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New 2D, HD Sonic Game Coming In 2010

Anonymouse writes "Sonic the Hedgehog is going back to his roots, but with a fresh coat of HD paint. 'An all-new 2D side-scrolling High Definition Sonic game is coming with a 2010 release date, according to a new teaser trailer from Sega.' Sega's Ken Ballough had this to say: 'Old-school Sonic fans have long asked to see Sonic return to a more 2D style of gameplay. Many liked the daytime stages in Unleashed but wanted to see a game that plays purely similar to the early games of the Genesis. Project Needlemouse is that critical first step that brings Sonic back to his 2D roots.'"

123 comments

  1. Let me guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $60 for a 2d sidescroller that lasts all 12 or less hours, because its "Sonic"

    1. Re:Let me guess by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Most of the 2D Xbox live/PSN HD remake games have been about $9.99-$19.99 which is fairly reasonable.

      If this came out for PC I would be happy.

    2. Re:Let me guess by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      12 hours? I recall them talking about 3 hours with Unleashed which is why they added those werehog filler levels.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    3. Re:Let me guess by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      We can't be sure this'll be a downloadable game.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    4. Re:Let me guess by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 3, Insightful

      $60 for a good game. Who cares if it's 2D or 3D? Or if it takes 12 hours or 120 hours?

      If your definition of a good game is being 3D and taking forever to complete, then I have a copy of Superman 64 I'd like to sell you.

    5. Re:Let me guess by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

      How to they measure these magic "hours" that all game reviews talk about? What is the definition?

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      My other account has a 3-digit UID.
    6. Re:Let me guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I think they use a clock or maybe a watch. An hour is a unit of measurement of time it's 3600 seconds last time I looked.

    7. Re:Let me guess by oracle_of_power · · Score: 1

      I agree. If we used the current high end 3D games that require the most advanced graphics cards and systems then the simple games found at PopCap and other places would not be so damn popular and addictive. A good game is a good game.

      --
      Arctic Turtle
    8. Re:Let me guess by Segisaurus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think its an average calculation based on the beta testers.

      Personally when playing a 40 hour RPG it usually becomes a 100+ game as I am one of those people that has to get 100% completion. But i know people who just rush through and beat the 40 hour game in 6-10.

      But platformers, even if I'm going slow are usually no more than 6 hours. This game better be $20 or less with good replay value. I replayed Sonic 1,2,3 and S&K hundreds of times. But I know replay value is not big on programmers minds anymore.

    9. Re:Let me guess by Applekid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The real issue is that there hasn't been a good SONIC game for over a decade. And by that it isn't allegiance to the character but the playstyle: large 2D maps with many many routes that are more fun to play when going fast but proportionately more perilous.

      Let's face it, transitioning a classic non-RPG game to 3D requires supporting game mechanics to change dramatically. Compare games that jumped between 2D and 3D: Ninja Gaiden, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Prince of Persia. All of them keep familiar elements to continue to feel like part of the franchise (which I'd argue is a bad and constraining thing) but ultimately require more subdued game play due to complexity. If you deny that they require a different way to think about games, look at Lemmings 3D, Blaster Master Blasting Again, or every Sonic game after Sonic 3D Blast, inclusively. It's more than just adding a Z axis.

      Sonic to date has been about playing to furry fantasies and adding characters taking a cue from Sanrio's Hello Kitty to give it some faux richness and complexity and moving to 3D just to compete in the screenshot arena when the game is not ready for it and really is just about going fast and smashing up creative mechanical bosses.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    10. Re:Let me guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $60 for a good game. Who cares if it's 2D or 3D? Or if it takes 12 hours or 120 hours?

      Thats a stupid thing to say. I think a lot of people care if a $60 game is 12 hours or 120 hours! There is no way I can justify spending $60 on a game that I will beat in just 12 hours. But if it takes 120 hours to beat and is a good game? I would gladly buy it! As it is, I don't buy many games.

    11. Re:Let me guess by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      I still prefer Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games in 2D (and Castlevania while we're at it).

      For a good look at a modern 2D platformer running on a 3D engine to good effect, see Prinny: Can I Really Be the Hero? on the PSP. It's also a good example for replayability, appropriate difficulty levels, and length.

      I would probably buy this Sonic game as long as it turns out to be what they're promising, rather than just another crappy post-Genesis Sonic game. The 3D games have not been able to capture anything that made the original enjoyable and distinct from its peers.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    12. Re:Let me guess by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 2, Informative

      I could beat the original Super Mario Bros. in about 30 minutes, while others can apparently do it in about 5 minutes. I'd still buy a good remake or reworking of the game for $40-50 (ie New Super Mario Bros. on the Wii), because I still enjoyed the game after beating it several times.

      That being said, I don't take much risk when it comes to games at $60. $50 is pretty much the upper limit of my willingness to assume any level of risk,and even then it's stretching things, since I can usually find games I know I'll enjoy cheaper than that.

      The time I would like a game to take to complete depends entirely on the game, though. Platformers and side-scrolling (or top-down) shooters I can usually accept at a pretty low play time because they're often repayable and entertaining (both of which have been noticeably absent from their 3D brethren). That being said, I expect the developers to spend the time they otherwise would have spent on content development tweaking the gameplay. If they crank out the content and dump the game on the masses and it has no polish, it deserves to be in the bargain bin with the rest of the $5-20 games, or sitting on the download services.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    13. Re:Let me guess by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Lasting 12 hours and taking 12 hours to complete are not the same thing. I've played lots of flash games that I'd consider to be good, but which I've completed in under half an hour and which don't have much replay value. I would consider a game like that to be worth less than a game which is as enjoyable while I play it, but which remains that enjoyable for 12 hours.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    14. Re:Let me guess by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      The time to consider shouldn't be the time to beat but the time to disinterest. If you lose interest exactly at the credits, well, that's fine but I found that usually the interest had a different length than the game itself.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    15. Re:Let me guess by webheaded · · Score: 1

      Actually there have been good Sonic games, just not on the consoles. Not sure if people aren't aware, aren't counting the DS, or forgot, but yeah. The Sonic Rush games on the DS are everything I wanted from Sonic and I was quite happy with them.

      Just thought that warranted pointing out. Seems a bit dismissive to say there haven't been ANY good Sonic games. If you're talking about the console versions, just say so. :p

      --
      "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BenF
    16. Re:Let me guess by BenoitRen · · Score: 1

      If you didn't like even one of the 3D Sonic games, then the problem is not with Sonic; it's with you. You're hard to please and won't take anything else than the exact 2D gameplay of the early 90s.

  2. About time! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    About time Sonic came to Linux!

    1. Re:About time! by TheGreenNuke · · Score: 4, Funny

      Screw Linux, I just want Sonic to open up a Drive-in in the North East close to where I live. I'm sick of seeing their ads with no Sonic within 60 miles, and then its only one, next closest is over 100 miles away, in a different direction.

    2. Re:About time! by ryanov · · Score: 1

      They opened two in my area... that appears to be their plan: show the ads for years with no Sonic, open a drive in, and then wait while the drones turn up and actually disrupt highway traffic waiting on lines for this shit. There is an actual police presence at both Sonics near me, and I believe someone rammed a police officer for telling him he could not come in.

      Even after they open one near you, be prepared to stay FAR away from it for awhile. Ours have been here more than 6 months and it's still a scene every time I've been past them.

    3. Re:About time! by McGuirk · · Score: 1

      Really? I'm from Texas, and Sonics around here are not particularly amazing. The food's is overly greasy and not very flavorful, even compared to McDonald's or Burger King. Likewise, they're also famous for screwing up orders, even very simple stuff. Maybe it's just that the franchisee running the Sonics in the area is bad at his job...

    4. Re:About time! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trick is to walk to it. Then you can enjoy your meal while laughing at the absurdly long line of cars at the drive-through.

  3. Finally... by Neffirithion · · Score: 1

    A chance at a _good_ sonic game since the genesis.

    1. Re:Finally... by Dyinobal · · Score: 1

      I rather enjoyed Sonic Adventure 2 on the game cube.

    2. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This gives me the opportunity to ask about something that I've always had trouble finding info about... cart pulls.

      A cart pull is when you yank one cartridge out, put another one in, and hit reset, based on the fact that the Genesis does not wipe RAM when you hit reset, and some games did not initialize all variables properly. This aspect is well-known in that Sonic 1 lets you get the first chaos emerald, hit reset, play from the beginning of the game until getting a chaos emerald (which will be the second), hit reset, repeat until you have all the emeralds, then play the game straight through without worrying about the special stages (or using level select to jump to scrap brain and just playing the end of the game).

      I read about cart pulls in some gamer magazines back in the 90s. The only problem is I've found almost no references to the subject on the Internet, leading me to believe it could have been just a well-organized April Fools joke by several magazines. However, the sources I have found on the Internet have all looked legit, even giving a few examples...

      Any Genesis history buffs care to answer this for me?

    3. Re:Finally... by nkh · · Score: 1

      GameCube or Dreamcast? I loved the Dreamcast version (the 1st one was bad) but the only Sonic game I player on the Cube was... weird.

    4. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I rather enjoyed Sonic - The Dark Brotherhood on the DS.

    5. Re:Finally... by Z80a · · Score: 3, Informative

      something like this?

      http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=38&title=Cart-Swapping%20Tricks:%20Cheating%20at%20Your%20Own%20Risk

      i seen they do that trick with rambo III once, but never performed it myself.

    6. Re:Finally... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      You make it sound like they haven't made 2D Sonic games since then. There's 3 GBA ones and two DS games. The level design in the GBA ones was arse (hey, let's end a lengthy run sequence right on top of a set of spikes that pop up you can only know about with trial and error!), the DS versions were hit and miss (some good stages, some bad ones) though the second DS game was grindy (had to repeatedly play stages to get the parts you needed to reach the next level) from what I heard. Sure, none of them were made by Sonic Team itself but by the way it looks like the developer on these (Dimps) is more skilled than Sonic Team itself anyway.

      In short, expect a 2D Sonic engine with level design that would shame a ROM hack.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    7. Re:Finally... by maudface · · Score: 1

      I discovered this with sonic 1, though couldn't care less as the game wasn't actually all that difficult to beat properly without cheating.

      What I found rather interesting was that with the game sonic 3d (and I vaguely recall this working with at least one other cart) if you gave the cartridge a good tab on the front of the game it took one directly to the cheat menu.

      Was this a deliberate thing or just a handy fluke? It was discovered by a friend of mine who gave the console a thump after a fit of rage induced by a rather agrivating volcanic valley boss fight, his anger was promptly defused by the situation!

    8. Re:Finally... by Canazza · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sonic 3D Cheats menu: B,A, Right,Right, A, C, Up, Down Down, A (It spells Barracuda) one of the more memorable cheats :)

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    9. Re:Finally... by AlterRNow · · Score: 1

      Sonic 3D Cheats menu: B,A, Right,Right, A, C, Up, Down Down, A (It spells Barracudda) one of the more memorable cheats :)

      Fixed that for you :)

      --
      The disappearing pencil trick. Let me show you it.
    10. Re:Finally... by Canazza · · Score: 2, Funny

      curse my lakc fo Englihs Spelling

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    11. Re:Finally... by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      GameCube or Dreamcast? I loved the Dreamcast version (the 1st one was bad) but the only Sonic game I player on the Cube was... weird.

      I think that was a joke.

      Sonic Adventure 2 was viewed as less fun than the original by many, and the GameCube's version of 2 suffered poor sales.

      But I could be wrong.

    12. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that was a joke.

      Sonic Adventure 2 was viewed as less fun than the original by many, and the GameCube's version of 2 suffered poor sales.

      But I could be wrong.

      I never understood this. Sonic Adventure 2 was fun and I greatly enjoyed it on the Dreamcast. Did it have its problems? Sure, but it was still an enjoyable game and could show how well a 3D Sonic game could be. It got great reviews on the Dreamcast even! Then comes the Gamecube version with ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANGES to the single player and an added multiplayer. Suddenly "Oh noes, this sucks!" and it gets terrible reviews.

      I'd blame this mostly on the sudden shift in the cynical nature of the media during this time. They pretty much just want to shit on stuff given any oppurtunity. If this was post-Dreamcast Sonic games (counting the SA2 port as a DC game as it is a port) it'd make more sense but why the sudden change of attitude from the Dreamcast version to the Gamecube version in under a year I'll never truely understand.

      Oh well, screw reviewers, I enjoyed the game and that's all that matters.

    13. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that was a joke.

      Sonic Adventure 2 was viewed as less fun than the original by many, and the GameCube's version of 2 suffered poor sales.

      But I could be wrong.

      Poor sales? Yep, you're wrong.

    14. Re:Finally... by Applekid · · Score: 1

      My favorite part of Reset not clearing variables is in X-Men. The game actually required you to press RESET on the console in order to finish it. Talk about exploiting a quirk and turning it into a unique game enhancement. With console operating systems and system-land and user-land distinctions, those days are gone, man.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    15. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's to do with the cack hardware in the Genesis. If a read fails, an exception is thrown, and the handler is set to show the 'secret level select screen'. To recreate it, as you say, you tap the cartridge a bit. During any of the 3D prerendered graphics scenes is a good time.

      Look up 'secret level select screen' on google. :)

  4. Sonic Cycle by TejWC · · Score: 5, Funny

    Before you get your hopes up, I would like to direct your attention to what is called the Sonic Cycle.

    1. Re:Sonic Cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is almost the same as the Weezer album Cycle. You've run out of chances with me, Rivers Cuomo.

    2. Re:Sonic Cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all aboard the truth train

    3. Re:Sonic Cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about sega trying to make a non-sonic game? Maybe all their Sonic games are flops because there are already like 5 BILLION fucking Sonic games already! SERIOUSLY!

    4. Re:Sonic Cycle by Shikaku · · Score: 2

      See the top of the Sonic Cycle. He gets put in the game along with new friends on step 2.

    5. Re:Sonic Cycle by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I seem to have missed out, as I've not played a Sonic game since the Megadrive. Are the friends really a problem? I always preferred playing as Tails in S2 and Knuckles in S&K.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Sonic Cycle by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      Trust me, the friends are a problem.

      A problem you will want to stab repeatedly.

      Play Sonic Adventure (all parts of it...) and you will understand.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  5. As long as they dont manage to make it suck by HazMat+79 · · Score: 1

    It would be nice to buy a new sonic game that doesn,t suck. Some of the best times I had growing up was playing Sonic and Knuckles with my dad. It would be cool to be able to do that with my children.

    1. Re:As long as they dont manage to make it suck by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Is there anything stopping you from playing S&K with your children on an emulator? I remember doing that ten years ago (one player with the keyboard, the other with a joypad). I vaguely remember having to cat two rom images together to play with Knuckles in other games, simulating the 'lock on' technology it had in the original carts.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  6. Nice! by maroonhat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I always thought Sonic's transition to 3d was much less graceful than say, Mario's. Maybe it was the high speed and the weird feel of the Dreamcast controller that made me feel like I was influencing Sonic's motions, not controlling them.

    --
    The more I learn about Windows the more I am surprised it runs at all
    1. Re:Nice! by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well mario made sense because he was a slower platformer to begin with and even in 2d had a reasonable amount of exploration already built in (mario3).

      Sonic games... if you look at "maps" of the levels, they're ENORMOUS. Doing that in 3d would be almost impossible so they needed to both slow down sonic and find ways to make you feel like you were going faster and farther than you really were. Thus you get lots of grinding and levels that are basically roads floating in the middle of the air. Since Super Sonic basically went even faster still and was invincible except for crushing and falling into pits he had to go out the window too, it'd be impossible to control or map for and remove their carefully planned interruptions.

      Going back to 2d and not on a handheld means there's a chance to get those looooong levels that aren't based on "haha didn't see that coming" tiny screen cheap shots and grinding/rocketing/whatevering level gimmicks back. Along with hopefully the old emerald system.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    2. Re:Nice! by Freaky+Spook · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sonic's transition to 3D was the same as NBA Jam, confusing and everything that was fun about the game got lost in translation.

      It's good to see it going back to 2D, heaps of 2D Xbox live games have proved to be a huge success with a HD touch up, this should be the same.

      Now all we need is them to do NBA Jam TE in HD and I'll be a very happy person.

    3. Re:Nice! by wisty · · Score: 1

      Many games went downhill when they went to 3D. Even HMM (a strategy game) became less playable, because stuff was harder to click on than in iso. People like 3D for the graphics, not for the ability to get lost, for the ability to lose "obvious" items behind ferns, and other annoyances.

      FPS is the exception.

    4. Re:Nice! by SlashdotOgre · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have to agree, although personally I don't think we need to throw 3D all the way out. Something along the lines of what Capcom did with Street Fighter IV would be pretty awesome. I've said it before, and will say it again. I wish these classic series would start sticking to their roots. When will companies realize it's not in their best interest to reinvent the wheel when it comes to classic series? I'm dying for modern remakes of several classic titles (Raiden, Gunstar Heroes, Radiant Silvergun, etc.), and I'm confident that doing them 2D is not only the cheaper approach, but will lead to the superior product.

      --
      Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.
    5. Re:Nice! by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I would like to add Eternal Champions to that list, as well as agree with you completely. Some games just don't translate well to 3D, and Sonic was definitely one of them. I for one would be happy to pay for a new Eternal Champions done in the "new old" Street Fighter style.

      I'd love to rip through some Eternal Champions, Shinobi,Phantasy Star and Strider, and with the larger storage space they could really make for some awesome 2D gaming. Which was what always pissed me off about buying the Sega CD(still have it in the closet somewhere) is instead of using that space to make some truly awesome 2D goodness, like a Phantasy Star that made Generations of Doom look short, they had to ruin the platform by filling with dreck from Digital Pictures like Sewer Chewer...opps I mean Sewer Shark. What a waste of storage space, with video that looked like early 90s porn .WMVs. Bleech.

      --
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    6. Re:Nice! by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I quite enjoyed Gunstar Super Heroes (GBA).

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    7. Re:Nice! by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Actually I really liked Sonic and the secret rings except for the pointless story and music.
      But the gameplay really was the 2d gameplay really well transitioned into the 3d realm. The trick simply was to push Sonic back on rails hence you could get the speed back.

    8. Re:Nice! by sgbett · · Score: 1

      But original sonic was written with emeralds not ruby?

      (sorry)

      --
      Invaders must die
    9. Re:Nice! by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I don't think it is much like the 2D games but it does use the advantage of 3D that you can look ahead and control Sonic at much higher speeds, it's pretty much a redesign into a racing game which IMO was the right direction to take for 3D Sonic.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    10. Re:Nice! by Waccoon · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Sonic Team was showing off too much in Sonic Adventure. You had limited control over the camera, and it would zip around all over the place on its own. An unpredictable camera is horrible, no matter how much work went into the AI to predict what the player wants to see.

      The proper way to use the camera for any high-paced 3D game is a fixed viewpoint, so when controlling the character, you don't fight with the camera. It's not a visibility issue, it's a control issue, so smarter camera AI isn't going to help. The camera needs to be dumber and not move around unexpectedly.

      Of course, that doesn't look as cool, which is why they keep screwing it up. Sticking with 3D graphics is fine for this kind of game, so long as the camera stays in 2D!

    11. Re:Nice! by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      I always thought Sonic's transition to 3d was much less graceful than say, Mario's. Maybe it was the high speed and the weird feel of the Dreamcast controller that made me feel like I was influencing Sonic's motions, not controlling them.

      Sonic was never meant to be 3D. He's hard enough to control in only two dimensions. I could just about handle him on the Genesis but on the Dreamcast? Forget it. Uncontrollable.

      The DS version is where they needed to go. 3D engine locked onto the traditional 2D track. Looked pretty, played well, no 3D track BS. Only problem is that I'm just not very good at it.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    12. Re:Nice! by JTsyo · · Score: 1

      That was what was nice about the Contra series when it came to the PS2. They kept it as a side scroller but just added 3D rendering.

    13. Re:Nice! by zoidran · · Score: 1

      Going back to 2d and not on a handheld means there's a chance to get those looooong levels that aren't based on "haha didn't see that coming" tiny screen cheap shots and grinding/rocketing/whatevering level gimmicks back.

      2D sonic games look(ed) fast because of fast scrolling and nothing more. If you have enough time to see what's coming ahead, this means scrolling isn't that fast, hence the whole game seems comparatively slower (big screen or not, high res or not). YVMV, but I wouldn't expect substantial gameplay improvements on this aspect.

    14. Re:Nice! by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Well I think it is not too different, the 2d games were like run as fast as possible and dont hit the obstacles in the way by jumping.
      Secret rings was, run as fast as it gets and dont hit the obstacles in the way by jumping and getting sideways.
      The reason why it feels like a racing game is, that burnout took a lesson from sonic and sonic in itself is a racing game sort of.
      (well it has very similar mechanics)

      But I think they got the formula defintively right in that game. I still wonder why this game got mediocre scores. I guess nowadays every Sonic game does given the stinker history of the franchies.

    15. Re:Nice! by sesshomaru · · Score: 1

      You know in Japan they did a Shadowrun RPG for the Sega CD. It got bumped in the US, obvioulsy, likely for Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch: Make My Music Video.

      I miss Sega's consoles, but I can't say they didn't deserve their fate.

      --
      "MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
    16. Re:Nice! by lyinhart · · Score: 1

      Sonic's transition to 3D was the same as NBA Jam, confusing and everything that was fun about the game got lost in translation.

      It's good to see it going back to 2D, heaps of 2D Xbox live games have proved to be a huge success with a HD touch up, this should be the same.

      Now all we need is them to do NBA Jam TE in HD and I'll be a very happy person.

      The NBA Jam series did make a successful transition to 3D. While Acclaim acquired the license to the Jam name and released a series of awful 3D titles, Midway released a 2D NBA game (NBA Hangtime) and then a 3D game (NBA Showtime: The NBA on NBC) - both of which preserved the great game mechanics of the original Jam titles.

      As for an HD version of the original Jam games? That would be a fun trick. Developers would have to go through the laborious process of taking new HD photos for the game's "digitized" graphics. And chances are the game would look awful in HD. One reason the original Jam games (and the Mortal Kombat games) looked so good back then was because the graphics were at such a low resolution players couldn't see character graphics clashing with the background and the airbrushing of the photos.

      Of course, they could just release the original game as a downloadable title. Most of the classic games on Xbox Live and the recent Ultimate Genesis collection aren't true HD. They just use an awful looking set of filters to scale the graphics to HD resolutions. And as bad as those filters are, they'd be even worse when scaling photographic graphics like those in the Jam games.

      --
      Freedom is drinking a beer in the park when you're supposed to be at work.
    17. Re:Nice! by drsquare · · Score: 1

      I always thought Sonic's transition to 3d was much less graceful than say, Mario's. Maybe it was the high speed and the weird feel of the Dreamcast controller that made me feel like I was influencing Sonic's motions, not controlling them.

      Or maybe, Nintendo are just much better at making games than Sega.

    18. Re:Nice! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell make it a 3D side scrolling game like New Super Mario. Best of both worlds.

    19. Re:Nice! by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      That is what is truly sad. If you have ever read the history of Sega which I don't know if this link comes to the same conclusions as the one I read, which is sadly no longer available, a lot of what went wrong with Sega was a pissing contest, mixed with a big dose of "not invented here" between Sega USA and Sega Japan.

      Basically Sega Japan treated Sega USA like a redheaded stepchild, and kept them so far in the dark they didn't know WTF was going on. Sega USA didn't know what was coming up, what was being supported, pretty much the poor bastards knew about as much as the average Joe on the street what was going on in Japan. That is how you got the trifecta of clusterfucks, the Sega CD, 32x, and Saturn just bing bang boom. The final (IMHO) nail in the coffin was Sega USA coming up with a kick ass design for the new Dreamcast console with a badass 3DFX GPU, only to have Sega Japan bone them by going with the PowerVR when 3DFX dared to make an announcement. The more powerful 3DFX not only could have kept them in the game, but the name alone (3DFX was the bad boy at the time) would have sold truckloads of consoles. Just stupid.

      Sadly Sega didn't need Sony and Nintendo to fuck them up, they were quite adapt and doing it to themselves. That said I still have my Sega Genesis, Sega CD(one of these days I'll make a cool casemod out of them or something) and Dreamcast, which my boys still use to play Genesis and NES games. The Dreamcast homebrew scene really is top notch. It is a damned shame that Sega had to screw themselves the way they did, but time after time we have seen good companies commit suicide. As much as I am loving the new AMD I built, and my customers are quite happy with them as well, I have to wonder if buying ATI and sticking with desktops while everyone is going mobile will be the final nails in the AMD coffin. Just another example of a company that was on top of the world, only to have mismanagement and blunders bring them to their knees.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    20. Re:Nice! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they really weren't. Sure, that's how they were marketed, and there were fast sections in most levels, but you need to go back and play the games if you think they were purely about speed. They were about flow.

      Marble Zone, Labyrinth Zone, Marble Garden Zone, Lava Reef Zone, Metropolis Zone, Oil Ocean Zone, and too many levels to mention in Sonic CD stick out in my mind as examples of levels that had good flow.

      Sure, there was speed, but it was spaced out with sections which required you to slow down and think about what you were doing. If you observe a novice player, their movement on such stages will be jerky and erratic. To obtain steady speed on such segments requires skill and some memorization. Speed was the reward for playing well.

  7. A list of what not to include by Haoie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    -Every character except Sonic, Tales, and Knuckles
    -Clumsy, overbearing storyline
    -Rail grinding
    -Furries

    --
    If each mistake being made is a new one, then progress is being made.
    1. Re:A list of what not to include by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      -Shadow
      -Silver
      -Archie comic/SatAM characters
      -Chao Garden
      -Car racing

      These are all fan favorites, Sonic fans don't play for the speedy gameplay, they just love the furry matter. Oversaturation of Tails fans is proof of this.

      Even with the '2D roots', it won't satisfy every stupidly bred niche.

    2. Re:A list of what not to include by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Screw what the fans want. Wait, isn't that what they've been doing for the past five years?

      Bring on the old school gameplay! Mm, will he go back to his old Mega Drive appearance?

    3. Re:A list of what not to include by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hope is that it is really hard to screw up a 2d game. If you can screw up something as simple as Direction + Jump + Attack you really have no hope left.

    4. Re:A list of what not to include by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Don't forget Dr Robotnik.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    5. Re:A list of what not to include by Jared555 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you are underestimating the ability of game companies to screw something simple up

    6. Re:A list of what not to include by zoidran · · Score: 1

      Doesn't Tails qualify as a furry?

    7. Re:A list of what not to include by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Oh, it's easy. Spikes up the wazoo. Especially in places where you're moving so fast that you won't see them until you've already got a good internal organ peeling. Maybe if spikes aren't good enough use energy beams that kill you even if you have rings left. Or just the good 'ole bottomless pit right next to the speed rail.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    8. Re:A list of what not to include by PenisLands · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And also voice acting.

    9. Re:A list of what not to include by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Funny

      That sounds like a good idea... they should consult with the Megaman 9 team.

    10. Re:A list of what not to include by stwrtpj · · Score: 1

      Doesn't Tails qualify as a furry?

      He gets a pass because he's one of the original characters. Plus, if they do it like the original games where he tags along with you, you get to have fun watching him blunder into things, get himself "killed", and then helicopter back onscreen by spinning his two tails.

      Ah, the simple pleasures of yesteryear ...

      --
      Karma: Frotzed (mostly due to the Frobozz Magic Karma Company)
    11. Re:A list of what not to include by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      No furries? Who would star in the game, Chris Thorndyke and Princess Elise?

      Hedgehogs are furry (and have actual fur on the belly), foxes and echidnas are too. And lizards, dragons, snakes and birds are included in the furry fandom even if they lack actual fur.

    12. Re:A list of what not to include by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He gets a pass because he's one of the original characters. Plus, if they do it like the original games where he tags along with you, you get to have fun watching him blunder into things, get himself "killed", and then helicopter back onscreen by spinning his two tails.

      I appreciated a character that a 2nd player could play or not play at their discretion. This is great for playing with kids or younger siblings. They let go of the controller for a few seconds or so and the game AI takes over. Then, they can jump in whenever needed or desired.

  8. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    1. Re:Obligatory by religious+freak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hmm, first xkcd roll I've ever seen... it's an xkcdroll troll!

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
  9. From the headline. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hence H = 2.

  10. Yeah, right. by Perseid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is Sega making a Sonic game in the 21st century. You just KNOW they're going to find some way to fuck it up. It's company policy.

  11. OK but where's Yakuza 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    subtitle it, etc. who cares......

    I don't mind the product tie-ins.....

  12. This better be good by Tokerat · · Score: 1

    If they let fans down with this one, it'll be the end of the brand, for sure. Sega cannot afford that. After all the recent letdowns, this looks promising seeing as (they say) they're looking to emulate the "old skool" Sonic feel. Play control is a must, and creativity as well. True to the Sonic Cycle, my hopes are up, but I'm not going to pass solid judgment until I know a lot more.

    --
    CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
  13. It doesn't matter what we want by Mr.P1ckl3s · · Score: 0, Interesting

    http://kotaku.com/5325967/sega-fixing-sonic-is-going-to-take-time idiot children and ignorant parents have long doomed sonic to faggotry.

  14. This isn't going to happen by nyt · · Score: 1, Informative

    from http://www.needlemouse.com/

    You've found our Needlemouse project! Congratulations!

    You may think you're looking at a sample of the upcoming Sega game, which according to recent speculation is called Project Needlemouse. What you've stumbled on is actually a fan-created game that weâ(TM)ve been calling Needlemouse: The Emerald Hills since we began working on it a few months ago.

    oh well.

    1. Re:This isn't going to happen by alienunknown · · Score: 2, Informative
      That site is fake, apparently.

      Yesterday we were all freaking out over the announcement of Project Needlemouse, a codenamed game that promised to be a brand new 2D Sonic the Hedgehog due for release in 2010. Don't worry, the game itself and the trailer we posted is genuine. However, a Project Needlemouse site featuring Green Hill-esque artwork has been confirmed as false.

  15. Hopefully look as good as Trine by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

    Trine is a "2d" side-scroller, but makes beautiful use of pixel & vertex shaders, along with fun gameplay.

    I haven't remembered a SEGA game being fun in ages (aka Dreamcast days)

    1. Re:Hopefully look as good as Trine by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Not really trine is 3d but in 2d/3d look like Pandemonium was. Btw. as for Sega I really liked the Nintendo DS sonics and funnily I personally loved Sonic and the Secret Rings.

    2. Re:Hopefully look as good as Trine by hal2814 · · Score: 1

      If you don't remember SEGA being fun since the Dreamcast, then you need to pick up a Super Monkey Ball game.

    3. Re:Hopefully look as good as Trine by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Yes, I know Trine is 3D. That's why I but "2D" in quotes.

  16. I don't think this will work out by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

    I don't think this will work out exactly the best because you just know some higher up douche is going to pressure them into adding something complex, flashy, and "modern." It's like developers aren't allowed to make simple, awesome games anymore unless they're making them in flash online or something. They'll probably end up giving him a rail gun or letting him pull out a laptop and blog in the middle of a level or something idiotic like that. I want my damn simple sonic, damn it!

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
  17. Cycle or not by MistrX · · Score: 1

    Well if there is a sonic cycle or not, I still got my hopes up. Why? Because I am a positive person. Like it or not but they made good Sonic games. They were on Genesis but there were there. So they should be able to make a good Sonic game again. After 10 years of sucky Sonic games (with an exceptions of Sonic Adventure) they had enough time to think about it.

    When it's released, I'll look for reviews and screens, and if it's released for the PC, I'll probably buy it.

  18. Sonic 2d by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

    There has been a load of 2d sonics, but they were only released on the handheld consoles, needless to say they were quite good.

    1. Re:Sonic 2d by Oblong_Cheese · · Score: 1

      'Sonic Rush' and its followup on Nintendo DS are some of the best Sonic titles available. I would say they easily rival the classics from Sega's heydey. Most reviews had high praise for the games speed, non-linearity and relatively small number of extra (but useless) side characters.

    2. Re:Sonic 2d by Oblong_Cheese · · Score: 1

      I should say, high speed and relative non-linearity of the level design.

    3. Re:Sonic 2d by Rhaban · · Score: 1

      I tried Sonic Rush Adventure on the DS. Took me 10 minutes of dialogs and stupid stuff before I could play a platforms level.

      I never touched that game again. I usually play on my DS for short sessions, and if I want to play a sonic game I want a fast platform game. I don't care about a storyline that's as dumb as the worst teletubbies episodes.

    4. Re:Sonic 2d by Iceykitsune · · Score: 1

      I tried Sonic Rush Adventure on the DS.

      Well, theres you're problem!

      --
      GENERATION 24: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
    5. Re:Sonic 2d by BenoitRen · · Score: 1

      Actually, the three Sonic Advance games weren't that good. They had poor level design. Sonic Rush was a step up with the tricks system, better level design, and great music, but it's still not the same thing as the original series. Everything is still about going fast. The original series was about good level design with platforming, and momentum. Not constant speed.

  19. Obviously this time will be different ! by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Hey if Barack Obama can claim this, so can I !

  20. Ah, Retrogaming... by Sabz5150 · · Score: 1

    The Coca-Cola Classic of video games. When you've got a great formula, don't go changing it.

    --
    "Who modded this informative? Whoever it is must've been smokin' some of that martian pot!"
  21. The Adventure Curse. by Deathlizard · · Score: 1

    I doubt it.

    One of the interesting factors I've found with Sonic is any time Sega uses the word "Adventure" in any sonic game, the quality goes towards the crapper.

    For example, Sonic Rush was pretty good. although it added another friend, but Sonic Rush Adventure was a useless grindfest that made you play stages over and over and over. nowhere near the first Rush.

    Also in original games, the word Adventure is almost never found. It's nowhere on Sonic 1 or 2 either on the box art of the manuals. It's on Sonic CD's box art but thats probably why the boss battles were so easy, and it's on Sonic 3's book and Sonic and Knuckes's book and box art, but they both sucked on their own unless you locked on (more like Glued on when it came to my copy) Sonic 3 and S&K.

    Considering that the first trailer for this 2D game already says adventure in it, I'm not keeping my hopes up.

    1. Re:The Adventure Curse. by BenoitRen · · Score: 1

      If you think Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles sucked, there is no hope for you. Maybe you're arguing that they should only be viewed together, but that doesn't make the individual games suck.

  22. Re:Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    Hmm. I would love to meet a cute black girl named Ivory. It would be ironic, and amusing.

  23. Sonic games = not fun? by ptcheezer · · Score: 0, Troll

    Am I the only one who doesn't get the appeal of the Sonic games? Especially the 2D ones? It all starts out well enough, but you get moving so fast there is no way to react to what's coming up next. Sure, I could grind through a level and lose rings until I remember where everything is. Now it's like a memorization chore. Sonic was supposed to be Sega's answer to Mario, so they thought they'd have to show off how the Genesis could scroll things at a million miles per hour -what fun! Wow, it dazzles me! FAIL. FAIL. FAIL.

  24. Parent NSFW by Lemming+Mark · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Just so you know, it's very unlikely the parent is safe viewing for your particular workplace ;-)

  25. ._. by Spewns · · Score: 1

    What kind of crappy trailer was that? Text on a website would've sufficed. I mean, if you got nothin' to show...

    Also, apparently I have the complete opposite reaction than a lot of you. The 2D Sonic games are really boring and dated, yet the original Sonic Adventure for Dreamcast was by far one of the best games of its time. Seeing as it's the only 3D Sonic game I've played though, I can't really vouche for anything further.

    1. Re:._. by ElleyKitten · · Score: 1

      I'm with you. Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 I really loved, and I didn't play the original sonics in the 80s so I don't have the nostalgia that everyone else has. But the 3d sonics after adventure 2 are horrible full of fail. I tried heroes, and it was painfully lame. Then sonic was a werewolf. then sonic got a sword. wtf?

      I don't have a lot of hope for this. But the sonic advances and rushes for handhelds were pretty cool. so maybe.

      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
  26. Sonic Rush by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

    We'll see if it is actually faithful to the original Sonic or if it ends up being more like the crap, Sonic Rush on the DS. Excluding the frustrating boss fights, the game was completely 2D. The sense of speed was present, but the stages were poorly designed with all sorts of traps, obstacles and falls to constantly trip up a player. The game was constant trial and error trying to figure how to get past sections. But even worse, pacing was awful. The game encouraged, even required high speeds but then would throw obstacles in your way that would disrupt movement and usually kill you. The rest of the game wasn't much better; having to replay stages and the embarrassingly bad story in particular. The game got better ratings that it deserved, I think mainly because people were turned on by more traditional gameplay and every other Sonic game excluding the originals was so atrocious.

    It could be argued that Sonic, the original, didn't quite have the personality and charm of the Super Mario Bros series. It could also be argued that it didn't quite have the depth of those games. But for what it did it was great. The sense of speed could be exhilarating; there haven't been many platform games with that sense of speed. And every stage was well designed, with the appropriate pace for each stage established right at the start.

    While I'd like Sega to hark back to the original as much as possible, I also want to see some level of evolution. Unfortunately, given Sega's history with the Sonic series I don't expect anything good outside of them just remaking the original.

    1. Re:Sonic Rush by BenoitRen · · Score: 1

      I think you're being a bit too harsh on the game. The tricks system is there exactly to get you through the obstacles unharmed and maintain your speed. As for the level design, it's not that bad. Try the Sonic Advance games to see what bad looks like. Too many large bottomless pits.

  27. No Love for Sonic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will get this out of the way now, I am a Sega fanboy. I have been since the Genesis, and will continue to be until I die.

    Sonic Adventure is hailed as the 3d sonic game of all sonic games. It is a good game, but Sonic Adventure 2 is above and beyond SA1. I mean, come on. Big the Cat was thrown in faster than the Werehog levels were thrown in, but everybody seems to dumb down that fact.

    Also, a few people said that there was no sight of Super Sonic in the 3D games. What game are you playing where he doesn't show up? The only 3D sonic game I have not played through to completion has been Sonic Heroes, and so far, Super Sonic is in every single one. Learn to play and beat the game before you utter out false information. In order to use Super sonic, you have to beat everything else in the game. For SA1, you have to go through and complete every single storyline, and then a new one will open up that will be Super Sonic where you face off against the boss one final time. I hope you remember the cut scene from the beginning of the game (you know, before you hit start) where the city gets buries in water, but for some odd reason, that scene never surfaces again after you beat the game. Wrong. That is the beginning cutscene of the Super Sonic level.

    Also, even though the Werehog stages were added in to lengthen the game and slow down the pace as has been confirmed (google is your friend, do a search and find out for yourself), the stages are fun. There are lots of offshoot stories that are played in games that are harked as awesome (come on, Mario with a water gun and you are complaining about the Werehog?!? OMGWFTBBQ). Some people will say, "It is a dumbed down God of War clone". Unfortunate for those people, God of War is only a beefed up clone of other beat em ups. One of the most notable 3D beat em ups, which was also one of the very first ones, is Die Hard Arcade. Die Hard Arcade was also known as Dynamite Deka in Japan for the gaming buffs out there (which should be all of the people trying to go back to the 10 years since a good Sonic game). Dynamite Deka was a 3D beat em up with boss battles and action event button press cut scenes. So, really, for 3D beat em ups, Sega is very well known their 3D beat em ups and has been fine tuning them for a very long time, so adding this in was no big deal for Sega. The Werehog stages were actually very fun to play. You could do it streets of rage style and just pound on 1 button the entire time, or you could throw out some complexity and pull off some combos. It paid homage to the games of old that Sega is well known for.

    Also, the people claiming that after the Genesis there were no good sonic games. and then you will add (except for sonic adventure). You are skipping alot of good games. Not every single game has to be a fast paced 2D platformer. If that is the case, write off all new CastleVania games, Zelda games, Mario Games, Metroid games, shall I continue to list them? Games that were known for stellar 2D gameplay transitioned to 3D and while many of the games were not all that great (CastleVania 64, Super Mario Sunshine, etc) they were still held up high. Sonic was not held up high because of your already biased opinion of the company itself. You already had it in for Sega.

    Seriously. Why does Sonic need to be 2D? Sonic 2 for Genesis is not the best Sonic game out there. Obviously you know little to nothing about good Sonic games when you spout off that nonsense. Play some games and then come back to talk Sonic. Sonic CD was by far better than Sonic 2. It was also a 2D fast paced platformer as well. What? You didn't play it, but claim you know about Sonic and which game was better. Wow. FAIL.

    I also see that nobody is mentioning Sonic Heroes. Why? Sonic Heroes was released on PS2, XBox, GameCube, and PC. With it released on all of those consoles, you had to have heard of it, but you strangely left it off. Sonic Heroes was also a very good game as well. They got rid of Big the Cat and stuck with a

  28. face it those old games wern't that great by johncandale · · Score: 1

    Face it, those old games weren't that great. Take of your nostalgia glasses and realize they were ok for being on a a system that came out 19 years ago. When you were 10 years old they seemed pretty ok. You have to realize a entire game consisting of holding down the right directional pad for an hour to win is hardly the stuff of the ages.

    1. Re:face it those old games wern't that great by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      You're obviously entitled to your opinion. While I definitely am of the retrogaming mindset, I personally didn't own a Genesis and never played the original games at the time. I did get the Sonic Mega Collection for the PS2 (a system I only got a few years ago), and enjoy them a lot.

      Basically, you could argue that it's nostalgia for that *type* of game, but there are people playing the game now that weren't players of the game series originally.
      (I never had a NES either, and played Super Mario Bros for a while on someone's Wii system, though I have played it sporadically over the years on other people's NESes or other systems.)

    2. Re:face it those old games wern't that great by PenisLands · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? Honestly, if you're talking about a game that consists of holding the direction button down, try Sonic Adventure or the other 3D sonic games, where you do nothing watch Sonic run through scripted loops and somersault scenes (where you'll fall to your death if you do anything other than hold the analogue stick forward).

      The original three Sonic games are much more interesting and challenging than anything than anything that Sonic Team has put out since the 90s.

  29. Good times. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Holy awesome. This just made my day. 2D sonic 3

  30. Bleh by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    For some reason when I opened the link and the trailer started loading up, I started feeling sick to my stomach and just closed that tab. I'll just wait to see it when it comes out. I don't want this to be drawn out any longer than it has to. Yes, it does sound too good to be true. I just don't have any strength left to hold out hope for another good Sonic game. Please make it as good as Sonic CD.

  31. sonic1991 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think sega can mess this up because, hello their working hard as hell to f'ing make us games 2 enjoy through the future. Yeah i under stand that sega should make a game going back 2 his roots and you know i can't wait to see what it looks like.