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Greg Kroah-Hartman Gripes About Microsoft's Linux Contribution; MS Renews Effort
dp619 writes "Microsoft's developers were missing in action after the company donated GPL-licensed drivers to the Linux kernel community in July, leaving significant work to the Linux community, according to Linux driver project lead and Novell fellow Greg Kroah-Hartman. The company rekindled its involvement after Kroah-Hartman published a status report this week. Kroah-Hartman said that other companies were also laggards in Linux development, and that Microsoft's lack of involvement was nothing out of the ordinary."
Hmm.. did they forget to thank? It's quite common to cry about this and that... when the only think needed is to shut your mouth and THANK for the little help.
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
Kuhn credited the community for using a "friendly" strategy to enforce GPL by quietly working with Microsoft to inform it of its obligations, and by helping the company into compliance.
If you're over zealous about it, MS will just stop contributing. They really don't have much to gain financially from this and as far as PR is concerned, well, I have a feeling that MS' actions won't be good enough for some in the F/OSS community.
It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
From the blog,
...hmm - hyper-v in Linux?
"hv (Microsoft Hyper-V) drivers. Over 200 patches make up the massive cleanup effort needed to just get this code into a semi-sane kernel coding style (someone owes me a bit bottle of rum for that work!) Unfortunately the Microsoft developers seem to have disappeared, and no one is answering my emails. If they do not show back up to claim this driver soon, it will be removed in the 2.6.33 release. So sad..."
In other words, there is some coding to do. Did the Kernel devs coordinate with the managers at MS to ensure resources would be available to work on these patches? (200 patches is not a lot in my opinion. I have a minor patch coming out on the 21st for my in-house system with 2000+ users and it has over 300 fixes.)
I wonder if there was a minor miscommunication...
Cool!
The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
I don't get it. Microsoft donates code to the community, licensed under the GPL. Anyone is free to do whatever they like with this code (well, within the constraints of the license), and people are actually bitching about this? I've released quite a few pieces of software under various OSI licenses, and I don't actively maintain the code. If somebody else wants to, fine. Would everyone be happier if Microsoft weren't releasing anything at all?
I use Debian for almost all my server needs, and I'm a big fan of Ubuntu on the desktop. That said, I'm certainly not going to bitch at someone or some company because they aren't slaving away maintaining code I got free of charge.
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
Quote from the article:
GKH also said:
If the driver was in such poor shape and didn't follow the kernel coding guidelines, then how did it make it into the kernel in the first place? I was under the impression that the kernel maintainers had pretty strict guidelines about coding style and what is and isn't acceptable.
Cory Doctorow talking about cloud computing makes as much sense as George W Bush talking about electrical engineering.
Two thirds of the summary are lifted directly from the sdtimes link...
This is for the drivers/staging tree, which is specifically set aside for drivers that don't meet normal code standards but where the intent is to bring them up to par for merging into the "real" tree.
I've already had a few posts of my own down modded with, "Overrated." That's the moderation reason which, when FSF drones get mod points, they typically use, because it's the closest thing available to, "-1, Disagree," or, "-1, Author is writing statements contrary to our programming, which is unacceptable."
I'm also noticing that everyone who says the right things, about how evil Microsoft are, and about how perfectly just the community response is, predictably gets modded Insightful, as well.
How long is Linux going to be choked and held back by your existence, FSF? How long will we have a scenario here on Slashdot, where it is forbidden to make statements which are contrary to your mind control?
Keep modding me down, you corrupt, brainwashed cowards. My karma here is high enough that I can withstand it just fine. You haven't silenced me in nearly 10 years now, and I don't know why you'd think you're going to be able to at this point.
I will be interested to see if any of you actually have the spine to respond to this, or if you'll just respond rapidly and predictably, by down-modding me to -1. I've made it easy for you; you can almost claim your use of -1, Offtopic was legitimate!
First I don't blame MS for doing what they did, I do thank them, though I don't use or benefit from their code.
Second, how can anyone actually defend MS actions here. They got caught benefiting from public efforts and were forced to release the minimum code. They put little effort into the task and delivered crap (as usual). So Good on you MS, now can you please clean up the pile of $%# you left in the corner, thank you.
astonishing
Why bother
It only got accepted after the cleanup, done by GKH.
New things are always on the horizon
The driver is deliberately a mess, so it distracts Linux developers from working on Linux and wastes their time with Microsoft's kludge
I fail to see why Novell should be doing the work for a competitor, but I suppose that's what they're best at these days.
Greg K-H's public comments about the code being abandoned had the desired effect: people at Microsoft got in touch with him again. The same thing happened with code contributed by several other companies:
This is Microsoft (and other companies) learning how to deal with kernel development. Greg K-H has a good attitude about it, so let's not build a mountain out of this. Perhaps Microsoft will do better next time.
Not everything and everyone associated with Microsoft deserves abuse and scorn. Save it for their next DRM initiative or something.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
When I can get clueless geeks to work for free why would I spend my company's resources on it?
If it has happened, please oh please post the link!
It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
Ok, honestly, when VMWare released GPLed drivers LOOOOOOOOONG ago, how many blogs did we have talking about how VMWare is contributing code to Linux, and how many people needed to state that those were simply self-serving drivers for VMWare? Nooone... These are self-serving, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it, they wanted their virtualization stuff to be able to run GNU/Linux, and they released drivers. It is not an 'evil' move but simply a logical one. But for sure it is not a 'contribution' to Linux. It is nothing out of the ordinary and honestly, I am tired of having to read countless of stories about...
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
When it comes to Apple, you suddenly start hearing sentiments such as "closed environment is a good thing for the users because it Just Works" and "it works so well because they won't let you touch it with your dirty hands" from the very same people who are bitching about Windows kernel not being GPL'd five minutes ago.
My theory is that, so long as an OS has bash/sed/grep/awk and properly-working Flash and no-headache audio and video, no-one cares about the license anymore.
All your posts have been so far have all been complaining about how everyone around here thinks Microsoft is evil, and how the group mindthink is fucking you over. No wonder you got modded down.
Get over yourself... nobody here cares what you think. This isn't the propaganda arm of MS so if people say things that you see as "anti-Microsoft" it is probably because is is true. Certainly a site that is a "Source for technology related news with a heavy slant towards Linux and Open Source issues." clearly identifies itself and needs to be read with a bit of scepticism-even if a significant number of those you see as "anti-Microsoft" are right most of the time. I don't see BestBuy, Staples, PC World, or any other "MS Windows" propaganda arm identifying itself so blatantly as Microsoft for the good of the people.
Thank them for what? MS's contributed drivers are useless to anyone who isn't running MS's own hypervisor and Linux underneath (i.e., MS's customers). They didn't donate this code out of any altruism, only pure self-interest.
Yeah, and they only decide to "donate" this code after it was pointed out to them that keeping the code private was a violation of the GPL, since it's clearly a derivative work of the Linux kernel.
So what do they do? Instead of GPL'ing it and working to maintain and clean up the code themselves, they just dump it on the kernel maintainers. Lame.
In my mind, it shows that Microsoft still doesn't take Linux seriously on some level. They don't bother to build a useful working relationship with the kernel devs because they see this as a one-off interaction just to "get Linux working with Windows."
Contrast this with, say, Intel or AMD or Realtek or IBM or pretty much any hardware company. Of course, contributing to the Linux kernel is a matter of "pure self-interest" for those companies too: they want to make their Linux-using customers to buy and happily use their hardware. But those companies learn to work with the mainstream kernel development process, because they see a long-term interest in a good relationship with the community of Linux developers and users.
My bicyles
Kind of funny how today there was that other announcement here about Microsoft sponsoring CodePlex foundation to help bridge the gap between commercial developers and open source projects, which kind of seems to be what they should have done a bit more here right.
What is worse, some people can have temper tantrums, promote insance conspiracy theories, call others who disagree with them corrupt, brainwashed cowards, and get modded up. Uncivilized discussion should never be tolerated in a civilized world. When I go crazy, I expect to be modded down. I hope I never write anything as hypocritical as the parent. I also have mode points, almost always, and my karma is high. However, as the faq says, karma is not dick or teat size. Abusing the karma, or treating it as something real, is pretty pathetic. Saying the no one can hurt you because your karma is so high is not dissimilar to a person who goes on a murder spree because they feel they cannot be caught.
To the matter at hand, no one knows why MS is all of the sudden being so nice, but there is evidence it is not completely benign. They probably have violated GPL and similar licenses in the past, and some of the donations may have been settlements for those illegal activities. The courts are pretty convinced that MS destroyed the i4i bussiness, and it is only the massive number of MS lawyers that keep MS Word on the market. MS is not apologetic about this piracy, and claim that since the business is already destroyed, why should there be any damages? Then there is the matter of the patents that MS tried to sell on the idea that the price could be recouped by suing OSS providers. In all, there is no evidence that the MS tactics of sneak attacks and massive budgets for lawyers has changed.
It is easy for the young people to just use the OSS without realizing that it is a right that many had to work for. MS helped in this fight, by giving software away, but then kind of lost the faith by writing whiny letter, not unlike the parent, and randomly asserting copyrights as it needed extra cash. But know the kids have OSS, and are willing to take it for granted. Just like women who can now work, vote, and wear pants. Or non-whites who have equal rights and justice. Or kids who get a minimum wage and have some assurance of actually receiving the money.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
By default, _really_ heavily downmodded posts are not viewable to users who aren't logged in. If you log in, you can set your view preferences to allow them to be seen.
Somebody call the wambulance please.
That's weird - I have mod points, and your comment is both overrated (5-insightful) and off-topic (as you pointed out).
Damn! I've posted, now I can't mod it. Oh well - I'll go mod some of your posts in another thread...
This one is underrated and hilarious. I'll start there.
You think this constitutes "publicly flame"ing Microsoft? He's just asking them to step it up and contribute. He's much harder on others in that list. It also doesn't seem like he went out of his way to be interviewed. It sounds like he just responded to a few questions that a reporter put to him. "Unfortunately" and "so sad" do not, of themselves, constitute a flame.
Here are a few other choice passages: (these may be interpreted as weak flames)
heci A wonderful example of a company throwing code over the wall, watching it get rejected, and then running away as fast as possible, all the while yelling over their shoulder, "it's required on all new systems, you will love it!" We don't, it sucks, either fix it up, or I am removing it.
me4000 and meilhaus They work on the same hardware, and they duplicate the existing COMEDI drivers. Someone thinks that custom userspace interfaces are fun and required. Turns out that being special and unique is not what to do here, use the COMEDI drivers instead. These will be removed. Heck, I'll go remove them for .32, there is no reason these should still be around, except to watch the RT guys squirm as they try to figure out the byzantine locking and build logic here (which certainly does count for something, cheap entertainment is always good.)
rspiusb A weird, very expensive camera, from a company that does not want to release the specs, and wants custom userspace interfaces. The code hasn't built since the 2.6.20 days. I'll go delete it now from .32, it doesn't deserve to live as no one cares about it, least of all, the original authors of the code :(
In other words: "Though it seems that he has the generosity to not publicly flame them unlike Microsoft." is pure hogwash... on both counts.
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
It's still in "staging". from the article:
Here's a summary of the state of the drivers/staging/ tree, basically what will be coming in the 2.6.32 merge, and what the status of the different drivers are so far.
First off, drivers/staging/ is NOT a dumping ground for dead code. If no one steps up to maintain and work to get the code merged into the main portion of the kernel, the drivers will be removed.
Further examples:
asus_oled This only needs minor cleanups to get merged properly into the main tree. If someone wants an easy project, this would be it.
phison What? I thought I asked for this to be merged a while ago, sorry about that, no reason it should still be in staging anymore, it's just so small it slipped through the cracks...
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
Yes, but is bash nearly so friendly without the @#$% "home" and "end" keys! (Thank you Apple for hampering an otherwise useful tool.)
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
"If you're here to build me a bridge, then tell me so and build it. If you're here to bring me a stone, then don't tell me you're here to build me a bridge."
Except they're here to teach you to fish, not to become your unpaid fishermen/code slaves for the rest of eternity.
I actually expect that this was an intern project for one or more interns (intern season just ended), and that there was never any expectation that the people who did the work would be around to maintain it. It was in fact a very large move for Microsoft to release this code at all, and it probably took a lot of begging internally to get management to agree to that much concession. Then they went above and beyond, and released the code patches under the GPL, which meets their requirements under the GPL to donate the code back to the Linux project. You seem to expect them to stick around and maintain that code in perpetuity, which wasn't the contract, and wasn't the license. So you're complaining and threatening to remove the drivers in the next release unless they commit resources in perpetuity to maintaing the drivers vs. *your* code base.
This is really a stupid demand on your part;if the kernel level APIs (what Sun calls their DDI/DKI - Device Driver Interface/Device Kernel Interface) in Linux were stable and not such a moving target, you could just forget the drivers and they'd keep working indefinitely.
As one of the people who struggles internally in a company to keep certain sources out there and available for anyone who wants them, IMO it's really ungrateful of you to look the gift horse in the mouth and demand more just because you can't maintain stable APIs.
-- Terry
"We are sorry, but your Linux system has crashed. The Microsoft Code that enables this feature is fully activated, but has not been updated. Please log on to the Microsoft Update site to get a new version of this exact same code. Now you may reboot your computer and come back later to this screen."
People don't have to be under mind control in order to think that Microsoft is evil. They might have enough work experience to know that Microsoft, Adobe, Autodesk and Corel don't care about end customer and care only about own profits and suppressing opposition. Such corporate behavior fits definition of evil in human world.
http://xkcd.com/631/
Yet no one offers any evidence to the contrary. You guys are awesome. Get what you want, you whine about it. Someone does the same shit you do, you whine about it and act like its a bad thing.
Gee ... I wonder why so many businesses avoid this particular group of people ...
You know, when you had no friends when you were younger ... ever thing maybe there was a reason for it. Theres a reason no one likes you.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Good job, you proved his point to the letter with your post and your modding.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
You mean for him or for the douche bag complaining about the quality of the kernel drivers? Its difficult for me to determine whos whining you're referring to.
I have to assume you're referring to the person you are replying to, but to most sane rational people, it would seem that the original article is more whiney than this guys post. Looks like you just proved his point for him.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
"Their code needed lots of work to get to normal Linux coding style acceptance, that's nothing new. It did take over 200 patches to get their code into reasonable shape, which is a bit excessive," he said. Microsoft did not contribute to the patching effort.
Normal Linux coding style:
10 START
20 GET JOB DONE
30 STOP
Microsoft coding style: .. .. ..
10 START
11 IF $OS=Vista, Sleep 10
12 IF $OS=XP, Sleep 5
13 IF $OS=Windows 7, Sleep 2
14 IF $Customer_Uses_Linux=true, Sleep 100
20 GET JOB DONE
21 IF $OS=Windows, STOP
22 IF $Customer_uses_Linux=true, CRASH
30 Profit
The same pattern repeated hundreds of times in all code. It takes a lot of effort to cleanup to Linux standards, no wonder!
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
It must be a new experience for the mircosoft developers to be asked to actually deliver good quality code that will interact well with other companies code. It can turn out to be a good learning experience for the code monkey working for the evil empire.
No, they were violating the GPL.
They had to at least give source to their customers.
Rather than to continue to do that they made this driver the kernel maintainers problem. If they don't want to help maintain it, I say drop it from the kernel.
It was a twofer. MS weaseled out of punishment for license violation ( GPL ) and at the same time just shat in the kernel maintainers' collective pocket.
Denial of Service attacks work in meatspace, too. The maintainers have no obligation to burn up hours coding and supporting someone else's abandonware.
For that matter, so do injection attacks. For example, find out who gave the order to install any given Windows server, assuming you can still find one these days. No one will 'fess up.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
From the blog,
"hv (Microsoft Hyper-V) drivers. Over 200 patches make up the massive cleanup effort needed to just get this code into a semi-sane kernel coding style (someone owes me a bit bottle of rum for that work!) Unfortunately the Microsoft developers seem to have disappeared, and no one is answering my emails. If they do not show back up to claim this driver soon, it will be removed in the 2.6.33 release. So sad..."
I'm not shocked. M$ reputation is so bad that this kind of behavior is not a surprise.
Was is a bit of a shock is that GKH actually wasted one minute longer than rejecting the fake drivers with a missive to "hold off on re-submission of the code until it actually works" What happened to the idea of showing something that works? There used to be pretty strict guidelines about coding style and what is and isn't acceptable, including having some working code first.
Anyway, what are these so-called developers from M$ off doing while the Linux team is cleaning up from this hit and run?
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
You seem like one paranoid individual.
This is just a part of the process of open source coders that are builing up a thick skin. You better do NOT thank him. you either contribute, or STFU. giving him thanks makes him more sensitive, and will be harde hit by the next attack to some of hiss code.
Just give him his bottle of rum..
"(someone owes me a bit bottle of rum for that work!) "
Yet no one offers any evidence to the contrary.
If he'd actually made any points that could be disputed you might have a point. Random, incoherent flaming is always going to get modded down. Why is that a surpise?
Get over yourself... nobody here cares what you think.
I submit the GP's moderation, and my aforementioned karma, as evidence to the contrary. ;)
You're right about one thing; my freaks list genuinely is rather extensive. However, I view it more or less as a roll call of Stallman's footsoldiers here on Slashdot. They know exactly who they are.
Predictably, you got modded Offtopic.
Thank you for this, however. :)
Donated is a very poor choice of words. The Linux Kernel Organization is a California Public Benefit Corporation established 2002 to distribute the Linux kernel and other Open Source software to the public without charge.
http://www.kernel.org/nonprofit.html
The fsf is a charity.
The Linux kernel project is part of a non-profit organisation. It is not a charity.
Microsoft are not contributing the tiny piece of (Very poor quality and not good enough to make it past the staging area) Driver code to the Linux kernel because they want to. They are doing it because the have to. They violated the gpl.
Just curious, will anyone ever be able to do enough to get the GPL fanboys to stop their fucking whining?
Truthfully, they only really got bad after 2005. Before that point, the FSF was gradually sliding towards irrelevance; but unfortunately, Microsoft had to go and start the DRM flap. Because of that, Stallman was able to reinvent himself and change focus to real-world activism, (since actual code development of the GNU Project had been taken over by either Red Hat or Debian a few years earlier) and the cult came back.
These days, the slide back towards irrelevance has resumed, but they're resisting it every step of the way. They have a #gnu_generation channel on FreeNode which targets teenagers, (interesting when you consider that one of the key allegations levelled against Microsoft by the FSF on the Windows7Sins site is poisoning education) and there are reasonably regular reports of them taking on (and brainwashing) new interns as well.
Then there's the ever-present Trotskyite Debian cheerleading squad, as well. Because Ubuntu is Debian-based, and the Debian crowd are as heavily Stallmanite (and Communist) as they are, the cult is managing to skim off a steady trickle of the Windows refugees who are adopting Ubuntu.
Eventually the FSF are going to hang themselves. The Windows7Sins campaign doesn't look like anything other than a byproduct of toxic, crippling autism; it is pure preaching to the choir, and won't be earning them any credibility points at all with the general public.
The literature of cults provides very few examples of a cult outliving its' founder, as well. Stallman could hypothetically be around for as long as another 35 years yet; but it is unlikely that he could remain active as its' leader for all of that time. I could see Kuhn definitely becoming the FSF's David Miscavige, although that will probably depend on how old he is when the time comes.
Either way, they won't last forever; but the real issue, as you've pointed out, is how much damage they stand to do to Linux's reputation in the meantime. Linux is already largely recognised as being synonymous both with Stallman and with cultic radicalism by the online trade press. Red Hat might be doing well enough in the enterprise, but the non-profit community are generally regarded as hard leftist, extremist loons, and all too often with good reason, tragically. You'll never see a single article from the online trade press which dissents from the FSF party line, where the author isn't subjected to the most foul, blistering forms of abuse in the comments/talkback sections, if they have one.
Another recent issue of some concern is the "Linux Youth," phenomenon that has begun to be observed among Ubuntu users. These are generally teenagers, and are usually both fanatically pro-Ubuntu and pro-Stallman. They may be a product of the "GNU Generation," initiative, or they may simply be developing due to Ubuntu's aforementioned association with Debian. Either way, it is troubling, if only because it demonstrates the FSF's ability to gain new victims/footsoldiers from diverse sources.
No it's overrated. Clear partisan hackery is rarely broadly funny. It's only funny to narrow-minded people that like a "us-versus-them" mindset codified in text.
I'm also noticing that everyone who says the right things, about how evil Microsoft are, and about how perfectly just the community response is, predictably gets modded Insightful, as well.
I've noticed just the oppostie. I have also noticed that you post is modded fairly high.
Ten years ago, slashdot was pro-linux, not so much anymore. It seems to me that, a few years back, msft learned to start flooding the board with their "technology evangelists." And that is not some mad conspiracy theory - msft has been caught doing just that.
With typical msft hypocrisy, the shills bitch about linux advocates, while msft is known to pay posters.
I swear you open source people whine so much.
Microsoft gave us all these drivers....waaaaahhh!! Now we have to do work...waaaaahhh!!!
Sew it up!
Doesn't mean they can't be sued for previous breech of copyright.
Linux: Here's some code, have fun with it.
MS: Ah OK, so we need to do this to make Hyper-V work
Linux: Um, you're violating a license
MS: Go away, we just want to make our stuff work
Linux: Source code or (court case + source code)?
MS: Oh fine, here you go
Linux: Thanks. It's not good enough.
MS: What? What are they talking about now?
Linux: Not good enough, we fixed it for you.
MS: Invalidating our test cases and documentation...
Linux: So, when are you going to maintain this pile?
MS: You took our code, changed it, and now expect *US* to troubleshoot and fix issues that people who aren't our customers find?
Linux: Uhm, yeah, or we'll call you out on a blog.
MS: FUCK YOU PEOPLE SIDEWAYS! NO ONE ANSWER THE PHONE!!! NO E_MAILS!!! NOTHING!!! THEY'LL GET NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!
Possibly the most inaccurate summary of the circumstances that I have yet seen in this discussion. Kudos for shooting for the stars!
God is imaginary
And you've posted 9 comments in this thread yourself, whining about the "GPL fanboys". Pot, Kettle, you know the rest.
God is imaginary
Why are we even surprised Microsoft is only half-assing their GPL'd virtualization drivers for Linux?
After all, the ONLY reason we got them opened in the first place was someone busted them for violating the GPL in the first place, and they were never interested in releasing real FOSS anything in the first place. How they got the OSI approval for one of their licenses is a mystery to me. I would have rejected it outright simply on grounds of principle. Here we have a company that has internally and publicly declared FOSS its enemy, after all.
Thus, I don't feel warm fuzzies when Microsoft does stuff like release GPL drivers, establish an "open" source license, supports projects like Mono or Moonlight, or opens sites like CodePlex. Their history is enough, in fact, for me to stand back and look for the ulterior motive and wonder when Microsoft is going to pull the rug out from under and screw those gullible folks who actually think Microsoft turned over a new leaf purely for the reasons stated above. I'm too familiar with their history for me to think they've actually changed, especially when their faux-friendly behavior towards FOSS doesn't look like a change from any other case of EEE or "partner and screw," two of Microsoft's favorite tactics.
I am beginning to think that maybe Darl McBride was attacked viciously by a penguin as a child.
That may be true, but don't even get me started about how much those Linux kernel developers are slacking off when it comes to developing for Windows.
By the way, there are some hardware companies that merely publish hardware details and let the Linux community write drivers from scratch. At least Microsoft provided some code to start with.
Which is why it works :)
One of the arguments I make to promote GPL is that it is entirely selfish and meritocratic. It is economically inefficient for a person to produce a product that is not useful to the producer. For example, it is useful for doctors to know medicine whether or not they practice. Same is true of plumbers, carpenters, farmers, etc. It also applies to engineers, software or otherwise. Microsoft "produces" a product for the purpose of selling it. They must make the product something people want, or think they want (Oversimplified I know, but still true). By contrast, people producing GPL work are initially producing something strictly for themselves. With information distribution having reached a cost of effectively zero, and development cost covered (because the intent of the product was the product), all that can happen by releasing the code (assuming it is a tool and not a trade secret) is that other people will selfishly take the code, rather than reinvent the wheel, and change or improve the product for THEIR own purpose. From there, a somewhat natural evolution occurs; the software replicates as people find it useful, and it mutates as people find it worth their time to take what exists and improve it for their own purpose, and hopefully re-releasing it back into the wild.
So I think this whole argument is totally obnoxious. Whatever Microsoft's motivation for the release of their code may be, all you have is more information available for which anybody may do with as they please. I may be inclined to assume that Microsoft has put in the minimal effort to tease the community with information that could be useful in producing a useful product, and whether or not it is controversial to put in the effort to make the information useful to them doesn't take away from the fact that Microsoft has done NOTHING (this time) to harm the community. An ability or inability to rationalize a decision must be the sole responsibility of the person making that decision.
If Microsoft is trying to bait the community into doing work for them, who cares. It is either worth it, or isn't. Microsoft's hope is that they can get SOMEONE do do the rest of the work. It is a calculated risk. As far as the community goes, I see no hostility in informing Microsoft that their half-ass contribution isn't worth the effort of implementing, if that be the case, and Microsoft can recalculate their move.
The code isn't going to be deleted, it will either be commented out, or stored elsewhere and a line item added to a TO-DO list somewhere. This happens all the time. Last Ubuntu release (9.04) I put the majority of my time into two projects. Upon review for implementation, one was accepted and merged. The other, despite the fact I had managed to close out almost a dozen bug reports, was implemented incorrectly (for the sake of argument), and rejected. The days of work were not recoverable and basically wasted. Nobody picked up where I had left off, including myself. Those bugs are still open. It is just how things work. I wasn't offended, nor do I think the maintainer was rude for not accepting the work as is. I learned a lot from the experience and I still use my own version of the package.
The only thing notable this time is that the 'contribution' was made by Microsoft. If some sloppy hacker pieced this together by way of reverse engineering, threw it out there and walked away, who knows what would happen to the code. It might rouse some discussion on the mailing list with comments like "wow cool, but wtf? Anyone want to tackle this s***?" for awhile, but it certainly wouldn't make headline news, because in my observation, that is just another day in the life.
Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
I can't help but contrast this with the kernel driver project's message, where they call for open HW specifications so they can maintain code for them.
I realize that contributing specs isn't the same as contributing shabby code, but save for that difference, it almost seems like a contradictory message:
* on one hand it's ok for hardware companies to just drop specs and leave it to the community to code and maintain drivers
* on the other, it's not ok if Microsoft drops code and then doesn't maintain it.
It would seem as though no one wants to maintain Microsoft code. If that was so, I wonder how much of it is due to community bias against MS, and how much because of a lack of community interest. Also, no use cases maybe?
I am going to have to agree with the people that modded this troll, though personally, I think it is more like flame. You say that MS donated this code out of pure self interest as if it is different from any one else's contribution. Take the Wacom Driver project for example. Wacom only writes drivers for platforms they can "profit" from which they have determined are Windows and MacOSX. The Wacom Project Team has selfishly determined that isn't good enough for them AND that they have the necessary skill to remedy the situation. Why would a person who is greedy and selfish go out of their way to be inefficient and non-pragmatic about their approach? If what they desire is a driver, their greedy selfish desires are better met as an open source community project. The more people like them that want that driver sooner than later will selfishly commit resources towards improving the project. But keep in mind that their purpose is the driver. If they were producing the driver for money to sell to people that want support, it might make sense to keep it closed source and simply hire as many people necessary to slap together something together that looks good enough that will get people to buy it and sell updates as they implement new features to the best of their ability with the hope that nobody trys to compete against them. One thing I think may be different if such a company existed is that you would see drivers for more than just Wacom tablets, doesn't matter to them that people are buying inferior tablets.
:)
To my understanding, one of the reasons why there is no support for any other tablet is that it would run their resources thin. They selfishly believe Wacom makes the best tablets despite the fact that there are likely a lot of people out there that can't afford the most expensive brand. So for now there is just one driver. So what? If it is worth it to someone to develop drivers for other brands, then it will happen, but I expect that for most people the difference in cost of the tablets does not justify the cost of development. (Oooh, those greedy developers!)
Just like any other code contribution, which is nothing more than information, people may or may not choose to review it, may or may not choose to fix it, may or may not choose to implement it, may or may not choose to maintain it, may or may not choose to extend it. That could be 1 person, a hundred people, or nobody. What you are doing is passing judgment on how other people should feels about it and calling for censorship, as if you need to protect people from how they choose to spend their time.
How altruistic of you.
Sorry, but I put your comments in the same category as the complainers on brainstorm.ubuntu.com that DEMAND (often in quite colorful language) their ideas that are highly rated by other non-programs be implemented by the development team. There have even been "resolutions" passed giving timelines in which developers must respond to their inquiries. WTF? These people obviously don't have the first clue about how people become "Official Ubuntu Developers", let alone how the dev process works. Personally, I might like to call Project Brainstorm a total flop and just get rid of it. On the other hand, evidently some people like it, sometimes devs respond. I'll just try to convince myself that it is a conspiracy to keep idiots off of launchpad. What I can do about this 'issue' is reserve the right not to go there.
As a side note, I guess, take a look at the number of open bugs with patches over a year old that nobody has bothered to take the few moments necessary to test and confirm so that it can be implemented. It is astounding! But somehow there is still rapid progress.
Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
I found it funny, and I could never be called narrow-minded; not by anyone who knows me anyway.
On the other hand, it's not "broadly" funny, I suppose.
There are large numbers on the so called "christian-right" though, who deserve to be the target of such comments. I'm talking about the biggoted zealots. Those who expect the world to end within the decade, and therefore care more about converting and correcting those around them than helping society make progress.
Correct; these drivers were not originally built according to the kernel coding standards. At the time that was not a requirement.
The incredibly cool thing is that kernel community developers submitted over 200 patches to the code. The team (Hank Janssen, Haiyang Zhang, and Hashir Abdi and a small test team) have spent their time integrating and testing the results to ensure that there were no regressions. As an example, the team spent roughly three weeks tracking down a crashing issue in the kernel that turned out to be fixed in the 2.6.31-rc8 release. For a first release and integration with the kernel I am happy with the results, and appreciate the work that Greg KH has put in to accept the changes and educate us on both process and coding style.
With the regressions resolved and testing complete from this initial integration phase, the team is back to dealing with net new issues as well as adding features according to the customer roadmap. One of the top requests we've had is to add SMP (symmetric multiprocessing) support, so that is on the immediate term development list. This is a dedicated, long-term team that is still learning the cadence of kernel development and communication.
Cheers,
Sam
sramji@microsoft.com
You're just another paid FSF shill. How much is Stallman giving you for your FUD?