if the sun now even glimpses on the remaining isles.
I for one mark all these stories with a "crazykingdom" tag. Not because of the Brits, but because of their politics and their leaders. They hit rock bottom a decade ago but kept on digging. Really, a megalomaniac ISP disconnecting suspected filesharers at the first hint of trouble, is among the least of Britains problems. It's just a symptom of the entire ruling caste, with iron hand to the Britons on one side, with ever forgiving grace to all other sides.
I'm not a Brit, but I feel so sorry for you but I'm thankful that you will serve as a warning example to the rest of The "Free" West, where everyone is free to pay taxes or milk social security, but shut the hell up on any other issues.
At least according to our local newspaper
It's not like internet access is expensive or hard to get in Hull. Internet is peanuts in and around London. Why persecuted users wouldn't move on to a friendlier ISP without this harsh tone I don't know. This ISP looks like they are hard up for cash and can't pay for bandwidth and/or to stupid to install some traffic management, or run by some blind do-gooders. Either way, they'll loose. Plenty more ISP's to sign up with who don't harass their customers like that. If it were me, I'd tell Karoo to kram it sideways.
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
It is because since 1902, Kingston-upon-Hull has had its own local monopoly. It's one of those weird local wrinkles like Berwick-on-Tweed still being at war with Germany. Hull's telecoms firm has traditionally been surprisingly good but evidently they are now scared of being sued out of existence.
How about going to their office en masse and burning it down?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I live pretty near hull, and am always horrified by the fact they can only access the internet via one ISP (who throttle badly, port block, along with this). It is enough (well, along with Hull being a horrible place) to stop me ever even thinking of living there.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
The problem is he often makes early/first posts with slanted views that do not accurately reflect the information presented. Some of them are convincing and he gets upvoted but it spreads misinformation.
Earlier today he posted this: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1313945&cid=28806481
The flaw lies in the implementation of the HTTPD used for router's Admin Web GUI. Which is a custom rewrite by Brainslayer & the DD-WRT team.
A brief history of DD-WRT (warning: it's biased against the project): http://www.bitsum.com/about-ddwrt.htm
He complains of "the dangers of homogeny" when the software bug was from a hobbyist-type build of a custom firmware.
Then he closes with the following statement: "Just because we love Linux doesn't mean that we should sacrifice the entire ecosystem to that love. We need to nurture other implementations to prevent this type of virus from wiping out our entire networking infrastructure."
While melodramatic, he's misrepresenting the actual number of DD-WRT users. The subset of router enthusiasts with DD-WRT is smaller compared to those who use other 3rd party firmwares (OpenWRT, Tomato, etc available on Broadcom or Atheros chipsets) and those who never bother to reflash their routers at all or have routers that are unsupported by DD-WRT.
For the millionth time, file sharing is not stealing. Shouting the same lie from your noise hole over and over again will never make it true.
Content creators are not owed a living. The quality of the vast majority of content is low, and the price is too high. However, content creators have got it into their heads they deserve massive remuneration for very little, low quality, work. They are trying to have the government use force to squeeze money out of consumers, in a manner little different from racketeering.
They will lose, if only because the two sides of this debate are divided by age, with the young respecting the freedom of information flow, and the old desperate to hang onto the economic privileges they lose.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Is the ISP legally obliged to ensure its users don't do illegal things? If so, I'd have expected more ISPs to run similar operations.
On the contrary, surely it is entirely acceptable that those people making legitimate use of your network costs you some of the money you charge them for that use? (that cost being that which you spend on determining whether this suspected thief is actually thieving)
This is fine. And I wish ISPs would just say that they're overselling their resources rather than pretending that anyone who wants access to the services they thought they signed up to is stealing music.
One point of contention in the article is that these people are getting cut off on nothing more than an assumption that they must be pirating stuff since they're using P2P. This is like arresting people leaving hardware shops with crowbars on the grounds that they're going to burgle houses.
My ISP clearly states in their policy that one should not use their line for illegal activities. And under their punishments is a disconnection. I've had a disconnection for a few days five years ago (for file sharing). If I were to repeat it again and I'm facing a week and then a full disconnection. Immediately disconnecting the line on the first crime seems like bad business to me. It's one customer who won't be paying his monthly bill!
Um no I can point you at many MANY Suburban and Urban areas that have only 1 high speed internet provider.
Some places the telco is the only choice, others the telco ignored their 60 year old infrastructure and only choice is the single cable company.
High speed internet service is a Huge monopoly in many areas.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Kingston Communications is to drop its hardline approach of immediately cutting the Internet connection of people caught illegally downloading films and music.
As Hull resident and Karoo broadband customer, I can tell you things are never as simple as they appear. The people who get cut off are those that are saturating their bandwidth, and have ignored multiple warnings, first by email and then by letter. I know lots of people file sharing on a limited basis that have never been cut off. Though a few saturating their bandwidth have received warning email and letters.
You just begged for even lower karma. You know your post is offtopic, but you posted it anyway. I see you have no journals; the journals are there for exactly this kind of post. Or anything at all you want to write.
You can even write about dope or hookers or mod points. The last journal I posted was about the first moon landing.
Some other comments to your comment give a step-by-step to getting your karma back.
Free Martian Whores!
All other parts of the UK are served by BT
I hope BitTorrent becomes an ISP in my area too!
My webcomic
This must be a way of making people respond to your comment, resulting in offtopic mods for them too which will make others be in the same bucket as you. It reminds me of a quote "If only people would desire happiness for themselves more than sadness for others, the world would be a better place".
Disclaimer: I currently have no mod points and as you can see my karma is pretty good, so yeah, burn it down...
ics
i think copyright is a dead concept
but in a world where genocides and starvation and slavery still occur, to speak about "human rights" about internet access is overly pompous
don't ratchet your language up on concerns of, frankly, nonimportant issues to the basics of human dignity
i mean we could also call what karoo is doing "terrorism"
but its the same overuse of terminology meant for far more dire situations than anything remotely touching this case
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Your problem is you go for the joke exclusively. I like to go for the joke quite a bit myself, but you have to sprinkle in some actually worthwhile (or at least karma whoring) posts more often, or your starting score will render you invisible to the vast majority of Slashdot readers. Building up karma on this site is easy. You already know that the majority of mod points are spent early in threads, so if you're looking to rebuild your karma, post something on-topic early in the thread that you know will be modded up. For extra points, start your post with "I know I'll be modded down for this" and then post something that's clearly in line with the prevailing Slashdot groupthink.
Example for this thread:
I know I'll be modded down for this, but it seems to me these ISPs need to stop bowing down to the **AA and start doing what's best for their customers. Why should I be cut off because I want to use bittorrent to download the latest Ubuntu release? This is why we need to support Net Neutrality!
Had you made that the first post instead of what you posted, you would have been guaranteed a +5, Insightful and would be well on your way to re-earning that karma bonus.
Join us next week when we'll discuss how to craft a proper car analogy on Slashdot in order to hit the coveted trifecta of vaguely on-topic, completely nonsensical, and +5 moderated.
Acutally local telecoms monopolies are very, very rare. Unique to Hull, in fact.
"IP2P is used exclusively to STEAL"
Wrong. True, a lot of people use it to steal. That's unfortunate. But there *are* legitimate uses of P2P technologies. I've used BitTorrent to download perfectly legal ISO's of Linux distros (Ubuntu provides links to the torrent right on the Ubuntu website, though you do have to hunt a little bit to find them). Same with OpenOffice.org. IIRC, Fedora also provides a torrent of the Fedora ISOs.
There was an HD 'tv' show, a couple years ago, called MariposaHD. The producers of the show distribute it exclusively by BitTorrent (it's still available if you care to check it out - it's mostly eye candy - some guys going to different South/Central American countries and taking HD footage of scenery and chicks - lots of chicks lol). The reason I mention it, is that I think there is real potential, in the future, for using P2P technologies to legally distribute HD content. I'd like to see more online video services perhaps adopt more P2P technologies - there's no reason a for-profit company couldn't potentially use P2P to increase their market reach and profitability.
Blizzard uses BitTorrent to push out updates for World of Warcraft.
There is a LOT of potential for P2P data distribution to be used both legally and productively. Unfortunately, so many people have the mindset you do, that they fail to realize the potential of P2P. It can dramatically reduce an online publishers costs in terms of how much bandwidth they have to buy in order to provide content to huge numbers of customers. It scales well with demand (the more people downloading in a P2P network, particularly with BitTorrent, but other protocols as well, the more other peers there are to download from).
The idea that BAG doesn't already know all those tricks is kind of an insult.
What's funny is the very low-key moderation war going on here. I refresh the page to get updated comments and he's bounced between -1 and 1 on almost every refresh. Clearly there are some moderators who don't like this kind of post, but many others who don't mind pumping it up.
Too bad it wreaks havoc on karma to have it bounce up and down like that. From what I can tell, negative mods carry far heavier weight than positive ones.
Interesting? Insightful? Informative?
From BadAnalogyGuy? His sole purpose is to give us witty analogies, which, true to his name, are terrible – although it sometimes requires a bit of inspection to find what is so glaringly wrong (thus their brilliance: what should be glaringly obvious is not always so obvious at first). They're puzzles... brain teasers... just like his post here. His insight lies not in his straightforward posts, but in the bad analogies themselves!
Asking for interesting, insightful, or informative posts from BadAnalogyGuy would be like asking for apples from a peach tree. Now, I like apples, and don't get me wrong, I like peaches, too. But apples from a peach tree? Come on. You get apples from apple trees.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
If the quality of the content was so low, there would be no consumers of said content to squeeze money from.
Insert wit here.
You got bit by a troll from feeding it. Wasn't it obvious?
It appears all this bad publicity has caused them to reconsider: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/24/karoo_p2p_policy_change/
~comfortably numb~
He should be okay as long as people don't mod him funny. You get modded funny, you get a +1 with no karma impact, but it allows more downmods (which all affect karma) before you hit the -1 floor. That can tank karma in a hurry.
"For the millionth time, file sharing is stealing. Shouting the same lie from your noise hole over and over again will never make it true."
There, I fixed it for you.
"Content creators are not owed a living."
Just like factory workers, cops, teachers, doctors, engineers, etc aren't owed a living, right?
"The quality of the vast majority of content is low, and the price is too high."
If it's so low, why are you downloading it? If it's so low, surely you can live without it? If I don't like the quality of goods at a particular store, that doesn't give me the right to steal there stuff. I just won't shop there. There's other stores, with better goods at more reasonable prices. Is it ok to steal luxury cars and goods because the prices are too high?
If you think the price is too high, just move on. Don't buy their music/movie, but don't steal it either. That's called *negotiation*. I know people think that in modern society, the concept of negotiating price is dead. It's not completely - it just works different. You might not *individually* negotatiate prices on a customer by customer basis. But, as a business, if too few people are buying your product/service, you lower the price and/or increase the quality until people are buying in sufficient volume.
"They will lose, if only because the two sides of this debate are divided by age, with the young respecting the freedom of information flow, and the old desperate to hang onto the economic privileges they lose."
Its more like the young have no patience - they want everything *NOW*, and if they can't afford it, they'll just take it; if you wait, generally the prices of anything goes down. Particularly if the quality is low - how many DVDs are in bargain bins for $3-5 in stores all over the country, because they will only sell at that price? The market works, prices on both good and bad things generally comes down over time.
Yes, there are exceptions occasionally, but those exceptions are usually things that are very popular and have gone out of print/publication (like, for example, trying to find a copy of Final Fantasy 7 means you will probably be paying more than the original price of the game when it was released, because Square stopped selling it, and there are fewer licensed copies in the market than people who want to buy it, but most things aren't collectors items).
Since when does the 'fair trial' clause extend to the private sector? I can form an opinion of you without ever granting you a 'fair trial'.
Since certain services provided by the private sector became regulated as public utilities.
according to this independent ratings site.
"I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
There is no other ISP.
Yes there are. One can switch to dial-up or move house.
</devils-advocate>
It's stated that a user must sign an admission of guilt before reconnecting service, I don't see how that isn't a breach of due process. I'm not a lawyer or an expert, but could one logically conclude that this business is using it's unique position of power to force users to wave their right to a free trial? I read another comment where someone claims it could be an infringement to one's basic human rights, and while I don't quite agree, I think it's an infringement of our legal rights. Karoo is the only provider of wired broadband internet access for these people from what I can tell, and really dial-up and satellite are not feasible options for alot of users, especially those that need a good reliable connection for work with any amount of speed. I know this still isn't forcing a user to admit guilt, but their options are slim unless they choose to go without the internet. Cutting off service is nothing new, but perhaps they should be required to seek more than just any "suspicion" considering that really leaves no need for evidence to back the decision and can be done on the whim of an employee who may just be having a bad day. Or, at the very least, they shouldn't require an admission of guilt, just a contract stating you won't share copyrighted files illegally and if you do you can be held legally responsible. Please, pick that apart and respond, I want to know how far off I could be with this one. Or how right it is...
Some place don't even have a good monopoly. I can't get cable to my house without personally paying for 1 mile of infrastructure. We get stuck with satellite and sporadic cell towers near here.
Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
I know. Why isn't there a "-1 RTFA" mod?
"But this one goes to 11!"
Isn't that why you pay for bandwidth? If a company advertises I can buy 5 liters of Coke a week for $2, and I drink five liters of Coke a week, and pay my $2, who are they to complain that I'm drinking more than my fair share of Coke? If they cannot afford to actually provide me 5 liters/week for $2, then they should change their advertising and product offering to something more reasonable.
Real /.ers browse with no threshold and no karma modifiers. Helps you build those nice mental filters against low temperature urination. On the plus side you also get to read some of the quite inventive trolls posted.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Something that seems to have been missed in all this fury, it that British ISP are vulnerable to the threats of large copyright owners because there is no safe harbour provision as provided for by the DMCA. Large ISP's like BT or Virgin have the financial resources to fight, medium sized ISPs like Karoo or small scale ISPs cannot afford to spend millions defending themselves in the high court.
I agree, I read at -1 exclusively. I do lament at the quality of the trolls though...the good ones are few and far between these days.
1) Find a list of all the IP addresses in use and file a copyright violation claim for each and every one of their subscribers.
2) They'll disconnect all their subscribers
3) Profit!
https://miroguide.com/
http://www.jamendo.com/
http://bt.etree.org/
Heavy users of Bittorrent, and legal.
"Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
IP2P is used exclusively to STEAL
Do you not read? Are you not aware that file sharing has many legitimate uses? Would it surprise you to learn that bittorrent was created for the express purpose of disseminating legal software updates?
I get a notice via email that then requires _manual processing_. This means that the cost of providing you service, just suddenly went up
No, the cost of providing service to outside interests is going up, thanks to tools like you giving them the time of day. A friend of mine owns and operates an idependent ISP. When he gets a letter from some hot-under-the-collar law firm he just tosses it in the bin and goes on with his day, which usually involves doing real work to make his customers happy in some way.
We are not going to protect you
But you will protect the *IAA?
Secondly, file sharers use a disproportionate share of bandwidth as compared to legal and legit users
So you're just using this as an excuse to boot the customers that use the bandwidth you gave them? Here's an idea: how about just enforcing your ToS instead of bringing some third party into what should be a privileged relationship between you and your client?
I know some stupid ISPs, but none as stupid as you. That's why I don't really believe you're an ISP. More likely a *IAA rep hopping on as AC to try to push my silly agenda.
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
Generally, I agree with you. Government should not unduly interfere with business relationships. Businesses should be, mostly, free to decide who they do business with.
But, when you talk about utilities that have government granted monopolies on running cable through rights-of-way to all the buildings in a geographic area, and no one else is permitted to compete by running their own cables, then its a different story. Such a business should be subject to government regulation, including reasonable regulations that they must offer service to anyone willing to pay, and to cut off service, there should either be lack of payment for an extended period (e.g. don't cut someone off for being just 2 or 3 days late on payment), or because of a *court order* (that is, as a result of perhaps a copyright holder suing someone for copyright violation, the court finding the defendant guilty, and the court issuing an order to terminate their Internet connection; or, in a more extreme case, maybe a judge has seen sufficient evidence to show that an internet connection is likely being used for something like kiddie porn, terrorism, or the operations of some other type of criminal organization, and so issues an emergency order before the trial).
Unless "approved" means "gets through the lameness filter," that's nonsense. Anyone can post. It's just that if people don't consider what you post acceptable, they'll mod you down. That's life, live with it. I've gotten things moderated down which I considered good jokes. So what, maybe the jokes were not really so good, maybe the moderators just didn't get them, whatever. The worst which could happen would be that I lose my karma bonus (which I don't normally use anyway). Oh, and Adblock might get some work if I lose my good karma.
Now, it happens that I've written enough posts which moderators considered interesting, informative or insightful that I'm probably not in danger of losing my good karma. Now you may think that my posts didn't actually deserve those moderations. So what. The moderators thought they deserved them, so they got them. And I got Karma for writing posts that obviously the people with moderation points liked.
I don't know what will happen with this posting. Maybe it will be moderated to -1 Offtopic (because it is offtopic for the story), maybe some moderators will consider the post interesting or even insightful. Of course I'd prefer the latter, but I don't care too much. I didn't write this post to get Karma, I wrote it in the hope that you (or other people who think like you) get some insight from it.
I never heard of anyone getting their posting privilege revoked. The worst which will happen is that your posts will get low score, which means that some people will not see your posts (I personally usually read at -1, so I will see your posts even then).
Maybe. Or maybe the analogy just wasn't that brilliant.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
I always forget that Hull is separate from the remainder of the UK in this. My first thought when reading the summary was "Wait, we always have options with ISPs in the UK".
Nice reading comprehension.
Probably there is a correlation between average 'reading comprehension' and the patentability of the presentation of information in the form of emoticons which (maybe) even an illiterate can understand.
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Because providing internet access there would require you to go to Hull.
No way man. You brought this on yourself by posting alarmist/inflammatory comments, which in some cases made it clear that you hadn't even read the article that you were commenting on.
If you want to escape the automatic -1 level, then you need to climb back up the fair way like everyone else.
Heh heh! Oh, boy! Oh man! DENIS. DENIS.
This is like asking for your driver's license back by driving into another policeman.
"It is evident that we have been exceeding the expectation of copyright owners..."
Sit!
Fetch!
Good boy!
Unless "approved" means "gets through the lameness filter," that's nonsense. Anyone can post. It's just that if people don't consider what you post acceptable, they'll mod you down. That's life, live with it. I've gotten things moderated down which I considered good jokes. So what, maybe the jokes were not really so good, maybe the moderators just didn't get them, whatever. The worst which could happen would be that I lose my karma bonus (which I don't normally use anyway). Oh, and Adblock might get some work if I lose my good karma.
Just An Opinion: Actually I've found that if people don't agree with you they will mod you to oblivion with flamebait or troll. Sometimes people do mod down over-rated, flamebait, or troll because someone is doing just that but just as often it's used to censor and/or burn the posters karma. I mean how often do you see some fairly insightful posts by AC because people don't want to risk their karma in a heated topic?
Don't think of it as a flame, more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage.
Actually it sounds like the UK is very much like the US.
I'm afraid you're wrong.
In most of the UK you can get a POTS line from BT. There are *many* ISPs that provide ADSL connections over BT POTS lines.
ADSL over BT lines is generally done in one of three ways:
IPStream: Basically, BT supplies the local loop, DSLAM and a backhaul to the ISP's datacentre. This generally works pretty well, although there are sometimes a few political problems when things go wrong (the usual blamestorming you expect when there are several companies involved with providing a service) and you're limited by the equipment BT have installed (generally 8Mbps down, 0.8Mbps up, plain old ADSL).
Datastream: more or less the same as IPStream except BT doesn't provide the backhaul (that's up to the ISP).
Local loop unbundling: BT provides nothing except the local loop - the ISP installs their own equipment and backhauls into the exchange. This means you're not limited to BT's ADSL equipment - ISPs can provide SDSL, ADSL2, etc.
In populated areas, you can often get services from NTL, who do telephone, cable TV and internet (usually cable modem, although sometimes ADSL/ADSL2).
Hull is a bit of an oddity because they don't have BT or NTL, they have a monopoly telco with their own ISP. I think they are governed by the same unbundling regulations as BT but in reality the market in Hull is too small for a national ISP to bother.
http://blog.nexusuk.org
The UK is the size of one US state. It's minuscule.
The whole area is tiny with lots of people crammed in. That's why trains work so well in Europe, lots of points of interests within a small area.
Anyone claiming the trains work in the UK clearly hasn't been here since they were privatised all those years ago...
http://blog.nexusuk.org
A reasonable interpretation of unlimited, in the context of a connection which has an advertised bandwidth limit (i.e. 10mbps down/2mbps up) is that you are limited to the amount of available bandwidth advertised. If I pay for 2mbps up, I'm not really paying for 'unlimited', but I do expect to be able to upload 2mbps without being told I'm consuming 'too much' bandwidth.
Such customers aren't using 'unlimited', they are using the bandwidth that was advertised and which they payed for. When ISPs bring up arguments like "using 100x more bandwidth than other customers" it's just to try to deflect attention away from the fact that they are using exactly what was advertised and which they payed for, and there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't MATTER that it's 100x more. Other people just *under-utilize* (should that be hyphenated? Not sure) their connections.
Not trying to belittle the problem of moderators censoring what they don't agree with, but have you tried posting on sites that use different moderation schemes? Slashdot is well above average when it comes to giving all sides a voice, probably because the relative scarcity of mod points encourages people to mod up rather than mod down. It's a lot like democracy being a horrible form a government (but the best one that we've found); Slashdot's moderation system allows for abuse and community censorship, but it is the best system I've seen on the Internet.
Kingston is the monopoly telecoms provider in Hull. BT is the monopoly provider in the rest of the country. And the place is evidently of no interest to any of the cable providers.
>>Is the ISP legally obliged to ensure its users don't do illegal things? If so, I'd have expected more ISPs to run similar operations.
Yes, there is a requirement - it's tied to the concept of 'common carrier', and is a legal protection that indemnifies me against the actions of my users. If I *do not* comply, then I am liable for all actions originating from my IP space. So for example, if someone makes a threatening phone call to the president, they don't go after the president of ATT, they go after the user because ATT is a common carrier and complies with the law and is itself not the source of the threats but will cooperate in detemining who is.
Don't use their wrong terminology. When you do this, you already lost.
P2P can't be used to steal things. It's used to share stuff. When I steal your bike, you end up with 0 bike. when I copy your bike, you still have yours.
user@life.com: ISPADVENT
You are in a suspicious little maze of ISPs, all the same.
ISPADVENT> E
You are in typical little maze of red tape, all alike.
ISPADVENT> SERVICE
You have no service points.
ISPADVENT> N
Oops! The RIAA has eaten you, please play again.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
In my area you can usually get Time Warner to lower your rate if you threaten to move to DSL -- but if you live in an area where DSL isn't an option they refuse any sort of rate deal because they know they have you by the balls.
I was talking to my dad about Comcast the other day; I use them because it's them or 1.5Mbps DSL from Qwest or a 1.5Mbps shared T1 (read: 1.5Mbps shared with other subscribers) from some other company. I pay something like $43/month for Comcast's 12Mbps service.
Now, when the six months ends, my rate is going to jump to $80/month or something like that. Your comment was exactly my dad's advice - when the six months is up, call them and say I want to cancel because other people are cheaper. They'll offer lower rates. (Lower than $80/month, at any rate.)
This works with other companies, too... when I worked for DirecTV, even us lowly first-tier customer service reps could give people rather large discounts to get them to keep their service.
Somewhat off-topic, has anyone else seen those new Comcast commercials saying "we've doubled our customers' speeds for free"? Everyone I've talked to about this that has Comcast has said that their experience mirrors mine - as soon as Comcast started airing those commercials, my average download speeds dropped. So much for "doubled".
Have you checked that they'd even let you pay for the infrastructure if you asked?
My dad tried to get Comcast to run cable across the street so he could get their service for his business. Literally across the street. (Not one of those six lane major roads - it's a lightly traveled one-lane-each-way road.) Comcast refused. My dad offered to pay for the work himself, up-front. Comcast refused.
Finally, they told him that if he could get six other businesses in his complex to agree to sign up for Comcast internet service, they'd run the cable across the street.
Comcast just doesn't care.
They used to make people sign confessions to witchcraft, too.
With hookers and blackjack I presume?
From TFA:
Kingston Communications is the primary supplier of telecommunications and data services in the City of Hull.
British Telecoms has no lines in the area, and with no other choice of ISP, the residents of Hull often have no choice but to use Karoo if they want an internet connection.
There is no other Telecom company in the area, as Hull has its own telephone system.
And the company running it behaves like a true monopoly is expected to.
Also,
KCOM's Hull operation covers a relatively small geographical area. Although it is under the same Ofcom and EU obligations with respect to local loop unbundling the addressable market is so small that the economics do not - by and large - justify entry by other companies.[4]
To add more complications for any would-be rival of Kingston Communications is the fact that in Hull the first 1 km of wire from the exchange has a cross-section of 0.3 mm sq, as opposed to the standard 0.5 mm sq, requiring a more expensive DSLAM in the telephone exchange for providing an ADSL service.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
That's when I'd collaborate with a neighbour on the Comcast side of the street to set up an encrypted wireless network to share the internet. Split the bill, and tell Comcast to go fuck themselves if they don't like it...
Here is THE issue:
If you want to deliver your content to 100% of customers, P2P is no-go:
1) It will simply not work for certain configurations and underperforms in many others. You want to tinker with customers computer, open ports etc ... and it is not going to be enough. You need fallback.
2) It can saturate customer BW, especially if you are 'evil' and let em seed for a while after they are done.
3) It does not work for certain content: It is kinda hard to stream with p2p, and most conent is that: some silly streamed videos. You can not really deliver websites with p2p either. Biggest media sites simply can not tap potential of p2p.
5) Tech support is nightmare.
All in all, you will need fallback: good oldfashioned http or ftp download. And customers are kinda smart ... If direct download is faster than torrent (it will for most people who are not on academic networks), people will choose direct download. I know I will: 1kb of upload kinda blocks about 5kb of download on my connection. 2000 seed torrent of one iso means overnight, getting that iso from ftp is about hour.
Blizzard had to invest a lot to fallback and seed servers, OS projects still need big ftps.
My piratey coleagues use direct download file stores like rapidshare instead of any p2p it seems and I think they got it right. Being able to actually saturate your downlink from seccond 1 with nearly guaranteed speed simply wins over p2p unrealiablity. P2p is not THE way to pirate anymore.
So if you are business and have rented that big server that can handle load, you can as well not bother with p2p. Do not fall in "ellegance" trap. elegant solution is not always best solution. p2p has lots of elegance and tech neatness, but that does not help it in being succesfull business tool.
-- Technology for the sake of technology is as pathetic as eschewing technology because it's technology.
Here's an idea: how about just enforcing your ToS instead of bringing some third party into what should be a privileged relationship between you and your client?
Most ISPs have a TOS saying you can't infringe copyrights or break the law using their service. How they find out about the infringement/lawbreaking is not really an issue.
I write bullshit
SkipScreen
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Amazon S3 provides an API for getting a BitTorrent tracker for any publicly-readable file you have hosted on S3. Look! Yet another legitimate use :)
There was an HD 'tv' show, a couple years ago, called MariposaHD. The producers of the show distribute it exclusively by BitTorrent (it's still available if you care to check it out - it's mostly eye candy - some guys going to different South/Central American countries and taking HD footage of scenery and chicks - lots of chicks lol). The reason I mention it, is that I think there is real potential, in the future, for using P2P technologies to legally distribute HD content. I'd like to see more online video services perhaps adopt more P2P technologies - there's no reason a for-profit company couldn't potentially use P2P to increase their market reach and profitability.
The Miro player is great for downloading HD content over connections that might not be able to handle it as a live stream. Torrent support is built in. While you can download movies and TV shows, you can also get net-only content like techzilla, geekbrief, nasa tv, rocketboom, all sorts of amateur content. This is what the big boys are scared of. This sort of delivery system rapidly marginalizes them. Best to declare it responsible for terrorism and pedophilia and get it banned.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
That's a decent idea. Unfortunately the other side of the street is a parking lot, except for where Comcast's junction box is, and there isn't another business within a reasonable range.
They ended up signing up for 3Mbps Qwest DSL, then ugpraded to 7Mbps when it became available.
(3Mbps for 25 employees, yikes... fortunately they only need e-mail.)
Folks,
IP2P is used exclusively to STEAL, and then you want to whine and complain when the big bad riaa/mpaa fingers you. Haha, I've got no sympathy for you.
I consider p2p users to be undesireable customers anyways, and so when they get caught and reported to me, I use that opportunity to engage in some education about the teeth in my terms of service.
So lets get it right. The problem is not the big bad isp cutting off it's sweet innocent customers for arbitrary or unreasonable reasons - it is that the wonton theft and trade of copyrighted material has reached such epidemic proportions that it's beginning to cost the ISP's money, and the escelating war between the copyright holders and the thieves (who could very well be grandma who can't find the keyboard anyways) demands a business resolution in order to stem the tide of lost revenue/extra costs associated with the behavior.
So.. let me get it straight: you're cutting people's internet for using a peer to peer program... uploading content that you have no idea what it is to other people using your company's bandwith!
Oh lord! Have mercy! they will finally cut down on the World Of Warcraft players! As every single one of them are using the, oh so dangerous, program made by the DEVIL: Bittorent!
I'd really like to see 11 millions customers being accused of illegally file-sharing on bittorent when they were using it for legal patch downloading of their favorite drug-game, World Of Warcraft
I really can't wait until Blizzard will have to answer to all their clients who get accused of stealing copyrighted materials while officially downloading their patches!
I am an ISP and I support this (Score:3, Informative)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 24, @12:05PM (#28808199)
IP2P is used exclusively to STEAL, and then you want to whine and complain when the big bad riaa/mpaa fingers you. Haha, I've got no sympathy for you...file sharers use a disproportionate share of bandwidth as compared to legal and legit users..."
"...and if there is no other choice where they live, well thats just too damm bad. "
"We should note that we don't get involved until an authority has filed a notice with us..."
You're an ISP and you think the RIAA is an authority over your company?
No, you're not an Internet Service Provider. Not with such a tenuous grasp on internet technology. At best you're lowest-tier tech support at an ISP...but I think you're just a kid.
"...it is that the wonton theft and trade of copyrighted material..."
You got me. I use P2P to download more wontons. I love those things.
We checked our corporate charter and it said we were supposed to do whatever a copyright owner tells us to do, but there was nothing in it about being creative. If we just do whatever they tell us to, we can claim them as an excuse. It's when we get creative and try to be a suck-up that we can get into trouble, so we're going to ratchet back to simply being a yes-man instead of a foot kisser.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
IANAL, but I was taken aback by this bit: "subscribers have to go to Karoo's office and sign a form admitting guilt and promising not to do it again".
Isn't that some sort of vicious breach of common law AND copyright law ? I get that this is an ISP and not a court of law, but a false accusation is a false accusation. They're tangling someone else's copyright interests with their own business model. Employers get into big trouble for far less offensive practices.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Isn't making assumptions wonderfully fun? I'm one of those *crazy*, and according to you nonexistant, people who use torrents for legal purposes. You will assume I only download illegal material... but what about, for example:
1. I very much enjoy watching video game speed runs. A large majority is available via torrent. Legally. Should I be cut off for this? Some of them are quite large, and use a lot of bandwidth... which costs you money. Should I be treated worse and cut off faster because of that?
2. Despite what you believe, there IS a large quantity of music available legally via torrent. I tend to avoid mainstream stuff, because honestly I think most of it sucks. Should I be cut off for this?
Obviously, I will use less bandwidth than a "heavy" user, but that is irrelevant for the whole 'cut off' aspect.
And now let's stir up a little bit of controversy that may come up, that one day you may eventually have to face. After all, as you have claimed, not everyone is honest, and some people are even scammers or just troublemakers.
Let's look at assumptions a bit more, but from the other perspective. You mentioned that you cut off people who an authority (you neglect to mention which, or how) has fingered as 'uploading' illegal files. Now for the sake of argument, let's delve into this a little bit. Can you confirm that whom you're speaking with is actually an authority, and not someone pretending to be one via email/phone? Could say... anyone with a spoofed phone number or email header make a claim? Secondly, do you attempt in the slightest to confirm these claims, or just accept them at face value?
Say for example, for the sake of stirring up trouble and/or lawsuits, I rename "Megaman9SpeedrunAudioRip.mp3" (and don't say this is stupid... I DO in actuality have audio rips of some game speed runs, which are available to others) to "Britney Spears - Whatever.mp3" and start uploading it. If I were to tell you this after being cut off, would you outright ignore me? Say for example someone with the same mindset as me has a lot of money, has documented the entire process of him doing this (via screenshots, etc), and later comes to you with a lawyer. What would be your reaction? Call them liars and kick them out?
Basically, are you just doing as told, or taking even the slightest responsibility for your actions? Obviously, a large number of people illegally fileshare. Let's say that it's the vast, vast majority. Is that still any reason it condemn the innocent at the same time as the guilty? A few cracked eggs to make an omelette, so to speak?
And as others have mentioned, the technology of torrenting can have immeasurable value in the future, if used correctly. Will you condemn this technology because someone else says it's bad?
I realize that the likely response to all of this will be along the lines of "Virtually all people nowadays illegally fileshare, what can I do about it, the police tell me to cut someone off and I can't disobey them, etc, etc"... but I just wanted to put a few extra thoughts in your mind. Hopefully I succeeded, but I somehow doubt it.
Planet Zebeth - Metroid with a twist
You can even write about dope or hookers or mod points.
In fact, forget the dope and mod points.
Actually I've found that if people don't agree with you they will mod you to oblivion with flamebait or troll
Yes, it happens to everyone, but if it's a good post it will be remoderated; I've seen posts with a score of -1 go all the way to +5, and I'll bet you have, too.
The way you put things affects it as well; an otherwise insighrful post that's also insulting will be modded "troll", and the mod will be deserved.
Free Martian Whores!
In soviet Russia customers disconnects ISP!
JMule user : http://www.jmule.org
The UK is the size of one US state. It's minuscule.
The whole area is tiny with lots of people crammed in. That's why trains work so well in Europe, lots of points of interests within a small area.
Anyone claiming the trains work in the UK clearly hasn't been here since they were privatised all those years ago...
The trains get a bad rap, but I use them semi-regularly and have never had a major problem. Apart from the extortionate price of sandwiches, I've never seen why so many people give them a bad time, after all they get you from A to B and are on time 90% of the time.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
>>> P2P is used exclusively to STEAL
I didn't bother to read your entire post, because you were wrong with your very first sentence! P2P is used to download copyrighted works, yes, but it's not "exclusively" for that purpose. I've downloaded perfectly legal stuff like antivirus software, home movies from family, linux distributions, PS3 software updates, and even legally-purchased TV episodes.
If you can't even get your first sentence correct, I shudder to think what other falsehoods were in your rant. But I will add this:
Most of the shit isn't worth paying for. I just recently downloaded ~20 movies that I watched on my ipod, and only 1 of those was worthy of purchase (Hannah Montana 3D for my niece). Just imagine how I'd feel if I had spent $400 buying those twenty DVDs, legally, only to discover what trash they are. The word "ripped-off" comes to mine.
And of course there's no warranty.
No "satisfaction guaranteed".
You're stuck with the dumb DVD.
I don't know about the average consumer, but THIS consumer can't afford to just throw-away four hundred dollars on poorly-made movie purchases.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I'm not a Brit
That's pretty obvious given your post. I'm a Brit and I haven't got a clue what you're on about.
Listen to my latest album here
Sorry, someone with spelling as atrocious as yours is difficult to take seriously.
Also, note that each of your arguments is easily refuted and without merit.
Case closed.
>>>First, I get a notice via email that then requires _manual processing_.
Oh just ignore it. My ISP Verizon has announced it won't enforce RIAA or MPAA notices. That's their job, not Verizon's job, so they get ignored.
>>>Secondly, file sharers use a disproportionate share of bandwidth as compared to legal and legit users, and cutting their asses off has a positive benifical effect on the network.
>>>
Instead of cutting them off completely, you could just reduce their speed to ~500k - still functional if they want to watch hulu.com, but not hogging all the bandwidth either. This is basically the approach being used by people like Comcast ISP.
Alternatively you could move from a flat-rate model to a "pay as you go" model - where every gigabyte over 10GB is 10 cents more. Just like how most cellphones operate (overage minutes).
>>>I consider p2p users to be undesireable customers anyways, and so when they get caught and reported to me, I use that opportunity to engage in some education about the teeth in my terms of service. Yes, cutting people off has quite an immediate and therapeutic effect on their behavior
>>>
You remind me of the ancient SYS-OPs from the days of BBSes. Also some webmasters on modern forums. Most were decent people but every now and then, you ran into someone who was on a power trips. Being able to "cut them off" helped feed their power trip. "You read the terms of use; you violated them. Goodbye. Muhahaha. Muhahaha!"
Anyway I'll happily buy DVDs of movies I like.
The problem is that most of them are crap.
And you don't know what's good, and what's crap,
until *after* you've seen it at least once.
Perhaps if content creators had a "satisfaction guaranteed" warranty, then I'd be more-inclined to make legal DVD purchases, but they don't. They don't care if I enjoyed what I saw; they just want the money. As long as they have that attitude, then I'm going to continue trying before buying, so I don't waste money on junk.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
>>>>>"Content creators are not owed a living."
>>Just like factory workers, cops, teachers, doctors, engineers, etc aren't owed a living, right?
No they're not. You get paid for doing work, but if your product is not something the consumer wants to pay money to obtain, then your product doesn't sell. That's how a free market works. I'm an engineer and I'm in that predicament right now - nobody's interested in my programming skills, so here I sit.
What I don't do is call-up RIAA or some similar organization and start demanding we sue people. I don't have a right to take other people's money if they're not interested in buying my program. Maybe my program is crap and I should try a different career.
Everything I just said also applies to writers, singers, or producers.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If you want to remain sane with todays bloated web.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You know, I'd have supported your position if you hadn't "fixed" the first line. I don't steal content but I do use file-sharing services to pick up things that would normally be free because the bit torrent and similar download algorithms make for a much faster download than one would get through normal methods.
"Little is much when little you need."
"crazykingdom"?
There's gotta be a better tag for nutjob stories emanating from the Isles.
"psychobrits"
"ukbullocks"
"unitedcringedom"
"satannicabritannica"
Srsly.
"Content creators are not owed a living."
Just like factory workers, cops, teachers, doctors, engineers, etc aren't owed a living, right?
You know what? No one is owed a living. People might want what other provide, and maybe they'll even be willing to pay for it. If they are, then the providers will make money. BTW, you chose three particularly bad examples with cops, teachers, and doctors, professions which are much more like callings, and where many are willing to work for free because their services are often for the betterment of society.
"It is evident that we have been exceeding the expectation of copyright owners..."
When it turned out they weren't willing to take any responsibility for the actions, despite having threatened us with lawsuits if we didn't comply instantly and unreservedly.
There, fixed that for them.
Pug
An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
Hmmmmmmm! This clearly all goes back to that on-pitch talk at Man City.
"IP2P is used exclusively to STEAL"
Wrong. True, a lot of people use it to steal.
Apparently you can physically deprive people of electronic bits now
Not everyone has the time to read Slashdot five hours a day
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
I've never seen why so many people give them a bad time, after all they get you from A to B and are on time 90% of the time.
On the few occasions I've had to use the train, it has generally cost me in the order of £100 to do a journey that would cost me around £15 in the car. Needless to say, I use my car wherever possible.
http://blog.nexusuk.org
Meta-modding is also a good way to score easy Karma.
Unfortunately with the new metamod system you can't get karma for being corrupt anymore.
An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
I've seen posts with a score of -1 go all the way to +5, and I'll bet you have, too.
Let's put the theory to the test, see if someone mods this back up.
#####
Linux is a crappy underdeveloped OS, Windows Vista is by far the best operating system in the world.
#####
An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
i.e. "...This new service from Cobus is available from Monday 20th July 2009 and allows new and existing Customers to benefit from reduced telephone line rental as well as further reductions on call costs." from http://www.cobuscommunications.co.uk/network_services/index.php
"Whatever you can let be will let you be."
BT is the monopoly provider in the rest of the country.
False. Apart from the local loop unbundling which still sort of involves BT, a large part of the country can use Virgin Media's cable network for phone/TV/Internet with no BT involvement at all.
In populated areas, you can often get services from NTL,
Wake Up! It *was* a NTL and Telewest (near) cable duopoly, but more than five years ago it was merged into one company known as Virgin Media.
Well, none of us "need" access at all.
But i still say if you *want* to have access, with todays 'web' dialup would be painful at best.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm one of the lucky few that has been here long enough, and not fucked up too many times, such that I get 15 modpoints at a time, and I get modpoints often (not trying to brag, just stating a fact). I will generally not give more than one, or, at most, two, moderations to the same username on the same story, unless I see some sort of abuse going on by other moderators. (Abusive moderators catch on to that sort of thing, and will start metamodding me negatively, and when my modpoints are revoked I can't neither mod posts for sake of content nor fight abusive mods... protect-oneself-so-that-one-can-protect-others principle). However, I'm one of the mods that browses at (-1, ...), and I'll keep an eye out for you. That being said, I can't indiscriminately mod up every bad analogy I see *g*. RTFA + doing research + doing critical thought may prevent you from being able to make posts that show up on the first comments page for readers at level 1 or 2, but plenty of readers browse at 3 or 4, and you will quickly earn their trust.
I have seen a lot of witty and thoughtful posts come out of you in the past. Keep 'em comin', and don't let this get you frustrated. It's just teh intarwubz, ferchrissakes!!!elevenetyone!!11
Left out something: about the not modding the same user on the same story more than once or twice in general, I meant that I can't mod-up every post of yours I see that is good... that sort of thing tends to result in modpoints being awarded less frequently :(