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Parents Baffled By Science Questions

Pickens writes "The BBC reports that four out of five parents living in the UK have been stumped by a science question posed by their children with the top three most-asked questions: 'Where do babies come from?', 'What makes a rainbow?' and 'Why is the sky blue?'. The survey was carried out to mark the launch of a new website by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills called Science: So what? So everything."

131 of 656 comments (clear)

  1. obvious answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    In the UK?!

    Why, I'll bet we Americans could get stumped even easier!! take that, britian!

    1. Re:obvious answers by baKanale · · Score: 2, Funny

      What makes a rainbow?: God

      No, that's all wrong. Rainbows are made by the Government!

    2. Re:obvious answers by crackspackle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why, I'll bet we Americans could get stumped even easier!! take that, britian!

      From links found on the sciencesowhat site:

      Are you more science-savvy than the average American? Take the quiz and find out.

      While we're at it, answers to why the sky is blue and other questions.

  2. People definitely neglect science... by JordanL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I always was interested in science, and when I was younger, it drove me to learn things on my own. While I was in high school, I substituted for a teacher a few times...

    But I was always amazed at how some people were so baffled by the simplest things that are very easy to learn about.

    The everyday person needs to know more science. Unfortunately, many people who do know a lot of science act religious. They treat people who don't know it as inferior, and I believe that turns a lot of people away from learning about it. Not because they think science is less valid, but in a sense, because they don't want to be like the jackass that just got done making them feel worthless.

    Honestly... I think people who know a lot of science are probably the biggest problem with science education.

    1. Re:People definitely neglect science... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      FTSummary:

      Where do babies come from?

      From the sixties:

      Some parents asked their son, "What do you want for Christmas?"

      He said, "I want a watch."

      So they let him.

    2. Re:People definitely neglect science... by davester666 · · Score: 3, Funny

      How did we learn about things before google?

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:People definitely neglect science... by morghanphoenix · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The question is, how many are baffled, and how many just don't care to learn it? Learning for the sake of learning doesn't seem to be popular anymore, people squeeze by with the bare minimum they can cram into their skulls so there's more space left over for American Idol, Reality TV and celebrity gossip. At least that is what I see here, I can't think of any reason it would be any different in the UK.

    4. Re:People definitely neglect science... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please describe a point in history where it was ever popular...seriously, there will always be a distribution of intelligence, quit bitching that you're on the higher end of it.

    5. Re:People definitely neglect science... by ldrydenb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In "The Demon Haunted World", Carl Sagan recalls a taxi driver who professed to be very interested in science ... then asked Sagan about flying saucers, Atlantis, etc.

      Sagan describes his sadness at having to tell the guy that so many of his interests are "baloney" ... and his anger at an educational system that didn't equip the guy with the knowledge to distinguish science from pseudo-science.

      A couple of decades later, school science teaching still seems to be less about critical thinking and more about absorbing facts handed down from on high. I imagine that most science *teachers* wish it were otherwise, but are bound by the curriculum.

    6. Re:People definitely neglect science... by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When I was young I had a book called "Weet je waarom ... ?" ("Do you why ... ?") which contained funny and informative answers to general questions. From silly kid questions to just generally how the world works. Beats google every time for kids, everyone should have one of these in their house and look up stuff with their kids for fun.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    7. Re:People definitely neglect science... by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One could make the argument that people who don't know any basic science ARE inferior. Yeah, sure, no one needs to know about electron orbitals and wave particle duality in their daily life. But people that believe that perpetual motion is completely legitimate and is being covered up by big oil companies and governments as some big conspiracy are fucking worthless. That isn't advanced science, that's standard high school junior year science. The people that pay absolutely no attention to that class have no idea why we should develop renewable energy because "we just need perpetual motion". Forget funding research into this area, let's waste time "overthrowing" corporations to get this magical source of limitless energy.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    8. Re:People definitely neglect science... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Renaissance?

    9. Re:People definitely neglect science... by JordanL · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was extremely lucky. My science teacher was a research scientist who quit researching for the specific purpose of "teaching correctly". It didn't matter what the cirriculum was, she forced you to reason your way to answers.

      I realized just how effective this was in my Freshman biology class when the student next to me, who was someone you'd probably refer to as a "typical black teen male" turned to me and said, "Man... you can't avoid learning in this class... yesterday I was makin' myself a sandwich and when I pulled the mayonase out I started thinking about what an immulsion was..."

      But teaching at that level is absolutely exhausting... the trick, I've learned, is to show people that things follow a logical path. People, especially young people, just wait until someone tells them what happens next. Often they don't even attempt to figure out on their own what happens next. Really good science teachers challenge you to do that first. Everything else follows.

    10. Re:People definitely neglect science... by JordanL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How do you propose you dehumanize people, and at the same time make them better?

    11. Re:People definitely neglect science... by dougisfunny · · Score: 4, Funny

      Soylent Green?

      --
      This is not the funny you're looking for.
    12. Re:People definitely neglect science... by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 5, Funny

      I will give you the gift of science but curse you with such poor spelling nobody will pay any attention to what you say because they are too incandescent with rage. *evil laughter*

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    13. Re:People definitely neglect science... by c6gunner · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People, especially young people, just wait until someone tells them what happens next.

      Nonsense. Young people are naturally curious. Only after years of exposure to a spoon-feeding "educational system" do they become mindless drones waiting to memorize the next factoid. If we can change the system to work WITH their natural curiosity, it won't be difficult to motivate them - the hard part will be trying to keep them focused on just one topic.

    14. Re:People definitely neglect science... by JordanL · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was refering to teenagers...

    15. Re:People definitely neglect science... by LaskoVortex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But people that believe that perpetual motion is completely legitimate and is being covered up by big oil companies and governments as some big conspiracy are fucking worthless.

      These aren't the people who should bother you. The people who should bother you are the people who don't understand why water boils, the people who think you can take antibiotics for a cold, the people who have no idea why ice floats, the people who don't know why hot air rises, the people who have no idea how an internal combustion engine works.

      To scientists, this stuff is like remedial math or basic reading skills. We recognize that this type of knowledge helps you function in the world. To non-scientists, as to the innumerate and illiterate, the value of this knowledge is entirely unappreciated and often viewed with contempt.

      --
      Just callin' it like I see it.
    16. Re:People definitely neglect science... by shani · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People, especially young people, just wait until someone tells them what happens next.

      Nonsense. Young people are naturally curious. Only after years of exposure to a spoon-feeding "educational system" do they become mindless drones waiting to memorize the next factoid. If we can change the system to work WITH their natural curiosity, it won't be difficult to motivate them - the hard part will be trying to keep them focused on just one topic.

      Nonsense. Anyone with experience with young children (say 2 to 5 years old) will know that kids are curious, but incredibly lazy. So they ask, "why?" and wait for an answer. And then they ask "why?" about that. And then "why?". And then "why?". And then "why?".

      If you don't teach them how to reason for themselves, then they behave exactly as the original poster describes. They just wait until someone tells them what happens next. It is work to show children that they can reason for themselves, or investigate causes on their own.

    17. Re:People definitely neglect science... by the_womble · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Learning for the sake of learning doesn't seem to be popular anymore

      Schools and universities are increasingly being measures by how well they prepare people for work - i.e. education is becoming more like vocational training.

      In Britain, the government has made schools a lot more centralised. Both schools are teachers have a lot less discretion.

    18. Re:People definitely neglect science... by JWSmythe · · Score: 4, Insightful

          Unfortunately, your rant isn't all that misplaced, although this may not be the perfect audience.

          People *can* be smart. They likely won't be, because they can (almost) always get someone else to do it for them. If they didn't have a microwave oven, they wouldn't be able to cook themselves dinner. If they didn't have IT tech support, they wouldn't be able to work a computer. If they couldn't have their car towed to a mechanic and repaired, they wouldn't get from point A to point B.

          We're all guilty of this to some degree. If I couldn't just buy gas for my car at a convenient location, I'd be hard pressed to refine my own fuel. Unfortunately, it's rough to increasingly difficult to find places close to work where I could raise my own food or pump my own water. (and yes, I don't do these right now because of this). Finding someone who could make their own nails or prepare their own timber to build their own house is virtually impossible. These days, if you dropped most people off from the city into vast wilderness, they'd be at a loss to feed themselves, but they'd tell you about what they saw on Survivorman, or some other reality show.

          We're in a spoonfed society, which isn't getting any better any time soon. Well, unless you have any belief in the 2012 prophecies. I take them as an interesting talking point for a "what if", but I give the odds of something happening right up there with Y2k. It'll be a well discussed non-event. If you took an arbitrary group of 20+ people and dropped them in the wilderness, how long would they last? I like the show "Lost", but honestly believe they wouldn't survive more than a couple weeks, even without all the other character interactions. You'd see a group of 20 who died from starvation, dehydration, exposure, or disease from poorly planned waste disposal (mental note, don't shit in your fresh water supply).

          Welcome to modern society. You'll always be dependent on someone else, and pay dearly for those services. You are right, we're all minor stones in the great wall of civilization, and no one will notice of one (or thousands) don't work quite right.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    19. Re:People definitely neglect science... by tygerstripes · · Score: 2, Funny

      I first read this as "Where do babies come from? From the sixties!"

      --
      Meta will eat itself
    20. Re:People definitely neglect science... by martas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      this reminds me of Arthur C. Clarke's Final Odyssey (3001), where nobody knew anything except what was required to do their job, simply because they already had to learn too much. the difference, though, is that few people are operating at the limit of their mental capacity these days (or any other day, for that matter).

    21. Re:People definitely neglect science... by CarpetShark · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The question is, how many are baffled, and how many just don't care to learn it?

      Yep. Some people have much more pressing issues, like getting by on/below the poverty line. And maybe they don't think it's even the right stuff to be filling their kids' heads with. Yes, that should probably change, but I think there's definitely an overestimation of science's significance (in terms of awareness rather than potential) to the average person going on here.

      That said... I think there is one overriding factor that could sort it all out. And it's a factor that I never see discussed in terms of parenting skills or raising kids. That factor is: your kid just asked a serious question about life. If you can't answer it, go the fuck out and find the answer, and give it to him. Basically, have some respect for the child's questions... he's obviously asking because it's important to his development in some way.

    22. Re:People definitely neglect science... by ShakaUVM · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >>Please describe a point in history where it was ever popular...seriously, there will always be a distribution of intelligence, quit bitching that you're on the higher end of it.

      During the space race. My mom was a literature person, but even she got interested in science and started reading a lot of Heinlein, etc., and now writes sci-fi of her own.

    23. Re:People definitely neglect science... by Pentagram · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Anyone else find it annoying when people explain the joke so they can show everyone else that they got it?

    24. Re:People definitely neglect science... by antirelic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wrong. A vast majority of people have always just learned enough just to get by. There has never been a period in human history where the vast majority of people sat around reading philosophy and physics books and discussed xyz science discovery. Call it human nature, but people tend to focus on the things that are most entertaining to them, and most people just want to know enough to have a decent discussion with the rest of the people around them.

      I cant recall the last time I sat down with anyone and chatted about "Cirrus clouds", but this is the crap they teach in 5th grade. Why? Because the 14th century concept of the "new man". Its a failed paradigm that we still cling to: people being smart all around.

      The education system, I'd say across the world is completely outdated and is a perfect example of a government run system. Even with all the technological advances available to schools, we still use the 17th century lecture style instruction method across the globe. We cram 30 students into the room with 1 teacher, and force everyone to learn at one pace: from the smartest to the dumbest. This made sense when schools taught the basics: reading, writing and arithmetic. This system was never meant to produce "college students". No, college students came from "wealthy" families that could afford nice schools with small classes that offered more personal attention from the academic instructor.

      Intrusive government in the western world in cooperation with the unions work diligently to keep schools with a certain child to teacher ratio, in order to ensure more "jobs", not more educated children. Lets face it. You can put 100 children into a curriculum and augment it with a computer learning system and easily handle it with 1 teacher. This is being done with colleges all across the nation, right now. The teacher simply helps answer question while the computer handles the bulk of the instruction (yup, you can even complement the learning with pictures, videos, audio, etc..). Let the kids learn at their own pace and see what happens.

      You wont get this though. Because we live in a world that demands "social justice" aka: forcing the smartest to be clumped in with the dumbest and the laziest.

      --
      20th century Marxism is not progress...
    25. Re:People definitely neglect science... by skiman1979 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I experience this all the time with my 3-year-old daughter. She hasn't quite gotten to the "why, why, why, why, why?" stage yet, but she does absorb a lot of information without actively trying to discover it. Often times when she misbehaves, instead of just yelling at her and putting her in a corner in timeout, I will sit down and talk with her:

      daughter: *cries*
      me: what's wrong, why are you crying?
      daughter: I sad with you
      me: why are you sad?
      daughter: umm... daddy yell at me
      me: why did daddy yell at you?
      daughter: because... cause I don't know, I just can't.
      me: you can't what?
      daughter: I want to play with my toys
      me: but it's dark out. It's bedtime. We don't play with toys for bedtime
      daughter: *cries*
      me: if you go to sleep nice and quiet, you can play with your toys in the morning
      daughter: *sniff* ok...

      I just try to get her to discover and communicate why she's upset and what she can do to fix it, instead of just flat out telling her "put the toy down and go to bed".

      --
      Having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.
    26. Re:People definitely neglect science... by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 4, Funny

      How did we learn about things before google?

      My folks had an Encyclopedia set. The World Book Encyclopedia. When we learned about sperm and eggs and embryos and fetuses in school, I became curious as to how the man's sperm got into the woman. Not only was I curious, I was concerned. I certainly didn't want something like that happening: fathering a child simply by kissing a girl or holding her hand, so I figured I better find out before I got in trouble. So I pulled out the first "S" volume.

      The article on "Sex" (human) starts out quite dry enough, describing relationships between the sexes and how they develop and change as children mature. It discusses dating and marriage and religious and social influences on intersexual relationships. Then finally the mechanics. As I recall, the description read like this: "A man and woman lie close together. The man places his penis inside the woman's vagina." This made a real impression on me: I figured I'd have to do quite a bit of growing before I could lie down next to a woman, take hold of my penis, and pull it over to the her vagina and plug it in like an extension cord! I was a little disappointed by how dull this sounded, but at the same time relieved that I wouldn't be accidentally spreading my genes around by casual contact.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    27. Re:People definitely neglect science... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      n = 1, way to be scientifically minded (and n = "your mom" is hilarious)

    28. Re:People definitely neglect science... by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To quote a wonderfully silly film, The Gods Must Be Crazy:

      Civilized man refused to adapt himself to his environment. Instead he adapted his environment to suit him. So he built cities, roads, vehicles, machinery. And he put up power lines to run his labour-saving devices. But he didn't know when to stop. The more he improved his surroundings to make life easier the more complicated he made it. Now his children are sentenced to 10 to 15 years of school, to learn how to survive in this complex and hazardous habitat. And civilized man, who refused to adapt to his surroundings now finds he has to adapt and re-adapt every hour of the day to his self-created environment. For instance, if it's Monday and 7:30 comes up, you have to dis-adapt from your domestic surroundings and re-adapt yourself to an entirely different environment. 8:00 means everybody has to look busy. 10:30 means you can stop looking busy for 15 minutes. And then, you have to look busy again. Your day is chopped into pieces. In each segment of time you adapt to new circumstances. ... No wonder some people go off the rails a bit.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    29. Re:People definitely neglect science... by pnewhook · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Science during the Roman empire was very popular. The knowledge, inventions, progress, vast libraries etc were unparallelled.

      Science only stopped when the empire fell and religion was allowed to rule.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    30. Re:People definitely neglect science... by gardyloo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So a college degree in engineering apparently barely starts to touch on many of the concepts that have been explored by mathematicians.

      Of course. But then most mathematicians, shown a cooling tower, would have no idea how to optimize it, or how to perform an FEM analysis on a structure, or how to calculate the SNR in a radio system, or any of a tremendous number of things that engineers can do. And if you ask a topologist, say, questions that a computer scientist would find commonplace, he may well founder. They're all based, ultimately, upon such things as Fourier series, but different disciplines take different tacks.
            One thing I've learned is that truly good thinkers will recognize when they're bumping up against something new, try to associate the new things with what they already know, and *not* be afraid to get some of the details wrong. If the mapping between the new and the old is even mediocre, that's often good enough to make some tremendous strides and learn the new material. Don't knock engineering know-how!

    31. Re:People definitely neglect science... by HungSoLow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Agreed! I had a book called "10,000 Interesting Facts" .... read it to pieces. But it's critical to not only get kids interested in knowing about the world around them but getting them to think for themselves, experiment, formulate ideas, etc... otherwise they're just trivia machines.

    32. Re:People definitely neglect science... by acklenx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...kids are curious, but incredibly lazy. So they ask, "why?"

      You have to seed the pool of reasoning... If they have no basis for "why" how can you expect them to reason out why something else happens?

      I used to push my son in a stroller while I went for a run. He would ask why ad infinitum, and I kept on answering way past his ability to comprehend. But I was amazed at his memory - even years later he remembered the "why" and was able to apply that to new questions - no longer asking simply "why" but asking instead, "is it because...", or "is it like..." but referring to thing that were way outside of his comprehension level at the time he was originally "spoon fed".

      I think the biggest problem is that teacher are used to being spoon fed themselves. How many teachers don't know the answer if it's not printed in the "teacher's edition" of the book?

      Typical Q&A with the science teacher:
      Why is the sky blue?

      Because it reflects blue light.

      Why does it reflect blue light?

      Because it's blue.


      It's a good thing they taught me to read early. That's about the only way I learned anything.

      --
      Never let a mediocre career stand in the way of a good time
    33. Re:People definitely neglect science... by sconeu · · Score: 2, Informative

      Good luck. You've got about 9 years before the older one becomes evil.

      [from someone who has lived through it]

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    34. Re:People definitely neglect science... by wbren · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Learning for the sake of learning doesn't seem to be popular anymore...

      Of course, because if you learned for the sake of learning you would be an intellectual, which is considered a bad thing in modern America. You can't have a beer with an intellectual, and intellectuals are not good at bowling.

      --
      -William Brendel
    35. Re:People definitely neglect science... by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's just a few things. While I agree we need to make changes, things are much better than they were 500 years ago.

      Yes, but things were also far better in the Roman emire than they were 500 years ago. They also had indoor plumbing, sewage, heating, roads (no electricity thought). They also had free education. Their only limitation was the level of scientific discovery at the time however the amount of invention created at that time was nothing short of incredible.

      People often make the mistake of thinking that all those benefits were enjoyed by the common people. They weren't. They were enjoyed by the upper 5-10% of the population, the Roman Citizens, who lived in Rome. The average person was just a peasant farmer, or a slave. A Roman Citizen is not like an American Citizen. In the US, and much of the industrialized world, all the people are citizens. In Rome, it was the 5-10% of the people that were citizens.

      All that happened during the fall of the Roman Empire is that the elites lost their city. The life for an average person in Italy changed not one iota.

      It's like saying thing during the 1990s were good, because the average American got to fly around in corporate jets. They didn't; only CEOs did. Roman Citizens were the elite upper class of their time. All the indoor plumbing and education was for this upper 5-10%, the Citizens. The rest of the people were slaves or peasant farmers.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
  3. Where do babies come from? by sonicmerlin · · Score: 2, Funny

    Everyone knows the stork drops them off. Duh.

  4. Calvin's Dad by nmb3000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Obviously many parents parents need to be more like Calvin's Dad. He was never stumped by Calvin's science questions.

    (More)

    --
    "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
    /)
    1. Re:Calvin's Dad by benjamindees · · Score: 3, Funny

      You left out the absolute best one.

      This isn't bad either.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    2. Re:Calvin's Dad by Shag · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Since my daughter was around 6, I've routinely made up answers that sound plausible at first but are clearly wrong if anyone over 5 thinks about them for a few seconds. She does the whole "thanks! ... um, wait, that's not right!" reaction, and I give her the right answers.

      I work in science, so I want her to know science... but I also want her to think critically and know when someone's BS'ing her. :)

      --
      Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    3. Re:Calvin's Dad by tygerstripes · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This is the basis for all of my interactions with inquisitive children, for a number of reasons:
      1. It's fun to lie creatively to the credulous, even if it's immoral
      2. Kids who aren't old or bright enough yet to spot the obvious lie wouldn't get much out of the facts anyway. A kid who is told a fact by a trusted adult will hold, use and quote it as gospel for years, without critically evaluating it. This is both annoying and problematic.
      3. When a kid is old/bright enough to spot the lie, they are ready to understand the truth rather than just believe it. This is an effective and useful way to gauge and encourage a child's intellectual development.
      4. Most importantly, when a child catches an adult out by deductive reasoning, and receives the truth as a reward... there is no greater sense of achievement, nor a more powerful incentive for genuine curiosity, in a child.

      Curious children come from creative and interesting parents.

      --
      Meta will eat itself
    4. Re:Calvin's Dad by Hatta · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also, when they catch you out in the lie, they learn that authority figures will lie to you. It's a great way to teach them the importance of their own critical thinking. It gets them in the habit of thinking about what they are told.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:Calvin's Dad by OwMyBrain · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most importantly, when a child catches an adult out by deductive reasoning, and receives the truth as a reward... there is no greater sense of achievement, nor a more powerful incentive for genuine curiosity, in a child.

      I couldn't agree more. I was actually quite overjoyed when my suspicions regarding Santa Claus and The Tooth Fairy were confirmed. Not sad and dejected as my parents had anticipated.

  5. Re:Pardon? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is the question "Where do babies come from?" really a science question?

    Yes. Geography to be specific. Croydon to be precise.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  6. Re:Where do babies come from !? by l00sr · · Score: 4, Funny

    Actually, intercourse is considered uncouth by Britons. Hence, they all adopt, but rarely stop to question where the babies come from in the first place. Curious, isn't it?

  7. You're excused by AdetheRare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A friend of mine is actually the first test tube baby born in the UK. "Your dad's a turkey baster" kinda demands more of an explaination

    1. Re:You're excused by tsa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      According to this article she is 31 years old now. Can you congratulate her from me? ;)

      --

      -- Cheers!

    2. Re:You're excused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Her dad is not a turkey baster. Her dad is a wanker.

    3. Re:You're excused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sometimes you people just creep me out :)

  8. Re:Pardon? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Regardless of how you categorize it, if a parent can't answer to a child where babies come from it's not for lack of knowledge.

  9. I don't believe it by fremsley471 · · Score: 5, Funny

    There is no way that children in Britain think blue is the colour of the sky.

    1. Re:I don't believe it by Fotograf · · Score: 2, Funny

      yea captain obvious! but we know how rainbow looks!

      --
      God's gift to chicks
    2. Re:I don't believe it by julesh · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is no way that children in Britain think blue is the colour of the sky.

      You missed the point of the question. It's usually asked when the kid gets to about 5 or 6 years old, looks up at the sky one day and finds that it's a different colour to what it usually is. It's normally asked with a hint of fear (similarly, perhaps, to "why is the plane's wing on fire?"), and quite frequently during a foreign holiday.

    3. Re:I don't believe it by TheLink · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah and those from Manchester, UK might ask - "What is that bright thing in the sky? It hurts my eyes!".

      "It's the Sun, my dear"
      "But the Sun is the newspaper you don't let me read!"
      "Yes, and you're not supposed to look at either, because you might go blind".

      --
  10. "Why is the sky blue?" - Not so easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Clifford Stoll's astronomy PhD orals seemed to be going swimmingly.

    Just as everybody was about to gather their papers, shake hands and head home, his rather sadistic PhD supervisor asked him to explain why the sky is blue.

    The sharks sensed blood in the water and began circling for the kill.

    Don't assume a question is easily answered just because it seems simple and innocuous at first glance.

    1. Re:"Why is the sky blue?" - Not so easy... by treat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed, so far no one has posted the answer. And even though the total of the articles on wikipedia seems to be the most concise yet thorough explanation I can find, it fails to impart an actual understanding.

      I doubt anyone can explain why the sky is blue in a way that doesn't involve a partial explanation. I doubt anyone here could explain it to a child in a way that the first child could explain it to another.

      Just saying "Rayleigh scattering" doesn't answer it. Nor does copying the formula for it or being able to calculate the formula. None of this contributes to actually understanding it.

    2. Re:"Why is the sky blue?" - Not so easy... by the_other_chewey · · Score: 3, Informative

      My understanding is that it's density differences. Light bends when it goes from air to water, for example, because of the difference in density. Now air has small density variations. For the short-wavelength blue light, it is going through air whose density is continually changing. So it's path goes all over the place. But for the red light, with almost twice the wavelength, the density changes are lot more averaged (since it's bigger), so it doesn't see the density changes so much, so pretty much goes in a straight line.

      Your understanding is - sorry - entirely wrong. The wikipedia article actually does a more or less decent job at explaining it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering
      The basic thing: Light scatters off the molecules of the air (no density variations needed). The higher the lights frequency (i.e. the bluer it is), the more it scatters.
      So we see lots of scattered blue from all directions, but a lot less of scattered red, yellow, green, etc.

      And because the atmosphere isn't thick enough to scatter a large amount of the colours on the red end of the spectrum, those come through more or less unscattered.
      At dusk or at dawn, the light you see travels much longer distance in the atmosphere, and other colours scatter too. That's the main reason why sunrises and
      sunsets are red - that's the only colour making it through.

    3. Re:"Why is the sky blue?" - Not so easy... by the_other_chewey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That wikipedia article describes the _characteristics_ of that type of scattering, but it doesn't really explain WHY the light gets scattered that way.

      The gremlins do it. Seriously, "why" is not a question that is scientifically meaningful. The only sensible answer is "because".
      Of course, the Rayleigh scattering can be explained using quantum physics - but this would just shift your "why" to why things
      in the quantum world behave like they do. And finally, it will always arrive at a point where science has no clue.

      Science is descriptive and predictive, it will however never deliver some kind of "justification" for the behaviour of stuff.
      "Why" implies a motivation to do something one way and not another - the universe doesn't deliver those. The scientific question is
      a simple "how?".

  11. demonizing groups by bogotronix · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This type of news item is sort of a cheap shot by journalists. It's an old trick that probably dates back to antiquity--look how stupid these people are, they can't answer simple questions! And the consumer rolls their eyes, feels superior, etc. Look on youtube [below], there are some hilarious videos about Americans, British, Germans being "stupid". The vids were done as an exercise in psychological manipulation. One example.

  12. Re:Pardon? by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A child asking "Where do babies come from" isn't "Daddy, explain to me what biological processes occur when a man ejaculates in a woman's vagina while she's ovulating." It's the physical "where do babies come from?" i.e. Are they brought by a stork? Are they bought at a store? Is there biology involved anywhere in the process regarding baby making? etc.

    So no, "where do babies come from" is NOT a science question when asked by a child.

    The question that the child would ask if he wanted to know the biology would be something like "how do babies grow in mommy's tummy?"

    --
    -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
  13. Disagree by aepervius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Honestly... I think people who know a lot of science are probably the biggest problem with science education.

    The problem is not that science people are arrogant, the problem is that they come way too late in education (to properly explain the science method) at a point where all people did for the previous year was swallow factoid and regurgitate them (lower school science lesson is usually just that), and combined with the fact science is seen as nerdy/geeky and thus only for contempt. Later those same people which admire jocks and despite nerd become parents and are baffled by science question.Add to that the fact that science is sometimes seen as attacking/going against their own religious belief (in reality science as a method do not care for religion (except social science) what cannot be falsified is ignored)...

    --
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    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Disagree by Afforess · · Score: 2, Funny

      They are used up on the last story, about Googles GFS, making every lame comment funny/

      --
      If our elected representatives no longer represent us, do we still live in a Democracy?
  14. Re:Wow, just wow by PitaBred · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes. But it's not ok to drive a car without at least half an idea about where the gas goes, how to use the turn indicator, and so on. The same thing is true about science... people are muddling though life without knowing where the gas pedal is. They can't critically evaluate things because they don't have the basis to do so. Hell, just look at the "young earth" morons. They are so ignorant that they can't even properly evaluate evidence when it's presented to them. That is a failure of education.

  15. Re:Pardon? by value_added · · Score: 5, Funny

    Geography to be specific. Croydon to be precise.

    Alternatively:

    Genealogy. The milkman to be precise.

  16. I have a feeling that by defireman · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Well honey, would you like to see a live demonstration?" would be unwise to say to a child.

  17. Re:Pardon? by dziban303 · · Score: 5, Funny

    how is babby formed?
    how girl get pragnent?

  18. Re:Where do babies come from !? by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 2

    This is the UK where kids are becoming parents at 13. They're in the maternity ward before they get sex-education. And those are the good kids, the other ones are knifing each other.

    --
    If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
  19. Embarrassing by gweihir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At least the first one the parents need to be able to answer, it they halfway have a memory left. As to the technicialities of the issue, if they really cannot talk about sex, they should be aware that they are putting their children at high risk of messing it up later (unwanted pregnancy, STDs) and fix this disgrace immediately. There are books that help and that deal specifically with how to explain this to your children. Go to your local bookstore and ask! Grossing the children out is a minor and acceptable possible side effect. But they need to be told!

    As to 2. and 3., I can understand that. These are actually advanced wave-physics questions.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  20. Re:More science questions by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Funny

    The answer to "rainbow" and "sky blue" is "refraction", so I'm guessing that's probably where babies come from as well.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  21. Re:Pardon? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    However, surely parents should have a certain amount of... familiarity with the answer to, "where do babies come from?"

  22. Just some parental advice... by dbet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If this happens to you, the best thing to do is say that you don't know and go find out together with your child. This not only gives you something fun to do, it can help teach them to explore the internet, a bookstore, or a library. Most importantly it teaches them how to learn things.

    The cool thing is, most of these basic questions have many levels beneath them. For example, most of you know why grass is green, but why is chlorophyll green? Why is green a really odd color for plants to use? Would "orange-phyll" (if it existed) work too? This leads to an exploration of chemistry and physics as well as biology.

    Another good thing to teach is how people know this stuff - the idea that the natural world is knowable through discovery and testing, and that we decide as a community what "the truth" is, based on what we observe and what makes sense. Kids can certainly learn the idea of what science is at a pretty young age, even if complex logic isn't possible until, I don't know, early teens? Hmm, something to look up!

  23. Sometimes "I don't know" is a brilliant answer by Torodung · · Score: 4, Insightful

    After all, when asked about the color of the sky, a parent could answer like this.

    Let us give thanks that some people have the sense and honesty to say "I don't know," and try not to look down our noses at them. Bad parenting is darned hard to unlearn.

    --
    Toro

  24. Re:Pardon? by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And yet, you can give a scientifically correct answer omitting unnecessary details:

    Daddy gave mommy a baby-seed that growed in her tummy until the baby was ready to be born.

    The trick is to explain things on a level kids can understand.

    I can also warmly recommend the TV-series Once Upon a Time... Life, which is biologically very correct yet entertaining to watch.

    --
    .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
  25. Re:Pardon? by rachit · · Score: 5, Funny

    However, surely parents should have a certain amount of... familiarity with the answer to, "where do babies come from?"

    Huh? Why would they? Its not like they get to chat with the stork when the baby is dropped off.

  26. hurr by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Informative

    The connection between Rayleigh scattering and refraction is very fundamental. Both are due (from the point of view of electromagnetic theory) to the electrical polarization of the scatterers by the incident electromagnetic wave. The waves re-radiated by the dipoles induced in the scatterers by the incident field are incoherent, as seen by an observer located to the side of the incident beam of light. But, in the forward direction, the re-radiated waves are completely coherent with the incident waves, but retarded in phase. These retarded waves make the incident wave train propagate more slowly in the scattering medium than in a vacuum; the ratio of the speed of propagation in vacuo to the speed in the medium is just the refractive index of the medium. Thus refraction and Rayleigh scattering are two aspects of a single phenomenon.

    http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/explain/extinction/extintro.html

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    1. Re:hurr by kmac06 · · Score: 2, Informative

      OK this is getting somewhat technical, but I totally disagree with that statement. That's like saying atomic transitions are the same thing as refraction, since the reaction to the polarization is really off-resonance pumping.

    2. Re:hurr by kmac06 · · Score: 3, Funny

      And yes, I am a quantum optics physicist.

  27. Re:More science questions by kmac06 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The sky is not blue due to refraction. It is blue due to Rayleigh scattering, which increases as the wavelength decreases.

  28. Re:And my recent trip to the zoo... by Thanshin · · Score: 3, Funny

    I swear, if I hear ANYONE say, "LOOK, A MONKEY!" again and point to an orangutan or gorilla I'm going to kill someone.

    I've also heard penguins being called fish, Bats called birds and just about anything small and furry, mice.

    Some people don't need any animal classification beyond "fish - meat - not food".

  29. Re:Keep in mind by superwiz · · Score: 2, Funny

    Actually, when I read about anyone who was educated in 1800-1950, I feel like a complete ignoramus.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  30. Re:Pardon? by Quasimodem · · Score: 5, Funny

    When I asked my mother where I came from, she said, "Cleveland."

  31. The parents need internet! by VincenzoRomano · · Score: 5, Funny

    They'd try WolframAlpha.
    That's it!

    --
    Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
    For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
  32. Re:Damn Lies and Statistics by Eivind · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's worse than that. They say 4 out of 5 parents have at *some* time been stomped by some science-question of their child. And also that the top questions are those mentioned.

    That doesn't imply that 4 out of 5 parents are stomped by any of *those* questions. I've got a 5 year old, and sure I've had -many- questions I don't know the answer to. I generally respond by some variant of "I don't know, but let's find out together".

    Why -does- starch work as a lubricant ? What -is- that insect named ? How much can an elephant weigh ? Sure I can eyeball some of it, but I don't -know- the answer precisely.

    Then again, that's not really science. That's just facts. Science is a method, not a set of facts.

  33. Re:Keep in mind by Eivind · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, that doesn't follow. Anyone with even a bit of physics knows more than Newton ever did, that doesn't mean that he is today universally considered an idiot.

  34. Re:More science questions by Archimonde · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And if you don't explain the Rayleigh effect properly (as you did) you actually don't explain why the sky is blue. In other words, your answer isn't explanatory/informative much because you "explained" the explanandum by introducing another one.

    --
    Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
  35. Google agrees by dagamer34 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It turns out that parents don't answer their kids correctly, because when you type in "how to" into a Google search field, you get some pretty interesting (albeit sad) suggestions for search results. And to be honest, if children don't know where babies come from, then how do you expect them to NOT have kids at a young age?

  36. Re:Scientists baffled by parents' questions by blackraven14250 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Lose the attitude, dude. There's a bell curve on knowing raw amounts of any subject, and Slashdot just so happens to be much further up on it, especially in science-related fields, than your average person. Just because we're at and near the top doesn't mean we should ridicule them. It means we should help to educate them, so that by the time we're up further in our absolute level of knowledge, so are they.

  37. Misunderstanding the level required for answers by Kupfernigk · · Score: 5, Insightful
    A lot of people above are posting about "Why is the sky blue" being a hard question, Rayleigh scattering, etc. etc. But this is to miss the context, which is telling children. The level of an explanation depends on the ability of the explained-to person to understand.

    From this point of view, all that is needed is to be able to explain light from the sun is made up of all colors (no need to explain wavelengths) - which you can demonstrate with a bit of broken glass, no need for an official prism - and are then most of the way to the rainbow explanation - and that the blue light from the sun is spread out more by the atmosphere. You can demonstrate scattering simply by putting a little milk in a glass of water and shining a flashlight through it. This is a level of explanation suitable for a child under, say, 13, and already introduces a number of ideas about optics.

    As for where babies come from, even quite small children are quite safe with the idea that babies grow inside their mothers. Rural children can hardly avoid knowing this by the age of 3 or so. They need reassurance that it won't happen to them, yet, and they need a gradual increase of detail until they reach puberty. But they don't need to know about DNA, cell fission, fertilisation and so on in order to understand what causes pregnancy and how to avoid it until it's actually wanted.

    Personally, I blame not so much the dumbing down as the increasing formalism of science teaching. The criticism of science teaching in Brazil made by Richard Feynmann is now valid in much of the West today. We actually need to teach ideas with simpler, more familiar equipment rather than the special manufactured experiments in school labs, otherwise how can people see the relevance? The example above, of someone suddenly realising that mayonnaise is an emulsion, is a good one.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  38. Re:Results by Ethnic Group by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Citations please.

    I know you're just being a racist troll, but...

    From the numbers you provided, the sample groups were inadequate. Over the years, I've met many people, and had the opportunity to learn a lot about them. There are stereotypical and astereotypical people in every group. In a sampling of say 10 people, they may all be complete idiots, or rocket scientists. Looks are frequently deceiving.

    The IQ scores are almost always skewed. It's not how "smart" you are, but how educated you are. For example, I've known poor farmers who were not well educated, but through what they have been educated in, it's apparent that they are smart. A good farmer can repair his own equipment, sometimes with minimal tools. He can raise crops even in adverse conditions. He can raise cattle from birth to slaughter, and take care of any problem along the way. One in particular who would score miserably on a standardized IQ test, and never completed high school could look at the symptoms of an animal, and treat it properly. He kept his 40 year old truck on the road without ever taking it to a mechanic, and could revive almost any piece of farm equipment. He could solve real world logical problems in a heart beat. He wouldn't have a prayer solving an algebraic equation, could barely spell, and had no clue what to do with a computer though. He was never taught those skills.

    Then again, his neighbor would be hard pressed to repair a fence. Was he stupid? I don't know, I didn't know the neighbor well enough. Maybe he had simply never needed to repair a fence, and had never been taught. Could you?

    I personally know someone, approximately 30 years old, who usually scored just over 100 on an IQ test. She had never finished high school. She recently started taking GED classes. Now that she has picked up the required skills, she retested and scored 138. She didn't get any smarter in a matter of weeks. She simply gained the skills required to score better on the IQ test. Because I knew her personally, I knew she was smart. With the new score, she now believes it. What is Pi? What is an acute triangle? What does E=MC^2 mean? If you were never taught such things, those would mean absolutely nothing to you.

    Someone else I know was convinced she was stupid. She was told so for too many years. She decided to prove them wrong, and is a better programmer than I am now, fluent in several programming languages. I don't know her IQ score, but I'm confident in seeing her ability in fields that she has the skills in that she's brilliant.

    I've known people who score very low. I tried to tutor someone who was mentally retarded in reading. I was teaching him letters, which took a while. We then started on words and sounding them out. He could accomplish simple words, but it was difficult at best for him. He was told that he would never read, because he was too stupid. It was more that the extra time wasn't spent with him on it. He'll never be a rocket scientist or a surgeon, so yes, his IQ was low. And he is white of European descent.

    To be on topic, if you were never told why the sky was blue, would you know the answer? What if it simply wasn't important to you at the time you were told? You'd likely forget. Grouping "parents" into one general category is insane. Almost everyone can be a parent. Well, I'd say a decent percentage of Slashdot readers won't, because of social ineptness. :) I'm a parent of 3, and father-like figure to more. Sometimes the children are afraid to ask. "Where do babies come from?" may be too mysterious a question. I was asked recently about sex by a friend's son. He was afraid to ask his mother, and his father avoided the question. I answered age appropriately, and then told him it was fine to tell his mother. His reponse? "I can't talk to mom about stuff like that. She's a girl

    --
    Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
  39. Re:Pardon? by DeusExCalamus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    how is babby formed? how girl get pragnent?

    They need to do way instain mother who kill there babby!

    --
    "...Sleep comes like a drug in God's country Sad eyes, crooked crosses in God's country..."
  40. Re:More science questions by kmac06 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Rayleigh scattering and refraction are two divergent phenomena based on the same principle, sharing as much similarity as radar and x-ray imaging.

  41. Re:Pardon? by Caity · · Score: 4, Informative

    My mum just left a copy of the book Where Did I Come From? on the bottom shelf in the living room. I used to love that book (and the sequel "What's Happening to Me", about puberty) when I was a little kid - the pictures are adorable and it's pitched at a good level.

  42. What a show! by tygerstripes · · Score: 3, Informative

    Crikey, what a good show that was. Every single thing was personified in the cartoon - from corpuscles to neuro-electric transmissions to individual nucleotides producing proteins - and I learned more about human biology from that show than I did from 5 years of GCSE Biology (and the show was only on at about 6.30am every Sunday in the UK, about 20 years ago).

    Unfortunately I don't think it's been on TV for some time now, and I can't find it on DVD anywhere. If any of you out there are parents who want your kids to understand a little bit of biology, you can't do better than to show them this.

    --
    Meta will eat itself
  43. Correction by tygerstripes · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is available, but not in the UK (or US): here

    --
    Meta will eat itself
  44. Re:Scientists baffled by parents' questions by antic · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not to mention, display a good amount of passion in passing on that knowledge and hope some of it rubs off.

    (Dangerous mentioning rubbing and passion on /.)

    --
    'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
  45. Re:Pardon? by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem with this line of thinking is that parents not caring to discuss this topic with a child *are* acting irresponsibly. Consider it as a precursor of sexual education. So, yes, I think marking them up as idiots is 100% correct to do.

    You do know that there are books for preschoolers regarding this topic if parents don't want to discuss it with their own words.

  46. I was stumped by a question by my daughter by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Interesting

    She asked me what PH meant.
    I said (remembering my chemistry) "percentage hydrogen"
    "OK", she said, "why does it go from 0 to 14, and what hydrogen? like hydrogen in water?"
    Uhm... lets ring Grandad (my dad was a research chemist).
    A bit later...
    "He says its the inverse natural logarithm or "cologarithm" of the number of active hydrogen ions"
    Me "Uh.... that's great".

    Later that week
    "Did you get a good mark for your homework?"
    "Yes. Only the teacher said that for GCSE If I am asked what PH is just to put 'a measure of acidity and alkalinity', or the marker might not know and mark it incorrect'".

    1. Re:I was stumped by a question by my daughter by MartinSchou · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I had high level chemistry in high school as an elected subject. Our teacher was quite adamant about drilling us with critical thinking to our own answers - i.e. does this answer make sense.

      The reason being that sometimes your formulas give you an answer that just doesn't make sense, allowing you to give the correct answer.

      Then at the final exam, one of the 3% questions (very easy) was something like this:
      "Give the pH level for a 10^(-8) molar solution of HCl"

      Just using the formula -log(10^(-8) gives you 8, so that's obviously the answer, and according to our teacher that was the answer given by 85% of students country wide.

      Of course, this question is a trick question, because HCl is an acid, and acids have a pH value of less than 7. In this case, the HCl will be overpowered by the natural buffering effect of water, and water has a pH value of 7, making that the correct answer.

      There was only one school in the country, where all the students got that particular answer right. Made our teacher proud, but also rather disappointed in the other schools.

    2. Re:I was stumped by a question by my daughter by canajin56 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One mark out of four for having the correct answer to one significant digit. You get no marks for your work and explanation, sadly. Hence the inherent weakness of multiple choice: You get full marks for guesses, or for multiple errors canceling out, or for sheer coincidence.

      Water isn't pure H2O, it's 2 H2O in an equilibrium with OH- H3O+. So, don't forget about the H3O+ from the water! Because your numbers are so close, you'll have to redo the equilibrium equation (normally its just lost in the significant digits, so there is no point running the equation, you can just ignore it completely). Your H3O+ from the acid is 1e-8. And so, the total will be 1e-8 + x, where x is the value you'll get from your equilibrium equation. x^2 - 1e-8x -Kw = 0. Kw for water is 1e-14. Plug that into your quadratic equation, and you get x = 0.5e-8 + 1e-7. Go back to your original equation, and you have H3O+ concentration is 1.5e-8 + 1e-7. Take the negative log of that, and you get 6.94. So, as I said, with one significant digit, it's 7. Otherwise, it's not. You need the equilibrium equation to work with weak acids, so there's no excuse for never having heard of it.

      "Natural buffering effect of water" indeed...water doesn't have a buffering effect, shit dissolved in water has a buffering effect. If you're assuming pure water, then there is no such effect. If you're assuming non-pure water, did you account for the fact that those alkaline minerals dissolved in the water will make its pH greater than 7? Thought not.

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
  47. Re:More science questions by The+boojum · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's not really refraction. There actually is a refraction effect which is why we can see the sun at sunrise before it would be strictly visible over the horizon, and still see it at sunset after it's gone below the horizon. It's really more of a reflection -- think of light being scattered around by glitter except on a much smaller scale.

    Rayleigh scattering preferentially scatters shorter (bluer) wavelengths more strongly. When the sun is directly overhead, as in midday, light nearer to the reddish end of the spectrum will reach you directly while only the bluer wavelengths will have been scattered. The blue that you see is light from the sun that has been scattered towards you by the air molecules in the atmosphere. The opposite happens at sunrise and sunset to make it appear red; the light reaching you has a much longer optical path to go through so nearly all of the the blue wavelengths have been scattered away leaving only the reddish light to reach you.

    There's also a minor effect due to Mie's scattering off the dust and other particulates in the atmosphere. Mie's scattering deals with scattering by slightly larger particles than Rayleigh scattering.

  48. Re:Pardon? by FTWinston · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I fail to see why its less of a science question than "where does dark matter come from?" Surely "Where does X come from?" is always a science question?

  49. Re:Pardon? by pjt33 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    GP may be commenting on "growed". It's an irregular verb: the past tense is "grew". I presume this is a case of English being your second language, since you have a Finnish e-mail address. However, my best guess is that GP thought you were deliberately using an incorrect form with your children to simplify things for them.

  50. Re:Pardon? by cujo_1111 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Did she apologise after that?

    --
    If I point out that you are incorrect, making me a foe does not make you any more correct.
  51. Re:Pardon? by Virtual_Raider · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They may be idiots in your opinion, but that hardly means that they are UNABLE to answer the question.

    Please also consider that there are those that do not subscribe to your method of child rearing.

    Care to elaborate? I'm having a hard time coming up with a valid reason why a parent wouldn't want to answer that question from their children. There could be explanations like, for instance, the parents had an unwanted pregnancy, or a scarring sexual experience. But that is not a reason. So I can't see why a parent wouldn't want to give an answer tailored for the child's age yet still true.

    --
    +Raider of the lost BBS
  52. Re:Pardon? by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You do realize that you actually accuse us for being close minded, but you laud the people close minded enough not to be able to talk about sexuality. How wonderful...

    I tip my hat to you for the greatest hypocrisy I have seen in years.

  53. Re:Pardon? by xaxa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just take it on faith that in some cultures a child of 5 asking where they came from is likely to be told they were found under a cabbage plant.
    (Yes, that is a literal example).

    [What culture? Some places in the USA?]

    Most young children will be quite happy with "the baby comes out of mummy's tummy" (that's the answer I got when I was very young). Even better if you can follow it up within the next few days with "do you see that woman? Her tummy is big because a baby is growing inside".

    ("How did the baby get inside mummy's tummy?" "Daddy put it there.")

  54. Re:Pardon? by icebike · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Really? I didn't see any accusations being made.

    But now that you mention it, it sees you are pretty insistent that everyone simply MUST agree with your methods, where as I was suggesting there are other viewpoints.

    Now who is open minded?

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  55. Re:Keep in mind by dzfoo · · Score: 2, Funny

    My great-grandparents and grandparents were educated in the 1800-1950. How do you feel now?

          -dZ.

    --
    Carol vs. Ghost
    ...Can you save Christmas?
  56. Re:Science Questions by CarpetShark · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First, there's a point at which that three-year-old brat has asked "Why?" too many times today.

    I suspect there is never such a point, if you're raising your child properly.

    Then, there's the point at which the parent doesn't feel comfortable explaining topics like sex to a child within certain age ranges.

    Two things here: people shouldn't be having kids if they're uncomfortable with their motivations for sex or uncomfortable teaching a child basic things about life. Secondly, I think most of that discomfort with teaching kids about sex is largely fear of other adults thinking their child knows too much or is talking inappropriately.

    just to be quiet and let the parent be a person in their own right again.

    Too true.

    That's a lot more scary. I regularly see kids told off for daring to ask "Why?" or "Why not?"

    Uggh. At this point I'm hoping you're some kind of school inspector that has the power to get these people banned from teaching.

  57. Re:Pardon? by backbyter · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sounds like someone else needs to watch the DVD. :)

  58. Re:Pardon? by Fred_A · · Score: 2, Funny

    how is babby formed?

    how girl get pragnent?

    How come I don't learn English in school even though it's my country's official language ?

    No wonder parents are baffled. They can't understand WTF their children are talking about.

    "Honey ? Timmy asked me about those "babby" things again this morning"
    "You too ? I tried looking it up but I couldn't find anything."
    "It's probably part of this advanced science curriculum they have nowadays, we'll never be able to help our kids with such exotic topics being taught in schools, what were they thinking of !"
    "Couldn't they do simple things like human reproduction, particle spin, muons, halting states and how to meet girls ?"
    "We're so out of our league... we have to face it, we're old."

    --

    May contain traces of nut.
    Made from the freshest electrons.
  59. Re:Pardon? by digitig · · Score: 3, Funny

    Is the question "Where do babies come from?" really a science question?

    Ever heard of biology? You fuck!

    Fixed that for ya!

    --
    Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  60. Re:Pardon? by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So no, "where do babies come from" is NOT a science question when asked by a child.

    The question that the child would ask if he wanted to know the biology would be something like "how do babies grow in mommy's tummy?"

    You have to walk before you run, and you have to do a lit review before you can do an in-depth experiment. It most certainly is a science question, albeit a pretty rudimentary one, because it is based on the assumption that there is a consistent, verifiable answer.

    My niece (5) asked a series of very probing questions recently while she was holding her new baby cousin. She knew that her mother had a scar from a cesarean section, but, upon inquiry, found out that her aunt does not have such a scar. "How did he get out of your tummy?"

    She had put one of her assumptions up to challenge and found it wanting. Zombie Feynman says that she is doing science.

    --
    There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
  61. Re:More science questions by ignavus · · Score: 3, Funny

    Silly! The sky is blue because it is daytime. If it were night time, the sky would be black.

    Babies come from the hospital and rainbows from the ground (they arch up into the sky, and then come back down to the ground - rainbows, that is, not babies).

    --
    I am anarch of all I survey.
  62. Re:Keep in mind by digitig · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wow... you have no idea how advanced Newton's knowlege was do you?

    He practically invented calculus

    Leibniz wouldn't have agreed with you -- Newton got the credit for it, but then, he chaired the enquiry to decide who should get the credit.

    F = dP/dt is what he wrote down, something that many physics students don't understand.

    [citation needed]. Not that Newton said that force is proportional to rate of change of momentum, rather than saying that force is proportional to mass times acceleration (which I assume is what you were getting at), but that most physics students don't understand it. We covered that on the physics module of an electronic engineering course, and I don't think anybody had any problem understanding it (or the implication that relativity had less impact on Newton's laws than is commonly thought).

    There's also the slight problem that he seemed to place more emphasis on his pseudoscience than on his science, so talking about his knowledge as "advanced" is -- er -- optimistic. "Anyone with even a bit of physics" knows that there's no point in looking for the Philosopher's Stone, for instance. Maybe "anyone with even a bit of physics" couldn't have derived the science that Newton did, but I think it's fair to say that they know more science than Newton did.

    --
    Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  63. Re:Results by Ethnic Group by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think Einstein said it best (and much shorter) with this quote: "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."

  64. Re:Pardon? by mrsquid0 · · Score: 2, Informative

    One would hope so, but the reality is that one does not need to know anything about the biology of reproduction in order to have a baby.

    --
    Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
  65. Re:Results by Ethnic Group by mdarksbane · · Score: 2, Informative

    The problem is that the IQ test was never meant to reliably grade normal to exceptional people. It was devised as a way to diagnose the mentally handicapped that got blown completely out of proportion because it provide this nice, comparable number.

  66. Re:Keep in mind by TerranFury · · Score: 2, Informative

    GP, and I, would agree with you that Newton was brilliant. There's no argument that he wasn't responsible for the things you mention. The point is simply that he was nevertheless ignorant of more modern developments in physics (many of which we now consider "basic"); hence he is a counterexample to the assertion that people who "don't know" certain "basic" things are dumb.

    What "basic" concepts? Well for instance, rigid body mechanics including familiar ideas like "torque" and "kinetic energy of rotation" were developed after Newton (Euler is credited with those). Newton studied particles, and spheres -- which he proved behaved like particles for his purposes (celestial mechanics). Rigid bodies, which many freshmen are comfortable with (at least in 2d) were outside his purview.

    As Newton himself said, we stand on the shoulders of giants. Luckily for us, Newton is one of them. But standing on a totem pole of Newton, Euler, Hamilton, and Lagrange, we naturally see farther than he could on his own.

  67. Re:Pardon? by pnewhook · · Score: 4, Informative

    How come I don't learn English in school even though it's my country's official language ?

    If you are talking about the US, it has no official language.

    --
    Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  68. Re:Cash Register Magic by TerranFury · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm with HJED on this one.

    Can I work out the answers to those questions? Yes. And actually the specific examples given are quite easy. But give me a restaurant bill and ask me to work out my tax and tip and I'm likely to take quite a bit longer than someone "good at math" "should."

    But then, I formulate and solve all kinds of harder math problems on a daily basis. In fact, at a recent conference of control theoreticians -- whose field is heavily mathematical -- you should have seen them trying to work out how to split their restaurant bills.

    It's arithmetic that's the issue, and I freely admit I suck at it. I also freely admit that this is entirely my own fault, because I've never has the willpower to sit down and drill myself on it. I know and understand the algorithms. I can execute them. But I don't have the associations built up in my head between certain combinations of numbers (say, numerals and their nines-complement, or multiplication tables) the way other people do. I'm sure I could get quite good at arithmetic. But I find it mind-numbingly boring, and I have a terrible time getting myself to do anything that dull. I'll leave the execution of arithmetic algorithms to the computers.

    I think that what's basically at issue here is that we're assuming that anyone who can't do what we think is easy must be stupid. It's not true (a fact I need often to remind myself). They might just be interested in different things. Now, sometimes we might be right (without our belief systems) to dismiss those interests as banal. But at other times I think we just need to accept that different people would like to do different things -- and in fact this is the basis for civilization.

  69. spoonfed = civilisation by fantomas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Getting other people to do things for you, and not knowing how everything works is positive, it's called civilisation. Possibly people could live on this planet as complete autonomous islands, being completely self sufficient, but working together and sharing tasks is more efficient for everybody, frees up time, and allows for redundancy.

    You may be able to manage to maintain a 21st (or even 19th) century lifestyle all on your own but most people just wouldn't have the time to plant their own crops, grow cotton, weave their clothes, find metal ores, mine them, smelt them to produce metal goods, build petrol driven machines from the raw ores, learn enough medical science to undertake complex medical operations when accidents and illness occurred, raise children, find the time to teach them, still keep this going after you've had an accident and are laid up in bed for six months, etc.

  70. Re:Pardon? by gid · · Score: 3, Informative

    They need to do way instain mother> who kill thier babbys. becuse these babby cant frigth back it was on the news this mroing a mother in ar who had kill her three kids . they are taking the three babby back to new york too lady to rest my pary are with the father who lost his chrilden ; i am truley sorry for your lots

    Like seriously? Stumped by the question where babies come from? Maybe these parents should read slashdot because I'm sure 90% of us can answer all of these questions, although maybe that's too optimistic nowadays.

  71. Re:Pardon? by Convector · · Score: 5, Funny

    They haven't used storks since 1973 when the Ciconiiformes Rights Protection Act was passed. Nowadays the baby is usually sent by first-class mail.

  72. Re:More science questions by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well, alright then. The Rayleigh effect is caused by the movement of Lord Rayleigh's argon filled glass bicycle as he rushes through the atmosphere, held aloft by a flight of noisy seagulls. As the Baron passes across the sky, the prism-like spokes of the bicycle absorb the lower wavelengths of light in preference to higher wavelengths, like blue. The shape of the spokes also causes the blue light to scatter and sparkle brilliantly in all directions. This all happens so fast that the sky appears smeared with blue.

    When his Lordship retires to his manor for the evening, stowing the bicycle carefully in his garden shed, and letting the seagulls roost in the hayloft, the sky returns to its usual red colour. The sky is also red in the morning because although the Baron rises early, he prefers to take a brisk morning stroll and a swim, and reset his moustache.

    In fact, rainbows are also the result of this process. They are caused when the Baron's brightly coloured spoke reflectors become accidentally detached in rain, and continue to rotate an enormous velocities. The rainbow we see is in fact the blur as the reflector circles wildly.

    For his services in keeping the sky a pretty shade of blue, His Lordship was knighted by Queen Victoria and given the services of the Royal Navy in order to spread the gift of blue skies throughout the wide breadth of the British Empire, and indeed the world. And that's why the sky is blue now.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  73. Re:Results by Ethnic Group by kklein · · Score: 5, Informative

    I am a test designer.

    What you are describing is what happens to every test anyone ever writes with the best of intentions. We make a test to, say, place students into the right level of language classes, and the department starts using their gain scores for their grades in those classes, muddling placement and outcome--two different testing situations that would need different methods.

    Administration wants an instrument that matches the curriculum closer; you make it; they demand to know why it doesn't have X, Y, or Z. You point out that it isn't in the curriculum. They say "It should be!"

    It happens every time. Even BMI, which was basically designed to find starving people, has been repurposed to define physical fitness--something it is not designed to do and cannot accurately assess.

    People always misuse measures and then blame the person(s) who made them.

    Welcome to my world.

  74. Re:Results by Ethnic Group by mdarksbane · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And this is exactly why I oppose the repeated attempts to add more and more standardized testing to elementary education. Poor managers think that they can replace personal judgment with tests and statistics and systems. It's been shown to be a complete failure in industry according to every software engineering class I've ever taken, but education boards insist upon doing it for teachers and students.

    If anyone's interested in this sort of thing, The Mismeasure of Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man) is a really interesting look at the ridiculous motivations and mistakes that resulted in IQ becoming synonymous with intelligence.

  75. Re:Pardon? by Ironica · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A child asking "Where do babies come from" isn't "Daddy, explain to me what biological processes occur when a man ejaculates in a woman's vagina while she's ovulating." It's the physical "where do babies come from?" i.e. Are they brought by a stork? Are they bought at a store? Is there biology involved anywhere in the process regarding baby making? etc.

    So no, "where do babies come from" is NOT a science question when asked by a child.

    The question that the child would ask if he wanted to know the biology would be something like "how do babies grow in mommy's tummy?"

    No, children are extremely imprecise in their questions.

    When I tell my five-year-old "The wind is blowing really hard," and he says "Why?" he is sometimes asking "What processes cause the wind to blow harder?" and sometimes "How can you tell the wind is blowing hard?" and sometimes "Why are you telling me this, mom? I KNOW the freakin' wind is blowing hard, it nearly knocked me over." ;-) It also means "I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter" (i.e. conversation is fun, and this is how we continue it, right?)

    "Where do babies come from?" is the typical formation of a question from a preschooler, but it's not obvious what they mean by that. Sometimes they mean "Why does Jane's family have a new baby, and ours doesn't? Can we go get one?" And sometimes they mean "I know the baby came out of Jane's mommy's tummy, but where was it before THAT?" and sometimes they mean "How do we make sure we avoid ever accidentally having me a little sibling that screams all night?" and sometimes they mean "Teacher Diane comes from Mexico; all the babies I've ever seen happen to look Asian; what country do babies come from?"

    Before answering such a huge question, it's a good idea to find out what prompted the inquiry in the first place, to get a better idea what the question really is.

    And while the question may not be biology, it is almost certainly some sort of physical or social science. Inquiry about how the world works is a primitive form of science. Even if you won't run across the answer your child is searching for in a biology or physics text, the process of asking questions and evaluating answers is how we learn to do science.

    --
    Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?