New Wheel of Time Book — Chapter One Online, Released Oct 27

Tor Books has made the first chapter of the latest Wheel of Time book available to readers for free via their website. This is the first book to have work from Robert Jordan's replacement, Brandon Sanderson, since Jordan died in September of 2007. The Gathering Storm is complete and will be released on October 27th of this year. In addition, the prologue to this book will be available in e-book format on October 17th for $2.99. The whole of the Wheel of Time series will also be released as e-books with several of the books receiving new cover art as well.
Update: 09/07 23:42 GMT by KD : Reader Daniel Benamy points out that the correct release date for the prologue e-book is September 17.

Comments

Oooo ya

[moogied]

Whoring out a dead author's lifelong work for some extra cash.. gotta love it.

Re:Oooo ya

[MightyMartian]

It might even make sense, but Jordan was just about the shittiest successful author I ever read.

Re:Oooo ya

[FluffyWithTeeth]

That's really not the case here, he isn't Brian Herbert.

Sanderson's working entirely from very comprehensive notes, and entire portions of the book had already been written by Robert Jordan and just need to be glued together.

Re:Oooo ya

[DeadDecoy]

Not really...
Robert Jordan pretty much up and died in the middle of finishing his last book In Memory of Light. Leaving his family, publisher, and fans pretty much hanging. The recently got Brandon Sanderson to finish up the work; a very good author btw (see Elantris and the Mistborn series) who pretty much churned out part 1 of 3 in a year off of Jordan's notes. He was originally contracted to do 1 book but found it impossible due to how many threads were left open. I for one, am happy to see a good author finishing up this series in the original author's spirit (and with his family's blessing). So, as a fan I have to say fuck you for trolling.

Re:Oooo ya

[Errol backfiring]

What makes you think that? According to the article, the new author was selected by Robert Jordan's widow.

I think it is one of the most difficult jobs in the world to finish a bestseller series. You can almost never do it right. You are always "not the original author" and therefore second best or worse. I certainly hope that Mr Jordan left enough notes for the series to be finished in a consistent state. I think it takes a lot of courage to take up this task.

Oh. And I am grateful that I will know how the story further develops!

Re:Oooo ya

[blankinthefill]

I believe it has more to do with finishing the series than with extra cash... There are already 11 books in the series. Jordan said there would be one more (but there are actually going to be 3 more, not surprising with the amount of plot that needs to be wrapped up). I don't know of anyone that's read the series and liked it that would rather they left it undone, especially considering that Jordan left complete notes for the final part of the series, meaning that while the prose might not be entirely his, the plot is. (Yeah, yeah, nothing new under the sun, you can all shove it.)

Re:Oooo ya

[Zontar The Mindless]

I read the first 3 or 4 books thinking "This just has to start getting cool soon. It's got too much cool potential not to".

Silly me.

I think the only reason the later volumes even sold was because people didn't want to admit to themselves that they'd been persuaded to waste the time and money on the earlier ones.

Re:Oooo ya

[LurkerXXX]

That's one take on it. The other is to give the faithful readers of the series a much needed conclusion to a story. When Wheel was introduced, it was touted as book 1 of a 9 part series. The first few books were fantastic. Then Jordan decided to stretch out the series so as not to kill his money maker. Book 13 came and went with no conclusion to the story in sight, and Jordan seemed to be milking descriptions of everything in his world for all they were worth in order to extend the series. Unfortunately, he then became ill and died. It's a tragedy for his family. But it's also a loss to millions of fans of his who are left with a story they have invested a lot of time and money in, with no conclusion or closure. I, as a reader, would welcome a competent author, going by Jordan's writing and notes, completing the series.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen, brother. I think the problem is that he was telling an interesting story, but in an utterly inept way. He's the George Lucas of fantasy novels, but with braid-tugging-skirt-smoothing-castrating-bitch "women" instead of Jar-Jar.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed. To all the people bagging on Jordan. Move along, you don't like his stuff don't read it.

Re:Oooo ya

[stevey]

The problem with "notes" is that they might be contradictory, or fragmentary. Perfect examples of each would be Christopher Tolkien, and Brian Herbert respectively.

I think I've learned my lesson now - Regardless of how attached, disappointed, or involved I am I'll never buy or read any work which was created by somebody else after the author's death. They're always a disappointment, even if they shouldn't be.

(For example the upcoming "Douglas Adams" novel.)

Re:Oooo ya

[MightyMartian]

I just found the prose horribly ugly. The basic fantasy world was so derivative of Tolkien that I just wanted to barf, but if it had at least been well written, maybe I could have got past that, but it was trash. I'm a bit of a fantasy fan, particularly Tolkien and Moorcock, and Jordan was the toilet paper of fantasy fiction.

Re:Oooo ya

[MightyMartian]

Except that unlike Brian Herbert, the only actual story that Christopher Tolkien wrote was the chapter in the Silmarillion was The Fall of Doriath, because his father had only in fact written one version of that story, but in the earliest phase of the mythology, and it was entirely incompatible with the later variants. The entire History of Middle Earth series is JRRT's own writings, with Christopher Tolkien's essays and notes trying to clarify and relate various versions of his father's ever changing and rarely completed versions of the Silmarillion. CJRT apparently regretted his interference, though, after having read the History of Middle Earth series, the only alternative to rewriting the chapter was not to have released a published version of the Silmarillion.

I wish Brian Herbert would have just released the notes that his father had written about the Dune backstory and the sequel to the final Dune books. Instead he released just awfully-written trash (Brian Herbert ain't no Frank Herbert).

Re:Oooo ya

[mindbrane]

Thanks for posting that, because I couldn't read the guy's stuff even though I'm a big fantasy, sword & sorcery 'n scifi fan. I'd rather reread ancient stuff like Zelazny, Moorecock or even, tier down stuff like 'The Black Company'. I tried a couple of times and just couldn't bear up under his prose.

Re:Oooo ya

[LurkerXXX]

And I like the descriptions I've heard of Elric of Melniboné, etc. But I tried reading a few of Moorcock's books and stopped because I just hated his writing style.

Different people have different tastes.

Re:Oooo ya

[secolactico]

Not saying that Jordan is shitty, but quality is not a prerequisite for post-mortem whoring.

Ever read V.C. Andrews?

Re:Oooo ya

[causality]

I just found the prose horribly ugly. The basic fantasy world was so derivative of Tolkien that I just wanted to barf, but if it had at least been well written, maybe I could have got past that, but it was trash. I'm a bit of a fantasy fan, particularly Tolkien and Moorcock, and Jordan was the toilet paper of fantasy fiction.

Personally I liked the series. My worst objection to it is that while I was about 4 books into it, this thought kept occurring to me: "as a plot device, just how many times is he going to have main characters get captured while travelling?" It felt like anytime anyone was on the road to any village or any city, their capture and subsequent rescue was going to occupy the next several chapters. That got old. I never did finish the Wheel of Time series but otherwise I enjoyed the books I have read.

It's not unlike a similar feeling I had when reading King's Dark Tower series (which I truly enjoyed - it's an amazing work). I got a little tired of hearing about New York City, as I greatly preferred to hear about strange new worlds, not concrete jungles. That could be because I don't live in a large city and wouldn't want to, as I personally find them to be nerve-wracking and suffocating. They're the kind of place I wouldn't mind briefly visiting but living there is extremely unappealing to me. The hustle and bustle never inspired me the way the outdoors always does, so I may have a bias that kept me from fully appreciating this part of the series.

Re:Oooo ya

[Runaway1956]

Why have I not heard of him? Maybe I'll go torrent a couple of his books, and see if he can even write. The fact that some marketing agency is promoting this book is no indication that the author is even literate.

Re:Oooo ya

[nomadic]

The basic fantasy world was so derivative of Tolkien

Nah, it was derivative of Dune.

Re:Oooo ya

[quarterbuck]

Maybe you will like this book and will buy it.
But considering that the prologue is going to cost $2.99, the new book better be something like "Terminator 2" if it has to make the entire series popular.

Re:Oooo ya

[Mojo01010011]

I went up to book 10 before I quit. After 5-6 it was going downhill, but I thought Winter's Heart put it back on the right track. Crossroads of Twilight was such drivel I quit halfway through it. I don't know why he did this, but Robert Jordan's female characters were complete and utter b*tches and FAILED in life constantly. I just couldn't understand he couldn't write in more rational female characters .... Reading anything about any of the female characters enraged and frustrated me.

Re:Oooo ya

[causality]

I just couldn't understand he couldn't write in more rational female characters

Realism?

Just kidding. Mostly.

Re:Oooo ya

[AuMatar]

Moorecock? On a scale of 1 to 10, he rates a negative 5. He's quite possibly the only author I've ever thrown out rather than giving to the local library, because noone should be subjected to that schlock. Jordan had major issues with his later books, but he's Shakespeare compared to Moorecock. And Black Company isn't much better- it rates a 2.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

But he was chosen by a widow! What more could you possibly need? (and seriously, at least one poster has proclaimed the widow choosing like it's indicative of... something helpful. WTF?)

Re:Oooo ya

[Bashae]

I also loved The Dark Tower, and coincidentally I'm currently re-reading it after several years (still at The Gunslinger). I don't like large cities either, and have never lived in one, but I think King's portrayal of New York from the eyes of someone completely foreign and removed from (almost everything in) our world and everything we think of as "normal" is interesting and engaging, if not as cool as the Wastelands and the tale of Roland's past :)

As for Wheel of Time, I can understand where the parent is coming from. I have read the first 11 books and they're generally too long and boring and full of highly repetitive and unimaginative plot devices. I'll also add that nearly all of the gigantic cast of characters are extremely annoying and shallow and I have difficulty identifying with them, which doesn't exactly make a re-read *these* books appealing. I don't think I'll buy the new books now that Jordan passed away. I'm tired of seing this saga extended over and over while he was alive, and I definitely don't need to fall back into the same trap now that we don't even have the original author with us.

Re:Oooo ya

[Bashae]

How can people who never read it know that they don't like it?

It distresses me that fanboys like you are probably here on slashdot waving the flag of freedom of speech in almost every one of the several articles we get every week that deal with censorship, but whenever the subject of your fanboyism comes up you suddenly want to shut up everyone who disagrees with you ;)

Re:Oooo ya

[anyGould]

I just look on the bright side - at least the new author will actually finish the series

You can say a lot about Jordan, both good and bad (my wife likes the series, I wouldn't have read it if it wasn't in the house already), but the man did not know how to finish a story. I suspect he would have died with the series unfinished, whether he died now or 50 years from now.

Re:Oooo ya

[mindbrane]

Yabut, Moorecock wrote at a time when there were few outlets for the pulp fiction, fantasy guys like him had to pump out to survive. I always liked Stormbringer more than Elric who was just a weak, albino freak kept alive by magic potions and favours owed his family line by various spirits and gods. Much of Moorecock's stuff was cut 'n paste, but, again, those guys had to pump stuff out like junkies bleeding out in back alleys.

Re:Oooo ya

[Quothz]

Thanks for posting that, because I couldn't read the guy's stuff even though I'm a big fantasy, sword & sorcery 'n scifi fan. I'd rather reread ancient stuff like Zelazny, Moorecock or even, tier down stuff like 'The Black Company'. I tried a couple of times and just couldn't bear up under his prose.

I'm with you - and the parent, and the GP. I tried the first book years back and put it down unfinished. Still, it pains me to see even a bad author's work unceremoniously passed along to some hack who can't do original work. I feel the same way about Herbert, whom I never much liked, and Adams, whom I did. I fully expect to see Discworld books after Pratchett leaves us and the thought makes me cringe.

(Offtopic, but for the record, Zelazny is one a my favorite authors, and I'm forced to admit to never reading Moorecock.)

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

Earlier on he said he'd finish around the 13th or 14th book so I'd say he'd have finished around now either way.

But yeah. He really seems to ramble on quite a lot in his books instead of focusing on the development of the story. Quite a bit of the stuff he goes into is stuff that would be great in supplementary materials but bulks up the main books to an unusual amount.

That and he had a habit of using the same phrasing. Again and again and again.

Still fine with his books. I've read worse. I've read better as well, but I've also read far far worse.

Re:Oooo ya

[bane2571]

If you'd actually read the series you'd know that it is nothing like Dune, those books had a clear ending, wheel of time basically left the whole series one or two books away from the climax. The people that have read the 13 books would really like to see some kind of finish line even if it isn't Jordan's.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally don't find Frank's work to be all that great. He describes a wonderful universe with plenty of opertunity for interesting SF storytelling, but instead writes religio-fantasy set in an SF universe, with overly intricate plots. (The latter two books of the core trilogy in particular have plots with wheels in wheels in wheels, devised by various groups that have no idea how the others will act, yet set in motion complicated plans that require the others to act exactly as they do in order to work. That could even be explained away with the use of prescience, except that the entities that planned these absurd plots were not the prescient ones!).

On the other hand, Brian Herberts work uses the SF universe to tell SF, in a way I can enjoy.

For what it is worth, I am one of those apparently rare people who like SF, but detest fantasy.

Re:Oooo ya

[Dhalka226]

My experience was similar, but somewhat different. I actually really enjoyed the first three or four books, but after that it just started to drag. He'd introduce new character after new character and then spend hundreds of pages trying (and usually failing) to make me give a damn about them. Then, from that point on, you'd have yet another interruption to the main story line to deal with before you ever got back to it.

I quit somewhere around book six. It just got to be too much. The fact that there has since been *five* more books and they're still not done, with these last three still on the ledger, convinces me I was right to do that. In fact, the fact that Sanderson couldn't even wrap up all these damn sub-characters' plots in one book is telling enough that Jordan never stopped that nonsense and got to the point.

Still, I dragged myself through at least one book or so before I just couldn't take it anymore, and you're right about the reason: When books weigh in at 700-1000 pages and you're already 4-5 deep, there's a powerful incentive to keep plodding along to the end.

On a semi-related note, Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy I found to be very good. They picked a good author to continue the work, and if not for all this Wheel of Time stuff I probably wouldn't have found him. So I guess some good came of it at least.

Re:Oooo ya

[WitheringtonSmythe]

The father's wordlbuilding was inspired and pretty much un paralleled whereas the son's sf is derivative and uninteresting. If you want inspiration in sci-fi try Greg Egan.

Re:Oooo ya

[Guido von Guido]

I've really enjoyed some of Moorcock's books, but just could not get through many of the others. For instance, I liked "The Warhound and the World's Pain," but I just could not get through the sequel.

Re:Oooo ya

[mindbrane]

>I fully expect to see Discworld books after Pratchett leaves us

I've been reading Prachett since day one, and, maybe you're right, but, I think, Mr. Pratchett might take steps to see that doesn't happen. It's nigh on impossible to get a true read on a writer by h/is/er works but Pratchett strikes me as a man of deep integrity. I've this recurrent, waking "nightmare" of writers like Pratchett having their work extended and raped by product placement ads.

Re:Oooo ya

[metlin]

Well, yes. I discovered the Wheel of Time just before high school, and hoped that the series would be over when I got to high school. No luck.

I got to high school, I finished high school, I went to college, to grad school, got my first job (and subsequent jobs), met the woman of my dreams, started grad school the second time around - and in all this while, the man still hadn't finished the series.

And then he died. While I do feel bad for his family, I certainly wasn't pleased as a reader. I had spent countless hours reading the series, and years (17, to be exact) awaiting the conclusion of his books.

Now while I am unsure of the quality of Sanderson's writing, I do not imagine that it would be much worse than Jordan's spin - what Jordan had in the past 11 books could have been compressed in about 4. In either case, I'm just waiting for someone to finish the ending and be done with it.

Re:Oooo ya

[phoomp]

Same here. Got through the first few books, and stopped once I realized that it was going to take at least 15 years before I'd ever see an ending.

Re:Oooo ya

[LandDolphin]

Then, from that point on, you'd have yet another interruption to the main story line to deal with before you ever got back to it.

See, I enjoyed that, it made the world feel "real". Everyone has their own motives and goals and some believe Tarmin Giadon(Spelling?) is coming and some don't. But all of their actions have affect on the world and getting it ready for the final battle.

Re:Oooo ya

[jjohnson]

Melvin [Jack Nicholson] from As Good As It Gets

Woman: "How do you write women so well?"
Melvin: "I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

"I for one, am happy to see a good author finishing up this series in the original author's spirit (and with his family's blessing). So, as a fan I have to say fuck you for trolling."

Jordan said that he was going to finish the series with one final book. Sanderson is releasing 3; milking the series is in Jordan's "spirit", yup.

Re:Oooo ya

[Xaemyl]

I dunno. It's a tossup between him and Ann Rice for the shittiest successful author award.

Re:Oooo ya

[Achromatic1978]

Jordan said that he was going to finish the series with one final book.

Sure. He said that - but I also recall that he added the caveat, "even if it means it's 2,000 pages +"

Re:Oooo ya

[Achromatic1978]

. When Wheel was introduced, it was touted as book 1 of a 9 part series. The first few books were fantastic. Then Jordan decided to stretch out the series so as not to kill his money maker. Book 13 came and went with no conclusion to the story in sight, and Jordan seemed to be milking descriptions of everything in his world for all they were worth in order to extend the series.

I'm sure if you go back and look closely, you could probably determine the exact chapter he was writing when he found out that from that point on, he was going to be paid by the word.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember, Jordan's widow was not only married to him, but was also his editor, so that lends a bit more weight to her choice to have Sanderson finish the series.

Re:Oooo ya

[DarkFencer]

Jordan said that he was going to finish the series with one final book. Sanderson is releasing 3; milking the series is in Jordan's "spirit", yup.

Yes - because Jordan was probably sure that based on his condition, he wouldn't live to finish more than one book.

If you want to make the argument that he should have compressed books 7-10 into one or two books - I won't argue with that. I find it hard to believe though, that anyone who has actually read the whole series could believe the series could be concluded without it feeling incredibly rushed in just one more book (following where the plot was at after Knife of Dreams).

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

When Wheel was introduced, it was touted as book 1 of a 9 part series.

Sorry, the quote is: "It's going to be a trilogy." -Robert Jordan(circa 1989)

Re:Oooo ya

[loufoque]

Good thing not all books are made to fulfill your opinion of what is good, then.
I found the first 3 or 4 books very so-so and only the later volumes to become quite good.

Certainly, it's still not as awesome as A Song of Ice of Fire -- the best fantasy series in my opinion -- but it's still quite good.

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

The fact that there has since been *five* more books and they're still not done, with these last three still on the ledger, convinces me I was right to do that.

So a series is automatically bad if it is unfinished at the end of book eleven? I must say, that notion seems quite ridiculous to me.

(Disclaimer: I've read the Wheel of Time series four times. I've read other almost-equally-lengthy series as well. IMO, length doesn't make a series bad, poor writing makes a series bad. RJ's writing style is not for everyone, but it works for me; apparently it doesn't work for you.)

On a semi-related note, Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy I found to be very good.

Agreed. I would also recommend Warbreaker (available online as a free PDF, or you can get it in hardcover) and Elantris. If you have kids or youngish siblings, Sanderson also writes a children's series that I've heard good things about.

Re:Oooo ya

[pcolaman]

Thank you for that, agree 100%. Some people just seem intent on kicking Jordan when in fact his writing is pretty damn good. The story does drag a bit in the middle novels, but overall about 90% of the rest of fantasy writing is drivel compared to Jordan's stuff.

Re:Oooo ya

[pcolaman]

How can people who never read it know that it's garbage, either. How about you take a dose of your own medicine. If you don't like it, that's your perogotive, but don't start slamming anyone who calls out people who are basically talking shit about someone's books without actually having read them.

Re:Oooo ya

[pcolaman]

Sanderson is not the one who decided to split the book into three books; Jordan's wife is the one who made that call, and the one who is the editor and final decision maker on everything related to the final book(s). Get your facts straight.

Re:Oooo ya

[pcolaman]

She was also the editor of all of Jordan's books. Google is a fucking wonder, eh?

Re:Oooo ya

[Bashae]

Excuse me?? The parent wrote, and I quote,

you don't like his stuff don't read it.

I replied that if they don't read it, they can't know whether they like it or not.

In other words, you are agreeing with me, but implying that both I and the parent wrote the opposite of what we did, and that therefore you are agreeing with the parent.

don't start slamming anyone who calls out people who are basically talking shit about someone's books without actually having read them.

That's not what the parent did, what the parent did was try to dismiss the opinion of those who disliked the book after having read it. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked them not to read it.

When you are replying to something, please read carefully before posting.

Re:Oooo ya

[something_wicked_thi]

This is just wrong.

They've said that the series was originally intended to be a trilogy. There have been only 11 books so far. This book will be the twelfth.

I don't know Jordan's reasons for extending the series. You are probably right that they were not honorable and everything after the 5th book was garbage, with the exception of Winter's Heart and Knife of Dreams, which were still only shadows of the first few books.

Overall, I wish I hadn't started the series, but now that I have, I'm kind of looking forward to it again for the first time in years.

Re:Oooo ya

[LurkerXXX]

At one time Jordan said it would be a trilogy. Then 6 books. When wheel was actually introduced in the stores, as I said, it was touted as 1 of 9. I still have the free book (just part of the first whole book) given out at the time. 1 of 9.

Yes, I typo'd on the came and went number. 11 came and went. 13 is the one that's being written at the moment, but won't finish it. Hopefully 14 will.

Re:Oooo ya

[sukotto]

I gave up -- terribly disappointed -- after the 4th or 5th book. Although I found his characters pretty misandric at times, I generally I thought Jordan did a great job of bringing characters to life in a world that held a lot of interest for me. The part that made me give up on him was the senseless addition of every cool character and plot twist he could come up with. (Did he ever tie up ANY of the loose ends he spun off with such abandon?) I came away thinking that he only cared about stringing his readers on for as long as possible. Building up an enormous Rube Goldberg machine, one book at a time.

When I heard he was terminally ill, I read his essay on the topic and his resolve to not even try to tie up loose ends because it gave him some kind of incentive to "get better". At that point I was pretty glad I'd already given up on him. To get halfway (? 40%? 20%) through building this huge structure and them basically saying "sorry guys. I probably won't live to finish and if I don't? No soup for YOU!)

Several people have mentioned a hope that this new author will wrap up the series. Why do you think that he will? What incentive does the Jordan estate to *stop* publishing this wildly popular money making series? I submit to you that they have every incentive to do what Jordan did... Keep adding more characters to the mix and continue milking this series it for all it's worth.

When did I become such a cynical old man?

Re:Oooo ya

[loufoque]

The first few books were fantastic.

You realize the first few books were standard cliche childish random-guy-gets-taught-he's-special-and-how-to-use-his-powers-to-save-the-world-against-the-reviving-evil-lord?
If you think *that* is fantastic, you must have a very shallow knowledge of fantasy.

What made the series good is the different simultaneous point of views and the interacting actions of each character and entity in the world (which simply weren't there in the first books, where Rand was the main protagonist). Those makes the world and story much more dynamic, alive, and attracting to the reader who can then feel entwined in the plot between the various parties.
Also, when Rand gets serious instead of being an emo teen, it becomes quite more interesting since there are bits of strategy involved and his actions have a lot of influence on all other point of views of the series. The fact that the chapters he's the main character of are very scarce and sort of cliffhangers or arc finishers puts a fairly nice touch to the books too.

Sure, the series is still fairly manichean, but the distinction gets a bit fuzzier, in particular as mis- and dis-information is spread thanks to those crazy women and their secrecy.

Book 13 came and went with no conclusion to the story in sight, and Jordan seemed to be milking descriptions of everything in his world for all they were worth in order to extend the series.

Since when is expanding a world to make it have more content and be more vivid a bad thing?
The goal is not to close up the series as quickly as possible, but to make it an interesting read.

People certainly don't think Tolkien's work -- which truthfully is way overrated -- sucked because he spent a lot of time furthering the world instead of making stories.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

You really don't know what you're talking about. This next book is the last one of this series. It is based upon his notes on what is to happen and supposedly will be written in his style. Like many of the others here I quit after about book 4, I have listened to a couple of the intervening books on long road trips. He wanted the series to finish and picked the guy he wanted to finish it up. Go do some research before you have diarrhea of the mouth again.

Re:Oooo ya

[loufoque]

While I do feel bad for his family, I certainly wasn't pleased as a reader. I had spent countless hours reading the series, and years (17, to be exact) awaiting the conclusion of his books.

So you read books to reach the conclusion?
Reading must be quite disappointing for you then, since conclusions are hardly ever exciting.

The conclusion of The Wheel of Time appears quite deductible anyway, from all the elements and prophecies that were given throughout the books.

Re:Oooo ya

[pjr.cc]

i got to book 9... god how i wish i could get those parts of my life back... by book 9 you'd read several hundred pages and think "what actually happened then?" and realise the whole series was becoming like days of our lives where only watching ever forth show was necessary (so im told, i do not watch days of our lives for the record).

Seriously talk about a waste of money, i cant believe i actually kept reading until book 9 - i am SUCK A DUMB A** (feel free to quote me on that in the future when i post annoying things).

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

The basic fantasy world was so derivative of Tolkien that I just wanted to barf

Having read both the Wheel of Time and the Lord of the Rings several times (as well as various LotR-related books like the Silmarillion), I'm not sure what you're getting at. I can think of only a few small similarities:

- Lan Mandragoran has a backstory similar (but not identical) to that of Aragorn, but the characters themselves are quite dissimilar.
- The Myrdraal bear a passing similarity to the Nazgul, but only because they wear black and cause fear; the Myrdraal are otherwise entirely different.
- The Trollocs bear a passing similarity to the Orcs, but only because they're the "bad guy" infantry; what we know of Trolloc and Orcish social structures are entirely different.

These are minor similarities at best; arguably, none of them are key to the plot. None of them are vomit-worthy, either. So, I ask you: in what ways do you think the Wheel of Time world is derivative of Tolkien?

Re:Oooo ya

[Kjella]

Robert Jordan pretty much up and died in the middle of finishing his last book In Memory of Light.

Robert Jordan has been in "one book more" mode for half a dozen books right up until the part where he got sick and thought he might begin in the direction of moving the series towards a close. Even then, I think he was much too caught up in his own plot and writing style to have actually finished in one book or even three. Just judging by how few of the subplots that are closed that could have been closed, I don't think he was very good at keeping track himself. It wasn't a recurring case of going off on subplots, it's subplots spreading out like a fan as the series progresses, two new appearing whenever one is closed. If he did a real job, it'd probably be like Brandon Sanderson discovering there was a million plots to close or it'd be a rushed "let me throw this out there before I die" sort of thing.

While I reserve judgment until I actually see the result, having someone else finish up the work might be the best thing that's happened to the WoT since the last half a dozen books. Someone that's actually good at bookkeeping and closing plots that really has the ability to bring the series to a consistent close. I'm guessing the final ending of book three (14!) is already well outlined as it's been hanging out there for years, but getting to that point is closing the unclosable. Not too unlike the filming of Lord of the Rings, that was also supposedly impossible to make as film. While in this case they're both authors, I'm hoping Sanderson can be to Jordan something like what Jackson was to Tolkien.

Re:Oooo ya

[fractoid]

I think the only reason the later volumes even sold was because people didn't want to admit to themselves that they'd been persuaded to waste the time and money on the earlier ones.

Nearly. The only reason I bought the later ones was because the first four or so were so good (imho, ymmv, etc) that it *had* to pick up the pace again at some point. Sadly it wallowed out not into a river delta but into a turgid mud flat.

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

Having met Brandon Sanderson in person, and discussed the 3-books vs 1-book issue, I can tell you that it wasn't his idea. Tor decided they wanted something to publish this November. In order to meet that requirement while still delivering a coherent story, he had to tear what he had written apart (move some things ahead to the next book), and fill in the gaps with other stuff. Discussing the result with Tor and RJ's wife, Harriet (who is basically in charge of the Wheel of Time), it was decided to publish the last book in three volumes over three years. The "Wheel of Time: A Memory of Light: Volume I" name got dropped later because it was too long, so the first volume was renamed.

Sure, Brandon's getting paid for his work, and he'll certainly get paid more for writing three books than he would for just one. But it wasn't his intention, so I can't in good conscience say he's milking the series. What I can say is that he's doing his best to follow in Jordan's footsteps as he writes the final sections of the Wheel of Time. We can judge based on the result. If after the third volume we can see that the three volumes were filled with needless fluff, then sure, we can say Brandon was making the books longer than necessary to get more money. But based on what I know of Brandon, and based on what we know about Robert Jordan himself, I do not think that will be the case two or three years from now.

In any case, Jordan claimed he'd do it in one book "even if they have to invent a new binding method." Had Jordan lived long enough to finish the Wheel of Time himself, I'd be willing to bet that the final volume would still have been multiple books, and you'd be complaining that Jordan himself is milking the series. (That is, I'm guessing you'd assign malicious, money-grubbing motives to either author, if the final volume turned out to be more than one book.)

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

When Wheel was introduced, it was touted as book 1 of a 9 part series.

Actually when the first Wheel of Time book was published, it was supposed to be the first in a trilogy ;)

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

Uh... I've never heard of a book author who gets paid by the word. (Or do you have reason to believe Jordan was getting paid by the word?) Authors get paid based on how well their book sells. Sure, established authors might get advances, or larger advances, but either way it's based on the volume of book sales, not based on how much ink was used to print the book.

Re:Oooo ya

[LurkerXXX]

If you think *that* is fantastic, you must have a very shallow knowledge of fantasy.

Gosh, gee-wilikers, I wish I had such an in-depth knowledge of fantasy as you. Piss off. If you have a different taste in books that's fine. If I happen to like something you don't, that's fine too.

since when is expanding a world to make it have more content and be more vivid a bad thing?
The goal is not to close up the series as quickly as possible, but to make it an interesting read.

When did I EVER say expanding a world to make it more vivid was a bad thing? I didn't. It simply shouldn't be done at expense of the telling of a story you started.

Tolkien didn't go off track in the LOTR and insert 7 books between The Two Towers and The Return of The King because he wanted to describe intricacies of how Galadriel liked to play with here hair or the affair her blacksmith was having with some maiden. Or give the entire histories of the Silmarillion in there. He tried to keep to the story and complete it. He gave enough details to flesh out the world, but didn't let himself get distracted entirely by them. Further materials to further detail his universe could be published separately, or as part of another set of stories as appropriate.

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

I'd suggest you grab Warbreaker online for free, it's Brandon Sanderson's most recently published book; it was also available as a PDF through Brandon's website during the whole course of its writing.

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/drafts/warbreaker/Warbreaker_hardcover_1st_ed.pdf

Re:Oooo ya

[pcolaman]

Your mom

Re:Oooo ya

[shaitand]

okay, here, let me help him by correcting the statement for anal smartasses like yourself.

"you don't like his stuff don't read more of it."

This is a story of interest to FANS waiting for the book to come out. This is not an appropriate forum for trolls who want to post flamebait here that amounts to nothing more than "Jordan sux0rs". Its inappropriate and adds nothing to the discussion.

Re:Oooo ya

[metlin]

So you read books to reach the conclusion?
Reading must be quite disappointing for you then, since conclusions are hardly ever exciting.

My, the snark.

Conclusions are certainly part of it, yes. One can only read a cliffhanger for so long. 17 years is pushing it.

Re:Oooo ya

[shaitand]

AFAIK the number of volumes planned for the series was decided at least six novels ago. You can debate whether or not it would have finished with this book on schedule or not but this was planned to be the last book and the previous book was never intended to be the last.

Re:Oooo ya

[ceoyoyo]

Isn't that how Scientology works? Give us some money and we'll show you level one. Give us some more money and you get level two. Then three. Really, you'll learn the life changing secrets soon!

Re:Oooo ya

[GameMaster]

Wow, what a surprise, someone with the Slashdot name "HeronBlademaster" is a Robert Jordan fan-boy. Sure, having 11 books in a series doesn't guarantee that it's crap, but it certainly increases the chances. What seals the deal is the fact that even Jordan originally claimed it was going to be much shorter. Either he was being pushed by his editors to drag it on for profits or he just let the story get away from him and didn't know how to, competently, wrap it up. Either way, it's crap writing. I'm one of those that enjoyed the series until book 5 or 6. At that point, the quality of writing went down the toilette. It has nothing to do with Jordan's writing style being "for everyone", it has to do with his writing style going from good to drivel as the series went on, and on, and on, and on. He was an excellent writer over a single book, or a short series but he just wasn't competent enough to keep his story focused over the kind of epic series he wanted to create.

Re:Oooo ya

[tylernt]

some hack who can't do original work.

Eh? I'm halfway through Brandon Sanderson's second Mistborn book. Sanderson's writing seems pretty good to me, and the first Mistborn was very original.

I have high hopes for Sanderson's treatment of WOT.

Re:Oooo ya

[shaitand]

sorry but I'm with the GP. I like things to have a beginning, a journey or experience, and an ending. I hate MMORPG games because they never end. When I find a book I can get into then I am locked into the book until it is finished. Generally I get up to piss, sleep, eat, shit, and work and inbetween there is the book until it is consumed. I am the same with movies, tv shows.

I hate walking away in the middle when my mind is already invested in handling all the details of the subject matter. Removing my attention from the subject matter scatters that focus and causes me to drop all the delicate threads of details and plots.

The kind of focus I give to a work such as a book simply can not be maintained forever. There are so many delicate threads of detail and interconnected plot in the WoT series that I can't kept them all filed between books. I will be glad when I can finally read the series from start to finish, book one to the finale.

Re:Oooo ya

[shaitand]

That is a bit unfair though. Six books (10+ years) have passed since Jordan said it would be 12 or 13 books.

Re:Oooo ya

[Bashae]

While the OP's post may admittedly be flamebait and inappropriate, that is no reason to dismiss the opinions of the many OTHER people who are disappointed with the series and who chose to express that throughout this article's comments. The story is of interest to a lot of people; I don't remember slashdot stories being restricted to certain interest groups, and even if they were, it wouldn't be for you to decide who gets or doesn't get to post.

And an added comment about flamebaits:

fuck you for trolling.

Your mom

anal smartasses like yourself.

It's a very relative concept. I am discussing this matter in a perfectly civil and neutral manner, while you fanboys are being aggressive and insulting people just for disagreeing with you. I wonder why I can't take you seriously.

Re:Oooo ya

[LurkerXXX]

I don't know if it's unfair. When I was talked into buying the first book when it came out, the chain (It's been so long I can't remember if it was Barnes & Noble/B.Daltons, Waldenbooks, etc. One of the big chains anyhow) had both in their monthly newsletter and fliers in the store about how this was book 1 of what would be a 9 part series. Since I started buying the books under that premise, I think I can hold them to being at least within a couple books of that, or having the right to moan about it when it doesn't get finished.

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

Fanboy? No, I'll freely admit that the Wheel of Time is longer than it strictly needs to be. I'll even concede that the story got out of control (in terms of length), and Jordan wasn't quite capable of containing it. And unlike Apple fanboys, I don't expect everyone to like it. I'm hardly a fanboy.

Sure, I've read the series multiple times. Sure, my online ID is derived from the Wheel of Time. Does it matter that I came up with the name in the context of a Star Wars game (Jedi Knight II)? Does it matter that I own the Lord of the Rings CCG, but not the Wheel of Time CCG? (Point being: Fan, but not a fanboy.)

Don't make the mistake of thinking "he's saying something good about it, so he must be a fanboy".

Re:Oooo ya

[shaitand]

Absolutely. Those who dislike his work dismiss the intricacy and consistency of the WoT plot as simple outlining obviously don't even begin to have a concept of what is involved.

It is a challenge to follow everything and catch all the connections as reader... I can't even begin to fathom actually keeping a WoT encyclopedia in my head in order to write this story in an error free way. I couldn't even begin to outline something so vast and intricate.

To me its like dismissing the great masterpieces handcrafted in marble that you can almost watch breath in the right light by pointing to a chisel and stoneworking for dummies.

I suspect a great deal of the hatred for Jordan comes from Tolkien fans who hate him on principle because he was compared favorably with Tolkien so often. Then there are those who lacked the wits to follow the story.

Re:Oooo ya

[LurkerXXX]

That's not what the monthly newsletter from the national bookstore chain I bought it from said. Nor was that on the display where I got a free copy if the first part of the first book. By then it had long changed from being a trilogy.

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

Yes... but you didn't buy it when it was first published ;)

And I didn't mean to imply that it was being advertised as a trilogy, simply that that was Jordan's contract with Tor at the time.

Re:Oooo ya

[LurkerXXX]

Oh yes, I did. It was a loooong time ago.

By the time it was published and actually in the stores, Jordan and Tor both knew it would be way longer than a trilogy. Heck, by the time the first draft of the first book was done, everyone knew it wouldn't be wrapped up by book 3 by a long shot. And that was a long time before the book launch.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you bother to read The Return of the King? Why? It must have hardly been exciting, and the conclusion was quite deductible.

(And btw, yes, you do seem to be a snarky ass)

Re:Oooo ya

[LihTox]

Given the number of things that have to happen in the series as it stands today, there is no way that the series could have been wrapped up in one normal-sized book, at least not without a lot of handwaving and unanswered questions. Jordan just said "One more book" because he knew that people were bemused by the continually moving goalposts.

With all due respect to Robert Jordan, one nice thing about having a lifelong fan like Sanderson finish the series is that he knows exactly which threads the fans want to see resolved, and he's in no position to deny us. RJ might have gotten away with never revealing e.g. Asmodean's killer, but Sanderson doesn't have the luxury to be coy.

Re:Oooo ya

[justin12345]

I'd definitely agree with you, though I can see how someone might get that impression if they only read the first book. In EotW I don't really think Jordan had "found the voice of the series" yet, and a lot of the what goes on in the first book reflects that. By Book 2 he has, and the similarities stop there.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anarchduke]

L Ron Hubbard was the most successful shitty author ever. If you have ever voluntarily decided to torture yourself and you get tired of ripping fishhooks through your testicles, you can read his series.

I quite enjoyed James Rigney's writing style, and I thought his approach to Conan was well done. I have a lot of respect for him. He is a genuine hero and deserves props for his service, with a distinguished service cross and a bronze star acquired during two tours in Vietnam.

He also deserves props for having graduated with a bachelors in Physics, a degree plan which is definitely not for the faint of heart.

As to his Wheel of Time series, I found it to be highly entertaining and involving. His characters have a depth to them, and he allows those characters to act according to their strengths and weaknesses, even if it having them act in a different manner would make it easier to advance the plot. If a character is scared to death of heights, he isn't going to cross over a tightrope, even if that were the smart thing for the character to do. The character freezes, and gets caught.

The world he created was immense, and one could write hundreds of books inside that world. The mechanics of the world are reasonably consistent, providing an even backdrop to the heroes and the villians.

His book was also only one of two books that have ever made me physically react while reading. Stephen King's IT actually made me jump in a chair while reading it, and Robert Jordan made me so mad at one of the characters I jumped up, screamed curses, and threw the book across the room.

While his writing style is not for everyone, those of us who find it enjoyable are overjoyed that Brandon Sanderson will, with the help of Jordan's widow and his notes, finish the series. James Rigney worked as hard as he could the last month or two of his life to get as much information down for the next author to continue his work and finish the series. I for one, can't wait for it.

Re:Oooo ya

[Mia'cova]

Couldn't you have just accepted it as a warning that it was never going to be a quick read? If some of those middle books had been as good as the early or most recent, I don't think there would be so many complaints...

Re:Oooo ya

[Mia'cova]

One thing I really love about WoT is the diversity of characters. I used to hate most of the women when I was younger. But when you talk about the series with a wider variety of people, it seems like a lot of women identify with the women in the story, and not always the same ones. Similarily, I like Rand but I have many friends who read for Perrin and as many who for Mat. I'm really trying to say two things. 1) Pay attention to some of those characters you don't like because they represent a lot of readers who closely identify with them. 2) Yea, this actually is a LOT like jar-jar, except instead of being introduced late with the intention of drawing in kids, jordan wanted to very broadly represent many different people and personality types that actually do exist in our society, right from the start.

Re:Oooo ya

[plastbox]

As someone who isn't big on reading but has finished the entire WoT series twice now, I can't see this as first and foremost being about making money. Of course the publisher wants as much money as they can get but from interviews I have read they seem to also have a healthy respect for Robert Jordan's work. I feel like I "know" the characters of WoT in a way, and I desperately want to know how their stories end! I have faith in Harriet (Jordan's widow) finding a good author to complete R.J's legacy and with the amount of notes and work Jordan left behind, the "finish line" of which you speak will be the one Jordan intended (if the brand of shoes used to get there might be different).

Re:Oooo ya

[plastbox]

I may or may not have a point with this, but I think you are far too narrow sighted and *err* slashdot "mainstream" to enjoy WoT. How does having multiple plot lines, each deep enough to stand on it's own (disregarding whether or not you like the characters), weaving back and forth, crossing paths, pushing and pulling and sometimes crashing into each other make for bad writing?

Yes, you're allowed to say you don't like the books just like you can say you don't like Mercedes. You can, however, not claim that Lada is better than Mercedes, because it is simply untrue.

Robert Jordan was a writer of such rare talent as to write a gigantic, multi layered epic with natural, realistic characters, each with their own agendas and motives, and a huge world of different cultures and history. If you don't have the attention span to read the books and see this, that is your problem, not a flaw of the author.

Re:Oooo ya

[Aladrin]

Yeah, the way I heard it, he swore the 11th book would be the last even if it was 2000 pages... And then went right on to the 12th. And now the 12th is 3 books worth and we'll definitely going out to the 14th.

He apparently lost his way when the book started writing itself... If he'd just kept control of the book, instead of throwing everything in that came to mind, the books would have been a lot better. I've sometimes wondered if someone couldn't take books 5-9 and condense them to make a better series.

Re:Oooo ya

[plastbox]

You should read up on what Harriet, Sanderson and Tor publishing has to say about the subject. Mr. Sanderson has already completed a good bulk of the three last books, with the last one containing Tarmon Gai'don.

Now, you might argue that Tor might want Sanderson to write the Infinity of Heaven series, as well as other side stories and prequels. However, Sanderson has already publicly posted a refusal to do this as he thinks it would just be milking Jordan's amazing work (of which Sanderson has been a fan for many years).

I think we're safe. I might check out Mistborn though. Can anyone tell me if that series is any good for someone who loves the works of Tolkien as well as WoT?

Re:Oooo ya

[Kjella]

You can debate whether or not it would have finished with this book on schedule or not but this was planned to be the last book

Brandon Sanderson says it'll take three books to sum it up and each of those will be a 300000 word log like the previous WoT books. That means Robert Jordan would probably take at least twice as long, given his usual style. Either Jordan was planning to leave 90% of the subplots hanging, or he was trying to enter the Guinness Book of Records for thickest pocket book. More likely he realized how absurd the claim was that he'd finish it all in a book but couldn't tell his fans he'd need half a dozen which he wouldn't be around to write.

Re:Oooo ya

[shaitand]

"that is no reason to dismiss the opinions of the many OTHER people who are disappointed with the series and who chose to express that throughout this article's comments"

Yes it is. Its reason to dismiss them along with anything else that is off-topic. They are doing nothing more than trolling and trying to draw flames from the fans who will be attracted to this news.

"I don't remember slashdot stories being restricted to certain interest groups"

No but they are restricted to certain topics which is why moderators such as myself have an offtopic moderation. This story is about a chapter being released in a new book. If you really must hate read the chapter and then hate on the content.

"I am discussing this matter in a perfectly civil and neutral manner, while you fanboys"

A bit of a contradiction in terms don't you think?

That's like saying "I am discussing this matter in a perfectly civil and neutral manner, while you liberals"

Or

"I am discussing this matter in a perfectly civil and neutral manner, while you right-wing nutjobs"

As for being called an anal smartass. If you make a smart remark you are a smartass. Check. If you use a literal remark as the punchline then you are being anal. Check. And when the individuals point was clear in context and the literal remark was an obvious case of choosing poor wording. Well that is textbook anal smartassiness.

That is not some random insult. Nobody is calling you a jerk or a fuckwad or other meaningless slam. It is a very specific factual observation of your remark.

Re:Oooo ya

[Bashae]

"I am discussing this matter in a perfectly civil and neutral manner, while you fanboys"

A bit of a contradiction in terms don't you think?

That is not some random insult. Nobody is calling you a jerk or a fuckwad or other meaningless slam. It is a very specific factual observation of your remark. ...I wonder where I read this before.

No but they are restricted to certain topics which is why moderators such as myself have an offtopic moderation. This story is about a chapter being released in a new book. If you really must hate read the chapter and then hate on the content.

Who ever said I hate Wheel of Time? Besides, people are criticizing aspects of the series that they've read and expressing disappointment which may influence whether they are willing to read or not read the new chapter. Obviously they can't comment the story within the new installment, since it hasn't been released yet.

Comments about Wheel of Time are definitely not off-topic in a Wheel of Time related article. And you aren't any more of a moderator than I am, since you have chosen (as I did) to post in this article rather than modding it.

If my ideas about what constitutes off-topic are wrong, someone should tell that to everyone who meta-moderates my moderations. I receive a constant stream of mod points.

Re:Oooo ya

[khchung]

Could you explain to me why you seemed so concerned about having to finish the series?

For the record, I enjoyed every book of the series, some more, some less, but all enjoyable on the whole. So I don't mind Jordan writing out book after book, except for the fact that he didn't live long enough to write more.

Why would it upset you if the series go to book 20 if every one of them is good? Is it because you no longer like the book and just have to "finish" it? If so, why not just consider the last book you read as "finished" and move on? I did that with the Sword of Truth series, I just stopped after book 6 or 7 and never bothered the rest.

Looking at the comments in the last book of the Sword of Truth series, you can see lots of comments saying they just "have to finish it" even though they don't like the series anymore. I just wonder if so many negative comments about Jordan not finishing the book comes from people who just cannot stop even though they no longer like the series.

Re:Oooo ya

[loufoque]

Gosh, gee-wilikers, I wish I had such an in-depth knowledge of fantasy as you. Piss off. If you have a different taste in books that's fine. If I happen to like something you don't, that's fine too.

It's not a matter of taste.
If you find something that is cliché to be fantastic, then that necessarily mean you have a very shallow knowledge of the domain that even prevents you from seeing it is cliché.

Re:Oooo ya

[The_Wilschon]

I both like and dislike Jordan. I think he found himself unable to control his story and characters, and that the series suffered for it. However, I have every intention of buying and reading the remaining books, and expect to enjoy them.

OTOH, there are most likely some people who have never heard of the Wheel of Time series. Reviews of the series (which is what many posts here amount to) are useful to them in determining whether or not they might enjoy it and thus should begin reading it. OTGH, these "reviews" (on both sides of the issue, mind you) are generally not very well done, written, or thought out. In short, I think that posts that amount to "I think Jordan is not a very good writer for these reasons" certainly add something to the discussion, although perhaps not as much as they could.

Re:Oooo ya

[sunking2]

I dunno. I checked out Elantris when I heard he was going to finish up the series and for some reason just couldn't get into it. One of the few books I've bought that I have left half read. Honestly, it reminded me of the last 6 books in WoT as far as pace was concerned. So in that sense maybe he was a good choice. I'm sure I'll pick this book up, but not until paperback which probably won't be for a while. I'm sure they'll make some good scratch for a while on the hardcopy.

Re:Oooo ya

[atamido]

(Disclaimer: I've read the Wheel of Time series four times.

That just sounds painful. I'm with the others though, the books are far too long. He has whole books devoted to fleshing out sub-plots that don't matter and aren't going anywhere. Sure it might be a bit interesting, but I'd rather go back and deal with that huge dangling piece of the primary plot that you left 3000 pages ago in book four.

It was like he began a basic plot framework, and then decided to devote a book to each little subplot and minor character that came along. What he should have done was finish the plot, and then add in books later that fulfilled his need to recount each and every little detail.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahem. I have a first edition printing of the first book in the Wheel of time (which sitting here now, for the life of me, i can't remember the title), and it clearly sais "trilogy" across the top. I also have a first edition printing of the first book in George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire "Trilogy" as well.

There are also numerous posts from Jordan along the way, like after book 4 stating he was "closer to the end than the beginning"

Problem is, he both fell in love with the world and characters, and he lost the ability to control subplot lines and bring them back to a center.

Jordan died before reaching the end. Hoprefilly, Martin does not as well (he's not in great shape, and hes got a good 2 beeks if not 3 left in the series, with bigger and bigger gaps between each one as he galavants all over the world working on other efforts and his TV series for HBO...

Re:Oooo ya

[atamido]

It just occurred to me that it would have been like if Orson Card had never finished the book Ender's Game. If instead he had started it, but then started pumping out books to deal with the various sub plots and people on the station and what happened to them. Later on he did actually write separate series for the characters, which is what (I think) Jordan should have done. Instead we have 10,000 unfinished subplots.

Re:Oooo ya

[atamido]

Agreed. My interest in WoT was largely due to its new ideas. Saying it is basically a derivative of Tolkien is just odd.

Re:Oooo ya

[atamido]

Any idea of the length of the three books? Are these going to be three 1000 page books, or 300 page books?

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mom rates a 2.

Re:Oooo ya

[godefroi]

If after the third volume we can see that the three volumes were filled with needless fluff, then sure, we can say Brandon was making the books longer than necessary to get more money.

If after the third volume, we can see that the three were filled with needless fluff, then all we can say is that they're just like the previous six or seven books.

Re:Oooo ya

[dhasenan]

Sanderson's writing style is not terribly similar to that of Robert Jordan. It's a more popular style, less prone to spending three pages describing the layout of a room. If he's a good enough author, he can work around that issue, though.

Re:Oooo ya

[wisty]

Rock falls. Everybody dies. Easy.

Re:Oooo ya

[Rosy At Random]

If he's a good enough author, he won't work around that issue.

If Jordan had lived, he'd have spent the entirity of the whole book describing the sound of some woman's snort as she decided on what to wear that morning before she sat down and thought about what she might do 6 books down the line.

Re:Oooo ya

[anyGould]

Why would it upset you if the series go to book 20 if every one of them is good? Is it because you no longer like the book and just have to "finish" it? If so, why not just consider the last book you read as "finished" and move on? I did that with the Sword of Truth series, I just stopped after book 6 or 7 and never bothered the rest.

Can't speak for the rest of the universe, but for me the big issue is that Jordan lost track of what the series was about - there's so many sub-plots, and new characters, and little side quests, that you can go through an entire book and the main plot didn't advance at all.

I'd be happier if some of the little side plots were moved to their own books, so that the main plot could, ya know, advance

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

Brandon guessed at around 800k words for the three books together. If memory serves, The Gathering Storm ended up around 250k words, which I think is about normal for a Wheel of Time book, putting the final three books between 800 and 1000 pages each.

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

That just sounds painful. I'm with the others though, the books are far too long.

Oh, I agree that they're longer than necessary for the plot, but I still enjoy them.

As for whether it's painful... I seem to have an unnaturally quick reading speed, so it goes rather quickly for me. Maybe that's why I enjoy WoT...

Re:Oooo ya

[lymond01]

I just look on the bright side - at least the new author will actually finish the series

The end of the Wheel of Time series is like anti-vaporware.

Re:Oooo ya

[rogueninja]

He has whole books devoted to fleshing out sub-plots that don't matter and aren't going anywhere.

I was always of the opinion that the myriad of mini-plots were kind of a blended statement about chaos theory and fate. All the petty little schemes and self-promoting plots of varying people who are too proud to bend to the will of the Dragon Reborn, or who never really seem to have anything to do with Rand at all, actually merge together at the end into one grand EVENT that couldn't possibly have happened without their tiny contribution. Or at least, that's what I tell myself to get through the slower volumes :)

Re:Oooo ya

[ZombieWomble]

With regards to the "1 of 9" thing - you said in a reply below that you got the first part of the first book free. Would this by any chance have been "From the two rivers"? If so, that was part of a re-release of the books, where the first was split up into two to try and entice new readers.

I ask, because at the time there were indeed 9 books in the series, which would explain the discrepancy between your recollection and those of other submitters.

Re:Oooo ya

[VanGarrett]

The only female character I had a problem with was Elayne; at some point, my feelings about her side of the story came down to, "Someone either give her the damned throne, or kill her. I don't care anymore, I just want this part to stop."

Other than that, I'd say the books were mostly good.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey that's kinda why I watched BSG up until the last frakkin' episode.

Re:Oooo ya

[atamido]

D'oh! Well, at least there might be enough space to tie up all the subplots that were started.

Re:Oooo ya

[logan@bitsmart.com]

Robert Jordan made me so mad at one of the characters I jumped up, screamed curses, and threw the book across the room.

I've gotta know... what character, what scene, which book?

Re:Oooo ya

[DaedylusSL]

Anyone that's a fan of fantasy books at all should read Mistborn (and Sanderson's other books). It's not quite like any other fantasy I've ever read. There's a good amount of action. A good amount of character development. Some people are there for the action, some are there for the motivations. Sanderson is amazingly good at writing both. I gave a copy of the series to my dad who read them and then told me: "The last 10 pages make the whole series worth reading." Man, those books were fun.

Re:Oooo ya

[shaitand]

"It is a very specific factual observation of your remark"

Which remark is that? Define fanboy and establish a specific textbook example of fanboyism in my comments. I gave specific examples that established my comment as fact. I provided premise and structure that result in a valid argument. That is the difference between criticism and bashing. For that matter any student of logic can tell you that any argument that is made without valid premise and structure is invalid even if the conclusion correct.

"Who ever said I hate Wheel of Time?"

A bit self centric don't you think? This thread was discussing the people hating on the series. The only one who included you among that group is yourself. We aren't talking about something you are doing or not doing here.

"Besides, people are criticizing aspects of the series"

Nobody is talking about constructive criticism. The first several highly modded comments in this discussion are nothing but trollish remarks designed to incite a flamewar... which they did successfully.

So far I haven't seen any cases of criticism with a valid argument attached.

"If my ideas about what constitutes off-topic are wrong, someone should tell that to everyone who meta-moderates my moderations. "

Okay then. Give your criteria for defining flamebait, troll, and redundant. I challenge you to find any definition for these moderations that wouldn't include all the "Jordan sucks" posts under this story or at least all but one of them.

Re:Oooo ya

[shaitand]

"Either Jordan was planning to leave 90% of the subplots hanging..."

Jordan and Sanderson both indicated that he intended to leave quite a bit hanging. At some point in his journal Sanderson began to question whether this would be best for the readers and if he should change it.

That upset me a great deal when I read it but now I am not sure. Jordan intended to be around and possibly follow up with a second series or other books that might have followed up on some of those sub-plots. Sanderson has said he has no intention of writing someone elses series for the rest of his life. Maybe it is better to tie up the loose ends if there is no more text coming down the road later.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

What's a cliche is relative. I looked at WOT as another LOTR/Harry Potter/Boy Coming of Age fantasy. Therefore I grew bored by the 2nd volume and donated the 1st 2 volumes of the series that I owned to a local coffee shoph. On the other hand, this genre might pass as something exciting and brilliant to someone who hasn't read much in the genre.

Re:Oooo ya

[monksp]

I'm thinking this happened a couple of times now. I remember a 1/2 of book 1 freebie being offered when book five was released in hardback, as well. And I think I remember something about the series needing nine books at that point.

Re:Oooo ya

[dilvish_the_damned]

It was the only way women in the universe knew how to communicate, you know... snorting and sniffing a lot. Many pages of it. Over and over again. Probably going to need some fancy pants editor to keep the flow going, or a Perl script.

 

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm actually a fan of the serious, but I have to agree.

1) The books were getting ridiculously long while not seeming to progress at all. One 1,000 page book seems like it took place over the course of a week

2) I finished the last book feeling annoyed the same way I finished the last 5 or 6, there's no way he's finishing this in 1 book. When a friend gave me this series years ago, he promised me there was just 1 or 2 more books in the series, that was 6 books ago.

3) While I can see some folks thinking "money grubbing", I do believe Robert Jordon had an arc in mind, that there would be a completion. He carefully crafted a circular world, so that everything would need to be put "back" by the time the world turned round again. We see the beginings of scientific progress in the books (gunpowder and cannons will be there for teh final battle), we know the "previous" age had high technology before it was effectively "broken" by wars of Power. He HAD to have an end in mind, just like JK Rowling had the overall arc of HP in mind from book 1. Dammit, I want to know how he ended it.

Re:Oooo ya

[LurkerXXX]

This was 1990, so book 9 definitely wasn't out.

Re:Oooo ya

[Rosy At Random]

No, no, men sniff and women snort. This is a basic secondary sexual characteristic in the WoT.

Re:Oooo ya

[Bashae]

Nobody is talking about constructive criticism.

I am. Why did you assume otherwise?

So far I haven't seen any cases of criticism with a valid argument attached.

Then you can hardly have read the other comments to the article.

The only one who included you among that group is yourself.

No, you did:

If you really must hate read the chapter and then hate on the content.

You know, I'm beginning to feel sorry for you. I'd heard of people like you, but I think it's my first time communicating with a live specimen. The kind of nerd with a little job and a little life who comes online to jump into a thread where other people were debating and bicker endlessly about details so he can feel good and superior at something.

And you know what? I have better things to do with my life. So I concede. Congratulations. You win this internet argument. Whatever you're writing is right and true. Feel free to reply to this post any amount of times with more contradictory arguments, or to twist my words even more, or to insult me. I promise I won't steal your thunder by replying anymore. Have a good evening.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

I always thought Jordan used LotR to get an idea to start his novel.

The main thing for me was that the main character along with a few of his friends leave their small peaceful backwoods city at the same time that it is visited by the evil people searching for the main character. They leave this town with the help of a magic user and the last survivor of the royal line of the country next to the evil people.

After using that as an idea to start he made the series very much his own...

Re:Oooo ya

[Anarchduke]

When Rand alThor gets bonded against his will by the green Aes Sedai

Re:Oooo ya

[HeronBlademaster]

I see your point, but the nitpicker in me is making me continue:

I don't know that I'd call Gandalf a magic user in the same sense that Moiraine is a magic user. The only time the Hobbits ever really see him do anything extraordinary is when he uses his staff as a flashlight in the Mines of Moria. (Ok, facing down the Balrog was "extraordinary" but there was no visible magic, if I remember right.) By contrast, Moiraine repeatedly uses saidar in highly visible ways, even before they leave the Two Rivers.

Furthermore, several years pass between when Gandalf said "you'll have to leave the Shire" and when they actually left (though the movies just ignore it), and when they did finally leave, Gandalf wasn't even with them. Rand and his friends left the Two Rivers almost immediately in the company of both the Aes Sedai and her Warder (Aragorn's counterpart).

My point is, there are only so many ways to start a story; nobody should hold a grudge against Jordan for the vague similarities to LotR that one could find in the beginning of the Wheel of Time, especially because (as you point out) he did make the series very much his own.

Re:Oooo ya

[Radical Moderate]

Ditto. Jordan should have just wrapped it up after the first few books. But kudos to him for starting a series that has lived longer than he did. Beats selling cars for a living.

Re:Oooo ya

[shaitand]

We have strayed from the point and I take the blame. I apologize for calling you an 'anal smartass' if you find the term offensive. I refer to myself as an anal smartass on a regular basis and am probably desensitized to it. I meant only that you were making a witty remark by playing on an overly literal and nitpicky interpretation of the AC's comment. Witty (smartass), literal/nitpicky (anal).

The AC referred to people 'bagging jordan'. You suggested he was trying to dismiss them. I disagreed. I was referring to the unsupported and non-constructive opinion posts bashing the author. Apparently you took it to mean any negative opinion of the author and I suspect our disagreement rests largely on this point. I can not speak for the AC so you may be right that his comment was intended as a blanket covering literally every negative Jordan post.

What could have been a great opportunity to discuss the book, the new author, and the comparative writing styles has devolved into nothing more than a long repetition of +5 moderated comments to the effect of "Jordan was a long winded bastard who couldn't finish a series". That's a fair criticism but only the first time it is said. Yet it is repeated in so many words in about 12 +5 comments before this thread.

That is what has me upset and I suspect the AC as well. Not that criticism exists but that this thread has become little more than a bashfest with haters being given the loudest voice. These posters have taken a loud volume and someone considering reading the series would read this discussion and think it the prevailing opinion. It is not the prevailing opinion, there are more NY Times bestselling books in this series than I have fingers.

"No, you did:

If you really must hate read the chapter and then hate on the content."

Taken out of context. If it was not clear, let me rephrase to make it clear. 'If one really must hate, read the chapter, then hate on the content.'

Outside of what I believe to be an overly literal interpretation of the AC's words I didn't notice any hate comments from you regarding Jordan. My comments were certainly not intended as a personal attack.

"You know, I'm beginning to feel sorry for you. I'd heard of people like you, but I think it's my first time communicating with a live specimen. The kind of nerd with a little job and a little life who comes online to jump into a thread where other people were debating and bicker endlessly about details so he can feel good and superior at something."

I prefer to think this assault was the result of you feeling attacked and cornered. Rather than lashing back in turn and furthering negative sentiments I hope I have cleared things up.

You seem an intelligent fellow. If we can not reconcile our difference of opinion on the subject then that is alright. People don't always have to agree. But I would hate to part trading slights over any matter but especially a matter as trivial as this one.

Re:Oooo ya

[ReverendDG]

so the truth is exposed! robert jordan's characters were all furries! horse furries! i mean why else did they sniff and snort all the time? that can only be the right answer!

Re:Oooo ya

[Bashae]

Very classy reply. I think you're right about our disagreement, and I apologize for my previous post.

Re:Oooo ya

[plastbox]

Thanks, will without a doubt be looking into Sanderson's writings. At the moment, I am 217 pages into Warbreaker. Can't say it's Jordan or Tolkien, but it's not Twilight either. Actually, I think it ranks pretty close to the Sin Wars trilogy (Blizzard Diablo lore) both in terms of use of language and story-telling. It takes considerable talent to "paint the picture", so to speak, like Tolkien did. I still daydream about attending a party in the Shire with all the merrymaking, consumption of homemade food and drink and pipe smoking. Aaaah.. To be a hobbit! *sigh*

Re:Oooo ya

[khchung]

there's so many sub-plots, and new characters, and little side quests, that you can go through an entire book and the main plot didn't advance at all.

I may be the minority here, but I actually liked the side plots and other characters. Although some of the characters (e.g. Perrin and Faile) I would prefer Jordan not to write so long about, but I understand some people do like them so I tolerate it.

While it may seems like the main plot didn't advance, but I say it would make a boring story if we just read Rand blow through all obstacles one by one and then win Tarmon Gaidon (we all knew he will win, don't we?) and then "The End". When Jordan describe the background and thoughts of even "side" characters (e.g. Bors) in detail, I appreciate the effort he took and amazed at the consistency of the whole thing.

From the start, it is quite clear to me that the story is about more than just Rand. Especially when the story focused on Mat leaving Tar Valon, I realized every one from Edmund's Field will play an important part.

I started when the first 4 books or so have been published, have re-read the series nearly every time a new book came out (and a couple times extra in-between), so I must have gone the whole thing 5-6 times by now. Yet on every re-read, I noticed things I missed before, and found hints and subtle references in the early books about plots revealed a few books later in the series. E.g. Mat first saw the Tower on Genjei (sp?) very early in the story when fleeing Shadar Logoth (I think), then a few books later Perrin saw it again in the World of Dream when chasing Slayer, then more hints about "snakes and foxes" when Mat play with Olver, and finally in the previous book we know Mat is going to get inside to save Moiranne (sp?).

I felt amazed at the gigantic plot Jordan was weaving in the book, and I can appreciate both the effort it took and realize it may take time to read. This is not the "I will write another sequel if it sells" kind of series here. It is clear that Jordan has at least most of the major plots in he head every early in the series.

I also realize this series is not for every one.

But if it took 3 more books for Mr. Sanderson to finish the story properly, I thank him for taking the time to do the job properly (at his own expense too!) rather than taking a shortcut.

Re:Oooo ya

[Thuktun]

Further Frodo isn't Elendil Reborn, Pippin doesn't speak to wolves, and Merry doesn't have extraordinary luck. Orthanc has an old, corrupted wizard in it rather than a boatload of powerful, ageless women. Nazgul are a few, corrupted Kings of Men, and are much harder to kill than Myrdraal.

The differences are vast, only someone who's only shallowly read one or both would think they compare significantly.

Re:Oooo ya

[Thuktun]

Ah, that explains the stunning similarities between Baerlon and Bree, Bela and Bill the pony, etc.

Re:Oooo ya

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a bit of a fantasy fan, particularly Tolkien and Moorcock, and Jordan was the toilet paper of fantasy fiction.

I see you've never read David Eddings.

2 books or one book?

[Jonathan Walther]

What I want to know is, are they going to release it as two volumes like they threatened, or will they keep Robert Jordan's word that it will stay in one volume even if it has to run more than 1200 pages long?

Re:2 books or one book?

[FluffyWithTeeth]

Sanderson's said it's going to be three volumes, because Tor didn't want to print it in one large volume, and there was already an agreement to publish by the end of this year, and he hadn't finished it all anyway.

Re:2 books or one book?

[blankinthefill]

Here's Sanderson's post on why he split the book into 3 parts: http://www.brandonsanderson.com/article/56/Splitting-AMOL

Re:2 books or one book?

[kiss_my_face]

Cached version of the above page as it seems to have died

There isn't enough bandwidth in the world

[xC0000005]

to download this book if they followed Jordan's writing style. The first chapter alone will contain so many electrons the internet itself will become unbalanced. Seriously, I swear he was paid by the pound for how much his books weighed. Long, flowery descriptions of clothing, scenery, hell, the crust on the underside of a chamber pot in the thirteenth bathroom of the summer home of the ice king's third cousin's dog. The series ought to come with a Wheel-barrow of time to avoid slipping a disc. Still, as long as there are trees left to kill and money to be earned the series will "be continued."

Re:There isn't enough bandwidth in the world

[orkysoft]

It compresses remarkably well, though.

Re:There isn't enough bandwidth in the world

[xC0000005]

Yeah, you wouldn't think there would be that many instances of
"The diaphenous mist hung deep upon the mountain side from which there thundered forth the voice of ten thousand angry locust gods whose pus had once made the rivers of the southern continent run yellow, when the da'cam did first venture forth from the underground cavern from which all which is evil once did rise, and a wind like the wind from Elon's third midwive's flatulent second husband wracked the pines"

But you would be wrong.

Re:There isn't enough bandwidth in the world

[Anonymous Coward]

Witty (and at times, perfectly spot-on) remarks aside, there are those of us who really like his writing style.

Ok, once in a while, especially in the later books it was "omgf, wtf is this shit", but when he nailed it, it was brilliant.

Re:There isn't enough bandwidth in the world

[Bashae]

Some of the middle-later books were awful.

Of course, if Jordan hadn't had his good prose, we would never have read the damn series in first place. The people making jokes are those who read the first books, loved them, and then went all the way to book 11 (12 if you include New Spring) and felt betrayed. Some of those descriptive moments were really too much, and you shouldn't need hundreds of pages to narrate a single (and often unimportant!) event. Besides, it was supposed to be a 7 or 9 book series originally?

Re:There isn't enough bandwidth in the world

[Anonymous Coward]

Originally, it was meant to be six books.
Book 12 was meant to be the last (i.e., the upcoming one).
Mr. Sanderson can't write it as one book, so instead it'll be three books.

In other words, 14 main-story books, plus New Spring, plus the other eventual pre-story books and The World of the Wheel of Time.
If you really want to, you could New Spring twice. There were plans for three other books as well (taking place during and after the main story).
This brings us to 22 - 23 books.

Let's see what happens with the cartoonization efforts as well.
Of course, I could always go ahead and talk about the cut-up versions of TEotW and TGH...

Re:There isn't enough bandwidth in the world

[Anonymous Coward]

TBH, I've enjoyed all 12 of the books, EVEN THE MIDDLE ONES.

People these days have no patience. Plenty of stuff happens in books 5-10. The difference is it's not your typical "zero to hero saves the world singlehandedly, and whines about his shitty life/getting the girl while doing it."

WoT is amazing for its refusal to "let the good guys win." Tactics prevail over the usual "bad guys can't hit the side of a barn" and "good guys defeat impossible odds because of dumb luck."

I've read the entire series multiple times, and I can't wait to see what Sanderson comes up with.

------

Disclaimer: I think the repetition in terms of descriptive language should definitely be scrapped. That annoys me. However, I'm the type of reader that can just skim over that, missing most of a paragraph, and go right to the next important line instinctively. If you're that kind of person it's not hard at all to get through the books.

Try it, and you can really see what's going on in the middle books (hint: a lot, the reason the series is so long is because he attempted to broaden his scope of narration more than any author I've ever seen. He narrates EVERY country in his WORLD, not just where the protagonists are currently.)

Re:There isn't enough bandwidth in the world

[jdevivre]

It compresses remarkably well, though.

That's because "pulled her braid" and "smoothed her skirts" comprise 47% of the content.

Re:There isn't enough bandwidth in the world

[The_Wilschon]

You forgot "crossed her arms underneath her breasts".

Neither. try 3...

[tehdaemon]

3 volumes, and it would have been around 1200 pages. Apparently binding such large books is hard/expensive

T

Re:Neither. try 3...

[moosesocks]

Not really. Quite a few of the books in the series approached that number.

Of course, one of Jordan's greatest faults was his inability to break his stories down into manageable chunks. If Sanderson's able to do this, while preserving the spirit of the originals, I'd definitely approve of it.

Damn. Now I have to pick up where I left off with the series, and probably re-read the first bits given just how %*##&ing complex it is.

Re:Neither. try 3...

[tehdaemon]

Meh. The page numbers in my post are off. That is what I get for going from memory. I remember a post either from the editor, or the publisher saying something to the effect that 'we can't bind books that big' - refering to the size the book would have been if they hadn't split it.

T

Re:Neither. try 3...

[phoomp]

I only ever read 4 of the books in the series, and found them to be WAY too large. The first book split in half down the spine before I finished it. And, I was grateful because it was easier to read. Books 2-3 I split on my own before I even started reading them.

Re:Neither. try 3...

[LandDolphin]

I believe Brandon Sanderson's blog said it was going to be in the range of 750,000 - 800,000 words. The publishers wanted the book to be about 250,000 words. To continue, Brandon Sanderson stated that his contract is to write a book of at least 250,000 words. So, he could have gotten away with 1 book instead of writing three. So, seeing as he is not being paid for any extra words past 250,000 we can believe that he is not dragging it out for the money.

Re:Neither. try 3...

[Planesdragon]

If you think Sanderson is not getting a full share of the royalties, you're deluding yourself.

Re:Neither. try 3...

[cbhacking]

No, you're actually about right. The WoT books are typically around 800 pages (only one that I can remember broke 1000, and a few were in the 600s). Sanderson's conclusion was going to be over 1200 (but not by a huge amount, IIRC) and wouldn't have been finished by the end of this year (when it was promised). He would ahve split it into two books about the length of the rest of the series, but there was no good splitting point near the middle. So he split it into three books, each substantially shorter than the others, and finished the first one on time.

Re:Neither. try 3...

[HeronBlademaster]

He's getting paid separately for each book (he told me so in person), but it wasn't his idea to split the story into three volumes. Tor wanted to publish something this year (in November), but the story wasn't finished, so they asked him if there was a convenient place to split it; he's just doing what his publisher and editor want him to do.

Re:Neither. try 3...

[LandDolphin]

If your claim is true, than you should tell him that his blog is very misleading where he says "doing four times the work for the exact same pay."

Re:Neither. try 3...

[HeronBlademaster]

If you actually read what you're quoting, you'd see that he was referring to what he was contemplating doing, before Tor had him split it into three volumes.

He said splitting the book into three volumes

was not an easy choice. I knew it would anger some readers. I knew it would take a lot of time, and I would end up dedicating a great deal more of my life (and my family's life) to the Wheel of Time than I'd initially anticipated. At the very least, I was contemplating writing a book three to four times the length of the initial contract - essentially, doing four times the work for the exact same pay.

In other words, he knew that to get the whole story out in one book, he'd have to write three to four times as much as the initial contract specified, therefore doing four times the work for the same pay. And he was willing to do it, too. Remember, Tor wanted a book by November; Sanderson had to choose between "publish a railroaded, crappy story" and "split it into multiple coherent volumes".

Re:Neither. try 3...

[LandDolphin]

Like I said previously, if you do talk to him, you should let him know it was misleading.

Re:Neither. try 3...

[Mia'cova]

Maybe he'll put another update in to reflect the contract changes. He's a pretty open guy, based on asking him contract and rights questions at a book signing about a year ago. The blog postings were honest at the time of writing, even when very little was known and he had no requirement to share. Seems to me his basic methodology is to be as open as possible. I doubt his contract allows for him to disclose specific details.

Re:Neither. try 3...

[Old Wolf]

For comparison, LOTR (3 volumes + appendices) is about 500,000 words. This is a HUGE amount of work.

Spoiler Alert

[zapakh]

Snape kills Dumbledore!

No wait, that's not right...

Re:Spoiler Alert

[secolactico]

Loial kills Rand al'Thor. But only after Rand flips out and kills Elayne Avhienda and Min in a rather grisly way.

Fearing reprisals, the Ogier declare war on the White Tower and lose. The entire Ogier race goes extinct.

A pack of wolves mistake Perrin's continued brooding for an illness and give him a mercy killing.

Nynaeve breaks her neck in a freak braid-pulling incident.

Mat wakes up and finds Bobby Ewing in his shower and realizes it was all a dream.

Re:Spoiler Alert

[TeknoHog]

http://xkcd.com/109/

Re:Spoiler Alert

[MagusSlurpy]

No, Bela killed Asmodean.

Re:Spoiler Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

Nynaeve breaks her neck in a freak braid-pulling incident.

ROTFFL

Re:Spoiler Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

Lies! It was Narg!

Re:Spoiler Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah. That can't be right. You didn't have any of the female chars fold their arms under their bosoms!

Re:Spoiler Alert

[sukotto]

Jadis kills Aslan (but he gets better)

Re:Spoiler Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

wait.... are you serious? i know your probably joking but... you clearly have read the series and until the white tower killing all the ogier thing i thought you were serious and you had me freaking out.

Re:Spoiler Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

As someone who hasn't finished all of the Harry Potter books, I can say with conviction that your post sucks serious ass.

Thank you.

Re:Spoiler Alert

[Anonymous Coward]

Snape kills Dumbledore!

No wait, that's not right...

Nice ha

Rohan Shedrian

I like this approach

[indivisible]

Selling the prologue for $3? I guess the next step will be selling only the consonants of the first ten chapters for 15$.

Re:I like this approach

[Anonymous Coward]

Selling the prologue for $3? I guess the next step will be selling only the consonants of the first ten chapters for 15$.

It's not as bad as it sounds, the prologue is 1,200 pages.

Re:I like this approach

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not as bad as it sounds, the prologue is 1,200 pages.

But nothing happens until the last three pages. And the rest of the time you spend thinking "Which one is Aliendha? Was that one of the Aes Sedai... or the queen of uh... one of those countries... oh, no, it's a man... maybe it was uh...."

Re:The Culti Multi

[Anonymous Coward]

When the troll posts nobody listens. Go away troll!

Not quite.

[xC0000005]

The book itself is probably free to anyone who can read the prologue and live. You would think that a large number of people could do this - coma victims, people who have suffered brain death and live on ventilators. Then again I expect we'll see reports of "Coma victim awakens during middle of wheel of time reading, asks to be taken off life support if the reading doesn't stop."

This is not whoredom, this is blessed relief

[Sarusa]

This is not whoredom, this is blessed relief. I gave up on the series when I realized that the book I'd just read took 700 pages to get through... 45 minutes of real time? Or maybe it was a day, it's all lost in haze.

But anyone who's stuck to the series through however godawful books there are /needs/ an ending. They deserve an ending. I can't fault Tor here at all, they've done what they could.

I also don't envy Brandon Sanderson, having to slog through all of Jordan's books and notes and trying to make sense of it all and knowing it's probably a thankless job and the fans are going to hate you anyhow. The irony here is that Sanderson may be able to pull off something that Jordan himself would never have been able to pull off - actually ending the thing. You could see the Wheel of Time books as Zeno's Paradox in action. If with each book you only go half as far because you're cramming in twice as much detail, you will never reach the end. And I'm not sure Jordan ever would have been able to.

Re:This is not whoredom, this is blessed relief

[Anonymous Coward]

They deserve an ending. I can't fault Tor here at all, they've done what they could.

To not fault the publisher when they could have very well have an editor say "OK RJ, tone down the smoothing of skirts a bit, we've only got so much paper available" is a little silly. Tor is in the business of producing big thick fantasy novels for people who like their fiction long & their reality to be avoided for as much reading time as possible (myself included). They gave Jordan total free rein to write as he saw fit, and several novels of building action with no notable climax or denouement are the result of that - something that an editor might have otherwise corrected, were Tor more interested in succinct story development than in selling a ballooning number of volumes of an immensely popular series.

Stop after the Dragon Reborn

[Anonymous Coward]

I recommend reading the first three. When Rand kills Ba'alzamon, stop. Just stop. Rand thinks Ba'alzamon was the Dark One, so should you. Whatever you do, don't read the next chapter, or you will have to go through ten increasingly poor books just to reach the end of the plot.

Re:Stop after the Dragon Reborn

[daver_au]

I wish I had stopped there. I read up until book 7 or maybe 9. The one where absolutely nothing happens and Rand has less than one chapter in the entire book.

Re:Stop after the Dragon Reborn

[Reapy]

Yeah, I think 1/3 through book 9 I just put the thing down in disgust. What a waste of paper. But I think the books might be good if you sorta cut out the last few chapters of each book and combine them down into one, might have an interesting story then, maybe.

BRANDON SANDERSON!

[greenskyx]

The author of the new Wheel of Time Book rules. He is a fairly new author, but has some awesome books. They are some of the best epic fantasy books I've ever read. I highly suggest you read Elantris (http://www.brandonsanderson.com/book/Elantris) or Mistborn (http://www.brandonsanderson.com/book/Mistborn).

Re:BRANDON SANDERSON!

[jallen02]

I concur with the parent. I recently purchased and read through all four of his most popular novels: Elantris and the Mistborn Trilogy. Sanderson's default writing style is actually shorter and less descriptive... but then for first books you don't always get the luxury of killing an entire forest to describe a bedroom.

That said I have read the annotations for most of his books, Brandon's blog posts regarding his writing (cruise to his website and read up if your remotely interested) and the entire WoT series again. I have decided that with the amount of information Jordan left behind (plot) a writer of Sanderson's talent can pull it off. Sanderson has a much shorter paragraph length on average and his stories had great potential plot wise, he just chose to keep the stories shorter, though he has the vision of the grand epic. The real challenge will be nailing the details and tying up all of the plot threads on a coherent manner. The writing style, I think, Sanderson probably fell into after a few months of writing. Since Sanderson has already managed reasonably complex plots and seems to be keeping it all together (based on his blog posts) I hold high hopes for the completion of this series.

This is a series I started reading in early high school and have treasured to this day. Some books are better than others, but this series is THE epic fantasy story of the last 20 years. It is more of a brute force presence in the fantasy fiction world than something someone did decades ago like Tolkien. Jordan has defined an entire decade of writers and readers that have had to come to terms with his stories when they contemplate the fantasy epic. When an author sits down and thinks of a plot and story for a fantasy epic it is, in my opinion, Tolkien and Jordan that you struggle with: how do you do something different? How do you spin threads of a story of epic length while making the same old good triumphs of evil (epicly!) enjoyable? There are a lot of other great writers in the epic fantasy space and I don't mean to reduce it to the two most well known.... but they are where they are for a reason.

Anyhow... my rambling is done. I highly recommend Elantris and or the Mistborn trilogy. Though I suspect that most of us that have been eagerly waiting have already begun studying up on the man to finish up Jordan's legacy.

Re:BRANDON SANDERSON!

[ShakaUVM]

Ditto. Sanderson is one of my favorite new authors. Elantris and Mistborn both rocked, and Warbreaker was pretty good as well.

Also, Tor published one of his short stories online for free, and it's quite good. Like Ender's Game, but in about 20 pages:
http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=story&id=10489

Re:BRANDON SANDERSON!

[HeronBlademaster]

Agreed. Also, Warbreaker (his newest book) was released recently, and is available both in hardcover and as a PDF:

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/drafts/warbreaker/Warbreaker_hardcover_1st_ed.pdf

Re:BRANDON SANDERSON!

[Anonymous Coward]

Elantris is complete drivel. I read that book expecting to be "wowed"...and I was...by the complete lack of a single interesting chapter. The fact that BS is writing this book scares me. We are seriously headed for a train wreck on par with the sh!t-hole closers to the Dune series.

Re:BRANDON SANDERSON!

[ThousandStars]

How does he compare to, say, the execrable The Shadow of the Wind, or other novels that shoot for the standards of literary fiction but all too often miss?

Re:BRANDON SANDERSON!

[greenskyx]

Yeah, I just started that one. So far it's great, but I didn't want to recommend it until I had read it fully.

Re:BRANDON SANDERSON!

[Old Wolf]

(Best apart from LOTR, of course)

Re:BRANDON SANDERSON!

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, if you're a writer, he does a podcast on writing with Howard Taylor of Schlock Mercenary and another author, Dan Wells. Even if you're not a writer yourself, you might find peering into a writer's mind to be interesting.

huh

[mataamad]

And I had been planning on doing some study this morning... DAMMIT

News: Robert Jordan gets away with it

[David Gerard]

Rainforest destruction legend Robert Jordan has successfully evaded paying off the advance on what was originally a four-page satire of ridiculous fantasy cliches, The Wheel of Time.

The epic originated as a piece of semi-amusing cubemail circulating on a private mailing list for writers bored with their day jobs. "But I just kept adding and adding to it," Jordan confessed years later. "Then someone snuck it into an Eye Of Argon reading session. And the idio-- I mean, tasteful and discerning consumers of science fiction and fantasy loved it! They couldn't get enough of it! Certainly more than I could be bothered with, anyway. If only I could find the Caribbean island Elvis, Jimi, Janis and Kurt are hiding out on ..."

The process of writing was reflected in the work. "You get long, stringy drips of various elements. All recycled. Then you weave them together. We thought of using a wiki, but people kept putting Pokemons in. 'My Pokemans, let me show you them.' Idjits."

Plaudits came in from fellow fantasy writers around the globe. "I always found plot and characterisation overrated," said master fantasist J.R.R. Tolkein. "They only get in the way of exploring a really interesting constructed language. The more demanding sort of reader can be so very tiresome at times."

"Bugger," said David Eddings, frantically casting his eyes about for fresh sources.

"Who are you, and where did you get this number?" said Neil Gaiman.

Readers will be over the moon to learn that Kevin J. Anderson has contracted to finish the series in a suitable manner. "I figure there's another twenty, thirty books needed to finish it properly. Lotta unanswered questions, yeah. I should have 'em done by next week."

Woolheaded shepherds the world over fold their arms beneath their breasts, tug at their braids, smooth their skirts and bow their heads today, and remember Jordan's wise words:

"Plagiarism^WResearch is lighter than a feather; advances already received, heavier than a mountain."

Illustration: Robert Jordan silenced at last.

Why all the dissin'?

[blackfrancis75]

A quick survey of the comments so far paints an overwhelmingly negative picture for the series...
I just wanted to point out, as a life long fan of this series, that there IS a reason every book the series has appeared on the New York Times best-seller list, and most of them have been #1 when they first come out.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Anonymous Coward]

as a life long fan of this series

No kidding, I think there's every chance this series will still be unfinished when I die.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[n0dna]

Well, those people could respond too.

Like almost all the others posting here, I tried, I really did. I made it through the first 6 before I stopped.

Hell I even continued to buy them until the prequel came out just in case he ever finished them, but at some point nearly everyone I know who has tried to read them noticed that "nothing was happening", it looked like "nothing was ever going to happen", and when long-dead characters keep reappearing that meant "nothing had actually happened."

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[chill]

Why? You really don't know? Okay...

Because the first three books were damn good. The problem was, what should have been by all rights a 5-6 book series has turned into, what...12? The remaining books sort of meandered around, filling in niggling details and sub-plots that every other author on the planet saves until the second series set in the same locale. Jordan, however, crammed it in the middle. He admitted he had only outlined it to about 5 or 6 books.

Hell, I'm sure there are four WHOLE BOOKS of material in there that can be summed up as repetitions of "the men and women in this series can't communicate with each other worth a damn, and have egos the size of elephants".

Jordan was verbose. He made Tolstoy look parsimonious. A word used a couple times in WoT novels, by the way. The man probably bought thesauruses by the case.

The remaining books hit the best seller list by fans hoping he would finish the damn story before he died. And yes, that was the joke going around YEARS before he was sick, much less actually dead.

When I finally read Knife of Dreams my first thought was "Damn! He really is picking up the pace. I wonder what got into him?" I later learned it was cardiac amyloidosis is what got into him. A year and a half later he was dead. My first thoughts being "Wow. He DIDN'T finish the story before dying. Who'd a thunk it?" followed by "There are gonna be a lot of people online who now feel like assholes for jokes from years past!"

Thus, the commentary here Slashdot. There was a lot of sentiment expressed that Jordan was milking the series for all it was worth. The George Lucas of epic fantasy novels, if you will. I'm not convinced he wasn't, which is why I didn't get Knife of Dreams right away. I waited for the reviews before I decided it probably wasn't yet another string-em-along filler book.

That being said, I'll probably buy the final three novels in ebook form and acquire the others -- which I currently have in hardback -- as ebooks.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[complete loony]

Tell me about it. For those who haven't bothered to read to the end of the series yet, there's a world changing event that harnesses so much magical energy that every magic user on the planet can sense it. It starts at the end of one book, and finishes at the start of the book *after* the next book. The book in the middle reads like "where were you when Kennedy was shot", tracing through the lives of every major character in excruciating detail during the couple of hours or so that this event occurred.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[trytoguess]

Yep, there is a reason. For the latter books, it has more to do with popularity (similar to Windows) than any decent writing. Check out the reviews for the thenth book "Crossroads of Twilight" link. People absolutely loathed the book. Many wished to give zero star ratings, but couldn't since one star is the lowest Amazon allows. The eleventh book got something like 3.0-3.5 stars if memory serves, but like the other response says, I'm almost positive it's because Jordan was feeling rushed. Which by our standards means he was moving at a normal pace again.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[blackfrancis75]

What I'm saying is that a lot of people actually appreciate his style, and enjoy hearing a story being told at the story-teller's pace. Quite the opposite of the David Gemell fantasy-lite genre, Jordan took the time to create an entire universe and populate it entirely with three-dimensional characters and landscapes. Some people like this. If it's too much for your own attention span to take, then move along and let the rest of us (and yes, there are enough of us to put every book on the NYT best seller's list) enjoy it. You don't all have to express your frustrations every time the guy's name is mentioned.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Stormie]

When it comes to "Wheel of Time", you can divide the audience into two groups: people who don't like the series, and people who used to like the series but don't any more. That second group, however, has a large subgroup of people who don't like the series anymore, but who feel they have invested so much of their life reading it that they need to grind through in the hope of reaching a conclusion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost_dilemma may be instructive.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[chill]

I normally don't, but you asked so I explained.

Tolkien told a story at his own pace. David Eddings did as well. Ditto for Terry Brooks. I have plenty of patience for a good story. Jordan just gives the feeling of milking it by inserting all the minutia in the middle. Or as a prequel, written in the middle of one story and sold as a separate book. Don't forget the prequel!

Enjoy away. As I said, I'll be buying the remaining books myself if for nothing else, closure. It'll be a bonus if they're more enjoyable than laborious.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Hucko]

People are still *buying* MS Windows and you think that because it is popular is a recommendation? Weird.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[blackfrancis75]

you "windows is crap - people only buy it because they're sheep" people are funny.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[TexVex]

Are you seriously? I stopped reading at the beginning of book 10 when I nearly fell asleep reading the prologue. I flipped back a couple pages to resume at the last part I remembered, paused a moment to see how long the prologue actually was, and just flat dropped the book when I discovered it went on for another seventy pages.

The whole series of thousand-page tomes has just been hit or miss for me. I quite frankly have grown to loathe most of the characters, and since no plot line seems to ever get resolved I have no faith that the (eventual, theoretical) ending will actually bring any closure. Which, due to the very nature of the Wheel and the mantra about it that opens the first chapter of every book, seems like a very real and un-ironic possibility.

So should I just skip #10? Or just give up on the series completely?

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Nightspirit]

There is a giant frustration with fantasy authors that just can't seem to close a story. Tolkien got it right: create 3-4 main books, then a couple supplemental. Jordan couldn't do it in >12 books, and George R.R. Martin seems to be heading in the same direction.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[HeronBlademaster]

When you read the series not once, but four times, it becomes apparent that you aren't just claiming to like it due to the sunk cost of time; if you read the Wheel of Time four times, you actually like it, no question about it.

(Yes, I've read the Wheel of Time four times, and I'll start a fifth read before the release of the next book right after I finish my first read of George R.R. Martin's series. I don't keep reading series I don't like, even if I've invested a lot of time in them. For example, I stopped reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series halfway through the last book because it passed my tolerance threshold.)

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I've read the Wheel of Time four times, and I'll start a fifth read before the release of the next book right after I finish my first read of George R.R. Martin's series.

That's a good strategy. Reading George R.R. Martin's series will really put things in perspective, when it comes to authors wallowing in their sense of self importance and milking a popular series for all it is worth. Robert Jordan will actually look like a bit of a hero compared to.

I read WoT. I'll admit I actually enjoyed it, at least until the last couple of books, where it became blatantly apparent that the series was being intentionally drawn out.

I read George R.R. Martin's series, and I really enjoyed it, at least until the last book, which was supposed to be the final one, but clearly was published only to lay the groundwork for what will likely be another three or four books just to close off the astonishingly high number of loose threads flapping around in that series.

I like Terry Brooks. His work is generally predictive and derivative, but at least he is consistent in terms of closing off his story lines. You don't feel violated having to purchase each series in a succession.

But seriously, when it comes to George R.R. Martin, take all of the venom and bile being expelled in this thread towards Robert Jordan, and then multiply it by infinity. That's what you have to look forward with the series. Brilliantly intriguing, but be prepared for an eternity of non-closure.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[HeronBlademaster]

Brilliantly intriguing, but be prepared for an eternity of non-closure.

Yeah, that's the one thing I haven't liked about A Game of Thrones. It's never a good sign when new apparently major characters are being introduced in the last 100 pages.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Mia'cova]

You can either wait and see what people think of sanderson's books or get reading. It seems like a waste to skip a book. If it helps, the general consensus is that sanderson's conclusion will be nothing short of epic. He's an incredible writer.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Mia'cova]

I really loved the prequel. It's a shame he didn't have a chance to write more of those quick one-off shorts.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Zalminen]

First three books were damn good?

Strange, I thought they were ok but not that great.

I started to get bored around book two but originally kept reading since I didn't really have anything to better to read back then. And boy am I glad I did.

If you ask me, the books really became great somewhere after Rhuidean and following Mat's storyline actually made me giggle out loud several times.(Not very manly, yea I know)

Yes, there's a lot of reading in Jordan's books but I don't mind that much since I'm a quick reader and even the side stories are interesting enough to keep my interest.

Can't wait to to see how well Sanderson does with the ending.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[khchung]

Reading George R.R. Martin's series will really put things in perspective, when it comes to authors wallowing in their sense of self importance and milking a popular series for all it is worth.

I take it you have not read The Sword of Truth series...

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[chromatic]

Jordan took the time to create an entire universe and populate it entirely with three-dimensional characters and landscapes.

Characters don't count as three-dimensional if all female characters wear the same high-necked, well-embroidered dresses, have the same braid-tugging, nose-sniffing mannerisms, and consider the male characters wooly-headed fools, repeatedly.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Anonymous Coward]

Three dimensional characters? One of the reasons I stopped reading was because there was an endless stream of new characters being introduced, every one of them two dimensional nobodies it was impossible to care about, or even remember.

Jordan is the equivalent of the film maker's "guy that refuses to leave even a single frame on the editing room floor". Or the guy that insists an inconsequential coast-to-coast plane trip - where nothing at all relevant or interesting happens - is shown in real time.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people kept buying the books because they were clinging to the hope it would at some point wrap up the story with a satisfying conclusion. I gave up hope quite a few books ago myself. I would buy a $5 summary of the actual story though. That should be easily done in a handful of pages.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[scruffy]

The first time I thought each successive book was more and more of a drag. The second time I read them one after the other, and that turned out pretty good. You just need to think of each book as a very long chapter. Of course, it wouldn't this series justice to close it off now in one chapter, I mean one book.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Marivea]

I enjoy the WoT books immensely, likely due to the fact that I empathize with most of the characters. RJ got into the characters heads and made them real to me, they seemed like actual people and not type-written pieces of sentimental crap like half the known writers in the world do. Even if his books at times seemed perhaps a little drawn out and I will admit the flowery descriptions could have been done away with, WoT will always be one of my favorite series.

Re:Why all the dissin'?

[Hucko]

Ahh... I personally believe people buy Windows because they believe that as it is Microsoft Software it must be good. To hell with science, facts and history! The salesman told me! (Okay I acknowledge that is a strawman)

Sheep? Damn inconsiderate, I'd say. If people treated cars like they do computers, we'd all be driving Ford Pintos. A laugh a minute.

a really simple way to deal with the series...

[perlchild]

is to realize it's a perfect textbook example why shortening a series can make it better, but seldom will lenghtening it will bring any good.

Re:a really simple way to deal with the series...

[ISoldat53]

I don't know what the problem is. Something happens almost every 200 pages.

Re:a really simple way to deal with the series...

[perlchild]

at 800 pages a book... that's quite a metric...

I wonder how it translates to LOCs...

Re:a really simple way to deal with the series...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to mention an exception to your point, though. I was kind of a fan of Wheel of Time in the beginning, and I quickly grew bored of it but I kept buying the books anyway for whatever reason. But I was never excited after about the third book for basically the reasons everyone else has already described.

At some point I picked up George R R Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire" series, and it rocked my socks. The language and writing style were better. By far. I mean, not even close. Never does a single chapter go by where you think, "Ugh.. one down, 42 to go." Something always happens. Often something very unexpected, and you're left wondering what the hell is going on or how he's going to make this work. But he always does. I never get the impression that he's trying to fill pages. If anything, I feel like he's working hard to cram as much actual plot into a book as is possible.

Anyway, getting back to your point.. this series is turning out to be longer than Martin originally anticipated. A Feast for Crows ended up having to be split because it was getting too big, and some decisions were made about how he was going to tell the story (basically he ended up telling one side of the plot--the Westeros side of it--while the next book "A Dance of Dragons" tells the other side of it--the Daenerys side). But it was still written extremely well.

I'm constantly disappointed at how long it takes for Martin to release a book, but each time he does I'm relieved because they always turn out to be amazing. I have not been disappointed yet.

Sadly, I was disappointed many times in a row when I read a new Jordan book. I guess I'm either stupid for not learning to stop buying his books, or I just have too much time on my hands in between Martin books.

I guess that's why these went off Webscriptions

[argent]

Just checked Baen.com and all the Tor books sold through Webscriptions seem to be listed as "not currently available". Guess Tor wants to cut out the middleman.

My braid

[thefringthing]

I'm tugging it.

Jordan could have finished

[Herkum01]

I don't understand, if you skip all the text referring to someone "smoothing out her split riding skirt" you could have probably saved a couple of volumes.

Re:Jordan could have finished

[Achromatic1978]

That and his predilection for chubby chasing. What percentage of the female population were "plumply pretty" again, remind me?

And I wish I could have been a coke dealer, with all that sniffing...

Re:Jordan could have finished

[justinlee37]

Maybe he is just marketing the book to the largest audience possible; the average female body is not the sort of airbrushed toothpick they like to show in beauty advertisements.

Spoiler: OMG, more Braid pulling

[Jonathan Walther]

Just read the first chapter. I can't believe it. The new author is a chip off the old block. He managed to include a braid-tugging scene. Other than that, I think he did a good job. Hopefully he picks up the pace; the pacing of the first chapter was a lot like RJ, perhaps a tiny bit faster and cleaner.

Re:Spoiler: OMG, more Braid pulling

[srothroc]

A scene where she DIDN'T pull the braid, you mean.

RJ actually wrote some stuff himself; it wasn't all just notes and scribbling. He wrote a fair bit of the book(s) himself in different sections, and Brandon Sanderson is filling in the gaps. So the chapter you're praising for being better than RJ's writing may actually, you know, be RJ's writing.

Re:Spoiler: OMG, more Braid pulling

[Mia'cova]

One early review compared the pacing to book 6. So I expect some early drama, a lot of stress building throughout, and a massive conclusion.

WoT Religion?

[Dyinobal]

The wheel of time is one of those series that I think could of ended up like a religion. Eventually someone starts a religion around the wheel of time proclaiming that Robert Jordan (their literary messiah) will return to earth to finish the series. Thankfully another author is going to freaking finish it so we are spared another terrible religion on this planet. Unless of course someone declares this new author the devil and the subsequent books false. Then we may have a buncha of people waiting for the return of Jordan to write the end.

Re:WoT Religion?

[chill]

You had possibilities until the phrase "...to finish the series." No true WoT acolyte would ever utter those words. I believe the only reason it was called "Wheel of Time" is because "The Neverending Story" was already taken.

Now, if you change the phrase to "...to continue the series" then you might be on to something.

Sanderson

[hansamurai]

A few months, maybe a year ago we were discussing Jordan and Sanderson, I mentioned that even if Jordan can't finish a series, he sure can finish a book! The guy writes epic endings, someone here mentioned that Sanderson is just as good, and being on the third book of the Mistborn series, I would definitely agree. I have full confidence that he can finish the series well.

Give Sanderson a chance!

[SirJorgelOfBorgel]

I too, have been disappointed by Robert Jordan's later books. When he passed away I was really pissed off the series wasn't done yet while he could have finished it 6 books ago, and I had never heard of Brandon Sanderson.

However, I decided to check out Sanderson's works - and I was amazed. He is now one of my favorite fantasy authors. While the man himself seems to be a great fan of Jordan's series, I would personally say each of his books surpass the entire Wheel of Time series in both writing style and originality. While it is my opinion that his stories are not as 'epic' as other series, they are an absolute joy to read and I found it hard to stop reading them (and actually get some shut-eye). Stop bashing on the series and give Sanderson a chance, he may actually surprise you and make these closing chapters of WoT worth the read.

In another comment someone mentioned picking up the "Song of Ice and Fire" series from George R.R. Martin in a comment above. I did the same and I was also completely blown away! However, one must note that it has been a while since his last publication in the series and the next book is getting more and more delayed, while George R.R. Martin himself has now passed 60 years of age and still has at least two more books to write [after this one]. Let's hope we'll not have to pull "a Sanderson" on him as well.

Either way, if you enjoyed George R.R. Martin and are looking for something worthy to read, you might also enjoy Steven Erikson. While he's no Martin, his "Malazan book of the Fallen" series is definitely worth reading!

Re:Give Sanderson a chance!

[Yunzil]

George R.R. Martin himself has now passed 60 years of age and still has at least two more books to write [after this one].

And yet he has plenty of time to post on his blog about the Giants during football season, go to endless conventions, and edit more Wild Cards books. Plus he has said something along the lines of all his notes will be destroyed when he's dead so no one will be able to finish the series.

Face it, we will never see the end of ASoIaF.

Suck suck suck

[TiggertheMad]

God, you have way more testicular fortitude than I do. I barely could finish the first book it was so bad. It read like a bad LoTR derivative until about half way through the book it just plain started sucking. I cannot imagin what the remaining 10 books are like.

Audiobooks!

[Anonymous Coward]

I read the series in high school, and have been re-reading in anticipation for this release. This time around, however, I've been listening to the audiobooks instead of reading the series .. and wow am I glad I decided to do that! So well done, it really brings the story alive! It also helps keep the excitement going in what would be otherwise dry chapters. Personally, I also find it nice to know how many of the words were meant to be pronounced, something which isn't always easy to accomplish when reading a fantasy series.

There's a film coming out about him too

[fxPPC]

Heard about this on one of the fan sites. Some film-makers are putting together a documentary about Jordan. The website is at http://wots.spiralent.com/ Looks interesting, hope it is shorter than the books!

Why all the dissin'? Because it's deserved

[ThousandStars]

Why? You really don't know? Okay...

The big problem is that Jordan depends on cliche and an adolescent view of sexuality to fuel his novels. I read the first six books in middle school, and at the time my Dad wanted to see some of the "dragon books" I read -- he got through a couple of Wheel of Time novels before giving up. I thought he didn't know what he was talking about.

When I tried reading them again in college, my literary taste had developed enough to make the problems so obvious that I wondered how I read them in the first place: the characters were flat, the writing stale, and Jordan seemed to have so little grasp of how people behave.

That so many people defend Jordan's writing is one reason for the unfair "genre/literary" divide afflicting science fiction and fantasy.

There is good science fiction and fantasy out there; most recently, Lev Grossman's The Magicians astonished me. Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy is excellent. I could go on. Given that there is some really, really good material out there, the continued fascination with Robert Jordan or his brother-in-writing Terry Goodkind surprises me.

Re:Why all the dissin'? Because it's deserved

[Anonymous Coward]

"His Dark Materials"?

It's a poorly constructed diatribe written by a bigoted author who can't distinguish between atheism and gnosticism.

Re:Why all the dissin'? Because it's deserved

[DaedylusSL]

I'm a huge WoT fan, started reading them right before the 6th book came out. And I've noticed something really weird. I agree with most of the negative things people say about it. The books are too long. There's too much description of scenery (although even Tolkien seemed to think that everyone wants to know what kind of trees were in every forest in Middle Earth). Lots of the characters (women, in particular) are kind of 1-dimensional. All true. But here's the thing: to me, anyway, the story is just so freaking cool that all the negative stuff no longer matters. After reading a page/scene/book/etc I don't think about the writing. I remember what happened. There's most of a very long, very cool movie in my head. And I am thrilled to have Sanderson giving me the ending that Jordan intending to that movie.

$2.99 for what should be free

[Anonymous Coward]

Prologue for $2.99 !!!!!
Few pages for almost three dolars???? Are they crazy? $2.99 should be the price for the book in e-book format, not just a prologue which should be free, (like a trailer for movies).

And besides, I read three first books in this series, they were all written from the same template (with some variances in the first one):
1. we need to go to some place
2. the master bad guy is there
3. we go there and kill it, and it appears that it wasn't the master bad guy, but his pet

Re:$2.99 for what should be free

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, the average WoT-prologue is large enough to fill a book on its own. A wordcount on a random book (Crossroads of Twilight) shows over 30k words in the prologue alone.

Re:Nynaeve

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot the boxing of ears.

You gave up at the worst possible time...

[Anonymous Coward]

I quit somewhere around book six.

Well, then, you quit at exactly the wrong time. Book six is, I'd say, the nadir of the series. It gets progressively better from there, and the further you get, the more Jordan managed to actually weave those bazillion story threads into a coherent plot tapestry. I almost quit at book six too, but I'm glad I stayed with it, because I thoroughly enjoyed books 8-11 (although I really wish he'd wrapped it up at 10, he'd started too many subplots to be able to do that, I think).

Re:You gave up at the worst possible time...

[atamido]

The parent is lying. Whatever you do, do not listen to him.

i don't care about the dead horse

[someone1234]

I won't even bother reading the free content if it has anything to do with Jordan. Sorry.
It started interesting, it became boring, then when he started resurrecting antagonists, it became ridiculously annoying.

Maybe they should find a replacement for

[counterplex]

George R. R. Martin as well. He's taking forever and a decade finishing a dance with dragons.

Re:Maybe they should find a replacement for

[An ominous Cow art]

That's because you have to be very careful when dancing with dragons - accidentally stepping on a toe can get you eaten.

ebook editions to be released soon

[WillAdams]

Blog link about the covers here:

http://igallo.blogspot.com/2009/09/wheel-of-time-ebook-repackaging-or-wo0t.html

William

y'all let me know

[drdrgivemethenews]

I'm kind of semi-permanently pissed off at getting suckered into buying+reading the last four books of that series. So let's please have some reviews when/if the series actually ends. (Calling the next volume "The Gathering Storm" doesn't induce confidence--the storm has gathered and dispersed some dozens of times already by my count).

Funny how we Americans insist on endings though. The Europeans are not so fussy, it seems, at least to judge by their movies.

But, is that the end??

[sherriw]

Someone tell me, will this book be the last??

(Please god let it be done)

It's about time.

[TheQuantumShift]

Not for the new book, but for new cover art. I know life in Randland is hard and all, but the main characters look like grisled 40-somethings by book three, and the women look more late twenties. And let's remove the "pronunciation help" from the glossary, not even Jordan followed them.

Yay me!

[rcuhljr]

Well I'll post as someone who actually likes the series. I'm on my fifth read through as I wait on the new book. Some people certainly have valid criticism about certain stretches of the novels, however each time I've gone through the series I've been more impressed and enjoyed reading it more each time. He really displays an amazing attention to detail and he rarely puts in things which are pointless. The only exception I make to this clause are his common repeated characterizations. Namely skirt straightening, Perrin being cautious because he's large, etc. We've been with you for thousands of pages, no one is picking up the books at number 10 and starting fresh. He already asks a lot from the readers with regards to paying attention and putting together clues, it's odd that he belabors some parts so heavily (Note I say this before the series is over, maybe my opinion on this will change). One line offhand comments he makes I can now attach to something that will happen or be explained 3000 pages later. Some of the story threads I like less then others, however the ones I dislike are almost always different then the ones others dislike, and they all fit together to make the fabric of the world. As someone mentioned earlier it is vaguely Rube Goldberg-esque.

He weaves an incredibly detailed story line using an impressive amount of characters, and it's one of the best series I've ever read if you enjoy putting together clues as you go. I haven't had a read through where I haven't had new 'aha' moments as I find hidden meanings he's left. I like some characters, I find others infuriating, but that's the point, his characters make me feel something as I read and I don't hesitate to pick up the first book again every year or so when my reading to-do list is empty.

Good point about EG

[Radical Moderate]

I read 5 or 6 WoT books and realized Jordan was never going to finish the series and gave it up. I read a couple of the Enders Game sequels and just didn't enjoy them much, but EG is till one of my favorite books. Wish Jordan would have started with a good, complete story than taken it on from there. But he did sell a lot of books...

Re:Good point about EG

[atamido]

I ended up listening to the second half of the WoT books on tape while working out as I couldn't stand to actually read them. The EG sequels weren't terribly great to me, but I did enjoy the Hedgemon series, which parallels Ender's Game for a part of it. It's interesting to view the events of Ender's Game from a different perspective, and I get the feeling that it would have been interesting for the WoT series too. The problem seemed that he was trying to show it from 10 different perspectives simultaneously in his books, which just makes it exceedingly drawn out for anything to happen.

I could never deal with the WOT books...

[hazydave]

... tried the first one a few years back, it just didn't "pop". Can't answer for the whole series, of course.

On the other hand, Brandon Sanderson is a fine writer/storyteller IMHO... I loved the "Mistborn" trilogy. So if you are a WOT fan, the series might well go out with a good story. Finally.

Wheel of bore?

[sonciwind]

I suffered through several of these as audio books over a series of long road trips. I hope the new author didn't try to mimic Jordan's style.