The Pirate Bay Ordered To Block Dutch Users

Failure to appear in court... by CannonballHead · 2009-07-30 05:05 · Score: 5, Funny

... is a big deal in most courts, as far as I know.

Even for something like a traffic ticket, if the cop doesn't show up in court, you're let off... (in the US anyways)

Re:Failure to appear in court... by El+Jynx · 2009-07-30 05:13 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's a bit more interesting than that, though. BREIN was actually sueing the company that was planning to take over TPB, expecting an easier grant from the judge (which they got). This opens the door to forcing ISP's to block certain websites, something which BREIN has been trying for but has hitherto miserably failed at. This is all just a sham to set up jurisprudence to slowly swing the courts in their favor. I think I'm gonna go BREINwash their CEO.

--
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it well worth the effort.
Re:Failure to appear in court... by Lumpy · 2009-07-30 05:28 · Score: 4, Interesting

BUT, most courts require proof you were served with papers to appear at court.
Honestly the Judge is the jackass here. If they were properly served and responded with "we cant make the court date" the judge cant do this.
Otherwise, I could sue every one of you in court, and if you did not know of the court case, would not show up, and I would automatically win.
The whole story is not there.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Failure to appear in court... by Atrox666 · 2009-07-30 05:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's also a DUTCH court..they are not Dutch and do not own a Dutch business. This Judge is out of his juristdiction and can basicly go blow himself.
Re:Failure to appear in court... by Zsub · 2009-07-30 05:42 · Score: 4, Informative

Not true. BREIN have argued that several pages where they put up the notice were visited by IP addresses belonging to TPB. Also it was the judge's opinion that it would have been quite impossible not to notice the media commotion around this hearing.
I personally find the latter point somewhat dubitable: why the heck would they follow Dutch news anyway, but the former point is to me somewhat more convincing.
One also has to note by the way that the entire Dutch IT-crowd has their panties in a bunch over this, because our Christfaggy government earlier announced plans to introduce a filter not entirely different from the thing the Australian wants. Many see this as an important first step towards that goal and a very large step back for our freedom and society.
Re:Failure to appear in court... by commodore64_love · 2009-07-30 05:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

Nice try, but sending a letter which states, "We are not able to attend," is proof that you received the summons. Of course it's bad form to just not show-up. That's considered an insult to the judge because you're wasting his time, and the proper thing would have been to ask for a postponement to a more-convenient time.
I think what we're witnessing here is a bunch of arrogant people who don't realize that pissing-off the judge tends to sway him to rule against you. If the Piratebay took a different tactic, like your typical politician of smiling even when you're filled with hate, they could probably convince the judge to come-over to their side.
"Play the victim" is also a valid tactic. - Poor, defenseless citizens being attacked by a big billion-dollar corporation. "C'mon judge, we'll be smashed like bugs if you don't help us out."

--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:Failure to appear in court... by moonbender · 2009-07-30 05:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

Both are EU countries. Not sure if that has any relevance here, IANAL.

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Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
Re:Failure to appear in court... by lacoronus · 2009-07-30 05:52 · Score: 3, Informative

From the English translation of the verdict:

2.3 From the productions deliverd by the prosecution it can be seen that de prosecution has tried to use the central organisation for summoning in Sweden but this didn't work. After this they tried a swedish bailiff which also failed.
2.4 In cases like this a judge can still allow the prosecution to continue if it's plausible that the summoned somehow still did see the summoning even though they never have been officially reached to hand them the summoning.
The prosecution sent mails to the email adresses of the prosecuted and the official owner of thepiratebay.org on 19 and 23 juni 2009. It's plausible the summoned did read the emails since the prosecution have received an email from 1 of these email adresses on 6th may 2009 in which the prosecution has told them they were going to sue.
The prosecution has also sent summonings by facebook and twitter. In these messages were special links to click on to see the swedish translations. Someone with an ip adress from the piratebay has visited this website. The summoned have declared to multiple media that they did not receive a summoning and so that they were not informed. The prosecution does not believe this.
...and evidently the court didn't believe it either. Seems like the usual level of legal skills displayed by TPB. First they have their heads handed to them in Swedish court, now the same has happened with a Dutch court. These people had better get a better legal team, because as it stands now they're being annihilated due to own stupidity - or more likely, by repeatedly basing their defense on a belief that judges are gullible.
I can't help but believe that TPB keeps making these idiot mistakes because they think they're smarter than the court. "Oh we never received the summons because you can't prove it, nyah!" "Well, according to the law, you should have, and according to the law, we can proceed as if you had."
Re:Failure to appear in court... by Animaether · 2009-07-30 05:58 · Score: 4, Informative

The judge can, and will, do this.
In point 1.2 the judge established that the defendants had written an undated letter saying that the defendants will not be showing up in court. In point 1.3 the judge established that seeing as they wrote the letter, it is ridiculous to claim that they were in fact -not- aware of the proceedings before them, and the motions for dismissal thus be struck down; after all, they could have either been present just fine or have sent representation.
Further, they judge accepts the evidence by BREIN, that they followed:
- the official paths of notification (point 2.3; going through swedish authorities, and through a Swedish bailiff)
- unofficial paths (point 2.4)
-- e-mail to the defendants' e-mail address
--- (the judge and accepted the evidence by BREIN that one of the defendants -had- replied from one of the e-mail addresses written to as late as May 6th, in response to a notification about this very case (again, point 2.4) )
-- e-mail the domain holder's e-mail address)
-- wrote to the lawyers who had represented the defendants in a recent court case
-- registered mail, containing the subpoena in Swdish) to each of the defendants addresses.
--- (the judge accepted evidence by BREIN, from the courier service, that the mail was delivered)
-- a Twitter post
-- a Facebook post
--- (for the curious: whether or not these are reasonable venues for notification has yet to be determined. In the case a defendant can't be found, the posting in newspapers and such -is- acceptable. It is likely that the above two are found to be acceptable as well)
As a result, the judge once again surmises (still in point 2.4) that it is not likely that the defendants were -not- (timely) aware of these proceedings, and most certainly -could- have been present, or represented, in court.
Re:Failure to appear in court... by Animaether · 2009-07-30 06:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

Provided the ruling stands in appeals (and they could appeal all the way up to the EU courts, of course), you're right.. the judges can be told to blow themselves until the Swedish authorities hand down the rulings.
However, in the mean time...
- if they appear in The Netherlands, they can be arrested.
- if they continue to not block the Dutch, then BREIN may have a case for Dutch -ISPs- to block TPB as alternative means of getting TPB blocked.
Foreign sites have been blocked before - think gambling sites - based on Dutch law and court cases, so it's not entirely unthinkable.
Re:Failure to appear in court... by corbettw · 2009-07-30 06:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

You're assuming that Sweden and the Netherlands don't have treaties to enforce each other's court judgments. I don't for certain one way or the other, but considering they're both members of the EU I'd be very surprised if they don't have something like that in place.

--
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Re:Failure to appear in court... by citizenr · 2009-07-30 08:04 · Score: 3, Informative

Nope, EU is not one country, only EU law works in every member state, common law works only on national level. This ruling has as much merit as Polish court ordering German gun shop to not sell 9mm blank pistols to Polish citizens. Its illegal in poland to own one, but legal in Germany to sell them. Polish court has no jurisdiction in Germany.

--
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
Re:Failure to appear in court... by YouWantFriesWithThat · 2009-07-30 08:07 · Score: 2, Informative

did you miss the part where they are being sued in a country that they do not reside in?
Re:Failure to appear in court... by thisnamestoolong · 2009-07-30 08:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

Umm.. how is any of this applicable in a foreign court? Does this mean that a Japanese court can just send me a summons for tomorrow and I somehow need to figure out how to get there? This is just beyond bizarre. What about national sovereignty? By this standard every single site on the web will need to obey every single local ordinance IN THE WORLD. This would, obviously, make the Internet impossible, as almost anything you do is going to be illegal somewhere. This would make it illegal to lambaste jeebus on an American site, due to Irish anti-blasphemy laws. It would effectively illegalize pornography. I really hope that this is not valid, or the Web as we know it will cease to be.

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To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
Re:Failure to appear in court... by lacoronus · 2009-07-30 09:57 · Score: 2, Informative

From the English translation of the verdict:
Someone with an ip adress from the piratebay has visited this website.
Could you give an URL to that english translation? There seems to be a difference between this dutch version
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17846197/Vonnis-rechter-The-Pirate-Bay
and the english one you quote.
In the dutch version the IP address belongs to piratebyran.
-V
I got the translation at http://drop.io/breinpaidforthis_english.
As I understand the Dutch text, the IP address did belong to Piratbyrån, but they are the ones who established TPB. (Note: Piratbyrån is not to be confused with Antipiratbyrån, the Swedish Anti-Piracy Bureau and copyright cop. Yes, the name of the former is a play on the latter.)

Ok... so how do you tell? by Kenja · 2009-07-30 05:08 · Score: 4, Funny

How are you going to get users to take the How Dutch Am I test before accessing the web page?

--

"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"

Re:Ok... so how do you tell? by ickleberry · 2009-07-30 05:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

"Neuken in de keuken" does not mean any of the things listed there :)

Proxies, anyone? by Bangmaker · 2009-07-30 05:11 · Score: 5, Insightful

How would TBP know that the visitors were from the Netherlands anyway? As far as I know, there is not much to go buy other than an IP address, which can easily be hidden by almost any proxy.

Re:Proxies, anyone? by Tx · 2009-07-30 05:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

It may be easy for a nerd to install e.g. SwitchProxy, and knock together some scripts to automate the maintenance of a list of working anonymizing proxy servers (and by the way, any old proxy is not good enough), but it's not that easy for Joe Public. Unless they're going to pay for a vpn service, the vast majority of Dutch people will be accurately blocked by their IP address. And since accessing TPB is not a fundamental human right, the tiny amount of collateral damage will be seen as insignificant.

--
Oh no... it's the future.
Re:Proxies, anyone? by Artraze · 2009-07-30 05:25 · Score: 5, Interesting

Well, the obvious solution is to put a "What country do you live in?" dropdown on the front page. Thus you no longer have to worry about IP addresses and all that. Sure the users may lie, but that's their problem...

Failure to appear is an insult by cdrguru · 2009-07-30 05:11 · Score: 2, Insightful

The judge was clearly pissed off that nobody showed up. If you can't make it, you at least have an attorney put in an appearance. When nobody shows up there isn't much you can do and the judge is going to be pissed off. It is like you are questioning the validity of the court.

And that is a really bad beginning to something you would like to win.

Re:Failure to appear is an insult by CorporateSuit · 2009-07-30 05:35 · Score: 4, Funny

Hello Friend,

This is an order to appear before the Nigerian High Court for fraud charges that have been perpetrated against you. I am a widow and also the judge of the court and have asked that you appear to prosecute the man who stole your identity. The fine for that in Nigeria is $600,000,000 (SIX HUNDRED MILLION US DOLLARS) and if you appear in court, we will award you 1% of the damages, which is $6,000,000 (SIX MILLION US DOLLARS) as a token of thanks for your time and honor to justice. Please call the number below in order to verify your plans to assist us with this trial.

God Bless,
Frank Liu Xiong
+34.37.342.34209
866 Muskrat Way
Habubajab
Nigeria

--
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
Re:Failure to appear is an insult by Dahamma · 2009-07-30 06:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

The validity of the court SHOULD be questioned! I mean, they gave summons via *Twitter*! What kind of a kangaroo court is that?
Besides, it's a Dutch court asking a Swedish citizen to appear regarding a Swedish website. If you received a "summons" from a Chinese court to appear for violating their demands that you block all of their citizens from viewing your website, would you appear?

Court ruling in english by SRabbelier · 2009-07-30 05:11 · Score: 5, Informative

Remcokatz on twitter was nice enough to translate the verdict into english and put the result on.

Netherlands Antilles Residents? by eldavojohn · 2009-07-30 05:12 · Score: 2, Informative

In a totally unexpected ruling, a Dutch court has decided that The Pirate Bay should block visitors from the Netherlands within 10 days or face a fine of â30,000 per defendant per day.

What about residents on islands like Sint Maartin in the Netherlands Antilles? Blocking by IP address could get a little more complicated considering the Northern half of that island is French.

--
My work here is dung.

They should refuse by bogaboga · 2009-07-30 05:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

The Pirate Bay should refuse to heed that request/order on grounds that it is undemocratic to discriminate against users on the basis of religion, ethnicity, nationality or otherwise. Who can argue against that?

What we need to do ... by Archangel+Michael · 2009-07-30 05:14 · Score: 5, Interesting

What we need to do, is get a US judge to order the Dutch Judge to over turn the ruling or face a fine of $100,000(US) for every Dutch user that is prevented from accessing the Pirate Bay. ...

On a side note, does the Judge realize that a simple proxy server can bypass his ruling? There is NO WAY to enforce such a stupid ruling. The Technically Illiterate should not be making what amounts to a new law regarding Technological issues.

This whole thing would be silly if the pointy headed elites weren't involved. Is it me, or are they (pointy headed elites) some of the stupidest people on the planet or what?

--
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.

Re:What we need to do ... by Plunky · 2009-07-30 06:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

A couple of months ago, I would've argued that joe-six-pack wouldn't know what a proxy-server is and how to use it, but after seeing what was happening in Iran over the last couple of months I think maybe joe-six-pack is more web savvy than I gave him credit for.
In the UK, I believe most children are educated by their fellows about proxies because the school administrators block all kinds of chat servers that they need to access all the time.
Re:What we need to do ... by Thiez · 2009-07-30 06:37 · Score: 2, Funny

Please stop repeating http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1320677&cid=28884515 yourself.
Re:What we need to do ... by MagicM · 2009-07-30 08:36 · Score: 2, Informative

The Technically Illiterate should not be making what amounts to a new law
The Netherlands does not use common law but instead uses civil law, where: "laws are written into a collection, codified, and not determined [...] by judges".

To dutch users by jerep · 2009-07-30 05:15 · Score: 3, Funny

you are now required to use a proxy to access our website, we apologize for the inconvenience.

--
Do you D?

Legal? by sanosuke001 · 2009-07-30 05:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

Do they even live in the Netherlands? Are their servers in the Netherlands? If not, why should they care what they want them to do?

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-SaNo

Re:Legal? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-07-30 05:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

They should not care. By international laws the location of the servers ("service") defines the laws and the (location of) court used to settle disputes. The only other route for IP related issues is by using WTO, which is extremely unlikely (requires actual political will from top brass).
Re:Legal? by lacoronus · 2009-07-30 06:17 · Score: 2, Informative

Are their servers in the Netherlands?
I believe they still have some servers there. Not the main ones, but they do have a presence in the Netherlands (trackers?). It started when they were raided way back in '06 (?) and had to move the whole operation there. Since then they moved back to Sweden, but I vaguely recall them still having some hardware there.
ns2.thepiratebay.org is in the Netherlands, for example.

Isn't there an easy solution to this? by Hojima · 2009-07-30 05:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

Put up a page for all Dutch users saying that they have been banned, then provide links on how to circumvent the ban. Any lawyer here know if they can get away with that?

--
Help fight spam

Re:Isn't there an easy solution to this? by Anachragnome · 2009-07-30 05:26 · Score: 3, Funny

IANAL and I know that is a bad idea. (wow. almost spelled that "I ANAL")
There are legal means of addressing the situation, and contempt of court is not one of them.
Re:Isn't there an easy solution to this? by corbettw · 2009-07-30 06:25 · Score: 4, Funny

Maybe someone should provide the instructions in a torrent.

--
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Re:Isn't there an easy solution to this? by Jurily · 2009-07-30 06:26 · Score: 4, Interesting

Could someone please explain to me what authority a Dutch court has on a Swedish site?
Re:Isn't there an easy solution to this? by Anonymous Coward · 2009-07-30 08:43 · Score: 5, Informative

They do not have. But this was a 'kort geding'. It has no equivalent in US law. You could compare it to a preliminary injunction or summary judgement.
BREIN simply states: The rights of the artists we represent are violated (under Dutch copyright law you cannot offer services that allow third parties to infringe upon the copyrights of others), and this happens in the Netherlands, and it happens now and it needs to be stopped quickly because the damages cannot continue.
The TPB could have said, or could have sent someone who would have said: 'BREIN is lying, nothing is offered in the Netherlands' or whatever. Since they failed to show up and didn't send someone to represent them the judge, who does not do a full investigation of the facts, only has the 'evidence' BREIN provides.
From that point of view it is a clear violation of Dutch copyright law, which is happening under Dutch jurisdiction (albeit by Swedish persons) which needs to stop. And, since TPB was not there, they are 'convicted in absentia'. This is a normal course of events.
If you do not show up, the only thing the judge can do is check whether the claims are not blatantly unlawful. And if not, they are almost always awarded. As happened here. Most lawyers could have told them this would happen if they didn't send someone and the judge deemed it probable they did hear they were summoned.
The latter is so you can't run and hide in order to escape conviction.
Re:Isn't there an easy solution to this? by Jurily · 2009-07-30 09:37 · Score: 4, Funny

(under Dutch copyright law you cannot offer services that allow third parties to infringe upon the copyrights of others)
In my country, it is illegal for me to read your post, therefore you will be sentenced to death shortly.

And In Other News by MightyMartian · 2009-07-30 05:26 · Score: 5, Funny

Seattle, WA - The Kingdom of the Netherlands has been ordered to pay Irving Schwartzmizzlegub $50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 for causing his pet cockerspanial , Peppy-dee, to die. Judge Thomas Hikemyjacksbitchpeople awarded Schwartzmizzlegub the large sum because, in his own words "These fucking people live by dikes, and I got Herpes in Amsterdam when I was 20."

Schwartzmizzlegub alleged that the osmotic psychowaves emanating from several Dutch cities caused little Peppy-dee to spiral into canine depression, prostitute himself at a nearby 7-11, and ultimately take his own life by leaping into the Slurpee machine.

The large size of the award is assumed to be because the Kingdom of the Netherlands never appeared in court. A representative of the Dutch ambassador tried to explain that countries can't actually move, but the judge rejected that, called the Ambassador's representative "a sub-German freek" and made the award.

Schwartzmizzlegub is planning to use the money to clone Elvis and make him into a sex-slave.

This article is protected by nuclear technology by AP

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.

Easy solution to that ... by MartinSchou · 2009-07-30 05:27 · Score: 3, Funny

Step 1) Make a blanket rule on any IP resolving to a .NL address
Step 2) The rule presents the users with the following message:

Dear user
Thanks to a ruling from a Dutch court, we are required to prevent anyone from the Netherlands not using a proxy to mask their country from using our site.
Kind regards
The Staff

Alright, the last link might be a bit much, but still ...

The Netherlands invaded Sweden? by houghi · 2009-07-30 05:40 · Score: 4, Informative

I would think that is the bigger headline here. Otherwise, how could a Dutch court demand anything from a Swedish company?

Or perhaps they should demand the legal drinking age in the US to be 16.

And the irony is that downloading is legal in the Netherlands, just not uploading.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.

Yes, dissolve the EU. by PopeRatzo · 2009-07-30 05:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

I guess there's something to be said for sovereignty. Seems the main effect of the European Union has been to limit individual rights.

--
You are welcome on my lawn.

Re:Yes, dissolve the EU. by JockTroll · 2009-07-30 06:30 · Score: 2, Informative

What did you expect? The EU is all about economy. It used to be called the European Community, and before that the European ECONOMIC Community. The first thing they set out to do was the common currency. Yes, money. Not a simple, straightforward Constitution reaffirming the inalienable rights of the people and the form and limits of government.
No. Not at all
Money. And trade. The "constitution" they later produced is a horribly bloated piece of shit that enumerates tons of "rights" that are impossible to grant and therefore are pretty much null.
Euro-peons have better get used to this. They are expendable cogs in the EU economic machine, and will be treated as such. Oh, well, they should be used to this. They sucked each and every king's cock for centuries, they'll do it again.

--
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
Re:Yes, dissolve the EU. by PopeRatzo · 2009-07-30 06:49 · Score: 3, Insightful

They are expendable cogs in the EU economic machine
It's not just Europe. Here in the US, corporations have somehow managed to convert our Constitution, an Enlightenment-era document about the rights of the individual, into an EULA which basically grants unlimited power to corporations, while enslaving anyone who is not in the top .2% ownership class.
And they managed it while hardly changing a word. Just in the last decade for example, activist judges on our Supreme Court, such as Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts, have overturned an unprecedented number of laws implemented by Congress and signed by the president, finding in favor of corporate interests and against individual rights at every turn.

--
You are welcome on my lawn.
Re:Yes, dissolve the EU. by TheSpoom · 2009-07-30 08:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

See, here's the main thing I don't like about this (apart from the whole censorship thing, which is obvious).
The Netherlands is asking The Pirate Bay to block its own citizens.
Why doesn't the Netherlands simply block access to The Pirate Bay?
Of course, the answer is simple: to shift the blame away from government.
Too bad most people who go to TPB are smarter than that.

--
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Re:Yes, dissolve the EU. by ReinoutS · 2009-07-30 09:52 · Score: 3, Informative

Totally agree. Furthermore, *thanks* to the EU there is the European Court of Human Rights that one can turn to when all regular courts have failed you. If I recall correctly, Intel even announced recently they would appeal their antitrust fine there. That court has delivered some important verdicts in the past few decades.

Fun Facts by Hunter0000 · 2009-07-30 05:53 · Score: 3, Funny

Now I know there is a limit on the fine, but for the sake of ridiculousness...

Population of the Netherlands, 16,500,156
Fine per person per day, US $42,300
GDP of Sweden, US $484,550,000,000

Number of years required for the entire economic output of Sweden to pay back for a week of TPB usage by the entire Netherlands, 10

Where do they come up with these damn numbers?

Unable to go != unwilling to go by QX-Mat · 2009-07-30 06:01 · Score: 2, Interesting

I read the rough translation over at http://drop.io/breinpaidforthis_english

The only bit interesting was:

1.3 Since they summoned did not show up at the summoning they can now not fall back on the letter they have sent from 27th of juli 2009. Since they have said they were not going to be in court at the date appointed they can not fall back on not knowing about the summoning (article 142, lawbook of the netherlands Civil rights)

In most jurisdictions, if hold yourself out as intentionally disobeying an order of the court, they can throw the book at you in your absense. It all hinges on how the judge decides to interpret your letter of intent - they can be strict and litteral, or understanding and wide. Saying you will not be attending is very different to being unable to attend, regardless of whatever else said. Consider, "I am unable to attend the meeting because a family member has died and I am at the funeral at that time. I will not come." and "[at that time]. Please rearrange meeting". The latter indicates intent to come, whereas the former does not.

I find it hard to believe that they don't have prescribed methods of good notice - ie: in the UK good notice can be at their abode, registered address, or place of work. Only when you have "good notice" can you reply on preceedures in absense.

Matt

No Nigel Powers yet? by sconeu · 2009-07-30 09:17 · Score: 3, Funny

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

--
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.

Re:Examples? by hairyfeet · 2009-07-30 09:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

Well, I don't know which ones he is talking about but i would call taking away the right to own property a pretty big one. Think they didn't take it away? Before they could only pull eminent domain if it was in the interest of the entire community, like running an electric grid to power an entire community. Now SCOTUS has ruled they can take your land away to give it to Walmart for a new supercenter. I'd say that was a pretty big change.

--
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.

Nope by Otis_INF · 2009-07-30 19:00 · Score: 3, Informative

- if they appear in The Netherlands, they can be arrested.

No that's not true, it's not a criminal charge, it was in civil court. You can only be arrested if you have committed a crime. If they're not paying, according to the court, and they appear in the netherlands, the court could order to confiscate their belongings till the sum they have to pay is fulfilled, but that's about it. So i.o.w.: it's likely they just don't give a toss about this ruling.

if they continue to not block the Dutch, then BREIN may have a case for Dutch -ISPs- to block TPB as alternative means of getting TPB blocked.

No, as BREIN isn't associated with the public ministry (Openbaar Ministery) which is the authority which sues people/legal identities in criminal court. BREIN is a civil organisation like any other company or foundation, and therefore has no authority to order anything from anyone. An ISP isn't involved in this (otherwise phone companies should also be held liable when a criminal tells a mate to commit a crime) and therefore can't be ordered to do anything.

The judge is clearly not aware of what internet is. This is common among judges btw. I also find it weird that a civil organisation can censor the internet (through civil court) for people who aren't involved in the lawsuite.

--
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.

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The Pirate Bay Ordered To Block Dutch Users

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