Slashdot Mirror
A Tour of Taser HQ
Soychemist writes "Walk into the Taser headquarters in Scottsdale, Arizona and it may seem like you are on an episode of Get Smart. The foyer is like a fortress, with giant steel doors and biometric identification systems. Inside, factory workers meticulously assemble the less-lethal weapons by hand and then put them through a battery of safety tests. In addition to making pistol-shaped devices, the company also produces the electronic equivalent of a claymore mine, which hurls dozens of electrified needles at the push of a button and electronic shotgun cartridges that deliver a powerful jolt."
Cool story, but is it really necessary for people to /. everything Wired does? Aren't most /. readers also Wired readers?
Tasers going through "a battery of test"... Props for stunning punning.
Just like a club is less lethal than a sword... but it still does 1d6.
Also "the electronic equivalent of a claymore mine, which hurls dozens of electrified needles": W.T.F.
What exactly is the intended non-lethal purpose of such a thing?
The front entrance is very impressive. But it's security theater. Google StreetView shows the entrance to the loading dock, where the gate has been left open.
The term electronic police state describes a state in which the government aggressively uses electronic technologies to record, organize, search and taze its citizens.
If you treat me like an animal don't be surprised when i bite you in the face.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
"And to your left - if everyone will put on their goggles, please - you'll see our product tester of the month, Jorge. Let's all give Jorge a hand!"
"Stand back a little there, ma'am. Thank you."
Were your first words, "Don't tase me, bro!"
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
The foyer is like a fortress, with giant steel doors and biometric identification systems...
Security like that for a business like theirs is just for show. It's there for all the "foreign dignitaries" with their big pocket books. Which makes me think of other elements of their corporate identity. These people market "non-lethal" weapons and then cover up the research that says that blasting tens of thousand of volts through the human nervous system might just have some negative effects. Not that there isn't a ton of historical evidence saying that when you science and law enforcement meet, a conspiracy usually results. Taser's products are not "non-lethal", they are "less lethal"... But the police and people who buy their equipment love to watch people scream and fall over because they smarted off to them, and for this, Taser Corporation delivers. And although their products could easily be designed to be more humanitarian, curiously these changes never make it to market.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I am not a Wired reader.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Taser are NOT "non-lethal."
They have killed many times. Amnesty International says 351 people have been killed by tasers in police hands. Although they are marketed as non-lethal and safe, they are most definitely not.
Information on taser deaths:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-rights/taser-abuse/page.do?id=1021202
http://www.justicenewsflash.com/2009/08/31/dallas-wrongful-death-lawyer_200908312018.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/05/14/crimesider/entry5013690.shtml
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0730taser30.html
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jun2009/tasr-j19.shtml
http://www.startribune.com/13841301.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126936.100-taser-guns-raised-deaths-in-custody.html
http://www.taserdeaths.org/
Their marketing is part of the problem. Because they are seen as "safe," officers are more likely to use them in situations where it is unnecessary. There are many viral videos where the police officer goes directly to the taser as soon as the person asks a question or protests in any way. (I would post them, but youtube is inaccessible from my work.) They are more likely to escalate a situation and use force because they believe the taser to be safe. For example, there was one incident a woman was tased in front of her kids after protesting an unjustified traffic ticket. The officer in question was about a foot taller and outweighed her by around 100 lbs, yet felt threated enough that using a weapon was justified even though the woman made no aggressive movement against him at all. Thankfully she didn't die, the ticket was dismissed and she is currently in the process of filing a lawsuit. (http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/mom_in_minivan_tasered_in_traf.html)
I knew a correctional officer who frequently used stun guns on rowdy inmates. They called it "The funky Chicken" because of the inmates' jerks and spasms which were often so severe that they would shit and piss on themselves.
Stun guns != tasers, but keep that in mind the next time you mess with authority.
I know this is offtopic (somewhat) so I won't mind if it's moderated out of usefulness, but I'll get on my soapbox at this point.
A taser should only ever be used as an alternative to shooting somebody. If you wouldn't shoot them in the same situation, you shouldn't taser them.
Resisting arrest alone should not mean tasering is on the table, even with a difficult struggle. Law enforcement is getting way to used to tasering simply to avoid any kind of physical confrontation.
If tasers didn't have the lethality question hanging over them I would think differently, but according to Amnesty International, at least, 334 people died after taser shocks between 2001 and 2008.
If its so non-lethal how come I always hear on the news about someone dying in relation to a taser being used on them? Hell, anyone can die from something, am I the only one who saw the tea cup scene in "Chronicles of Riddick"?
I understand the less lethal part, but doesn't anyone see the inherent danger of hurling electrified needles into the air. It could poke your eye out then send a electric charge right to the head. Into your mouth if your screaming or yelling. The jugular vein is basically unprotected and a unlucky shot there could puncture it. On another note, wonder if their testing includes a person wearing different types of clothing for like summer and winter. Also if the voltage needed to subdue someone fluctuates greatly between people of different weights.
actually that bothers me really really alot. but not the linux thing
electronic equivalent of a claymore mine, which hurls dozens of electrified needles at the push of a button
"i lost my dignity on a slippery wiener"
Who is Brittany Spears? Is she a Britney Spears knock off like when you saw HK actors would call themselves things like Bruce Li to cash in Bruce Lee's name?
Sorry for the double post but I was just going through the photos FTFA. Anyone else notice that the entrance in the foyer is all metallic and the roof is baffled. Also what looks like a giant exhaust fan in the center. I wonder --- if you get the passcode wrong, do you get tazed?
Photo here
"i lost my dignity on a slippery wiener"
How dare they manufacture a product that could harm people! They should change their company and make harmless, useful equipment like baseball bats, kitchen knives, and tire irons.
No good deed goes unpunished. - Avon, Blake's 7
This foyer may look like the entrance to the Control headquarters from an episode of Get Smart, but this is the front door of the Taser plant. The corporation has plenty of reasons for high security. It recently launched an online warehouse for digital evidence, so keeping trespassers out is a top priority.
Looking at the image, my impression is that this is more about appearances than real security. It's all about looking high-tech and security oriented.
Have you considered that the metric that site uses (a javascript based plugin on websites that is blocked by adblock) Might be biased against educated users?
Most of these systems use similar metrics, javascript/advertisement monitoring/malware.
From experience, most of these things don't work correctly in alternate browsers or are outright removed by users with a clue.
Over-reactive police and prison guards kill people. Personally I would rather be shot, but that's just me.
Yeah, because so many people use their linux servers for web browsing.
"Pain compliance"? In other words, torture.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
I'd say you're a sucker for numbers. W3Counter's stats for August:
Aug iPhone OSX 0.40%
Aug Linux 1.97%
Aug Mac OS X 7.11%
Aug WAP 0.07%
Aug Windows 2000 0.78%
Aug Windows 2003 0.65%
Aug Windows 7 1.69%
Aug Windows 98 0.13%
Aug Windows Vista 22.64%
Aug Windows XP 60.55%
Linux is falling over the past few months but nowhere as much as WinXP has. The big winners? Vista and Win7. I guess you CAN force people to "upgrade" after all (I know one of my Win2K systems had to suck up a XP licence with it's new motherboard due to lack of drivers).
Meanwhile, W3Counter thinks my browser is on a WinXP system despite the Linux desktop which continues to work great despite the rise and fall of the Windows user base. That must really eat at you Microsoft fanbois so I'll expect more clueless trolling.
Plus they can show off all their thank you letters from the governments of Burma, Iran, North Korea, China...
Taser test victim that survives - "Missed me by that much"
Look at how death numbers increased after 2002. I remember tasers being used in the 80's, therefore there must be something different in the way they are used. Or maybe most new trigger happy cops are recruited among Iraq vets with some serious issues in their head.
From the Weaseljumper series:
I followed Jae and No-man through the silent corridors of the Penitentiary. The cells were all empty and the doors stood open. The autocams pivoted to aim at us as we passed by. Their plasma dart canisters, which I assumed were empty, hung menacingly from them. I knew what those things could do: they were designed for mob suppression, on the really, really good theory that a quick way to command the attention and respect of a band of Penitentiary inmates driven to insane rage by the monotony of four gray walls and constant subliminal suggestions of happy conformity would be to boil off the unlucky ones in the front row, leaving the rest of the group retching on the nauseating vapors. The plasma dart was a favorite weaseler toy. One had only to be careful not to use it on a weasel, for those fumes would corrode your lungs and your chest would cave in and you would have to be disposed of as toxic waste.
My short sword does 1d6, you insensitive clod!
Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
"Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
It looks like they're using antistatic mats on their quality control stations. I would have thought they'd want to limit the conductive surfaces, given the voltages they're using.
I've always wondered if wearing a tin foil suit would be sufficient to conduct the charge from a taser though it instead of me. If so, that would go great with my tin foil hat!
Tasers cause brain damage.
Cool. Does it say "Front toward Assailant" on it? Those with Army or Marine Corps service will know what I'm talking about.
These conversations always boil down to: "It's non/less-lethal! Better than getting shot!" But what happened before Tasers? Cops were allowed to draw their weapons to evoke fear (and compliance through fear) and discharge in desperate circumstances. Guns aside, what options were there? Sticks/Clubs and fists. Let's focus on "fists".
Fists, like Tasers, can provide non-lethal or less-lethal forms of force that guarantee compliance. But we agreed that Cops shouldn't do that, right? At least, not unless it's amid a desperate circumstance. So how is it different? Well, to be honest, fists often leave visible marks and those visible marks can be used to show evidence of brutality. It's similar stopping force... it causes severe pain. So what else is different? Range.
A common police officer mentality (from my own experience working at a station) is, "I don't care what happens... I plan on coming home tonight." This philosophy exemplifies the concept that the officer wants to stay as far away from danger as possible to prevent harm to him/herself. So, they have no problem adopting a manner of compliance enforcement that is as effective as a fist, prevents visible evidence of brutality, and keeps the officer at a safe distance.
But it is *still invoking severe pain (torturous pain) to force compliance*. *It is still brutal*. And it should only be used as an alternative to *discharging* a firearm, not a short cut away from all self-risk, and especially as a short cut from expending time in any case. The pain of any individual is not out-valued by the time of an officer of the law.
A taser is used when it is inappropriate for an officer to come into the radius of contact with an individual that is not compliant. Do you really want the officers to put themselves into arms length of some tweaker on a binge who's violent. The Taser keeps them from getting their hands on an officer and really fucking them up, getting their firearm, killing them, then going on a rampage. I know it's a worst case scenario but it's possible.
The Taser is just one more step in between beating on someone with a baton and shooting them with your duty weapon in the force continuum. All the deaths that have occurred have happened when the individual who has died was on some sort of illegal substance that fucks with your heart and CNS. Without the Taser you'd have so many more reports of "officer beat's down suspect", "officer kills junkie", "officers beats drunk on his way to church", "crazed man kills cop and goes on rampage downtown", etc. etc.
Don't forget also that every officer that carries a Taser has been tased. They know what the effects are on a healthy human. Same goes for the pepper spray that they carry.
"Man who beat his girlfriend with a flashlight charged with assault. Flashlight charged with battery."
334 deaths is irrelevant if you don't know the number of instances used.
I found one reference that claims the taser mortality rate is 1.4%, and the gun-mortality rate is 50%
Personally, I think that 1.4% is likely higher than truth or we'd hear more about taser deaths.
But even if it is, that's significantly better than firearms, no?
Finally, although I agree that more discretion should be used before tasering, I'm absolutely fine with our law enforcement using tasers (even with risk of death) if it lowers the risk of their personal harm. I'll back the rights of the guys who protect us over the guys who resist arrest any day.
(Obligatory acknowledgement that it's not an exact science, and yeah, while there are 'bad' cops, most are good.)
You stereotypers are all the same...
Also, you didn't represent all the numbers from the Amnesty article: "The stun gun was deemed to have caused or contributed to at least 50 of those deaths". So there is some ambiguity there.
You stereotypers are all the same...
Unfortunately, criminals have evolved.
In 1930s USA we had "beat cops" that would walk through neighborhoods in cities. Their very presence deterred crime. Should someone be as unwise as to steal an apple from a box outside a market, they would often be chased down and caught by the beat cop. At least that was the idea.
The beat cop did indeed have a tough life being on their feet for their entire shift and being only lightly armed, generally a club and a small revolver. Criminals of the day would often have more substantial weapons, but the Firearms act of 1934 attempted to change that making it a Federal offense to have an unlicensed machine gun. Things pretty much went back to the same level they had been at since the late 1800s or so.
Since that time, criminals have virtually cornered the market on firepower in the cities. Your average cop has a 9mm Berreta with a 15-round clip. The folks they are going up against have at a minimum guns like the Tec DC-9 with a 30 round clip and often operates in full automatic. The end result is of course that the police have no idea what they are going up against.
And you wonder why they might like to stay back from criminals?
The police informant networks have thoroughly penetrated Taser, Inc. (and most other large and mid-sized companies). Police informants take their first orders from the State, and do whatever their case officers ask them to, because if they don't they go to prison. Police informants are a lot more prevalent in the tech industry than you might think, because it is so easy to scare techies into turning informant ("become an informant or we send you to jail on this bullshit drug charge"). So, whenever the police, or someone with connections to the police, wants something from a company like Taser Inc., like the passcodes for an unactivated Taser, or an untraceable Taser, they just ask for it from an informant on the inside and get it, totally unaccountably.
There's also less control over the output from fists. In the heat of the moment, with adrenaline pumping, you might start swinging too hard, or swing too much. Do you have karate training? Those fists could really be lethal weapons.
Tasers give a precalculated amount of damage. There's less ambiguity over what a taser can do than what fists can do.
No one ever mentioned that the police officers themselves, before being able to carry one of these things, have to be shocked with it.
Is acoustic foam. It isn't a security measure, it is a noise one. A room like that with a hard floor and metal walls will have some bad echos. Some acoustic dampening on the ceiling helps a lot.
big metal deal. hackers dont care, and your most determined data hackers will see it as visual security only. biometrics are not hard to defeat, most companies wont check to make sure the DPI of the reader is sufficient to deter forgery. it tickles me to no end to see companies do this sort of thing.
breaking into a company that manufactures electric agonysticks however is probably a bad idea. most hackers know this too. expect a few random thumb drives to show up in the parking lot. one or two weeks later, those big metal doors will big metal do what ever i want them to while the voip server routes security's extension to the local chinese take out and im cloning the CEO's RFID carkey. okay, well, maybe not that insane...but still.
just because youre good in the physical security world, does not mean you'll be any good in the virtual security world.
Good people go to bed earlier.
But that comparison (1) a bit of an exageration in expectations and (2) implies that the use of Tasers would be on such criminals with Tec 9s. That's not really the case though, is it? In those situations when a cop suspects someone to be armed with any type of projectile weapon, the cop pulls out his gun and prepares for deadly force at a distance. That's understandable.
"The end result is of course that the police have no idea what they are going up against."
That's just wrong and it's the same excuse used over and over. "He could have had a knife." "He could have had a gun." Of course he could. We walk down the street every day with such "could have" dangers, but we do not react with force, do?
How would this go across in the court of law?: "The cop *could have* to beat the crap out of me to vent some steam, and I plan on going home tonight, I pulled a pencil from my bag and stabbed him in the throat."
It doesn't work, does it? Ignorance of variables or fear of potential circumstances is not a viable excuse for the unarmored, unarmed, under-insured (who pays the medical bills when you've been stunned and break your head on the cement from the fall?), so why in the world would we accept such rationalizations from the few people allowed to walk around in body armor, weapons, and physical combat training.
No. It does not escalate from talking to threat to Taser to gun. That's not acceptable.
Who cares, it is still the best for hosting my Tron fanzines.
And if every suspect, when faced with an impending arrest, simply lied down on the street peacefully and raised their arms behind them for the handcuffs we wouldn't need tasers or guns.
Ever hear of resisting arrest? Think the officer wants to know everything a suspect might have that the suspect can try resisting with?
I have no imperical evidence to back this up, but I would imagine the odds that the random person you pass on the street has a concealed weapon are likely magnitudes lower than the odds that a random suspect in the process of being arrested has a concealed weapon.
And if every suspect, when faced with an impending arrest, simply lied down on the street peacefully and raised their arms behind them for the handcuffs we wouldn't need tasers or guns.
But what does that have to do with my assertions?
I say that Tasers are used too frequently as short cuts to police work instead of alternatives to killing someone. If they were used properly, you would see nearly symmetrical inverse change in Taser usage versus gun usage. But you don't. Instead you see Taser usage growing increasingly frequent and higher and gun usage *sometimes changing* (going either up or down) depending on the city. That means that low-force situations are being escalated into debilitating-force situations by means of the Taser.
When you choose to use a Taser instead of a gun, it's non-lethal force and you're a hero.
When choose to use a Taser instead of patiently talking and rationalizing suspect to avoid pain and suffering, it's brutality and you're a dick that should be fired and disallowed from publicly-associated positions of power and/or authority.
The TASER sucks, but it sucks less than a bullet in the head. When used under the right circumstances, it prevents premature death and is a wonderful thing for that reason.
When used under the wrong circumstances, it's torture--simple as that.
I'd hate to work in the QA or testing department. Those zappers may not be legal -but I'm sure enough of them will take a toll on your health.
In Canada since the results of the royal commission on the death of Robert Dziekanski there is no doubt that these are dangerous weapons and their use should be restricted to a last resort weapon. Mr Dziekanski was tasered five times and the recommended usage is once or twice. As a result Mr Dziekanski died. Even today Taser is trying to dispute the results of the commission. I don't think they are going to get very far though.
I bet tasers and pacemakers mix well.
qz
When is it legal to use force against a police officer? How is a police officer threatening you with a weapon which has the capability of being lethal ok?
Check the news for Canada. Too many deaths from Tasers. Several deaths which caused police forced to return many many Tasers because the electrical energy from the high voltage surge killed innocent individuals.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
I agree that Tasering somebody because they didn't comply is plain bullshit. Makes no sense, instead of taking 2 more minutes to tell them to calm down and relax, instead of getting upset and tasering somebody for not following directions.
But if the officer suspects the person is about to pull something out that he didn't ask the person to take out, he should tase them. If the officer's life is in immediate danger and he suspects something immediate of happening, he has a limited time to react and a gun seems pretty safe to me. We don't want officers to die everyday, do we?
That being the factory floor observation room's windows are giant LCD shutters and the fact that all the secure area doors use retina scanners.
And just to comment on all the naive peaceniks posting, I quote the immortal words of Frost "What they hell are we supposed to use? Harsh language?"
Shouldn't that be Steve Buttle?